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Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 12:45 PM
Interesting read.

http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=W$WS0TxjZhOGna71gJCW_s$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYvddC2jpQpofzC TJrLBCO2YWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

http://triblive.com/sports/2195481-85/haley-steelers-coach-todd-former-parcells-camp-nfl-ben-didn

Summer is the perfect time for a good read, yet nobody seems to be getting one on new Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley.

A Bill Parcells protťgť known for adapting his play-calling to his personnel and being an innovative play caller, he is also a volatile sideline presence who inspires loyalty from some players but irritates others.

He is certainly not Bruce Arians, who was not-so-gently shoved out the door in January despite quarterback Ben Roethlisberger’s unwavering support. But, according to those who know Haley best, he also isn’t a control freak who implements change just to show he’s the boss.

While the Steelers generally shy away from coaches with colorful pasts, Haley has that and more, as evidenced by his well-publicized clashes with players and an abrupt departure as the Kansas City Chiefs’ coach last year in which he reportedly suspected team offices and his cell phone were bugged.

Now, Haley’s assimilation into the Steelers’ way of life is the latest Mystery of Pittsburgh, a shadowy yet intriguing riddle that will begin to be solved when the Steelers — coming off successive 12-4 seasons — open camp Wednesday in Latrobe. It figures to be a can’t-miss page turner.

“I’ve heard a lot of Todd stories — some good, some bad,” said former Steelers star guard Alan Faneca, who played in Arizona after Haley was the offensive coordinator there. “He’s definitely a hard worker and demands a lot. He can be very excitable during practice. But sometimes change is good, to get people out of their comfort zone.”

That’s already happened with Roethlisberger, who thrived in a Ben-friendly Arians offense that permitted him to improvise at will. Upon first glance at Haley’s playbook, Roethlisberger jokingly called it a Rosetta Stone course in a brand new language.

“That (change) has a way of keeping guys on their toes and keeping their focus, understanding what their goal is, and that’s to win Super Bowls,” Haley said during minicamp last month. “Win one this year — that’s our goal.”

Haley, 45, is the first outsider in 13 years to run the offense. But he’s no stranger to Pittsburgh or the Steelers; as a youngster in Upper St. Clair, he broke down game film with father Dick Haley, the former Steelers personnel chief who played a major role in some of the best drafts in NFL history in the 1970s.

FOOTBALL NOT FIRST LOVE

Todd Haley’s story isn’t the sit-on-dad’s-knee-and-become-a-football genius tale of Patriots coach Bill Belichick. In his teens, Haley shifted his emphasis to golf, playing in high school and at Florida and Miami in college.

The PGA, not the NFL, appeared to be his calling.

“But there never was a time he wasn’t into football,” said Dick Haley, who at 75 remains plugged into the NFL. “Because of some back problems, he got diverted into golf, but he always wanted to know about the players, about football. How many kids wouldn’t want to after rooming next to Joe Greene at training camp?”

The elder Haley left the Steelers to become the Jets’ personnel director in 1991 and, four years later, Todd was hired in the scouting department. Within two years, he was on Parcells’ coaching staff.

“Todd is bright, demanding, persistent, and he came along pretty well,” Parcells said.

Parcells didn’t care Haley hadn’t played football.

“I know guys who didn’t play and did very well in coaching, and others who played that don’t have a clue what to do,” Parcells, a two-time Super Bowl-winning coach, said.

Haley was promoted to wide receivers coach in 1999 before switching to the Bears in 2001, only to rejoin Parcells in Dallas in 2004.

Haley’s profile rose with his next job as the Arizona Cardinals’ offensive coordinator from 2007-08. With quarterback Kurt Warner headlining an imaginative offense highlighted by former Pitt receiver Larry Fitzgerald’s big plays, the Cardinals were second in passing and third in scoring in 2008. They went 9-7 during the season, but scored at least 30 points during three consecutive playoff wins and rallied from a 13-point deficit to nearly upset the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

That deep throw to Fitz-gerald that nearly sent the Steelers home a loser from Tampa? Haley’s play call.

Haley was subsequently hired as the Chiefs coach by general manager Scott Pioli, the former Patriots executive who worked for the Jets when Haley did. But while Haley went from 4-12 in his first season in 2009 to 10-6 in 2010, finishing third in the coach of the year voting, he was fired with his injury-ruined team reeling with a 5-8 record on Dec. 12.

STORMY DAYS IN K.C.

Haley is derecho-like — always going straight ahead, in full-go mode, and in Kansas City, storm clouds often loomed on the horizon.

Chan Gailey, retained from Herm Edwards’ staff to be the offensive coordinator, didn’t make it through training camp. Larry Johnson, the two-time former 1,700-yard rusher, questioned Haley’s coaching credentials in a Twitter message and was cut in 2009. And tight end Tony Moeaki was lost to a season-ending knee injury in the final 2011 exhibition game, when many NFL regulars rest.

“The quarterback (Matt Cassel) was real average. … It didn’t surprise me what happened in Kansas City. I didn’t have any real confidence in the whole thing,” Dick Haley said.

After Todd Haley departed, the Kansas City Star published a devastating article in which a number of former team employees revealed what they called an intimidating, secretive and stifling work environment. According to the Star, Haley himself suspected bugging at the practice complex.

“I don’t know what happened in Kansas City. I don’t think it’s relevant in Pittsburgh,” Parcells said. “But he probably learned a lot there.”

TUTORING BIG BEN

Given Haley’s sideline spats with Warner, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens and Cassel, his relationship with Roethlisberger should prove intriguing. Haley once said, “If you’re sensitive, (the NFL) is not the best place to be.”

“You accept people for what they are and get past the sensitivity level, if there is any,” Parcells said. “Both guys are smart enough to say, ‘Hey, we’ve got to make it work.’ ”

Torry Holt, a NFL Network analyst and former Rams star receiver, can’t wait to see how this plays out.

“Coach Haley has a strong personality. Ben has a strong personality. I’m sure Todd wants him to hone in on this or hone in on that, and Ben will try,” Holt said. “But out there on the football field, your instincts kick in and your competitive nature kicks in, and you kind of resort back to what you’ve always done.”

Haley’s take on Roethlisberger? “He’s a guy that’s been a really good player, and we’re going to try to keep that going and get even better,” he said.

Haley believes an offense must be physical, smart and disciplined, and his system resembles that of his former boss, Arizona coach Ken Whisenhunt, a Steelers assistant from 2001-06.

“Todd Haley represents the best of both worlds,” NFL Network analyst Jamie Dukes said. “With Kurt Warner, he threw it 45 times a game and didn’t blink. In Kansas City, he ran it 45 times a game. He’s got those three young wide receivers there in Pittsburgh, and Ben knows how to put the ball in the air. Todd will make the adjustments, and rather quickly.”

While Haley is an assistant again after being a head coach, his father insists he has never been happier now that he’s back home in Pittsburgh with his wife Chrissy and five children.

“He’s loving every second of this,” the elder Haley said. “He couldn’t be more excited.”

Dad Haley also realizes there is intense pressure to succeed as a high-profile coach in your hometown, even if former head coach Bill Cowher made it work.

“I don’t question he’ll do well. (But) there’s a lot of pressure to live up to what’s gone on there for a long time,” Dick Haley said. “And he’d better be good because there’s a lot of pressure on him right now.”

milkman
07-22-2012, 12:55 PM
Dick Haley has a higher opinion of Cassel than I do.

Dave Lane
07-22-2012, 12:56 PM
Good for Haley. Pittsburgh is a contender to go to the superbowl. We are not.

Dave Lane
07-22-2012, 12:57 PM
Dick Haley has a higher opinion of Cassel than I do.

Yes average, when describing Cassel is politically correct.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 12:57 PM
I bet Haley doesn't sleep the week we play Pitt.

He has an extra day to prepare for us, too...and it's a 2nd straight road game for us.

Dave Lane
07-22-2012, 12:58 PM
I bet Haley doesn't sleep the week we play Pitt.

They are going to beast fuck us.

BossChief
07-22-2012, 01:00 PM
I'll always think the guy would have had us In the superbowl if he had a quarterback.

His dad probably agrees with that.

-King-
07-22-2012, 01:01 PM
Ben will rape Haley by week 2. Im not worried.
Posted via Mobile Device

BossChief
07-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Sure will be interesting to see Haley and Romeo face off on different sides of the field.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Who?

jd1020
07-22-2012, 01:08 PM
"Chiefs" thread. :hmmm:

Munson
07-22-2012, 01:09 PM
We're gonna lose to Pittsburgh by 5 td's, and Cassel will be sacked 12 times. Its gonna be ugly.

BossChief
07-22-2012, 01:11 PM
We almost beat Pittsburgh with tyler Palko at qb for us.

Think about that for a second.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 01:12 PM
Pittsburgh barely beat us last year with idiot Haley and Palko.

Planetman
07-22-2012, 01:14 PM
We're 9-17 (I think) vs the Steelers.

Ugly.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 01:14 PM
We're gonna lose to Pittsburgh by 5 td's, and Cassel will be sacked 12 times. Its gonna be ugly.

Really?

Explain how this happens.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 01:15 PM
i wish i could be the fly on the wall for the behind the doors debates on Cassel between Haley, Pioli, Clark, whoever.

So clear the Haleys knew he sucked just like the fans do. Big Ben is certainly an upgrade for Todd to work with.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 01:19 PM
They raped us the last time we were in Pitt.

That Steelers team was much, much better.

2-2 vs them since 2003.

Buehler445
07-22-2012, 01:21 PM
Really?

Explain how this happens.

Cassel holds the ball too long, shits his pants, and gets crushed on 12 different plays.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 01:22 PM
I still think Todd played Palko as much as he did because he knew he was gone and it was a parting shot to Scott.

BossChief
07-22-2012, 01:26 PM
I still think Todd played Palko as much as he did because he knew he was gone and it was a parting shot to Scott.

Suck for luck!!! /outside the box thinking

Kidd Lex
07-22-2012, 01:28 PM
ďI donít know what happened in Kansas City. I donít think itís relevant in Pittsburgh,Ē Parcells said. ďBut he probably learned a lot there.Ē

Nice dig by the Tuna.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 01:29 PM
It would be awesome if Parcells hates his son-in-law.

Red Dawg
07-22-2012, 01:29 PM
Good for Haley. Pittsburgh is a contender to go to the superbowl. We are not.

Good for Haley? Fugg him! He let Tyler cost the division He will fugg up Pitt's offense, count it.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 01:29 PM
He looks so much happier in Pittsburgh, though.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 01:53 PM
He looks so much happier in Pittsburgh, though.

No Cassel.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 01:55 PM
Those who hate Todd can thank JC for blowing his ACL.

Without that, the Chiefs win the division and Todd is still HC.

Bugeater
07-22-2012, 02:06 PM
We almost beat Pittsburgh with tyler Palko at qb for us.

Think about that for a second.
Haley started Palko at QB. Think about that for a second.

Fuck that guy.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-22-2012, 02:10 PM
Players make coaches look a lot better than they are. If we had a franchise QB who knows what would've happened. All I know is he'd still be the head coach. Game managers are coach killers.

BoneKrusher
07-22-2012, 02:11 PM
ďThe quarterback (Matt Cassel) was real average. Ö It didnít surprise me what happened in Kansas City. I didnít have any real confidence in the whole thing,Ē Dick Haley said.

this confirms it, Haley is a Dick.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 02:15 PM
Players make coaches look a lot better than they are. If we had a franchise QB who knows what would've happened. All I know is he'd still be the head coach. Game managers are coach killers.

that's how all these shit coaches and execs from the Patriots can keep circling the NFL wagons and getting jobs thanks to their ties to Tom Brady. I.e. the Chiefs current coaching and FO situation, amongst many other teams that painfully had to go through it (Donks, Browns, Jets, etc)

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 02:16 PM
Haley started Palko at QB. Think about that for a second.

Fuck that guy.

I wish he had went with Stanzi, but he did what any HC would do after their starter goes down.

The mistake was starting Palko in Chicago.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 02:23 PM
Todd Haley was a dumbass who didn't look prepared half the time. His teams challenged Herms teams for the biggest blowouts. Think about that for a second.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 02:25 PM
Todd Haley was a dumbass who didn't look prepared half the time. His teams challenged Herms teams for the biggest blowouts. Think about that for a second.

Matt Cassel

Ace Gunner
07-22-2012, 02:28 PM
ďThe quarterback (Matt Cassel) was real average. Ö It didnít surprise me what happened in Kansas City. I didnít have any real confidence in the whole thing,Ē Dick Haley said.

this confirms it, Haley is a Dick.
a 6'3" Dick:D

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 02:29 PM
Matt Cassel

No.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 02:31 PM
No.

So Cassel had nothing to do with the failures of this team the past 3 seasons?

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 02:35 PM
So Cassel had nothing to do with the failures of this team the past 3 seasons?

Matt Cassel is part of the problem but he wasn't the whole problem. Todd Haley was a shitty coach.

It wasn't Matt Cassel who went for it on 4th down on his own 28 in a close game vs Denver.

It wasn't just Matt Cassel who look unprepared all of the 2011 pre-season and the first 2 regular season games.


BTW Herm had some really shitty QB's and not nearly as much talent as Haley and I don't recall his teams getting blown out as frequently as Haley's teams.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-22-2012, 02:39 PM
that's how all these shit coaches and execs from the Patriots can keep circling the NFL wagons and getting jobs thanks to their ties to Tom Brady. I.e. the Chiefs current coaching and FO situation, amongst many other teams that painfully had to go through it (Donks, Browns, Jets, etc)

I think there's such thing as good coaches. What's more important is talent evaluators like GMs, scouts and even coaches if they can have a hand in picking players. But that's the extent of it, IMO. Everyone knows football at that level. As Parcells said, football is not rocket science. The likes of Parcells and Belichick are good coaches because they were smart and got lucky in their selecting of players. I'm not saying a good coach can't make a player better, he can. By motivation and obvious teaching tactics, yes. But the player already has the abilities (while some being higher or lower than others, obviously), the coaches are just trying to develop, motivate and coordinate the talent which DOES play a part in the success of a team. Gotta get the most out of your investment. But in the end it's up to the player how far they go in their development, not the coach. Everyone has a choice in everything they do. I don't have to watch that film if I don't want. I don't have to spend extra time in the weight room if I don't want. If I want to keep my job yes, that should be enough motivation, but not everyone is motivated by the same thing. Freaking Brodie Croyle, according to reports, spent more time duck hunting than getting ready for the NFL season. Just an example but yeah. Playing professional sports is not a right.

JMO :)

Pasta Giant Meatball
07-22-2012, 02:39 PM
Yep, the blowouts at Arrowhead and the preperation for last season were just ridiculous. Face it, the guy was in over his head as an NFL Head Coach.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 02:39 PM
Haley had such crap talent the last 3 years. Come on.

this is the first year in the Chiefs in a long time to be excited about talent.

What talent was there the last three years? Mark Bradley? Sabby Piscitelli? Leonard Pope? Thomas Jones? Mike Brown? Chris Chambers? Jackie Battle? Jon McGraw? Mike Vrabel? Andy Studebaker? Demorrio Williams? Zach Thomas? Amani Toomer? The list goes on and on and on and on. Talent was AWFUL.

The broke dick Zach Thomas thing was a joke.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Matt Cassel is part of the problem but he wasn't the whole problem. Todd Haley was a shitty coach.

It wasn't Matt Cassel who went for it on 4th down on his own 28 in a close game vs Denver.

It wasn't just Matt Cassel who look unprepared all of the 2011 pre-season and the first 2 regular season games.


BTW Herm had some really shitty QB's and not nearly as much talent as Haley and I don't recall his teams getting blown out as frequently as Haley's teams.

I don't give a shit about Todd anymore, but without the injuries, they win 9 or 10 and the division. Haley would still be HC.

Teams with Elite QBs can overcome deficiencies in coaching.

See Indy.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 02:43 PM
Haley had such crap talent the last 3 years. Come on.

this is the first year in the Chiefs in a long time to be excited about talent.

What talent was there the last three years? Mark Bradley? Sabby Piscitelli? Leonard Pope? Thomas Jones? Mike Brown? Chris Chambers? Jackie Battle? Jon McGraw? Mike Vrabel? Andy Studebaker? Demorrio Williams? Zach Thomas? Amani Toomer? The list goes on and on and on and on. Talent was AWFUL.

The broke dick Zach Thomas thing was a joke.

Crap talent lol

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 02:44 PM
And why are the blow outs a big deal?

A lose is a loss.

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 02:44 PM
More love for a shit HC than I've ever seen before.

Haley was fucking terrible, and we obviously all know what we have in our QB; the two were a perfect storm of suck.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't give a shit about Todd anymore, but without the injuries, they win 9 or 10 and the division. Haley would still be HC.

Teams with Elite QBs can overcome deficiencies in coaching.

See Indy.

Would he still be the coach? There was talk that Pioli wanted to dump him last off season.

Regardless he was an awful gameday coach. I saw a Herm Edwards coached team in 2008 with a bunch of rookies almost beat the Patriots. Howcome Herm Edwards can have a team prepared to play but Haley can't? It says a lot about him as a head coach.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Bruce Arians was a lousy coordinator. Any knowledgeable Steelers fan will tell you that. Big Ben pretty much saved his job.

Haley's style of offense is tailor made for Pittsburgh. I can guarantee they are going to go back to smash mouth football. The Chiefs' offense would have been downright nasty in 2010 if we had a QB who could didn't shit his leg on every 3rd down.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 02:50 PM
More love for a shit HC than I've ever seen before.

Haley was fucking terrible, and we obviously all know what we have in our QB; the two were a perfect storm of suck.

What love?

gblowfish
07-22-2012, 02:52 PM
Haley will probably do fine as an AC. He was in way over his head as a HC. He micro-managed, was a dick to his staff, was paranoid and hard headed at the end, and, oh yeah, was a lying sack of shit on several occasions.

But he'll probably do fine as something other than the "head guy." Same thing as Gunther. Shit as a head coach, OK as a DC.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 02:53 PM
No Cassel.

It was a joke. He looks as pissed off as ever in that pic.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 02:53 PM
Haley will probably do fine as an AC.

He's a cool guy.

Pasta Giant Meatball
07-22-2012, 02:55 PM
Haley will probably do fine as an AC. He was in way over his head as a HC. He micro-managed, was a dick to his staff, was paranoid and hard headed at the end, and, oh yeah, was a lying sack of shit on several occasions.

But he'll probably do fine as something other than the "head guy." Same thing as Gunther. Shit as a head coach, OK as a DC.

Gun should have been canned following Detroit's playoff game last year.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 02:57 PM
And why are the blow outs a big deal?

A lose is a loss.

It's hard to get blown out in the NFL given the talent is so equal. It's not just the blowouts it's also the demeanor on the sideline. Haley's actions were embarrassing and not indicative of a leader at all.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:00 PM
I just find all the Haley butthurt funny.

If we had a legit QB who could chuck it down field, the O would have been very good

Since when did the HC matter more than the QB?

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 03:02 PM
Nobody is saying the HC is more important than the QB but we could have had Eli Manning and still lost those first 2 games last year because the team was that unprepared.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:03 PM
It's hard to get blown out in the NFL given the talent is so equal. It's not just the blowouts it's also the demeanor on the sideline. Haley's actions were embarrassing and not indicative of a leader at all.

Its not hard at all.

All you need is a lousy QB who cannot sustain drives and gives the ball away.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:05 PM
Nobody is saying the HC is more important than the QB but we could have had Eli Manning and still lost those first 2 games last year because the team was that unprepared.

Bull shit

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:05 PM
I dont get the whole argument defending Haley because he didn't have a top 5 QB in KC.

He was a terrible coach. The end. Having a terrible QB doesn't excuse the lack of preparedness of the entire team.

Haley's offense in a nutshell: Draw to McCluster.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 03:08 PM
Its not hard at all.

All you need is a lousy QB who cannot sustain drives and gives the ball away.

Yeah Herm had those and still didn't get blown out as much.

If I had a million dollars i'd be a millionaire. You arguing that Haley needs a great QB to cover up his flaws just proves the point Haley is a shitty coach.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:09 PM
I dont get the whole argument defending Haley because he didn't have a top 5 QB in KC.

He was a terrible coach. The end. Having a terrible QB doesn't excuse the lack of preparedness of the entire team.

Because the same people who screamed for 5 years that this team is worthless without a franchise QB are now the ones who say Haley is a lousy coach because he couldn't win without one.

I don't know if Haley was going to be a good coach or a great coach. I do know that he deserved better than a front office stubbornly clinging to a bad QB. And he deserved better than the petty micromanagement and head games that Pioli was pushing on him.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:10 PM
Because the same people who screamed for 5 years that this team is worthless without a franchise QB are now the ones who say Haley is a lousy coach because he couldn't win without one.

I don't know if Haley was going to be a good coach or a great coach. I do know that he deserved better than a front office stubbornly clinging to a bad QB. And he deserved better than the petty micromanagement and head games that Pioli was pushing on him.

I'd take Cassel over Palko but maybe thats just me.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:11 PM
I'd take Cassel over Palko but maybe thats just me.

And who's damn fault was that? Last time I checked, Pioli was the guy who had the power to bring somebody else in.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:12 PM
And who's damn fault was that? Last time I checked, Pioli was the guy who had the power to bring somebody else in.

Pretty sure Kyle Orton was on the team.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:14 PM
Pretty sure Kyle Orton was on the team.

Oh right, THAT bullshit argument.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:14 PM
Pretty sure Kyle Orton was on the team.

Yeah, he should have started in Chicago.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:14 PM
Oh right, THAT bullshit argument.

Do explain.

L.A. Chieffan
07-22-2012, 03:16 PM
Thank goodness Cassell is no longer hamstrung by this guy.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:17 PM
Yeah, he should have started in Chicago.

I would have started him against Pittsburgh or at least brought him in in the 2nd half. A half assed offense with Orton > a full playbook with Palko.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:18 PM
Do explain.

We're talking about one half of a game. Palko started over Orton. Haley made the QB switch in the second quarter. Orton dislocates a finger on the first play.

I'm not going to fault a guy because he doesn't want to put a guy with a serious injury on the field. And I'm not going to fault him if he didn't want to throw him into the fire a la Carson Palmer. I thought Orton should have started against Chicago. He didn't, but that's only one half of a game.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:19 PM
I would have started him against Pittsburgh or at least brought him in in the 2nd half. A half assed offense with Orton > a full playbook with Palko.

Orton had only been with the team for about 2 days. He was signed 4 days before and took personal leave after he was signed.

This isn't the argument you want to use.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:21 PM
Orton had only been with the team for about 2 days. He was signed 4 days before and took personal leave after he was signed.

This isn't the argument you want to use.

You love for Haley is too cute.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:22 PM
You love for Haley is too cute.

Dude, seriously?

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 03:23 PM
Because the same people who screamed for 5 years that this team is worthless without a franchise QB are now the ones who say Haley is a lousy coach because he couldn't win without one.

I don't know if Haley was going to be a good coach or a great coach. I do know that he deserved better than a front office stubbornly clinging to a bad QB. And he deserved better than the petty micromanagement and head games that Pioli was pushing on him.

No, I think Haley was horrendous b/c he was one of the worse game day coaches that I've seen in a long time. Completely and hopelessly lost on Sundays, and this quality and the suck of Cassel are mutually exclusive.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:23 PM
You love for Haley is too cute.

That's always the best.

When you know you're dead wrong, go back to the attacks.

Admit you were wrong.

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 03:24 PM
Orton had only been with the team for about 2 days. He was signed 4 days before and took personal leave after he was signed.

This isn't the argument you want to use.

Five set pass plays with Orton = exponentially better than anything involving Palko.

If you're remotely justifying Palko playing, your argument is laughably flawed. Hell, there's likely no way that Stanzi can be worse than Palko, and there was that option at the very least.

QB aside, Haley was and is a joke as a HC.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:28 PM
Sorry, you are never going to get me to admit that Palko gave us a better chance to win than Orton.

What would you have stood to lose by bringing in Orton? Oh that's right... nothing.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:29 PM
No, I think Haley was horrendous b/c he was one of the worse game day coaches that I've seen in a long time. Completely and hopelessly lost on Sundays, and this quality and the suck of Cassel are mutually exclusive.

Agree to disagree. If you think Haley was one of the worst, then you're in for a real treat with Romeo. Haley made a lot of dumb choices, but it seemed to me that he took a lot of big risks when he knew his team wasn't good enough to win without a little bit of luck. When the team was competitive, we didn't see nearly as many of those gaffes.

What's more important to me is that this was the most disciplined team we've seen in some time, and almost every player improved under his watch. Markedly. Haley made quite a few dumb mistakes, but I also know that he was crippled by horrendously micromanaged decisions that came from above him. Again, I don't know if he was a good or bad coach with better management up top. But one can't deny that those decisions didn't necessarily give him the fairest shot to prove it.

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 03:32 PM
Agree to disagree. If you think Haley was one of the worst, then you're in for a real treat with Romeo. Haley made a lot of dumb choices, but it seemed to me that he took a lot of big risks when he knew his team wasn't good enough to win without a little bit of luck. When the team was competitive, we didn't see nearly as many of those gaffes.

What's more important to me is that this was the most disciplined team we've seen in some time, and almost every player improved under his watch. Markedly. Haley made quite a few dumb mistakes, but I also know that he was crippled by horrendously micromanaged decisions that came from above him. Again, I don't know if he was a good or bad coach with better management up top. But one can't deny that those decisions didn't necessarily give him the fairest shot to prove it.

Don't disagree with that statement, and I will concede that I could be underselling the bullshit of Pioli.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Five set pass plays with Orton = exponentially better than anything involving Palko.

If you're remotely justifying Palko playing, your argument is laughably flawed. Hell, there's likely no way that Stanzi can be worse than Palko, and there was that option at the very least.

QB aside, Haley was and is a joke as a HC.

The Orton vs. Palko thing isn't even an argument. Few head coaches would ever march a QB on the field with less than 2 days of preparation. And many head coaches would never start Orton over Palko with the condition of his finger. You're saying he should have played completely unprepared or injured. In both cases, most coaches would have done the same exact thing.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Sorry, you are never going to get me to admit that Palko gave us a better chance to win than Orton.

What would you have stood to lose by bringing in Orton? Oh that's right... nothing.

Orton wasn't even in uniform vs Pitt. He never made it to KC until Thursday.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 03:34 PM
Agree to disagree. If you think Haley was one of the worst, then you're in for a real treat with Romeo.

Sure would put a final, embarrassing stamp on Pioli's failed regime if Romeo turned out to be worse than Haley.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:35 PM
Orton wasn't even in uniform vs Pitt. He never made it to KC until Thursday.

Are you trying to say he wasn't in uniform because he didn't make it to KC in time to be?

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 03:42 PM
Are you trying to say he wasn't in uniform because he didn't make it to KC in time to be?

He didn't show up until Friday of that week. He didn't start practicing with the team until Friday Night. I'm sure Saturday wasn't an intense day of practice.

So yes, I think you're really reaching if this is the argument you want to hang your hat on. That a QB should learn a totally new offense in one day and that his team should be prepared to play with a guy they've only known for 1 day.

jd1020
07-22-2012, 03:43 PM
He didn't show up until Friday of that week. He didn't start practicing with the team until Friday Night. I'm sure Saturday wasn't an intense day of practice.

Plenty of time to come up with a handful of plays and be more successful than Palko. Unless, of course, you believe its possible to be worse than 0 TDs and 6 INTs.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 03:44 PM
Are you trying to say he wasn't in uniform because he didn't make it to KC in time to be?

He wasn't going to play. Period. That was not a mistake by Todd.

Not starting him in Chicago was.

Dave Lane
07-22-2012, 04:19 PM
i wish i could be the fly on the wall for the behind the doors debates on Cassel between Haley, Pioli, Clark, whoever.

So clear the Haleys knew he sucked just like the fans do. Big Ben is certainly an upgrade for Todd to work with.

Everything I've read said Haley knew what a liability Cassel was but was ordered by the crown to keep him in. And not to use Stanzi. Retarded orders from Scotty boy

gblowfish
07-22-2012, 04:41 PM
He wasn't going to play. Period. That was not a mistake by Todd.

Not starting him in Chicago was.

If memory serves, didn't they put Orton in for one snap against Chicago, they ran a flea flicker, and Orton bruised his hand hitting a Bear in the helmet?

milkman
07-22-2012, 04:46 PM
It's hard to get blown out in the NFL given the talent is so equal. It's not just the blowouts it's also the demeanor on the sideline. Haley's actions were embarrassing and not indicative of a leader at all.

I can't say I disagree with this.

I am not sure that Haley was a worse head coach than Herman fucking Edwards, though.

The blowouts might be telling to you, but the blowouts were, in large part, due to Haley's more aggressive style.

Herman fucking Edwards wouldn't take any kind of risk, ever, and that kept his team in a lot of games, but it also never gave his team any chance to steal wins.

Even Haley's approach to last offseson was risky, and it blew up in his face.

I still believe that, in time, he'll grow, and when he does, he will be a damn good head coach.

He just wasn't prepared for this opportunity.



Plenty of time to come up with a handful of plays and be more successful than Palko. Unless, of course, you believe its possible to be worse than 0 TDs and 6 INTs.

Seriously?

This is what you're going with?

LMAO

Dumbass.

kcxiv
07-22-2012, 04:55 PM
Best part is when haley was on that nfl show being part of the crew and they were taking digs at KC's front office and QB. lol That shit was great, i wish i had it recorded.

BoneKrusher
07-22-2012, 05:10 PM
No, I think Haley was horrendous b/c he was one of the worse game day coaches that I've seen in a long time. Completely and hopelessly lost on Sundays, and this quality and the suck of Cassel are mutually exclusive.

A-Men

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 05:13 PM
One of the worst, I meant. "Worse"?

And let's not pretend that Orton was sitting on a couch somewhere. The Palmer situation isn't analogous, though I know that Haley's super-duper-complicated offense would have made it difficult to learn even the barest essentials in 48-72 hours.

Draw!!!!

kcxiv
07-22-2012, 05:40 PM
I can't say I disagree with this.

I am not sure that Haley was a worse head coach than Herman ****ing Edwards, though.

The blowouts might be telling to you, but the blowouts were, in large part, due to Haley's more aggressive style.

Herman ****ing Edwards wouldn't take any kind of risk, ever, and that kept his team in a lot of games, but it also never gave his team any chance to steal wins.

Even Haley's approach to last offseson was risky, and it blew up in his face.

I still believe that, in time, he'll grow, and when he does, he will be a damn good head coach.

He just wasn't prepared for this opportunity.





Seriously?

This is what you're going with?

LMAO

Dumbass.

i agree. Didnt Pioli trade for Cassel before he hired Haley? Im not quite sure on that.

I liked Haley and he was a first time HC anywhere i beleive, i think he's gonna get another shot somewhere and this time will have a chance to pick a qb, not have one force fed down his throat.

I also remember Herm saying Punts were a good thing. lol Lets not forget that Herm threw the team under the bus after every loss. I did my job, they didnt do theirs. what kind of bullshit is that. I rather go for the gusto and try to take a win then just sit back hoping the other team makes a mistake. Good teams with good qb's go for it, not wait.

DaWolf
07-22-2012, 06:05 PM
The big thing to me is that there was never any stability with the coaching staff. There was never any rhyme or reason to his gameday coaching. To me, they are both indicators of a guy who has no idea what he wants to do, no idea how he wants to build a team, and no idea how to lead. He belongs right where he is, as an OC for an offense headed by a Super Bowl winning QB, and under a boss who actually knows how to lead men. In other words, a position pretty much any competent OC could be successful in. Haley is not head coaching material...

The Mayor
07-22-2012, 07:03 PM
The performances at Arrowhead were completely inexcusable! With that said I liked having a guy with so much enthusiasm. When BFlowers picked off Palmer in Oak and took it back for six, Haley raced down the entire sideline with him. It was such a contrast to Herm.

Molitoth
07-22-2012, 07:38 PM
I liked Haley, and think he can thrive in the proper situation.

Polio has too much control here, and I think Haley clashed with him on a lot of his decisions. (Like Cassel as QB)

notorious
07-22-2012, 07:39 PM
I hope he fails miserably in Pittsburgh. That spoiled fanbase deserves about 20-25 years of disappointment.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 07:43 PM
I hope he fails miserably in Pittsburgh. That spoiled fanbase deserves about 20-25 years of disappointment.

LMAO

Haley is far too smart to fail anywhere with a good QB.

I've always liked his playcalling, even here.

Lousy HC, but excellent OC.

notorious
07-22-2012, 07:45 PM
LMAO

Haley is far too smart to fail anywhere with a good QB.

I've always liked his playcalling, even here.

Lousy HC, but excellent OC.

Probably.


Rapelisburger will make him look like a genius, just like Warner did.


But seriously, fuck the spoiled Pittsburgh fanbase.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 07:47 PM
They went through a lot of lean years, just like us, although their idea of a lean year is 10-6.

They are now enjoying a franchise QB, so we should not hate.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 07:52 PM
do you think one day Chiefs fans can enjoy a franchise QB?

Molitoth
07-22-2012, 07:57 PM
LMAO

Haley is far too smart to fail anywhere with a good QB.

I've always liked his playcalling, even here.

Lousy HC, but excellent OC.

Running mccluster between the tackles is questionable.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 07:59 PM
God damn it! Reading this crap really iritates me. EVERYONE knows Matt is nothing special except the people who can do something about it. Turn up the heat Stanzi, your our only hope.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:00 PM
Agree to disagree. If you think Haley was one of the worst, then you're in for a real treat with Romeo.

Somehow, someway, it's comforting to know that you're still a fucking retard.

65TPT
07-22-2012, 08:01 PM
I liked Haley. Old news now. I hope the Packers game wasn't a one hit wonder for Crennel, that's all I hope. We do have more talent, but I think Haley got fucked. Doesn't matter now. We have who we have. I just hope Stanzi shines.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:03 PM
do you think one day Chiefs fans can enjoy a franchise QB?

Someday, lad, all this will be yours.

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Montana-Walsh.jpg

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:03 PM
Running mccluster between the tackles is questionable.

What does that and McCluster draws on 3rd and long tell you about Haley's thoughts on Cassel. But round and round we go.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:04 PM
People will come, Ray. People will most definitely come.

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/KxgEiPaqAlY/hqdefault.jpg

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:04 PM
do you think one day Chiefs fans can enjoy a franchise QB?

Can't enjoy it if you don't even try to find it.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:05 PM
LMAO

Haley is far too smart to fail anywhere with a good QB.

LMAO

Based on what, exactly? One year in Phoenix, where he was a foot shuffling porter to Whisenhunt?

Your hatred of the Chiefs has completely clouded your judgment.

Chiefs Pantalones
07-22-2012, 08:05 PM
Probably.


Rapelisburger will make him look like a genius, just like Warner did.


But seriously, **** the spoiled Pittsburgh fanbase.

Only about 20% of their "fans" are from Pittsburgh. Give me shit because my team sucks, that is fine...coming from a Pittsburgh native that is ok because that's your hometown team and you're not a bandwagon fan. But I hate it when the bandwagon fans give the die hard fans of opposing teams that are less fortunate shit. Like I tell all the "fans" of successful teams that give me crap at work...at least my team is my hometown team. Then they shut up for the day.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:05 PM
Haley was fine with Tony Romo. He was passing game coordinator during Romo's first year.

FYI, Haley was OC two years in AZ.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 08:07 PM
Haley put Warner back on the map as a name/player/etc. Dude was a backup of a backup.

milkman
07-22-2012, 08:08 PM
do you think one day Chiefs fans can enjoy a franchise QB?

Build a time machine and travel back to the mid to late 60s and early 70s.

At this point in time, that seems like the most likely way for that to happen.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:09 PM
Haley put Warner back on the map as a name/player/etc. Dude was a backup of a backup.

If this isn't a joke, your owner needs to take in for a spay, ASAP.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 08:10 PM
Somehow, someway, it's comforting to know that you're still a ****ing retard.

Not in this instance I'm not. Unless you're reading this out of context. Romeo was a horrendous game manager in Cleveland. I think you'll find very few people who would disagree with me here.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 08:10 PM
If this isn't a joke, your owner needs to take in for a spay ASAP.

are you even speaking English here? something about the ASPCA I guess?

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:11 PM
Not in this instance I'm not. Unless you're reading this out of context. Romeo was a horrendous game manager in Cleveland. I think you'll find very few people who would disagree with me here.

And he was very soft on his players.

Crennel MIGHT be a good head coach for a veteran, established team like the Patriots.

I think he's a HORRIBLE head coach for a young team that doesn't have a lot of clear cut veteran leaders.

milkman
07-22-2012, 08:12 PM
Haley put Warner back on the map as a name/player/etc. Dude was a backup of a backup.

I like Haley, but let's not get carried away here.

Warner hand a thumb issue that never really healed while with the Rams the last season, then signed with a team (the Giants) that he really wasn't a good fit.

Leinart played himself out of the job in Phoenix, and when Warner got the opportunity he ran with it.

Haley didn't put him back on the map.

That was all Warner.

Brock
07-22-2012, 08:14 PM
Haley put Warner back on the map as a name/player/etc. Dude was a backup of a backup.

ROFL

Brock
07-22-2012, 08:15 PM
Maybe after Haley's done fixing Roethlisberger he can go work his magic on Eli or Brady.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 08:16 PM
And he was very soft on his players.

Crennel MIGHT be a good head coach for a veteran, established team like the Patriots.

I think he's a HORRIBLE head coach for a young team that doesn't have a lot of clear cut veteran leaders.

I'm giving him a chance to prove otherwise, but I agree with you. I'm not crazy about the hire. I think we usually see with player's coaches that players play hard for them for a year or 2, and then the team starts to go soft.

That being said, at the very least, I think Pioli's built a better team full of leaders and hard working players that Cleveland did not -- nobody expects guys like Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards to lead a team. So maybe it will be fine this time around. But in terms of game management, unless he's done a 180, we're going to see a game manager who will bring us back to the days of Herm Edwards. Some of the avid Browns fans I spoke to told me to expect 2 challenges a game wasted on plays that aren't even close.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:17 PM
are you even speaking English here? something about the ASPCA I guess?

Dumber than I remembered.

And no, I'm typing on a mobile device, but clearly, you weren't able to figure out the gist of my post.

Which is not at all surprising.

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 08:18 PM
Maybe after Haley's done fixing Roethlisberger he can go work his magic on Eli or Brady.

There's a decent chance he can turn him into a SB-winning QB.

"But his work ethic is better! Haley motivated him!"

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:18 PM
And he was very soft on his players.

Crennel MIGHT be a good head coach for a veteran, established team like the Patriots.

I think he's a HORRIBLE head coach for a young team that doesn't have a lot of clear cut veteran leaders.

Your word should be treated as the gold standard because of the accuracy of your past predictions.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:18 PM
I think the whole hire is a farce anyway.

No one wanted to work with Pioli.

And no respectable OC wanted to work with Cassel.

So we were forced into Romeo by default, and we hired an OC that needed to eat some shit to advance his career.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 08:19 PM
Dumber than I remembered.

And no, I'm typing on a mobile device, but clearly, you weren't able to figure out the gist of my post.

Which is not at all surprising.

I can't figure it out because you type like a half-idiot, which is also, not surprising.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:20 PM
Not in this instance I'm not. Unless you're reading this out of context. Romeo was a horrendous game manager in Cleveland. I think you'll find very few people who would disagree with me here.

And those "people" would like be as fucking stupid as you.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:21 PM
I think the whole hire is a farce anyway.

No one wanted to work with Pioli.

And no respectable OC wanted to work with Cassel.

So we were forced into Romeo by default, and we hired an OC that needed to eat some shit to advance his career.

Just curious, if Pioli admits his mistake this year with Cassel, are you on board with Pioli and Crennel?

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:21 PM
I can't figure it out because you type like a half-idiot, which is also, not surprising.

Great comeback, smart guy! Now, do us all a favor and get back to pleasuring your mother.

mcaj22
07-22-2012, 08:22 PM
Great comeback, smart guy! Now, do us all a favor and get back to pleasuring your mother.

My mother is dead.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:23 PM
Just curious, if Pioli admits his mistake this year with Cassel, are you on board with Pioli and Crennel?

If it results in wins.

Pioli has backed himself into a corner where, if we lose because of Matt Cassel, he has the appealing options of Brady Quinn and Ricky Stanzi.

The fact that people can't recognize this for the epic failure it is continually astounds me.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:23 PM
Just curious, if Pioli admits his mistake this year with Cassel, are you on board with Pioli and Crennel?

"Admit" a mistake after four seasons? Is that even possible?

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:25 PM
My mother is dead.

That didn't seem to matter ten minutes ago.

:shrug:

Brock
07-22-2012, 08:25 PM
My mother is dead.

Try one of those new trojan finger vibes!

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 08:26 PM
Try one of those new trojan finger vibes!

LMAO

I think Dane just found Chiefsplanet a burst.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:30 PM
If it results in wins.

Pioli has backed himself into a corner where, if we lose because of Matt Cassel, he has the appealing options of Brady Quinn and Ricky Stanzi.

The fact that people can't recognize this for the epic failure it is continually astounds me.

I understand Pioli has messed up in regards to his inability to improve the most important position on the field. I guess I am trying to figure out if your hate for the heads of the org. are stemmed from Cassel or what. If it is because of Cassel, I can understand, he's shown his abilities. But you have to admit, your frustrations towards Pioli appear, at least in my eyes, to leak into other areas that it probably shouldn't.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 08:35 PM
"Admit" a mistake after four seasons? Is that even possible?

You're just on full blast, aren't you? Welcome back.

Coogs
07-22-2012, 08:35 PM
Warner... then signed with a team (the Giants) that he really wasn't a good fit.

Leinart played himself out of the job in Phoenix, and when Warner got the opportunity he ran with it.

Haley didn't put him back on the map.

That was all Warner.

Interesting theory.

Warner didn't do very well in NY because of the system... which would be coaching... yet flourished in Arizona but the coaching didn't have anything to do with it.


And no, I am not saying all the credit should go to Haley.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 08:39 PM
And those "people" would like be as ****ing stupid as you.

This is not the argument you want to hang your hat on. Romeo wasn't considered a joke of a game manager in just Cleveland. He was considered a joke around the league.

The most memorable moment was the game where I remember watching him call a timeout, sprint down the sidelines to make an ill-advised challenge, then lose the challenge (the Browns burned two timeouts). I also recall that in his short stint with Kansas City, he made a mind-numbingly dumb challenge on a reception where the receiver had two feet down by an absolute mile.

And if you want extra validation:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/tag/_/name/romeo-crennel
"I've got Romeo Crennel with an 0-13 challenge record at home, but 4-6 on the road." 4 for 19. That's less than a 25% success rate. Yikes.

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 08:41 PM
Haley put Warner back on the map as a name/player/etc. Dude was a backup of a backup.

:spock:

milkman
07-22-2012, 08:41 PM
Interesting theory.

Warner didn't do very well in NY because of the system... which would be coaching... yet flourished in Arizona but the coaching didn't have anything to do with it.


And no, I am not saying all the credit should go to Haley.

He didn't do well in New York because of philosophy.

Philosophy is dictated by coaching so you can draw that conclusion.

But to say he didnt do well is something of a misnomer.

He didn't play up to the level in New York that he did in St. Louis or Phoenix, but he did actually do a respectable job.

He just isn't a play action QB.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 08:47 PM
This is not the argument you want to hang your hat on. Romeo wasn't considered a joke of a game manager in just Cleveland. He was considered a joke around the league.

The most memorable moment was the game where I remember watching him call a timeout, sprint down the sidelines to make an ill-advised challenge, then lose the challenge (the Browns burned two timeouts). I also recall that in his short stint with Kansas City, he made a mind-numbingly dumb challenge on a reception where the receiver had two feet down by an absolute mile.

And if you want extra validation:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/tag/_/name/romeo-crennel
"I've got Romeo Crennel with an 0-13 challenge record at home, but 4-6 on the road." 4 for 19. That's less than a 25% success rate. Yikes.

Belichick is the same guy in New England as he was in Cleveland.

Tom Coughlin is the same guy in New York as he was in Jacksonville.

Coogs
07-22-2012, 08:50 PM
He didn't do well in New York because of philosophy.

Philosophy is dictated by coaching so you can draw that conclusion.

But to say he didnt do well is something of a misnomer.

He didn't play up to the level in New York that he did in St. Louis or Phoenix, but he did actually do a respectable job.

He just isn't a play action QB.

Fair enough.

kcxiv
07-22-2012, 09:45 PM
Coughlin and Bill went from Shit as a qb, to Manning and Brady

lol Romeo, went from Shit to Cassel. lol HUGE HUGE HUGE fucking difference.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 09:45 PM
"I've got Romeo Crennel with an 0-13 challenge record at home, but 4-6 on the road." 4 for 19. That's less than a 25% success rate. Yikes.

Holy SHIT.

Well, at least I won't have to write a declaration of independence from romeo. He'll die of old age before the proletariat rises up.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 09:47 PM
I understand Pioli has messed up in regards to his inability to improve the most important position on the field. I guess I am trying to figure out if your hate for the heads of the org. are stemmed from Cassel or what. If it is because of Cassel, I can understand, he's shown his abilities. But you have to admit, your frustrations towards Pioli appear, at least in my eyes, to leak into other areas that it probably shouldn't.

Really? You like Romeo Crennel? You like Brian Daboll? You liked the 2011 draft? You liked the 2009 draft? You liked Dexter McCluster?

There's lots of shit Pioli has fucked up. The 2010 and 2011 drafts were OK. Our free agent class this year is OK. Other than that, it's not hard to understand why we've only won 21 games in 3 years.

And shit like Dwayne Bowe doesn't help to change my opinion.

Chiefshrink
07-22-2012, 09:48 PM
I'll always think the guy would have had us In the superbowl if he had a quarterback.

His dad probably agrees with that.

Yep !

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 09:55 PM
Really? You like Romeo Crennel? You like Brian Daboll? You liked the 2011 draft? You liked the 2009 draft? You liked Dexter McCluster?

There's lots of shit Pioli has ****ed up. The 2010 and 2011 drafts were OK. Our free agent class this year is OK. Other than that, it's not hard to understand why we've only won 21 games in 3 years

And shit like Dwayne Bowe doesn't help to change my opinion.

As you started earlier, who would be hired with cassel as qb. You can't contradict yourself. Thats what I was wondering. I think Crennel shouldget another shot. But like you said Cassel is the reason they couldn't hire a better OC or HC.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 09:58 PM
As you started earlier, who would be hired with cassel as qb.

If Pioli can't get a decent HC to come here to work with Cassel, the answer is clear.

The hope some fans have this year is absolutely audacious. The wool has been pulled over their eyes (and I'm not talking about anyone here).

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 10:03 PM
If Pioli can't get a decent HC to come here to work with Cassel, the answer is clear.

The hope some fans have this year is absolutely audacious. The wool has been pulled over their eyes (and I'm not talking about anyone here).

So this cycles back to my question: if Pioli demotes Cassel this season, do you forgive him?

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:06 PM
So this cycles back to my question: if Pioli demotes Cassel this season, do you forgive him?

If we win.

If not, no, because that will be two years in a row he fucked up the backup QB position.

Fool me once...

I have very serious doubts he will ever allow Cassel to be benched. And if that doesn't happen, and he's here a 5th year, this whole place will be done with him.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Coughlin and Bill went from Shit as a qb, to Manning and Brady

Um, no. Not even close.

Or do you think that Mark Brunell in his prime was shit? And while Vinnie Testaverde never lived up to his #1 overall draft billing (read: Super Bowl victory), he was far from "shit" in Cleveland, Baltimore and later, the NY Jets.

Wrong answer.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:10 PM
And if you want extra validation:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/tag/_/name/romeo-crennel
"I've got Romeo Crennel with an 0-13 challenge record at home, but 4-6 on the road." 4 for 19. That's less than a 25% success rate. Yikes.

His challenge record was poor? Oh, then fire him now.

:facepalm:

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:12 PM
You know who else sucked at challenges?

He was black and 200 lbs lighter.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:14 PM
You know who else sucked at challenges?

He was black and 200 lbs lighter.

Please illustrate Romeo Crennel's colossal fuckups in the three weeks he spent as Chiefs head coach.

Thanks in advance.

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 10:16 PM
Please illustrate Romeo Crennel's colossal ****ups in the three weeks he spent as Chiefs head coach.

Thanks in advance.

Wasn't it Romeo's first game as HC, and the Chiefs were flagged for 12 men on the field very early? I'm thinking the first series or something?

And there was all sorts of talk about "renewed commitment" and "attention to detail" circulating in the media the week leading up to the game.

But it was "same old Chiefs." I could be wrong and am fucking up the timeline on this.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:22 PM
But it was "same old Chiefs." I could be wrong and am fucking up the timeline on this.

Yeah, same old Chiefs beat the previously undefeated Packers decisively with Jackie Battle running the ball, Barry Richardson manning the right tackle spot, Sabby Piscatelli at safety and Kyle Orton as the QB.

Juggernaut of offensive and defensive talent.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:23 PM
You know who else sucked at challenges?

He was black and 200 lbs lighter.

Yeah, well, he's black. Of course he's sucks at challenges.

:facepalm:

Racist, much?

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:25 PM
Please illustrate Romeo Crennel's colossal fuckups in the three weeks he spent as Chiefs head coach.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I can't.

I just know in my gut that a team of Romeo, Daboll and Cassel is a freaking joke.

I mean, we should have someone who's accomplished something in their current position SOMEWHERE among those three positions if we want to actually beat people, don't you think?

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 10:25 PM
If we win.

If not, no, because that will be two years in a row he ****ed up the backup QB position.

Fool me once...

I have very serious doubts he will ever allow Cassel to be benched. And if that doesn't happen, and he's here a 5th year, this whole place will be done with him.

Trust me if that happens I will have my pitchfork sharp while standing next to you.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:27 PM
Yeah, same old Chiefs beat the previously undefeated Packers decisively with Jackie Battle running the ball, Barry Richardson manning the right tackle spot, Sabby Piscatelli at safety and Kyle Orton as the QB.

Juggernaut of offensive and defensive talent.

We beat the Packers because they dropped too many passes.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 10:28 PM
Wasn't it Romeo's first game as HC, and the Chiefs were flagged for 12 men on the field very early? I'm thinking the first series or something?

And there was all sorts of talk about "renewed commitment" and "attention to detail" circulating in the media the week leading up to the game.

But it was "same old Chiefs." I could be wrong and am ****ing up the timeline on this.

Plus, a horrendous challenge (I think it was against Oakland). I just remember it was on a catch so obvious that the replay only had to show it once.

You're right on the 12 men on the field. They also had 10 men on the field and had to call a timeout. Against Oakland, they had 2 blocked field goals because they didn't make an adjustment, so the same exact thing happened. Though on each of these things, I think that's moreso on Hoffman than on Romeo.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:32 PM
Sorry, I can't.

I just know in my gut that a team of Romeo, Daboll and Cassel is a freaking joke.

I mean, we should have someone who's accomplished something in their current position SOMEWHERE among those three positions if we want to actually beat people, don't you think?

Thanks for the truthful admission.

I think that Romeo is among the best Defensive Coordinators of the past two decades. He constantly puts his players in a position to "win" each series and I think that we can all say that we've seen obvious growth in older players such as DJ and in younger players such as Hali, Dorsey and even Jackson.

As for Daboll, I didn't follow Cleveland when both he and Romeo were in that dreadful organization. But I do know that no one has had any success since Bill Belichick's 1994 season. It's been a complete and utter black hole since returning to the league and Mike Holmgren, who had Super Bowl success in Green Bay and Seattle, is spinning his wheels in the mud in Cleveland.

Daboll took over a bad Miami offense last year and without the help of OTA's and Mini-camps, created an offense about six games in that scored something like 25 points a game. He made Reggie Bush a complete running back for the first time in career and made guys like Anthony Fasano and Matt Moore appear respectable. I'd like to think that with the Chiefs offensive line and weapons, he'll be able to pick up where he left off in Miami and oversee an extremely potent offense, despite Cassel's shortcomings.

I am making no predictions at this point in time but I am hopeful that this young teams takes a huge leap on offense and the defense becomes a top NFL unit with the return of Eric Berry, the continued maturation of Dorsey, Jackson, Houston, Belcher and Lewis, along with the additions of Poe and Menzie.

The future is brighter than it's been in decades, IMO.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:32 PM
Even if he won a couple games, the shine came off Romeo as soon as he showed he was cool with coaching a team led by Matt Cassel.

He's just collecting a paycheck.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:33 PM
We beat the Packers because they dropped too many passes.

Sure.

And the Dwayne Bowe singlehandedly loses games because he drops too many passes.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:34 PM
Though on each of these things, I think that's moreso on Hoffman than on Romeo.

And where is Hoffman now?

Otter
07-22-2012, 10:35 PM
If I had a choice of grabbing a beer with Haley or Pioli it would be Haley hands down. While neither are an angel in the situation I'm sure I'm pretty sure one of them isn't hiding behind upper management and bureaucracy.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:35 PM
Even if he won a couple games, the shine came off Romeo as soon as he showed he was cool with coaching a team led by Matt Cassel.

He's just collecting a paycheck.

So, you would have preferred that he publicly call out the QB and GM?

Which planet do you live on, again?

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:38 PM
If I had a choice of grabbing a beer with Haley or Pioli it would be Haley hands down. While neither are an angel in the situation I'm sure I'm pretty sure one of them isn't hiding behind upper management and bureaucracy.

Haley's a fucking moron. I feel sorry for Steelers fans.

While I have been extremely vocal in my dislike for many of Pioli's decisions, this roster is among the best and youngest in decades. Outside of the QB situation, he's done a fine job.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:41 PM
So, you would have preferred that he publicly call out the QB and GM?

Which planet do you live on, again?

I would have preferred he not take the job, and force Pioli to do something smart.

Romeo is smart enough to know he isn't winning shit with Cassel. He's not gonna turn down a nice raise, though.

It's kind of like a guy getting promoted to manager and running a restaurant that's going under. Why would he turn down the promotion?

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 10:42 PM
Thanks for the truthful admission.

I think that Romeo is among the best Defensive Coordinators of the past two decades. He constantly puts his players in a position to "win" each series and I think that we can all say that we've seen obvious growth in older players such as DJ and in younger players such as Hali, Dorsey and even Jackson.

As for Daboll, I didn't follow Cleveland when both he and Romeo were in that dreadful organization. But I do know that no one has had any success since Bill Belichick's 1994 season. It's been a complete and utter black hole since returning to the league and Mike Holmgren, who had Super Bowl success in Green Bay and Seattle, is spinning his wheels in the mud in Cleveland.

Daboll took over a bad Miami offense last year and without the help of OTA's and Mini-camps, created an offense about six games in that scored something like 25 points a game. He made Reggie Bush a complete running back for the first time in career and made guys like Anthony Fasano and Matt Moore appear respectable. I'd like to think that with the Chiefs offensive line and weapons, he'll be able to pick up where he left off in Miami and oversee an extremely potent offense, despite Cassel's shortcomings.

I am making no predictions at this point in time but I am hopeful that this young teams takes a huge leap on offense and the defense becomes a top NFL unit with the return of Eric Berry, the continued maturation of Dorsey, Jackson, Houston, Belcher and Lewis, along with the additions of Poe and Menzie.

The future is brighter than it's been in decades, IMO.

I agree with you on Romeo as a Defensive Coordinator. I think he's a terrific coach and a terrific playcaller. And I agree that he is probably one of the better at both in the game right now.

As a head coach... he had some problems in Cleveland. You're right that maybe in his second stint, he fixes them. But we can't ignore that they happened. He has to be a better game manager in KC and he has to shed the reputation that he is soft on his players in a head coaching capacity. I hope he fixes those and I'm rooting for him to fix them. But for now, they're areas of concern for me until I see him prove those are things of the past.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:43 PM
I would have preferred he not take the job, and force Pioli to do something smart.

You expect a man that's offered an NFL head coaching job to say "No"?

ROFL

notorious
07-22-2012, 10:44 PM
I just hope that Cleveland really is/was the blackhole for successful coaches.

chiefzilla1501
07-22-2012, 10:44 PM
And where is Hoffman now?

Exactly. I don't blame those mistakes on Romeo. I don't know how much he had power to influence that.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:44 PM
Sure.

And the Dwayne Bowe singlehandedly loses games because he drops too many passes.

Dude, I'm serious. Go back and watch the game if you can. They screwed up about seven or eight plays they normally make.

The football gods smiled on us that day.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:45 PM
But we can't ignore that they happened.

Wrong.

I'm ignoring it. It's that simple. I'll take Romeo at face value in KC. If he's great, awesome. If he's average, that's too bad. If he's awful, the Chiefs will hire someone else.

But what happened in Cleveland, CLEVELAND of all places, should not be the sole barometer of the job he'll do in Kansas City. It shouldn't even factor in because it's the real Black Hole of the NFL.

DeezNutz
07-22-2012, 10:45 PM
Juggernaut of offensive and defensive talent.

True, but we lost Orton.

FTR, I'm willing to give Romeo a chance.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 10:46 PM
You expect a man that's offered an NFL head coaching job to say "No"?

ROFL

No, I don't. I'm not surprised he took the job.

That's a nice raise. Nice fat check to throw in the retirement fund right before retirement.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:47 PM
Dude, I'm serious. Go back and watch the game if you can. They screwed up about seven or eight plays they normally make.

The football gods smiled on us that day.

I am absolutely unwilling to say that the Chiefs won that day because the Packers lost. It's the NFL. There are no gimmies.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 10:51 PM
True, but we lost Orton.

FTR, I'm willing to give Romeo a chance.

Personally, I'm not happy with the fact that Pioli didn't seem to make an effort to re-sign Orton. The Packers game was the first game since 2005 that I felt like I was watching a NFL-caliber starting QB (and Orton is just average, at best).

I really can't figure out Pioli's end game at QB. It's difficult to have any kind of feel for Stanzi because he missed OTA's and Mini Camps in 2011, so he was certainly behind the curve entering training camp. And I'm quite glad that he wasn't thrown to the wolves last year, unprepared, because that could have shattered his confidence, although a more suitable backup should have been signed.

Pioli should be ashamed to have had Tyler Palko as his starting QB.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 10:58 PM
I am absolutely unwilling to say that the Chiefs won that day because the Packers lost. It's the NFL. There are no gimmies.

Shit, if anything we wrote the book on how to beat the packers last year. Did you notice once we exposed them the Giants followed our script to the t.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:05 PM
Shit, if anything we wrote the book on how to beat the packers last year. Did you notice once we exposed them the Giants followed our script to the t.

But, but Romeo can't handle being a Head Coach AND a Defensive Coordinator!

:D

All joking aside, I think Romeo earned a chance to coach this team in 2012. The Chiefs were one or two plays from winning the division against Oakland. If Haley hadn't started Palko for four weeks, I think the Chiefs would have won the division with Romeo.

Anyway, I'll judge him on his head coaching performance in KC, not on his performance in Cleveland. And quite honestly, I saw what I liked when he took over and hope that he can continue to move this team forward.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 11:06 PM
Wrong.

I'm ignoring it. It's that simple. I'll take Romeo at face value in KC. If he's great, awesome. If he's average, that's too bad. If he's awful, the Chiefs will hire someone else.

But what happened in Cleveland, CLEVELAND of all places, should not be the sole barometer of the job he'll do in Kansas City. It shouldn't even factor in because it's the real Black Hole of the NFL.

Ok what about the shit game he coached vs Oakland last year?

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:10 PM
Ok what about the shit game he coached vs Oakland last year?

Yeah, you're right. It's Crennel's fault that Orton threw for 300 yards and Succop missed two field goals and the Chiefs lost by three OT.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:13 PM
But, but Romeo can't handle being a Head Coach AND a Defensive Coordinator!

:D

All joking aside, I think Romeo earned a chance to coach this team in 2012. The Chiefs were one or two plays from winning the division against Oakland. If Haley hadn't started Palko for four weeks, I think the Chiefs would have won the division with Romeo.

Anyway, I'll judge him on his head coaching performance in KC, not on his performance in Cleveland. And quite honestly, I saw what I liked when he took over and hope that he can continue to move this team forward.

Completely agree, but if Cassel sinks I expect Crennel and Pioli to do the right thing and move this team forward. I can't help but feel like Haley was fired for trying to get Cassel replaced. Thus his father, Dick Haley, referring to him as average and Haley getting canned for such a thought.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:17 PM
I can't help but feel like Haley was fired for trying to get Cassel replaced.

Todd Haley was the worst game day coach I can recall seeing in my years as a Chiefs fan. He made idiotic decisions week in and week out, whether it was playcalling, personnel groups, calling out his players, etc.

The only thing that Todd Haley did well in Kansas City was to get the players in shape and for that, I think he'd make a fine Strength and Conditioning coach.

Thus his father, Dick Haley, referring to him as average and Haley getting canned for such a thought.

Father covering for his son, who by the way, pulled the strings to get the son hired in Pittsburgh.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 11:24 PM
Yeah, you're right. It's Crennel's fault that Orton threw for 300 yards and Succop missed two field goals and the Chiefs lost by three OT.

The penalties and blocked field goals weren't because of bad coaching? Interesting.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:26 PM
Personally, I'm not happy with the fact that Pioli didn't seem to make an effort to re-sign Orton.

He made an effort, and he lowballed him.

He has a very high opinion of goody two-shoes Cassel, and a low opinion of a drunkard like Orton.

Pioli is all about the intangibles. That's why he loooooves team captains!

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:27 PM
The penalties and blocked field goals weren't because of bad coaching? Interesting.

Why don't you point out the "bad" decisions instead of acting like nit-picky woman?

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 11:27 PM
The penalties and blocked field goals weren't because of bad coaching? Interesting.

How is a blocked FG bad coaching?

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:28 PM
How is a blocked FG bad coaching?

Because we didn't adjust to the way Oakland was attacking FGs.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:28 PM
He made an effort, and he lowballed him.



Fact or speculation? I heard nothing about an offer to Orton, in the press or otherwise, other than the deal he received to back up Romo in Dallas.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Fact or speculation? I heard nothing about an offer to Orton, in the press or otherwise, other than the deal he received to back up Romo in Dallas.

Pioli has been publicly quoted as saying they wanted Orton back, but the Cowboys made Orton a "very, very generous offer."

He scoffed at 3 years and 10.5 mil.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:33 PM
Pioli has been publicly quoted as saying they wanted Orton back, but the Cowboys made Orton a "very, very generous offer."

He scoffed at 3 years and 10.5 mil.

Again, is this fact or speculation?

BigMeatballDave
07-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Because we didn't adjust to the way Oakland was attacking FGs.

LOL

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:34 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/02/chiefs-romeo-crennel-scott-pioli-hint-kyle-orton-could-return-to-battle-matt-cassel/1#.UAziJrTbBj0

But Chiefs GM Scott Pioli said Friday that Orton and the team have mutual interest in reuniting.

"We've talked to Kyle's people. It sounds like Kyle would like to be with us. We've told Kyle we'd like to continue to work with him. Now it's just a matter of seeing if things arrive at the right place," said Pioli,

They flat out lowballed him.

http://m.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/mar/21/pioli-says-chiefs-made-early-run-at-manning/

"We made it abundantly clear to Kyle before he left for the offseason — and when the offseason started — that we would like to have him back and have him in this situation," Pioli said.

Instead, Orton agreed to a three-year deal with the Cowboys.

"I can't speak for Kyle in saying why he chose that situation," Pioli said, "but I know it was one heck of a contract he received. A very, very generous contract, which he earned."

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Because we didn't adjust to the way Oakland was attacking FGs.

And where is Steve Hoffman these days?

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Todd Haley was the worst game day coach I can recall seeing in my years as a Chiefs fan. He made idiotic decisions week in and week out, whether it was playcalling, personnel groups, calling out his players, etc.

The only thing that Todd Haley did well in Kansas City was to get the players in shape and for that, I think he'd make a fine Strength and Conditioning coach.



Father covering for his son, who by the way, pulled the strings to get the son hired in Pittsburgh.

Touche.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:38 PM
The flat out lowballed him.



http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/3/29/2912253/dallas-cowboys-quarterback-kyle-orton-role-in-dallas-tony-romo

You didnít want to go somewhere where you had a chance of competing to be the starter?

"Well Iíve kind of been in that situation the last three or four years just going into camp and competing. To be honest with you I donít think that situation has worked for me. I donít think itís worked out for the club. I think you need to know who your guy is going to be going right into the season and backing that guy. I donít think thatís been the situation that I have been in and I really didnít want to get into that situation again. Iím fine with knowing my role as the backup on this team. I am going to be the best backup I can and support Tony [Romo] any way that I can."

------------------

Yeah, it really sounds like he wanted a starting job in the NFL.

:rolleyes:

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:39 PM
Sounds to me like he wanted the Chiefs to pay him starter money to be the starter, and didn't want any part of competing with another piece of shit QB.

If the other option was Cassel, why not?

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:41 PM
Sounds to me like he wanted the Chiefs to pay him starter money to be the starter, and didn't want any part of competing with another piece of shit QB.

If the other option was Cassel, why not?

And it sounds to me like he either wanted the starting job handed to him or he'd go elsewhere to be a back up. Pioli likely told him he had to compete for the job and Orton said "Adios, Muchacho".

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:44 PM
And it sounds to me like he either wanted the starting job handed to him or he'd go elsewhere to be a back up. Pioli likely told him he had to compete for the job and Orton said "Adios, Muchacho".

And I don't blame him.

Pioli will regret the decision. But there's no doubt his ego couldn't take being told what was up by Kyle Orton.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:46 PM
And I don't blame him.

Pioli will regret the decision. But there's no doubt his ego couldn't take being told what was up by Kyle Orton.

It's clear that Kyle Orton didn't want to compete for a starting NFL job. That being the case, I'm happy Pioli didn't sign him.

Titty Meat
07-22-2012, 11:47 PM
Why don't you point out the "bad" decisions instead of acting like nit-picky woman?

A nit-picky woman? Lame.

For starters 11 penalties for 88 yards for what all intents and purposes was a playoff game.

2 blocked field goals. The 2nd one we didn't adjust despite Seymor getting penetration all day IIRC he almost blocked another one.

Going for it on 4th down in our own territory on 4th down with plenty of time left in the game.

The overall game was just sloppy go back and read the game day thread. Some of the very knowledgeable posters said that was one of the sloppiest coached games they've ever seen.

You mentioned Orton threw for 300 yards and this important to point out: Cassel doesn't have the ability to throw for 300 yards in a game. Crennel barely won those 2 games and easily would have gone 0-3 with Cassel. He was hired not because he gives the team the best chance at winning a super bowl. He was hired because he's familiar with Scott Pioli who didn't want to take a chance because another losing season or 2 and he's canned.

The overall talent might be better but as far as the QB position it's just as bad if not worse than it was in Cleveland.

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:47 PM
It's clear that Kyle Orton didn't want to compete for a starting NFL job. That being the case, I'm happy Pioli didn't sign him.


Me too, to be honest.

Pioli has done a fine job of positioning a toaster next to his bathtub.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:52 PM
Dane vs toad = batman vs joker. An unstoppable force meeting an immovable object.
:popcorn:

Hammock Parties
07-22-2012, 11:55 PM
Some men just want to watch Chiefsplanet burn.

DaneMcCloud
07-22-2012, 11:55 PM
For starters 11 penalties for 88 yards for what all intents and purposes was a playoff game.

First off, the team competed far more under Crennel than they did under Haley. That much was evident by the naked eye.

Secondly, I don't think that any reasonable person would expect immediate miracles, especially when the roster still consisted of Jackie Battle, Barry Richardson, Kyle Orton, Sabby Piscatelli, etc. and so on.

2 blocked field goals. The 2nd one we didn't adjust despite Seymor getting penetration all day IIRC he almost blocked another one.

If you want to blame someone, blame Steve Hoffman. BTW, he was fired.

Going for it on 4th down in our own territory on 4th down with plenty of time left in the game.

So it's GREAT when Haley does it (oh, he's so daring) but when Crennel does it, it's a bad decision? Bullshit. When going for it on fourth down works, the coach is a genius. When it doesn't, he's an imbecile.


The overall game was just sloppy go back and read the game day thread.

Is that what you just did?

The overall talent might be better but as far as the QB position it's just as bad if not worse than it was in Cleveland.

Laughable. Just fucking laughable.

Name ONE season in Cleveland where Crennel had a defense as talented as the Chiefs. Cleveland has NEVER had perimeter weapons like Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Moeaki and Boss simultaneously, along with a running back like Charles.

The Browns and Chiefs may be equal in terms of QB suckage during Crennel's tenure, but that's about the only parallel that should be drawn.

mdchiefsfan
07-22-2012, 11:56 PM
Some men just want to watch Chiefsplanet burn.

LMAO

lcarus
07-22-2012, 11:58 PM
It's clear that Kyle Orton didn't want to compete for a starting NFL job. That being the case, I'm happy Pioli didn't sign him.

It's kind of odd. Orton had to have known he could beat out Cassel for the starting job right? Unless he was led to believe Cassel would be the starter no matter what. In which case he'd rather backup a QB that actually deserved to be a starter.

Either that, or he doesn't give a shit about being a starter or competing for a starting gig, in which case, fuck Kyle Orton.

Hammock Parties
07-23-2012, 12:00 AM
Either that, or he doesn't give a shit about being a starter or competing for a starting gig, in which case, fuck Kyle Orton.

I never thought this was the case.

There are 32 of these jobs in the world. Who wouldn't want to be an NFL starting QB?

And even if it was the case, sign Orton, bench Cassel, and tell Kyle to deal with it. What's he gonna do? Throw games?

lcarus
07-23-2012, 12:02 AM
I never thought this was the case.

There are 32 of these jobs in the world. Who wouldn't want to be an NFL starting QB?

And even if it was the case, sign Orton, bench Cassel, and tell Kyle to deal with it. What's he gonna do? Throw games?

Beats me. I don't understand the situation. Orton is clearly better than Cassel. Something tells me Pioli made it clear that Cassel was "the man" in KC so Orton said fuck you then.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:02 AM
It's kind of odd. Orton had to have known he could beat out Cassel for the starting job right? Unless he was led to believe Cassel would be the starter no matter what. In which case he'd rather backup a QB that actually deserved to be a starter.

Either that, or he doesn't give a shit about being a starter or competing for a starting gig, in which case, fuck Kyle Orton.

Well, if you read that article, in short, Orton says he's done competing for a starting job. He likes the notion of being the backup only. The starter should be clearly defined.

It sounds to me like he was sick of competing against Tebow and didn't want to compete against Cassel. So, he took the next best thing which was to back up Romo and collect a fat paycheck.

I can't blame him for that but I'm glad he's not on the Chiefs roster.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:04 AM
First off, the team competed far more under Crennel than they did under Haley. That much was evident by the naked eye.

Secondly, I don't think that any reasonable person would expect immediate miracles, especially when the roster still consisted of Jackie Battle, Barry Richardson, Kyle Orton, Sabby Piscatelli, etc. and so on.



If you want to blame someone, blame Steve Hoffman. BTW, he was fired.



So it's GREAT when Haley does it (oh, he's so daring) but when Crennel does it, it's a bad decision? Bullshit. When going for it on fourth down works, the coach is a genius. When it doesn't, he's an imbecile.




Is that what you just did?



Laughable. Just ****ing laughable.

Name ONE season in Cleveland where Crennel had a defense as talented as the Chiefs. Cleveland has NEVER had perimeter weapons like Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Moeaki and Boss simultaneously, along with a running back like Charles.

The Browns and Chiefs may be equal in terms of QB suckage during Crennel's tenure, but that's about the only parallel that should be drawn.

1. You just said Haley was an awful coach so that's not saying much.

2. Hoffman was a scape goat. Is it a coincidence that Clevelands special teams sucked when Crennel was the coach?

3. Find a post where I said it was great that Haley went for it on 4th downs. I believe I talked about this in another thread where I said Haley was a moron for going for it on 4th down on the 28 yard line against Denver.

4. Laughable? The QB position is the most important position. Crennel sucked in Cleveland because of bad coaching and shitty QB's how is that different here?

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:04 AM
It's kind of odd. Orton had to have known he could beat out Cassel for the starting job right? Unless he was led to believe Cassel would be the starter no matter what. In which case he'd rather backup a QB that actually deserved to be a starter.

Either that, or he doesn't give a shit about being a starter or competing for a starting gig, in which case, **** Kyle Orton.

It sounds to me like he wanted to know his place, his role. By going to Dallas he put that decision in his own hands. He wanted stability and certainty, the fact that he found that as a backup tells me what kind of competitor he is.

lcarus
07-23-2012, 12:06 AM
Well, if you read that article, in short, Orton says he's done competing for a starting job. He likes the notion of being the backup only. The starter should be clearly defined.

It sounds to me like he was sick of competing against Tebow and didn't want to compete against Cassel. So, he took the next best thing which was to back up Romo and collect a fat paycheck.

I can't blame him for that but I'm glad he's not on the Chiefs roster.

I can't blame him for that either I guess. Doesn't matter though. He's not our answer anyway. I'd rather see what Stanzi can do if Cassel goes down. If that doesn't work out, then we're back to square one.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:08 AM
2. Hoffman was a scape goat. Is it a coincidence that Clevelands special teams sucked when Crennel was the coach?

Hoffman was a scape goat? What? Succop was not good last year, at all and he wasn't "great" the year before. Coupled with the blocked field goals, it was time for him to go.

I said it in 2009 and I'll say it again now: It was a mistake to cut Connor Barth in favor of Succop. Succop was Pioli's 7th round draft choice and he's hardly been special.

Meanwhile, Barth just signed a 4 year, $13 million dollar deal in Tampa.

4. Laughable? The QB position is the most important position. Crennel sucked in Cleveland because of bad coaching and shitty QB's how is that different here?

So, Crennel sucks because he doesn't have a QB? What the fuck kind of logic is that?

Furthermore, he fired key members of Haley's staff and replaced them with his own choices. Condemning him to failure based on the Raiders game is ridiculously premature.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:10 AM
There's talk that Orton didn't want to compete but that doesn't make sense.

When has Pioli ever paid a backup QB (besides Cassel) 5 million dollars per year?

mcaj22
07-23-2012, 12:10 AM
he probably thought the odds were stacked against him in KC to even compete. If you think he would ever have a chance to legit beat out Cassel no matter how he looked in practice or what media said in training camp, he would have still been the backup opening day anyway, just like with Tebow.

So he took more money to do the same thing in Dallas behind an actual QB that is better than him, so his role looks more legitimate, because I'm sure to Kyle Orton, he knows and thinks he's better than Cassel.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:12 AM
I can't blame him for that either I guess. Doesn't matter though. He's not our answer anyway. I'd rather see what Stanzi can do if Cassel goes down. If that doesn't work out, then we're back to square one.

I'd prefer that Stanzi be brought along slowly. As I previously mentioned, he wasn't privy to OTA's and Mini Camps in 2011, which would have put him further along last year. This year, he's participated in both, although they've been greatly reduced over prior years due to the new CBA.

If Cassel is hurt or is absolutely abysmal, I expect to see Quinn for at least a few games, if not the rest of the season. Unless Stanzi makes an enormous jump this year, I'm betting he won't be a contender for the starting job until 2013.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:14 AM
Hoffman was a scape goat? What? Succop was not good last year, at all and he wasn't "great" the year before. Coupled with the blocked field goals, it was time for him to go.

I said it in 2009 and I'll say it again now: It was a mistake to cut Connor Barth in favor of Succop. Succop was Pioli's 7th round draft choice and he's hardly been special.

Meanwhile, Barth just signed a 4 year, $13 million dollar deal in Tampa.



So, Crennel sucks because he doesn't have a QB? What the **** kind of logic is that?

Furthermore, he fired key members of Haley's staff and replaced them with his own choices. Condemning him to failure based on the Raiders game is ridiculously premature.

Succop must not be that bad they extended himl.

Read what I said man. Cleveland had shit for QB AND CRENNEL WAS A SHITTY COACH.

Awesome. He fired members of Haley's staff and hired Brian Daboll who's offenses have sucked and the Rams ST coach whos special teams sucked. Like I said these aren't improvements.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:15 AM
There's talk that Orton didn't want to compete but that doesn't make sense.



Talk? Orton says it plain as day in the interview I linked. There was no other way to interpret his words. He did not want to compete.

"Well Iíve kind of been in that situation the last three or four years just going into camp and competing. To be honest with you I donít think that situation has worked for me. I donít think itís worked out for the club. I think you need to know who your guy is going to be going right into the season and backing that guy. I donít think thatís been the situation that I have been in and I really didnít want to get into that situation again. Iím fine with knowing my role as the backup on this team."

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/3/29/2912253/dallas-cowboys-quarterback-kyle-orton-role-in-dallas-tony-romo

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:16 AM
Succop must not be that bad they extended himl.

Read what I said man. Cleveland had shit for QB AND CRENNEL WAS A SHITTY COACH.

Awesome. He fired members of Haley's staff and hired Brian Daboll who's offenses have sucked and the Rams ST coach whos special teams sucked. Like I said these aren't improvements.

Daboll's offense sucked in Miami? I guessed I missed the last half of their 2011 season.

Extending Succop was a mistake, IMO. He's nothing more than average, at best.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:17 AM
Talk? Orton says it plain as day in the interview I linked. There was no other way to interpret his words. He did not want to compete.

"Well Iíve kind of been in that situation the last three or four years just going into camp and competing. To be honest with you I donít think that situation has worked for me. I donít think itís worked out for the club. I think you need to know who your guy is going to be going right into the season and backing that guy. I donít think thatís been the situation that I have been in and I really didnít want to get into that situation again. Iím fine with knowing my role as the backup on this team."

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/3/29/2912253/dallas-cowboys-quarterback-kyle-orton-role-in-dallas-tony-romo

That doesn't mean he doesn't want to compete for a job. It could mean the "competition" was lopsided. We all know the only reason they played Tebow was because he was a first round pick. Do you honestly think Orton would be given a fair chance to compete against Cassel? Yeah right. Cassel is Pioli's boy. I bet the Chiefs didn't offer Orton 5 mil per either.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:19 AM
Peter King on the signing of Orton:

I'm amazed that the Dallas Cowboys paid Orton -- who I consider the best of the available backups, and not by a small amount -- a $5 million signing bonus for a five-year deal that will likely void to three years. I understand sleeping better at night, which the Cowboys will do now that they have maybe the best backup quarterback in football as insurance for Tony Romo instead of the iffy Stephen McGee. But I've never heard of paying a guy you hope will never play a $5 million signing bonus.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:20 AM
That doesn't mean he doesn't want to compete for a job. It could mean the "competition" was lopsided. We all know the only reason they played Tebow was because he was a first round pick. Do you honestly think Orton would be given a fair chance to compete against Cassel? Yeah right. Cassel is Pioli's boy. I bet the Chiefs didn't offer Orton 5 mil per either.

Oh, give me a break. Your post is unfounded speculation.

Everyone knows his history with Tebow. Clearly, he didn't want to fight for a starting job with Cassel and decided to take the backup job in Dallas, plain and simple.

There's nothing more to it. He was tired of competing for a starting job and took the next best thing: A backup job with no competition.

Hammock Parties
07-23-2012, 12:20 AM
Are we really complaining about an 81 percent FG kicker?

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:22 AM
BTW Dane, I've found a quote that contradicts the one you posted.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/orton_not_content_being_a_backup_forever/10972556

Tony Romo doesn't need to be looking over his shoulder, no matter what Kyle Orton says. Orton, the Cowboys' new backup quarterback, caused a minor stir during OTA's by saying he's not content being second string. "I feel like I've played good ball in this league," Orton told the Cowboys' official web site. "I feel I've got a lot of good ball left in me. I don't see this as committing myself to be the backup. I'm just committing myself to be a part of the team.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:22 AM
Are we really complaining about an 81 percent FG kicker?

I am. :D

I don't like Succop. Never have. I don't think he's a clutch guy.

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:23 AM
Are we really complaining about an 81 percent FG kicker?

With cassel at qb? you bet your sweet ass :D

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:25 AM
BTW Dane, I've found a quote that contradicts the one you posted.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/orton_not_content_being_a_backup_forever/10972556

Tony Romo doesn't need to be looking over his shoulder, no matter what Kyle Orton says. Orton, the Cowboys' new backup quarterback, caused a minor stir during OTA's by saying he's not content being second string. "I feel like I've played good ball in this league," Orton told the Cowboys' official web site. "I feel I've got a lot of good ball left in me. I don't see this as committing myself to be the backup. I'm just committing myself to be a part of the team.

And in that same exact, run-on paragraph, Orton says this:

"Tony's the man, you know? There ain't no doubt about it," Orton said to dallascowboys.com. "He's played great football. He's a great quarterback. So I'm excited. It's really the first time I've been around another veteran in my career. I've done a lot of learning with young guys in the room. I can still learn a lot about football, and hopefully I can help him out in any way I can."

That hardly sounds like a guy who is going to push Romo for the starting job.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:27 AM
And in that same exact, run-on paragraph, Orton says this:

"Tony's the man, you know? There ain't no doubt about it," Orton said to dallascowboys.com. "He's played great football. He's a great quarterback. So I'm excited. It's really the first time I've been around another veteran in my career. I've done a lot of learning with young guys in the room. I can still learn a lot about football, and hopefully I can help him out in any way I can."

That hardly sounds like a guy who is going to push Romo for the starting job.

He got a 5 million dollar signing bonus. How much were the Chiefs offering?

You know damn well the competition would have been lopsided in Cassel's favor just look at every other year he's been here theres never been a real backup QB on the team. That was done by design.

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:31 AM
He got a 5 million dollar signing bonus. How much were the Chiefs offering?

You know damn well the competition would have been lopsided in Cassel's favor just look at every other year he's been here theres never been a real backup QB on the team. That was done by design.

Plain and simple, he had a better shot of beating Cassel than he does Romo. Thats what it boils down to. He chose money over chance to start.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:31 AM
He got a 5 million dollar signing bonus. How much were the Chiefs offering?

Who knows? Do you? How much was any other team in the league offering?

You know damn well the competition would have been lopsided in Cassel's favor just look at every other year he's been here theres never been a real backup QB on the team. That was done by design.

More speculation.

The reality is that Orton signed a contract to be a backup in Dallas. He didn't sign with Jacksonville or Miami or any other QB needy team. He didn't wait until Training Camp or PreSeason for a potential starting job due to injury. He signed to be a back up.

That's all you need to know about Kyle Orton.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:34 AM
Who knows? Do you? How much was any other team in the league offering?



More speculation.

The reality is that Orton signed a contract to be a backup in Dallas. He didn't sign with Jacksonville or Miami or any other QB needy team. He didn't wait until Training Camp or PreSeason for a potential starting job due to injury. He signed to be a back up.

That's all you need to know about Kyle Orton.

It's speculation that Pioli who gave Cassel 63 million dollars wouldn't favor him? Really?

Yeah he signed because he got a 5 million dollar signing bonus.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:36 AM
It's speculation that Pioli who gave Cassel 63 million dollars wouldn't favor him? Really?

Yeah he signed because he got a 5 million dollar signing bonus.

Wow, you're really not getting this, are you?

Kyle Orton did not want to be a starting QB. Period. End of story. Otherwise, he would have waited for a better opportunity. There was no reason for him to sign a deal immediately after free agency opened unless he had made the decision to be a backup.

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:40 AM
Wow, you're really not getting this, are you?

Kyle Orton did not want to be a starting QB. Period. End of story. Otherwise, he would have waited for a better opportunity. There was no reason for him to sign a deal immediately after free agency opened unless he had made the decision to be a backup.

You're really not getting this.

He was offered a 5 million dollar signing bonus.

Post a link showing where another team offered him that much money.

Miami's owner didn't want him. They had a deal in place last year to trade for him Stephen Ross didn't want to pay him. Jacksonville drafted a QB in the first round last year.

Where was he going to be the starter at?

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 12:44 AM
You're really not getting this.

He was offered a 5 million dollar signing bonus.

Post a link showing where another team offered him that much money.

Miami's owner didn't want him. They had a deal in place last year to trade for him Stephen Ross didn't want to pay him. Jacksonville drafted a QB in the first round last year.

Where was he going to be the starter at?

JFC, you are a fucking moron.

IF Kyle Orton WANTED to be a STARTING QB, he would have competed with Cassel or WAITED until a STARTING POSITION was available elsewhere.

PERIOD.

His actions PROVE that he was CONTENT with being a backup. NO ONE FORCED HIM TO SIGN A CONTRACT.

Is it just me or did you somehow become dumber in my absence?

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 12:49 AM
JFC, you are a ****ing moron.

IF Kyle Orton WANTED to be a STARTING QB, he would have competed with Cassel or WAITED until a STARTING POSITION was available elsewhere.

PERIOD.

His actions PROVE that he was CONTENT with being a backup. NO ONE FORCED HIM TO SIGN A CONTRACT.

Is it just me or did you somehow become dumber in my absence?

Says the guy who left an internet message board for over a year because someone called him a name.

There was no competition you moron. Matt Cassel is one of the highest paid Chiefs for a reason. Scott Pioli for whatever reason believes he's a good QB. The Chiefs were so serious about bringing in competition they signed Brady Quinn ROFL and last year they brought in Tyler Palko.

Is it just me or did you come back as an even bigger pussy?

mdchiefsfan
07-23-2012, 12:57 AM
Says the guy who left an internet message board for over a year because someone called him a name.

There was no competition you moron. Matt Cassel is one of the highest paid Chiefs for a reason. Scott Pioli for whatever reason believes he's a good QB. The Chiefs were so serious about bringing in competition they signed Brady Quinn ROFL and last year they brought in Tyler Palko.

Is it just me or did you come back as an even bigger pussy?

Not trying to step into whatever history is between you, but regardless of what Orton felt, he had a better chance to start by joining the Chiefs. Romo is without a doubt the starter in Dallas, much like you are saying is the situation with Cassel. Cassel is a lesser quality qb therefore if he wanted to start, he would pick the weaker qb (ie. Cassel). He chose Dallas knowing what he was signing up for; money, not starting.

whoman69
07-23-2012, 08:06 AM
It's speculation that Pioli who gave Cassel 63 million dollars wouldn't favor him? Really?

Yeah he signed because he got a 5 million dollar signing bonus.

I think the interest in Peyton Manning played a role. Orton was pretty much out the door by the time the Chiefs relegated themselves to be out of the Manning sweepstakes. Personally I think that in a fair competition Orton blows Cassel away, but he's so horrible in the red zone that its probably a good thing he's in Dallas.

King_Chief_Fan
07-23-2012, 01:05 PM
JFC, you are a ****ing moron.

IF Kyle Orton WANTED to be a STARTING QB, he would have competed with Cassel or WAITED until a STARTING POSITION was available elsewhere.

PERIOD.

His actions PROVE that he was CONTENT with being a backup. NO ONE FORCED HIM TO SIGN A CONTRACT.

Is it just me or did you somehow become dumber in my absence?

well what do you know...the ex resident know it all has returned to reclaim his throne......you are now less relavant than ever...you went crying out of here because someone called you a name and had the nerve to return. can't wait until you leave again

BigMeatballDave
07-23-2012, 02:24 PM
well what do you know...the ex resident know it all has returned to reclaim his throne......you are now less relavant than ever...you went crying out of here because someone called you a name and had the nerve to return. can't wait until you leave again

U mad?

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 03:03 PM
well what do you know...the ex resident know it all has returned to reclaim his throne......you are now less relavant than ever...you went crying out of here because someone called you a name and had the nerve to return. can't wait until you leave again

Not that it matters, but who the fuck are you?

And JFC, you must have some kind of jacked up, inflated idea about me to think that I'm here to "reclaim" some kind of throne?

Wow, some of you people are just all kinds of fucked up.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 03:14 PM
Says the guy who left an internet message board for over a year because someone called him a name.

You're real fucking smart guy. :facepalm:

There was no competition you moron. Matt Cassel is one of the highest paid Chiefs for a reason. Scott Pioli for whatever reason believes he's a good QB. The Chiefs were so serious about bringing in competition they signed Brady Quinn ROFL and last year they brought in Tyler Palko.

Wow, way to change the subject. First, Orton wasn't re-signed because Dallas offered him a $5 million dollar bonus, now, it's because there is no competition for Matt Cassel?

You can't even stay on topic or put together a logical thought. Too much meth?

Is it just me or did you come back as an even bigger pussy?

Wow, how creative. Did you think of that all by yourself?

kcxiv
07-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Look, im not danes biggest fan and he's not one of mine. Im ok with that, but some of the way people like to act like bitches on here is like 16 year old high school clueless shit. lol

Titty Meat
07-23-2012, 03:26 PM
Not that it matters, but who the **** are you?

And JFC, you must have some kind of jacked up, inflated idea about me to think that I'm here to "reclaim" some kind of throne?

Wow, some of you people are just all kinds of ****ed up.

You're real ****ing smart guy. :facepalm:



Wow, way to change the subject. First, Orton wasn't re-signed because Dallas offered him a $5 million dollar bonus, now, it's because there is no competition for Matt Cassel?

You can't even stay on topic or put together a logical thought. Too much meth?



Wow, how creative. Did you think of that all by yourself?

Stomp your feet some more Danelle maybe you'll leave for good this time.

You mean to say there can't be more than one reason for Orton leaving?

ROFL I guess only in a world where some F list movie director plays a big shot on an internet message board. I should be careful what I say though you'll either make another leaving thread or complain to the mods about bullying.

DaneMcCloud
07-23-2012, 03:28 PM
Stomp your feet some more Danelle maybe you'll leave for good this time.

You mean to say there can't be more than one reason for Orton leaving?

ROFL I guess only in a world where some F list movie director plays a big shot on an internet message board. I should be careful what I say though you'll either make another leaving thread or complain to the mods about bullying.

Wow. Just wow.

Well I can tell you one thing's for certain: I didn't begin posting on this forum again so that I could argue with immature children.

Goodbye, Billay. Good luck.

BigMeatballDave
07-23-2012, 03:39 PM
Stomp your feet some more Danelle maybe you'll leave for good this time.

You mean to say there can't be more than one reason for Orton leaving?

ROFL I guess only in a world where some F list movie director plays a big shot on an internet message board. I should be careful what I say though you'll either make another leaving thread or complain to the mods about bullying.

Why are you being an ass?

You were wrong. Deal with it like a man.

BigMeatballDave
07-23-2012, 03:49 PM
Billay - You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.

Don't worry, neither am I.

Dane is/was a quality poster. This place is a source of entertainment for me. Dane adds to that. I like his football takes. Much more than yours.

Stop being a little bitch.

Insert a fresh tampon and get over whatever butthurt Dane caused you.

Have a nice day!

:)