Man Seated Next to Unaccompanied Minors Forced to Change Seats

[JonesCrusher]

A man traveling from to Brisbane from Sydney was asked to change his seats so he would no longer be next to two unaccompanied minors on a Virgin Australia flight.
A flight attendant asked 33-year-old Sydney fireman Johnny McGirr to switch seats with a woman after he was seated next to two young boys on an April flight, the Sydney Morning Herald reported. McGirr said he estimated the boys to be ten years old. He wrote about his experience in a blog post titled “My Virgin experience as a Paedophile!”
He said he was approached and told he had to move. When he asked why, he was told, ”Well, because you are male, you can’t be seated next to two unaccompanied minors.” He said he thought the request was sexist and discriminatory, but was told it was the airline’s policy.
“As I collected my things from the seat pocket I could see people looking at me and wondering why I was being moved. I was red from embarrassment. I felt like I was being judged and found guilty of a crime I hadn’t committed. It was an uncomfortable situation and I felt ashamed which was a weird feeling because I hadn’t done anything wrong.”
McGirr wrote to the airline to complain.
A spokeswoman for Virgin Australia confirmed the policy to the paper and said while the airline did not want to offend male passengers, its priority was the safety of children. ”In our experience, most guests thoroughly understand that the welfare of the child is our priority,” she said.
The spokeswoman told the newspaper that staff usually tried to keep the seat empty but, when that was not possible, a woman was seated next to the child.
On the airline’s blog and on Twitter, Virgin Australia said: “We understand the concerns raised around our policy for children traveling alone, a long standing policy initially based on customer feedback.
“In light of recent feedback, we’re now reviewing this policy. Our intention is certainly not to discriminate in any way.”
ABC News was unable to reach Virgin Australia directly for comment.

[Garcia Bronco]

Good response from the company...and I think the correct course of action is to not allow unaccompanied minors to travel...or they assume the risk.

[-King-]

If they're going to do that, the least they could do is put him in a first class seat.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Franchise]

That's bullshit.

[KCUnited]

ErrMcGirrd!

[Brock]

Good response from the company...and I think the correct course of action is to not allow unaccompanied minors to travel...or they assume the risk.

Who assumes the risk?

[Garcia Bronco]

Personally I wouldn't have moved. They'd have to kick me off the flight...at which point I'd have to sue.

[Garcia Bronco]

Who assumes the risk?

The guardians/parents of the minors

[JonesCrusher]

This is who they replaced him with. She looks nice enough

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBlVUhQDDoKb2gVggqxcwsHAgB-luHrfrqXr-6YfVIvqxXuH5i

[Brock]

Personally I wouldn't have moved. They'd have to kick me off the flight...at which point I'd have to sue.

I see somebody has never read the terms of service.

[Rain Man]

If they're going to do that, the least they could do is put him in a first class seat.
Posted via Mobile Device

That seems like the way to go. If they're going to discriminate against you based on gender, they should compensate you in some way.

[blaise]

It does seem like a random policy. I don't think I'd mind getting moved from a row with two kids though.

[Demonpenz]

Doesn't really matter the seat I am still going to jerk off no mater what.

[Setsuna]

LOL I wouldn't have moved either. That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

[Brock]

LOL I wouldn't have moved either. That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Yeah, you would.

[Omaha]

ErrMcGirrd!

ROFL

[Chiefnj2]

It seems that there would be more liability for the airline to move passengers than if they just left it as what you booked.

[DiaperBoy27]

Personally, I don’t see much difference between preventative measures like this and, say…DUI laws, other than this policy lacks the proper research to prove that men are more likely to molest boys, and there is no “breathalyzer” to indicate how likely a person is to molest someone.

Can driving drunk kill someone? Yes. Can a child molester ruin a person’s life? Yes. Are DUI laws and this policy both casting a wide net in the hopes that it prevents harm before it happens? Yes.

[penguinz]

Personally, I don’t see much difference between preventative measures like this and, say…DUI laws, other than this policy lacks the proper research to prove that men are more likely to molest boys, and there is no “breathalyzer” to indicate how likely a person is to molest someone.

Can driving drunk kill someone? Yes. Can a child molester ruin a person’s life? Yes. Are DUI laws and this policy both casting a wide net in the hopes that it prevents harm before it happens? Yes.Your and idiot.

[Setsuna]

Yeah, you would.
Nah, I'm Superman



Personally, I don’t see much difference between preventative measures like this and, say…DUI laws, other than this policy lacks the proper research to prove that men are more likely to molest boys, and there is no “breathalyzer” to indicate how likely a person is to molest someone.

Can driving drunk kill someone? Yes. Can a child molester ruin a person’s life? Yes. Are DUI laws and this policy both casting a wide net in the hopes that it prevents harm before it happens? Yes.
Honestly there have been more reports of women doing sexual acts with underage boys than men, so I think that policy needs to change.

[Rain Man]

It does seem like a random policy. I don't think I'd mind getting moved from a row with two kids though.

Actually, that's a good point. Now that you mention it, if I was in a row next to an unaccompanied child I might summon the stewardess and recite statistics on male pedophiles until they moved me.

[blaise]

Personally, I don’t see much difference between preventative measures like this and, say…DUI laws, other than this policy lacks the proper research to prove that men are more likely to molest boys, and there is no “breathalyzer” to indicate how likely a person is to molest someone.

Can driving drunk kill someone? Yes. Can a child molester ruin a person’s life? Yes. Are DUI laws and this policy both casting a wide net in the hopes that it prevents harm before it happens? Yes.

um

[trndobrd]

This is a stupid policy. Heck, back in the day, they would just take the kid up the cockpit.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n2A194yTWoQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rain Man]

Personally, I don’t see much difference between preventative measures like this and, say…DUI laws, other than this policy lacks the proper research to prove that men are more likely to molest boys, and there is no “breathalyzer” to indicate how likely a person is to molest someone.

Can driving drunk kill someone? Yes. Can a child molester ruin a person’s life? Yes. Are DUI laws and this policy both casting a wide net in the hopes that it prevents harm before it happens? Yes.


It might be the same if the man was carrying handcuffs, viagra, and chloroform, and was wearing out of style glasses.

[Garcia Bronco]

I see somebody has never read the terms of service.

It's discrimination...and it's a civil matter were it to take place in the US.

[Lumpy]

Why didn't they just ask the kids to move?

[Chief Gump]

It's discrimination...and it's a civil matter were it to take place in the US.

Oh dear god, Rosa Parks disagrees. The dude had to move over a seat. Kinda weird they did it but JFC, I think the guy will survive.

[Frosty]

Actually, it would be a smart move for the guy to move anyway, for his own "safety". A false accusation by one of the kids and the guy is screwed.

[Tombstone RJ]

it's a bs policy. It assumes guilt based on one thing, the gender of the adult passenger. As others have mentioned, if they are going to do this (it's all for the children, think of the damn children) then at least compensate the passenger by either refunding his money for the flight, or moving him to first class.

That's the least they can do for humiliating a person.

[KChiefer]

Complimentary Wet Nurses?

[blaise]

It's not like the guy suffered damages. Give me a break. It's a dumb policy, but if someone made a scene on a plane over it they'd be a kook.

[Garcia Bronco]

Oh dear god, Rosa Parks disagrees. The dude had to move over a seat. Kinda weird they did it but JFC, I think the guy will survive.

It's the principle and he denotes it in his account....made to feel like a criminal based on gender. It's discrimination...especially when they don't know the background of the individual they are placing in his seat.

[MagicHef]

Actually, that's a good point. Now that you mention it, if I was in a row next to an unaccompanied child I might summon the stewardess and recite statistics on male pedophiles until they moved me.

You might not like where they'd move you, though.

[Brock]

It's discrimination...and it's a civil matter were it to take place in the US.

They can kick you off of that plane for any reason or for no reason.

[Tombstone RJ]

It's not like the guy suffered damages. Give me a break. It's a dumb policy, but if someone made a scene on a plane over it they'd be a kook.

The guy felt publically humiliated and I have to say, I'd feel the same way in the same situation. "Excuse me sir, you are going to have to move because well, we don't want a pedofile sitting next to these precious kids."

Hey, whatever. Now move me to first class or compensate me for making me out to be a pedofile. If you are going to judge me without any evidence then compensate me as well. That is the least they can do.

[Garcia Bronco]

They can kick you off of that plane for any reason or for no reason.

Maybe in that moment, but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for their actions. It's be for a jury to decide.

[Brock]

Maybe in that moment, but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for their actions. It's be for a jury to decide.

You'll lose. You agreed to it when you bought the ticket.

[Garcia Bronco]

You'll lose. You agreed to it when you bought the ticket.

No. I did not agree to be accused of being a pedophile.

[Setsuna]

It's not like the guy suffered damages. Give me a break. It's a dumb policy, but if someone made a scene on a plane over it they'd be a kook.
For all you know, he was about to get laid, until the chick saw him being moved away from children like a predator. Instead he had to fap himself to sleep. Your and idiot.

[Brock]

No. I did not agree to be accused of being a pedophile.

You agreed to do whatever they tell you as soon as you board the plane.

[KChiefer]

It's not like the guy suffered damages. Give me a break. It's a dumb policy, but if someone made a scene on a plane over it they'd be a kook.

Make a scene? Only if I've had too many overpriced flight drinks. But what if someone said you had to wait for your bus a block down the street because this stop is next to a playground and you might be a diddler? You may just want to tell them to "go [do something] to themselves."

[Garcia Bronco]

You agreed to do whatever they tell you as soon as you board the plane.


No I didn't, nor did anyone else.

[ModSocks]

Did they make sure that the female they put in his place wasn't a teacher?

HRMMMM?

Bet you didn't have that one covered, did ya Virgin Airlines.

[Tombstone RJ]

You agreed to do whatever they tell you as soon as you board the plane.

so, by your screwy logic, if they tell you to drink urine and eat dog crap, you are obligated to do this because, well, you bought the ticket?

[BoneKrusher]

the dude must have looked like Jerry Sandusky.

[AndChiefs]

so, by your screwy logic, if they tell you to drink urine and eat dog crap, you are obligated to do this because, well, you bought the ticket?

As someone who flies a lot...I think they already do that.

[InChiefsHeaven]

so, by your screwy logic, if they tell you to drink urine and eat dog crap, you are obligated to do this because, well, you bought the ticket?

no, that would just be silly...ROFL

[Garcia Bronco]

so, by your screwy logic, if they tell you to drink urine and eat dog crap, you are obligated to do this because, well, you bought the ticket?

Exactly...South Park did a "lovely" episode about this very issue....regarding Apples' iTunes EULA. If you haven't seen it...I recommend it. Not for the children though unless you think it's okay for yours.

[Tombstone RJ]

As someone who flies a lot...I think they already do that.

ROFL Touche!

[007]

The least they could do is provide a seat upgrade in this instance since they "normally try to keep that seat empty, but couldn't in this instance." Considering those are assigned seats there might have been a reason he picked that seat.

[allen_kcCard]

Excuse me mr. african american, we are going to have to ask you to move because this fellow next to you is jewish and he just empied out his matress so he has a lot of cash on him right now. We have a catholic priest next to some minors that wil be changing places with you. Ahh, hello irishman across the isle, you do know you will be on a strict in-flight drink limit, yes?

[saphojunkie]

You agreed to do whatever they tell you as soon as you board the plane.

http://www.flyersrights.org/legislation.php

[Garcia Bronco]

Excuse me mr. african american, we are going to have to ask you to move because this fellow next to you is jewish and he just empied out his matress so he has a lot of cash on him right now. We have a catholic priest next to some minors that wil be changing places with you. Ahh, hello irishman across the isle, you do know you will be on a strict in-flight drink limit, yes?

Exactly.

[Rain Man]

If you don't want pedophiles on your plane, perhaps you shouldn't name it "Virgin Airlines".

[blaise]

Make a scene? Only if I've had too many overpriced flight drinks. But what if someone said you had to wait for your bus a block down the street because this stop is next to a playground and you might be a diddler? You may just want to tell them to "go [do something] to themselves."

Ok, sure, what if. That's not what happened here though.

[saphojunkie]

If you don't want pedophiles on your plane, perhaps you shouldn't name it "Virgin Airlines".

Nailed it.

[ModSocks]

the dude must have looked like Jerry Sandusky.

This was my initial reaction. I assumed he looked like some weird, fat sweaty mouth breather.

[blaise]

Maybe in that moment, but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for their actions. It's be for a jury to decide.

A jury? What's he going to sue for, his momentary embarassment?

[Setsuna]

This was my initial reaction. I assumed he looked like some weird, fat sweaty mouth breather.

Half the male population?

[Garcia Bronco]

A jury? What's he going to sue for, his momentary embarassment?

There are all kinds of things. Mainly libel

[blaise]

There are all kinds of things. Mainly libel

Libel? His reputation suffered from a false accusation? No one made a false statement about him and I doubt anyone on the plane knew who he was.

[lcarus]

He was just about to make those kids part of the mile high club. What a waste.

[Tombstone RJ]

Half the male population?

what does the other half look like?

[Rain Man]

what does the other half look like?

Not sweaty. It's the half that live in more northern latitudes.

[Tombstone RJ]

Libel? His reputation suffered from a false accusation? No one made a false statement about him and I doubt anyone on the plane knew who he was.

the very fact he was moved WAS a public statement. It made him out to be a pedophile.

[blaise]

the very fact he was moved WAS a public statement. It made him out to be a pedophile.

No, not really. It made out that he moved seats. I doubt most people even noticed and if they did they probably just thought he was in the wrong seat, or the airline wanted to move seating arrangements for one reason or another like they do all the time.

[Nickel D]

Virgin Australia obviously hasn't yet heard of female teachers gettin' it on with minors.

I seriously doubt VA did a comprehensive background check on the female that they did put in that seat, so for all we collectively know, she very well could have been a previously-convicted child molester.

[Tombstone RJ]

No, not really. It made out that he moved seats. I doubt most people even noticed and if they did they probably just thought he was in the wrong seat, or the airline wanted to move seating arrangements for one reason or another like they do all the time.

I take it you didn't even read the article. Here's what McGirr says: “As I collected my things from the seat pocket I could see people looking at me and wondering why I was being moved. I was red from embarrassment. I felt like I was being judged and found guilty of a crime I hadn’t committed. It was an uncomfortable situation and I felt ashamed which was a weird feeling because I hadn’t done anything wrong.”

Obviously he felt humiliated enough to write the airlines about it.

[Tombstone RJ]

Virgin Australia obviously hasn't yet heard of female teachers gettin' it on with minors.

I seriously doubt VA did a comprehensive background check on the female that they did put in that seat, so for all we collectively know, she very well could have been a previously-convicted child molester.

exactly. It's classic case of guilt by association. Again, if VA is going to do this, they need to compensate the passengers accordingly. Either that or have a special section of the airplane just for precious kids who are traveling alone.

[blaise]

I take it you didn't even read the article. Here's what McGirr says “As I collected my things from the seat pocket I could see people looking at me and wondering why I was being moved. I was red from embarrassment. I felt like I was being judged and found guilty of a crime I hadn’t committed. It was an uncomfortable situation and I felt ashamed which was a weird feeling because I hadn’t done anything wrong.”:

Obviously he felt humiliated enough to write the airlines about it.

Yeah, I read it. No one called him a pedophile and most reasonable people seeing a guy changing seats wouldn't think he was a pedophile. Being embarassed doesn't mean your reputation suffered damage because of libel. Not unless the flight attendant wrote, "this guy is a child molestor" on a sign and held it up in front of the other passengers.

[blaise]

exactly. It's classic case of guilt by association. Again, if VA is going to do this, they need to compensate the passengers accordingly. Either that or have a special section of the airplane just for precious kids who are traveling alone.

Compensate for being asked to change seats? What would be fair compensation for that? $6?

[Garcia Bronco]

No, not really. It made out that he moved seats. I doubt most people even noticed and if they did they probably just thought he was in the wrong seat, or the airline wanted to move seating arrangements for one reason or another like they do all the time.

Where did the flight attendant explain to him why he was being moved? In the bathroom...the conference room? Good grief. I don't like being litigious either, but sometimes you have to stand up for your principles.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Tombstone RJ]

Yeah, I read it. No one called him a pedophile and most reasonable people seeing a guy changing seats wouldn't think he was a pedophile. Being embarassed doesn't mean your reputation suffered damage because of libel. Not unless the flight attendant wrote, "this guy is a child molestor" on a sign and held it up in front of the other passengers.

Please explain to me why McGirr was moved. I'd like to hear this from your perspective please.

[Garcia Bronco]

Compensate for being asked to change seats? What would be fair compensation for that? $6?

No, but a free flight somewhere or an upgrade is perfectly reasonable and done all the time.

[Setsuna]

Those were probably blaise's kids.

[Tombstone RJ]

Compensate for being asked to change seats? What would be fair compensation for that? $6?

If you are going to convict someone of a crime, with no proof, with nothing but guilt by association, you should at least compensate them financially for their humiliation. Refund the $ for the flight or upgrade to first class or give them another free flight to use at a future time.

[mdchiefsfan]

If you don't want pedophiles on your plane, perhaps you shouldn't name it "Virgin Airlines".

ROFL

[blaise]

Where did the flight attendant explain to him why he was being moved? In the bathroom...the conference room? Good grief. I don't like being litigious either, but sometimes you have to stand up for your principles.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

It's not libel, it's not slander and if someone tried to take this to court they'd get nothing more than a scolding from a judge. The appropriate thing to do would be basically what the guy did. Complain about the policy, because it doesn't make sense.

[blaise]

If you are going to convict someone of a crime, with no proof, with nothing but guilt by association, you should at least compensate them financially for their humiliation. Refund the $ for the flight or upgrade to first class or give them another free flight to use at a future time.

He wasn't convicted of anything. People get asked to move all the time.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's not libel

It is. They are impling that he's in fact a pedophile. Otherwise there would be no reason to move him. It's defamation of character and in the US it's a civil matter.

[durtyrute]

They must have found out how much time he was spending in the "Add three words" thread.

[blaise]

It is. They are impling that he's in fact a pedophile. Otherwise there would be no reason to move him. It's defamation of character and in the US it's a civil matter.

It's for sure not libel. It's not defamation either. He suffered no damages to his reputation.

[vailpass]

Flight Attendant:
Sir, we have two young unaccompanied minors in your row. Our policy is to not have them sit by adult males in the interest of their safety and the peace of mind of their parents. Would you mind sitting over here?

Reasonable Man:
I understand. What seats are available for me to choose from?

[demonhero]

No biggie, and he has no case to sue.

[Frazod]

Personally I would have asked to be moved, just because I wouldn't want to sit next to two unsupervised brats on a long flight.

But this policy is ridiculous. Are we so far gone as a society that an airline has to assume as a base position that a single man must be a fucking homosexual child rapist? :shake:

[Tombstone RJ]

It's for sure not libel. It's not defamation either. He suffered no damages to his reputation.

Please see post #73, I'd love to know your answer to this question.

[Start Croyle]

I used to live in a duplex in a subdivision with a few families that had children. The houses were arranged in a circle with a little island in the middle with some trees, a walkway, etc. It's a pretty common arrangement.
A lot of the kids would sometimes play in this area.

When my parents came to visit for the first time, I decided to stand outside to make sure they wouldn't miss it. It was a very nice day in late summer and so I was standing out by my car, which was parked on the curb of the 'island.'

After about 5 minutes, some guy came out of his house and asked who I was and why I was standing there. He told me how he was concerned about protecting his kids, blah blah blah, and how I looked strange to be standing around. Then his wife came out and joined him and told me basically the same thing.

About five months later, my car was parked in the same place and I was cleaning out some of the old papers and crap that I had collected in it. I was also on the phone a lot and so I would lean against the car while talking. The next morning, there was a hand-written note on the windshield of the car. It said something like 'To the idiot who can't stop looking at kids: The whole neighborhood has been watching you for a long time and is aware of your strange activities. Do not ever approach a child. I have a gun and will not hesitate to use it on you.'

[Tombstone RJ]

He wasn't convicted of anything. People get asked to move all the time.

Yes, he was. Why do the people get asked to move? Give me some examples.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's for sure not libel. It's not defamation either. He suffered no damages to his reputation.

There is where I would disagree.

[Rain Man]

I used to live in a duplex in a subdivision with a few families that had children. The houses were arranged in a circle with a little island in the middle with some trees, a walkway, etc. It's a pretty common arrangement.
A lot of the kids would sometimes play in this area.

When my parents came to visit for the first time, I decided to stand outside to make sure they wouldn't miss it. It was a very nice day in late summer and so I was standing out by my car, which was parked on the curb of the 'island.'

After about 5 minutes, some guy came out of his house and asked who I was and why I was standing there. He told me how he was concerned about protecting his kids, blah blah blah, and how I looked strange to be standing around. Then his wife came out and joined him and told me basically the same thing.

About five months later, my car was parked in the same place and I was cleaning out some of the old papers and crap that I had collected in it. I was also on the phone a lot and so I would lean against the car while talking. The next morning, there was a hand-written note on the windshield of the car. It said something like 'To the idiot who can't stop looking at kids: The whole neighborhood has been watching you for a long time and is aware of your strange activities. Do not ever approach a child. I have a gun and will not hesitate to use it on you.'

Are you kidding?

[blaise]

Please see post #73, I'd love to know your answer to this question.

Maybe from their experience unaccompanied children feel more comfortable with a female next to them. Maybe they feel the children are less likely to cry with a female. Maybe in instances when the children have cried they found a female gave them more comfort. I would assume all of those things before I assumed they did it because they feared a dude would try to have sex with them, but that's just me. I guess my mind doesn't go directly to pedophelia.

[Garcia Bronco]

Maybe from their experience unaccompanied children feel more comfortable with a female next to them. Maybe they feel the children are less likely to cry with a female. Maybe in instances when the children have cried they found a female gave them more comfort. I would assume all of those things before I assumed they did it because they feared a dude would try to have sex with them, but that's just me. I guess my mind doesn't go directly to pedophelia.

But that's not what the airline policy says. It says "for their saftey".

[blaise]

Yes, he was. Why do the people get asked to move? Give me some examples.

People get asked to move because when they book their flight they can't get seating arrangements near one anoother, and so they approach a flight attendant at the beginning of the flight and ask for the flight attendant to help them move around. It happens all the time, especially with kids. I've done it. My mom flew with my sons last week and did it.

[Al Bundy]

Move me to first class and I go with no complaints.

[blaise]

But that's not what the airline policy says. It says "for their saftey".

So?

[vailpass]

People get asked to move because when they book their flight they can't get seating arrangements near one anoother, and so they approach a flight attendant at the beginning of the flight and ask for the flight attendant to help them move around. It happens all the time, especially with kids. I've done it. My mom flew with my sons last week and did it.

Yep. And if you are traveling alone and won't move to accommodate kids you are an absolute asshole.

[Start Croyle]

Now I am thinking a little deeper about the policy and it makes sense! They have to consider the legal risk. Ie, if they allowed this seating arrangement and the guy makes a move on the kids, they probably be sued for tons of money. It is a liability. It is the airline's safety at risk. So they are much better off to just move the guy, whether he actually looks dangerous or not.

[blaise]

There is where I would disagree.

Well, good luck to him and his lawsuit I guess. Maybe with his winnings he can buy some self confidence, because if this is all it took for him to be humilated then he seems pretty soft.

[Setsuna]

Maybe from their experience unaccompanied children feel more comfortable with a female next to them. Maybe they feel the children are less likely to cry with a female. Maybe in instances when the children have cried they found a female gave them more comfort. I would assume all of those things before I assumed they did it because they feared a dude would try to have sex with them, but that's just me. I guess my mind doesn't go directly to pedophelia.

LOLwhut? I don't want some **** trying to console my children if they don't know her. Screw that. And fuck the language filter. My word started with a 'c' and ended with a 't'

[Rain Man]

Now I am thinking a little deeper about the policy and it makes sense! They have to consider the legal risk. Ie, if they allowed this seating arrangement and the guy makes a move on the kids, they probably be sued for tons of money. It is a liability. It is the airline's safety at risk. So they are much better off to just move the guy, whether he actually looks dangerous or not.

Then they should make the unaccompanied minor(s) buy a row of seats.

[Brock]

I take it you didn't even read the article. Here's what McGirr says: “As I collected my things from the seat pocket I could see people looking at me and wondering why I was being moved. I was red from embarrassment. I felt like I was being judged and found guilty of a crime I hadn’t committed. It was an uncomfortable situation and I felt ashamed which was a weird feeling because I hadn’t done anything wrong.”

Obviously he felt humiliated enough to write the airlines about it.

That's idiotic. Clearly this guy has a very inflated opinion of how much thought his fellow passengers devoted to him. His feeling embarrassed and ashamed came from inside himself, not from anything the airline or his fellow passengers did.

[Tombstone RJ]

People get asked to move because when they book their flight they can't get seating arrangements near one anoother, and so they approach a flight attendant at the beginning of the flight and ask for the flight attendant to help them move around. It happens all the time, especially with kids. I've done it. My mom flew with my sons last week and did it.

That's completely different. That is the passenger asking to be moved. Really, that is not the same thing at all.

[blaise]

LOLwhut? I don't want some **** trying to console my children if they don't know her. Screw that. And **** the language filter. My word started with a 'c' and ended with a 't'

I didn't say she'd console them.

[Setsuna]

Now I am thinking a little deeper about the policy and it makes sense! They have to consider the legal risk. Ie, if they allowed this seating arrangement and the guy makes a move on the kids, they probably be sued for tons of money. It is a liability. It is the airline's safety at risk. So they are much better off to just move the guy, whether he actually looks dangerous or not.

And if a female makes a move on the children then they are in the same position. GASP! Useless policy.

[Tombstone RJ]

That's idiotic. Clearly this guy has a very inflated opinion of how much thought his fellow passengers devoted to him. His feeling embarrassed and ashamed came from inside himself, not from anything the airline or his fellow passengers did.

Clearly, you are making a gross assumption for which you have absolutely no evidence.

[blaise]

That's completely different. That is the passenger asking to be moved. Really, that is not the same thing at all.

yeah, it's the same. They walk up to a passenger and ask him to change seats.

[blaise]

Clearly, you are making a gross assumption for which you have absolutely no evidence.

I'm going to be perfectly honest here. You don't seem tremendously bright.

[Brock]

http://www.flyersrights.org/legislation.php

What do you think that means?

[007]

Yep. And if you are traveling alone and won't move to accommodate kids you are an absolute asshole.

If someone paid to have an aisle seat and they ask them to move to a non aisle seat that will be a problem. I know if I paid for an aisle seat it would be. That doesn't make anyone an asshole.

I'm not referring to this particular instance, just using this as an example.

Oh, and I friggin hate the people that ask flight attendants to play musical chairs because they couldn't book their flight early enough to sit together. Half the time they wait until they can get the cheapest seats which is usually when the seats are spread all over in singles, then they expect everyone to accommodate them. You picked your seat. Sit it it.

[Brock]

Clearly, you are making a gross assumption for which you have absolutely no evidence.

So is the guy this happened to. he sounds like a giant crybaby.

[vailpass]

And if a female makes a move on the children then they are in the same position. GASP! Useless policy.

Pedophile statistics bear out the likelihood that it will be a man, not a woman, and by a very large margin.

I take a state mandated child abuse avoidance course each year. The first thing you learn is there should never be just one adult with a group of children, always at least 2. For the safety of the kids and the protection of the adults.

This passenger is whining because he is thinking about himself and not the kids.

[blaise]

So is the guy this happened to. he sounds like a giant crybaby.

He must get humiliated like 12 times a day if this is all it takes.

[Rain Man]

As an aside, I get annoyed when people ask to switch seats so they can sit next to their buddy, and then it turns out that they're asking to get out of a middle seat. If it's a parallel exchange, fine. I'll move from my aisle seat to another aisle seat. But if you're asking me to give up my aisle seat for a middle seat, just so you can sit next to your friend on a two-hour flight, no dice. Make friends with the people next to you.

[Brock]

If someone paid to have an aisle seat and they ask them to move to a non aisle seat that will be a problem. I know if I paid for an aisle seat it would be. That doesn't make anyone an asshole.

I'm not referring to this particular instance, just using this as an example.

Oh, and I friggin hate the people that ask flight attendants to play musical chairs because they couldn't book their flight early enough to sit together. Half the time they wait until they can get the cheapest seats which is usually when the seats are spread all over in singles, then they expect everyone to accommodate them. You picked your seat. Sit it it.

LOL. You paid for a seat. Just because you picked it on travelocity doesn't guarantee you will get that seat.

Seriously, some of you sound like you're not very travel savvy.

[Setsuna]

I didn't say she'd console them.

I know what you are getting at. A female figure evokes safety to an extent. I get it, I do. I'm all for protecting children. But Blaise, it has gotten so bad now, that I have essentially become estranged from my own nephews and children in general that if I show any kind of emotion towards them, I feel like people will look at me in a demeaning way. I honestly hope to God that if I have my own children I won't be so damaged that I keep them at arms length.

[Brock]

He must get humiliated like 12 times a day if this is all it takes.

STOP LOOKING AT ME!

[PornChief]

I remember this from 2 weeks ago or something. Would have been bigger news if the dude was gay but whatever, what he was actually pissed about is the attendant saying to another passenger they're moving him cause he's not allowed to sit next to kids, which might make one believe he's some kind of sex offender.
But anyway seems the world has pedos on the brain these days. I was at this shopping centre and this little kid fell out of one of those ride things and started bawling, and since i was just standing there I reached down and put him on his feet asking if he's ok saying you're a big boy don't cry where's mummy or some bullshit.
Anyway his mother who was about 50 feet away buying some food came over and gave me the eye like I was about to eat the little fucker. I learned my lesson, next time there's some kid crying on the floor I'm moving right along.

[Rain Man]

Guru beat me to the punch on the aisle/middle thing.

[vailpass]

If someone paid to have an aisle seat and they ask them to move to a non aisle seat that will be a problem. I know if I paid for an aisle seat it would be. That doesn't make anyone an asshole.

I'm not referring to this particular instance, just using this as an example.

Oh, and I friggin hate the people that ask flight attendants to play musical chairs because they couldn't book their flight early enough to sit together. Half the time they wait until they can get the cheapest seats which is usually when the seats are spread all over in singles, then they expect everyone to accommodate them. You picked your seat. Sit it it.

No question. I'm an aisle flyer and don't like to sit anywhere else. I'd calmly request another aisle seat or a window in a big chair if I wasn't already sitting up front. If neither were available I'd work it out with the attendant. They will make things good for you if you don't act the dick.

Airlines don't release all seats until the day of travel, especially exit rows. When booking flights passengers are often told "I can't get you seated together now but when you are checking in for you flight ask the gate attendant to switch your seats."
Happens all the time.

[Tombstone RJ]

Maybe from their experience unaccompanied children feel more comfortable with a female next to them. Maybe they feel the children are less likely to cry with a female. Maybe in instances when the children have cried they found a female gave them more comfort. I would assume all of those things before I assumed they did it because they feared a dude would try to have sex with them, but that's just me. I guess my mind doesn't go directly to pedophelia.

None of those reasons are why they moved McGirr. None. Again, they moved him based on two conditions: 1. McGirr is a male and 2. the children were sitting alone next to him.

ergo, McGill is a pedophile so they moved him.

[Brock]

I know what you are getting at. A female figure evokes safety to an extent. I get it, I do. I'm all for protecting children. But Blaise, it has gotten so bad now, that I have essentially become estranged from my own nephews and children in general that if I show any kind of emotion towards them, I feel like people will look at me in a demeaning way. I honestly hope to God that if I have my own children I won't be so damaged that I keep them at arms length.

Don't worry, you'll grow out of whatever this is someday.

[vailpass]

None of those reasons are why they moved McGirr. None. Again, they moved him based on two conditions: 1. McGirr is a male and 2. the children were sitting alone next to him.

ergo, McGill is a pedophile so they moved him.

No. Statistics say the risk of a pedophile being present go's way way way up when the person in question is a male. The specific individual was accused of nothing. People need to grow up and act right.

[Rain Man]

I remember this from 2 weeks ago or something. Would have been bigger news if the dude was gay but whatever, what he was actually pissed about is the attendant saying to another passenger they're moving him cause he's not allowed to sit next to kids, which might make one believe he's some kind of sex offender.
But anyway seems the world has pedos on the brain these days. I was at this shopping centre and this little kid fell out of one of those ride things and started bawling, and since i was just standing there I reached down and put him on his feet asking if he's ok saying you're a big boy don't cry where's mummy or some bullshit.
Anyway his mother who was about 50 feet away buying some food came over and gave me the eye like I was about to eat the little ****er. I learned my lesson, next time there's some kid crying on the floor I'm moving right along.

You weren't wearing a shirt that said "Pornchief" on the back, were you?

I think I put up a thread about this a while back, but I was sitting in the mall once when I saw a lost toddler (female, if that matters). I watched her for a few minutes and it was clear that she was lost, and I finally went over to the teenage girl at Cinnabun and said, "That's a lost child. Can you call security?" I then had her go over with me to secure the child. No way am I going to approach a child in a mall by myself, even to help. It's kind of sad.

[Tombstone RJ]

yeah, it's the same. They walk up to a passenger and ask him to change seats.

No, it's not the same thing. When a family books a flight but cannot sit together and they ask another passenger to move so that they can sit together is totally different.

The passenger who agrees to move is not being assumed to be a pedophile, he OR SHE is simply moving to accommodate a request by another passenger.

ITS NOT BASED ON GENDER AT ALL.

[Setsuna]

Don't worry, you'll grow out of whatever this is someday.

Thanks! :thumb:

[Tombstone RJ]

No. Statistics say the risk of a pedophile being present go's way way way up when the person in question is a male. The specific individual was accused of nothing. People need to grow up and act right.

Is this guilt by association? Yes or no.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm going to be perfectly honest here. You don't seem tremendously bright.

look who's talking. seriously, you are an idiot.

[Garcia Bronco]

Pedophile statistics bear out the likelihood that it will be a man, not a woman, and by a very large margin.

I take a state mandated child abuse avoidance course each year. The first thing you learn is there should never be just one adult with a group of children, always at least 2. For the safety of the kids and the protection of the adults.

This passenger is whining because he is thinking about himself and not the kids.

And criminal statistics show that black males have a greater chance of being a criminal. So I guess we shouldn't let black males anywhere. This is what I call spreadsheet thinking.

However the statistcal probability of McGirr being a pedophile is so low that it's not even in question...where as black american males make up more of the population...so what were you saying again?

[vailpass]

Is this guilt by association? Yes or no.

No guilt was presumed or charges would have been pressed. People need to quit crying every time they think their little feelings got hurt and recognize the bigger picture.

Sure, I'll change seats. Is that my new seat there, the one that gets free drinks the rest of the flight?

Why yes sir, that's exactly your seat.

Perfect then.

[Tombstone RJ]

So is the guy this happened to. he sounds like a giant crybaby.

fair enough, perhaps he is a baby. That does not change the fact that what happened was wrong.

Listen, if VA wants to do this fine. All I'm saying is compensate the passenger for the humiliation of being labeled a pedophile.

Or, have a special area of the plane only for unattended children.

[007]

LOL. You paid for a seat. Just because you picked it on travelocity doesn't guarantee you will get that seat.

Seriously, some of you sound like you're not very travel savvy.

I have never not gotten the seat I paid for. Plus, I get airline tickets through the airline carrier. I don't use those travel sites.

[vailpass]

And criminal statistics show that black males have a greater chance of being a criminal. So I guess we shouldn't let black males anywhere. This is what I call spreadsheet thinking.

However the statistcal probability of McGirr being a pedophile is so low that it's not even in question...where as black american males make up more of the population...so what were you saying again?

LMAO Dude, your logic train is off track here.

[Tombstone RJ]

No guilt was presumed or charges would have been pressed. People need to quit crying every time they think their little feelings got hurt and recognize the bigger picture.

Sure, I'll change seats. Is that my new seat there, the one that gets free drinks the rest of the flight?

Why yes sir, that's exactly your seat.

Perfect then.

Was the passenger moved or not? Yes or no.

[007]

No question. I'm an aisle flyer and don't like to sit anywhere else. I'd calmly request another aisle seat or a window in a big chair if I wasn't already sitting up front. If neither were available I'd work it out with the attendant. They will make things good for you if you don't act the dick.

Airlines don't release all seats until the day of travel, especially exit rows. When booking flights passengers are often told "I can't get you seated together now but when you are checking in for you flight ask the gate attendant to switch your seats."
Happens all the time.

Oh absolutely. I don't mean make a scene, but if they asked me to move to accommodate someone else, I'm going to ask them to do the same for me since I wasn't the one that wanted to move. I go for the aisle seats for a reason.

[Garcia Bronco]

LMAO Dude, your logic train is off track here.

Its not. Further...I am just using your logic so I am not shocked that you aren't following it...because yours is jacked.

[vailpass]

Was the passenger moved or not? Yes or no.

Where were you on the night of October 15, 2003? Airlines can move anyone at anytime they want. You don't own that seat, you bought A seat.

[Brock]

I have never not gotten the seat I paid for. Plus, I get airline tickets through the airline carrier. I don't use those travel sites.

It happens all the time. It doesn't matter who you bought the seat from, they can change it at any time, including after you sat down. You are guaranteed nothing, not even that you're going to get on the plane at all.

[vailpass]

Oh absolutely. I don't mean make a scene, but if they asked me to move to accommodate someone else, I'm going to ask them to do the same for me since I wasn't the one that wanted to move. I go for the aisle seats for a reason.

No fucking question. If it's for kids or elderly I'll do it, otherwise not so much.

[Tombstone RJ]

Where were you on the night of October 15, 2003? Airlines can move anyone at anytime they want. You don't own that seat, you bought A seat.

So, you have forfeited your rights once you board a plane? You are now subject to the whims of the airlines?

[Brock]

So, you have forfeited your rights once you board a plane? You are now subject to the whims of the airlines?

Uh....yeah. You forfeited many of your rights the minute you entered the security line.

[Fish]

so, by your screwy logic, if they tell you to drink urine and eat dog crap, you are obligated to do this because, well, you bought the ticket?

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3839/ptdc03321.jpg

[007]

It happens all the time. It doesn't matter who you bought the seat from, they can change it at any time, including after you sat down. You are guaranteed nothing, not even that you're going to get on the plane at all.

funny, I see people turn down flight attendants asking if they are willing to move all the time. They aren't going to force you to move. They will just move on to someone else.

Like I said, as long as they are willing to work with me, I'll work with them. Remember, I'm not the one that wanted to be moved.

[Tombstone RJ]

Uh....yeah. You forfeited many of your rights the minute you entered the security line.

here, eat some dog shit. Oh, and bend over because you are gonna get screwed in the ass.

hey, it's the airlines, they can do whatever they want, right?

[d3c0y55]

Doesn't really matter the seat I am still going to jerk off no mater what.
LMAO That is what I call funny. On a serious note I think it would be fair enough to be moved because I am around a couple minors. It has to be similar to the people that get moved for not wanting the responsibility of sitting in an emergency exit row.

[Backwards Masking]

Doesn't really matter the seat I am still going to jerk off no mater what.

ROFL

[Brock]

funny, I see people turn down flight attendants asking if they are willing to move all the time. They aren't going to force you to move. They will just move on to someone else.

Like I said, as long as they are willing to work with me, I'll work with them. Remember, I'm not the one that wanted to be moved.

They can move you if they want to. It doesn't matter if you want to work with them or not. They can move you, or they can simply boot you off the plane.

[Brock]

here, eat some dog shit. Oh, and bend over because you are gonna get screwed in the ass.

hey, it's the airlines, they can do whatever they want, right?

Yes, you do have the right to not expect to be assaulted. You do not have the right to that seat, period. I don't know why you're having a tough time understanding that, unless blaise was right and you're kind of dense.

[007]

They can move you if they want to. It doesn't matter if you want to work with them or not. They can move you, or they can simply boot you off the plane.

sure they can. But they don't. You sure like to paint the bleakest picture. They will work with you.

I'm always going to be reasonable if I ever get asked to move but it will have to be for very valid reasons. Just because a family booked late and couldn't sit together is not a valid reason.

In the case of these kids, I would work with them since it is in their policy. I would let them know of my displeasure and probably would write the airline about it as well though. Just because you are a male does not make you a pedophile. And to think a female can't be a pedophile is also laughable. If you are so worried about the welfare of those two kids, put them in first class right next to the attendant.

[Tombstone RJ]

They can move you if they want to. It doesn't matter if you want to work with them or not. They can move you, or they can simply boot you off the plane.

If you are a legitimate security threat, yes, they can do whatever the need to do to protect the plane. However, this situation is different. This guy was not causing anyone any problems.

[JonesCrusher]

It's not like he was going on a camping trip with them. It is a 1 hr 25 min flight.

[Tombstone RJ]

Yes, you do have the right to not expect to be assaulted. You do not have the right to that seat, period. I don't know why you're having a tough time understanding that, unless blaise was right and you're kind of dense.

I'm having a tough time understanding accusing someone of being a threat who has done absolutely nothing wrong. Nothing.

It's different if someone is a problem. However, is someone is not a problem that doesn't give the airline the right to humiliate someone.

[Rain Man]

It seems like the responsibility is in the wrong place. A better solution would be to place the children in a securely locked crate and put them in the baggage area. Or maybe begin providing a stout child chastity belt to parents when they drop their kid off.

[vailpass]

So, you have forfeited your rights once you board a plane? You are now subject to the whims of the airlines?

Have you ever flown? Not being an ass, serious question.
The airlines own those seats, planes. You agree to this when you buy the ticket.

[Bugeater]

I can't think of one good reason why minors should be flying alone.

[vailpass]

If you are a legitimate security threat, yes, they can do whatever the need to do to protect the plane. However, this situation is different. This guy was not causing anyone any problems.

Wanna' know how fast you can be deemed a legit security threat if you refuse to move seats when asked?

[vailpass]

I can't think of one good reason why minors should be flying alone.

Divorced parents living in different states?

[007]

It seems like the responsibility is in the wrong place. A better solution would be to place the children in a securely locked crate and put them in the baggage area. Or maybe begin providing a stout child chastity belt to parents when they drop their kid off.

THISLMAO

[Rain Man]

I can't think of one good reason why minors should be flying alone.

It really is surprising that airlines even allow it. It seems like a lot of liability to absorb, particularly when the alternative is to sell another ticket to a parent. And you know that if one airline did it, they all would, so it's not really a market issue.

[Tombstone RJ]

Have you ever flown? Not being an ass, serious question.
The airlines own those seats, planes. You agree to this when you buy the ticket.

Yes, I have flown quite often. And yes, I will gladly move if I'm asked to move. I'm one of the most polite, quiet people you will ever meet. In fact, I go out of my way NOT to bother people.

However, I just think this whole thing is wrong. I understand VA wants to protect the children but by assuming all men are pedophiles is just silly.

It's profiling at its highest. I mean, it's so ironinc that TSA is told not to profile terrorists so they end up frisking a gray haired old woman in a wheel chair.

However, when it comes to profiling pedofiles, no worries mate.

[Rain Man]

Divorced parents living in different states?

Both of whom are on the no-fly list?

[JonesCrusher]

What about a movie theater? In a packed house should the usher separate all unaccompanied minors from single men to avoid liability?

[Garcia Bronco]

You guys are the ones being dense. Asking him to move isn't the issue. Its the state reason on why they asked him to move.

[007]

Wanna' know how fast you can be deemed a legit security threat if you refuse to move seats when asked?

I've seen plenty of people decline to move and nothing came of it. They just asked another passenger. Matter of fact, they usually just get on the intercom and ask for volunteers to move.

It's all in how you speak to the attendant when they ask most likely. If you act like an ass you will be treated like an ass.

[Rain Man]

What about a movie theater? In a packed house should the usher separate all unaccompanied minors from single men to avoid liability?

And think of the popcorn boxes. That's a much higher risk situation.

[vailpass]

Both of whom are on the no-fly list?

LMAO

[007]

You guys are the ones being dense. Asking him to move isn't the issue. Its the state reason on why they asked him to move.

Plus, I think most people would be happy to move away from two minors that are not their own children. I know I would feel a little odd sitting next to two kids that are not my own.

[vailpass]

Yes, I have flown quite often. And yes, I will gladly move if I'm asked to move. I'm one of the most polite, quite people you will ever meet. In fact, I go out of my way NOT to bother people.

However, I just think this whole thing is wrong. I understand VA wants to protect the children but by assuming all men are pedophiles is just silly.

It's profiling at its highest. I mean, it's so ironinc that TSA is told not to profile terrorists so they end up frisking a gray haired old woman in a wheel chair.

However, when it comes to profiling pedofiles, no worries mate.

Understood. We see this two different ways. Cheers.

[JonesCrusher]

And think of the popcorn boxes. That's a much higher risk situation.

ROFL

[JoeyChuckles]

Scary, had this happened mid-air.

[Garcia Bronco]

Plus, I think most people would be happy to move away from two minors that are not their own children. I know I would feel a little odd sitting next to two kids that are not my own.

I wouldn't care one way or another, but the idea that I have to move because I might be a pedo because of my gender is discrimination.

[Brock]

You guys are the ones being dense. Asking him to move isn't the issue. Its the state reason on why they asked him to move.

I invite you to be the first to take it to court and lose.

[007]

I invite you to be the first to take it to court and lose.

doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is overboard and wrong.

[T-post Tom]

GAME-CHANGER: For the record, the man claims that the flight attendant told another passenger that he wasn't allowed to sit next to minors:

She asked a female passenger, “Can you please sit in this seat because he is not allowed to sit next to minors,” McGirr told The Age.

~ http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/virgin-australia-reviews-minor-policy-after-major-embarra



If Virgin wants to have this as a policy, they should have had the seating arrangements figured out prior to seating the man next to the kids. Looks like Virgin is trying to figure it out:

On the airline’s blog and on Twitter, Virgin Australia said: “We understand the concerns raised around our policy for children traveling alone, a long standing policy initially based on customer feedback.

“In light of recent feedback, we’re now reviewing this policy. Our intention is certainly not to discriminate in any way.”

~ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/08/should-men-sit-next-to-kids-on-airline-flights/

[ClevelandBronco]

Well, yeah. It's Virgin Atlantic, not Under-age Slut Atlantic.

[Just Passin' By]

I invite you to be the first to take it to court and lose.

Despite what you seem to be saying, or implying, passengers do win discrimination suits.

[Inspector]

There are many things to be concerned about when sending your kids anywhere on an airliner, but for me, as a reader of Chiefsplanet, my biggest concern now is that the plane could very well break apart in mid-air.