Teicher: Chiefs are pushing Poe to learn quickly

[Tribal Warfare]

Chiefs are pushing Poe to learn quickly (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/29/3785866/chiefs-are-pushing-poe-to-learn.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star
The initial plan for Chiefs first-round draft pick Dontari Poe was to bring him along slowly. Poe, a largely unproductive collegiate player at Memphis, was to be a situational pass rusher at first while learning the rest of his craft at a more leisurely pace.

The Chiefs may no longer have that luxury. A rash of injuries has suddenly made Poe, a nose tackle, a key figure in their defense, ahead of his time.

Poe will probably start for the first time Thursday in the final preseason game against the Packers in Green Bay. He may also start the regular-season opener on Sept. 9 against Atlanta at Arrowhead Stadium, whether he’s ready or not.

“It’s just another chance for me to show what I’ve got, to show what I’ve learned,’’ Poe said. “I feel I’m learning. I’m getting to the point where I’m grasping the whole concept and I’m starting to show it.’’

The Chiefs were aware when they drafted Poe that he might take some time to adjust to the NFL game. He wasn’t much of a playmaker in college even as the level of competition at Memphis frequently wasn’t the best in college football.

Their hope was to get something from him initially. After getting a look at Poe in offseason practice, the Chiefs decided that would best be as a situational pass rusher.

Poe plays on obvious passing downs, where the Chiefs are hopeful he may be able to cave in the middle of the opposing offensive line and not allow the quarterback to step up and avoid pass rushers like Tamba Hali and Justin Houston.

“Back when we drafted him, I mentioned that he might have more of an impact as a third-down player than a first- and second-down player because the techniques that we use on first and second are so different than what he has been used to,’’ coach Romeo Crennel said. “On third down, they’re more like what he was doing in college. He showed some flashes that he could do some things, particularly in the one-on-one situation, so that’s why we put him there in that pass-rush area.’’

An ankle injury to starting nose tackle Anthony Toribio has moved up the timeline for Poe, at least for now. Poe was the starter in practice this week.

“I don’t think I alter the expectations,’’ Crennel said. “You give him the reps and you give him the practice time to try to get him where you need him to be. Then I think that the young man is a conscientious young man. He wants to do well. He wants to help this team win. I think that he will do everything he can to do that.

“I’m asking him to be the most efficient nose tackle that he can be. If he can be that, he will help the team win. All of a sudden, I’m not asking him to rev up with what he’s doing or cut back anything he’s doing. I want him to play the technique the way it needs to be played. He’s still learning how to play the technique, so if he continues to learn and continues to perform, then I think he will be an effective player for us.”

Whether trying to take some pressure off Poe or attempting to motivate him, Crennel during training camp said Poe was a long way from being ready to start. That still looked to be the case in last week’s game against Seattle.

Poe had a difficult matchup against Seahawks center Max Unger, a tough player who frequently got the best of him.

“He’s making progress, but he’s still that rookie that reverts back to what he knows at times, and he forgets how to remember how we want to do it,’’ Crennel said. “I know there was one play in the game, he was in good position on the block, and then he ended up jumping off the block. He thought that he could make the play, and that opened up a hole. You have to point those out to him and get him to correct it. He’s a conscientious student, so I think he will get it corrected.”

It’s important to the Chiefs that Poe get it corrected sooner rather than later. Poe said it would happen.

“It’s never easy, but there’s been a lot of learning going on,’’ Poe said. “It’s been a large learning curve, but everybody around here has been on my side and trying to help me out any way they can, so it’s been good for me.

“Coming in, I was a little wet behind the ears, but now I’m getting used to it. It takes time, but I’ve got to get it as soon as I can. It’s not impossible to learn.’’

[O.city]

He has seemed to slowly get better from game to game so far. Not much to go on though.

[Tribal Warfare]

He has seemed to slowly get better from game to game so far. Not much to go on though.

IMO, It seems like Romeo is attempting to mold him into a Casey Hampton type. Talking about two gap technique and holding onto multiple blockers.

[O.city]

I would't be upset with that, but I would like him to be a better pass rusher.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Get it done big man.

[petegz28]

His problem is he has to think about what he is being taught and that will slow his game, of course. His physical talent may be able to offset that at times but if he can get into some situations where he doesn't have to think about it so much I think he will beast. We saw him get pushed around some, sure but we also saw him dominate on some plays as well.

[O.city]

Is Toribio hurt that bad?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

He's gotten some damn good pressure in limited opportunities rushing the passer.

[O.city]

For games against QB's that aren't mobile, he can just bullrush with no abandon. Needs to stay in lanes though.

[Cornstock]

I don't think theres any hurry for him to start. This article didn't even mention Powe, who is playing great it appears. Use Poe situationally and continue to teach him the stuff he needs to improve on for 1st and 2nd down. I don't think many people on here are naive enough to expect him to start during the first 3/4 of the season. I'm not holding my breathe for starting this year at all. Such is the nature of the beast when training NTs, especially in the 2 gap system.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Powe has looked like a beast in base sets. Wouldn't mind him starting with Poe raping in sub packages this year.

[petegz28]

Oh and fuck Techier. He makes it sound like Poe stunk it up in the preseason. If you go back and actually look at the games he didn't do near as bad as Dickwad Teicher makes him out.

[O.city]

I'd almost get in the sub stuff against Atlanta and make them beat me on the ground if I could.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I'd almost get in the sub stuff against Atlanta and make them beat me on the ground if I could.

They tried that against Buffalo in the opener last year....didn't work so well. Make them one dimensional and get after Ryan. Atlanta does tend to abandon the run on the road. Damn, Hali being out makes it tough to pick KC in this one. Need pressure from Poe and Bailey in the subs.

[petegz28]

I'd almost get in the sub stuff against Atlanta and make them beat me on the ground if I could.

I would too. Especially because you know TG is going to be more WR than run blocker. RAC is probably going to play a serious coverage scheme meaning we aren't going to be blitzing much.

Personaly I think we should just come out calling a ton of run blitzes and if it's a pass then fuck up the QB. As much as we need DJ covering TG I think I would have him blitz crazy and force Ryan to check down and throw short passes.

[O.city]

While I like to see blitzing, if you don't get there, which I'd bet for the most part you don't, good Qb's carve you up for big plays.

[O.city]

You don't want to be in a situation where you rely on blitzing to get pressure on the qb. Which, without Hali, the Chiefs will likely have to do, and that could be bad.

[petegz28]

You don't want to be in a situation where you rely on blitzing to get pressure on the qb. Which, without Hali, the Chiefs will likely have to do, and that could be bad.

In a 3-4 I like blitzing. I know that's not the style of 3-4 we play but if you look at last year during the NE game when we came out blitzing a lot we were ****ing up Brady. Palko finally cost us and the D couldn't keep up.

Back to the Falcons, you are just going to have to trust Flowers and Routt to go man-man with little help. I don't know that we have to bracket TG early like we would gates but it won't surprise me so there goes a safety anyway leaving 1 corner on his own.

Point is I'd rather take my chances in having Ryan chuck a ball deep trying to beat a blitz than sitting back in a pocket and letting a deep play develop where he has time to step up. We have to get pressure up the middle. Knock Ryan off his spot and he will rattle.

[O.city]

In a 3-4 I like blitzing. I know that's not the style of 3-4 we play but if you look at last year during the NE game when we came out blitzing a lot we were ****ing up Brady. Palko finally cost us and the D couldn't keep up.

Back to the Falcons, you are just going to have to trust Flowers and Routt to go man-man with little help. I don't know that we have to bracket TG early like we would gates but it won't surprise me so there goes a safety anyway leaving 1 corner on his own.

Point is I'd rather take my chances in having Ryan chuck a ball deep trying to beat a blitz than sitting back in a pocket and letting a deep play develop where he has time to step up. We have to get pressure up the middle. Knock Ryan off his spot and he will rattle.

You are gonna have to get pressure, it's just gonna have to come from different places, with the fewest amount of guys.


I don't want to really take my chances with Ryan chucking it deep to White, that won't end well.

[O.city]

In a 3-4 I like blitzing. I know that's not the style of 3-4 we play but if you look at last year during the NE game when we came out blitzing a lot we were ****ing up Brady. Palko finally cost us and the D couldn't keep up.

Back to the Falcons, you are just going to have to trust Flowers and Routt to go man-man with little help. I don't know that we have to bracket TG early like we would gates but it won't surprise me so there goes a safety anyway leaving 1 corner on his own.

Point is I'd rather take my chances in having Ryan chuck a ball deep trying to beat a blitz than sitting back in a pocket and letting a deep play develop where he has time to step up. We have to get pressure up the middle. Knock Ryan off his spot and he will rattle.

And the Pats game is a perfect example. We kept blitzing, but when we didn't get there, Brady carved us up. We continued to blitz as well, which he adjusted to and made good throws.

[Cornstock]

I just hope Houston can fill in for Hali. His weak spot is in coverage anyways so I don't see them asking him to do a lot of that. I'm interested to see if we can get some good pass rush out of Bailey on 3rd down as well. I imagine it will be the coverage that will be our weak spot if Flowers is gone more than our line not being able to get a rush. Houston is as good of a replacement as you could realistically ask for.

[petegz28]

You are gonna have to get pressure, it's just gonna have to come from different places, with the fewest amount of guys.


I don't want to really take my chances with Ryan chucking it deep to White, that won't end well.

He is going to chuck it deep to White. It's going to happen. So I would rather him just drop back and sling it than have time to set up and give White time to break coverage. A rushed throw favors the defense. The blitz should take away the double moves. We can't ask our defense to cover for 5,6,7 seconds and that's what will happen if we sit back in coverage. I think you have to pull the safteys up tight and sell out on the blitz early and dictate that they are going to have to run to win.

[O.city]

He is going to chuck it deep to White. It's going to happen. So I would rather him just drop back and sling it than have time to set up and give White time to break coverage. A rushed throw favors the defense. The blitz should take away the double moves. We can't ask our defense to cover for 5,6,7 seconds and that's what will happen if we sit back in coverage. I think you have to pull the safteys up tight and sell out on the blitz early and dictate that they are going to have to run to win.

If you do that and you don't get there, you are in trouble. We need to mix it up and keep Ryan guessing.

Best case scenario, we need to get there with 4 guys. However, thats something we haven't ever been able to do.

[petegz28]

And the Pats game is a perfect example. We kept blitzing, but when we didn't get there, Brady carved us up. We continued to blitz as well, which he adjusted to and made good throws.

Had out offense been anything worth a fuck it would have paid off. The D kept us in it for a half with an offense that couldn't do shit. I think this is different. We need to rush Ryan. Make him make quick decisions and quick throws. Make him move around. Don't give him time to scan downfield because even if we drop 8 he will carve it up. It wll take some good disguising of blitzes but that is what it is going to take, blitzes. Force him into some mistakes, get the ball over to Cassel and JC and let them dink and dunk down the field chewing up clock.

[petegz28]

If you do that and you don't get there, you are in trouble. We need to mix it up and keep Ryan guessing.

Best case scenario, we need to get there with 4 guys. However, thats something we haven't ever been able to do.

Getting there isn't necessarily a must. Getting close is a must. Forcing him to throw the ball a little earlier than he wants. Making him throw the ball when the WR still needs that 1 more step to get open. Make him scramble, make him check down, make him start calling hot routes. Force the short throws or make the long throws a lot more risky. Bringing 4 guys is not going to work great for us given our style.

Just run blitz and keep contain. Don't crash down hard on the runs but get in the backfield. Make him feel pressure when there really isn't any.

In other words scheme the fuck out of him.

[thabear04]

Man if we were a 4-3 and Poe and Powe was on the line bull rushing the linemen.

[Ace Gunner]

Based in what I've seen this pre season I'd start Powe at NT and Poe can stay sub rusher.

[royr17]

Man if we were a 4-3 and Poe and Powe was on the line bull rushing the linemen.

With Hali and Houston as the DE's wow is all I can say.

[petegz28]

Based in what I've seen this pre season I'd start Powe at NT and Poe can stay sub rusher.

They'll rotate I am sure.

[O.city]

Based in what I've seen this pre season I'd start Powe at NT and Poe can stay sub rusher.

Yep.


I didn't think Toribio was hurt that bad. I think he could be the technician at that spot, not necessarily a physical specimen but get the job done.

[O.city]

I like the 34, for OLB in that it allows them to keep oline hands off them a little easier.

[petegz28]

Do the Falcons run a lot of 2-back sets?

[O.city]

Teams are going to start not doubling any of our dlineman if they can't make plays, which is gonna kill our LBer's.



If they start doing that, Dorsey and Jackson are gonna have to make plays.

[BossChief]

The Atlanta games complexion has completely changed without Hali and Flowers not at full strength.

If both were 100% and playing, I would think that how they play will likely dictate the outcome.

As it sits, I'm not at all confident in our ability to create pressure or to effectively cover their receivers.

[Ace Gunner]

I would keep Poe fresh playing only in sub rush packages and Gordon can spell Powe at NT until Toribio returns as starter. I would play Powe as much as he can take. He's still raw, but he is playing with consistent leverage right now. I'd roll with it.

[O.city]

I think Flowers is back by then, just don't know if he will be 100%, but I think he will be closer than some think. He's been out for a while though.


Hali is the killer one.

[O.city]

I'm actually surprised that Smith hasn't been signed back yet.

[Blick]

Just run the center the fuck over, Dontari. You can do it, big fella.

Also, Bailey really needs to step up and fill Gilberry's role as a supplemental pass rusher.

[O.city]

The Gilberry hype around here always got me a little. The guy had a few nice sacks, but overall last year was shit.

[Blick]

The Gilberry hype around here always got me a little. The guy had a few nice sacks, but overall last year was shit.

He was still 3rd on the team in sacks. And 2nd two years ago.

Point still stands that somebody needs to step up...especially if Houston isn't close to a double digit sack guy.

[Ace Gunner]

I think Flowers is back by then, just don't know if he will be 100%, but I think he will be closer than some think. He's been out for a while though.


Hali is the killer one.

If Flowers is back peddling, he's going to be ready come game 1. He'll be fine. Hali's absence is critical to this team. I expect Crennel will use blitz techniques in this one.

[O.city]

I'm wanting to wait and see if Flowers starts practicing full next week.

[Rasputin]

Based in what I've seen this pre season I'd start Powe at NT and Poe can stay sub rusher.

Yes with Powe. I was impressed with him with his motor from watching him in preseason last year and just hoping he gets to play more all the time. I didn't think they played him enough last year to get that experience but I'm not coach. J. Powe just seems to have a dominance factor & power base with him.

[Blick]

I think Powe has a swagger to him as well. You can never have enough of that on D.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Ive said it before, our only chance is if we run early successfully.

[Sorter]

IMO, It seems like Romeo is attempting to mold him into a Casey Hampton type. Talking about two gap technique and holding onto multiple blockers.

Uh, Hampton plays for Pittsburgh. 1-gap, fire zone concepts. Not a 2-gap.

[Tribal Warfare]

Uh, Hampton plays for Pittsburgh. 1-gap, fire zone concepts. Not a 2-gap.

Bill Cowher originally ran a two gap when he drafted him.

[Sorter]

Bill Cowher originally ran a two gap when he drafted him.

Yup. However, LeBeau has been there since 04. Hampton drafted in 01. He has spent well past the majority of his time being a 1-gap, penetrating NT for a team that focuses more on fire zone pressures than literally every other team in the NFL with the exception being GB.

[Sorter]

Oh and **** Techier. He makes it sound like Poe stunk it up in the preseason. If you go back and actually look at the games he didn't do near as bad as Dickwad Teicher makes him out.

Well, think about it.

A) Does Techier know anything about football or techniques? No. Does he understand anything in a defensive scheme? No. Does he break down film and evaluate at an even mediocre level? No.

Well, there you go. If you go by what he writes, you're a ****ing moron, IMO. Poe has consistently displayed push in our 2-3-6 pckg and has improved against the run in our base 3-4 odd front.

People that think that the rawest 1st round pick outside of Bruce Irvin was going to come in and have everything down in terms of technique (i.e pad level, footwork, etc) are stupid. He is going to take time to develop. Less time in pass rush technique, which is nice bc we play our 2-3-6 more due to the passing nature of the NFL.

[Coach]

In other words scheme the fuck out of him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/SwedeCarlson/KSU/SchemeDoctor3.jpg

[DTLB58]

I think RAC should have just developed POWE and we could have drafted a LB to replace Belcher.

[Black Bob]

Well, think about it.

A) Does Techier know anything about football or techniques? No. Does he understand anything in a defensive scheme? No. Does he break down film and evaluate at an even mediocre level? No.

Well, there you go. If you go by what he writes, you're a ****ing moron, IMO. Poe has consistently displayed push in our 2-3-6 pckg and has improved against the run in our base 3-4 odd front.

People that think that the rawest 1st round pick outside of Bruce Irvin was going to come in and have everything down in terms of technique (i.e pad level, footwork, etc) are stupid. He is going to take time to develop. Less time in pass rush technique, which is nice bc we play our 2-3-6 more due to the passing nature of the NFL.

Poe has looked better in the preseason than Jackson, Dorsey, Bowe, Albert and Hali imo. He has already shown quite a bit imo. He is making alot of plays.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I want to see Poe, Powe , Toribio, Dorsey and Jackson all line up at the same time !

[Mr. Laz]

For games against QB's that aren't mobile, he can just bullrush with no abandon. Needs to stay in lanes though.
no,no,no,no,no

[Mr. Laz]

I think they should push every draft pick to learn quickly.

[Mr. Laz]

I want to see Poe, Powe , Toribio, Dorsey and Jackson all line up at the same time !
I would like to see a heavy package on run downs ... especially with Hali out.

Poe
Dorsey
Powe
Jackson

[bricks]

I would like to see a heavy package on run downs ... especially with Hali out.

Poe
Dorsey
Powe
Jackson

Thats a lot of beef on the Dline. Not a bad idea. Gonna be tough to block.

[Mr. Laz]

Thats a lot of beef on the Dline. Not a bad idea. Gonna be tough to block.

our linebackers should be able to run completely free with that Dline.

other team should have ZERO inside running game

linebackers free to blitz

[beach tribe]

You notice that Crennel's goal for him is to be the most efficient NOSE TACKLE that he can be.
That IS the ultimate goal. It's gonna take a little while, but his ceiling is limitless.

[beach tribe]

I would like to see a heavy package on run downs ... especially with Hali out.

Poe
Dorsey
Powe
Jackson

Sick. I'm surprised that Crennel hasn't been experimenting with a hybrid the way he did in New England. Maybe he's waiting for more development from Poe. I don't know.

[Black Bob]

If Flowers is back peddling, he's going to be ready come game 1. He'll be fine. Hali's absence is critical to this team. I expect Crennel will use blitz techniques in this one.

If he goes week one, he will be ready to play. The dude has played hurt alot.

I think RAC should have just developed POWE and we could have drafted a LB to replace Belcher.

Why replace Belcher? We brought in good competition for him and he won. He has done nothing but get better every year. Also, he's a UFA after this year.

[beach tribe]

If he goes week one, he will be ready to play. The dude has played hurt alot.



Why replace Belcher? We brought in good competition for him and he won. He has done nothing but get better every year. Also, he's a UFA after this year.

Agreed. There was no guarantee that Powe would/or has developed.
NT is an extremely important position on the D. A hell of a lot more important than the "thumper" which is one of the least important. If Any of our NTs become a stud, Belcher will, in turn, look like one.

[Mr. Laz]

If he goes week one, he will be ready to play. The dude has played hurt alot.

Why replace Belcher? We brought in good competition for him and he won. He has done nothing but get better every year. Also, he's a UFA after this year.
oh bullshit

what Silar? A guy who can't stay healthy.

oh wait ... Cory Greenwood!!!! w00t.

[htismaqe]

The dude has played hurt alot.

Which is both good and bad.

It's great he can play through pain but damn the guy gets dinged alot. I would like to see what he could do if he was 100% for a few games in a row.

[ModSocks]

oh bullshit

what Silar? A guy who can't stay healthy.

oh wait ... Cory Greenwood!!!! w00t.

I wish people would get off the damn Siler hype train. The man was a backup in SD. Bringing in a back up LB isn't exactly trying to challenge Belcher for the starting job.

Siler is probably more flat footed in coverage than Belcher is....

[boogblaster]

here we go .....

[Black Bob]

Which is both good and bad.

It's great he can play through pain but damn the guy gets dinged alot. I would like to see what he could do if he was 100% for a few games in a row.

We let the guy who never missed a start go. I hated losing Carr. Oh well, we gotta move on.

You are porbably right about Siler Macho Man. He's been around a long time and isn't much more than a quality back up. I guess I remember the beast he was at Florida. It never really translated to the NFL.

However, I do like Belcher and I think he's underrated. People forget what it was like to have guys like Pat Thomas and Corey Mayes. Those guys sucked. Belcher has gotten better every year and he wears the Mic in our defense. He is extremely valuable to the defense. He is a good tackler and good in pursuit. He struggles in coverage but most MLBs that play his position in the 3-4 do to. I hope to see him grow this year and make some plays. We need him to be a playmaker instead of a "solid player."

[Buckweath]

I think RAC should have just developed POWE and we could have drafted a LB to replace Belcher.
The one player the Chiefs defense needs to become an elite unit, if it is not already, is a star Dlineman.

Every elite defense has at least one dominant Dlineman: 49ers- Smith, Ravens - Ngata, Texans - Watt, Steelers - they have or had Smith and Hampton, Packers - Raji (two years ago that they had a top defense if I remember well)...

Dorsey and Jackson are solid players but they do not compare to the players listed above. If the Chiefs were not to draft a QB, they needed to draft a potentially elite Dlineman and that's what they did.

[RealSNR]

oh bullshit

what Silar? A guy who can't stay healthy.

oh wait ... Cory Greenwood!!!! w00t.

Greenwood plays DJ's position anyway.

[Mr. Laz]

Greenwood plays DJ's position anyway.
so not even him

so who?

[whoman69]

The one player the Chiefs defense needs to become an elite unit, if it is not already, is a star Dlineman.

Every elite defense has at least one dominant Dlineman: 49ers- Smith, Ravens - Ngata, Texans - Watt, Steelers - they have or had Smith and Hampton, Packers - Raji (two years ago that they had a top defense if I remember well)...

Dorsey and Jackson are solid players but they do not compare to the players listed above. If the Chiefs were not to draft a QB, they needed to draft a potentially elite Dlineman and that's what they did.

I thought you were going to espouse us drafting another D-lineman next year.

[xztop12]

I have this bad feeling that Poe's arms might just flat out not be long enough to ever dominate, but what I'm seeing might be poor technique and not a physical flaw