Which was most influential

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The Beatles or Elvis Presley. Debergs prog rock thread started me thinking and I thought it was a fairly easy choice until I talked to a few others about it and looked up some numbers. Now it seems like a toss up... although I know what my original gut feeling was.

The Beatles...
Best selling band in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
22 #1 singles world wide
7 grammys
10 films

Elvis Presley
Best selling solo act in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
36 #1 singles
3 grammys
33 films

Of course there is plenty of other criteria. What say you though?

[LiveSteam]

neither,
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jqxNSvFMkag" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

neither,


So you vote option #4. Got it.

:)

[LiveSteam]

So you vote option #4. Got it.

:)

:thumb: LMAOLMAO

[Baby Lee]

As much as I love Elvis, I'd go with the Beatles.

Elvis had a singular talent for singing, dancing, and being a heart throb.

The Beatles had those as well, with talents for writing, philosophy, longevity and evolution of style in addition.

Elvis revolutionized by bringing rockabilly and gospel to the national stage, but the Beatles blew the music scene to smithereens, and seeped into the national conversation on all fronts, philosophical, political, fashion-wise, etc.

[Reaper16]

The Beatles. Elvis' music was a straight extension of his influences. The Beatles changed the game.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

As much as I love Elvis, I'd go with the Beatles.

Elvis had a singular talent for singing, dancing, and being a heart throb.

The Beatles had those as well, with talents for writing, philosophy, longevity and evolution of style in addition.

Good arguement. Elvis had top hits in rock 'n roll, country, gospel, pop and blues however and his longevity wasn't all that affected even by his death. That's something...

[LiveSteam]

The Beatles. Elvis' music was a straight extension of his influences. The Beatles changed the game.

They did that & then some

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The Beatles. Elvis' music was a straight extension of his influences. The Beatles changed the game.

Yet The Beatles listed Elvis as a main influence.

[BigMeatballDave]

NKOTB

[pimpchief]

Marshall Bruce Mathers III

[BigMeatballDave]

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/2893118.jpg

[007]

none of the above because I didn't like any of them. and no, not making a case for someone else.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

none of the above because I didn't like any of them. and no, not making a case for someone else.

Liking them has nothing to do with the question though.

[Molitoth]

Yet The Beatles listed Elvis as a main influence.

Every artist has an influence.

[AustinChief]

ON THE DAAARKSIDE, OOOOOOH YEAH

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Every artist has an influence.

Of course. I just found it interesting that The Beatles listed Elvis as an influence in regards to Reapers arguement. I'm not disagreeing.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

ON THE DAAARKSIDE, OOOOOOH YEAH

"Tough All Over" is my favorite JCBBB song.

:D

[Reaper16]

Yet The Beatles listed Elvis as a main influence.

You wanna' play the reducitivist game? Then you have to take it back to the forefathers of blues.

[ForeverChiefs58]

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/2893118.jpg

New Edition.

Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike; if I like the girl, who cares who you like.

[Baby Lee]

Good arguement. Elvis had top hits in rock 'n roll, country, gospel, pop and blues however and his longevity wasn't all that affected even by his death. That's something...

When judging influence, I go by depth AND breadth. Elvis has ardent support in a SEGMENT of music and near universal support for that segment of music. THe Beatles has ardent support from an IMMENSE base, from punk to orchestra, from yuppies to today's 10yos. It's undiminished in both depth and breadth over 50+ years.

Outside of a handful of Elvis impersonators, you don't see a lot of people aping his fashion sense, or philosophy, or interior decorating sense, or diet. You don't see Circque du Soleil centering an act around his hits. You don't his catalog breaking Itunes wide open. I could give hundreds of other examples, but I hope my point is clear by now.

[lewdog]

In before 2pac reference.

:facepalm:

[BigMeatballDave]

http://www.gogos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/gogosmailinglist.jpg

[BigMeatballDave]

New Edition.

Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike; if I like the girl, who cares who you like.

Cool it now...

:)

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

You wanna' play the reducitivist game? Then you have to take it back to the forefathers of blues.

I was just making a very small point. I voted Beatles.

[Cornstock]

Jimi Hendrix. If he's not in this conversation than you, good sir, are a moran.

Also Cream aka Clapton.

I'm not sure if they were more influential but they absolutely belong in the conversation.

[BigMeatballDave]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zZrk_4LHcDM/TLCCfJqfADI/AAAAAAAAAy0/lfafuKZ4yCY/s1600/wham!.jpg

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

When judging influence, I go by depth AND breadth. Elvis has ardent support in a SEGMENT of music and near universal support for that segment of music. THe Beatles has ardent support from an IMMENSE base, from punk to orchestra, from yuppies to today's 10yos. It's undiminished in both depth and breadth over 50+ years.

Outside of a handful of Elvis impersonators, you don't see a lot of people aping his fashion sense, or philosophy, or interior decorating sense, or diet. You don't see Circque du Soleil centering an act around his hits. You don't his catalog breaking Itunes wide open. I could give hundreds of other examples, but I hope my point is clear by now.

I wasn't argueing with you, just furthering the debate. I voted Beatles.

[ForeverChiefs58]

I would say Elvis first, then with Beatles maybe later.

[Baby Lee]

I wasn't argueing with you, just furthering the debate. I voted Beatles.

I posted, not in rebuttal, but more in terms of clarification/amplification.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Jimi Hendrix. If he's not in this conversation than you, good sir, are a moran.

Also Cream aka Clapton.

I'm not sure if they were more influential but they absolutely belong in the conversation.

I would never argue Hendrix's influence or that off 100 other artists, including Clapton. The Beatles and Elvis are in a league of their own though through the criteria listed in the OP and many other things though.... imo.

[Baby Lee]

Jimi Hendrix. If he's not in this conversation than you, good sir, are a moran.

Also Cream aka Clapton.

I'm not sure if they were more influential but they absolutely belong in the conversation.

Child please, both are great technicians, but they aren't influences. They extended the zietgiest, but they didn't revolutionize it. No noticeable segment of the population wakes up wanting to dress, create, eat, live, play like them, not on the level of the Beatles and Elvis. Madonna and Lady Gaga are frankly ahead of them on those terms, though they're still behind the big two.

[Cornstock]

I would never argue Hendrix's influence or that off 100 other artists, including Clapton. The Beatles and Elvis are in a league of their own though through the criteria listed in the OP and many other things though.... imo.

The argument has really been worn out on VH1, countless classic rock message boards, and thousands of dorm rooms, so to hold to a point that one is greater than the other is redundant. But as long as there is acknowledgment that these bands were also profoundly influential I'm happy.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

In before 2pac reference.

:facepalm:

LMAO

But... but... he revolutionized... something... in like a handful of years!

[LiveSteam]

Where does Ziggy stardust fit in?

[Cornstock]

Child please, both are great technicians, but they aren't influences. They extended the zietgiest, but they didn't revolutionize it. No noticeable segment of the population wakes up wanting to dress, create, eat, live, play like them, not on the level of the Beatles and Elvis. Madonna and Lady Gaga are frankly ahead of them on those terms, though they're still behind the big two.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were discussing fashion influences... I thought this was influence from a musician's perspective.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The argument has really been worn out on VH1, countless classic rock message boards, and thousands of dorm rooms, so to hold to a point that one is greater than the other is redundant. But as long as there is acknowledgment that these bands were also profoundly influential I'm happy.

It's just a simple internet poll on one little site. It's not meant to change the world.

[AustinChief]

If we are talking about influential in society then these two are neck and neck... if we are talking inspiring to other musicians then they again both are near the top... if we are talking genuine influence on music and pushing genres forward neither breaks the top 10, nor the top 20, The Beatles may sneak into the top 50... maybe... if we limit the criteria to the 20th century.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were discussing fashion influences... I thought this was influence from a musician's perspective.

FTR I left "influence" undefined on purpose so it could mean influence on other musicians, influence on the path of music that followed, influence on the public, influence on the way music is perceived... any kind of influence.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Where does Ziggy stardust fit in?

#3

[HemiEd]

Influence=change so I vote Elvis.
I didn't really care that much for Elvis, and the Beatles dominated the music scene in my teen years all the way to my 20s.
The Stones had a bigger influence with my crowd.
Never was that big of fan of the Beatles, preferred bands like Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Grand Funk and Steve Miller Band.

How can I not mention "Ten Years After?"

In true retrospect, "The Boxtops" had the biggest early influence on me.

[Cornstock]

It's just a simple internet poll on one little site. It's not meant to change the world.

The discussion has great value. If I wouldn't have had these types of discussion when I was younger I would be oblivious to hundreds of periphery bands who had or were influenced by some of the better known bands.

What I don't like to see is younger generations saying that "the Beatles are the greatest band of all time," yet are unable to name 5 other bands from the 60's. Heck, even older folks can stand to learn something through this type of discussion.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The discussion has great value. If I wouldn't have had these types of discussion when I was younger I would be oblivious to hundreds of periphery bands who had or were influenced by some of the better known bands.

What I don't like to see is younger generations saying that "the Beatles are the greatest band of all time," yet are unable to name 5 other bands from the 60's. Heck, even older folks can stand to learn something through this type of discussion.

Completely agree.

[Baby Lee]

The discussion has great value. If I wouldn't have had these types of discussion when I was younger I would be oblivious to hundreds of periphery bands who had or were influenced by some of the better known bands.

What I don't like to see is younger generations saying that "the Beatles are the greatest band of all time," yet are unable to name 5 other bands from the 60's. Heck, even older folks can stand to learn something through this type of discussion.

I certainly hope you don't view 'younger' people who say that the Beatles are the 'greatest' [leaving aside the issue of what influence means] as universally, or even preponderantly, unaware of other bands of history. I STILL know 10x more about the late 60s, early 70s, than I do the past 10 years. I've been fervently musically engaged from about 83 on.

[MIAdragon]

Bob Dylan and the Stones have to be up there.

[Tombstone RJ]

The Beatles or Elvis Presley. Debergs prog rock thread started me thinking and I thought it was a fairly easy choice until I talked to a few others about it and looked up some numbers. Now it seems like a toss up... although I know what my original gut feeling was.

The Beatles...
Best selling band in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
22 #1 singles world wide
7 grammys
10 films

Elvis Presley
Best selling solo act in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
36 #1 singles
3 grammys
33 films

Of course there is plenty of other criteria. What say you though?

I didn't realize Elvis sold so many records...

[In58men]

Too bad I couldn't expierence great artists like Presley or the Beatles. It's all shit now, lil Wayne, Nikki Manaj, and Justin Bieber. I can't stand those 3 stupid ****s.

[AustinChief]

If we are talking about influential in society then these two are neck and neck... if we are talking inspiring to other musicians then they again both are near the top... if we are talking genuine influence on music and pushing genres forward neither breaks the top 10, nor the top 20, The Beatles may sneak into the top 50... maybe... if we limit the criteria to the 20th century.

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

[Tombstone RJ]

austinchef just quoted himself... that's fantastic!

[Luke Warm]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkoh8pS6h71qc2laf.jpg

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I didn't realize Elvis sold so many records...

They're by far the 2 biggest selling acts of all time. The only 2 over a billion units sold and both over half way to 2 billion. Michael Jackson is 3rd at 750 million.

[Baby Lee]

Bob Dylan and the Stones have to be up there.

Putting up a top 10, just for kicks, and purely off the cuff

Beatles
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Nirvana [time limited, but huge temporary impact]
NWA
Woodie Guthrie
Black Sabbath
Johnny Cash

[DeezNutz]

Putting up a top 10, just for kicks, and purely off the cuff

Beatles
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Nirvana [time limited, but huge temporary impact]
NWA
Woodie Guthrie
Black Sabbath
Johnny Cash

Substitute NWA for Run DMC.

[AustinChief]

austinchef just quoted himself... that's fantastic!

I wanted to respond to the best post so far... left me little choice.. :D

[milkman]

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The Beatles absolutely changed the direction of music, and are responsible for the crap noise that has been generated for the last 40 years.

I don't dislike the Beatles, but I despise the dircection that music took as a result of their influence.

[Luke Warm]

Backstreet Boys
NSYNC
Justin Beiber
George Michael
Elton John
William Hung

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Too bad I couldn't expierence great artists like Presley or the Beatles. It's all shit now, lil Wayne, Nikki Manaj, and Justin Bieber. I can't stand those 3 stupid ****s.

Luckily we can still listen to them. I was just a kid when they "went away" as well.

[Tombstone RJ]

They're by far the 2 biggest selling acts of all time. The only 2 over a billion units sold and both over half way to 2 billion. Michael Jackson is 3rd at 750 million.

does the Michael Jackson estate still own the rights to the Beatles' songs or did Paul McCartney finally buy the rights back?

[Tombstone RJ]

I wanted to respond to the best post so far... left me little choice.. :D

I understand

[In58men]

Backstreet Boys
NSYNC
Justin Beiber
George Michael
Elton John
William Hung

I'm not sure I like you.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Backstreet Boys
NSYNC
Justin Beiber
George Michael
Elton John
William Hung

Elton John doesn't belong in that list. He's one of the all time greats whether you like him or not and easily in the top 100 influential artists.

[AustinChief]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The Beatles absolutely changed the direction of music, and are responsible for the crap noise that has been generated for the last 40 years.

I don't dislike the Beatles, but I despise the direction that music took as a result of their influence.

I would list that under "inspire" not influence. I know I am kinda defining my own terms here but I don't see much of what they did as anything particularly new or special.. just popular. the Beach Boys on the other hand actually create new sounds... so did Phil Spector for that matter.

I agree with you that they influenced music in the way you are defining it... for sure. I am just trying to take the conversation more into the realm of actual changes to how the music is structured or played. I guess I should change the term to INNOVATE.. I don't see either as big innovators but the bands I listed were.

[Luke Warm]

I'm not sure I like you.

If you don't like great music then screw you :cuss:

[Cornstock]

I certainly hope you don't view 'younger' people who say that the Beatles are the 'greatest' [leaving aside the issue of what influence means] as universally, or even preponderantly, unaware of other bands of history. I STILL know 10x more about the late 60s, early 70s, than I do the past 10 years. I've been fervently musically engaged from about 83 on.

The way I see it, to divide up younger generations of music-listeners there are 2 main groups. Those who are well-versed and well-listened in the rich history of what I will call "modern music" (beginning roughly in the mid 50's) and those who simply pick out a big name i.e. the Beatles and say they're the greatest ever.

The former category is increasingly diminishing as high school and college aged kids ignore the influences in favor of "popular music" of today. That is not to say there is not a large audience who still appreciate "classic rock." Almost without exception, those who are musicians themselves pay homage to their influences and acknowledge them as invaluable. For example, I was watching an old rerun of Bonaroo (or some other music festival) on the Paladia network on DirecTV in which they showed the end of a Katy Perry concert. Imagine my surprise when the outro came along, the band played none other than the intro to Rush's Cygnus X-1, definitely one of their more obscure early pieces. I would almost guarantee no one in the audience knew that the piece the band was playing was anything more than some random riff.

But overall, if those who appreciate music and have listened to many different bands and come to the conclusion that, in their opinion, the Beatles are "the greatest of all time," I have no problem with that. It's when they haven't listened to anything but saw the movie "Across the Universe" and made that decision that irks me. (I ran into someone a while back who thought those were all original pieces from the movie, and when showed the originals, opined that the remakes were all superior)

Its only through discussion and the exchange of ideas, such as here, where we can begin to educate younger audiences on where their modern music comes from.

[Bump]

without Elvis, would rock be the show it is today though? I know how influential the Beatles are they did pretty much start the whole thing. It's a tough one.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

I'll disagree about The Beatles there. Their early stuff was literally just pop fodder but their later stuff... Sgt. Peppers, I Am The Walrus etc was pretty ground breaking.

[Luke Warm]

Elton John doesn't belong in that list. He's one of the all time greats whether you like him or not and easily in the top 100 influential artists.

In all honesty, I respect the man. He is a legend. I only put him to keep the gay theme going.

[Tribal Warfare]

Chuck Berry and Robert Johnson

[Cornstock]

Elton John doesn't belong in that list. He's one of the all time greats whether you like him or not and easily in the top 100 influential artists.

Agreed.

[In58men]

If you don't like great music then screw you :cuss:

I want you dead

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

does the Michael Jackson estate still own the rights to the Beatles' songs or did Paul McCartney finally buy the rights back?

I believe MJ's estate still owns it but I could be wrong. Someone can correct me if they know better.

[whoman69]

Elvis Pressley did not write any of his songs. The Beatles wrote almost all of their songs. Elvis music career went on hold while he was in the army and again when he went into movies. While he did have music from those movies, he wasn't recording in the studio. I really don't think he had a big influence on popular music after returning to the stage in 1969.

The Beatles were so popular they had to stop touring. Their songs entered more into the consciousness. They wrote songs with more meaning. Elvis tried to get into that late in his career but I think with little success.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

In all honesty, I respect the man. He is a legend. I only put him to keep the gay theme going.

lol gotcha

[milkman]

I would list that under "inspire" not influence. I know I am kinda defining my own terms here but I don't see much of what they did as anything particularly new or special.. just popular. the Beach Boys on the other hand actually create new sounds... so did Phil Spector for that matter.

I agree with you that they influenced music in the way you are defining it... for sure. I am just trying to take the conversation more into the realm of actual changes to how the music is structured or played. I guess I should change the term to INNOVATE.. I don't see either as big innovators but the bands I listed were.

It was their innovation that changed the direction of music.

A song like "She's Leaving Home" was groundbreaking and introduced the idea that musical instruments just making noise is music.

Now it's all just fucking noise.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

It was their innovation that changed the direction of music.

A song like "She's Leaving Home" was groundbreaking and introduced the idea that musical instruments just making noise is music.

Now it's all just ****ing noise.

Why are you even posting in here... you don't even like music.





:p

[AustinChief]

I'll disagree about The Beatles there. Their early stuff was literally just pop fodder but their later stuff... Sgt. Peppers, I Am The Walrus etc was pretty ground breaking.

Hence why I said it could be argued "as they matured"... although by that time they weren't really pushing an envelope that hadn't already been pushed by bands like The Beach Boys with multi-track recording and Phil Spector with his wall of sound. Even Paul McCartney admits that a ton of what came out on Sgt Peppers was inspired by Good Vibrations.

They simply weren't very ground breaking. Again, top 50 in the 20th century in that regard... maybe.

[Bump]

I think music just evolves. There has always been music. Great musicians come along and it just evolves naturally.

First the Beatles, I mean they pretty much have to be at the top. No other music group has produced a more solid and diverse library in such a short amount of time. They defined 60's culture.

The you have Miles Davis and Elvis Presley changing the game the way it's performed.

Then Bob Dylan comes along and makes it about sending a message.

Then you got Chuck Berry rocking out the guitar

The Rolling Stones of course.

Michael Jackson is def the most influential in pop culture.

Then of course Nirvana evolving rock for the whole 90's

Then Nickelback being the top 2000's band, making people think that music is dead and making people really appreciating 90's and older rock.

[HemiEd]

To expand on my post.. i would put guys like Charlie Parker, Dave Brubeck, Stan Getz and Duke Ellington above both. If we limit it to pop/rock then Buddy Holly jumps far ahead of both... so does Duane Eddy or Booker T. And of course the Beach Boys.

I'm a big fan of both the Beatles and Elvis but neither did a huge amount to push the envelope. It can be argued that the Beatles did as they matured but again, not nearly as much as so many others.

Yeah, influence is quite subjective, and has to relate to the time period I would think. Charlie Parker and Buddy Holly yes, oh hell yes when it comes to influence.

[-King-]

Elvis literally stole his entire act so I'll go with the Beatles.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Hence why I said it could be argued "as they matured"... although by that time they weren't really pushing an envelope that hadn't already been pushed by bands like The Beach Boys with multi-track recording and Phil Spector with his wall of sound. Even Paul McCartney admits that a ton of what came out on Sgt Peppers was inspired by Good Vibrations.

They simply weren't very ground breaking. Again, top 50 in the 20th century in that regard... maybe.

I saw the rest of your post. I pretty much just wanted to further the debate heh.

While I appreciate what they did...... God I hate the Beach Boys. Just passionately hate them. Sorry.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Elvis literally stole his entire act so I'll go with the Beatles.
Posted via Mobile Device

Stole from...?

[Tombstone RJ]

I think music just evolves. There has always been music. Great musicians come along and it just evolves naturally.

First the Beatles, I mean they pretty much have to be at the top. No other music group has produced a more solid and diverse library in such a short amount of time. They defined 60's culture.

The you have Miles Davis and Elvis Presley changing the game the way it's performed.

Then Bob Dylan comes along and makes it about sending a message.

Then you got Chuck Berry rocking out the guitar

The Rolling Stones of course.

Michael Jackson is def the most influential in pop culture.

Then of course Nirvana evolving rock for the whole 90's

Then Nickelback being the top 2000's band, making people think that music is dead and making people really appreciating 90's and older rock.

There's simply too much great music out there (and way more crapola) to break it down into simple statements like your's above. When you've been a fan of rocknroll for as long as I have and have listened to as much music as I have over the years (and seen as many live performances) it just is not that simple.

[Tombstone RJ]

Stole from...?

well Forest Gump of course! :banghead:

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

well Forest Gump of course! :banghead:

LMAO

[In58men]

He's one of my favorite artists'. The guy has 59 #1 songs. It's crazy what he has done for country. Mr George Strait.


2009 Academy of Country Music Artist of the Decade
2009 Grammy Awards Best Country Album - Troubadour
2008 Country Music Association Album of the Year - Troubadour
2008 Country Music Association Single of the Year - "I Saw God Today"
2007 Country Music Association Album of the Year - It Just Comes Natural (Two Trophies: Artist, and Producer)
2007 Country Music Association Song of the Year - "Give It Away" (Awarded to Songwriter Jamey Johnson)
2006 Country Music Hall of Fame Inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame
2006 Honorary Doctoral Degree Doctor of Humane Letters presented by Texas State University–San Marcos
2005 Country Music Association Musical Event of the Year - "Good News, Bad News" (with Lee Ann Womack)
2003 Special Award National Medal of Arts
2003 Academy of Country Music Special Achievement Award (in recognition of 50 No.*1 Songs)
2003 CMT 40 Greatest Men of Country Music Ranked No.*9
2002 Country Weekly Favorite Collaborative Song - "Designated Drinker" (with Alan Jackson)
2001 Country Music Association Song of the Year - "Murder On Music Row" (Awarded to Songwriters)
2000 Country Music Association Vocal Event of the Year - "Murder On Music Row" (with Alan Jackson)
2000 Country Weekly / TNN/CMT Music Awards Album of the Year - Always Never The Same
2000 Country Weekly / TNN/CMT Music Awards*** Entertainer of the Year
2000 Country Weekly / TNN/CMT Music Awards Male Artist of the Year
2000 Country Weekly / TNN/CMT Music Awards Single of the Year - "Write This Down"
2000 Country Weekly / TNN/CMT Music Awards Impact Artist of the Year
1999 Country Weekly / TNN/CMT Music Awards Album of the Year - One Step At A Time
1999 Country Weekly Golden Pick Awards Favorite Enteratiner
1999 Country Weekly Golden Pick Awards Favorite Male Artist
1999 Country Weekly Golden Pick Awards Favorite Video Enteratiner
1999 Country Weekly Golden Pick Awards Favorite Line Dance Song - "I Just Want To Dance With You"
1999 Country Weekly Golden Pick Awards Favorite Song - "I Just Want To Dance With You"
1998 Radio & Records Best Male Vocalist
1998 American Music Awards Favorite Country Album - Carrying Your Love With Me
1998 American Music Awards Favorite Country Male Artist
1998 Country Music Association Male Vocalist of the Year
1996 Billboard Most Played Artist (All Genres of Music)
1997 Radio & Records Best Male Vocalist
1997 Radio & Records Best Album - Blue Clear Sky
1997 Academy of Country Music Album of the Year - Carrying Your Love With Me
1997 Academy of Country Music Top Male Vocalist
1997 American Music Awards Favorite Country Album - Blue Clear Sky
1997 Country Music Association Album of the Year - Carrying Your Love With Me
1997 Country Music Association Male Vocalist of the Year
1997 TNN/Music City News Album of the Year - Blue Clear Sky
1996 Billboard Top Country Artist
1996 Radio & Records Most Valuable Performer
1996 Radio & Records Best Male Vocalist
1996 Radio & Records Best Single - "Check Yes Or No"
1996 Academy of Country Music Album of the Year - Blue Clear Sky
1996 Academy of Country Music Top Male Vocalist
1996 Country Music Association Male Vocalist of the Year
1996 Country Music Association Album of the Year - Blue Clear Sky
1996 Country Music Association Single of the Year - "Check Yes Or No"
1996 Music City News Country Single of the Year - "Check Yes Or No"
1996 TNN/Music City News Album of the Year - Lead On
1996 TNN/Music City News Single of the Year - "Check Yes Or No"
1996 TNN/Music City News Video of the Year - "Check Yes Or No"
1995 ASCAP Voice Of Music Award
1995 Academy of Country Music Single of the Year - "Check Yes Or No"
1993 ACM Tex Ritter Movie Of The Year - Pure Country
1991 American Music Awards Favorite Country Male Artist
1990 Radio & Records Country Performer Of The Year
1990 Country Music Association Entertainer of the Year
1989 Special Presidential American Success Award
1989 Academy of Country Music Entertainer of the Year
1989 Special Connie B. Gay Award
1989 Country Music Association Entertainer of the Year
1988 Academy of Country Music Top Male Vocalist
1987 Billboard Top Country Artist
1986 Billboard Top Country Artist
1986 Country Music Association Male Vocalist of the Year
1986 Music City News Country Male Artist of the Year
1985 Academy of Country Music Album of the Year - Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind
1985 Academy of Country Music Top Male Vocalist
1985 Country Music Association Album of the Year - Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind
1985 Country Music Association Male Vocalist of the Year
1984 Academy of Country Music Top Male Vocalist

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

He's one of my favorite artists'. The guy has 59 #1 songs. It's crazy what he has done for country. Mr George Strait.




Ya know we have a country music repository thread here and it celebrates that kind of stuff. You should drop in now and then.

:D

King George leads the world in #1's. Conway Twitty is a close second.

[-King-]

Stole from...?

Chuck Berry and other black rock and roll artists. Elvis was the product of Sam Philips taking the "black sound" and marketing it to a white audience.

[AustinChief]

It was their innovation that changed the direction of music.

A song like "She's Leaving Home" was groundbreaking and introduced the idea that musical instruments just making noise is music.

Now it's all just fucking noise.

Well I certainly disagree about that song being "noise" but nothing on that song was innovative. Maybe it was the first example you know of, but it certainly wasn't unique to popular music at the time.

That same year you had the Moody Blues album Days of Future Passed... before that you had (as already mentioned) the Beach Boys and Phil Spector pushing this sound.

You also had "The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore" by the Walker Brothers... a number of hits by The Zombies and one of my favorites.. The Left Banke.

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[Baby Lee]

Hence why I said it could be argued "as they matured"... although by that time they weren't really pushing an envelope that hadn't already been pushed by bands like The Beach Boys with multi-track recording and Phil Spector with his wall of sound. Even Paul McCartney admits that a ton of what came out on Sgt Peppers was inspired by Good Vibrations.

They simply weren't very ground breaking. Again, top 50 in the 20th century in that regard... maybe.

Google the story about how Rubber Soul drove Brian Wilson.

And I see your differentiation between influence and innovation, I can't credit the Beach Boys with widespread influence as, aside from an era of surf music that they influenced and were influenced by, they pretty much stand on an island alone. You'd be hard pressed to come up with a large list that you'd label 'Beach Boys 2.0,' or 'Beach Boys of 80s/90s/some other subgenre' If something sounds like the Beach Boys, 9 times out of 10 is IS the Beach Boys, or offshoot project.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Chuck Berry and other black rock and roll artists. Elvis was the product of Sam Philips taking the "black sound" and marketing it to a white audience.

Is that what he was doing when he started as a country artist? Elvis just had soul.

[AustinChief]

Google the story about how Rubber Soul drove Brian Wilson.

I know it... but that is "inspire" not innovate. Yes, I know I am changing the direction and defining my own terms.

Nothing about Rubber Soul was particularly new, Brian just felt it was "complete" so he wanted to make his own complete album with all top quality songs. While accomplishing that he also pushed the envelope in the way music was recorded and layered.

[lewdog]

Then Nickelback being the top 2000's band, making people think that music is dead and making people really appreciating 90's and older rock.

ROFL

So true. These guys fucking blow and I have no idea why anyone listens to their shit. Just disgusting and why I live with my 90's rock music.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

ROFL

So true. These guys ****ing blow and I have no idea why anyone listens to their shit. Just disgusting and why I live with my 90's rock music.

FWIW Nicklebacks first couple albums had some actual writting and some actual meaning to many of their songs. I hate the way they've gone since that too.

[Deberg_1990]

The Beatles or Elvis Presley. Debergs prog rock thread started me thinking and I thought it was a fairly easy choice until I talked to a few others about it and looked up some numbers. Now it seems like a toss up... although I know what my original gut feeling was.

The Beatles...
Best selling band in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
22 #1 singles world wide
7 grammys
10 films

Elvis Presley
Best selling solo act in history... roughly 1 billion 600 million units sold
36 #1 singles
3 grammys
33 films

Of course there is plenty of other criteria. What say you though?

Im gonna have to go Beatles with this one. Love me some Elvis, but he didnt really write his songs did he? Plus, if he wouldnt have existed, some other white boy would have brought rythm and blues to the masses eventually.

[BigMeatballDave]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/c/cc/Teletubbies.jpg/300px-Teletubbies.jpg

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

For AustinChief

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For lewdog

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[Deberg_1990]

BTW, this should have been a Beatles Vs. Beach Boys thread since McCartney has stated thats who he felt he was trying to compete with. : )

[Baby Lee]

Child please, both are great technicians, but they aren't influences. They extended the zietgiest, but they didn't revolutionize it. No noticeable segment of the population wakes up wanting to dress, create, eat, live, play like them, not on the level of the Beatles and Elvis. Madonna and Lady Gaga are frankly ahead of them on those terms, though they're still behind the big two.

Putting up a top 10, just for kicks, and purely off the cuff

Beatles
Michael Jackson
Madonna
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Nirvana [time limited, but huge temporary impact]
NWA
Woodie Guthrie
Black Sabbath
Johnny Cash

I're and ideiot.

TBH, though. I'm struggling with gauging Madonna's influence teetering between a mean old white man undervaluing her, and a guilt-laden old white man overvaluing her, all along unable to place myself in the shoes of those of the fairer sex she influenced.

[BigMeatballDave]

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/the-wiggles_1490.jpg

[rico]

Who is the most influential musical artist in history?

You guessed it,

http://www.free-blog.in/uploads/s/saltyka/33033.jpg

[Bugeater]

This guy practically invented rock 'n' roll.

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[AustinChief]

For AustinChief


I have that tape somewhere! Damn, I haven't actually heard that song in ages though.. nice one.

[In58men]

This guy practically invented rock 'n' roll.

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http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/16/abydyqar.jpg

Buck Owens. Our hometown hero.

[lewdog]

FWIW Nicklebacks first couple albums had some actual writting and some actual meaning to many of their songs. I hate the way they've gone since that too.

I will admit, their album "the state" was ok. Pretty shitty after that and just down right horrible today with what they put out.

[Deberg_1990]

Chicks dig the Nickelback. If you dig chicks, you have to dig on sum Nickelback.

[rico]

Chicks dig the Nickelback. If you dig chicks, you have to dig on sum Nickelback.


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This vid makes me dig Portugal a little bit.... I like their style.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

BTW, this should have been a Beatles Vs. Beach Boys thread since McCartney has stated thats who he felt he was trying to compete with. : )

If the Beach Boys were in the mix with the 2 biggest artists of all time they would have been.

:)

[In58men]

No love for CCR?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I have that tape somewhere! Damn, I haven't actually heard that song in ages though.. nice one.

Heh nice... I have the cassette and the cd that I bought many years later. Seriously that's one of my favorite songs.

[Deberg_1990]

I think i still have my Eddie and the Cruisers 2 CD somewhere.

[-King-]

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[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I will admit, their album "the state" was ok. Pretty shitty after that and just down right horrible today with what they put out.

I liked "Silver Side Up" and "All The Right Reasons" too. Since then it's just formula "come fuck me" music.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

No love for CCR?

I think you just gave them love. Good band... not really a huge influence especially in comparison to The Beatles and Elvis.

I see the bathroom on the right though.

[Bugeater]

Chicks dig the Nickelback. If you dig chicks, you have to dig on sum Nickelback.
I've been married for 19 years. Fuck Nickelback.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I've been married for 19 years. **** Nickelback.

I'm willing to bet your lovely wife liked some stupid shit music when you married her... and likely still does.

:)

[Baby Lee]

I'm willing to bet your lovely wife liked some stupid shit music when you married her... and likely still does.

:)

Had a HS GF who was rabid for Def Leppard, had one in college who went to her fainting couch every time the strains of REM were in the air. Neither situation deterred me from seeking the nappy dugout.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Had a HS GF who was rabid for Def Leppard, had one in college who went to her fainting couch every time the strains of REM were in the air. Neither situation deterred me from seeking the nappy dugout.

I like a lot of Def Leppard and most REM myself... but I won't pretend they are in the discussion. A woman I nearly married thinks the world begins and ends with Def Leppard. I didn't hold it against her then and I don't now.

I love all kinds of music. I really appreciate the good stuff but I think the popular stuff has a place too and like a lot of it. I just want music to speak to me no matter what it is.

[Baby Lee]

I like a lot of Def Leppard and most REM myself... but I won't pretend they are in the discussion. A woman I nearly married thinks the world begins and ends with Def Leppard. I didn't hold it against her then and I don't now.

I love all kinds of music. I really appreciate the good stuff but I think the popular stuff has a place too and like a lot of it. I just want music to speak to me no matter what it is.

I don't think either are particularly bad, just at a loss to find them passion inducing. In both situations there were broad swaths of music I found vastly superior at that time [was a huge AC/DC, Nazareth, Sabbath, Metallica fan around the HS GF, and a huge Nirvana, GnR, NWA, Beastie Boys fan with the College GF].

[Deberg_1990]

I like a lot of Def Leppard and most REM myself... but I won't pretend they are in the discussion. A woman I nearly married thinks the world begins and ends with Def Leppard. I didn't hold it against her then and I don't now.

I love all kinds of music. I really appreciate the good stuff but I think the popular stuff has a place too and like a lot of it. I just want music to speak to me no matter what it is.

De Leppard was extrememly good at what they did. Pop Rock. It is what it is.

[rico]

If the Beach Boys were in the mix with the 2 biggest artists of all time they would have been.

:)

I'm fully aware that the Beatles, on an global level have been much more influential than the Beach Boys....HOWEVER, I personally prefer Beach Boys. I have Pet Sounds in my car right now. I saw Mike Love (well, it was labeled Beach Boys, but it was just Mike Love and some other dudes) in concert last year. Had a blast.

I don't doubt that the Beatles' lyrics, music, innovation, etc. was brilliant. I just haven't ever been able to get into them. I like "I am the Walrus," and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" but that's honestly about it for me. I don't necessarily dislike their other stuff, I just can't get into it to the point where I'll buy their stuff, seek more of their music or put it into my personal rotation in my car or in my office. I don't know what it is that everyone including my family and friends are hearing that I'm not.... The vocals don't really grab my attention. The music really doesn't either. Some of it may have to do with the fact that I have always felt that Paul McCartney is a total prag. I haven't taken the time to really sit down and analyze their lyrics because I haven't really felt tempted to...they are somewhat boring to me in comparison to other bands.

I like some of Elvis's stuff though. So I voted for him. Do I really think he was more influential than the Beatles as a whole? No, probably not. Maybe comparable on a national level, but globally? I'm guessing the Beatles take the cake. So my initial urge to choose Elvis and going through with choosing him, was due to my bias of just personally liking Elvis more and a lot of why I like Elvis is probably for sentimental reasons....used to listen to him a lot at my semi-recently deceased grandfather's house.

I'm at a musical stalemate right now... I haven't been able to find anything to get into that I've liked. I just went through a huge Nilsson (ironic since he was so tight with Lennon) and Fred Neil phase. With that said, if anyone has any suggestions of Beatles songs to listen to that may change my opinion of them, by all means post them. I'd like to get into the Beatles.....I just am not totally stoked about what I've heard from them so far, which I admit, is a limited amount. Basically what I've heard from them are their hits and some of the songs that my brother has forced me to listen to in what seemed like desperate attempts at converting me into a Beatles fan. So if ya'll have any suggestions, I'll definitely give them a try. Like I stated earlier, so far, I dig "I am the Walrus" and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and there was a blue-grassy-ish song that my friend played on the way to Lollapalooza a few years ago that I remember thinking was pretty cool, but didn't know the name of the song.

On a side note, if I were asked who I thought the most influential musical influence(s) are in terms of how music has been shaped and molded into what it is now.... my answer would be African American slaves.

[Rain Man]

My immediate thought was the Beatles. However, in thinking about it a little more, I'd have to go with Elvis. I think he broke rock and roll into the mainstream. The Beatles went nuclear with it, but Elvis was the guy who landed in Santo Domingo in his three small ships.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I don't think either are particularly bad, just at a loss to find them passion inducing. In both situations there were broad swaths of music I found vastly superior at that time [was a huge AC/DC, Nazareth, Sabbath, Metallica fan around the HS GF, and a huge Nirvana, GnR, NWA, Beastie Boys fan with the College GF].

I loved REM before they became popular (not because they were popular just because the music changed). After that "Losing My Religon" was about the only song that got to me deeply. "Everybody Hurts" was pretty good too.

Before that songs like "Don't Go Back To Rockville" and "Driver 8" got me to be a fan.

[Baby Lee]

De Leppard was extrememly good at what they did. Pop Rock. It is what it is.

TBH, my beef with them was more the adoration of hot WT chicks [and my attendant insistence that my HS GF WASN'T one of those] than the music itself.

Their music, for me was just something that WAS, not bad, not great, just on the radio all the time.

[rico]

I loved REM before they became popular (not because they were popular just because the music changed). After that "Losing My Religon" was about the only song that got to me deeply. "Everybody Hurts" was pretty good too.

Before that songs like "Don't Go Back To Rockville" and "Driver 8" got me to be a fan.

Awesome, you were into them in their college radio craze days then, eh? Wasn't it "Losing My Religion" that brought them from college radio fame to mainstream fame?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Awesome, you were into them in their college radio craze days then, eh? Wasn't it "Losing My Religion" that brought them from college radio fame to mainstream fame?

Yes that was the song. I loved REM well before and still loved them after... but they were better before "Religion" hit... overall. I hold nothing against any band who finds mainstream success by doing what they normally do though. Good for the rest of the world finally catching onto it.

[Bugeater]

I'm willing to bet your lovely wife liked some stupid shit music when you married her... and likely still does.

:)
Heh, one of our first dates she popped a cassette into her car stereo...Paul McCartney & Wings. I knew I had found my soul mate.

[rico]

Yes that was the song. I loved REM well before and still loved them after... but they were better before "Religion" hit... overall. I hold nothing against any band who finds mainstream success by doing what they normally do though. Good for the rest of the world finally catching onto it.

I absolutely love that "Monster" album.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Heh, one of our first dates she popped a cassette into her car stereo...Paul McCartney & Wings. I knew I had found my soul mate.

Well good for you then, seriously. She liked Beatles light.

:)

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I absolutely love that "Monster" album.

Monster was and is a great album imo. Sometimes I put "Ephonymous" on and let it play over and over all day. Yes it's a "greatest hits" album but the thing is those songs weren't actually "hits." They were just the most popular among the underground fans at the time.

[Baby Lee]

Heh, one of our first dates she popped a cassette into her car stereo...Paul McCartney & Wings. I knew I had found my soul mate.

Lucky for you, this was when you were young and your heart was an open book.


Gah, groan.

[Bugeater]

Lucky for you, this was when you were young and your heart was an open book.


Gah, groan.
http://www.thereformedbroker.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/House-Republicans.jpg

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

This vote is closer than what I thought it would be. I originally thought Beatles too but like I said in talking to others and looking up numbers it wasn't so cut and dried. The vote reflects that.

[AustinChief]

This vote is closer than what I thought it would be. I originally thought Beatles too but like I said in talking to others and looking up numbers it wasn't so cut and dried. The vote reflects that.

What are you talking about.. it's pretty clear from the votes who is the runaway winner!

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

What are you talking about.. it's pretty clear from the votes who is the runaway winner!

Mod abuse rocks. Cafferty is under-rated. Just ask Springsteen.

[HemiEd]

I've been married for 19 years. **** Nickelback.

Yeah, Its hard to believe this thread got there. I feel like someone is running their fingernails on the chalkboard when I hear them. ugh.

It was Elvis in the 50s, and the Beatles in the 60s.

[Deberg_1990]

Heh, one of our first dates she popped a cassette into her car stereo...Paul McCartney & Wings. I knew I had found my soul mate.

19 years huh? Im surprised she wasnt into Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam back in those days.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

19 years huh? Im surprised she wasnt into Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam back in those days.

What's wrong with any of those bands? Soungarden and Pearl Jam are two of my favorites. Nirvana.... yeah they did some good stuff too.

[Bugeater]

19 years huh? Im surprised she wasnt into Nirvana, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam back in those days.
Nirvana and Pearl Jam, yes. I was more into Soundgarden than she was though.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Nirvana and Pearl Jam, yes. I was more into Soundgarden than she was though.

Dude... Pearl Jam is the best of the 3.

[Bugeater]

Dude... Pearl Jam is the best of the 3.
Eh, maybe so, but they're another victim of commercial radio over-saturation. If I never hear another Pearl Jam song again it will still be too soon.

[Baby Lee]

Dude... Pearl Jam is the best of the 3.

I'd put Nirvana/Foo Fighters, Soundgarden/Audioslave and Pearl Jam on fairly equal footing.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I'd put Nirvana/Foo Fighters, Soundgarden/Audioslave and Pearl Jam on fairly equal footing.

IMO Nirvana was more groundbreaking than Foo Fighters... though I like Foo Fighters more. (I don't always see groundbreaking as equaling better) Pearl Jam is better than Audioslave although I love both.

[pimpchief]

Nirvana was absolute garbage. Foo Fighters are pretty good though.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Nirvana was absolute garbage. Foo Fighters are pretty good though.

Nirvana was hardly garbage. They re-defined an era and sent music in a new direction. To say they were garbage is to know nothing about music beyond when you might have been born.

I'm guessing you're about 20 years old and never bothered to listen to anything made since you were 15.

[Baby Lee]

IMO Nirvana was more groundbreaking than Foo Fighters... though I like Foo Fighters more. (I don't always see groundbreaking as equaling better) Pearl Jam is better than Audioslave although I love both.

Believe me, I love all of them A LOT. Have just about everything all 5 bands put out. Don't have all PJ's Ticketmaster thwarting bootlegs that came later, but I have something better, the Chicago bootleg they authorized WAAAY before any other bootlegs, and printed 100 copies [50 CD, 50 Vinyl] for Vintage Vinyl.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nirvana was hardly garbage.

Not even close to garbage. What a silly statement.

They re-defined an era and sent music in a new direction.

Here's were we disagree.

Nirvana was like an angry Cheap Trick. Great songs and a great singer that wrote lyrics that connected with the disaffected.

They didn't break any new ground musically and didn't inspire a trend. I think Green Day had way more influence over Pop/Rock in the 90's than Nirvana but that's partially due to Cobain's suicide.

On a side note, Dave and the Foo's, especially their recent records, have meant exponentially more to me than Nirvana.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Believe me, I love all of them A LOT. Have just about everything all 5 bands put out. Don't have all PJ's Ticketmaster thwarting bootlegs that came later, but I have something better, the Chicago bootleg they authorized WAAAY before any other bootlegs, and printed 100 copies [50 CD, 50 Vinyl] for Vintage Vinyl.

You just made my vinyl collection jealous.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Not even close to garbage. What a silly statement.



Here's were we disagree.

Nirvana was like an angry Cheap Trick. Great songs and a great singer that wrote lyrics that connected with the disaffected.

They didn't break any new ground musically and didn't inspire a trend. I think Green Day had way more influence over Pop/Rock in the 90's than Nirvana but that's partially due to Cobain's suicide.

On a side note, Dave and the Foo's, especially their recent records, have meant exponentially more to me than Nirvana.

I respectfully disagree. Nirvana isn't my favorite grunge band from the era but they did start it. They most definately inpsired a trend. Look back at Soundgarden and Pearl Jams popularity before Nirvana. Nothing. After... huge. If you don't credit Nirvana as starting the trend then you weren't paying attention.

[MOhillbilly]

TCB

[pimpchief]

Nirvana was hardly garbage. They re-defined an era and sent music in a new direction. To say they were garbage is to know nothing about music beyond when you might have been born.

I'm guessing you're about 20 years old and never bothered to listen to anything made since you were 15.

Bull. I've listen to plenty of older music. I've listened to Nirvana, all the albums, bleach to in utero. They suck. Its crappy pop, not rock. It didn't change anything and the front man was a loser.

[pimpchief]

I respectfully disagree. Nirvana isn't my favorite grunge band from the era but they did start it. They most definately inpsired a trend. Look back at Soundgarden and Pearl Jams popularity before Nirvana. Nothing. After... huge. If you don't credit Nirvana as starting the trend then you weren't paying attention.

To even put Nirvana in the category of the other two is utterly insane.

[lewdog]

Well Pearl Jam is my favorite band of all-time but I feel Nirvana was more influential to a change in a whole music scene. Pearl Jam is far more talented musically though and while they are definitely over-played, I still love the new music they put out. If you have ever seen them live, it is something amazing. At least 2+ hours straight for every concert they ever perform. Many of them 3 hours long.

I hope they never quit but I sense an extended break coming up soon due to all of them being involved in multiple side projects.

[Baby Lee]

I respectfully disagree. Nirvana isn't my favorite grunge band from the era but they did start it. They most definately inpsired a trend. Look back at Soundgarden and Pearl Jams popularity before Nirvana. Nothing. After... huge. If you don't credit Nirvana as starting the trend then you weren't paying attention.

I had 'Louder Than Love' in 1990, and bought '10' and 'Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge' before Nevermind in 1991.

So when Teen Spirit hit, it was the world COMING TO ME, even more than basking in the emergence of a new trend.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Bull. I've listen to plenty of older music. I've listened to Nirvana, all the albums, bleach to in utero. They suck. Its crappy pop, not rock. It didn't change anything and the front man was a loser.

Good for you for missing the whole point. Bleach to In Utero... aka no clue about how Nirvana changed music. Anyone who knows their ass from a hole in the ground knows "Nevermind" was the album that changed things. While you listen to it and compare it to 20 years of music before it and pretend you have a clue about the subject please find the start of the era.

I'll wait.

[Shaid]

This is extremely difficult but I go with Elvis just because he came first and I think he opened the door for a ton of things, the Beatles included.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I had 'Louder Than Love' in 1990, and bought '10' and 'Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge' before Nevermind in 1991.

So when Teen Spirit hit, it was the world COMING TO ME, even more than basking in the emergence of a new trend.

I think you're agreeing with me here. Nirvana did stuff before "Nevermind." None of it re-defined music for it's time.

[pimpchief]

Good for you for missing the whole point. Bleach to In Utero... aka no clue about how Nirvana changed music. Anyone who knows their ass from a hole in the ground knows "Nevermind" was the album that changed things. While you listen to it and compare it to 20 years of music before it and pretend you have a clue about the subject please find the start of the era.

I'll wait.

Nevermind blew chunks. There's a song about during under neath a bridge being a boring douche, a song about raping a parrot and a bunch of trash that doesn't make sense. Idiots went crazy over it. No biggie.

Green day was the game changer, I agree with mccloud.

[KS Smitty]

Along the Elvis vs Beatles, I think if you look back at interviews etc you will find that the (early) Beatles mention Elvis as an influence much more than (any) Elvis.

Personally I blame Chuck Berry.

[Baby Lee]

I think you're agreeing with me here. Nirvana did stuff before "Nevermind." None of it re-defined music for it's time.

Sorry, I thought was bragging about being ahead of the curve. ;)

[Baby Lee]

Nevermind blew chunks. There's a song about during under neath a bridge being a boring douche, a song about raping a parrot and a bunch of trash that doesn't make sense. Idiots went crazy over it. No biggie.

Green day was the game changer, I agree with mccloud.

Green Day MAYBE influenced Rancid, MAYBE.

Blink 182, Cake, and PotUSA were more influentual in that sphere.

Not to knock Green Day [Again, I had Kerpunk before Dookie came out and Dookie before Basket Case was on MTV], but they're just a faster, more polished, punk riff. They were as 'influential' as The Black Crowes [who I also like] were in their genre.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Nevermind blew chunks. There's a song about during under neath a bridge being a boring douche, a song about raping a parrot and a bunch of trash that doesn't make sense. Idiots went crazy over it. No biggie.

Green day was the game changer, I agree with mccloud.

If I could make sense of your drunk english I might find a point... but I doubt it.

Agreeing with Dane is always the best reference too lol.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nirvana isn't my favorite grunge band from the era but they did start it.

No, they didn't.

The Seattle sound had been developing for the latter half of the 80's. Bands like Green River, Mudhoney and Soundgarden and so on. Soundgarden's "Badmotorfinger" was released in 1991 as well. The quintessential album of the 90's, IMO was Temple of the Dog, and it was released in 1990.

Pearl Jam was created from the bones of Green River and Mother Love Bone. While I believe that Pearl Jam ecompasses all that is early 90's "Grunge", Nirvana didn't start the trend.

They most definately inpsired a trend. Look back at Soundgarden and Pearl Jams popularity before Nirvana. Nothing. After... huge. If you don't credit Nirvana as starting the trend then you weren't paying attention.

Again, I fully disagree. And as far as "paying attention", you couldn't be further from the truth, especially since I began working for Uni in 1993.

[Deberg_1990]

Chili Peppers.....Blood Sugar Sex Magik.....Brilliance.

[DaneMcCloud]

Agreeing with Dane is always the best reference too lol.

You're a fucking deejay, I worked at the actual companies that signed these artists and had a fairly big influence on who was signed and when.

Furthermore, I have more backroom stories about the emergence of the Seattle Sound than you'll ever know.

So go ahead and disagree with me all you want. I know the truth because in many cases, I was actually there.

[Baby Lee]

No, they didn't.

The Seattle sound had been developing for the latter half of the 80's. Bands like Green River, Mudhoney and Soundgarden and so on. Soundgarden's "Badmotorfinger" was released in 1991 as well. The quintessential album of the 90's, IMO was Temple of the Dog, and it was released in 1990.

Pearl Jam was created from the bones of Green River and Mother Love Bone. While I believe that Pearl Jam ecompasses all that is early 90's "Grunge", Nirvana didn't start the trend.



Again, I fully disagree. And as far as "paying attention", you couldn't be further from the truth, especially since I began working for Uni in 1993.

MBL is more of an LA metal sound than Seattle Grunge. Mudhoney was indeed a pioneer, as was TotD, but the sound first emerged on SG's 'Louder than Love' in 1990.

However, until the first showing of Teen Spirit on MTV, those acts were music geeks' little secrets. So Nirvana 'started the era' in the sense of authoritatively announcing its arrival and dominance for the next 5 years. A week before, Guns 'n' Roses were undisputed and deserved cocks of the walk.

[DaneMcCloud]

The Beatles or Elvis Presley.

Only a Deejay would confuse the influence of these two artists.

Visit any Pro Audio/Engineering/Producing forum, whether it's Gearslutz or ProSoundWeb or Dave's Place or PSW and do a web search on Elvis or The Beatles. You'll get literally TEN MILLION threads about the Beatles, their recording process, overdubbing process, questions and answers from guys like Ken Scott and so on.

You'll find very few about Elvis.

Elvis was an AMAZING entertainer. He was and still is the coolest singer/frontman of all time, IMO. He's been copies but never duplicated. The man was a True Original.

The Beatles, on the other hand, not only changed popular music forever, they changed the way popular music was recorded and delivered. From syncing up multiple four-track machines to Abbey Road to George Martin to their competitive nature (Sgt. Peppers was a direct response to Pet Sounds) to visiting the Maharishi to using acid to expand their minds, to the British Invasion to the introduction of Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters and countless other "American" artists, The Beatles influence is unparalled.

I could spend hours commenting on innovations in sound recording and songwriting as it pertains to The Beatles but I won't. This is not the proper forum.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

No, they didn't.

The Seattle sound had been developing for the latter half of the 80's. Bands like Green River, Mudhoney and Soundgarden and so on. Soundgarden's "Badmotorfinger" was released in 1991 as well. The quintessential album of the 90's, IMO was Temple of the Dog, and it was released in 1990.

Pearl Jam was created from the bones of Green River and Mother Love Bone. While I believe that Pearl Jam ecompasses all that is early 90's "Grunge", Nirvana didn't start the trend.



Again, I fully disagree. And as far as "paying attention", you couldn't be further from the truth, especially since I began working for Uni in 1993.
Yes Nirvana did. I don't care what other bands did before them. Nirvana changed the landscape. Those other bands didn't. It's pretty simple.

Show me where your other examples changed the landscape of music... then or ever.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yes Nirvana did. I don't care what other bands did before them. Nirvana changed the landscape. Those other bands didn't. It's pretty simple.

No, they didn't.

You know who changed the "Landscape"? Geffen Records.

Not Nirvana.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Only a Deejay would confuse the influence of these two artists.Visit any Pro Audio/Engineering/Producing forum, whether it's Gearslutz or ProSoundWeb or Dave's Place or PSW and do a web search on Elvis or The Beatles. You'll get literally TEN MILLION threads about the Beatles, their recording process, overdubbing process, questions and answers from guys like Ken Scott and so on.

You'll find very few about Elvis.

Elvis was an AMAZING entertainer. He was and still is the coolest singer/frontman of all time, IMO. He's been copies but never duplicated. The man was a True Original.

The Beatles, on the other hand, not only changed popular music forever, they changed the way popular music was recorded and delivered. From syncing up multiple four-track machines to Abbey Road to George Martin to their competitive nature (Sgt. Peppers was a direct response to Pet Sounds) to visiting the Maharishi to using acid to expand their minds, to the British Invasion to the introduction of Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters and countless other "American" artists, The Beatles influence is unparalled.

Yeah that's what this is about. I swear if you were any dumber you couldn't even wright the english language.

[DaneMcCloud]

Show me where your other examples changed the landscape of music... then or ever.

The Beatles. Led Zeppelin.

But most importantly, Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss.

Why and who you ask? A&M Records.

I'll leave it up to you who I'm referring to and how it changed the music business forever.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

No, they didn't.

You know who changed the "Landscape"? Geffen Records.

Not Nirvana.

LMAO

Some people here just argue so they can look smart in their own minds. Show me the Geffen Records album genius.

[DaneMcCloud]

LMAO

Some people here just argue so they can look smart in their own minds. Show me the Geffen Records album genius.

Joking, right?

How long have you been in this business that you don't know that Geffen broke Nirvana?

JFC Dude, half the A&R people in this town were fired after Nirvana blew up because they had all heard Bleach and dismissed it as crap!

Seriously, you're out of your element. If you'd like me to embarrass you, fine. That wasn't my original intention.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The Beatles. Led Zeppelin.

But most importantly, Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss.

Why and who you ask? A&M Records.

I'll leave it up to you who I'm referring to and how it changed the music business forever.

The Beatles. Imagine that considering the thread topic.

Jerry Moss is right up there with the Beatles and Elvis though.

Seriously you and a few others should get a point now and then.

[tk13]

It's gotta be the Beatles. You could probably spend hours talking about how they changed music.

And I would give a nod to the Beach Boys as well. I've heard various artists refer to them positively. To tie it back to the prog thread believe it or not... I've heard the keyboardist of Genesis, Tony Banks, mention the Beach Boys in interviews before. Obviously musically it would seem a million miles apart, but I've seen him mention how the Beach Boys would do musically complex things and make them sound very simple, among other things. So you never know.

[DaneMcCloud]

Seriously you and a few others should get a point now and then.

Get a point? WTF?

I love how some small town hick Deejay thinks he knows everything about the music business.

It's sad and kinda funny at the same time.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Joking, right?

How long have you been in this business that you don't know that Geffen broke Nirvana?

JFC Dude, half the A&R people in this town were fired after Nirvana blew up because they had all heard Bleach and dismissed it as crap!

Seriously, you're out of your element. If you'd like me to embarrass you, fine. That wasn't my original intention.

This was never and isnt about labels dumbass. But if thats the card you have to play then go for it. Whatever makes you feel your arguement is right.

I've seen stupid before... then I've seen CP morons fighting to the last possible point.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Get a point? WTF?

I love how some small town hick Deejay thinks he knows everything about the music business.

It's sad and kinda funny at the same time.

I never claimed to know everything. If you can find where I did please enlighten all of us. I program 2 stations. One is in mid Illinois. The other is in Chicago. I do it from hicktown though so feel free to make your idiot assumptions.

[DaneMcCloud]

This was never and isnt about labels dumbass. But if thats the card you have to play then go for it. Whatever makes you feel your arguement is right.

I've seen stupid before... then I've seen CP morons fighting to the last possible point.

The most ridiculous aspect of your assertion is that Seattle grunge, whether it's Nirvana or Soundgarden or Pearl Jam, actually meant anything.

The genre was dead almost as quickly as it began.

Alanis Morrisette had a bigger and longer lasting impact on the music scene than any of the Seattle bands. Soundgarden disbanded in 1997 after a lackluster release, Pearl Jam's appeal faded dramatically after Vs. and Nirvana died when Kurt died.

"Grunge" is nothing more than a footnote in Rock & Roll history. You of ALL people should know that.

The band that benefited the most from the "Alt/Grunge" era was Smashing Pumpkins and even they couldn't sustain it.

[MOhillbilly]

Dude... Pearl Jam is the best of the 3.

Nirvana killed poodle rock and make the 'punk' attitude in music main stream.

[Baby Lee]

This was never and isnt about labels dumbass. But if thats the card you have to play then go for it. Whatever makes you feel your arguement is right.

I've seen stupid before... then I've seen CP morons fighting to the last possible point.

Well, the guy IS an audiophile, by which of course I mean he diddles kids. ;)

[DaneMcCloud]

However, until the first showing of Teen Spirit on MTV, those acts were music geeks' little secrets. So Nirvana 'started the era' in the sense of authoritatively announcing its arrival and dominance for the next 5 years. A week before, Guns 'n' Roses were undisputed and deserved cocks of the walk.

And IMO, Nirvana was just an extension of Guns 'N Roses, to the extent that it was about the visuals, the frontman, etc.

They were Cheap Trick for the 90's. And by that, I don't mean to insult Cheap Trick, which is a phenomenal band.

[Hammock Parties]

Elvis Presley stole all his music from black musicians.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The most ridiculous aspect of your assertion is that Seattle grunge, whether it's Nirvana or Soundgarden or Pearl Jam, actually meant anything.

The genre was dead almost as quickly as it began.

Alanis Morrisette had a bigger and longer lasting impact on the music scene than any of the Seattle bands. Soundgarden disbanded in 1997 after a lackluster release, Pearl Jam's appeal faded dramatically after Vs. and Nirvana died when Kurt died.

"Grunge" is nothing more than a footnote in Rock & Roll history. You of ALL people should know that.

The band that benefited the most from the "Alt/Grunge" era was Smashing Pumpkins and even they couldn't sustain it.

It meant something for a while. But you're Dane and you know best. We all know you'e the smartest person here because you say so, even if you're the dumbest person this side of CoMO.

Oh and check Pearl Jams realeases since you say they died.

[DaneMcCloud]

It meant something for a while. But you're Dane and you know best. We all know you'e the smartest person here because you say so, even if you're the dumbest person this side of CoMO.

Giving up that easy? Well, okay. Just more proof that your threads are worthless and lack conviction.

Good luck with that.

Oh and check Pearl Jams realeases since you say they died.

I never said anything about Pearl Jam's music: I alluded to their mass appeal, which is a mere fraction of what it was back in 1992-1994.

For the record, I saw Pearl Jam at the Gibson in the last year. The performance was absolutely amazing and was made even better when Chris Cornell joined them onstage for "Hunger Strike".

[Baby Lee]

Elvis Presley stole all his music from black musicians.

Claythan stole all his ideas from slightly smarter people on the internet.

[DaneMcCloud]

Elvis Presley stole all his music from black musicians.

He didn't "steal" anything. Royalties were paid, just as they were when the blues were covered by The Rolling Stones, Cream, The Beatles and just about anyone that ever covered previously publishing songs.

Copping someone's vibe isn't stealing.

[Baby Lee]

And IMO, Nirvana was just an extension of Guns 'N Roses, to the extent that it was about the visuals, the frontman, etc.

They were Cheap Trick for the 90's. And by that, I don't mean to insult Cheap Trick, which is a phenomenal band.

Honestly Dane, these are the words of someone who looks at music as a product to be marketed with no conception of the actual worth of the content.

You're coming off like Barton Fink's producers here.

[Brock]

Dude... Pearl Jam is the best of the 3.

Pearl Jam isn't the best of any 3 bands ever.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

This thread had good footing for a while. Then the usual asswads came in and made asswads of themselves again LOL.

I'm due at a funeral at 9am so Dane asswad can think I gave up if it makes him feel better about himself.

Good thread overall... thanks guys.

[Baby Lee]

He didn't "steal" anything. Royalties were paid, just as they were when the blues were covered by The Rolling Stones, Cream, The Beatles and just about anyone that ever covered previously publishing songs.

Copping someone's vibe isn't stealing.

Holy Shit. I'm a big supporter of remix culture, but I hold no fantasies that all previous rights holders were made whole.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zd-dqUuvLk4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There's shit ton that was repurposed without compensation. I've made my peace with it, but I don't claim righteousness.

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Kirby is a Ginger Chewbacca

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Giving up that easy? Well, okay. Just more proof that your threads are worthless and lack conviction.

Good luck with that.



I never said anything about Pearl Jam's music: I alluded to their mass appeal, which is a mere fraction of what it was back in 1992-1994.

For the record, I saw Pearl Jam at the Gibson in the last year. The performance was absolutely amazing and was made even better when Chris Cornell joined them onstage for "Hunger Strike".

You actually did. Dumbass.

[DaneMcCloud]

Honestly Dane, these are the words of someone who looks at music as a product to be marketed with no conception of the actual worth of the content.

You're coming off like Barton Fink's producers here.

Two words: Geffen Records.

[AustinChief]

The Beatles, on the other hand, not only changed popular music forever, they changed the way popular music was recorded and delivered. From syncing up multiple four-track machines to Abbey Road to George Martin to their competitive nature (Sgt. Peppers was a direct response to Pet Sounds) to visiting the Maharishi to using acid to expand their minds, to the British Invasion to the introduction of Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters and countless other "American" artists, The Beatles influence is unparalled.

And as I have pointed out. This is mostly wrong. (depending on how you are defining influence) Yes, there were a few incremental things they did but nothing as big as the likes of the Beach Boys or Phil Spector. I will say, Geoff Emerick (engineer for the Beatles on their most "groundbreaking" stuff) was/is one of the best to ever live. So they have that.

To be clear, I am a HUGE beatles fan... which is why I know the subject matter and can point out other artists who were responsible for FAR AND AWAY more innovation in the industry. The Beatles just did everything so damn WELL that they get more credit than they often deserve.

[DaneMcCloud]

You actually did. Dumbass.

Where?

I said their mass appeal greatly faded. I made absolutely no mention of their music.

Dumbass.

Pearl Jam's appeal faded dramatically after Vs.

[DaneMcCloud]

And as I have pointed out. This is mostly wrong.

LMAO

I cannot even begin to tell you just how wrong you are, so I won't even bother.

But, check out Brian Kehew's "Recording The Beatles" book, which is a must read for any and every studio engineer, producer and even musician and check back in.

Furthermore, Ken Scott was more influential than Emerick, but we're splitting hairs. Abbey Road, EMI consoles, the engineers, etc. pretty much defined modern music and there are a countless number of worshippers along with people still chasing those recordings.

[Baby Lee]

Two words: Geffen Records.

You tell them: BULLSHIT! We do NOT make B music here at Geffin. Let's put a stop to that rumor RIGHT now!

[DaneMcCloud]

This thread had good footing for a while. Then the usual asswads came in and made asswads of themselves again LOL.

I'm due at a funeral at 9am so Dane asswad can think I gave up if it makes him feel better about himself.

Good thread overall... thanks guys.

LMAO

Yeah, I'm an "asswad" because I called out your nonsense.

Is this how you always end threads? Take your ball and go home? What a fucking sore loser.

[KChiefer]

Voted Beatles.

A while back PBS did a special called John Lennon's Jukebox. I really enjoyed it! They also released a compilation CD by the same name. The one thing I will always remember for it was them talking about a Gary "US" Bonds song called Watch Your Step. When I heard it, there is a riff that Led Zepplin directly lifted. I can't recall the name of the Zep song. Anyways, it showed me the back and forth between American artists influencing English artists which in turn influenced American artists.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/lennon/index.html

PS: Sitting here watching SNL and Frank Ocean just ended his song by playing an arcade game while John Mayer played a guitar solo. We've come a long way baby! :doh!:

[Brock]

You tell them: BULLSHIT! We do NOT make B music here at Geffin. Let's put a stop to that rumor RIGHT now!

These are big albums. We don't put Wallace Beery on some fruity record about suffering.

[DaneMcCloud]

Holy Shit. I'm a big supporter of remix culture, but I hold no fantasies that all previous rights holders were made whole.

There's shit ton that was repurposed without compensation. I've made my peace with it, but I don't claim righteousness.

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Kirby is a Ginger Chewbacca

We've gone through this before: Copyright law is Lyric and Melody. If those songs were published and copyrighted, the original rights holders should have been compensated.

Now, I cannot claim with any accuracy that those songwriter in the video you provided were paid properly. What I can tell you is that since at least 1993, if there's a copyright/sample/whatever dispute, NO ONE gets paid until they're properly cleared.

Publishers usually work out all the details before songs are released on major labels and I'd imagine that if an Indie label released a record or song in which the label hadn't cleared the samples, they'd be slapped with an immediate injunction. Fortunately, that stuff doesn't happen to often any more.

[Baby Lee]

We've gone through this before: Copyright law is Lyric and Melody. If those songs were published and copyrighted, the original rights holders should have been compensated.

Now, I cannot claim with any accuracy that those songwriter in the video you provided were paid properly. What I can tell you is that since at least 1993, if there's a copyright/sample/whatever dispute, NO ONE gets paid until they're properly cleared.

Publishers usually work out all the details before songs are released on major labels and I'd imagine that if an Indie label released a record or song in which the label hadn't cleared the samples, they'd be slapped with an immediate injunction. Fortunately, that stuff doesn't happen to often any more.

Are you telling us you have proof that Elvis was alive AND MAKING NEW MUSIC after 1993? That is AMAZING!!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

You tell them: BULLSHIT! We do NOT make B music here at Geffin. Let's put a stop to that rumor RIGHT now!

Dude, the amount of marketing and promotion dollars (including the initial video) that went into Nirvana was astonishing.

Hell, Pearl Jam's record had been released in late 1991 with no fanfare. I saw them on the KU Campus in Spring 1992 for FREE. It wasn't until Eddie Vedder publicly lambasted Sony Records for putting all their money into the Spin Doctors that they began promoting Pearl Jam.

[DaneMcCloud]

Are you telling us you have proof that Elvis was alive AND MAKING NEW MUSIC after 1993? That is AMAZING!!!!

What? What did I miss?

[Baby Lee]

Dude, the amount of marketing and promotion dollars (including the initial video) that went into Nirvana was astonishing.

Hell, Pearl Jam's record had been released in late 1991 with no fanfare. I saw them on the KU Campus in Spring 1992 for FREE. It wasn't until Eddie Vedder publicly lambasted Sony Records for putting all their money into the Spin Doctors that they began promoting Pearl Jam.

No, no, no. You are right, art isn't art until it's properly promoted.

[DaneMcCloud]

No, no, no. You are right, art isn't art until it's properly promoted.

Oh boy.

[Baby Lee]

What? What did I miss?

You started off stating Elvis didn't steal shit, then backed it up with not knowing shit about IP compensation of the era and assuring us that everything has been copacetic since 1993.

Just following your line of assurance.

[DaneMcCloud]

You started off stating Elvis didn't steal shit, then backed it up with not knowing shit about IP compensation of the era and assuring us that everything has been copacetic since 1993.

Just following your line of assurance.

I'd like for you to prove to me that Elvis stole intellectual property.

I'd like for you to prove to me that Bob Dylan stole IP.

I'd also like for you to prove to me that since 1993, things haven't been "copacetic".

Thanks in advance.

[Baby Lee]

Is this how you always end threads? Take your ball and go home? What a fucking sore loser.

Fore posterity's sake, before the victory laps commence, may I observe that it's fucking SUNDAY for the bulk of America?

[Psyko Tek]

rather listen to eddie and the cruisers

[DaneMcCloud]

Fore posterity's sake, before the victory laps commence, may I observe that it's fucking SUNDAY for the bulk of America?

And that means?

:shrug:

[|Zach|]

This isn't really a response to the OP but talking about producing and recording which I don't have any first hand knowledge of I find myself *really* drawn to the old "wall of sound" Phil Spectorish style of songs. That shit never gets old for me.

I always love hearing it in The Ronettes and Beach Boys stuff and it seems to my untrained ear to show up in some newer work especially with Grizzly Bear and The Morning Benders.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QzhbGaCwBzs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So rich and enjoyable. Just fantastic.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aeE82XyNkyM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Baby Lee]

And that means?

:shrug:

Inital typos aside, there may be some merit to people tapping out.


I for one am forestalling my long anticipated preview of Homeland [thanks SHO online] to continue what was recently an interesting discussion, and has recently devolved into an inane rehash.

[rico]

Giving up that easy? Well, okay. Just more proof that your threads are worthless and lack conviction.

Good luck with that.



I never said anything about Pearl Jam's music: I alluded to their mass appeal, which is a mere fraction of what it was back in 1992-1994.

For the record, I saw Pearl Jam at the Gibson in the last year. The performance was absolutely amazing and was made even better when Chris Cornell joined them onstage for "Hunger Strike".

That had to have been AWESOME. Temple of a Dog, right? Did Temple of a Dog have a member of Screaming Trees, or am I confusing them with Mad Season? Speaking of Screaming Trees, I prefer them over about any band in that genre/era with an exception of Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots.

[|Zach|]

Don't a lot of musicians point to Warren Zevon as a big influence. Not more so than the options above but it seems like this is the least talked about influential artists that artists look to themselves.

[AustinChief]

LMAO

I cannot even begin to tell you just how wrong you are, so I won't even bother.

But, check out Brian Kehew's "Recording The Beatles" book, which is a must read for any and every studio engineer, producer and even musician and check back in.

Furthermore, Ken Scott was more influential than Emerick, but we're splitting hairs. Abbey Road, EMI consoles, the engineers, etc. pretty much defined modern music and there are a countless number of worshippers along with people still chasing those recordings.

You can begin to tell me and you'll be wrong. Sorry but this is something I have studied as well and I can go line by line and point out someone BEFORE who influenced and did more in almost every single instance of innovation. Of course, there will be some things where you have to give the nod to the Beatles but MOST of it is based on popularity and execution not on true innovation.

Hey, I love the Beatles but there is a cult-like mentality around them that tends to disregard or downplay all the facts.

let's look at one big "innovation".. ADT.. well it certainly is a major convenience.. all it does is make something that was being done for years, easier to do. That's great and all but not a "push the envelope" type of innovation that I am going to count for much.

Compare that to the Beach Boys TRULY pushing forward the use of multi-tracking. Which of course was an extension of Phil Spector's work. The Beatles made incremental improvements but nothing as drastic as either of them.

And I still think Emerick is a better engineer! :D

[Baby Lee]

That had to have been AWESOME. Temple of a Dog, right? Did Temple of a Dog have a member of Screaming Trees, or am I confusing them with Mad Season? Speaking of Screaming Trees, I prefer them over about any band in that genre/era with an exception of Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY thrashes like Temple of the Stone Screaming Chain Seasons.

[AustinChief]

Don't a lot of musicians point to Warren Zevon as a big influence. Not more so than the options above but it seems like this is the least talked about influential artists that artists look to themselves.

yep, and Gordon Lightfoot and Elvis Costello and here is an obscure one.. but they were MASSIVELY influential.. The Kingston trio.

EDIT: I just saw you mentioned Phil Spector.. I have been harping on him all thread. Crazy amount of influence and innovation from him.

Surprised that no one has mentioned Zappa or Captain Beefheart.

[|Zach|]

yep, and Gordon Lightfoot and Elvis Costello and here is an obscure one.. but they were MASSIVELY influential.. The Kingston trio.

Love Elvis Costello...Lightfoot is a bit hit or miss with me.

[Baby Lee]

Don't a lot of musicians point to Warren Zevon as a big influence. Not more so than the options above but it seems like this is the least talked about influential artists that artists look to themselves.

Love Elvis Costello...Lightfoot is a bit hit or miss with me.

John Prine, Leonard Cohen, Frank Black, blah blah, late 80's blah. ;)

[|Zach|]

John Prine, Leonard Cohen, Frank Black, blah blah, late3 80s blah. ;)

I often don't understand why I connect with some artists and don't connect with others. I have been trying to seek out those common threads for so long and it fails me.

[AustinChief]

Love Elvis Costello...Lightfoot is a bit hit or miss with me.

Costello is amazing.. Lightfoot is Canadian.. so you know, he is gonna do some crap... amazing that a filthy Canuck did as well as he did though! :D

Of course at this point we are moving more into the songwriting realm.. where you'd have to mention guys like John Denver or JimmY Webb

[|Zach|]

I often don't understand why I connect with some artists and don't connect with others. I have been trying to seek out those common threads for so long and it fails me.

Singer song writer stuff is huge with me though which makes a lot of those artists big on my list but leaves me glad I am living here in the now because a lot of good stuff is coming down the pipeline.

[Baby Lee]

I often don't understand why I connect with some artists and don't connect with others. I have been trying to seek out those common threads for so long and it fails me.

So I'm clear. So many of these acts are near and dear to my heart. My mocking tone is more to the sense that this discussion is BRAND NEW INFORMATION, while earlier in the thread it was a bit more. This thread seems to be simultaneously losing it's burst and finding it's [cliched] rhythym.

[|Zach|]

Costello is amazing.. Lightfoot is Canadian.. so you know, he is gonna do some crap... amazing that a filthy Canuck did as well as he did though! :D

Of course at this point we are moving more into the songwriting realm.. where you'd have to mention guys like John Denver or JimmY Webb

Nick Drake. Not real sure on his influence but sure of my enjoyment of the music.

[|Zach|]

I respect the impact Elvis had but I don't get a lot of enjoyment from the music. Just never loved it.

[MOhillbilly]

Black Flag influenced a Shit load of acts.

[Baby Lee]

I respect the impact Elvis had but I don't get a lot of enjoyment from the music. Just never loved it.

OK, at this point confusion creeps in.



Costello or Presley?

[|Zach|]

OK, at this point confusion creeps in.



Costello or Presley?

Costello. Hands down. That has no bearing on popularity or impact just me sitting down and enjoying music.

[Baby Lee]

Black Flag influenced a Shit load of acts.

Shit, I haven't even opened up my Fugazi, Smiths, Pixies, Sonic Youth, Flag, Husker Du bag yet.


Simmer Down Now!!!

[Baby Lee]

Costello. Hands down. That has no bearing on popularity or impact just me sitting down and enjoying music.

I put Costello right around Cohen, with a major elevation d/t his Radio stunt on SNL.

[|Zach|]

I put Costello right around Cohen, with a major elevation d/t his Radio stunt on SNL.

That is fair. Though I like Costello's fringe and new ideas while being popular enough to stay relevant. I see Cohen as a great but safer act.

[DaneMcCloud]

You can begin to tell me and you'll be wrong.

LMAO (This isn't a sarcastic laugh but a laugh from the heart)

If you're ever in LA, give me a buzz. I have several Grammy winning engineers and producer friends that would fight you to the death over your words. Me? I'm not nearly that passionate about it. I respect The Beatles, Martin, Emerick, Scott, the EMI & Abbey Road guys but I don't and won't defend them 'til death.

And as for the Beach Boys, YES. They don't get nearly the pub for their innovative songwriting and recordings publicly as they should.

One of my friends manages Brian Wilson. JFC, the stories I could tell...

:D

[DaneMcCloud]

Elvis Costello and here is an obscure one.

Elvis Costello is a genius of epic proportions. It's unfortunate that he probably won't be recognized as such until years after his passing but he will be recognized.

[Baby Lee]

That is fair. Though I like Costello's fringe and new ideas while being popular enough to stay relevant. I see Cohen as a great but safer act.

I view Cohen as a poet who cannot sing.

Cohen's Hallelujah is beginning to rival McCartney for covers, on the simple premise that telling you what the song is doing to you is sufficient catharsis, while Costello's 'watching the detectives' only reminds you that reggae can be slowed down is weaker sauce.

[|Zach|]

Sorry to take this convo a million ways but...one artist I really love that I think should get more credit is Josh Rouse. This seems to be shared by almost nobody.

That an Jude...but my case for Jude is much weaker...fell in love with an album in the late 90's and have been waiting for that quality since.

[rico]

Elvis Costello is a genius of epic proportions. It's unfortunate that he probably won't be recognized as such until years after his passing but he will be recognized.

I bought this "Storytellers VH1" CD at Goodwill and ended up loving it. One of the songs is Elvis Costello. I think it's called, "just a memory," but I'm not sure. The chorus goes, "losing you, is just a memory, memories don't mean that much to me." I scream that song at the top of my longs when I hear it. And ya know what? That is the only Elvis Costello song I've ever heard. I want to check out more of it. Which songs/albums do I start with?

[DaneMcCloud]

That had to have been AWESOME. Temple of a Dog, right? Did Temple of a Dog have a member of Screaming Trees, or am I confusing them with Mad Season? Speaking of Screaming Trees, I prefer them over about any band in that genre/era with an exception of Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots.

Temple of the Dog included members of Mother Love Bone (Jeff Ament and Stone Gossage), Chris Cornell and Matt Cameron of Soundgarden and their friend, Mike McCready. The record was recorded in eight days, over the course of four weekends.

I have a long winded story about Eddie Vedder/Scott Weiland, both of which originated from the same band/guitarist/visionary from San Diego. It was no coincidence that they initially sounded the "same" back in 1992...

[AustinChief]

Elvis Costello is a genius of epic proportions. It's unfortunate that he probably won't be recognized as such until years after his passing but he will be recognized.

Now we are talking! I am a crazy stalker-esque Elvis Costello fan. To the point of not only having pretty much any and all recording but also tracking down any OTHER artists he mentions as an influence or person he likes and studying them as well. yeah I know, sad.

It was Costello that turned me on to the Specials, the Pogues, Nick Lowe, Chet Baker, the Flying Burrito Brothers, the Louvin Brothers, Jesse Winchester and countless others...

OH and Aimee Mann... here is one of my favorite songs that they wrote together.. if anyone is interested.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zyQlFpofGkA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[AustinChief]

LMAO (This isn't a sarcastic laugh but a laugh from the heart)

If you're ever in LA, give me a buzz. I have several Grammy winning engineers and producer friends that would fight you to the death over your words. Me? I'm not nearly that passionate about it. I respect The Beatles, Martin, Emerick, Scott, the EMI & Abbey Road guys but I don't and won't defend them 'til death.

And as for the Beach Boys, YES. They don't get nearly the pub for their innovative songwriting and recordings publicly as they should.

One of my friends manages Brian Wilson. JFC, the stories I could tell...

:D

I'll have to take you up on that! I bet I could hold my own in that fight!

And once again, I am not trying at all to denigrate the Beatles or any of the engineers mentioned. I absolutely love them and the product produced. I just think the record could be set a little more straight. :D

[DaneMcCloud]

I'll have to take you up on that! I bet I could hold my own in that fight!

And once again, I am not trying at all to denigrate the Beatles or any of the engineers mentioned. I absolutely love them and the product produced. I just think the record could be set a little more straight. :D

LOL. Again, not as an insult.

I must warn you that these guys are fucking brutal. I like and respect The Beatles, while admittedly, not being a fan. But those that are fans: Watch out!

http://www.recordingthebeatles.com/

This is an absolutely phenomenal book that I highly recommend to any Beatles aficionado. Not only is there specific information about what microphone was used for several recordings, the photographs are worth the price of admission alone.

And Brian is an amazing producer and archivist/mastering engineer in his own right.

[AustinChief]

I bought this "Storytellers VH1" CD at Goodwill and ended up loving it. One of the songs is Elvis Costello. I think it's called, "just a memory," but I'm not sure. The chorus goes, "losing you, is just a memory, memories don't mean that much to me." I scream that song at the top of my longs when I hear it. And ya know what? That is the only Elvis Costello song I've ever heard. I want to check out more of it. Which songs/albums do I start with?

Well sir.. you have come to the right place!

Here is the problem.. Elvis Costello has done it all. His music spans so many different styles and genres that it's hard to just say "start here." BUT at least we have a starting point with "Just a Memory." That came from Get Happy! his 4th album. That song is slower than the typical songs on that album. So if you want that style, you will want to go forward in time with his work rather than going back. That style is closer (imho) to Trust or what is often considered the greatest EC album (produced by Geoff Emerick) Imperial Bedroom.

If you want I can suggest some favorite songs and see if they are on YouTube. Oh, another good "starter" album I have found is King of America. it really defines the "middle" of his career for me and is just a damn good album.

[rico]

yep, and Gordon Lightfoot and Elvis Costello and here is an obscure one.. but they were MASSIVELY influential.. The Kingston trio.

EDIT: I just saw you mentioned Phil Spector.. I have been harping on him all thread. Crazy amount of influence and innovation from him.

Surprised that no one has mentioned Zappa or Captain Beefheart.

I've noticed that a lot of musicians mention David Bowie as being influential. Fred Neil is another one. Heck, he wrote the original "Everybody's Talking" popularized by Nilsson. Totally awesome. His most popular song is probably the song that played on the Sopranos when Chris relapsed at a carnival setting. Song is called "The Dolphins." Good shit.

Jeff Buckley is a semi-recent obscure musician that I notice many artists reference as being influential. Most notably Thom Yorke. I heard that he was one of the contributing factors that prompted Radiohead to move on from their "Pablo Honey" sound in terms of vocals. Many hardcore Buckley fans claim that you can notice Yorke channeling Buckley in Kid A.

Noticed that there are a lot of connections with the bands I have mentioned in this thread:

Nilsson: worked with John Lennon and when the members of the Beatles were asked who their favorite American musician was, one or more of them instantly replied, "Nilsson." Nilsson covered a Fred Neil Song called "Everybody's Talking." Bob Dylan, before becoming Bob Dylan, played harmonica for Fred Neil. Jeff Buckley's father, (Tim), covered "The Dolphins." Stone Temple Pilots front man has mentioned David Bowie being his most prominent musical influence. Same with Trent Reznor (my all time favorite musician). David Bowie mentioned Jeff Buckley's "Grace" album as 1 of 5 he would choose to have with him on a deserted island. Thom Yorke reportedly is a huge fan of Buckley and has been accused of channeling him. Scott Weiland is a huge Radiohead fan....claimed that the OK Computer album was contributory in getting him through one of his rehab stints.

Another band that I've noticed referenced as being influential to other artists: Joy Division.

Here is "The Dolphins" by Fred Neil. Great song. Obscure as hell. Below it is the original version of "Everybody's Talkin'."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RP4wnGTwLtg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KiR5NQoqWns" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DaneMcCloud]

Inital typos aside, there may be some merit to people tapping out.


I for one am forestalling my long anticipated preview of Homeland [thanks SHO online] to continue what was recently an interesting discussion, and has recently devolved into an inane rehash.

Au contraire

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=263696

[rico]

Temple of the Dog included members of Mother Love Bone (Jeff Ament and Stone Gossage), Chris Cornell and Matt Cameron of Soundgarden and their friend, Mike McCready. The record was recorded in eight days, over the course of four weekends.

I have a long winded story about Eddie Vedder/Scott Weiland, both of which originated from the same band/guitarist/visionary from San Diego. It was no coincidence that they initially sounded the "same" back in 1992...

I've seen the Vedder/Weiland debate quite a few times.... many people debating back and forth whether or not Weiland ripped Vedder's vocal style. I am glad Weiland started mixing it up on "Purple." Heck, one of my favorite all time songs is a very, very obscure song by STP on the under-appreciated No. 4 album called, "I Got You." I think everything about that song is just...amazing...I absolutely love the lyrics to that song.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9fGoJOIrygY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[rico]

Well sir.. you have come to the right place!

Here is the problem.. Elvis Costello has done it all. His music spans so many different styles and genres that it's hard to just say "start here." BUT at least we have a starting point with "Just a Memory." That came from Get Happy! his 4th album. That song is slower than the typical songs on that album. So if you want that style, you will want to go forward in time with his work rather than going back. That style is closer (imho) to Trust or what is often considered the greatest EC album (produced by Geoff Emerick) Imperial Bedroom.

If you want I can suggest some favorite songs and see if they are on YouTube. Oh, another good "starter" album I have found is King of America. it really defines the "middle" of his career for me and is just a damn good album.

Awesome, you've got me stoked about this.

[AustinChief]

Ok here is a good primer on the Imperial Bedroom album...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J76dprNEOgE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZrX7J9wN8Mk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Let me know if you want darker, or more melodic, or more upbeat... I can steer ya in the right direction!

The more I think about it, this album or Trust or Armed Forces really should be decent starting points.. unless you want the REALLY raw (by raw I mean emotionally not musically) stuff... then we'd want to try out the first two albums.

[DaneMcCloud]

I've seen the Vedder/Weiland debate quite a few times

Please send me a PM. I can't guarantee that I'll respond immediately but I'll give a few details.

Essentially, a guy named Keith from San Diego heard a new sound and sought out a singer that would be sing what he heard in his head.

You may not know Keith's name but his music can be heard all over cable and network TV.

Sometimes, things don't work as we planned but fortunately, they turn out better.

[rico]

Ok here is a good primer on the Imperial Bedroom album...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J76dprNEOgE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZrX7J9wN8Mk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Let me know if you want darker, or more melodic, or more upbeat... I can steer ya in the right direction!

The more I think about it, this album or Trust or Armed Forces really should be decent starting points.. unless you want the REALLY raw (by raw I mean emotionally not musically) stuff... then we'd want to try out the first two albums.

Both vids = awesome. I am now listening to some more of his songs on youtube.

[rico]

Please send me a PM. I can't guarantee that I'll respond immediately but I'll give a few details.

Essentially, a guy named Keith from San Diego heard a new sound and sought out a singer that would be sing what he heard in his head.

You may not know Keith's name but his music can be heard all over cable and network TV.

Sometimes, things don't work as we planned but fortunately, they turn out better.

I am officially Curious freaking George. Been a fan of both bands for years. My dad of all people, who is 52 years old, got me into both bands when I was 8-9 years old.

[AustinChief]

Just to cover my bases.. here are some later songs of Costello's

So Like Candy - 1991
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dgyPs5bS3DM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Why Can't a Man Stand Alone -1996
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/poXaa5RDMSI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ok, to be clear, I'm trying to "match" the tone of the song you mentioned.. there are SO MANY more that are completely different. This is by no means an accurate "sample" of the breadth of his work.