Minnesota man who killed teens in break-in charged with murder

[NIUhuskies]

wow, this sounds pretty messed up... Cant tell if his guy is nuts or if these kids were on drugs

By NBC News staff and wire services

A 64-year-old Minnesota man was charged Monday with murder for killing two teenagers who he said broke into his Little Falls home, shooting them in the head, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported.

AP file

Byron David Smith was arrested after he told police he shot and killed two teenagers who he said were breaking into his home on Thanksgiving Day.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Byron David Smith of Little Falls told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

Smith was charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17, both of Little Falls. The teens were shot on Thanksgiving Day, but their deaths weren't reported until Friday.
Advertise | AdChoices

Brady has also used the name Schaeffel, which is his mother’s maiden name, at times for family reasons, according to the sheriff's office.

In the criminal complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his remote home about 10 miles southwest of Little Falls when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Fearful after several break-ins, according to the complaint, Smith said he fired when Brady came into view from the waist down.

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.

Smith said he tried to shoot her again with his Mini 14 rifle, but that the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

"Smith stated that it was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting," according to the complaint.

Smith said he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to Brady, and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium."

"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the compliant, but also that he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."

The following day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

A prosecutor called Smith's reaction "appalling."

"Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a matter that goes well beyond self-defense," Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said after Smith appeared at Morrison County District Court on Monday morning. Bail was set at $2 million.

Follow @NBCNewsUS

Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.

Smith's actions "sound like an execution" rather than legitimate self-defense, said David Pecchia, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association. Pecchia said his statements to investigators suggest he had eliminated any threat to his safety by wounding the cousins.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis that the incident was the eighth burglary at Byron Smith's home in recent years.

The only report the Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth more than $3,000 and a ring worth $300.

Little Falls is about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis.

Brady's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, attended Smith's hearing. She told the Star Tribune she wished the man had fired a warning shot or alerted the police instead of shooting the teens.

"It wasn't right for them to be there and, yes, he had a right to defend himself. But to execute them like that..."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/26/15458995-minnesota-man-who-killed-teens-in-break-in-charged-with-murder?lite

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/121126-byron-david-smith-kb-1045a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/c66.66.828.828/s160x160/542546_4301532452746_1665621193_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-snc6/c30.44.373.373/s160x160/251507_359054280840301_1963281024_n.jpg

[saphojunkie]

What a sick piece of shit.

[gblowfish]

Everybody involved here in this one is wrong. Kids are wrong for breaking and entering. The home owner was wrong for executing two teenagers. He could have stopped them without killing them.

[Sorter]

The guy waited like a week didn't he before calling da police?

He's fucked up IMO.

However, you break into someones house, expect negative consequences that included but are not limited to a bullet to teh face.

[kcfanXIII]

i don't understand the murder charges. those teens gave up their rights when they broke into a home that wasn't theirs.

edit: i do agree he screwed up by not calling police immediately, and he handled it wrong. the executions may have been over the line.

[notorious]

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.





This quote gives him life in prison.

[notorious]

i don't understand the murder charges. those teens gave up their rights when they broke into a home that wasn't theirs.

edit: i do agree he screwed up by not calling police immediately, and he handled it wrong. the executions may have been over the line.

Good edit. I was about to explain it to you.


The executions ARE over the line.

[Brock]

the executions may have been over the line.

Oh, do you think so?

[kcfanXIII]

Oh, do you think so?

and it all could have been avoided if he were a better shot. if the shot to the face is the only wound, this is a non story, other than man protects house from intruders.

[notorious]

and it all could have been avoided if he were a better shot. if the shot to the face is the only wound, this is a non story, other than man protects house from intruders.

Nobody has any idea how hard of a shot he had. Head shots are a lot harder than they look on a moving person.

[Spott]

There's some holes in this guys story.

[ModSocks]

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/c66.66.828.828/s160x160/542546_4301532452746_1665621193_n.jpg



Waste of good snatch

[Brock]

and it all could have been avoided if he were a better shot. if the shot to the face is the only wound, this is a non story, other than man protects house from intruders.

You mean man protects house from intruders and leaves their dead bodies in his basement overnight before calling police then brags about it to cops like a sociopathic killer.

[kcfanXIII]

Nobody has any idea how hard of a shot he had. Head shots are a lot harder than they look on a moving person.

i get that. still, if the first shot was the kill shot, he's ok. it was the repeated shots that screwed him. still don't think he should really be charged with anything. a man has a right to protect his home. even if it had been just the one previous break in, with over 10,000 dollars worth of losses i'm sure he'd been steaming about it for a while, and he saw his chance to make sure he wasn't taken advantage of again.

[Saul Good]

wow, this sounds pretty messed up... Cant tell if his guy is nuts or if these kids were on drugs

By NBC News staff and wire services

A 64-year-old Minnesota man was charged Monday with murder for killing two teenagers who he said broke into his Little Falls home, shooting them in the head, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported.

AP file

Byron David Smith was arrested after he told police he shot and killed two teenagers who he said were breaking into his home on Thanksgiving Day.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Byron David Smith of Little Falls told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

Smith was charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17, both of Little Falls. The teens were shot on Thanksgiving Day, but their deaths weren't reported until Friday.
Advertise | AdChoices

Brady has also used the name Schaeffel, which is his mother’s maiden name, at times for family reasons, according to the sheriff's office.

In the criminal complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his remote home about 10 miles southwest of Little Falls when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Fearful after several break-ins, according to the complaint, Smith said he fired when Brady came into view from the waist down.

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.

Smith said he tried to shoot her again with his Mini 14 rifle, but that the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

"Smith stated that it was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting," according to the complaint.

Smith said he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to Brady, and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium."

"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the compliant, but also that he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."

The following day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

A prosecutor called Smith's reaction "appalling."

"Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a matter that goes well beyond self-defense," Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said after Smith appeared at Morrison County District Court on Monday morning. Bail was set at $2 million.

Follow @NBCNewsUS

Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.

Smith's actions "sound like an execution" rather than legitimate self-defense, said David Pecchia, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association. Pecchia said his statements to investigators suggest he had eliminated any threat to his safety by wounding the cousins.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis that the incident was the eighth burglary at Byron Smith's home in recent years.

The only report the Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth more than $3,000 and a ring worth $300.

Little Falls is about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis.

Brady's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, attended Smith's hearing. She told the Star Tribune she wished the man had fired a warning shot or alerted the police instead of shooting the teens.

"It wasn't right for them to be there and, yes, he had a right to defend himself. But to execute them like that..."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/26/15458995-minnesota-man-who-killed-teens-in-break-in-charged-with-murder?lite

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/121126-byron-david-smith-kb-1045a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/c66.66.828.828/s160x160/542546_4301532452746_1665621193_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-snc6/c30.44.373.373/s160x160/251507_359054280840301_1963281024_n.jpg

This could be a tragedy, but I'll need to see better pics of the girl to be sure.

[kcfanXIII]

You mean man protects house from intruders and leaves their dead bodies in his basement overnight before calling police then brags about it to cops like a sociopathic killer.

hold on there buddy. go back and reread my post. the guy isn't totally innocent. he probably needs mental help, but i don't think he's a criminal for shooting the intruders.

[Brock]

hold on there buddy. go back and reread my post. the guy isn't totally innocent. he probably needs mental help, but i don't think he's a criminal for shooting the intruders.

I'm disputing your assertion that if he were a better shot, this would be a non-story.

[Dartgod]

WTF is wrong with his eyes?

[Iowanian]

I don't blame the man for defending himself from intruders. Breaking into someone's home SHOULD be dangerous for you and they lose their right to safety when they break in.

That said....Holy shit did this guy do it badly. He deserves some punishment, shooting them in defense is fine....the up close, dragging bodies around and waiting a day and then using the tone he did is sociopathic.

[Buck]

The "I want him dead" and the execution shot of the girl warrant murder.

[kcfanXIII]

I'm disputing your assertion that if he were a better shot, this would be a non-story.

if he is being charged with murder for fatally shooting already incapacitated victims, then yes, the fact he didn't kill with first shot makes a difference. he did in fact screw up by not reporting to police immediately. does he seem to have psychological issues, yes. however if he doesn't have to execute them (because his first shot was a kill shot) this is just a story of a mentally troubled individual protecting his home, and he isn't being charged with murder.

[notorious]

i get that. still, if the first shot was the kill shot, he's ok. it was the repeated shots that screwed him. .

/thread

[FAX]

Apparently, he's part mole. Probably why he hangs out in his basement on Thanksgiving roasting grubs.

The moral of this story is, don't break into a house to steal stuff when the crazy, malicious, psychopathic owner is in residence and packing.

It is interesting, though. If the guy had been using a more powerful weapon ... say a 30.06, or something ... they would be dead and he would be free to go. There's a whole lot wrong with this story. The girl "laughs" at him after being shot? He drags the bodies around and leaves them overnight? He asks his neighbor to call the police?

It makes you wonder if those kids broke in his house at all.

FAX

[unlurking]

/thread
He shot them when there legs/hips came into view as they were coming down the stairs. My guess is he didn't want to wait for a body/head shot in case they were armed (he was robbed of two guns a month prior, probably the same kids).

[Brock]

Apparently, he's part mole. Probably why he hangs out in his basement on Thanksgiving roasting grubs.

The moral of this story is, don't break into a house to steal stuff when the crazy, malicious, psychopathic owner is in residence and packing.

It is interesting, though. If the guy had been using a more powerful weapon ... say a 30.06, or something ... they would be dead and he would be free to go. There's a whole lot wrong with this story. The girl "laughs" at him after being shot? He drags the bodies around and leaves them overnight? He asks his neighbor to call the police?

It makes you wonder if those kids broke in his house at all.

FAX

He's a fucking psycho.

[kcfanXIII]

He's a fucking psycho.

even psychos have a right to defend their homes.

[Chiefspants]

even psychos have a right to defend their homes.

There is a clear line in the sand on this issue.

[crazycoffey]

damn, he's clearly lost a few marbles, but do you all think he deseves the same murder sentencing as someone who breaks into a house and executes the residents?

[Brock]

even psychos have a right to defend their homes.

Don't kid yourself. There are limits to what you can do to protect your property.

[Jenson71]

Who gets shot and then laughs moments later because the second shot was jammed?

[NIUhuskies]

Who gets shot and then laughs moments later because the second shot was jammed?

especially an 18 year old girl???? thats just bizarre

[kcfanXIII]

Don't kid yourself. There are limits to what you can do to protect your property.

depends on the state, on whether there is a flight before fight clause in the castle doctrine adopted by the state you are residing in. missouri's is far more favorable to the resident, we don't have to prove the intruder a threat.

[Rain Man]

The outcome is good - two less criminals in the world - but he probably could've handled it a little better.

[Rain Man]

Who gets shot and then laughs moments later because the second shot was jammed?


She was probably high on marijuana.

[|Zach|]

Story does not make sense to me.

[crazycoffey]

damn, he's clearly lost a few marbles, but do you all think he deseves the same murder sentencing as someone who breaks into a house and executes the residents?


what about compared to a drunk driver that hits and kills two teenagers in a car accident. Is this more, equal or less disturbing?

[ModSocks]

Who gets shot and then laughs moments later because the second shot was jammed?

Shrug. It's possible. Ever get punched in the face and then laugh about it because you don't want the other person having the gratification from knowing they hurt you?

I have. It's usually followed up with a "you hit like a bitch".

[ModSocks]

The outcome is not good. One less slutty vagina in the world

FYP

[Brock]

what about compared to a drunk driver that hits and kills two teenagers in a car accident. Is this more, equal or less disturbing?

Aside from the whole cold-blooded grabbing another gun when the first one jammed to fire a few execution shots into a person?

[crazycoffey]

Aside from the whole cold-blooded grabbing another gun when the first one jammed to fire a few execution shots into a person?

so you rate it "more disturbing"? I was only asking

maybe he thought he would end her suffering

[ModSocks]

maybe he thought he would end her suffering

Lol.

Only on Chiefsplanet do we get these gems.

[crazycoffey]

Lol.

Only on Chiefsplanet do we get these gems.

I wish I could blame CP alone for the warping, but alas

[notorious]

He shot them when there legs/hips came into view as they were coming down the stairs. My guess is he didn't want to wait for a body/head shot in case they were armed (he was robbed of two guns a month prior, probably the same kids).

Now that could work in court.

If he still felt threatened, he is within his right.


What he told the cops is going to sink him.

[NIUhuskies]

there has to be more to this story

[Dave Lane]

Gross. I understand the right to defend yourself but executing incapacitated / wounded teenagers is wrong period. Rot in prison.

[Marcellus]

I am calling bath salts. Thats why the girl laughed after getting shot.

Still wrong but I would bet good money they were on bath salts.

You know after thinking about it, if I shot someone and then my gun jammed and then they laughed at me, I may find another gun to finish them off.

[KC native]

I wish I could blame CP alone for the warping, but alas

Yea, being a pig with a power trip is warping enough.

[Rain Man]

there has to be more to this story

I bet he offered to let the girl live if she would go out with him, and that's why she laughed, which made him angry. Women - can't live with them, can't put a shot from their chin to their cranium.

[Chief_For_Life58]

2 100 pound teenage girls? u would not shoot 2 female teenagers walking down your stairs unless ur a complete nutcase. he didnt even give them a chance to identify themselves. they musta been on acid or something

[BWillie]

i don't understand the murder charges. those teens gave up their rights when they broke into a home that wasn't theirs.

edit: i do agree he screwed up by not calling police immediately, and he handled it wrong. the executions may have been over the line.

What. The. ****. Are you serious? He didn't kill them in the act, he waited, waited, and boom. Then gloated about it. Ppl like this have a gun because they hope someday they can run into a situation that they can kill someone and get away with it. This guy seriously has sociopath tendencies.

[Rain Man]

2 100 pound teenage girls? u would not shoot 2 female teenagers walking down your stairs unless ur a complete nutcase. he didnt even give them a chance to identify themselves. they musta been on acid or something

I think one was a guy who just looked effeminate.

But I agree, if it's 2 100-pound teenage girls who are already in your basement, you don't shoot, especially if you can lure them into the dungeon area.*


(*Assuming they're 18, of course. It's completely wrong to capture underage teenage burglars and turn them into your basement dungeon slaves. We all know that.)

[unlurking]

Now that could work in court.

If he still felt threatened, he is within his right.


What he told the cops is going to sink him.
True. His words (although I must commend the honesty) will hang him. If he had just maintained his position and fired a kill shot after the invader(s) settled at the bottom of the stares he could easily have just claimed he was in fear for his life the entire time (not that I would condone it). Walking up to them and changing guns for an execution style shot is where where he stepped overboard.

Would be curious to know if the two were on something. Would explain the laughter. Would also explain the stupidity of the second invader entering the basement after hearing the shots. My mini 14 is definitely not a quiet gun, especially indoors. Call me a coward, but I'd have bolted.

[Chief_For_Life58]

I think one was a guy who just looked effeminate.

But I agree, if it's 2 100-pound teenage girls who are already in your basement, you don't shoot, especially if you can lure them into the dungeon area.*


(*Assuming they're 18, of course. It's completely wrong to capture underage teenage burglars and turn them into your basement dungeon slaves. We all know that.)

hahahaha jesus

[crazycoffey]

Yea, being a pig with a power trip is warping enough.

you punch like a girl

[Fish]

For a second there, scrolling down, I thought she was a Siamese twin... kinda awkward...

[Frazod]

I don't blame the man for defending himself from intruders. Breaking into someone's home SHOULD be dangerous for you and they lose their right to safety when they break in.

That said....Holy shit did this guy do it badly. He deserves some punishment, shooting them in defense is fine....the up close, dragging bodies around and waiting a day and then using the tone he did is sociopathic.

This.

Somebody breaks into your house, and you shoot them. Okay. If they are no longer a threat but aren't dead, you CALL THE COPS IMMEDIATELY AND REPORT THE CRIME. Everything he did afterward is fucked.

[seclark]

no doubt the old dude's fucked up. his eyes look pretty jacked up too, like how the hell can he see in the first place?

but if they not only broke in, then went downstairs...the 2nd one after the first one was shot. wtf.

no winners here...
sec

[displacedinMN]

Here is a link from the St Paul Pioneer Press.
There are other stories linked there too.

I think this guy is done for. The OP talks about Minnesotas intruder rule. He will be found clearly in the wrong.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_22067764/little-falls-man-describes-finishing-teenagers-shots-heads?source=pkg

I did get distracted by NIU's avatar.

[notorious]

She was a good looking girl. WTF was wrong with them?

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2012/1126/20121126__littlefalls_brady_kifer_300.jpg

[aturnis]

Lock his ass up.

[Al Bundy]

Skip Towne moved to Minnesota?

[Dayze]

never ever ever ever ever speak to the Po Po.
I'm not saying that he's right etc, but he made some remarks that probably fucked him over good.

[bowener]

Who gets shot and then laughs moments later because the second shot was jammed?

The same person that came downstairs in a strangers house to investigate gunshots....

[FAX]

there has to be more to this story

Clearly.

There's just too much in the initial report that makes no sense. He's hanging out in the basement with no eyeballs. Perp #2 hears gunshots in the basement and goes down to check it out. Then, after being gut shot, Perp #2 laughs at Moleman's ineptitude at gun play. Moleman drags the bodies around, then delays contacting the authorities for a full day. Even then, Moleman asks his neighbor to make the call.

Nope. I think you're right, Mr. NIUhuskies. I think there's more to the story. In fact, I think there's a different set of facts entirely. I think Moleman had invited the two teenagers over to the house to engage in some sort of drug transaction or whatever. Then, Moleman lost a few more precious marbles and took out his guests. Afterwards, Moleman made up this wacky cover story in an effort to claim self-defense. Unfortunately for Moleman, he is probably the worst alibi fabricator in the entire universe.

FAX

[stonedstooge]

I think a mental evaluation is the first order of business

[Easy 6]

Something definitely stinks, its not really adding up.

When he says a line like "it was a good, clean finishing shot" "right up under her chin"... the only reasonable conclusion is that this man is certifiable, to look upon two kids and do that, and wait a day before calling... get him behind bars asap.

The girl actually laughed? i call bullshit, the only possible way thats true is if Marcellus' bath salts usage theory is right, anything else, and what that crazy bastard heard was death weezes... and hopefully the coroner will answer that question soon enough.

It all stinks.

[displacedinMN]

New story today-MPLS Star trib 11-28

Slain teenage cousins linked to an earlier Little Falls break-in?

Investigators were working late Tuesday to determine whether the two teenage cousins slain during a home burglary in Little Falls, Minn., on Thanksgiving Day committed a similar crime just hours before the fatal shootings.

Preliminary findings suggest that Nick Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were involved in another break-in Wednesday night, 6 miles south of the home where Byron Smith claims he shot them in self-defense, said Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel. Smith, 64, a retired U.S. State Department worker, is charged with second-degree murder in the double shooting, which Wetzel has characterized as "cold-blooded" executions carried out after the teens were disabled by initial shots.

In the latest development, investigators are piecing together evidence recovered from a red Mitsubishi Eclipse that Brady had been driving, and which was discovered Friday parked a block away and around the corner from Smith's property, 3 miles north of Little Falls.

That same car was seen in a driveway last Wednesday evening 3 miles south of Little Falls, in the vicinity of a house belonging to Richard L. Johnson, a retired Little Falls High School teacher who had been in Spain until Sunday evening.

Wetzel confirmed that deputies who had been called to the Johnson neighborhood about the car identified it as one used by Brady, but not registered to him.

The sheriff also said that Brady had walked up to the car, was questioned by the deputies and released. The burglary at Johnson's home was at that time undiscovered, he said.

"There are some preliminary indications that the Johnson burglary may have been committed by the Brady boy and the Kifer girl, but it's too early now to say definitively, but tomorrow morning [Wednesday] we'll have some more information and determine whether they're connected," Wetzel said.

Johnson said the items he reported stolen included less than $5 worth of pennies kept in a box on his dresser, silver and copper coins from foreign countries, and an assortment of prescription medication, including drugs for diabetes and controlling cholesterol. Johnson, 68, said the thieves had broken a sliding glass door at his house.

Wetzel could not immediately confirm whether any of Johnson's property was found in the car that Brady and Kifer left parked near Smith's house before they were slain. He said investigators are tracing an assortment of items.

Smith's brother, Bruce Johnson of California, whom Byron Smith called after the shootings, said his brother reported about $10,000 worth of items stolen in an Oct. 27 burglary, including guns, a camera and $3,000 to $4,000 in cash.

He said the Oct. 27 break-in was the latest in a string of six to eight before the shootings Thanksgiving Day.

The sheriff said he did not have the burglary report regarding the late October burglary that Byron Smith reported.

"I don't have the reports in front of me to indicate precisely what was found. I do know they found quite a bit of evidence in their vehicle that was parked near the Smith place," the sheriff said late Tuesday. "We're trying to investigate whether it might have come from the Johnson burglary."

Johnson, who taught 32 years at Little Falls High, said he didn't know Kifer or Brady, though he knew one of their siblings.

"The whole thing is very sad that they lost their lives," he said. "In the same instance, if they hadn't been breaking into houses, they'd be alive."

[LOCOChief]

If anyone unknown to me or my family breaks a window and enters my home I will execute them. This is sad and it's wrong that he waited to call the police which brings into question his entire account of events. But plenty of innocent people / families have been murdered in thier own homes by intruders. I think even if I was protecting my family and put in a position where I had to kill somone I would regret it the rest of my life but I wouldn't hesitate even one moment and always shoot to kill.

[Dartgod]

I think even if I was protecting my family and put in a position where I had to kill somone I would regret it the rest of my life but I wouldn't hesitate even one moment and always shoot to kill.

Even if the first shots had disabled the intruders to the point of removing the threat?

[Lonewolf Ed]

He shot them when there legs/hips came into view as they were coming down the stairs. My guess is he didn't want to wait for a body/head shot in case they were armed (he was robbed of two guns a month prior, probably the same kids).

What is really odd about his story is after he shot the boy twice, then the girl came down the stairs, too? Wouldn't she have headed for the way out instead once she heard a mini 14 shot?

[Dave Lane]

It makes you wonder if those kids broke in his house at all.

FAX

This was the very first thing that came to mind. Maybe they walked through his yard and he lured them in. Guy deserves to spend the rest of his days in prison, period.

[Frazod]

Some additional thoughts on this:

Sounds like these kids were basically terrorizing this guy. I've been in a situation before where somebody kept fucking with me at my apartment (showing up with 5 guys in the middle of the night, blowing up M-80s on the porch, etc.) and I can tell you, it really makes you crazy. I had to run that fucker off at gunpoint a couple of times and really, really wanted to end him, so I understand this guy's frustration. Add in him being an old man and completely isolated, and well, I don't excuse his actions, but I get why he snapped.

Also, sounds like these kids were complete fucking vermin, bravo for removing them from the gene pool.

[Rain Man]

Even if the first shots had disabled the intruders to the point of removing the threat?

They'll heal eventually and won't be friendly.

I'm not saying that's a reason to finish them off, but it's a rationale.

When I was in high school, my father got attacked at work by a couple of thugs. (He ran a restaurant and they came in at night and just did a random attack.) He had to testify against them in court and they got sent to prison for a couple of years, and when it was time for them to get out it was very worrisome. We got new beefy locks on our doors and all kinds of stuff.

[Rain Man]

This was the very first thing that came to mind. Maybe they walked through his yard and he lured them in. Guy deserves to spend the rest of his days in prison, period.

Given the fact that they had been breaking into other houses, I think we can reject this theory. However else we judge the situation, we can safely conclude that the kids were scum.

[Radar Chief]

What is really odd about his story is after he shot the boy twice, then the girl came down the stairs, too? Wouldn't she have headed for the way out instead once she heard a mini 14 shot?

A rational person would but a rational person isn’t going to go breaking into other people’s houses either.

[Easy 6]

If they were breaking and entering, yeah, you have to expect bad things and they had no excuse.

But this guy still went way over the line, dragging half dead people around and then "finishing" them as they gasp and weeze.

What a sad, sick story.

[loochy]

Some additional thoughts on this:

Sounds like these kids were basically terrorizing this guy. I've been in a situation before where somebody kept fucking with me at my apartment (showing up with 5 guys in the middle of the night, blowing up M-80s on the porch, etc.) and I can tell you, it really makes you crazy. I had to run that fucker off at gunpoint a couple of times and really, really wanted to end him, so I understand this guy's frustration. Add in him being an old man and completely isolated, and well, I don't excuse his actions, but I get why he snapped.

Also, sounds like these kids were complete fucking vermin, bravo for removing them from the gene pool.

LOL at kids messing with crazy old frazod

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24150070.jpg

[notorious]

They'll heal eventually and won't be friendly.

I'm not saying that's a reason to finish them off, but it's a rationale.

When I was in high school, my father got attacked at work by a couple of thugs. (He ran a restaurant and they came in at night and just did a random attack.) He had to testify against them in court and they got sent to prison for a couple of years, and when it was time for them to get out it was very worrisome. We got new beefy locks on our doors and all kinds of stuff.

This.

I told my wife that anyone that breaks into our house will end up dead because I don't want to worry about them coming back wanting revenge.

[lcarus]

especially an 18 year old girl???? thats just bizarre

Yeah that's because it's a bullshit lie. For all we know this nut found these kids on his property and forced them at gunpoint to come inside so he could execute him. Could have happened...

[el borracho]

Well, I don't guess anyone will break into his next apartment but he is likely to have an annoying roommate.

[crazycoffey]

Even if the first shots had disabled the intruders to the point of removing the threat?


Are you willing to bet your life they don't have a weapon they'll use on you once you turn your back to look for the other intruder? Are you willing to risk your life to the other intruder by spending precious seconds searching the one you just shot? When do you absolutely know you've removed a threat? If actions were taken while fearing his life or safety it shouldn't matter if we now think it's "too far".


Moving the bodies with out necessity or reason is tampering with a crime scene, not calling the authorities as soon as safely possible doesn't do the guy any favors either. The "finishing shot" on the girl makes my stomach cringe like any normal person would.

But the "wanting him dead" for the first intruder, doesn't bother me as much. Still another person in the house, he's probably still fearing his safety and he doesn't want to worry about this guy shot in the leg or hips getting back up and getting back in the fight.

[Lzen]

She was a good looking girl. WTF was wrong with them?

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2012/1126/20121126__littlefalls_brady_kifer_300.jpg

Of course they are going to show the pic of her when she was looking good. Not the girl who was going to an alternative school and probably strung out on meth.

[Lzen]

The same person that came downstairs in a strangers house to investigate gunshots....

Yeah, that one doesn't really pass the BS detector. Something is very fishy about this whole thing. I'll be there's a lot more to this story.

[Dartgod]

Are you willing to bet your life they don't have a weapon they'll use on you once you turn your back to look for the other intruder? Are you willing to risk your life to the other intruder by spending precious seconds searching the one you just shot? When do you absolutely know you've removed a threat? If actions were taken while fearing his life or safety it shouldn't matter if we now think it's "too far".


Moving the bodies with out necessity or reason is tampering with a crime scene, not calling the authorities as soon as safely possible doesn't do the guy any favors either. The "finishing shot" on the girl makes my stomach cringe like any normal person would.

But the "wanting him dead" for the first intruder, doesn't bother me as much. Still another person in the house, he's probably still fearing his safety and he doesn't want to worry about this guy shot in the leg or hips getting back up and getting back in the fight.
Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.
According to his own testimony, I'd say he had enough time to secure the first intruder before the second one made an appearance.

[tooge]

Hey, chin up. He could still get the death penalty

[bevischief]

Yeah, that one doesn't really pass the BS detector. Something is very fishy about this whole thing. I'll be there's a lot more to this story.

I agree.

[crazycoffey]

According to his own testimony, I'd say he had enough time to secure the first intruder before the second one made an appearance.

the first paragraph was more general in nature, the rest was some of my take on what we know, or what has been reported anyway. Again, as he goes to address the second intruder, he would be turning his back on the first. If the first has the ability to get his hands on anything to use as a weapon, you may just have been too nice for your own good by not finishing him off. Just my humble opinion, fuck the first guy, I don't want to be concerned with him anymore, I'd want him dead too.

However, I wouldn't be moving bodies or not calling the police, I also might word my statement to not sound so emotionally detached as a human being either.

[Dartgod]

the first paragraph was more general in nature, the rest was some of my take on what we know, or what has been reported anyway. Again, as he goes to address the second intruder, he would be turning his back on the first. If the first has the ability to get his hands on anything to use as a weapon, you may just have been too nice for your own good by not finishing him off. Just my humble opinion, **** the first guy, I don't want to be concerned with him anymore, I'd want him dead too.

However, I wouldn't be moving bodies or not calling the police, I also might word my statement to not sound so emotionally detached as a human being either.

I'm just saying that if he time to put a bullet in his head, drag him to another room and sit for a few minutes before the girl came down, then he certainly had time to search him for a weapon and tie him up or secure him in some way.

[The Franchise]

I'm just saying that if he time to put a bullet in his head, drag him to another room and sit for a few minutes before the girl came down, then he certainly had time to search him for a weapon and tie him up or secure him in some way.

This. The dude was obviously incapacitated enough that the old guy could drag him around. He could have easily secured him.

[crazycoffey]

I'm just saying that if he time to put a bullet in his head, drag him to another room and sit for a few minutes before the girl came down, then he certainly had time to search him for a weapon and tie him up or secure him in some way.

This. The dude was obviously incapacitated enough that the old guy could drag him around. He could have easily secured him.

he dragged the first guy after the kill shot I thought.

I don't disagree it's possible, and I don't disagree this guy is a nut. but what are you securing him with? got some rope handy? handcuffs? You know before hand that the second person isn't coming down right away? It ended up that the second person didn't come down right away, but you can't afford to take that chance to tie someone up.

And even if you search him and find nothing on him, he could find your other gun downstairs if you turn your back on him. a pipe, a table leg, old lamp, etc. He could be yelling to his friend upstairs, giving information about the layout, your weapons, that you don't have a phone to call the police, etc.

Too many possible bad scenarios for me personally. If I know someone else is in the house, I'm eliminating one threat, trying to call for back up in some way if I can, and watching the fatal funnel that is the entrance to the basement and shooting anything I don't recognize coming down the steps. I don't care about taking prisoners in that case.

Anyway, just saying the kill shot on the first guy doesn't turn my stomach upside down as much as everyone else. given what we think we know about what happened, or what was reported to have happened.

[Dartgod]

he dragged the first guy after the kill shot I thought.

I don't disagree it's possible, and I don't disagree this guy is a nut. but what are you securing him with? got some rope handy? handcuffs? You know before hand that the second person isn't coming down right away? It ended up that the second person didn't come down right away, but you can't afford to take that chance to tie someone up.

And even if you search him and find nothing on him, he could find your other gun downstairs if you turn your back on him. a pipe, a table leg, old lamp, etc. He could be yelling to his friend upstairs, giving information about the layout, your weapons, that you don't have a phone to call the police, etc.

Too many possible bad scenarios for me personally. If I know someone else is in the house, I'm eliminating one threat, trying to call for back up in some way if I can, and watching the fatal funnel that is the entrance to the basement and shooting anything I don't recognize coming down the steps. I don't care about taking prisoners in that case.

Anyway, just saying the kill shot on the first guy doesn't turn my stomach upside down as much as everyone else. given what we think we know about what happened, or what was reported to have happened.

Sounds like a great movie script.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Damn. I don't want to shoot anyone, much less in my own home, unless it's absolutely necessary. But the execution stuff is over the line. My stuff isn't that important to me. My family is however. But if I'm alone, and I pop this guy, I call the cops period.

I get that he didn't know what weapons they may have had. But I get even more that the guy was a nut case and these kids basically broke into the wrong fucking house.

Moral of the story...kids, don't be breaking into houses.

[NIUhuskies]

Sounds like a great movie script.

what would the title of the movie be??

[unlurking]

what would the title of the movie be??
"What to do in Kansas City when you're out of antifreeze."

[Sorter]

"What to do in Kansas City when you're out of antifreeze."

http://i.imgur.com/u9H6N.gif

[MIAdragon]

I think a mental evaluation is the first order of business

or a bullet to the head.

[displacedinMN]

Little Falls shootings: Drugs, other items reported stolen found in car teens used
By Christopher Magan
cmagan@pioneerpress.com
Posted: 11/28/2012 12:01:00 AM CST
Updated: 11/28/2012 05:12:28 PM CST

Cousins Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were shot to death Thanksgiving Day 2012 after allegedly breaking in to a man's Little Falls, Minn., home.


Authorities tied the teenage cousins killed by a homeowner after they broke into his Little Falls, Minn., house Thanksgiving Day to a similar break-in the night before.

Prescription drugs from the earlier burglary were found in the red Mitsubishi Eclipse that Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, drove when they broke into Byron David Smith's home north of Little Falls, Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Wednesday, Nov. 28.

Deputies are now reviewing police reports to see if other burglaries are connected to the teens.

Investigators are trying to determine whether Kifer and Brady took the medication the night before they were killed from a home just south of Little Falls near where Kifer's family lives.

The homeowner, Richard L. Johnson, was out of town when his house was ransacked and pills and coins were taken, he said.

Smith was in his basement and has told authorities he heard the break-in at his house Nov. 22. He armed himself with a rifle and a revolver and waited in a chair.

Smith shot and wounded the teens as they came downstairs and then dispatched them with close range shots to the chest and head. He put their bodies in a workshop and police were not notified until a day later when a neighbor called police.

Smith was charged Monday with two counts of second-degree murder. He remains in the Morrison County Jail on $2 million bond.

Johnson, 68, a retired English teacher, was vacationing in Spain and returned home Nov. 25,
three days after the killings, to find his home in disarray. A crowbar he keeps outback was used to break a patio door to gain entry and cupboards and drawers were pulled open, he said.

All he found missing was some foreign coins, a box of pennies and some routine prescription drugs.

"These weren't painkillers or anything," he said.

Johnson taught at Little Falls high school, but did not know either of the victims. He knew Kifer's older brother who he called "nice kid."

Deputies
Byron Smith of rural Little Falls, Minn., is charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of 17-year-old Nicholas Brady Schaeffel and 18-year-old Haile Kifer.
confronted Brady on Nov. 21, the night before he was killed, after a Hilton Road resident and neighbor of Johnson, reported a car "parked suspiciously" at the end of his driveway. Brady told the deputies he and Kifer had been driving around when their car ran out of gas and Kifer went to get more.

Officers questioned Brady in the back of a squad car and let him go, Johnson said his neighbors later told him. Deputies left the car and drove Brady into Little Falls and dropped him off.

The next day deputies discovered the red Eclipse after the bodies of Brady and Kifer were found in Smith's basement. The car was parked a few blocks from Smith's home and inside it they found prescriptions and coins believed to be from Johnson's house.

Smith's home had been repeatedly burglarized by teens looking for money for drugs, his friend John Lange said. Cash, guns and expensive camera gear had been taken over the last few months.

In October, Smith reported a burglary to police and said weapons and other items had been taken. He also mentioned two previous break-ins that he did not report because he didn't feel they were significant enough, Wetzel said.

Smith is retired from the U.S. State Department where he worked as a security engineer, a position responsible for security of embassies and diplomats around the world.

A joint funeral service will be held Saturday for the teens. Visitation is 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. Friday at Emblom Brenny Funeral Service, 900 First St. SE. Funeral is 10 a.m. Saturday at Living Hope Assembly of God Church, 17389 Haven Road. Burial will follow at Bear Head Cemetery.

Christopher Magan can be reached at 651-228-5557. Follow him at twitter.com/cmaganPiPress.

[Cannibal]

I have a very difficult time feeling sorry for anyone that would break into another person's home. In fact, I really don't feel sorry for those two asshole kids... fuck em.

The dude that shot them did go over the line though and should spend the rest of his horrid existence in prison.

[seclark]

Little Falls shootings: Drugs, other items reported stolen found in car teens used
By Christopher Magan
cmagan@pioneerpress.com
Posted: 11/28/2012 12:01:00 AM CST
Updated: 11/28/2012 05:12:28 PM CST

Cousins Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were shot to death Thanksgiving Day 2012 after allegedly breaking in to a man's Little Falls, Minn., home.


Authorities tied the teenage cousins killed by a homeowner after they broke into his Little Falls, Minn., house Thanksgiving Day to a similar break-in the night before.

Prescription drugs from the earlier burglary were found in the red Mitsubishi Eclipse that Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, drove when they broke into Byron David Smith's home north of Little Falls, Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Wednesday, Nov. 28.

Deputies are now reviewing police reports to see if other burglaries are connected to the teens.

Investigators are trying to determine whether Kifer and Brady took the medication the night before they were killed from a home just south of Little Falls near where Kifer's family lives.

The homeowner, Richard L. Johnson, was out of town when his house was ransacked and pills and coins were taken, he said.

Smith was in his basement and has told authorities he heard the break-in at his house Nov. 22. He armed himself with a rifle and a revolver and waited in a chair.

Smith shot and wounded the teens as they came downstairs and then dispatched them with close range shots to the chest and head. He put their bodies in a workshop and police were not notified until a day later when a neighbor called police.

Smith was charged Monday with two counts of second-degree murder. He remains in the Morrison County Jail on $2 million bond.

Johnson, 68, a retired English teacher, was vacationing in Spain and returned home Nov. 25,
three days after the killings, to find his home in disarray. A crowbar he keeps outback was used to break a patio door to gain entry and cupboards and drawers were pulled open, he said.

All he found missing was some foreign coins, a box of pennies and some routine prescription drugs.

"These weren't painkillers or anything," he said.

Johnson taught at Little Falls high school, but did not know either of the victims. He knew Kifer's older brother who he called "nice kid."

Deputies
Byron Smith of rural Little Falls, Minn., is charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of 17-year-old Nicholas Brady Schaeffel and 18-year-old Haile Kifer.
confronted Brady on Nov. 21, the night before he was killed, after a Hilton Road resident and neighbor of Johnson, reported a car "parked suspiciously" at the end of his driveway. Brady told the deputies he and Kifer had been driving around when their car ran out of gas and Kifer went to get more.

Officers questioned Brady in the back of a squad car and let him go, Johnson said his neighbors later told him. Deputies left the car and drove Brady into Little Falls and dropped him off.

The next day deputies discovered the red Eclipse after the bodies of Brady and Kifer were found in Smith's basement. The car was parked a few blocks from Smith's home and inside it they found prescriptions and coins believed to be from Johnson's house.

Smith's home had been repeatedly burglarized by teens looking for money for drugs, his friend John Lange said. Cash, guns and expensive camera gear had been taken over the last few months.

In October, Smith reported a burglary to police and said weapons and other items had been taken. He also mentioned two previous break-ins that he did not report because he didn't feel they were significant enough, Wetzel said.

Smith is retired from the U.S. State Department where he worked as a security engineer, a position responsible for security of embassies and diplomats around the world.

A joint funeral service will be held Saturday for the teens. Visitation is 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. Friday at Emblom Brenny Funeral Service, 900 First St. SE. Funeral is 10 a.m. Saturday at Living Hope Assembly of God Church, 17389 Haven Road. Burial will follow at Bear Head Cemetery.

Christopher Magan can be reached at 651-228-5557. Follow him at twitter.com/cmaganPiPress.

kids just broke in to the wrong crazy old fuckers house. bad deal.
sec

[unlurking]

...
Smith is retired from the U.S. State Department where he worked as a security engineer, a position responsible for security of embassies and diplomats around the world...

Damn, you know that Benghazi shit would never have gone down with this dude in charge!

[blaise]

hold on there buddy. go back and reread my post. the guy isn't totally innocent. he probably needs mental help, but i don't think he's a criminal for shooting the intruders.

Yeah, he's a criminal for the second shot on the girl if nothing else. You can't go get a second gun, shoot her again to say you're "finishing" her and try and claim your life was in danger.

[unlurking]

Yeah, he's a criminal for the second shot on the girl if nothing else. You can't go get a second gun, shoot her again to say you're "finishing" her and try and claim your life was in danger.
Don't forget the "third" shot. After switching to a 22 and shooting her multiple times in the chest, he moved the body next to the first. Then he realized she was still alive and went for the kill shot under the chin.

I'm all for blowing away the baddies, but this was just an execution.

[Rain Man]

Damn, you know that Benghazi shit would never have gone down with this dude in charge!


I bet a memo went out to his former embassies that they should look inside all of their basement closets.

[ghak99]

Smith is retired from the U.S. State Department where he worked as a security engineer, a position responsible for security of embassies and diplomats around the world.

This seems interesting considering he's been a repeat victim of break-ins and the unusual terminology he used in hanging himself with his statement to the cops.

[Dayze]

this is why you never sspeak to the police.
based on what I've read, he's definitely not looking very good. But his comments pretty much fucked him regardless of what he'll claim now or going forward.

[displacedinMN]

To add another layer to this:

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. - Court documents show a Little Falls man accused of fatally shooting two teenagers had a surveillance system that recorded video of the cousins as they broke into his home Thanksgiving Day.

The St. Cloud Times reports (http://on.sctimes.com/Z5KILg) that search warrants reveal 64-year-old Byron David Smith also made an audio recording of the shootings. Smith is charged with murdering Nick Brady and Haile Kifer.

The search warrants allege Smith was sitting in a basement chair when he shot Brady, then sat back down and shot Kifer minutes later. The warrants also say Smith appeared to have blood on his shoes and clothes when authorities arrived.

Authorities learned of the video and audio recordings while searching Smith's home. They then went back and seized several computer memory cards and computer equipment.

[stevenidol]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of his kitchen.

[Prison Bitch]

After reading the story, it turned out differently than I expected. I think the man is a sick bitch and I hope he gets to be someone's "PRISON BITCH" (trademark) in the slammer

[displacedinMN]

Update

A Little Falls teenager who was shot to death after breaking into the home of Byron David Smith on Thanksgiving Day has been linked to two felony burglaries of Smith's property in the months before the shooting, court records show.

Nick Brady, 17, allegedly broke into Smith's house and later, his garage, and stole several items, including an envelope filled with cash, a video camcorder and a chain saw, according to two criminal complaints filed in Morrison County District Court this week.

Smith, 64, faces two counts of second-degree murder in the shooting deaths of Brady and his cousin, Haile Kifer, 18, as they broke into Smith's home along the backwaters of the Mississippi River.

The gruesome details of the killings, which involved multiple shots fired at the teenagers as they walked down the stairs to Smith's basement and as they lay dying, immediately sparked an intense debate in Little Falls and beyond over how far a homeowner can go in defending his property.

Neither teen was armed. And in the minutes after the shootings, Smith dragged the bodies into a workshop, where they remained until a neighbor called police the next day.

Smith's brother and a neighbor have consistently defended him, saying the retired security engineer for U.S. embassies and Little Falls native had been repeatedly victimized in the months leading up to the shootings, although authorities have only one report of a break-in, in October.

"You have the right to defend your home, and he's been through hell," neighbor John Lange said days after the shootings. "They tortured him and targeted him, and it's not good."

Tale of two burglaries

The details of the burglaries involving Brady were spelled out in two criminal complaints filed this week against Cody M. Kasper, 17, a friend of Brady's who faces charges of aiding and abetting in connection with the crimes, which occurred last summer and fall.

Like Brady, Kasper once worked odd jobs for Smith cleaning up the homeowner's property.

According to the complaints:

Shortly after the shootings, investigators executed a search warrant at Kasper's home in Little Falls believing that some of the items stolen from Smith's house and garage might be found there.

At that time, Kasper told authorities of the two break-ins.

He said that in both instances, he never entered Smith's house or garage, but simply acted as a lookout for Brady, who, in addition to stealing the cash, camcorder and chain saw, also took rolls of copper wire and a gas siphoning kid.

The teenagers agreed that if Smith or someone showed up or came down the driveway to the home, "Kasper would notify N.B. via cellphone," the complaints said. "Kasper stated that there was an active phone call (open line) between Kasper and N.B. during the entire burglary so that Kasper could quickly warn N.B. is someone was coming."

One complaint said that after the summer burglary, Brady bought Kasper an ATV as well as clothes and shoes for his help.

Twin Cities defense attorney Steve Meshbesher, who represents Smith, said Tuesday that the charges against Kasper and Brady's involvement help build the case that Smith had been repeatedly victimized.

He said Smith reported "a half dozen" burglaries to authorities over several months. It got so bad, he said, that Smith installed a security system "because he couldn't protect his home."

Meshbesher said that Smith began noticing that some of his belongings, including a shotgun, were missing after he hired Brady, Kasper and other teens to stack wood and perform chores.

Authorities have also tied Brady and Kifer to a burglary the day before the shootings, when six bottles of prescription medicine were stolen from another homeowner's property.

Smith's next court appearance is scheduled for May 6.

Richard Meryhew • 612-673-4425

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Bullshit that he's up on charges.

[Saul Good]

Bullshit that he's up on charges.

Really? Did you read the original article?

[stonedstooge]

Did he pass a psychiatric exam?

[hometeam]

Bullshit that he's up on charges.

Yea I mean, I guess playing Judge Dredd with teenagers is A-OK.

[Frazod]

Yea I mean, I guess playing Judge Dredd with teenagers is A-OK.

I guess the real Judge Dredd was busy when the piece of shit broke into his house the first two times, right?

[stonedstooge]

I believe in protecting your property but he Executed two people. You can go too far.

[Frazod]

I believe in protecting your property but he Executed two people. You can go too far.

I'd say he took one for the team. The world's a better place without them in it.

[unlurking]

I'd say he took one for the team. The world's a better place without them in it.
The mistake was using a .22 and shooting them in the hip area. Something in a 357 or 45 to the chest area would have sufficed with a single shot, and not given the appearance of an execution.

[Rain Man]

The mistake was using a .22 and shooting them in the hip area. Something in a 357 or 45 to the chest area would have sufficed with a single shot, and not given the appearance of an execution.

But that would have ruined the fun of executing them.

[unlurking]

*note to self: stay away from rain man's house*

[MagicHef]

He said that in both instances, he never entered Smith's house or garage, but simply acted as a lookout for Brady, who, in addition to stealing the cash, camcorder and chain saw, also took rolls of copper wire and a gas siphoning kid.

This part is a little alarming.

[Rain Man]

This part is a little alarming.

It seems like a kid like that would be handy if you're a criminal.

[Rain Man]

*note to self: stay away from rain man's house*

(Staring at unlurking while sharpening knife on a razor strop.)

[bowener]

This part is a little alarming.

No shit! He keeps a child on hand to siphon gas for him. One fucked fugger.

[Aries Walker]

Shooting two unarmed kids who are breaking into your house again is possibly defensible in court, but executing them while they lie helpless on the floor is not. The kids were delinquents and crooks and bad people all around, but by the time they had a few bullets in them, they were no longer a threat to the guy. He blew their brains out anyway.

He's a sick twisted murderer and should go to jail forever.

[Xanathol]

Shooting two unarmed kids who are breaking into your house again is possibly defensible in court, but executing them while they lie helpless on the floor is not. The kids were delinquents and crooks and bad people all around, but by the time they had a few bullets in them, they were no longer a threat to the guy. He blew their brains out anyway.

He's a sick twisted murderer and should go to jail forever.
Because the justice system did such a good job in the prior incidents to make sure they didn't do it again... Chances are in the state of things today, if he didn't kill them, they not only aren't arrested but file suit against him for harming them and take his belongings through another screwed up liberal court system...

If you decide to inflict a crime on someone, fuck "your rights" - you just forfeited them and get what you deserve, as these piece of shit teenagers did. The man should get an award for removing them from society instead of a court date.

[teedubya]

Neither teen was armed. And in the minutes after the shootings, Smith dragged the bodies into a workshop, where they remained until a neighbor called police the next day.

I think this is why he's going down.

[fairladyZ]

so he's in the wrong for killing them.

Except if he would have let them live and they come back and sue him for damages caused and inflicted for him shooting them the guy suffers even more.

this is why you shoot to kill, period. burglars have sued for less, falling on a kitchen knife during a burglary and so on.

shitty deal all around but the guy wasn't in the wrong. Only thing he should have handled different is calling the police right away.

[Aries Walker]

You can't execute someone because you're afraid they'll sue you if you don't. You also can't execute someone because you're afraid they'll rob your house again, even after you've already crippled them. You also can't blow a helpless person's head off. I mean, what the hell.

[jspchief]

You can't execute someone because you're afraid they'll sue you if you don't. You also can't execute someone because you're afraid they'll rob your house again, even after you've already crippled them. You also can't blow a helpless person's head off. I mean, what the hell.

You should be able to execute an intruder in your own home.

[EagleRob]

Two of the three sociopaths involved are dead. How bout the third?

[Gravedigger]

The funny thing is all of you who are standing up for him are taking him at his word, seeing as he's the only one left alive that could tell the story. If I'm a police officer, I'm thinking he killed these kids and then made up the bullshit story to cover it instead of trying to dispose of the bodies. Any man who is willing to say ,"I wanted him dead." is willing to do anything he can to kill him. Maybe this kid fucked with his property in the past so he had a beef, but are you honestly believing him that the kid laughed as he stepped up to her and then bent down to execute her? You really think a person who has just been shot would laugh before the final bullet goes in? Bet money that the girl was begging for her life, if his story up until that point was true, and he put her out of her misery instead of trying to get her help. Sounds like a crazy old cooner who tried to fasten together a story that has more holes in it than Prometheus. The only way that kid laughed as she lied there dying on his basement floor is if she was high on some crazy ass shit and I've never seen a drug's effects that a teenager can get ahold of that would take the fear of death out of them.

[BigMeatballDave]

I think there is more to this.

[BigMeatballDave]

You should be able to execute an intruder in your own home.

Yes, but not like this guy did.

[Aries Walker]

You should be able to execute an intruder in your own home.
No, you should not. Threaten, attack, defeat, repel, neutralize, sure - but once that intruder is no longer a threat (say, because they're lying, bleeding on the floor from multiple gunshot wounds), you cannot gangland-style bullet-through-the-cranium execute anyone.

[Gravedigger]

No, you should not. Threaten, attack, defeat, repel, neutralize, sure - but once that intruder is no longer a threat (say, because they're lying, bleeding on the floor from multiple gunshot wounds), you cannot gangland-style bullet-through-the-cranium execute anyone.

And then admit to it boldly in front of the cops? Yeah, guys crazy as hell.

[kcxiv]

wow, Some of you motherfuckers posting in here are just as batshit insane as the guy shooting people just cause you want them dead. lol At least it sounds like it.

Its like being in a fucking fight and someone hits you for no reason and you get up and kick his ass but you just keep going and going til he's dead. There is no difference, you as a human should know when enough is enough.

[jspchief]

No, you should not. Threaten, attack, defeat, repel, neutralize, sure - but once that intruder is no longer a threat (say, because they're lying, bleeding on the floor from multiple gunshot wounds), you cannot gangland-style bullet-through-the-cranium execute anyone.

Agree to disagree then.

[Amnorix]

i don't understand the murder charges. those teens gave up their rights when they broke into a home that wasn't theirs.

edit: i do agree he screwed up by not calling police immediately, and he handled it wrong. the executions may have been over the line.


Gee, really? Why, do you think?

[Amnorix]

You should be able to execute an intruder in your own home.


That is seriously fucked up.

[InChiefsHeaven]

You don't have the right to EXECUTE someone. If you kill them in the process of defending yourself or your property, I have no problem with that. But damn, this is sick psycho serial killer shit. I think the old man's cheese has slipped off the cracker for sure, but I can't understand how anyone can justify the execution.

I get that the kids should not have been doing what they were doing, but this is beyond self defense. Hell, it's beyond revenge. This is just sick twisted shit.

[Gary]

In Florida, there is a rule called the Castle Doctrine that says there is implied intent to inflict harm when someone breaks into your home. However, the use of deadly force is only justified if the homeowner's life was in danger of imminent great bodily harm or death. Once those teenagers hit the ground the imminent danger of great bodily harm or death ended.

[notorious]

If they can prove he shot them execution-style, he is done.


This is similar to a story I heard in CCL class from a Wichita Detective. A store owner had been robbed many times, and he finally armed himself. The next time a robbery was attempted, he shot the perp.

He was still in the right until he walked around his counter and fired a shot into the scumbag's head. The store owner is now serving time for murder.

The kicker: His own store video showed the whole thing.

[Old Dog]

Now fry him and all three are out of the gene pool......win, win, win

[Garcia Bronco]

If you break into my home, I'll shoot you with a .45. You'll be dead, cause you are not coming back to my home. The only thing you need do to avoid this is to stay the fuck outta my house uninvited.

[Radar Chief]

If they can prove he shot them execution-style, he is done.

I think he pretty much came right out and said he did, and seemed proud of it.

[seclark]

I think he pretty much came right out and said he did, and seemed proud of it.

yep...old bastard's crazy, which i honestly think is the best thing he's got going for him right now.
sec

[unlurking]

If they can prove he shot them execution-style, he is done.


This is similar to a story I heard in CCL class from a Wichita Detective. A store owner had been robbed many times, and he finally armed himself. The next time a robbery was attempted, he shot the perp.

He was still in the right until he walked around his counter and fired a shot into the scumbag's head. The store owner is now serving time for murder.

The kicker: His own store video showed the whole thing.
These people need to spend more time at the range and learn to double tap!

To society in general, there is a very real difference between killing someone in self defense, and leaning over a defenseless asshole and shooting him point blank in the head.

[WhiteWhale]

Killing a defenseless person is murder.

He's a murderer and should be punished accordingly.

[WhiteWhale]

Agree to disagree then.

Then you disagree with the law.

Killing a defenseless person is murder. Always.

The whole 'defenseless' throws a wrench in the 'self defense' argument.

[WV]

Killing a defenseless person is murder.

He's a murderer and should be punished accordingly.

What if he had killed them with only one shot? So you don't agree with protecting yourself from a burglar?

[Saul Good]

What if he had killed them with only one shot? So you don't agree with protecting yourself from a burglar?

That's different. If he had killed them in self defense, no problem. He didn't, though. This was an execution. His safety was not in danger when he put the gun to her head; at least it wasn't based on what I've read here.

[WhiteWhale]

What if he had killed them with only one shot? So you don't agree with protecting yourself from a burglar?

Shooting an invader who poses a possible threat is not the same as shooting a defenseless person.

You need to accept it especially if you own a gun. If you shoot a defenseless person, you will be charged with murder. You can't 'defend' yourself from a defenseless person.

You tie them up and call police. They were wounded kids. He knew what he did.

If a guy starts a fight with me, I win, and then at the end I jump on his back and break his neck... that's murder. People don't seem to understand how self defense works... it's not just an excuse. You have to be defending yourself.

[Rausch]

They got what they deserved.

In time he will as well...

[ct]

Everybody involved here in this one is wrong. Kids are wrong for breaking and entering. The home owner was wrong for executing two teenagers. He could have stopped them without killing them.

this.

[Omaha]

The outcome is good - two less criminals in the world - but he probably could've handled it a little better.

Likely THREE less criminals.

[WV]

That's different. If he had killed them in self defense, no problem. He didn't, though. This was an execution. His safety was not in danger when he put the gun to her head; at least it wasn't based on what I've read here.
You answered my first question though. I agree his execution style killing was over the top, but had he happened to kill them with his first volley I would have been fine with that being that they broke into his house.

Shooting an invader who poses a possible threat is not the same as shooting a defenseless person.

You need to accept it especially if you own a gun. If you shoot a defenseless person, you will be charged with murder. You can't 'defend' yourself from a defenseless person.

You tie them up and call police. They were wounded kids. He knew what he did.

If a guy starts a fight with me, I win, and then at the end I jump on his back and break his neck... that's murder. People don't seem to understand how self defense works... it's not just an excuse. You have to be defending yourself.
I think you are agreeing with me. If someone breaks into my house, they are getting a lead injection whether they are armed or not. I have no idea if they are or aren't in that moment, but again I agree he took it too far after he had them down.

[warpaint*]

Good edit. I was about to explain it to you.


The executions ARE over the line.

Interesting when I read the headline to the thread I was afraid I was about to read about a legitimate self defense that was getting twisted into a murder charge but that is clearly not the case here.

I would have been perfectly fine w/ shooting each of them once to eliminate any threat and then calling the police immediately.

I also understand why he would be angry if he's been victimized by multiple break ins. But the way this dude reacted and the blatant disregard for two human lives is appalling.

[WhiteWhale]

I think you are agreeing with me. If someone breaks into my house, they are getting a lead injection whether they are armed or not. I have no idea if they are or aren't in that moment, but again I agree he took it too far after he had them down.

Yes, then we are agreed.

I'm not 'gun guy', but I'm in an area where owning a gun can save your life. I own one. I will shoot for the mass. If they die, that's their problem.

However if I shoot and do not kill, I'm not gonna walk up and say "Hasta la Vista baby!" before plugging them in the head. That's just ice cold murder.

Also, in my situation I'd prefer they live if the shots didn't kill them. They ended up being a couple of stupid kids. People do dipshit stuff like this, reform, and become quality members of society. I know a guy who did shit worse than breaking and entering (without getting caught) and now 14 years later he's a very decorated Army veteran.

[Garcia Bronco]

Then you disagree with the law.

Killing a defenseless person is murder. Always.

The whole 'defenseless' throws a wrench in the 'self defense' argument.

that's why it's best to empty the gun and not stop shooting.

[kcfanXIII]

In Florida, there is a rule called the Castle Doctrine that says there is implied intent to inflict harm when someone breaks into your home. However, the use of deadly force is only justified if the homeowner's life was in danger of imminent great bodily harm or death. Once those teenagers hit the ground the imminent danger of great bodily harm or death ended.

castle doctrine varies from state to state. in missouri, you are not required to prove shit other than they were unlawfully in your home, there is no need to prove they are a threat, and there is no flight clause which means you are not required to flee if possible before deadly force is used. hell, in MO, castle doctrine extends to vehicles and places of employment as well.

[Pitt Gorilla]

You answered my first question though. I agree his execution style killing was over the top, but had he happened to kill them with his first volley I would have been fine with that being that they broke into his house.


I think you are agreeing with me. If someone breaks into my house, they are getting a lead injection whether they are armed or not. I have no idea if they are or aren't in that moment, but again I agree he took it too far after he had them down.it sounds like one might murder someone, drag them into one's home, and claim self defense.

[Rausch]

it sounds like one might murder someone, drag them into one's home, and claim self defense.

One could do so in Mo.

Just....saying...

[Saul Good]

castle doctrine varies from state to state. in missouri, you are not required to prove shit other than they were unlawfully in your home, there is no need to prove they are a threat, and there is no flight clause which means you are not required to flee if possible before deadly force is used. hell, in MO, castle doctrine extends to vehicles and places of employment as well.

Still doesn't allow you to do what this guy did.

[kcfanXIII]

Still doesn't allow you to do what this guy did.

not saying it did. just explaining to someone that lots of states have varied versions of castle doctrine.

[tooge]

Two druggie thief teenagers are dead because they broke into a guys house who had a gun. That's it. End of story. They are dead. It doesn't matter if they would have died with the first shot or later, they are dead.

So the guy doesn't pump em full of lead, they recover, they sue his ass and everyone believes the cute little teenagers and he goes off to jail for people with no eyes. That not good either.

[Lzen]

Playing devil's advocate here. People suggested the kids would later sue. Well, how about if, after he shot them the kids were threatening to come back and kill him later on? Or perhaps they had been threatening him in the months prior? I'm not saying I could just shoot someone in cold blood while they are laying there bleeding and dying. But what if these wonderful kids had driven him over the edge?

[Rausch]

Playing devil's advocate here. People suggested the kids would later sue. Well, how about if, after he shot them the kids were threatening to come back and kill him later on? Or perhaps they had been threatening him in the months prior? I'm not saying I could just shoot someone in cold blood while they are laying there bleeding and dying. But what if these wonderful kids had driven him over the edge?

OR we could look at the facts as they are.

Just throwing that out there...

[SAUTO]

that's why it's best to empty the gun and not stop shooting.

not entirely true.


my wife's real father killed a guy in his house about 11 years ago.

the guy actually shot him at the same time but FIL didnt stop until the gun was empty. they tried like hell to charge him with something, and it took him over a year to get his gun back

[Pitt Gorilla]

Two druggie thief teenagers are dead because they broke into a guys house who had a gun. That's it. End of story. They are dead. It doesn't matter if they would have died with the first shot or later, they are dead.pretty much none of this. Exactly the opposite, actually.

[saphojunkie]

I am shocked and saddened that so many of you believe that a couple of kids breaking into a house (which I venture a lot of you have done just as a goof) deserved to be executed.

Even if they DID intend to steal. Really? They deserve to be executed for stealing? Thanks, Al Qaeda.

WTF is wrong with you hillbillies?

[SAUTO]

I am shocked and saddened that so many of you believe that a couple of kids breaking into a house (which I venture a lot of you have done just as a goof) deserved to be executed.

Even if they DID intend to steal. Really? They deserve to be executed for stealing? Thanks, Al Qaeda.

WTF is wrong with you hillbillies?

what if he was home and not ready when they showed up? do you think they would have just left?

i know some guys i grew up with that are both serving life for killing a WWII vet that had hired them to mow his lawn. they came back and thought he was gone and broke in.

he was home and they laid him on his face and blew his head off for TEN FUCKING DOLLARS.

fuck people like that

[tooge]

pretty much none of this. Exactly the opposite, actually.

So the guy should've done what? Either shot them in the chest to begin with, resulting in death, or shot them in the leg and called the cops, resulting in the possibility that he gets sued, or, not knowing if they are concealing a weapon, he gets killed. I'd do the same thing except I'd have waited a for the intruders to take a few more steps down to make sure it was a vital shot.

[SAUTO]

So the guy should've done what? Either shot them in the chest to begin with, resulting in death, or shot them in the leg and called the cops, resulting in the possibility that he gets sued, or, not knowing if they are concealing a weapon, he gets killed. I'd do the same thing except I'd have waited a for the intruders to take a few more steps down to make sure it was a vital shot.

yep, and used a bigger gun.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Playing devil's advocate here. People suggested the kids would later sue. Well, how about if, after he shot them the kids were threatening to come back and kill him later on? Or perhaps they had been threatening him in the months prior? I'm not saying I could just shoot someone in cold blood while they are laying there bleeding and dying. But what if these wonderful kids had driven him over the edge?

Even people driven "over the edge" don't have an excuse to murder people. They go to jail for it.

Just like this guy probably should.

[tooge]

yep, and used a bigger gun.

Bingo. People need to be aware of societal norms in the times they live in. These are scary times. People are armed and more trigger happy than ever. People are more on edge and stressed out than ever. Look at the cases of road rage for example.

You simply don't brake into another persons house. Period. If you do, you have to know that in todays world, there is a good chance you encounter an armed homeowner that will shoot to kill you.

Is it tragic? Sure it is. I'm sure the intruders had people that loved them. That doesn't change the fact that they were in the wrong to begin with.

[tooge]

break, i know.

[SAUTO]

Bingo. People need to be aware of societal norms in the times they live in. These are scary times. People are armed and more trigger happy than ever. People are more on edge and stressed out than ever. Look at the cases of road rage for example.

You simply don't brake into another persons house. Period. If you do, you have to know that in todays world, there is a good chance you encounter an armed homeowner that will shoot to kill you.

Is it tragic? Sure it is. I'm sure the intruders had people that loved them. That doesn't change the fact that they were in the wrong to begin with.
kinda off subject if you hit someone's house your brakes might not be working correctly.






:fire:

[SAUTO]

break, i know.

you are too fucking quick:cuss:

[tooge]

you are too ****ing quick:cuss:

heh. Read my own post and went "doh"!!!!!!!

[Gravedigger]

It would've been fun to see these "He was right to do what he did" if it were their child who would've been executed. They'd say, "My kids wouldn't break into a persons house." Or "My kid wouldn't steal my gun and bring it to school." Well somebody's kid does this stuff all the time, pray that it isn't your child next time because you won't get much sympathy on this board.

[Radar Chief]

yep, and used a bigger gun.

= why if I have to go clearing the house I’m grabbing my Colt .45.

[SAUTO]

It would've been fun to see these "He was right to do what he did" if it were their child who would've been executed. They'd say, "My kids wouldn't break into a persons house." Or "My kid wouldn't steal my gun and bring it to school." Well somebody's kid does this stuff all the time, pray that it isn't your child next time because you won't get much sympathy on this board.

i have tried my damndest to teach my kids that this is what happens if you are in someone else's house or car.

[Lzen]

OR we could look at the facts as they are.

Just throwing that out there...

Well, sure. But then we wouldn't have this long thread. ;) Lots of speculation here and we still don't know all of the facts. More and more are coming out all the time.

[SAUTO]

= why if I have to go clearing the house I’m grabbing my Colt .45.

i keep a judge next to the bed.

a .45 acp in the dresser.

a remington 870 in the front closet.

[Frazod]

I am shocked and saddened that so many of you believe that a couple of kids breaking into a house (which I venture a lot of you have done just as a goof) deserved to be executed.

Even if they DID intend to steal. Really? They deserve to be executed for stealing? Thanks, Al Qaeda.

WTF is wrong with you hillbillies?

I am shocked and saddened that there are so many fucking pussies out there who think like this.

[Predarat]

This mans charges should be reduced to running a red light camera, make him pay a $50 fine and be done with it.

[ptlyon]

This mans charges should be reduced to running a red light camera, make him pay a $50 fine and be done with it.

Jesus, ours is $187 here, I think

[Predarat]

Jesus, ours is $187 here, I think

They all end up that way, its a scam. They will say its a $50 fine, claim they sent you a letter and a bill when they did not, so they send you another one with over $100 of late fees and court costs when they never sent the letter to begin with. Those damn things should be illegal.

[ptlyon]

They all end up that way, its a scam. They will say its a $50 fine, claim they sent you a letter and a bill when they did not, so they send you another one with over $100 of late fees and court costs when they never sent the letter to begin with. Those damn things should be illegal.

No, no added late fees. Thats what has people so pissed off. It's not like they were driving drunk or anything. They give a portion to the camera maker. & yes, they should be on the list of what govt imposes on you as illegal.

[Lzen]

i keep a judge next to the bed.

a .45 acp in the dresser.

a remington 870 in the front closet.

Holy crap! :eek: You're not messing around.

[ptlyon]

Holy crap! :eek: You're not messing around.

Same here, except a 9 mil in the dresser, and the 870 behind the bedroom door

[WhiteWhale]

I'll say it again.

Fatally shooting a defenseless person is murder 100% of the time.

End of story.

[Xanathol]

I am shocked and saddened that so many of you believe that a couple of kids breaking into a house (which I venture a lot of you have done just as a goof) deserved to be executed.

Even if they DID intend to steal. Really? They deserve to be executed for stealing? Thanks, Al Qaeda.

WTF is wrong with you hillbillies?People like you are what's wrong with the world today, where you want to twist the roles of what actually happened and punish those who should be defended, defending those who should be punished.

You want to toss a guy away for defending himself and his property from deadbeat piece of shit teens who have repeatedly executed crimes against him that the justice system hasn't managed to stop, yet dismiss these cancers on society, defending their CRIMES as not being 'that bad' or 'something we've all done'... No, we have not 'all done it' because we are not all criminals and if we were criminals, as a CRIMINAL you have given up the right to bitch about how your VICTIM decides to deal with you, because as a VICTIM, if you are willing to break one law to hurt me or my interest, how do I know you're not going to break another / escalate? Your line of thinking is the influence behind why our justice system doesn't adequately address these problem people to begin with, which leads to.... drum roll... them continuing to commit crimes and escalating those crimes!

I wonder how 'understanding' you would be if trash like this were constantly robbing and harassing you every time you turned around with no one there to help you and being unable to help yourself, because you know, its 'not that bad'...

[Xanathol]

I'll say it again.

Fatally shooting a defenseless person is murder 100% of the time.

End of story.

To spin a quote from Clint Eastwood, "well, they should have armed themselves if they were going to keep breaking the law".

[Omaha]

I'll say it again.

Fatally shooting a defenseless person is murder 100% of the time.

End of story.

Edit: You are 100% correct.

[ptlyon]

People like you are what's wrong with the world today, where you want to twist the roles of what actually happened and punish those who should be defended, defending those who should be punished.

You want to toss a guy away for defending himself and his property from deadbeat piece of shit teens who have repeatedly executed crimes against him that the justice system hasn't managed to stop, yet dismiss these cancers on society, defending their CRIMES as not being 'that bad' or 'something we've all done'... No, we have not 'all done it' because we are not all criminals and if we were criminals, as a CRIMINAL you have given up the right to bitch about how your VICTIM decides to deal with you, because as a VICTIM, if you are willing to break one law to hurt me or my interest, how do I know you're not going to break another / escalate? Your line of thinking is the influence behind why our justice system doesn't adequately address these problem people to begin with, which leads to.... drum roll... them continuing to commit crimes and escalating those crimes!

I wonder how 'understanding' you would be if trash like this were constantly robbing and harassing you every time you turned around with no one there to help you and being unable to help yourself, because you know, its 'not that bad'...

FUCKING.AWESOME. :clap:

[WhiteWhale]

People like you are what's wrong with the world today, where you want to twist the roles of what actually happened and punish those who should be defended, defending those who should be punished.

You want to toss a guy away for defending himself and his property from deadbeat piece of shit teens who have repeatedly executed crimes against him that the justice system hasn't managed to stop, yet dismiss these cancers on society, defending their CRIMES as not being 'that bad' or 'something we've all done'... No, we have not 'all done it' because we are not all criminals and if we were criminals, as a CRIMINAL you have given up the right to bitch about how your VICTIM decides to deal with you, because as a VICTIM, if you are willing to break one law to hurt me or my interest, how do I know you're not going to break another / escalate? Your line of thinking is the influence behind why our justice system doesn't adequately address these problem people to begin with, which leads to.... drum roll... them continuing to commit crimes and escalating those crimes!

I wonder how 'understanding' you would be if trash like this were constantly robbing and harassing you every time you turned around with no one there to help you and being unable to help yourself, because you know, its 'not that bad'...

You can't defend yourself against a defenseless person. That's murder.

[WhiteWhale]

To spin a quote from Clint Eastwood, "well, they should have armed themselves if they were going to keep breaking the law".

If someone picks a fight with you and you beat their ass, you can't jump on their back and break their neck.

Murder is murder, even if you applaud it.

[Omaha]

You want to toss a guy away for defending himself and his property from deadbeat piece of shit teens who have repeatedly executed crimes against him that the justice system hasn't managed to stop, yet dismiss these cancers on society, defending

No. Nobody wants to "toss the guy away" for defending himself. The problem is what he did after he successfully defended himself.

[WhiteWhale]

No. Nobody wants to "toss the guy away" for defending himself. The problem is what he did after he successfully defended himself.

I applaud him for what he did, up until he murdered them in cold blood.

It amazes me that people can't see this line. It's an important line to understand if someone breaks into your home. The difference between no charges and murder charges...

[Dave Lane]

No. Nobody wants to "toss the guy away" for defending himself. The problem is what he did after he successfully defended himself.

I think half these idiots didn't read the story just the parts they like, like christians with the bible.

[Predarat]

No, no added late fees. Thats what has people so pissed off. It's not like they were driving drunk or anything. They give a portion to the camera maker. & yes, they should be on the list of what govt imposes on you as illegal.

If the precious Juvi Delinquents in this story had been doing somthing useful like vandalizing and destoying red light cameras instead of breaking into peoples houses they would still be alive today.

[SAUTO]

Holy crap! :eek: You're not messing around.

I live in a small, Meth rampant town and own a business where I deal in quite a but of cash.

Come get it tweakers. Lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

And I have two guns at the shop. Cheap ones though. Ever since the judge walked out.

Glad it came back
Posted via Mobile Device

[Aries Walker]

I should point out that the fact that he used a gun is beside the point; he would be just as guilty had he used a knife, tomahawk, sword, or chainsaw.

[Reerun_KC]

.380 on my night stand. .45 under my bed 12 gauge by head board.


.380 on wife night stand. .38 under bed 20 gauge by her head board.

15 year old son has 9mm on his night stand and 12 gauge by head board.

When seconds count sherriff 35+ min away. I call 911 when threat is eliminated and house secure.

Its not murder its cleaning up the gene pool.

[Rain Man]

I should point out that the fact that he used a gun is beside the point; he would be just as guilty had he used a knife, tomahawk, sword, or chainsaw.

But not if he had used a botched appendectomy surgery. Then it would only be civil. So the lesson is, if you kill an intruder, make it look like he/she was there for an appendectomy.

[Aries Walker]

.380 on my night stand. .45 under my bed 12 gauge by head board.


.380 on wife night stand. .38 under bed 20 gauge by her head board.

15 year old son has 9mm on his night stand and 12 gauge by head board.

When seconds count sherriff 35+ min away. I call 911 when threat is eliminated and house secure.

Its not murder its cleaning up the gene pool.
I think you may have seen In Cold Blood one time too many. Who the f*** are expecting, that the three of you need eight firearms to clear them out?

[Rain Man]

I think you may have seen In Cold Blood one time too many. Who the f*** are expecting, that the three of you need eight firearms to clear them out?

I'm kind of worried that his son only has two guns. Why is he shorthanded when he's out on the flank?

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

He knew the boy personally, since he had worked for him in the past. That changes things quite alot. They were wounded and he had to have recognized them before finishing them off. Reads like revenge to me.

[Pitt Gorilla]

No. Nobody wants to "toss the guy away" for defending himself. The problem is what he did after he successfully defended himself.Correct. Some idiots here won't be able to understand such a simple argument, but that's what makes CP CP.

[saphojunkie]

I think half these idiots didn't read the story just the parts they like, like christians with the bible.

You atheism argument is so fetch.




In that, it's not happening. Quit trying to make fetch happen.

[BigMeatballDave]

.380 on my night stand. .45 under my bed 12 gauge by head board.


.380 on wife night stand. .38 under bed 20 gauge by her head board.

15 year old son has 9mm on his night stand and 12 gauge by head board.

When seconds count sherriff 35+ min away. I call 911 when threat is eliminated and house secure.

Its not murder its cleaning up the gene pool.

This story is murder.

I'm 100% in support of the 2nd amendment and the right to protect himself.

This fucker slaughtered these kids.

[Saul Good]

The dude shot the girl several times in the chest, walked up to her, dragged her across the room, and shot her in the head. He was not in fear for his life when he shot her in the head, or he wouldn't have dragged her across the room first.

[tooge]

No. Nobody wants to "toss the guy away" for defending himself. The problem is what he did after he successfully defended himself.

Too dead/ Omaha

[Dayze]

Lol

[Garcia Bronco]

I wouldn't convict him. I wouldn't have convicted the store clerk either.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I wouldn't convict him. I wouldn't have convicted the store clerk either.You really are a f*cking idiot.

[wazu]

Sounds like a case of everybody involved getting what they deserve.

[Garcia Bronco]

You really are a ****ing idiot.

Or maybe I've been in several life threatening situations that have made me feel this why. Maybe I've been the subject of a home invasion. Maybe I've had relatives killed in mass shootings. Until you've experinced these things maybe you need to shut the fuck up. I might not have to feel this way if the dirtbags of the world weren't tolerated by the dipshit of thw world.

[Reerun_KC]

I think you may have seen In Cold Blood one time too many. Who the f*** are expecting, that the three of you need eight firearms to clear them out?

Why do you care how many fire arms I have to protect my home... And hopefully no one is stupid enough to try and come in our house at night uninvited.

but there are plenty of Meth heads out here, so who knows...

[Reerun_KC]

This story is murder.

I'm 100% in support of the 2nd amendment and the right to protect himself.

This ****er slaughtered these kids.

Yes the story is murder. I wasnt referring to this story with my statement.

My appologies that it was taken as such.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm kind of worried that his son only has two guns. Why is he shorthanded when he's out on the flank?

You know, thats a good point, I will wait til prices come down here shortly then will get him another one for his room...

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[Radar Chief]

I'm kind of worried that his son only has two guns. Why is he shorthanded when he's out on the flank?

Considering his age he’s probably the fastest of the three, a.k.a. the scout, and scouts don’t stand toe to toe slugging it out with the enemy. They hit and run and bring intel back to the main force.

[Radar Chief]

You know, thats a good point, I will wait til prices come down here shortly then will get him another one for his room...

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Don’t you mean get you a new gun and he can have a hand-me-down?

[Reerun_KC]

Don’t you mean get you a new gun and he can have a hand-me-down?:hmmm:

CP is wise beyond its years...

[ptlyon]

Why do you care how many fire arms I have to protect my home... And hopefully no one is stupid enough to try and come in our house at night uninvited.

but there are plenty of Meth heads out here, so who knows...

"Welcome to my home. As a warning, that door was locked for YOUR protection."

[BigCatDaddy]

Let this be a lesson to anybody out there thinking about breaking into someone's home. Some people don't fuck around!

[Predarat]

Two punk kids broke into a mans house over and over again. The last time they did it:
THEY......NEVER.............CAME..............BACK.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q6iKngO2OIo/UGe7rOjJxcI/AAAAAAAAAcE/kTVKXNLJ7Vs/s1600/well_bye_2.jpg

[displacedinMN]

Update Sept 30, 2013

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. - The man accused of killing two teenagers who broke into his Little Falls-area home on Thanksgiving Day is due in Morrison County District Court Friday for hearing at which he will challenge evidence against him.

Byron David Smith, 65, faces two counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of cousins Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18. The hearing Friday is expected to last the balance of the day.

Smith has been free since posting $50,000 conditional bail after he was initially charged with second-degree murder. A grand jury later indicted him on first-degree murder charges.

Smith is accused of killing Kifer and Brady after the two broke into his house north of Little Falls. Smith shot the teens multiple times and left their bodies in the house for a day before authorities were notified, according to a court complaint charging him.

Smith told investigators that he was acting in self-defense when he shot the teenagers, a claim that prosecutors and investigators are challenging. The shooting sparked debate about how much force homeowners can use when protecting their property against an intruder.

Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said immediately after the shootings that Smith exceeded that amount of force when he shot the teens after previous gunshots had rendered them incapable of being an ongoing threat.

Court records accuse Smith of shooting Kifer and Brady several minutes apart after the teens broke into his house. He told authorities that his home had been previously broken into.

Surveillance equipment captured video of the break-in, and a digital audio recorder caught audio of the shootings, according to court records.

[HonestChieffan]

Hope Byron gets off on this bullshit Hope the prosecutor never finds work again

[aturnis]

Good. What he did was murder kids. Protecting your property is one thing. Shooting a kid to the ground, then putting them down like an animal is another.

Hope he's dead soon.

[BWillie]

All u gotta do if you are this guy is not say stupid shit to the cops. He deserves what he gets

[lewdog]

I've always asked myself if your home gets intruded...Is it better to kill them so they can't sue you for some bullshit or will you get in more trouble if you kill them?

It a fine fucking line nowadays, which is pretty absurd if you think about anyone coming in to threaten you or your family. I'm not about to determine how much of a threat they possess or if they're armed.

[T-post Tom]

DC. Or better yet: new forum for "Guns & 2nd Amendment Rants".

[BWillie]

Lol at you ppl worried about getting sued by shooting home intruders

[Eleazar]

Sure he's a murderer, and hopefully he goes down as one.

It's common sense though that if you break into a house there's a chance you'll get shot.

[lewdog]

Lol at you ppl worried about getting sued by shooting home intruders

It happens all the time. A quick google searched listed multiple incidents just on the first page.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues-calif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/

[BWillie]

It happens all the time. A quick google searched listed multiple incidents just on the first page.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues-calif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/

I could sue you for anything I want, doesnt mean ill be successful. There are cases where burglars or trespassers can sue for getting hurt on your property but its usually for having an attractive nuisance or a "TRAP" of some sort to lure them

[threebag]

Head Shots Only

[lewdog]

I could sue you for anything I want, doesnt mean ill be successful. There are cases where burglars or trespassers can sue for getting hurt on your property but its usually for having an attractive nuisance or a "TRAP" of some sort to lure them

I suppose just aim for one bullet to the head and you don't have to worry about someone saying you used excessive force or suing you if they live.

What this guy did was clearly excessive force but I can't imagine how enraged I would be if people broke into my house.

[KCUnited]

Too bad this didn't happen in Missouri or his lawyers could go with the at least it wasn't a deer defense.

[Frazod]

I could sue you for anything I want, doesnt mean ill be successful. There are cases where burglars or trespassers can sue for getting hurt on your property but its usually for having an attractive nuisance or a "TRAP" of some sort to lure them

Sure, but you still have to shell out for a lawyer, and unless it's Your Cousin Vinnie, he won't represent you for free. Could still be life ruining.

[BWillie]

Glad this didnt happen in Texas. This guy is just a guilty as Joe Horn (case that happened in Texas where he was acquitted)

[Frazod]

Number of homes robbed by these pieces of fucking dogshit since they got greased - ZERO.

:clap:

[rabblerouser]

so much win!!

[Dave Lane]

Good. What he did was murder kids. Protecting your property is one thing. Shooting a kid to the ground, then putting them down like an animal is another.

Hope he's dead soon.

He'll be dead soon one way or the other. That said hope he spends the last of his murdering life behind bars.

[Phobia]

I'm not shedding any tears for the kids. They were obviously trash. But this dude offed them. He should probably pay. But if he somehow gets over, I won't be too upset about that either.

[Frazod]

He'll be dead soon one way or the other. That said hope he spends the last of his murdering life behind bars.

I hope he beats the rap, just so we get to hear all you gushing vaginas cry about it some more.

[bricks]

It doesn't sound like the homeowners life was in danger. The kids didn't try to attack him. He was waiting for them and he was the one who initiated the attack and executed them.

Can he really use self-defense as an excuse?

I can't see how his actions blend in or comply with Minnesota law.