For all those who think Baldwin is a bust

[Buckweath]

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/11/30/3708594/gifd-up-jon-baldwin-is-open


That's just two plays but considering Quinn has been slightly better than Cassell this year and doesn't stare Bowe as much as Cassell, I'm thinking Baldwin has probably been open many times this season only to see an awful pass thrown by our two clowns.

I'm pretty sure Baldwin could produce with a good QB, hopefully Geno Smith next year.

[DaKCMan AP]

Baldwin was a badass in college and I wasn't even sure he'd last to the Chiefs pick. I think he can produce fine if we had a competent QB instead of bad and worse.

[mcaj22]

hes so good he only plays 15 snaps.

[The Franchise]

Baldwin was a badass in college and I wasn't even sure he'd last to the Chiefs pick. I think he can produce fine if we had a competent QB instead of bad and worse.

This.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm glad Quinn was playing because I bet Cassel would have hit two big plays on those passes.

[notorious]

I am not a Baldwin fan, but any talent this team has is going to be hamstrung by our coaches.

[Nightfyre]

Baldwin was a badass in college and I wasn't even sure he'd last to the Chiefs pick. I think he can produce fine if we had a competent QB instead of bad and worse.

Awesome post from awesome poster. Baldwin has elite athleticism, body control and hands. Good coaching and good quarteracking could make him a superstar.

[HolyHat]

The guy HAS to figure out his routes. He was good in College just off his raw ability/size. It hasn't translated to the pros because I don't think he has accepted the fact he needs to study the game. He still thinks he can get by with ability/size. Not gonna happen.

[NJChiefsFan]

hes so good he only plays 15 snaps.

Can you really judge on that? I don't know what Baldwin is at this point but Breaston wasn't playing for a while either. I am not sure using Romeo's decisions is the right way to decide what Baldwin is or isn't.

[bevischief]

Awesome post from awesome poster. Baldwin has elite athleticism, body control and hands. Good coaching and good quarteracking could make him a superstar.

This.

[Rain Man]

It's true that a wide receiver is worthless unless the quarterback looks at him. That first play in the article makes me vomit without respite. That's a touchdown for 90+ percent of quarterbacks in this league.

[Hammock Parties]

FYI that doesn't really prove crap. He got open twice because the defense basically left him open.

Still think he's shit but it'd be nice if the QB threw to him when the defense forgot about him like that.

[SAUTO]

this just shows what a fucking troll clay REALLY is.

[alpha_omega]

We....(stuttering)

I.....

Jon Baldwin....

Things are so bad with this team, i can't even respond properly. He might be good, but how the hell will we ever know.

[SAUTO]

FYI that doesn't really prove crap. He got open twice because the defense basically left him open.

Still think he's shit but it'd be nice if the QB threw to him when the defense forgot about him like that.

STFU

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm glad Quinn was playing because I bet Cassel would have hit two big plays on those passes.

LMAO Okay...

[Bump]

who knows at this point. But he seems to pretty much suck. I'm sure he would catch more balls with a better QB though, doesn't mean he's good.

[ModSocks]

The 1st Gif just shows how slow and lumbering he is. Dude is not fast, not explosive, and plays with less strength than Bowe.

I don't feel like he's a bust yet, but he's not looking like a 1st round talent either.

[Hammock Parties]

this just shows what a fucking troll clay REALLY is.

ROFL

Hey, I just think it's interesting he was that open. Doesn't change my opinion of him.

Merely interesting that he was open for a TD and ignored. That's all. Quiet now.

[BigMeatballDave]

hes so good he only plays 15 snaps.

Do you always talk out of both sides of your mouth?

Is the coaching here bad, or is it just the players?

I know its entirely possible for both to be true, but I think good coaching could help Baldwin a lot.

[mcaj22]

definitely a bust. he wont be on this team by year 2 or 3 of the new coaching staffs rebuilding plan

that will be evident by whatever skill position players they draft to put around our Geno (or new QB).

[DJ's left nut]

who knows at this point. But he seems to pretty much suck. I'm sure he would catch more balls with a better QB though, doesn't mean he's good.

It means you don't bury him yet.

He's open all the damn time - we just don't look at him. It's foolish to give up on him yet, especially with glaring needs at 2b, Safety and DE that need to be filled immediately.

[Nightfyre]

The problem is that we have these big posession receivers and qbs who are coached not to take a risk by throwing up a jumpball for them. If the primary read is covered, they are coached to check down. They can't even hit their checkdowns in stride, so it is completely fruitless. It is amazing how good quarterbacking and coaching will instantly change this team. The oline will look better, the receivers better, and the running game will open up tremendously.

[mcaj22]

Do you always talk out of both sides of your mouth?

Is the coaching here bad, or is it just the players?

I know its entirely possible for both to be true, but I think good coaching could help Baldwin a lot.

ive been saying its the players since training camp. so Ive been doing the same argument since August.

[ModSocks]

who knows at this point. But he seems to pretty much suck. I'm sure he would catch more balls with a better QB though, doesn't mean he's good.

I agree.

He's had chances. The plays we expect him to make, he doesn't make. He has a lot of trouble adjusting to the ball in the air. How many times have we watched him slow down and then mis-time his jump?

It didn't take 2 seasons for Julio Jones or AJ Green to show the NFL how good they were. It was obvious since the pre-season.

I'm tired of making excuses for all these players as to why they aren't producing.

Good WR's can produce despite bad QB play. There is no excuse for Baldwin.

[BigMeatballDave]

The 1st Gif just shows how slow and lumbering he is.

Huh? He made that DB look bad, and these gifs are not full speed.

[The Franchise]

I agree.

He's had chances. The plays we expect him to make, he doesn't make. He has a lot of trouble adjusting to the ball in the air. How many times have we watched him slow down and then mis-time his jump.

It didn't take 2 seasons for Julio Jones or AJ Green to show the NFL how good they were. It was obvious since the pre-season.

I'm tired of making excuses for all these players as to why they aren't producing.

Good WR's can produce despite bad QB play. There is no excuse for Baldwin.

:spock:

[Dave Lane]

Given our QB situation there is no possible way to evaluate the WRs on this team.

[NJChiefsFan]

definitely a bust. he wont be on this team by year 2 or 3 of the new coaching staffs rebuilding plan

that will be evident by whatever skill position players they draft to put around our Geno (or new QB).

Maybe so. It's still a little backwards to hear you(rightfully so) complain about the coaches and then use the amount of times Baldwin is on the field as proof that he sucks. If the coaches suck, how can their decisions be proof of anything?

Baldwin will be better with a better QB, but as mentioned by Buck, that doesn't mean he is a good WR. I still hold out hope that he can be a decent #2 with a good WR. I just don't see enough proof either way right now. A ton of stuff going against the kid right now, both the coaching and the fact that our QB's never progress to a 2nd read. That being said, what I have seen of him hasn't exactly blown my pants off. Hopefully we will get a solid QB in here and find out the truth.

[BigMeatballDave]

ive been saying its the players since training camp. so Ive been doing the same argument since August.

Oh, so the coaching is good.

Got it.

[The Franchise]

First off....NO ONE has compared him to Jones or Green. And last time I checked......Green and Jones have actual fucking QBs to get them the ball. Oh and an OC that knows how to call plays.

Baldwin's 1st season was a loss because of that douchebag Thomas Jones. And then right after that.....we fired the coach that was probably the best thing for his career.

[NJChiefsFan]

ive been saying its the players since training camp. so Ive been doing the same argument since August.

Double talk isn't saying he is good and then backing out. Double talk is saying the coaches suck but then using the coaches decisions as proof that a player sucks.

[BigMeatballDave]

I'll wait until we get some solid QB play and coaching in here before claiming he's a bust.

[bevischief]

First off....NO ONE has compared him to Jones or Green. And last time I checked......Green and Jones have actual ****ing QBs to get them the ball. Oh and an OC that knows how to call plays.

Baldwin's 1st season was a loss because of that douchebag Thomas Jones. And then right after that.....we fired the coach that was probably the best thing for his career.

This.

[notorious]

The 1st Gif just shows how slow and lumbering he is. Dude is not fast, not explosive, and plays with less strength than Bowe.

I don't feel like he's a bust yet, but he's not looking like a 1st round talent either.

Damnit, don't get me started.


He is slow as fuck.

[mcaj22]

First off....NO ONE has compared him to Jones or Green. And last time I checked......Green and Jones have actual ****ing QBs to get them the ball. Oh and an OC that knows how to call plays.

Baldwin's 1st season was a loss because of that douchebag Thomas Jones. And then right after that.....we fired the coach that was probably the best thing for his career.


actually our wonderful GM compared him to Jones lol

[BigMeatballDave]

I hate Pioli as much as anyone here, but I'm not going to allow that hatred to cloud my judgment of these players.

[mcaj22]

Double talk isn't saying he is good and then backing out. Double talk is saying the coaches suck but then using the coaches decisions as proof that a player sucks.

and where did i say any of this

[ModSocks]

:spock:

?

Look at the QB's Bowe has produced with.

How about Fitz right now?

Megatron before he got Stafford?

Rody White before Matt Ryan?

There are plenty of examples of WR's who've produced despite bad QB play.

Yeah, our coaches suck and our QB's suck. I don't care. Great players produce any damn way.

Would he be better with a better QB? Obviously.

I don't think he's as bad as his numbers suggest, but i don't think he's as good as what we thought he was when he was drafted.

[Bump]

It means you don't bury him yet.

He's open all the damn time - we just don't look at him. It's foolish to give up on him yet, especially with glaring needs at 2b, Safety and DE that need to be filled immediately.

the way camera angles work when watching, you can't tell who's open. Is he really open all of the time?

[NJChiefsFan]

I agree.

It didn't take 2 seasons for Julio Jones or AJ Green to show the NFL how good they were. It was obvious since the pre-season.

I'm tired of making excuses for all these players as to why they aren't producing.

Good WR's can produce despite bad QB play. There is no excuse for Baldwin.

I don't think even the big Baldwin supporters think he will be either of those two guys. Those are going to be elite WR's in this league. Hell Green already is. That doesn't mean he can't be a useful WR.

To me it's not an excuse to look at the QB. Look at Larry Fitzgerald right now. AJ and Julio have QB's to throw him the ball. Baldwin isn't exactly killing it now either. In this offense being the #2 WR kills your stats. Granted Breaston did better last year at this position than Baldwin now but I still think its a major disadvantage for the guy. Enough to wait and see on him.

[NJChiefsFan]

and where did i say any of this

You don't have a problem with the coaching? Mentioning his snap count is implying that the coaches don't trust him.

?

How about Fitz right now?
.

WHAT? Dude is about to have his first season below 1,000 yards since 2006 when he missed 3 games. He is NOT producing with a bad QB.

[ModSocks]

First off....NO ONE has compared him to Jones or Green. And last time I checked......Green and Jones have actual ****ing QBs to get them the ball. Oh and an OC that knows how to call plays.

Baldwin's 1st season was a loss because of that douchebag Thomas Jones. And then right after that.....we fired the coach that was probably the best thing for his career.

Why are we not comparing him to Green and Jones? Are they not 1st round WR's? How about Dez Bryant? Can we compare him to Dez?

Who are we suppose to compare him to?

2nd or 3rd round talents?

I understand that he gets limited opportunities, but he sure as hell doesn't take advantage of the opportunities that he does get.

[BigMeatballDave]

?

Look at the QB's Bowe has produced with.

How about Fitz right now?

Megatron before he got Stafford?

Rody White before Matt Ryan?

There are plenty of examples of WR's who've produced despite bad QB play.

Yeah, our coaches suck and our QB's suck. I don't care. Great players produce any damn way.

Would he be better with a better QB? Obviously.

I don't think he's as bad as his numbers suggest, but i don't think he's as good as what we thought he was when he was drafted.Bowe did not have to develop under Daboll.

This is some fantastic shitfest of a coaching staff we have here.

I'll wait.

[ModSocks]

You don't have a problem with the coaching? Mentioning his snap count is implying that the coaches don't trust him.



WHAT? Dude is about to have his first season below 1,000 yards since 2006 when he missed 3 games. He is NOT producing with a bad QB.

Outside of the Warner years, he HAS produced with shit QB's.

[DaKCMan AP]

definitely a bust. he wont be on this team by year 2 or 3 of the new coaching staffs rebuilding plan

that will be evident by whatever skill position players they draft to put around our Geno (or new QB).

ive been saying its the players since training camp. so Ive been doing the same argument since August.


:hmmm:

So you are as dumb as you look. Neat.

[NJChiefsFan]

Why are we not comparing him to Green and Jones? Are they not 1st round WR's? How about Dez Bryant? Can we compare him to Dez?

Who are we suppose to compare him to?

2nd or 3rd round talents?

I understand that he gets limited opportunities, but he sure as hell doesn't take advantage of the opportunities that he does get.

We aren't comparing him to those guys because most of us don't see that as his ceiling anymore. Just because we haven't given up on him doesn't mean we still think he has Green potential. All 3 of those guys have more raw talent then Baldwin IMO. Doesn't mean I think Baldwin is a bust. I would like to see what Baldwin could do with any of those 3 QBs.

[The Franchise]

I never even said that Baldwin would be a great #1 before he got drafted. I've always thought that he would light it up as a #2. The guys development has been fucking stunted by this horrible coaching staff.

[DaKCMan AP]

Why are we not comparing him to Green and Jones? Are they not 1st round WR's? How about Dez Bryant? Can we compare him to Dez?

Who are we suppose to compare him to?

2nd or 3rd round talents?

I understand that he gets limited opportunities, but he sure as hell doesn't take advantage of the opportunities that he does get.

#4 and #6 overall are the same as #26 overall?

[ModSocks]

We aren't comparing him to those guys because most of us don't see that as his ceiling anymore. Just because we haven't given up on him doesn't mean we still think he has Green potential. All 3 of those guys have more raw talent then Baldwin IMO. Doesn't mean I think Baldwin is a bust. I would like to see what Baldwin could do with any of those 3 QBs.

Im not calling him a bust yet either. But he's clearly not who he was drafted to be.

And he SHOULD be compared to other 1st round WR's.....after all .....that's what he IS.

CP has a double standard with players.

You guys have no issues comparing McCluster and Arenas and Stephenson etc to other 2nd/3rd rounders.....but we're not suppose to apply that to Baldwin?

Right now, Baldwin's "ceiling" is looking like a 700-800 yard receiver at best.

[DJ's left nut]

:spock:

Yup.

You're either AJ Green or Julio Jones...or you're crap.

Fans, man...

[SAUTO]

ROFL

Hey, I just think it's interesting he was that open. Doesn't change my opinion of him.

Merely interesting that he was open for a TD and ignored. That's all. Quiet now.

yeah i read your shit on arrowhead pride from time to time.


my point stands, everything you write over there just shows what a fucking troll you are here.

[NJChiefsFan]

Im not calling him a bust yet either. But he's clearly not who he was drafted to be.

And he SHOULD be compared to other 1st round WR's.....after all .....that's what he IS.

CP has a double standard with players.

You guys have no issues comparing McCluster and Arenas and Stephenson etc to other 2nd/3rd rounders.....but we're not suppose to apply that to Baldwin?

Right now, Baldwin's "ceiling" is looking like a 700-800 yard receiver at best.

Ok. But to me comparing a 2nd rounder to a 2nd rounder is different than comparing 26 overall to 4 and 6 overall. Plus I don't hate Arenas.

I think whether a player should have been drafted at their spot and whether they help the team are two different arguments. I just think its unfair to compare him to AJ Green when he is top 3 WR for the next decade. I am not saying we should have taken him in the 1st, but I do hold out hope with him if we get a good QB.

I also think your Fitz comparison actually helps Baldwin. Guy is top 3 in the league and is going to have his first under 1,000 yard season since 06 when he was hurt. He has more talent then almost any WR in the league and he is an average at best WR this year. Certainly fantasy-wise for me, he has been a #3 at best.

[ModSocks]

#4 and #6 overall are the same as #26 overall?

Ok, how about Demaryius Thomas @ 22? Dez Bryant @ 24?

Torrey Smith, who went #26 of the second round?

He's not even in their league yet.

No excuses. Its time to face reality....Maybe these players just aren't that good.

[suds79]

I just don't understand how a QB doesn't see this.:shake:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1324555/jonb2.gif

[DJ's left nut]

Damnit, don't get me started.


He is slow as fuck.

No he isn't, he's just a long-strider.

He's not a quick player; he's not a guy that should be running slot routes. He's a guy that needs 10 yards to get up to speed.

So you probably don't run a ton of double moves with him. You run deep ins and deep outs (where DBs have to start to respect him as he gets up to speed). You run drag routes and you run simple goes or flag/option routes.

You use him how the Bucs use Vincent Jackson.

There are ways to use him and make him a valuable player - we just don't have the coaching staff or quarterback to do it. There's a lot of talent there.

[ModSocks]

Yup.

You're either AJ Green or Julio Jones...or you're crap.

Fans, man...

Is that i said?

Reading comprehension.

So, then who are suppose to compare him to?

Or does he get a "get out of jail free card" because Cassel and Crennel suck?

Fuck that.

He hasn't shown enough in his opportunities for that.

Right now, he looks like another Malcolm Floyd at best.

[ModSocks]

No he isn't, he's just a long-strider.

He's not a quick player; he's not a guy that should be running slot routes. He's a guy that needs 10 yards to get up to speed.

So you probably don't run a ton of double moves with him. You run deep ins and deep outs (where DBs have to start to respect him as he gets up to speed). You run drag routes and you run simple goes or flag/option routes.

You use him how the Bucs use Vincent Jackson.

There are ways to use him and make him a valuable player - we just don't have the coaching staff or quarterback to do it. There's a lot of talent there.

That's great and all.....but he's slow as fuck out of his cuts. He's not an agile guy. He looks and runs like a damn TE.

[Bowser]

No he isn't, he's just a long-strider.

He's not a quick player; he's not a guy that should be running slot routes. He's a guy that needs 10 yards to get up to speed.

So you probably don't run a ton of double moves with him. You run deep ins and deep outs (where DBs have to start to respect him as he gets up to speed). You run drag routes and you run simple goes or flag/option routes.

You use him how the Bucs use Vincent Jackson.

There are ways to use him and make him a valuable player - we just don't have the coaching staff or quarterback to do it. There's a lot of talent there.

Sounds a lot like Terrence Copper.

[Brock]

I bet if Orton were still here nobody would think he's a bust.

[DJ's left nut]

Ok, how about Demaryius Thomas @ 22? Dez Bryant @ 24?

Torrey Smith, who went #26 of the second round?

He's not even in their league yet.

No excuses. Its time to face reality....Maybe these players just aren't that good.

Peyton Manning.

Dez was a top 10 talent that fell due to character, oh and he also has a gunslinger QB that loves to go downfield and a HC that does the same.

Torrey Smith has one of the strongest arms in football firing deep balls to him. Smith would be absolute dogshit here.

[NJChiefsFan]

Ok, how about Demaryius Thomas @ 22? Dez Bryant @ 24?

Torrey Smith, who went #26 of the second round?

He's not even in their league yet.

No excuses. Its time to face reality....Maybe these players just aren't that good.

Compare Baldwin's rookie year to Thomas'. Both are equal. Compare their second year. Really not that much different at all. Now what's the difference between Thomas last year and this year? QB.

[BigMeatballDave]

1 season with shitty QBs and coaching and he sucks. Shocking.

Not sure how anyone could make a fair assessment.

Remember how Alex Smith sucked until he got some good coaching?

[Rasputin]

Not just Baldwin, but the team can be leaps and bounds better with good QB play.

[Bowser]

I bet if Orton were still here nobody would think he's a bust.

Seriously.

A QB with half an arm and that can read a defense? We're allowed to have those?

[ModSocks]

Ok. But to me comparing a 2nd rounder to a 2nd rounder is different than comparing 26 overall to 4 and 6 overall. Plus I don't hate Arenas.



I don't see it that way at all. If you're a first rounder, then show me that 1st round potential. I already gave examples of players taken around his slot that have out performed him.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Baldwin if we would actually show us something.

To this point, he's given us nothing to make me think that he's anything more than a 700 yard receiver. Average.

And if anyone thinks that's acceptable, then you've either lowered your expectations (which, judging by this thread many of you already have) or don't think a 1st round pick should be a cornerstone player.

[NJChiefsFan]

I don't see it that way at all. If you're a first rounder, then show me that 1st round potential. I already gave examples of players taken around his slot that have out performed him.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Baldwin if we would actually show us something.

To this point, he's given us nothing to make me think that he's anything more than a 700 yard receiver. Average.

And if anyone thinks that's acceptable, then you've either lowered your expectations (which, judging by this thread many of you already have) or don't think a 1st round pick should be a cornerstone player.

You mentioned Thomas. Thomas was showing 700 yard WR until he got a QB. You mention him, but he is actually a good argument for Baldwin. They both had near mirror rookie years.

[The Franchise]

I just don't understand how a QB doesn't see this.:shake:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1324555/jonb2.gif

Quinn saw the rusher....dropped his head down and then when he brought it back up.....he saw Bowe.

[Bowser]

Quinn saw the rusher....dropped his head down and then when he brought it back up.....he saw Bowe.

It looks like he pump fakes TOWARD Baldwin. He should have just thrown the damned thing.

[DJ's left nut]

That's great and all.....but he's slow as fuck out of his cuts. He's not an agile guy. He looks and runs like a damn TE.

He's not terribly fluid, that's true. He's not going to be a true #1 WR in this league.

But this gets back to where I so often end up in these conversations - this "He's a monster or he's crap" method of talent evaluation is just irritating.

Jon Baldwin can absolutely be a dangerous downfield threat if you're not giving him sharp cuts in tight spaces. Let him get up to speed and make a cut that utilizes the cushion that DBs have to give him deep (out of respect for his size and straight line speed).

Use him in a manner that will actually allow us to get something out of what he does do well. Would it be better if he had Bryant's hips? Yeah, but he doesn't. That doesn't mean he can't be a solid player for us if used correctly.

We don't have adequate coaching or quarterback play to use him as his skills would dictate. He's a guy that needs to be thrown to downfield in order to push the CBs off him and create space for him that he's not really going to be able to create for himself. If he can get just a little bit of space, he can use his size and strength to box out corners on intermediate routes or just flat out-jump them on deep routes.

There's skill there.

[ModSocks]

Peyton Manning.

Dez was a top 10 talent that fell due to character, oh and he also has a gunslinger QB that loves to go downfield and a HC that does the same.

Torrey Smith has one of the strongest arms in football firing deep balls to him. Smith would be absolute dogshit here.

Thomas was making big plays with Tim Tebow, FFS. Thomas showed Denver something well before Manning arrived. How many game winning TD's has Baldwin caught?

All i hear is excuses.

The player hasn't produced and CP has an excuse book a mile long for him.

What other player on this roster gets the leash that Baldwin gets? It's bullshit. Hold him accountable for his lack of production.

[mcaj22]

next thing you know theres going to be homers on here making a thread defending Jalil Brown too. Go ahead make it, I dare you

[ModSocks]

But this gets back to where I so often end up in these conversations - this "He's a monster or he's crap" method of talent evaluation is just irritating.



I haven't called him crap. I haven't called him a "bust" in the traditional sense.

I'm calling him exactly what you're describing. A limited WR that will likely average 700 yards a season with a good QB.

A Malcolm Floyd. A Robert Meachem.

Sorry if i expected more from #26 overall.

[The Franchise]

Thomas was making big plays with Tim Tebow, FFS. Thomas showed Denver something well before Manning arrived. How many game winning TD's has Baldwin caught?

All i hear is excuses.

The player hasn't produced and CP has an excuse book a mile long for him.

What other player on this roster gets the leash that Baldwin gets? It's bullshit. Hold him accountable for his lack of production.

Thomas was making the plays because the OC and QB would FORCE the fucking ball to him.

[ModSocks]

Thomas was making the plays because the OC and QB would FORCE the ****ing ball to him.

Ok.

But he made the plays, didn't he.

you gonna tell me Cassel hasn't tried to force throws to Baldwin?

[NJChiefsFan]

next thing you know theres going to be homers on here making a thread defending Jalil Brown too. Go ahead make it, I dare you

The world just isn't black and white. It isn't this guy is great this guy sucks no excuses. There are tons of factors that come into play. Its why talent evaluation is so hard. Some guys develop slower. I am not claiming Baldwin will be some star with a good QB. I am just saying calling him a bust is an early over-reaction.

[Hammock Parties]

yeah i read your shit on arrowhead pride from time to time.


my point stands, everything you write over there just shows what a fucking troll you are here.

Well, no, not really.

I post lots of shit over there about how shitty McCluster and Cassel and Pioli and Romeo are.

Kinda like here.

[DJ's left nut]

I haven't called him crap. I haven't called him a "bust" in the traditional sense.

I'm calling him exactly what you're describing. A limited WR that will likely average 700 yards a season with a good QB.

A Malcolm Floyd. A Robert Meachem.

Sorry if i expected more from #26 overall.

People aren't defending the pick, they're defending the player.

The player is worth having here and developing. The pick is what it is - Pioli is a bad general manager.

Though I don't think he's doomed to a life of 700 yd seasons. I mean hell, David Boston once put up a 1,600 yd season and he was less fluid in and out of his cuts than Glen Dorsey would've been.

I still think he can be a 1,000 yd WR if anyone would bother to actually look his way.

[AdumbGuy]

I agree.

He's had chances. The plays we expect him to make, he doesn't make. He has a lot of trouble adjusting to the ball in the air. How many times have we watched him slow down and then mis-time his jump?

It didn't take 2 seasons for Julio Jones or AJ Green to show the NFL how good they were. It was obvious since the pre-season.

I'm tired of making excuses for all these players as to why they aren't producing.

Good WR's can produce despite bad QB play. There is no excuse for Baldwin.

No, they can't. Was in Atlanta when Vick was casselling down there. Everybody thought Roddy White was a bust This was false.

[The Franchise]

Ok.

But he made the plays, didn't he.

you gonna tell me Cassel hasn't tried to force throws to Baldwin?

You trying to tell me that Baldwin has been getting targeted 12-15 times a game? Because that's what the Broncos and Tebow started doing with Thomas.

[RunKC]

This isn't the first time. Anybody remember the Raiders game last year when Orton threw the INT in the endzone in a double team while Baldwin was sitting there wide open by a mile?

A quality QB fixes a ton of problems on this team.

[Chief_For_Life58]

Thomas was making big plays with Tim Tebow, FFS. Thomas showed Denver something well before Manning arrived. How many game winning TD's has Baldwin caught?

All i hear is excuses.

The player hasn't produced and CP has an excuse book a mile long for him.

What other player on this roster gets the leash that Baldwin gets? It's bullshit. Hold him accountable for his lack of production.

u really cant evaluate offensive skill players until they have a good qb. look at all the guys manning n brady have turned into stars eventhough theyre just average nfl wide receivers. true baldwin hasent done horsesh#t for us yet but I wont call him a bust until we get a qb who can throw the ball further than 10 yards and has a pair of nuts

[ModSocks]

You trying to tell me that Baldwin has been getting targeted 12-15 times a game? Because that's what the Broncos and Tebow started doing with Thomas.

No. But what i am telling you is that when the ball actually comes his way, he's made big plays.

Baldwin has what, 1 big play on his resume?

That's not good enough.

[saphojunkie]

FYI that doesn't really prove crap. He got open twice because the defense basically left him open.

Still think he's shit but it'd be nice if the QB threw to him when the defense forgot about him like that.

The first one is a legit double move that left the CB crossed over. C'mon, now.

[The Franchise]

Roddy White with Vick:

952 yards and 3 TDs

in 2 seasons.

[ModSocks]

u really cant evaluate offensive skill players until they have a good qb.

That's funny. We were able to identify a pretty damn good talent early on with the likes Damon Huard and Brody Croyle.

Excuses.

[DJ's left nut]

next thing you know theres going to be homers on here making a thread defending Jalil Brown too. Go ahead make it, I dare you

Yes.

Because comparing a position that plays on an island to a position where the player's production is solely dependant on another player (who happens to be the worst in football at said position) is an apples to apples comparison.

Get this straw man bullshit out of here.

Explain to me how a deep threat WR is supposed to showcase anything in a system designed around a QB that refuses to go to his 3rd read while simultaneously refusing to make any downfield route higher than the 3rd read.

He's the 3rd option on the field at all times for a quarterback that will absolutely not ever go to his 3rd option. Bowe, McCluster...pants shit. Meanwhile Baldwin is open a ton.

But yeah, I'm sure we should just ignore that in favor of screaming "BUUUUUUST!"

[SAUTO]

Well, no, not really.

I post lots of shit over there about how shitty McCluster and Cassel and Pioli and Romeo are.

Kinda like here.

yeah OK:rolleyes:

[saphojunkie]

I absolutely, positively refuse to dismiss any wide receiver on this team while simultaneously complaining about historically bad quarterback play.

It's like complaining about your sailboat's rudder in the middle of a typhoon.

[HemiEd]

Baldwin was a badass in college and I wasn't even sure he'd last to the Chiefs pick. I think he can produce fine if we had a competent QB instead of bad and worse.

I agree 100%.

The Chief's fanbase and CP will have the patience to let a rookie QB develop, for sure. ROFL

[The Franchise]

Yes.

Because comparing a position that plays on an island to a position where the player's production is solely dependant on another player (who happens to be the worst in football at said position) is an apples to apples comparison.

Get this straw man bullshit out of here.

Explain to me how a deep threat WR is supposed to showcase anything in a system designed around a QB that refuses to go to his 3rd read while simultaneously refusing to make any downfield route higher than the 3rd read.

He's the 3rd option on the field at all times for a quarterback that will absolutely not ever go to his 3rd option. Bowe, McCluster...pants shit. Meanwhile Baldwin is open a ton.

But yeah, I'm sure we should just ignore that in favor of screaming "BUUUUUUST!"

Fucking this.

People are seriously going to sit there and tell me that McCluster is a better WR than Baldwin?

[mcaj22]

The world just isn't black and white. It isn't this guy is great this guy sucks no excuses. There are tons of factors that come into play. Its why talent evaluation is so hard. Some guys develop slower. I am not claiming Baldwin will be some star with a good QB. I am just saying calling him a bust is an early over-reaction.


Yes, it is that simple, the world IS black and white. And you are either a good player or you are not.

Justin Houston didnt just fucking get good because of this coaching staff and Baldwin didnt.

Justin Houston got good because hes a god damn freak playermaker talent that warranted his first round grade coming out of college. He has a high ceiling.

A guy like Baldwin is clearly capped, theres not that much potential there other than size and he can be a workout warrior in practice and make cool circus catches in shorts.

You either get good, or you are not

Randall Cobb didnt just get good because of Aaron Rodgers. He was always fast, he always had play maker talent. Same with Percy Harvin, Christian Ponder doesnt make him good. You are either good or you are not. Its called being a playmaker. Something this team lacks compared to most NFL teams, and thats not all on a crappy QB or coaching staff either. Its on the 4 years worth of bad drafting and lack of talent acquired in FA.

[ModSocks]

Roddy White with Vick:

952 yards and 3 TDs

in 2 seasons.

Jon Baldwin:

478 yard and 1 TD in 2 seasons.

Show

Me

Something.

[DJ's left nut]

The first one is a legit double move that left the CB crossed over. C'mon, now.

That first run exactly demonstrates how he needs to be used.

It wasn't a crisp cut and he didn't explode in or out of either break, but the CB had to respect his deep speed. Right as the CB started to turn his hips to respect that speed, Baldwin made a couple of easy breaks that turned that CB on his head.

Baldwin doesn't have to be a great route runner to be an effective route runner. He can use his strengths to cover his weaknesses if we make sure to have him run those routes that capitalize on a DBs fear of having to go up to get a ball deep with him.

If we did nothing but that, he'd be a dynamite deep threat. Go steal the route tree that the Dolphins are using for Brian Hartline and have him run it. He'd absolutely be effective with it.

[saphojunkie]

Jon Baldwin:

478 yard and 1 TD in 2 seasons.

Show

Me

Something.



http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g148/saphojunkie/will.jpg

[AirForceChief]

As poor as out QB play has been on all fronts for the last four years, one is hard pressed to make any accurate/critical assessment of our TEs or WRs. That's just one element that's so frustrating with today's Chief's offensive make-up: QB play so poor you can't assess the other parts of your offensive make-up. Do the WRs suck? Maybe. Can your TEs catch? Not sure. Does the O-line provide sufficient time for the QB to get through his progressions? Can't tell, our QBs necks don't seem to rotate, they stick on the first target they see on the left side of the field; unless they're flushed to the right and then flip the script.

Lost season for offensive assessment or growth due to crap QB play.

[keg in kc]

Baldwin's a bust. aka the instant gratification club strikes again.

[BigMeatballDave]

Jon Baldwin:

478 yard and 1 TD in 2 seasons.

Show

Me

Something.21 games

White's numbers were for 32 games.

[ModSocks]

I absolutely, positively refuse to dismiss any wide receiver on this team while simultaneously complaining about historically bad quarterback play.

It's like complaining about your sailboat's rudder in the middle of a typhoon.

Im not dismissing the player. I have no idea why people are saying that. What I am saying is, so far, what he's displayed is nothing more than average at best when given a chance to make a play.

Has he shown an innate ability to consistently catch the ball at it's highest point?

Does he consistently locate the ball in the air and get himself in the best position to make the catch?

Is he a great route runner?

Does he have great speed?

When given the chance, what exactly has he shown to make you believe that he'll be anything more than a role player?

[Hammock Parties]

yeah OK:rolleyes:

It's true. I rant and rave about our shittiness on there.

Prove otherwise.

[NJChiefsFan]

Yes, it is that simple, the world IS black and white. And you are either a good player or you are not.

Justin Houston didnt just ****ing get good because of this coaching staff and Baldwin didnt.
.

Plenty of players don't break out right away. Just because some are clear cut from the beginning doesn't mean all are.

[BigMeatballDave]

Yes, it is that simple, the world IS black and white. And you are either a good player or you are not.
Most need coaching and cannot get by on talent alone.

Alex Smith is a good example.

[The Franchise]

Some of you fuckers are not going to be able to handle drafting a QB in the 1st round.

[ModSocks]

Look, Baldwin has had 83 targets through 2 seasons.

He has, what, maybe 2 memorable catches, and 1 of them didn't even count?

Im not looking at Baldwin and going, "OMG, he doesn't have 1,000 yards? BUST!"

Im not looking at it like that at all. I understand our QB's and System suck. I understand that he will not have Big #'s and I understand that's not his fault.

Im not judging him on that.

However, i AM judging him on the targets that he HAS received.

And from the 83 targets that Bladwin has gotten, he has shown very little to lead me to believe that he's anything more than a Malcolm Floyd.

[DJ's left nut]

Im not dismissing the player. I have no idea why people are saying that. What I am saying is, so far, what he's displayed is nothing more than average at best when given a chance to make a play.

Has he shown an innate ability to consistently catch the ball at it's highest point?

Does he consistently locate the ball in the air and get himself in the best position to make the catch?

Is he a great route runner?

Does he have great speed?

When given the chance, what exactly has he shown to make you believe that he'll be anything more than a role player?

He doesn't 'consistently' do anything because he isn't 'consistently' asked to do anything. And hell, Bowe doesn't consistently do half the stuff you're talking about there.

WR is a rhythm position. It's not something you just fall out of bed and do. There's a reason most WRs in this league don't really break out until their 3rd year.

He has shown the ability to occasionally attack the ball at its highest point. He has shown the ability to occasionally do a nice job of locating the ball and going for it in the air. He's shown plus body control and plus speed (yes, he does have deep speed). No, he isn't a great route runner, but again - he's also largely a decoy.

You want to quit on the kid before he truly gets a chance to demonstrate anything. Yes, he's shown flashes of incredible ability. He's made a couple of spectacular catches, he's also damn near made a handful more, though admittedly he didn't finish them. Then again, he's still young and has plenty of room to learn.

Pest is right - Baldwin's production is very similar to Roddy White's when he was saddled with a scattershot QB. Once he got a legitimate passer delivering him the ball, he became a stud.

Yes, he shows flashes of being more than a 'meh' player.

[ModSocks]

Some of you ****ers are not going to be able to handle drafting a QB in the 1st round.

:rolleyes:

You can tell if a player has it or not. Isn't that why everyone is so excited about Geno Smith?

You can sit here and say, "oh but Geno hasn't produced against good teams"....sure....someone could say that. But even in those loses, the player has shown an ability to make a play.

In a players early years, that's all that we ask, is it not?

Baldwin has yet to show that.

If we draft Geno and he comes out and Gabbert's it up, you're damn right i'll show little patience.

[Lzen]

Given our QB situation there is no possible way to evaluate the WRs on this team.

/thread

:thumb:

[DJ's left nut]

Some of you fuckers are not going to be able to handle drafting a QB in the 1st round.

Wait.

So if we draft Matt Barkley and do nothing but have him throw deep routes for 2 seasons, we shouldn't just assume he blows? We shouldn't take a look at his skills and think "hey wait, maybe he's better suited being used in a WCO rather than the Matt Stafford chuck and duck approach..."

Geno Smith had better be a goddamn stud by week 8, and he'd better do it regardless of what is asked for him. If not, God help him.

[beach tribe]

hes so good he only plays 15 snaps.

The coaching staff is Garbage, the QBs are Garbage, what do you expect him to do?
The fact that he plays 15 snaps means JACK to me with these clowns in charge.
Just like I said in the Breaston Thread, it's impossible to know what these guys are really capable of.

[The Franchise]

I'm honestly surprised that Baldwin isn't bitching about his snap count yet.....but then it wouldn't matter because everyone would label him a cancer and a primadonna.

[ModSocks]

He doesn't 'consistently' do anything because he isn't 'consistently' asked to do anything. And hell, Bowe doesn't consistently do half the stuff you're talking about there.

WR is a rhythm position. It's not something you just fall out of bed and do. There's a reason most WRs in this league don't really break out until their 3rd year.

He has shown the ability to occasionally attack the ball at its highest point. He has shown the ability to occasionally do a nice job of locating the ball and going for it in the air. He's shown plus body control and plus speed (yes, he does have deep speed). No, he isn't a great route runner, but again - he's also largely a decoy.

You want to quit on the kid before he truly gets a chance to demonstrate anything. Yes, he's shown flashes of incredible ability. He's made a couple of spectacular catches, he's also damn near made a handful more, though admittedly he didn't finish them. Then again, he's still young and has plenty of room to learn.

Pest is right - Baldwin's production is very similar to Roddy White's when he was saddled with a scattershot QB. Once he got a legitimate passer delivering him the ball, he became a stud.

Yes, he shows flashes of being more than a 'meh' player.

I guess what we define as "shown me enough" isn't the same.

I'm not quitting on him. I don't want him gone. I just don't think he'll be anything better than a role player because he hasn't shown enough playmaking ability.

[Hammock Parties]

Baldwin was playing 45 snaps a game a month ago.

Coaching staff realized he sucks.

[ModSocks]

Wait.

So if we draft Matt Barkley and do nothing but have him throw deep routes for 2 seasons, we shouldn't just assume he blows? We shouldn't take a look at his skills and think "hey wait, maybe he's better suited being used in a WCO rather than the Matt Stafford chuck and duck approach..."

Geno Smith had better be a goddamn stud by week 8, and he'd better do it regardless of what is asked for him. If not, God help him.

Yeah. Because that's what im saying..... :rolleyes:

[beach tribe]

:rolleyes:


Baldwin has yet to show that.




http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/bbeal29/baldwin.gif

[Hammock Parties]

Out jumping a 4th string CB isn't impressive.

I spooged as much as anyone over this guy but the fact he's literally done that only once says a lot.

[beach tribe]

Baldwin was playing 45 snaps a game a month ago.

Coaching staff realized he sucks.

:LOL:
What coaching staff?

[beach tribe]

Out jumping a 4th string CB isn't impressive.

I spooged as much as anyone over this guy but the fact he's literally done that only once says a lot.

Him and Geno gonna take niggas' lunch money.

[The Franchise]

Baldwin was playing 45 snaps a game a month ago.

Coaching staff realized he sucks.

You don't get it both ways. This is the same coaching staff that think Quinn and Cassel are viable QBs.

[Hammock Parties]

Well, in your favor they DID think McCluster was going to catch 90 balls.

So there's a smidge of hope for Baldween.

[BigMeatballDave]

Baldwin was playing 45 snaps a game a month ago.

Coaching staff realized he sucks.

Wait, now our incompetent coaching staff can identify talent?

[DaKCMan AP]

Out jumping a 4th string CB isn't impressive.

I spooged as much as anyone over this guy but the fact he's literally done that only once says a lot.

Your shtick isn't impressive.

[ModSocks]

The coaching staff is Garbage, the QBs are Garbage, what do you expect him to do?
The fact that he plays 15 snaps means JACK to me with these clowns in charge.
Just like I said in the Breaston Thread, it's impossible to know what these guys are really capable of.

Sometimes.....Only Sometimes though.....you have to hold the players responsible.

I agree, it is hard to know what these players are TRUELY capable of with this regime. Obviously, almost everyone of these players are under performing.

But time after time, when the ball is in the air and the WR can't adjust to it, is that the Coaches fault? The QB's fault? Or is it the fault of the player who has control of his own play?

I Think Baldwin can TRIPLE his production with a better QB.

Tripling his production makes him a 700 yard Receiver.

[suds79]

I think we can sum this thread up that up until this point?

Jon Baldwin - Massive bust.

Now luckily he has the chance to save his career with presumably a real QB next year. Really that's the story for all our WRs. That's a chance not many players get.

So we'll see but color me skeptical. Putting his chances of fulfilling his career expectations? 20%

[ModSocks]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/bbeal29/baldwin.gif

Sweet.

So you found 1 of the 2 memorable catches i was talking about earlier when noting his 83 targets.

[NJChiefsFan]

Baldwin was playing 45 snaps a game a month ago.

Coaching staff realized he sucks.

You shit on the staff more than anyone. You can't say the staff is a joke and then think that using them as evidence against a guy means anything. The coaches are idiots. Baldwin may not turn into anything but what Romeo and staff think of him isn't proof for or against him.

[beach tribe]

Sometimes.....Only Sometimes though.....you have to hold the players responsible.

I agree, it is hard to know what these players are TRUELY capable of with this regime. Obviously, almost everyone of these players are under performing.

But time after time, when the ball is in the air and the WR can't adjust to it, is that the Coaches fault? The QB's fault? Or is it the fault of the player who has control of his own play?

I Think Baldwin can TRIPLE his production with a better QB.

Tripling his production makes him a 700 yard Receiver.

I get what you're saying, and I agree.
He's been a complete disappointment.
He also has 1000 yard WR Talent. I wouldn't be shocked to see him blossom in his 3rd season with an actual NFL QB.

[Hammock Parties]

You shit on the staff more than anyone. You can't say the staff is a joke and then think that using them as evidence against a guy means anything. The coaches are idiots. Baldwin may not turn into anything but what Romeo and staff think of him isn't proof for or against him.

It's just another strike against him.

The coaching staff has tried everything with him.

Played him outside. Played him inside. Played him lots of snaps. Played him a few snaps. Pimped him in preseason. Ignored him for McCluster during the regular seasons. Benched him for Breaston. Started him in place of Breaston.

Common theme with him through all of that: SUCKING ASS.

[NJChiefsFan]

It's just another strike against him.

The coaching staff has tried everything with him.

Played him outside. Played him inside. Played him lots of snaps. Played him a few snaps. Pimped him in preseason. Ignored him for McCluster during the regular seasons. Benched him for Breaston. Started him in place of Breaston.

Common theme with him through all of that: SUCKING ASS.

A staff that you yourself says don't know what they are doing. No player is better than they were last year outside of Houston. There is a reason for that. Also a team that has jokes for QB, something else you have championed.

[Titty Meat]

Lmao 2 plays means he isn't a bust? This place has gone full.

[DBOSHO]

I agree.

He's had chances. The plays we expect him to make, he doesn't make. He has a lot of trouble adjusting to the ball in the air. How many times have we watched him slow down and then mis-time his jump?

It didn't take 2 seasons for Julio Jones or AJ Green to show the NFL how good they were. It was obvious since the pre-season.

I'm tired of making excuses for all these players as to why they aren't producing.

Good WR's can produce despite bad QB play. There is no excuse for Baldwin.

Who do those recievers have throwing to them again? Thanks in advance.

[DJ's left nut]

It's just another strike against him.

The coaching staff has tried everything with him.

Played him outside. Played him inside. Played him lots of snaps. Played him a few snaps. Pimped him in preseason. Ignored him for McCluster during the regular seasons. Benched him for Breaston. Started him in place of Breaston.

Common theme with him through all of that: SUCKING ASS.

No they haven't.

They haven't tried having him run deep routes where he's a primary read. Nor have they tried installing a QB that would even consider making him a secondary read.

They haven't done shit but handcuff the passing game to protect their prize QB and run an offense that force feeds passes short of the sticks to a 5'10'' welterweight.

[BigMeatballDave]

Lmao 2 plays means he isn't a bust? This place has gone full.

21 games with shitty QBs and coaching doesn't mean he is.

[DBOSHO]

So since breaston sees little time on the field and doesnt have catches, he sucks too right?

[AdumbGuy]

A staff that you yourself says don't know what they are doing. No player is better than they were last year outside of Houston. There is a reason for that. Also a team that has jokes for QB, something else you have championed.

The reason Roddy white and Michael Jenkins were considered horrible receivers in vick's last days as a falcon is that they dropped balls the few times the ball was thrown to them. That changed almost instantly after Vick left once they were actually targeted consistently.

Baldwin's a young guy that gets thrown to like 2 times a game where it's usually questionable that the ball is catchable. It's like a shooter in basketball. Some guys can come in cold off the bench and light it up and others need to be involved in a game before they really start performing.

That said, i could easily see Baldwin being a bust. Poor bastard does have that Pioli stink on him now. Like a rookie qb on a team with a shitty o-line, he might never recover and be forever cassholed.

[Hammock Parties]

So since breaston sees little time on the field and doesnt have catches, he sucks too right?

The whole logic of bashing Baldwin is that he's never done shit in the league.

Breaston has.

[DBOSHO]

Lmao 2 plays means he isn't a bust? This place has gone full.

Im not quite sure you can label anyone as retarded when you want to call a 2nd year player who missed half his rookie season and has brady quinn and matt cassel throwing to him a bust already.

[htismaqe]

No they haven't.

They haven't tried having him run deep routes where he's a primary read. Nor have they tried installing a QB that would even consider making him a secondary read.

They haven't done shit but handcuff the passing game to protect their prize QB and run an offense that force feeds passes short of the sticks to a 5'10'' welterweight.

I agree with this.

[The Franchise]

FFS.....they don't even use him in the red zone.....where you could just toss it up to him and let him use his size advantage.

[htismaqe]

The whole logic of bashing Baldwin is that he's never done shit in the league.

Unproven <> bust

[htismaqe]

FFS.....they don't even use him in the red zone.....where you could just toss it up to him and let him use his size advantage.

We have him and Bowe and yet we NEVER use the fade. :rolleyes:

[beach tribe]

The whole logic of bashing Baldwin is that he's never done shit in the league.

Breaston has.

But like I said in the Breaston thread, if Breaston hadn't had the chance to play with an actual NFL QB before he got here, he would not have one supporter here.
Based solely off of what Breaston has done with the only QBs Baldwin has ever known people here would label him complete and utter trash.
Luckily we got a chance to see what he is capable of before he got here.
Baldwin didn't get that chance. Hopefully he will next season.

[DJ's left nut]

We have him and Bowe and yet we NEVER use the fade. :rolleyes:

Slow down, turbo.

Is there anyone on this roster you'd want throwing a fade route? Jesus, every last one of them would either be out of bounds or shortarmed into a pick-6.

Not throwing a fade with this personnel is the one thing I can actually get behind. That's an insanely hard throw, it works about 20% of the time even with good talent and frankly it makes less sense for guys with Bowe/Baldwin's size and speed than a well timed out route would make, especially with a nice pass-catching RB that could keep the LBs honest to prevent them from jumping those routes.

[beach tribe]

Im not quite sure you can label anyone as retarded when you want to call a 2nd year player who missed half his rookie season and has brady quinn and matt cassel throwing to him a bust already.

They don't call it going full Billay for nothing.

[BigMeatballDave]

We have him and Bowe and yet we NEVER use the fade. :rolleyes:

Because our retarded QBs can't execute the throw effectively.

[Hammock Parties]

Sorry but Baldwin has had plenty of chances this year (384 snaps already with 5 games left. He had 404 snaps last year)

Next year he needs 50 catches, 750 yards and 5 TD. MINIMUM.

[AdumbGuy]

We have him and Bowe and yet we NEVER use the fade. :rolleyes:

and a solid running game and never use the playaction pass. The sad thing is Baldwin is probably perfect for the inaccurate as hell Cassel as he could just throw it up and let baldwin fight for it instead of hitting him in stride accurately.

[htismaqe]

Is there anyone on this roster you'd want throwing a fade route? Jesus, every last one of them would either be out of bounds or shortarmed into a pick-6.

That was my point.

[Hammock Parties]

I'll say this much: we've probably been spoiled rotten by Dwayne Bowe and that's why we're so hard on Baldwin.

[AdumbGuy]

Slow down, turbo.

Is there anyone on this roster you'd want throwing a fade route? Jesus, every last one of them would either be out of bounds or shortarmed into a pick-6.

Not throwing a fade with this personnel is the one thing I can actually get behind. That's an insanely hard throw, it works about 20% of the time even with good talent and frankly it makes less sense for guys with Bowe/Baldwin's size and speed than a well timed out route would make, especially with a nice pass-catching RB that could keep the LBs honest to
prevent them from jumping those routes.

Maybe, but it's not like we score anyway. It would just be a different way for them to not score. Just like I don't think Stanzi wins us any games, but I'd still like to see that different way of losing at this point.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

FYI that doesn't really prove crap. He got open twice because the defense basically left him open.

Still think he's shit but it'd be nice if the QB threw to him when the defense forgot about him like that.


How do you think Baldwin would be performing if he was in Greenbay or Denver or Atlanta or NO ?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

But like I said in the Breaston thread, if Breaston hadn't had the chance to play with an actual NFL QB before he got here, he would not have one supporter here.
Based solely off of what Breaston has done with the only QBs Baldwin has ever known people here would label him complete and utter trash.
Luckily we got a chance to see what he is capable of before he got here.
Baldwin didn't get that chance. Hopefully he will next season.

Exactly !

[ThaVirus]

Watching that shit makes me sick...

But hopeful at the same time. The new stud we draft this April will have plenty of chances to make plays in the passing game. Then once we start making these types of plays it will take tremendous pressure off our already-pretty-good running game. It will be doubly effective.

Can't wait to see what this team looks like in a couple years!

[Marty Mac Ver 2.0]

good read

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/30/baldwins-absence-from-chiefs-offense-baffles

[BossChief]

I really hope we draft Geno.

It is so draining to read through thread after thread of picking the guys apart that are hamstrung with such a crappy set of qbs.

It's close to impossible to evaluate some of these guys.

[saphojunkie]

It's fine to be disappointed that Baldwin hasn't produced more to this point. But to say he's a bust, or that he sucks, or that he will never produce at a high level, ALL THE WHILE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT HIS QUARTERBACKS ARE DOGSHIT AND HIS OC IS A GIANT ABORTED FETUS is just ****ing stupid.

If you are saying this, then congratulations! You're ****ing stupid.

[unlurking]

good read

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/30/baldwins-absence-from-chiefs-offense-baffles

“We all communicate the same — Matt and Brady — we always talk the same,” Baldwin said. “If either one of those guys are starting, we just always communicate with each other. They both prepare the same way, so it really doesn’t make a difference.”

Translation: It doesn't matter who they start, they both suck.

[dj56dt58]

The problem is that we have these big posession receivers and qbs who are coached not to take a risk by throwing up a jumpball for them. If the primary read is covered, they are coached to check down. They can't even hit their checkdowns in stride, so it is completely fruitless. It is amazing how good quarterbacking and coaching will instantly change this team. The oline will look better, the receivers better, and the running game will open up tremendously.

This x10000