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View Full Version : Chiefs Congrats Chiefs fans, Andy Reid is your new coach. Here's what to expect....


DaWolf
01-04-2013, 02:09 PM
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/1/4/3836176/so-youve-hired-andy-reid-a-guide-to-big-red

A guide to Andy Reid. Pretty good read...

Having said all that, here's what the philosophy boil down to. Throwing is the answer to your problems. I guarantee you'll hear Andy say this in the next year, "keep firing." That's his philosophy. If the pass is not working, you don't give up... you keep firing.

You pass early to get a lead so you can run later to keep it. If you don't get a lead or you fall behind... you keep firing.

And while this may sound bad, let's not forget the facts. Andy's offenses have scored a lot of points. They were 8th in ppg even last year (2011). They were 3rd in 2010. 5th in 2009. 6th in 2008 and so on. Situationally, you will question whether his philosophy makes sense. I certainly do... But when you step back and look at the big picture, they score points.

WhitiE
01-04-2013, 02:20 PM
Ty

BWillie
01-04-2013, 02:20 PM
I want to hear what Jamaal Charles thinks of this malarkey.

gblowfish
01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
Jon Baldwin just peed his pants.

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 02:23 PM
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/1/4/3836176/so-youve-hired-andy-reid-a-guide-to-big-red

Congrats Chiefs fans, Andy Reid is your new coach. Here's what to expect.

Earlier this week, I did a Q&A with Arrowhead Pride where I spent a lot of time talking about where things went wrong with Reid in recent years. I'm not going to do that here. So if you're interested in hearing about that, definitely go check out the previous piece. (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/2/3828200/andy-reid-kansas-city-chiefs-eagles)

What I want to do here is explain more about Reid's methodology and how he views the game.

First and foremost Reid sees the NFL through the prism of the pass. He believes it's a passing league and that success comes from throwing on offense and stopping the throw on defense. When you look at the game through Reid's eyes, you can understand where he puts his emphasis.

Personnel - Defense

How do you go about stopping the pass on defense? You rush the passer and you play coverage. So it stands to reason that Reid invests his defensive resources on pass rushing defensive ends and good corners. If you look at some of Andy Reid's biggest free agency expenditures, they're almost all in these categories. He spent mega bucks to go get Asante Samuel & Nnamdi Asomugha, traded for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and spent high picks on Lito Sheppard & Sheldon Brown. He's also spent big money on free agent pass rushers like Jevon Kearse, Jason Babin and spent first round picks on guys like Jerome McDougle and Brandon Graham.

Don't expect a lot of investment in LBs and safeties. The Chiefs are lucky in that they already have a good safety in Eric Berry, much like the Eagles were lucky to already have a safety named Brian Dawkins before Reid arrived. The only safety of note Reid has been able to find himself was Quintin Mikell who he got lucky with as an undrafted free agent. The LBs have been a revolving door for nearly Reid's entire tenure. Virtually no top picks have been used on LBs.

Personnel - Offense

On offense, it's not quite as obvious but there are a few Reid hallmarks. First and foremost is the offensive line, because you've obviously got to protect the passer if throwing the ball is how you win. One of his very first moves when he came to Philadelphia was to jump into the free agent market and make Jon Runyan the highest paid offensive lineman of all time (at the time). He's since spent a pair of first round picks on the line, as well as traded a first round pick for Jason Peters and paid him big money too. So expect heavy investment on the line.

Obviously QB is the other major factor in building a passing game and Reid has certainly always invested there to some degree. Obviously drafting Donovan McNabb with his first ever draft pick meant he didn't have to invest all that much at the QB position in the years, but he has had some levels of success stocking the team with young arms. None of these guys have ended up being particularly good QBs, but he has had some success with them and turned them into value later. AJ Feeley had a decent 6 game stretch here once and Andy turned that into a 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb played only a couple games, but was flipped for a 2nd rounder and DRC.

I would bet a lot of money on whichever guy Andy uses your #1 pick on to be an offensive tackle or a QB.

As for WRs, Andy has always had a complicated history. His first probably 4 years here were just a parade of so-so guys, which was baffling for a guy that called as many passes as he did. But if you look back at the overall body of work, it does seem like he has tried to stock the team with good WRs, to varying degrees of success. Obviously the most notorious move was the trade for Terrell Owens, which worked out spectacularly for one year and spectacular disaster the next. He spent a first round pick on Freddie Mitchell, who was a bust, and one on Jeremy Maclin, who is hardly dominant but a good player. He spent second rounders on Todd Pinkston, bust, & DeSean Jackson, hit.

So his record of success with WRs is spotty and his desire to find quality ones is somewhat suspect given that he runs a pass first offense.

As for running backs, Andy has never invested a top pick or big free agent money in the position. And why would he if he sees the game through the prism of the pass? Despite that, he's brought in some damn good RBs in time here. He picked Correll Buckhalter in the 4th round of the 2001 draft, Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round of the 2002 draft and LeSean McCoy in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. So he's really always had good backs, despite never spending big to get them.

Playcalling - Defense

I remind you that he sees the game through the prism of the pass. So on defense, everything is predicated on getting to the quarterback. In the Jim Johnson era, that was accomplished through constant blitzing. Johnson was a master of the blitz and not only knew when to call them, but excelled in hiding where they were coming from and confusing QBs.

After Jim Johnson passed away, one of his protoges, Sean McDermott, took over and tried to keep up the blitzing but never showed the same kind of nuance Johnson had. As a result, the Eagles were burned on blitzes through the air and on the ground time and time again. Reid or McDermott had no plan B.

After McDermott Reid hired Jim Washburn to bring his "wide 9" to the Eagles defensive line. He then reportedly offered the coordinator's job to Dick Jauron, who turned it down because he didn't want to work with the wide 9. (Perhaps hiring a position coach that would dictate what the defense did before the coordinator was even hired was a mistake in hindsight?) He then tried to pry Todd Bowles away from Miami, but they refused to give him permission. Eventually, he settled on offensive line coach Juan Castillo as his defensive coordinator.

Things were really a mess from there on and took Reid's view of defense to it's scary conclusion. He had big money corners in place (Samuel, then Asomugha), he had good pass rushers in Babin & Trent Cole and he had a scheme that let them loose after the QB on every play. Only it didn't work. Time and time again teams would run in the huge gaps created by the wide 9 and not filled by the group of undrafted free agents or whoever else happened to called on to play LB that week (I'm not kidding about that either, there was that much turnover). Or they would just ride the wide rushers out of the play and burn them with the pass.

But again, with Jim Johnson, the philosophy worked.

Playcalling - Offense

On offense, obviously be prepared for a lot more passing than you are used to. Andy likes to throw. Part of the core west coast offense philosophy is that short passes are basically just like runs. So while he may not hand it off 20 times a game to a back, he'll say that you threw some screens or quick slants and got the same effect. Is that true? That's for you to judge. RBs do catch a lot of passes in his offense though, so be prepared for Jamaal Charles to reasonably get 70+ targets next year. And he better be ready to pass block. If you're a RB in Reid's offense and you can't pass block and catch passes, you don't play.

Andy hasn't stuck to all of the core WCO principles. His offense has before more vertical than more traditional west coast schemes and he's always favored speed in WRs over size. He wants to hit guys on shorts slants and let them run with the ball or he wants to hit them over the top of the defenses. The big, move the chains, red zone type of WR has just never been what he's looked for.

Gimmicks. Get ready for them. I don't quite know what it is with Andy, but he's always wanted to try to be trickier than he really is and if he has success with a trick once, he'll use it time and time again. Two cases in point. The flea flicker. This worked like one time here and he's since used more than maybe every other team combined. It may have only worked that first time.

End arounds are another. There is not an Eagles fan alive when that doesn't groan when they see the Eagles running an end around motion. They do it so often that no defense is ever surprised or caught off guard. They did it so often that Reid's solution at one point became to run fake end around motions. Of course, then you're just slowing down the whole play and basically taking one of wideouts out of it. He should really just lose the end around from the playbook. Seriously Clark Hunt, if the ink isn't dry yet, write this on the margins of the contract.

Having said all that, here's what the philosophy boil down to. Throwing is the answer to your problems. I guarantee you'll hear Andy say this in the next year, "keep firing." That's his philosophy. If the pass is not working, you don't give up... you keep firing.

You pass early to get a lead so you can run later to keep it. If you don't get a lead or you fall behind... you keep firing.

And while this may sound bad, let's not forget the facts. Andy's offenses have scored a lot of points. They were 8th in ppg even last year (2011). They were 3rd in 2010. 5th in 2009. 6th in 2008 and so on. Situationally, you will question whether his philosophy makes sense. I certainly do... But when you step back and look at the big picture, they score points.

Other stuff

Andy is a player's coach. You'll almost never hear him call a player out and he'll always take the blame on himself. He shows very little emotion on the sidelines or in the press room. He's a nice guy with a jovial personality, but for the most part his press conferences will the be the most boring thing you hear in a given week.

That's how he deals with the media. He bores them to death. I'm not joking. He doesn't fight with them, he doesn't take their bait, he doesn't try to charm them or be their friend. He says what he plans to say and then he just waits them out. How many questions can you ask and get "I'll have to look at the film" or "we'll have to work on that" as a response before you just give up?

Expect to move around on draft day, a lot. Andy doesn't like to sit still. Whether it's trading back to acquire more picks or moving up, he's very active on draft day.

Learn to love big men as top picks. Andy Reid has made 14 top picks. 9 have been offensive or defensive lineman.

Oh and on draft days, he wears giants Hawaiian shirts.

So there's Andy Reid, a guide. Best of luck and enjoy.

"Time's yours" will soon enter the KC lexicon.

chiefzilla1501
01-04-2013, 02:24 PM
I want to hear what Jamaal Charles thinks of this malarkey.

The thing people keep forgetting when they ask about Charles' role is that Andy Reid's RBs may not get a ton of rushing yardage, but they get a TON of all-purpose touches. Jamaal will be downright dangerous and can probably stay healthier -- he'll get a lot of screen passes where he gets to run in space.

KC Tattoo
01-04-2013, 02:26 PM
I want to hear what Jamaal Charles thinks of this malarkey.

Charles has good hands.

petegz28
01-04-2013, 02:26 PM
arlier this week, I did a Q&A with Arrowhead Pride where I spent a lot of time talking about where things went wrong with Reid in recent years. I'm not going to do that here. So if you're interested in hearing about that, definitely go check out the previous piece.

What I want to do here is explain more about Reid's methodology and how he views the game.

First and foremost Reid sees the NFL through the prism of the pass. He believes it's a passing league and that success comes from throwing on offense and stopping the throw on defense. When you look at the game through Reid's eyes, you can understand where he puts his emphasis.

Personnel - Defense

How do you go about stopping the pass on defense? You rush the passer and you play coverage. So it stands to reason that Reid invests his defensive resources on pass rushing defensive ends and good corners. If you look at some of Andy Reid's biggest free agency expenditures, they're almost all in these categories. He spent mega bucks to go get Asante Samuel & Nnamdi Asomugha, traded for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and spent first round picks on Lito Sheppard & Sheldon Brown. He's also spent big money on free agent pass rushers like Jevon Kearse, Jason Babin and spent first round picks on guys like Jerome McDougle and Brandon Graham.

Don't expect a lot of investment in LBs and safeties. The Chiefs are lucky in that they already have a good safety in Eric Berry, much like the Eagles were lucky to already have a safety named Brian Dawkins before Reid arrived. The only safety of note Reid has been able to find himself was Quintin Mikell who he got lucky with as an undrafted free agent. The LBs have been a revolving door for nearly Reid's entire tenure.

Personnel - Offense

On offense, it's not quite as obvious but there are a few Reid hallmarks. First and foremost is the offensive line, because you've obviously got to protect the passer if throwing the ball is how you win. One of his very first moves when he came to Philadelphia was to jump into the free agent market and make Jon Runyan the highest paid offensive lineman of all time (at the time). He's since spent a pair of first round picks on the line, as well as traded a first round pick for Jason Peters and paid him big money too. So expect heavy investment on the line.

Howard Smith-USA TODAY Sports

Obviously QB is the other major factor in building a passing game and Reid has certainly always invested there to some degree. Obviously drafting Donovan McNabb with his first ever draft pick meant he didn't have to invest all that much at the QB position in the years, but he has had some levels of success stocking the team with young arms. None of these guys have ended up being particularly good QBs, but he has had some success with them and turned them into value later. AJ Feeley had a decent 6 game stretch here once and Andy turned that into a 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb played only a couple games, but was flipped for a 2nd rounder and DRC.

I would bet a lot of money on whichever guy Andy uses your #1 pick on to be an offensive tackle or a QB.

As for WRs, Andy has always had a complicated history. His first probably 4 years here were just a parade of so-so guys, which was baffling for a guy that called as many passes as he did. But if you look back at the overall body of work, it does seem like he has tried to stock the team with good WRs, to varying degrees of success. Obviously the most notorious move was the trade for Terrell Owens, which worked out spectacularly for one year and spectacular disaster the next. He spent a first round pick on Freddie Mitchell, who was a bust, and one on Jeremy Maclin, who is hardly dominant but a good player. He spent second rounders on Todd Pinkston, bust, & DeSean Jackson, hit.

So his record of success with WRs is spotty and his desire to find quality ones is somewhat suspect given that he runs a pass first offense.

As for running backs, Andy has never invested a top pick or big free agent money in the position. And why would he if he sees the game through the prism of the pass? Despite that, he's brought in some damn good RBs in time here. He picked Correll Buckhalter in the 4th round of the 2001 draft, Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round of the 2002 draft and LeSean McCoy in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. So he's really always had good backs, despite never spending big to get them.

Playcalling - Defense


I remind you that he sees the game through the prism of the pass. So on defense, everything is predicated on getting to the quarterback. In the Jim Johnson era, that was accomplished through constant blitzing. Johnson was a master of the blitz and not only knew when to call them, but excelled in hiding where they were coming from and confusing QBs.

After Jim Johnson passed away, one of his protoges, Sean McDermott, took over and tried to keep up the blitzing but never showed the same kind of nuance Johnson had. As a result, the Eagles were burned on blitzes through the air and on the ground time and time again. Reid or McDermott had no plan B.

After McDermott Reid hired Jim Washburn to bring his "wide 9" to the Eagles defensive line. He then reportedly offered the coordinator's job to Dick Jauron, who turned it down because he didn't want to work with the wide 9. (Perhaps hiring a position coach that would dictate what the defense did before the coordinator was even hired was a mistake in hindsight?) He then tried to pry Todd Bowles away from Miami, but they refused to give him permission. Eventually, he settled on offensive line coach Juan Castillo as his defensive coordinator.

Things were really a mess from there on and took Reid's view of defense to it's scary conclusion. He had big money corners in place (Samuel, then Asomugha), he had good pass rushers in Babin & Trent Cole and he had a scheme that let them loose after the QB on every play. Only it didn't work. Time and time again teams would run in the huge gaps created by the wide 9 and not filled by the group of undrafted free agents or whoever else happened to called on to play LB that week (I'm not kidding about that either, there was that much turnover). Or they would just ride the wide rushers out of the play and burn them with the pass.

But again, with Jim Johnson, the philosophy worked.

Howard Smith-USA TODAY Sports

Playcalling - Offense

On offense, obviously be prepared for a lot more passing than you are used to. Andy likes to throw. Part of the core west coast offense philosophy is that short passes are basically just like runs. So while he may not hand it off 20 times a game to a back, he'll say that you threw some screens or quick slants and got the same effect. Is that true? That's for you to judge. RBs do catch a lot of passes in his offense though, so be prepared for Jamaal Charles to reasonably get 70+ targets next year. And he better be ready to pass block. If you're a RB in Reid's offense and you can't pass block and catch passes, you don't play.

Andy hasn't stuck to all of the core WCO principles. His offense has before more vertical than more traditional west coast schemes and he's always favored speed in WRs over size. He wants to hit guys on shorts slants and let them run with the ball or he wants to hit them over the top of the defenses. The big, move the chains, red zone type of WR has just never been what he's looked for.

Gimmicks. Get ready for them. I don't quite know what it is with Andy, but he's always wanted to try to be trickier than he really is and if he has success with a trick once, he'll use it time and time again. Two cases in point. The flea flicker. This worked like one time here and he's since used more than maybe every other team combined. It may have only worked that first time.

End arounds are another. There is not an Eagles fan alive when that doesn't groan when they see the Eagles running an end around motion. They do it so often that no defense is ever surprised or caught off guard. They did it so often that Reid's solution at one point became to run fake end around motions. Of course, then you're just slowing down the whole play and basically taking one of wideouts out of it. He should really just lose the end around from the playbook. Seriously Clark Hunt, if the ink isn't dry yet, write this on the margins of the contract.

Having said all that, here's what the philosophy boil down to. Throwing is the answer to your problems. I guarantee you'll hear Andy say this in the next year, "keep firing." That's his philosophy. If the pass is not working, you don't give up... you keep firing.

You pass early to get a lead so you can run later to keep it. If you don't get a lead or you fall behind... you keep firing.

And while this may sound bad, let's not forget the facts. Andy's offenses have scored a lot of points. They were 8th in ppg even last year (2011). They were 3rd in 2010. 5th in 2009. 6th in 2008 and so on. Situationally, you will question whether his philosophy makes sense. I certainly do... But when you step back and look at the big picture, they score points.

Other stuff

Andy is a player's coach. You'll almost never hear him call a player out and he'll always take the blame on himself. He shows very little emotion on the sidelines or in the press room. He's a nice guy with a jovial personality, but for the most part his press conferences will the be the most boring thing you hear in a given week.

That's how he deals with the media. He bores them to death. I'm not joking. He doesn't fight with them, he doesn't take their bait, he doesn't try to charm them or be their friend. He says what he plans to say and then he just waits them out. How many questions can you ask and get "I'll have to look at the film" or "we'll have to work on that" as a response before you just give up?

Expect to move around on draft day, a lot. Andy doesn't like to sit still. Whether it's trading back to acquire more picks or moving up, he's very active on draft day.

Learn to love big men as top picks. Andy Reid has made 14 top picks. 9 have been offensive or defensive lineman.

Oh and on draft days, he wears giants Hawaiian shirts.

So there's Andy Reid, a guide. Best of luck and enjoy.

"Time's yours" will soon enter the KC lexicon.

HemiEd
01-04-2013, 02:26 PM
Oh nooze, the return of the "Circus Offense!"

You have to remember though, the offense needs to help out the defense!

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
Ohhhhhhhh fuck you. :D

I at least put all of my shit in the fucking OP.

KC Tattoo
01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
Hope this make D Bowe want to stay.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
I'd rather keep firing than run, run, run, maybe a 1st down, run, horribly inaccurate pass after holding penalty, draw, punt, terrible defense.

Thig Lyfe
01-04-2013, 02:28 PM
So you've Q'd a Q

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 02:28 PM
So you've Q'd a Q

I most definitely Q'd a Q.


What do I do now?

Thig Lyfe
01-04-2013, 02:29 PM
I most definitely Q'd a Q.


What do I do now?

SeppuQ

RunKC
01-04-2013, 02:29 PM
Finally someone who will put a HUGE emphasis on QB play and pass rushing from the DL.

I fucking love this hire.

DaKCMan AP
01-04-2013, 02:29 PM
I most definitely Q'd a Q.


What do I do now?

Backup and take a P-P.

KCSPORTSNUT
01-04-2013, 02:30 PM
And the down side to this is what? We just went through spongehead fatpants saying i dont know for a year.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 02:37 PM
He believes it's a passing league and that success comes from throwing on offense and stopping the throw on defense.

I don't even need to read the rest. I'm sold.

Thig Lyfe
01-04-2013, 02:37 PM
Don't expect a lot of investment in LBs and safeties. The Chiefs are lucky in that they already have a good safety in Eric Berry, much like the Eagles were lucky to already have a safety named Brian Dawkins before Reid arrived. The only safety of note Reid has been able to find himself was Quintin Mikell who he got lucky with as an undrafted free agent. The LBs have been a revolving door for nearly Reid's entire tenure.


So he's definitely not drafting T'eo, then. Good to know.

Actually, pretty amazing that Reid, who doesn't focus on LBs, is joining a team whose biggest strength is its LB corp. Reid can let Houston, DJ, and Hali do their thangs while he focuses on getting a top CB opposite Flowers and some real pass rushers on the DL.

ChiefMojo
01-04-2013, 02:38 PM
Trust me we have seen many different styles of interviews from our coaches. Dating back to Vermeil he was a crier as Philly fans know who showed his emotions on his sleeves. Herm was the master of the press... would say anything to hear himself talk and make a wonderful sound bit. Haley just mumbled his way through a PC, trying to say little as possible. Then of course we had RAC, the master of clueless banter.

KC Tattoo
01-04-2013, 02:38 PM
NO more Omaha Omaha/ too fat

Hammock Parties
01-04-2013, 02:40 PM
Loooove is lovelier.....

Fire Me Boy!
01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
Trust me we have seen many different styles of interviews from our coaches. Dating back to Vermeil he was a crier as Philly fans know who showed his emotions on his sleeves. Herm was the master of the press... would say anything to hear himself talk and make a wonderful sound bit. Haley just mumbled his way through a PC, trying to say little as possible. Then of course we had RAC, the master of clueless banter.

:eek:

Are you suggesting Romeo Crennel masterbantered in front of the press?

O.city
01-04-2013, 02:42 PM
I don't even need to read the rest. I'm sold.

Amazing right? Who knew?


It's embarrassing how bad the last coaching staff has been.

MahiMike
01-04-2013, 02:42 PM
Cool, thanks for posting.

BigChiefFan
01-04-2013, 02:43 PM
I love this hire. Fuck yeah.

ChiTown
01-04-2013, 02:44 PM
I don't even need to read the rest. I'm sold.

That's funny, that's exactly my thoughts as well. We were dealing with an idiot(s) who believed you could survive with marginal to sub marginal qb play.

Not going to happen.

Easy 6
01-04-2013, 02:44 PM
I'd never really considered it, but he's right about Reid not being big on big receivers, other than Owens.

Wonder what that could possibly mean for Bowe, and Baldwin for that matter?

Its easy to see Baldwin on his way out, but Bowe might be kept around for a while.

RealSNR
01-04-2013, 02:48 PM
I most definitely Q'd a Q.


What do I do now?

You Q'd a Q?

qq

Hammock Parties
01-04-2013, 02:49 PM
KEEP FIRING, ASSHOLES

Hammock Parties
01-04-2013, 02:53 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/10Li4V1JH70?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 02:58 PM
I want to hear what Jamaal Charles thinks of this malarkey.

People really need to get over this...

Jamaal Charles vs. LeSean McCoy


Year Charles Rush Charles Rec McCoy Rush McCoy Rec
2008 67 27 NA NA
2009 190 40 155 40
2010 230 45 207 78
2011 12 5 273 48
2012 285 35 200 54

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:01 PM
I'd never really considered it, but he's right about Reid not being big on big receivers, other than Owens.

Wonder what that could possibly mean for Bowe, and Baldwin for that matter?

Its easy to see Baldwin on his way out, but Bowe might be kept around for a while.

Wrong.

How is Reid not big on receivers when he...signed T.O. to a huge contract, traded for Anquan only to have it all fall apart on some technicality, drafted DeSean Jackson either in the last 1st roudn or early 2nd, and then drafted Maclin in the 1st round. Not to mention drafting Freddie (FredEx) Mitchell in the 1st round as well.

He had shitty receivers for a few years in Philadelphia until he finally got tired of Todd Pinkston and decided to throw every possible resource whether it be trade, free agency or draft to find good receivers for McNabb.

HemiEd
01-04-2013, 03:02 PM
Trust me we have seen many different styles of interviews from our coaches. Dating back to Vermeil he was a crier as Philly fans know who showed his emotions on his sleeves. Herm was the master of the press... would say anything to hear himself talk and make a wonderful sound bit. Haley just mumbled his way through a PC, trying to say little as possible. Then of course we had RAC, the master of clueless banter.
Don't forget the blaming everyone else for things going badly and he took the credit for anything that went well.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:02 PM
If he wants to spend a draft pick on Maclin trade wise, I'd be fine wtih it.

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 03:03 PM
Wrong.

How is Reid not big on receivers when he...signed T.O. to a huge contract, traded for Anquan only to have it all fall apart on some technicality, drafted DeSean Jackson either in the last 1st roudn or early 2nd, and then drafted Maclin in the 1st round. Not to mention drafting Freddie (FredEx) Mitchell in the 1st round as well.

He had shitty receivers for a few years in Philadelphia until he finally got tired of Todd Pinkston and decided to throw every possible resource whether it be trade, free agency or draft to find good receivers for McNabb.

I think he'll be more than happy with the receiving group that he has. Bowe will get re-signed. Baldwin still has potential (I think). Breaston is a damn good slot receiver and McCluster is a good 4th WR.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:03 PM
I'd take Maclin in a heart beat but I'm not sure the Eagles would want to trade him. I don't know why they'd want to trade him, anyways...he's not a cancer, he can't stay healthy so they won't get anything higher than a 3rd for him. Might as well keep him, he's uber talented.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:04 PM
I'd take Maclin in a heart beat but I'm not sure the Eagles would want to trade him. I don't know why they'd want to trade him, anyways...he's not a cancer, he can't stay healthy so they won't get anything higher than a 3rd for him. Might as well keep him, he's uber talented.

He's in the last year of his contract and it's reported that they don't intend to re sign him.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:04 PM
I think he'll be more than happy with the receiving group that he has. Bowe will get re-signed. Baldwin still has potential (I think). Breaston is a damn good slot receiver and McCluster is a good 4th WR.

I think Breaston blows and is a nothing. Same with McCluster but I wouldn't mind giving him ONE MORE TRY in an Andy Reid offense. I think Devon Wylie has potential and potentially is better than Dexter McCluster.

I agree about Bowe getting resigned and I'm ok with giving Baldwin ONE MORE YEAR to show us something but at this point I don't mind writing him off, either.

We can just pretend we took Houston in the first round and pretend Baldwin never existed.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:04 PM
I'd never really considered it, but he's right about Reid not being big on big receivers, other than Owens.

Wonder what that could possibly mean for Bowe, and Baldwin for that matter?

Its easy to see Baldwin on his way out, but Bowe might be kept around for a while.

Hank Baskett, Todd Pinkston, and Torrance Small were all 6'2" or taller.

ChiefMojo
01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
I want Bowe re-signed and get Maclin in the FA market. That saves us from having to draft one where it could go to other positions of need. Maclin would give us the speed receiver we are missing.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
He's in the last year of his contract and it's reported that they don't intend to re sign him.

Cool. Throw them a conditional 5th and yay for us.

Hammock Parties
01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
Breaston is a former 1,000-yard WR who had 61 catches his first year in KC...but he's "nothing."

Breaston will probably start next year and have 1,000 yards.

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
I'd love for us to go after Jared Cook though........that's if the Titans don't give him a new contract.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:06 PM
oh shit sorry Scott Free

I misread your post. I thought it said he's not big on receivers...missed the second big.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:07 PM
Breaston is a former 1,000-yard WR who had 61 catches his first year in KC...but he's "nothing."

Breaston will probably start next year and have 1,000 yards.

I don't see it. I just don't think he's the Steve Breaston of his rookie year. Think his knee injury made him damaged goods.

but cool, if he goes for 1000 yards than yay yay yay yay

I just think he's washed up.

FD
01-04-2013, 03:07 PM
Receivers are secondary to quarterbacks. Great QB's make it work whoever they are throwing to. Everything, really, is secondary to the QB, and Reid clearly gets that, which is why this is such a good hire.

Superturtle
01-04-2013, 03:07 PM
Bowe and Maclin, with Breaston in the slot and DMC being whatevadafuck DMC does. I have a feeling Reid is going to try his hand with DMC though.

Mr. Laz
01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Reid definitely has some weaknesses

doesn't run the ball enough
time clock management is suspect
not as good at the player personnel part as he is at coaching
doesn't seem to be able to take the 'next step' He isn't like marty shottenheimer but still

Garcia Bronco
01-04-2013, 03:09 PM
Lol...he's the Peoples Choice Coach/GM. When he fails...An-dy will...it's the fans fault. Point the finger at yourself.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:09 PM
Cool. Throw them a conditional 5th and yay for us.

I think it would probably take a 3 or better.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:09 PM
Meh. I'm indifferent about DMC. He's been handicapped with shitty QB's his entire career so maybe a good QB can make him effective...but he's still a midget and I still haven't seen anything other than a very rare occasional flash.

and he is a shit returner to boot

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
Reid definitely has some weaknesses

doesn't run the ball enough
time clock management is suspect
not as good at the player personnel part as he is at coaching
doesn't seem to be able to take the 'next step' He isn't like marty shottenheimer but still

Actually, it's been shown that he runs the ball quite enough. Common misconception.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
Meh. I'm indifferent about DMC. He's been handicapped with shitty QB's his entire career so maybe a good QB can make him effective...but he's still a midget and I still haven't seen anything other than a very rare occasional flash.

and he is a shit returner to boot

I actually like Wylie alot better.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
I think it would probably take a 3 or better.

why? He's no more valuable than Santonio Holmes. Difference being...Holmes was a cancer, Maclin is a health risk.

What did the Bears give for Marshall? Two 3rds? I doubt a WR in his last year of his contract that has a sketchy resume cluttered with missed games and health issues is worth much more than a conditional 5th...if he gets 1000 yards it can graduate to a 3rd. I'm ok with that.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:12 PM
why? He's no more valuable than Santonio Holmes. Difference being...Holmes was a cancer, Maclin is a health risk.

What did the Bears give for Marshall? Two 3rds? I doubt a WR in his last year of his contract that has a sketchy resume cluttered with missed games and health issues is worth much more than a conditional 5th...if he gets 1000 yards it can graduate to a 3rd. I'm ok with that.

He's also a former first rounder, who's only 24.

If he came for a fifth, fuck, I'd do that in a HB.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:12 PM
and I also think Jamaal Charles is a better Brian Westbrook than Brian Westbrook and it seems like Reid's best years were when Westbrook was an absolute beast...

I also think Scott left us with an offensive line chalked full of potential, which helps.

If he did two things right it was offensive line and the incredibly, ridiculous AMAZING team friendly contract he got Charles to ink.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
He's also a former first rounder, who's only 24.

If he came for a fifth, ****, I'd do that in a HB.

which is what everybody said about Santonio Holmes as well.

Me? Being the pessimist (and realist) I am about draft picks and 3rd round picks and lower...I'd do it for a 3rd in a heartbeat.

Worst case scenario? He gets injured again and doesn't pan out. At least he's a good locker room guy PLUS he's a local guy.

Mr. Laz
01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
Actually, it's been shown that he runs the ball quite enough. Common misconception.
He runs the ball very effectively ie YPC etc is not the same as enough

There is a certain effect of running the ball regardless of yards gain that leads to a more productive offense ... less QB hits,more ToP etc.

throwing the ball even though you need to burn clock etc

FD
01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
and I also think Jamaal Charles is a better Brian Westbrook than Brian Westbrook and it seems like Reid's best years were when Westbrook was an absolute beast...

I also think Scott left us with an offensive line chalked full of potential, which helps.

If he did two things right it was offensive line and the incredibly, ridiculous AMAZING team friendly contract he got Charles to ink.

Yep. And with Castillo the line should really be able to take a step up. He's one of the most underrated coaches out there since the defensive coordinator debacle.

BradBigglestein
01-04-2013, 03:14 PM
I'll hang around for a bit more. Good chatting with Chiefs fans.

If anyone has any questions about Reid, feel free to ask. I'm really happy for him and that he landed in a place where he got everything he wanted. This was a tough last calender year for him. Losing his son being obviously the worst of it.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:14 PM
and I also think Jamaal Charles is a better Brian Westbrook than Brian Westbrook and it seems like Reid's best years were when Westbrook was an absolute beast...

I also think Scott left us with an offensive line chalked full of potential, which helps.

If he did two things right it was offensive line and the incredibly, ridiculous AMAZING team friendly contract he got Charles to ink.

Yeah thats for sure.

I just really wanna get Albert and Bowe re signed.

You can fill some holes in the draft, but I actually like filling holes better with free agency.

You have to combine BPA with position of need in the draft, which is something I don't think Scott ever got down.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:15 PM
Lol...he's the Peoples Choice Coach/GM. When he fails...An-dy will...it's the fans fault. Point the finger at yourself.

Reverse mojo won't work. Our coach is better than yours. Good thing you got the Forehead.

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:15 PM
our #1 priority should be getting Bowe signed long term without using the tag...and then tagging Albert if necessary.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
doesn't run the ball enough

He averages a 55/45 pass/run split over his career. This idea that he doesn't run the ball enough is bogus.

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
I'll hang around for a bit more. Good chatting with Chiefs fans.

If anyone has any questions about Reid, feel free to ask. I'm really happy for him and that he landed in a place where he got everything he wanted. This was a tough last calender year for him. Losing his son being obviously the worst of it.

Stick around dude. Can never have too many football guys on the board.


And this is a great board for football talk.

Gravedigger
01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
WOW, he comes with Kung Fu grip, a super secret walrus layer, and 3 designer mustaches. COOL!!!!

Hootie
01-04-2013, 03:16 PM
BradBigglestein is already my vote for n00b of the year.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:17 PM
He runs the ball very effectively ie YPC etc is not the same as enough

There is a certain effect of running the ball regardless of yards gain that leads to a more productive offense ... less QB hits,more ToP etc.

throwing the ball even though you need to burn clock etc

Nobody said anything about YPC. Running the ball "enough" is all about attempts.

His splits are about 45% run over the length of his career.

That's PLENTY.

Mr. Laz
01-04-2013, 03:23 PM
Nobody said anything about YPC. Running the ball "enough" is all about attempts.

His splits are about 45% run over the length of his career.

That's PLENTY.not imo

at it's also about knowing WHEN to run it.


i've already said i like the hire but you are going to have Chiefs fans screaming 'just run the ball!!!' several times throughout Reid's tenure.

RunKC
01-04-2013, 03:26 PM
Here's what to expect:

Good QB play, an offense scoring a lot of points and a defense that gets pressure on the QB.

WTF else could we want? This is going to be AWESOME

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:26 PM
not imo

at it's also about knowing WHEN to run it.


i've already said i like the hire but you are going to have Chiefs fans screaming 'just run the ball!!!' several times throughout Reid's tenure.

In your opinion? It's a statistical fact.


He has ran the ball 45% of snaps in his career. And to that effect, he hasnt' been the primary playcaller.

BradBigglestein
01-04-2013, 03:30 PM
My favorite Andy Reid(non in-game) moment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8cVbY72JEI

formerdb
01-04-2013, 03:33 PM
In other words, Andy Reid SUCKS!!

HemiEd
01-04-2013, 03:35 PM
The more I think about the Reid hiring, the more excited I get about it.

I think the chances of retaining the talent on this team like Bowe and Albert has increased tremendously along with getting a QB.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:36 PM
not imo

at it's also about knowing WHEN to run it.


i've already said i like the hire but you are going to have Chiefs fans screaming 'just run the ball!!!' several times throughout Reid's tenure.

I'm sure they will - they idolize Marty Schottenheimer and pine for caveman football.

Andy Reid uses his primary back just as much as every other team in the league. What Andy Reid doesn't do is hand the ball off to Dexter McCluster on 3rd and 8 or run a toss sweep to Payton Hillis.

He values playmakers. He won't run the ball just to run the ball, that's just stupid.

Iowanian
01-04-2013, 03:38 PM
The fact that the walrus knows this is a passing league and that throwing the ball well and defending the pass well are key components is a major upgrade to the shit we've been fed for the past decade. DV had it half right.

ct
01-04-2013, 03:38 PM
and I also think Jamaal Charles is a better Brian Westbrook than Brian Westbrook and it seems like Reid's best years were when Westbrook was an absolute beast...

I also think Scott left us with an offensive line chalked full of potential, which helps.

If he did two things right it was offensive line and the incredibly, ridiculous AMAZING team friendly contract he got Charles to ink.

Jamaal and Westy and McCoy are different styles. Jamaal is more the full speed slasher type, whereas Westbrook and Mccoy are the jump step, stop on a dime and redirect type of runners.

All of them can be lethal out of the backfield in the 'extended' run game, and I believe THAT is what Reid truly wants from his RBs.

BlackHelicopters
01-04-2013, 03:39 PM
Good read.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:40 PM
The fact that the walrus knows this is a passing league and that throwing the ball well and defending the pass well are key components is a major upgrade to the shit we've been fed for the past decade. DV had it half right.

This.

We've been watching one of the most unbalanced, archaic offenses in NFL history.

I cannot believe people are wringing their hands because he might pass the ball too much.

ct
01-04-2013, 03:41 PM
I'm sure they will - they idolize Marty Schottenheimer and pine for caveman football.

Andy Reid uses his primary back just as much as every other team in the league. What Andy Reid doesn't do is hand the ball off to Dexter McCluster on 3rd and 8 or run a toss sweep to Payton Hillis.

He values playmakers. He won't run the ball just to run the ball, that's just stupid.

Sorry, believe you meant hand the ball to Shaun Draughn on 3rd and 8, while Jamaal watches helplessly on the sideline. Just helpin ya out there.

Imon Yourside
01-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Points? what are these points you speak of?

O.city
01-04-2013, 03:42 PM
I love the fact that he seems to "fit" into the midwestern style. Seems like a perfect fit, personality wise, in KC. Common man kinda thing.

Easy 6
01-04-2013, 03:50 PM
Hank Baskett, Todd Pinkston, and Torrance Small were all 6'2" or taller.

True, but as i recall they werent "swoll", just tall and slender, basket was the biggest of them at around 205-210 iirc.

Those guys are quite a bit different from the ripped 220-235 likes of Baldwin and Bowe.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 03:55 PM
True, but as i recall they werent "swoll", just tall and slender, basket was the biggest of them at around 205-210 iirc.

Those guys are quite a bit different from the ripped 220-235 likes of Baldwin and Bowe.

Baskett was 6'2" 220.

The Rick
01-04-2013, 03:57 PM
I love the fact that he seems to "fit" into the midwestern style. Seems like a perfect fit, personality wise, in KC. Common man kinda thing.
Yep, the more I think about it, the more I think it's going to be a great fit!

Lzen
01-04-2013, 03:58 PM
I don't see it. I just don't think he's the Steve Breaston of his rookie year. Think his knee injury made him damaged goods.

but cool, if he goes for 1000 yards than yay yay yay yay

I just think he's washed up.

IMO, NONE of KC's receivers can be fairly judged considering the garbage we've had at QB these past 2 years.

Raiderhader
01-04-2013, 04:01 PM
He runs the ball very effectively ie YPC etc is not the same as enough

There is a certain effect of running the ball regardless of yards gain that leads to a more productive offense ... less QB hits,more ToP etc.

throwing the ball even though you need to burn clock etc

I used to yell this at the tv during the Marty years; the best way to burn up the clock is by picking up first downs. He can throw all he wants.

Raiderhader
01-04-2013, 04:02 PM
IMO, NONE of KC's receivers can be fairly judged considering the garbage we've had at QB these past 2 years.

Quoted for truth.

Hammock Parties
01-04-2013, 04:05 PM
This.

We've been watching one of the most unbalanced, archaic offenses in NFL history.

I cannot believe people are wringing their hands because he might pass the ball too much.

Oh no it risky

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 04:07 PM
Take a look at it this way:

Jamaal Charles had 285 carries this season.

In 2011, LeSean had a similar season in which he carried the ball 273 times.

The difference in their running games outside of those 2?

The 2012 Chiefs also had Hillis and Draughan carry the ball 144 times for a whopping 3.75 YPC. The team ran the ball 500 times.

The 2011 Eagles next 2 leading rushers were Mike Vick and Ronnie Brown with 118 carries together and 5.5 yards per carry. They ran the ball 450 times.

Basically, the 50 extra carries the Chiefs had were ALL with backups and they were less productive to the tune of 2 whole yards per carry.

Efficiency is MUCH better than banging your head against the wall. The run doesn't keep the defense honest. Balance does.

OnTheWarpath15
01-04-2013, 04:09 PM
Take a look at it this way:

Jamaal Charles had 285 carries this season.

In 2011, LeSean had a similar season in which he carried the ball 273 times.

The difference in their running games outside of those 2?

The 2012 Chiefs also had Hillis and Draughan carry the ball 144 times for a whopping 3.75 YPC. The team ran the ball 500 times.

The 2011 Eagles next 2 leading rushers were Mike Vick and Ronnie Brown with 118 carries together and 5.5 yards per carry. They ran the ball 450 times.

Basically, the 50 extra carries the Chiefs had were ALL with backups and they were less productive to the tune of 2 whole yards per carry.

Efficiency is MUCH better than banging your head against the wall. The run doesn't keep the defense honest. Balance does.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/seinfeld.gif

Mr. Laz
01-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Not sure what year Reid stopped calling plays

Rushing Play Percentage

Year RK Team ____%
<table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="204" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="25" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2012 25</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.382762" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">38.28%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="208" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="14" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2011 14</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.433398" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">43.34%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="208" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="24" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2010 24</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.408925" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">40.89%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="208" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="28" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2009 28</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.385063" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">38.51%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="208" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="27" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2008 27</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.396483" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">39.65%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="210" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="23" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2007 23</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.402101" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">40.21%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="212" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="24" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2006 24</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.423391" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">42.34%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="214" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="31" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2005 31</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.35443" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">35.44%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="214" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="28" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2004 28</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.392548" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">39.25%</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="sortable" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px none; outline: 0px none; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial,Verdana,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 18px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;" cellspacing="0" width="214" height="25"><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><tr class="div_114 team_21" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><td class="rank tr_arrow_none sorted" rel="22" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: center; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">2003 22</td><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Philadelphia (http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)</td><td rel="0.43121" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px 5px; border-width: 0px 0px 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 239, 239); outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; vertical-align: top; background-color: transparent; text-align: right; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">43.12%</td></tr></tbody></table>

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 04:10 PM
He stopped during the 2006 season.

O.city
01-04-2013, 04:11 PM
And he's not calling plays here, already said so.

supaboy
01-04-2013, 04:12 PM
Reid is a good coach if he has a defensive coordinator. Our defensive Coordinator,hid alot of Andy's short comings when Mcnabb was the qb. Andy calls time outs for no reason. Mismanages the clock. Im glad hes not our coach.

He wont use your running back he hates running the ball. Whoever your qb is,you better hope they're good,because if not defenses will kill them.He made Vick pass 60 times in our first game with no Oline.

Andy loves to call play action passes when we hardly ever ran the ball. Jamal charles will be very upset at Andy not running the ball. This is what our fans complained about the last two seasons. However congrats. Andy is better than Romeo Crunnel. Im happy Andy got another job hes been through alot,lost his son and his job.

O.city
01-04-2013, 04:14 PM
Do Eagles fans realize who was the playcaller in Philly?

whoman69
01-04-2013, 04:15 PM
Mike Martz, Andy Reid...both failed philosophies. There are times when you need to be able to run the ball to keep your defense fresh and ruin the timing of the opposition. Ask the Ravens how that go away from your offensive strength thing is going.

KC Tattoo
01-04-2013, 04:16 PM
Lets say good bye to Peyton fUcking Hillis. Well Bye

Easy 6
01-04-2013, 04:19 PM
And he's not calling plays here, already said so.

Very interesting, he's strictly going to be an old fashioned coach, focusing on the big picture, delegating authority to trusted assistants.

I LOVE it, it just keeps sounding better and better.

Easy 6
01-04-2013, 04:19 PM
Lets say good bye to Peyton ****ing Hillis. Well Bye

Yep, he can go ahead and submit that CIA application now, Reid will have O use for a player like him.

Raiderhader
01-04-2013, 04:21 PM
Mike Martz, Andy Reid...both failed philosophies. There are times when you need to be able to run the ball to keep your defense fresh and ruin the timing of the opposition. Ask the Ravens how that go away from your offensive strength thing is going.

The Ravens were not exactly going any where playing to their offensive strength. They went away from it for a reason.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 04:21 PM
Not sure what year Reid stopped calling plays[U][B]

2006 I believe.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 04:22 PM
Mike Martz, Andy Reid...both failed philosophies. There are times when you need to be able to run the ball to keep your defense fresh and ruin the timing of the opposition. Ask the Ravens how that go away from your offensive strength thing is going.

Mike Martz? :shake:

DeezNutz
01-04-2013, 04:22 PM
Very interesting, he's strictly going to be an old fashioned coach, focusing on the big picture, delegating authority to trusted assistants.

I LOVE it, it just keeps sounding better and better.

Watched two of the mic'd-up videos of Reid from NFL Films last night. I was was struck by his attention to detail during practices.

He's not screaming his head off or cursing, so get ready for dipshit fans to complain that Reid doesn't have enough "fire in his belly," but he's attentive to pretty much everything, including the demeanor established by his QB.

This is going to be a more disciplined team, and we're not going to be turning the ball over every two seconds.

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 04:25 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ksYUVDeGIQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 04:25 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CaQWlz6D-iQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Easy 6
01-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Watched two of the mic'd-up videos of Reid from NFL Films last night. I was was struck by his attention to detail during practices.

He's not screaming his head off or cursing, so get ready for dipshit fans to complain that Reid doesn't have enough "fire in his belly," but he's attentive to pretty much everything, including the demeanor established by his QB.

This is going to be a more disciplined team, and we're not going to be turning the ball over every two seconds.

That makes perfect sense... except for the recent swoon, his teams almost never look unprepared, they might lose, but they almost never looked like total ass.

He's a stickler, thank GOD.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 04:29 PM
That makes perfect sense... except for the recent swoon, his teams almost never look unprepared, they might lose, but they almost never looked like total ass.

He's a stickler, thank GOD.

They looked like ass because Michael Vick reverted to what he really was. The dude flat sucks. That left them relying on Nick Foles, who was completely overmatched at that point of the season.

You can bet that with a full offseason of prep work, Foles would have been ready for 2013.

O.city
01-04-2013, 04:30 PM
Vick had an amazing stretch a few years ago. It really was great.


But it blinded alot of people into thinking he's something that he's not.

MotherfuckerJones
01-04-2013, 04:31 PM
So excited this seems surreal. Good HC great front office coming. Good veteran staff. My O My

Bewbies
01-04-2013, 04:33 PM
We just watched the worst team we've ever had and it looks like we're going in the exact opposite direction. Passing offense, attacking defense. Sign my ass up!

Easy 6
01-04-2013, 04:35 PM
They looked like ass because Michael Vick reverted to what he really was. The dude flat sucks. That left them relying on Nick Foles, who was completely overmatched at that point of the season.

You can bet that with a full offseason of prep work, Foles would have been ready for 2013.

Gah, i wish 2013 started tomorrow.

supaboy
01-04-2013, 04:49 PM
They looked like ass because Michael Vick reverted to what he really was. The dude flat sucks. That left them relying on Nick Foles, who was completely overmatched at that point of the season.

You can bet that with a full offseason of prep work, Foles would have been ready for 2013.

Dude im an Eagles fan and Vick was not the problem at all. He had no starters on his Oline,try 3rd and 4th stringers,we didnt run the ball much,and Andy made Vick pass 50/60 times a few games which was absolutely dumb. He nearly got Vick killed. He started Foles and RUNS THE BALL alot. Vick was far from the problem on our team. It started when Reid moved Castillo to the defense. Castillo had no experience with defense whatsoever.

This has been looked upon as the dumbest move in NFL history courtesy of Andy Reid. On top of that we got rid of nearly all the good players on our Oline from 2010, for worst talent. Everyone wondered why Vick wasnt the same as 2010 its because of the Oline changes and scheme. Howard Mudds blocking scheme requires the qb not to run much. Thus not creating running lanes for Vick like Castillo did.

On top of that it required Vick to call his own protections. Basically Mudds scheme gave Vick responsibilities that made him think more than just going out and play. Castillo was a great Olines coach. Every Lineman Mudd brought in sucked. Mudds scheme was designed for Peyton Manning and the Colts. The problem is Vick is a mobile qb,not a statue, and oh yea Manning is probably the greatest qb ever. But im still happy that Andy has a new home. He's been through alot and hes a very tough man

Setsuna
01-04-2013, 04:51 PM
If Breaston stays I'm drafting him in FF this season.

O.city
01-04-2013, 04:51 PM
Dude im an Eagles fan and Vick was not the problem at all. He had no starters on his Oline,we didnt run the ball much,and Andy made Vick pass 50/60 times a few games which was absolutely dumb. He nearly got Vick killed. He started Foles and RUNS THE BALL alot. Vick was far from the problem on our team. It started when Reid moved Castillo to the defense. Castillo had no experience with defense whatsoever.

This has been looked upon as the dumbest move in NFL history courtesy of Andy Reid. On top of that we got rid of nearly all the good players on our Oline from 2010, for worst talent. Everyone wondered why Vick wasnt the same as 2010 its because of the Oline changes and scheme. Howard Mudds blocking scheme requires the qb not to run much.

And stand there like a statue and get blasted and on top of that it required Vick to call his own protections. Basically Mudds scheme gave Vick responsibilities that made him think more than just going out and play. Castillo was a great Olines coach. Every Lineman Mudd brought in sucked. Mudds scheme was designed for Peyton Manning and the Colts. The problem is Vick is a mobile qb,not a statue and oh yea Manning is probably the greatest qb ever. But im still happy that Andy has a new home. He's been through alot and hes a very tough man

You mean be an NFL quarterback.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-04-2013, 04:54 PM
Have Chiefs players said anything yet?

supaboy
01-04-2013, 04:56 PM
You mean be an NFL quarterback.

Dude Peyton wouldnt have succeeded on the Eagles with our horrid line. Foles broke his hand because one of em missed a block. Peyton probably almost never runs and btw youre talkin about the greatest qb in NFL history bro. Mudds putrid blocking scheme and his pop warner players couldnt block a college DLineman. Manning made his scheme look better than it really was.

The Franchise
01-04-2013, 04:57 PM
Basically what I'm hearing is that the issue was with Vick and Mudd.

Neither one of them will be in KC.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 04:57 PM
Dude im an Eagles fan and Vick was not the problem at all. He had no starters on his Oline,try 3rd and 4th stringers,

I'm familiar with the issues on the offensive line. I also watched Vick hold on to the ball too long time after time after time.

we didnt run the ball much,and Andy made Vick pass 50/60 times a few games which was absolutely dumb. He nearly got Vick killed. He started Foles and RUNS THE BALL alot.

So Vick wasn't the problem but the offense completely changed when Vick went out?

Vick was far from the problem on our team. It started when Reid moved Castillo to the defense. Castillo had no experience with defense whatsoever.

Yep, it was a stupid move. I'm sure he realizes that and won't repeat it here.

This has been looked upon as the dumbest move in NFL history courtesy of Andy Reid.

Dumbest move in NFL history? I think not.

On top of that we got rid of nearly all the good players on our Oline from 2010, for worst talent. Everyone wondered why Vick wasnt the same as 2010 its because of the Oline changes and scheme. Howard Mudds blocking scheme requires the qb not to run much. Thus not creating running lanes for Vick like Castillo did.

OK, so Andy Reed made Vick throw the ball too much but Howard Mudds blocking scheme victimized Vick because it requires the QB not to run much?

Sounds like Vick is the problem to me.

On top of that it required Vick to call his own protections. Basically Mudds scheme gave Vick responsibilities that made him think more than just going out and play.

Thanks for proving my point.

Sorry but you'll NEVER convince me Mike Vick is a good QB. Because he isn't.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 04:58 PM
You mean be an NFL quarterback.

Exactly.

It required him to read and adjust. He can't do that.

Pin Head
01-04-2013, 05:01 PM
Michael Vick has a low football accumen.

Brock
01-04-2013, 05:05 PM
Dude im an Eagles fan and Vick was not the problem at all. He had no starters on his Oline,try 3rd and 4th stringers,we didnt run the ball much,and Andy made Vick pass 50/60 times a few games which was absolutely dumb. He nearly got Vick killed. He started Foles and RUNS THE BALL alot. Vick was far from the problem on our team. It started when Reid moved Castillo to the defense. Castillo had no experience with defense whatsoever.

This has been looked upon as the dumbest move in NFL history courtesy of Andy Reid. On top of that we got rid of nearly all the good players on our Oline from 2010, for worst talent. Everyone wondered why Vick wasnt the same as 2010 its because of the Oline changes and scheme. Howard Mudds blocking scheme requires the qb not to run much. Thus not creating running lanes for Vick like Castillo did.

On top of that it required Vick to call his own protections. Basically Mudds scheme gave Vick responsibilities that made him think more than just going out and play. Castillo was a great Olines coach. Every Lineman Mudd brought in sucked. Mudds scheme was designed for Peyton Manning and the Colts. The problem is Vick is a mobile qb,not a statue, and oh yea Manning is probably the greatest qb ever. But im still happy that Andy has a new home. He's been through alot and hes a very tough man

The only thing you said that's true is that Vick isn't smart enough to be an NFL QB and his offensive line wasn't very good. Once you take Vick's athleticism out of hte equation and he has to stand and make reads and throws like an NFL QB, it all falls apart.

FD
01-04-2013, 05:08 PM
Basically what I'm hearing is that the issue was with Vick and Mudd.

Neither one of them will be in KC.

In fairness losing Jason Peters in camp was absolutely huge.

htismaqe
01-04-2013, 05:10 PM
Michael Vick has a low football accumen.

I think more accurately you could say he has a low football IQ. But yes, you're 100% correct. He's a tremendous athlete but a QB, he is not.

KC Tattoo
01-04-2013, 05:20 PM
Andy Reid started the pass happy before it was cool to be pass happy in this league.

Mama Hip Rockets
01-04-2013, 05:38 PM
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/1/4/3836176/so-youve-hired-andy-reid-a-guide-to-big-red

Congrats Chiefs fans, Andy Reid is your new coach. Here's what to expect.

Earlier this week, I did a Q&A with Arrowhead Pride where I spent a lot of time talking about where things went wrong with Reid in recent years. I'm not going to do that here. So if you're interested in hearing about that, definitely go check out the previous piece. (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1/2/3828200/andy-reid-kansas-city-chiefs-eagles)

What I want to do here is explain more about Reid's methodology and how he views the game.

First and foremost Reid sees the NFL through the prism of the pass. He believes it's a passing league and that success comes from throwing on offense and stopping the throw on defense. When you look at the game through Reid's eyes, you can understand where he puts his emphasis.

Personnel - Defense

How do you go about stopping the pass on defense? You rush the passer and you play coverage. So it stands to reason that Reid invests his defensive resources on pass rushing defensive ends and good corners. If you look at some of Andy Reid's biggest free agency expenditures, they're almost all in these categories. He spent mega bucks to go get Asante Samuel & Nnamdi Asomugha, traded for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and spent high picks on Lito Sheppard & Sheldon Brown. He's also spent big money on free agent pass rushers like Jevon Kearse, Jason Babin and spent first round picks on guys like Jerome McDougle and Brandon Graham.

Don't expect a lot of investment in LBs and safeties. The Chiefs are lucky in that they already have a good safety in Eric Berry, much like the Eagles were lucky to already have a safety named Brian Dawkins before Reid arrived. The only safety of note Reid has been able to find himself was Quintin Mikell who he got lucky with as an undrafted free agent. The LBs have been a revolving door for nearly Reid's entire tenure. Virtually no top picks have been used on LBs.

Personnel - Offense

On offense, it's not quite as obvious but there are a few Reid hallmarks. First and foremost is the offensive line, because you've obviously got to protect the passer if throwing the ball is how you win. One of his very first moves when he came to Philadelphia was to jump into the free agent market and make Jon Runyan the highest paid offensive lineman of all time (at the time). He's since spent a pair of first round picks on the line, as well as traded a first round pick for Jason Peters and paid him big money too. So expect heavy investment on the line.

Obviously QB is the other major factor in building a passing game and Reid has certainly always invested there to some degree. Obviously drafting Donovan McNabb with his first ever draft pick meant he didn't have to invest all that much at the QB position in the years, but he has had some levels of success stocking the team with young arms. None of these guys have ended up being particularly good QBs, but he has had some success with them and turned them into value later. AJ Feeley had a decent 6 game stretch here once and Andy turned that into a 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb played only a couple games, but was flipped for a 2nd rounder and DRC.

I would bet a lot of money on whichever guy Andy uses your #1 pick on to be an offensive tackle or a QB.

As for WRs, Andy has always had a complicated history. His first probably 4 years here were just a parade of so-so guys, which was baffling for a guy that called as many passes as he did. But if you look back at the overall body of work, it does seem like he has tried to stock the team with good WRs, to varying degrees of success. Obviously the most notorious move was the trade for Terrell Owens, which worked out spectacularly for one year and spectacular disaster the next. He spent a first round pick on Freddie Mitchell, who was a bust, and one on Jeremy Maclin, who is hardly dominant but a good player. He spent second rounders on Todd Pinkston, bust, & DeSean Jackson, hit.

So his record of success with WRs is spotty and his desire to find quality ones is somewhat suspect given that he runs a pass first offense.

As for running backs, Andy has never invested a top pick or big free agent money in the position. And why would he if he sees the game through the prism of the pass? Despite that, he's brought in some damn good RBs in time here. He picked Correll Buckhalter in the 4th round of the 2001 draft, Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round of the 2002 draft and LeSean McCoy in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. So he's really always had good backs, despite never spending big to get them.

Playcalling - Defense

I remind you that he sees the game through the prism of the pass. So on defense, everything is predicated on getting to the quarterback. In the Jim Johnson era, that was accomplished through constant blitzing. Johnson was a master of the blitz and not only knew when to call them, but excelled in hiding where they were coming from and confusing QBs.

After Jim Johnson passed away, one of his protoges, Sean McDermott, took over and tried to keep up the blitzing but never showed the same kind of nuance Johnson had. As a result, the Eagles were burned on blitzes through the air and on the ground time and time again. Reid or McDermott had no plan B.

After McDermott Reid hired Jim Washburn to bring his "wide 9" to the Eagles defensive line. He then reportedly offered the coordinator's job to Dick Jauron, who turned it down because he didn't want to work with the wide 9. (Perhaps hiring a position coach that would dictate what the defense did before the coordinator was even hired was a mistake in hindsight?) He then tried to pry Todd Bowles away from Miami, but they refused to give him permission. Eventually, he settled on offensive line coach Juan Castillo as his defensive coordinator.

Things were really a mess from there on and took Reid's view of defense to it's scary conclusion. He had big money corners in place (Samuel, then Asomugha), he had good pass rushers in Babin & Trent Cole and he had a scheme that let them loose after the QB on every play. Only it didn't work. Time and time again teams would run in the huge gaps created by the wide 9 and not filled by the group of undrafted free agents or whoever else happened to called on to play LB that week (I'm not kidding about that either, there was that much turnover). Or they would just ride the wide rushers out of the play and burn them with the pass.

But again, with Jim Johnson, the philosophy worked.

Playcalling - Offense

On offense, obviously be prepared for a lot more passing than you are used to. Andy likes to throw. Part of the core west coast offense philosophy is that short passes are basically just like runs. So while he may not hand it off 20 times a game to a back, he'll say that you threw some screens or quick slants and got the same effect. Is that true? That's for you to judge. RBs do catch a lot of passes in his offense though, so be prepared for Jamaal Charles to reasonably get 70+ targets next year. And he better be ready to pass block. If you're a RB in Reid's offense and you can't pass block and catch passes, you don't play.

Andy hasn't stuck to all of the core WCO principles. His offense has before more vertical than more traditional west coast schemes and he's always favored speed in WRs over size. He wants to hit guys on shorts slants and let them run with the ball or he wants to hit them over the top of the defenses. The big, move the chains, red zone type of WR has just never been what he's looked for.

Gimmicks. Get ready for them. I don't quite know what it is with Andy, but he's always wanted to try to be trickier than he really is and if he has success with a trick once, he'll use it time and time again. Two cases in point. The flea flicker. This worked like one time here and he's since used more than maybe every other team combined. It may have only worked that first time.

End arounds are another. There is not an Eagles fan alive when that doesn't groan when they see the Eagles running an end around motion. They do it so often that no defense is ever surprised or caught off guard. They did it so often that Reid's solution at one point became to run fake end around motions. Of course, then you're just slowing down the whole play and basically taking one of wideouts out of it. He should really just lose the end around from the playbook. Seriously Clark Hunt, if the ink isn't dry yet, write this on the margins of the contract.

Having said all that, here's what the philosophy boil down to. Throwing is the answer to your problems. I guarantee you'll hear Andy say this in the next year, "keep firing." That's his philosophy. If the pass is not working, you don't give up... you keep firing.

You pass early to get a lead so you can run later to keep it. If you don't get a lead or you fall behind... you keep firing.

And while this may sound bad, let's not forget the facts. Andy's offenses have scored a lot of points. They were 8th in ppg even last year (2011). They were 3rd in 2010. 5th in 2009. 6th in 2008 and so on. Situationally, you will question whether his philosophy makes sense. I certainly do... But when you step back and look at the big picture, they score points.

Other stuff

Andy is a player's coach. You'll almost never hear him call a player out and he'll always take the blame on himself. He shows very little emotion on the sidelines or in the press room. He's a nice guy with a jovial personality, but for the most part his press conferences will the be the most boring thing you hear in a given week.

That's how he deals with the media. He bores them to death. I'm not joking. He doesn't fight with them, he doesn't take their bait, he doesn't try to charm them or be their friend. He says what he plans to say and then he just waits them out. How many questions can you ask and get "I'll have to look at the film" or "we'll have to work on that" as a response before you just give up?

Expect to move around on draft day, a lot. Andy doesn't like to sit still. Whether it's trading back to acquire more picks or moving up, he's very active on draft day.

Learn to love big men as top picks. Andy Reid has made 14 top picks. 9 have been offensive or defensive lineman.

Oh and on draft days, he wears giants Hawaiian shirts.

So there's Andy Reid, a guide. Best of luck and enjoy.

"Time's yours" will soon enter the KC lexicon.

This all sounds wonderful to me.

Dylan
01-04-2013, 09:00 PM
Dude Peyton wouldnt have succeeded on the Eagles with our horrid line. Foles broke his hand because one of em missed a block. Peyton probably almost never runs and btw youre talkin about the greatest qb in NFL history bro. Mudds putrid blocking scheme and his pop warner players couldnt block a college DLineman. Manning made his scheme look better than it really was.

There was a breakdown in protection. Hard to keep quarterbacks upright when you lose the following starters on the offensive line: left tackle Jason Peters, center Jason Kelce, right guard Danny Watkins and right tackle Todd Herremans. McCoy was not too interested in blocking - he whiffed on quite a few plays.

Teams brought a lot of pressure on Vick. The passing attack did not make it easy for him to roll and run. Nevertheless, his decision-making on whether to run or throw resulted in easy sacks. Well, Vick has a lot of problems...

The Eagles were mostly winners. That speaks to the job that Reid has done.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-04-2013, 09:02 PM
You've gotta love a coach that's respected by rival fans

Dylan
01-04-2013, 09:06 PM
You've gotta love a coach that's respected by rival fans

Eagles fans will be nervous when Big Red and the Chiefs' comes to town this season... :D

prhom
01-05-2013, 12:51 AM
The pass happy part doesn't sound too bad. I was going to be really sad if we brought in another coach that wanted to just "run the ball and play good defense". Talk about a recipe for suck...