Shanahan Grilled by DC Press (Says the MRI Might Be Wrong Because of Old Injuries)

[RINGLEADER]

Watching Shanahan get questioned about putting RG3 into the game long enough to watch his knee go side-ways. Getting peeved. Fun to watch him squirm. The fact that he didn't come out and say RG3 was fine and instead is sending him to Dr. Andrews for another set of MRIs ("sometimes old injuries can fool new MRIs") doesn't sound good...

[bowener]

What is the possible injury then? And how serious?

[Buehler445]

I didn't watch the game. What happened to RGIII?

[KC_Lee]

I didn't watch the game. What happened to RGIII?

Bad snap in shotgun formation, twisted knee when trying to cover ball.

[FAX]

I didn't watch the game. What happened to RGIII?

On his last play, he fumbled the snap and went down ... it kinda looked like he was trying to scratch the back of his head with his patella.

FAX

[htismaqe]

What is the possible injury then? And how serious?

Career likely over.

[WilliamTheIrish]

...sometimes old injuries can fool new MRIs")

Really, Dr. Shannarat? I think this was misquoted. It should have read:

"I didn't really get clearance from any team physician".

[FAX]

It's true that MRIs are hardly exact. Half the time, the same MRI will give multiple, differing results depending on who is reading them. Been there. Got shirt.

Still, Rizzo screwed the pooch putting the entire franchise on the line like that. Especially considering what they gave up to acquire RG No Knee.

I feel terrible for the kid. It's just horrific that his career may be cut short due to the selfishness of Rizzo and his son. Disgusting, is what it is.

Go Wally!!!

FAX

[Ceej]

DAMMIT COACH KILMER!!!!!!1111

[-King-]

Career likely over.

The fuck? It wasn't that bad. Maybe an ACL/MCL which should take him out for about 6-8 months.


I'm starting to be okay with not trading for him. I don't think he'll be in the league for more than 3-5 years.

[htismaqe]

It's true that MRIs are hardly exact. Half the time, the same MRI will give multiple, differing results depending on who is reading them. Been there. Got shirt.

Still, Rizzo screwed the pooch putting the entire franchise on the line like that. Especially considering what they gave up to acquire RG No Knee.

I feel terrible for the kid. It's just horrific that his career may be cut short due to the selfishness of Rizzo and his son. Disgusting, is what it is.

Go Wally!!!

FAX

:Lin:

He's there to win games. I'm sure he begged Shanahan not to play...

[htismaqe]

The fuck? It wasn't that bad. Maybe an ACL/MCL which should take him out for about 6-8 months.


I'm starting to be okay with not trading for him. I don't think he'll be in the league for more than 3-5 years.

I was overreacting to the overreacting.

[jd1020]

This was Shanahans plan from the very beginning.

Ruin his knee so he can't run as he did in college, forcing him to become a pocket passer.

[DeezNutz]

It's true that MRIs are hardly exact. Half the time, the same MRI will give multiple, differing results depending on who is reading them. Been there. Got shirt.

Still, Rizzo screwed the pooch putting the entire franchise on the line like that. Especially considering what they gave up to acquire RG No Knee.

I feel terrible for the kid. It's just horrific that his career may be cut short due to the selfishness of Rizzo and his son. Disgusting, is what it is.

Go Wally!!!

FAX

I first read that as, "Been there. Got skirt." And I was like, "Me, too, brah...me, too."

[scho63]

The fans here in the DC area are furious and 99% are really pissed he stayed in so long. He was hurting early on and should have come out earlier.

[BigRock]

The bad thing for Shanny is Dr. Andrews unintentionally calling him a liar.

[htismaqe]

The fans here in the DC area are furious and 99% are really pissed he stayed in so long. He was hurting early on and should have come out earlier.

So they wanted to just forfeit a playoff game?

[FAX]

:Lin:

He's there to win games. I'm sure he begged Shanahan not to play...

Actually, there's little doubt that RG No Knee probably begged to play in that game. So, you have a rookie telling Rizzo it's okay? Against doctors orders?

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey in that post, but damn ... I hope it's not what it sounds like. Defending Rizzo on this deal?

FAX

[Buehler445]

http://nfl.cpl.delvenetworks.com/player/carousel/si.html?channelId=de89a8aeb3e422bac4eb48567f10ebd0&channelListId&mediaId=e2bef1c4a8344a75aa21492a6d55eff7

About the 7:35 mark. Ouch.

Truck broke.

[jd1020]

So they wanted to just forfeit a playoff game?

They probably realized the odds of them doing anything in the playoffs were shit and it was more important to protect the franchise.

[FAX]

I don't get it. The guy could barely walk after playing a quarter and a half.

Actually, I'd like to hear the argument as to why Rizzo made the right decision to A) Play him in the first place and/or B) Not pull him after they were up by 14.

FAX

[-King-]

http://i.imgur.com/x7rYF.jpg

[scho63]

So they wanted to just forfeit a playoff game?

Of course not!

He was around 50-60% to start and lost mojo as the game wore on. They have a lot of faith in Kirk Cousins and felt a 100% Cousins had a better chance then a 50% RGIII who relies so much on his legs to run. No ability to run kills so much of his threat.

Plus, they are afraid to destroy a career so early on like a racehorse that shouldn't run and does then is put down.

[ncCHIEFfan]

http://i.imgur.com/x7rYF.jpg

ROFL That's messed up!

[Chiefnj2]

The bad thing for Shanny is Dr. Andrews unintentionally calling him a liar.

Andrews was on the sideline. Where was Andrews telling Shanhan to pull him? Where was he arguing for his client/patient?

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora

Judging from Shanahan's remarks, RGIII injury situation can't be good. 2nd opinions. Flying to Andrews. References to AP and RG3's '09 ACL

[FAX]

Andrews was on the sideline. Where was Andrews telling Shanhan to pull him? Where was he arguing for his client/patient?

Good question.

FAX

[ptlyon]

If he pulled him they would be pissed off & asking today why he did...

[ncCHIEFfan]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora

Judging from Shanahan's remarks, RGIII injury situation can't be good. 2nd opinions. Flying to Andrews. References to AP and RG3's '09 ACL

Damn! Talk about setting a franchise back. All they gave up tp get this guy and then mismanaged an injury like that. :doh!:

Wish RG3 the best but hope ShannaRat chokes on it

[FAX]

If he pulled him they would be pissed off & asking today why he did...

And Rizzo could say "injury" and that would be the end of it.

FAX

[ncCHIEFfan]

If he pulled him they would be pissed off & asking today why he did...

That's why they get paid the big bucks

[Chiefnj2]

Shanahan is in a no win situation unless they win the game.

If he pulls Griffin and they lose then Griffin gets questioned - Did you ask to come out? No. Did a Dr. tell you you couldn't play? No. Did you tell coach Shannahan you couldn't play? No.

[ncCHIEFfan]

And Rizzo could say "injury" and that would be the end of it.

FAX

yep

[Coogs]

If he pulled him they would be pissed off & asking today why he did...

Not if they were actually watching the game Dude couldn't hardly move after the 2nd TD pass. Got hurt on the play right before that TD.

[ptlyon]

And Rizzo could say "injury" and that would be the end of it.

FAX

Thought you had to go somewhere? (from a post from another thread) :)

[HemiEd]

Career likely over.

Seriously? I wasn't aware of that, once the outcome was obvious, I locked in on watching the Shockers and Jayhawks.

[Jerm]

Rumors on Twitter that he has a torn ACL & MCL and is out 14-18 months...

Holy ish if true...watch out Shanahan.

[FAX]

Not if they were actually watching the game Dude couldn't hardly move after the 2nd TD pass. Got hurt on the play right before that TD.

Exactly so. It wasn't as though it wasn't obvious. And that, of course, is why Rizzo is taking so much heat.

The only possible justifications for leaving him in are, A) Important game worth risking losing your QB in or B) Didn't want to put up with press questions, or C) QB wanted to play and who am I to deny his opportunity or D) ... ??? ... forgot?? Yeah ... forgot to take him out. That's it.

FAX

[WeathermanKumke]

Torn ACL and PCL Per ESPN Radio 980 in Washington DC

[FAX]

Thought you had to go somewhere? (from a post from another thread) :)

I did and I do.

Got stuck. Started a thread. Too excited about the future. Agog. And other stuff, too.

Go Wally!!!

FAX

[Deberg_1990]

Oh well, they still have Cousins.....

[siberian khatru]

Rumors on Twitter that he has a torn ACL & MCL and is out 14-18 months...

Holy ish if true...watch out Shanahan.

Whoa Nellie

[Hootie]

14-18 months while Peterson missed less then half of that?

[DTLB58]

Torn ACL and PCL Per ESPN Radio 980 in Washington DC

Yep, that's what I heard also.

SportsGirl101 ‏@Arianna8927

TERRIBLE NEWS! “@McBlondeLand: @Arianna8927 Update at the top.... RGIII has torn his ACL and PCL WRIC Richmond News http://www.wric.com/story/20523289/redskins-await-rg3-knee#.UOsxsSkJZmN.twitter … …”

[Strongside]

Torn ACL and PCL Per ESPN Radio 980 in Washington DC

Sheesh. That sucks.

[DTLB58]

Oh well, they still have Cousins.....

How? I thought we were trading for him? :doh!:

[Lex Luthor]

Career likely over.

Adrian Peterson begs to differ.

So does Jamaal.

[-King-]

From my reliable sources, he has torn the A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y & Z CL's.

The JCL is the most serious.

[WeathermanKumke]

Adrian Peterson begs to differ.

So does Jamaal.

Peterson tore his ACL and MCL
Jamall tore his ACL

The PCL is most rare tear in the Knee and is very difficult to repair in surgery.

[Strongside]

From my reliable sources, he has torn the A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y & Z CL's.

The JCL is the most serious.

What's a ZJ?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

[ptlyon]

I did and I do.

Got stuck. Started a thread. Too excited about the future. Agog. And other stuff, too.

Go Wally!!!

FAX

ROFL - glad to finally see some excitement around here

[Strongside]

Peterson tore his ACL and MCL
Jamall tore his ACL

The PCL is most rare tear in the Knee and is very difficult to repair in surgery.

I will literally be sick if this kid's career is fucked because of this. That will be a damn shame. He can be something very special.

[htismaqe]

Oh well, they still have Cousins.....

At least they'll get a shot at a QB in next year's draft...

[tk13]

Adrian Peterson is most likely not from this planet, I wouldn't use him as the example to judge knee injury rehab.
Posted via Mobile Device

[htismaqe]

Shanahan is in a no win situation unless they win the game.

If he pulls Griffin and they lose then Griffin gets questioned - Did you ask to come out? No. Did a Dr. tell you you couldn't play? No. Did you tell coach Shannahan you couldn't play? No.

THIS.

[htismaqe]

Of course not!

He was around 50-60% to start and lost mojo as the game wore on. They have a lot of faith in Kirk Cousins and felt a 100% Cousins had a better chance then a 50% RGIII who relies so much on his legs to run. No ability to run kills so much of his threat.

Plus, they are afraid to destroy a career so early on like a racehorse that shouldn't run and does then is put down.

If Cousins had played the whole game, they would still have lost.

And Shanahan would be getting raked over the coals for that.

[FAX]

Peterson tore his ACL and MCL
Jamall tore his ACL

The PCL is most rare tear in the Knee and is very difficult to repair in surgery.

My uncle was in a car wreck that damaged his knee (along with a lot of other stuff). His surgeons were very reluctant to operate on the PCL damage involved ... apparently, you're right ... not an easy fix ... at all.

FAX

[FAX]

ROFL - glad to finally see some excitement around here

Well, for a Chiefs fan, days like these only come along once every hundred years or so, Mr. ptlyon.

It's time to get your Wally on.

Go Wally!!!

FAX

[The Franchise]

At least we know that the Chiefs won't be trading for Cousins now.

[FAX]

THIS.

This what?

This, RGIII gets asked a question that he doesn't even have to answer?

Wow. With all respect, Mr. htismaqe, I think you're on the wrong side of this one and a re-think is in order.

Normally, I'm with you 100% on stuff ... even the bad stuff and incorrect stuff. But this? Damn.

Rizzo should have pulled the rookie when he saw him struggling to walk. The kid was already injured.

This case is very much like Berry's injury ... he was hurt, they let him back in, and the next thing you know ... BOOM!!! .... out for the season.

Coaches have to make tough decisions. Decisions like this one right here. No single game is worth RGIII's entire career ... particularly considering what he cost to acquire.

FAX THE SENSIBLE

[WeathermanKumke]

Shaun Merriman and Carson Palmer is prime examples of what a PCL tear can do to a player.

[tk13]

Leaving him in the game wasn't nearly as stupid as continuing to run option plays forcing him to scramble when he could barely run. I think we all pretty much commented about it in the game thread. There was no excuse for that.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Joe Seahawk]

I completely tore my acl, pcl mcl and lcl, the pcl is a substantial ligament, mine was repaired with a cadaver achiles tendon, it is still a bit loose front to back.

[Buehler445]

14-18 months while Peterson missed less then half of that?

Roids

I completely tore my acl, pcl mcl and lcl, the pcl is a substantial ligament, mine was repaired with a cadaver achiles tendon, it is still a bit loose front to back.

:eek: WTF did you do?

[htismaqe]

This what?

This, RGIII gets asked a question that he doesn't even have to answer?

Wow. With all respect, Mr. htismaqe, I think you're on the wrong side of this one and a re-think is in order.

Normally, I'm with you 100% on stuff ... even the bad stuff and incorrect stuff. But this? Damn.

Rizzo should have pulled the rookie when he saw him struggling to walk. The kid was already injured.

This case is very much like Berry's injury ... he was hurt, they let him back in, and the next thing you know ... BOOM!!! .... out for the season.

Coaches have to make tough decisions. Decisions like this one right here. No single game is worth RGIII's entire career ... particularly considering what he cost to acquire.

FAX THE SENSIBLE

Dude, Shanahan could have pulled him. And he'd be getting grilled about it right now because they LOST.

Bottom line is it's pretty fucking obvious that RG3 is going to be hurt for the better part of his career, however long that might be.

You can't protect him or eventually he's sitting on the bench even when he's healthy. The GREAT RG3 isn't that "great" if he can't stay on the field.

Honestly, I'm pretty fucking sick of the RG3 talk already.

[Strongside]

I completely tore my acl, pcl mcl and lcl, the pcl is a substantial ligament, mine was repaired with a cadaver achiles tendon, it is still a bit loose front to back.

Jesus, man. Do you mean your leg was ripped off at the knee?

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology."

[WilliamTheIrish]

Shaun Merriman and Carson Palmer is prime examples of what a PCL tear can do to a player.

Palmer's knee was not just a PCL. He was ACL, MCL and dislocated his patella. His knee had to look like spaghetti.

[Titty Meat]

So now RGIII has torn both knees.

[KCUnited]

So now RGIII has torn both knees.

And TMJ.

[Brock]

Leaving him in the game wasn't nearly as stupid as continuing to run option plays forcing him to scramble when he could barely run. I think we all pretty much commented about it in the game thread. There was no excuse for that.
Posted via Mobile Device

This. It was a major coaching failure.

[bevischief]

http://i.imgur.com/x7rYF.jpg

Thread.ROFL

[InChiefsHeaven]

This sucks. I really like that kid. I hope he can rehab and come back some day...that's fucking horrible.

[Joe Seahawk]

Jesus, man. Do you mean your leg was ripped off at the knee?

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology."

A PWC exploded under me when I went to start it, it blasted me 20' into the air and broke my back and dislocated my knee, luckily the artery didn't get pinched or ruptured. I'm as good as new now, but my knee is a little sloppy.

[Dayze]

JFC!
when I check out of this life,, that's how I want to go.

[Buehler445]

A PWC exploded under me when I went to start it, it blasted me 20' into the air and broke my back and dislocated my knee, luckily the artery didn't get pinched or ruptured. I'm as good as new now, but my knee is a little sloppy.

PWC?

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

ESPN 980 ‏@ESPNRadio980

Richmond station backs off of RG3 story. Here is screen grab of original story pic.twitter.com/IyEdHqsz
View photo

[Dayze]

PWC?

personal water craft I believe.

[Buehler445]

personal water craft I believe.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[seclark]

nevermind

[boogblaster]

This was Shanahans plan from the very beginning.

Ruin his knee so he can't run as he did in college, forcing him to become a pocket passer.

yup .. and now we'll see if he was worth the pick and the money .. i doubt it .....

[DJ's left nut]

The fans here in the DC area are furious and 99% are really pissed he stayed in so long. He was hurting early on and should have come out earlier.

DC fans are furious because they lost - the end.

Had he been able to stay in and complete the comeback, they'd have been all over Shanarats nuts.

It's a results-oriented, hindsight analysis. Every one of them would've started RG in a goddamn home playoff game with the Skins being as hot as any team in football. And they can say all day that they'd have pulled him sooner, but they're likely FOS.

Kyle may have dicked up a little by not dialing down the motion stuff on offense, but the decision to start RGIII was what virtually anyone would've done.

[jd1020]

Kyle may have dicked up a little by not dialing down the motion stuff on offense, but the decision to start RGIII was what virtually anyone would've done.

I would have started him, no doubt. But as soon as he came limping back to the huddle after twisting something on the sidelines that would have been it.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista

RT @Insider: MRI of RGIII's knee suggests partial tears of ACL, LCL acc'd to people familiar w/ result.... http://wapo.st/US0Lch

[Dayze]

"See! we shouldn't take a QB that high!. we should draft 3 QBs in rounds 4-6"

/truefans.

[htismaqe]

DC fans are furious because they lost - the end.

Had he been able to stay in and complete the comeback, they'd have been all over Shanarats nuts.

It's a results-oriented, hindsight analysis. Every one of them would've started RG in a goddamn home playoff game with the Skins being as hot as any team in football. And they can say all day that they'd have pulled him sooner, but they're likely FOS.

Kyle may have dicked up a little by not dialing down the motion stuff on offense, but the decision to start RGIII was what virtually anyone would've done.

This.

[DJ's left nut]

I would have started him, no doubt. But as soon as he came limping back to the huddle after twisting something on the sidelines that would have been it.

It's damn hard to say.

The Seahawks turned momentum awfully quickly and the Redskins still had a lead. They needed to try to do something to get momentum back and RGIII, even a hobbled one, is still your best bet.

It's just impossible to say what you 'would have done' when you weren't the person asked to do it. We know what we'd like to have done, but we weren't standing on the sidelines with 90K playoff-starved fans and a lead in the 3rd quarter of a game that is tottering on the brink.

I can't blame Shanahan for leaving him in there because I think there's a chance I would have as well. It's a gamblers dilemma. It's like taking a bad beat in poker then going out there and betting aggressively the next time around - it's hard to break the gambler in yourself and football coaches are as human as the rest of us.

You know Shanahan was sitting there thinking that they just need 1 more bullet from RGIII to Moss or Hankerson to steal that momentum back and salt the game away. It just never happened and he got hurt.

I won't kill the guy for that.

[ghak99]

I wanted to drop kick the rat somewhere after the half. The kid was done and the play calling was fucking ridiculous.

Any Washington fan who couldn't see the kids career setting on the ledge waiting to be shoved off should be purged from the fan base.

[DJ's left nut]

Judy Battista ‏@judybattista

RT @Insider: MRI of RGIII's knee suggests partial tears of ACL, LCL acc'd to people familiar w/ result.... http://wapo.st/US0Lch

The other rumors are that most of this crap is just Fred Smoot talking out his ass and a bunch of talk radio guys in DC running with it.

Granted, it may not be, but don't set DC on fire just yet.

[RINGLEADER]

The fans here in the DC area are furious and 99% are really pissed he stayed in so long. He was hurting early on and should have come out earlier.

It's true. He was never the same after that run play in Q1 out of bounds. By the third quarter they were rolling him out and he was do that little hop that players normally do when they blow out a hammy. When the play came around where he blew out his knee (which I'll be surprised if he didn't, given that his knee went about 25-degrees from the SIDE of the knee) he was clearly a fraction of the guy who led the team on the opening two drives. Really sad to see.

[RINGLEADER]

The bad thing for Shanny is Dr. Andrews unintentionally calling him a liar.

He was really defensive about that. Said he asked if he was okay to play and Dr. Andrews said yes and that was that. But c'mon. Dude could hardly stand upright, much less run around and throw with any zip.

[Molitoth]

Shanahan is in a no win situation unless they win the game.

If he pulls Griffin and they lose then Griffin gets questioned - Did you ask to come out? No. Did a Dr. tell you you couldn't play? No. Did you tell coach Shannahan you couldn't play? No.

This. Everyone in Washington just needs to get over it. RG3 will get them back in the playoffs next year.

[Setsuna]

At the end of the game he was walking around just fine and all the while he was out, he was also walking around. I fail to see how it could be ACL/PCL.

[O.city]

At the end of the game he was walking around just fine and all the while he was out, he was also walking around. I fail to see how it could be ACL/PCL.

Alot of times, the ACL doesn't affect walking. Guy I played football with tore his in high school, he could run as fast as he could straight line, but would crumble when he tried to cut.

[DJ's left nut]

Alot of times, the ACL doesn't affect walking. Guy I played football with tore his in high school, he could run as fast as he could straight line, but would crumble when he tried to cut.

Eh, PCL does.

If the PCL goes, the knee essentially explodes. That is a massive ligament.

I think this is being overstated a little. It could've been ACL/MCL, but I don't see how he could've been out there walking if he'd have blown the PCL. Knee essentially has nothing holding it together at that point. I mean these guys are so muscled that I suppose the muscle in the area could've provided a little stability, but I don't see it providing that much. That and the fact that, by all account, a PCL blowing out is excruciatingly painful.

[O.city]

Eh, PCL does.

If the PCL goes, the knee essentially explodes. That is a massive ligament.

I think this is being overstated a little. It could've been ACL/MCL, but I don't see how he could've been out there walking if he'd have blown the PCL. Knee essentially has nothing holding it together at that point. I mean these guys are so muscled that I suppose the muscle in the area could've provided a little stability, but I don't see it providing that much. That and the fact that, by all account, a PCL blowing out is excruciatingly painful.

Yeah, I didn't see anything about the PCL, but I guess I didn't read carefully.

If that goes, he's not walking around on the sideline. I had ACL/MCL problems myself. After the initial pain explosion, it didn't really hurt that bad.

[RINGLEADER]

Alot of times, the ACL doesn't affect walking. Guy I played football with tore his in high school, he could run as fast as he could straight line, but would crumble when he tried to cut.

Remember when Moeaki lost his he was standing on the sidelines like everything was A-OK.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Jesus, man. Do you mean your leg was ripped off at the knee?

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology."

Your shnanananananas could be louder.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lcLZ3rxwVBY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[scho63]

If Cousins had played the whole game, they would still have lost.

And Shanahan would be getting raked over the coals for that.

There is no way of knowing that-it's only an opinion and we know what they say about opinions.....

[Easy 6]

I would love to take a big dump all over shanny, but Griffin wasnt coming out barring a major disaster, its playoff football and you want your ace in their.

Besides that, things i'm reading suggest the doctor is contradicting himself in an attempt to CHA.

Griffins presser should have put most of this to bed, he wanted to go, felt he could go and thats that.

But they better REALLY dial back on the designed runs for him next year, he wont last long, even a bigger guys time would be limited doing that... the read option well should only be gone to VERY sparingly.

[htismaqe]

There is no way of knowing that-it's only an opinion and we know what they say about opinions.....

KIRK FUCKING COUSINS FUCKING SUCKS.

How's that for a fucking opinion?

[O.city]

Well, now they may get to see Cousins for a complete season next year. Hopefully he doesnt' suck too bad.

[Chiefnj2]

RGIII was obviously hurt and a shell of himself, but he still threw some nice balls. There were a handful of drops and those Skins receivers got some alligator arms as the game went on.

[-King-]

RGIII was obviously hurt and a shell of himself, but he still threw some nice balls. There were a handful of drops and those Skins receivers got some alligator arms as the game went on.

He was Casseling the hell out of passes after he got reinjured.

[MahiMike]

RG3 suffers from skinny knee syndrome. Also skinny arms and skinny frame altogether.

[the Talking Can]

that sucks, i dig RG3

[JoeyChuckles]

How is Robert?

[houstonwhodat]

Evidently DC is not a good place to play if you don't want your legs snapped in half.

See Joe Theisman


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BUIf5m0bgu0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Pasta Little Brioni]

KIRK FUCKING COUSINS FUCKING SUCKS.

How's that for a fucking opinion?

This. I'm tired of hearing about this slapdick sumbitch.

[Dylan]

There are two stories here:

Do you suppose world-renowned orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews told USA Today Sports that he did not clear Robert Griffin III "to return for four plays against the Ravens on Dec 9 when he sprained his knee" - Which will coincide with the release of his new book “On Any Given Monday” on Tuesday?

Why did Andrews wait three weeks to release the information?


Seattle Seahawks at Washington Redskins:
There are different views on whether Griffin III should have continued playing Sunday after reinjuring his knee in the first half. Standard protocol suggests team doctor's rule the sidelines. Coaches do not have the ability to override the judgment of doctor’s decision to let players back on the field.

In clear view of the camera, RGIII "went to a shed behind the Redskins bench, had his knee taped" by Dr. Andrews and was cleared to return to the field.

Andrews does not have to speak with the media since the law protects client medical information.




Just my opinion

[Dylan]

Evidently DC is not a good place to play if you don't want your legs snapped in half.

See Joe Theisman


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BUIf5m0bgu0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hey, now! :evil:

[jspchief]

It was interesting listening to Tony Dungy talk about this on the radio this morning. He was pretty candid in saying that his decision would be based on whether the less than 100% starter still gave you a better chance to win than the healthy backup. Never once did he indicate that the player's long term health factored in. Basically it was play the guy that gave you the best chance to win unless the doctor or player took him(self) out.

I think maybe it shines some light on the part of the business we all kind suspect exists. They are making potentially million dollar decisions. Maybe that playoff win is a higher priority.

My opinion is simply that the Redskins exposed themselves to this risk when they implemented an offense that we all know exposes the QB to greater injury risk. We've seen it before with Vick and other running threat QBs. Their legs win games, and their injuries lose them.

[htismaqe]

It was interesting listening to Tony Dungy talk about this on the radio this morning. He was pretty candid in saying that his decision would be based on whether the less than 100% starter still gave you a better chance to win than the healthy backup. Never once did he indicate that the player's long term health factored in. Basically it was play the guy that gave you the best chance to win unless the doctor or player took him(self) out.

I think maybe it shines some light on the part of the business we all kind suspect exists. They are making potentially million dollar decisions. Maybe that playoff win is a higher priority.

My opinion is simply that the Redskins exposed themselves to this risk when they implemented an offense that we all know exposes the QB to greater injury risk. We've seen it before with Vick and other running threat QBs. Their legs win games, and their injuries lose them.

Absolutely the playoff win is higher priority. How many chances will you get? A couple of different bounces next year and the Skins might miss the playoffs.

[BigRock]

Andrews was on the sideline. Where was Andrews telling Shanhan to pull him? Where was he arguing for his client/patient?

Yesterday? I'm not sure what happened yesterday. I would assume he was cleared to keep playing, but that's a different conversation than whether a hobbled, ineffective QB gave the Redskins a better chance to win or not.

But the Andrews situation at large is in reference to a different game. I think their game against the Ravens, where RGIII initially hurt his knee, came back in for a bit, and then went out for the rest of that game. He then missed their next game and was never quite the same.

According to Shanny, Dr. Andrews told him that RGIII was cleared to return to that Ravens game. So if he ended up injuring himself worse when he came back in, hey, not Shanny's fault.

Except Dr. Andrews contradicted that in an interview this past weekend. He said RGIII avoided the doctors and didn't let himself get checked out. So he didn't clear him to go back in because he never even got to look at him. Which would suggest that Shanny made up a conversation.

When RGIII came out the second time against the Ravens, they finally got to check him and said he couldn't go back in.

Shanny tried to tap dance around all of that today. But the point is that everything that happened yesterday is part of a bigger picture where Shanny's credibility doesn't look so hot.

[Dylan]

It was interesting listening to Tony Dungy talk about this on the radio this morning. He was pretty candid in saying that his decision would be based on whether the less than 100% starter still gave you a better chance to win than the healthy backup. Never once did he indicate that the player's long term health factored in. Basically it was play the guy that gave you the best chance to win unless the doctor or player took him(self) out.

I think maybe it shines some light on the part of the business we all kind suspect exists. They are making potentially million dollar decisions. Maybe that playoff win is a higher priority.

My opinion is simply that the Redskins exposed themselves to this risk when they implemented an offense that we all know exposes the QB to greater injury risk. We've seen it before with Vick and other running threat QBs. Their legs win games, and their injuries lose them.


An NFL general manager was asked; if the spread option offense could be more than a trend in NFL.

He said there is a reason the spread option offense has not been in the pros - It was not only the violence of the game make it unlikely an option quarterback stays healthy – More importantly, you need a consistent franchise quarterback that gives you continuity. Option quarterbacks are unable to do that.

[Joe Seahawk]

In clear view of the camera, RGIII "went to a shed behind the Redskins bench, had his knee taped" by Dr. Andrews and was cleared to return to the field.


Just my opinion

I found that shed thing rather odd WTF?

[okcchief]

The reason I liked RG3 is because I thought he could be a pocket passer and use his mobility to extend plays. The option shit Washington was running consistently was bound to get him killed. They are pretty dumb if they think a QB can do that and survive in the NFL with his frame. Especially, trading away your future to do so. I just have to SMH.

[Dylan]

I found that shed thing rather odd WTF?

I must admit that I have never seen that before. Maybe, I've just never noticed sheds on the sidelines.


The reason I liked RG3 is because I thought he could be a pocket passer and use his mobility to extend plays. The option shit Washington was running consistently was bound to get him killed. They are pretty dumb if they think a QB can do that and survive in the NFL with his frame. Especially, trading away your future to do so. I just have to SMH.

Griffin’s a likeable guy. In interviews he seems to be well grounded, humorous, thoughtful, and incredibly smart. There’s not a whole lot there not to like except that he plays in the NFC East division.

I hope that Griffin comes back strong next year, and more importantly, Shanahan redesigns the offense.

[Dylan]

Shanahan trying to improve his record at any cost:
"I talked to Robert and Robert said to me, 'Coach, there's a difference injured and being hurt. I guarantee I'm hurting right now, gimme a chance to win this football game because I guarantee I'm not injured.' So that was enough for me. I thought he did enough for us this year to have that opportunity to stay in the football game. It's always a tough decision, when to pull a guy, when not to. But I talked to him at halftime and I had to feel good about him to go back in.

"And I told him we're gonna run the football and you're gonna have to prove (it) to me."

Shanahan wasn't the only one who noticed either:
NFL:AroundTheLeague@NFL_ATL
Pete Carroll: "It was hard to watch RG3 tonight"

Mike Jones from Washington Post:
“If you noticed it earlier, when we rushing the passer, everyone was worried about him getting out and containing him,” [Pete] Carroll said. “After we saw what he was doing and how he was moving, I tried to encourage the guys to not be worried about [him] breaking containment and running like crazy. It was more like a normal quarterback back there, and [that] we keep our pressure and our rushes and not be so concerned about him, trying to keep him in the pocket.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/01/06/seahawks-quickly-recognized-robert-griffin-iiis-diminished-abilities/

[Titty Meat]

I disagree Hootie at some point Shannahan has to make the move after it became obvious RG was not going to do anything.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Robert Griffin expected to undergo surgery this week on torn LCL and at that time doctors will determine if any damage has been done to ACL.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Bummer Tude Dude

[htismaqe]

Coming up on NFLN, discussion about the NFL CHANGING THE RULES to prevent players from "putting themselves in harms way".

I'm not shitting you.

They played a clip of RG3 saying he gets paid to play football and he needed to play and followed it with a tease that the NFL is going to "make changes" so that players can't continue to hurt themselves.

FUCK THE NFL. JFC

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Holy balls Goodell's version of the NFL is a joke. He's the Pioli of Commisioners.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

MarkMaske ‏@MarkMaske

According to medical experts not involved in R. Griffin case, recovery from LCL repair can take 8 to 12 months... http://wapo.st/WKTQ1T

[jspchief]

Coming up on NFLN, discussion about the NFL CHANGING THE RULES to prevent players from "putting themselves in harms way".

I'm not shitting you.

They played a clip of RG3 saying he gets paid to play football and he needed to play and followed it with a tease that the NFL is going to "make changes" so that players can't continue to hurt themselves.

FUCK THE NFL. JFC

Considering the chances of former players suing the league, I'm not sure I can blame him on this issue.

It's a tough topic. You know there are unspoken (and perhaps spoken) attitudes in the league about playing through injuries. The players are probably pressured, and.put pressure on themselves in many cases. Then 15 years down the road, the media is asking tough questions about concussions, and players are looking to be compensated for their lingering health issues. It's only a matter of time until a player with RG3 talent and Ryan Leaf brains decides the NFL was negligent in protecting him from a career ending injury.

[Dylan]

According to many medical sites, LCL injuries are very rarely the only injury a knee has.

Similar to MCL tears, isolated injuries of the lateral collateral ligament (LCL) are uncommon, typically occurring in association with ACL or posterior cruciate ligament (PCL) tears. Injuries of the lateral compartment are complex, usually with injuries to multiple components; they are often more disabling than injuries of the medial structures because of the greater forces to which lateral structures are subjected during normal gait.[2]

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/401472-overview

[Dylan]

Sally Jenkins, Columnist Washington Post, nailed it with this [1,060 word] article

Excerpt: Redskins invested in Robert Griffin III, then everyone put his future in jeopardy
But the one who had more responsibility than anyone else was Shanahan. He wanted institutional control of the Redskins, prized a CEO-like role, and he got it. There is no taking the burden of this decision off him.
There isn’t a coach on the planet who doesn’t obsess over knees, who doesn’t know exactly what stresses them, and who can’t diagram a knee. They all understand how playing with an injury alters movement, and creates complications and potential chain reactions.
Four weeks ago, when Griffin hurt his LCL against the Baltimore Ravens, the Redskins were overjoyed to announce that an MRI showed no structural damage at that time. He had just a “strained” ligament. There was no trouble reading that picture — it was totally clear to them.
For a while, it looked like the RGIII-Shanahan partnership was so good, so electric, that they could overcome the Redskins’ terrible recent past. Instead, all of the old organizational flaws seem present again: the half-truths and rationalizations for terrible decisions, and the habit of spending too heavily today and mortgaging tomorrow.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-invested-in-robert-griffin-iii-then-everyone-put-his-future-in-jeopardy/2013/01/08/66bf6df8-59b3-11e2-9fa9-5fbdc9530eb9_story_1.html

*Bold - Ms Sally got that part right.

[Stad]

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
Redskins QB Robert Griffin III will undergo total reconstruction of knee for complete tear of ACL and LCL. Recovery projection: 6-8 mos.
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Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
Dr. James Andrews will perform surgery in about 6 hours. Diagnosis already made that ACL graft of @RGIII's 2009 surgery is complete tear
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[Smed1065]

Wow

[Dylan]

Dr. James Andrews backtracks story:

How was the decision made to let Robert Griffin III play on Sunday? 'looks at me' and 'I guess he's OK.' Hi' sign as in, 'He's running around, so I guess he's OK.'

Dr. James Andrews told the Washington Post that "Shanahan didn't lie about it, and I didn't lie."

"I didn't get to examine (Griffin's knee) because he came out for one play, didn't let us look at him and on the next play, he ran through all the players and back out onto the field," he told the newspaper.

"Coach Shanahan looks at me like, 'Is he OK?' and I give him the 'Hi' sign as in, 'He's running around, so I guess he's OK.' But I didn't get to check him out until after the game. It was just a communication problem. Heat of battle. I didn't get to tell him I didn't get to examine the knee. Mike Shanahan would never have put him out there at risk just to win a game."

Asked about the discrepancy in accounts, Shanahan on Sunday offered this explanation.

“Well, after the game we talked in detail. When he went back into the game at that time, I looked over at Dr. Andrews, he said, ‘Yeah, he’s ok to go back in.’ Of course I’m sitting there trying to evaluate Kirk Cousins’ play, so when someone says he’s OK… Well, what Dr. Andrews is talking about, when I talked to him today, he said, ‘Hey, Robert came around and he started showing us he could run; he was sprinting around and then he just took off, so I just figured he was OK. I didn’t go through a thorough examination of him until after the game.’ I wasn’t really sure in what detail he was talking about at that time. He felt Robert – just looking at him run and then take off – that he was ok to go back in. I looked at him for the next three plays, the first time he had Santana [Moss] shell across, the next time he threw a little out-round, and it looked like his footwork was good. But you could see on that last one, where he hit Pierre Garçon, that when he stepped into the pocket that it wasn’t right. At that time Pierre caught it and he was trying to kill the clock, but we were going to take him out at that time, and that’s when Kirk came in.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/01/08/james-andrews-backs-shanahans-account-of-griffins-re-entry-of-baltimore-game/

Shame that RGIII had to be drafted by the Redskins organization.

Enough, let me go read about my own team.

[tk13]

There's a lot of confusion about this. This story is not about Sunday's game. The problem with Shanahan and James Andrews was during the Baltimore game earlier in the season. That was what Andrews was complaining about, and said he was nervous about keeping Griffin out there.

Might be the only drawback to having a star QB really... if he puts himself back in the game, he puts himself back in the game. You're gonna get killed if you pull him to get checked out.

[Hootie]

omg Dylan SHUT UP

this is such a non story

he'll be the same RGIII at the beginning of next season

we'll see if he gets injured again

[Dylan]

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
Redskins QB Robert Griffin III will undergo total reconstruction of knee for complete tear of ACL and LCL. Recovery projection: 6-8 mos.
Collapse Reply Retweeted Favorite

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
Dr. James Andrews will perform surgery in about 6 hours. Diagnosis already made that ACL graft of @RGIII's 2009 surgery is complete tear
Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite

Everything you need to know about the Redskins spin city organization: Yeah, let's rush Griffin back.

Griffin's injury is not as bad as thought and Robert will be ready for training camp. We're right on track to win the Super Bowl next season. :evil:

[Dylan]

omg Dylan SHUT UP

this is such a non story

he'll be the same RGIII at the beginning of next season

we'll see if he gets injured again

It is a big story because of the way Griffin III was handled -

It's sad that Griffin was forced into that situation.

Now put me on ignore, ya biddie! :thumb:

[Hootie]

'forced into that situation'

I've been trying to be less hostile on this board, avoiding altercations

but you're fucking stupid, and you know nothing about football

nothing

[tk13]

Wise man is wise. :)

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=8296349&postcount=536

That's what scares me about Robert Griffin III. Amazing talent... but guys who run around never stay healthy when they're taking licks like that from NFL defenses.

T-Bow and Cam Newton at least have a shot because they are freaks. They are built like a TE/LB.

[Hootie]

Newton doesn't really take hits, though.

Watch him. He takes what he can get, and then he always does this little tumble slide thing and avoids ever taking direct hits. It's quite impressive, really.

[Hootie]

Newton doesn't really take hits, though.

Watch him. He takes what he can get, and then he always does this little tumble slide thing and avoids ever taking direct hits. It's quite impressive, really.

[tk13]

Yeah but even when people hit him it never looks that bad because Newton's as big or bigger than the guy hitting him. He can inflict punishment when he wants to. RGIII will never be able to do that.

[Hootie]

True.

I think dos Shanahan should probably start fading that read option and working on developing him into a true pocket passer with pocket mobility. No doubt in my mind RGIII has that ability, he's a very gifted passer. He's not Vick.

[Dylan]

'forced into that situation'

I've been trying to be less hostile on this board, avoiding altercations

but you're fucking stupid, and you know nothing about football

nothing
Capt Tasty Cheeks is severely dumb individual.
















LMAO

[Dylan]

True.

I think dos Shanahan... .

LOL

[Sorter]

Well, I can only fault Shanarat for not taking him out when he should have IMO. I would have pulled him after halftime. However, I've never coached in a playoff game so I can't really relate. It is hard to tell an athlete no, especially when they feel they can still be effective at HS, College, or professional level.

[Hootie]

the Redskins based their offense around the run this year...what they should do is use the read option as a change up to keep the defenses on their toes rather than their bread and butter.

[Sorter]

the Redskins based their offense around the run this year...what they should do is use the read option as a change up to keep the defenses on their toes rather than their bread and butter.

Yup.

[Dylan]

I doubt that Griffin III would be the impact player teammates and fans have come to expect if he was primarily a pocket passer.

[Sorter]

I doubt that Griffin III would be the impact player teammates and fans have come to expect if he was primarily a pocket passer.

I disagree. That guy has solid pocket presence and ability to move within and extend the pocket, as well as great accuarcy and arm strength. If the Rat decided to run more PA off their stretch play in the pistol/singleback sets instead of focusing on having him run a ZR, I think it would benefit both. RG3 is talented enough as a pure passer to fit any offensive system IMO ( WCO, WCO-varied ala Reid/ McCarthy, E/P, etc)

[Saccopoo]

The ****? It wasn't that bad. Maybe an ACL/MCL which should take him out for about 6-8 months.


I'm starting to be okay with not trading for him. I don't think he'll be in the league for more than 3-5 years.

Oh no...don't backtrack.

Fucking people thinking this guy is the resurgence of Fran Tarkenton.

Griffin is a 6'1", 215 lbs. guy that relied on his legs to make the downfield play. He was going to get destroyed and yet everyone around here thought he was the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Concussion earlier. Legs now.

How happy are the Redskins giving up those picks now?

[Sorter]

Oh no...don't backtrack.

****ing people thinking this guy is the resurgence of Fran Tarkenton.

Griffin is a 6'1", 215 lbs. guy that relied on his legs to make the downfield play. He was going to get destroyed and yet everyone around here thought he was the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Concussion earlier. Legs now.

How happy are the Redskins giving up those picks now?

RG3 can still be an exceptional pocket guy. He's made several plays from the poclet going through reads that are fantastic. For example, early in the Dallas (1) game, he ran a PA bubble screen on a doubles LT, in which he sold PA (might have been a ZR but the way it developed I doubt it iirc) and then pumped to the bubble, looked down the field on the left 9 route, and then *checked it down* to a TE on a 9yd in-dig.

Granted, I'm trying to recall this from memory and will have to rewatch to make sure it is accurate, but I do know that Griffin went through a minimum of 2 reads before checking it down to a 9 yd gain that wasn't probably supposed to be his check down. I think he's more than a competent pocket passer and can be elite despite scheme. JMHO though.

[BryanBusby]

I'm sure the field had nothing to do with it at all

http://telly.com/embed.php?guid=01N9CG

They were basically fucking painting dirt green lol Way to go cheap ass Snyder

[Sorter]

I'm sure the field had nothing to do with it at all

http://telly.com/embed.php?guid=01N9CG

They were basically ****ing painting dirt green lol Way to go cheap ass Snyder

Wow. Just sad.

[Groves]

For example, early in the Dallas (1) game, he ran a PA bubble screen on a doubles LT, in which he sold PA (might have been a ZR but the way it developed I doubt it iirc) and then pumped to the bubble, looked down the field on the left 9 route, and then *checked it down* to a TE on a 9yd in-dig.

That's totally what I recall, too. May have been a couple of ZR-7s and I think an R2D2 in there, but I'm just shooting from my memory as well.




You X and O guys always have my respect. Keep talking.

[htismaqe]

the Redskins based their offense around the run this year...what they should do is use the read option as a change up to keep the defenses on their toes rather than their bread and butter.

Well, it's entirely possible RG3 just wasn't capable of running it that way. At least not yet.

[htismaqe]

I'm sure the field had nothing to do with it at all

http://telly.com/embed.php?guid=01N9CG

They were basically fucking painting dirt green lol Way to go cheap ass Snyder

Yeah, the field was awful.

[scho63]

Rumors flying around down here that Dan Snyder nearly fired Shanahan over this injury and Shanahan and the doctor are in the doghouse for beating RGIII into the ground when they had a very competent back-up in Cousins.

Cousins was drafted for just this reason for fear all the running by RGIII could be risky....

The NFL is not very happy about the field as well, considering that this field is now known as Veteran Stadium II with all the injuries it is causing, including Adrian Peterson's.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Shanahan is an asshole.

[BigMeatballDave]

Yeah, the field was awful.

I bet he switches it to Fieldturf.

[Chiefspants]

Oh no...don't backtrack.

****ing people thinking this guy is the resurgence of Fran Tarkenton.

Griffin is a 6'1", 215 lbs. guy that relied on his legs to make the downfield play. He was going to get destroyed and yet everyone around here thought he was the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Concussion earlier. Legs now.

How happy are the Redskins giving up those picks now?

RGIII is not Michael Vick, it's not Griffin's fault that Shanahan is a moron.

[htismaqe]

Rumors flying around down here that Dan Snyder nearly fired Shanahan over this injury and Shanahan and the doctor are in the doghouse for beating RGIII into the ground when they had a very competent back-up in Cousins.

Cousins was drafted for just this reason for fear all the running by RGIII could be risky....

The NFL is not very happy about the field as well, considering that this field is now known as Veteran Stadium II with all the injuries it is causing, including Adrian Peterson's.

ROFL

Shanahan was trying to win a fucking playoff game. You don't do that with some slapdick like Kirk fucking Cousins.

[htismaqe]

RGIII is not Michael Vick, it's not Griffin's fault that Shanahan is a moron.

ROFL

Now Shanahan is a moron. For playing a guy that said HE WANTED TO PLAY.

People have lost their fucking minds.

[Garcia Bronco]

Shanahan is going to end up getting fired over this. It'll take another season, but the NFL has passed him by....

[Hammock Parties]

http://i.imgur.com/EAIh8ar.jpg