Do you get a flu shot?

[Bump]

Seems like this flu season is pretty bad so far. Especially here in Boston. All I see on the news is how everyone should get a flu shot.

I have never had a flu shot, there's all sorts of chemical shit that I don't want in my body, the thimerosal (mercury), aluminum and other shit. I don't trust it for a second.

I've never had a flu shot and I haven't had the flu since....I can't even remember when.

I know I know, I'm a batshit crazy dumbass for not trusting it, after all the government tells us we should take it!!

[Bowser]

Haven't had one in years. Some winters I get sick as fuck, others I don't.

This year I've been to the doctor once for a really sore throat, and the Z-Pac killed it. Currently dealing with a head cold.

[QuikSsurfer]

I work for the state hospital - they came around to our offices to give us flu shots back in October.

[Shogun]

Not for a really long time. Zicam takes care of me.

[MeatRock]

I never get it. Had a friend get the flu shot once and the doctor accidentally gave him triple the dose or some shit and he got sick as fuck.

[keg in kc]

Fuck no.

[Bugeater]

Never get them, rarely get sick.

[Bugeater]

Oh, and a BIG_DADDY rant about vaccines in 3...2...1...

[lewdog]

I pass on it as well even though I work in the healthcare field. Some years I get the flu shot and still get sick. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Haven't had the flu shot in the past 3 years and haven't had the flu.

[Johnny Vegas]

never have gotten the flu shot in the last decade if not longer. Pretty much don't even remember if I ever have gotten one. I assume I did at least once when I was a kid by my mother's prerogative, but I don't recall getting one. I constantly wash my hands and pop c vitamins everyday during the winter months. I hardly, if ever, get sick. I'll be 30 in May. As soon as I start talking about not getting sick, its only then I get sick. Great.

[GloryDayz]

Yes...

[Bump]

I think the weed is a good immune system booster or something. I didn't start smoking weed until about 4 years ago. The only time I've been ill (fever) in the last 4 years was when I moved to boston and went without weed for several months.

Before weed, I used to sick at least once a year with a fever or bronchitis, strep throat, tonsilitus, etc. At least once a year and that was when I never smoked weed.

I've never been sick when I smoke weed daily, not once. A common cold sometimes but it usually clears up within a day or 2 and never had a fever or anything like that.

There's something to it man...

[MeatRock]

LMAO

[lewdog]

I think the weed is a good immune system booster or something. I didn't start smoking weed until about 4 years ago. The only time I've been ill (fever) in the last 4 years was when I moved to boston and went without weed for several months.

Before weed, I used to sick at least once a year with a fever or bronchitis, strep throat, tonsilitus, etc. At least once a year and that was when I never smoked weed.

I've never been sick when I smoke weed daily, not once. A common cold sometimes but it usually clears up within a day or 2 and never had a fever or anything like that.

There's something to it man...

Dude, I am all for weed being legal but it isn't the cure-all for everything man. Jesus.

[seaofred]

Never get it and never will. Horrible chemicals in it and the flu stran in it isn't typically the stran for that year. So basically it's worthless.

[Shogun]

I think the weed is a good immune system booster or something. I didn't start smoking weed until about 4 years ago. The only time I've been ill (fever) in the last 4 years was when I moved to boston and went without weed for several months.

Before weed, I used to sick at least once a year with a fever or bronchitis, strep throat, tonsilitus, etc. At least once a year and that was when I never smoked weed.

I've never been sick when I smoke weed daily, not once. A common cold sometimes but it usually clears up within a day or 2 and never had a fever or anything like that.

There's something to it man...


Yep. Just colds here and there for me too. The green keeps you clean

[Jenson71]

I didn't get it in high school or college, but I've gotten it the past two years (actually, the nasal spray).

I think I may have gotten the flu as a kid a couple of times.

[Munson]

I hardly ever get sick. If I do, its just a minor cold that lasts a couple days.

I've never had a flu shot, and never will. I don't trust the shit they put in it.

[Deberg_1990]

No. Biggest scam of all times
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I hardly ever get sick. It's been going around here and everyone is getting nailed with it. So far, so good for me. As usual. Twice I've paid for a flu shot and both times I instaneously got sick with the flu for a week. I literally paid for the right. My body didn't fight off the live stream they injected and it got me sick as fuck. No thanks. Never again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I'm a fucking idiot. Fool me thrice, I'm a masochist. No thanks.

[CrazyPhuD]

Every year, and I generally don't get sick. Hell when I get sick it's usually because of alcohol. Frankly if I avoid getting sick once every 10-20 years because of it it's worth the cost. Worst case it's practice for my immune system training it what it should seek out and kill!

LOL just think of it as going to the gym for your immune system.

[modocsot]

For as long as I can remember, I never have. But, my 15 month old daughter was diagnosed as being allergic to eggs, so she couldn't be vaccinated from the flu. As such, everyone in the modocsot household got vaccinated to minimize being carriers and exposing my precious little trouble-maker to the flu... at least that's what her pediatrician suggested.

[griZZly64]

Fuck no.. I don't wear tampons either if that was your next question.

[kcmaxwell]

Have for years as a choice, now the healthcare org I work for makes it mandatory. Don't really dig that much but I like to eat, and have utilities and stuff...

[Floridafan]

The primary study linking Alzheimer's with the flu vaccine was conducted by Dr. Hugh Fudenberg, MD, an immunogeneticist and biologist with nearly 850 papers published in peer review journals. According to his findings, individuals who received "Five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied), his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's disease is 10 times higher than if they had zero, one, or two shots."
In other words, an accumulation of Thimerosal in a person's system might increase her overall risk of Alzheimer's disease, said Dr. Fudenberg at an international vaccine conference, in Arlington, Virginia in 1997.
More questions on the safety of the vaccine's ingredient were raised in a study published by Dr. Boyd Haley in collaboration with researchers at the University of Calgary. Dr. Haley stated that "seven of the characteristic markers that we look for to distinguish Alzheimer's disease can be produced in normal brain tissues, or cultures of neurons, by the addition of extremely low levels of mercury." (See Resources)

Read more: Flu Shots & Alzheimer's Disease | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5409913_flu-shots-alzheimers-disease.html#ixzz2HdLZbRjc

[Iowanian]

Usually do.

This year I didn't...got the flu.

[Brock]

yup

[whoman69]

Free flu shot from my company.

[displacedinMN]

I rarely get sick but I do get a flu shot because of my job .teachers are immune to almost anything but you cannot be too protected around some students

[Cmd'r&Chief]

Don't get the shot. Still don't get sick. I think if I started getting the flu shot, it would jack up my natural immunity.

[Jenson71]

I hardly ever get sick. If I do, its just a minor cold that lasts a couple days.

I've never had a flu shot, and never will. I don't trust the shit they put in it.

Do you know what's in it? It's the flu.

[Floridafan]

Do you know what's in it? It's the flu.

Plus all the chemicals known to be the highest heavy metal toxins to the human brain.

[seclark]

I think the weed is a good immune system booster or something. I didn't start smoking weed until about 4 years ago. The only time I've been ill (fever) in the last 4 years was when I moved to boston and went without weed for several months.

Before weed, I used to sick at least once a year with a fever or bronchitis, strep throat, tonsilitus, etc. At least once a year and that was when I never smoked weed.

I've never been sick when I smoke weed daily, not once. A common cold sometimes but it usually clears up within a day or 2 and never had a fever or anything like that.

There's something to it man...

Never had a flu shot, but I coughed up a goober with 2 roaches in it yesterday.
Sec

[SLAG]

Nope

Vaccine Free is the way to be

[Floridafan]

SHOULD YOU GET THE FLU SHOT?
By Dr Sherri Tenpenny
www.nmaseminars.com
http://www.redflagsweekly.com/conferences/vaccines/nov24_Tenpenny.html

News reports have been flooding us with articles warning that the impending
flu season may be the worst in years. Even though it is difficult to
separate the facts from the hype, a close evaluation of the flu vaccine
will reveal that serious questions must be raised about the recommendations
that are routinely touted, namely high efficacy with little risk. Anyone
considering a flu shot should become informed about the substances coming
through that needle, and should be determined to investigate the safety and
efficacy issues that are still unresolved.

The vaccine virus
Each year, a new vaccine is developed that contains three different viruses
(one influenza B and two influenza A strains). CDC officials select the new
viruses based on which viruses were prevalent during the flu season in
China and Australia the previous year. The CDC admits that the viruses
selected for the new vaccine are chosen on the basis of an "educated
guess." [i]

What's in a flu shot?
The influenza virus is grown in "specific pathogen-free" (SPF) eggs. Eggs
are tested for a variety of agents-usually between 23 and 31-to confirm the
absence of those specific pathogens. Laboratories limit the number of
agents that are screened due to the shear abundance of potential viruses
and/or bacteria to choose from. In addition, screening for every potential
agent would be cost prohibitive.[ii] If none of the tested agents are
detected, the vaccine is reported as "pathogen free."

However, it should be understood that there is a distinct difference
between "pathogen free" and "specific pathogen-free." In its July 1996
report, the Institute of Medicine acknowledged that "although it is not
possible to produce a completely uncontaminated animal, it is possible to
produce an animal [or egg] certified to be free of specific
pathogens."[iii] Viruses that are harmless to their animal host, however,
may be potentially harmful to humans.

During the manufacturing process, antibiotics (neomycin, polymyxin B and
gentamicin) are added to eliminate stray bacteria found in the mixture. The
final solution can contain the following additives in any combination:
Triton X-100 (a detergent); polysorbate 80 (a potential carcinogen);
gelatin; formaldehyde; and residual egg proteins. In addition, many of the
influenza vaccines still contain thimerosal as a preservative. Thimerosal
(mercury) is being investigated for its link to brain injury and autoimmune
disease.

Does the flu shot protect?
There are no guarantees that the influenza viruses selected for the vaccine
will be the identical strains circulating during a given flu season. In
fact, it has recently been announced that this year's flu vaccine does not
include the strain that is being reported by doctors in the community
called the "A Fujian" strain. Outbreaks have been reported in Texas,
Colorado and elsewhere[iv] that involve strains that do not match the
current flu vaccine. CDC tests have confirmed that more than 80 per cent of
the 55 strains of influenza virus isolated thus far are the A Fujian
strain. Even so, the CDC still maintains that the current vaccine could
provide cross-protection against the new variant, but the fact is, no one
knows for sure.

Moreover, the majority of illnesses characterized by fever, fatigue, cough
and aching muscles are not caused by the influenza virus. Non-influenza
viruses (e.g., rhinoviruses respiratory syncytial virus [RSV],
adenoviruses, and parainfluenza viruses) can cause symptoms referred to
influenza-like illnesses (ILI). Certain bacteria, such as Legionella spp.,
Chlamydia pneumoniae, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, and Streptococcus pneumoniae,
have been documented as the causes of ILI.[v]

Notably, these microbes are not part of the flu vaccine. Unless an
organism's antigen is contained within the vaccine, there is no protection
conferred by the vaccine. It is estimated that most adults will average 1-3
episodes of ILI, and most children will average 3-6 episodes. The CDC also
admits that "many persons who have been vaccinated against influenza can
still get the flu"[vi]

Targeting the elderly
The flu vaccine is generally recommended for persons aged 65 and older, and
those with medical conditions who could experience serious complications
from the flu. Medical journals report broad differences in effectiveness
for the elderly, ranging from 0 to 85%.
The CDC states that 90% of deaths from influenza occur among the elderly.
Considering that nearly 65% of all deaths (from any cause) occur in this
age group, it is nearly impossible to prove that flu shots significantly
increase life expectancy in this group. The truth is that most people-young
and old-will weather a bout of the flu without hospitalization or
complications.

A serious concern: Alzheimer's Disesase
Hugh Fudenberg, MD, an immunogeneticist and biologist with nearly 850
papers published in peer review journals, has reported that if an
individual had five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years
studied), his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is ten times
higher than if they had zero, one, or two shots.[vii]

Dr. Boyd Haley, Professor and Chair of the Department of Chemistry at the
University of Kentucky, Lexington has done extensive research in the area
of mercury toxicity and the brain. Haley's research has established a
likely connection between mercury toxicity and Alzheimer's disease. [viii]
In a paper published in collaboration with researchers at University of
Calgary, Haley stated that "seven of the characteristic markers that we
look for to distinguish Alzheimer's disease can be produced in normal brain
tissues, or cultures of neurons, by the addition of extremely low levels of
mercury."[ix]

Does this prove that the mercury contained in the influenza shot can be
directly linked to Alzheimer's? No, absolutely not. But further research in
this area is critically needed because the absence of proof is not the
"proof of absence."[x]

Flu vaccine now for children
The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) adopted a
resolution effective March 1, 2003 that expanded the use of the influenza
vaccine to include children aged 6-23 months. The recommendations also
included vaccinating those aged 2 to 18 years who live in households
containing children younger than 2 years of age.[xi]

The flu vaccine most commonly given to children is Fluzone>, a trivalent
vaccine grown in chicken eggs. Harvested with formaldehyde and containing
the recommended ratio of 15 ug of each of the three prototype viral
strains, each dose of Fluzone> also contains 25 ug of mercury.[xii] The new
CDC recommendations include giving the influenza vaccine to children
beginning at six months of age and then annually, for the rest of their
lives. Children less than age 9 receiving their first flu shot, two doses
of vaccine are recommended, with a minimum interval of one month between
the two doses. However, the CDC does not provide a direct reference to
substantiate this recommendation.[xiii]

On June 17, 2003, the FDA approved an intranasal influenza vaccine for use
in healthy persons aged 5-49 years. Flumist> is a live-virus vaccine that
can cause a litany of problems. (for further information on FluMist)

Alternatives?
If you choose not to receive the flu shot, have a discussion with your
doctor regarding other options. However, some simple and possibly quite
effective things you can do for yourself to prevent the flu include: 1)
avoid white sugar;[xiv] 2) exercise regularly; 3) get adequate sleep; 4)
eat a healthy diet, omitting trans-fats; 5) drink plenty of purified water
daily and 6) wash your hands. A common way people contract viral illnesses
is by rubbing their nose or their eyes after their hands have been
contaminated with a virus. The CDC states, "the most important thing you
can do to keep from getting sick is to wash your hands."[xv]

We are so used to taking medications-for prevention and treatment-that it
is difficult to comprehend that these modest recommendations are really the
most powerful ways to minimize the likelihood of getting the flu.

Making the decision
You may decide to consult a physician who is schooled in alternative
medicine to assess a variety of options for you and your family. What is
most important, in the end, is to become as informed as possible regarding
your options for keeping healthy and avoiding the flu.

REFERENCES
[i] Sabin, Russel and Reynolds. Breakdowns Mar Flu Shot Program Production,
distribution delays raise fears of nation vulnerable to epidemic. San
Francisco Chronicle. Feb. 25, 2001
[ii] Charles River Laboratories, A Laboratory Animal Health Monitoring
Program: Rationale and Development,' (Winter 1990); Source: Internet address
[iii] Institute of Medicine Press Release: Federal Guidelines Needed to
Ensure Safety in Animal-to-Human Organ Transplants. July 17, 1996.
[iv]CBS: The Associated Press. CDC Says Flu Season Is Going Strong in Parts
of U.S., Vaccine Doesn't Match Strain Doctors See.
[v] MMWR. November 9, 2001 / 50(44);984-6
[vi] MMWR Nov. 9, 2001/50(44); 984-6
[vii] Hugh Fudenberg, MD, is Founder and Director of Research, Neurolmmuno
Therapeutic Research Foundation. Information from Dr. Hugh Fudenberg came
from transcribed notes of Dr. Fudenberg's speech at the NVIC International
Vaccine Conference, Arlington, VA September, 1997. Quoted with permission.
[viii] The Relationship of Toxic Effects of Mercury to Exacerbation of the
Medical Condition Classified as Alzheimer's Disease by Boyd E. Haley, PhD.
[ix] NeuroReport, 12(4):733-737, 2001
[x] http://www.testfoundation.org/
[xi] MMWR. 2002;51[RR-3]:1-31
[xii] Package insert. Influenza Virus VaccineFluzone® 2003 - 2004 Formula
[xiii] MMWR. 2002: 51 [RR-3], pg. 19
[xiv] All forms of refined sugar depress white blood cells' ability to
destroy bacteria. See Sanchez A, et al. Role of sugars in human
neutrophilic phagocytosis. Am J Clin Nutr 1973;26:1180.
[xv]CDC-Handwashing: An ounce of prevention keeps the germs away.

[Buck]

I work for the state hospital - they came around to our offices to give us flu shots back in October.

.

[crossbow]

No but I wash my hands with antibacterial soap. During the flu season, I drink grape juice to keep the germs in my system down.

[Brock]

LOL, the Jenny McCarthy science crew is out in force.

[CrazyPhuD]

The primary study linking Alzheimer's with the flu vaccine was conducted by Dr. Hugh Fudenberg, MD, an immunogeneticist and biologist with nearly 850 papers published in peer review journals. According to his findings, individuals who received "Five consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied), his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's disease is 10 times higher than if they had zero, one, or two shots."
In other words, an accumulation of Thimerosal in a person's system might increase her overall risk of Alzheimer's disease, said Dr. Fudenberg at an international vaccine conference, in Arlington, Virginia in 1997.
More questions on the safety of the vaccine's ingredient were raised in a study published by Dr. Boyd Haley in collaboration with researchers at the University of Calgary. Dr. Haley stated that "seven of the characteristic markers that we look for to distinguish Alzheimer's disease can be produced in normal brain tissues, or cultures of neurons, by the addition of extremely low levels of mercury." (See Resources)

Read more: Flu Shots & Alzheimer's Disease | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5409913_flu-shots-alzheimers-disease.html#ixzz2HdLZbRjc

Ummm....honestly I'm no big fan of objectivity of wikipedia...but I would trust is miles over ehow where people are paid to write articles with the greatest reward for articles that are linked often(to raise ehow's search rankings). Hence inspiring controversy is rewarded.

A limited quantity of flu vaccines that do not contain Thimerosal is released annually, however these are difficult to obtain and are used up quickly by the public.

looking at the FDA, 5 of 9 of the formalizations of the flu vaccine contain no Thimerosal, that implies them being difficult to obtain is questionable.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t2

Really most credible sources debunk most of the concerns with Thimerosal. Even still because of public opinion it's generally getting it's use reduced.

[CrazyPhuD]

The flu vaccine most commonly given to children is Fluzone>, a trivalent
vaccine grown in chicken eggs. Harvested with formaldehyde and containing
the recommended ratio of 15 ug of each of the three prototype viral
strains, each dose of Fluzone> also contains 25 ug of mercury.[xii]

Just FYI in the current FDA listings....

Fluzone (single-dose presentations) Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. 0 0

i.e. zero thimerosal and mercury

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t2

Correction: in the single dose version there is no Thimerosil.

The multi-dose does still have some but that's only used for children under 3..which apparently receive a half dose at a time. It looks like almost all the single dose shots have no Thimerosil...3 of the 4 that do are multi-dose which aren't the general shots

[Bwana]

**** no.

This

[BigRedChief]

My first year of residency in hospitals, I was sick all year. After that, I rarely get colds or flu. Missed 3-5 days of work in 20 years since.

No way I'm getting the flu intentionally injected into me.

[CrazyPhuD]

So yea it looks like this year if you get any single shot flu vaccine other than FluLaval, you're not getting any Thimerosal.

Just FYI for those who are thinking of getting on now. I believe the general rule is the you need 14 days to reach full effectiveness. I.e. you're still vulnerable until the two weeks have passed.

[prhom]

Plus all the chemicals known to be the highest heavy metal toxins to the human brain.

So you must not eat any seafood either, you know, because of the mercury content.

[CrazyPhuD]

My first year of residency in hospitals, I was sick all year. After that, I rarely get colds or flu. Missed 3-5 days of work in 20 years since.

No way I'm getting the flu intentionally injected into me.

Heh now that's funny and makes sense. As a kid I remember getting sick pretty regularly. But my Dad was a practicing MD. As an adult I really don't remember many times I got sick. Gotta love hospitals to collect germs and build your immunities all at once...even if it sucked that first year.

[MahiMike]

Hell no! They're not gonna infect me!

[Bump]

So you must not eat any seafood either, you know, because of the mercury content.

you aren't ingesting 25x the toxic level when eating a fish dinner

[CrazyPhuD]

you aren't ingesting 25x the toxic level when eating a fish dinner

you do when you eat this guy!:p

http://www.doletown.com/simpsons/random/blinkydead.gif

[Cephalic Trauma]

OP:
"Do you get the flu shot? Cuz I don't but some people do. I hate all the chemicals, and I will continue to spew bull **** claims with no scientific evidence. Oh, and the government is out to get you."

:rolleyes:

[Cephalic Trauma]

And ROFL at the guy who posted the article written by the token doctor who is providing off-base advice to gain notoriety. People like that give the profession a bad name.

[LiveSteam]

Fuck no.. I don't wear tampons either if that was your next question.

LMAO

[Chief Roundup]

Never have had one. No reason to start now.

[prhom]

you aren't ingesting 25x the toxic level when eating a fish dinner

Toxic level for what? Surely you realize that the small dose of vaccine wouldn't contain very much mercury by weight. The issue with mercury is that it builds up in the body over time. It's not the concentration that matters, it's the total amount.

[DaneMcCloud]

JFC.

The "Flu Shot" doesn't protect you from getting "the flu". It protects you against one deadly strain of influenza. That's it. ONE STRAIN.

If you're exposed to that particular strain and your body can't fight it, you're likely dead. It's particularly deadly for children under five and people over 60 years old.

If you take the shot and you become sick, it's not the vaccine that makes you sick, it's carrier that they wrap the vaccine in. It won't last more than 24 hours and is an allergic reaction.

It's available in spray form and doesn't contain the eggs, etc. that are necessary for the shot.

[cdcox]

Shit no. Flu gets a cdcox shot.

[ghak99]

If I've had one it was prior to my memory or knowledge, but I've been sick 3 times in the last month after going years of nothing more than a sore throat. This current round has me considering just giving up and kicking the bucket.

If I find out which evil bitch put this curse on me, you might read about a mysterious disappearance in the paper.

[Imon Yourside]

If I've had one it was prior to my memory or knowledge, but I've been sick 3 times in the last month after going years of nothing more than a sore throat. This current round has me considering just giving up and kicking the bucket.

If I find out which evil bitch put this curse on me, you might read about a mysterious disappearance in the paper.

Go watch 12 monkeys and get back with us...and NO i've never had the flu shot and won't ever.

[ghak99]

Go watch 12 monkeys and get back with us...and NO i've never had the flu shot and won't ever.

You could be on to something... The last one was pretty freaking crazy and very well could have been from the future.

Or past.

Or ****ing Pluto.

[crazycoffey]

I have to, army makes us. I've gotten out of it a few years in a row, but last year they tightened my loophole, giggity. So I've had it three times in the last 7 years

[CrazyPhuD]

I have to, army makes us. I've gotten out of it a few years in a row, but last year they tightened my loophole, giggity. So I've had it three times in the last 7 years

So that's what they're calling it in the barracks these days!:eek:

[007]

nope

[wazu]

Screw that. I take my REAL flu like a MAN.

[R8RFAN]

Back in 1991 My wifes Grandmother took a flu shot and a few weeks later got Guillain-Barre syndrome and has been in a wheelchair ever since... I have taken a flu shot but not in many years

[Phobia]

I don't take a flu shot but it's mostly because I have an incredibly strong immune system, not because my tin-foil hat is too snug.

[CoMoChief]

The flu shot GIVES you the flu...it puts the virus in your system and then your body fights it off. So no...I've never gotten the flu shot...and to be honest I haven't had the flu in about 6-7 yrs.

[PhillyChiefFan]

The flu shot GIVES you the flu...it puts the virus in your system and then your body fights it off. So no...I've never gotten the flu shot...and to be honest I haven't had the flu in about 6-7 yrs.

Last time I got a flu shot was during college at KState...I got the flu 2 weeks later and laid in bed for 3 days.

[okoye35chiefs]

never had a flu shot and just got over the flu... 1st time I have ever gotten the flu... yes I live close to Boston...

[bevischief]

Hell no.
Go watch "The exploding Autoimmune Epidemic" by Dr Tent on Youtube.

[Dartgod]

Hell no. I don't do flu shots and I don't go to the doctors for antibiotics every time I get the sniffles.

It is my personal opinion that over-medicating weakens your immune system. I rarely get colds and if I do, they are minor compared to everyone else and I haven't had the flu since i don't know when.

[phisherman]

i exercise, eat right and wash my hands regularly. i get a cold about once a year but haven't gotten the flu since i was living in the dorms in college.

[Kerberos]

My chiropractor is a big proponent of holistic medicine and has the same concerns as some of you about the mercury and other things in the flu vaccine.

He is pretty kewl in the fact that he won't mention a thing unless you ask the question.

Well I asked the question.

He has a lot of insight into how they really started pushing the flu shots 20+ years ago for the elderly and since that time he says there is data to prove that in the last 10+ years things like dimentia have really attacked our seniors and that there is a correlation between the mercury and other things in the vaccine that could be catalyst to dimentia and other mental issues.

Not say he is right or wrong ....... but it does make one think about what our medical community is doing to us as a whole.

We have some of the greatest medical capabilities on the planet and yet we are one of the sickest people as a whole. We have health insurance that does not pay for health... it pays for sick. If it paid for health it would cover our gym memberships and pay for healthy foods and things that would keep us on top of our game. Yes my inusrance pays 100% for preventative care.... but just what does that cover?????? (I will have to go and look it up)

I really enjoy listening to this guy speak because usually he makes a lot of sense. And with my weekly chiropractic adjustments and 5 days a week at the gym I haven't felt this good in 20 years.


(BTW: Yes I got a flu shot before I talked to him. I may never get one again.)

[ptlyon]

The flu shot is a form of mind control in minor doses to dumb down society by the government so they can do whatever they want & blow smoke up our asses into believing what they do is good for us.

DON'T DO IT!

[Canofbier]

I'm not going to get into a long argument about the societal conspiracy against vaccines in this country, but I will say that it's silly to think that public health officials are pushing vaccines in some scheme to rip you off. That field pays like shit (I studied it in college in addition to my engineering degree), and you don't get into it unless you've got a personal interest in improving the general health of the country/world.

The evidence against vaccines in general is flimsy at best, at least for now. It's a subject that merits continued monitoring and research, sure, but the "movement" against vaccines isn't generally supported by reputable scientific research.

Oh, and I haven't gotten the flu shot in any of the last few years, but (like Phobia) it's because I have a pretty strong immune system and I don't tend to get sick often or for long. Vaccination against things like influenza is most important for kids and the elderly, less so for healthy adults.

[jidar]

Hell no. I don't do flu shots and I don't go to the doctors for antibiotics every time I get the sniffles.

It is my personal opinion that over-medicating weakens your immune system. I rarely get colds and if I do, they are minor compared to everyone else and I haven't had the flu since i don't know when.

Why would it weaken your immune system?

[Dartgod]

Why would it weaken your immune system?

I'd rather let my body fight off nasty intruders on it's own than get outside help. I believe that makes my immune system stronger.

Again, this is my (probably misguided) opinion and not based on any fact.

[Brock]

I'd rather let my body fight off nasty intruders on it's own than get outside help. I believe that makes my immune system stronger.

Again, this is my (probably misguided) opinion and not based on any fact.

Getting sick does make your immune system stronger. The flu vaccine does the same thing without making you sick.

[Floridafan]

I suppose there are some of you that believe the polio vaccine cured polio. If so, do some research and see what happened to the spinal meningitis numbers in children the years following the start of mass vaccines. To those to lazy, they skyrocketed. Reason? The virus mutated, got stronger and attacked the CNS. If you think the govt. and their BS articles written by "scientists" bought and paid for, are accurate, I have some waterfront property to sell you, along with a bridge. I know you believe the govt, is always doing whats best for you cause they care so much, right? Getta a clue.

I have numerous articles written by referred journals that show a large number of these so called scientific researchers are "paid" researchers to give them the results they want, not the truth. If you believe they wouldn't do that you are more than naive, your just dumb and probably believe that Obama is in DC looking out for you and your best interests.

[jiveturkey]

I haven't had anything more than a minor cold in the last 10 years so I don't bother with the flu shot.

I'm not against it, I just haven't felt a need to get one.

[Canofbier]

I suppose there are some of you that believe the polio vaccine cured polio. If so, do some research and see what happened to the spinal meningitis numbers in children the years following the start of mass vaccines. To those to lazy, they skyrocketed. Reason? The virus mutated, got stronger and attacked the CNS. If you think the govt. and their BS articles written by "scientists" bought and paid for, are accurate, I have some waterfront property to sell you, along with a bridge. I know you believe the govt, is always doing whats best for you cause they care so much, right? Getta a clue.

I have numerous articles written by referred journals that show a large number of these so called scientific researchers are "paid" researchers to give them the results they want, not the truth. If you believe they wouldn't do that you are more than naive, your just dumb and probably believe that Obama is in DC looking out for you and your best interests.

Conspiracy logic at its best. What's the excuse for the smallpox eradication, then? ASTHMA NUMBERS HAVE SKYROCKETED IN RECENT YEARS, COINCIDENCE?

[ptlyon]

Conspiracy logic at its best. What's the excuse for the smallpox eradication, then? ASTHMA NUMBERS HAVE SKYROCKETED IN RECENT YEARS, COINCIDENCE?

Just shut up & eat your fiber!

(sorry, had to do it)

[Iowanian]

I wish they'd make a vaccination for rotovirus.

Having a kid or two involved in a barf-o-rama every thursday night for a month gets old.

How does a 30lb kid barf the volume of a 400lb man who just drank a case of beer and ate at a buffet?

[Iowanian]

Washing your hands and using germ-x several times per day this time of year is as likely to keep you healthy as anything else you do.

[R8RFAN]

Keep your hands away from your face and nose....

[ptlyon]

Keep your hands away from your face and nose....

Johnny! Don't put that finger in your ear! You don't know where it's been!

[Dartgod]

Getting sick does make your immune system stronger. The flu vaccine does the same thing without making you sick.

But if I'm exposed to the flu bug and do not contract the flu (my own immune system fought it off), did I not make my immune system stronger on its own?

[loochy]

But if I'm exposed to the flu bug and do not contract the flu (my own immune system fought it off), did I not make my immune system stronger on its own?

I wouldn't say that you made your immune system stronger....it's more like your immune system is already strong enough because it didn't let the flu virus take hold and multiply.

[buddha]

Seems like this flu season is pretty bad so far. Especially here in Boston. All I see on the news is how everyone should get a flu shot.

I have never had a flu shot, there's all sorts of chemical shit that I don't want in my body, the thimerosal (mercury), aluminum and other shit. I don't trust it for a second.

I've never had a flu shot and I haven't had the flu since....I can't even remember when.

I know I know, I'm a batshit crazy dumbass for not trusting it, after all the government tells us we should take it!!


I don't know why, but the years I have gotten flu shots, I get sick more often. It just doesn't work well for me, so I haven't had one in five years. Honestly, I have had a few head colds during that time, but I haven't had the flu once.

[Dartgod]

I wouldn't say that you made your immune system stronger....it's more like your immune system is already strong enough because it didn't let the flu virus take hold and multiply.

My immune system strong like bull.

[Dartgod]

Of course, now that I've made such a big deal about my strong immune system, I expect to come down with a killer cold or flu that will lay me up for days.

[journeyscarab]

No and I rarely get the flu. Maybe the seasonal cold but not full blown influenza. Now I'm cursed.

[Floridafan]

Conspiracy logic at its best. What's the excuse for the smallpox eradication, then? ASTHMA NUMBERS HAVE SKYROCKETED IN RECENT YEARS, COINCIDENCE?

First I would like to say that I do not post to cause an argument, but to cause people to think outside the box as it were and make intelligent decisions with something as important as ones health. I have made my choices in my life and have been very fortunate. I raised four children who have never been sick. They are 37, 34, 29 and 27 and never been sick, ever. They have never had a shot of any kind in their lives. Their bodies know what to do because they have been raised naturally with a strong belief that the body knows what to do considering they started out as two half dead germ cells, the sperm and the ovum. I believe our Creator does not make junk and the human body needs no help, just no interference. I am by no means telling you what to do, just sharing my experience. You must ask yourself how is what you've been doing working for you? If you or your family is sick a lot maybe it's time for a change? Now to your comments:

Ever consider all the crap that's in the shots and foods that kids years ago didn't get? Consider that maybe, just maybe they have poisoned children and therefore all these new conditions? (Because of weakened immune systems)

Years ago there was not the peanut allergy where a small ingestion of anything with peanuts can cause a child's death. Asthma through the roof. Autism rates are rising at an alarming rate. Used to be one in ten thousand and now one in eighty nine? What changed? Did our bodies forget how to make healthy children? Or could it be we are being poisoned all in the name of science?

As far as smallpox I will paste this article from those much more enlightened on that specific disease than me.

WHO SMALLPOX ERADICATION SUCCESS RECONSIDERED--Raymond Obosawin MD

Although smallpox is apparently now accorded to the history books, it will be necessary to re-examine the issue of this disease having been universally eradicated, with particular reference to the WHO eradication campaign. An honest look at this question is of considerable importance, as the current worldwide UCI-EPI program gains much of its legitimacy and inspiration from this widely acclaimed success story.

A strong challenge to this now popular view, is reflected in the post-campaign findings of medical researchers like Buttram and Hoffman:

Most people probably credit the smallpox vaccine with playing the major role in recent eradication of smallpox throughout the world, but let us examine the facts. In the article 'Vaccines a Future in Question,' statistics showed that less than 10 percent of children in developing countries have received vaccines.



They went on to comment that with this level of coverage, the WHO campaign was not a real factor in the eradication. Data obtained in their broad based research also led them to conclude that "mass smallpox vaccination was not necessary for the eradication of smallpox.110

In further examining this question from a longer historical perspective, it became readily apparent that the WHO claim did not at all square with the earlier data, i.e., historical smallpox eradication efforts. If we go back as far as the last century, we discover that Creighton's independent research findings as published in the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, strongly contradict the effectiveness of mass smallpox immunization programs. A few revealing excerpts follow:

. . . in Bavaria in 1871 of 30,742 cases 29,429 were in vaccinated persons, or 95.7 percent.
Notwithstanding the fact that Prussia was the best re-vaccinated country in Europe, its mortality from smallpox in the epidemic of 1871 was higher (69,839) than any other Northern state.
According to a competent statistician (A. Vogt), the death-rate from smallpox in the German army, in which all recruits are re-vaccinated, was 60 percent more than among the civil population of the same age . . . although re-vaccination is not obligatory among the latter.
It is often alleged that the unvaccinated are so much inflammable material in the midst of the community, and that smallpox begins among them and gathers force so that it sweeps even the vaccinated before it. Inquiry into the facts has shown that at Cologne in 1870 the first unvaccinated person attacked by smallpox was the 174th in order of time, at Bonn the same year the 42d, and at Liegnitz in 1871 the 225th.111


As we move on into the earlier part of this century we find the same dismal picture of increased susceptibility correlated with increased vaccination coverage. Dettman and Kalokerinos describe a visit they paid to the Philippines about 15 years ago:

. . . We were fortunate enough to address their own medical (and) health officials where we reminded them of the incidence of smallpox in formerly "immunized" Filipinos. We invited them to consult their own medical records and asked them to correct us if our own facts and figures disagreed. No such correction has been forthcoming, and we can only conclude that between 1918-1919 there were 112,549 cases of smallpox notified, with 60,855 deaths. Systematic (mass) vaccination started in 1905, and since its introduction case mortality increased alarmingly. Their own records comment that "The mortality is hardly explainable." 112



Speaking at a 1973 environmental conference in Brussels, Professor George Dick admitted that in recent decades, 75 percent of those that have contracted smallpox in Britain, have had prior a history of vaccination. In that "only 40%" of children were vaccinated (and at most 10 percent of adults), such figures clearly indicate that the vaccinated--as in the much earlier historical record--continue to show a higher tendency to contract the disease. Dick also admitted that smallpox had been eradicated in certain tropical countries without mass vaccination.113 (Table VIII reveals that in the 16 year period preceding the year the WHO eradication campaign was launched--38 additional countries had ceased to report any smallpox cases.)114

A. Hutchison writing in the Journal of the Royal Society in 1974, referred to the smallpox vaccines "lack of potency" and the inadequacies of other measures for containment, in his words, "I have given details of the various outbreaks of smallpox in Britain and where they were diagnosed. These clearly indicate that the (preventive) measures are most ineffective.115

An article in the New Scientist indicates that "The smallpox family of viruses is genetically unstable," and that new viral strains which threaten the "WHO smallpox eradication programme, could emerge anywhere.116 It is thus of interest that in a 1980 article in the Australasian Nurses Journal, Dettman and Kalokerinos pointed out that electron-microscopy cannot distinguish between the various "poxviruses.117 (According to D, de Saving of IDRC, as of 1990 DNA sequencing can make the distinquishingment. What is not known though, is whether this has any beating on the reporting of the various "pox" diseases worldwide.) This fact led them to raise a vitally significant question "as to whether smallpox may be declared conquered, (it's estimated that only 10 percent of the world population actually received the vaccine) with the possibility of it masquerading under the guise of a similar pox." Their line of evidence and reasoning is summarily stated:

. . . we claim that if the evidence is honestly evaluated that smallpox has actually been prolonged and that the so called protective vaccinations actually put the recipient at risk from . . . the disease itself. Authorities now realize this and the 'top world' countries are making vociferous protests about third world countries continuing use of smallpox vaccination because (a) suddenly it has become recognized that it is an extremely dangerous procedure, (To give some idea of the vaccine's dangers, it was reported--in the late sixties--that annually, roughly 3,000 children were experiencing varying degrees of brain damage due to the smallpox vaccine; and according to G. Kiftel in 1967, smallpox vaccination damaged the hearing of 3,296 children in West Germany, of which 71 became totally deaf.117) and (b) it has now been conquered. The ultimate in ingenuity. . . .118



In turning to recognized textbooks on human virology and vertebrate viruses we find that attention has been given since 1970 to a disease called "monkeypox," which is said to be "clinically indistinguishable from smallpox." Cases of this disease have been found in Zaire, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Liberia, and Sierra Leone (by May 1983, 101 cases have been reported). It is observed that " . . . the existence of a virus that can cause clinical smallpox is disturbing, and the situation is being closely monitored."119 (For a highly detailed account of the history of this disease and efforts to eradicate it, which further corroborates these observations, see, Razzell P., The Conquest of Smallpox, Caliban Books, United Kingdom, 1977.)

[Brock]

How come people will use CDC statistics about autism, but won't believe the CDC when they say vaccinating doesn't cause autism?

[loochy]

All of this vaccination and the Chiefs STILL don't have a decent QB? Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

[loochy]

How come people will use CDC statistics about autism, but won't believe the CDC when they say vaccinating doesn't cause autism?

ITS ONLY FALSE WHEN ITS NOT A PART OF MY AGENDA

[Rausch]

NO.

I was deadly sick at 22. High fever, hallucinations, mucous flowing from every hole in my face.

Since then I've had nothing. I'm 37 ( fuck you!) now and despite bad knees and shoulders I've been fine for years...

[Floridafan]

ITS ONLY FALSE WHEN ITS NOT A PART OF MY AGENDA

I sir have no agenda and do you honestly believe that the CDC does not have an agenda? I can share with you articles from peer reviewed refereed journals that show that many, not all, researchers give the answers that they are being paid to give. I have two such articles from Harvard researchers no less. All I am saying is don't take the governments word for it. They have an agenda and your health is not their priority.

By the way if you think I have an agenda, what do you think it is? I am retired in Florida after 37 years in healthcare. More than likely I will never meet anyone on this board, so what could my agenda be? Maybe I just have a lot of experience in this area and wish to share it to get people to think on their own and not like a robot and accept the line being put forth by Big Pharma.

Blessings and good health to you all.

[bevischief]

You don't want to start on this subject...

[loochy]

I sir have no agenda and do you honestly believe that the CDC does not have an agenda? I can share with you articles from peer reviewed refereed journals that show that many, not all, researchers give the answers that they are being paid to give. I have two such articles from Harvard researchers no less. All I am saying is don't take the governments word for it. They have an agenda and your health is not their priority.

Oh, I know that our health is not their priority. However, Brock's point was kind of funny...

[Easy 6]

No thanks, dont want it, dont need it.

[Stewie]

JFC.

The "Flu Shot" doesn't protect you from getting "the flu". It protects you against one deadly strain of influenza. That's it. ONE STRAIN.


This is not true.

The flu shot this year is for three strains, which is typical. H1N1, H3N2 (the stuff that's running rampant and particularly nasty) and another Type B influenza.

[BWillie]

Never get it and never will. Horrible chemicals in it and the flu stran in it isn't typically the stran for that year. So basically it's worthless.

How come most doctors recommend that you get a flu shot then?

I have never had one until this year. My employer paid for all of them to get them for free so I got one this year. I haven't got the flu since I was a little kid though so not sure how much it makes a difference for me.

[Floridafan]

How come people will use CDC statistics about autism, but won't believe the CDC when they say vaccinating doesn't cause autism?

I only have a few questions for you. Have you ever asked your doctor for the box the vaccine came in and read the ingredients? I had a couple of patients who swore they were not getting heavy metals in their shots ask the doctor for the box and believe it or not one was given the actual box and the other a copy of the ingredients. Both patients and doctors were shocked to see heavy metals in the shots.

Second, why did they make manufactures stop selling aluminum cookware? they discovered that it was causing severe brain damage after years of use. Any heavy metal will. So they tell you not to ingest mercury or aluminum in fish, which passes through your digestive track with all the gastric acid etc, but think it is safe to inject directly into a very young child's blood stream? Which by the way bypasses all the child's natural immunity barriers. Come on that's just common sense isn't it?

One more thing why is it that children who have never been vaccinated have no autism, like mine and the Amish, and those children who are seem to develop it very soon after being vaccinated?

I am not looking to argue with you only asking you to think. Do you trust Big Pharma? Vioxx was blamed for almost 27,000 deaths by sudden cardiac arrest. You think that didn't come up in the trials? of course it did but they hide those lies to get stuff on the market. I will try and find the video from 60 minutes with Mike Wallace where he asked the head of the American Pharmaceutical industry why they gave kids in this country the more dangerous form of a specific vaccine and not use the one they use in Britain and his answer was "that it is much cheaper to pay the millions in lawsuits than to retool the factories. When Mike Wallace almost lost his mind saying "but these are our children" the guy answered, "no, it's business". I will attempt to find it and post it if I can find it.

God Bless you and best of health to you all.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036417_Glaxo_Merck_fraud.html check out this example

[Rausch]

This is not true.

The flu shot this year is for three strains, which is typical. H1N1, H3N2 (the stuff that's running rampant and particularly nasty) and another Type B influenza.

And they don't mutate.

It's guaranteed...

[Brock]

I only have a few questions for you. Have you ever asked your doctor for the box the vaccine came in and read the ingredients? I had a couple of patients who swore they were not getting heavy metals in their shots ask the doctor for the box and believe it or not one was given the actual box and the other a copy of the ingredients. Both patients and doctors were shocked to see heavy metals in the shots.

Second, why did they make manufactures stop selling aluminum cookware? they discovered that it was causing severe brain damage after years of use. Any heavy metal will. So they tell you not to ingest mercury or aluminum in fish, which passes through your digestive track with all the gastric acid etc, but think it is safe to inject directly into a very young child's blood stream? Which by the way bypasses all the child's natural immunity barriers. Come on that's just common sense isn't it?

I've never asked my doctor to see the box my vaccination came in. I don't worry about tiny amounts of heavy metals that may or may not be contained in it.

Manufacturers didn't stop selling aluminum cookware, so your entire second paragraph is based in fallacy.

[loochy]

I only have a few questions for you. Have you ever asked your doctor for the box the vaccine came in and read the ingredients? I had a couple of patients who swore they were not getting heavy metals in their shots ask the doctor for the box and believe it or not one was given the actual box and the other a copy of the ingredients. Both patients and doctors were shocked to see heavy metals in the shots.

Second, why did they make manufactures stop selling aluminum cookware? they discovered that it was causing severe brain damage after years of use. Any heavy metal will. So they tell you not to ingest mercury or aluminum in fish, which passes through your digestive track with all the gastric acid etc, but think it is safe to inject directly into a very young child's blood stream? Which by the way bypasses all the child's natural immunity barriers. Come on that's just common sense isn't it?

One more thing why is it that children who have never been vaccinated have no autism, like mine and the Amish, and those children who are seem to develop it very soon after being vaccinated?

So these "powers" decide that you can't cook with aluminum because it's bad for you, but they put heavy metals in vaccines because it's bad for you?

WTF? They could just let us cook with aluminum and they could put less effort into poisoning the vaccines.

[Stewie]

And they don't mutate.

It's guaranteed...

They do, but that's not usually an issue once flu season starts. The H3N2 flu going around is the exact same strain that went around in 2002-2003.

[loochy]

They do, but that's not usually an issue once flu season starts. The H3N2 flu going around is the exact same strain that went around in 2002-2003.

Exactly. H3N2 is always H3N2.

There ARE other non-prevalent strains and mutations though.

[BWillie]

Keep your hands away from your face and nose....

Just stay away from children. They are dirty dirty little ppl. Rolling around on the floor, touching everything that moves or doesn't move, putting their fingers in their mouth. It seems like ppl who have children or work with children get the flu or get sick 10x times more than ppl who don't.

[htismaqe]

Never used to get the flu shot. Rest of my family always did.

Then one year I got the flu and they didn't.

After 4 days of what I can only call "total paralysis", I've gotten my flu shot ever since.

[Fish]

I sir have no agenda and do you honestly believe that the CDC does not have an agenda? I can share with you articles from peer reviewed refereed journals that show that many, not all, researchers give the answers that they are being paid to give. I have two such articles from Harvard researchers no less. All I am saying is don't take the governments word for it. They have an agenda and your health is not their priority.

By the way if you think I have an agenda, what do you think it is? I am retired in Florida after 37 years in healthcare. More than likely I will never meet anyone on this board, so what could my agenda be? Maybe I just have a lot of experience in this area and wish to share it to get people to think on their own and not like a robot and accept the line being put forth by Big Pharma.

Blessings and good health to you all.

Please quit with the fearmongering. Flu vaccines are not systematically poisoning our populace. Yes some doctors are paid to be biased. But that is not proof that the government is knowingly encouraging civilians to take something harmful. There is no government agenda behind vaccinations. Yes they have used vaccines in the past that had traces of things that could potentially be harmful. But today's vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. That doesn't mean that there are no dangers. Just that the dangers are so unlikely that the benefit outweighs the dangers. And there are plenty of independent sources that verify the safety of these vaccines that are in no way tied to the government.

[Canofbier]

First I would like to say that I do not post to cause an argument, but to cause people to think outside the box as it were and make intelligent decisions with something as important as ones health. I have made my choices in my life and have been very fortunate. I raised four children who have never been sick. They are 37, 34, 29 and 27 and never been sick, ever. They have never had a shot of any kind in their lives. Their bodies know what to do because they have been raised naturally with a strong belief that the body knows what to do considering they started out as two half dead germ cells, the sperm and the ovum. I believe our Creator does not make junk and the human body needs no help, just no interference. I am by no means telling you what to do, just sharing my experience. You must ask yourself how is what you've been doing working for you? If you or your family is sick a lot maybe it's time for a change? Now to your comments:

Ever consider all the crap that's in the shots and foods that kids years ago didn't get? Consider that maybe, just maybe they have poisoned children and therefore all these new conditions? (Because of weakened immune systems)

Years ago there was not the peanut allergy where a small ingestion of anything with peanuts can cause a child's death. Asthma through the roof. Autism rates are rising at an alarming rate. Used to be one in ten thousand and now one in eighty nine? What changed? Did our bodies forget how to make healthy children? Or could it be we are being poisoned all in the name of science?

As far as smallpox I will paste this article from those much more enlightened on that specific disease than me.

I appreciate your point of view; it's never a bad thing to question what you're being told. However, the article you reference is itself referencing studies and quotes from 40 or 50 years ago. As far as I know, there is no valid, recognized case of Smallpox since 1977, thus invalidating many of the claims of "increased Smallpox mortality" claimed by the article you included. Keep in mind, too, that there are records of smallpox from as early as 1350 BC. I have a very hard time believing that the disappearance of smallpox was the result of any sort of natural process.

If it's indeed true that your children have never been sick in their entire lives, then I applaud you for raising them in a healthy environment; I also consider both you and them to be quite lucky. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much legitimate evidence of a "no-vaccine" solution working on a population or world-wide level.

As far as the increased incidences of allergies and asthma: it's difficult to factually deny those trends. However, attributing them to "increased use of vaccinations and medications" without concrete evidence is not only baseless, but potentially destructive to the health of the world. I would support any valid research that proves the status quo wrong, but where is the foundation for that research? The coincidence of the increased incidence of these unfortunate health problems and increased use of vaccines is hardly conclusive without definitive evidence to tie them together, and to spread that message without proof is completely irresponsible.

I'm glad that people like you question what the authorities are putting out as factual evidence, but there is absolutely no proof that the current view of disease is wrong until your counterpoint is made with as much absolute evidence.

[ThaVirus]

All I am saying is don't take the governments word for it. They have an agenda and your health is not their priority.

Yeah, this I can agree with..

I have a question, Floridafan. You said your children have never had a single shot; does that mean you never got them vaccinated for anything as children?

[Rausch]

They do, but that's not usually an issue once flu season starts. The H3N2 flu going around is the exact same strain that went around in 2002-2003.

Am I wrong in assuming that all viruses mutate a very small bit from even person to person?...

[memyselfI]

No. Hell no. The shot makes me sicker than a dog and I end up getting some other strain of the crap anyway.

I don't make my kids get them either. People these days are too gung ho about getting shit injected into their bodies if the government or some Big Pharma or Medical industry says they should.

Like the HPV shot. They tried to pressure me into getting it for my son who is 16. HELLO, that shot is just being introduced in the US and boys his age are the guinea pigs. No thank you. Same for that ridiculous swine flu shot a couple years ago.

Nope.

[Floridafan]

I appreciate your point of view; it's never a bad thing to question what you're being told. However, the article you reference is itself referencing studies and quotes from 40 or 50 years ago. As far as I know, there is no valid, recognized case of Smallpox since 1977, thus invalidating many of the claims of "increased Smallpox mortality" claimed by the article you included. Keep in mind, too, that there are records of smallpox from as early as 1350 BC. I have a very hard time believing that the disappearance of smallpox was the result of any sort of natural process.

If it's indeed true that your children have never been sick in their entire lives, then I applaud you for raising them in a healthy environment; I also consider both you and them to be quite lucky. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much legitimate evidence of a "no-vaccine" solution working on a population or world-wide level.

As far as the increased incidences of allergies and asthma: it's difficult to factually deny those trends. However, attributing them to "increased use of vaccinations and medications" without concrete evidence is not only baseless, but potentially destructive to the health of the world. I would support any valid research that proves the status quo wrong, but where is the foundation for that research? The coincidence of the increased incidence of these unfortunate health problems and increased use of vaccines is hardly conclusive without definitive evidence to tie them together, and to spread that message without proof is completely irresponsible.

I'm glad that people like you question what the authorities are putting out as factual evidence, but there is absolutely no proof that the current view of disease is wrong until your counterpoint is made with as much absolute evidence.

While I appreciate your response I would say, how can you expect to get funding for any kind of research that does not involve a "pharmaceutical answer". It won't happen. That is why you won't find any mainstream research about the dangers, they have a vested interest in only finding a drug related answer therefore no funding.

I would use a good friend of mine as an example. God rest his soul. He was from the KC area and had four Ph. D's in chemistry. Dr. Delta Gier. He left the "scientific world" because he got fed up with being denied funding when he would find answers to major conditions and be denied funding. The reason? They were vitamin based and therefore Big Pharma could not patent the drug and the research so they were not interested. He ended up in the "alternative" health sciences because he found them searching for the truth not just the profit.

I understand why people think the way they do. We are all bombarded with drug commercials all day long and by the time we are old enough to make a decision for ourselves we assume drugs are the answer.

One of the biggest reasons we don't have the mass deaths anymore from disease is we finally figured out simple sanitation. Believe it or not the Jewish Old Testament taught sanitation to the Jews. That is why they were accused many times in history of poisoning the water etc wherever they lived and were punished. They followed Torah and the Goys were too busy pissing upstream and drinking downstream. What I'm saying is sanitation has taken care of many of the dreaded diseases from the past.

As far as the rest of the world, I can't say. Too many children suffer from malnutrition and unsanitary conditions. I do know that there is a chiropractic hospital in Zimbabwe and they are having phenomenal results with AIDS patients there.

While I know I don't have all the answers I know Big Pharma isn't it. Click on the link in my other post and just see the lawsuits brought on by their deceptive ways of doing business. To them its all about profits, not health, it's been shown too many times to be otherwise.

One last thing You said "but there is absolutely no proof that the current view of disease is wrong until your counterpoint is made with as much absolute evidence"

Our current view of disease is the Germ Theory. Why after all this time is it not called the Germ Law? Because it is a theory nothing more. If it were true we would all be dead. Why did only 1/3 of Europe die of Bubonic Plague, 25 million died, 50 million lived. All were exposed so why? It's called immunity. That is why it makes more sense to keep your immunity strong. My children were not lucky, they were taken care of and we built there immunity in early childhood. We also fed them healthy food and kept their bodies functioning properly. Healthy people don't get sick, sick people get sick. We have been taught that if you feel OK you must be healthy. Wrong. symptoms are nothing more than a warning sign, much like the oil light in a car. You don't fix that with tape over the light, you check the oil pan to make sure your wife didn't rip it off going over a concrete stopper in a parking lot. Watch all the drug commercials, they all talk about getting rid of your symptoms not correcting the underlying cause of the disease. Just my opinion.

[ZepSinger]

Never get it and never will. Horrible chemicals in it and the flu stran in it isn't typically the stran for that year. So basically it's worthless.

This.

[Floridafan]

Yeah, this I can agree with..

I have a question, Floridafan. You said your children have never had a single shot; does that mean you never got them vaccinated for anything as children?

Never a shot for any disease process. I do think my oldest son got a pain shot in his leg when he tore it up on a jet ski. They had to clean all the rocks and coral and stuff out and I knew the cause of his pain. His leg was torn up. So I said absolutely to the shot of pain meds. I knew the cause of the problem so it was no problem I knew his body could handle it.

My middle and youngest sons both had to have surgery due to wrestling injuries. One had a torn labrum in his shoulder and the other a severely fractured ankle. Both needed corrective surgery and they got the best. But I knew the cause of the problem.

In answer to the vaccine question, no none of my kids ever had any kind of vaccine for anything. I believe for healthy people don't need it and there are too many side affects for my liking.

[Stewie]

Am I wrong in assuming that all viruses mutate a very small bit from even person to person?...

The mutations are less virulent. That's why it's always the same culprits year after year.

[HC_Chief]

Yes; first time... and I still got the flu.

Unfortunately the vaccine this year was for strains of H1N1 and H1N2; a different strain is going around (ILI?), which, of course, I picked up over Christmas.

[loochy]

Yes; first time... and I still got the flu.

Unfortunately the vaccine this year was for strains of H1N1 and H1N2; a different strain is going around (ILI?), which, of course, I picked up over Christmas.

Well I guess you're done for now.

You might as well face the fact that you'll be autistic and sick with mystery diseases for the rest of your life.

[Floridafan]

I've never asked my doctor to see the box my vaccination came in. I don't worry about tiny amounts of heavy metals that may or may not be contained in it.

Manufacturers didn't stop selling aluminum cookware, so your entire second paragraph is based in fallacy.

The cooking surface is usually covered with some nonstick surface.

It is your choice not to believe that heavy metals cause problems in the human brain. When your in your seventies you might wish you had rethought that choice. Just sayin......

Why risk it?

[Stewie]

Yes; first time... and I still got the flu.

Unfortunately the vaccine this year was for strains of H1N1 and H1N2; a different strain is going around (ILI?), which, of course, I picked up over Christmas.

Unless you got some rogue vaccine, these are the strains covered. H3N2 is what's running rampant.

A/California/7/2009 (H1N1);
A/Victoria/361/2011 (H3N2);
B/Wisconsin/1/2010-like virus (from the B/Yamagata lineage of viruses).

[Rausch]

The mutations are less virulent. That's why it's always the same culprits year after year.

So it's like making a drug that kills all Democrats.

That still leaves a lot of options out there...

[Fish]

While I appreciate your response I would say, how can you expect to get funding for any kind of research that does not involve a "pharmaceutical answer". It won't happen. That is why you won't find any mainstream research about the dangers, they have a vested interest in only finding a drug related answer therefore no funding.

I would use a good friend of mine as an example. God rest his soul. He was from the KC area and had four Ph. D's in chemistry. Dr. Delta Gier. He left the "scientific world" because he got fed up with being denied funding when he would find answers to major conditions and be denied funding. The reason? They were vitamin based and therefore Big Pharma could not patent the drug and the research so they were not interested. He ended up in the "alternative" health sciences because he found them searching for the truth not just the profit.

I understand why people think the way they do. We are all bombarded with drug commercials all day long and by the time we are old enough to make a decision for ourselves we assume drugs are the answer.

One of the biggest reasons we don't have the mass deaths anymore from disease is we finally figured out simple sanitation. Believe it or not the Jewish Old Testament taught sanitation to the Jews. That is why they were accused many times in history of poisoning the water etc wherever they lived and were punished. They followed Torah and the Goys were too busy pissing upstream and drinking downstream. What I'm saying is sanitation has taken care of many of the dreaded diseases from the past.

As far as the rest of the world, I can't say. Too many children suffer from malnutrition and unsanitary conditions. I do know that there is a chiropractic hospital in Zimbabwe and they are having phenomenal results with AIDS patients there.

While I know I don't have all the answers I know Big Pharma isn't it. Click on the link in my other post and just see the lawsuits brought on by their deceptive ways of doing business. To them its all about profits, not health, it's been shown too many times to be otherwise.

One last thing You said "but there is absolutely no proof that the current view of disease is wrong until your counterpoint is made with as much absolute evidence"

Our current view of disease is the Germ Theory. Why after all this time is it not called the Germ Law? Because it is a theory nothing more. If it were true we would all be dead. Why did only 1/3 of Europe die of Bubonic Plague, 25 million died, 50 million lived. All were exposed so why? It's called immunity. That is why it makes more sense to keep your immunity strong. My children were not lucky, they were taken care of and we built there immunity in early childhood. We also fed them healthy food and kept their bodies functioning properly. Healthy people don't get sick, sick people get sick. We have been taught that if you feel OK you must be healthy. Wrong. symptoms are nothing more than a warning sign, much like the oil light in a car. You don't fix that with tape over the light, you check the oil pan to make sure your wife didn't rip it off going over a concrete stopper in a parking lot. Watch all the drug commercials, they all talk about getting rid of your symptoms not correcting the underlying cause of the disease. Just my opinion.

No offense, but you're slipping into a laughable position now. To say there's no funding for actual effective medical research is incredibly ignorant. The pharmaceutical market certainly appreciates their pills that treat symptoms and require continued use. But to say that an actual effective treatment for something important would or could be denied or ignored because Big Pharma can't make as much money is an incredible stretch. The pharmaceutical market couldn't completely control it even if it wanted to.

And in the example with your friend, he didn't get funding because vitamins and other homeopathic items are not regulated. There's an important reason why it's not regulated. Because the entire homeopathic market is full of worthless junk that has never been proven to actually treat any condition. If it actually did work, then it wouldn't be a "Vitamin" or "Supplement". It's not labeled a "Vitamin" because the evil Pharm industry doesn't like it and can't make money on it. It's labeled "Vitamin" because it hasn't shown any actual proof of effectiveness.

Regarding "Germ Theory".. Please learn the difference between a scientific theory and a normal casual theory as it is used outside of the scientific world. They are vastly different. Being labeled as theory does not equate to not being true. Far from it. Scientific theories are explanations to explain what we know to be fact. Building a strong immune system does not depend on avoiding vaccinations. They can certainly be safely combined, and it happens all the time.

[Canofbier]

While I appreciate your response I would say, how can you expect to get funding for any kind of research that does not involve a "pharmaceutical answer". It won't happen. That is why you won't find any mainstream research about the dangers, they have a vested interest in only finding a drug related answer therefore no funding.

I would use a good friend of mine as an example. God rest his soul. He was from the KC area and had four Ph. D's in chemistry. Dr. Delta Gier. He left the "scientific world" because he got fed up with being denied funding when he would find answers to major conditions and be denied funding. The reason? They were vitamin based and therefore Big Pharma could not patent the drug and the research so they were not interested. He ended up in the "alternative" health sciences because he found them searching for the truth not just the profit.

I understand why people think the way they do. We are all bombarded with drug commercials all day long and by the time we are old enough to make a decision for ourselves we assume drugs are the answer.

One of the biggest reasons we don't have the mass deaths anymore from disease is we finally figured out simple sanitation. Believe it or not the Jewish Old Testament taught sanitation to the Jews. That is why they were accused many times in history of poisoning the water etc wherever they lived and were punished. They followed Torah and the Goys were too busy pissing upstream and drinking downstream. What I'm saying is sanitation has taken care of many of the dreaded diseases from the past.

As far as the rest of the world, I can't say. Too many children suffer from malnutrition and unsanitary conditions. I do know that there is a chiropractic hospital in Zimbabwe and they are having phenomenal results with AIDS patients there.

While I know I don't have all the answers I know Big Pharma isn't it. Click on the link in my other post and just see the lawsuits brought on by their deceptive ways of doing business. To them its all about profits, not health, it's been shown too many times to be otherwise.

First of all, you don't have to "educate" me about Jews and their history; I am one. In fact, I find it ironic that you reference the Jews being accused of poisoning the water but ultimately being correct when there are so many people in this thread and the world who are accusing vaccines of poisoning the population without the evidence to support it. It's unfortunate that your friend had the experience he had (and there's no lack of selfish people in the pharmecutical industry) but anecdotes aren't proof of anything, as there are mountains of personal experiences supporting either side of the issue.

My issue with these anti-vaccine "studies" is not only in their lack of support from the professional world, but also their reliance on meaningless anecdotes and arguments based on entirely uncorrelated data. I haven't seen one of these studies yet that uses legitimate scientific method to create their samples to convince me of their lack of bias. Because of that, neither I nor anyone with a scientific background can take their research seriously.

Finally, as great as it is that secondary practices are making life better for AIDS patients in Africa, they're ultimately treating the symptoms and not the disease itself; their patients are doomed to to spread their virus and ultimately die from it until a cure is developed. Until then, the money is best spent researching cures to the virus and preventing its spread as much as possible through promotion of condoms and safe birthing practices for those already infected.

[Brock]

The cooking surface is usually covered with some nonstick surface.

It is your choice not to believe that heavy metals cause problems in the human brain. When your in your seventies you might wish you had rethought that choice. Just sayin......

Why risk it?

Oh, and is the nonstick coating safe? There are people who are hysterical about that too.

I'm sure heavy metals do cause problems, just not in tiny doses. People used to paint their houses with lead and we didn't see the mass amounts of alzheimers and autism you're so worried about.

[Fish]

Oh, and is the nonstick coating safe? There are people who are hysterical about that too.

I'm sure heavy metals do cause problems, just not in tiny doses. People used to paint their houses with lead and we didn't see the mass amounts of alzheimers and autism you're so worried about.

Not to mention, what's the cooking spray can made of? OMG!

[Dartgod]

The cooking surface is usually covered with some nonstick surface.

It is your choice not to believe that heavy metals cause problems in the human brain. When your in your seventies you might wish you had rethought that choice. Just sayin......

Why risk it?

It's not like he'll remember how he got in that condition...or his name.

[Stewie]

For all you mercury (thimerasol) freaks. DON'T EAT FISH!

25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL of vaccine (one dose).

As a comparison, most commercial fish contain an average of 23 micrograms of mercury per 8 ounces of fish.

[HC_Chief]

Well I guess you're done for now.

You might as well face the fact that you'll be autistic and sick with mystery diseases for the rest of your life.

ROFL
I'm definitely a good driver. Yeah....yeah...uh oh, time for Wapner!

[crazycoffey]

Well I guess you're done for now.

You might as well face the fact that you'll be autistic and sick with mystery diseases for the rest of your life.


A friend of my old colliegate room mate published a paper about how that stuff is caused from cell phone use, true story. And it's published so it must be true....

[Floridafan]

No offense, but you're slipping into a laughable position now. To say there's no funding for actual effective medical research is incredibly ignorant. The pharmaceutical market certainly appreciates their pills that treat symptoms and require continued use. But to say that an actual effective treatment for something important would or could be denied or ignored because Big Pharma can't make as much money is an incredible stretch. The pharmaceutical market couldn't completely control it even if it wanted to.

And in the example with your friend, he didn't get funding because vitamins and other homeopathic items are not regulated. There's an important reason why it's not regulated. Because the entire homeopathic market is full of worthless junk that has never been proven to actually treat any condition. If it actually did work, then it wouldn't be a "Vitamin" or "Supplement". It's not labeled a "Vitamin" because the evil Pharm industry doesn't like it and can't make money on it. It's labeled "Vitamin" because it hasn't shown any actual proof of effectiveness.

Regarding "Germ Theory".. Please learn the difference between a scientific theory and a normal casual theory as it is used outside of the scientific world. They are vastly different. Being labeled as theory does not equate to not being true. Far from it. Scientific theories are explanations to explain what we know to be fact. Building a strong immune system does not depend on avoiding vaccinations. They can certainly be safely combined, and it happens all the time.

Having done this for over 40 years I choose not to waste time on a mind that cannot or will not be willing to consider any other train of thought. All I would ask you is this. We as Americans represent approx 5% of the worlds population and take over 80% of the worlds prescription drugs. If Big Pharma were the answer we should rank number one in overall world health and yet we rank around 37th. Despite having more hospitals, nurses, MRI machines etc than the rest of the world.

Question: So hows that workin for ya?

[R8RFAN]

Don't love on Large women that have a fever.

[Floridafan]

It's not like he'll remember how he got in that condition...or his name.

lol so true. I have a mother who was told in 1958 that she would be dead in 1971 and yet we have kept her alive and healthy all those years. We actually practice what we preach. Too each his own.

[Floridafan]

For all you mercury (thimerasol) freaks. DON'T EAT FISH!

25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL of vaccine (one dose).

As a comparison, most commercial fish contain an average of 23 micrograms of mercury per 8 ounces of fish.

Is that wild fish or farmed?

[loochy]

Having done this for over 40 years I choose not to waste time on a mind that cannot or will not be willing to consider any other train of thought. All I would ask you is this. We as Americans represent approx 5% of the worlds population and take over 80% of the worlds prescription drugs. If Big Pharma were the answer we should rank number one in overall world health and yet we rank around 37th. Despite having more hospitals, nurses, MRI machines etc than the rest of the world.

Question: So hows that workin for ya?

Pretty good. I'm in great health and I rarely take anything.

[Floridafan]

Oh, and is the nonstick coating safe? There are people who are hysterical about that too.

I'm sure heavy metals do cause problems, just not in tiny doses. People used to paint their houses with lead and we didn't see the mass amounts of alzheimers and autism you're so worried about.

So you're saying we are not seeing mass amounts of alzheimers and autism now? I must be missing something. Maybe its my mind!

[Floridafan]

Pretty good. I'm in great health and I rarely take anything.

Good choice, that's exactly what I'm saying. How bout the country as a whole?

By the way, what I really care about now that I'm retired is who are we going to end up with at QB? That is the important question.

[Stewie]

Having done this for over 40 years I choose not to waste time on a mind that cannot or will not be willing to consider any other train of thought. All I would ask you is this. We as Americans represent approx 5% of the worlds population and take over 80% of the worlds prescription drugs. If Big Pharma were the answer we should rank number one in overall world health and yet we rank around 37th. Despite having more hospitals, nurses, MRI machines etc than the rest of the world.

Question: So hows that workin for ya?

I discount cholesterol drugs and fancy high blood pressure pills from the 80%. The original old-fashioned BP pill still works amazingly well, it's just doesn't buy lunch for the doctor with pharma dollars.

[Brock]

So you're saying we are not seeing mass amounts of alzheimers and autism now? I must be missing something. Maybe its my mind!

I think you may have missed the point. People used to be much, much, much more exposed to the chemicals you're so hysterical about, but there wasn't mass amounts of alzheimers and autism.

[Stewie]

Is that wild fish or farmed?

Does it matter? I'm pretty sure the fish farmers aren't putting mercury in the water.

My company relocated our Delray, FL division to KS. My equal that moved here was told he could fish all he wanted in the Atlantic waters, but limit eating the fish to once or twice per week because of the mercury.

[loochy]

Is that wild fish or farmed?

It's probably wild. I bet farm raised fish is much lower.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Having done this for over 40 years I choose not to waste time on a mind that cannot or will not be willing to consider any other train of thought. All I would ask you is this. We as Americans represent approx 5% of the worlds population and take over 80% of the worlds prescription drugs. If Big Pharma were the answer we should rank number one in overall world health and yet we rank around 37th. Despite having more hospitals, nurses, MRI machines etc than the rest of the world.

Question: So hows that workin for ya?

A. People such as yourself get so enamored with "thinking outside the box" that you are unable to consider the side of the debate that is backed with an enormous amount of research. Thus, people with your frame of mind are not worth arguing with.

B. We rank 37th by what measure? I've seen a similar statistic in terms of mistakes in medical practice (which has many different reasons, but seems to be popular in the debate against the competence of our doctors), but if you have a measure that accurately quantifies life expectancy and quality of life as a result of healthcare, I'd like to see it.

[Bump]

Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Oh, and is the nonstick coating safe? There are people who are hysterical about that too.

I'm sure heavy metals do cause problems, just not in tiny doses. People used to paint their houses with lead and we didn't see the mass amounts of alzheimers and autism you're so worried about.

you aren't very bright are you? 'MURICA

[Brock]

you aren't very bright are you? 'MURICA

Great argument, bro. Keep sucking that bong day and night, it appears to be doing wonders for your cognitives.

[Cephalic Trauma]

I discount cholesterol drugs and fancy high blood pressure pills from the 80%. The original old-fashioned BP pill still works amazingly well, it's just doesn't buy lunch for the doctor with pharma dollars.

That I can agree with. Those weasels continue to snake into our offices, and we continue accept the perks they push. I don't like it, but it's the way it is. Trust me, the profession is not perfect.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Great argument, bro. Keep sucking that bong day and night, it appears to be doing wonders for your cognitives.

LMAO

[Floridafan]

I think you may have missed the point. People used to be much, much, much more exposed to the chemicals you're so hysterical about, but there wasn't mass amounts of alzheimers and autism.

I didn't miss the point I am saying that's what we have it all now and the questions is why?

Look, I know I don't have all the answers its just there is so much empirical evidence to ignore. So it behooves each of us to research it for ourselves and then make an educated decision, not just take the word of people who have something to gain from our lack of information. As I said I have been in this for over 40 years and got out of a wheelchair at 21 when they said I never would. Then they told me I wouldn't live to be 30. I am now 62 and for the most part healthy except for a bad set of wheels and a bad neck the result of severe spinal cord injury in the Marine Corps.

I didn't listen to the "take this drug crowd" and when I go to the VA they ask me how are you still alive and functioning and I tell them and they are so narrow minded they are stuck in their stuff they say that can't be it. They did the same thing with my mother. They told her she'd die in 1971 and she is still alive today and when I asked her endocrinologist if she'll go in the books as the longest living patient with her disease he says nope. I ask why, he says cause of the alternative healthcare lifestyle. They are every bit as narrow minded and dishonest as any group I have ever dealt with.

[Brock]

I didn't miss the point I am saying that's what we have it all now and the questions is why?


And I'm saying that logically you can't point a finger at a tiny amount of mercury in a vaccine and credibly tell me that that's why.

[Fish]

Having done this for over 40 years I choose not to waste time on a mind that cannot or will not be willing to consider any other train of thought. All I would ask you is this. We as Americans represent approx 5% of the worlds population and take over 80% of the worlds prescription drugs. If Big Pharma were the answer we should rank number one in overall world health and yet we rank around 37th. Despite having more hospitals, nurses, MRI machines etc than the rest of the world.

Question: So hows that workin for ya?

I'm not opposed to other trains of thought at all. I'm just completely unconvinced by your information.

I don't believe for a second that Big Pharm is the answer. I'm actually not a fan of the commercial pharmaceutical industry. I just don't think they're intentionally causing harm with some grand conspiracy. They screw up plenty, and have caused their share of fatalities. But the scare tactics you're using to portray them are not accurate.

Our overall health ranking is due to many factors that have little to do with Big Pharm or vaccines. A great majority of our health problems are self inflicted, due to people's choice of poor hygiene, poor eating habits, and lack of exercise. You're trying to make the case that our heath system is the cause of our poor health. But that's just not true. The problem is that people choose to damage their own health, and then cannot or will not change their bad habits. Or for many, they cannot afford it. But for those who choose to live healthy and can afford health care, they have access to the best in the world. We have more hospitals, nurses, and MRI machines for sure. But those are not readily accessible to anyone and everyone that needs it. And that simple fact is infinitely more responsible for our overall poor health than any of the unsubstantiated stuff you've been talking about.

[Cephalic Trauma]

The rapification of my rep by the resident stoner "bump" continues...

[Floridafan]

A. People such as yourself get so enamored with "thinking outside the box" that you are unable to consider the side of the debate that is backed with an enormous amount of research. Thus, people with your frame of mind are not worth arguing with.

B. We rank 37th by what measure? I've seen a similar statistic in terms of mistakes in medical practice (which has many different reasons, but seems to be popular in the debate against the competence of our doctors), but if you have a measure that accurately quantifies life expectancy and quality of life as a result of healthcare, I'd like to see it.

37th by the World Health Organizations measure.

Our doctors are the best in the world along with Israel's when it comes to emergency medicine. Gunshot wounds, massive heart attack etc.

They suck at healthcare. Or why we ended up having that massive heart attack when the rest of the world does not have the heart disease that we have in this country.

Health care is not disease care. Look at cancer deaths. When Nixon declared the war on cancer the number of cancer deaths is just about the same now as it was then. So where did all the research money go and what did it get us? Look up the numbers from a reputable source not affiliated with the drug industry.

In the 70's I was called names by other doctors because I told my patients to eat right and get plenty of exercise. They told me that diet and exercise had nothing to do with it. If you don't remember that time or don't believe it ask someone older they'll remember. My how their attitudes have changed.

[Fish]

So you're saying we are not seeing mass amounts of alzheimers and autism now? I must be missing something. Maybe its my mind!

It's certainly diagnosed more because we know more about the conditions. But you can't really compare the actual numbers because we haven't been accurately diagnosing it for very long. How many diagnosis of "Madness" from a couple hundred years ago would be diagnosed as alzheimers today? How many Autistic kids were put into institutions 100 years ago for being "Crazy" or even "Possessed"?

[Cephalic Trauma]

37th by the World Health Organizations measure.
Don't really feel like looking it up, but it likely has to do with poor eating habits and lack of exercise rather than the incompetence of our healthcare system. Have you see the rapid increase of obesity in all 50 states on the cdc's website? It's shocking.

Our doctors are the best in the world along with Israel's when it comes to emergency medicine. Gunshot wounds, massive heart attack etc.

They suck at healthcare. Or why we ended up having that massive heart attack when the rest of the world does not have the heart disease that we have in this country.
Obesity.

Health care is not disease care. Look at cancer deaths. When Nixon declared the war on cancer the number of cancer deaths is just about the same now as it was then. So where did all the research money go and what did it get us? Look up the numbers from a reputable source not affiliated with the drug industry.
Cancer research has come a long way, and we are much better at treating it then we were at that time. I don't have time, nor do I think it is worth it to look up those numbers (because I'm lazy). But if that is the case, it's likely due to an aging population and the increased incidence of cancer in aging individuals.

In the 70's I was called names by other doctors because I told my patients to eat right and get plenty of exercise. They told me that diet and exercise had nothing to do with it. If you don't remember that time or don't believe it ask someone older they'll remember. My how their attitudes have changed.
Your anecdotal experience is fine, but it holds no weight in a discussion where the individuals are not here to defend themselves, nor is there a witness to confirm this encounter occurred. While it may have happened, it's utterly worthless without proof.


Responses in bold.

[crazycoffey]

It's certainly diagnosed more because we know more about the conditions. But you can't really compare the actual numbers because we haven't been accurately diagnosing it for very long. How many diagnosis of "Madness" from a couple hundred years ago would be diagnosed as alzheimers today? How many Autistic kids were put into institutions 100 years ago for being "Crazy" or even "Possessed"?



cell phones, people. cell phones and aliens

[Cephalic Trauma]

BTW, I am sorry to hear about your accident and congratulations on your improved health.

Also, thanks for your service. Though we disagree, I still appreciate your sacrifice.

[Floridafan]

Responses in bold.


Originally Posted by Floridafan
37th by the World Health Organizations measure.
Don't really feel like looking it up, but it likely has to do with poor eating habits and lack of exercise rather than the incompetence of our healthcare system. Have you see the rapid increase of obesity in all 50 states on the cdc's website? It's shocking.

Our doctors are the best in the world along with Israel's when it comes to emergency medicine. Gunshot wounds, massive heart attack etc.

They suck at healthcare. Or why we ended up having that massive heart attack when the rest of the world does not have the heart disease that we have in this country.
Obesity.

Health care is not disease care. Look at cancer deaths. When Nixon declared the war on cancer the number of cancer deaths is just about the same now as it was then. So where did all the research money go and what did it get us? Look up the numbers from a reputable source not affiliated with the drug industry.
Cancer research has come a long way, and we are much better at treating it then we were at that time. I don't have time, nor do I think it is worth it to look up those numbers (because I'm lazy). But if that is the case, it's likely due to an aging population and the increased incidence of cancer in aging individuals.

In the 70's I was called names by other doctors because I told my patients to eat right and get plenty of exercise. They told me that diet and exercise had nothing to do with it. If you don't remember that time or don't believe it ask someone older they'll remember. My how their attitudes have changed.
Your anecdotal experience is fine, but it holds no weight in a discussion where the individuals are not here to defend themselves, nor is there a witness to confirm this encounter occurred. While it may have happened, it's utterly worthless without proof.

If it was not the responsibility of your doctor to tell you how to get well and stay well whose is it?

Thank you for your thank you, was that redundant?

I wish you blessings and good health and a new QB for the new year!!!

[crazycoffey]

If it was not the responsibility of your doctor to tell you how to get well and stay well whose is it?


your parents

[ChiTown]

Ironically, no. I am suffering from the flu right now!:mad:

[Cephalic Trauma]

Originally Posted by Floridafan
If it was not the responsibility of your doctor to tell you how to get well and stay well whose is it?

Thank you for your thank you, was that redundant?

I wish you blessings and good health and a new QB for the new year!!!

It is very much the responsibility of your doctor, that we can agree on. But physicians can only do so much for their patients. They can't force their patients to adhere to their advice. Now, that does not mean we are not to blame as well. We are taught (at least at my school) that patients who do not follow our advice is our fault.

Same to you. Keep going strong. That certainly is remarkable that you beat the odds.

[Floridafan]

It is very much the responsibility of your doctor, that we can agree on. But physicians can only do so much for their patients. They can't force their patients to adhere to their advice. Now, that does not mean we are not to blame as well. We are taught (at least at my school) that patients who do not follow our advice is our fault.

Same to you. Keep going strong. That certainly is remarkable that you beat the odds.

Wow, thanks. Now can we agree that our Chiefs desperately need a QB?