Bob Sutton sucks, say Jets fans

[Hammock Parties]

:facepalm:

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/1/11/3865768/bob-sutton-to-become-new-defensive-coordinator-of-the-kansas-city

Goodness gracious, what an awful decision that would be for the Chiefs.

You probably remember Sutton's run as Jets defensive coordinator under Eric Mangini from 2006 to 2008. The Jets never had a defense ranked higher than 16th. The scheme was unimaginative.

Sutton didn't blitz much, and when he did, it was terribly designed. This all led to a demotion when Rex Ryan came aboard.

As you all know, playing with largely the same personnel and without the best player Sutton had, Kris Jenkins, for most of the year the Jets had the number one defense in the league the year after Sutton left the defensive coordinator post.

With all of the good coaches the Jets have on defense, Andy Reid is going to hire the one bad coach.

[keg in kc]

Wasn't this established the day he was announced?

The only thing so far I'm not thrilled about.

[Sorter]

I personally feel that while Andy is an offensive guy, he'll encourage Sutton to utilize zone-blitzes from base packages which is something he's done throughout his career.

Should be interesting.

[TimeForWasp]

:facepalm:

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/1/11/3865768/bob-sutton-to-become-new-defensive-coordinator-of-the-kansas-city

Reid needed 1 coach he could fire right away to show he means business. :#

[patteeu]

He may suck, I don't know. But the fact that he was carried over through four different head coaching regimes in NY has to say something.

[Gravedigger]

Well see. Out of all the hires this is the one that needs to prove himself almost immediately.

[MotherfuckerJones]

The jets suck period! Enjoy your sanchize

[ChiefMojo]

Sure the Sutton hire is the one main head scratcher but I'm willing to give the man a chance. Namely if the defensive staff is indeed Thomas, Gibbs and Brasher to go along with Sutton... there is plenty of experience amongst that group to succeed. It isn't like we are just learning the 3-4 now.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Q

[Mr. Flopnuts]

As others have said, this is the hire that concerns me. Won't take long to figure out whether he's going to be here for the long haul or not.

[ChiTown]

He may suck, I don't know. But the fact that he was carried over through four different head coaching regimes in NY has to say something.

Yes. He's a good position coach but an AWFUL DC

[Imon Yourside]

Is he our next Greg Robinson?

[TEX]

As others have said, this is the hire that concerns me. Won't take long to figure out whether he's going to be here for the long haul or not.

My thoughts exactly.

[GloryDayz]

Well, not that a stopped clock isn't right twice a day, and I have my own concerns about the hire, we are talking Jets (or is it Jest) fans..

http://reveriehound.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/jets_fans_mispelled_sign_phixr.png

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Yikes.

[Deberg_1990]

I wonder if Sutton is going to be like a Clancy Pendergast? Basically a stopgap until someone better is available?

[RustShack]

Just because Mangini sucked, doesn't mean Sutton did. Plus he's running a D more like the one he learned from Rex anyways. Not the one he was thrown into and learning from Mangini.

[ArrowheadMagic]

He was also trying to run a 34 with 43 personnel. Time will tell what type of hire this is/was. A lot to be excited about, but there was a lot to be excited about 4 yrs ago.

[Easy 6]

I didnt listen to jets fans when they came here and said we'd end up hating Herm, so my ears are open to this criticism.

Lets just hope the guy is better at his job than he was several years ago, that doesnt seem like too much to hope for, and beyond that maybe Reid will press for more aggression.

I'll let him call a few games before calling for his execution.

[CoMoChief]

While I'm not thrilled about the hire.....Jets fans are some of the biggest morons in all of professional sports.

[GloryDayz]

I didnt listen to jets fans when they came here and said we'd end up hating Herm, so my ears are open to this criticism.

Lets just hope the guy is better at his job than he was several years ago, that doesnt seem like too much to hope for, and beyond that maybe Reid will press for more aggression.

I'll let him call a few games before calling for his execution.

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!

[notorious]

I am not going to defend a guy I have not watched much of.


Remember when Gunther went to Detroit? LMAO

[CoMoChief]

I didnt listen to jets fans when they came here and said we'd end up hating Herm, so my ears are open to this criticism.

Lets just hope the guy is better at his job than he was several years ago, that doesnt seem like too much to hope for, and beyond that maybe Reid will press for more aggression.

I'll let him call a few games before calling for his execution.

You were actually excited about Herm at first?

my god....I hated the hire as soon as the rumors starting coming out that we'd be the ones to hire him. And we traded a draft pick for him (NYJ used for Leon Washington IIRC)

[Easy 6]

You were actually excited about Herm at first?

my god....I hated the hire as soon as the rumors starting coming out that we'd be the ones to hire him. And we traded a draft pick for him (NYJ used for Leon Washington IIRC)

I was, he'd had some winning years up there, he came in promising top notch defense, a punishing run game and wasnt going to be afraid to put speedy youth on the field.

[morphius]

You were actually excited about Herm at first?

my god....I hated the hire as soon as the rumors starting coming out that we'd be the ones to hire him. And we traded a draft pick for him (NYJ used for Leon Washington IIRC)
The worst part about making the Herm hire was the fact that the year before trading for him we completely annihilated his unprepared team. Carl always had a thing for picking up players that beat hist team which I can sort of see. But, hiring a coach that had no idea how to stop your team or score against your team? blech.

I guess you can add me to the list of not being impressed with the DC hire, was hoping we would get someone who truly had earned owning that entire part of the team

[RustShack]

It's hard to find good coaches... They either have a job or are being promoted to HC. Sutton is like the up and coming DC people claim to want, except he's not young. But he's still an unknown. And has a lot of experience in a lot of different schemes. Reminds me of a Chan Gailey that's been around and will know how to adapt to players.

[cyborgtable]

He wasn't a good DC for the Jets, and the linebackers were the biggest weakness under Rex but you have better players to run Rex's scheme than the Jets do. We never had a decent let alone good pass-rusher and you have 2. I'm happy to see him go but I don't think he is a bad fit for you guys

[DaWolf]

It is possible he will suck, but maybe time and personnel will help. We shall see.

I wasn't thrilled when Gary Gibbs took over for Romeo because Gibbs run as DC in New Orleans was horrific. But he did a half decent job here.

Who knows. In my mind Gunther is a pathetic DC, but he did a good job when he was coaching under Marty with the talent here. Sometimes talent and circumstance help. And sometimes guys just suck. Sutton has a lot to prove to me...

[The Bad Guy]

The lack of a true outside pass rusher was the biggest weakness for the Jets.

[RustShack]

He wasn't a good DC for the Jets, and the linebackers were the biggest weakness under Rex but you have better players to run Rex's scheme than the Jets do. We never had a decent let alone good pass-rusher and you have 2. I'm happy to see him go but I don't think he is a bad fit for you guys

You mean Mangini wasn't a good DC. Sutton had never ran that scheme before, so anyone with half a brain would know he wasn't the one running it.

[cyborgtable]

You mean Mangini wasn't a good DC. Sutton had never ran that scheme before, so anyone with half a brain would know he wasn't the one running it.

Yes, he called the plays but it was Mangini gameplanning and running it, you are correct. I still think he will do at worst the same as last season just because you have much better personnel to run the defense then we did when we were the number 1 D

[dannybcaitlyn]

:facepalm:

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/1/11/3865768/bob-sutton-to-become-new-defensive-coordinator-of-the-kansas-city

Welp, We were warned.

[chiefzilla1501]

Jfc. Let's see what he does in the playoffs with a full deck. The d did not play bad against Indy except for one horrendous safety who was in position and didn't do his job.

[Lex Luthor]

Nobody bumped this thread when the Chiefs were averaging 5 sacks a game.

[dannybcaitlyn]

We've lost so much over the years Chief fans are Brainwashed in to accepting mediocrity.

[Lex Luthor]

We've lost so much over the years Chief fans are Brainwashed in to accepting mediocrity.
Were you calling for Bob Sutton to be fired when the Chiefs were averaging 5 sacks per game and EVERYONE was writing that the Chiefs have a championship caliber defense?

I didn't think so, n00b.

I know, you've been around since 2004. But anyone who's been on this site for 9 years and only has 800 posts is a n00b.

[suzzer99]

Other teams have figured us out and we haven't adjusted. That's a sign of bad coaching. We telegraph our blitzes, and make it completely obvious when we're rushing three. Compare that to say what the Giants or Steelers do where you never have any idea who's going where.

[Lex Luthor]

Other teams have figured us out and we haven't adjusted. That's a sign of bad coaching. We telegraph our blitzes, and make it completely obvious when we're rushing three. Compare that to say what the Giants or Steelers do where you never have any idea who's going where.

I completely agree. And if Sutton shows that he can't figure it out, then he will eventually need to be replaced. I'm just not ready to pull the trigger on the guy as quickly as some people are, given the great success he had the first half of the season.

[dannybcaitlyn]

I have a life and its not about fucking sitting on forum and counting how many post I have. So who gives a shit they had a couple 5 sack games! Teams have figured it out and your dumb ass coordinator hasn't. They haven't done shit in the last eight games and most likely it will be our demise in the playoffs. Your just another Gullible Homer Chief Fan

[Ceej]

I have a life and its not about ****ing sitting on forum and counting how many post I have. So who gives a shit they had a couple 5 sack games! Teams have figured it out and your dumb ass coordinator hasn't. They haven't done shit in the last eight games and most likely it will be our demise in the playoffs. Your just another Gullible Homer Chief Fan

The guy who has a life goes back and bumps a thread from nearly a year ago. Yeah, uh-huh okay.

LMAO

[chiefzilla1501]

Other teams have figured us out and we haven't adjusted. That's a sign of bad coaching. We telegraph our blitzes, and make it completely obvious when we're rushing three. Compare that to say what the Giants or Steelers do where you never have any idea who's going where.

No it isn't. We throw a lot of delayed blitzes, lots of guys at the line who sprint back into coverage, blitzers from all directions.

It's hard to do much when your safeties can't cover over the top. When cooper is targeted the minute the ball is snapped. When you have two defensive ends who are excellent run stuffers but are terrible against the pass, and when we lost Houston, we lost a player with the versatility to rush, stop the run, and cover. We also don't have the depth to rest our players and they are clearly gassed. Against Indy, we played excellent defense -- when your players are in the right position to make a play and don't, that's poor talent. Not scheme.

Get at least an average safety. Improve our d line depth. Cooper has to get better and he will. Get our starters healthy. Fixed. Let's not throw the d coordinator under the bus when he's working with what we have. Right now, my biggest beef is he doesn't sub out as much as he should.

[dannybcaitlyn]

The guy who has a life goes back and bumps a thread from nearly a year ago. Yeah, uh-huh okay.

LMAO

LMAO

Suttons pissing me off!

[tecumseh]

Let's say the Chiefs defense start the 14' season the way they are finishing the 13' run. Then, he's got to go. He's earned a short leash.

[Lex Luthor]

I have a life and its not about ****ing sitting on forum and counting how many post I have. So who gives a shit they had a couple 5 sack games! Teams have figured it out and your dumb ass coordinator hasn't. They haven't done shit in the last eight games and most likely it will be our demise in the playoffs. Your just another Gullible Homer Chief Fan

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

The problem with fans like you is you want immediate fixes. You have no idea how to fix the problem. All you know is that SOMETHING must be done, and it must be done IMMEDIATELY! If the defense, which was the BEST IN THE NFL through 7 weeks has run into a rough patch, then CLEARLY the defensive coordinator MUST BE FIRED!

You're certainly not a gullible Homer Chief fan. You're clearly just an idiot. You should probably go back to just lurking on the site.

[jspchief]

No it isn't. We throw a lot of delayed blitzes, lots of guys at the line who sprint back into coverage, blitzers from all directions.

It's hard to do much when your safeties can't cover over the top. When cooper is targeted the minute the ball is snapped. When you have two defensive ends who are excellent run stuffers but are terrible against the pass, and when we lost Houston, we lost a player with the versatility to rush, stop the run, and cover. We also don't have the depth to rest our players and they are clearly gassed. Against Indy, we played excellent defense -- when your players are in the right position to make a play and don't, that's poor talent. Not scheme.

Get at least an average safety. Improve our d line depth. Cooper has to get better and he will. Get our starters healthy. Fixed. Let's not throw the d coordinator under the bus when he's working with what we have. Right now, my biggest beef is he doesn't sub out as much as he should.

First paragraph is pretty much wrong.

The rest is head in the sand bullshit. The secondary has issues but it's no excuse for the current horrible pass rush.

The scheme is bad. The pass rushers are predictable. Coaching needs to change.

[Lex Luthor]

No it isn't. We throw a lot of delayed blitzes, lots of guys at the line who sprint back into coverage, blitzers from all directions.

It's hard to do much when your safeties can't cover over the top. When cooper is targeted the minute the ball is snapped. When you have two defensive ends who are excellent run stuffers but are terrible against the pass, and when we lost Houston, we lost a player with the versatility to rush, stop the run, and cover. We also don't have the depth to rest our players and they are clearly gassed. Against Indy, we played excellent defense -- when your players are in the right position to make a play and don't, that's poor talent. Not scheme.

Get at least an average safety. Improve our d line depth. Cooper has to get better and he will. Get our starters healthy. Fixed. Let's not throw the d coordinator under the bus when he's working with what we have. Right now, my biggest beef is he doesn't sub out as much as he should.
And once again Chiefzilla is the voice of reason in a thread full of idiocy.

[dannybcaitlyn]

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

The problem with fans like you is you want immediate fixes. You have no idea how to fix the problem. All you know is that SOMETHING must be done, and it must be done IMMEDIATELY! If the defense, which was the BEST IN THE NFL through 7 weeks has run into a rough patch, then CLEARLY the defensive coordinator MUST BE FIRED!

You're certainly not a gullible Homer Chief fan. You're clearly just an idiot. You should probably go back to just lurking on the site.

Yea, Keep Sutton and watch the prime years of our defensive stars wasted! Dumbass.

[Lex Luthor]

Yea, Keep Sutton and watch the prime years of our defensive stars wasted! Dumbass.
You continue to show why it was wise of you to post very infrequently.

Chiefzilla did a pretty nice job of pointing out where the problems are. You should re-read his post and then be quiet.

[chiefzilla1501]

First paragraph is pretty much wrong.

The rest is head in the sand bullshit. The secondary has issues but it's no excuse for the current horrible pass rush.

The scheme is bad. The pass rushers are predictable. Coaching needs to change.

What's head in the sand bullshit? That losing Houston is a huge loss, given how horrible Zombo has looked in coverage? That Tyson Jackson and Devito are horrible pass rushers and on every single snap, you essentially have 2 guys in your front 3 who can't rush the passer? That a lot of our deep plays are the result of us consistently getting burned deep because we don't have over-the-top help? That our D-line is clearly gassed and playing with less energy than they did the first half.

The scheme isn't perfect, but we are getting because of our players a hell of a lot more than because of our scheme. And our blitzes are NOT predictable. We got beat by Peyton because he put a huge bullseye on Cooper's back and Lewis didn't help over the top. We got to Rivers, and then lost Houston and Hali and lost our pass rush entirely. Washington and Oakland were throwaway games. We played excellent in Indy except Kendrick Lewis gave up several big plays where he was well positioned to make a play and then took himself out of it.

[dannybcaitlyn]

[QUOTE=Brainiac;10314089]You continue to show why it was wise of you to post very infrequently.

Chiefzilla did a pretty nice job of pointing out where the problems are. You should re-read his post and then be quiet.[/QUOT

Your quite defensive. Are you and Sutton Fucking?

[Lex Luthor]

Your quite defensive. Are you and Sutton ****ing?
Quality post.

[dannybcaitlyn]

No it isn't. We throw a lot of delayed blitzes, lots of guys at the line who sprint back into coverage, blitzers from all directions.

It's hard to do much when your safeties can't cover over the top. When cooper is targeted the minute the ball is snapped. When you have two defensive ends who are excellent run stuffers but are terrible against the pass, and when we lost Houston, we lost a player with the versatility to rush, stop the run, and cover. We also don't have the depth to rest our players and they are clearly gassed. Against Indy, we played excellent defense -- when your players are in the right position to make a play and don't, that's poor talent. Not scheme.

Get at least an average safety. Improve our d line depth. Cooper has to get better and he will. Get our starters healthy. Fixed. Let's not throw the d coordinator under the bus when he's working with what we have. Right now, my biggest beef is he doesn't sub out as much as he should.

The sad thing is every Sorry defense in the league has the same excuses. Where do you draw the line when you should just shit can the Coordinator. Every coordinator is probably saying if Only I had this or that. I believe the Saints had zero probowlers last year and set a record with most allowed yards. This year they grab Rob ryan and the defense is night and day better with minimal personnel change. Also, If lewis is so bad they should never have him playing Single high, actually he should just be benched.

[Discuss Thrower]

Welp.. there's always next year.

[milkman]

The sad thing is every Sorry defense in the league has the same excuses. Where do you draw the line when you should just shit can the Coordinator. Every coordinator is probably saying if Only I had this or that. I believe the Saints had zero probowlers last year and set a record with most allowed yards. This year they grab Rob ryan and the defense is night and day better with minimal personnel change. Also, If lewis is so bad they should never have him playing Single high, actually he should just be benched.

The Cowboys defense has gotten worse under Monte Kiffen, but they were still crap with Rob Ryan running it.

Personnel makes a difference.

We need depth in the front 7, and a free safety who doesn't make you pay when you don't get to the QB when you blitz.

[Lex Luthor]

Welp.. there's always next year.

To hell with the concept of trying to build something out of the wreckage of Scott Pioli. If the Chiefs don't win the Super Bowl in Andy Reid's first year, let the firings begin!

/True Idiots

[milkman]

Oh, and Danny, when Rex Ryan took over the Jets D, they added Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard at LB and safety respectively, which were big upgrades.

[Hammock Parties]

toldja

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Welp.. there's always next year.

Grow a pair

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Coward Planet

[mcaj22]

To hell with the concept of trying to build something out of the wreckage of Scott Pioli. If the Chiefs don't win the Super Bowl in Andy Reid's first year, let the firings begin!

/True Idiots

4 year "rebuild" under Pioli post Herm back to a year 1 rebuild excuse for Andy Reid

so 8 year rebuild plan total. So by year 4 of Andy Reid we can expect Super Bowl! yay!

[BossChief]

Hopefully, Rex is still available when we send Sutton to the glue factory.

[Fritz88]

I doubt Sutton is fired after this season. He'll be around next year.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Pasta Little Brioni]

4 year "rebuild" under Pioli post Herm back to a year 1 rebuild excuse for Andy Reid

so 8 year rebuild plan total. So by year 4 of Andy Reid we can expect Super Bowl! yay!

Yeah he only got us plus 9 wins this year...can his ass

[BossChief]

I doubt Sutton is fired after this season. He'll be around next year.
Posted via Mobile Device

The players have regressed under his coaching.

[notorious]

Deep coverage and no pressure on the QB has buried this defense.


No big deal, just the 2 most important components of a defense.

[milkman]

The players have regressed under his coaching.

No they haven't.

They have fatigued, and Kendrick Lewis' lack of ability has truley been exposed.

[splatbass]

I have a life and its not about ****ing sitting on forum and counting how many post I have. So who gives a shit they had a couple 5 sack games! Teams have figured it out and your dumb ass coordinator hasn't. They haven't done shit in the last eight games and most likely it will be our demise in the playoffs. Your just another Gullible Homer Chief Fan

And you're just another guy that doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". ;)

[dannybcaitlyn]

And you're just another guy that doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". ;)

Yes ex.

I go to YOUR moms house for a late night creep.

You're Gay!

Happy!

J/K

[splatbass]

Yes ex.

I go to YOUR moms house for a late night creep.

You're Gay!

Happy!

J/K

Wow, you are illiterate and juvenile. :thumb:

[splatbass]

4 year "rebuild" under Pioli post Herm back to a year 1 rebuild excuse for Andy Reid

so 8 year rebuild plan total. So by year 4 of Andy Reid we can expect Super Bowl! yay!

When one regime ends a new rebuild starts. You can't just add them together. Reid and Dorsey are not responsible for what happened prior to 2013.

You can't spend your life dwelling on the past and letting it affect the present negatively. You learn from your mistakes, then move on. We started new when they hired Reid and Dorsey. Anything that happened before that is done and can't be changed, so there is no point in obsessing over it.

[dannybcaitlyn]

The Cowboys defense has gotten worse under Monte Kiffen, but they were still crap with Rob Ryan running it.

Personnel makes a difference.

We need depth in the front 7, and a free safety who doesn't make you pay when you don't get to the QB when you blitz.

I agreed Milk Personnel does make a difference. Just think we have five probowlers on defense, actually six if you count flowers(ha). So six of the eleven on the field are probowlers. That's more then half. Probably more then any other team in the league and we sink from a top five defense to probably mid-late twenties in a eight week span. That's what pisses me off. I wonder in the History of the NFL has that ever been done. We've given up the second most yardage in that span, only the cowboys have given up more. I agree with you the D-line is gassed, its Bobs job to rotate the players for breathers. I know the depth isn't great, but throw in some fresh legs. I think powe could hold his own for a few plays. Other teams are finding ways around it. I'll throw this in there even though it may not mean shit to some. JAWS was on NFL matchup this morning talking about the Chiefs Defense. He said Sutton man press Defense is too predictable and teams are all over it. He said its fixable but he needs to adjust. How many weeks now since the first time we were killed on crossing patterns and its still happening.

[dannybcaitlyn]

Wow, you are illiterate and juvenile. :thumb:

Love it!

[Mr. Laz]

I doubt Sutton is fired after this season. He'll be around next year.
Posted via Mobile Device
I don't think Reid is a quick fired type guy.

Coaches will have to suck for several years before any firings happen.


inability to adjust doesn't bode well for Sutton though

Have we developed a quality corner under Emmit Thomas?

I believe Thomas inherited Flowers and Carr.

[milkman]

I agreed Milk Personnel does make a difference. Just think we have five probowlers on defense, actually six if you count flowers(ha). So six of the eleven on the field are probowlers. That's more then half. Probably more then any other team in the league and we sink from a top five defense to probably mid-late twenties in a eight week span. That's what pisses me off. I wonder in the History of the NFL has that ever been done. We've given up the second most yardage in that span, only the cowboys have given up more. I agree with you the D-line is gassed, its Bobs job to rotate the players for breathers. I know the depth isn't great, but throw in some fresh legs. I think powe could hold his own for a few plays. Other teams are finding ways around it. I'll throw this in there even though it may not mean shit to some. JAWS was on NFL matchup this morning talking about the Chiefs Defense. He said Sutton man press Defense is too predictable and teams are all over it. He said its fixable but he needs to adjust. How many weeks now since the first time we were killed on crossing patterns and its still happening.

You know how it's fixable?

Zone.

Have you seen this defense when they've played zone?

[Snapplez]

You know how it's fixable?

Zone.

Have you seen this defense when they've played zone?

El terrible

[milkman]

I don't think Reid is a quick fired type guy.

Coaches will have to suck for several years before any firings happen.


inability to adjust doesn't bode well for Sutton though

Have we developed a quality corner under Emmit Thomas?

I believe Thomas inherited Flowers and Carr.

Carr developed under Thomas' tutelage, and looked to be on his way to surpassing Flowers.

He has regressed since becoming a Cowboy.

[Mr. Laz]

Carr developed under Thomas' tutelage, and looked to be on his way to surpassing Flowers.

He has regressed since becoming a Cowboy.
Carr had been a Chief for 2 years when Thomas started coaching for the Chiefs.

Drafte/1st year under Herman Edwards in 2008
Todd Haley/Romeo Crennel in 2009
Romeo Crennel/Emmit Thomas in 2010 and 2011
Dallas in 2012

i think this is how it went anyway

(2010–2012) Javier Arenas?

[BandwagonChiefsFan]

I miss Herm Edwards ability to draft players

[milkman]

Carr had been a Chief for 2 years when Thomas started coaching for the Chiefs.

Drafte/1st year under Herman Edwards in 2008
Todd Haley/Romeo Crennel in 2009
Romeo Crennel/Emmit Thomas in 2010 and 2011
Dallas in 2012

i think this is how it went anyway

(2010–2012) Javier Arenas?

How many times during his first 2 years did we see people calling for Carr to be cut and calling him garbage?

In his next 2 years, those posts virtually vanished.

Coincidence?

[Mr. Laz]

How many times during his first 2 years did we see people calling for Carr to be cut and calling him garbage.

In his next 2 years, those posts virtually vanished.

Coincidence?
I know you like Emmit Thomas.

Ok, so for argument sake give him Carr.

Who else?

[milkman]

I know you like Emmit Thomas.

Ok, so for argument sake give him Carr.

Who else?

Has he really had anyone else to work with?

[saphojunkie]

I would absolutely love it if Herm Edwards came back to the Chiefs in some role in college scouting. I think the guy has a spectacular eye for defensive talent, and frankly that's where most of our draft picks should go.

And frankly he drafted Bowe and Charles, too. I despised him as an in-game coach, but dammit if he didn't find great players.

[milkman]

I would absolutely love it if Herm Edwards came back to the Chiefs in some role in college scouting. I think the guy has a spectacular eye for defensive talent, and frankly that's where most of our draft picks should go.

And frankly he drafted Bowe and Charles, too. I despised him as an in-game coach, but dammit if he didn't find great players.

Bill Kuharich

[Mr. Laz]

I would absolutely love it if Herm Edwards came back to the Chiefs in some role in college scouting. I think the guy has a spectacular eye for defensive talent, and frankly that's where most of our draft picks should go.

And frankly he drafted Bowe and Charles, too. I despised him as an in-game coach, but dammit if he didn't find great players.
having him as our secondary coach would be awesome

but he's making big bucks now on t.v. so he's not coming back to coaching until he doesn't have a choice

[Just Passin' By]

The players have regressed under his coaching.

The Chiefs went from a read and react type of style with a 2-gap foundation to a blitzkrieg approach with a lot of 1-gap play. That took time for teams to adjust to, and the early opponents weren't very good. Only one of the Chiefs' first 9 teams will end up in the playoffs, and that team won't have more than 10 wins, max. Denver exposed the Chiefs defense a bit, and an attacking style like Sutton's is weak if it can't get to the QB. Sutton was never going to be a cure-all.

[Fritz88]

The players have regressed under his coaching.
When your defense is legendary the first 9 games then you'll get benefit of the doubt.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mr. Laz]

When your defense is legendary the first 9 games then you'll get benefit of the doubt.
Posted via Mobile Device
so if your defense is legendarily bad the next 8 games do you lose the benefit of the doubt?

[Fritz88]

so if your defense is legendarily bad the next 8 games do you lose the benefit of the doubt?

Most likely not.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jspchief]

so if your defense is legendarily bad the next 8 games do you lose the benefit of the doubt?Maybe with the fans.

He bought himself 2 more years with the organization. Bank on it.

[Lex Luthor]

4 year "rebuild" under Pioli post Herm back to a year 1 rebuild excuse for Andy Reid

so 8 year rebuild plan total. So by year 4 of Andy Reid we can expect Super Bowl! yay!

(1) Andy Reid took over a 2-14 team. This is his first year with the team, and they are in the playoffs. What the fuck do you expect?

(2) Writing a coherent sentence isn't really one of you strong points, is it?

[RunKC]

The moment Justin Houston got hurt this defense collapsed.

Tamba feeds off the attention going to Houston and vice versa. This secondary is a huge problem and I'm amazed that Sutton could cover it up as long as he could.

[dj56dt58]

This "the D is fatigued" excuse doesn't make much since. I understand Poe being fatigued, but our O typically dominates time of possession. Why should they be more fatigued than any other D?

[Mr. Laz]

The moment Justin Houston got hurt this defense collapsed.

Tamba feeds off the attention going to Houston and vice versa. This secondary is a huge problem and I'm amazed that Sutton could cover it up as long as he could.
actually the defense started collapsing before Houston got hurt

[chiefzilla1501]

actually the defense started collapsing before Houston got hurt

I disagree. I thought our d played better than they got credit for against Denver and their first half defense against San Diego was phenomenal. I also think about their performance against indy... They played well and Justin Houston would have made them great.

Since the bye week, their two major collapses on defense were against Philip rivers minus Houston and Hali, and the second time against Peyton Manning. There is still hope that with a rested D and Houston healthy, they can be a force in the playoffs. And I certainly think they're capable of giving either dalton or luck problems.

[milkman]

This "the D is fatigued" excuse doesn't make much since. I understand Poe being fatigued, but our O typically dominates time of possession. Why should they be more fatigued than any other D?

Because there is no depth, and the playmakers on this defense, Hali, DJ, People, and Houston, before his injury, have been playing nearly every single snap.

And that TOP figure is something of an illusion.

[Three7s]

Because there is no depth, and the playmakers on this defense, Hali, DJ, People, and Houston, before his injury, have been playing nearly every single snap.

And that TOP figure is something of an illusion.
At first, I thought the D being gassed might have been true. Though, after awhile, I'm starting to realize that the pass rush has been an anomaly inflated by just a few games. I guess there really isn't a way to prove which theory is correct, but I just find it hard to believe the coaches would continue to run these players out there if they knew the problem was fatigue.

[Three7s]

The moment Justin Houston got hurt this defense collapsed.

Tamba feeds off the attention going to Houston and vice versa. This secondary is a huge problem and I'm amazed that Sutton could cover it up as long as he could.
Wrong, the defense was going down-hill before that, it was just glossed over by backup QBs.

[chiefzilla1501]

Wrong, the defense was going down-hill before that, it was just glossed over by backup QBs.

The defense at full or close to fill strength looked excellent against Philip rivers. They held their own against Andrew luck. The defense has not been bad after the bye week. Peyton manning embarrassed the chiefs d. He embarrasses a lot of teams.

[Three7s]

The defense at full or close to fill strength looked excellent against Philip rivers. They held their own against Andrew luck. The defense has not been bad after the bye week. Peyton manning embarrassed the chiefs d. He embarrasses a lot of teams.
And how do you explain the Raiders debacle? 31 points against that team should be against the law, and one sack against a team that was FORCED to pass almost all the time.

Yes, Houston is a big loss, but you expect me to believe that one player is responsible for the whole defense's success?

[Just Passin' By]

And how do you explain the Raiders debacle? 31 points against that team should be against the law, and one sack against a team that was FORCED to pass almost all the time.

Yes, Houston is a big loss, but you expect me to believe that one player is responsible for the whole defense's success?

You don't even have to get to the Raiders. Rivers threw for almost 400 yards against the Chiefs. Denver exposed the defense. When K.C. couldn't get to Manning, Flowers couldn't stop Welker and Cooper couldn't stop anyone. That gave everyone the way to beat the Chiefs.

[chiefzilla1501]

And how do you explain the Raiders debacle? 31 points against that team should be against the law, and one sack against a team that was FORCED to pass almost all the time.

Yes, Houston is a big loss, but you expect me to believe that one player is responsible for the whole defense's success?

I don't care nearly as much about how many points the D gave up in a game where we scored 35 points in one half. To me, the only games that mattered since the bye were Denver twice, SD, and Indy. The Chiefs played solid enough D against Denver in game 1. They played exceptional defense in the first half against an explosive offense, then collapsed when they lost both Hali and Houston. They played very good defense against Indy. With Houston in San Diego our D probably could have looked at least average. Against Indy, we could have went from good to excellent.

The post bye week D hasn't been nearly as bad as we've made it sound. I don't think we're going to stop Peyton Manning or Brady in the playoffs. But is that really what we're shooting for in year 1 of a new regime?

[chiefzilla1501]

You don't even have to get to the Raiders. Rivers threw for almost 400 yards against the Chiefs. Denver exposed the defense. When K.C. couldn't get to Manning, Flowers couldn't stop Welker and Cooper couldn't stop anyone. That gave everyone the way to beat the Chiefs.

Rivers threw almost all of his yards on a Chiefs' defense that doesn't have the depth to lose their two most critical players. This defense is obviously going to suck big time without Hali and Houston. Rivers was knocked around a lot when we had both or just one of those guys on our D.

[Three7s]

I don't care nearly as much about how many points the D gave up in a game where we scored 35 points in one half. To me, the only games that mattered since the bye were Denver twice, SD, and Indy. The Chiefs played solid enough D against Denver in game 1. They played exceptional defense in the first half against an explosive offense, then collapsed when they lost both Hali and Houston. They played very good defense against Indy. With Houston in San Diego our D probably could have looked at least average. Against Indy, we could have went from good to excellent.

The post bye week D hasn't been nearly as bad as we've made it sound. I don't think we're going to stop Peyton Manning or Brady in the playoffs. But is that really what we're shooting for in year 1 of a new regime?
You're saying it doesn't matter that the Chiefs were up 35-10 and the Raiders scored 3 unanswered TDs to make it a game due to a defensive collapse? Face it, that performance was 2003 all over again. Who cares about the margin of victory?

[Mav]

passing league, dominated by the NFL's love of offense, the inability to touch anyone now days, and the refs habit of swallowing their whistles, and losing of their flags whenever, *which is damn near every play* tamba hali is placed into a rear naked choke.

Those things add up.

Oh, and Kendrick Lewis.

[patteeu]

This "the D is fatigued" excuse doesn't make much since. I understand Poe being fatigued, but our O typically dominates time of possession. Why should they be more fatigued than any other D?

I don't know how much fatigue really matters, but the reason people might think Poe is fatigued is because he has played more snaps this season than any other DT in the league.

1. Dontari Poe 1004
2. Gerald McCoy 924
3. Jurrell Casey 891
...
10. Michael Brockers 752
...
15. Randy Starks 688
...
20. Akeem Spence 663
...
25. Pat Sims 637
...
30. Malik Jackson 560
31. Phil Taylor 555
32. Earl Mitchell 523

The average number of snaps for the 32 most heavily used DTs is 713. Poe is being used 33% more than the average DT.

[milkman]

At first, I thought the D being gassed might have been true. Though, after awhile, I'm starting to realize that the pass rush has been an anomaly inflated by just a few games. I guess there really isn't a way to prove which theory is correct, but I just find it hard to believe the coaches would continue to run these players out there if they knew the problem was fatigue.

Have you seen the drop off between Houston and Zombo?

And Zombo is better than anyone behind Poe.

[chiefzilla1501]

You're saying it doesn't matter that the Chiefs were up 35-10 and the Raiders scored 3 unanswered TDs to make it a game due to a defensive collapse? Face it, that performance was 2003 all over again. Who cares about the margin of victory?

It's common for defenses to start giving up a lot of points when you're up by a lot. I think people are making way too big a deal of their defensive play against Oakland. I care more about their poor performance against Buffalo and Cleveland, which were two close games. Or the second half of the second Denver game. That, to me, is much more representative of a defense forced to make critical stops but just couldn't.

[dannybcaitlyn]

Need I say more! The search should began for a New D-Cordinator!

[Bump]

this defensive performance almost rivals 2003's defense

[KChiefs1]

True

[dannybcaitlyn]

I completely agree. And if Sutton shows that he can't figure it out, then he will eventually need to be replaced. I'm just not ready to pull the trigger on the guy as quickly as some people are, given the great success he had the first half of the season.

What about now?

[GloryDayz]

What about now?

LOL.... :D.

[Jimmya]

I agred......2003 again...fire Sutton just like Greg Robinson.

[Hammock Parties]

History repeating itself...

Goodness gracious, what an awful decision that would be for the Chiefs. You probably remember Sutton's run as Jets defensive coordinator under Eric Mangini from 2006 to 2008. The Jets never had a defense ranked higher than 16th. The scheme was unimaginative. Sutton didn't blitz much, and when he did, it was terribly designed. This all led to a demotion when Rex Ryan came aboard. As you all know, playing with largely the same personnel and without the best player Sutton had, Kris Jenkins, for most of the year the Jets had the number one defense in the league the year after Sutton left the defensive coordinator post.

With all of the good coaches the Jets have on defense, Andy Reid is going to hire the one bad coach.

[Sassy Squatch]

History repeating itself...
Oh. Yikes.

[Chiefnj2]

History repeating itself...

Andy Heck must be excited that he will be the new DC.

[rabblerouser]

Yes. He's a good position coach but an AWFUL DC

If that's true, then we should have him coaching LBs too.

[Coochie liquor]

Andy Heck must be excited that he will be the new DC.

Except this time it’s gonna be Brit Reid!

[htismaqe]

Andy Heck must be excited that he will be the new DC.

ROFL

[Hammock Parties]

JETS DEMOTE SUTTON

The Jets announced a demotion for former defensive coordinator Bob Sutton yesterday. The veteran coach will stay with the team as senior defensive assistant/linebackers coach.

Sutton presided over the defense for three years under Eric Mangini. The Jets ranked 20th, 18th and 16th in the NFL in total defense those three seasons. Sutton is entering his 10th year with the team; he was originally the linebackers coach.

[Sassy Squatch]

So, fire DeLeone, demote Sutton, ???, profit.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO

Very conservative with a lead. If you're up 20 at half, expect a lot of prevent D. He might be in better hands in KC than he was with Mangina, since KC has talent all over the place in the secondary and front 7. Regardless, hard to do much with talent when you're not very aggressive in general. I mean, he just really refuses to send more than 4 guys at the point of attack.

[Beef Supreme]

Ancient Astronaut theorists surmise ... Bob Sutton sucks.

[GayFrogs]

JETS DEMOTE SUTTON

Dude...this coupled with "history repeating itself" got me excited for a few seconds :cuss:

[Hammock Parties]

He wasn't a good DC for the Jets, and the linebackers were the biggest weakness under Rex

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

[Lzen]

Andy Heck must be excited that he will be the new DC.

ROFL

[Hammock Parties]

The *Official* FIRE BOB SUTTON thread (http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/the-official-fire-bob-sutton-thread.36378/)

Bob Sutton really has to go after this season. I just can't take his 3 man rushes anymore.. The man is the Paul Hackett of DC's...


LMAO

[TambaBerry]

its just amazing how the nfl just keeps employing retreads throughout every single position available. Its almost like its some type of top secret club that they can only choose from.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Christ this is terrible. Come ON Andy!!!
FUCK!!!