First down Laser - Yay or nay

[-King-]

League continues to resist in-stadium first-down laser
Posted by Mike Florio on January 22, 2013, 9:39 PM EST


The NFL desperately wants to enhance the in-stadium experience. But the NFL continues to resist an innovation that would make watching the game in person a lot more like watching it at home.

For years, the technology has existed to implement a laser system that would make the line to gain visible to everyone in the stadium — including the players, the coaches, and the officials.

Now, with more and more fans choosing to watch on TV, this system helps duplicate the technology that is available during the broadcast of every game.

“We have not been convinced that it would work for us, but we are open to further discussion after the season,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told the Associated Press.

The laser is embedded in the orange sticks separated by 10 yards, and the company that makes the device has received financial backing from legendary kicker and broadcaster Pat Summerall.

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[Buck]

I didn't watch the video, so I don't know if that company perfected the art, but fuck yes it should be, as long as it cant get in anyone's eyes and distract them.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

We wouldn't want things to be too clear. Questionable ball placements and measurements are better.

[-King-]

We wouldn't want things to be too clear. Questionable ball placements and measurements are better.

Has nothing to do with any of those.

[chief52]

If you are at the game all you have to do is look for the bright orange down markers...like we have for years. The reason they are so helpful on TV is we can not see the down markers.

Totally not needed if you ask me.

[-King-]

Yeah, I don't think they're needed either. But most people on PFT seem to think they're a great idea.

[cdcox]

You will see a lot more fumbles as players stretch with the ball to get a first down. At the goal line this isn't as much of an issue since it is a TD once the ball breaks the plane. I think it would hurt the quality of the game.

[Buck]

ITS THE FUCKING FUTURE...ACCEPT IT NOW.

[baitism]

Then we can just put something in the ball that lets you know if it crosses the line. Like a dog shock collar without the shock.

I see both sides. But, anything that makes the game easier for the refs is better for the game, because they are consistently terrible.

[Bump]

meh

[Sofa King]

Don't complain when you get what you ask for. You'll be regretting this decision after the first player trips over it and gets a concussion.

[AussieChiefsFan]

If there's no drawbacks then definitely.

[|Zach|]

"First down chains could be eliminated. This could shorten the game while adding extra time for commercials"

Because that is what the NFL needs. More commercials.

[J Diddy]

Don't complain when you get what you ask for. You'll be regretting this decision after the first player trips over it and gets a concussion.

Oh shit. I was all for it until I realized that the lasers were death star lasers.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I've thought for a few years they should put RFID chips in the tips of the ball. It wouldn't be foolproof, but it would allow for more precision than the status quo.

[Rasputin]

If it is the same as being at home, then why go to the game? Save money proffit. Just trying to use logic to out scheme the NFL money machine.

[ZootedGranny]

I'm all for eliminating the "human element" (aka errors), but I also value a wide receiver that knows where the first down marker is. Why not implement it on a trial basis during the preseason and see the response?

I'm more interested in the NFL setting regulations that would ensure each game is filmed with the exact same number of cameras and angles. Or syncing replay footage and giving the officials a side by side view of two different angles.

Then again, they don't seem interested in making sure fields are safe to play on, so I don't know what I should expect.

[teedubya]

"First down chains could be eliminated. This could shorten the game while adding extra time for commercials"

Because that is what the NFL needs. More commercials.

Yeah. I was totally blown away by the idea of more commercials. So exciting.

[chief52]

Then we can just put something in the ball that lets you know if it crosses the line. Like a dog shock collar without the shock.

I see both sides. But, anything that makes the game easier for the refs is better for the game, because they are consistently terrible.

That would only work on the goal line. It would not work anywhere else. No way of "the chip" knowing when forward progress was stopped.

[BWillie]

Love the idea....wasting time to measure with a chain is so archaic

[EagleRob]

Well if they're going to do this then they also need the plane of the goal lines extended upward from the field as well so we can know if the ball breaks the plane. The first down laser could be made eye-safe if the divergence was large enough or if face shields filtered the 532 um green wavelength (guessing it would be green due to relatively cheap cost and small size of frequency-doubled Neodymium YAG lasers) but I can't see how it could be projected across the field with 28 sets of feet getting in the way.

[CoMoChief]

IMO this is overdoing it.

There are certain things about watching a live game that you don't want to change.

[Canofbier]

"First down chains could be eliminated. This could shorten the game while adding extra time for commercials"

Because that is what the NFL needs. More commercials.

I think that they say that not in an effort to appeal to you and me, but to the people who would actually be buying the product (league owners, etc).

[Brooklyn]

if it is an actual laser that appears on the field this would also help instant replay. Being a sort of tangible string that traverses the entire field would be a much better reference point than trying to judge the angles of the camera relative to the ball and the markers.

pre-season may be a bit too early to use it, but how about the pro bowl? no one gives a crap about that.

[MagicHef]

That would only work on the goal line. It would not work anywhere else. No way of "the chip" knowing when forward progress was stopped.

Yes there is. It could work anywhere on the field.

[Fat Elvis]

Well if they're going to do this then they also need the plane of the goal lines extended upward from the field as well so we can know if the ball breaks the plane. The first down laser could be made eye-safe if the divergence was large enough or if face shields filtered the 532 um green wavelength (guessing it would be green due to relatively cheap cost and small size of frequency-doubled Neodymium YAG lasers) but I can't see how it could be projected across the field with 28 sets of feet getting in the way.

WTF. Brainy Iggles fan?



Oh and BTW, robots bitches, robots. Or bionics.

[Frosty]

If the officials could actually see the line on the field at the time, I wonder if it would subconsciously affect their ball placement when it was close?

[MagicHef]

Put a sensor in both tips of the ball, assuming each ball is the same shape, we could define the entire outer surface of the ball. Then you could have the furthest downfield point of the ball at any time. Sync it with the video, during replays the ref could freeze it at the moment a player was down/out of bounds, and you would have the exact position of the ball.

[DJ's left nut]

You will see a lot more fumbles as players stretch with the ball to get a first down. At the goal line this isn't as much of an issue since it is a TD once the ball breaks the plane. I think it would hurt the quality of the game.

I also like the fact that, right now, it takes a pretty savvy and alert player to know right where the sticks are at the center of the field and make the dive to reach the first down.

With this, there's just a bright ass green line that even a half-with like Snoop Minnis would be able to pick up.

I hate everything added to the game that detracts from any skill. It's why I don't like automated strike zones in baseball (pitching to an umpires zone is a skill). Knowing exactly where the sticks are and when/how you'll need to reach them without a bright green line running through the center of the field is a skill and I don't want to see that marginalized.

[DJ's left nut]

If the officials could actually see the line on the field at the time, I wonder if it would subconsciously affect their ball placement when it was close?

I don't see how it possibly couldn't.

Yeah, I think this would definitely hurt the game.

[Groves]

I've thought for a few years they should put RFID chips in the tips of the ball. It wouldn't be foolproof, but it would allow for more precision than the status quo.

But wouldn't be helpful in determining if a player had possession at that time.

[bevischief]

I've thought for a few years they should put RFID chips in the tips of the ball. It wouldn't be foolproof, but it would allow for more precision than the status quo.

That is good idea too.

[bevischief]

The NFL should test this out in a few stadiums or have a few colleges install it for season.

[EagleRob]

But wouldn't be helpful in determining if a player had possession at that time.

Brainstorming - if the players wore gloves and pads on the inside of the forearms that both had extremely low voltage across them, the chips in the tips of the ball could close a circuit while the ball was being carried. We might be on to something. If only GPS were precise to the inch level...

[Dayze]

For the Pro-Bowl, I'd love for the NFL to implement that the game be played with all the players using Segways on the field.

[okoye35chiefs]

will it effect future spygate videos?

[DaFace]

Brainstorming - if the players wore gloves and pads on the inside of the forearms that both had extremely low voltage across them, the chips in the tips of the ball could close a circuit while the ball was being carried. We might be on to something. If only GPS were precise to the inch level...

Even then, there are issues. How could you tell when the player is down? How do you tell the exact moment possession is gained (or lost)? After all, there are plenty of times when a player might have multiple points of contact with the ball before control is gained.

I'm not opposed to the crazy yellow line gizmo, but I'd think putting sensors in the ball would be a mess.

[Dayze]

I wish there was a way to improve the 'judgement calls'; I friggin' can't stand the spot foul for Defensive PI. Throwing it up and hoping for a penalty, is a play in an of itself IMO.

[Sorter]

I wish there was a way to improve the 'judgement calls'; I friggin' can't stand the spot foul for Defensive PI. Throwing it up and hoping for a penalty, is a play in an of itself IMO.

I like it personally. I just don't like how it is called, far too much inconsistency and prevalence during the regular season to call ticky-tack shit. Bowman would have been flagged in the regular season for his play on Roddy White, IMO.

[tooge]

sure, why not

[Nightfyre]

The only kind of first down laser I care about is the one that comes off our new QBs hand. It would be nice to feel like we actually had a chance to continue a drive on third down.

[EagleRob]

The only kind of first down laser I care about is the one that comes off our new QBs hand. It would be nice to feel like we actually had a chance to continue a drive on third down.

This

[Easy 6]

Big waste of money if you ask me, put that money to use coming up with a better helmet to protect the players health with, or something, anything else.

[KCrockaholic]

I love the idea. Not sure that it's perfect yet, but the idea is great.

[KCrockaholic]

Big waste of money if you ask me, put that money to use coming up with a better helmet to protect the players health with, or something, anything else.

They do that every year, and let's not act like they don't have the money to be able to do both. It's the NFL's pocket book.

[Dayze]

I like it personally. I just don't like how it is called, far too much inconsistency and prevalence during the regular season to call ticky-tack shit. Bowman would have been flagged in the regular season for his play on Roddy White, IMO.

that's a fair point.

Honestly, when I'm watching I have no idea what IS and IS NOT defensive PI anymore.

[Sorter]

that's a fair point.

Honestly, when I'm watching I have no idea what IS and IS NOT defensive PI anymore.

Totally. It has become fucking ridiculous.

I love watching physical DBs (Sherman, Carr, Flowers, Chancellor, Browner, Whitner, Brown, Revis, etc). It makes me crazy seeing guys get called for the weakest PI calls during the regular season.

[suds79]

Big waste of money if you ask me, put that money to use coming up with a better helmet to protect the players health with, or something, anything else.

I've been saying for a couple years now get rid of the hard shelled helmets. Boom. done.

certainly won't have guys launching themselves into guys like missiles anymore.

[Dayze]

I've been saying for a couple years now get rid of the hard shelled helmets. Boom. done.

certainly won't have guys launching themselves into guys like missiles anymore.

yep. shitty tackling. diving at a runner blindly / head down instead of head up tackling.

[Sorter]

I've been saying for a couple years now get rid of the hard shelled helmets. Boom. done.

certainly won't have guys launching themselves into guys like missiles anymore.

No, but there are several instances where the helmet protects (knees/elbows to the head).

I think it would be worse to remove helmets than try to improve them. Additionally, I'd love to see Rugby's concussion statistics over the past 15 years and the studies on brain damage in Rugby players.

[Easy 6]

I've been saying for a couple years now get rid of the hard shelled helmets. Boom. done.

certainly won't have guys launching themselves into guys like missiles anymore.

I'm not in favor of that idea whatsoever, it would take way too much physicality out of the game and lead to ALL kinds of inadvertant injuries... heads slamming to the turf, kicks to the head, all kinds of really nasty things would happen.

[Dayze]

wear motorcycle helmets lol

[DaFace]

I'm not in favor of that idea whatsoever, it would take way too much physicality out of the game and lead to ALL kinds of inadvertant injuries... heads slamming to the turf, kicks to the head, all kinds of really nasty things would happen.

It would change the game for sure (which is why I'm not in favor of it), but I recall an article from a year or two ago which suggested that injuries have actually INCREASED with extra safety equipment over time since players tend to play like their gear will always protect them.

[Dayze]

I remember reading something to that effect as well.

[FD]

I like the idea in a way. I dont think it should be on when the ball is in play, just too distracting, but for measurements flipping a switch and having the first down line appear on the field would be much better than walking the chains out.

[BlackHelicopters]

Everything is cooler with lasers. Ever been to a Pink Floyd show?

[Old Dog]

I've thought for a while that the easiest way to do it would be to put a laser on/embedded in the first down marker and then just flip it on to measure across rather than trot the chains out.
Keep a square on the base of the marker to assure it's not angled toward an end zone and put a template or something (could be something carried by the referee) to account for the crown of the field (which I believe is about 18").

[lcarus]

If you are at the game all you have to do is look for the bright orange down markers...like we have for years. The reason they are so helpful on TV is we can not see the down markers.

Totally not needed if you ask me.

I agree. Really not necessary, but if it didn't interfere with anything and worked properly, then hell, why not?

[Ace Gunner]

I remember my first flashlight. It was amazing.

[Easy 6]

It would change the game for sure (which is why I'm not in favor of it), but I recall an article from a year or two ago which suggested that injuries have actually INCREASED with extra safety equipment over time since players tend to play like their gear will always protect them.

I vaguely remember hearing about that, on the surface it makes sense but i just dont see how newer, better equipment could be an overall detriment.

Guys are so huge and fast now that removing some of the equipment to get them to ease up a bit wouldnt add up to the same level of safety that modern gear provides.

I'd hate to have this game become rugby, however close to our football it may be in some respects.

[hometeam]

I dont feel strongly either way about it, but I would be ok with it if they decided to do it. Take human error out of it.

[007]

I dont feel strongly either way about it, but I would be ok with it if they decided to do it. Take human error out of it.

:LOL:

[HMc]

I vaguely remember hearing about that, on the surface it makes sense but i just dont see how newer, better equipment could be an overall detriment.

Guys are so huge and fast now that removing some of the equipment to get them to ease up a bit wouldnt add up to the same level of safety that modern gear provides.

I'd hate to have this game become rugby, however close to our football it may be in some respects.

Helmets have made head injuries worse, there's no doubt about that.

[HMc]

the chain gang is the silliest thing in sports. the ref has to eyeball the spot, oftentimes an incredibly inexact science, but then they bring this incredibly exact measuring tool out. It's stupid.

[alanm]

This video is 10 yrs old. Apparently the idea was shit canned.