Red Light Camera Violation

[Huffmeister]

Has anyone here ever tried to contest a red light camera violation? Any luck?

Just got one in the mail yesterday, and I remember when it happened. I was rolling up in the right-hand turn lane and the light was green. There was a wet patch (possibly slick) just past the line, so I slowed down and continued with the turn. But when I looked up the light had changed to red and I saw the flash. I didn't even see the yellow light because I had my eye on the possibly icy patch. It seems like they shorten the length of yellow lights at those intersections so that they can nab more people.

Anyway, it's not that big of a deal. I was just wondering if there's a chance of it getting thrown out if I show up to court and explain the circumstances.

[MagicHef]

You were turning right? You wont get a ticket. It can't tell if you stopped or not, it only took the picture because you were in the intersection.

[Dr. Gigglepants]

You were turning right? You wont get a ticket. It can't tell if you stopped or not, it only took the picture because you were in the intersection.

Not true. There is a website on the ticket with video. At least there was with my ticket. It showed me turning right without coming to a complete stop.
Posted via Mobile Device

[MagicHef]

Oh, never mind, you already got a ticket. Just say you stopped and turned right. They only have a picture of you in the intersection, they don't know if you stopped or not.

I think.

[MagicHef]

Oh, they have video now? Pay the ticket.

[BigMeatballDave]

These are only fines.

It's not an actual moving violation that goes on your record.

That is how they are in Ohio. My sister got one in the Dayton area 2 years ago.

She failed to pay it and got a notice from a collection agency. No record of this with the courts.

[Imon Yourside]

These are only fines.

It's not an actual moving violation that goes on your record.

That is how they are in Ohio. My sister got one in the Dayton area 2 years ago.

She failed to pay it and got a notice from a collection agency. No record of this with the courts.

Seriously? wtf is this shit?

[Dr. Gigglepants]

Oh, they have video now? Pay the ticket.

ol, when I got the ticket you could tell by the picture I was turning right. I got all uppity and said I was going to fight it all the way to the MAYOR's office! Kidding about that but I was going to fight it until I went and checked what was on the website, it was a video showing me roll through the red light, illegal by the letter of the law, but pretty scammy nonetheless. $100 fucking dollars for not coming to a complete stop before turning right.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigMeatballDave]

Seriously? wtf is this shit?

It's a way for cities to generate revenue.

They can't issue an actual citation if they can't prove who was driving the car.

The cameras where my sister was caught are set to photograph the plates.

[Fire Me Boy!]

ol, when I got the ticket you could tell by the picture I was turning right. I got all uppity and said I was going to fight it all the way to the MAYOR's office! Kidding about that but I was going to fight it until I went and checked what was on the website, it was a video showing me roll through the red light, illegal by the letter of the law, but pretty scammy nonetheless. $100 ****ing dollars for not coming to a complete stop before turning right.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's a stop sign, not a slow down sign. And it's a law, not a suggestion.

[Dr. Gigglepants]

It's a stop sign, not a slow down sign. And it's a law, not a suggestion.

Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

[FlaChief58]

ol, when I got the ticket you could tell by the picture I was turning right. I got all uppity and said I was going to fight it all the way to the MAYOR's office! Kidding about that but I was going to fight it until I went and checked what was on the website, it was a video showing me roll through the red light, illegal by the letter of the law, but pretty scammy nonetheless. $100 fucking dollars for not coming to a complete stop before turning right.
Posted via Mobile Device

As much as I hate to say it but, I think the camras are a good thing. Intersection accidents were getting out of control down here because so many dumbasses thought that yellow meant "floor that bitch".

[Huffmeister]

It's a stop sign, not a slow down sign. And it's a law, not a suggestion.

Actually, its a stop light, not a stop sign. Stop signs don' give you a half second warning before they appear.

[Deberg_1990]

California stop. Pay up

[Clyde Frog]

Pay it before it doubles

[Huffmeister]

Actually, its a stop light, not a stop sign. Stop signs don' give you a half second warning before they appear.

I was able to view the video of the incident online, and it was yellow for much longer than a half a second. Upon further review, I was clearly in the wrong. The light was yellow before I even entered the frame, and it turned red a split second before I hit the line.

So I'll take my lumps and pay the fine. It mentions that it's "an ordinance violation and no points will be assessed", so at least I don't have to worry about that.

[Valiant]

Find out how long the light should be for yellow. There are a lot of lights not timed properly. See if it is within the time. The cameras are a farce and just revenue for a 3rd party.

You can also contest and state the road conditons and ic3.

[Frosty]

Find out how long the light should be for yellow. There are a lot of lights not timed properly. See if it is within the time. The cameras are a farce and just revenue for a 3rd party.

Quite a few cities that have installed red light cameras have shortened the yellow time to increase revenues.

[Radar Chief]

It seems like they shorten the length of yellow lights at those intersections so that they can nab more people.

Are you saying its more about generating revenue than safety? I’m shocked, SHOCKED I say.

[Predarat]

These things are scams between the companies that run them and the local governments. The cameras should not be legal to begin with. Then they send them late so you also get charged a late fee and the company will claim they sent it to you before. It is then up to you to prove they did not send it.

[A Salt Weapon]

Contest it, they have no way to prove you were driving. Your wife/husband was driving the car and you can not be forced to testify against a spouse. Done deal.

[Radar Chief]

These things are scams between the companies that run them and the local governments. The cameras should not be legal to begin with. Then they send them late so you also get charged a late fee and the company will claim they sent it to you before. It is then up to you to prove they did not send it.

Now that’s just crazy talk. :harumph:

[okoye35chiefs]

The last two times I got ticketed "I made a donation to the court" and they waived the ticket and accepted my donation.

It didn't go on my record. They don't let you do it all the time though~

[tooge]

pay the ticket and then make sure you stop at the red light from now on.

[The Bunk]

These are only fines.

It's not an actual moving violation that goes on your record.

That is how they are in Ohio. My sister got one in the Dayton area 2 years ago.

She failed to pay it and got a notice from a collection agency. No record of this with the courts.

In Missouri if you don't pay, they will issue a warrant.

[Chief Gump]

In Missouri if you don't pay, they will issue a warrant.

Do they send the letter as a certified letter? If they don't they can never prove you received the letter.

[BigMeatballDave]

In Missouri if you don't pay, they will issue a warrant.

Shitty operation.

What if someone is driving your car?

[bobbymitch]

Shitty operation.

What if someone is driving your car?

You get the privilege of ratting out who was driving so they can pay the fine.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Contest it, they have no way to prove you were driving. Your wife/husband was driving the car and you can not be forced to testify against a spouse. Done deal.

Unless I'm mistaken, they issue the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle. Same for if you loan your car out to a friend and he doesn't feed the meter. You're still responsible.

[A Salt Weapon]

Unless I'm mistaken, they issue the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle. Same for if you loan your car out to a friend and he doesn't feed the meter. You're still responsible.

Ahh, okay I can fix that. Register the vehicle under both the wife and husband names. Then they have to mail the ticket to either one of them or both. I thought the tickets had a spot to claim who was driving if it wasn't the owner. Then revert to the can't be forced to testify against a spouse.

Make no mistake, I am no laywer. This might not be sound legal advice, but it sounds like it has potential.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Ahh, okay I can fix that. Register the vehicle under both the wife and husband names. Then they have to mail the ticket to either one of them or both. I thought the tickets had a spot to claim who was driving if it wasn't the owner. Then revert to the can't be forced to testify against a spouse.

Make no mistake, I am no laywer. This might not be sound legal advice, but it sounds like it has potential.

You're no laywer, but are you a lawyer?

Pretty sure this wouldn't work. But I'm not a laywer, either.

[FlaChief58]

You're no laywer, but are you a lawyer?

Pretty sure this wouldn't work. But I'm not a laywer, either.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night

[Iowanian]

These aren't fines...they're city taxes you can't fight.

[CoMoChief]

take a picture of $100 and mail it in
**** the local revenue generating govt.

[KChiefer]

Sorry to hear it was more blatant on the video. A few years ago, I rolled through a red light right in front of an officer. There was freezing rain though, and I told him I decided I'd rather keep going than slide to a stop in the middle of the intersection. He could have also hit me with "driving too fast for conditions" but he was one of the nice ones.

[A Salt Weapon]

You're no laywer, but are you a lawyer?

Pretty sure this wouldn't work. But I'm not a laywer, either.

ROFL
:banghead:

Well played.

[Huffmeister]

Unless I'm mistaken, they issue the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle. Same for if you loan your car out to a friend and he doesn't feed the meter. You're still responsible.

Yup, that's exactly it. From the paperwork:
As a registered owner of this vehicle you are responsible for payment of this ticket regardless of who was driving it at the time of this violation.

I had heard that people had fought them in the past by claiming that they couldn't prove who was driving, but apparently KCMO closed that loop hole.

[Chief Pote]

Or you can buy one of these for the next ripoff redlight camera.

http://shopping.photomaskcover.com/?matchtype=b&mobile=&creative=8976391753&keyword=license%20plate%20shield&placement=&gclid=COLi09_M_7QCFQ-e4AodhzYA-A

[KChiefer]

Or you can buy one of these for the next ripoff redlight camera.

http://shopping.photomaskcover.com/?matchtype=b&mobile=&creative=8976391753&keyword=license%20plate%20shield&placement=&gclid=COLi09_M_7QCFQ-e4AodhzYA-A


Mythbusters busted many ways people try to cover their plates. And even if one does work, it's illegal in some states to have them at all and in others you're likely to be ticketed if an officer notices the cover is polarized.

[BlackHelicopters]

Pay the gubment what it says. Include some extra, because they know what is best.

[stonedstooge]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6NEFYCaKakE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mlyonsd]

Any ticket should be considered bull shit if a police officer didn't witness it and is willing to testify in a court of law.

In Iowa red light cameras only create revenue. Offenses aren't submitted to your insurance company or show up on your DMV records. Guy at work (raider fan) has received two red light tickets in the past three years and refused to pay either of them. His insurance has not gone up and he's renewed his plates twice. The only thing he hasn't tried to do yet is renew his driver's license so we don't know about that.

On a side topic, speed cameras in Iowa are the same thing. Here's an interesting story from the local paper that makes you wonder why anyone pays the fine:

SIOUX CITY | An Oregon man who got a speeding ticket after his rental car was snapped by a traffic camera on Interstate 29 in Sioux City claims he was hundreds of miles away at the time and has witnesses and documents to prove it.

Ken Benkstein thinks the only logical explanation for his $168 ticket is that the camera equipment malfunctioned, recording the date incorrectly when a different customer had the car.

His story and supporting documents seem credible, but city officials didn't back down. They said the evidence is on the citation, which shows the car, with a closeup of the rear license plate, was recorded traveling north at 65 mph in a 55 mph zone at 10:15 a.m. Sept. 11 at I-29 mile marker 151.

That's at the Riverside exit in Sioux City. Benkstein and colleagues from his West Des Moines public relations and marketing firm, Meyocks Group, insist they were meeting in West Des Moines, about 200 miles from Sioux City, that morning and later went to Ames, Iowa.

Company Senior Vice President James Head said Wednesday he and the other employees were dumbfounded when they learned Benkstein, who commutes from his home in McMinnville, Ore., had received the $168 speeding ticket for the day he spent with them.

“It defies any logic," Head said. “Ken’s car was in our parking lot when we left for Ames, and it was there when we returned” less than four hours later.

“Ken’s rental cars are absolutely not shared with other employees,” Head wrote in an Oct. 22 letter to the Sioux City Police Department.

“It’s not like we were drinking buddies and saying we’ll help you fight this thing,” Head told me Wednesday. “What we said didn’t seem to count. From my perspective, the city should have understood there was a mistake somewhere in the machinery.”

Two other colleagues and Benkstein himself wrote to city officials. Dollar Thrifty Automotive Group, based in Tulsa, Okla., wrote a letter stating Benkstein had rented the car on Sept. 9 at the Des Moines airport, returned it Sept 14 and driven it 230 miles. Benkstein also sent a copy of the receipt for the car rental and a Google document showing the distance from the airport to Sioux City as 199 miles -- a round trip of nearly 400 miles.

That was after he had called the police department and the city attorney's office and tried unsuccessfully to resolve the issue.

Sioux City started installing traffic cameras in 2009, and although many motorists have complained about their tickets, city officials said Benkstein's case may be a first.

“We’ve never had an incident where the camera equipment has been off,” City Attorney Nicole Jensen-Harris told me last week, adding the only issue for the city was that the car was in Sioux City when the violation took place. “That’s all we’re required to prove.”

The city did check with Dollar Thrifty but was told Benkstein's mileage could not be verified.

However, late Friday afternoon, a Dollar Thrifty official contacted the police department saying it would pay the fine to RedFlex, the company that operates the cameras. As of Wednesday afternoon, Dollar Thrifty hadn't returned my calls and emails asking what spurred the decision.

Benkstein had just mailed his payment to the RedFlex processing center in Cleveland. When the company receives the two payments, it will work with the city to refund his money, RedFlex spokeswoman Jody Ryan of Phoenix said.

She also said the staff wasn't aware of any erroneous date stamps on citations "in recent history."

Benkstein, 61, who lived in Cedar Rapids and Des Moines for 20 years before moving to Oregon in 2002, said he hasn't been in Sioux City since 2000.

“If I had actually done the crime, I would have owned up to it and paid the ticket,” he said. “What we have is a confluence of robots and real human beings here.”

Sometimes, humans score a surprise win over technology.

“I think I have a happy ending,” Benkstein said.

http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/columnists/zerschling/zerschling-mystery-speeding-ticket-does-the-camera-lie/article_c6538040-aa7d-5620-9b67-d79c1413323a.html

To me both are bull shit in the first degree and only used to raise money.

One other thing, the city of Sioux City didn't buy the speed cameras, instead the company that builds them gave them to the city and is given a cut per ticket. If that isn't a recipe for corruption nothing is.

[Valiant]

Unless I'm mistaken, they issue the ticket to the registered owner of the vehicle. Same for if you loan your car out to a friend and he doesn't feed the meter. You're still responsible.

I am not sure about that in KC.. There was a article on one of the news stations.. All contested tickets were dropped.. Because it costs too much to go to court over them and pay the police officers to review them because the 3rd party company I believe in Arizona gets most of the money..

[The Bunk]

Do they send the letter as a certified letter? If they don't they can never prove you received the letter.

Mine came as a regular letter. I went ahead and paid it. I just knew Barney Fife that had been on the force for two weeks was just waiting to pounce on me.

[go bo]

Any ticket should be considered bull shit if a police officer didn't witness it and is willing to testify in a court of law.

In Iowa red light cameras only create revenue. Offenses aren't submitted to your insurance company or show up on your DMV records. Guy at work (raider fan) has received two red light tickets in the past three years and refused to pay either of them. His insurance has not gone up and he's renewed his plates twice. The only thing he hasn't tried to do yet is renew his driver's license so we don't know about that.

On a side topic, speed cameras in Iowa are the same thing. Here's an interesting story from the local paper that makes you wonder why anyone pays the fine:



http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/columnists/zerschling/zerschling-mystery-speeding-ticket-does-the-camera-lie/article_c6538040-aa7d-5620-9b67-d79c1413323a.html

To me both are bull shit in the first degree and only used to raise money.

One other thing, the city of Sioux City didn't buy the speed cameras, instead the company that builds them gave them to the city and is given a cut per ticket. If that isn't a recipe for corruption nothing is.

i admit it's a combover...

[hometeam]

As much as I hate to say it but, I think the camras are a good thing. Intersection accidents were getting out of control down here because so many dumbasses thought that yellow meant "floor that bitch".

Maybe we should put cameras in all public places! That way no bad guys could ever get us!

[Tombstone RJ]

take a picture of $100 and mail it in
**** the local revenue generating govt.

:LOL:

I got a ticket in the mail too. They got me going like 55 in a 35 or something like that. It was on a major street in the middle of Denver and I had just exited the highway and I didn't slow down enough I guess. The thing is the picture was of the entire front of my jeep. So they had my picture (I was wearing some fantastic shades too, looking good) and my license plate, and the make and model of my car. So I was pretty much screwed. I should have taken a picture of the check and mailed that instead of the actual check, that's just a fantastic idea! :p

[cosmo20002]

I got out of my red light ticket in KCMO about a year ago. The truth was that I actually wasn't driving, but they sent me the ticket because the car was in my name. I was actually out of town and had an airfare and hotel receipt.

I called the prosecutor's office and explained I had this info that I could fax/e-mail them and asked them to drop the charge. They said no, I had to show up at my court date if I wanted to contest it.

I go to court and talk to the prosecutor beforehand--showed my receipts. They said I had to fill out a form--which included naming who was actually driving. I said, "I shouldn't have to give someone's name--I wasn't even present at the incident, so I don't have first-hand knowledge anyway. Don't you need to prove it was me driving? I have evidence here showing it couldn't have been me. How can you still press charges?"

Prosecutor said he was not allowed to drop red light charges. So I had to wait my turn for the judge. Gave the judge my receipts and he asked who was driving. I said, "I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure." He didn't press me about it and dismissed the charge.

So, I didn't have to pay, but it was still a complete pain in the ass, especially considering I didn't actually commit the violation. In principle, I don't necessarily think the cameras are bad, but I do think it is complete BS that they don't have to prove you are the one driving by at least getting your face in the photo.

[redgoldexpress]

My wife and I just went to court for a red light violation. It was not because of a camera but an officer supposedly saw my wife run a red light. I happened to be in the car when this happened, and we were in the intersection when the light turned red. An Independence PD officer in an unmarked turned on the discos and pulled us over and gave us a ticket. When we received the ticket in the mail, we went to the courthouse to contest the ticket, once we got in front of the judge the officer said that he just looked at the video right before he came across the street to the courthouse. The judge granted a continuance for last week, in which the judge requested the officer to bring in the copy of the tape. Once we got in front of the judge the officer again explained what happened and stated that the dash cam footage of the violation had been purged and that he did not have the video evidence. The judge then asked my wife to explain her side of the story in which she did. After about 10 seconds the judge fined us with court cost the fine was $100.00. I in turned asked the judge why did he side with the officer when it is up the accuser to prove if you are guilty after all you are "innocent until proven guilty" the judge said that you could file an appeal. When we asked about the appeal process it would have cost us another $160-$170 to file the appeal in which we could of not "won" our money back. So we just decided to pay the $100 and call it good.

[ThaVirus]

My wife and I just went to court for a red light violation. It was not because of a camera but an officer supposedly saw my wife run a red light. I happened to be in the car when this happened, and we were in the intersection when the light turned red. An Independence PD officer in an unmarked turned on the discos and pulled us over and gave us a ticket. When we received the ticket in the mail, we went to the courthouse to contest the ticket, once we got in front of the judge the officer said that he just looked at the video right before he came across the street to the courthouse. The judge granted a continuance for last week, in which the judge requested the officer to bring in the copy of the tape. Once we got in front of the judge the officer again explained what happened and stated that the dash cam footage of the violation had been purged and that he did not have the video evidence. The judge then asked my wife to explain her side of the story in which she did. After about 10 seconds the judge fined us with court cost the fine was $100.00. I in turned asked the judge why did he side with the officer when it is up the accuser to prove if you are guilty after all you are "innocent until proven guilty" the judge said that you could file an appeal. When we asked about the appeal process it would have cost us another $160-$170 to file the appeal in which we could of not "won" our money back. So we just decided to pay the $100 and call it good.

The good ol' justice system at work right there.

[redgoldexpress]

The good ol' justice system at work right there.

Yeah I know tell me about it.

[verbaljitsu]

I am a lawyer. I have had about ten of these dismissed in the last year. They can't make them. However, they fight tooth and nail when a pro se defendant tries to fight them. They quietly dismiss them when a lawyer appears. The problem is they set the fine amount almost perfectly. I need to charge about $100 to make it worth the effort. So the only people that make sense to hire me have like 5 red light tickets or more serious companion charges.

You absolutely cannot ignore them. They will issue warrants. Eventually you could get your license suspended.

[Predarat]

I want to take a baseball bat or hammer and beat the shit out of every Red Light camera ever made.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Actually, its a stop light, not a stop sign. Stop signs don' give you a half second warning before they appear.

neither do stop lights. light durations, including yellows, are mandated by DOT regs.

[Frazod]

Naperville actually removed the damned things. Thank God.

[MahiMike]

They just started putting these in here in Jax. I'm kinda glad actually. Here, if you don't run a red light, you're likely to get rear-ended by 3 more cars behind you.

[Valiant]

I want to take a baseball bat or hammer and beat the shit out of every Red Light camera ever made.

Offer young kids to paintball the cameras.. No real damage, just have to wait for them to be cleaned.. hypothetically of course..

[houstonwhodat]

In Texas they tried to outlaw them.

A cop told me that it's not a moving violation because a cop has to personally write that type of ticket.

[Tombstone RJ]

it's nothing more than a revenue stream for local municipalities IMHO. It's understandable why so many towns are trying to use this system because it generates revenue which is a positive, it "may" prevent accidents and it frees up law enforcement to concentrate on other things like bustin' hardened criminals and eat'n deep fried donuts!

[Saulbadguy]

Ignore it. Don't pay.

[JoeyChuckles]

This thread
is useless
without pics.


Damn.

[baitism]

Got one in KCMO about 7 years ago. Never paid it. Nothing has happened.