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Tribal Warfare
01-26-2013, 01:17 AM
Colin Kaepernick can't cash in (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/10spot-12week21/super-bowl-xlvii-colin-kaepernick-russell-wilson-cash-in)

San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick has found holes in opposing defenses and the CBA.

Thanks to the collective bargaining agreement that the NFL and NFLPA negotiated in July 2011, what San Francisco is paying Kaepernick to take the team to Super Bowl XLVII is a steal. And the Seattle Seahawks are paying even less to quarterback Russell Wilson, who took the team to the divisional playoff round and set up the franchise for the next decade.

There might not be two athletes in any sport as underpaid as Kaepernick and Wilson, two NFC West quarterbacks who figure to square off for years to come. It's off-the-charts ridiculousness, their salaries. It's thievery, nearly criminal.

Sixty minutes from a world championship, Kaepernick is finishing up Year Two of a four-year, $5.12 million deal that is worth more than $3 million less in full than what Mark Sanchez will make from the New York Jets next season.

Yet Kaepernick has no out. He is locked into the deal until after the 2013 season.

Wilson's deal is even more glaringly incongruous. He signed a four-year, $2.99 million deal that is worth $6 million less in full than what Kevin Kolb is scheduled to make from Seattle's division rival Arizona Cardinals next season.

Like Kaepernick, Wilson has no way out. He is stuck with the deal until after the 2014 season, despite being added to the Pro Bowl this week and looking like he could go for years to come.

These two deals expose one of the biggest weaknesses in the CBA for the players and one of the biggest strengths for owners. Young NFL players have no choice but to suck it up for three years, even if they play at the level Kaepernick and Wilson have. Meanwhile, NFL owners get to build cheaply through the draft and own players' rights for five to six years, without the threat of arbitration that Major League Baseball has.

This is why good scouting and draft picks really are more valuable than ever before. The NFL never has seen good labor this cheap for this long.

How the league got here is easy enough to understand. During the most recent CBA negotiations, we saw an extreme backlash against the outlandish deals given to top draft picks in previous years, when a player such as former No. 1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell walked away with $32 million in guaranteed money. So much attention was given to the issue that standout rookies in the new 10-year CBA now are being punished for it. In part because of Russell, Kaepernick and Wilson are underpaid.

There is no reprieve, no chance to be paid until a player has given a team three seasons. By then, some running backs, such as an Alfred Morris, will have plenty of wear on their tires. And as everyone prepares for Super Bowl XLVII, the storylines that follow it will be different than in the past.

[+] Enlarge
Ric Tapia/Icon SMI/CORBIS
The Seahawks get to hang onto Russell Wilson at his current bargain price for two more seasons.
Young players such as Kaepernick who help lead their team to the Super Bowl cannot demand new deals the way they seemed to regularly in the past. It used to be like this: Player helps team to Super Bowl, player demands new deal, team rewards player for helping team, new deal gets done.

But that was old-school. New-school is the ultimate form of detention for standout young players. The CBA locks up their contracts for three years and throws away the key, with no chance of parole.

It would be much more equitable if certain allowances were made for extreme examples, players who glaringly outplay expectations. It would be hard to define what that level of play is, but suffice it to say that everyone would know. Any player who helps lead his team to the Super Bowl in his second year, as Kaepernick has done, or goes to the Pro Bowl in his first year, the way Wilson has, deserves to be rewarded, at least more than his existing rookie deal does.

Until the rules are adjusted, the players will continue to be wronged. And after watching Kaepernick and Wilson this season and seeing what they will earn in future seasons, one truth is self-evident: The holes in the CBA are a lot bigger than any they find in opposing defenses.

Bump
01-26-2013, 01:18 AM
he;s gonna win the superbowl, because Jim > John

SPchief
01-26-2013, 01:24 AM
O/U on a strike by the Union?

I'll start it at 4 years.

mikey23545
01-26-2013, 01:26 AM
Goddam, people bitch for years that rookies shouldn't be getting huge contracts when they haven't played a down in the NFL and veteran players don't get raises they deserve because so much money is tied up in those rookies...So they fix that in the new CBA and now they're bitching the rookies should be making more...LMAO

RealSNR
01-26-2013, 01:35 AM
no1curr

chefs fan in omaha
01-26-2013, 01:51 AM
I'm sure both will hold out of training camp until they get a raise.

saphojunkie
01-26-2013, 02:09 AM
I'm sure both will hold out of training camp until they get a raise.

I'm more sure that you don't understand the CBA.

munkey
01-26-2013, 02:09 AM
Goddam, people bitch for years that rookies shouldn't be getting huge contracts when they haven't played a down in the NFL and veteran players don't get raises they deserve because so much money is tied up in those rookies...So they fix that in the new CBA and now they're bitching the rookies should be making more...LMAO

lol..you took the words right out of my mouth...

Ebolapox
01-26-2013, 02:10 AM
so you're telling me that they can't get endorsement deals either? wow.

yeah, they're going to clean up in endorsements.

Discuss Thrower
01-26-2013, 02:31 AM
O/U on a strike by the Union?

I'll start it at 4 years.

Eh, I could see it.

007
01-26-2013, 02:35 AM
OH boo hooo. That change to the CBA was sorely needed. Perform then get paid. Not the other way around.

CoMoChief
01-26-2013, 05:36 AM
Tough shit....gotta pay your dues.

bevischief
01-26-2013, 06:18 AM
They can't do anything till year 3, the new CBA. This is not new news.

htismaqe
01-26-2013, 07:16 AM
Goddam, people bitch for years that rookies shouldn't be getting huge contracts when they haven't played a down in the NFL and veteran players don't get raises they deserve because so much money is tied up in those rookies...So they fix that in the new CBA and now they're bitching the rookies should be making more...LMAO

:clap::clap::clap:

headsnap
01-26-2013, 07:26 AM
so you're telling me that they can't get endorsement deals either? wow.

yeah, they're going to clean up in endorsements.

Kaepernick has tattoos and stuff!!!111!!!!!!!!!1!1!

Bob Dole
01-26-2013, 08:34 AM
Awww. Bob Dole feels terrible for the guy who will make a minimum of $5.12 million in his first 4 years out of college. How will he ever pay back those student loans???

Oh wait...he probably doesn't have any of those.

KC Jones
01-26-2013, 08:35 AM
I have no problem with rookies only making a few million for 3 years before they can get a huge contract.

stonedstooge
01-26-2013, 08:38 AM
I would love to see the NFL go to a play for pay method of salary determination for players.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 08:42 AM
So? He shouldn't make out like a bandit for 9 fucking games. Let him prove it with sustained play.

htismaqe
01-26-2013, 08:45 AM
So? He shouldn't make out like a bandit for 9 fucking games. Let him prove it with sustained play.

This.

the Talking Can
01-26-2013, 08:52 AM
he got paid a full year for not taking a snap....or is that not part of the equation?

BigMeatballDave
01-26-2013, 08:54 AM
Prove your worth, then get paid.

What is wrong with that?

Marcellus
01-26-2013, 09:04 AM
The pussification of the NFL and US in general continues.

How do these "journalist" have jobs? That's the bigger question. Shefter is getting paid to write this tripe?

This isn't a fucking story, its how it works.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 09:12 AM
I'm sure he's starving

KCUnited
01-26-2013, 09:16 AM
Karen Kornacki worries how Kaepernick will be able to afford xmas.

Hoover
01-26-2013, 09:20 AM
So you're telling me we should draft a Qb....

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 09:25 AM
So you're telling me we should draft a Qb....

Too risky. I'm thinking 5 backup O-lineman.

Chief Roundup
01-26-2013, 09:26 AM
Oh so a player can't hold a team hostage. So a player finds themselves on the other side. A lot of players, sanchez, make tooo much but yet there isn't a clause to reduce thier contracts.
Life is a bitch and so on.

BigMeatballDave
01-26-2013, 09:42 AM
They get extra money for post-season games.

I think it's $150,000 for a SB run.

Not bad for a month of work.

:)

SAUTO
01-26-2013, 09:45 AM
I would love to see the NFL go to a play for pay method of salary determination for players.

The saints tried that
Posted via Mobile Device

HotCarl
01-26-2013, 09:49 AM
It's not really new that a player has a breakout year, and is not making a huge salary that year. You don't usually get paid like a star in advance of becoming one.

htismaqe
01-26-2013, 09:51 AM
he got paid a full year for not taking a snap....or is that not part of the equation?

Oopsie.

:thumb:

KC Tattoo
01-26-2013, 09:52 AM
A couple things to bull shit with for Oh well life is a box of chocolates.

He could also get a career ending injury & miss out on the big pay day.

He could make $$$$$$$$$ with endorcements like giving away free pizza for pizza hut.


If he can't make extra dough on indorcement deals then WTF is wrong with him?

mikey23545
01-26-2013, 09:52 AM
It's not really new that a player has a breakout year, and is not making a huge salary that year. You don't usually get paid like a star in advance of becoming one.

The next CBA will require that all GMs be psychic and pay their new draftees according to what they will do in their first couple of years.

SAUTO
01-26-2013, 09:53 AM
I want an indorcement deal
Posted via Mobile Device

OrtonsPiercedTaint
01-26-2013, 10:04 AM
They'll take it out in pussy. That shit adds up fast.

BossChief
01-26-2013, 10:29 AM
Russel Wilson has it worse.

KC Tattoo
01-26-2013, 10:38 AM
And yet Matt Cassel lives...

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-26-2013, 10:46 AM
If they are capable of sustained success, which means they are actually worthy of getting paid, they'll get $100 million dollar deals. I think it'll end up cool in the end.

However, if the NFL would like to find a middle ground by taking away about $48 million of Tyson Jackson's money and distributing it to worthy players, I'd be cool with that.

houstonwhodat
01-26-2013, 10:50 AM
I want an indorcement deal
Posted via Mobile Device

ROFL LMAO :clap:

houstonwhodat
01-26-2013, 10:50 AM
How much is Andrew Luck making?

boogblaster
01-26-2013, 11:10 AM
money .. oh the thoughts .....

Sorter
01-26-2013, 11:52 AM
Both Wilson and Kaep are going to be more than taken care of via sponsors/endorsements.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 11:54 AM
The saints tried that
Posted via Mobile Device

Shit, the Doncos have been paying guys under the table for YEARS

Rausch
01-26-2013, 11:56 AM
Both Wilson and Kaep are going to be more than taken care of via sponsors/endorsements.

This.

I think the NFL is doing the right thing. These guys have done it for 1 year or less. Their contracts being smaller allows proven vets to get theirs...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:27 PM
I think it's a gross injustice in all honesty...especially for a guy like Alfred Morris. I think players should be able to renegotiate their contracts whenever they want, you know, since NFL teams can cut them whenever they want

Rausch
01-26-2013, 12:28 PM
I think it's a gross injustice in all honesty...especially for a guy like Alfred Morris. I think players should be able to renegotiate their contracts whenever they want, you know, since NFL teams can cut them whenever they want

ONLY with great penalty...

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 12:36 PM
I think it's a gross injustice in all honesty...especially for a guy like Alfred Morris. I think players should be able to renegotiate their contracts whenever they want, you know, since NFL teams can cut them whenever they want

Again, if he sucks the next year is he going to then give the money back?

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:37 PM
ONLY with great penalty...

Cutting a 2nd rounder comes with great penalty? Uhm, no.

mnchiefsguy
01-26-2013, 12:38 PM
meh.....Wilson and Kapernick will both get endorsement deals that will probably pay them more than their contracts... I am not going to lose any sleep over this.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 12:40 PM
Soooooooooooooooooooooooo much better than the travesty of paying these clowns as much as they were previously getting. Make them earn it.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:42 PM
Again, if he sucks the next year is he going to then give the money back?

Not the point. Wilson and Kaepernick will eventually get mega contracts but it's unfair they play the PRESTIGE position and play it an elite level and their salaries have barely made them millionaires...they should be able to renegotiate whenever they please.

The real injustice is the Alfred Morris' of the NFL...that dude has a 3-5 year shelf life so he'll basically never earn what he deserves after the year he just had.

It's always going to be a flawed system...hopefully the agents of Wilson and Kaep can land them some high paying endorsements in the meantime

Rausch
01-26-2013, 12:43 PM
Cutting a 2nd rounder comes with great penalty? Uhm, no.

Not now.

Your first year out of college should someone be forced to pay you guaranteed money to hire you?

That happen anywhere else?

The NFL has realized the absurdity in it as well...

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 12:43 PM
Don't care. One season (or half season) does not a career make. Morris will get paid if he keeps it up. If he doesn't, he'll be out of a job like anyone else that doesn't perform in their field.


If they don't like it, they can buy a Papa Johns or some shit.

Deberg_1990
01-26-2013, 12:44 PM
For every 1 or 2 Kaepernicks and Wilsons, there are about 100 rookie washouts or players performing at average contract level.


NFL is doing it right.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 12:44 PM
Soooooooooooooooooooooooo much better than the travesty of paying these clowns as much as they were previously getting. Make them earn it.

This.

And you better believe that if you're a top 5 guy you WILL be compensated when your contract his up...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:45 PM
Soooooooooooooooooooooooo much better than the travesty of paying these clowns as much as they were previously getting. Make them earn it.

You're off on this...

I agree, the pay scale for the first 10 picks is awesome but this wouldn't have ever applied to Wilson or Kaep because they weren't "lottery" picks...

At least in the old CBA these guys who are gems that grossly outplay their contracts could at least get paid and that's their right as professionals

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 12:47 PM
You're off on this...

I agree, the pay scale for the first 10 picks is awesome but this wouldn't have ever applied to Wilson or Kaep because they weren't "lottery" picks...

At least in the old CBA these guys who are gems that grossly outplay their contracts could at least get paid and that's their right as professionals

If they keep it up, they'll get paid. Simple as that. Right now they don't deserve a mega deal.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:48 PM
If they keep it up, they'll get paid. Simple as that. Right now they don't deserve a mega deal.

Wilson and Kaepernick don't deserve a mega deal?

That's ridiculous.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
3rd - 7th round picks are the lowest paid players in the NFL because they are EXPECTED to be "washouts" with very little success rates of being star caliber or even starting caliber.

The ones that do hit (like Wilson) should be able to rework his contract JUST LIKE the NFL can simply cut guys like Pat White after 1 season with very little impact...

look, the wage scale for the first 15 picks was ABSOLUTELY necessary...paying Sam Bradford $60M guaranteed had to stop. They have this right now. The fact they get paid like quality players and are fully guaranteed makes total, 100% sense.

That's not the argument.

And I'm sure the agents for Kaep and Wilson can make them a lot of $$$ in endorsements, so whatever. They'll live.

The real injustice is for a guy like Alfred Wilson. He has, at best, a 5 year window to make enough money to live comfortably for the rest of his life. This is his JOB, his PROFESSION, and unlike you and me he can't work for 50 years in this profession.

If he's outplaying other backs who make MILLIONS, he should be able to request a better contract after a year he had this year. Instead he's locked in for $300K per year for his first 3 years and if he wants to rework his contract after 3 years his team still has ALL of the leverage so odds are he's going to have to settle for $0.50 on the $1 even when he gets to finally rework his deal anyways.

It's a bullshit flaw in the CBA. Players should be able to rework their deals whenever they want...us fans think holdouts suck and are annoying but that doesn't matter, this is their LIVELIHOOD. If our jobs aren't paying us enough we put in resumes for other jobs and look for better pay and more security...you guys saying NFL players shouldn't have that luxury is ignorant.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
Wilson and Kaepernick don't deserve a mega deal?

That's ridiculous.

Again. If they show consistency and aren't flash in the pans they will hit the JACKPOT.

You act like they are making minimum wage dude ROFL

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 12:56 PM
It's a very moot point. Kaep is only locked into his deal until after NEXT season. If he plays lights out again he'll get PAID. If he doesn't, he won't earn one.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 12:59 PM
Again. If they show consistency and aren't flash in the pans they will hit the JACKPOT.

You act like they are making minimum wage dude ROFL

Russell Wilson is making NFL minimum wage. It's an absolute gross injustice after the year he had and the position he plays.

If you're the most important person in your fortune 500 company and you make your boss $100 million dollars and he pays you $30K a year and doesn't give you a bonus...

would you say..."meh, maybe if I do it again next year he'll upgrade my pay!" ??

Just because $300K is a lot to you doesn't mean Russell Wilson isn't grossly underpaid for his profession. The NFL is the ULTIMATE violent sport where ANYTHING can happen to ANYONE...Wilson could take one hit and get paralyzed in preseason next year.

These players who outperform their contracts, especially 3rd-7th round young players, should have the luxury to rework their deals to ensure themselves financial security WHENEVER they want. They are PROFESSIONALS. This is their JOB.

The only reason we as fans like all of this is because we will no longer see Chris Johnson holdouts or Sam Bradford mega deals...which is fine for us, but disgustingly unfair to guys like Russell Wilson (and even Chris Johnson had he not been able to get his deal)

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:01 PM
After 2014, he'll have a damn money pit and be swimming in cash. All he has to do is have 2 solid seasons of play. Kaep only needs one.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:03 PM
It's a very moot point. Kaep is only locked into his deal until after NEXT season. If he plays lights out again he'll get PAID. If he doesn't, he won't earn one.

he's already earned one

he's earned the right to get paid like a top tier NFL starting QB; he is the best player on a team he has favored to win the Super Bowl

saying he hasn't earned the right to rework a contract that pays him less than many 3rd string NFL veteran QB's is simply ignorant

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:04 PM
Well, thanks for the discussion Hootie. I get what you are saying, but show that consistency and earn that contract!!

kcxiv
01-26-2013, 01:05 PM
The pussification of the NFL and US in general continues.

How do these "journalist" have jobs? That's the bigger question. Shefter is getting paid to write this tripe?

This isn't a ****ing story, its how it works.

im sure he's writing this on behalf of the agents, the same agents that give him news to break. Why wouldnt he write this is the real question.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:05 PM
no, you have to have 3 seasons before you get paid

that's not even the point; I have no doubt Kaep and Wilson will end up getting MASSIVE contracts.

It doesn't mean it's right they have to play 3 seasons (especially for Wilson) at the one MEGA MONEY NFL position that means everything to their franchises and play for NFL WELFARE WAGE.

They should be able to rework their contracts whenever they want, period.

You have no good counter point to my fortune 500 company analogy. I'm right, you're wrong. It's ok to admit these things sometimes. This is a common sense flaw here. A professional who is amazing at his job should have the right to make whatever he's worth, and at the very least have the option to look around to see what he's worth. Just like we can do with our careers if we're really good at what we do.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:06 PM
this is a story

I told my friends after the Wilson postseason that if I were Russell Wilson I wouldn't play another down for the contract I was playing for (without knowing about this 3 years bullshit) only for me to read this article and be completely appalled by the fact the NLFPA was stupid enough to agree to this nonsense.

It's total bullshit and unfair to young players who deserve to be paid like premiere professionals in their BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:07 PM
no, you have to have 3 seasons before you get paid

that's not even the point; I have no doubt Kaep and Wilson will end up getting MASSIVE contracts.

It doesn't mean it's right they have to play 3 seasons (especially for Wilson) at the one MEGA MONEY NFL position that means everything to their franchises and play for NFL WELFARE WAGE.

They should be able to rework their contracts whenever they want, period.

You have no good counter point to my fortune 500 company analogy. I'm right, you're wrong. It's ok to admit these things sometimes. This is a common sense flaw here. A professional who is amazing at his job should have the right to make whatever he's worth, and at the very least have the option to look around to see what he's worth. Just like we can do with our careers if we're really good at what we do.

Alright, he can go play in the CFL if he wants. Good luck getting that mega deal.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:10 PM
and I always laugh when Joe Message Board Poster says something like "oh waaaah $300K is still a lot of money!"

first off, no shit. Secondly, these guys are the PRODUCT for a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR business that is so profitable the owners won't even open up their books because they don't want the NFLPA to see just how much money they are making...the product deserves to be paid what they are worth...and guys like Russell Wilson are worth a SHIT TON of money.

The best of the best of the best have 10 years to make as much money as they can possibly make to last them a lifetime...we have 40 years to make enough money to live a comfortable retirement.

I absolutely think anyone that agrees with the idea that these guys shouldn't be allowed to renegotiate their contracts whenever they want are flat out ignorant human beings.

If anyone honestly agrees with that then every rookie contract should be fully guaranteed...from pick #1 to Mr. Irrelevant.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:11 PM
Alright, he can go play in the CFL if he wants. Good luck getting that mega deal.

you are being a moron who can't admit the points I have made are 100% correct and now you're just posting meaningless babble because you can't admit you are wrong and didn't look at this objectively

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:14 PM
you are being a moron who can't admit the points I have made are 100% correct and now you're just posting meaningless babble because you can't admit you are wrong and didn't look at this objectively

Bored and trolling ya a bit. Still got another hour to kill before I leave. Shall we continue?

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:15 PM
Jon Baldwin should give his contract back and make NFL minimum for making like 1 play over 2 seasons. Maybe he can give the money to these two?

Mr. Laz
01-26-2013, 01:17 PM
lol..you took the words right out of my mouth...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IFJ_RxpMl7Q/TKC3iieHiyI/AAAAAAAAAEY/05M41G1fq_8/s1600/Behr_meatloaf_10621-2a.jpg

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:18 PM
Jon Baldwin should give his contract back and make NFL minimum for making like 1 play over 2 seasons. Maybe he can give the money to these two?

Baldwin only makes like $7M over 4 years.

Mr. Laz
01-26-2013, 01:19 PM
and I always laugh when Joe Message Board Poster says something like "oh waaaah $300K is still a lot of money!"

first off, no shit. Secondly, these guys are the PRODUCT for a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR business that is so profitable the owners won't even open up their books because they don't want the NFLPA to see just how much money they are making...the product deserves to be paid what they are worth...and guys like Russell Wilson are worth a SHIT TON of money.

The best of the best of the best have 10 years to make as much money as they can possibly make to last them a lifetime...we have 40 years to make enough money to live a comfortable retirement.

I absolutely think anyone that agrees with the idea that these guys shouldn't be allowed to renegotiate their contracts whenever they want are flat out ignorant human beings.

If anyone honestly agrees with that then every rookie contract should be fully guaranteed...from pick #1 to Mr. Irrelevant.
this has to be Hootie ... right?

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:19 PM
Baldwin only makes like $7M over 4 years.

One mill per catch?

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:20 PM
Jon Baldwin should give his contract back and make NFL minimum for making like 1 play over 2 seasons. Maybe he can give the money to these two?

Sounds fair...

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-26-2013, 01:21 PM
this has to be Hootie ... right?

Yeah, he thinks these guys are top 5 QB's already after one year.

Mr. Laz
01-26-2013, 01:22 PM
Yeah, he thinks these guys are top 5 QB's already after one year.
Thanks, i don't even try to keep up with all the name changes.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:26 PM
anyone who watched Wilson or Kaepernick in the postseason and doesn't see their abilities and the fact that at their very best they are better than anyone going right now is ignorant.

I think they are both top 5 QB's for the 2013 season, no doubt.

TribalElder
01-26-2013, 01:27 PM
Discount doublecheck

Chiefshrink
01-26-2013, 01:27 PM
Goddam, people bitch for years that rookies shouldn't be getting huge contracts when they haven't played a down in the NFL and veteran players don't get raises they deserve because so much money is tied up in those rookies...So they fix that in the new CBA and now they're bitching the rookies should be making more...LMAO

:thumb:

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:29 PM
anyone who watched Wilson or Kaepernick in the postseason and doesn't see their abilities and the fact that at their very best they are better than anyone going right now is ignorant.

I think they are both top 5 QB's for the 2013 season, no doubt.

I couldn't disagree more.

At this point hurling insults at stupidity has become repetitive and boring. Punch yourself in the nuts and lets just call it even...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:29 PM
:thumb:

Wrong.

Terrible point.

2nd-7th round picks still make the same exact money they have always made.

We bitched about the top 15 picks being grossly overpaid and causing holdouts. They were absolutely right to fix that and guarantee those contracts as a bargain.

But I don't expect anyone on this site to use any common sense or do any research before they post incorrect babble.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:31 PM
The difference is now, the late round gems (or everyone not picked in the NFL "lottery") can no longer rework their contracts...which is absurd and ridiculous.

I've also given concrete reasons why but for some reason you're all too ignorant to understand for some reason so OH WELL.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:32 PM
Wrong.

Terrible point.

2nd-7th round picks still make the same exact money they have always made.

We bitched about the top 15 picks being grossly overpaid and causing holdouts. They were absolutely right to fix that and guarantee those contracts as a bargain.

But I don't expect anyone on this site to use any common sense or do any research before they post incorrect babble.

Are you arguing that they CAN'T hold out?...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Are you arguing that they CAN'T hold out?...

yes.

Russell Wilson should have the option to be able to hold out for a better contract after the year he had.

He should be able to, as a professional, make as much money as he deserves to make.

Holdouts are annoying to fans but this is HIS job and he has earned the right to make the money he deserves to make, or as much money as his employer will pay him for his services.

Just like you or me if we outperform our expectations at our jobs we expect and deserve a raise.

Brock
01-26-2013, 01:35 PM
yes.

Russell Wilson should have the option to be able to hold out for a better contract after the year he had.

He should be able to, as a professional, make as much money as he deserves to make.

Holdouts are annoying to fans but this is HIS job and he has earned the right to make the money he deserves to make, or as much money as his employer will pay him for his services.

Just like you or me if we outperform our expectations at our jobs we expect and deserve a raise.

He can hold out.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:36 PM
yes.

Russell Wilson should have the option to be able to hold out for a better contract after the year he had.

He can...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:36 PM
the problem with this thread is people are getting confused between Sam Bradford and top 15 picks and Russell Wilson and Alfred Morris as late round picks.

2nd-7th round picks are still making the same amount of money they made during the Sam Bradford $60M guaranteed mega contracts...but guys like Chris Johnson (late 1st rounders) were at least able to hold out for more money after they outperformed their contracts...which is the total right move and should be the right of a player of that caliber...

now, the NFL RIGHTLY fixed and slotted NFL lottery picks guaranteeing their contracts as a bargaining chip (great move)...but somehow the NFLPA allowed them to right in a 3 year clause for rookies which is fucking absurd and if I were Russell Wilson I'd be calling for the heads of all the leaders in the NFLPA

it's a travesty for guys like Alfred Morris

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:37 PM
He can hold out.

?

doesn't that directly contradict the article in the OP?

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:37 PM
the problem with this thread is people are getting confused between Sam Bradford and top 15 picks and Russell Wilson and Alfred Morris as late round picks.

The problem with this thread is you're arguing a point you don't know jack shit about.

Every negotiation tool that was available before is now AFTER you sign your rookie contract...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:39 PM
...?

Colin Kaepernick can't cash in (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/10spot-12week21/super-bowl-xlvii-colin-kaepernick-russell-wilson-cash-in)


Like Kaepernick, Wilson has no way out. He is stuck with the deal until after the 2014 season, despite being added to the Pro Bowl this week and looking like he could go for years to come.

These two deals expose one of the biggest weaknesses in the CBA for the players and one of the biggest strengths for owners. Young NFL players have no choice but to suck it up for three years, even if they play at the level Kaepernick and Wilson have. Meanwhile, NFL owners get to build cheaply through the draft and own players' rights for five to six years, without the threat of arbitration that Major League Baseball has.

So much attention was given to the issue that standout rookies in the new 10-year CBA now are being punished for it. In part because of Russell, Kaepernick and Wilson are underpaid.

There is no reprieve, no chance to be paid until a player has given a team three seasons. By then, some running backs, such as an Alfred Morris, will have plenty of wear on their tires.

Young players such as Kaepernick who help lead their team to the Super Bowl cannot demand new deals the way they seemed to regularly in the past.

New-school is the ultimate form of detention for standout young players. The CBA locks up their contracts for three years and throws away the key, with no chance of parole.

Until the rules are adjusted, the players will continue to be wronged. And after watching Kaepernick and Wilson this season and seeing what they will earn in future seasons, one truth is self-evident: The holes in the CBA are a lot bigger than any they find in opposing defenses.

Brock
01-26-2013, 01:40 PM
?

doesn't that directly contradict the article in the OP?

Are you telling me he has to report to camp? Or else what?

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:40 PM
The problem with this thread is you're arguing a point you don't know jack shit about.

Every negotiation tool that was available before is now AFTER you sign your rookie contract...

why don't you read the important parts that I just quoted...

looks like he can't holdout for more money...unless I am missing something

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:41 PM
Are you telling me he has to report to camp? Or else what?

well JFC

yeah he could retire if he wanted to

ROFL

the point is, according to THIS SCHEFTER ARTICLE...there is nothing Wilson can do to get paid more until 2014.

THESE ARE THE POINTS I AM ARGUING.

I swear some of you are just fucking dumb.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:42 PM
Are you telling me he has to report to camp? Or else what?

He doesn't get paid.

And SF doesn't have a QB...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:42 PM
I don't understand what Brock and Rausch just did there...

I expect it from Rausch, he's consistently wrong and argues terrible points and is always on the wrong side of the fence...

but Brock? He's a condescending asshole but he's usually at least logical. I have no idea what they just did there.

Brock
01-26-2013, 01:42 PM
well JFC

yeah he could retire if he wanted to

ROFL

the point is, according to THIS SCHEFTER ARTICLE...there is nothing Wilson can do to get paid more until 2014.

THESE ARE THE POINTS I AM ARGUING.

I swear some of you are just fucking dumb.

What do the 49ers do if Colin does not repot to camp? Try and think it through, waiter.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
OMG.

READ THIS

IT'S PRETTY FUCKING CLEAR

Like Kaepernick, Wilson has no way out. He is stuck with the deal until after the 2014 season, despite being added to the Pro Bowl this week and looking like he could go for years to come.

These two deals expose one of the biggest weaknesses in the CBA for the players and one of the biggest strengths for owners. Young NFL players have no choice but to suck it up for three years, even if they play at the level Kaepernick and Wilson have. Meanwhile, NFL owners get to build cheaply through the draft and own players' rights for five to six years, without the threat of arbitration that Major League Baseball has.

So much attention was given to the issue that standout rookies in the new 10-year CBA now are being punished for it. In part because of Russell, Kaepernick and Wilson are underpaid.

There is no reprieve, no chance to be paid until a player has given a team three seasons. By then, some running backs, such as an Alfred Morris, will have plenty of wear on their tires.

Young players such as Kaepernick who help lead their team to the Super Bowl cannot demand new deals the way they seemed to regularly in the past.

New-school is the ultimate form of detention for standout young players. The CBA locks up their contracts for three years and throws away the key, with no chance of parole.

Until the rules are adjusted, the players will continue to be wronged. And after watching Kaepernick and Wilson this season and seeing what they will earn in future seasons, one truth is self-evident: The holes in the CBA are a lot bigger than any they find in opposing defenses.

WHAT IN GOD'S NAME ARE YOU GUYS EVEN TRYING TO SAY?

KC Tattoo
01-26-2013, 01:44 PM
Must play sad song
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh288/krispos42/Unsorted/worlds_smallest_violin.jpg

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:44 PM
What do the 49ers do if Colin does not repot to camp? Try and think it through, waiter.

ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE I HAVE NOW QUOTED TWICE, COLIN KAEPERNICK AND RUSSELL WILSON CANNOT GET NEW CONTRACTS NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

So Kaepernick could sit out a year and then get a new contract and Wilson could sit out two years and then get a new contract...

So if that is where you are getting at, congratulations. Moron.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:45 PM
BROCK. I'll even dumb it down for you one more notch.

Just read this one line. It's not hard. Just read it. One word at a time.

There is no reprieve, no chance to be paid until a player has given a team three seasons. By then, some running backs, such as an Alfred Morris, will have plenty of wear on their tires.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 01:45 PM
I don't understand what Brock and Rausch just did there...

I expect it from Rausch, he's consistently wrong and argues terrible points and is always on the wrong side of the fence...

Your opinion, but also wrong.

but Brock? He's a condescending asshole but he's usually at least logical. I have no idea what they just did there.

All draft day contracts are pretty much set in stone. When you come in you make $X.

After that you're in the NFL. The contract is fucking meaningless. The new rules are there to keep rookies from eating up huge cap space and guaranteed $$$...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:46 PM
Must suck to be dumber than a waiter, eh? I don't work in restaurants anymore but I know attacking someone's job when I'm wrong is the mature way to do things! For being a complete idiot in this thread, you at least showed you amazingly mature you are! Congrats.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:47 PM
PLEASE RAUSCH. PLEASE. ONE WORD AT A TIME. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO KEEP POSTING THIS. JUST READ IT SLOWLY.

There is no reprieve, no chance to be paid until a player has given a team three seasons. By then, some running backs, such as an Alfred Morris, will have plenty of wear on their tires.

Brock
01-26-2013, 01:49 PM
Must suck to be dumber than a waiter, eh? I don't work in restaurants anymore but I know attacking someone's job when I'm wrong is the mature way to do things! For being a complete idiot in this thread, you at least showed you amazingly mature you are! Congrats.

Can you answer the question? Also, this fork is dirty, bring me a clean one.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Can you answer the question? Also, this fork is dirty, bring me a clean one.

I've already answered your question now 4 times.

The NFL CBA would prevent the 49ers from reworking Kaepernick's contract EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO.

You're making yourself look like an asshole.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:52 PM
this is where you should try and save face and leave the thread and pretend it never happened Brock. You usually don't subject yourself to looking like this big of a dipshit. I'm surprised.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 01:54 PM
This is a good rule by the NFL and NFLPA. I bet the Jags want the money they wasted on Gabbert back works both ways.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 01:55 PM
I've already answered your question now 4 times.

The NFL CBA would prevent the 49ers from reworking Kaepernick's contract EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO.

You're making yourself look like an asshole.

This

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:56 PM
This is a good rule by the NFL. I bet the Jags want the money they wasted on Gabbert back works both ways.

How so?

They are holding certain players hostage in a profession where careers can end in the matter of one hit.

It's a gross injustice to a person's livelihood. These are professionals and the ones who outperform their contracts deserve to have the right to seek proper compensation.

and besides, Gabbert makes less than Kyle Orton. He makes $3M a year (albeit fully guaranteed)

Hootie
01-26-2013, 01:59 PM
the reason some people are on the wrong side of the fence here is because of all the media JaMarcus Russel, Sam Bradford and the top 10 picks used to make before the new CBA...

slotting the picks and paying them less (but guaranteed) contracts was the absolute right move and it was a total MUST because it was turning the #1 pick into a liability much of the time rather than a commodity

The veteran minimum is something like $850K per year. That's almost 3 times more per year than any 3rd-7th round pick makes...

Taking away these guys ability to renegotiate is wrong, plain and simple. The only way I would possibly agree is if they decided to make every single drafted rookie's contract guaranteed.

This isn't the NFL's fault, either. This is completely on the NFLPA. I can't believe they agreed to this '3 year' bullshit considering most NFL careers don't last 3 years.

Again, I know Wilson and Kaep are 99% of the time going to get their mega contracts. It's the Alfred Morris' that are held completely hostage.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:00 PM
How so?

They are holding certain players hostage in a profession where careers can end in the matter of one hit.

It's a gross injustice to a person's livelihood. These are professionals and the ones who outperform their contracts deserve to have the right to seek proper compensation.

and besides, Gabbert makes less than Kyle Orton. He makes $3M a year (albeit fully guaranteed)

Rookie wage scale is a good thing. How many times did a NFL owner get ****ed before it? A LOT

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:02 PM
the reason some people are on the wrong side of the fence here is because of all the media JaMarcus Russel, Sam Bradford and the top 10 picks used to make before the new CBA...

slotting the picks and paying them less (but guaranteed) contracts was the absolute right move and it was a total MUST because it was turning the #1 pick into a liability much of the time rather than a commodity

The veteran minimum is something like $850K per year. That's almost 3 times more per year than any 3rd-7th round pick makes...

Taking away these guys ability to renegotiate is wrong, plain and simple. The only way I would possibly agree is if they decided to make every single drafted rookie's contract guaranteed.

This isn't the NFL's fault, either. This is completely on the NFLPA. I can't believe they agreed to this '3 year' bullshit considering most NFL careers don't last 3 years.

Again, I know Wilson and Kaep are 99% of the time going to get their mega contracts. It's the Alfred Morris' that are held completely hostage.

So you think it's ok for this ? Chiefs Make Eric Berry Highest Paid Safety In NFL History before he even plays a down?

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:03 PM
PLEASE RAUSCH. PLEASE. ONE WORD AT A TIME. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO KEEP POSTING THIS. JUST READ IT SLOWLY.

I've called the league office to confirm NFL rules.

I've talked to a NFL representative who confirmed the specific terms of a rule and the leverage the commissioner has (had) to levy temporary "amendments" by his discretion.

I posted the phone number of this individual on this site afterwards.

He got so many calls they changed the phone number 4 days later.

Older members will remember this (when Herm was rumored to come here and the "Gruden rule" was assumed to still be the law.)

I'm not just some tard who quotes a talking head and spouts garbage because my Halo level and years as a member should earn me credibility...

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:04 PM
I've already answered your question now 4 times.

The NFL CBA would prevent the 49ers from reworking Kaepernick's contract EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO.

No.

You can talk louder but it doesn't validate your point...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:04 PM
Rookie wage scale is a good thing. How many times did a NFL owner get ****ed before it? A LOT

see

again

you're arguing a point I'm not arguing

the slotting scale for the 1st round is totally necessary and was totally needed...

but it hasn't changed one bit for picks 22 through Mr. Irrelevant

Paying Sam Bradford more than Tom Brady was disgusting and insane. They have this totally right. Give these top 10 picks 4 guaranteed years, that's fair. Totally 100% fair.

The fact that players can no longer receive new contracts or hold out for better deals until 3 years of service is disgusting, given the fact that NFL careers are so fragile and one hit could end it all.

The Seahawks have a $20M a year QB playing for $350,000 and he has to play for NFL welfare wage for two more seasons before he OR THE SEAHAWKS can even think about giving him a new deal.

The fact the NFLPA agreed to this is hilarious and shows their ineptitude.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:05 PM
I've called the league office to confirm NFL rules.

I've talked to a NFL representative who confirmed the specific terms of a rule and the leverage the commissioner has (had) to levy temporary "amendments" by his discretion.

I posted the phone number of this individual on this site afterwards.

He got so many calls they changed the phone number 4 days later.

Older members will remember this (when Herm was rumored to come here and the "Gruden rule" was assumed to still be the law.)

I'm not just some tard who quotes a talking head and spouts garbage because my Halo level and years as a member should earn me credibility...

WTF are you talking about?

THIS IS A BRAND NEW CBA. THIS IS A CLEAR RULE IN THE NEW CBA.

OMG

You can't be this dumb, can you?

HOLY FUCK

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:06 PM
The new CBA was designed to get NFL veterans the money not Rookies.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:07 PM
at least Brock was smart enough to run along once he realized he was wrong

I mean...fine. If you want to argue that players should prove their worth for 3 years before they get a new deal then ok. Fine. I disagree but agree that you're entitled to your opinion.

But to post incorrect nonsense and to cover your ears and scream "la la la" is ridiculous.

THE BRAND NEW CBA DOESN'T ALLOW ANY ROOKIE TO RENEGOTIATE HIS ROOKIE DEAL UNTIL AFTER 3 YEARS OF SERVICE.

THIS IS THE NEW CBA...THIS IS A RULE. THIS ISN'T A DEBATE.

Just because you called the league office 7 years ago and asked them a question about the old CBA doesn't mean anything to this new CBA. I mean...what?

Am I being trolled?

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:08 PM
The new CBA was designed to get NFL veterans the money not Rookies.

I don't necessarily disagree but I think guys like Wilson, Kaepernick and Morris should be able to at least have arbitration hearings and get fair raises after grossly outperforming their NFL "welfare" contracts.

dallaschiefsfan
01-26-2013, 02:08 PM
This is a big "so what" for me. Teams get stuck with all kinds of dead money after a player doesn't play to potential and they have no "out" for the situation. That's the case with both sides. You signed a deal under the current rules and you should honor the contract. Nothing to see here, IMO.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:09 PM
I've called the league office to confirm NFL rules.

I've talked to a NFL representative who confirmed the specific terms of a rule and the leverage the commissioner has (had) to levy temporary "amendments" by his discretion.

I posted the phone number of this individual on this site afterwards.

He got so many calls they changed the phone number 4 days later.

Older members will remember this (when Herm was rumored to come here and the "Gruden rule" was assumed to still be the law.)

I'm not just some tard who quotes a talking head and spouts garbage because my Halo level and years as a member should earn me credibility...

New CBA limits early renegotiated contracts
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on July 25, 2011, 10:26 PM EST
Chris Johnson AP

Chris Johnson is lucky that he got a little pay raise before his third season in 2010. In the future, that type of renegotiation won’t exist.

As pointed out by agent David Canter, incoming players will not be able to renegotiate contracts before the end of the third season on their rookie contracts. Undrafted players can renegotiate after their second year.

It was pretty rare for guys to get new deals that early in their career, but not unprecedented. While the move seemingly protects teams from holdouts from players like Johnson, it could also limit teams from making early risk: reward bets.

For example, the Eagles locked up young guys like Sheldon Brown, Lito Sheppard, and Mike Patterson after only two years. (Patterson signed an eight-year deal in 2006 after playing only two seasons.) They wouldn’t be able to make those deals now.

Still, we can’t argue too heavily with any rule that prevents possible holdout drama before it starts.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:09 PM
I've called the league office to confirm NFL rules.

I've talked to a NFL representative who confirmed the specific terms of a rule and the leverage the commissioner has (had) to levy temporary "amendments" by his discretion.

I posted the phone number of this individual on this site afterwards.

He got so many calls they changed the phone number 4 days later.

Older members will remember this (when Herm was rumored to come here and the "Gruden rule" was assumed to still be the law.)

I'm not just some tard who quotes a talking head and spouts garbage because my Halo level and years as a member should earn me credibility...

P.S. This might be the dumbest post I've read in the history of ChiefsPlanet.

You're telling me I'm wrong because you called the league office back before Herm Edwards was the coach of the Chiefs and confirmed something that has nothing to do with the brand new CBA that was put in before the Cam Newton draft.

...what?

ROFL

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:11 PM
the NFL needs an arbitration system after a rookie's first year put in place...it's only fair.

Russell Wilson wins a starting job...he should get the opportunity for arbitration for his 2nd, 3rd and 4th years on his rookie contract.

I'm not saying he should be making $15M per year.

But he should definitely be able to make up to the Andrew Luck cap...which is $6M per year.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:13 PM
the NFL needs an arbitration system after a rookie's first year put in place...it's only fair.

Russell Wilson wins a starting job...he should get the opportunity for arbitration for his 2nd, 3rd and 4th years on his rookie contract.

I'm not saying he should be making $15M per year.

But he should definitely be able to make up to the Andrew Luck cap...which is $6M per year.

When year 3 comes The Seahawks will make it up to him trust me.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:14 PM
the NFL needs an arbitration system after a rookie's first year put in place...it's only fair.

Russell Wilson wins a starting job...he should get the opportunity for arbitration for his 2nd, 3rd and 4th years on his rookie contract.

I'm not saying he should be making $15M per year.

But he should definitely be able to make up to the Andrew Luck cap...which is $6M per year.

Don't agree this is killing Baseball. Plus really cant do that with a salary cap.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:14 PM
When year 3 comes The Seahawks will make it up to him trust me.

I'm sure they will assuming he doesn't get paralyzed in a car accident.

If you'd read my god damn posts I'm saying it's more unfair to the Alfred Morris' of the NFL than the Russel Wilson's.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:16 PM
the team basically holds Alfred Morris' rights for 5 years so even after 3 years he'd have to sign a team friendly contract to get any sort of money and that's assuming he isn't washed up after 3 years because his style of play only holds up for a maximum of 5 years if you look at the NFL trends of a Cedric Benson kind of back.

It's ridiculous that his career earning will likely be less than $10M (and that's before taxes and agent fees) when he's producing 1600+ yards rushing in his 1st NFL season.

He should be able to get some sort of arbitration. But hey, the NFLPA agreed to this so the players have no one to blame other than their own union.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
P.S. This might be the dumbest post I've read in the history of ChiefsPlanet.

You're telling me I'm wrong because you called the league office back before Herm Edwards was the coach of the Chiefs and confirmed something that has nothing to do with the brand new CBA that was put in before the Cam Newton draft.

...what?

ROFL

No, I'm stating that if I'm going to get irate and yell at people it's either me just fucking with someone for fun or I mean it.

Yes, I understand that a big part of the new CBA was "locked in" contracts. That will be challenged. With this many rookies/2nd year starters I expect it sooner than later.

If I understand it correctly not honoring your rookie deal means the team is not required to pay you any part of that contract. No guaranteed money.

It means you play for your contract or sit out and wait to get traded (which teams can NOW afford to do because their contracts are cheaper and without penalty.)

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:23 PM
the team basically holds Alfred Morris' rights for 5 years so even after 3 years he'd have to sign a team friendly contract to get any sort of money and that's assuming he isn't washed up after 3 years because his style of play only holds up for a maximum of 5 years if you look at the NFL trends of a Cedric Benson kind of back.

It's ridiculous that his career earning will likely be less than $10M (and that's before taxes and agent fees) when he's producing 1600+ yards rushing in his 1st NFL season.

He should be able to get some sort of arbitration. But hey, the NFLPA agreed to this so the players have no one to blame other than their own union.


Would've be nice if the NFLPA got into the new CBA that Teams cant RFA Tag them after Rookie deal.

dallaschiefsfan
01-26-2013, 02:24 PM
the NFL needs an arbitration system after a rookie's first year put in place...it's only fair.

Russell Wilson wins a starting job...he should get the opportunity for arbitration for his 2nd, 3rd and 4th years on his rookie contract.

I'm not saying he should be making $15M per year.

But he should definitely be able to make up to the Andrew Luck cap...which is $6M per year.

It's a contract. Fairness has nothing to do with it. It was a signed contract in good faith by both parties under the current rules. Nobody is suffering, here. No injustice has been done.

TribalElder
01-26-2013, 02:25 PM
Yeah because when players perform as a rookie they should get to demand more money.

If contracts were performances based some of the rookies would need to give the team a better deal or all of the money back.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:25 PM
No, I'm stating that if I'm going to get irate and yell at people it's either me just ****ing with someone for fun or I mean it.

Yes, I understand that a big part of the new CBA was "locked in" contracts. That will be challenged. With this many rookies/2nd year starters I expect it sooner than later.

If I understand it correctly not honoring your rookie deal means the team is not required to pay you any part of that contract. No guaranteed money.

It means you play for your contract or sit out and wait to get traded (which teams can NOW afford to do because their contracts are cheaper and without penalty.)

Wont matter the NFLPA signed off on this deal.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:27 PM
Wont matter the NFLPA signed off on this deal.

They've signed off on every deal since their inception...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:27 PM
It's a contract. Fairness has nothing to do with it. It was a signed contract in good faith by both parties under the current rules. Nobody is suffering, here. No injustice has been done.

if that's the case then teams shouldn't be allowed to cut an underachieving player and not pay him

it's a good faith contract, remember?

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:27 PM
They've signed off on every deal since their inception...

Rookies have to play 3 years before a new deal nothing wrong with that.

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:30 PM
if that's the case then teams shouldn't be allowed to cut an underachieving player and not pay him

it's a good faith contract, remember?

So you rather this be baseball? I'm sure the Yankees would love to cut Arod now rather then pay him 26m.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:30 PM
Rookies have to play 3 years before a new deal nothing wrong with that.

Nope...:evil:

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:33 PM
Nope...:evil:

Every sport is like this now. Rookies need to earn that pay.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:35 PM
So you rather this be baseball? I'm sure the Yankees would love to cut Arod now rather then pay him 26m.

for rookies...yes

if they are going to restrict them from not renegotiating for 3 years then every single drafted rookie should have a 4 year GUARANTEED contract...

which amounts to like $2M or $3M for anyone drafted in the 3rd round or later.

Fair is fair. If you can restrict the gems from making more money then you shouldn't be able to cut the busts and not have to pay them for sucking.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:36 PM
for rookies...yes

if they are going to restrict them from not renegotiating for 3 years then every single drafted rookie should have a 4 year GUARANTEED contract...

It's not...

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:36 PM
Nope...:evil:

well at least you came back and took your lumps for being wrong

Brock took his ball and went home after he tried insulting me for waiting tables once upon a time.

Love someone who attacks another person for having a job. Real adult like.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 02:36 PM
It's not...

that reply doesn't even make sense

It's not...what?

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:37 PM
The Structure of NFL Rookie Contracts

As a result of last year’s NFL lockout, which resulted in a new collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and NFLPA, changes have been made to the structure of rookie NFL contracts. With the first round of the 2012 NFL Draft set to kick-off on Thursday, April 26, RulingSports.com reached out to NFL agent Mark Slough of Ascent Sports to learn more about how NFL rookie contracts are structured. This year, Ascent Sports has 22 clients in the NFL Draft.

The first thing Slough noted about rookie contracts under the new CBA, is that “They’re all very similar.” Under the new CBA, changes were made to the structure of NFL rookie contracts. These changes largely favor the NFL clubs, as one of the big factors during negotiation of the new CBA, was suppressing rookie salaries. Under the new CBA, rookies that are drafted receive four-year contracts. If a rookie is drafted in the first round, clubs can exercise a fifth-year option for the player’s rights. According to Slough, “In all likelihood, unless [the player] flames out, it will be a five-year deal for first rounders.” If a rookie is undrafted, he will receive a three-year contract.

As for the type of salary NFL rookies can expect to earn under their contracts, Slough noted that rookies receive “minimum salaries under the CBA.” This season, the minimum salary is $390,000.00. In 2013, this year’s rookies can expect to earn $480,000.00 in salary. In 2014, they’ll earn $570,000.00 in salary.

As for first round draft picks, the amount of salary they’ll receive in their fifth year of play if their option is picked up by their respective team, depends upon where they were selected in the first round. According to Slough, “If a player is picked 1-10, then the 5th year option is going to be the average of the top-10 players at the respective player’s position. So, if you’re quarterback and go number-two in the Draft, then your fifth year option salary will be the average of the top-ten quarterbacks. The option is exercised after the third season, so it would be based upon the top-ten quarterback salaries at that time. If you’re picked 11-32, then the 5th year club option is the average salary of the top 3rd through 25th player in that position.”

While salaries for rookies are standard in NFL contracts, certain items present in a rookie’s contract can make his earnings higher than other rookies’ earnings. According to Slough, “The general rule, is that the majority of these contracts are going to look pretty identical, except for the amount of a signing bonus a player receives.” The size of a rookie’s signing bonus depends upon where he is drafted and this is one area in which an agent can successfully negotiate higher earnings for his client. “The amount of the signing bonus is negotiable. We operate under an unofficial sliding scale system,” Slough said. Thus, the number-one NFL Draft pick will receive a higher bonus than the second pick, and so on.

One area in which agents no longer can negotiate higher earnings for their clients under the new CBA, is escalators. Under previous CBAs, “agents used to be able to negotiate all kinds of escalators into the contracts,” according to Slough. For instance, if the player played a certain percentage of the time, his agent could negotiate contract terms so that he would be paid more for his playing time. However, under the new CBA, escalators are standardized. According to Slough, players drafted in rounds three through seven receive a “proven performance” escalator, that goes into effect during their fourth season of play. The escalator these players receive, is based upon them playing 35 percent of the time during two of their first three seasons, or an average of 35 percent of the time during their first three years. If a player hits either of these benchmarks, then in their fourth season of play, their salary will escalate to the right of first refusal amount.

The role of an agent in terms of negotiating rookie contracts has greatly changed as a result of the new NFL CBA. “Truthfully, there’s not a lot of negotiation in rookie contracts anymore for agents. Your job really becomes focusing on the time leading up to the draft and getting through the draft process. Then, your job becomes everything that comes post-draft. There’s a lot of other things that agents can do and be an asset to our clients beyond contract negotiation,” noted Slough.

SAUTO
01-26-2013, 02:37 PM
if that's the case then teams shouldn't be allowed to cut an underachieving player and not pay him

it's a good faith contract, remember?
The player has some guaranteed money, what does the team get in case the player sucks? Nothing.

So the players have a safety net, teams do too
Posted via Mobile Device

Showtime
01-26-2013, 02:40 PM
Nope...:evil:

As pointed out by agent David Canter, incoming players will not be able to renegotiate contracts before the end of the third season on their rookie contracts. Undrafted players can renegotiate after their second year.


That's the rule do you really think the CBA is lying to you?

KC Tattoo
01-26-2013, 02:40 PM
I curr >< this much what they make under contract. If they are worth the money they can make up and then some in endorsement deals. That is win win for teams and players and the fans pay for the product they chose to buy, so it's win for the company endorsing the player.

Rausch
01-26-2013, 02:42 PM
well at least you came back and took your lumps for being wrong

I don't agree that a player under a rookie contract has no out.

Brock took his ball and went home after he tried insulting me for waiting tables once upon a time.

You take that up with him.

Love someone who attacks another person for having a job. Real adult like.

Hey, I have a shit job now.

It's like being fat (which I am now) - we get to make fun of our own.

Hey, if you can't admit to being wrong or can't take criticism or can't stand being challenged get the fuck out. It's what we do here. It's what we are...

Chiefnj2
01-26-2013, 02:46 PM
Endorsements.

dallaschiefsfan
01-26-2013, 02:50 PM
if that's the case then teams shouldn't be allowed to cut an underachieving player and not pay him

it's a good faith contract, remember?

That's actually incorrect. Contracts are not guaranteed in the NFL per the agreed upon rules. Only bonuses are guaranteed. It's been that way for a while. Nobody is forcing a player to play or sign contracts under those rules.

dallaschiefsfan
01-26-2013, 02:53 PM
for rookies...yes

if they are going to restrict them from not renegotiating for 3 years then every single drafted rookie should have a 4 year GUARANTEED contract...

which amounts to like $2M or $3M for anyone drafted in the 3rd round or later.

Fair is fair. If you can restrict the gems from making more money then you shouldn't be able to cut the busts and not have to pay them for sucking.

You keep using that word. I do not think you know what it means. Nobody is playing outside of the bounds of agreed upon rules of contracts in the NFL.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 03:21 PM
That's actually incorrect. Contracts are not guaranteed in the NFL per the agreed upon rules. Only bonuses are guaranteed. It's been that way for a while. Nobody is forcing a player to play or sign contracts under those rules.

:facepalm:

I feel like I'm just fucking being trolled in this thread.

Good job everyone.

Hootie
01-26-2013, 03:26 PM
The player has some guaranteed money, what does the team get in case the player sucks? Nothing.

So the players have a safety net, teams do too
Posted via Mobile Device

Wilson a 3rd round pick received $620,000 guaranteed.

Alfred Morris might have gotten half of that, though I doubt it.

A player should be able to renegotiate his deal whenever they want, just like an NFL team can cut a player whenever they want.

I'm not saying pulling a T.O. after 1 year of a contract is good business, but it's their profession and their decision. If it backfires, it backfires...but the player should still have that right as this is their job.

We don't sign our life away at our jobs. My employee can't block me from looking elsewhere and making more money. Why should the NFL block a guy like Russell Wilson who wouldn't even have to holdout because the Seahawks would hand him a blank check right now. (if they could)

Hootie
01-26-2013, 03:29 PM
I don't agree that a player under a rookie contract has no out.

ROFL

Ok. It's only fact. But ok.

ROFL

Tribal Warfare
01-27-2013, 02:22 AM
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Sorter
01-27-2013, 03:03 AM
I thought it was common knowledge and reported by other sites (ESPN, PFT, PFW) that the new rookies can't renegotiate until their 3rd year. What am I missing?

jspchief
01-27-2013, 06:19 AM
Stop trying to use jobs in the real world as an analogy. They just aren't comparable.

The fact of the matter is these guys agreed to this type of contract when they elected to pursue an NFL career. They chose a job with structured contract rules in the first 3 years, knowing full well that there was a risk of outplaying that contract and possibly missing a chance to ever reap the reward. THEIR CHOICE.

You can argue about what's fair to Russell Wilson, or what was fair to KC with Cassel's contract all you want, but the fact remains both parties agreed to the rules in place when they signed.

Besides, ultimately this CBA is much healthier for the league as a whole. I have no problem with the risk Alfred Morris faces.