Chris Weinke (IMG Academy) Talks with Danny Parkins about upcoming QB class.

[mdchiefsfan]

http://www.610sports.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=6212845

Pretty good stuff in here guys. Sorry if Q.

[CoMoChief]

no.....you're not sorry!

[mdchiefsfan]

no.....you're not sorry!

you got me

[the Talking Can]

he said smith was smart and can make every throw, and is as good a thrower as any QB he's trained..."as advanced as RG3 in processing information and making the throws"


why is he obsessed with us drafting a QB? he's not a GM...

[Buehler445]

he said smith was smart and can make every throw, and is as good a thrower as any QB he's trained


why is he obsessed with us drafting a QB? he's not a GM...

Partially because that's all they asked about.

But he said Smith was as good of passer as there is or has been.

[the Talking Can]

Partially because that's all they asked about.

But he said Smith was as good of passer as there is or has been.

it was snark..."you're not a GM" is the hot response right from 'serious posters'...

[Buehler445]

it was snark..."you're not a GM" is the hot response right from 'serious posters'...

Oh hell. LMAO I've been working too much I suppose.

[Deberg_1990]

IM not a GM, but i play one on TV.

[Bewbies]

Not a GM, I love this place! LMAO

[Rasputin]

I think this is going play out very good for Geno Smith & even Tyler Wilson to be working with Chris Weinke. The draft stock is going to go up from the combine.


I can see the first three picks being

1) Geno Smith Kansas City

2) Tyler Wilson Jackoffville Jaguares

3) Matt Barkley ****stick raiders


Weinke said up to 5 QB prospects could go in the first round. Better get ours ****ing first.

[arrowheadnoiser]

I hope the Chiefs draft Geno Smith in the 1st and then Tyler Bray in the 3rd.

[Bewbies]

I hope the Chiefs draft Geno Smith in the 1st and then Tyler Bray in the 3rd.

Unless Bray is a retard in interviews he will be a top 15 pick.

[htismaqe]

Unless Bray is a retard in interviews he will be a top 15 pick.

No he won't.

[Rasputin]

I hope the Chiefs draft Geno Smith in the 1st and then Tyler Bray in the 3rd.

Good first post welcome to Chiefs Planet. Have some rep.

Now don't ever post again to **** that up.

J/K :evil:

[RealSNR]

Unless Bray is a retard in interviews he will be a top 15 pick.
Bray is a retard. Sooo... that's a possibility

[ChiTown]

Unless Bray is a retard in interviews he will be a top 15 pick.

I don't know about that. I don't think he gets taken until the 2nd rd.

[Deberg_1990]

Weinke said up to 5 QB prospects could go in the first round. Better get ours ****ing first.

I have no idea how many QBs will be taken, but with 8 teams in the top 10 potentially looking at QB, if im the Chiefs, no way do I let one of the top 2 or 3 get away.

Chiefs
Jags
Raiders
Eagles
Browns
Cardinals
Bills
Jets


Any of those teams need a QB.

[tooge]

they mentioned Weinke during the senior bowl. Said he was one of the most respected QB gurus right now and he is very high on Geno

[htismaqe]

Rob Rang said if there's a QB in this draft you like, you have to take him at #1.

He said EVERY team is going to be looking to trade into the bottom of the 1st to pick up the leftovers.

He thinks the top 5 or 6 guys will ALL go in the 1st round.

[The Franchise]

Rob Rang said if there's a QB in this draft you like, you have to take him at #1.

He said EVERY team is going to be looking to trade into the bottom of the 1st to pick up the leftovers.

He thinks the top 5 or 6 guys will ALL go in the 1st round.

Fucking hell....Christian Ponder went in the top 15.....and Geno Smith is light years ahead of Ponder.

[DJ's left nut]

Here's my real concern.

He said immediately that "There's a number of guys" that could be worthy discussing at the #1 overall pick.

Sorry, but that's just not true. That Senior bowl was !@#$ing ghastly and the regular season never did sell me on Wilson or Barkley.

"If everyone is special, then no one is special..."

If he thinks there are a bunch of guys in this draft worthy of the #1 pick, then I think he's just a bit of a smoke-blower and can't give him full weight on his discussions of Geno Smith.

[Chiefnj2]

I think this is going play out very good for Geno Smith & even Tyler Wilson to be working with Chris Weinke. The draft stock is going to go up from the combine.


I can see the first three picks being

1) Geno Smith Kansas City

2) Tyler Wilson Jackoffville Jaguares

3) Matt Barkley ****stick raiders


Weinke said up to 5 QB prospects could go in the first round. Better get ours ****ing first.

Of course Weinke is saying that, he makes money training these guys. Why would he say "hey kids spend thousands (let your agent front you thousands) to train with me and I'll get you drafted on days 2 and 3!" Of course he is going to talk these guys up. He's been training Wilson since the season ended, Smith since he signed with an agent after the Pinstripe and Barkley is coming in soon. It's his job to hype these guys up.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Unless Bray is a retard in interviews he will be a top 15 pick.

Maybe he'll offer to show them his tat?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9KwDfIktS8E/TnI6SdC-v7I/AAAAAAAAAHM/u9QJDvF1Sak/s1600/brayTattoo.jpg

[Mr. Laz]

completely bias

He is making money off these guys

The higher they get drafted, the better he looks


Geno Smith is not like RGIII
Tyler Wilson is not Matt Stafford

I like Wilson/Smith but he is blowing smoke


both Wilson and Smith are a good fit for the 1st pick ... imagine that LMAO


dude is trying to get paid

[ChiTown]

Maybe he'll offer to show them his tat?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9KwDfIktS8E/TnI6SdC-v7I/AAAAAAAAAHM/u9QJDvF1Sak/s1600/brayTattoo.jpg

Should have read: G A Y

[Nightfyre]

If Weinke has truly fixed Geno's footwork, look out. He will demonstrate so much more power on his throws.

[DJ's left nut]

If Weinke has truly fixed Geno's footwork, look out. He will demonstrate so much more power on his throws.

Yup, that's a huge deal.

The only concern I have left with Geno is that I don't think he has much of a power arm. For all the hell that Alex Smith is taking, I'm not seeing much on Geno's tape to tell me that he can fire it with much more velocity than Alex.

That said, he does it while getting very little leg drive. If he's able to use his legs to generate power, he could be a truly outstanding prospect.

[The Franchise]

Maybe that's why Geno didn't elect to play in the Senior Bowl. Weinke is working with him on his footwork and Geno didn't want to go out there and revert back to his old ways.

[Nirvana58]

He did mention Wilson arm strength a couple times. I know a couple people like to question it but that was probably the first positive attribute out of his mouth. Well that and toughness. Flat out said he would love to have Wilson on his team. Completely bias opinion but I don't think he even mentioned arm strength with Geno but said it 2 or 3 times with Wilson. (Granted I skipped through parts of the interview so I could of missed something)

[ForeverChiefs58]

Yup, that's a huge deal.

The only concern I have left with Geno is that I don't think he has much of a power arm. For all the hell that Alex Smith is taking, I'm not seeing much on Geno's tape to tell me that he can fire it with much more velocity than Alex.

That said, he does it while getting very little leg drive. If he's able to use his legs to generate power, he could be a truly outstanding prospect.


Really? I think one of his strengths is his deep ball.

[htismaqe]

He did mention Wilson arm strength a couple times. I know a couple people like to question it but that was probably the first positive attribute out of his mouth. Well that and toughness. Flat out said he would love to have Wilson on his team. Completely bias opinion but I don't think he even mentioned arm strength with Geno but said it 2 or 3 times with Wilson. (Granted I skipped through parts of the interview so I could of missed something)

He's mentioned Geno's arm strength several times in other interviews.

[BossChief]

Even before fixing his footwork, Geno would have walked onto the NFL stage with a top 10 arm. If he learns to use his lower body better, he can have as strong a arm as anyone in the league.

[mdchiefsfan]

Here's my real concern.

He said immediately that "There's a number of guys" that could be worthy discussing at the #1 overall pick.

Sorry, but that's just not true. That Senior bowl was !@#$ing ghastly and the regular season never did sell me on Wilson or Barkley.

"If everyone is special, then no one is special..."

If he thinks there are a bunch of guys in this draft worthy of the #1 pick, then I think he's just a bit of a smoke-blower and can't give him full weight on his discussions of Geno Smith.

I need to listen again, but I thought he said there were a number of QBs who would go in the first, as in round.

[Rasputin]

completely bias

He is making money off these guys

The higher they get drafted, the better he looks


Geno Smith is not like RGIII
Tyler Wilson is not Matt Stafford

I like Wilson/Smith but he is blowing smoke


both Wilson and Smith are a good fit for the 1st pick ... imagine that LMAO


dude is trying to get paid

LMAO Heyzeus Tebow

People love to spin things out and discredit these kinds of things. Well he will get to visit with the GMs and Coaches and am sure he will have some pull on what he thinks of these kids work experience he had with them. I think they would value his oppionion just fine and see how they actually work out in the combine and go from there. It was a good listen in the OP to hear all the good things he said about the prospects comming out anyways. He talked about the guys he has been working with and the ones he hasn't just admitted what he has heard about them like Barkley.

I'm pretty stoked about what he had to say about Geno and Wilson so I really don't give a fuck what others disclaim his role in all of this is.

[DJ's left nut]

Really? I think one of his strengths is his deep ball.

He has a solid deep ball because he has great touch, but it's not because he has a strong arm...or at least not because he has elite velocity.

Most of his intermediate passes have a bit of that Rivers 'hump' to them; they don't come in on a string. In the NFL when windows close faster, a bunch of those are going to get batted away.

But on very rare occasions you'll see him really drive with his legs and throw a freakin' laser. He has the ability to do it, he just rarely does it with any regularity.

If Weinke can get his feet working right, he's going to really improve his velocity on the 10-15 yard throws and suddenly he really will become an outstanding prospect.

[mdchiefsfan]

He has a solid deep ball because he has great touch, but it's not because he has a strong arm...or at least not because he has elite velocity.

Most of his intermediate passes have a bit of that Rivers 'hump' to them; they don't come in on a string. In the NFL when windows close faster, a bunch of those are going to get batted away.

But on very rare occasions you'll see him really drive with his legs and throw a freakin' laser. He has the ability to do it, he just rarely does it with any regularity.

If Weinke can get his feet working right, he's going to really improve his velocity on the 10-15 yard throws and suddenly he really will become an outstanding prospect.

Thats how I would define it too. Lacking long ball velocity but makes up for it with long ball accuracy.

[DJ's left nut]

Even before fixing his footwork, Geno would have walked onto the NFL stage with a top 10 arm. If he learns to use his lower body better, he can have as strong a arm as anyone in the league.

Woah now, Tiger. Slow down.

With bad feet, he has an average NFL 'arm'. I feel like anytime I say anything remotely critical of Smith I have to preface it by reminding anyone reading that I love the guy as a prospect, but let's be realistic here.

Yes, his 'arm' is great, but he doesn't get the most out of it because he doesn't use his legs right. So when you talk about his arm, you're not really talking about what it is capable of with proper mechanics, but rather you're talking about the actual velocity generated when he throws a football. When his feet aren't working right, his 'arm' is still strong but he's not getting the most out of it so his velocity wanes. When he's doing that, his usable arm strength is very Sam Bradford-esque; adequate, but not outstanding.

Again, Matt Cassel can throw a football 60 yards - we've seen him do it. NFL arm-strength is otherworldly, even among the guys with 'noodle' arms. It massively understates just how gifted these guys are athletically to say that Geno is going to come in here with bad legs and still have a better arm than 2/3 of the league.

C'mon. Let's be honest about Smith's strengths right now. Velocity isn't among them.

[saphojunkie]

He has a solid deep ball because he has great touch, but it's not because he has a strong arm...or at least not because he has elite velocity.

Most of his intermediate passes have a bit of that Rivers 'hump' to them; they don't come in on a string. In the NFL when windows close faster, a bunch of those are going to get batted away.

But on very rare occasions you'll see him really drive with his legs and throw a freakin' laser. He has the ability to do it, he just rarely does it with any regularity.

If Andy Reid can get his feet working right, he's going to really improve his velocity on the 10-15 yard throws and suddenly he really will become an outstanding starter for the Chiefs.

:thumb:

[Rasputin]

Woah now, Tiger. Slow down.

With bad feet, he has an average NFL 'arm'. I feel like anytime I say anything remotely critical of Smith I have to preface it by reminding anyone reading that I love the guy as a prospect, but let's be realistic here.

Yes, his 'arm' is great, but he doesn't get the most out of it because he doesn't use his legs right. So when you talk about his arm, you're not really talking about what it is capable of with proper mechanics, but rather you're talking about the actual velocity generated when he throws a football. When his feet aren't working right, his 'arm' is still strong but he's not getting the most out of it so his velocity wanes. When he's doing that, his usable arm strength is very Sam Bradford-esque; adequate, but not outstanding.

Again, Matt Cassel can throw a football 60 yards - we've seen him do it. NFL arm-strength is otherworldly, even among the guys with 'noodle' arms. It massively understates just how gifted these guys are athletically to say that Geno is going to come in here with bad legs and still have a better arm than 2/3 of the league.

C'mon. Let's be honest about Smith's strengths right now. Velocity isn't among them.

These are good points.

I am gitty that Chris Weinke is working on all that footwork to help with the velocity & that is why he went to Chris Weinke in the first place to help him be a better pro QB. So some of that can be fixed going to the IMG Academy. Hope it helps him out the most & shows it pay off at the combine.

[the Talking Can]

He has a solid deep ball because he has great touch, but it's not because he has a strong arm...or at least not because he has elite velocity.

Most of his intermediate passes have a bit of that Rivers 'hump' to them; they don't come in on a string. In the NFL when windows close faster, a bunch of those are going to get batted away.

But on very rare occasions you'll see him really drive with his legs and throw a freakin' laser. He has the ability to do it, he just rarely does it with any regularity.

If Weinke can get his feet working right, he's going to really improve his velocity on the 10-15 yard throws and suddenly he really will become an outstanding prospect.

excellent distinctions

[Mr. Laz]

LMAO Heyzeus Tebow

People love to spin things out and discredit these kinds of things. Well he will get to visit with the GMs and Coaches and am sure he will have some pull on what he thinks of these kids work experience he had with them. I think they would value his oppionion just fine and see how they actually work out in the combine and go from there. It was a good listen in the OP to hear all the good things he said about the prospects comming out anyways. He talked about the guys he has been working with and the ones he hasn't just admitted what he has heard about them like Barkley.

I'm pretty stoked about what he had to say about Geno and Wilson so I really don't give a fuck what others disclaim his role in all of this is.
so you are what you've always been ... QB or bust

Geno,Geno,Geno

Weinke said what you wanted to hear so you don't care whether he is currently being paid by Geno Smith or not.

[htismaqe]

so you are what you've always been ... QB or bust

Geno,Geno,Geno

Weinke said what you wanted to hear so you don't care whether he is currently being paid by Geno Smith or not.

Do you ever get tired of not having any original takes and just busting on other people's opinions all the time?

[Rasputin]

so you are what you've always been ... QB or bust

Geno,Geno,Geno

Weinke said what you wanted to hear so you don't care whether he is currently being paid by Geno Smith or not.

I don't curr if he is being paid or not. His reputation is on the line and that am sure also is put on the test each year.


Yes I liked what he had to say about the prospects Geno and Tyler Wilson are the ones he gave great praise to for working with them. I get that they pay him, but they don't pay him to lie about what they got going for them.

[keg in kc]

he said smith was smart and can make every throw, and is as good a thrower as any QB he's trained..."as advanced as RG3 in processing information and making the throws"How dare he! Blashphemy! Nobody who knows anything could ever possibly think that!

[The Franchise]

Do you ever get tired of not having any original takes and just busting on other people's opinions all the time?

No....it's Laz. It's all he does.

[Rasputin]

"I'm pretty stoked about what he had to say about Geno and Wilson so I really don't give a **** what others disclaim his role in all of this is."


Mr.Laz
This is what I said in my post & why should I curr or give a **** anything else?

[CoMoChief]

Woah now, Tiger. Slow down.

With bad feet, he has an average NFL 'arm'. I feel like anytime I say anything remotely critical of Smith I have to preface it by reminding anyone reading that I love the guy as a prospect, but let's be realistic here.

Yes, his 'arm' is great, but he doesn't get the most out of it because he doesn't use his legs right. So when you talk about his arm, you're not really talking about what it is capable of with proper mechanics, but rather you're talking about the actual velocity generated when he throws a football. When his feet aren't working right, his 'arm' is still strong but he's not getting the most out of it so his velocity wanes. When he's doing that, his usable arm strength is very Sam Bradford-esque; adequate, but not outstanding.

Again, Matt Cassel can throw a football 60 yards - we've seen him do it. NFL arm-strength is otherworldly, even among the guys with 'noodle' arms. It massively understates just how gifted these guys are athletically to say that Geno is going to come in here with bad legs and still have a better arm than 2/3 of the league.

C'mon. Let's be honest about Smith's strengths right now. Velocity isn't among them.

This......the zip on his passes are not impressive.

[DJ's left nut]

This......the zip on his passes are not impressive.

Would we all be fine with a less douchy, more mobile Philip Rivers at #1 overall?

Seeing as how the original completely douchy, less mobile Philip Rivers went at #3, I would be fine with it.

If Geno never can get his feet firmed up, Rivers is his ceiling. If that's what he ends up, would everyone presently on the Geno train consider it a good pick?

[Rasputin]

This......the zip on his passes are not impressive.

I bet 100M CC money at the combine that won't be a big issue or that he proves it's not. That he will show plenty of zip on his passes.

[BossChief]

I've seen Geno throw a 40 yard laser without being able to step into the throw due to the pressure.

I don't think there are more than 10 current NFL quarterbacks that can do that.

[BossChief]

Would we all be fine with a less douchy, more mobile Philip Rivers at #1 overall?

Seeing as how the original completely douchy, less mobile Philip Rivers went at #3, I would be fine with it.

If Geno never can get his feet firmed up, Rivers is his ceiling. If that's what he ends up, would everyone presently on the Geno train consider it a good pick?

No question it would be. (Not to nitpick, but it was the 4th pick)

[ForeverChiefs58]

This......the zip on his passes are not impressive.

Really? Are you difficult to impress?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/346/genobaylorbullet2_original.gif?1359053993

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/347/genoclembullet_original.gif?1359054120

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/348/genotexbullet2_original.gif?1359054286

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/350/genolsulookoffpumpfake_original.gif?1359054483

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/353/genotexslant_original.gif?1359054722

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/354/genobaylorbackfoot_original.gif?1359054845

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/356/genotexplacement_original.gif?1359055139

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/357/genoclemavoid_original.gif?1359055255

[keg in kc]

So there's a guy who's able to drop any throw from the line of scrimmage to 50 yards out into a tight window, and the criticism is "the zip on his passes is not impressive".

Mmmkay.

Talk about paralysis of analysis.

[Rasputin]

This......the zip on his passes are not impressive.

I bet 100M CC money at the combine that won't be a big issue or that he proves it's not. That he will show plenty of zip on his passes.

Would you like to take this bet CoMoChief?

[MeatRock]

So there's a guy who's able to drop any throw from the line of scrimmage to 50 yards out into a tight window, and the criticism is "the zip on his passes is not impressive".

Mmmkay.

Talk about paralysis of analysis.

Yea it's getting ridiculous. Some people just don't like Geno and will say anything to convince others to dislike him as well.

Geno has some flaws but zip on his passes isn't one of them.

[Sorter]

Yeah, I'm not really that impressed with Brady's velocity. Ball doesn't have that much zip.

/CoMo

[Mr. Laz]

Do you ever get tired of not having any original takes and just busting on other people's opinions all the time?
wow ... says the guy who busts on other people's opinions every fucking day.

[Deberg_1990]

If Geno never can get his feet firmed up, Rivers is his ceiling. If that's what he ends up, would everyone presently on the Geno train consider it a good pick?

yes. absolutely worth it. If he has the exacty same career as Drew Bledsoe hes worth it and i dont consider Bledsoe a Hall of Famer or anything.

[Titty Meat]

No question it would be. (Not to nitpick, but it was the 4th pick)

No every qb drafted needs to be as good as luck and rg3

[Titty Meat]

Yea it's getting ridiculous. Some people just don't like Geno and will say anything to convince others to dislike him as well.

Geno has some flaws but zip on his passes isn't one of them.

Didn't DJ say he loves Geno as a prospect? You cant criticize anything about Geno without his cult going after you.

[Deberg_1990]

No every qb drafted needs to be as good as luck and rg3

Even Bledsoe, Carson Palmer, Steve McNair and Kerry Collins turned their franchises around. and none of those guys are or were all world talents.

If you have the chance to select one of the top QBs in a draft, you dont pass period.

[keg in kc]

Didn't DJ say he loves Geno as a prospect? You cant criticize anything about Geno without his cult going after you.Nobody has issues with valid concerns like his inconsistent footwork. But "zip on his passes"? Come on now.

[htismaqe]

Didn't DJ say he loves Geno as a prospect? You cant criticize anything about Geno without his cult going after you.

Just simply not true.

Been conversation ALL morning about his lower body and footwork.

[DJ's left nut]

Really? Are you difficult to impress?

Lot's O' Pictures

Those gifs perfectly illustrate my point.

The first two are throws where he does get good leg drive. The third one he doesn't and the ball does have a little more sail to it. The 4th is a good one, the 5th isn't but it's such a short pass that he can keep it downhill the whole way.

I could go on, but ultimately your pictures make my point - Geno absolutely has a strong arm, but he's inconsistent with his leg drive and it often serves to sap him of that authority in his throws.

If he can get that ironed out, he's going to have a top 10 arm (folks, a top 10 arm is a goddamn cannon). But as the pressure gets worse and the games get faster, bad habits are going to become more exacerbated and probably more frequent. If he rolls his hips often at this level, he's going to have passes knocked away or WRs that have space close up on them to either get hit or lose the chance for YAC yards.

[htismaqe]

wow ... says the guy who busts on other people's opinions every fucking day.

I post dozens of my own thoughts each and every day.

You should try it, people might like you more.

[htismaqe]

Would we all be fine with a less douchy, more mobile Philip Rivers at #1 overall?

Seeing as how the original completely douchy, less mobile Philip Rivers went at #3, I would be fine with it.

If Geno never can get his feet firmed up, Rivers is his ceiling. If that's what he ends up, would everyone presently on the Geno train consider it a good pick?

Absolutely emphatically YES.

My ONLY problem with Rivers is that he's a first class douchebag.

If you could get him, minus the tude, you do it in a heartbeat.

[htismaqe]

Those gifs perfectly illustrate my point.

The first two are throws where he does get good leg drive. The third one he doesn't and the ball does have a little more sail to it. The 4th is a good one, the 5th isn't but it's such a short pass that he can keep it downhill the whole way.

I could go on, but ultimately your pictures make my point - Geno absolutely has a strong arm, but he's inconsistent with his leg drive and it often serves to sap him of that authority in his throws.

If he can get that ironed out, he's going to have a top 10 arm (folks, a top 10 arm is a goddamn cannon). But as the pressure gets worse and the games get faster, bad habits are going to become more exacerbated and probably more frequent. If he rolls his hips often at this level, he's going to have passes knocked away or WRs that have space close up on them to either get hit or lose the chance for YAC yards.

The good news is that we have 2 or 3 guys here on this staff that know how to coach that stuff now.

When you look at his flaws, they're coachable. We've got one of the most QB-friendly coaching staffs in football.

Time to do the deed.

[DJ's left nut]

Yea it's getting ridiculous. Some people just don't like Geno and will say anything to convince others to dislike him as well.

Geno has some flaws but zip on his passes isn't one of them.

Some people don't read very much.

Again, SNR and I were the first people on the Geno bandwagon. I guarantee you that I've been watching this kid for longer than you have.

When he doesn't set his feet and drive his legs, his ball gets a hump on intermediate passes. Those will not work at this level and those are passes he's going to need to be able to complete with regularity in Reid's system.

You've picked the wrong guy to try to say "doesn't like Geno". I love the kid, in fact I think his weakness here is actually a good thing in that it's easily coached and will make him even better than his tape shows.

But I'm not going to just make shit up to support my guy and say he has a top 10 NFL arm even when he doesn't use his legs appropriately. The same as I wasn't going to say that Alex Smith is a pile of moldy dog shit just to prop up support for Geno.

Watch these guys for what they are and examine them accordingly. You might learn something.

[DJ's left nut]

Didn't DJ say he loves Geno as a prospect? You cant criticize anything about Geno without his cult going after you.

It's only my !@#$ing signature...

People are idiots.

[Sorter]

Those gifs perfectly illustrate my point.

The first two are throws where he does get good leg drive. The third one he doesn't and the ball does have a little more sail to it. The 4th is a good one, the 5th isn't but it's such a short pass that he can keep it downhill the whole way.

I could go on, but ultimately your pictures make my point - Geno absolutely has a strong arm, but he's inconsistent with his leg drive and it often serves to sap him of that authority in his throws.

If he can get that ironed out, he's going to have a top 10 arm (folks, a top 10 arm is a goddamn cannon). But as the pressure gets worse and the games get faster, bad habits are going to become more exacerbated and probably more frequent. If he rolls his hips often at this level, he's going to have passes knocked away or WRs that have space close up on them to either get hit or lose the chance for YAC yards.

Yup.

Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, Kaep, RG3, Rodgers, Newton, Vick, and Freeman are the QBs I'd put as having elite, pure arm-strength. Guys that can just rip the fucking ball.

Geno can't do that and I'm not sure if he ever really can. Those guys are just fucking freaks. I'd liken Geno's future arm strength with corrected footwork and leg drive to be something like Tom Brady's, which is an above average arm but consistently displays elite velocity and vertical/horizontal arm strength due mainly to technique and a solid weight program.

[Sorter]

It's only my !@#$ing signature...

People are idiots.

People are idiots here?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7zuyeICRS1qiox8vo1_250.gif


LMAO

[philfree]

I've seen Geno throw a 40 yard laser without being able to step into the throw due to the pressure.

I don't think there are more than 10 current NFL quarterbacks that can do that.

I'd like to see a gif of that. The one thing I don't see Geno do when I watch him is drop back and throw the ball on a line 20+ yards past the LOS.

[MeatRock]

Some people don't read very much.

Again, SNR and I were the first people on the Geno bandwagon. I guarantee you that I've been watching this kid for longer than you have.

When he doesn't set his feet and drive his legs, his ball gets a hump on intermediate passes. Those will not work at this level and those are passes he's going to need to be able to complete with regularity in Reid's system.

You've picked the wrong guy to try to say "doesn't like Geno". I love the kid, in fact I think his weakness here is actually a good thing in that it's easily coached and will make him even better than his tape shows.

But I'm not going to just make shit up to support my guy and say he has a top 10 NFL arm even when he doesn't use his legs appropriately. The same as I wasn't going to say that Alex Smith is a pile of moldy dog shit just to prop up support for Geno.

Watch these guys for what they are and examine them accordingly. You might learn something.

Nice write up DJ, but i was responding to CoMo's post about no zip on Geno's passes which i think is bullshit.
Sure, i agree when he doesn't set his feet the ball flutters a bit, but when he does, the zip is there.

[tooge]

No every qb drafted needs to be as good as luck and rg3

This!!!!! If last year didn't have those two, there wouldn't be any discussion about who the Chiefs would be picking this year.

[htismaqe]

I'd like to see a gif of that. The one thing I don't see Geno do when I watch him is drop back and throw the ball on a line 20+ yards past the LOS.

You need to watch more because he has absolutely done that.

The problem is that more often than not, he doesn't get his feet right, so it comes out different.

When he gets his feet right, he can throw it on a rope.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Weinke is pretty much saying the pundits are full of shit. He's also saying what a lot of us have already been saying that everyone got spoiled with Luck and RGIII last year.

I can tell Weinke is higher on Geno than Tyler. And he's working with both of them. Compared Geno to RGIII, and Wilson to Matt Stafford.

[DJ's left nut]

The good news is that we have 2 or 3 guys here on this staff that know how to coach that stuff now.

When you look at his flaws, they're coachable. We've got one of the most QB-friendly coaching staffs in football.

Time to do the deed.

Exactly. We have the staff that can fix him.

I just take some exception to people that argue that there's nothing to fix.

My old trial practice professor once told me that any argument that doesn't strongly make your point, detracts from the point you made strongly.

Once people come in here and spout stuff that just doesn't have much basis in reality, they lead with their chin and make it easy to undermine the arguments that are strong and do have plenty of foundation to them.

If the folks that really like Geno are willing to acknowledge his flaws, then I think it makes our support for him despite those flaws all the stronger, especially if we can incorporate those flaws into his list of strengths.

[RealSNR]

Didn't DJ say he loves Geno as a prospect? You cant criticize anything about Geno without his cult going after you.

Barkley drinks his own pee

[philfree]

You need to watch more because he has absolutely done that.

The problem is that more often than not, he doesn't get his feet right, so it comes out different.

When he gets his feet right, he can throw it on a rope.

I've watched games looking for just that and not really seen it but I haven't watched every game though. I like Geno and I'm not saying he can't make those throws I just don't see them. Really I just want a firm grasp of what Geno Smith really is.

[Coogs]

I bet 100M CC money at the combine that won't be a big issue or that he proves it's not. That he will show plenty of zip on his passes.

I'm going to be surprised if he throws at the combine.

[DJ's left nut]

Barkley drinks his own pee

This is true. Barkley does drink his own pee.

[duncan_idaho]

Some people don't read very much.

Again, SNR and I were the first people on the Geno bandwagon. I guarantee you that I've been watching this kid for longer than you have.

When he doesn't set his feet and drive his legs, his ball gets a hump on intermediate passes. Those will not work at this level and those are passes he's going to need to be able to complete with regularity in Reid's system.

You've picked the wrong guy to try to say "doesn't like Geno". I love the kid, in fact I think his weakness here is actually a good thing in that it's easily coached and will make him even better than his tape shows.

But I'm not going to just make shit up to support my guy and say he has a top 10 NFL arm even when he doesn't use his legs appropriately. The same as I wasn't going to say that Alex Smith is a pile of moldy dog shit just to prop up support for Geno.

Watch these guys for what they are and examine them accordingly. You might learn something.

The one thing that surprised me a bit when looking at the excellent throws chart that has been floating around was the merely average accuracy totals posted on the intermediate throws.

But that tracks really well with his inconsistent mechanics and footwork.

I wonder how much of the inconsistent footwork comes from the porous OL he has played behind, and his attempts to get the ball out as quick as possible.

If he can keep those instincts while cleaning up his footwork, it could end up being a tremendous asset in the pros. Compare that to, say, Sam Bradford, who played in probably THE cleanest pocket of any of the guys drafted high, who has not been great throwing the ball when hurried/pressured, and you've got a winning combo, IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm going to be surprised if he throws at the combine.

I'm going to be pissed if he doesn't.

He can't just sit back and dodge every attempt he has to prove that he's worth that draft pick.

I would honestly start to question his confidence and leadership ability if he doesn't throw at the combine. A great leader needs to have that swagger and confidence that he's the biggest chocolately peen on the block and if Smith isn't willing to prove that, you have another flag popping up, IMO.

I don't like that he didn't play at the SR bowl, but I understand it (too many things can determine whether or not you do well to really be a fair measure). However, if he also refuses to throw at the combine, when it's just him and God controlling shit, then he's pretty much proving himself a bit of a coward at that point.

[DaneMcCloud]

Barkley drinks his own pee

Who doesn't?

[DTLB58]

completely bias

He is making money off these guys

The higher they get drafted, the better he looks


Geno Smith is not like RGIII
Tyler Wilson is not Matt Stafford

I like Wilson/Smith but he is blowing smoke


both Wilson and Smith are a good fit for the 1st pick ... imagine that LMAO


dude is trying to get paid

:clap:

[Coogs]

I'm going to be pissed if he doesn't.

He can't just sit back and dodge every attempt he has to prove that he's worth that draft pick.

I would honestly start to question his confidence and leadership ability if he doesn't throw at the combine. A great leader needs to have that swagger and confidence that he's the biggest chocolately peen on the block and if Smith isn't willing to prove that, you have another flag popping up, IMO.

I don't like that he didn't play at the SR bowl, but I understand it (too many things can determine whether or not you do well to really be a fair measure). However, if he also refuses to throw at the combine, when it's just him and God controlling shit, then he's pretty much proving himself a bit of a coward at that point.

There have been a lot of QB's not throw at Indy and wait until their schools Pro Day.

And while I agreee with you, I am not going to be shocked if he waits, nor will I hold it against him. But I will be disappointed.

[Deberg_1990]

I'm going to be pissed if he doesn't.

He can't just sit back and dodge every attempt he has to prove that he's worth that draft pick.

I would honestly start to question his confidence and leadership ability if he doesn't throw at the combine. A great leader needs to have that swagger and confidence that he's the biggest chocolately peen on the block and if Smith isn't willing to prove that, you have another flag popping up, IMO.

I don't like that he didn't play at the SR bowl, but I understand it (too many things can determine whether or not you do well to really be a fair measure). However, if he also refuses to throw at the combine, when it's just him and God controlling shit, then he's pretty much proving himself a bit of a coward at that point.

WHy? alot of top picks have private Pro Days now in March.

[DJ's left nut]

WHy? alot of top picks have private Pro Days now in March.

Uh...whuh?

I'm pretty sure I answered the 'why'. As to my reasoning for it, 'a lot of top picks' aren't quarterbacks and those that are aren't vying for the #1 overall pick in a draft where there is so much debate over the consensus top QB available.

It's not terribly instructive to look to what other prospects do, IMO. What Geno should do is show the confidence in himself and his ability and go throw at the damn combine, when he'll be able to go stand shoulder to shoulder with the people he's claiming he's better than and prove it.

[htismaqe]

I've watched games looking for just that and not really seen it but I haven't watched every game though. I like Geno and I'm not saying he can't make those throws I just don't see them. Really I just want a firm grasp of what Geno Smith really is.

What he really is?

Hard to say 100% for certain.

He's absolutely a top-flight prospect with very high ceiling. He's got almost everything you look for in a franchise QB.

[CaliforniaChief]

If I was his agent and I was confident that he is the best guy out there, I'd tell him to go swing his big thing in front of everyone. That way, you position your guy to just put the cherry on top of the whole deal at his pro day, as opposed to having to prove everything in one day.

But I guess I won't be shocked if he does not throw at the Combine, just disappointed.

[Strongside]

Who doesn't?

It's sterile and I like the taste!

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/I+drink+my+own+urine+because+it+s+sterile+and+I+_4cf178833face5b41901610ce5813ff8.jpg

[fairladyZ]

Uh...whuh?

I'm pretty sure I answered the 'why'. As to my reasoning for it, 'a lot of top picks' aren't quarterbacks and those that are aren't vying for the #1 overall pick in a draft where there is so much debate over the consensus top QB available.

It's not terribly instructive to look to what other prospects do, IMO. What Geno should do is show the confidence in himself and his ability and go throw at the damn combine, when he'll be able to go stand shoulder to shoulder with the people he's claiming he's better than and prove it.

I like your posts and very informative on things you've seen with geno and realist about his flaws (as opposed to others). I've seen much of the same that you've seen with his arm lacking velocity because of his footwork.

I'm curious your opinion on his mental aspect though? I know people say he's heavy into watching tape and making his game better, and that he's a true leader. I haven't watched much of geno except for K-State game, Pinstripe bowl. I want to know what your take is on his leadership skills and his mental makeup for the game? In the couple games i've watched against good defenses and being harassed he seemed to unravel on the field and on the sidelines. Also got reports of him being one of the most selfish players on the field. You think he'll impress? you think all these red flags popping up are smoke or you think there is warrant there?

[htismaqe]

Uh...whuh?

I'm pretty sure I answered the 'why'. As to my reasoning for it, 'a lot of top picks' aren't quarterbacks and those that are aren't vying for the #1 overall pick in a draft where there is so much debate over the consensus top QB available.

It's not terribly instructive to look to what other prospects do, IMO. What Geno should do is show the confidence in himself and his ability and go throw at the damn combine, when he'll be able to go stand shoulder to shoulder with the people he's claiming he's better than and prove it.

You kind of beat me to the punch.

What I was going to say was this:

Yes, it's true. Most of the top QB prospects don't throw at the combine.

However, to me this year is VERY similar to the year Cam Newton went #1 overall.

People everywhere were talking and mocking Marcell Dareus and Bowers and Tyron Smith, etc.

That year Newton threw at the combine and people were all wondering why, you know, because the top guys never throw.

Worked out well for Newton, and even though his performance was so-so, he quickly solidified himself as the #1 overall pick.

[DJ's left nut]

If I was his agent and I was confident that he is the best guy out there, I'd tell him to go swing his big thing in front of everyone. That way, you position your guy to just put the cherry on top of the whole deal at his pro day, as opposed to having to prove everything in one day.

But I guess I won't be shocked if he does not throw at the Combine, just disappointed.

Exactly.

After the Senior Bowl, I don't think he's really competing with Wilson, Glennon or any of the lesser prospects.

He's now competing with Joeckel, Jones, Werner, Moore, etc...

It's like having a puppy that won't do a trick in front of people. You know he can do it. You've seen it done and by God you know this is awesome. NOW WHY THE FUCK WON'T YOU JUST ROLL-OVER!!!! GODDAMMIT DOG, ROLL OVER!!!!

Go prove it, Geno. Because if you keep dodging challenges and as a consequence, can't prove your supremacy to the satisfaction of Reid and Dorsey and I have to see you slinging yogurt in Black and Silver, I will not blame Reid and Dorsey - I'm gonna blame you.

[The Franchise]

Geno better fucking throw at the combine.

[DJ's left nut]

I like your posts and very informative on things you've seen with geno and realist about his flaws (as opposed to others). I've seen much of the same that you've seen with his arm lacking velocity because of his footwork.

I'm curious your opinion on his mental aspect though? I know people say he's heavy into watching tape and making his game better, and that he's a true leader. I haven't watched much of geno except for K-State game, Pinstripe bowl. I want to know what your take is on his leadership skills and his mental makeup for the game? In the couple games i've watched against good defenses and being harassed he seemed to unravel on the field and on the sidelines. Also got reports of him being one of the most selfish players on the field. You think he'll impress? you think all these red flags popping up are smoke or you think there is warrant there?

I try to steer clear of that stuff. I don't hear this kid in the huddle. I don't see him watch film.

I see that his teammates seem to enjoy playing with him. I know guys love to play for someone that will stand in the face of a rush, plant his foot and fire - something Geno's always willing to do. I saw him keep bringing his offense on the field and attack every time his defense failed and I heard him fall on grenades for them. I also saw him have a bit of a petulant bitch streak in the Pinstripe Bowl that I wasn't a fan of.

So in the end, if I try to say I know what he is as a leader, I'm kinda talking out my ass. But I do like to get as much information as I can get and if he doesn't throw at the combine, it suggests to me someone that's not quite as confident in himself as I'd like him to be.

[fairladyZ]

sounds good. The kid definitely has all the talent, just a couple tweaks in his footwork. Only thing i've ever question'd about him was the mental aspect, but like you said it's hard to know any of whats fact and fiction. Thanks for your take on it though, appreciate it.

I agree he needs to throw at the combine though, not only needs to show his skillset but show his progress towards becoming a better QB for the league. If not then yes red flag for sure.

[philfree]

What he really is?

Hard to say 100% for certain.

He's absolutely a top-flight prospect with very high ceiling. He's got almost everything you look for in a franchise QB.

I wasn't arguing that at all just trying to understand his game. He doesn't have a rocket arm or and elite arm. He has a good arm with a quick release and great touch on his deep ball though and I'm all for picking him with the first pick in the draft.

[Titty Meat]

It's only my !@#$ing signature...

People are idiots.

Lol you specifically started out by saying you liked geno

[htismaqe]

I wasn't arguing that at all just trying to understand his game. He doesn't have a rocket arm or and elite arm. He has a good arm with a quick release and great touch on his deep ball though and I'm all for picking him with the first pick in the draft.

He does have a rocket arm. He has poor footwork and very rarely sets his base before throwing, which leads to passes that don't look zippy.

When his feet are right, he absolutely does have an elite arm.

[htismaqe]

I try to steer clear of that stuff. I don't hear this kid in the huddle. I don't see him watch film.

I see that his teammates seem to enjoy playing with him. I know guys love to play for someone that will stand in the face of a rush, plant his foot and fire - something Geno's always willing to do. I saw him keep bringing his offense on the field and attack every time his defense failed and I heard him fall on grenades for them. I also saw him have a bit of a petulant bitch streak in the Pinstripe Bowl that I wasn't a fan of.

So in the end, if I try to say I know what he is as a leader, I'm kinda talking out my ass. But I do like to get as much information as I can get and if he doesn't throw at the combine, it suggests to me someone that's not quite as confident in himself as I'd like him to be.

I saw that outburst in the Pinstripe Bowl too.

How would you feel if you had geared up for a team that you had never beaten and your coach decided to go into a shell and play to lose?

He had every right to be mad. He should have handled it better.

That outburst to me is something ALL kids do when they get frustrated. It will go away as he ages, probably without ANY coaching at all. It's just part of growing up.

[WildTurkey]

You need to watch more because he has absolutely done that.

The problem is that more often than not, he doesn't get his feet right, so it comes out different.

When he gets his feet right, he can throw it on a rope.

This. He's got a plus arm as is but when he fixes that slight footwork issue I could see him being in the conversation having a top ten arm, if not top ten, certainly top half.

[DJ's left nut]

I saw that outburst in the Pinstripe Bowl too.

How would you feel if you had geared up for a team that you had never beaten and your coach decided to go into a shell and play to lose?

He had every right to be mad. He should have handled it better.

That outburst to me is something ALL kids do when they get frustrated. It will go away as he ages, probably without ANY coaching at all. It's just part of growing up.

Yup. A brick is not a wall.

The outburst was just a brick. I'll give it it's due weight and continue looking at the rest of the package. I won't ignore it, nor will I claim it is dispositive of his worth as a leader.

There are a shitload more bricks forming his 'good' wall than his bad one...

[O.city]

One thing I've noticed is that he seems to be a little over taken with his touch, which is very good. He has great touch and anticipates throwing to different levels well, but he struggles at times, when he needs to rip it, instead throwing a touchy pass.


Could be footwork could be a mental thing, dunno yet. Does seem when his footwork is right, he has a plus arm. Its not Stafford, but really, who is? Dude could throw a tennis ball thru a brick wall.

[Sorter]

One thing I've noticed is that he seems to be a little over taken with his touch, which is very good. He has great touch and anticipates throwing to different levels well, but he struggles at times, when he needs to rip it, instead throwing a touchy pass.


Could be footwork could be a mental thing, dunno yet. Does seem when his footwork is right, he has a plus arm. Its not Stafford, but really, who is? Dude could throw a tennis ball thru a brick wall.

I'd pay money to see a dodge ball game with Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, and Rodgers.

[mdchiefsfan]

I'd pay money to see a dodge ball game with Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, and Rodgers.

ugh God forbid

[Sorter]

ugh God forbid

Against college kids.

[duncan_idaho]

Regarding Geno and throwing at the combine...

If he has fixed his base as much as Chris Weinke seems to think he has, he'll have GOOD motivation to throw at the combine. With better mechanics, his natural arm strength is going to show (And he'll go from being "adequate" to being "very good," which is a big difference), and that's going to help him jump his stock.

[duncan_idaho]

I'd pay money to see a dodge ball game with Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, and Rodgers.

Can the person dodging be Scott Pioli? Please?

[Sorter]

Can the person dodging be Scott *****? Please?

God, I'd love to have a picture of him getting beamed by Rodgers with a dodgeball hanging in my living room.

Glorious.

[Thig Lyfe]

Should have read: G A Y

HAHAHAHAHAHA NAILED IT

[DJ's left nut]

I'd pay money to see a dodge ball game with Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, and Rodgers.

You put those guys in a room together, you better remember one thing...

http://www.amosdelretro.com.ar/Productos/Rambo/Boinas/Replica_Trautman3_04.JPG

....a good supply of body bags.

[Thig Lyfe]

I'd pay money to see a dodge ball game with Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, and Rodgers.

that's what they should replace the Pro Bowl with

[DJ's left nut]

God, I'd love to have a picture of him getting beamed by Rodgers with a dodgeball hanging in my living room.

Glorious.

I'd honestly replace Rodgers in that group with Kaepernick.

Rogers throws hard; Kaepernick has a damn rocket. If he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, he's at least close.

Here's a compromise, instead of taking Rodgers off the team, how 'bout we add Kaepernick and RGIII to the game and put them on opposite teams.

Stafford
Flacco
RGIII

Vs.

Cutler
Rodgers
Kaepernick

Best of 11 series. I'd pay a hell of a lot more to watch that than I would to watch the pro bowl.

EDIT: Damn You Thig Lyfe!!!

[Sorter]

that's what they should replace the Pro Bowl with

LMAO

[Sorter]

I'd honestly replace Rodgers in that group with Kaepernick.

Rogers throws hard; Kaepernick has a damn rocket. If he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, he's at least close.

Here's a compromise, instead of taking Rodgers off the team, how 'bout we add Kaepernick and RGIII to the game and put them on opposite teams.

Stafford
Flacco
RGIII

Vs.

Cutler
Rodgers
Kaepernick

Best of 11 series. I'd pay a hell of a lot more to watch that than I would to watch the pro bowl.

All 6 vs. 20 college students.

I totally forgot about Kaep. If he plays, somebody is going to die. ROFL

[DJ's left nut]

All 6 vs. 20 college students.

I totally forgot about Kaep. If he plays, somebody is going to die. ROFL

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kAE9DupriyI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It would kinda be like that.

[the Talking Can]

i seem to remember a story that david klingler threw the ball so hard he split a WRs hand open in practice...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Really? Are you difficult to impress?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/346/genobaylorbullet2_original.gif?1359053993

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/347/genoclembullet_original.gif?1359054120

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/348/genotexbullet2_original.gif?1359054286

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/350/genolsulookoffpumpfake_original.gif?1359054483

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/353/genotexslant_original.gif?1359054722

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/354/genobaylorbackfoot_original.gif?1359054845

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/356/genotexplacement_original.gif?1359055139

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/695/357/genoclemavoid_original.gif?1359055255

No, he's just a buffoon.

[Thig Lyfe]

i seem to remember a story that david klingler threw the ball so hard he split a WRs hand open in practice...

one time matt cassel threw the ball so hard it almost got close enough to a receiver for him to catch it

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Yeah, Weinke is going to put his reputation on the line by pimping guys he truly thinks are subpar. You guys are just ridiculous sometimes.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

one time matt cassel threw the ball so hard it almost got close enough to a receiver for him to catch it


Tyler Thigpen: Inaccurate 60 percent of the time, every time.

[DJ's left nut]

one time matt cassel threw the ball so hard it almost got close enough to a receiver for him to catch it

I once saw him throw a ball so hard, he hit the !@#$ing crossbar. It was incredible.

[HotCarl]

Why should I listen to Washout Weinke again?

[-King-]

Do QBs at the combine get to choose which WRs they throw it to? If so, Geno could just choose Austin and Bailey right?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Why should I listen to Washout Weinke again?

Durr Harbaugh you no probowler I no listen to you. Jeez, you've slid into a vacated spot like a glove.

[HotCarl]

Durr Harbaugh you no probowler I no listen to you. Jeez, you've slid into a vacated spot like a glove.

woman, I told you to wait in the truck.

[htismaqe]

woman, I told you to wait in the truck.

OK, this one's pretty funny.

[bevischief]

:popcorn:ROFL`

[Pasta Little Brioni]

OK, this one's pretty funny.

He's a feisty little bastard. Wonder how long it'll take till he's outed as a douche mult and banned ROFL

[SAUTO]

Would we all be fine with a less douchy, more mobile Philip Rivers at #1 overall?

Seeing as how the original completely douchy, less mobile Philip Rivers went at #3, I would be fine with it.

If Geno never can get his feet firmed up, Rivers is his ceiling. If that's what he ends up, would everyone presently on the Geno train consider it a good pick?
I'm in
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Top guys don't throw at the combine. Sanchez and Cam were the only ones I can remember doing so.

1) they are throwing to guys hey have no chemistry with because they just met a day or two ago. Ig Geno expects the guy to have wheels and puts it out there and overthrows him, it is a mark AGINST him...if the receiver doesn't run a clean route and Geno s throwing to a spot he should be and isn't, that marks against him. Geno can go out there and throw 75 PERFECT passes and half of them can hit the ground because of the receiver and Geno looks bad because of it.

2) most top prospects know that if they make gms and scouts wait till their proday, more will come to watch and that gives the teammates extra exposure. Not only that, but he is then throwing to guys he knows and has chemistry with and knows how they run their routes. That let's him be confident in his throws and really let it rip.

There are other reasons top guys don't throw at the combine, but those are the major ones.

Saying he is a pussy if he opts not to throw at the combine isn't accurate.

Jmo

[htismaqe]

If Geno expects the guy to have wheels and puts it out there and overthrows him, it is a mark AGINST him...

Actually, no it isn't. They throw to spots on the field. The scouts watching know where the ball is supposed to be. Hell, even Charles and Mayock know where the ball is supposed to be. Furthermore, there are times when the WR CATCHES it that it counts against the QB if the ball went somewhere it wasn't. The QB doesn't get credit for the WR being able to adjust.

if the receiver doesn't run a clean route and Geno s throwing to a spot he should be and isn't, that marks against him. Geno can go out there and throw 75 PERFECT passes and half of them can hit the ground because of the receiver and Geno looks bad because of it.

Again, this just isn't true.

[O.city]

Yeah, you're off on that one Boss. The guy didn't go to the SR bowl, and it might work out for him. If he doesn't throw at the combine, he needs to really be questioned.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, you're off on that one Boss. The guy didn't go to the SR bowl, and it might work out for him. If he doesn't throw at the combine, he needs to really be questioned.

I don't necessarily agree with this, either.

[O.city]

If Geno thinks he can not do anything after the end of the regular season he had and still go 1, he's either way off, or we are being told alot of wrong things.

[htismaqe]

If Geno thinks he can not do anything after the end of the regular season he had and still go 1, he's either way off, or we are being told alot of wrong things.

He will have a pro day. That's certainly not doing "nothing".

And I'd say at this point that it's MUCH more likely we're being told a lot of wrong things.

These guys and their agents don't generally just fuck around when there's millions on the line...

[keg in kc]

Isn't this is a thread about the how he's doing at the IMG Academy? So he's clearly doing something.

[O.city]

He will have a pro day. That's certainly not doing "nothing".

And I'd say at this point that it's MUCH more likely we're being told a lot of wrong things.

These guys and their agents don't generally just **** around when there's millions on the line...

I guess if thats what you want to believe, thats fine. But why is that more likely?


If he just decides to have a pro day, thats as close to doing nothing as he can get. IMO, shows he's a little afraid of pressure.

[BossChief]

I think Geno shows confidence in himself by NOT opting to throw at the combine.

He puts all the pressure on himself at his proday to go out and knock it out of he park.

[O.city]

I think Geno shows confidence in himself by NOT opting to throw at the combine.

????:spock:

[Thig Lyfe]

Tyler Thigpen: Inaccurate 60 percent of the time, every time.

yeah but he's accurate 40 percent of the time which is almost more than 60

[DJ's left nut]

Top guys don't throw at the combine. Sanchez and Cam were the only ones I can remember doing so.

1) they are throwing to guys hey have no chemistry with because they just met a day or two ago. Ig Geno expects the guy to have wheels and puts it out there and overthrows him, it is a mark AGINST him...if the receiver doesn't run a clean route and Geno s throwing to a spot he should be and isn't, that marks against him. Geno can go out there and throw 75 PERFECT passes and half of them can hit the ground because of the receiver and Geno looks bad because of it.

2) most top prospects know that if they make gms and scouts wait till their proday, more will come to watch and that gives the teammates extra exposure. Not only that, but he is then throwing to guys he knows and has chemistry with and knows how they run their routes. That let's him be confident in his throws and really let it rip.

There are other reasons top guys don't throw at the combine, but those are the major ones.

Saying he is a pussy if he opts not to throw at the combine isn't accurate.

Jmo

Are scouting departments now run by 12 yr old girls?

They're going to give Geno a hell of a lot better analysis than "Caught or missed". Are you telling me that Geno's guys wouldn't have given a script to the scouts or that Andy Reid won't be able to tell the difference between a bad throw and simple bad chemistry?

Gimme a break.

Again, I don't really care about history - I care about what this prospect is doing in this draft. If he doesn't throw, it's because he's worried he'll hurt his draft stock - period.

Given how much of a wildcard this draft class is, that bothers me and it doesn't matter to me how many QBs have chosen not to throw before him.

[htismaqe]

I guess if thats what you want to believe, thats fine. But why is that more likely?


If he just decides to have a pro day, thats as close to doing nothing as he can get. IMO, shows he's a little afraid of pressure.

Or it shows that he understands his situation and is smart enough not to fuck it up.

Quite frankly, we could do this all day. You could take any individual piece of info and spin it for or against.

We simply don't know what's going on.

But when it comes right down to it, these guys' agents aren't stupid. They make the bank for a reason. Gotta trust that he's doing it right.

[BossChief]

Are scouting departments now run by 12 yr old girls?

They're going to give Geno a hell of a lot better analysis than "Caught or missed". Are you telling me that Geno's guys wouldn't have given a script to the scouts or that Andy Reid won't be able to tell the difference between a bad throw and simple bad chemistry?

Gimme a break.

Again, I don't really care about history - I care about what this prospect is doing in this draft. If he doesn't throw, it's because he's worried he'll hurt his draft stock - period.

Given how much of a wildcard this draft class is, that bothers me and it doesn't matter to me how many QBs have chosen not to throw before him.

If its that easy, then why don't the top guys ever do it?

[DJ's left nut]

I think Geno shows confidence in himself by NOT opting to throw at the combine.

He puts all the pressure on himself at his proday to go out and knock it out of he park.

Throwing only once in the most highly controlled environment possible and on terms that you set is showing confidence in himself?

Confidence is knowing that he can do it and knowing damn sure that he can repeat it.

You've now gone 'cult of Geno' twice in this thread alone. No, he doesn't have a top 10 NFL arm when his feel go wonky, that's just insanity. And no, refusing to throw at the combine is not because he's super-confident.

This is the kind of crap that makes it more difficult to defend sensible arguments.

[O.city]

Or it shows that he understands his situation and is smart enough not to **** it up.

Quite frankly, we could do this all day. You could take any individual piece of info and spin it for or against.

We simply don't know what's going on.

But when it comes right down to it, these guys' agents aren't stupid. They make the bank for a reason. Gotta trust that he's doing it right.

I think the SR bowl thing was not neccesarily a bad decision. As a fan, I would rather him went, but by not going I think in some quasi way, he gained ground on the other QB's or was put farther ahead of them.

In a nothing negative= a positive.

[DJ's left nut]

If its that easy, then why don't the top guys ever do it?

I sometimes feel like you don't read much.

I've spoken to my reasons several times and so far the best response you or anyone else seems inclined to give is "well other guys don't do it" as though that's some sort of substantive retort.

I. do. not. give. a. shit. if. past. quarterbacks. haven't. thrown.

I've now said it 4 times, is it clear enough yet? Past quarterbacks weren't coming on the heels of the Luck/RGIII draft and having to prove their mettle in a fairly bunched QB class (that is regarded as a QB poor draft as it is).

Geno is facing a set of circumstances that are relatively unique this year and he's going to do nothing more than a single pro day to not only separate himself from his QB peers, but guys like Joeckel, Moore, etc...; that's a massive error in judgment.

[fairladyZ]

everyone complains they want a qb that has the "IT" factor.. I agree i want a qb that has the IT factor and is not afraid to throw the ball no matter who he's throwing too. The guy that has the IT factor is going to go out there and throw the fucking ball to prove he's the man. Don't care about other top QB's not throwing it. Those were different years and we weren't in position to take those guys, or we just plain passed on taking them. If geno is the guy that everyone says he is and has the IT factor i want him to prove it.

[patteeu]

completely bias

He is making money off these guys

The higher they get drafted, the better he looks


Geno Smith is not like RGIII
Tyler Wilson is not Matt Stafford

I like Wilson/Smith but he is blowing smoke


both Wilson and Smith are a good fit for the 1st pick ... imagine that LMAO


dude is trying to get paid

Definitely. About the only thing worth listening to in this interview were the mild criticisms. And we can assume that he was pulling punches there too.

[keg in kc]

Blaming Geno for what he is or isn't doing is a bit off-base I think. He's not making any decisions in a bubble, and I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with his level of confidence. He's paying people to advise him on what to do, so when he doesn't go to the Senior Bowl, or does/doesn't throw at the combine, it's because somebody who does this kind of thing for a living is telling him it's the right thing to do.

[Nightfyre]

everyone complains they want a qb that has the "IT" factor.. I agree i want a qb that has the IT factor and is not afraid to throw the ball no matter who he's throwing too. The guy that has the IT factor is going to go out there and throw the ****ing ball to prove he's the man. Don't care about other top QB's not throwing it. Those were different years and we weren't in position to take those guys, or we just plain passed on taking them. If geno is the guy that everyone says he is and has the IT factor i want him to prove it.

What sort of child-like thinking is this? Awful analysis. Whether he throws at the combine has nothing to do with his "IT" factor. Geno has three years of starting game tape you can go watch. He doesn't need to throw in shorts at the combine to prove anything.

[Chris Meck]

Are scouting departments now run by 12 yr old girls?



Given how much of a wildcard this draft class is, that bothers me and it doesn't matter to me how many QBs have chosen not to throw before him.

Yeah, but is it REALLY? I don't think so. I just think that LAST year was a freak occurrence so it makes THIS year seem like a 'weak' QB class. I think Geno would be the 3rd QB taken last year without a doubt, and I'd bet Wilson would go before Tannehill too, maybe-or at least damned close.

[fairladyZ]

What sort of child-like thinking is this? Awful analysis. Whether he throws at the combine has nothing to do with his "IT" factor. Geno has three years of starting game tape you can go watch. He doesn't need to throw in shorts at the combine to prove anything.

I don't think it's child like at all. I think it's fair that me and others i'm sure want our future QB to walk out wherever it is and take control and sling the ball. I think the whole "he can't help himself only hurt himself" is BS. I want any potential pick to go out there and fucking prove it with the most damn confidence i've ever seen. I know thats what i would do. I don't care if your a QB, LT, LB, CB you go out there and you fucking prove it with a chip on your shoulder. You don't sit back and play a prissy girl cause you might hurt your draft stock. I want to see the improved footwork, his release, and how quick he can adjust and throw to NFL receivers running NFL routes. EVERY other top prospect at there position will be there doing their drills unless injured. The QB shouldn't be an excuse

[Nightfyre]

I don't think it's child like at all. I think it's fair that me and others i'm sure want our future QB to walk out wherever it is and take control and sling the ball. I think the whole "he can't help himself only hurt himself" is BS. I want any potential pick to go out there and ****ing prove it with the most damn confidence i've ever seen. I know thats what i would do. I don't care if your a QB, LT, LB, CB you go out there and you ****ing prove it with a chip on your shoulder. You don't sit back and play a prissy girl cause you might hurt your draft stock. I want to see the improved footwork, his release, and how quick he can adjust and throw to NFL receivers running NFL routes. EVERY other top prospect at there position will be there doing their drills unless injured. The QB shouldn't be an excuse

Lots of players will opt out of lots of events. Andrew Luck, RGIII and Ryan Tannehill didn't didn't throw at the combine, just last year for example. However, I think Geno will throw at the combine. Two of IMG academy clients did last year - Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins.

[fairladyZ]

Lots of players will opt out of lots of events. Andrew Luck, RGIII and Ryan Tannehill didn't didn't throw at the combine, just last year for example. However, I think Geno will throw at the combine. Two of IMG academy clients did last year - Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins.

Good i hope he does throw. I'm not on the geno wagon like i've said before but if he is even in play for the pick then i want to see everything he has. And if he is the pick i'm behind him 100%. Just for record though i'm not on the LT train either though.

Ya i know most top prospects don't throw but i think it's stupid, go out there and show what you got. I don't think it goes against you at all unless you have some flaws in your footwork/motion/arm strength. Don't think scouts or teams care if you don't place the ball perfect on a WR you met 10 minutes before. I just want to see his improvements and his throws/velocity to nfl caliber recievers running NFL route tree.

[Nightfyre]

He threw every route in the route tree in the Baylor game about three times over, IIRC. I don't see what him throwing in shorts is going to prove.

[hometeam]

He threw every route in the route tree in the Baylor game about three times over, IIRC. I don't see what him throwing in shorts is going to prove.

Now now, no need to muddy up this discussion with facts.

[fairladyZ]

again i want to see what he's been working on. I'm sure he has done the route tree but i want to see it with improved footwork and velocity

[BossChief]

I sometimes feel like you don't read much.

I've spoken to my reasons several times and so far the best response you or anyone else seems inclined to give is "well other guys don't do it" as though that's some sort of substantive retort.

I. do. not. give. a. shit. if. past. quarterbacks. haven't. thrown.

I've now said it 4 times, is it clear enough yet? Past quarterbacks weren't coming on the heels of the Luck/RGIII draft and having to prove their mettle in a fairly bunched QB class (that is regarded as a QB poor draft as it is).

Geno is facing a set of circumstances that are relatively unique this year and he's going to do nothing more than a single pro day to not only separate himself from his QB peers, but guys like Joeckel, Moore, etc...; that's a massive error in judgment.he has 3 years of tape showing him throwing to many targets against varying competition...but you think he should go out in shorts to "prove he can still do it and that its repeatable."

Sorry, I disagree and professional agents disagree, as well.

Blaming Geno for what he is or isn't doing is a bit off-base I think. He's not making any decisions in a bubble, and I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with his level of confidence. He's paying people to advise him on what to do, so when he doesn't go to the Senior Bowl, or does/doesn't throw at the combine, it's because somebody who does this kind of thing for a living is telling him it's the right thing to do.took the words out of my mouth.

He threw every route in the route tree in the Baylor game about three times over, IIRC. I don't see what him throwing in shorts is going to prove.so did you.

[O.city]

He threw every route in the route tree in the Baylor game about three times over, IIRC. I don't see what him throwing in shorts is going to prove.

Well, doing it against Baylor was about like wearing shorts.


He didn't do it against Syracuse. Or Kstate.

[O.city]

Just because he's being told not to do it, doesn't make it the right decision.

[Sorter]

LMAONow now, no need to muddy up this discussion with facts.

[BossChief]

Fitzpatrick
Tannehill
Brady
Sanchez
Flacco
Dalton
Weeden
Rothlisberger
Shaub
Luck
Gabbert
Locker
Manning
Cassel
Palmer
Rivers
Romo
Eli
Foles
RG3
Cutler
Stafford
Rodgers
Ponder
Ryan
Newton
Brees
Freeman
Kolb
Bradford
Kaepernick
Wilson

I might be inclined to retract my top ten comment and push it back to top 15 as it sits...with work on his lower body, there is no reason to think he can't jump up one group and be in the op ten because I don't think there is a big difference between his arm and Rodgers'.

Show me te guys on that list that CLEARLY have a stronger arm than Geno.

I don't think there are more than maybe 5 more that I didn't highlight.

[fairladyZ]

i have yet to see him make an aaron rogers throw. Even in all the gifs and videos you guys post i haven't seen a rocket arm like rodgers. He's got a strong arm but it's nowhere near rodgers. Maybe with footwork he can come close but i still don't think he'll have that strong of an arm as rodgers or the elites in the NFL

[Strongside]

i have yet to see him make an aaron rogers throw. Even in all the gifs and videos you guys post i haven't seen a rocket arm like rodgers. He's got a strong arm but it's nowhere near rodgers. Maybe with footwork he can come close but i still don't think he'll have that strong of an arm as rodgers or the elites in the NFL

I thought BlackBob got banned?

[O.city]

Aaron Rogers type arm? Eh, thats really pushing it.

[RealSNR]

Loves me some chocolate thunder

[BossChief]

Like I said, I think Rodgers arm is stronger...but I don't think the gap between the two is as big as DJ would make it out to be.

Geno can make any throw with plenty of zip.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Fitzpatrick
Tannehill
Brady
Sanchez
Flacco
Dalton
Weeden
Rothlisberger
Shaub
Luck
Gabbert
Locker
Manning
Cassel
Palmer
Rivers
Romo
Eli
Foles
RG3
Cutler
Stafford
Rodgers
Ponder
Ryan
Newton
Brees
Freeman
Kolb
Bradford
Kaepernick
Wilson

I might be inclined to retract my top ten comment and push it back to top 15 as it sits...with work on his lower body, there is no reason to think he can't jump up one group and be in the op ten because I don't think there is a big difference between his arm and Rodgers'.

Show me te guys on that list that CLEARLY have a stronger arm than Geno.

I don't think there are more than maybe 5 more that I didn't highlight.

I would add Freeman and RG3.

[SAUTO]

Luck has a pretty good arm too
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

I would add Freeman and RG3.

Tannehill, Rodgers, rg3, freeman, Luck and Gabbert are the guys that I see as having arm strength that is at a similar level to Geno.

[O.city]

I hadn't really given it alot of thought, but looking at that list, there aren't a whole lot of guys in the NFL that have cannons. They all have good arms, but the Staffords, Kaeps Culters are rare.

[fairladyZ]

Like I said, I think Rodgers arm is stronger...but I don't think the gap between the two is as big as DJ would make it out to be.

Geno can make any throw with plenty of zip.

i think it is a pretty big gap between the 2. I think geno's got a strong arm but i don't think it's much stronger than barkley's or wilson's. I've seen barkley make some of the same throw's geno's made.

the NFL elites are just a completely different animal. Not saying geno can't get up in the discussion but i don't think he'll match the others people have spoken of.

[MeatRock]

Where's Cassel on that list? :harumph: :bolt:

[fairladyZ]

Tannehill, Rodgers, rg3, freeman, Luck and Gabbert are the guys that I see as having arm strength that is at a similar level to Geno.

agree with that list except rodgers and luck.. Both those guys could give stafford and cutler runs for their money on arm strength.

[Strongside]

Where's Cassel on that list? :harumph: :bolt:

Right under the Toronto Argonauts waterboy.

[BossChief]

I hadn't really given it alot of thought, but looking at that list, there aren't a whole lot of guys in the NFL that have cannons. They all have good arms, but the Staffords, Kaeps Culters are rare.

That's what I'm trying to show...that Geno has the potential to be just outside the elite arms in the league with some tweaking before and after the draft.

Weinke and Reid can take care of that.

[mcaj22]

That's what I'm trying to show...that Geno has the potential to be just outside the elite arms in the league with some tweaking before and after the draft.

Weinke and Reid can take care of that.

When did Chris Weinke become a Chiefs coach?

[O.city]

IMO, arm strength is a little overblown at times. Yeah, you have to have it, to an extent, but it isn't the end all be all.


Now you can't be Pennington, that just won't cut it.

I think Geno could, with the lower body tweets and better mechanics, easily get into the upper half, but he just doesn't have the physical skill some of those guys do.

[O.city]

I'll take a guy with elite accuracy and timing and a good to great arm, than a guy with an elite cannon and questionable accuracy.

[Strongside]

Weinke and Reid can take care of that.

If, according to George Toma and Gil Brandt, Andy Reid can fix Matt Cassel...then he should be able to have Geno killing fans in the stands from 95+ yards on a rope.

[fairladyZ]

i have no doubt geno would be in the top half of the league fixing his footwork.

Elite arm strength would be Kaep, vick, stafford, rodgers, cutler, luck, flacco
i think next level would be eli, big ben, freeman, tannehill, rg3.
Think geno could be in the next level maybe just under those guys.

I'm not going to lie i would love to have someone with elite arm strength and accuracy, but would rather have above average arm and accuracy like others have said. Elite is just cool for that wow factor.

[BossChief]

IMO, arm strength is a little overblown at times. Yeah, you have to have it, to an extent, but it isn't the end all be all.


Now you can't be Pennington, that just won't cut it.

I think Geno could, with the lower body tweets and better mechanics, easily get into the upper half, but he just doesn't have the physical skill some of those guys do.

Get into the upper half?

Which 16 are above him WITHOUT THE TWEAKS?

[BossChief]

When did Chris Weinke become a Chiefs coach?

"Before and after the draft"

[DJ's left nut]

I might be inclined to retract my top ten comment and push it back to top 15 as it sits...with work on his lower body, there is no reason to think he can't jump up one group and be in the op ten because I don't think there is a big difference between his arm and Rodgers'.

Show me te guys on that list that CLEARLY have a stronger arm than Geno.


When Geno isn't using his legs correctly - these guys are all harder throwers than Geno:

Tannehill
Brady
Flacco
Weeden
Rothlisberger
Luck
Gabbert
Eli
RG3
Cutler
Stafford
Rodgers
Newton
Freeman
Kaepernick

I think you're mixing his potential with what he actually does.

He has the talent to put himself above 1/2 the guys on that list, but when he's arm throwing and not driving with his legs, he's just another Bradford.

[DeezNutz]

Arm strength is probably the most undervalued quality in terms of modern analysis of the position.

[Strongside]

Arm strength is probably the most undervalued quality in terms of modern analysis of the position.

It can be pretty overrated as well though.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/734719_10151367515121100_472008452_n.jpg

[BossChief]

When Geno isn't using his legs correctly - these guys are all harder throwers than Geno:

Tannehill
Brady
Flacco
Weeden
Rothlisberger
Luck
Gabbert
Eli
RG3
Cutler
Stafford
Rodgers
Newton
Freeman
Kaepernick

I think you're mixing his potential with what he actually does.

He has the talent to put himself above 1/2 the guys on that list, but when he's arm throwing and not driving with his legs, he's just another Bradford.

Those things (throwing without proper mechanics from top to bottom) can be said about nearly every single quarterback in the NFL. I think it's fair to say that without tweaks, he is top half of the league in arm strength. Now, should we break down his accuracy so we can find out where he comes in as an overall thrower?

I probably overrate him there, too.

[O.city]

IF he consistently gets his footwork where it needs to be, I'd put him about on par with Eli or Luck, maybe Roethlisberger.


Which is certainly adequate, hell more than adequate, it's perfect. It seems alot of those guys who have rockets struggle with touch and accuracy.

[O.city]

Those things can be said about nearly every single quarterback in the NFL. I think it's fair to say that without tweaks, he is top half of the league in arm strength. Now, should we break down his accuracy so we can find out where he comes in as an overall thrower?

I probably overrate him there, too.

When he flips his hips and doesn't drive? No, he certainly isn't.

[DJ's left nut]

Arm strength is probably the most undervalued quality in terms of modern analysis of the position.

I think it went from wildly overrated to wildly underrated.

I don't recall who, maybe Duncan, that pointed out that Geno has good arm strength but not so great so that he can make all throws from all angles and I think that's a perfect way to put it.

Guys like Cutler and Stafford can just rip the ball with mechanics falling to shit and a maelstrom swirling around them. Meanwhile a guy like Cassel could throw a ball fairly hard if he had absolutely perfect mechanics and a clear pocket to step into and fire.

Geno isn't nearly as bad as Cassel but he does need his mechanics to get a piss rocket out there. But unlike a lot of guys in this league, when he has his legs under him, he can get you a hell of a fastball into tightly closing windows.

[keg in kc]

Just because he's being told not to do it, doesn't make it the right decision.And us thinking it's the right or wrong decision doesn't make it so, either.

[fairladyZ]

hey DJ have you studied much on the other QB's? mainly barkley? your thoughts on barkley? he's probably my front runner for QB but thats just me. I think his arm strength is under estimated as he throws alot of touch passes. Seen him rifle them in there when needed. He's at IMG aswell isn't he?

[BossChief]

After this conversation, I anxiously await us taking him and seeing his improvement under a QB guru like Reid that knows what to look for and how to coach the flaws out.

[DeezNutz]

I think it went from wildly overrated to wildly underrated.

I don't recall who, maybe Duncan, that pointed out that Geno has good arm strength but not so great so that he can make all throws from all angles and I think that's a perfect way to put it.

Agree with all of this, including duncan's assessment. Imagine that dude finally contributing something of value...

I should revise my previous statement from "modern analysis" to "current analysis," since it's not like 1998 was the pre-modern world, though technological advancements might suggest otherwise.

[DJ's left nut]

Those things (throwing without proper mechanics from top to bottom) can be said about nearly every single quarterback in the NFL. I think it's fair to say that without tweaks, he is top half of the league in arm strength. Now, should we break down his accuracy so we can find out where he comes in as an overall thrower?

I probably overrate him there, too.

And I think that's all I said - that when his feet aren't under him, he's got an average arm; Bradford-esqe.

As to his accuracy, I think he's at 8-10 in the league but man that's a hard thing to compare. Coming out of college, Bradford was the most accurate passer I saw in years. I thought he would be a guy that would come into the NFL and be among the top 5 most precise passers out there.

As it turns out, his accuracy is above average, but not elite. Because of that (and some other guys I overrated a little bit), I've started tempering my thoughts on a college QBs accuracy until I see it in action at the next level. I think his is superb, but it's hard to bet much on it.

As a pure thrower, he looks outstanding to me. The question will be how he reacts when the bullets are flying and how he handles teaching, because he does need a little bit.

[O.city]

And us thinking it's the right or wrong decision doesn't make it so, either.

Touche.

[BossChief]

When he flips his hips and doesn't drive? No, he certainly isn't.

Again, this can be said of any quarterback that gets lazy with the fundamentals and mechanics.

[O.city]

Again, this can be said of any quarterback that gets lazy with the fundamentals and mechanics.

No, it can't.


The elite arm guys, Stafford, Cutler etc, can be absolutely awful mechanically and still spin it.


Now if you want to talk about accuracy and timing, thats a different story.

[BossChief]

And I think that's all I said - that when his feet aren't under him, he's got an average arm; Bradford-esqe.

As to his accuracy, I think he's at 8-10 in the league but man that's a hard thing to compare. Coming out of college, Bradford was the most accurate passer I saw in years. I thought he would be a guy that would come into the NFL and be among the top 5 most precise passers out there.

As it turns out, his accuracy is above average, but not elite. Because of that (and some other guys I overrated a little bit), I've started tempering my thoughts on a college QBs accuracy until I see it in action at the next level. I think his is superb, but it's hard to bet much on it.

As a pure thrower, he looks outstanding to me. The question will be how he reacts when the bullets are flying and how he handles teaching, because he does need a little bit.

I'd love to read a post draft interview where they (Dorsey, Reid) admit that they had Geno #1 all along and that Clark hired a cast of QB specialists to help identify te top guy and make the best effort possible to help him develop his skills.

[O.city]

My biggest thing against Geno, is that when things start breaking down, those are the times his fundamentals go to shit and he falls too much in love with his touch at times.


Thats the best thing about Brady. His mechanics are pretty much flawless. He doesn't really have a great arm, but a good solid arm with elite elite accuracy.

[htismaqe]

Just because he's being told not to do it, doesn't make it the right decision.

Just because we want to see him throw doesn't make it the wrong decision either.

[htismaqe]

i think it is a pretty big gap between the 2. I think geno's got a strong arm but i don't think it's much stronger than barkley's or wilson's. I've seen barkley make some of the same throw's geno's made.

the NFL elites are just a completely different animal. Not saying geno can't get up in the discussion but i don't think he'll match the others people have spoken of.

Geno's arm is quite a bit stronger than Barkley's.

[BossChief]

No, it can't.


The elite arm guys, Stafford, Cutler etc, can be absolutely awful mechanically and still spin it.


Now if you want to talk about accuracy and timing, thats a different story.

Show me where I said he could get into the group with Stafford and Cutler...I think you mistook what I said. I thought I was clear that even with tweaks he will be just outside that group.

What I did say was that you can say that any quarterback in the NFL losses velocity when they don't use proper mechanics.

That's why a pass rush is so vital to today's defenses...if you can make quarterbacks uncomfortable, you can make him rush his throws and therefore take some velocity and accuracy off the all.

[BossChief]

My biggest thing against Geno, is that when things start breaking down, those are the times his fundamentals go to shit and he falls too much in love with his touch at times.


Thats the best thing about Brady. His mechanics are pretty much flawless. He doesn't really have a great arm, but a good solid arm with elite elite accuracy.

NFL coaching will do that.

I'm not heavily impressed with Dana, tbh.

[O.city]

Show me where I said he could get into the group with Stafford and Cutler...I think you mistook what I said. I thought I was clear that even with tweaks he will be just outside that group.

What I did say was that you can say that any quarterback in the NFL losses velocity when they don't use proper mechanics.

That's why a pass rush is so vital to today's defenses...if you can make quarterbacks uncomfortable, you can make him rush his throws and therefore take some velocity and accuracy off the all.

No where am I saying he can get into that group or that you said he can. He can't. He doesn't have the physical gifts those guys do.

I'm just saying those guys can break down mechanics and still spin it. They lose accuracy and a few have questionable accuracy to begin with.

[htismaqe]

The elite arm guys, Stafford, Cutler etc, can be absolutely awful mechanically and still spin it.

To an opposing player.

I'm pretty sick of hearing about Cutler. If he didn't have an elite arm, he wouldn't even be a starter in the league.

[O.city]

Just because we want to see him throw doesn't make it the wrong decision either.

Sure.


But running around saying its in his best interest not to do it, simply because previous guys didn't or he is being advised not to doesn't mean it isn't a questionable decision.


It may work out, it may not.

[DeezNutz]

Not throwing at combine? Link?

[O.city]

To an opposing player.

I'm pretty sick of hearing about Cutler. If he didn't have an elite arm, he wouldn't even be a starter in the league.

Well, thats getting a little apples to oranges.


We aren't talking about accuracy. We are talking about arm strength.

[O.city]

Again, guys, I'm not trying to sling shit at Geno. I'm a big fan. I'm just having a discussion. We haven't had one of those around in a while where there wasn't yelling and gnashing off teeth and mothers being fucked.

[BossChief]

Not throwing at combine? Link?

The missing link, anyway.

We are just discussing the merits on how each of us would react to him not throwing...if that turns out to be the case.

[Strongside]

This is from a little earlier in the year, but still good stuff...

Comparing RG3 and Geno
http://www.optimumscouting.com/draft/articles/2013-nfl-draft-comparing-geno-smith-and-robert-griffin.html

In differentiating these two prospects, it’s clear that Geno Smith is following Robert Griffin III’s footsteps in becoming the next hot prospect and potential top 5 overall draft choice. Their production, physical build, arm talent, accuracy, and explosive supporting casts are remarkably similar, but the intriguing aspect of this comparison, is how much further developed Geno Smith appears to be. Not the Olympic hurdler that Griffin was, or possessing the same 4.4 speed, Geno Smith has become the player he is today, through polished throwing mechanics, precise footwork, and feel for the game.

So in a sense, the choice of which quarterback is better than the other ultimately comes down to what you value more –high floor or high ceiling. Robert Griffin III’s combination of deep passing ability and elite athletic attributes paint a stark contrast to Geno Smith’s calculated approach and highly accurate arm. To me, Geno Smith is every bit, worthy of the top 5 pick that RG3 warranted, especially for teams in need of a franchise quarterback.

[htismaqe]

Sure.


But running around saying its in his best interest not to do it, simply because previous guys didn't or he is being advised not to doesn't mean it isn't a questionable decision.


It may work out, it may not.

Nobody is saying it's in his best interest not to do it.

I've said all along that its possible, and even likely, that he is BEING ADVISED its in his best interest not to do it.

And the fact that guys have skipped it before without consequence certainly suggests that if he decides to skip it, he will be just fine.

[htismaqe]

Again, guys, I'm not trying to sling shit at Geno. I'm a big fan. I'm just having a discussion. We haven't had one of those around in a while where there wasn't yelling and gnashing off teeth and mothers being fucked.

Totally.

[BossChief]

It's so nice to not have Blackbob shitting on discussions like this one, anymore.

[O.city]

Nobody is saying it's in his best interest not to do it.

I've said all along that its possible, and even likely, that he is BEING ADVISED its in his best interest not to do it.

And the fact that guys have skipped it before without consequence certainly suggests that if he decides to skip it, he will be just fine.

Yes, but this situation is a little different. Normally, when a QB skips it, it's because he's the head and shoulders QB of that class. Based on what we are being told, at this point, Geno isn't considered to be that.


Like I said, maybe what we are being told is wrong, maybe what Geno is being told is wrong. I'd think his agents have a better idea of what teams are thinking than some internet mock draft guys do, but at this point we just don't know.

[silver5liter]

hey DJ have you studied much on the other QB's? mainly barkley? your thoughts on barkley? he's probably my front runner for QB but thats just me. I think his arm strength is under estimated as he throws alot of touch passes. Seen him rifle them in there when needed. He's at IMG aswell isn't he?
Barkley is cool if you like noodle arm usc qbs

[fairladyZ]

Geno's arm is quite a bit stronger than Barkley's.

i've seen everything that's been posted, like i've said i haven't watched all his games like some have but i have yet to see geno make a throw barkley can't. I'm not bashing geno i'm just saying i dont think his arm is much above barkley's. i think barkley has a under estimated arm for sure. If you can show me otherwise i'm open to seeing a throw geno has made that barkley can't.

7U1dIfiKrQk

If you watch just from like 12 minutes on he has a number of throws that are above average arm strength and on par with geno's that i've seen. If you watch the whole video you'll see him flip the ball down off his back foot for 40yrds just like i've seen geno do. Now matt's footwork is near perfect and i still think he can get a little stronger in his arm. But very good possibility once geno fixes his mechanical issue he will have a stronger arm for sure.

[O.city]

Barkley doesn't have a noodle arm, but he's a guy that I think has pretty much hit his ceiling in terms of physical abilities. He can't tweek his footwork etc as much.

[Strongside]

Barkley is cool if you like noodle arm usc qbs

O'hai gais!
http://i.imgur.com/lFMwhAz.png

[silver5liter]

O'hai gais!
http://eppsnet.com/images/usc-quarterbacks.jpg I can't see this picture on my phone, but I'm just imagining a picture of Matt cassel

[O.city]

i've seen everything that's been posted, like i've said i haven't watched all his games like some have but i have yet to see geno make a throw barkley can't. I'm not bashing geno i'm just saying i dont think his arm is much above barkley's. i think barkley has a under estimated arm for sure. If you can show me otherwise i'm open to seeing a throw geno has made that barkley can't.

7U1dIfiKrQk

If you watch just from like 12 minutes on he has a number of throws that are above average arm strength and on par with geno's that i've seen. If you watch the whole video you'll see him flip the ball down off his back foot for 40yrds just like i've seen geno do. Now matt's footwork is near perfect and i still think he can get a little stronger in his arm. But very good possibility once geno fixes his mechanical issue he will have a stronger arm for sure.

Well, to be honest, you answered your own question. Barkley is pretty much polished to the point that what you are seeing now is the ceiling. He doesn't have the arm strength.

[silver5liter]

Well, to be honest, you answered your own question. Barkley is pretty much polished to the point that what you are seeing now is the ceiling. He doesn't have the arm strength.

Basically this. his arm isn't as strong as genos.

[Strongside]

I can't see this picture on my phone, but I'm just imagining a picture of Matt cassel

fixed...now try it...link was broken.

[silver5liter]

fixed...now try it...link was broken.

My god that is amazing, I was close lol

[BossChief]

I wouldn't be pissed if we took Barkley, but I would be disappointed. The kid is like Palmer, who was a really good player till he got kimod.

[BossChief]

My god that is amazing, I was close lol

If that ever happens, hit the post number towards the top right of he post and it will open that single post in a separate window. That's the only way I can see some of the posted pics when I'm on my phone.

[fairladyZ]

Basically this. his arm isn't as strong as genos.

oh for sure i think mechanically he's tapped out, i think he can get a little stronger but not much. But also in that list we've been talking about of QB's in the league i would put barkley's arm in the top half of the league right now the way it sits. Yes geno as far as arm talent has a higher ceiling then barkley.

I don't think matt has hit his ceiling as a QB though. he's a smart kid with very very high football IQ. with changing plays and audibling at the line he could very well become the chess match guru like peyton is at the line.

what about this as a connection. Andy reid is mormon.. Barkley is mormon.. #1 overall? lol

[O.city]

Coming from USC, Barkley is pretty much a finished project at this point. And no, he's not in the top half of the league.

[htismaqe]

Yes, but this situation is a little different. Normally, when a QB skips it, it's because he's the head and shoulders QB of that class. Based on what we are being told, at this point, Geno isn't considered to be that.


Like I said, maybe what we are being told is wrong, maybe what Geno is being told is wrong. I'd think his agents have a better idea of what teams are thinking than some internet mock draft guys do, but at this point we just don't know.

Is it different, or have we just been convinced that it is?

I also tend to think his agents are much better informed than we are.

[htismaqe]

Barkley doesn't have a noodle arm, but he's a guy that I think has pretty much hit his ceiling in terms of physical abilities. He can't tweek his footwork etc as much.

This.

Noodle arm? No.

But Geno has a slight edge in arm strength right now and if Geno can work on his mechanics, that gap will get wider and wider.

[silver5liter]

He also had an under 70 percent completion rate, 15 ints, throwing to some of the best talented wrs in the league with a great line (which geno and Wilson didn't get the benefit of)

[htismaqe]

oh for sure i think mechanically he's tapped out, i think he can get a little stronger but not much. But also in that list we've been talking about of QB's in the league i would put barkley's arm in the top half of the league right now the way it sits. Yes geno as far as arm talent has a higher ceiling then barkley.

I don't think matt has hit his ceiling as a QB though. he's a smart kid with very very high football IQ. with changing plays and audibling at the line he could very well become the chess match guru like peyton is at the line.

what about this as a connection. Andy reid is mormon.. Barkley is mormon.. #1 overall? lol

I don't see any Peyton Manning in Barkley, sorry.

[silver5liter]

This.

Noodle arm? No.

But Geno has a slight edge in arm strength right now and if Geno can work on his mechanics, that gap will get wider and wider.
Ok, not a full on noodle, like maybe a half cooked noodle.

[fairladyZ]

This.

Noodle arm? No.

But Geno has a slight edge in arm strength right now and if Geno can work on his mechanics, that gap will get wider and wider.

agreed geno's arm is a slight edge at this point and has potential to grow i've never said otherwise. I just say barkley's arm is above average and under estimated by most.

And barkley's line WAS not very good, and neither was his Defense. Yes he had stud WR's but so did Geno. Barkley kept his team in the oregon and UCLA games and USC went to complete and total shit once they lost him for the season

[silver5liter]

agreed geno's arm is a slight edge at this point and has potential to grow i've never said otherwise. I just say barkley's arm is above average and under estimated by most.

And barkley's line WAS not very good, and neither was his Defense. Yes he had stud WR's but so did Geno. Barkley kept his team in the oregon and UCLA games and USC went to complete and total shit once they lost him for the season
Barkleys line was pretty damn good man. I don't have the stats but watching Wvus line and uscs its like night and day.

[O.city]

Is it different, or have we just been convinced that it is?

I also tend to think his agents are much better informed than we are.

Well, I'd hope you would consider me to be a little more informed and do my own judgement not basing it on the talking head mock drafting guys.

And yes, I'm sure they are more informed. They are paid to be and have connections. All we are doing is speculating.


I'm speculating that based on his last half season of game tape, he has some questions to answer. I could say that his system got figured out and Holgorson is a moron, that he wasn't as bad as every one said, and that there were other factors playing into that, but I don't want to get shackled with being a Geno ite or whatever.


So I'm just going to say that, I would like to see him throw at the combine, but if he's being told "Hey, the Chiefs are already locked into you at 1" yeah I wouldn't throw.

But I don't personally see that being the case.

[fairladyZ]

I don't see any Peyton Manning in Barkley, sorry.

not yet no but i think he has the smarts and the drive to push himself to try to get there. smart with pre-snap reads, smart with audibles, very good at manipulating defenses with his eyes, has a great pumpfake, student of the game and has been being groomed since a boy to do this. I think barkley has the highest floor out of the QB's and has just as high a ceiling as the others.

really wish he was taller though

[fairladyZ]

Barkleys line was pretty damn good man. I don't have the stats but watching Wvus line and uscs its like night and day.

i wouldn't say it was pretty damn good.. THey hurt pretty bad by loosing kalil. THey weren't as bad was WVU but they weren't good by any means.

[O.city]

not yet no but i think he has the smarts and the drive to push himself to try to get there. smart with pre-snap reads, smart with audibles, very good at manipulating defenses with his eyes, has a great pumpfake, student of the game and has been being groomed since a boy to do this. I think barkley has the highest floor out of the QB's and has just as high a ceiling as the others.

really wish he was taller though

This is where you are getting off though. His physical abilities don't allow him to have as high of a ceiling as the others.


All that stuff you just said is great, and I'm sure he could be great at it. But in the end he has to have arm strength and accuracy to get the ball where it needs to go.


Thats what I question.

[RunKC]

I can see Barkley succeeding here. We have the talent/coaching to help him out.

Charles has helped much worse look like a competent *ahem Cassel*

[fairladyZ]

he has plenty of arm strength for the NFL and he's plenty accurate to. Hell he's got a stronger arm that half the NFL at this point. Accuracy he's had and he can even learn more and go farther. Especially with a system and coach like reid. Hell peyton has a ****ing NOODLE arm but he does what he does cause he's smart and he has the system perfectly fit to him.

I'm a firm believer that accuracy is a product of the system that you put around your QB. Granted there is natural accuracy, that i think barkley and geno both have. But system and coaching can take it to that elite level, ala geno in his air raid system with his teams system

[O.city]

I don't know if you follow Nick Jacobs on Twitter, but he just made an interesting point about Geno in the KSU game.


Basically said KSU baited Geno into throws, were sound defensively and that Geno was limited by the WVU o philosophy and took what KSU gave him.

[BossChief]

The system DID get figured out and Dana h did little to nothing to adapt to that. Maybe that was coaching or maybe it was talent outside of the two receivers...maybe it was Geno himself not being able to figure out what the defenses were trying to do to him.

That's where it's hard to make a real judgement with such limited info available to us.

No doubt everything got turned sideways by KSt and never turned back.

If Geno is able to answer those questions in the meeting rooms, he will go first overall, if he isn't able to...he could be waiting to be drafted for som time.

Should be interesting.

[O.city]

he has plenty of arm strength for the NFL and he's plenty accurate to. Hell he's got a stronger arm that half the NFL at this point. Accuracy he's had and he can even learn more and go farther. Especially with a system and coach like reid. Hell peyton has a ****ing NOODLE arm but he does what he does cause he's smart and he has the system perfectly fit to him.

I'm a firm believer that accuracy is a product of the system that you put around your QB.

Accuracy is wha????


Barkley struggled with accuracy this year throwing a career high in INTs.


Barkley has the ceiling of a high end game manager. You can win with that, even win a playoff game or two. But without an elite group around him, I tend to think thats about it.

[htismaqe]

Well, I'd hope you would consider me to be a little more informed and do my own judgement not basing it on the talking head mock drafting guys.

And yes, I'm sure they are more informed. They are paid to be and have connections. All we are doing is speculating.


I'm speculating that based on his last half season of game tape, he has some questions to answer. I could say that his system got figured out and Holgorson is a moron, that he wasn't as bad as every one said, and that there were other factors playing into that, but I don't want to get shackled with being a Geno ite or whatever.


So I'm just going to say that, I would like to see him throw at the combine, but if he's being told "Hey, the Chiefs are already locked into you at 1" yeah I wouldn't throw.

But I don't personally see that being the case.

Why don't you see that being the case?

What I am seeing Is paralysis by analysis. We've heard so many times that this class of QBs is weak and there is no Luck that we're subconsciously looking for reasons why the Chiefs might not take him.

If there's one thing I am pretty sure of its that we care A LOT more about whether he throws at the combine than the NFL teams do. They've got his tape and they know even more than we do what they are watching.

At the combine, they want to sit in a room with him and pick his brain. If he throws, that's the icing on the cake.

As for being labeled a Geno-ite, I can't imagine why you would say that. You would prefer to ignore the TRUTH in hopes that people wouldn't label you as being subjective? That's just crazy talk.

Was Sam Bradford a sure fire #1 pick? Because I sure as hell don't see a lot of difference.

[O.city]

I can see Barkley succeeding here. We have the talent/coaching to help him out.

Charles has helped much worse look like a competent *ahem Cassel*

ABG right? :evil:

[htismaqe]

not yet no but i think he has the smarts and the drive to push himself to try to get there. smart with pre-snap reads, smart with audibles, very good at manipulating defenses with his eyes, has a great pumpfake, student of the game and has been being groomed since a boy to do this. I think barkley has the highest floor out of the QB's and has just as high a ceiling as the others.

really wish he was taller though

Just don't agree at all.

He has the highest floor, yes. But his ceiling isn't close to Wilson's or Geno's.