The blatant hold on the safety play in SB...

[KChiefer]

The rusher literally got piggyback bear-hugged. Why wasn't it called?

Now, I get that even if they had called it, the play would have resulted in a safety anyways, but it was obvious that they intended to hold to allow the punter to use as much time as possible. They have rules to prevent teams from taking a penalty in order to save time, shouldn't there be a rule to prevent teams from playing illegally to kill more time?


http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000135600/Ravens-play-it-smart

[Iowanian]

I was more gassed by the Baltimore player taking a swing at the ref after the melee in the first half, no flag and no ejection.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I was more gassed by the Baltimore player taking a swing at the ref after the melee in the first half, no flag and no ejection.

yeah, the kid from Washburn University. Lucky he wasn't ejected.

[Rasputin]

The results of the game would have been the same.

[mdchiefsfan]

I was more gassed by the Baltimore player taking a swing at the ref after the melee in the first half, no flag and no ejection.

Yea I was shocked at that. Cary Williams got really lucky there.

[Rausch]

So now we think the NFL has some input?...

[Rasputin]

The results of the game would have been the same.

Is that a haiku?

[DaFace]

I agree that, normally, that should have been called. However, the refs in that game were clearly trying to let the players play and get out of the way, which I like. There were other similar no-calls earlier in the game, so I'm OK with that one not being called.

(And I was rooting for the 9ers for the record.)

[King_Chief_Fan]

Not sure what the point to your question is?
It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the play or game.

[mdchiefsfan]

I agree that, normally, that should have been called. However, the refs in that game were clearly trying to let the players play and get out of the way, which I like. There were other similar no-calls earlier in the game, so I'm OK with that one not being called.

(And I was rooting for the 9ers for the record.)

Yup. That is one of the great things about playoffs and Super Bowl. The hits are a bit harder and players are allowed to play.

[-King-]

Didn't matter AT ALL. A holding call would have resulted in a safety. Hell, John could have told his players to tackle all of the 49ers players and it wouldn't have changed anything. Really smart players probably held as much as they could that play.

[htismaqe]

Didn't matter AT ALL. A holding call would have resulted in a safety. Hell, John could have told his players to tackle all of the 49ers players and it wouldn't have changed anything. Really smart players probably held as much as they could that play.

This.

[DJ's left nut]

I agree that, normally, that should have been called. However, the refs in that game were clearly trying to let the players play and get out of the way, which I like. There were other similar no-calls earlier in the game, so I'm OK with that one not being called.

(And I was rooting for the 9ers for the record.)

Well until the end there, when they decided not to do that anymore and extended the Ravens drive on 3rd down with an incredibly weak PI call which led to what was ultimately a game winning FG.

The 49ers earned their loss by playing like garbage for a half and then allowing a kickoff TD, but the zebras absolutely played a role in that game for the last 2 drives and that's a damn shame.

[KChiefer]

Not sure what the point to your question is?
It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the play or game.

No it wouldn't have changed the outcome, but a penalty is a penalty, no?

And when you're playing illegally in order to gain an advantage more valuable than the penalty that you'd take, there are rules that try to make doing that no longer a viable option.

So what I'm saying is there should be a rule that if you get called for a hold(or some other penalty) while leading inside of 2 minutes, you take the penalty, don't lose a down however all time is put back on the clock prior to that play happening. Teams shouldn't be allowed to hold in order to burn more time off the clock.

[MagicHef]

Didn't matter AT ALL. A holding call would have resulted in a safety. Hell, John could have told his players to tackle all of the 49ers players and it wouldn't have changed anything. Really smart players probably held as much as they could that play.

It would have resulted in more time on the clock, I believe. Which was, after all, the point of the play.

[-King-]

It would have resulted in more time on the clock, I believe. Which was, after all, the point of the play.

What? A holding call wouldn't have resulted in more time on the clock. They never put back time on the clock at anytime.

[BigRock]

Teams shouldn't be allowed to hold in order to burn more time off the clock.

Plays don't get blown dead for holding calls. Maybe they should be in a situation like that, but the play still would have gone to its conclusion even if a flag was thrown.

On the other hand, though, what if the punter tripped over his own feet and fumbled and the refs had whistled it dead?

[htismaqe]

It would have resulted in more time on the clock, I believe. Which was, after all, the point of the play.

The play doesn't stop with the hold. The play stops when the player is down.

Holding calls are enforced after the play, therefore the time left on the clock would not have been affected.

[BigRedChief]

I agree that, normally, that should have been called. However, the refs in that game were clearly trying to let the players play and get out of the way, which I like. There were other similar no-calls earlier in the game, so I'm OK with that one not being called.

(And I was rooting for the 9ers for the record.)Holding in the end zone is a safety. Since they ended up taking the safety, I think the only thing that would have changed is adding a few seconds that they missed a chance at a possible hail mary.

[The Franchise]

I was more gassed by the Baltimore player taking a swing at the ref after the melee in the first half, no flag and no ejection.

Cary Williams. Dude should have been ejected immediately. That was bullshit.

[KChiefer]

Plays don't get blown dead for holding calls. Maybe they should be in a situation like that, but the play still would have gone to its conclusion even if a flag was thrown.

On the other hand, though, what if the punter tripped over his own feet and fumbled and the refs had whistled it dead?

The play shouldn't be blown dead. Let the play run, but when the flag is thrown the opposing team gets the choice to decline, or take the penalty and put the time back on the clock.

[BigRedChief]

Yup. That is one of the great things about playoffs and Super Bowl. The hits are a bit harder and players are allowed to play.There was an obvious conscious decision by the umpiring crew to just let the players play. The hit on Flacco will be called 99% of the time. A lot of contact between cornerbacks and receivers on both sides all game.

[The Franchise]

There was an obvious conscious decision by the umpiring crew to jsut let the players play. The hit on Flacco will be called 99% of the time. A lot of contact between cornerbacks and receivers on both sides all game.

They didn't follow that decision throughout the entire game.

[htismaqe]

Cary Williams. Dude should have been ejected immediately. That was bullshit.

It was obvious he wasn't targeting the ref. he got up and lashed out, the ref just happened to be in the way.

Sure, by the letter of the law, he should have been ejected. But I kind like the way the game was officiated "fast and loose".

[MagicHef]

The play doesn't stop with the hold. The play stops when the player is down.

Holding calls are enforced after the play, therefore the time left on the clock would not have been affected.

Well, never mind then. I thought that since a penalty effectively "wipes out" a play, the time the play used would not count.

[Rausch]

It was obvious he wasn't targeting the ref. he got up and lashed out, the ref just happened to be in the way.

Sure, by the letter of the law, he should have been ejected. But I kind like the way the game was officiated "fast and loose".

I wanted the 49'ers to win.

That said it's the SB.

And they got away with a TON of holding calls. In fact, I don't remember one being called...

[The Franchise]

It was obvious he wasn't targeting the ref. he got up and lashed out, the ref just happened to be in the way.

Sure, by the letter of the law, he should have been ejected. But I kind like the way the game was officiated "fast and loose".

So what was his explanation for continuing to scream at the ref and follow him around for?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gu4cu10-rhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[-King-]

So what was his explanation for continuing to scream at the ref and follow him around for?

Cary Williams didn’t know he shoved ref, calls 49ers “dirty”
Posted by Darin Gantt on February 4, 2013, 9:04 AM EST


Ravens cornerback Cary Williams called shoving a ref “a reaction,” and said he didn’t know who he was moving out of the pile during the second quarter fight that would have drawn more attention if it wasn’t followed by a brownout.

But he also called the 49ers “a little dirty,” and said his helmet was “kicked off.”

After Ed Reed’s interception triggered an altercation (“brawl” seems excessive, perhaps “melee” fits better) Williams clearly shoved an official with two hands, and could have been ejected on the spot.

“It was a situation where I didn’t see who the heck I pushed,” Williams said, via Lindsay Jones of USA Today. Those guys kicked my helmet off, took my helmet off man, it’s just a part of the process. Whatever.

“It’s a reaction. You see teammates out there getting hit late, guys pulling guys after the whistle. My helmet came off, I couldn’t barely see, and I just reacted. It is what it is.”

Williams correctly assessed that the fight was the result of nearly a half of chippy play that went unchecked, and was eventually going to boil over because game officials didn’t have control of the proceedings.

“The offensive line trying to be tough. Be tough between the whistles man. Don’t pull that crap after the damn whistle, man. I mean, I just felt like those guys were a little dirty. The refs should have thrown flags on them early on them in the game to stop that junk,” Williams said. “Sometimes you’ve got to retaliate, sometimes you have to show people we aren’t going to be pushed around. We do this. That’s been part of the Ravens defense for years, to show toughness, but we do it between the whistles.”

He was fortunate he was able to do it at all in the second half, as he should have been sitting in the dark with the fans watching.

[notorious]

Wow, 29 is going to get his ass destroyed by the NFL.


He went after an official? ROFL

[Iowanian]

You cannot put your hands on an official.

I'll bet he gets a big ass fine. Bigger than the half time show ass.


The perfect ending for this game would have been for Frank Gore to blow over Ray Lewis for the winning TD.

[The Franchise]

Cary Williams didn’t know he shoved ref, calls 49ers “dirty”
Posted by Darin Gantt on February 4, 2013, 9:04 AM EST


Ravens cornerback Cary Williams called shoving a ref “a reaction,” and said he didn’t know who he was moving out of the pile during the second quarter fight that would have drawn more attention if it wasn’t followed by a brownout.

But he also called the 49ers “a little dirty,” and said his helmet was “kicked off.”

After Ed Reed’s interception triggered an altercation (“brawl” seems excessive, perhaps “melee” fits better) Williams clearly shoved an official with two hands, and could have been ejected on the spot.

“It was a situation where I didn’t see who the heck I pushed,” Williams said, via Lindsay Jones of USA Today. Those guys kicked my helmet off, took my helmet off man, it’s just a part of the process. Whatever.

“It’s a reaction. You see teammates out there getting hit late, guys pulling guys after the whistle. My helmet came off, I couldn’t barely see, and I just reacted. It is what it is.”

Williams correctly assessed that the fight was the result of nearly a half of chippy play that went unchecked, and was eventually going to boil over because game officials didn’t have control of the proceedings.

“The offensive line trying to be tough. Be tough between the whistles man. Don’t pull that crap after the damn whistle, man. I mean, I just felt like those guys were a little dirty. The refs should have thrown flags on them early on them in the game to stop that junk,” Williams said. “Sometimes you’ve got to retaliate, sometimes you have to show people we aren’t going to be pushed around. We do this. That’s been part of the Ravens defense for years, to show toughness, but we do it between the whistles.”

He was fortunate he was able to do it at all in the second half, as he should have been sitting in the dark with the fans watching.

Yeah....bullshit.

Not knowing who you were pushing is one thing.....but following the ref around screaming at him while you're teammates are trying to hold you back is completely different. Dude should have been ejected.

[htismaqe]

So what was his explanation for continuing to scream at the ref and follow him around for?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gu4cu10-rhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I didn't see him do that at all. Watch that video again, he's yelling at the 49er player right in front of him.

[KChiefer]

So what was his explanation for continuing to scream at the ref and follow him around for?

He was going after the 49er and the ref continued keep them apart. He really should have been ejected for that push though. It's not like he couldn't see who he was shoving.

Overall, I liked that the teams moved the ball and not the zebras, still like others have said it's hard to accept that two of the most physical teams in football didn't hold the living hell out of each other on a lot of plays.

The Ravens only penalties where roughing the QB and running into the kicker? Wow.

[BigCatDaddy]

The refs let a lot go both ways. I think it was the right call not to bog it down with flags.

[htismaqe]

Williams is CLEARLY yelling at #49 the entire time. Watch the very end. The ref positioned himself between them and kept himself there.

[BigRedChief]

Wow, 29 is going to get his ass destroyed by the NFL.


He went after an official? ROFLthere has to be a line that's not crossed. Being excited and passionate is not an excuse. One of those refs could get hurt really bad. Some 6'7" 330 lb lineman gets pissed off in a pile and takes a swing at a ref. He could end up with more than a black eye.

[The Franchise]

Williams is CLEARLY yelling at #49 the entire time. Watch the very end. The ref positioned himself between them and kept himself there.

Yeah....I'll change my stance on that. Dude should have been ejected for the contact. Players have been ejected for smaller stuff than that.

[-King-]

Yeah....bullshit.

Not knowing who you were pushing is one thing.....but following the ref around screaming at him while you're teammates are trying to hold you back is completely different. Dude should have been ejected.

He was screaming at #49 on the 49ers.

[The Franchise]

He was screaming at #49 on the 49ers.

I got that. Still should have been ejected.

[Rausch]

there has to be a line that's not crossed. Being excited and passionate is not an excuse. One of those refs could get hurt really bad.

Even worse if they cross Ray Lewis...

[Lex Luthor]

The non-call when Crabtree was held in the end zone was total bullshit. The announcers tried to justify the non-call by saying both guys were putting their hands on each other. To me it looked like Crabtree was held and was trying to fight off the guy holding him. That would have been the winning touchdown. I like the idea of letting guys play, but that doesn't mean you let the defense get away with murder. (Unless it's Ray Lewis, of course.) :-)

If the zebras are going to make that extremely questionable PI call that kept the Ravens drive alive that led to the winning field goal, they ought to at least be consistent.

[htismaqe]

Yeah....I'll change my stance on that. Dude should have been ejected for the contact. Players have been ejected for smaller stuff than that.

Yeah, totally get that.

[The Franchise]

The non-call when Crabtree was held in the end zone was total bullshit. The announcers tried to justify the non-call by saying both guys were putting their hands on each other. To me it looked like Crabtree was held and was trying to fight off the guy holding him. That would have been the winning touchdown. I like the idea of letting guys play, but that doesn't mean you let the defense get away with murder. (Unless it's Ray Lewis, of course.) :-)

If the zebras are going to make that extremely questionable PI call that kept the Ravens drive alive that led to the winning field goal, they ought to at least be consistent.

The holding call at the end wasn't going to happen. No way the refs call that....especially because of the situation.

[htismaqe]

The non-call when Crabtree was held in the end zone was total bullshit. The announcers tried to justify the non-call by saying both guys were putting their hands on each other. To me it looked like Crabtree was held and was trying to fight off the guy holding him. That would have been the winning touchdown. I like the idea of letting guys play, but that doesn't mean you let the defense get away with murder. (Unless it's Ray Lewis, of course.) :-)

If the zebras are going to make that extremely questionable PI call that kept the Ravens drive alive that led to the winning field goal, they ought to at least be consistent.

Was it really catchable though?

[Rain Man]

When the safety play happened (which I didn't think was a good strategy to start with), I was shocked at how blatant the hold was. I see the point that you have to let the play continue, but that's a big loophole. If you want to kill 3 minutes, you can snap the ball to your most elusive running back, just tell every blocker to grab and bear hug the defender and hold them on the ground, and the runner can run all over the field trying to beat the one defender who isn't being held on the ground.

Now that I think about it, that would be a fun play to watch.

[BigCatDaddy]

The non-call when Crabtree was held in the end zone was total bullshit. The announcers tried to justify the non-call by saying both guys were putting their hands on each other. To me it looked like Crabtree was held and was trying to fight off the guy holding him. That would have been the winning touchdown. I like the idea of letting guys play, but that doesn't mean you let the defense get away with murder. (Unless it's Ray Lewis, of course.) :-)

If the zebras are going to make that extremely questionable PI call that kept the Ravens drive alive that led to the winning field goal, they ought to at least be consistent.

Herm said on the radio this morning that once Crabtree ran into and iniated the contact with Williams that there was no way a flag was coming out.

[gblowfish]

Beyonce has big nipples.

[jspchief]

I agree that, normally, that should have been called. However, the refs in that game were clearly trying to let the players play and get out of the way, which I like. There were other similar no-calls earlier in the game, so I'm OK with that one not being called.

(And I was rooting for the 9ers for the record.)I agree. It was a very well called game. The refs let the guys play.

[The Bad Guy]

The helmet to helmet contact on Crabtree on the end was awful.

[Dartgod]

Was it really catchable though?

I didn't think so. It landed pretty far OB. He could have caught it, but no way he gets two feet down in bounds.

[The Bad Guy]

I agree. It was a very well called game. The refs let the guys play.

Completely disagree that this was a well called game.

[Rain Man]

The non-call when Crabtree was held in the end zone was total bullshit. The announcers tried to justify the non-call by saying both guys were putting their hands on each other. To me it looked like Crabtree was held and was trying to fight off the guy holding him. That would have been the winning touchdown. I like the idea of letting guys play, but that doesn't mean you let the defense get away with murder. (Unless it's Ray Lewis, of course.) :-)

If the zebras are going to make that extremely questionable PI call that kept the Ravens drive alive that led to the winning field goal, they ought to at least be consistent.

Yeah, the more I watched that play, the 49ers should have gotten the call. That was far beyond normal contact.

I was wondering if the refs no-called it because the all was so overthrown, but if the receiver wasn't being blatantly held it might've been catchable It would've been a tough catch at best since it was overthrown a bit, but he would've had a shot.

[BigCatDaddy]

Was it really catchable though?

No doubt it was.

[Rausch]

Completely disagree that this was a well called game.

So do I.

I do believe it was called as expected...

[The Franchise]

Completely disagree that this was a well called game.

There were horrible calls all over the place.

[ct]

they should have been instructed to hold. you don't reset the clock for that penalty, so if SF accepts any holding penalty, they gain literally nothing and lose seconds off the clock. smart hold, very very smart.

[MagicHef]

Herm said on the radio this morning that once Crabtree ran into and iniated the contact with Williams that there was no way a flag was coming out.

Did Crabtree really initiate contact? Watching the replay, it looks like he touches the DB at almost the exact same time that the DB grabs him.

[BigRedChief]

Beyonce has big nipples.welllll she does have a set of big knockers.

[jspchief]

Completely disagree that this was a well called game.Should probably be more clear, I like a lot of the no-calls. The players decided the game, not the refs.

[KChiefer]

Did Crabtree really initiate contact? Watching the replay, it looks like he touches the DB at almost the exact same time that the DB grabs him.

Well, the jam started within 5 yds and I thought all grasping stopped by the time they hit the end zone. However, the DB still had his arms extended around the WR impede his progress while Crabtree was pushing off of the DB's helmet trying to get free.

I want to bitch about it kinda b/c I was pulling for the 49ers, but as has been said, drawing of a fade route with the game on the line is an awful idea. That said, BAL went blitz(yes?) and that's a good way to beat that. Same goes for the play earlier in the game when Kap threw a fade to Moss. BAL sells out, but Moss ran a slant which Kap couldn't hit b/c Reed was in the way. I was wondering if Moss just had a bad read and ran the wrong route.

[PhillyChiefFan]

Didn't matter AT ALL. A holding call would have resulted in a safety. Hell, John could have told his players to tackle all of the 49ers players and it wouldn't have changed anything. Really smart players probably held as much as they could that play.

Yea at that point, it was about taking as many seconds off the clock as possible. Penalties be damned.

[Nzoner]

That safety resulted in a lot of quarter pots and square number holders going from elation to :mad:

I was one of them. :(

[Barret]

I think Chris Carter said something on Mike and Mike about the last play.

Said something about how the Cornerback had inside coverage and Crabtree ran the wrong route. Instead of stutter stepping to the left like he was going to slant and then accelerating to the pylon where the ball should have been, Crabtree ran right into the defender and got caught up with him.

In those circumstances the refs will let the two fight for the ball and not throw a flag. But if he didn't initiate the contact and ran the right route, he might have got the holding call or the PI call or been able to get the football for a TD.

I think I paraphrased what Chris Carter said. I could be off.

[houstonwhodat]

They weren't going to let the outcome of the Super Bowl be decided by a penalty.

[morphius]

I saw a 49ers lineman get away with an equivalent hold earlier in the quarter. As much as I like the idea of the refs letting the players play, the rules are there for a reason and need to be called when they happen. It seems there is always 1 team that does better at skirting the rules in these situations, I can think of at least 3 no-call PI calls that were not called against the Ravens, and the 1 time the throw a flag is when the WR tried to push off.

[ghak99]

I liked the way it was called, or not called in this case.

It was very noticeable though and I can definitely see were people could be unhappy. It's the fucking Superbowl, I want to see the players sort it out. Throw the flags to keep control of the game but, for the most part, let them play.

[memyselfI]

No doubt it was.

Sure he could have made a spectacular catch but he was not going to get both feet in bounds. The contact between both players was such that it could have been called either way which made it a non-call, IMO. Too many variables for it to have been considered a flagrant foul.

[scho63]

I felt the Ravens got a lot of latitude from the refs-far more than the 49er's and substantially more than they would have in the regular season.

[BigCatDaddy]

Sure he could have made a spectacular catch but he was not going to get both feet in bounds. The contact between both players was such that it could have been called either way which made it a non-call, IMO. Too many variables for it to have been considered a flagrant foul.

I agree that with the way the game went you don't throw a flag there, but that's a catchable ball. It would be a great catch but catchable none the less.

[Carlota69]

That safety resulted in a lot of quarter pots and square number holders going from elation to :mad:

I was one of them. :(

I lost a huge bet with that fucking safety. I was soooooooo pissed!!!!! I wanted to throw stuff. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[BigCatDaddy]

I lost a huge bet with that ****ing safety. I was soooooooo pissed!!!!! I wanted to throw stuff. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

It cost me $100 which was no big deal, but it cost some other dude 1K in our pool. That might be a little tougher to swallow.

[memyselfI]

I agree that with the way the game went you don't throw a flag there, but that's a catchable ball. It would be a great catch but catchable none the less.

It was probably catchable but in bounds is another question. I'm sure there is someone skilled at video editing and math who is working on this question as we speak.

Not to mention, he makes a great catch and manages to keep his feet in bounds, does he keep possession or drop the ball when he lands arms first on the ball? The what ifs could go on forever. I prefer a non-call to a botched call ANY DAY!

[BigCatDaddy]

It was probably catchable but in bounds is another question. I'm sure there is someone skilled at video editing and math who is working on this question as we speak.

Not to mention, he makes a great catch and manages to keep his feet in bounds, does he keep possession or drop the ball when he lands arms first on the ball? The what ifs could go on forever. I prefer a non-call to a botched call ANY DAY!

I'll have to watch it again, but I thought it hit about 1 yard out of bounds which is catchable without a doubt.

[houstonwhodat]

No penalty

[Dartgod]

That safety resulted in a lot of quarter pots and square number holders going from elation to :mad:

I was one of them. :(

Yep, it cost me a $50 pot. I won the 2nd quarter pot so it lessens the sting some. But as always, $100 > $50

[GloryDayz]

I was more gassed by the Baltimore player taking a swing at the ref after the melee in the first half, no flag and no ejection.

This will be talked about for a long time. Not that it matters, each game has its own storyline, but somebody will pull this up and say that precedent has been set... And the NFL will laugh... But it's actually a good point that will be forgotten...

[Lex Luthor]

Yeah, the more I watched that play, the 49ers should have gotten the call. That was far beyond normal contact.

I was wondering if the refs no-called it because the all was so overthrown, but if the receiver wasn't being blatantly held it might've been catchable It would've been a tough catch at best since it was overthrown a bit, but he would've had a shot.
I think that since it was a fade pattern and the ball was just lobbed up there, Crabtree would have made the play if he hadn't been held.

If I were a 49er fan, I'd be livid over that, the crappy pass interference AGAINST the 49ers on the drive right before that kept that drive alive, and the non-call on the 2-point conversion where Ed Reed arrived in the backfield at the same time as the snap.