Joeckel vs. Alberts

[FRCDFED]

I know I probably misspelled his name but I want to get everyones true opinion of Joeckel. We want to sign Alberts but I believe most on here are in agreement that he isn't worth top 5 money. At the moment we don't know his demands.

Ever since Alberts was drafted we have debated on here whether or not he should be playing T or G. Mostly because he was a G in college. Most on here would agree that he is a pretty solid LT just not elite.

With that being said.........how does everyone really feel about potentially having a prototipical LT in Joeckel? Put the whole QB situation aside for a minute and just think of the OL.

If we came out of the draft with Joeckel and potentially Barkley if we traded back up or he fell for some reason then wouldn't that be a great start?

[mcaj22]

lol

[-King-]

I know I probably misspelled his name but I want to get everyones true opinion of Joeckel. We want to sign Alberts but I believe most on here are in agreement that he isn't worth top 5 money. At the moment we don't know his demands.

Ever since Alberts was drafted we have debated on here whether or not he should be playing T or G. Mostly because he was a G in college. Most on here would agree that he is a pretty solid LT just not elite.

With that being said.........how does everyone really feel about potentially having a prototipical LT in Joeckel? Put the whole QB situation aside for a minute and just think of the OL.

If we came out of the draft with Joeckel and potentially Barkley if we traded back up or he fell for some reason then wouldn't that be a great start?
:facepalm:

[KCrockaholic]

What the fuck is this.

[BossChief]

Funny that you spelled Joeckel right....but why do some of you add an s to Albert?

[The Franchise]

Fuck you.

[silver5liter]

Pay albert top 5 money. Its just the way contracts are going with free agents anymore. The move to guard thing is annoying. "Prototypical LT" Joeckel and "out of position" Albert's Measurements match up pretty even.

Height:
Albert : 6'7" Joeckel: 6'6"
Weight:
Albert: 315 Joeckel: 306
Arm length:
Albert: 33 7/8" Joeckel: 34 1/4"

[Deberg_1990]

We need more joeckel threads around here

[BossChief]

Here's the show stopper to this conversation and I'm gonna keep bringing it up till this topic dies a gruesome death...

Lets say Joeckel is a guy that just finished his rookie season and had a good year, and isn't just a guy coming out of college?

Would you be willing to trade Brandon Albert AND the first overall pick for Luke Joeckel?

If you answer yes, please find a tall building ad place a thumbtack at the base of it and then climb to the top.

Once there, try to imagine where the thumb tack is and jump, with the intent of hitting that thumbtack with your nose.

Good luck.

[tk13]

I would not trade Joeckel for Trev Alberts. Sorry.

[NJChiefsFan]

I love how you worried about misspelling a guy's name from college and meanwhile misspelled the actual Chief wrong without even a concern that you might have.

[MotherfuckerJones]

Alberts SMFH

[Sorter]

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/django-gifs-5.gif


But seriously, go fuck yourself TS

[candyman]

Do you know how I know you arent very football bright?

[Titty Meat]

Isn't Alberts a grocery store in Iowa?

[Deberg_1990]

I would not trade Joeckel for Trev Alberts. Sorry.

I might for Marv Albert though.

[BossChief]

Albertsons is a grocery store in the west.

[FRCDFED]

I love how you worried about misspelling a guy's name from college and meanwhile misspelled the actual Chief wrong without even a concern that you might have.
Try not to act like a smartass for a couple of min. I could really care less if I misspelled anyones name.

That good information regarding the size comparisons. I didn't realize that Joeckel and Albert were that close; however, the common belief from what I've read is that Joeckel has room to put on more weight.

I am not interested in losing Albert. I want to see the team move forward and not sideways by replacing Albert with Joeckel. It's a simple question of does Joeckel have the potential to end all of the talk about having a true LT.

[-King-]

Try not to act like a smartass for a couple of min. I could really care less if I misspelled anyones name.

That good information regarding the size comparisons. I didn't realize that Joeckel and Albert were that close; however, the common belief from what I've read is that Joeckel has room to put on more weight.

I am not interested in losing Albert. I want to see the team move forward and not sideways by replacing Albert with Joeckel. It's a simple question of does Joeckel have the potential to end all of the talk about having a true LT.

Wtf? Have you read ANY threads the past fucking 3 months regarding the draft?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

yes it is, Boss. Oh, and obligatory AIDS-tree to the OP.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Sorter]

Try not to act like a smartass for a couple of min. I could really care less if I misspelled anyones name.

That good information regarding the size comparisons. I didn't realize that Joeckel and Albert were that close; however, the common belief from what I've read is that Joeckel has room to put on more weight.

I am not interested in losing Albert. I want to see the team move forward and not sideways by replacing Albert with Joeckel. It's a simple question of does Joeckel have the potential to end all of the talk about having a true LT.

True left tackles get you absolutely fucking nothing.

Nothing.

[FRCDFED]

Wtf? Have you read ANY threads the past ****ing 3 months regarding the draft?Yeah and most of them consist of people bitching about drafting a QB and not a LT. Try to keep up. Just focus on the LT position itself. If that is something you are not capable of then my feelings aren't hurt if you choose to spend your time in another thread.

[silver5liter]

Try not to act like a smartass for a couple of min. I could really care less if I misspelled anyones name.

That good information regarding the size comparisons. I didn't realize that Joeckel and Albert were that close; however, the common belief from what I've read is that Joeckel has room to put on more weight.

I am not interested in losing Albert. I want to see the team move forward and not sideways by replacing Albert with Joeckel. It's a simple question of does Joeckel have the potential to end all of the talk about having a true LT.
That was alberts weight at the combine. I have no idea of his weight now.

[FRCDFED]

[/B]

True left tackles get you absolutely ****ing nothing.

Nothing. Completely agree. Has Albert reached his full potential? Would we actually realize an improvement on the OL if we are unable to resign him and take another in the draft? I don't think this has been discussed.

[mcaj22]

Joeckel will not be Jonathan Odgen
Joeckel will not be Willie Roaf

so, no, he will not be the end all LT.

there, your question was easily answered

[FRCDFED]

Joeckel will not be Jonathan Odgen
Joeckel will not be Willie Roaf

so, no, he will not be the end all LT.

there, your question was easily answered
Lol. Not so fast. I think we are all in agreement that Albert isn't Ogden or Roaf either. So why is everyone on here so against possibly of replacing him. Not necessarily with the first pick.

We have a losing culture on this team and need to change it. Albert has been a part of that culture since he has been on the team.

[silver5liter]

Completely agree. Has Albert reached his full potential? Would we actually realize an improvement on the OL if we are unable to resign him and take another in the draft? I don't think this has been discussed.

Albert is just been getting better every year. If Joeckel is better, which I doubt, the improvement would be very marginal.

[silver5liter]

Lol. Not so fast. I think we are all in agreement that Albert isn't Ogden or Roaf either. So why is everyone on here so against possibly of replacing him. Not necessarily with the first pick.

We have a losing culture on this team and need to change it. Albert has been a part of that culture since he has been on the team.

He only allowed one freaking sack last year. Give me a break. Dont fix whats not broken, especially with the first overall pick in a draft..

Yes, the losing culture is brought on by the LT. Not the shit quarterback we have.

[-King-]

Lol. Not so fast. I think we are all in agreement that Albert isn't Ogden or Roaf either. So why is everyone on here so against possibly of replacing him. Not necessarily with the first pick.

We have a losing culture on this team and need to change it. Albert has been a part of that culture since he has been on the team.

So has Jamaal Charles. Can we replace him please?

[RealSNR]

Dear Mods:

Please change OP author's name to FRCDFEDS. Thank you.

Love,
SNR

[Sorter]

Completely agree. Has Albert reached his full potential? Would we actually realize an improvement on the OL if we are unable to resign him and take another in the draft? I don't think this has been discussed.

I'd rather start Stephenson, Allen and Geno than go into next season with Luke Joeckel.

[mcaj22]

Lol. Not so fast. I think we are all in agreement that Albert isn't Ogden or Roaf either. So why is everyone on here so against possibly of replacing him. Not necessarily with the first pick.

We have a losing culture on this team and need to change it. Albert has been a part of that culture since he has been on the team.

you were essentially asking the prospect hype of Joeckel coming out as an LT

he is not the same kind of player as Roaf, or Odgen or Orlando Pace

or even dare I say Jake Long

hes not even close to any of them. And probably wont be. Hes just going to be a good player from a weak class. Nothing more nothing less. But to ask if hes going to be a Hall of Fame LT. Id bet the favorite odds in NO. He would essentially have to play at a Pro Bowl and All Pro level from season 1 all the way til season 10+ beyond to come close, and that's very hard to do today. He would have a lot of current good LTs to leapfrog in a quick amount of time, and theres no way hes doing that.

[chiefscafan]

Albert is a known commodity how do we know joekle isn't a bust we don't.

[RealSNR]

Try not to act like a smartass for a couple of min. I could really care less if I misspelled anyones name.

That good information regarding the size comparisons. I didn't realize that Joeckel and Albert were that close; however, the common belief from what I've read is that Joeckel has room to put on more weight.

I am not interested in losing Albert. I want to see the team move forward and not sideways by replacing Albert with Joeckel. It's a simple question of does Joeckel have the potential to end all of the talk about having a true LT.
You COULD care less if you spell someone's name incorrectly? Meaning you care at least a little bit that you're a fucking dumbass who doesn't know who the LT for the Chiefs has been since 2008?

I mean, good. You SHOULD care about problems as serious as that.

[RealSNR]

Jamaal Charless
Dwayne Bowes
Matt Cassels

It's a shame that Kendall Gammons still doesn't play for the Chiefs. I'll bet he and Alberts have a lot in common

[FRCDFED]

He only allowed one freaking sack last year. Give me a break. Dont fix whats not broken, especially with the first overall pick in a draft..

Yes, the losing culture is brought on by the LT. Not the shit quarterback we have.
I don't know how much we can rely on ANY stats related to QB play last year. The QB situation is just embarrassing. However, since those are the way we track success we have to give Albert credit. Only allowing one sack is really impressive.

[FRCDFED]

Albert is a known commodity how do we know joekle isn't a bust we don't. Agreed. I'm not advocating getting rid of Albert. Just trying get everyones thoughts on the LT position since Albert is a FA. We don't know if he will be resigned or not. If not, how easy would it be to replace him with equal talent or even someone with more upside? Would it take a first round pick? Did we just get lucky with him?

[FRCDFED]

You COULD care less if you spell someone's name incorrectly? Meaning you care at least a little bit that you're a ****ing dumbass who doesn't know who the LT for the Chiefs has been since 2008?

I mean, good. You SHOULD care about problems as serious as that. Dude, your still stuck on a fucking misspelled word and not adding anything to the discussion. Typical SNR.

[patteeu]

Here's the show stopper to this conversation and I'm gonna keep bringing it up till this topic dies a gruesome death...

Lets say Joeckel is a guy that just finished his rookie season and had a good year, and isn't just a guy coming out of college?

Would you be willing to trade Brandon Albert AND the first overall pick for Luke Joeckel?

If you answer yes, please find a tall building ad place a thumbtack at the base of it and then climb to the top.

Once there, try to imagine where the thumb tack is and jump, with the intent of hitting that thumbtack with your nose.

Good luck.

Why trade him? The Chiefs have a ton of money to spend. Sign Albert for LT money and draft Joeckel for cheap rookie money and play them wherever you want to. Eventually, if not initially, move Albert and let Joeckel take over at LT. A few years down the road, either force Albert to take a pay cut or release him because you've got someone cheaper ready to take his spot. If all goes according to plan, then it will be time to resign Joeckel to his LT 2nd contract.

FTR, I'm not advocating this, but it wouldn't bother me if something like this happened as long as QB was also addressed in some fashion. It would be infinitely better than intentionally letting Albert walk and replacing him with Joeckel.

[silver5liter]

Why trade him? Sign Albert for LT money and draft Joeckel for cheap rookie money and play them wherever you want to. Eventually, if not initially, move Albert and let Joeckel take over at LT. A few years down the road, either force Albert to take a pay cut or release him because you've got someone cheaper ready to take his spot. If all goes according to plan, then it will be time to resign Joeckel to his LT 2nd contract.

This is the stupidest idea I have heard.

[RealSNR]

Dude, your still stuck on a fucking misspelled word and not adding anything to the discussion. Typical SNR.

This wasn't a typo, dude. You did it like 6 or 7 times. You legitimately did not know the name of our LT.

It's not even a Branden vs. Brandon thing. You flat out got his name wrong. How long have you not known his name?

[KCrockaholic]

Why trade him? The Chiefs have a ton of money to spend. Sign Albert for LT money and draft Joeckel for cheap rookie money and play them wherever you want to. Eventually, if not initially, move Albert and let Joeckel take over at LT. A few years down the road, either force Albert to take a pay cut or release him because you've got someone cheaper ready to take his spot. If all goes according to plan, then it will be time to resign Joeckel to his LT 2nd contract.

FTR, I'm not advocating this, but it wouldn't bother me if something like this happened as long as QB was also addressed in some fashion. It would be infinitely better than intentionally letting Albert walk and replacing him with Joeckel.

Holy fucking shit.

[silver5liter]

Holy ****ing shit.

.

[-King-]

Why trade him? The Chiefs have a ton of money to spend. Sign Albert for LT money and draft Joeckel for cheap rookie money and play them wherever you want to. Eventually, if not initially, move Albert and let Joeckel take over at LT. A few years down the road, either force Albert to take a pay cut or release him because you've got someone cheaper ready to take his spot. If all goes according to plan, then it will be time to resign Joeckel to his LT 2nd contract.

FTR, I'm not advocating this, but it wouldn't bother me if something like this happened as long as QB was also addressed in some fashion. It would be infinitely better than intentionally letting Albert walk and replacing him with Joeckel.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=30


Just go back...

[patteeu]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=30


Just go back...

Clever and very original. You might earn a pat on the head for that.

[-King-]

Clever and very original. You might earn a pat on the head for that.

You earn cyanide for that idea you had.

[patteeu]

This is the stupidest idea I have heard.

I don't believe you.

[patteeu]

You earn cyanide for that idea you had.

Why are you in this thread if you can't leave the QB situation aside for a minute? I bet there's a QB circle jerk in one or two of the other threads around here that would let you in.

[FRCDFED]

Why are you in this thread if you can't leave the QB situation aside for a minute? I bet there's a QB circle jerk in one or two of the other threads around here that would let you in.This.

[Tribal Warfare]

you were essentially asking the prospect hype of Joeckel coming out as an LT

he is not the same kind of player as Roaf, Boselli, or Odgen or Orlando Pace

or even dare I say Jake Long

hes not even close to any of them. And probably wont be. Hes just going to be a good player from a weak class. Nothing more nothing less. But to ask if hes going to be a Hall of Fame LT. Id bet the favorite odds in NO. He would essentially have to play at a Pro Bowl and All Pro level from season 1 all the way til season 10+ beyond to come close, and that's very hard to do today. He would have a lot of current good LTs to leapfrog in a quick amount of time, and theres no way hes doing that.

just a slight interjection

[O.city]

To keep Albert on, you either have to pay him LT money, or franchise him. If you franchise him and draft Joeckel, thats a shitload of money you have at LG.


With the many other holes we need to fill, doing that financially doesn't make much sense.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

mmmmm....true fan tackle talk.....tastes like shitloaf! Lil Chiefy; is that you son?
Posted via Mobile Device

[patteeu]

To keep Albert on, you either have to pay him LT money, or franchise him. If you franchise him and draft Joeckel, thats a shitload of money you have at LG.


With the many other holes we need to fill, doing that financially doesn't make much sense.

I would hope we wouldn't have to franchise him, but either way, we're way under the cap, are we not? I'm not sure why it wouldn't make sense since you'd still only be paying one player legit LT money.

[silver5liter]

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DRAFT A BACK UP LT WITH THE FIRST OVER ALL PICK. WHAT GOOD DOES THAT DO? HOW MUCH BETTER ARE WE WITH LUKE JOECKEL?

There, all in caps.

[BossChief]

Why trade him? The Chiefs have a ton of money to spend. Sign Albert for LT money and draft Joeckel for cheap rookie money and play them wherever you want to. Eventually, if not initially, move Albert and let Joeckel take over at LT. A few years down the road, either force Albert to take a pay cut or release him because you've got someone cheaper ready to take his spot. If all goes according to plan, then it will be time to resign Joeckel to his LT 2nd contract.

FTR, I'm not advocating this, but it wouldn't bother me if something like this happened as long as QB was also addressed in some fashion. It would be infinitely better than intentionally letting Albert walk and replacing him with Joeckel.

Our offensive line is 100% SET at Left tackle (Albert only gave up one sack in 11 starts), right guard (Asamoah is a ****ing STUD)and right tackle (Winston is a top five right tackle)...one of the two other spots is owned by Rodney Hudson...an all american left guard at fsu that has center skills...that leaves ONE LINE POSITION that we don't have a very good, young player at.

Left guard or center...to me, I'd like to see them move Hudson back to left guard and for us to draft a good center to finish the OL, but in no way shape or form should that be with the top pick.

We have NOBODY at quarterback and the difference between Geno and what we could get in the second round is significant.

If we come out of our top two picks with Geno and Barrett Jones, ill be a happy camper.

[FRCDFED]

To keep Albert on, you either have to pay him LT money, or franchise him. If you franchise him and draft Joeckel, thats a shitload of money you have at LG.


With the many other holes we need to fill, doing that financially doesn't make much sense. Keeping Albert and drafting Joeckel hasn't crossed my mind. Even if we don't keep Albert and don't draft Joeckel then how difficult would it be to replace Albert?

[O.city]

I would hope we wouldn't have to franchise him, but either way, we're way under the cap, are we not? I'm not sure why it wouldn't make sense since you'd still only be paying one player legit LT money.

He's not going to sign here to play LG, so you have to franchise him. IIRC, you have to designate what you are franchising position wise. If you do it at guard, he's not signing it and would likely sit out.


So he's gone after one year, then you're looking for a guard too.


Yeah, if you want to keep him at guard, you have to franchise him. Otherwise, he's just going to go somewhere else to play LT, which he should, cause he's shown to be a damn good LT in the NFL. He's never played guard in the NFL so .....

[Sorter]

Keeping Albert and drafting Joeckel hasn't crossed my mind. Even if we don't keep Albert and don't draft Joeckel then how difficult would it be to replace Albert?

Well, there happens to be a 3rd round pick on our roster who played pretty well in his appearances last year.

[FRCDFED]

Our offensive line is 100% SET at Left tackle (Albert only gave up one sack in 11 starts), right guard (Asamoah is a ****ing STUD)and right tackle (Winston is a top five right tackle)...one of the two other spots is owned by Rodney Hudson...an all american left guard at fsu that has center skills...that leaves ONE LINE POSITION that we don't have a very good, young player at.

Left guard or center...to me, I'd like to see them move Hudson back to left guard and for us to draft a good center to finish the OL, but in no way shape or form should that be with the top pick.

We have NOBODY at quarterback and the difference between Geno and what we could get in the second round is significant.

If we come out of our top two picks with Geno and Barrett Jones, ill be a happy camper. Using your scenerio we assume that we resign or franchise Albert. Then how high would Barrett Jones be drafted and is he the best C prospect?

[-King-]

Why are you in this thread if you can't leave the QB situation aside for a minute? I bet there's a QB circle jerk in one or two of the other threads around here that would let you in.

Please quote any post in this thread in which I have mentioned the QB situation.

Thanks.

[O.city]

Using your scenerio we assume that we resign or franchise Albert. Then how high would Barrett Jones be drafted and is he the best C prospect?

You can probably get the best C prospect in the 3 or 4th round. Jones has a lis franc injury so he'll probably drop.

[patteeu]

Our offensive line is 100% SET at Left tackle (Albert only gave up one sack in 11 starts), right guard (Asamoah is a ****ing STUD)and right tackle (Winston is a top five right tackle)...one of the two other spots is owned by Rodney Hudson...an all american left guard at fsu that has center skills...that leaves ONE LINE POSITION that we don't have a very good, young player at.

Left guard or center...to me, I'd like to see them move Hudson back to left guard and for us to draft a good center to finish the OL, but in no way shape or form should that be with the top pick.

We have NOBODY at quarterback and the difference between Geno and what we could get in the second round is significant.

If we come out of our top two picks with Geno and Barrett Jones, ill be a happy camper.

That would be a pretty solid outcome, IMO.

If they drafted Joeckel according to my theory (of keeping both), it would be with the long term (~ a decade or so) in mind. I'm not as sure about Asamoah as you are and I think the jury is still out on Allen. Hopefully at least one of them is actually a long term stud and Hudson comes back strong either at G or C.

[patteeu]

You can probably get the best C prospect in the 3 or 4th round. Jones has a lis franc injury so he'll probably drop.

Yikes

[O.city]

That would be a pretty solid outcome, IMO.

If they drafted Joeckel according to my theory (of keeping both), it would be with the long term (~ a decade or so) in mind. I'm not as sure about Asamoah as you are and I think the jury is still out on Allen. Hopefully at least one of them is actually a long term stud and Hudson comes back strong either at G or C.

There's just no way you can keep both. Financially and in terms of Albert signing, it won't work.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

and here i thought "the case for nick foles" was the smelliest pile of shit to ever grace this board...
Posted via Mobile Device

[FRCDFED]

That would be a pretty solid outcome, IMO.

If they drafted Joeckel according to my theory (of keeping both), it would be with the long term (~ a decade or so) in mind. I'm not as sure about Asamoah as you are and I think the jury is still out on Allen. Hopefully at least one of them is actually a long term stud and Hudson comes back strong either at G or C.
What are the chances Jones makes it to the 3rd round? IMO we have to address the CB situation in round 2.

[patteeu]

There's just no way you can keep both. Financially and in terms of Albert signing, it won't work.

Why won't it work? Like I said, you'd only be paying one player legit LT money and the Chiefs have plenty of room under the cap. Teams with less cap room do that all the time.

[BossChief]

Also, on top of all the spots I just mentioned, we also just drafted two college offensive tackles (Don Stephenson and Jeff Allen) with the intent of moving Allen to guard.

That's a total, up to date investment of

1first rounder - Albert (that true fans want to jettison to take a very similar player with the top,pick with Joeckel)
2 2nd rounders (Rodney Hudson and Jeff Allen)
2 3rd rounders (Jon Asamoah and Don Stevenson)
A big free agent contract to Eric Winston

If we add the top overall pick to that list and jettison one of our best players that already mans the position, we are retarded.

Add a center, or hope Allen pans out at guard and we are set besides a couple late round picks for depth.

It's no mistake that two gms that just got fired would pass on a quarterback for a linemen.

[-King-]

Why won't it work? Like I said, you'd only be paying one player legit LT money and the Chiefs have plenty of room under the cap. Teams with less cap room do that all the time.

Name one team.

[O.city]

Why won't it work? Like I said, you'd only be paying one player legit LT money and the Chiefs have plenty of room under the cap. Teams with less cap room do that all the time.

No they don't. Sorry, but it's just not an idea that will work.


You have to franchise Albert. He's not going to sign on then be moved to guard. If you franchise him, he can sit out.

He doesnt' want to play guard and he probably won't.

[FRCDFED]

and here i thought "the case for nick foles" was the smelliest pile of shit to ever grace this board...
Posted via Mobile Device Feeling left out? Need attention?

[FRCDFED]

Also, on top of all the spots I just mentioned, we also just drafted two college offensive tackles (Don Stephenson and Jeff Allen) with the intent of moving Allen to guard.

That's a total, up to date investment of

1first rounder - Albert (that true fans want to jettison to take a very similar player with the top,pick with Joeckel)
2 2nd rounders (Rodney Hudson and Jeff Allen)
2 3rd rounders (Jon Asamoah and Don Stevenson)
A big free agent contract to Eric Winston

If we add the top overall pick to that list and jettison one of our best players that already mans the position, we are retarded.

Add a center, or hope Allen pans out at guard and we are set besides a couple late round picks for depth.

It's no mistake that two gms that just got fired would pass on a quarterback for a linemen.
Good argument. However, we are still faced with two realities:

1. Albert hasn't been resigned yet.

2. "Experts" (lol) think that Joeckel is considered one of the best overall players.

So if we lose him either to unusual demands or refusal to use the tag then we will need another OL in this draft.

[BossChief]

I didn't know he had lisfranc.

Even knowing that, I'd take him in the third....have him immediately have the surgery and sart him off on pup with intentions for him to take over at center or guard my the end of his first season.

[BossChief]

Good argument. However, we are still faced with two realities:

1. Albert hasn't been resigned yet.

2. "Experts" (lol) think that Joeckel is considered one of the best overall players.

So if we lose him either to unusual demands or refusal to use the tag then we will need another OL in this draft.

Not counting Jackson or Cassel, the Chiefs are around 40 million under the cap.

They need to reward guys like Albert and Bowe...not create more holes in this roster.

[BossChief]

Taking Joeckel is like trading Albert AND the first overall pick for him.

That's just ridiculous to even fathom.

[FRCDFED]

Taking Joeckel is like trading Albert AND the first overall pick for him.

That's just ridiculous to even fathom. lol....I think we are past this part of the discussion. Now we are talking about how to "fix" the line if Albert isn't retained. It seems that taking a C and moving a couple of players currently on the roster would be the way to go and still use our first pick on the BPA.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

new game: someone come up with the dumbest hypothetical possible. Winner creates accompanying thread, and we vote it in to the hall at the end of the year.
Posted via Mobile Device

[FRCDFED]

new game: someone come up with the dumbest hypothetical possible. Winner creates accompanying thread, and we vote it in to the hall at the end of the year.
Posted via Mobile DeviceHere's a hypothetical: You actually have something to add to a discussion.

It's not far fetched to think a player that is a FA could/would not be retained and would need replaced.

[Sorter]

I didn't know he had lisfranc.

Even knowing that, I'd take him in the third....have him immediately have the surgery and sart him off on pup with intentions for him to take over at center or guard my the end of his first season.

He's had surgery already.

[BossChief]

I think even with the lisfranc, he will be drafted before our pick in the third. The dude is a stud guard or center and can play multiple line positions at a high level. I'd love to have him playing center for us and move Hudson back to guard.

[FRCDFED]

He's had surgery already.I like his fire. Isn't he the one that pushed the QB during the bowl game when the QB was mouthing him because he was trying to change his calls at the line?

[Sorter]

I like his fire. Isn't he the one that pushed the QB during the bowl game when the QB was mouthing him because he was trying to change his calls at the line?

I don't think it was over changing calls IIRC.

[HolyHat]

Chase Daniels

[Imon Yourside]

I think it's a Jokel we haven't signed Albert as well.

[patteeu]

Name one team.

OK, Cleveland pays Joe Thomas big LT money.

[-King-]

OK, Cleveland pays Joe Thomas big LT money.

Yeah? And?

[patteeu]

No they don't. Sorry, but it's just not an idea that will work.


You have to franchise Albert. He's not going to sign on then be moved to guard. If you franchise him, he can sit out.

He doesnt' want to play guard and he probably won't.

He doesn't get paid if he sits out. Very few players are willing to pass up $10+ million.

And yes they do. Several of them do. Are you under the impression that LTs never get paid?

[patteeu]

Yeah? And?

And what?

[O.city]

He doesn't get paid if he sits out. Very few players are willing to pass up $10+ million.

And yes they do. Several of them do. Are you under the impression that LTs never get paid?

What team pays a guys LT money then moves him to G and drafts another LT?


Of course teams pay LTs big money. But they stay at LT.

[O.city]

He doesn't get paid if he sits out. Very few players are willing to pass up $10+ million.

And yes they do. Several of them do. Are you under the impression that LTs never get paid?

And IIRC, if you franchise him at LT, he has to play LT otherwise he would be classified as a G.

[patteeu]

What team pays a guys LT money then moves him to G and drafts another LT?


Of course teams pay LTs big money. But they stay at LT.

I didn't say other teams do that. You said the Chiefs couldn't afford to pay Albert and draft Joeckel. That's incorrect because they'd only be paying one player big LT money. Lots of teams pay one player big LT money. Of course they can afford it.

[O.city]

So let me get this right.

You want to pay Albert LT money, draft Joeckel, then move Albert to guard?

[-King-]

And what?

What the hell does that have to do with anything you've said? Did they draft another LT after re-signing Joe Thomas like you want the Chiefs to do after re-signing Albert?

[patteeu]

And IIRC, if you franchise him at LT, he has to play LT otherwise he would be classified as a G.

No.

[-King-]

I didn't say other teams do that. You said the Chiefs couldn't afford to pay Albert and draft Joeckel. That's incorrect because they'd only be paying one player big LT money. Lots of teams pay one player big LT money. Of course they can afford it.

I don't understand what you're even arguing here. Teams pay their best players. Well.. duh. If a team has a top LT, then yes they'll pay him bit LT money. What's your point exactly?

Has any team ever signed a player to a big time contract and then drafted his replacement that same offseason? No.

[O.city]

I didn't say other teams do that. You said the Chiefs couldn't afford to pay Albert and draft Joeckel. That's incorrect because they'd only be paying one player big LT money. Lots of teams pay one player big LT money. Of course they can afford it.

Because you would essentially be paying your RG, LT money. It would make more sense to keep Albert at LT and draft Warmack, who's actually a guard.


Albert isn't a guard. He's a LT.

[-King-]

LMAO So now we're paying Albert LT money to play guard. This is just hilarious now.

[patteeu]

So let me get this right.

You want to pay Albert LT money, draft Joeckel, then move Albert to guard?

This isn't about what I want. This is a hypothetical thread that is about whether or not taking Joeckel would make any sense, leaving the QB situation aside for the purposes of the discussion.

I agree with Boss that it seems kind of nonsensical to let Albert go and then use the 1st on Joeckel. It makes more sense to keep Albert and draft Joeckel. Eventually, Joeckel would end up at LT (assuming he surpasses Albert). That doesn't necessarily have to happen on day one, but if it did, that would be fine too. Play both wherever it makes the most sense to play them.

[patteeu]

LMAO So now we're paying Albert LT money to play guard. This is just hilarious now.

What difference does it make? Are you suggesting that we'd be better off letting Albert go and drafting Joeckel? Now you're back in the situation where you've traded Albert and a 1st overall pick for Joeckel. Brilliant.

[O.city]

No.

When you franchsie someone, you pay them the average of the top 5 players at their position. You would classify Albert as a LT or a G.


If you classify him at LT and play him at G, you are severly over paying for a G. Especially a guy who has never played G in the NFL.

[-King-]

I agree with Boss that it seems kind of nonsensical to let Albert go and then use the 1st on Joeckel. It makes more sense to keep Albert and draft Joeckel. Eventually, Joeckel would end up at LT (assuming he surpasses Albert). That doesn't necessarily have to happen on day one, but if it did, that would be fine too. Play both wherever it makes the most sense to play them.

No it doesn't. Thats why no team in NFL history has ever done it.

[-King-]

What difference does it make? Are you suggesting that we'd be better off letting Albert go and drafting Joeckel? Now you're back in the situation where you've traded Albert and a 1st overall pick for Joeckel. Brilliant.

No, how about you just re-sign Albert and don't draft an LT in the first round.

[O.city]

This isn't about what I want. This is a hypothetical thread that is about whether or not taking Joeckel would make any sense, leaving the QB situation aside for the purposes of the discussion.

I agree with Boss that it seems kind of nonsensical to let Albert go and then use the 1st on Joeckel. It makes more sense to keep Albert and draft Joeckel. Eventually, Joeckel would end up at LT (assuming he surpasses Albert). That doesn't necessarily have to happen on day one, but if it did, that would be fine too. Play both wherever it makes the most sense to play them.

It makes no sense to draft Joeckel if you keep Albert. Then you are drafting for depth at 1, a position where you are supposed to get an immediate impact player.


Again, Albert won't sign to play guard.

[patteeu]

Because you would essentially be paying your RG, LT money. It would make more sense to keep Albert at LT and draft Warmack, who's actually a guard.


Albert isn't a guard. He's a LT.

:facepalm: Albert can play guard or tackle. It doesn't matter which positions are being paid as long as the total fits within your financial concept.

Keeping Albert at LT and drafting Warmack would be a similar alternative. Between the two options, you'd have to decide whether your team is better with an Albert/Warmack combo or a Joeckel/Albert combo. And the other advantage of taking Joeckel is that you'd have two solid options at LT if your starter gets injured.

[patteeu]

It makes no sense to draft Joeckel if you keep Albert. Then you are drafting for depth at 1, a position where you are supposed to get an immediate impact player.


Again, Albert won't sign to play guard.

The Chiefs should be trying to sign Albert well before the draft takes place. And no, you wouldn't be drafting for depth. Good lord, this isn't that complicated.

[-King-]

Sign Albert to a top 10 LT contract.... play him at guard.


Brilliant!

[-King-]

I think we should sign Bowe to a top 10 WR contract and play in in the slot.

[O.city]

:facepalm: Albert can play guard or tackle. It doesn't matter which positions are being paid as long as the total fits within your financial concept.

Keeping Albert at LT and drafting Warmack would be a similar alternative. Between the two options, you'd have to decide whether your team is better with an Albert/Warmack combo or a Joeckel/Albert combo. And the other advantage of taking Joeckel is that you'd have two solid options at LT if your starter gets injured.

When has Albert played guard in the NFL? We have no idea if he can or not.


You don't pay a G LT money, even if you have the cap space. Thats just not smart.

[Willie Lanier]

No, how about you just re-sign Albert and don't draft an LT in the first round.

Agreed

End of argument, Albert is your new John Alt, and definitely reliable, stupid argument, I really hope we draft Geno

[O.city]

The Chiefs should be trying to sign Albert well before the draft takes place. And no, you wouldn't be drafting for depth. Good lord, this isn't that complicated.

Maybe not depth, but you are essentially improving your LG spot with the first overall pick. It's not intelligent. At all.

[patteeu]

What the hell does that have to do with anything you've said? Did they draft another LT after re-signing Joe Thomas like you want the Chiefs to do after re-signing Albert?

You're not paying attention. What I said other teams do all the time is pay one player big LT money. It was in response to someone saying that the Chiefs couldn't afford to resign Albert and draft Joeckel. They could afford it just like Cleveland can afford to have one high priced offensive lineman and still field a full slate of OL.

[patteeu]

Maybe not depth, but you are essentially improving your LG spot with the first overall pick. It's not intelligent. At all.

You wouldn't do it unless you believed you were improving both LT and G. You'd be improving two positions with one pick.

[O.city]

You're not paying attention. What I said other teams do all the time is pay one player big LT money. It was in response to someone saying that the Chiefs couldn't afford to resign Albert and draft Joeckel. They could afford it just like Cleveland can afford to have one high priced offensive lineman and still field a full slate of OL.

Thats the problem. Albert isnt going to sign a contract and play LG.

[-King-]

You're not paying attention. What I said other teams do all the time is pay one player big LT money. It was in response to someone saying that the Chiefs couldn't afford to resign Albert and draft Joeckel. They could afford it just like Cleveland can afford to have one high priced offensive lineman and still field a full slate of OL.

No one has said that the Chiefs can't afford to pay Albert big LT money.

It would just be the stupidest decision in draft history if you re-signed a player to a big contract and then drafted his replacement that same offseason.

[O.city]

You wouldn't do it unless you believed you were improving both LT and G. You'd be improving two positions with one pick.

Yeah, and how many wins does that translate into? Probably not much, especially with our crater behind C.

[patteeu]

When has Albert played guard in the NFL? We have no idea if he can or not.

Please.

You don't pay a G LT money, even if you have the cap space. Thats just not smart.

Saying it's not smart doesn't make it not smart. What's not smart about it?

[-King-]

You wouldn't do it unless you believed you were improving both LT and G. You'd be improving two positions with one pick.

How are we improving the LT position? Albert is a top 10 LT. We don't even know if Joeckel can be a top 32 LT in the NFL.

[O.city]

It doesn't matter anyway, Joeckel isn't even the undisputed best LT in this class, much less to come out in a decade.

[RunKC]

You know, when I first found out we got the 1st pick in the draft, my instant reaction was "please God don't take a DL".

Now, after hearing all this bullshit about OT's and G's being the best players for our pick, I would much rather us draft Shariff Floyd or Sheldon Richardson than an OL, if those were the only two choices.

[patteeu]

Yeah, and how many wins does that translate into? Probably not much, especially with our crater behind C.

14. You simply can't resist turning everything back to a QB conversation can you?

[O.city]

Please.



Saying it's not smart doesn't make it not smart. What's not smart about it?

What team has paid a LG LT money? Ever? LG isn't viewed as a high impact position, therefor people don't pay big money for that position. There is a reason (right or wrong) why LT's make that much money.


Why do you think Albert can play LG?

[O.city]

14. You simply can't resist turning everything back to a QB conversation can you?

And you simply can't resist making stupid fucking claims like paying a LG LT money.

[patteeu]

How are we improving the LT position? Albert is a top 10 LT. We don't even know if Joeckel can be a top 32 LT in the NFL.

If Albert is a top 10 LT and Joeckel is a top 5 LT, you've improved your LT position, that's how.

[-King-]

If Albert is a top 10 LT and Joeckel is a top 5 LT, you've improved your LT position, that's how.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Ok, you're trolling. Got it.

[patteeu]

What team has paid a LG LT money? Ever? LG isn't viewed as a high impact position, therefor people don't pay big money for that position. There is a reason (right or wrong) why LT's make that much money.


Why do you think Albert can play LG?

I asked you a question. Do you have an answer that actually addresses it?

[O.city]

If Albert is a top 10 LT and Joeckel is a top 5 LT, you've improved your LT position, that's how.

Thats true, but in the grand scheme of winning football games, it wouldn't be a huge gap.


We then get into the difference in a top 10 LT and a top 5 LT. Honestly, I feel like the LT spot is a little overvalued at this point in time, but thats a different situation all together.

[O.city]

I asked you a question. Do you have an answer that actually addresses it?

Actually I did in a previous post.


LG isn't a high impact spot, you can get good play for much cheaper, which allows you to spend said money elsewhere.

[-King-]

Thats true

:spock::spock: How is it true? Joeckel could end up being just as good as Jason Smith in the league.

[O.city]

:spock::spock: How is it true? Joeckel could end up being just as good as Jason Smith in the league.

He didn't say Joeckel would be, he said if he was. So technically, it would be improving the positions.

I don't think it's much difference between a top 10 LT and a top 5 LT, in terms of wins and losses though.

[-King-]

We should draft a RB 1st overall and move Charles to Fullback. We'll have improved two positions.

[patteeu]

What team has paid a LG LT money? Ever? LG isn't viewed as a high impact position, therefor people don't pay big money for that position. There is a reason (right or wrong) why LT's make that much money.


Why do you think Albert can play LG?

BTW, both the Raiders and the Cardinals have done it. I'm sure there are others. Not that that makes any difference in this argument.

[-King-]

We should draft Jarvis Jones first overall and move Justin Houston to DE. We'll have improved two positions that way!

[-King-]

BTW, both the Raiders and the Cardinals have done it. I'm sure there are others. Not that that makes any difference in this argument.

They have? When?

[O.city]

BTW, both the Raiders and the Cardinals have done it. I'm sure there are others. Not that that makes any difference in this argument.

Well, IIRC, they did it because their LT wasn't good enough to play LT, so yeah, this is a different situation. We would be doing it because we found a better LT, which IMO, isn't necessary because Albert is very much above average at LT, so that first pick could be used to get a better player elsewhere.

[O.city]

I think he's referring to Gallery and I'm not sure about the Cardinals.

[patteeu]

Actually I did in a previous post.


LG isn't a high impact spot, you can get good play for much cheaper, which allows you to spend said money elsewhere.

The Chiefs have been plugging guys in as replacements for Will Shields and Brian Waters for a few years now and it's not clear to me that they've found anyone that would be as good as Albert is likely to be. I could be wrong about that, and if the Chiefs think they've got a better alternative at G for less than Albert would be making then they shouldn't sign/draft Albert/Joeckel. I think your theory has merit but I think in practice these low cost, high performance people don't just show up on your doorstep.

[patteeu]

I think he's referring to Gallery and I'm not sure about the Cardinals.

Leonard Davis

[NJChiefsFan]

The Chiefs have been plugging guys in as replacements for Will Shields and Brian Waters for a few years now and it's not clear to me that they've found anyone that would be as good as Albert is likely to be. I could be wrong about that, and if the Chiefs think they've got a better alternative at G for less than Albert would be making then they shouldn't sign/draft Albert/Joeckel. I think your theory has merit but I think in practice these low cost, high performance people don't just show up on your doorstep.

If you throw a crap load of money at your LT and LG you will need those types to show up at your doorstep for other positions.

[patteeu]

Well, IIRC, they did it because their LT wasn't good enough to play LT, so yeah, this is a different situation. We would be doing it because we found a better LT, which IMO, isn't necessary because Albert is very much above average at LT, so that first pick could be used to get a better player elsewhere.

I'm not against getting a better player elsewhere. I want you to read my first post in this thread again:

Why trade him? The Chiefs have a ton of money to spend. Sign Albert for LT money and draft Joeckel for cheap rookie money and play them wherever you want to. Eventually, if not initially, move Albert and let Joeckel take over at LT. A few years down the road, either force Albert to take a pay cut or release him because you've got someone cheaper ready to take his spot. If all goes according to plan, then it will be time to resign Joeckel to his LT 2nd contract.

FTR, I'm not advocating this, but it wouldn't bother me if something like this happened as long as QB was also addressed in some fashion. It would be infinitely better than intentionally letting Albert walk and replacing him with Joeckel.

That was in response to the argument that Kevin Keitzman has been making (and that BossChief made in this thread) that to draft Joeckel it means you have to be willing to trade Brandon Albert and the 1st pick overall for him. It doesn't and I explained why. That doesn't mean that the alternative I described is the absolute best course of action and it doesn't mean that I want it to happen. But some of the arguments against it are less than compelling.

[patteeu]

If you throw a crap load of money at your LT and LG you will need those types to show up at your doorstep for other positions.

You wouldn't be throwing a crap load of money at your LT and LG. You'd only be paying one player big LT money. The other guy would be getting good rookie money, but it's not big money in the overall scheme.

[Tribal Warfare]

Leonard Davis

He was drafted to be a LT and failed at it

[O.city]

The Chiefs have been plugging guys in as replacements for Will Shields and Brian Waters for a few years now and it's not clear to me that they've found anyone that would be as good as Albert is likely to be. I could be wrong about that, and if the Chiefs think they've got a better alternative at G for less than Albert would be making then they shouldn't sign/draft Albert/Joeckel. I think your theory has merit but I think in practice these low cost, high performance people don't just show up on your doorstep.

Well I don't think it would be worth using that top pick to improve those two spots when the outcome would be somewhat negligible.


Actually of the opinion that our best lg is Hudson who was actually better in college at g than Albert ever was. So in reality we should probably be lookig for a center.

While we do have cap space, you can't look just short term because we have it we have to spend it. I don't think a lg should eat up that much space so that other, more important positions can't be spent on in free agency etc.


So yes while joeckel and Albert might improve that side, it seems to me it would be a waste of money and a valuable pick when we already have an adequate lt and lg on the roster

[patteeu]

He was drafted to be a LT and failed at it

Yeah, I know. He was paid LT top dollar and played guard.

[O.city]

I'm not against getting a better player elsewhere. I want you to read my first post in this thread again:



That was in response to the argument that Kevin Keitzman has been making (and that BossChief made in this thread) that to draft Joeckel it means you have to be willing to trade Brandon Albert and the 1st pick overall for him. It doesn't and I explained why. That doesn't mean that the alternative I described is the absolute best course of action and it doesn't mean that I want it to happen. But some of the arguments against it are less than compelling.

Yeah I get that.


I'm just not sure the impact of a top 10 lt vs a top 5 lt is a huge difference so I say don't mess with it.

[O.city]

Actually iirc didnt Davis start at lg then go to lt?

[O.city]

Biggest problem we are overlooking is that I don't think Albert would ever sign on knowing he might play guard

[patteeu]

Well I don't think it would be worth using that top pick to improve those two spots when the outcome would be somewhat negligible.


Actually of the opinion that our best lg is Hudson who was actually better in college at g than Albert ever was. So in reality we should probably be lookig for a center.

While we do have cap space, you can't look just short term because we have it we have to spend it. I don't think a lg should eat up that much space so that other, more important positions can't be spent on in free agency etc.


So yes while joeckel and Albert might improve that side, it seems to me it would be a waste of money and a valuable pick when we already have an adequate lt and lg on the roster

I don't have a problem with your conclusion, but I have three problems with the other things you said.

1. Drafting Joeckel and keeping Albert wouldn't be a short term move though. It would be a long term move because the centerpiece would be that you're theoretically improving LT while getting 5 years younger.

2. Whether he plays G or T, Branden Albert will be eating up the same amount of cap space and preventing the signing of the same free agents.

3. I'm also not sure why you say so emphatically that Rodney Hudson was a better guard in college than Branden Albert.

[patteeu]

Actually iirc didnt Davis start at lg then go to lt?

He was drafted to play LT but ended up playing G for his first several seasons because his coaches weren't impressed enough with him.

[patteeu]

Biggest problem we are overlooking is that I don't think Albert would ever sign on knowing he might play guard

That's already been mentioned. Albert will either be signed or tagged before the draft in all likelihood.

[Sorter]

I don't have a problem with your conclusion, but I have three problems with the other things you said.

1. Drafting Joeckel and keeping Albert wouldn't be a short term move though. It would be a long term move because the centerpiece would be that you're theoretically improving LT while getting 5 years younger.

2. Whether he plays G or T, Branden Albert will be eating up the same amount of cap space and preventing the signing of the same free agents.

3. I'm also not sure why you say so emphatically that Rodney Hudson was a better guard in college than Branden Albert.

Because he was?

[O.city]

I don't have a problem with your conclusion, but I have three problems with the other things you said.

1. Drafting Joeckel and keeping Albert wouldn't be a short term move though. It would be a long term move because the centerpiece would be that you're theoretically improving LT while getting 5 years younger.

2. Whether he plays G or T, Branden Albert will be eating up the same amount of cap space and preventing the signing of the same free agents.

3. I'm also not sure why you say so emphatically that Rodney Hudson was a better guard in college than Branden Albert.

Iirc whic I may not, Albert moved to guard to allow ferguson or Monroe to play lt, he was good, Hudson was an all American and was rated highly coming out.

Yes joeckel would be a long te move.

[patteeu]

Because he was?

Convincing argument.

[O.city]

That's already been mentioned. Albert will either be signed or tagged before the draft in all likelihood.

Then that would likely take joeckel out of the discussion all together, if the intend on playing Albert at lt. If not, based on this offseason, he will play lt elsewhere. He's said he won't play guard

[patteeu]

Iirc whic I may not, Albert moved to guard to allow ferguson or Monroe to play lt, he was good, Hudson was an all American and was rated highly coming out.

Yes joeckel would be a long te move.

Ok, thanks.

[patteeu]

Then that would likely take joeckel out of the discussion all together, if the intend on playing Albert at lt. If not, based on this offseason, he will play lt elsewhere. He's said he won't play guard

I think the chances of it happening are pretty tiny to begin with. But once they sign Albert, he'll play where they tell him to play. He may not be happy about it, but he's not going to sit out and forfeit his payday. Alternatively, they could play Albert at LT and let Joeckel start his career at G or RT for a year before making the switch.

[O.city]

If they are signing or tagging Albert its likely to play lt, hence we will probably look elsewhere at #1.


At this point I don't know what they look at there though so anyone's guess is as good as mine

[O.city]

I think the chances of it happening are pretty tiny to begin with. But once they sign Albert, he'll play where they tell him to play. He may not be happy about it, but he's not going to sit out and forfeit his payday. Alternatively, they could play Albert at LT and let Joeckel start his career at G or RT for a year before making the switch.

I don't think he'd sign without knowing their intentions. Wouldn't be setting a very good example for future free agents to do that to him.


And joeckel to my knowledge has never played eithe spot so that's probably not working out.

[O.city]

Either way I'm off to bed


Enjoyed it patteu

[patteeu]

I don't think he'd sign without knowing their intentions. Wouldn't be setting a very good example for future free agents to do that to him.

I agree with that.


And joeckel to my knowledge has never played eithe spot so that's probably not working out.

I don't think it will happen, but I don't agree that his lack of experience is much of an obstacle.

[patteeu]

Either way I'm off to bed


Enjoyed it patteu

Goodnight.

[BigMeatballDave]

Signing/tagging Albert AND drafting Joeckel would be so incredibly dumb.

A huge fucking waste of a 1st rd pick.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You'd have to be a buffoon to want the team to not resign Albert only to blow the number one pick by not improving a 2-14 team with it.

[Hammock Parties]

Who the fuck is Alberts?

Why is our fan base comprised of 2/3 retards?

[milkman]

First, what no one even begins note, is that last season was only Albert's 4th season in his playing career at the. LT position.

He had to learn on the job essentially, and has just started to touch his potential.
He still has more upside, and hasn't even come close to reaching his cceiling, and he is already a top LT.

If you want to argue that Joekel. Has more potential, I would disagree with argument.

Second, to patteau's idea, it simply is not a sound financial decision.

Forget the fact that you'd be paying LT money to guard.

With your plan, with the rookie slotting, you would be committing 15 to 16 mil a year to just 2 line positions.

Not a sound Llotment of.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

ALBERT IS NOT A GUARD JFC

[milkman]

First, what no one even begins note, is that last season was only Albert's 4th season in his playing career at the. LT position.

He had to learn on the job essentially, and has just started to touch his potential.
He still has more upside, and hasn't even come close to reaching his cceiling, and he is already a top LT.

If you want to argue that Joekel. Has more potential, I would disagree with argument.

Second, to patteau's idea, it simply is not a sound financial decision.

Forget the fact that you'd be paying LT money to guard.

With your plan, with the rookie slotting, you would be committing 15 to 16 mil a year to just 2 line positions.


Not a sound allotent of.

[milkman]

That is not a sound allotment of money, even with a lot of cap space.

[Agent V]

What fresh fucking Hell is this?

[ILChief]

Who the fuck is Alberts?

Why is our fan base comprised of 2/3 retards?

I don't know but if you like the Chiefs on Facebook, go read the comments on their post with the Geno press conf. Yesterday

[griZZly64]

What the **** is this.

lmao im cracking up

[BigMeatballDave]

I don't know but if you like the Chiefs on Facebook, go read the comments on their post with the Geno press conf. Yesterday

Loads of retards in there.

[Agent V]

Can't wait for my Alberts jersey to get here. Complements my Dwayne Powe jersey quite well.

[Ace Gunner]

First, what no one even begins note, is that last season was only Albert's 4th season in his playing career at the. LT position.

He had to learn on the job essentially, and has just started to touch his potential.
He still has more upside, and hasn't even come close to reaching his cceiling, and he is already a top LT.

If you want to argue that Joekel. Has more potential, I would disagree with argument.

Second, to patteau's idea, it simply is not a sound financial decision.

Forget the fact that you'd be paying LT money to guard.

With your plan, with the rookie slotting, you would be committing 15 to 16 mil a year to just 2 line positions.

Not a sound Llotment of.

I would like to see them re -- up Albert at LT and let this existing OL come in and play a season. This would free up that #1 pick which should be used on the QB regardless what a reach it will be, this franchise needs to get in the QB sweepstakes for once in its damn life and stay in it because that is key in today's goodell happy NFL.

But, Joeckel is a better pass blocker than Albert and will always be better at this than Albert. He is quick/agressive in adjusting and keeping pass rushers in front of him, which requires quick feet and strong upper body -- Brandon Albert just does not have this, he's more or less a guy that will buy you a few moments pass protection and then he loses his guy to a move of some sort, but I think he's good enough for a quick passing scheme like Reid's WCO.

[BlackHelicopters]

Wait. What?

[Rasputin]

We got franchise LT in Albert no reason in hell to give up on him now.


This rookie scale is kind of back fireing it seems for some vets if teams don't want to pony up and pay big contracts to players who have earned the right to get payed. They can just dump on a guy and get a replacement at a discount in the draft. If that's what they do to Albert then the rookie pay scale system is flawed & defeats the purpose of it all.

[BigMeatballDave]

But, Joeckel is a better pass blocker than Albert and will always be better at this than Albert. He is quick/agressive in adjusting and keeping pass rushers in front of him, which requires quick feet and strong upper body -- Brandon Albert just does not have this, he's more or less a guy that will buy you a few moments pass protection and then he loses his guy to a move of some sort, but I think he's good enough for a quick passing scheme like Reid's WCO.

ROFL Are you really comparing a collegiate level LT that has not seen a second of action in the NFL to a NFL vet entering his 6th season at LT?

[Ace Gunner]

ROFL Are you really comparing a collegiate level LT that has not seen a second of action in the NFL to a NFL vet entering his 6th season at LT?

oh he'll get his rookie lumps, but he's better at pass protection than Albert will ever be. that dude is a technician at the LT position. i know it hurts your lil vag to read somebody else is better than your lil chiefee, but this lesson will help you grow up.

oh. wait.

[Rasputin]

oh he'll get his rookie lumps, but he's better at pass protection than Albert will ever be. that dude is a technician at the LT position. i know it hurts your lil vag to read somebody else is better than your lil chiefee, but this lesson will help you grow up.

oh. wait.

Joeckeloff can be the next Willie Roaf I don't give a fuck won't matter with out a franchise QB that we will miss out on. fuck Joeckel defeats any purpose of having the number 1 pick in the draft.

[milkman]

I would like to see them re -- up Albert at LT and let this existing OL come in and play a season. This would free up that #1 pick which should be used on the QB regardless what a reach it will be, this franchise needs to get in the QB sweepstakes for once in its damn life and stay in it because that is key in today's goodell happy NFL.

But, Joeckel is a better pass blocker than Albert and will always be better at this than Albert. He is quick/agressive in adjusting and keeping pass rushers in front of him, which requires quick feet and strong upper body -- Brandon Albert just does not have this, he's more or less a guy that will buy you a few moments pass protection and then he loses his guy to a move of some sort, but I think he's good enough for a quick passing scheme like Reid's WCO.

Further proof that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In drills at the combines, Abert displayed quickness that rivaled Ryan Clady.

His issues have always been technique.

He just started to use his hands and his hips properly last season.
He had been just trying to win his battles previously simply by leaning on people.

He still has some work to do to clean up his technique, but. You don't give up only one sack

[duncan_idaho]

I would like to see them re -- up Albert at LT and let this existing OL come in and play a season. This would free up that #1 pick which should be used on the QB regardless what a reach it will be, this franchise needs to get in the QB sweepstakes for once in its damn life and stay in it because that is key in today's goodell happy NFL.

But, Joeckel is a better pass blocker than Albert and will always be better at this than Albert. He is quick/agressive in adjusting and keeping pass rushers in front of him, which requires quick feet and strong upper body -- Brandon Albert just does not have this, he's more or less a guy that will buy you a few moments pass protection and then he loses his guy to a move of some sort, but I think he's good enough for a quick passing scheme like Reid's WCO.

Brandon Albert gave up one sack in pass pro last year. He is an excellent pass protector and grades out as such. The CHiefs' average rush when running left also speaks well for Albert's abilities as a run blocker. Joeckel is PROJECTED to be an excellent NFL pass pro guy, but he also had problems with the bull rush at times in college and was exposed a few times just this season by guys with legit NFL strength/speed combos.

Joeckel is NOT a flawless prospect. Just like everyone else in this draft.

[Ace Gunner]

Joeckeloff can be the next Willie Roaf I don't give a **** won't matter with out a franchise QB that we will miss out on. **** Joeckel defeats any purpose of having the number 1 pick in the draft.

ya, so your reading skills suck. read the first part of my OP. the part that states "I would like to see them re -- up Albert at LT and let this existing OL come in and play a season. This would free up that #1 pick which should be used on the QB regardless what a reach it will be, this franchise needs to get in the QB sweepstakes for once in its damn life and stay in it because that is key in today's goodell happy NFL."

and there is nobody but chiefs fans claiming there is a "franchise QB" in this draft.

[milkman]

You don't give up only one sack in the scenario you describe when you have. A QB that holds the baal too long like Cassel does.

[patteeu]

First, what no one even begins note, is that last season was only Albert's 4th season in his playing career at the. LT position.

He had to learn on the job essentially, and has just started to touch his potential.
He still has more upside, and hasn't even come close to reaching his cceiling, and he is already a top LT.

If you want to argue that Joekel. Has more potential, I would disagree with argument.

Second, to patteau's idea, it simply is not a sound financial decision.

Forget the fact that you'd be paying LT money to guard.

With your plan, with the rookie slotting, you would be committing 15 to 16 mil a year to just 2 line positions.

Not a sound Llotment of.

You'd have 3 rookie contracts on the OL and one pretty reasonable FA contract at RT. It wouldn't be unsound if you look at the big picture.

[Lightrise]

I've tried to think this through from all perspectives and I understand the best available argument. But this decision is really about much more than the best available. It is about QB, it is about generating fan excitement, it is about restoring attitude in the locker room. It is about breaking away from the sounds of silence culture with the media that prevailed before. It's about putting KC on the map with respect to our QB. Our situation is just not like a typical year. Proven coaches to the degree Reid is are not easy to come by in small market cities. There's a grace about Reid that seems to fit here, and yet the likely face of the team will ultimately be tougher than what we've come to see in recent years. I'm looking at all the peripheral issues and I just don't see how you marginalize them with a tackle. However, there is ONE thing that I'm having trouble ignoring. That's what Kurt Warner said at the combine, interested in Manuel. Why? He said because he's a winner. This is exactly what Mayock said about Wilson last year, that he will make his splash on Sunday's and that is exactly what he did.

Bottom line - steal the spotlight from everybody and take the quarterback, get first team media here for games and promote the hell out of a new/old rivalry with Denver.

...I could change my mind by 2 p.m. LOL

[Ace Gunner]

Brandon Albert gave up one sack in pass pro last year. He is an excellent pass protector and grades out as such. The CHiefs' average rush when running left also speaks well for Albert's abilities as a run blocker. Joeckel is PROJECTED to be an excellent NFL pass pro guy, but he also had problems with the bull rush at times in college and was exposed a few times just this season by guys with legit NFL strength/speed combos.

Joeckel is NOT a flawless prospect. Just like everyone else in this draft.

oh, well shit -- I guess I fail to see Brandon Albert IS FLAWLESS!!!!!

ridicule has taken over. I'm out.

[milkman]

You'd have 3 rookie contracts on the OL and one pretty reasonable FA contract at RT. It wouldn't be unsound if you look at the big picture.

You will be paying Albert between 10 and 11 mil.
With rookie slotting, you will be paying Joekel about 5 mil.

That's 15 to 16 mil for 2 positions on the line.

Not sure what Winston gets paid, but it has to be at least 3.

That brings you number to 18-19.

That isn't simply poor cap managment.
That's downright stupid.

[FRCDFED]

Its hard to imagine coming out of this draft without a QB. It just remains to be seen who that will be. Irregardless of who we believe is the best the decision will be made by those who actually sit down and talk with that player to assess their mental makeup. In the end that player may be available in a later round. We just don't know.

This is about the effect that Albert actually has on both the draft and the finances since he is a FA. His play has been solid but one would think he is trying to get A huge payday and who knows if Dorsey will let him walk and try to replace him through FA or the draft.

Dorsey has said that he will take the BPA. He hasn't backed off of that stance. It may be a QB in the end but at this point the experts are saying that OL fall into that category. So whether we like it or not it is possible that we take an OL. Not necessarily Joeckel but at some point pick up a replacement for Albert. If so, would we really see that much of a decline in the OL. Just because we drafted him does he deserve top LT money?

[-King-]

Dorsey has said that he will take the BPA. He hasn't backed off of that stance.

And you believe him huh?

[FRCDFED]

You will be paying Albert between 10 and 11 mil.
With rookie slotting, you will be paying Joekel about 5 mil.

That's 15 to 16 mil for 2 positions on the line.

Not sure what Winston gets paid, but it has to be at least 3.

That brings you number to 18-19.

That isn't simply poor cap managment.
That's downright stupid.. Agreed. Too much to tie up those to positions with minimal return. Now consider the effectiveness of the OL by letting Albert walk and just drafting a C in the third. Then using the first and second round picks on playmakers.

[FRCDFED]

And you believe him huh?. It doesn't matter if I believe because no matter who they draft they are going to say it was the BPA on their board.

[MahiMike]

Funny that you spelled Joeckel right....but why do some of you add an s to Albert?

Fat Alberts.

[kcbubb]

Here's the show stopper to this conversation and I'm gonna keep bringing it up till this topic dies a gruesome death...

Lets say Joeckel is a guy that just finished his rookie season and had a good year, and isn't just a guy coming out of college?

Would you be willing to trade Brandon Albert AND the first overall pick for Luke Joeckel?

If you answer yes, please find a tall building ad place a thumbtack at the base of it and then climb to the top.

Once there, try to imagine where the thumb tack is and jump, with the intent of hitting that thumbtack with your nose.

Good luck.


I think you are missing the point of a free agent. If we don't resign Albert, it is the same situation as not signing any other free agent. It would be like giving up the 1st pick and Albert. We can sign any free agent we choose.

[Easy 6]

I knew i shouldnt have clicked on this dumb thread.

[jspchief]

Didn't read the entire thread, but here's why Joeckel is a bad idea:

1. It's spending the #1 overall to save money instead of improve the team. Most likely Joeckel will be a slight upgrade at LT at best. So we are letting a good LT go so we can sign a cheaper LT that might be better. I can't imagine a worse way to use the pick.

2. If it's your claim that we keep Albert, and slide him to Guard therefore improving the guard spot, then it's using a #1 overall on a guard, which is also a terrible idea and something no team has ever done in the history of the nfl.

[htismaqe]

and there is nobody but chiefs fans claiming there is a "franchise QB" in this draft.

Absolutely false.

I participate in a couple of team-agnostic draftnik board and this is absolutely false.

In fact, a lot of those people think Chiefs fans are stupid.

[Mr. Laz]

Joeckel just ran the 40


slow off the line
looks doughy
1.89/10yrd and 5.22/40yrd

[htismaqe]

Joeckel just ran the 40


slow off the line
looks doughy
1.89/10yrd and 5.22/40yrd

But he's the best OT prospect in 10 years!

[Mr. Laz]

But he's the best OT prospect in 10 years!
he's not gaining ground at the combine


but many times Olineman look like shit off the field ... You wouldn't of thought Willie Roaf could even run by the look of him in regular clothes.

[htismaqe]

he's not gaining ground at the combine


but many times Olineman look like shit off the field ... You wouldn't of thought Willie Roaf could even run by the look of him in regular clothes.

I just like Eric Fisher better as an all-around prospect. I'd much rather have him.

[O.city]

Joeckel isn't exactly setting it ablaze there.

[BossChief]

You will be paying Albert between 10 and 11 mil.
With rookie slotting, you will be paying Joekel about 5 mil.

That's 15 to 16 mil for 2 positions on the line.

Not sure what Winston gets paid, but it has to be at least 3.

That brings you number to 18-19.

That isn't simply poor cap managment.
That's downright stupid.

And Asamoah will need a new contract ater this upcoming season, too. That's not be cheap.

[Hammock Parties]

And Asamoah will need a new contract ater this upcoming season, too. That's not be cheap.

He's a non Pro Bowl guard.

He won't be expensive.

[Brock]

And Asamoah will need a new contract ater this upcoming season, too. That's not be cheap.

Easily replaced.

[BossChief]

He's a non Pro Bowl guard.

He won't be expensive.

I'm guessing 4/yr

[CoMoChief]

And Asamoah will need a new contract ater this upcoming season, too. That's not be cheap.

Asamoah is average at best.

Don't understand the homerism that surrounds this guy. He's nothing special....good run blocker, but horrible in pass protection.

[The Franchise]

Eric Fisher will be a better LT than Joeckel.

[suds79]

Eric Fisher will be a better LT than Joeckel.

Certainly appears (take the combine for what you will) more athletic IMO. Taller and I thought has a more muscular build.

[The Franchise]

Certainly appears (take the combine for what you will) more athletic IMO. Taller and I thought has a more muscular build.

He also didn't have Manziel making him look better than he really is.

[RyFo18]

I just got back from Wal-Marts and overheard someone talking about Alberts.

[Cannibal]

Joeckel just ran the 40


slow off the line
looks doughy
1.89/10yrd and 5.22/40yrd

He looked physically weak compared to the other linemen.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Must be time to move a CB to #1. So he will eventually get cut down to size too.

[htismaqe]

He looked physically weak compared to the other linemen.

He wasn't impressive on the bench, either.

[Cannibal]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/2/23/4021404/luke-joeckel-40-yard-dash

Luke Joeckel, arguably the top player in the 2013 NFL Draft ran poor 40-yard dash times at the NFL Combine.

Unofficially, he ran times of 5.22 and 5.35, while Lane Johnson ran a 4.75 in both of his chances. Joeckel's closest competition for the top tackle spot in the draft, Eric Fisher, ran an unofficial 5.01 and a 5.07.

Consider this a warning. People are going to start talking about how Joeckel's 40-yard dash time compares favorably to Cincinnati Bengals right tackle Andre Smith. Or how the best tackles taken in recent years – Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Duane Brown, Trent Williams, Russell Okung, Tyron Smith and Matt Kalil – all broke the five-second mark in the 40.

They're also going to bring up NFL Network's Mike Mayock saying he's "a bit concerned" how Joeckel handled speed rushers and that he was beat on the inside.

But remember at the 2010 combine when Bruce Campbell of Maryland ran a 4.78? Or in 2007 when Allen Barbre ran a 4.84? NFL teams probably don't.

The point is, the 40-yard dash for offensive tackles largely doesn't matter. The 40-yard dash doesn't measure athleticism. It's not the three-cone drill. The drill tests pure speed, and nothing else. It's notable that Joeckel ran slow times. It's not newsworthy. It certainly shouldn't hurt his NFL Draft stock. He should still be the first tackle selected.

"Yeah, definitely coming into this thing I wanted to be the first tackle taken in the draft," Joeckel said at the NFL Combine. "Now I know it’s a long process until then. I’m trying to do every single thing right to make sure that happens. I know it’s a competition between him (Central Michigan’s Eric Fisher) against the other guys, you know (Oklahoma’s) Lane Johnson. It’s good type of competition between all of us. That’s one of the fun parts about the combine – the competition aspect of it, going against some of the best athletes at your position in the country."

[Coogs]

I would like to think Brandon Albert got a little bit richer today.

I also would like to believe the QB's in this draft started picking up some steam in their rise to the top of the draft.

[htismaqe]

The most significant portion of his 40 is that he looked like he was slow getting started.

That's a BIG problem for a lineman.

The biggest concern about Joeckel is that he's a pure "finesse" player and lacks strength. So far, he's showing that those concerns are absolutely valid.

Just wait until they run the "explosion" drills and he fails those too.

[Mr. Laz]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/2/23/4021404/luke-joeckel-40-yard-dash

Luke Joeckel, arguably the top player in the 2013 NFL Draft ran poor 40-yard dash times at the NFL Combine.

Unofficially, he ran times of 5.22 and 5.35, while Lane Johnson ran a 4.75 in both of his chances. Joeckel's closest competition for the top tackle spot in the draft, Eric Fisher, ran an unofficial 5.01 and a 5.07.



I don't really care about the 40


I'm far more concerned with how slow he started ... very little explosion. He also looked pretty 'dumpy'. I'm not sure if he considers himself in shape or not but he doesn't look it.

[mcaj22]

The most significant portion of his 40 is that he looked like he was slow getting started.

That's a BIG problem for a lineman.

The biggest concern about Joeckel is that he's a pure "finesse" player and lacks strength. So far, he's showing that those concerns are absolutely valid.

Just wait until they run the "explosion" drills and he fails those too.

the irony that he's a "finesse" LT and the prediction out on him is he will get beat like a drum by every NFL next level speed rusher out there.

great

[Cannibal]

The most significant portion of his 40 is that he looked like he was slow getting started.

That's a BIG problem for a lineman.

The biggest concern about Joeckel is that he's a pure "finesse" player and lacks strength. So far, he's showing that those concerns are absolutely valid.

Just wait until they run the "explosion" drills and he fails those too.

His stock is dropping. The pundits are looking stupid.

[Jerm]

I told a buddy a couple of weeks ago that I'd take Fisher over Joeckel 10 times out of 10 and Joeckel is the most overrated guy in the draft....still no doubt in my mind.

Manziel and their scheme made Joeckel look like a million bucks.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I knew i shouldnt have clicked on this dumb thread.

man, you aint kiddin. The next time this motherfucker comes to the inbox, im going right to unsubscribe and not looking back.
Posted via Mobile Device if, however, the becomes a fatty FAIL thread...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Absolutely false.

I participate in a couple of team-agnostic draftnik board and this is absolutely false.

In fact, a lot of those people think Chiefs fans are stupid.

i agree.
Posted via Mobile Device

[AustinChief]

Drafting the 2nd best LT coming out this year (I honestly think Fisher is better than Joekel) would be insanely stupid when you have legit options available as free agents. Obviously your best bet is to sign the guy you have... BUT if that is somehow not possible... you have a ton of decent options this year without having to use the #1 pick. I am a huge proponent of a strong Oline but using our 1st rounder on oline this year is about the only draft choice that would piss me off. If we don't go QB, we need to scramble to trade down(not likely) or look at CB. But if we need a LT, there are plenty of serviceable free agents this year.

[AustinChief]

His stock is dropping. The pundits are looking stupid.

I never understood why he was rated so high to begin with. Fisher I get, but not Joekel.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

black friday his ass.
Posted via Mobile Device