Installing a passenger side mirror?

[SAUTO]

Then every mechanic you know, including Sauto is a crook.


Also, it shows to me that you know nothing about the business.

let me give you a hypothetical of how this works.

My labor hour is $80 an hour
My labor hour markup is 10%
You Car is booking at 2.2 Hours to fix (2.0 standard)
It takes me 45 minutes to fix.

Every business is going to charge you that 2.2 Hours to fix, unless they are the 1% of business out there that don't mark their labor hour up. In which case you get charged for 2.0 hours.

It still took us 45 minutes to fix, and you get charged 2 hours.

Are we crooks then?

If you say yes, then it appears to me that you haven't read a god damned thing in this thread, and are only trying to troll at this point, because your lack of business sense or reading comprehension are low or non existent.

No one i have ever worked for has a mark up on the labor hours above what the book says.

thats not right IMO.

[Exoter175]

I almost never have non-warranty work done at a dealer. I only went there because I thought GM might have a hidden warranty on it because it was a known problem. Also, when I bought my (new) pickup from them, I was told one of the reasons I should "buy local" (i.e. from them) was because they took care of their customers once the warranty was done. LMAO

If they charged more reasonable prices, maybe they would get more business and make more money to pay all of those expenses. However, maybe they don't want non-warranty work. Dunno.

Honestly, check the service bulletins on your car anytime you have a weird problem with it like that, a lot of times there will be a recall or an extended warranty replacement on an issue, and it will be fixed free of charge.

However, unless you specifically walk up to the service writer and tell him about the TSB you found, they aren't going to offer it unless it falls under an emergency recall, in which case you should have received a letter in the mail about it at some point. Dealerships do not like to do work for free, so they generally won't tell you about it unless it is a serious emergency. If it falls under a non emergency category, they might just charge you to replace it if you don't know better.

[Saul Good]

You sit here and say you didn't expect it, but you call it unreasonable and call them crooks for not doing it for 20 dollars or less.

You still do not UNDERSTAND the point everyone is driving across to you. This is a business, not a charity, kid. You might have a shitty car you don't appreciate, knowing that it'll cost a ton to fix later on, but in the eyes of a mechanic, your car is just like the next Mercedes that pulls up. Its going to cost you the same labor hour that it'll cost on the Mercedes. Why in the actual **** would you ever assume that the state of your car has anything to do with how much I'm going to charge you?

Which brings me to my second point.

Labor Hour. If you don't understand what Labor Hour is, or what it means, you shouldn't be dictating price.

Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Why? Because its going to cost me 400+ per day to have this building with these tools, with these employees, with the insurance to cover all of them, just to be in business. I have to make my money somewhere, and where I make it is labor hour, and parts.

Since you are bringing in a part I can't mark up, I ONLY make money on the labor hour, where I'm less likely to discount you on.

If you don't like the costs associated with running a business and having work done by professionals, use your mexicans, but understand there is nothing Constitutional or Patriotic about what you are doing, and you are only hurting the economy because you are a cheap ****.



And this is why you're a moron. Entitled? No. Lawful and helpful to the economy? Yes.

You say reasonable to a Mexican for 20 bucks, I see liability, economic downturn, and a cheapskate.

You're all full of negativity but understand this, when they **** up something on your car, you have no ability to go after them for damages, and they won't be paying you back for their mistakes. If you did it at my shop, you'd be taken care of because you get what you pay for, and with a business, by law, I'm supposed to take care of you if I **** up.



This. But, as I've said, labor hour is labor hour. It doesn't go up or down depending on the condition of the car being worked on.

In case anyone missed it, here's the post where you showed your ass and admitted that you knowingly bill for more hours than the job takes.

[Exoter175]

No one i have ever worked for has a mark up on the labor hours above what the book says.

thats not right IMO.

Then you haven't worked anywhere worth a shit, or live in some kind of small town backwoods rural area, which I know you do.

Furthermore, you wouldn't know what you were looking for even if you saw it.

[chiefforlife]

This is getting out of hand.

Actual book time on that mirror is 1 hour. If you called my shop and asked, we would quote you 1 hour. Period.

We do install bulbs on most vehicles at no charge other than the bulb itself. If you are a good customer, we probably wouldnt charge you at all for that. I have made many a customer by doing this for someone in the parking lot and saying, there you go its on me.

I think exort is getting hammered here, a lot of shops do what he is saying.

[Frosty]

Honestly, check the service bulletins on your car anytime you have a weird problem with it like that, a lot of times there will be a recall or an extended warranty replacement on an issue, and it will be fixed free of charge.

However, unless you specifically walk up to the service writer and tell him about the TSB you found, they aren't going to offer it unless it falls under an emergency recall, in which case you should have received a letter in the mail about it at some point. Dealerships do not like to do work for free, so they generally won't tell you about it unless it is a serious emergency. If it falls under a non emergency category, they might just charge you to replace it if you don't know better.

Actually, I did have a copy of the TSB. That's when I got the song and dance about the book saying 2 hours.

[The Franchise]

Not at all, we had complimentary coffee, TV, and some nice, comfy chairs for you to sit in while you waited.

I encourage you to time us on our job.:thumb:

And if you quote me 4 hours.....and only take 2 hours and 15 minutes to complete the job.....am I allowed to question the bill?

[Hootie]

Then you haven't worked anywhere worth a shit, or live in some kind of small town backwoods rural area, which I know you do.

Furthermore, you wouldn't know what you were looking for even if you saw it.

You're just a prick. Play me in Madden so I can show you real greatness. I'll fuck your hole until you bleed out.

[notorious]

This thread just regained it's burst.

[Exoter175]

In case anyone missed it, here's the post where you showed your ass and admitted that you knowingly bill for more hours than the job takes.

And in case you missed it, that was a Hypothetical scenario where "I" am playing the part of the business, and explaining to you how the industry is ran. Not how I specifically do MY business.

Just because I tell you how the business is ran, does not mean that is how I do business.

But go ahead wise one, explain to me how I did business from a hypothetical quote, when I've spent the last 5 pages to you explaining how I did it in real life, and try to argue more that the hypothetical quote carries more weight.

Saul, you don't understand the business, don't tell me how it is ran.

[SAUTO]

Explain to me how I am a thief, I'd love to hear that.

Not a single business in this country charges their labor hour based on the actual time spent. Not even ol' buddy Sauto can claim that with a straight face.

no i actually charge book time OR LESS.

sometimes i even charge less if its its a job that i know i can kick its ass.

and i can say that with a straight face.


i never mark up labor times, i never charge MORE than the book calls for.

[notorious]

Damn, all of us business owners must be having a slow day (or sick as fuck, like myself).

[Frosty]

No one i have ever worked for has a mark up on the labor hours above what the book says.

thats not right IMO.

It looks like a way to keep the income up while making it look like the apparent shop rate is lower.

[Frosty]

Damn, all of us business owners must be having a slow day (or sick as ****, like myself).

Yeah, really. What are all of you slackers doing on the Internet instead of fixing my car? :banghead: No wonder your rates are so high.

[SAUTO]

Mechanics don't punch a clock in and out on a job. From my understanding, most repairs have a "set time" in the books for how long they should take. If the mechanics finish early, customers aren't catching a break on cost.

this is true, exorter is saying he MARKS UP THE BOOK LABOR TIMES.

so by the book it says the job pays 2.0 hours.


he bills the customer for 2.2 hours.


that is actually unethical

[notorious]

Yeah, really. What are all of you slackers doing on the Internet instead of fixing my car? :banghead: No wonder your rates are so high.

LMAO.


I just about puked because you made me laugh.

[SAUTO]

Damn, all of us business owners must be having a slow day (or sick as fuck, like myself).

not me, busy as hell. mechanics are running their asses off out there. lol


im on top of ordering parts

[Exoter175]

This is getting out of hand.

Actual book time on that mirror is 1 hour. If you called my shop and asked, we would quote you 1 hour. Period.

We do install bulbs on most vehicles at no charge other than the bulb itself. If you are a good customer, we probably wouldnt charge you at all for that. I have made many a customer by doing this for someone in the parking lot and saying, there you go its on me.

I think exort is getting hammered here, a lot of shops do what he is saying.

Thank you for the somewhat backup confirmation on the fact that business is ran this way, just as business is ran your way.

I picked up the AAA Gold Plus package one night just to tow a customer home from Columbia back to KC, free of charge.

But watch out, I'll fuck you when you're not looking.LMAO

Actually, I did have a copy of the TSB. That's when I got the song and dance about the book saying 2 hours.

That's messed up, though, some TSB's are not covered by warranty or by the shop, they are just mid level TSB's that there "are" issues, not that they need immediate replacement due to emergency. I would have thought you'd have gotten much better service, it almost seems like they were trying to fuck you from the start.

And if you quote me 4 hours.....and only take 2 hours and 15 minutes to complete the job.....am I allowed to question the bill?

You're always allowed to question a bill.

However, if I quote you 4 hours to fix something, and you sign off on that, and it takes me 2 and a half to do it? You are legally bound to pay for the 4 hours. Cases like these rarely come up when you're talking about being billed nearly twice as much as a job will take, but sometimes a mechanic is just on fire that day and he gets it done fast. And I'm going to explain to you just that. I'm also not the type to have my mechanic "wait" so it looks like it took that much time. I want you in and out as much as you do, if we have a disagreement, I'm going to try try and make things right by you, but understand that I owe you NOTHING for my expedience in this business.

You're just a prick. Play me in Madden so I can show you real greatness. I'll fuck your hole until you bleed out.

I'd fuck your world up princess.
This thread just regained it's burst.

Yeah it did.

[SAUTO]

Then you haven't worked anywhere worth a shit, or live in some kind of small town backwoods rural area, which I know you do.

Furthermore, you wouldn't know what you were looking for even if you saw it.

LOL, i worked in a couple of the busiest shops in KC.

now i own my own business in the country, right by a lake.


i do that BECAUSE I CHOOSE that way of living.


but i dont rip my customer off either

[notorious]

not me, busy as hell. mechanics are running their asses off out there. lol


im on top of ordering parts

Break time!


Owning a business has it's downsides. My break time consists of calling customers, scheduling, and paying bills.

A day like today, I am sick. I don't have sick pay/sick days. This day is a big pile of loss (except for Hootie's thread).

[Exoter175]

Damn, all of us business owners must be having a slow day (or sick as fuck, like myself).

I wouldn't know, I'm in my PJ's today making phone calls to other business owners as I prepare another business venture!
Yeah, really. What are all of you slackers doing on the Internet instead of fixing my car? :banghead: No wonder your rates are so high.

Right?o:-)

[The Franchise]

You're always allowed to question a bill.

However, if I quote you 4 hours to fix something, and you sign off on that, and it takes me 2 and a half to do it? You are legally bound to pay for the 4 hours. Cases like these rarely come up when you're talking about being billed nearly twice as much as a job will take, but sometimes a mechanic is just on fire that day and he gets it done fast. And I'm going to explain to you just that. I'm also not the type to have my mechanic "wait" so it looks like it took that much time. I want you in and out as much as you do, if we have a disagreement, I'm going to try try and make things right by you, but understand that I owe you NOTHING for my expedience in this business.


That would be your answer if you quoted someone 4 hours....took 2 to do the work and then questioned about it? Your mechanic must have been on fire that day?

That excuse wouldn't earn you a repeat customer.

[Exoter175]

no i actually charge book time OR LESS.

sometimes i even charge less if its its a job that i know i can kick its ass.

and i can say that with a straight face.


i never mark up labor times, i never charge MORE than the book calls for.

Then you fall under the category mentioned about a dozen pages back of A. guys that NEED the work, or B. mom and pop shop in the middle of nowhere.

[Exoter175]

LOL, i worked in a couple of the busiest shops in KC.

now i own my own business in the country, right by a lake.


i do that BECAUSE I CHOOSE that way of living.


but i dont rip my customer off either

You don't have the opportunity to "rip" them off, you lose one customer, you lose the whole town.LMAO

Also, which of these "busiest shops in kc" are you referring to?

[Saul Good]

Then every mechanic you know, including Sauto is a crook.


Also, it shows to me that you know nothing about the business.

let me give you a hypothetical of how this works.

My labor hour is $80 an hour
My labor hour markup is 10%
You Car is booking at 2.2 Hours to fix (2.0 standard)
It takes me 45 minutes to fix.

Every business is going to charge you that 2.2 Hours to fix, unless they are the 1% of business out there that don't mark their labor hour up. In which case you get charged for 2.0 hours.

It still took us 45 minutes to fix, and you get charged 2 hours.

Are we crooks then?

If you say yes, then it appears to me that you haven't read a god damned thing in this thread, and are only trying to troll at this point, because your lack of business sense or reading comprehension are low or non existent.

Best post of the thread right here.

Job should take 2 hours.
Actual labor is 45 minutes.
Bill for labor is $176

Now, he claims to charge $80 an hour for labor, but $80 an hour would come to $60. In reality, he's charging $235 an hour.

He defends this by talking about how thorough he is. Doing a job that should take 2 hours in 45 minutes doesn't scream thorough to me, but what the **** do I know?

Maybe he's so ****ing good that he can do in 45 minutes what a mere mortal requires two hours to complete. If so, great. Charge $235 bucks an hour and explain that you will get the work done in half the time as the guy down the road and for the same price overall. Don't pad your hours (ie outright lie to the customers) and pretend you're not a shyster.

[notorious]

Also, which of these "busiest shops in kc" are you referring to?

WalMart service center, of course.



:fire:

[Exoter175]

That would be your answer if you quoted someone 4 hours....took 2 to do the work and then questioned about it? Your mechanic must have been on fire that day?

That excuse wouldn't earn you a repeat customer.

No, that wouldn't be my answer, but you didn't pose me a question.

I said I would allow you to question the bill, and I told you why I would allow it, and that I'd try to make it right by you, but that I had zero obligation to you.

[Exoter175]

Best post of the thread right here.

Job should take 2 hours.
Actual labor is 45 minutes.
Bill for labor is $176

Now, he claims to charge $80 an hour for labor, but $80 an hour would come to $60. In reality, he's charging $235 an hour.

He defends this by talking about how thorough he is. Doing a job that should take 2 hours in 45 minutes doesn't scream thorough to me, but what the fuck do I know?

Maybe he's so fucking good that he can do in 45 minutes what a mere mortal requires two hours to complete. If so, great. Charge $176 bucks an hour and explain that you will get the work done in half the time as the guy down the road and for the same price overall. Don't pad your hours (ie outright lie to the customers) and pretend you're not a shyster.


I'm not sure where you are getting your math from, but it is wrong.

I'm not sure where these hypotheticals are coming from with the 45 minutes and 2 hours bit. Without the quotes I quoted.
WalMart service center, of course.



:fire:

No shit, its what I am expecting lol.

[SAUTO]

I'm not honest? Am I not the one here telling you guys exactly how 99.9% of every business is ran except for apparently you butt buddy Sauto.

Listen, he works for a mom and pop shop in BFE, if he opened a shop in KC, he'd be out of business the next day. It doesn't matter how good his work is, or how friendly he is with customers, the sheer cost of business would drive him in the dirt, which is why most people will hire managers to oversee the business and make sure it is ran right. Simple minded folks like Sauto don't have the stomach for business, to crunch numbers night and day so that they can stay in business and provide their service to the public. I do, and I'm being honest and you are reaming me for it?

Sorry for educating the dumb-masses.



Which is why I decided to post at length about this, so people know exactly how this field of business is ran so they know what to expect.



This, somebody knows how business works. It seems like he's one of the few in this thread actively posting who knows the concept of "You get what you pay for" and knows that SPEED and turnaround factors into that.



Who are you to say that the number is already inflated?

In all honesty, unless you are a top notch mechanic, you're going to run pretty close to that book time, if you do it right and follow every step. I've seen guys cut corners and half ass it and do it in half the time, but then again, I don't PAY them to half ass things.

My work is top notch, you get nothing but the best from me, and that includes my anal retentive ways of making sure everything is perfect. You're paying for the best service in KC, and you're going to pay for it. Not because I say so, but because my service is the best, my service comes with degrees and certificates, and because it comes with a work ethic second to none. It will never hurt me to have a mexican take a job away from me, lord knows I've always got work to do anyways.

The point is, every business marks up the book time so they can get 10% here or 10% there.

I've yet to hear you bitch to me about how we markup our parts too, because we make more in the markup of parts than we do in our book times.

Yet, I don't think you'll call that unethical.

Interesting how you argue one side of the coin here, and not the other.i've been in business quite some time.

i'm doing just fine. would be doing just fine anywhere else also buddy.

no reason to mark up the book times for a busy shop.

[notorious]

Wow, I just realized that I have never had anyone question my bill.


I guess I am doing something right.

[notorious]

No shit, its what I am expecting lol.

Jason is fine in my book. I was just breaking his balls.

[SAUTO]

You don't have the opportunity to "rip" them off, you lose one customer, you lose the whole town.LMAO

Also, which of these "busiest shops in kc" are you referring to?


i dont WANT to rip them off either.
you tell me what shops you owned and i'll tell you what shop i was the lead tech at.

[Hootie]

Exoter gave this thread full blown AIDS

[SAUTO]

Correct, but I don't believe anyone is arguing they should "catch a break".
What is being argued is that if I have a job that the book says should take 8 hours, is it ethical for Extorter to charge for 10. He may be able to get it done in 4, that's irrelevant. The book (be it Chilton's, AllData, or Mitchell) calls for 8.

So charging that extra 10-25% that he claimed is outright theft.

EXACTLY this.

[Frosty]

Wow, I just realized that I have never had anyone question my bill.


I guess I am doing something right.


I honestly don't care how many hours something is going to take. When shopping around, I go by the total estimate, the word of mouth about the shop, if the shop is clean and run by professionals, the quality of the parts, etc. However, I do find the idea that the book hours are inflated so you can keep your shop rates lower (since that is one of things some people shop around for) kind of hinky.

[Exoter175]

i've been in business quite some time.

i'm doing just fine. would be doing just fine anywhere else also buddy.

no reason to mark up the book times for a busy shop.

Then that's how you do business, god bless you, but I do a better job, more thorough, with better mechanics than you do. I know how to run a successful business, I've ran two back to back in the same field while pursuing various degrees and certifications as I've explained to you before.

Trust me when I say this, your good natured, "deals with a handshake" attitude of never marking anything up, will run you out of business.

You might be busy, but you won't be able to pay the bills due to rent and expenses. You'll either have to raise costs, or cut corners. If you raise costs, you're talking about marking up labor hours or raising hourly rate, if you don't, you have to cut costs, which means running a 1 or 2 man show, or not covering insurance.

All of which put you in jeopardy.

You can guarantee me anything you want Sauto, but I've owned and operated two extremely successful business in the KC Metro personally, you have not.

[SAUTO]

In case anyone wants to know, an 02 Audi Allroad door mirror's official book time is 1 hour.

you are a guy whose opinion i trust in this situation.


do you mark up your book times by a percentage on every job?

[Exoter175]

i dont WANT to rip them off either.
you tell me what shops you owned and i'll tell you what shop i was the lead tech at.

You completely missed the joke in its entirety.

I asked you first, Sauto. Just like I did in the last pissing match of a thread between you and I.

[SAUTO]

So if you book for 8.....but your mechanic is slow and takes 12......the customer doesn't get charged those extra 4 hours.....correct?

not at my shop

[notorious]

Then that's how you do business, god bless you, but I do a better job, more thorough, with better mechanics than you do. I know how to run a successful business, .




Oh shit.

[Brock]

Then that's how you do business, god bless you, but I do a better job, more thorough, with better mechanics than you do. I know how to run a successful business, I've ran two back to back in the same field while pursuing various degrees and certifications as I've explained to you before.

Trust me when I say this, your good natured, "deals with a handshake" attitude of never marking anything up, will run you out of business.

You might be busy, but you won't be able to pay the bills due to rent and expenses. You'll either have to raise costs, or cut corners. If you raise costs, you're talking about marking up labor hours or raising hourly rate, if you don't, you have to cut costs, which means running a 1 or 2 man show, or not covering insurance.

All of which put you in jeopardy.

You can guarantee me anything you want Sauto, but I've owned and operated two extremely successful business in the KC Metro personally, you have not.

Think the guy has been in business long enough to know what he's doing.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

He's not charging for anything not on the quote, but he is putting things on the quote that aren't actually happening. He is intentionally quoting the job to take longer than it will and should require.

He can put blinker fluid and muffler bearings in the quote in hopes that the customer won't know any better, and it's the same thing.

so? You obviously have never performed a labor-intensive estimate for a business. I do similar in construction. I may know that installing a door takes my carpenters 24 minutes on average. But I can damn sure tell you I'm bidding it at 30 minutes because there are unknowns and unforeseen circumstances on every installation. They may find that the door is damaged or mis-prepped. This takes additional time to get addressed. They may find that the hardware set is missing screws, that takes time.

If you bid EXACTLY what a task "should" take, you will lose money, because there is no line item for "mistakes, errors, miscalculations, making phone calls, guys taking a shit, the power going out, etc.". There is no line item for "installing the cabinets took 7.5hrs but there was no way the carpenters were going home half an hour early, so they stood around and told jokes".

That is in no way unethical, screwing the customer, illegal, or anything of the sort. That is accommodating the nature of the business in an effective, manageable manner.

[SAUTO]

I don't think you understand the process.

Similarly in construction, there are Cost Books which give contractors industry averages for performing various types of work. Some bid straight off them, some adjust, and some (like me) only use them when dealing with something we don't have a grasp on. I DO THIS TOO

If the cost book tells me it will take 43 hours to install wood trim in a fancy conference room, and it only takes me 30, that's my windfall. It helps even out the next job when it takes us 70 hours instead of 43.

And again, as I understand it, he is using the "book" to quote repairs, then billing what he quoted. Nothing wrong with that.


but he is adding 10 to 20 % hours ON TOP OF THE BOOK TIME.

[Saul Good]

I'm not sure where you are getting your math from, but it is wrong.

I'm not sure where these hypotheticals are coming from with the 45 minutes and 2 hours bit. Without the quotes I quoted.


No shit, its what I am expecting lol.

I get my math from your post.

$80 per hour times 2.2 hours is $176.

176 / three quarters of an hour is $235.


Your math teacher must have also taught business ethics.

[SAUTO]

that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

he didnt.


but he charged them for more hours than the book called for. that is unethical in my book and in everyone's book i ever worked for. (even the big shops in kc)

[SAUTO]

The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.i charge 30 bucks to put those intermediate shafts on a PU

[Frosty]

If you raise costs, you're talking about marking up labor hours or raising hourly rate, if you don't, you have to cut costs, which means running a 1 or 2 man show, or not covering insurance.

This is what I am talking about. Raising the hourly rate it an above the board way to do is as the customer can see up front what you charge and can make comparisons. However, artificially raising the book hours and keeping the shop rates lower is unethical, imo. Customers don't have access to those books and may be getting charged more than they think compared to other shops.

[Saul Good]

Then that's how you do business, god bless you, but I do a better job, more thorough, with better mechanics than you do. I know how to run a successful business, I've ran two back to back in the same field while pursuing various degrees and certifications as I've explained to you before.

Trust me when I say this, your good natured, "deals with a handshake" attitude of never marking anything up, will run you out of business.

You might be busy, but you won't be able to pay the bills due to rent and expenses. You'll either have to raise costs, or cut corners. If you raise costs, you're talking about marking up labor hours or raising hourly rate, if you don't, you have to cut costs, which means running a 1 or 2 man show, or not covering insurance.

All of which put you in jeopardy.

You can guarantee me anything you want Sauto, but I've owned and operated two extremely successful business in the KC Metro personally, you have not.

What a stud. You must be the mechanic for every celebrity in Olathe, KS.

[SAUTO]

So as a shop owner....would you be pissed if I sat there and timed you working on my car?

no. but you would have to understand that the price agreed to is the price paid no matter how long it took me.


i've never took longer than the book says unless i wasnt trying

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Honestly, check the service bulletins on your car anytime you have a weird problem with it like that, a lot of times there will be a recall or an extended warranty replacement on an issue, and it will be fixed free of charge.

However, unless you specifically walk up to the service writer and tell him about the TSB you found, they aren't going to offer it unless it falls under an emergency recall, in which case you should have received a letter in the mail about it at some point. Dealerships do not like to do work for free, so they generally won't tell you about it unless it is a serious emergency. If it falls under a non emergency category, they might just charge you to replace it if you don't know better.

what pisses me off are TSBs that expire. My Mercury had a TSB issued for a buzzing issue related to the speedo. I didn't know that until after the period for claims against the TSB expired. :banghead:

[DeezNutz]

Since Sauto has owned his own shop for only the last two months, I'm worried for him. I wonder what that dude is going to be doing later this year for work?

[Frosty]

i charge 30 bucks to put those intermediate shafts on a PU

That seems reasonable and I probably would have paid that as it was a bit of a pain to do.

[notorious]

no. but you would have to understand that the price agreed to is the price paid no matter how long it took me.




That is what I'm talking about.

[SAUTO]

This is getting out of hand.

Actual book time on that mirror is 1 hour. If you called my shop and asked, we would quote you 1 hour. Period.

We do install bulbs on most vehicles at no charge other than the bulb itself. If you are a good customer, we probably wouldnt charge you at all for that. I have made many a customer by doing this for someone in the parking lot and saying, there you go its on me.

I think exort is getting hammered here, a lot of shops do what he is saying.

this.
but if he's inflating book time he's not doing a good service to his customers.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

but he is adding 10 to 20 % hours ON TOP OF THE BOOK TIME.

if you know for a fact that the "book" gives you 1 hour top replace a part, and in reality every time you've done it it took you 1.5hrs are you going to quote future ones at 1 or 1.5?

[Frosty]

what pisses me off are TSBs that expire. My Mercury had a TSB issued for a buzzing issue related to the speedo. I didn't know that until after the period for claims against the TSB expired. :banghead:

That what I ran into. The TSB expired because I don't drive much and the problem didn't crop up until too late.

[SAUTO]

You don't have the opportunity to "rip" them off, you lose one customer, you lose the whole town.LMAO

Also, which of these "busiest shops in kc" are you referring to?

honestly there are 10 other shops in this town

[Exoter175]

Think the guy has been in business long enough to know what he's doing.

Not in a major metropolitan area he hasn't, which I specifically noted about 15 pages ago.
so? You obviously have never performed a labor-intensive estimate for a business. I do similar in construction. I may know that installing a door takes my carpenters 24 minutes on average. But I can damn sure tell you I'm bidding it at 30 minutes because there are unknowns and unforeseen circumstances on every installation. They may find that the door is damaged or mis-prepped. This takes additional time to get addressed. They may find that the hardware set is missing screws, that takes time.

If you bid EXACTLY what a task "should" take, you will lose money, because there is no line item for "mistakes, errors, miscalculations, making phone calls, guys taking a shit, the power going out, etc.". There is no line item for "installing the cabinets took 7.5hrs but there was no way the carpenters were going home half an hour early, so they stood around and told jokes".

That is in no way unethical, screwing the customer, illegal, or anything of the sort. That is accommodating the nature of the business in an effective, manageable manner.

Great post :thumb:

I get my math from your post.

$80 per hour times 2.2 hours is $176.

176 / three quarters of an hour is $235.


Your math teacher must have also taught business ethics.

No, you are applying your bullshit to the post, there's a difference.

If a book time calls for two hours, I charge for two hours. The job gets done, and I get paid for two hours, simple as that.

My book times are scaled to add 10% to the labor required to account for thoroughness and accommodations I make for the customer.

This is what I am talking about. Raising the hourly rate it an above the board way to do is as the customer can see up front what you charge and can make comparisons. However, artificially raising the book hours and keeping the shop rates lower is unethical, imo. Customers don't have access to those books and may be getting charged more than they think compared to other shops.

And in many cases, the customers are, but in my businesses, I SHOW them exactly what they are paying for, as they watch me prepare the quote for them.

This isn't some behind the scenes quote job where I mask hours or apply scalers to the jobs being done, I simply point and click with the customer watching the screen so they know themselves.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

this is true, exorter is saying he MARKS UP THE BOOK LABOR TIMES.

so by the book it says the job pays 2.0 hours.


he bills the customer for 2.2 hours.


that is actually unethical

no, he's never said that.

he said he QUOTES the customer 2.2 hours, and then bills them 2.2 hours. How is that unethical?

[Saul Good]

if you know for a fact that the "book" gives you 1 hour top replace a part, and in reality every time you've done it it took you 1.5hrs are you going to quote future ones at 1 or 1.5?

Then you probably aren't qualified to do that particular job.

[Frosty]

This isn't some behind the scenes quote job where I mask hours or apply scalers to the jobs being done, I simply point and click with the customer watching the screen so they know themselves.

But you aren't showing them the same hours that another shop might.

[SAUTO]

Then that's how you do business, god bless you, but I do a better job, more thorough, with better mechanics than you do. I know how to run a successful business, I've ran two back to back in the same field while pursuing various degrees and certifications as I've explained to you before.

Trust me when I say this, your good natured, "deals with a handshake" attitude of never marking anything up, will run you out of business.

You might be busy, but you won't be able to pay the bills due to rent and expenses. You'll either have to raise costs, or cut corners. If you raise costs, you're talking about marking up labor hours or raising hourly rate, if you don't, you have to cut costs, which means running a 1 or 2 man show, or not covering insurance.

All of which put you in jeopardy.

You can guarantee me anything you want Sauto, but I've owned and operated two extremely successful business in the KC Metro personally, you have not.

LOL. my way has kept this shop open longer than BOTH OF YOUR FAILED BUSINESSES. i've got plenty of insurance. pay all bills. hell even have plenty of money in the bank LOL

trust me buddy i know what im doing. i do it by the book and have great mechanics that work under me.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

he didnt.


but he charged them for more hours than the book called for. that is unethical in my book and in everyone's book i ever worked for. (even the big shops in kc)

perhaps he does that instead of charging the 28% for shop supplies....

[SAUTO]

Think the guy has been in business long enough to know what he's doing.

wait, maybe i need advice from a guy who has ran two into the ground.


and now is posting that he wants to start another.LMAO


i see guys like that quite often.

they take as much money from people as possible then they skip town for a while, then here they are back under a NEW name and do it all again.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

This is what I am talking about. Raising the hourly rate it an above the board way to do is as the customer can see up front what you charge and can make comparisons. However, artificially raising the book hours and keeping the shop rates lower is unethical, imo. Customers don't have access to those books and may be getting charged more than they think compared to other shops.

you people must go to different auto repair places than I do. I never ask the labor rate or the book time. I ask for a price. Period. 2 hours at $80 and 2.2 hours at $72.70 is STILL $160. That's all anyone should give a fuck about.

[SAUTO]

perhaps he does that instead of charging the 28% for shop supplies....

i dont charge for shop supplies either.

what i use is listed on the ticket. if we use supplies they are listed right out and charged accordingly.

no shop supplies line on my invoices

[Exoter175]

but he is adding 10 to 20 % hours ON TOP OF THE BOOK TIME.

No, I am not.

he didnt.


but he charged them for more hours than the book called for. that is unethical in my book and in everyone's book i ever worked for. (even the big shops in kc)

I adjusted the book times to fit my business of going above and beyond what you could even THINK of as customer service, to guarantee that any work done, does not come back as a fault, or that I am not liable for any issue.

Something you'd be doing in the greater metro area if you had a business here ran purely by the customer service you offer.

But you don't.

You're a small town mom and pop shop that does as much business in a 3 months, as I did in ONE month.

Where I competed with the likes of Goodyear, Firestone, NTB, Calverts (who I later sold the business to), all 5 locations within 5 miles of me, on top of 150 other private, smaller repair shops within the same distance.

What a stud. You must be the mechanic for every celebrity in Olathe, KS.

I'm a businessman who keeps tabs on EVERYONE, because I don't like to lose.

no. but you would have to understand that the price agreed to is the price paid no matter how long it took me.


i've never took longer than the book says unless i wasnt trying

Then you haven't worked on a fraction of the cars I have, because if you honestly can sit here and say that you've never taken longer than book, you haven't worked on shit by comparison.

No offense.

what pisses me off are TSBs that expire. My Mercury had a TSB issued for a buzzing issue related to the speedo. I didn't know that until after the period for claims against the TSB expired. :banghead:

And that's how it works quite a bit.

this.
but if he's inflating book time he's not doing a good service to his customers.

How so? If I'm offering the best services around with the best customer service?

honestly there are 10 other shops in this town

Wow? 10? A whole 10?

no, he's never said that.

he said he QUOTES the customer 2.2 hours, and then bills them 2.2 hours. How is that unethical?

Exactly.

PS, I had to take off Sauto from my ignore list to answer his fucking posts that he can't just put into one post.

[SAUTO]

perhaps he does that instead of charging the 28% for shop supplies....

and that would still be dishonest and illegal.


shop supplies are taxed. labor isnt.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Then you probably aren't qualified to do that particular job.

if the mechanics "book" is anything like a construction cost book, some line items are spot on, others are WILDLY inaccurate. I can't imagine it's any different.

[Frosty]

you people must go to different auto repair places than I do. I never ask the labor rate or the book time. I ask for a price. Period. 2 hours at $80 and 2.2 hours at $72.70 is STILL $160. That's all anyone should give a **** about.

I already said all I care about is bottom line price. However, I have run into a lot of mechanics that bring up the book hours. Also, I know a lot of people that shop by shop rates, which are usually prominently displayed when you walk in the door. Shop rates don't matter if there isn't a standard way in which they are applied.

[SAUTO]

No, I am not.



I adjusted the book times to fit my business of going above and beyond what you could even THINK of as customer service, to guarantee that any work done, does not come back as a fault, or that I am not liable for any issue.

Something you'd be doing in the greater metro area if you had a business here ran purely by the customer service you offer.

But you don't.

You're a small town mom and pop shop that does as much business in a 3 months, as I did in ONE month.

Where I competed with the likes of Goodyear, Firestone, NTB, Calverts (who I later sold the business to), all 5 locations within 5 miles of me, on top of 150 other private, smaller repair shops within the same distance.



I'm a businessman who keeps tabs on EVERYONE, because I don't like to lose.



Then you haven't worked on a fraction of the cars I have, because if you honestly can sit here and say that you've never taken longer than book, you haven't worked on shit by comparison.

No offense.



And that's how it works quite a bit.



How so? If I'm offering the best services around with the best customer service?



Wow? 10? A whole 10?



Exactly.

PS, I had to take off Sauto from my ignore list to answer his fucking posts that he can't just put into one post.you arent actually offering anything.

you dont own a business anymore remember?


and actually you have said multiple times that you mark up the labor times.

[chiefforlife]

you are a guy whose opinion i trust in this situation.


do you mark up your book times by a percentage on every job?

No I do not. But I cant tell you how many shop owners have told me to do so. I just dont think its right, there are plenty of successful guys who do.

The first shop owner that told me about it, my response was, "I didnt know there was a gouge button." He wasnt to happy with me, hehe.

[SAUTO]

and 10 shops in a town that has less that 3000 residents is a pretty crowded marketplace

[mikeyis4dcats.]

i dont charge for shop supplies either.

what i use is listed on the ticket. if we use supplies they are listed right out and charged accordingly.

no shop supplies line on my invoices

you're one of the few, just about every place I've been does.

Take tires, some places charge for shop supplies, others for disposal, some for mounting, some for stems. They're all a way to confuse the customer into thinking their pricing is better. Unethical - no....it's business. It sucks for the customer, but that is on us to be informed and run the numbers.

[SAUTO]

No I do not. But I cant tell you how many shop owners have told me to do so. I just dont think its right, there are plenty of successful guys who do.

The first shop owner that told me about it, my response was, "I didnt know there was a gouge button." He wasnt to happy with me, hehe.

thanks. i agree with you

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I already said all I care about is bottom line price. However, I have run into a lot of mechanics that bring up the book hours. Also, I know a lot of people that shop by shop rates, which are usually prominently displayed when you walk in the door. Shop rates don't matter if there isn't a standard way in which they are applied.

what Exoter is doing IMHO is no different than SAUTO not having shop fees.

Say SAUTO and Shop X both charge $85/hr. SAUTO charges only actual misc. materials, and SHOP X charges 10% for shop fees.

Is that unethical? No. It's a business model. It's no different than an airline charging for baggage.

What is SAUTO charges $85/hr and book times and Shop X charges $93 but quotes book times less 10%?

Is THAT unethical?

All that a customer should pay attention to the bottom line price and the shop's reputation for quality and service.

[Exoter175]

Then you probably aren't qualified to do that particular job.

Most people aren't "qualified" to do most jobs. Sauto isn't qualified for 1/10th the stuff I am, but here he is barking up my tree looking for a biscuit.

But you aren't showing them the same hours that another shop might.

Every shop is different, in all honesty, my hours were probably in the bottom third of the shops in the area. So I adjusted my labor hour to compensate so I wasn't flooded 24/7/365

LOL. my way has kept this shop open longer than BOTH OF YOUR FAILED BUSINESSES. i've got plenty of insurance. pay all bills. hell even have plenty of money in the bank LOL

trust me buddy i know what im doing. i do it by the book and have great mechanics that work under me.

I never failed at any business, we closed down or sold our business to pursue a higher paying, less hour intensive career. Where I get paid three times as much for half the work.


Running a profitable business is not a failure, selling your business to a larger company, is not a failure.

Those are wins, you moron.

perhaps he does that instead of charging the 28% for shop supplies....

I don't charge for shop supplies, I charge for disposal if I need it though.

wait, maybe i need advice from a guy who has ran two into the ground.


and now is posting that he wants to start another.LMAO


i see guys like that quite often.

they take as much money from people as possible then they skip town for a while, then here they are back under a NEW name and do it all again.

I've lived in Olathe all of my life, I still keep in contact with my customers on a daily basis, and I didn't run two into the ground. I closed one down and sold the other.

That isn't running them into the ground, and for the record, the next business I plan to open, isn't automotive related, it is distribution related.

Nice to know you are full of assumptions and false accusations today, must have drank a ton of haterade down there in booneville.


you people must go to different auto repair places than I do. I never ask the labor rate or the book time. I ask for a price. Period. 2 hours at $80 and 2.2 hours at $72.70 is STILL $160. That's all anyone should give a fuck about.

That's how the business works, but sometimes people want to know where the price comes from, so I show them.

i dont charge for shop supplies either.

what i use is listed on the ticket. if we use supplies they are listed right out and charged accordingly.

no shop supplies line on my invoices

Something you do right, shocking!

and that would still be dishonest and illegal.


shop supplies are taxed. labor isnt.

Dishonesty is in the eye of the beholder.

Because I do a better job and charge for it, you call me dishonest, yet my customers would disagree with you.

if the mechanics "book" is anything like a construction cost book, some line items are spot on, others are WILDLY inaccurate. I can't imagine it's any different.

It is wildly inaccurate, which is why half of our jobs were priced on a "per job" basis and not labor hour, but were created with labor hour and book hour in mind, as all are.

[Saul Good]

I want to find a mechanic who says things like "dishonesty is in the eye of the beholder" when referencing his business practices.

[Saul Good]

what Exoter is doing IMHO is no different than SAUTO not having shop fees.

Say SAUTO and Shop X both charge $85/hr. SAUTO charges only actual misc. materials, and SHOP X charges 10% for shop fees.

Is that unethical? No. It's a business model. It's no different than an airline charging for baggage.

What is SAUTO charges $85/hr and book times and Shop X charges $93 but quotes book times less 10%?

Is THAT unethical?

All that a customer should pay attention to the bottom line price and the shop's reputation for quality and service.

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

[Exoter175]

I already said all I care about is bottom line price. However, I have run into a lot of mechanics that bring up the book hours. Also, I know a lot of people that shop by shop rates, which are usually prominently displayed when you walk in the door. Shop rates don't matter if there isn't a standard way in which they are applied.

What I've been trying to preach here, is that there is NO STANDARD to apply, though I have a feeling you mean it for a singular business, but I'll use it abroad.

There is no standard book time, of 9 different software companies who produce books, none of them are the same. I used a book time that was one of the industry's lowest book times, and applied 10% accordingly for my business purpose. It doesn't cost the customer much, but in the end, helps me pay for the "extras" i do for my customers. Its not like I'm adding 10% to the whole bill here.

you arent actually offering anything.

you dont own a business anymore remember?


and actually you have said multiple times that you mark up the labor times.

I don't personally mark up labor times, my software is setup to add 10% to labor times to account for our services. And no, I don't offer anything because my business is sold in the hand of a major company doing business out of the same location I was.

No I do not. But I cant tell you how many shop owners have told me to do so. I just dont think its right, there are plenty of successful guys who do.

The first shop owner that told me about it, my response was, "I didnt know there was a gouge button." He wasnt to happy with me, hehe.

Adding 5 dollars to your labor hour ends up costing the customers more than 10% to labor hours, just an FYI for the time when you might decide to up your labor hour because you need to make money or you need to lower your customer intake.

and 10 shops in a town that has less that 3000 residents is a pretty crowded marketplace

There's like 115 shops in Merriam alone, 10 shops per 3,000 people is at or below the metro average buddy.

[Exoter175]

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

[chiefforlife]

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

No it doesnt. If I bill 4 hours for an intake job and my lead Tech has done a hundred of them and he can do it in three, why should he get paid less because he is really good at it.

Do you know any other job that pays you less the better you become?

Now the marking up of the book time is slightly different, I do believe ethics comes into play if you are doing it on every job but to say I have never marked up book time would not be truthful.

Book time on an exhaust manifold is assuming everything comes apart like it should, there is no additional time for broken exhaust studs, which happens all the time. So I generally give my customer a range on something like that. If the studs dont brake its book time, if they do, it can add quite a bit to the labor.

[chiefforlife]

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

Whether a shop chooses to raise their labor rate or bump their hours or mark up their parts, is up to them. There is no wrong way to do it.

As some mentioned earlier, the price of the job is what you want to shop. Of course if you only shop for price, I guarantee you, you wont find the best shop.

[Exoter175]

No it doesnt. If I bill 4 hours for an intake job and my lead Tech has done a hundred of them and he can do it in three, why should he get paid less because he is really good at it.

Do you know any other job that pays you less the better you become?

Now the marking up of the book time is slightly different, I do believe ethics comes into play if you are doing it on every job but to say I have never marked up book time would not be truthful.

Book time on an exhaust manifold is assuming everything comes apart like it should, there is no additional time for broken exhaust studs, which happens all the time. So I generally give my customer a range on something like that. If the studs dont brake its book time, if they do, it can add quite a bit to the labor.


THANK YOU, somebody who fully understands what I'm talking about here.

This guy truly gets it, I'm buying him a beer.:thumb:

[Exoter175]

Whether a shop chooses to raise their labor rate or bump their hours or mark up their parts, is up to them. There is no wrong way to do it.

As some mentioned earlier, the price of the job is what you want to shop. Of course if you only shop for price, I guarantee you, you wont find the best shop.

The only way to find the best shop is to ask around, and talk with them face to face.

My job, as an owner, manager, and mechanic, was to show YOU what you were paying for. I might not have always been the cheapest, but I was the best, and for GOOD customers, I'd work almost any way I could and bend over backwards for your business.

However, I'm probably not putting a mirror on your car for 20 bucks or less.LMAO

[SAUTO]

No it doesnt. If I bill 4 hours for an intake job and my lead Tech has done a hundred of them and he can do it in three, why should he get paid less because he is really good at it.

Do you know any other job that pays you less the better you become?

Now the marking up of the book time is slightly different, I do believe ethics comes into play if you are doing it on every job but to say I have never marked up book time would not be truthful.

Book time on an exhaust manifold is assuming everything comes apart like it should, there is no additional time for broken exhaust studs, which happens all the time. So I generally give my customer a range on something like that. If the studs dont brake its book time, if they do, it can add quite a bit to the labor.this is entirely true.


but that comes with TRUST.

half the time my customers dont even WANT an estimate. they dont call around to other shops.

they trust me.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

ANYONE who bills lump sum jobs bills for hours not work. Period.

Someone who quotes the book rate and completes the job in less time bills for "hours not worked".

Aren't you an attorney?

[SAUTO]

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

so your mechanics werent good enough to do the jobs in book time?

got it.


and the only perrson assuming anything here is you buddy.

you assume i am what you THINK i am. all the while i have told you exactly what i am.

[Exoter175]

this is entirely true.


but that comes with TRUST.

half the time my customers dont even WANT an estimate. they dont call around to other shops.

they trust me.

And TRUST is exactly what I provide.

ANYONE who bills lump sum jobs bills for hours not work. Period.

Someone who quotes the book rate and completes the job in less time bills for "hours not worked".

Aren't you an attorney?

I think you have him confused with Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad, if this Saul Good were an attorney, formerly insurance adjuster, he's a shit attorney according this argument were' having and his lack of understanding the real word and all of these accusations about "illegal" and "unethical".

[chiefforlife]

The only way to find the best shop is to ask around, and talk with them face to face.

My job, as an owner, manager, and mechanic, was to show YOU what you were paying for. I might not have always been the cheapest, but I was the best, and for GOOD customers, I'd work almost any way I could and bend over backwards for your business.

However, I'm probably not putting a mirror on your car for 20 bucks or less.LMAO

My labor rate is 98.00 an hour. We arent the cheapest but we dont charge what the dealer does either?

[SAUTO]

ANYONE who bills lump sum jobs bills for hours not work. Period.

Someone who quotes the book rate and completes the job in less time bills for "hours not worked".

Aren't you an attorney?

thats not saul's point.


he's talking about the guy inflating book time and charging for it.


if you beat book time good for you its a bonus for the shop and the mechanic.

saul knows this and has stated as such multiple times

[mikeyis4dcats.]

thats not saul's point.


he's talking about the guy inflating book time and charging for it.


if you beat book time good for you its a bonus for the shop and the mechanic.

saul knows this and has stated as such multiple times

so your beef is simply that he bills $80/hr instead of $82/hr?

[SAUTO]

And TRUST is exactly what I provide.



I think you have him confused with Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad, if this Saul Good were an attorney, formerly insurance adjuster, he's a shit attorney according this argument were' having and his lack of understanding the real word and all of these accusations about "illegal" and "unethical".

but those customers that trust you trust that you are charging them according to what the industry standards are.

book time is actually industry standard IMO, thats why every shop buys those over priced things

[SAUTO]

so your beef is simply that he bills $80/hr instead of $82/hr?

my beef is that he marks up the time in his labor guide anywhere from 10- 20%.

[Exoter175]

so your mechanics werent good enough to do the jobs in book time?

got it.


and the only perrson assuming anything here is you buddy.

you assume i am what you THINK i am. all the while i have told you exactly what i am.


No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

but those customers that trust you trust that you are charging them according to what the industry standards are.

book time is actually industry standard IMO, thats why every shop buys those over priced things

it's no different than insurance work for body work. The insurance company goes by the "book", but shops can tweak accordingly.

it may be a guide, but it's not written in stone.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

my beef is that he marks up the time in his labor guide anywhere from 10- 20%.

but would you care so much if his rate was lower than the average rate? you conveniently ignored my questions earlier...

[SAUTO]

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.
lol more assumptions. when there is a person that has been to my shop and can verify everything i have said.

and i expect every job that leaves my shop to be just as it was from the factory. i dont want to be able to pop a hood and see that the vehicle has been worked on. book time accounts for that, and even includes time to clean up after the job...

but you think you need to inflate it

[Exoter175]

My labor rate is 98.00 an hour. We arent the cheapest but we dont charge what the dealer does either?

I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.

thats not saul's point.


he's talking about the guy inflating book time and charging for it.


if you beat book time good for you its a bonus for the shop and the mechanic.

saul knows this and has stated as such multiple times

You don't always beat book time, you don't always do a PERFECT job. I scale my book times by 10% and only 10% to account for doing a PERFECT unrushed job, because my job is to give you perfect work so that you don't have to bring it back 3 days later with a flat tire after I did an engine swap.

so your beef is simply that he bills $80/hr instead of $82/hr?

His beef is that he dislikes the fact that I know how to do business better, that I criticized his work, after he criticized mine in another thread. He's an idiot who works at a mom and pop, I'm a small business entrepreneur who is working towards his third business, while Employed in the same field he is in, making 2-3 times as much as him for half the work at a dealership, and today I have an off day, something he doesn't get because he works at a mom and pop where you never get a day off.

but those customers that trust you trust that you are charging them according to what the industry standards are.

book time is actually industry standard IMO, thats why every shop buys those over priced things


Book time is not an industry standard you fucking moron, if it were, all 9 competing software companies would have the same book numbers, and they don't.
my beef is that he marks up the time in his labor guide anywhere from 10- 20%.

I mark up my labor guide by 10% using an industry low book time, to account for the work that was being done at my shop, which was second to none.

If you don't like that, don't bring your car to any of my current or future businesses, but rest assured, I am not GOUGING you on price, I'm making sure your car is done right the first time, and you don't have to bring it back next week for something we fucked up.

[SAUTO]

but would you care so much if his rate was lower than the average rate? you conveniently ignored my questions earlier...

i dont know what questions you are referring.

im posting while making tickets, in between customers, ordering parts, and doing a couple alignments.

i think that shops that arent honest give all shops a bad name.

dont inflate labor times because you want it to appear that your labor rate is lower.

what happens when you charge a guy 2.2 hours for a job that calls for 2 hours?

probably nothing. but some day they might find out it only calls for 2 hours.and then you are dishonest.

then all shops are thrown under that label.

its happens and is something us reputable shops are left to deal with on a regular basis

[Exoter175]

it's no different than insurance work for body work. The insurance company goes by the "book", but shops can tweak accordingly.

it may be a guide, but it's not written in stone.

Precisely, because there is no industry standard at all.

but would you care so much if his rate was lower than the average rate? you conveniently ignored my questions earlier...

He conveniently ignores questions for days when he realizes what he is about to answer, contradicts his argument. He does this all the time.

lol more assumptions. when there is a person that has been to my shop and can verify everything i have said.

and i expect every job that leaves my shop to be just as it was from the factory. i dont want to be able to pop a hood and see that the vehicle has been worked on. book time accounts for that, and even includes time to clean up after the job...

but you think you need to inflate it

Because My guys do better work, thorough work, and I offer more conveniences, more accommodations than you do.

I simply run a better business Sauto, you can disagree with that all you want, but you don't have a business in the metro, you don't compete with hundreds of shops and dealerships for business.

My prices were great, lower than just about everyone, I did better work than everyone, and I was much more flexible in pay, and in scheduling than those around me.

I knocked that motherfucker out of the park with every customer, and not once had a problem, ever.

You might say the same in your backwoods mom and pop, but you didn't do it here in the metro, so your opinion means nothing to me when you're in a different demographic with different competition.

[SAUTO]

I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.



You don't always beat book time, you don't always do a PERFECT job. I scale my book times by 10% and only 10% to account for doing a PERFECT unrushed job, because my job is to give you perfect work so that you don't have to bring it back 3 days later with a flat tire after I did an engine swap.



His beef is that he dislikes the fact that I know how to do business better, that I criticized his work, after he criticized mine in another thread. He's an idiot who works at a mom and pop, I'm a small business entrepreneur who is working towards his third business, while Employed in the same field he is in, making 2-3 times as much as him for half the work at a dealership, and today I have an off day, something he doesn't get because he works at a mom and pop where you never get a day off.




Book time is not an industry standard you fucking moron, if it were, all 9 competing software companies would have the same book numbers, and they don't.


I mark up my labor guide by 10% using an industry low book time, to account for the work that was being done at my shop, which was second to none.

If you don't like that, don't bring your car to any of my current or future businesses, but rest assured, I am not GOUGING you on price, I'm making sure your car is done right the first time, and you don't have to bring it back next week for something we fucked up.shit i had all weekend off.

another assumption.


and when i put that motor in the car had been here 2 weeks waiting on them to get the money. tire never went flat.

but they ran over a screw from the new roof they had put on last week and now it did.

im sure you would have caught that with your super powers and fixed it prior to it happening,.


BTW her husband just stopped and paid for it. he's a smart guy

[SAUTO]

Precisely, because there is no industry standard at all.



He conveniently ignores questions for days when he realizes what he is about to answer, contradicts his argument. He does this all the time.



Because My guys do better work, thorough work, and I offer more conveniences, more accommodations than you do.

I simply run a better business Sauto, you can disagree with that all you want, but you don't have a business in the metro, you don't compete with hundreds of shops and dealerships for business.

My prices were great, lower than just about everyone, I did better work than everyone, and I was much more flexible in pay, and in scheduling than those around me.

I knocked that motherfucker out of the park with every customer, and not once had a problem, ever.

You might say the same in your backwoods mom and pop, but you didn't do it here in the metro, so your opinion means nothing to me when you're in a different demographic with different competition.i missed his questions.

a guy who has failed 2 times doesnt hold much water in my book either.

and i guarantee you do not make 3 times what i do.

LMAO

[Exoter175]

i dont know what questions you are referring.

im posting while making tickets, in between customers, ordering parts, and doing a couple alignments.

i think that shops that arent honest give all shops a bad name.

dont inflate labor times because you want it to appear that your labor rate is lower.

what happens when you charge a guy 2.2 hours for a job that calls for 2 hours?

probably nothing. but some day they might find out it only calls for 2 hours.and then you are dishonest.

then all shops are thrown under that label.

its happens and is something us reputable shops are left to deal with on a regular basis

How is that dishonest if you walked them through it and they signed a contract?

You didn't take money from them without them knowing.

How is charging 10% more labor hours on book dishonest, if it isn't an industry standard?

How is charging 10% more labor hours on a software book that is 10% below industry standard, dishonest?

You're comparing apples to orangutans here.

All because you fervently want to give me a bad name on this forum, because I opposed your knowledge because I am more qualified to do your work.

To quote you, you called me "An over-educated knowitall".

What's wrong with being educated and knowing the absolute ins and outs of your business?

To me, its more dishonest to NOT know how to run your business effectively than it would be to increase your book hour by 10% to make sure the quality of work is TOP NOTCH.

[Exoter175]

shit i had all weekend off.

another assumption.


and when i put that motor in the car had been here 2 weeks waiting on them to get the money. tire never went flat.

but they ran over a screw from the new roof they had put on last week and now it did.

im sure you would have caught that with your super powers and fixed it prior to it happening,.


BTW her husband just stopped and paid for it. he's a smart guy

Whose new roof? If it was yours, you were liable for it.

Also, you aren't nearly as busy as you make it out to be, coming from someone who ran the same business you do, I NEVER got time off. I worked 6.5 days a week non stop, with only holidays off.

Granted, I'm in the metro, and you are in the sticks, but time is time. How can you be so booked and get time off AND post on the forums being so swamped?

Sounds to me like you might have the cars out front, but not nearly enough work to do as you'd like us to believe.

i missed his questions.

a guy who has failed 2 times doesnt hold much water in my book either.

and i guarantee you do not make 3 times what i do.

LMAO

So you believe that running a profitable business is a failure? Or selling a business on a profit is a failure?

This question needs answered immediately.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

this thread has reached the level of idiocracy as a thread on another forum I frequent where a poster steadfastly argued for dozens of pages that a woman was unethical for selling her used appliances on Craiglist for more than what she paid for them (even though she paid hundreds less than retail).

[chiefforlife]

[QUOTE=Exoter175;9486173]I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.



No not a troll post, just stating where I choose to make it, in my labor rate. I realize people shop labor rate but we sell them on quality of parts, service and technicians.

[SAUTO]

I take time off.
People have to wait. I have a family and refuse to kill myself to fix cars. I'm every bit as busy and normally BUSIER than I want to be

I believe you are a failure in business.I don't believe a word you say about it. How's that?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

[QUOTE=Exoter175;9486173]I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.



No not a troll post, just stating where I choose to make it, in my labor rate. I realize people shop labor rate but we sell them on quality of parts, service and technicians.

Well, I think what most people don't understand is that there is no Industry standard on book time, and no industry standard on labor hour, and that you can change either of them at any time, at will, for any purpose.

There will be guys out there who inflate them solely to make a profit, in fact, most shops will do it just to make a profit. I personally set my labor rate high because I've got a lot of overhead for a small time shop, but I didn't want to get swamped.

I got swamped.

[chiefforlife]

The labor guide is just that, a guide. It is not the Bible. Plenty of shops change labor rates on certain jobs, and some change it on all jobs. I choose to stick to it as closely as possible.
I can tell you that many times Mitchell will say 6 hours and All Data will say 8. Is one guy being dishonest because he uses All Data?

[Exoter175]

I take time off.
People have to wait. I have a family and refuse to kill myself to fix cars. I'm every bit as busy and normally BUSIER than I want to be

I believe you are a failure in business.I don't believe a word you say about it. How's that?
Posted via Mobile Device

That didn't answer my question.

Does running two profitable businesses and selling one for a profit constitute a failure?

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I know nothing about Exoter, never even saw his name before this thread, but just because someone's business has failed does not mean they are not a good person, qualified, or unethical.

I know many, many good contractors that have closed up due to various reasons, many beyond their immediate control. Some simply because they were too nice and didn't charge enough, or didn't understand that there is a much higher cost to keep the doors open that the actual costs of work.

[Exoter175]

The labor guide is just that, a guide. It is not the Bible. Plenty of shops change labor rates on certain jobs, and some change it on all jobs. I choose to stick to it as closely as possible.
I can tell you that many times Mitchell will say 6 hours and All Data will say 8. Is one guy being dishonest because he uses All Data?

And that's exactly what I'm getting at.

If I choose a labor guide that is 10% below industry average, and then raise my labor hours by 10% because I like the functionality of that software more, does that make me unethical? Despite the top 2/3rds of the industry average softwares charging you more than my 10%?

[loochy]

Summary:

Hootie is a bad person.
Extorter is a bad person.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

The labor guide is just that, a guide. It is not the Bible. Plenty of shops change labor rates on certain jobs, and some change it on all jobs. I choose to stick to it as closely as possible.
I can tell you that many times Mitchell will say 6 hours and All Data will say 8. Is one guy being dishonest because he uses All Data?

apparently...

I think SAUTO is clouded by his prior judgement of the OP.

Not sure what Saul's issue is unless it is the ethics of billing as it relates to the legal profession. Double-billing is a rampant (and unethical) practice, so he may see this as similar, even though it's not at all.

[Exoter175]

Summary:

Hootie is a bad person.
Extorter is a bad person.

:#

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Summary:

Hootie is a bad person.
Extorter is a bad person.

by extrapolation, are you saying Hootie= Extorter? :cuss: :evil:

[SAUTO]

Lol this guy has owned two businesses and closed the first went to school opened another then was too good and sold it because he worked too hard and was too busy but wanted to make more money and be able to do whatever he WANTS WHILE WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE. lol how does that happen with a boss.

But yet now is going to open another business because he just wants to.

Dude I hope your don't think we are all not stupid enough to buy the bullshit you are selling.


Baffle em with bullshit.

That's why I don't work in a dealership anymore. They liked to baffle people with bullshit, you fit right in there
Posted via Mobile Device

[loochy]

:#
LMAO

by extrapolation, are you saying Hootie= Extorter? :cuss: :evil:

They can't be because they are trying to rip each other off

[Exoter175]

apparently...

I think SAUTO is clouded by his prior judgement of the OP.

Not sure what Saul's issue is unless it is the ethics of billing as it relates to the legal profession. Double-billing is a rampant (and unethical) practice, so he may see this as similar, even though it's not at all.

I call it how I see it.

This is how it all happened.

I posted what not to do in a thread
Sauto posted in it
I corrected him
He got mad and argued that I was being too cautious and specific
I argued that precision and caution matter when working on something that could cause a loss of life.
Sauto got on my case
Saul backed Sauto up
I got on Sauto's case for making claims he couldn't prove
Saul backed Sauto up
Sauto never backed claims up
this thread

Saul isn't on my case for any legal or unethical practice reason, he's on my case because his buddy Sauto is here, that's that.

[Exoter175]

by extrapolation, are you saying Hootie= Extorter? :cuss: :evil:

No, I"m supposed to be some other guy's multi, I can't remember the name at the moment.

Lol this guy has owned two businesses and closed the first went to school opened another then was too good and sold it because he worked too hard and was too busy but wanted to make more money and be able to do whatever he WANTS WHILE WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE. lol how does that happen with a boss.

But yet now is going to open another business because he just wants to.

Dude I hope your don't think we are all not stupid enough to buy the bullshit you are selling.


Baffle em with bullshit.

That's why I don't work in a dealership anymore. They liked to baffle people with bullshit, you fit right in there
Posted via Mobile Device

Straight from the horses mouth, I was successful, furthered my education, became more successful, want to create YET another business, and somehow I'm a business failure while running two profitable businesses, going to school, and selling the other to take a higher paying job, which is WHY I WENT TO SCHOOL IN THE FIRST PLACE, and how he faults me?


Sauto, You're really smart.

(Probably the first time he's been accused of that one)

[SAUTO]

The labor guide is just that, a guide. It is not the Bible. Plenty of shops change labor rates on certain jobs, and some change it on all jobs. I choose to stick to it as closely as possible.
I can tell you that many times Mitchell will say 6 hours and All Data will say 8. Is one guy being dishonest because he uses All Data?
If that's the book you go by? Nope.

But to artificially inflate times just because is wrong IMO.

Obviously you feel the same or you wouldn't have asked where the gouge button was lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

If that's the book you go by? Nope.

But to artificially inflate times just because is wrong IMO.

Obviously you feel the same or you wouldn't have asked where the gouge button was lol
Posted via Mobile Device

Yet he knows that each piece of software has a different book time, and who is to say he hasn't used both or used one for a more "accurate" *higher paying* book time?

Nobody, that comes down to honesty.

Its one thing to use the highest book software, and adjust it by 10%, its another to use one of the lowest due to functionality, and adjust by 10%, keeping it lower than 2/3rds of the book times out there still.

Call me a bad man, because I'm going to price rape you at every corner!

[SAUTO]

I call it how I see it.

This is how it all happened.

I posted what not to do in a thread
Sauto posted in it
I corrected him
He got mad and argued that I was being too cautious and specific
I argued that precision and caution matter when working on something that could cause a loss of life.
Sauto got on my case
Saul backed Sauto up
I got on Sauto's case for making claims he couldn't prove
Saul backed Sauto up
Sauto never backed claims up
this thread

Saul isn't on my case for any legal or unethical practice reason, he's on my case because his buddy Sauto is here, that's that. Saul and I aren't "buddies" .

I can back up everything I say, just don't see the need for someone like you lol. And you are the one who said 1/8" on a brake line is critical ROFL
Posted via Mobile Device

[notorious]

sigh.

[Exoter175]

Saul and I aren't "buddies" .

I can back up everything I say, just don't see the need for someone like you lol. And you are the one who said 1/8" on a brake line is critical ROFL
Posted via Mobile Device

I like to do the right job, you apparently don't. That's what it came down to.

1/8th off a brake line isn't how it came off the showroom floor like you touted about 4-5 pages back. Seems contradictory.

And of course you'd tell me that you have the credentials, but don't need to "prove them" to anyone else.

It still doesn't make them real, buddy.:thumb:

And considering you couldn't tell me which tests you take for your "master tech", something you'd know by heart, Yeah, I'd prone to call bullshit on them as somebody who is well versed in the ASE world.


Which is worse?

Adjust book hours by 10% more? Or falsely hanging an ASE sign at your shop and telling people you are, in fact, ASE certified in a field you aren't certified in?

How's that for ethics asshole?

[SAUTO]

Well douche I've actually got the certificates hanging.

And I don't even have the ase sign on the outside of my building. No need. It doesn't mean shit.

I only got the certs sure to the fact a dealership will pay out the ass got you to get them.

And you must just not fix brake lines. Because no one doing them at a shop had the machine to make them exactly factory type.


Not even you buddy
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

Well douche I've actually got the certificates hanging.

And I don't even have the ase sign on the outside of my building. No need. It doesn't mean shit.

I only got the certs sure to the fact a dealership will pay out the ass got you to get them.

And you must just not fix brake lines. Because no one doing them at a shop had the machine to make them exactly factory type.


Not even you buddy
Posted via Mobile Device

All I hear is bullshit and excuses coming out of your mouth dude.

I think we're done here.

Hit me up in a month when you want another schooling in business, I'll be sure to make you a pop up book with pictures so you can follow along with the adults.:thumb:

Don't suppose you know anything about wholesale, liquidations, and distributions do you? I don't want to have another profitable business failure on my hands here.

[SAUTO]

And if you knew half as much about ase as you claim I gave enough hints at what tests I didn't need to take to be master certified that you would know that I was legit.

Just like the ford brake system you didn't know, but you work on fords every day.


One person is full of shit and it damn sure is not me. Hell another poster that had met quite a few people here even stated what I have said is true in regards to my shop. He knows because he's been there multiple times and lives over an hour away.
Posted via Mobile Device

[chiefforlife]

If that's the book you go by? Nope.

But to artificially inflate times just because is wrong IMO.

Obviously you feel the same or you wouldn't have asked where the gouge button was lol
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, thats why I just put it in my labor rate. Id rather be a little more up front about the price.

However I dont fault exorter for doing it his way. I know plenty of shop owners who do it that way and they are good guys.

[SAUTO]

All I hear is bullshit and excuses coming out of your mouth dude.

I think we're done here.

Hit me up in a month when you want another schooling in business, I'll be sure to make you a pop up book with pictures so you can follow along with the adults.:thumb:

Don't suppose you know anything about wholesale, liquidations, and distributions do you? I don't want to have another profitable business failure on my hands here.
All those degrees in auto aren't going to help much with that...


One of us has owned several businesses and they are no longer in operation.and is now trying to start another after going to work in a dealership to make more money. Lol

One of us has a successful business that works every day.

Which knows more about business?
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Yeah, thats why I just put it in my labor rate. Id rather be a little more up front about the price.

However I dont fault exorter for doing it his way. I know plenty of shop owners who do it that way and they are good guys.
I agree with the way you do it. Anything else just doesn't seem right. Why try to make the customer FEEL like they got a great deal? Why not just give them one?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bwana]

:spock:

http://www.ground-zero.biz/images/smilies/Energizer_Bunny_animated.gif

[chiefforlife]

Did this thread just fizzle out?

I love talking to other shop owners and Techs...Darn.

[AustinChief]

My $.02.. there is a REASON mechanics are generally seen as scumbag ripoff artists. That stereotype didn't just appear out of thin air. Defending something as common practice in that industry is not a glowing endorsement.

Oh and I have a funny "Mexican" story to add for Hootie's benefit...

I called a tiny little tire place that was down the street and asked if they could fix a wheel that had a bent rim that was causing the tire to leak. The guy on the phone barely spoke english but I gathered that he was saying yes, just to swing by. So I told him what car I was driving ('66 Impala) and to expect me in a few minutes. Now here if the funny part... I pulled up and stopped the car in front of the what appeared to be the head guy outside. He motioned to some other dudes and BY THE TIME I STEPPED OUT of my car they had the wheel off. I shit you not. I closed the door and walked up to the guy and they had the tire off and were banging away at the wheel. A total of 5 minutes later and my wheel was fixed and back on my car and I asked the guy how much I owed him and he said... twelve. I gave him a $20 and drove away happy as a clam. Fantastic experience. Have sent them a ton of business since. Still cracks me up that the fuckers jacked my car up and took the wheel off before I was even out of the car!

[Exoter175]

And if you knew half as much about ase as you claim I gave enough hints at what tests I didn't need to take to be master certified that you would know that I was legit.

Just like the ford brake system you didn't know, but you work on fords every day.


One person is full of shit and it damn sure is not me. Hell another poster that had met quite a few people here even stated what I have said is true in regards to my shop. He knows because he's been there multiple times and lives over an hour away.
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't disagree with you, you were asking a specific question without giving me specific information. You can't fault the student for a terrible lesson.

I mean, if you want to battle wits over cars, I'll gladly oblige you, it shouldn't take long :thumb:

Yeah, thats why I just put it in my labor rate. Id rather be a little more up front about the price.

However I dont fault exorter for doing it his way. I know plenty of shop owners who do it that way and they are good guys.

There's a few ways to skin a rabbit, all that matters is that you aren't trying to cheat your customers.:thumb:

All those degrees in auto aren't going to help much with that...


One of us has owned several businesses and they are no longer in operation.and is now trying to start another after going to work in a dealership to make more money. Lol

One of us has a successful business that works every day.

Which knows more about business?
Posted via Mobile Device

They are no longer in operation? Yeah, Calverts buys shops and closes them down. You sure do know your stuff.LMAO:LOL:

One of us went to school for an automotive degree, one of us got one, one of us has more than 10 ASE certifications, and more than 4 different certifications through dealerships, including 3 training program certificates from Honda alone.

One of us ran a business so we could go through college to do this, one of us didn't.

I wonder, who is the one who got an education, started his own business from the ground up and ran profitably, closed it to get MORE education, started another business, ran it profitably, sold it to another company and took a higher paying job.

One of us actually started multiple successful businesses.

One of us actually started a business from the ground up.

Do you know who that person was?

It wasn't you.

Yet you think you know more about business than I do?

Dude, put the pipe down.....

I agree with the way you do it. Anything else just doesn't seem right. Why try to make the customer FEEL like they got a great deal? Why not just give them one?
Posted via Mobile Device

Who says you aren't giving the customer a great deal the other way?

[Saul Good]

My $.02.. there is a REASON mechanics are generally seen as scumbag ripoff artists. That stereotype didn't just appear out of thin air. Defending something as common practice in that industry is not a glowing endorsement.

Oh and I have a funny "Mexican" story to add for Hootie's benefit...

I called a tiny little tire place that was down the street and asked if they could fix a wheel that had a bent rim that was causing the tire to leak. The guy on the phone barely spoke english but I gathered that he was saying yes, just to swing by. So I told him what car I was driving ('66 Impala) and to expect me in a few minutes. Now here if the funny part... I pulled up and stopped the car in front of the what appeared to be the head guy outside. He motioned to some other dudes and BY THE TIME I STEPPED OUT of my car they had the wheel off. I shit you not. I closed the door and walked up to the guy and they had the tire off and were banging away at the wheel. A total of 5 minutes later and my wheel was fixed and back on my car and I asked the guy how much I owed him and he said... twelve. I gave him a $20 and drove away happy as a clam. Fantastic experience. Have sent them a ton of business since. Still cracks me up that the ****ers jacked my car up and took the wheel off before I was even out of the car!

Don't use those guys. They don't understand business or something.

[SAUTO]

Wait wut?

You drive a 66?
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Hell there goes another assumption. I didn't start from the ground up. The business was just magically there.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

And see I have a ton of certs from GM. I used to be a lead tech at a very high profile dealership in kc. But you assumed I don't have them
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

My $.02.. there is a REASON mechanics are generally seen as scumbag ripoff artists. That stereotype didn't just appear out of thin air. Defending something as common practice in that industry is not a glowing endorsement.

Oh and I have a funny "Mexican" story to add for Hootie's benefit...

I called a tiny little tire place that was down the street and asked if they could fix a wheel that had a bent rim that was causing the tire to leak. The guy on the phone barely spoke english but I gathered that he was saying yes, just to swing by. So I told him what car I was driving ('66 Impala) and to expect me in a few minutes. Now here if the funny part... I pulled up and stopped the car in front of the what appeared to be the head guy outside. He motioned to some other dudes and BY THE TIME I STEPPED OUT of my car they had the wheel off. I shit you not. I closed the door and walked up to the guy and they had the tire off and were banging away at the wheel. A total of 5 minutes later and my wheel was fixed and back on my car and I asked the guy how much I owed him and he said... twelve. I gave him a $20 and drove away happy as a clam. Fantastic experience. Have sent them a ton of business since. Still cracks me up that the fuckers jacked my car up and took the wheel off before I was even out of the car!

I can't find the inverse of that, but a link came across my facebook the other day about a mobile mechanic from seattle I think, and doing unmentionable things to this guys' truck all to fix a heatercore, and it included pictures. I wish I had the link to show here.

[SAUTO]

One of us is a liar, and it's not me.

You closed a busy shop where you had to work 6.5 days a week and charged 10 to 20 percent OVER the book time and went to a dealership to work and made more money?

Lying somewhere you are
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

Hell there goes another assumption. I didn't start from the ground up. The business was just magically there.
Posted via Mobile Device

You are the king of assumptions dude, you started it by assuming I failed, and just went all willy nilly tossing out assumptions left and right, yet I am not allowed to even toss one out?

I'm betting that you didn't start your own business, that someone else had that location before you and you bought them out, or took it over, or worked your way up the chain to own it.

You don't seem smart enough to be able to work up a business plan, let alone get the ball rolling on actually opening a business.

Then again you work in the sticks, so maybe you don't need to be a smart businessman to be successful out there, but out here, you do. Come open up a shop and KC and see how long you last Sauto, you'd be surprised how fast the door gets shut on you with your business approach.

And see I have a ton of certs from GM. I used to be a lead tech at a very high profile dealership in kc. But you assumed I don't have them
Posted via Mobile Device

You keep saying this, but you never prove it.

But then, you tell me to prove mine, after I've asked you, with the conclusion being that you'd answer mine finally.

Life doesn't work that way, and you're a fraud in my eyes. Deal with it, swallow it, move on.

At the end of the day, I've got more education, more certifications, more credentials than you do, and I've started more successful businesses, made more money, and currently have a higher paying job than you.

Yet you tell me I'm a business failure.

How does that even compute? Are you even making these claims with a straight face?

Its okay to admit when you're trolling Sauto.

[Exoter175]

One of us is a liar, and it's not me.

You closed a busy shop where you had to work 6.5 days a week and charged 10 to 20 percent OVER the book time and went to a dealership to work and made more money?

Lying somewhere you are
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't charge 10% OVER book, I increased Book 10%, there is a difference.

So far, I've been pretty transparent, so obviously I'm not the liar, shadetree.

[SAUTO]

Lol so I need to put all my private info out there for you?

Lmao. Buddy.

You are the troll here. Not me.

There have been multiple people from here that have been to my shop. Hell I can't even remember one poster's screen name but I know his real name. One has even vouched for me.

I'm not lying. You have hidden behind that keyboard and asked me to give you personal stuff. No one would do that.

If I didn't have a family I would have no issues with giving you everything. But I don't trust liars. I have more to worry about in this life than just myself.


You can fuck off on that front.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

I didn't charge 10% OVER book, I increased Book 10%, there is a difference.

So far, I've been pretty transparent, so obviously I'm not the liar, shadetree. 10 percent over book would be increasing book time 10 percent. To anyone with any common sense at least
Posted via Mobile Device

[chiefforlife]

Look I have talked with Jason enough to know he is a very good guy. We need those in this business and I think most people would be surprised at how many GOOD guys there are in this business.

Exoter isnt a bad guy I think he divulged to much info for the average consumer and is getting a bad rap because of it.

If you call one shop who's labor rate is 80.00 an hour and you call another shop who's labor rate is 95.00 an hour but they both quote you 1200.00 for the job, whats the difference?

People do shop labor rates and that is what drives some shops to keep the labor rate low and pad the hours.

A shop has to make money to survive, dont hate them for it.

[Exoter175]

Lol so I need to put all my private info out there for you?

Lmao. Buddy.

You are the troll here. Not me.

There have been multiple people from here that have been to my shop. Hell I can't even remember one poster's screen name but I know his real name. One has even vouched for me.

I'm not lying. You have hidden behind that keyboard and asked me to give you personal stuff. No one would do that.

If I didn't have a family I would have no issues with giving you everything. But I don't trust liars. I have more to worry about in this life than just myself.


You can fuck off on that front.
Posted via Mobile Device

You act like I asked you for your credit card, I asked you WHO you worked for, AFTER you made big claims that you were the lead tech at one of the busiest GM dealerships in KC. That isn't really personal info.

All you've done is attack me, so sorry for asking you to back up your talk when I find that it doesn't coincide with reason, to someone who's actually done what you claim.

I would have laughed hard had you "named" a certain dealership that I'm thinking about right now, because I'd get to the bottom of it within minutes since I know the service manager and owners personally.

Here's to hoping the next time we argue, you name the dealership so I can shoot you down lol.

10 percent over book would be increasing book time 10 percent. To anyone with any common sense at least
Posted via Mobile Device

10 percent OVER book is not the same thing as increasing the book time by 10 percentage.

There's a very big difference between the two.

[Exoter175]

Look I have talked with Jason enough to know he is a very good guy. We need those in this business and I think most people would be surprised at how many GOOD guys there are in this business.

Exoter isnt a bad guy I think he divulged to much info for the average consumer and is getting a bad rap because of it.

If you call one shop who's labor rate is 80.00 an hour and you call another shop who's labor rate is 95.00 an hour but they both quote you 1200.00 for the job, whats the difference?

People do shop labor rates and that is what drives some shops to keep the labor rate low and pad the hours.

A shop has to make money to survive, dont hate them for it.

Its all apples and oranges to everyone, all I'm trying to do here is educate the masses, Jason's just trying to talk shit. Its all he does. Perhaps he's trying to conceal his own practices, who knows.

[SAUTO]

10 percent over book time would be increasing the time by 10 percent. I can't see where a debate would be there.
Posted via Mobile Device

[seclark]

so, did hootie ever get his fuckin mirror fixed, or what? and what did he pay?
sec

[seclark]

if i have to, i'll kick the cocksucker off again.
sec

[SAUTO]

Its all apples and oranges to everyone, all I'm trying to do here is educate the masses, Jason's just trying to talk shit. Its all he does. Perhaps he's trying to conceal his own practices, who knows.

What practices would those be?

You claimed a certain labor rate. It was low so if a customer called rate shopping they would come to you. THEN you inflate book time to make up for it.


Me? I give them a labor rate and then stick to book time, when I use the book most jobs I can quote while talking to a customer.

Which is the honest way?
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

And the dealers I do business with trust me to fix anything that is safety related. No call required.


That's trust
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

10 percent over book time would be increasing the time by 10 percent. I can't see where a debate would be there.
Posted via Mobile Device

Except for I'm not charging 10 percent over book, which is what you don't understand.

so, did hootie ever get his fuckin mirror fixed, or what? and what did he pay?
sec

He got stabbed by a Mexican, had his wallet and car stolen, and we haven't heard from him.

What practices would those be?

You claimed a certain labor rate. It was low so if a customer called rate shopping they would come to you. THEN you inflate book time to make up for it.


Me? I give them a labor rate and then stick to book time, when I use the book most jobs I can quote while talking to a customer.

Which is the honest way?
Posted via Mobile Device

No, I wouldn't. Jesus you are fucking stupid.

And the dealers I do business with trust me to fix anything that is safety related. No call required.


That's trust
Posted via Mobile Device

And so did mine, your point?

[SAUTO]

Really? You claimed you had a low labor rate, yet you inflated the book times 10 to 20 percent. You words dude. You typed them.

That isn't fully honest. No matter what you claim
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

Really? You claimed you had a low labor rate, yet you inflated the book times 10 to 20 percent. You words dude. You typed them.

That isn't fully honest. No matter what you claim
Posted via Mobile Device

Did I type them?

Exactly as you said?


I'm pretty sure that if you read through it all, my words state that my book prices were scaled up 10% to account for my accommodations, my thoroughness, and to bring that number closer to the industry average, as I was using a bottom third program according to comparable numbers.

Nothing about that is dishonest at all.

I never once stated that I changed my labor rate, ever, or at all, my labor rate was always the same.

From day 1 of every business I have opened so far, which is two more than you have, my book hours were set on day 1, and labor rate was set on day 1.

To be honest, my labor rate was set before I moved into the location.

I never once changed the rate or the book scale, I never once altered or adjusted a customers bill without their consent to do so.

I honor my contracts and the customers get exactly what they pay for, excellent work, excellent service, and an affordable price.


Seriously, do yourself a favor and find a way to gain a few more points of intelligence, and then read this thread again.

If your brain is even possible of comprehending what I am telling you, even at the most basic level, you'll hopefully understand that what I am telling you is a business practice that almost every business does, that there is absolutely NOTHING dishonest about it, at all.

In all actuality, chances are that you and I run two different programs, and I run one that runs a much leaner book than you do, and you might run a much fatter book than I do, which would account for why you say that you've never ran over book time, and I have.

Take this as an example.

I run program A, you run program B.

To do an Intake Manifold Gasket, your book calls for 3.0 hours standard, mine for 2.5 hours standard. Since my book is adjust for 10% more labor hour, my new book hours are 2.75, to your 3.0

If our labor rates were equal, which I'd guess you'd be near my mark if you were in the metro, I'd be cheaper than you, providing better work, better customer service, and an overall better experience.

Yet you'd call me dishonest.


Jason, trust me when I tell you this, I'm smarter than you when it comes to business. There is more of a chance that you simply do not comprehend the business world as well as I do, and thus you are confused, but make no mistake about this, my practice is not dishonest, nor is the way I adjust MY business to fit MY needs so I can pass YOU the savings on MY work.

Get it?

If by this point you aren't completely convinced and in full acknowledgement that my practices are legal, sound, and incredibly honest, then perhaps you are too closed minded and judgmental for this argument, which is probably why that "country life" you spoke of, suits you better. This is a world of adaption and change, especially in business, and I seem to be the one pioneering great change, while you're sitting there on your new fangled broadband connection arguing with me about how the earth is still flat.

If you have a point, make it, if not, then this is nothing but a pissing match and I've got a much bigger dog in this fight than you do, so lets move on shall we? Before Saul comes in here re-reads 15 pages of posts and tries to rekindle an argument on the grounds that he wants to argue about something I mistyped earlier.

[SAUTO]

I'm not reading all that.

You can't understand simple points.

You stated you would raise book time 10 to 20 percent.

I didn't state you changed your labor rate.


You advertised a low labor rate to get the customers through the door.

THEN you inflate the labor hours top make up for it.


That's not totally honest
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

You sit here and say you didn't expect it, but you call it unreasonable and call them crooks for not doing it for 20 dollars or less.

You still do not UNDERSTAND the point everyone is driving across to you. This is a business, not a charity, kid. You might have a shitty car you don't appreciate, knowing that it'll cost a ton to fix later on, but in the eyes of a mechanic, your car is just like the next Mercedes that pulls up. Its going to cost you the same labor hour that it'll cost on the Mercedes. Why in the actual fuck would you ever assume that the state of your car has anything to do with how much I'm going to charge you?

Which brings me to my second point.

Labor Hour. If you don't understand what Labor Hour is, or what it means, you shouldn't be dictating price.

Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Why? Because its going to cost me 400+ per day to have this building with these tools, with these employees, with the insurance to cover all of them, just to be in business. I have to make my money somewhere, and where I make it is labor hour, and parts.

Since you are bringing in a part I can't mark up, I ONLY make money on the labor hour, where I'm less likely to discount you on.

If you don't like the costs associated with running a business and having work done by professionals, use your mexicans, but understand there is nothing Constitutional or Patriotic about what you are doing, and you are only hurting the economy because you are a cheap fuck.



And this is why you're a moron. Entitled? No. Lawful and helpful to the economy? Yes.

You say reasonable to a Mexican for 20 bucks, I see liability, economic downturn, and a cheapskate.

You're all full of negativity but understand this, when they fuck up something on your car, you have no ability to go after them for damages, and they won't be paying you back for their mistakes. If you did it at my shop, you'd be taken care of because you get what you pay for, and with a business, by law, I'm supposed to take care of you if I fuck up.


.
This. But, as I've said, labor hour is labor hour. It doesn't go up or down depending on the condition of the car being worked on.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Your words are up there.

No where did you mention the book you use pays lower than all other bold, which is bullshit I have them and where one shorts you it makes it up on other jobs, or any of the other bullshit I have made up since this post.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

I'm not reading all that.

You can't understand simple points.

You stated you would raise book time 10 to 20 percent.

I didn't state you changed your labor rate.


You advertised a low labor rate to get the customers through the door.

THEN you inflate the labor hours top make up for it.


That's not totally honest
Posted via Mobile Device

When did I ever state, or imply that I advertise a lower labor rate to get people into the door, only to inflate the labor hours to make up for it?

Please, do yourself the due diligence of finding those words in ANY of my replies before you speak again.

I'll give you a hint, I didn't.

Your words are up there.

No where did you mention the book you use pays lower than all other bold, which is bullshit I have them and where one shorts you it makes it up on other jobs, or any of the other bullshit I have made up since this post.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nowhere did I mention the phrase "I run my business this way, or this is how I have ran my business".

I was giving the guy a hypothetical scenario of what most businesses will do in this case, and using myself as the hypothetical business, explaining to him how HE the customer and I the owner would operate.

I however was not implying that I PERSONALLY would do this AT MY BUSINESS.

Just explaining to the guy who has NO CLUE WHATSOEVER how this industry works, how things will go for him.

You tell me that I have a problem reading or accepting points.

How many times now have I mentioned that the aforementioned quote was a hypothetical?

How many times now have I mentioned EXACTLY HOW I PERSONALLY RUN MY BUSINESS?

Have I not made it crystal fucking clear with you, that my increase is 10% on one of the industry's lowest software books, and that the increase doesn't even raise me out of the top 2/3rds of those books?


Do yourself a favor, catch a clue, buy a clue, for all sakes, STEAL a clue, but you just don't get it.

At all.

Even when I explain to you EXACTLY how this works, you ignore it.

Not more than a page or two ago I explained to you that from day 1 my labor hour markup was set, and my labor rate was set.

And you tell me that I wrote that I advertise a low price to get people into the door, to raise my hours on them to make up for it?


Did anybody else see a post of mine where it says that or even remotely implies that, past my hypothetical first few posts explaining to the OP why he has no clue about this business?

No, nobody else did. Why? Because people read the fucking response you god damned buffoon.


Remember how we spoke about assumptions earlier? Where you made many more assumptions than I, yet you claimed me the one making them?

You are assuming, as you've stated that I've said it and I haven't, that I advertise low rates to bring people in to raise the hours to make up for it in the end.

That's an assumption because I surely did not make that statement, ever.

Find it, or shut the hell up about it already, you're starting to piss me off. My mother warned me about arguing with idiots. "They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience", she said.

[KC native]

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves.

Ugh, you work for a fucking stealership? I'm sorry but stealership mechanics can kiss my dick. Most jobs I can handle. If I don't have the time or desire to fix it, I avoid fucking stealerships at all costs. Mom and Pop shops charge rates that are more fair and generally give breaks on book time. They also don't bitch if I bring my own part because I have connections to get parts at better prices.

And in my experience stealership mechanics regularly "miss" warranty repairs and are very creative in figuring out ways to be reimbursed by the manufacturer and get paid by the customer.

I had a bent lower control arm on my regular 08 Mazda 3. That thing was at the fucking stealership 4 times and they missed it everytime. When I was trying to get a warranty claim on my tires since I had been assured by the stealership that nothing was wrong with my suspension, the lacky at NTB spotted it within 10 minutes. The fucking assholes at the stealership tried to say my shocks were bad despite me replacing them myself. When I shot that down, the dickheads tried to say that it was because my tires were soft.

Fuck stealerships and their mechanics.

[KC native]

This is getting out of hand.

Actual book time on that mirror is 1 hour. If you called my shop and asked, we would quote you 1 hour. Period.

We do install bulbs on most vehicles at no charge other than the bulb itself. If you are a good customer, we probably wouldnt charge you at all for that. I have made many a customer by doing this for someone in the parking lot and saying, there you go its on me.

I think exort is getting hammered here, a lot of shops do what he is saying.

Fuck that. He runs a stealership service shop.

Just in case any one is wondering, stealerships make more money off of their service shops than they do selling cars.

[SAUTO]

Lol he's telling people how a businesses is run BUT it's not how he ran his. LMAO
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

Ugh, you work for a fucking stealership? I'm sorry but stealership mechanics can kiss my dick. Most jobs I can handle. If I don't have the time or desire to fix it, I avoid fucking stealerships at all costs. Mom and Pop shops charge rates that are more fair and generally give breaks on book time. They also don't bitch if I bring my own part because I have connections to get parts at better prices.

And in my experience stealership mechanics regularly "miss" warranty repairs and are very creative in figuring out ways to be reimbursed by the manufacturer and get paid by the customer.

I had a bent lower control arm on my regular 08 Mazda 3. That thing was at the fucking stealership 4 times and they missed it everytime. When I was trying to get a warranty claim on my tires since I had been assured by the stealership that nothing was wrong with my suspension, the lacky at NTB spotted it within 10 minutes. The fucking assholes at the stealership tried to say my shocks were bad despite me replacing them myself. When I shot that down, the dickheads tried to say that it was because my tires were soft.

Fuck stealerships and their mechanics.

I've worked at a number of stealerships, I've owned two mom and pops, and again work at a stealership.

That being said, one is not always like the other.

I know I'm not ever going to change your opinion on the matter, but understand something for me real quick. Mechanics only look at what they are told to look at. It is up to the service writer to direct them to the issue. It is up to you, to direct the service writer on what the issue is, so he can pass it on to the mechanic.

You can't blame the mechanic, sometimes it is the service writer at fault, and a lot of times, the majority of the case ends up being the Customers fault for not being direct and specific with the service writer.

If you walk in and toss the keys to the service writer and say "There's something wrong with it, it drives funny", you're literally telling the service writer to fuck off and the Mechanic is going to be in for a very long day of trying to figure out your incompetence.

That being said, I am not a greasemonkey, I'm not going to work on your mothers prius when she comes in, unless it has electrical problems or requires serious diagnostic work. That is my job, that is my forte. I'm the monkey in the back with the degrees and certificates in a specialized field who you get to pay an arm and a leg to because nobody else in the area can do what I can.

You shouldn't be mad about that though, it took a lot of money for me to get the education and the certificates that I have to be able to be in the position I am, you're not going to get cheap or free work out of me when I've already paid my dues.

As far as your mom and pop bit, they pass on the savings to you because they have much lower overhead, however, unless we're talking back woods repair like Sauto over here, most mom and pops won't let you bring in your part and if they do, they'll be charging every bit of the hours they see fit to make up for it.

Also, that discount you think you can get at a better price isn't true, whatever you get something at, I promise you I'll get it cheaper, the difference is will I sell you that part at cost? No, not a chance in the world. Not unless we were family.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How the fuck did this thread top 400 fucking posts?

[Exoter175]

Fuck that. He runs a stealership service shop.

Just in case any one is wondering, stealerships make more money off of their service shops than they do selling cars.

Well no shit sherlock, how do you think companies are able to produce a car at a loss, and not run deeply into the red? Service.

You don't buy a car thinking you'll never have to fix it, and if you do, you are incredibly naive.

And no, I do not run a stealership service shop....

Lol he's telling people how a businesses is run BUT it's not how he ran his. LMAO
Posted via Mobile Device

Because I'm letting them know how the industry works you fucking moron. I know how it works, I've been in it all my life.

I realize that since you lack the brainpower to innovate that you might not understand this, but when I started my first job, what I wanted to achieve was a happy median between efficiency and swiftness, without ever sacrificing the quality of our work, or the cost to the customer.

If I were to ask you how to do that, you'd probably think about it for the next 5 years, google it, forget about it, and that's that.

So of course I'm going to tell you how the industry is ran, and sometimes tell you where my business will differ. I'm not going to give you all the secrets to my success, but I'll surely tell you where most business practices are ancient or wrong.

[Exoter175]

How the fuck did this thread top 400 fucking posts?

Sauto being dumb, Saul trying to be smart, and me trying to explain to the Idiot OP how the industry works, how reality works.

[KC native]

Summary:

Hootie is a bad person.
Extorter is a bad person.

ROFL

[SAUTO]

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves. right here you say you have lower labor rates and you don't scale the labor hours as much as a dealer.


Buy you do scale them.

so you get people in the door with a low labor rate then hike up the hours (scaling you call it) to make up the difference.


But since you don't see the "scaled hours" every time , it's in the computer program which you set initially, it's not there.


All of that is in more posts of yours throughout this thread.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

Paging Sauto, still waiting for you to quote the post where I made that statement about luring people into my business on a cheap labor rate, to later increase the hours to make up for it.

Put your money where your mouth is, asshat.

[SAUTO]

All successful businesses, yet you work at a dealership. Dreaming about the next successful business.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

right here you say you have lower labor rates and you don't scale the labor hours as much as a dealer.


Buy you do scale them.

do you get people in the door with a low labor rate then hike up the hours (scaling you call it) to make up the difference.


But since you don't see the "scaled hours" every time , it's in the computer program which you set initially, it's not there.


All of that is in more posts of yours throughout this thread.
Posted via Mobile Device

Lowering my labor rate compared to a fucking dealer you god damned idiot.

YOU ARE THE DUMBEST PERSON I'VE EVER SPOKEN TO ON THE INTERNET EVER

I"m not even addressing the rest of your post because you completely misunderstood it and cannot comprehend it.

[HonestChieffan]

Learned a new term. And a new way to think about auto service.

If the business has a "service writer" run rapidly away. Go to a place with an "owner".

[Exoter175]

Learned a new term. And a new way to think about auto service.

If the business has a "service writer" run rapidly away. Go to a place with an "owner".

I won't stop you from doing that, but more importantly, if you have to work with a service writer, at least do them and the mechanic a favor and take your time explaining to him or her, what the problem is with the vehicle, when it happens, when it doesn't happen, and where the area you think the issue is happening at.

Makes everyone's life that much easier and will save you a ton of money in the long run.

[SAUTO]

Not in a major metropolitan area he hasn't, which I specifically noted about 15 pages ago.


Great post :thumb:



No, you are applying your bullshit to the post, there's a difference.

If a book time calls for two hours, I charge for two hours. The job gets done, and I get paid for two hours, simple as that.

My book times are scaled to add 10% to the labor required to account for thoroughness and accommodations I make for the customer.



And in many cases, the customers are, but in my businesses, I SHOW them exactly what they are paying for, as they watch me prepare the quote for them.

This isn't some behind the scenes quote job where I mask hours or apply scalers to the jobs being done, I simply point and click with the customer watching the screen so they know themselves.
I love this one too.

So you let the customers see the screen them selves. They get to see the book hours right there. Why? To look honest? Full disclosure?


Buy did you tell them you manually inflated those numbers? Why not?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Exoter175]

All successful businesses, yet you work at a dealership. Dreaming about the next successful business.
Posted via Mobile Device

I get paid more, for doing less.


Let me explain that to you again with a hypothetical model that you hopefully will not misinterpret and fuck up because you lack brain cells and reasoning skills.

Where I'd make 5 dollars for 10 minutes, I now make 10 dollars for 5 minutes.

You don't have to be a brilliant businessman to know that you either need to find someone to manage your business, or sell it outright. Lucky for me, I had the job before I sold the business.

Now I make quite a bit more, for doing quite a bit less.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't think I've ever removed a door panel and put it back on with every fastener it came off with. Worst one I ever did was on a 98 Camry, something with that damn door lock had me hung up for fucking ever. There's not much on a car that I dread more than pulling one of those things.

They are the Jake O'Connell of car parts.

[Exoter175]

I love this one too.

So you let the customers see the screen them selves. They get to see the book hours right there. Why? To look honest? Full disclosure?


Buy did you tell them you manually inflated those numbers? Why not?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, as I've explained, I do let my customers look at the screen while I build their quote for them, sometimes we'll even discuss why I've added a certain item so that they know why it is there. Later, if they don't like the price, we discuss why it is the way it is. They see the hours exactly as they are being billed.

It is not my job to tell them I've increased the book hours by 10% to be closer to the average of all books, nor SHOULD I, nor should I be obliged to.

You don't walk into KFC and demand to know their blend of secret herbs and spices do you?

Did you ask Dr. Pepper for his 23 ingredients?

No.

But KFC still tastes good, and Dr. Pepper still sells a ton of Soda, do they not?

[HonestChieffan]

I won't stop you from doing that, but more importantly, if you have to work with a service writer, at least do them and the mechanic a favor and take your time explaining to him or her, what the problem is with the vehicle, when it happens, when it doesn't happen, and where the area you think the issue is happening at.

Makes everyone's life that much easier and will save you a ton of money in the long run.

Got it. And I'll try to bring a shop manual and most recent links to service bulletins so you don't have to do anything but look up the hours you will bill me for rather than the hours it actually took at your city rate.

Dont stay open late for my business. Making life easier by not bothering jackasses like you with my auto issues.

[Exoter175]

Got it. And I'll try to bring a shop manual and most recent links to service bulletins so you don't have to do anything but look up the hours you will bill me for rather than the hours it actually took at your city rate.

Dont stay open late for my business. Making life easier by not bothering jackasses like you with my auto issues.


I"m a jackass because I'm explaining to you how the industry works, explaining to you how the chain of command at a dealership works?

Really? Do you even understand what is being talked about here? Or did you just hear that I work at a dealership and automatically assume I am a bad person because of it?

[KC native]

I've worked at a number of stealerships, I've owned two mom and pops, and again work at a stealership.

That being said, one is not always like the other.

I know I'm not ever going to change your opinion on the matter, but understand something for me real quick. Mechanics only look at what they are told to look at. It is up to the service writer to direct them to the issue. It is up to you, to direct the service writer on what the issue is, so he can pass it on to the mechanic.

You can't blame the mechanic, sometimes it is the service writer at fault, and a lot of times, the majority of the case ends up being the Customers fault for not being direct and specific with the service writer.

If you walk in and toss the keys to the service writer and say "There's something wrong with it, it drives funny", you're literally telling the service writer to fuck off and the Mechanic is going to be in for a very long day of trying to figure out your incompetence.

That being said, I am not a greasemonkey, I'm not going to work on your mothers prius when she comes in, unless it has electrical problems or requires serious diagnostic work. That is my job, that is my forte. I'm the monkey in the back with the degrees and certificates in a specialized field who you get to pay an arm and a leg to because nobody else in the area can do what I can.

You shouldn't be mad about that though, it took a lot of money for me to get the education and the certificates that I have to be able to be in the position I am, you're not going to get cheap or free work out of me when I've already paid my dues.

As far as your mom and pop bit, they pass on the savings to you because they have much lower overhead, however, unless we're talking back woods repair like Sauto over here, most mom and pops won't let you bring in your part and if they do, they'll be charging every bit of the hours they see fit to make up for it.

Also, that discount you think you can get at a better price isn't true, whatever you get something at, I promise you I'll get it cheaper, the difference is will I sell you that part at cost? No, not a chance in the world. Not unless we were family.

Get fucked. I explained to them very clearly which wheel was pulling off and that the camber of the rear wheels was the issue.

I spoke to my service writer several times. I spoke with the service manager. I was very explicit as to where the problem was coming from. The car was there 4 times within 6 months. The lackey at NTB had it on the lift (I don't own one) and showed me within 10 minutes what was bent.

You are fucking full of yourself. You were completely wrong on the Speed 3's fuel pump issue. I questioned myself and then went back and read. It's a cam driven fuel pump and with the stock internals it starves the motor if you start adding horsepower.

You work on cars. It's not fucking rocket science. Your ASE certifications mean jack shit. I know plenty of mechanics without certifications that I would pay to work on my car before your stealership ASE lackeys.

Also, I can get domestic car parts at dealership cost from buddies that are in car clubs. They have family members that work in the parts departments. So, again, you're not nearly as special as you think.

[SAUTO]

Yes, as I've explained, I do let my customers look at the screen while I build their quote for them, sometimes we'll even discuss why I've added a certain item so that they know why it is there. Later, if they don't like the price, we discuss why it is the way it is. They see the hours exactly as they are being billed.

It is not my job to tell them I've increased the book hours by 10% to be closer to the average of all books, nor SHOULD I, nor should I be obliged to.

You don't walk into KFC and demand to know their blend of secret herbs and spices do you?

Did you ask Dr. Pepper for his 23 ingredients?

No.

But KFC still tastes good, and Dr. Pepper still sells a ton of Soda, do they not?
You show them that screen to show where the hours come from. "alldata show it calls for x amount of hours"


But you don't tell them you actually made those numbers up yourself.

That's not honesty
Posted via Mobile Device

[KC native]

I won't stop you from doing that, but more importantly, if you have to work with a service writer, at least do them and the mechanic a favor and take your time explaining to him or her, what the problem is with the vehicle, when it happens, when it doesn't happen, and where the area you think the issue is happening at.

Makes everyone's life that much easier and will save you a ton of money in the long run.

That is fucking horseshit. The service writers are trained to be vague and try to pack as many services onto tickets as they can.

[KC native]

Learned a new term. And a new way to think about auto service.

If the business has a "service writer" run rapidly away. Go to a place with an "owner".

All stealerships work under this model now. You have to really bitch or have a fuck up from the dealership to even speak with a tech.

[Hootie]

JFC

Exoter turned a simple "question" thread into the biggest AIDS infested thread I've ever made and believe me...I have some dandies.

[Exoter175]

Get fucked. I explained to them very clearly which wheel was pulling off and that the camber of the rear wheels was the issue.

I spoke to my service writer several times. I spoke with the service manager. I was very explicit as to where the problem was coming from. The car was there 4 times within 6 months. The lackey at NTB had it on the lift (I don't own one) and showed me within 10 minutes what was bent.

You are fucking full of yourself. You were completely wrong on the Speed 3's fuel pump issue. I questioned myself and then went back and read. It's a cam driven fuel pump and with the stock internals it starves the motor if you start adding horsepower.

You work on cars. It's not fucking rocket science. Your ASE certifications mean jack shit. I know plenty of mechanics without certifications that I would pay to work on my car before your stealership ASE lackeys.

Also, I can get domestic car parts at dealership cost from buddies that are in car clubs. They have family members that work in the parts departments. So, again, you're not nearly as special as you think.

I didn't say you didn't explain it, I questioned if you did or not because this issues comes up all the time. Take your fucking tone down.

I was wrong about the speed 3's fuel pump issue? The fuck I was kid. I explained to you why they replace "the internals" of the pump, despite the fact that it is less internals and more about being able to utilize a factory location and hardware to mount with, thus bringing the price of the bump down to a very affordable level so that the part is easy to acquire for you.

Second, I explained to you in depth, how power works in a car. When you raise boost, you need to add fuel and watch timing and EGT's, you need to account for knock. You need to adjust your timing, fuel pressure, and injector duty cycle to adjust your AFR's in WoT, and that you need to do the same for daily drivability.

I explained to you that if you indeed had friends in the business, you could get the tuning done and modifications done for next to nothing.

However, we aren't talking aftermarket fuel pumps in this thread. We're referring to a mirror, or any factory replacement part.

Of which I promise you that I literally get at at cost less than your car club guys, but likely the same cost if you have a family member in the parts department.

I want to explain to you something, however.

Most discounts you'll receive from a car club, are 10-25% discounts from retail, not from cost. I get everything that my warehouse provides me, at cost, or slightly above it. A number you'll never touch unless your Tax ID does the volume and frequency that I do, and no car club will ever come close to that. However, if they had someone on the inside at a distributor, that could be the case, on a personal level, however, he is only allowed to purchase so many products for himself before his personal account is flagged for passing on the savings to non company customers.

I Spent a summer working at Keystone and Arrowspeed, I know how that business works, I know how it can get you in trouble.


You're coming at me with attitude, I"m just explaining to you how the world works dude, take your anger out on someone else, but don't tell me I was wrong about a god damned fuel pump when I clearly know more about the aftermarket and performance world than you do, and I especially have the knowledge for tuning better than you, its my fucking job.

[HonestChieffan]

I"m a jackass because I'm explaining to you how the industry works, explaining to you how the chain of command at a dealership works?

Really? Do you even understand what is being talked about here? Or did you just hear that I work at a dealership and automatically assume I am a bad person because of it?

Oh, not at all. I just understand that if we must talk to a service writer who basically looks up my charge before a mechanic has even looked at the problem, assigns a set time to do repair rather than actual time and uses an inflated hourly charge to the time then sells me a part with a huge markup.....but that is how you can book 100 hours in a 40 hour week.

Bottom line is city folks will fall for the big dealership fancy waiting room and Mr Service Writer in the white shirt routine and pay for it..Good for you, bad for them. You are not a bad person at all. My comment relative to you being a jackass is not about you, its about your attitude and your general approach. Dont take it personal, you choose to be a jackass but I have faith you could change if you wanted. After all you have certificates and such.

Folk in less populated areas who clearly are uneducated bumpkins will go to guys like Jason and get better work done for less money and suffer having Jason talk to us rather than a service writer, Jason will likely have a bit of grease on his shirt, and we will not have a latte from the coin operated machine.

[Exoter175]

You show them that screen to show where the hours come from. "alldata show it calls for x amount of hours"


But you don't tell them you actually made those numbers up yourself.

That's not honesty
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't make the numbers up myself, why would I tell them that?

I adjusted the numbers to get close to an industry average and to allow myself breathing room on the accommodations I make the for the customer, something you don't even understand.

That is fucking horseshit. The service writers are trained to be vague and try to pack as many services onto tickets as they can.

Vague? No, trained to sell as much as they can? Yes. That doesn't stop them from doing their job, which is conveying the problem to me, the mechanic. If you don't tell them, they don't tell me. Simple as that. You can't get mad at the mechanic for something that you either messed up, or the service writer messed up. Unless both of those were clear, then you can blame me for it. :thumb:

All stealerships work under this model now. You have to really bitch or have a fuck up from the dealership to even speak with a tech.

Or you can say "I'd like to speak with a technician" and not take no for an answer.

Just like how I'll ask for your boss if you work in the customer service field and I'm not happy with how you are treating me.
JFC

Exoter turned a simple "question" thread into the biggest AIDS infested thread I've ever made and believe me...I have some dandies.

I didn't do shit, I explained to you why you were stupid, why you had no clue, how the real world works, and you just carried it on until the other idiots, Sauto and Saul, decided they wanted to pipe in.

Sauto feels the need to pipe in on anything automotive related, sometimes regurgitating what I've already said.

[Pablo]

JFC

Exoter turned a simple "question" thread into the biggest AIDS infested thread I've ever made and believe me...I have some dandies.

He's awful at CP. Nobody gives a shit about his opinion but he keeps on giving it.

[Exoter175]

Oh, not at all. I just understand that if we must talk to a service writer who basically looks up my charge before a mechanic has even looked at the problem, assigns a set time to do repair rather than actual time and uses an inflated hourly charge to the time then sells me a part with a huge markup.....but that is how you can book 100 hours in a 40 hour week.

Bottom line is city folks will fall for the big dealership fancy waiting room and Mr Service Writer in the white shirt routine and pay for it..Good for you, bad for them. You are not a bad person at all. My comment relative to you being a jackass is not about you, its about your attitude and your general approach. Dont take it personal, you choose to be a jackass but I have faith you could change if you wanted. After all you have certificates and such.

Folk in less populated areas who clearly are uneducated bumpkins will go to guys like Jason and get better work done for less money and suffer having Jason talk to us rather than a service writer, Jason will likely have a bit of grease on his shirt, and we will not have a latte from the coin operated machine.

You won't get better work from Jason, that's guaranteed, but what you seem to have misunderstood, or not even read, is the fact that I ran the small time shop business, I opened two of them. I know how the entirety of the industry works, and if not for my stealership offer, or my partner getting his stealership offer, I'd still be in business at that location, instead of calverts.

What I don't understand, is how you can devalue Education and Certification.

Imagine 75 Jasons, 5 times smarter than he is now, instructing me on how everything in the automotive industry works, now apply that for around 6 years of schooling and training.


Now understand that Jason doesn't have that education or training.

That's the difference between he and I, and in all honesty, I'll have the better price, better product, and better customer service BECAUSE of my education and training.

"old time" folks like yourself might remember a term long forgotten.

"Paying your dues".

I've paid mine, and then some.

Don't jump on my case because I took a job at a stealership, my work isn't dishonest, just as my work in my own shop wasn't dishonest before that.

[Hootie]

He's awful at CP. Nobody gives a shit about his opinion but he keeps on giving it.

he keeps telling me about how stupid and terrible I am because I don't know how the big bad real world of auto mechanics work...

and I keep reminding him my side mirror on my car I no longer car about appearance wise broke and I have no interest in paying a lot of money to have it fixed when I already have the part...and that if a dealership or local body shop wants to charge an arm and a leg I'd just have a "mexican" (a metaphor, really) do it for cheap...

and somehow that turned into him doing this

truly fascinating

[Exoter175]

He's awful at CP. Nobody gives a shit about his opinion but he keeps on giving it.

Really?

Installing a passenger... 03-11-2013 12:06 PM notorious You are going to piss off a bunch of people, but you are 100% correct.
Installing a passenger... 03-10-2013 11:47 PM Phobia Yup. He's a 'tard.
Installing a passenger... 03-10-2013 11:39 PM chiefforlife Bravo!!

They seem to disagree with you on this thread.

Want me to do the PM's next?

[Pablo]

Really?

Installing a passenger... 03-11-2013 12:06 PM notorious You are going to piss off a bunch of people, but you are 100% correct.
Installing a passenger... 03-10-2013 11:47 PM Phobia Yup. He's a 'tard.
Installing a passenger... 03-10-2013 11:39 PM chiefforlife Bravo!!

They seem to disagree with you on this thread.

Want me to do the PM's next?
Oh, please. That's probably interesting. Or not. Feel free to write a book report back to me.

[Exoter175]

he keeps telling me about how stupid and terrible I am because I don't know how the big bad real world of auto mechanics work...

and I keep reminding him my side mirror on my car I no longer car about appearance wise broke and I have no interest in paying a lot of money to have it fixed when I already have the part...and that if a dealership or local body shop wants to charge an arm and a leg I'd just have a "mexican" (a metaphor, really) do it for cheap...

and somehow that turned into him doing this

truly fascinating

That isn't how this thread turned out.

You implied that the mechanic should do it because they are already working on your car and it should take no time at all, according to your vast experience, and that it shouldn't cost more than 20 bucks because you are cheap or don't' care about the car your parents bought you for high school. Despite the fact that the Audi you drive, is likely the only thing responsible for making ends meet in your life, you neglect it.

And yeah, there was that bit about how you don't have a fucking clue about the real world.

[Exoter175]

Oh, please. That's probably interesting. Or not. Feel free to write a book report back to me.

It just proves you wrong, that's all.:thumb:

[Hootie]

LMAO

fixing cars is blue collar work

this guy is trying to pretend you need your fucking doctorate to be able to change oil

what a fucking prick...so because Jason doesn't feel the need to rip off his customers he's an idiot and he doesn't have talent

riiiiight

what a prick this guy is

I'm willing to bet some of the best, most skilled mechanics are the guys like Jason that just run their shop, run it honestly, and charge an actual fair price...

rather than jacking everything up and making up "issues" to try and get more $$$ out of each customer when they walk through the door

[KC native]

I didn't say you didn't explain it, I questioned if you did or not because this issues comes up all the time. Take your fucking tone down.

I was wrong about the speed 3's fuel pump issue? The fuck I was kid. I explained to you why they replace "the internals" of the pump, despite the fact that it is less internals and more about being able to utilize a factory location and hardware to mount with, thus bringing the price of the bump down to a very affordable level so that the part is easy to acquire for you.

Second, I explained to you in depth, how power works in a car. When you raise boost, you need to add fuel and watch timing and EGT's, you need to account for knock. You need to adjust your timing, fuel pressure, and injector duty cycle to adjust your AFR's in WoT, and that you need to do the same for daily drivability.

I explained to you that if you indeed had friends in the business, you could get the tuning done and modifications done for next to nothing.

However, we aren't talking aftermarket fuel pumps in this thread. We're referring to a mirror, or any factory replacement part.

Of which I promise you that I literally get at at cost less than your car club guys, but likely the same cost if you have a family member in the parts department.

I want to explain to you something, however.

Most discounts you'll receive from a car club, are 10-25% discounts from retail, not from cost. I get everything that my warehouse provides me, at cost, or slightly above it. A number you'll never touch unless your Tax ID does the volume and frequency that I do, and no car club will ever come close to that. However, if they had someone on the inside at a distributor, that could be the case, on a personal level, however, he is only allowed to purchase so many products for himself before his personal account is flagged for passing on the savings to non company customers.

I Spent a summer working at Keystone and Arrowspeed, I know how that business works, I know how it can get you in trouble.


You're coming at me with attitude, I"m just explaining to you how the world works dude, take your anger out on someone else, but don't tell me I was wrong about a god damned fuel pump when I clearly know more about the aftermarket and performance world than you do, and I especially have the knowledge for tuning better than you, its my fucking job.

You are full of yourself.

Do you think you are the only one who knows how to add horsepower to a car and do it properly? Or how an ICE works?

I never held myself out as an expert nor was I looking for your attempted tutoring. I know my way around a car. Your lecture wasn't needed. I know how power is generated and what modifying different components actually does to generate horsepower.

The fact that you feel you need to lecture me about something which I already have a decent amount of knowledge is telling. Am I as versed with the intricacies of tuning as you? No. Do I know enough to not need to go to a know it all stealership mechanic and get raped on labor rate and "book time"? Yes.

[Exoter175]

LMAO

fixing cars is blue collar work

this guy is trying to pretend you need your fucking doctorate to be able to change oil

what a fucking prick...so because Jason doesn't feel the need to rip off his customers he's an idiot and he doesn't have talent

riiiiight

what a prick this guy is

I'm willing to bet some of the best, most skilled mechanics are the guys like Jason that just run their shop, run it honestly, and charge an actual fair price...

rather than jacking everything up and making up "issues" to try and get more $$$ out of each customer when they walk through the door

And you'd be wrong, the absolute best mechanics out there, don't actually do mechanic work anymore, most of them have moved on to become educators. The real superb mechanics are elite professionals in most racing industries, or move up the stealership foodchain to "consultant" levels, which is likely my next step.

You don't need your doctorate to do an oil change, but with the growing degree of technology in cars these days, pretty soon you'll need a bachelors to do an overhaul.

At least, you'll probably need a bachelors to get hired in the first place.

That's just how the industry works. Do you think I'd have the position I have right now if I were just a high school graduate like Jason over there?

Not a snowballs chance in hell kid.

[Hootie]

That isn't how this thread turned out.

You implied that the mechanic should do it because they are already working on your car and it should take no time at all, according to your vast experience, and that it shouldn't cost more than 20 bucks because you are cheap or don't' care about the car your parents bought you for high school. Despite the fact that the Audi you drive, is likely the only thing responsible for making ends meet in your life, you neglect it.

And yeah, there was that bit about how you don't have a ****ing clue about the real world.

I never implied anything...

as someone not familiar with pricing and the mechanic world...I made this thread to inquire on whether or not I should ask for a "favor" at one of these places...

I never, one time, said anything along the lines of "they better do it for $20 or they are stupid!!!"

I asked if that would be an offensive offer...I was told yes. And then I immediately said "cool, glad I asked."

and then you turned this thread into life lessons about an industry that fascinates me not

I could care less about cars...if mine works, cool. If not, not cool. If I go to a place and feel like they are ripping me off, I leave. If not, I pay. The end. Yay.

but thanks for your 200,000,000,582 character ongoing life lesson you've provided to all in this thread about how savvy you are at ripping people off

[TimeForWasp]

Where is the line for free mirror changes?

[KC native]

You won't get better work from Jason, that's guaranteed, but what you seem to have misunderstood, or not even read, is the fact that I ran the small time shop business, I opened two of them. I know how the entirety of the industry works, and if not for my stealership offer, or my partner getting his stealership offer, I'd still be in business at that location, instead of calverts.

What I don't understand, is how you can devalue Education and Certification.

Imagine 75 Jasons, 5 times smarter than he is now, instructing me on how everything in the automotive industry works, now apply that for around 6 years of schooling and training.


Now understand that Jason doesn't have that education or training.

That's the difference between he and I, and in all honesty, I'll have the better price, better product, and better customer service BECAUSE of my education and training.

"old time" folks like yourself might remember a term long forgotten.

"Paying your dues".

I've paid mine, and then some.

Don't jump on my case because I took a job at a stealership, my work isn't dishonest, just as my work in my own shop wasn't dishonest before that.

The automotive industry isn't a new industry nor do you have to work in the automotive industry to understand it.

[Exoter175]

You are full of yourself.

Do you think you are the only one who knows how to add horsepower to a car and do it properly? Or how an ICE works?

I never held myself out as an expert nor was I looking for your attempted tutoring. I know my way around a car. Your lecture wasn't needed. I know how power is generated and what modifying different components actually does to generate horsepower.

The fact that you feel you need to lecture me about something which I already have a decent amount of knowledge is telling. Am I as versed with the intricacies of tuning as you? No. Do I know enough to not need to go to a know it all stealership mechanic and get raped on labor rate and "book time"? Yes.


Really? That's not how it worked in the other thread, you made comments, I corrected you, then you went on to state that you likely don't know as much about performance and modifications as I do.

I definitely am full of myself, because I've spent YEARS in school for that exact reason.

Engine performance was my first automotive class, and my first ASE section.

I drive a modded Mustang GT and a modded 4x4 ranger, I'm a car guy.

So when I see you saying stuff that isn't exactly right, I'll correct it, much like I did with Jason in another thread.

You can't fault me for you being wrong, dude.

[-King-]

ROFL @ The fact that this thread has 450 posts.

[Hootie]

And you'd be wrong, the absolute best mechanics out there, don't actually do mechanic work anymore, most of them have moved on to become educators. The real superb mechanics are elite professionals in most racing industries, or move up the stealership foodchain to "consultant" levels, which is likely my next step.

You don't need your doctorate to do an oil change, but with the growing degree of technology in cars these days, pretty soon you'll need a bachelors to do an overhaul.

At least, you'll probably need a bachelors to get hired in the first place.

That's just how the industry works. Do you think I'd have the position I have right now if I were just a high school graduate like Jason over there?

Not a snowballs chance in hell kid.

you need a bachelors to change a side mirror eh?

Might as well get that masters...

I can only imagine the hiring manager at Jiffy Lube looking at an actual resume and seeing 'Masters' degree on the thing...

I'm sure the conversation at the local Jiffy Lube with the new guy and his masters degree with old 30 year old vet Zed would be quite stimulating.

you're a fucking dipshit...my maintenance guy is dumber than a box of fucking rocks but knows everything there is to know about cars and fixing cars...

pretty sure he doesn't have his masters degree but I could be wrong

[Pablo]

So Exoter has a Bachelor's and he's an auto technician. Cool story. Would read again.

[Hootie]

Where is the line for free mirror changes?

I could probably get a bidding war with the corner Mexicans and get it done in 10 minutes for $5 and a key bump

[Exoter175]

I never implied anything...

as someone not familiar with pricing and the mechanic world...I made this thread to inquire on whether or not I should ask for a "favor" at one of these places...

I never, one time, said anything along the lines of "they better do it for $20 or they are stupid!!!"

I asked if that would be an offensive offer...I was told yes. And then I immediately said "cool, glad I asked."

and then you turned this thread into life lessons about an industry that fascinates me not

I could care less about cars...if mine works, cool. If not, not cool. If I go to a place and feel like they are ripping me off, I leave. If not, I pay. The end. Yay.

but thanks for your 200,000,000,582 character ongoing life lesson you've provided to all in this thread about how savvy you are at ripping people off


The hell you did, you didn't make this thread and say "Hey guys, is 20 bucks too much or not enough to have my mechanic fix my mirror""

You said, "if it costs more than 20 bucks I'll have my friend do it for free" on top of ranting about prices and literally crying like a stuck pig about how unfair it was that you couldn't get it done at a reasonable price with your car already in the shop.

And then boasting about how you wouldn't pay more for the fix, despite the car being free and that you didn't give a fuck about it, and would rather be more of a liability on the road, than fork out 15 extra dollars on top of the 20, to get it fixed, assuming your mechanic would have given you a 50% discount on labor rate for the car already being there.

You literally bitched and moaned before I even made my first post.
Where is the line for free mirror changes?

On craigslist under "mobile mechanic-mexican edition"
The automotive industry isn't a new industry nor do you have to work in the automotive industry to understand it.

Actually, it is one of the newest industries on the planet, is one of the most ever changing industries on the planet, and without being in the industry, i doubt you even under stand 1/5th of what is going on.

But sure, we'll take your statement because it totally makes sense.:thumb:

[HonestChieffan]

You won't get better work from Jason, that's guaranteed, but what you seem to have misunderstood, or not even read, is the fact that I ran the small time shop business, I opened two of them. I know how the entirety of the industry works, and if not for my stealership offer, or my partner getting his stealership offer, I'd still be in business at that location, instead of calverts.

What I don't understand, is how you can devalue Education and Certification.

Imagine 75 Jasons, 5 times smarter than he is now, instructing me on how everything in the automotive industry works, now apply that for around 6 years of schooling and training.


Now understand that Jason doesn't have that education or training.

That's the difference between he and I, and in all honesty, I'll have the better price, better product, and better customer service BECAUSE of my education and training.

"old time" folks like yourself might remember a term long forgotten.

"Paying your dues".

I've paid mine, and then some.

Don't jump on my case because I took a job at a stealership, my work isn't dishonest, just as my work in my own shop wasn't dishonest before that.

OK. All that.

Jason would get my business cause he isnt a certified highly decorated jackass. Paying your dues does not imply I have to pay for the dues you paid. Your education and certificates quite honestly mean zero as it relates to customer service. You won't have a better price. And your work can be no better than equal. A spark piug installed by you is no better installed than one by me, Jason or the OP.

There is a difference between a competent mechanic and an incompetent mechanic. However the final product when comparing two competent mechanics is the same. Its a generic. The difference is how we get there and what we pay for the trip.

I have no said you are dishonest at all. I think you are quite the opposite. You have been very honest. You can charge a high shop rate because you are in a city dealership. In more rural areas the market wont tolerate your rates. You use book hours that you inflate. Thats cool, thats how the latte machines and the uniform service gets paid to clean your shirt. You have top flight techs that get bonused for beating the book time making you even more.

My observation is that you have a compulsive need to denigrate the ability, competence and customer service delivered by the guy in the independent shop in Nevada or Clinton, or wherever or the guy in the dealership in Butler or Garden City Kansas cause they are small town rubes.

[Exoter175]

ROFL @ The fact that this thread has 450 posts.

And going strong now that Princess is back!

you need a bachelors to change a side mirror eh?

Might as well get that masters...

I can only imagine the hiring manager at Jiffy Lube looking at an actual resume and seeing 'Masters' degree on the thing...

I'm sure the conversation at the local Jiffy Lube with the new guy and his masters degree with old 30 year old vet Zed would be quite stimulating.

you're a fucking dipshit...my maintenance guy is dumber than a box of fucking rocks but knows everything there is to know about cars and fixing cars...

pretty sure he doesn't have his masters degree but I could be wrong

Why don't you have your maintenance guy do it for 20 bucks then? Fuck.

I also didn't say that you have to have your bachelors degree, I said here before long you'll have to have it just to get hired on somewhere, that's the state of the global economy, unless you haven't noticed.

So Exoter has a Bachelor's and he's an auto technician. Cool story. Would read again.

:thumb:

Working on my Masters so I can go work with grandpa Sauto out in booneville.

I could probably get a bidding war with the corner Mexicans and get it done in 10 minutes for $5 and a key bump

Get it done slacker! This thread has gone like 24 hours and your shit still isn't fixed? You keep talking about mexicans working fast but you still have a busted mirror.

[Pablo]

B.S. in engineering or such to get that auto technician title, Exoter?

[Hootie]

LMAO

no I didn't...

I was told it was a 5 minute job...I was hoping $20 would do the trick. I went in today and didn't even bother. Wasn't worth it to me. I made this thread to make sure I wouldn't offend anyone by submitting such an offer...this thread told me it wasn't even worth the attempt.

Go read the first 50 posts of this thread and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE quote the post in question. PLEASE, IT SHOULD BE EASY. JUST DO IT.

and when I went to the Dallas, TX Audi dealership to spend $1500 on something to get my car fixed...I can assure you I didn't see a bunch of fancy degrees on the wall...and I didn't think to myself "oh shit, there are no degrees on the wall! These guys are going to fuck up my car!"

I did think, "yeah, I'm going to get fucked here...this is the god damn dealership."

but my dad kept such good care of this car and he told me to get the oil changed at Audi, to not be a cheap asshole and put premium gas in the car, and to get all of the work done at the actual dealership so I listened to him.

I, however, felt as if I didn't need to go spend $500 at the dealership to get a new mirror...you know, since it's the passenger side mirror and it isn't illegal in Illinois to drive without one....

after the hail damage ruined the appeal of the car to me (it was a fucking nice car before it got hailed on)...I no longer feel the need for it to be a fancy, luxury car and that's why I researched around and bought my own mirror that cost 1/3 of the money it would have when I got a quote from Audi.

[Hootie]

Exoter...I expect your next post to have a quote in it that backs up this ludicrous statement:

"You said, "if it costs more than 20 bucks I'll have my friend do it for free" on top of ranting about prices and literally crying like a stuck pig about how unfair it was that you couldn't get it done at a reasonable price with your car already in the shop."

[-King-]

One of these days, we'll have to call our mechanics "Doctor".

[Exoter175]

OK. All that.

Jason would get my business cause he isnt a certified highly decorated jackass. Paying your dues does not imply I have to pay for the dues you paid. Your education and certificates quite honestly mean zero as it relates to customer service. You won't have a better price. And your work can be no better than equal. A spark piug installed by you is no better installed than one by me, Jason or the OP.

There is a difference between a competent mechanic and an incompetent mechanic. However the final product when comparing two competent mechanics is the same. Its a generic. The difference is how we get there and what we pay for the trip.

I have no said you are dishonest at all. I think you are quite the opposite. You have been very honest. You can charge a high shop rate because you are in a city dealership. In more rural areas the market wont tolerate your rates. You use book hours that you inflate. Thats cool, thats how the latte machines and the uniform service gets paid to clean your shirt. You have top flight techs that get bonused for beating the book time making you even more.

My observation is that you have a compulsive need to denigrate the ability, competence and customer service delivered by the guy in the independent shop in Nevada or Clinton, or wherever or the guy in the dealership in Butler or Garden City Kansas cause they are small town rubes.

There are two parts to your post that are wrong.

1. That is exactly what you pay for, me having paid my dues. Do people go to an expensive Salon because they want to throw away money? Or do you think they want THE BEST haircut possible, regardless of the fact that it can be done as well at great clips.

Chances are, that stylist went to a very expensive school and was an understudy for some very popular and important artists before they got their job, and yes, they went to school for it and paid. So now they're taking in the dough for the dues they paid.

That same stylist at Walmart probably graduated from a 60 day or 90 day "beautician course" and earned their right to cut hair, not the same education, but that stylist wouldn't have a shot at working for the expensive salon, just as the stylist at the expensive salon wouldn't work at great clips unless they absolutely had to. Same applies here.

Same applies to the practices of law, practices of banking and trading.

2. You think I am against small business, yet I am just the opposite, I'm all for small business. One can argue that I'm actually detracting from my current employer, driving customers away to smaller businesses because it'll cost less to have the same work done.

I am all for the small businessman, I've created two small businesses already, and I hope to start the paperwork on my third very soon. I support small business in a way you might never understand because you aren't up to date on my day to day doings like some others might be, but trust me, I've done as much as I could possible due to add to the small business community, including an AMA on reddit, as well as hundreds of long, thoughtful posts on the entrepreneur section on thoughts and suggestions for people to run their business, or run it better.

I'm probably small business' #1 supporter on this website, I just have disdain for Jason because he attacked me first and hasn't let up because he's a fucktard and according to him I'm an "over-educated knowitall", as if you could ever be over-educated in life.

[Hootie]

I was wondering what a fair price to ask for at the shop tomorrow...that's why. Pretty ****ing simple, no?

I'm not going to ask them to do it for $20 if that is an insult. I have the part, I've already spent $105 on that...I would rather not waste my friend's time at his work to do me a favor so tomorrow when I'm getting some minor work done was going to have them do it as long as it didn't cost much more than $20.

if it costs $50+ for labor on something that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes then forget it

do you see this post???

do you see how it was just a question?

do you see the line where I said...

"I'm not going to ask them to do it for $20 if that is an insult?"

THIS THREAD WAS AN ETIQUETTE THREAD...I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO GO ALL EXOTER ON ME SO I MADE A THREAD ON CP. LOOKS LIKE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, NO?

[Pablo]

One of these days, we'll have to call our mechanics "Doctor".

It's the natural progression. Cardiologists moonlighting to pick up an extra buck in an ever expanding and complex technological field.

[Hootie]

One of these days, we'll have to call our mechanics "Doctor".

getting my "oil changed" by a doctor doesn't sound too good...I'm not looking forward to that. I'm cringing thinking about it. I hope they buy me lunch first.

[Exoter175]

B.S. in engineering or such to get that auto technician title, Exoter?

Trolling hard now aren't we?

LMAO

no I didn't...

I was told it was a 5 minute job...I was hoping $20 would do the trick. I went in today and didn't even bother. Wasn't worth it to me. I made this thread to make sure I wouldn't offend anyone by submitting such an offer...this thread told me it wasn't even worth the attempt.

Go read the first 50 posts of this thread and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE quote the post in question. PLEASE, IT SHOULD BE EASY. JUST DO IT.

and when I went to the Dallas, TX Audi dealership to spend $1500 on something to get my car fixed...I can assure you I didn't see a bunch of fancy degrees on the wall...and I didn't think to myself "oh shit, there are no degrees on the wall! These guys are going to fuck up my car!"

I did think, "yeah, I'm going to get fucked here...this is the god damn dealership."

but my dad kept such good care of this car and he told me to get the oil changed at Audi, to not be a cheap asshole and put premium gas in the car, and to get all of the work done at the actual dealership so I listened to him.

I, however, felt as if I didn't need to go spend $500 at the dealership to get a new mirror...you know, since it's the passenger side mirror and it isn't illegal in Illinois to drive without one....

after the hail damage ruined the appeal of the car to me (it was a fucking nice car before it got hailed on)...I no longer feel the need for it to be a fancy, luxury car and that's why I researched around and bought my own mirror that cost 1/3 of the money it would have when I got a quote from Audi.

Sorry, not reading that 235,231,388 character response, just pointing out that you weren't told it would take 5 minutes, by a technician. Just a joe schmoe. And you're wrong about just about everything you just wrote.

Exoter...I expect your next post to have a quote in it that backs up this ludicrous statement:

"You said, "if it costs more than 20 bucks I'll have my friend do it for free" on top of ranting about prices and literally crying like a stuck pig about how unfair it was that you couldn't get it done at a reasonable price with your car already in the shop."

Why would I quote it? You could easily go to the first page or two and read your own post yourself.

One of these days, we'll have to call our mechanics "Doctor".

That could be very true.

And the sad thing is, it'll be the cheapest you will ever pay for a doctors visit, out of pocket.

[Dartgod]

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.
You're a fucking douche.

[loochy]

do you see this post???

do you see how it was just a question?

do you see the line where I said...

"I'm not going to ask them to do it for $20 if that is an insult?"

THIS THREAD WAS AN ETIQUETTE THREAD...I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO GO ALL EXOTER ON ME SO I MADE A THREAD ON CP. LOOKS LIKE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, NO?

Top 5 most evil people ever:

Hitler
Bin Laden
Stalin
Hootie
Extorter

[Hootie]

Why would I quote it? You could easily go to the first page or two and read your own post yourself.

So do it...

and if it's found, and everyone was like 'omg Peyton's Princess was PWNED' I'll admit I was wrong and not post 1 more time in this thread (after the admission).

[Exoter175]

do you see this post???

do you see how it was just a question?

do you see the line where I said...

"I'm not going to ask them to do it for $20 if that is an insult?"

THIS THREAD WAS AN ETIQUETTE THREAD...I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO GO ALL EXOTER ON ME SO I MADE A THREAD ON CP. LOOKS LIKE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, NO?

Did you see this part? "if it costs $50+ for labor on something that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes then forget it"

getting my "oil changed" by a doctor doesn't sound too good...I'm not looking forward to that. I'm cringing thinking about it. I hope they buy me lunch first.

Does your current doctor do that?

You're a fucking douche.

Why? Because I call it how it is?

Oh noes, I might hurt a few feelings.

Well suck it up sunshine, I live in the real world where there are no unicorns, where hard work pays off, and paying your dues allows you to move up the latter, and idiots like Sauto will always drag you down so they don't feel left in the dust.:thumb:

[Hootie]

Top 5 most evil people ever:

Hitler
Bin Laden
Stalin
Hootie
Extorter

is there at least a gap between me and Stalin or...?

[Exoter175]

Top 5 most evil people ever:

Hitler
Bin Laden
Stalin
Hootie
Extorter

You mean I'm now above that one guy who I was being a multi account of? Whose name I can't quite remember but its on the tip of my tongue?

So do it...

and if it's found, and everyone was like 'omg Peyton's Princess was PWNED' I'll admit I was wrong and not post 1 more time in this thread (after the admission).

What am I looking for precisely?

[TimeForWasp]

I'll take mirror replacements for $1000 Alex

[Exoter175]

what I'm trying to say is...I'm on tap for about $100 of work tomorrow and with that I don't expect to pay more than $20 for them to install the mirror...is that reasonable? If they want to charge me more I already have a friend who said he'd do it free of charge but I rather not use his time if I can just pay $20 or so when I'm already taking my car in tomorrow as is

First page, you crying about having your friend do it if its more than 20 bucks, and you not EXPECTING it to cost more than 20 bucks, despite the fact that you knew nothing about the business, which I later came in to explain so that you KNEW better.

[loochy]

You mean I'm now above that one guy who I was being a multi account of? Whose name I can't quite remember but its on the tip of my tongue?



What am I looking for precisely?

BLACKBOB?

EXTORTER IS A BLACKBOB MULT

[Dartgod]

Why? Because I call it how it is?

No. It's because you're a fucking douche.

[Hootie]

I said I wouldn't pay more than $50 to get my mirror installed...in fact, I won't pay more than $20...

and I'm 100% ok if that means I can't get any professionals to do it...that makes sense. That's why I asked. I wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into and I wanted to make sure I didn't offend anyone.

That was the 100% sole purpose of this thread. At no point did I say "omg, the auto repair industry is unfair! damnit obama!"

not once, and nor do I think that now

I don't care. If someone can get someone to pay them 10 X more than something is really worth then good for them and 'Merica!

[loochy]

So I'd just go outside with a screwdriver and a butter knife and the mirror would be replaced in the time it took me to post this.

[Hootie]

First page, you crying about having your friend do it if its more than 20 bucks, and you not EXPECTING it to cost more than 20 bucks, despite the fact that you knew nothing about the business, which I later came in to explain so that you KNEW better.

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

where in the fuck was I crying in that post?

I was wondering if $20 was reasonable...in which Bwana said 'good fucking luck!' in which case the thread COULD HAVE BEEN, and SHOULD HAVE BEEN over.

there is no tears in that post...you're and idiot

[Exoter175]

BLACKBOB?

EXTORTER IS A BLACKBOB MULT

That's the one! That's who I was being accused of a multi of. I loved that whole argument.
No. It's because you're a fucking douche.

I'm really not though, you just assume I'm a douche because I call things how they are, or because I've hated on your friend.

If I'm a douche, then you're a judgemental asshat, trust me, if you ever met me you'd do a 180.

You'd still consider me a knowitall in real life, but you'd consider me a friendly knowitall.

[Hootie]

So I'd just go outside with a screwdriver and a butter knife and the mirror would be replaced in the time it took me to post this.
are you mexican? If so, maybe.

If you're white you'd be too lazy and you'd just drive to Taco Bell and have a mexican divy you out some soft shells and then tell me to take my car to Taco Bell and ask the cashier if he could do it.

[Pablo]

So I'd just go outside with a screwdriver and a butter knife and the mirror would be replaced in the time it took me to post this.

We're going to need to know your level of education before we feel comfortable with you doing that. Please report back.

[KC native]

Actually, it is one of the newest industries on the planet, is one of the most ever changing industries on the planet, and without being in the industry, i doubt you even under stand 1/5th of what is going on.

But sure, we'll take your statement because it totally makes sense.:thumb:

Are you serious? We have been mass producing automobiles for over a century. The automotive industry is mature and very well understood.

Like I said, it's not rocket science. It's not new. It sure as fuck isn't complicated.

[Hootie]

we were promised flying cars by now but you mechanics are too fucking stupid to figure it out

instead we have smart phones

thanks a lot, college degree having mechanics

[loochy]

are you mexican? If so, maybe.

If you're white you'd be too lazy and you'd just drive to Taco Bell and have a mexican divy you out some soft shells and then tell me to take my car to Taco Bell and ask the cashier if he could do it.

no, but ill wear some super pointy toed cowboy boots just for you

[Pablo]

That's the one! That's who I was being accused of a multi of. I loved that whole argument.


I'm really not though, you just assume I'm a douche because I call things how they are, or because I've hated on your friend.

If I'm a douche, then you're a judgemental asshat, trust me, if you ever met me you'd do a 180.

You'd still consider me a knowitall in real life, but you'd consider me a friendly knowitall.

Nobody knows a friendly know-it-all. But most of us know a douche or two.

[Exoter175]

I said I wouldn't pay more than $50 to get my mirror installed...in fact, I won't pay more than $20...

and I'm 100% ok if that means I can't get any professionals to do it...that makes sense. That's why I asked. I wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into and I wanted to make sure I didn't offend anyone.

That was the 100% sole purpose of this thread. At no point did I say "omg, the auto repair industry is unfair! damnit obama!"

not once, and nor do I think that now

I don't care. If someone can get someone to pay them 10 X more than something is really worth then good for them and 'Merica!

Your post has absolutely nothing to do with your contest of my point that I made, which is you came into this thread whining on the first page about your assumptions, the costs, and how it was unfair and so forth. Before I posted, which prompted my posting.

So, I don't really know why you're rambling on now.

So I'd just go outside with a screwdriver and a butter knife and the mirror would be replaced in the time it took me to post this.

Right? Easy peasy. But according to Princess, he has a vagina and has some kind of aversion to physical labor, which in the real world, means he'll have to pay for that aversion.

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

where in the fuck was I crying in that post?

I was wondering if $20 was reasonable...in which Bwana said 'good fucking luck!' in which case the thread COULD HAVE BEEN, and SHOULD HAVE BEEN over.

there is no tears in that post...you're and idiot

It wasn't, because you continued, that was only like, the 4th post in this thread, and in that quote you said "If it costs 50+ forget it", that's you crying about the LIKELY cost of the repair.

are you mexican? If so, maybe.

If you're white you'd be too lazy and you'd just drive to Taco Bell and have a mexican divy you out some soft shells and then tell me to take my car to Taco Bell and ask the cashier if he could do it.

You have some kind of love affair with mexicans for some reason.

We're going to need to know your level of education before we feel comfortable with you doing that. Please report back.

Education level: Mexican, proceed to Princess' house.

[Hootie]

I love mexicans because they work hard and aren't entitled...like us greedy Americans.

best blue collar workers in the country

[TimeForWasp]

Why would you remove a perfectly good duct tape repair. You could have reinforced it with spray foam and bondo.

[Exoter175]

Are you serious? We have been mass producing automobiles for over a century. The automotive industry is mature and very well understood.

Like I said, it's not rocket science. It's not new. It sure as fuck isn't complicated.

Explain that to the software and engineers educating the robots on how to build a new car every 4 years, and the people that have to build and place those machines into the factories for them to being production, or the teams of people that remove said machines 15 minutes after the last car of that model design rolled off the floor, to make way for the new units to being production of the new cars that are mostly built by robots.

Yep, same industry from first half of the 19xx's. LMAO

we were promised flying cars by now but you mechanics are too fucking stupid to figure it out

instead we have smart phones

thanks a lot, college degree having mechanics

Sorry, blame science for not giving us a way to defy gravity or a cheap enough power source to run an object such as a flying car, without the cost being so absurd you could never market it.

We brought you helicopters, and those are kind of like flying cars though.

Nobody knows a friendly know-it-all. But most of us know a douche or two.

Interesting, everyone I know, knows a friendly know it all. Someone they count on and depend on. I'm a self proclaimed know it all, but and I've been the best man at three different weddings, and the man of honor at another. An honor you don't get if nobody liked me.:thumb:

Obviously to them, I"m not a douche, so you have a misconception about who I am, but I don't blame you. I come off as an asshole on forums because my grammar is proper and I wrote novels to explain how things work, instead of leaving you people in the dark about how an entire industry works. At least you're learning something new, and despite how much you dislike me or like me, you're becoming more enlightened. So I'm doing you a service whether you like it or not.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hootie may not have known the specifics of the business practices of mechanics, but he didn't start the thread with any ill intent, so why do you have to be such a fucking prick about it? He specifically posted the OP to ask a question b/c he didn't want to offend the mechanic; it could not have been more innocuous.

[HonestChieffan]

There are two parts to your post that are wrong.

1. That is exactly what you pay for, me having paid my dues. Do people go to an expensive Salon because they want to throw away money? Or do you think they want THE BEST haircut possible, regardless of the fact that it can be done as well at great clips.

Chances are, that stylist went to a very expensive school and was an understudy for some very popular and important artists before they got their job, and yes, they went to school for it and paid. So now they're taking in the dough for the dues they paid.

That same stylist at Walmart probably graduated from a 60 day or 90 day "beautician course" and earned their right to cut hair, not the same education, but that stylist wouldn't have a shot at working for the expensive salon, just as the stylist at the expensive salon wouldn't work at great clips unless they absolutely had to. Same applies here.

Same applies to the practices of law, practices of banking and trading.

2. You think I am against small business, yet I am just the opposite, I'm all for small business. One can argue that I'm actually detracting from my current employer, driving customers away to smaller businesses because it'll cost less to have the same work done.

I am all for the small businessman, I've created two small businesses already, and I hope to start the paperwork on my third very soon. I support small business in a way you might never understand because you aren't up to date on my day to day doings like some others might be, but trust me, I've done as much as I could possible due to add to the small business community, including an AMA on reddit, as well as hundreds of long, thoughtful posts on the entrepreneur section on thoughts and suggestions for people to run their business, or run it better.

I'm probably small business' #1 supporter on this website, I just have disdain for Jason because he attacked me first and hasn't let up because he's a ****tard and according to him I'm an "over-educated knowitall", as if you could ever be over-educated in life.

Wow. You are the man.

Now where did I say you were against small business? You work for a small business. I own a small business. I never said you were against small business.

I would assume you would go to hairstylist. Most mechanics, farmers, and others still go to barbers. But someone of your stature in your industry needs that extra flair. Not sure how your haircut became a point where I was wrong but thats ok.

Who does your hair anyway? Ill bet it looks marvelous!

[Exoter175]

I love mexicans because they work hard and aren't entitled...like us greedy Americans.

best blue collar workers in the country

You are misusing the word Entitled horrendously. Stop using that word.

Why would you remove a perfectly good duct tape repair. You could have reinforced it with spray foam and bondo.

Or just more duct tape.

I duct taped my bumper back together when I was 16 and couldn't afford a repair. It was awesome.

[Pablo]

Hootie may not have known the specifics of the business practices of mechanics, but he didn't start the thread with any ill intent, so why do you have to be such a fucking prick about it? He specifically posted the OP to ask a question b/c he didn't want to offend the mechanic; it could not have been more innocuous.

I think this guy has a Doctorate. It might not be in auto technology, but I think you two can converse on a similar level.

Oh, and thanks for the lesson. What a fascinating one it was.

[Exoter175]

Hootie may not have known the specifics of the business practices of mechanics, but he didn't start the thread with any ill intent, so why do you have to be such a fucking prick about it? He specifically posted the OP to ask a question b/c he didn't want to offend the mechanic; it could not have been more innocuous.

My first post wasn't laden with disdain for him, I simply explained to him how it works, what not to do, and what to expect. IT wasn't until after his panties got in a bunch that I really started to get on his case, or do you care to go read my first post again?

Wow. You are the man.

Now where did I say you were against small business? You work for a small business. I own a small business. I never said you were against small business.

I would assume you would go to hairstylist. Most mechanics, farmers, and others still go to barbers. But someone of your stature in your industry needs that extra flair. Not sure how your haircut became a point where I was wrong but thats ok.

Who does your hair anyway? Ill bet it looks marvelous!


"My observation is that you have a compulsive need to denigrate the ability, competence and customer service delivered by the guy in the independent shop in Nevada or Clinton, or wherever or the guy in the dealership in Butler or Garden City Kansas cause they are small town rubes."

Independent shop implies small business owner, by the way.

As for the hair stylist bit, it serves my point which you fail to understand.

At every level of service in this country, in this world, you are paying for the dues of others.

I don't work on your car unless there is a serious electrical or diagnostic problem that needs to get fixed. I get paid out the ass to do work on your car because I am specialized in the field with 6 years of education and 10+ years of experience.

The same is applied to hair stylists and barbers. There aren't just randomly expensive, elite barbers that people go to, to throw away good money, on an equal educational or experience level as someone at great clips, that isn't how this society works.

Someone with 50 years of barbers schooling and experience is going to charge more than someone with 50 days experience.

It is all completely relative to any service field where there is further training or education to be had.

My first love, computers, as an example. My first year out of high school, I would have been in the area of 36K, my first year out of college, closer to 62K, etc etc..

To deny that simple truth, is to admit ignorance of the fact.

[HonestChieffan]

Is this an internets persona or are you honestly this big a dickhead real time?

[Hootie]

My first post wasn't laden with disdain for him, I simply explained to him how it works, what not to do, and what to expect. IT wasn't until after his panties got in a bunch that I really started to get on his case, or do you care to go read my first post again?


I had gotten off of work and clicked on ChiefsPlanet...I was browsing the Pioli thread and noticed the thread I made earlier, which I assumed would be dead,m was still getting hits...

I read it and I was appalled by the fact you posted THAT post to an innocent question I had about installation cost for a side mirror.

At no point was I trying to offend mechanics, I simply wanted to know if I could kill two birds with one stone and do it for minimal cost.

I was told no by Bwana right away and that was that...

but instead you felt like you needed to talk down to me and tell me how fucking stupid I was...

and for no fucking reason.

So that is why I responded the way I responded to you. I couldn't believe you wasted an hour of your time to give me a 500,000 character life lesson I never needed or asked for.