As a QB prospect coming out of college, Geno Smith is greater than...?

[RealSNR]

Poll forthcoming.

Remember, we're talking about these players as prospects. I don't care what has happened to Jay Cutler or Brady Quinn or Aaron Rodgers. If you think those QBs had more to work with as potential pros, then check them off.

[Exoter175]

Damon Huard.


What do I win?

[Tribal Warfare]

Now among the HOFers at the start of their career I'd say Brett Favre. The guy was a turnover machine in his early years.

[Beeker]

Todd Marinovich
John Skelton
JaWalrus Russell
Ryan Leaf
Matt Leinart
Brady Quinn
Tyler Thigpen
Todd Blackledge
All the McCown's and McNown's
Charlie Whitehurst
Bubby Brister
Stan Humphries
Brandon Wheedon

[RealSNR]

Also, I would like to dedicate this thread to scho63.

There may be more on the way in the next weeks :thumb:

[KC native]

GENO IS TEH GOAT PROSPECT EVAR

[Consistent1]

KC Native made some good selections, jesus.

[KC native]

KC Native made some good selections, jesus.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1238965/sandlot-forever-o.gif

[rico]

One thing that I think will get overlooked in this poll is Matt Ryan. Coming out of college, my God that dude had some question marks that were consistently giving birth to baby question marks, imo. My goodness he threw a lot of INTs his Senior season. If you were to evaluate and compare the two, by looking exclusively at stats, I don't know how Geno (and many other of these other guys) couldn't be regarded as a better prospect. And I know, I know...we aren't supposed to make our choices in this poll due to just stats. Just saying, statistically speaking, Matt was shaky as hell and Geno is not given near the credit he deserves considering the numbers he put up and some of the games in which he put up those numbers, including his historic comp/attempts statline vs. LSU's notoriously tough defense in '11, vs. Clemson in the Orange Bowl '11, Baylor's shitty defense, but amazing stats nevertheless in '12, etc.)

To be honest, I thought the Falcons were smart to take a chance and attempt to get their guy and were obviously smart in doing so, for things haven't worked out too badly for the Ryan-led Falcons so far, but at the time, I didn't think the chances of him succeeding were very high, let alone succeeding as early as he did.

I am always hearing from people that Geno never faced legit defenses, which I think is hog-wash. Whenever I hear this claim, I immediately wonder who they are comparing him to and why the defenses he faced are being critiqued so harshly... Geno, from the time he was a Sophomore, consistently put up stats that range from similar to superior than the stats of RG3 and Luck. Was the competition that RG3 and Luck faced THAT much tougher than the competition RG3 and Luck faced in their college careers? Honest question, I don't know.

I also frequently hear from people that Geno's success was the result of the WV system and his offensive supporting cast. But when compared to Luck and RG3, did he really have THAT much better of a supporting cast than them? Luck had Decastro on his line...many people thought (and may still think) prior to his injury last season that Decastro was a "sure thing" to be a productive OL for many seasons. And RG3 was throwing to Kendall Wright, who was a first round pick himself, who I happen to believe is the real deal. He saved RG3's ass on multiple occasions at Baylor with some of his acrobatic catches on balls that appeared to be over-thrown.

Call me crazy, but I honestly almost chose RG3 as one who Geno is superior to in terms of being a prospect entering the draft, for RG3's injury risks seemed to be glaring to me with him being injured in 2009 and 2010. And it appears that these injury concerns regarding him are actually pretty legit considering the serious injury he sustained this season. Yeah, yeah, I am aware of RG3's potential/talent when not injured, his popularity, his intelligence off the field, etc., but for the long haul, I think Geno is a guy who can make his team a perennial contender and RG3 can obviously accomplish some things himself, but I think he is much more inclined to have a shortened career when compared to Geno.

How can this guy NOT be considered a potential elite QB prospect? Fo' realzies, I don get da hate/lack of cred.

[PA Chiefs]

What separates him from the top guys is he a plug and play guy, or does he need to sit a year. Some of those guys on the list maybe would of lived out their potential if they could have sat for a year or even two. But he is not as heralded as a lot of guys on this list. Whether he has a better career or not will be decided at a latter time. But just as what hype he has gotten I would say he is middle to bottom quarter on this list.

[MahiMike]

One thing that I think will get overlooked in this poll is Matt Ryan. Coming out of college, my God that dude had some question marks that were consistently giving birth to baby question marks, imo. My goodness he threw a lot of INTs his Senior season. If you were to evaluate and compare the two, by looking exclusively at stats, I don't know how Geno (and many other of these other guys) couldn't be regarded as a better prospect. And I know, I know...we aren't supposed to make our choices in this poll due to just stats. Just saying, statistically speaking, Matt was shaky as hell and Geno is not given near the credit he deserves considering the numbers he put up and some of the games in which he put up those numbers, including his historic comp/attempts statline vs. LSU's notoriously tough defense in '11, vs. Clemson in the Orange Bowl '11, Baylor's shitty defense, but amazing stats nevertheless in '12, etc.)

To be honest, I thought the Falcons were smart to take a chance and attempt to get their guy and were obviously smart in doing so, for things haven't worked out too badly for the Ryan-led Falcons so far, but at the time, I didn't think the chances of him succeeding were very high, let alone succeeding as early as he did.

I am always hearing from people that Geno never faced legit defenses, which I think is hog-wash. Whenever I hear this claim, I immediately wonder who they are comparing him to and why the defenses he faced are being critiqued so harshly... Geno, from the time he was a Sophomore, consistently put up stats that range from similar to superior than the stats of RG3 and Luck. Was the competition that RG3 and Luck faced THAT much tougher than the competition RG3 and Luck faced in their college careers? Honest question, I don't know.

I also frequently hear from people that Geno's success was the result of the WV system and his offensive supporting cast. But when compared to Luck and RG3, did he really have THAT much better of a supporting cast than them? Luck had Decastro on his line...many people thought (and may still think) prior to his injury last season that Decastro was a "sure thing" to be a productive OL for many seasons. And RG3 was throwing to Kendall Wright, who was a first round pick himself, who I happen to believe is the real deal. He saved RG3's ass on multiple occasions at Baylor with some of his acrobatic catches on balls that appeared to be over-thrown.

Call me crazy, but I honestly almost chose RG3 as one who Geno is superior to in terms of being a prospect entering the draft, for RG3's injury risks seemed to be glaring to me with him being injured in 2009 and 2010. And it appears that these injury concerns regarding him are actually pretty legit considering the serious injury he sustained this season. Yeah, yeah, I am aware of RG3's potential/talent when not injured, his popularity, his intelligence off the field, etc., but for the long haul, I think Geno is a guy who can make his team a perennial contender and RG3 can obviously accomplish some things himself, but I think he is much more inclined to have a shortened career when compared to Geno.

How can this guy NOT be considered a potential elite QB prospect? Fo' realzies, I don get da hate/lack of cred.

Not sure how you are tying Geno to Matty Ice. I think Nassib is more like Ryan than Geno. Keyword = Gamer.

[rico]

Not sure how you are tying Geno to Matty Ice. I think Nassib is more like Ryan than Geno. Keyword = Gamer.

Wasn't really trying to tie the two together for the sake of doing so...just kind of randomly thought about it when I was reading the poll results. Honestly, if Geno were in that 2008 draft class, I'd be more excited about him as a prospect than Matt Ryan. I know that sounds ridiculous now that Matt Ryan has proven himself a nice QB in the NFL so far, but I'm just basing it on how I perceived him as a prospect at the time compared to how I view Geno now...which I have a higher opinion of Geno then I did for Matt Ryan in 2008.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

We need more Geno threads!

[BlackHelicopters]

None, yet.

[keg in kc]

At this point (meaning draft time before any pro snaps by any of them) I would put him ahead of everyone on that list aside from Luck, Griffin, Aaron Rodgers (woefullly underdrafted) and Matt Stafford.

[O.city]

About even with tannehill IMO

[Saccopoo]

At this point (meaning draft time before any pro snaps by any of them) I would put him ahead of everyone on that list aside from Luck, Griffin, Aaron Rodgers (woefullly underdrafted) and Matt Stafford.

Luck.

Stafford, with a solid supporting cast and a great running game, never put up the elite level completion numbers at Georgia. Huge arm, but the accuracy issues were a concern.

Griffin wasn't considered an elite prospect by nearly everyone until 3/4's through his final college season, which was a marvelous year statistically. Most people thought of him as a Denard Robinson type player. And if anyone questions Geno stats based on the system, Baylor was running a true spread option versus the Air Raid which Geno ran at WV. His injury history was also a concern.

And Luck, while the most technically/fundamentally sound QB prospect I've seen over the last decade, did have an offensive line that featured two high round NFL draft picks and a top 20 defense. Geno's offensive line was a sieve and the defense his senior year was one of the worst in college football. He was constantly throwing from behind and forcing throws to keep his team in the game and he still put up numbers that were identical to Luck's final season in college.

Rogers had almost the exact same positives and negatives coming out of college as Geno does:

POSITIVES: Athletic passer with the physical skills and mental intangibles needed to lead a franchise at the next level. Quickly sets up in the pocket, sells ball fakes and technically very sound. Poised under the rush, steps up to avoid defenders and works to keep the play alive. Patient, buys time in the pocket and waits for receivers to come free. Does an excellent job with his reads and natural looking off the safety. Does not make mental errors and throws the ball away rather than toss the errant pass. Times the short and intermediate throws well, as receivers rarely wait for the ball out of their breaks. Outstanding vision and immediately spots the open receiver. Possesses a quick release, live arm and zips the outs or gets the ball downfield. Throws with touch. Sits in the pocket and takes a big hit in order to get the pass off. Fleet-footed and picks up yardage with his legs when necessary.

NEGATIVES: Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

And Rogers greatly benefitted from being able to sit for a couple of year behind Favre and correct those small negatives which allowed him to become one of the true elite QB's in the NFL. I think Geno has that same opportunity due to his skill set.

[The Bad Guy]

I would really love to know how people could vote that he was a better prospect coming out than Vick.

Vick was a tremendous prospect. Skill set wise, off the charts. Geno isn't in that ballpark.

[The Bad Guy]

Let's be honest here, Stafford didn't put up great completion % because he threw the ball consistently down the field. Geno's completion % were benefitted greatly from the short routes.

[Saccopoo]

Let's be honest here, Stafford didn't put up great completion % because he threw the ball consistently down the field. Geno's completion % were benefitted greatly from the short routes.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1354513/genoo8.gif

[The Bad Guy]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1354513/genoo8.gif

Nice pass.

It doesn't change the fact that Stafford played in a more vertical scheme at Georgia. The chart was posted about the majority of Geno's passes being short routes and screen passes.

I'm not knocking him, but I don't think he's the prospect Stafford was.

[ptlyon]

Ahhhh the promised Geno thread. Just in time too!

Well done SNR!

[WhawhaWhat]

Willie Beamen

[FringeNC]

Where's Case Keenum? Keenum put up better numbers in the exact same offense.

[Fat Elvis]

I think hindsight has really colored people's perception. I think Geno is only better than about five of the QBs on that list coming out of college: Ramsey, Grossman, Campbell, Leinart, and Tebow. Otherwise he is only as good or worse than the others. You put Geno in any system of the teams with a top ten pick this year other than the Chiefs or perhaps the Eagles and that guy will crash and burn. People will say, "Oh well, maybe he wasn't as good as we thought he was going to be; its a good thing we didn't draft him."

The bottom line is this: you can take a guy who was a really good QB in college and throw him in a dumpster fire and chances are he will get burned himself. While QB is the most important position in football, it is still a team sport. You still need to have some other pieces in place in order for a QB to succeed. Like him or not, Eli Manning understood this and refused to play for the Chargers because of this simple fact.

This is also one of the reasons why I'm not so down about us trading for ASmith. (We should of gotten him for free, but that is another discussion.) ASmith was thrown into a truly hot dumpster fire in SF, but seems to have come out of the other side. Will he be a great QB? I don't know. But I am willing to bet that he will be a better QB on the Chiefs than Geno will be on another team.

On the Chiefs, in Reid's system, I think Geno will make a fine QB. Coming out of college, however, I think most of those QBs on that list would of had fine careers if they were stepping into same situation that Alex or Geno or any other potential QB that the Chiefs might select in the draft.

[keg in kc]

Nice pass.

It doesn't change the fact that Stafford played in a more vertical scheme at Georgia. The chart was posted about the majority of Geno's passes being short routes and screen passes.

I'm not knocking him, but I don't think he's the prospect Stafford was.The simple fact is that you can't run as vertical a system with the offensive line WVU had versus Big 12 defenses (a statement which in and of itself should tell you how bad that line really was, because Big 12 defenses generally aren't all that...).

He had a couple of off games, but the reality is that he did an amazing job with what he had to work with, including losing their top running back for most of the season (Shawne Alston). I shudder to think what that offense would have looked like without Austin and Bailey.

And Bailey, in particular, is a reason why you'd feature shorter passing. You want to get the ball the hands of a player like that any way you can. That doesn't denote a weakness on Geno's part as much as an effort to take advantage of one of the school's few strengths (or two, if you count Smith's ability to get him the ball in a variety of ways).

That said, I'd agree with putting him behind Stafford, but that's only because of Stafford's insane arm strength. I'd probably favor Geno's passing skillset aside from that. And when I say behind, I don't mean very far behind.

[RealSNR]

Where's Case Keenum? Keenum put up better numbers in the exact same offense.

What do all of those QBs I listed have in common?

[RealSNR]

ROFL ROFL

Knowmo's responses are hilarious. Odd that he included Tim Tebow on his list. I guess that ship has sailed for him.

[Messier]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1354513/genoo8.gif

Hey look, a gif! This one play proves beyond a doubt that Smith consistently threw down field.

[Molitoth]

About even with tannehill IMO

Bullshit, lol.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Geno compares to Geno. And that's all Geno has to do in order to be better than the three fucking stooges we currently employ.
Posted via Mobile Device

[RealSNR]

Bullshit, lol.

I agree. I wanted the Chiefs to trade up for Tannehill last year, but even then I think the dude is vastly overrated by some guys on here.

[Hammock Parties]

I would really love to know how people could vote that he was a better prospect coming out than Vick.

Vick was a tremendous prospect. Skill set wise, off the charts. Geno isn't in that ballpark.

Have you even glanced at Vick's college production?

It's a fucking joke.

Not to mention the fact he was 6 feet tall, and that was a horrible QB class.

You want to look at a bad QB class...THAT was a bad QB class. Quincy Carter was the third QB off the board. ROFL

Geno > Vick as a prospect, easy. And he'll be a better pro.

[Dave Lane]

Damon Huard.


What do I win?

http://www.isdagram.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/full-retard.gif

[ModSocks]

This poll isn't going to work out well because of revisionists with bad memories and the Geno haters.

[The Bad Guy]

Have you even glanced at Vick's college production?

It's a ****ing joke.

Not to mention the fact he was 6 feet tall, and that was a horrible QB class.

You want to look at a bad QB class...THAT was a bad QB class. Quincy Carter was the third QB off the board. ROFL

Geno > Vick as a prospect, easy. And he'll be a better pro.

No I actually watched Vick with my own eyes while you were spying on your sister in th shower.

Vicks skill set was superior to Geno.

[The Bad Guy]

That Qb class was bad as a whole but the talent in that draft wasn't.

[HemiEd]

I would really love to know how people could vote that he was a better prospect coming out than Vick.

Vick was a tremendous prospect. Skill set wise, off the charts. Geno isn't in that ballpark.

I was just going to post the exact opposite, but we know about opinions.

It was my perception when Vick was coming out, that he was mainly a scrambler, run first guy.

I have never, ever been impressed with his ability to stay in the pocket under pressure to pass. He has always seemed to have happy feet and run. Am I wrong?

[Bowser]

It's been said before, but I'll say it again -

The worst thing Geno has done to negatively affect his draft stock was to enter the draft the year after Luck and RGIII. Most any other year he'd be considered a top 3 pick.

[Imon Yourside]

All this poll really tells us is who the haters are....better than no one? LMAO x gazillions

[ILChief]

This poll isn't going to work out well because of revisionists with bad memories and the Geno haters.

Yep, Tom Brady will be viewed as a great prospect hand Joey Harrington will be viewed as a terrible prospect

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I like the ones that bounce back and forth between love and hate depending upon whether or not picking him at one looks plausible on that given day. Fucking tools.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Imon Yourside]

Yep, Tom Brady will be viewed as a great prospect hand Joey Harrington will be viewed as a terrible prospect

I remember Harrington having a few strikes against him, I know he wasn't a can't miss for sure.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

"well ifz the chiefz dont pickz him, he CANTZ be good". Fucking tools.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Imon Yourside]

"well ifz the chiefz dont pickz him, he CANTZ be good". ****ing tools.
Posted via Mobile Device

"if we pick Joke-al, I will JIMP!!!!"

LMAO

"Save some money, trade Albert and Draft Luke..win win"

Dipshittery at it's finest.

[RealSNR]

"if we pick Joke-al, I will JIMP!!!!"

LMAO

"Save some money, trade Albert and Draft Luke..win win"

Dipshittery at it's finest.
Draft Luke, move Albert to guard. It's like you're getting two players for one pick!

[FringeNC]

What do all of those QBs I listed have in common?

Right. My point being that Air Raid quarterbacks should perhaps be compared against one another rather than QBs from other systems because Air Raid numbers can be crazy.

To me, Geno Smith is really hard to evaluate. In my mind, given the talent he played with, and given the system, his numbers are nothing special (Case Keenum, Seth Doege, etc.), but he does run a sub-4.6 and have a nice arm.

[RealSNR]

Right. My point being that Air Raid quarterbacks should perhaps be compared against one another rather than QBs from other systems because Air Raid numbers can be crazy.

To me, Geno Smith is really hard to evaluate. In my mind, given the talent he played with, and given the system, his numbers are nothing special (Case Keenum, Seth Doege, etc.), but he does run a sub-4.6 and have a nice arm.

Geno's Air Raid is pretty different from what Case Keenum ran. Drastically different, actually.

[Thig Lyfe]

Everybody except Tyler Thigpen.

[Thig Lyfe]

It's been said before, but I'll say it again -

The worst thing Geno has done to negatively affect his draft stock was to enter the draft the year after Luck and RGIII. Most any other year he'd be considered a top 3 pick.

Absolutely THIS. People have forgotten that most drafts don't have ANY "sure things" at any position, much less two of em in the most important position of all. The collective memory is short and cloudy.

[Imon Yourside]

Everybody and especially Tyler Thigpen.

fyp.

[RunKC]

Hindsight is strong in this thread.

And the worst thing Geno did was not enter the draft after Luck like people stupidly claim. He was well worth the first pick in September and October. He played worse as the year went on compared to his first handful of games. Can only blame himself.

[rico]

Hindsight is strong in this thread.

And the worst thing Geno did was not enter the draft after Luck like people stupidly claim. He was well worth the first pick in September and October. He played worse as the year went on compared to his first handful of games. Can only blame himself.

Yup.

[Chief_For_Life58]

GENO IS TEH GOAT PROSPECT EVAR

dis

[B14ckmon]

If he goes to the Jaguars he will be better than any of them. Geno to Blackmon will go down as the best combo since Young to Rice.

[Bowser]

Hindsight is strong in this thread.

And the worst thing Geno did was not enter the draft after Luck like people stupidly claim. He was well worth the first pick in September and October. He played worse as the year went on compared to his first handful of games. Can only blame himself.

Yeah, those six picks he threw all year are a real deal breaker.

He had bad games for him against K-State and Texas Tech. The Syracuse game was a pretty average game by anyone's standards, but a poorly called game by his coordinator.

The guy equaled RGIII's production his last year in college minus the rushing yards, but only has himself to blame. Makes zero sense whatsoever.

[Bowser]

If he goes to the Jaguars he will be better than any of them. Geno to Blackmon will go down as the best combo since Young to Rice.

You've really embraced this troll personna. Applause for you.

[RunKC]

Nice pass.

It doesn't change the fact that Stafford played in a more vertical scheme at Georgia. The chart was posted about the majority of Geno's passes being short routes and screen passes.

I'm not knocking him, but I don't think he's the prospect Stafford was.

From secondroundstats:


Geno throws a huge number of screens. Last year, the average quarterbacks threw screens 17% of the time. Smith threw screens on 30% of all his passes! Given that the success rate of screens is so high, that means his overall completion percentage is inflated.

His throws are close to the line of scrimmage. In total, 45% of his passes (including screens) were thrown within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.

That of course means he’s not throwing many deep passes. Only 27% of Geno’s passes went further than 10 yards, compared to 37% for the average quarterback.

http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/genosmithtargets.gif

http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/01/geno-smith-statistical-scouting-report/

And Geno's deep ball accuracy was below the average QB's as well.

The stats are on The Bad Guy's side.

[ayleswbj]

GENO VS CHASE

GENO

2010* West Virginia Big East SO QB 241 372 64.8 2763 7.4 7.9 24 7

2011* West Virginia Big East JR QB 346 526 65.8 4385 8.3 8.9 31 7 152.6
2012* West Virginia Big 12 SR QB 369 518 71.2 4205 8.1 9.2 42 6 163.9
Career West Virginia 988 1465 67.4 11662 8.0 8.7 98 21 153.5

CHASE:
2006* Missouri Big 12 SO QB 287 452 63.5 3527 7.8 8.0 28 10 145.1
2007* Missouri Big 12 JR QB 384 563 68.2 4306 7.6 7.9 33 11 147.9
2008* Missouri Big 12 SR QB 385 528 72.9 4335 8.2 8.2 39 18 159.4
Career Missouri 1094 1609 68.0 12515 7.8 7.9 101 41 148.9

Both ran identical forms of the spread, I imagine there careers will end up about the same. Take the left tackle, Alex gonna Ball!!

[keg in kc]

42 TD and 6 picks versus 39 TD and 18 picks.

Yep, they're the same.

Not to mention one of them is about 4'9.

[RunKC]

Yeah, those six picks he threw all year are a real deal breaker.

He had bad games for him against K-State and Texas Tech. The Syracuse game was a pretty average game by anyone's standards, but a poorly called game by his coordinator.

The guy equaled RGIII's production his last year in college minus the rushing yards, but only has himself to blame. Makes zero sense whatsoever.

Basically half of his overall TD's were in the first 4 games against mostly weak teams, then he had a fantastic game against Texas.

The problem was after that. He looked terrible the next 2 weeks, then solid against TCU, good and bad against OU (he should have have had 3 or 4 INT's in that game) and then just looked like an average joe QB the rest of the way.

I still believe Tavon Austin was just as big of a reason for WVU's success as Geno was.

Reminds me of how Percy Harvin made Tim Tebow look so incredible at Florida in 2008.

[ptlyon]

What do all of those QBs I listed have in common?

Theyre not Todd Blackledge?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Jesus, RunKC you are and idiot. "looked bad against OU". Idiot.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ayleswbj]

Also 150 more att, more career TD's, 600 more rushing YDS. Daniel exact height as drew Brees. 2 inch taller than Russel Wilson. Also won more games in college.

[B14ckmon]

You've really embraced this troll personna. Applause for you.

Not sure what you mean. A lot of people are thinking Geno to the Jaguars now. No one thinks the Chiefs will take him.

[RunKC]

Not sure what you mean. A lot of people are thinking Geno to the Jaguars now. No one thinks the Chiefs will take him.

That can't possibly be right. Sweet Dick Willie says we are taking Geno and he is the greatest QB prospect the world has ever seen!

[B14ckmon]

That can't possibly be right. Sweet Dick Willie says we are taking Geno and he is the greatest QB prospect the world has ever seen!

I wouldn't worry about Sweet Dick Willie. He only has 13 days left on this earth.

[ayleswbj]

42 TD and 6 picks versus 39 TD and 18 picks.

Yep, they're the same.

Not to mention one of them is about 4'9.


Were talking about as far as prospects go, Im pointing out what these offenses can make a QB look like. Had Geno put these numbers up in a pro style offense in the SEC, then I wouldnt even write on the board except to say take this guy or fold the fanchise. Fact is he is just a good prospect. you can lose on him just as easily win. Inflated numbers, just like the rest of em. He isnt even as athletic as chase was, or maybe he is, but he sure didnt show in on the field.

[RealSNR]

Were talking about as far as prospects go

Yes, we are.

You're not.

[RealSNR]

Nick Foles, Brandon Weeden, and Graham Harrell came from the same college systems. They put up roughly equal stats.

Weeden went in the first. He's also 3000 years old.

Foles went in the 4th. His stats weren't as impressive as the other two, but is thus far (arguably) having the most successful NFL career.

Harrell went undrafted.

Compare that, ya dick.

[KC native]

Basically half of his overall TD's were in the first 4 games against mostly weak teams, then he had a fantastic game against Texas.

The problem was after that. He looked terrible the next 2 weeks, then solid against TCU, good and bad against OU (he should have have had 3 or 4 INT's in that game) and then just looked like an average joe QB the rest of the way.

I still believe Tavon Austin was just as big of a reason for WVU's success as Geno was.

Reminds me of how Percy Harvin made Tim Tebow look so incredible at Florida in 2008.

ROFL TCU shut Geno down similar to how K State did. You are a moron.

[ayleswbj]

Really, Im not? what are you saying. Then what makes him a better prospect to be a Pro than these other guys? Combine numbers? College numbers? say something, When your talking about is he a better prospect to be a pro. Point out that Daniels always had to fight the height argument. Had he been 6'2 or 6'3 he would have been just as big prospect. His numbers and the Conference he played in, i give way more credit to Chase's career than i do Geno's career. Take Gabbert for instance, a Rivals 5 star prospect. Had his choice of anywhere. Rated the top Pro style qb coming out. Chose to play in a spread offense. Didnt really have that superstar career most thought as highly touted prospect, but his size and athleticism got him drafted really high. Having trouble right now adjusting to the game.

Geno's pedigree coming out of high school was just the same as Chase, didnt get the big offers he wanted and settled for a different school. Put up astonishing numbers in a spread offense and a super weak conference. as a prospect I dont put him ahead of alot of these guys. You only had to watch Cutler play one game in college to know he could sling the rock. Geno not so much, he has huge questions surrounding him and rightfully so. More QBs coming from the spread have failed than succeeded. It is just a fact. A few got it right of the bat, but most are long out of the league. Geno's predecessor Pat White included in this mix.

[blaise]

Browning Nagle.

[ayleswbj]

Nick Foles, Brandon Weeden, and Graham Harrell came from the same college systems. They put up roughly equal stats.

Weeden went in the first. He's also 3000 years old.

Foles went in the 4th. His stats weren't as impressive as the other two, but is thus far (arguably) having the most successful NFL career.

Harrell went undrafted.

Compare that, ya dick.


And this is the QB you want to take #1 overall, someone who is just as good as Grahm Harrell, Weedon and Foles? Thats a deep dark place your livin in. What are you even saying? Thought you wanted to talk prospects

[RealSNR]

And this is the QB you want to take #1 overall, someone who is just as good as Grahm Harrell, Weedon and Foles? Thats a deep dark place your livin in. What are you even saying? Thought you wanted to talk prospects

No. He's better than those three. You're the one who's extrapolating based on bullshit.

[Ace Gunner]

Browning Nagle.

:) J-E-T-S

[ayleswbj]

Well state what you mean, all you do is talk , bullshit this.. dick that.. this that and the other. You have absolutely nothing to say, except take a qb because the Chiefs havent done it in a long time. If Geno is an off the charts prospect, then why all the fuss? Why is every scout,coach ,writer and so on talking about the same things.

[RunKC]

Geno is a slightly better prospect than Weeden due to his age and athleticism, though I doubt he's be using his athleticism that much like Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson.

[Otter]

My vote is strictly based on the Geno mafia fags who made me hate him. They gonna scratch u eyes out if u no like Geeno!

[KC native]

Geno is a slightly better prospect than Weeden due to his age and athleticism, though I doubt he's be using his athleticism that much like Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson.

Slightly better than Weeden? I realize you hate Geno but JFC.

[RealSNR]

Well state what you mean, all you do is talk , bullshit this.. dick that.. this that and the other. You have absolutely nothing to say, except take a qb because the Chiefs havent done it in a long time. If Geno is an off the charts prospect, then why all the fuss? Why is every scout,coach ,writer and so on talking about the same things.

Lolwtf

I'm explaining myself plenty. Ask me a real fucking question and I'll answer it.

Otherwise go fist your sister and die.

[KC native]

Jesus, RunKC you are and idiot. "looked bad against OU". Idiot.
Posted via Mobile Device

He is just making shit up at this point.

[RealSNR]

My vote is strictly based on the Geno mafia pillowbiters who made me hate him. They gonna scratch u eyes out if u no like Geeno!Geno mafia.

You're cute.

[B14ckmon]

You guys are welcome to be Jaguars fans after we draft Geno. Open arms.

[RealSNR]

You guys are welcome to be Jaguars fans after we draft Geno. Open arms.

Change your logo to something less gay and I might consider it.

A gerbil would do the trick.

[ayleswbj]

Lolwtf

I'm explaining myself plenty. Ask me a real ****ing question and I'll answer it.

Otherwise go fist your sister and die.



AS A PROSPECT COMING OUT OF COLLEGE!!! WHAT MAKES GENO GREATER THAN ANY OF THESE OTHER GUYS YOU LISTED?

You make no case whatsoever. You say nothing. It is so funny, i just keep writing you laughing about the forum with you. YOur a magnet school kid arent you, you just have to be

[B14ckmon]

Change your logo to something less gay and I might consider it.

A gerbil would do the trick.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/7/20/1248112832429/A-box-of-tissues-001.jpg

[ayleswbj]

You and Geno Graduated Summa cum Laude didnt you

[The Bad Guy]

I was just going to post the exact opposite, but we know about opinions.

It was my perception when Vick was coming out, that he was mainly a scrambler, run first guy.

I have never, ever been impressed with his ability to stay in the pocket under pressure to pass. He has always seemed to have happy feet and run. Am I wrong?

His arm strength was also incredible. Of course he's wasn't a straight pocket passer coming out, and while he did have accuracy issues, he had a cannon arm and ran a 4.25 40 at the combine.

I'm strictly talking about how he was viewed as a prospect coming out. Yes, he had happy feet, yes he had issues in the pocket and with accuracy, but when a guy has that strong of an arm and that much speed, he's a great prospect.

[RealSNR]

AS A PROSPECT COMING OUT OF COLLEGE!!! WHAT MAKES GENO GREATER THAN ANY OF THESE OTHER GUYS YOU LISTED?

You make no case whatsoever. You say nothing. It is so funny, i just keep writing you laughing about the forum with you. YOur a magnet school kid arent you, you just have to be

Any of them?

Are you serious? Are you fucking serious? Have you even seen Geno play football? You don't see that it's obvious he's a better prospect coming out of college than Tim fucking Tebow? Or Akili Smith? Jason Campbell. Patrick Ramsey?

I'm just giving you easy ones. Cases can be made for him being a better prospect than 80% of those guys on that list coming out of college. If you're too fucking dense to comprehend the basics, though, I'm not going to bother confusing you when I get to the Jake Lockers and Christian Ponders.

Go away, fucktard.

[RealSNR]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/7/20/1248112832429/A-box-of-tissues-001.jpg

That's also less gay than the current logo.

I suppose I could roll with being a Jags fan after all.

[lcarus]

Think how much this place would explode if the Chiefs picked Geno as a shocker on draft day. CPocalypse.

[B14ckmon]

Think how much this place would explode if the Chiefs picked Geno as a shocker on draft day. CPocalypse.

Makes as much sense as me thinking about what if a God really did exist.

[Messier]

Makes as much sense as me thinking about what if a God really did exist.

I understand your atheism, being a Jags fan and everything.

[ayleswbj]

Say What you want about Tim Tebow as a pro, he is arguably the greatest college QB to ever play the game. And some NFL personnel thought he was worth a first round pick as a good prospect. Are you seriously putting Geno's numbers up against Tebows in College. Have you ever watched a football game, You are going by what you see now. Going against your own post. Tebows college career absolutely makes genos career look like the lingerie league. I have seen geno play and thats why i keep posting to not draft this fool number 1. Yes if you actually looked at your own F'n poll i voted he was a better prospect than Ramsey, Campbel. Also a few others, not many though. Maybe Leftwitch. They are about the same. Although Genos release isnt as bad as Byron's but it still sucks.

[B14ckmon]

I understand your atheism, being an intelligent thinking human being.

Of course.

[aturnis]

Have you even glanced at Vick's college production?

It's a fucking joke.

Not to mention the fact he was 6 feet tall, and that was a horrible QB class.

You want to look at a bad QB class...THAT was a bad QB class. Quincy Carter was the third QB off the board. ROFL

Geno > Vick as a prospect, easy. And he'll be a better pro.

This. Vick was raw in SOOOO many ways. Extremely raw passer, non existent mentally and a he'll of an athlete. Period.

The best thing he did for his professional career in college was stay out of major trouble. His natural athleticism did the rest.

Geno > Vick all day.

[aturnis]

Say What you want about Tim Tebow as a pro, he is arguably the greatest college QB to ever play the game. And some NFL personnel thought he was worth a first round pick as a good prospect. Are you seriously putting Geno's numbers up against Tebows in College. Have you ever watched a football game, You are going by what you see now. Going against your own post. Tebows college career absolutely makes genos career look like the lingerie league. I have seen geno play and thats why i keep posting to not draft this fool number 1. Yes if you actually looked at your own F'n poll i voted he was a better prospect than Ramsey, Campbel. Also a few others, not many though. Maybe Leftwitch. They are about the same. Although Genos release isnt as bad as Byron's but it still sucks.

You're an idiot. Tebow was a terrible pro prospect. The Broncos only picked him in the first b/c they had traded their way into a bevy of picks. If not for Denver, he wouldn't have gone in the first at all. What's more is, Tebow is still the same QB he was in college. He hasn't grown as a QB one bit.

[ayleswbj]

A case cannot be made for him being a better prospect than 80 % of these guys, now i think maybe his c*ck is so far down your throat your losing air. Please explain any of them and you can even pick your so called easy ones because you still after all this posting have not posted one single piece on why he is better than 80%. Baseless an downright fair weather. You still have nothing to say. this is actually fun watching your senseless insults all the while you look like the moron in the back of the class with nothing to say. I imagine this is where you have sat most of your life

[aturnis]

His arm strength was also incredible. Of course he's wasn't a straight pocket passer coming out, and while he did have accuracy issues, he had a cannon arm and ran a 4.25 40 at the combine.

I'm strictly talking about how he was viewed as a prospect coming out. Yes, he had happy feet, yes he had issues in the pocket and with accuracy, but when a guy has that strong of an arm and that much speed, he's a great prospect.

Yes, as an athlete, he was a better prospect. As a QB though, he was a rich man's version of Tebow.

[aturnis]

A case cannot be made for him being a better prospect than 80 % of these guys, now i think maybe his c*ck is so far down your throat your losing air. Please explain any of them and you can even pick your so called easy ones because you still after all this posting have not posted one single piece on why he is better than 80%. Baseless an downright fair weather. You still have nothing to say. this is actually fun watching your senseless insults all the while you look like the moron in the back of the class with nothing to say. I imagine this is where you have sat most of your life

What exactly do you see lacking in Geno's game?

NFL arm? Check
Reads defenses? Check
Decision making? Check
Accuracy? Check
Pocket presence? Check
Ability to run? Check
Etc...

[ayleswbj]

You're an idiot. Tebow was a terrible pro prospect. The Broncos only picked him in the first b/c they had traded their way into a bevy of picks. If not for Denver, he wouldn't have gone in the first at all. What's more is, Tebow is still the same QB he was in college. He hasn't grown as a QB one bit.


Really how can you say this? do YOu have insight to all the GMs in the NFL. And you spend your time posting on the message board. how do you know if he wouldnt have gone to another team. The broncos chose him because mcdaniels thought he was a winner and a great prospect he could work with. IT had nothing to do with all the picks. Are you actually saying that an NFL gm and coach said " hey we have lots of picks , so lets go an waist our 1st rounder on someone we think is a terrible project!" do you see how stupid this sounds now. And yes he is not a good pro, but this is not the discussion. It is about who is a good prospect because of there college career and what they have shown since. I think we dont have to argue he had a great college career, and had a much better combine than people thought. Which is why coaches an organizations thought they could work with him. Oh also dont forget he has has many playoffs wins as the Chiefs do in the past 19 seasons

[ayleswbj]

Id bet you would take a playoff win, wouldnt you?

[Messier]

I suck.

i understand.

[RealSNR]

A case cannot be made for him being a better prospect than 80 % of these guys, now i think maybe his c*ck is so far down your throat your losing air. Please explain any of them and you can even pick your so called easy ones because you still after all this posting have not posted one single piece on why he is better than 80%. Baseless an downright fair weather. You still have nothing to say. this is actually fun watching your senseless insults all the while you look like the moron in the back of the class with nothing to say. I imagine this is where you have sat most of your life
Okay. How about Tebow?

You and Josh McDaniels were apparently the only people who actually believed Tim Tebow would be a great pro QB.

The Geno argument right now is all about how high he's worth. Very very few people (except chodes like you and Nawrocki) believe he's likely to flat-out bust. At the very least Geno's work ethic and dedication would be enough to keep him around the league AT LEAST as long as Tebow has survived. And that's the worst case scenario.

Give me some others.

[RealSNR]

Really how can you say this? do YOu have insight to all the GMs in the NFL. And you spend your time posting on the message board. how do you know if he wouldnt have gone to another team. The broncos chose him because mcdaniels thought he was a winner and a great prospect he could work with. IT had nothing to do with all the picks. Are you actually saying that an NFL gm and coach said " hey we have lots of picks , so lets go an waist our 1st rounder on someone we think is a terrible project!" do you see how stupid this sounds now. And yes he is not a good pro, but this is not the discussion. It is about who is a good prospect because of there college career and what they have shown since. I think we dont have to argue he had a great college career, and had a much better combine than people thought. Which is why coaches an organizations thought they could work with him. Oh also dont forget he has has many playoffs wins as the Chiefs do in the past 19 seasons
ROFL ROFL

Are you seriously making the Ken Dorsey argument?

[ayleswbj]

What exactly do you see lacking in Geno's game?

NFL arm? Check
Reads defenses? Check
Decision making? Check
Accuracy? Check
Pocket presence? Check
Ability to run? Check
Etc...

Excuse me,Reads defenses? He played in a true spread predicated on going to the first read. This is something everyone in the footballworld knows. Which is why there is all the uproar about him being in such a weak class. Second are you out of your mind , ability to run? Where are you getting this, when has geno smith ever shown his ability to run in a game? His ENTIRE ENTIRE ENTIRE college career he totald 370 rushing yards. Pleas go on about his running and rushing ability. Accuracy in the spread, can we agree that is a PUSH. Who knows how accurate he really is. All the spread QBs are accurate, for instance guess who was also really really accurate in college. TIM TEBOW!! NFL arm yes ect ect

[keg in kc]

"Spread QB" stopped being a draft detrimental about 5 years ago.

[Bowser]

"Spread QB" stopped being a draft detrimental about 5 years ago.

Maybe that Brady or ROdgers guy will figure out how to properly run a spread offense sometime soon.*











*patiently waiting for the inevitable tarded YOU THINK GENO IS AS GOOD AS BRADY OR RODGERS comment

[ayleswbj]

"Spread QB" stopped being a draft detrimental about 5 years ago.


Did it really? ask Pat White, Tim Tebow, Case Keenum, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Grahm Harrell, Jake Locker, Alex Smith has had a tough time as well. He was one of the best spread QBs to play. The list goes on buddy, way way way more failures than success. not even close

[Messier]

Of course.

Also, not to get churchy, but don't throw around how "intelligent" people have the god scam figured out. I know a lot if extremely smart people, smarter than you most likely, that are Christian, and I also know several stupid atheists.

[keg in kc]

Did it really? ask Pat White, Tim Tebow, Case Keenum, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Grahm Harrell, Jake Locker, Alex Smith has had a tough time as well. He was one of the best spread QBs to play. The list goes on buddy, way way way more failures than success. not even closeYou're missing the point. Nearly every program in college utilizes the spread. Many if not most NFL teams have adapted their offenses to include spread elements. You aren't going to find many college QBs who haven't run the spread, and teams don't shy away from drafting spread QBs anymore. You mentioned several examples supporting that.

[Mr. Laz]

Someone better put SNR on suicide watch on draft day.

[RealSNR]

Someone better put SNR on suicide watch on draft day.

Why? I know the Chiefs aren't drafting Geno.

[RealSNR]

I'm pretty shocked by the Matt Ryan numbers. That should be a lot higher.

Matt Ryan was considered to be the best super shitty QB prospect in a super shitty draft for super shitty QB prospects. What 2013 is considered to be today. People apparently don't remember the verbal flaying that was done to Matt Ryan by the ESPN crew. They thought the Falcons made a shit pick.

[Brock]

Did it really? ask Pat White, Tim Tebow, Case Keenum, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Grahm Harrell, Jake Locker, Alex Smith has had a tough time as well. He was one of the best spread QBs to play. The list goes on buddy, way way way more failures than success. not even close

Way more failures than success, so it's exactly the same as every other kind of quarterback, huh?

[RealSNR]

Way more failures than success, so it's exactly the same as every other kind of quarterback, huh?

Stay away from USC QBs. Way more failures than successes going on over there.

[B14ckmon]

I'm pretty shocked by the Matt Ryan numbers. That should be a lot higher.

Matt Ryan was considered to be the best super shitty QB prospect in a super shitty draft for super shitty QB prospects. What 2013 is considered to be today. People apparently don't remember the verbal flaying that was done to Matt Ryan by the ESPN crew. They thought the Falcons made a shit pick.

Interesting. I wonder where the head of scouting for the Falcons at the time that personally advised Dimitroff to take Ryan, is now.

Oh shit, he's the GM of the Jacksonville Jaguars!

[ayleswbj]

You're missing the point. Nearly every program in college utilizes the spread. Many if not most NFL teams have adapted their offenses to include spread elements. You aren't going to find many college QBs who haven't run the spread, and teams don't shy away from drafting spread QBs anymore. You mentioned several examples supporting that.


No no no , you just said it best. Colleges implement ELEMENTS, not true spread. which Geno played in along with many others. Teams absolutely shy away from drafting these guys high. That's why guys like Keenum, Harrell and so on don't get drafted or go in the 6th.


Take a look at this year's premier NFL quarterbacks: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford and Eli Manning. They all share two things in common. Each has a significant history of working under center -- and for each, his arm separates him, not his legs.

The NFL is a quarterback-driven league, with smart signal-callers who win by throwing the ball accurately and on time. But at the college and high school levels, there's more of a willingness to accept a less-than-ideal passer who is an extraordinary athlete.

Prior to the explosion of the spread offense in the past 10-15 years, the core foundation of the quarterback position was learning to play under center. You dropped back from under center, read coverages from under center, made pre-snap assessments from under center. Everything you learned was about footwork, timing and reading defenses on the move.

Now, almost all you see in high school and college is the spread formation, so quarterbacks lack repetitions under center, which has led to a lack of fundamentals at the position. Every year I go out to camps and combines and see kids with multiple BCS offers who struggle to take a five-step drop, hit their fifth step and get the ball out. It can be staggering how many can't do it.

The reason for this is that from a coach's perspective, your mindset is to force defenses to have to defend your quarterback's ability to run. You implement some option principles into that mentality and it really puts a lot of strain on the defense. In high school, coaches take their best player and put him in the Wildcat formation, and if he has any promise as a passer he is going to get a long look from college coaches.

Pro-style quarterbacks who thrive in college -- like Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck -- are few and far between. There are 120 FBS teams, and it's hard to name more than five that have a base offense that includes two running backs and a tight end (the classic pro-style formation). That formation has a heavy emphasis on a power running game, and the quarterback's purpose is to win with his arm and his mind, which is essentially how the game is played at the NFL level. In these types of schemes, you will find the quarterback asked to throw less frequently but to make more challenging throws when he does drop back. Rather than throwing bubble screens or quick routes, the pro-style QB attacks the short, intermediate and deep areas of the field.

One of the reasons we've seen such a huge spike in completion percentages in college football is because of the short, controlled passing game that features numerous throws near the line of scrimmage. Think Oregon. So a pro-style QB like Andrew Luck completing 70 percent of his passes is much more impressive to NFL evaluators than a spread QB with a similar completion percentage.

However, you are starting to see guys like Cam Newton and Tim Tebow, who came from the spread in college, begin to enjoy success in the NFL. Their pro teams were willing to break the mold of conventional quarterback play to allow their more athletic quarterbacks to make plays with their legs. Newton and Tebow are the freakiest of freak athletes, however, so it's unlikely other teams will be able to duplicate their success in a league where linebackers and defensive ends are running 4.5-second 40s.

The key for NFL coaches and scouts when evaluating spread quarterbacks is to figure out how intricate their spread offense was. How complex were the protections and blitz-pickup principles? What were they asked to do at the line of scrimmage? Could they hit their intermediate and deep passes when those plays were called? That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.

Behind closed doors, there are probably a lot of offensive coaches in the NFL who would love to have the dynamic threat of a player like Cam Newton at quarterback. There are some creative things you can do with players like that. But in a league where elite quarterback play is at a premium, most coaches are going to be fearful of jeopardizing the health of the most important player on their roster. The risk of injury is high for quarterbacks to begin with, never mind when you ask him to take even more direct shots as a runner.

The bottom line is this: While NFL quarterbacks are becoming more and more athletic, we are a long way from seeing a college-style spread offense dominate at the pro level.

Not my words, just good insight to the failures of many spread QBs

[ayleswbj]

Way more failures than success, so it's exactly the same as every other kind of quarterback, huh?

Are you seriously gonna argue that these gimmick guys have a better success rate than pro-style QBs?

[Brock]

Are you seriously gonna argue that these gimmick guys have a better success rate than pro-style QBs?

Can you read?

[Saccopoo]

Hindsight is strong in this thread.

And the worst thing Geno did was not enter the draft after Luck like people stupidly claim. He was well worth the first pick in September and October. He played worse as the year went on compared to his first handful of games. Can only blame himself.

Don't be an idiot.

The Texas Tech and Kansas State games were the two worst of the season for Geno and he still had a QB rating over 100 for both of those games.

After those two games, he ramped up statistically every single game and finished the season with his best game of the year versus Kansas were he had a 271 rating (even higher than the Baylor game).

He was very good in both the OU and ISU games and, as stated, did shit against KU that most QB's can't do against air.

[B14ckmon]

I need to just accept that my team is drafting Geno. As much as I hate to do it.

[Saccopoo]

Why? I know the Chiefs aren't drafting Geno.

I'm beginning to believe that they are...

[B14ckmon]

I'm beginning to believe that they are...

ROFL

[Chiefs=Champions]

ROFL

If cockmon thinks they arnt they probably are..

[B14ckmon]

If cockmon thinks they arnt they probably are..

I honestly just feel sorry for you Geno guys. It's so blatantly obvious that they aren't, but you just keep on hoping. It's almost depressing to watch.

[Saccopoo]

I honestly just feel sorry for you Geno guys. It's so blatantly obvious that they aren't, but you just keep on hoping. It's almost depressing to watch.

When the Jags take Joeckel...

[B14ckmon]

When the Jags take Joeckel...

Yea that isn't happening. Sorry bud.

[Ace Gunner]

No no no , you just said it best. Colleges implement ELEMENTS, not true spread. which Geno played in along with many others. Teams absolutely shy away from drafting these guys high. That's why guys like Keenum, Harrell and so on don't get drafted or go in the 6th.


Take a look at this year's premier NFL quarterbacks: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford and Eli Manning. They all share two things in common. Each has a significant history of working under center -- and for each, his arm separates him, not his legs.

The NFL is a quarterback-driven league, with smart signal-callers who win by throwing the ball accurately and on time. But at the college and high school levels, there's more of a willingness to accept a less-than-ideal passer who is an extraordinary athlete.

Prior to the explosion of the spread offense in the past 10-15 years, the core foundation of the quarterback position was learning to play under center. You dropped back from under center, read coverages from under center, made pre-snap assessments from under center. Everything you learned was about footwork, timing and reading defenses on the move.

Now, almost all you see in high school and college is the spread formation, so quarterbacks lack repetitions under center, which has led to a lack of fundamentals at the position. Every year I go out to camps and combines and see kids with multiple BCS offers who struggle to take a five-step drop, hit their fifth step and get the ball out. It can be staggering how many can't do it.

The reason for this is that from a coach's perspective, your mindset is to force defenses to have to defend your quarterback's ability to run. You implement some option principles into that mentality and it really puts a lot of strain on the defense. In high school, coaches take their best player and put him in the Wildcat formation, and if he has any promise as a passer he is going to get a long look from college coaches.

Pro-style quarterbacks who thrive in college -- like Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck -- are few and far between. There are 120 FBS teams, and it's hard to name more than five that have a base offense that includes two running backs and a tight end (the classic pro-style formation). That formation has a heavy emphasis on a power running game, and the quarterback's purpose is to win with his arm and his mind, which is essentially how the game is played at the NFL level. In these types of schemes, you will find the quarterback asked to throw less frequently but to make more challenging throws when he does drop back. Rather than throwing bubble screens or quick routes, the pro-style QB attacks the short, intermediate and deep areas of the field.

One of the reasons we've seen such a huge spike in completion percentages in college football is because of the short, controlled passing game that features numerous throws near the line of scrimmage. Think Oregon. So a pro-style QB like Andrew Luck completing 70 percent of his passes is much more impressive to NFL evaluators than a spread QB with a similar completion percentage.

However, you are starting to see guys like Cam Newton and Tim Tebow, who came from the spread in college, begin to enjoy success in the NFL. Their pro teams were willing to break the mold of conventional quarterback play to allow their more athletic quarterbacks to make plays with their legs. Newton and Tebow are the freakiest of freak athletes, however, so it's unlikely other teams will be able to duplicate their success in a league where linebackers and defensive ends are running 4.5-second 40s.

The key for NFL coaches and scouts when evaluating spread quarterbacks is to figure out how intricate their spread offense was. How complex were the protections and blitz-pickup principles? What were they asked to do at the line of scrimmage? Could they hit their intermediate and deep passes when those plays were called? That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.

Behind closed doors, there are probably a lot of offensive coaches in the NFL who would love to have the dynamic threat of a player like Cam Newton at quarterback. There are some creative things you can do with players like that. But in a league where elite quarterback play is at a premium, most coaches are going to be fearful of jeopardizing the health of the most important player on their roster. The risk of injury is high for quarterbacks to begin with, never mind when you ask him to take even more direct shots as a runner.

The bottom line is this: While NFL quarterbacks are becoming more and more athletic, we are a long way from seeing a college-style spread offense dominate at the pro level.

Not my words, just good insight to the failures of many spread QBs

ya, I agree with your points. For example, Newton has a big arm, but he hasn't got used to the speed of the NFL, so he doesn't succeed that often. Sometimes Newton seems to just stare into space, he doesn't recognize defense and he ends up tucking and running.

[RunKC]

Don't be an idiot.

The Texas Tech and Kansas State games were the two worst of the season for Geno and he still had a QB rating over 100 for both of those games.

After those two games, he ramped up statistically every single game and finished the season with his best game of the year versus Kansas were he had a 271 rating (even higher than the Baylor game).

He was very good in both the OU and ISU games and, as stated, did shit against KU that most QB's can't do against air.

Don't be a homer Sac. Geno was confused and completely outclassed in the Texas Tech and KSU game. I don't give a shit what his QBR was. He didn't score points. His offense was owned on both days.

It's ridiculous how people think Geno is a better QB prospect than most of these QB's.

The funniest part of this is people saying they would take Geno Smith over Alex Smith. Alex Smith was a #1 pick and over Rodgers. That's how good of a prospect he was.

Teams are cautious of Geno Smith. They've even signed/traded for veteran QB's instead. Says a lot about this QB class when the QB needy teams with high draft picks bring in veteran guys.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That can't possibly be right. Sweet Dick Willie says we are taking Geno and he is the greatest QB prospect the world has ever seen!

And Sweet Dick is more right than you will evar be.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Saccopoo]

Don't be a homer Sac. Geno was confused and completely outclassed in the Texas Tech and KSU game. I don't give a shit what his QBR was. He didn't score points. His offense was owned on both days.

It's ridiculous how people think Geno is a better QB prospect than most of these QB's.

The funniest part of this is people saying they would take Geno Smith over Alex Smith. Alex Smith was a #1 pick and over Rodgers. That's how good of a prospect he was.

Teams are cautious of Geno Smith. They've even signed/traded for veteran QB's instead. Says a lot about this QB class when the QB needy teams with high draft picks bring in veteran guys.

I watched Alex Smith in college. A lot.

He doesn't have the same skill set/tools that Geno has.

And I live in Utah. Went to the University of Utah my freshman year. My grandfather taught at the U of U. Nearly every single one of my family members has either graduated from Utah or attended Utah. I've had season tickets for the past five years. I can be a homer if you want, but I'm being objective instead.

Geno Smith is better than Alex Smith at the same stage. Period.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

RunKC pwnd. Harshly.
Posted via Mobile Device

[aturnis]

Excuse me,Reads defenses? He played in a true spread predicated on going to the first read. This is something everyone in the footballworld knows. Which is why there is all the uproar about him being in such a weak class. Second are you out of your mind , ability to run? Where are you getting this, when has geno smith ever shown his ability to run in a game? His ENTIRE ENTIRE ENTIRE college career he totald 370 rushing yards. Pleas go on about his running and rushing ability. Accuracy in the spread, can we agree that is a PUSH. Who knows how accurate he really is. All the spread QBs are accurate, for instance guess who was also really really accurate in college. TIM TEBOW!! NFL arm yes ect ect

The fact that you think Geno played in a pure spread tells me you know not of what you speak. Just spouting off what you read in an idiots article? Geno played in an Air Raid offense and made up to 3 reads per play. Did you watch he and Gruden break down the film? Geno made his reads, made smart decisions, and is very accurate. It's not a push. Tebow never looked like a pro QB at any point in his college career. He was and ungodly lucky guy.

[aturnis]

No no no , you just said it best. Colleges implement ELEMENTS, not true spread. which Geno played in along with many others. Teams absolutely shy away from drafting these guys high. That's why guys like Keenum, Harrell and so on don't get drafted or go in the 6th.


Take a look at this year's premier NFL quarterbacks: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford and Eli Manning. They all share two things in common. Each has a significant history of working under center -- and for each, his arm separates him, not his legs.

The NFL is a quarterback-driven league, with smart signal-callers who win by throwing the ball accurately and on time. But at the college and high school levels, there's more of a willingness to accept a less-than-ideal passer who is an extraordinary athlete.

Prior to the explosion of the spread offense in the past 10-15 years, the core foundation of the quarterback position was learning to play under center. You dropped back from under center, read coverages from under center, made pre-snap assessments from under center. Everything you learned was about footwork, timing and reading defenses on the move.

Now, almost all you see in high school and college is the spread formation, so quarterbacks lack repetitions under center, which has led to a lack of fundamentals at the position. Every year I go out to camps and combines and see kids with multiple BCS offers who struggle to take a five-step drop, hit their fifth step and get the ball out. It can be staggering how many can't do it.

The reason for this is that from a coach's perspective, your mindset is to force defenses to have to defend your quarterback's ability to run. You implement some option principles into that mentality and it really puts a lot of strain on the defense. In high school, coaches take their best player and put him in the Wildcat formation, and if he has any promise as a passer he is going to get a long look from college coaches.

Pro-style quarterbacks who thrive in college -- like Matt Barkley and Andrew Luck -- are few and far between. There are 120 FBS teams, and it's hard to name more than five that have a base offense that includes two running backs and a tight end (the classic pro-style formation). That formation has a heavy emphasis on a power running game, and the quarterback's purpose is to win with his arm and his mind, which is essentially how the game is played at the NFL level. In these types of schemes, you will find the quarterback asked to throw less frequently but to make more challenging throws when he does drop back. Rather than throwing bubble screens or quick routes, the pro-style QB attacks the short, intermediate and deep areas of the field.

One of the reasons we've seen such a huge spike in completion percentages in college football is because of the short, controlled passing game that features numerous throws near the line of scrimmage. Think Oregon. So a pro-style QB like Andrew Luck completing 70 percent of his passes is much more impressive to NFL evaluators than a spread QB with a similar completion percentage.

However, you are starting to see guys like Cam Newton and Tim Tebow, who came from the spread in college, begin to enjoy success in the NFL. Their pro teams were willing to break the mold of conventional quarterback play to allow their more athletic quarterbacks to make plays with their legs. Newton and Tebow are the freakiest of freak athletes, however, so it's unlikely other teams will be able to duplicate their success in a league where linebackers and defensive ends are running 4.5-second 40s.

The key for NFL coaches and scouts when evaluating spread quarterbacks is to figure out how intricate their spread offense was. How complex were the protections and blitz-pickup principles? What were they asked to do at the line of scrimmage? Could they hit their intermediate and deep passes when those plays were called? That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.

Behind closed doors, there are probably a lot of offensive coaches in the NFL who would love to have the dynamic threat of a player like Cam Newton at quarterback. There are some creative things you can do with players like that. But in a league where elite quarterback play is at a premium, most coaches are going to be fearful of jeopardizing the health of the most important player on their roster. The risk of injury is high for quarterbacks to begin with, never mind when you ask him to take even more direct shots as a runner.

The bottom line is this: While NFL quarterbacks are becoming more and more athletic, we are a long way from seeing a college-style spread offense dominate at the pro level.

Not my words, just good insight to the failures of many spread QBs

They don't shy away from them b/c they are spread dumbass. They stay away b/c they're short, they have terrible mechanics, or b/c they have no arm, any number of reasons, and they're pretty well documented. Tebow was scrutinized heavily for having terrible mechanics, it's why he nearly fell out of the first round. Get a clue.

[ayleswbj]

They don't shy away from them b/c they are spread dumbass. They stay away b/c they're short, they have terrible mechanics, or b/c they have no arm, any number of reasons, and they're pretty well documented. Tebow was scrutinized heavily for having terrible mechanics, it's why he nearly fell out of the first round. Get a clue.


Please, Here you go. Scouting report on Geno Smith from Pro football weekly. You can find tons of articles talking about his poor mechanics and everything else. HE ll be drafted high because this class is terrible, but he is the best "terrible one of them all" so take him first.

Nawrocki has now issued scouting reports for Geno Smith and Matt Barkley, regarded as the top two quarterback prospects in this year’s draft. And at a time when many believe Smith will be taken before Barkley, Nawrocki calls Barkley a first-round pick and Smith merely a “top-50 pick.”

Apart from Nawrocki’s critique of Smith’s mechanics, Nawrocki adds this assessment of Smith: “Not a student of the game. Nonchalant field presence — does not command respect from teammates and cannot inspire. Mild practice demeanor — no urgency. Not committed or focused — marginal work ethic. Interviewed poorly at the Combine and did not show an understanding of concepts on the white board. Opted not to compete at the Senior Bowl and has approached offseason training as if he has already arrived and it shows in his body with minimal muscle definition or strength. Has small hands and glaring ball security issues (32 career fumbles). Really struggled handling the snow in Pinstripe Bowl (took two safeties) and will be troubled by the elements. Needed to be coddled in college — cannot handle hard coaching.”

Nawrocki then makes a strong prediction about Smith’s future. “Smith is a gimmick, overhyped product of the system lacking the football savvy, work habits and focus to cement a starting job and could drain energy from a QB room,” Nawrocki writes. “Will be overdrafted and struggle to produce against NFL defensive complexities.”

Smith will indeed be drafted high, due to the possibility that his positives eventually will outweigh his negatives, allowing him to become the one thing every team needs: A franchise quarterback. If enough teams agree with Nawrocki, however, Smith may not be drafted as high as some would believe.

[ayleswbj]

The fact that you think Geno played in a pure spread tells me you know not of what you speak. Just spouting off what you read in an idiots article? Geno played in an Air Raid offense and made up to 3 reads per play. Did you watch he and Gruden break down the film? Geno made his reads, made smart decisions, and is very accurate. It's not a push. Tebow never looked like a pro QB at any point in his college career. He was and ungodly lucky guy.

Get Real with yourself man, The air-raid offense is a spread. Predicated on the screen game moving around the H and Y recievers. Invented by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and brought to WV by Dana Holgerson who puts his own spin on it. As a matter of fact its even more spread disguised by the use of traditional formations such as 1 RB to 3 RB. Dress it up how you want to try and convince people Geno played in a PRO-STYLE. He did not. IF your a mid west guy then theres a good chance you have watch a lot of Big 12 football and you would already know this. Or maybe you just a geno fan. Grudens show is made for TV. Find one show where he actually says anything bad about a guy. He gives little funny back handed criticism. Post one show where he says to the guy, No way in hell would i take you in the first round or the draft or draft you at all. Just watch him an Tebow together. Its all the same. Terrible use of an example, Like telling an actor watch this soap opera and then go win an Oscar.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

LMAO he pulls out the Nawrocki horseshit as "the gospel". Moran.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Saccopoo]

Get Real with yourself man, The air-raid offense is a spread. Predicated on the screen game moving around the H and Y recievers. Invented by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and brought to WV by Dana Holgerson who puts his own spin on it. As a matter of fact its even more spread disguised by the use of traditional formations such as 1 RB to 3 RB. Dress it up how you want to try and convince people Geno played in a PRO-STYLE. He did not. IF your a mid west guy then theres a good chance you have watch a lot of Big 12 football and you would already know this. Or maybe you just a geno fan. Grudens show is made for TV. Find one show where he actually says anything bad about a guy. He gives little funny back handed criticism. Post one show where he says to the guy, No way in hell would i take you in the first round or the draft or draft you at all. Just watch him an Tebow together. Its all the same. Terrible use of an example, Like telling an actor watch this soap opera and then go win an Oscar.

Curious, but did you read Gruden's comments on ESPN Insider regarding Geno?

As well, Nawrocki's comments have been debunked by multiple objective sources that spent a considerable amount of time around Geno. The guy was making shit up for whatever reason and his little "scouting report" borders on slanderous.

In addition, perhaps you could use some paragraphing in your posts. They are fucking painful to read. Let me quote you:

"Sofndofiansaosigydagio8y afoindogihewoitheawoithaos alshdfodsighoidghads adsghoihen. Boaidfhairo3e4uy3 asdkrjhfweoi o93eutrq0g98habn foewnvgoiuawetr. Roafnioeutgahnab afkdighaoi3rtu9 afdaisgh aoighd aoigdjhao0tegahra aldgjoetru489hgreoiajhfdnafbn adikgaoitgoaeg. Gaoighjoreihsiobnoiga aoitgeiotgw aoigre aoig aigoewtruy890gibrnai ghjoiahteriythga. Ragihdsoigajhoaigjaoi agbniatruo3w4eu aoigjab;rdgi aoigd aoitreu89rqbhoige ghjoisrhjsoi soihrd oer oasihjaoritoirejgrp. Ziortoi oreity roi oabjghroiea aoret098hsfhjfdkljghjre oaireoijahroijoasijgklfd. Wiogerjoigj eori oseigrjoijahsp roe osigrjhreawph8 groejawoigjahoigjho oarei oaser fbovd ofg oghhaghlahgoiregap oaegrjhoigre oegreh hreiothj htor stre iorep. Yreiotu psg sogr. Tfdsikgj hotrw ht itroh owsihp sohjps."

[RealSNR]

According to patteeu we shouldn't call out this n00b dipshit's crap that he's trying to pedal. We should be nice to him and say worthless garbage like, "That's okay if you think Geno isn't a good player. We're just glad to have you on board, buddy!"

Tell us patteeu. How should people who disagree with ayleswbj respond to his points? Teach us so that we may not become brownshirts in your eyes, and can bring the peace to Chiefs Planet that you so desperately want to have!

[The Bad Guy]

QB rating of 100 in college is nothing special, at all. The rating of 100 in college is the equivalent of 69 in the NFL.

[B14ckmon]

QB rating of 100 in college is nothing special, at all. The rating of 100 in college is the equivalent of 69 in the NFL.

...I think people need to learn the difference between QBR and Passer Rating.

[The Bad Guy]

...I think people need to learn the difference between QBR and Passer Rating.

I know the difference between QBR and Passer rating.

Sacco stated that Geno had a passer rating over 100 for each of his terrible games. That's not some high benchmark because the passer rating formula is completely different for the NFL compared to NCAA.

[B14ckmon]

I know the difference between QBR and Passer rating.

Sacco stated that Geno had a passer rating over 100 for each of his terrible games. That's not some high benchmark because the passer rating formula is completely different for the NFL compared to NCAA.

Yea, I wasn't referring to you.

[ayleswbj]

Curious, but did you read Gruden's comments on ESPN Insider regarding Geno?

As well, Nawrocki's comments have been debunked by multiple objective sources that spent a considerable amount of time around Geno. The guy was making shit up for whatever reason and his little "scouting report" borders on slanderous.

In addition, perhaps you could use some paragraphing in your posts. They are ****ing painful to read. Let me quote you:



By who? Multiple who? Guess you are a Geno fan. So now the writer for pro football weekly is making things up? You are comical, actually ur cute. So funny. What about grudens comments? same ol shit. who is debunking these articles? you have not idea

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

By who? Multiple who? Guess you are a Geno fan. So now the writer for pro football weekly is making things up? You are comical, actually ur cute. So funny. What about grudens comments? same ol shit. who is debunking these articles? you have not idea

Go fist yourself.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I still find it hilarious people use the term Geno Mafia, heh

[BossChief]

I'm beginning to believe that they are...

I am far more believing that they might now, than 3 months ago.

They have made a lot of comments and actions that Indicate they are seriously interested in drafting him.

Especially John Dorseys bit on drafting Rodgers and sitting him for 3 years and "they will do it again if they have to"

To me, that meant they would take him at 1 if they can't trade down.

[Hootie]

paying Geno 6M and Alex 8M is still 8M less than the Ravens pay Joe Fucking Flacco

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Plus they'd acquire both for the same round picks the Faid dealt for a broken Palmer

[BossChief]

And half the draft compensation Washington gave up for RG3/Cousins.

[RunKC]

I am far more believing that they might now, than 3 months ago.

They have made a lot of comments and actions that Indicate they are seriously interested in drafting him.

Especially John Dorseys bit on drafting Rodgers and sitting him for 3 years and "they will do it again if they have to"

To me, that meant they would take him at 1 if they can't trade down.

Just wow. You are trying to fit square pegs into round holes because you think it will actually work. ROFL

[ChiefAshhole20]

Lol at the 4 who picked Luck

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

B14ckmon, Chief_For_Life58, JBucc, KC native

These people actually think he's better than Andrew Luck.

If ANYBODY ever deserved the ignore feature it would be these people or we can just chalk it up to them being idiots.

[B14ckmon]

B14ckmon, Chief_For_Life58, JBucc, KC native

These people actually think he's better than Andrew Luck.

If ANYBODY ever deserved the ignore feature it would be these people or we can just chalk it up to them being idiots.

Luck had a ridiculously overrated rookie season, but he was a much better prospect than Geno. As was RG3. So I have no idea why you are lumping me in with those people. I have been getting shit on this forum for months for saying Geno isn't as good as many here think.

In other words I am saying you're a fucking retard who just wanted to type my name for eroticy reasons.

[doomy3]

Luck had a ridiculously overrated rookie season, but he was a much better prospect than Geno. As was RG3. So I have no idea why you are lumping me in with those people. I have been getting shit on this forum for months for saying Geno isn't as good as many here think.

In other words I am saying you're a ****ing retard who just wanted to type my name for eroticy reasons.

He's lumping you in with them because you voted that Geno is a better prospect coming out of college than Luck, you fucking idiot.

Some of the players people are saying Geno is a better prospect than coming out are absolutely hilarious.

[RealSNR]

B14ckmon, Chief_For_Life58, JBucc, KC native

These people actually think he's better than Andrew Luck.


http://cdn2.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1229/troll_2956879_thumb.jpg

[Mr. Laz]

I think people are forgetting how good of a prospect some of these guys were.


No way is Geno Smith a better prospect than Alex Smith.


It didn't turn out that way but still

I don't see how you could say he's a better prospect than Brady Quinn either.

[RealSNR]

I don't see how you could say he's a better prospect than Brady Quinn either.

Sure you could.

I agreed when it came to a QB like Matt Leinart. That's where your observation applies, but not on wet farts like Brady Quinn, who always was a wet fart and will always be a wet fart.

[Bowser]

I think people are forgetting how good of a prospect some of these guys were.


No way is Geno Smith a better prospect than Alex Smith.


It didn't turn out that way but still

I don't see how you could say he's a better prospect than Brady Quinn either.

Brady Quinn got run because he was on NBC all the time, and the national media likes to fellate Notre Dame. Quinn can't touch the QB Geno is, then or now.

I don't remember much of Alex at Utah outside of them going undefeated and running the spread before it became super popular.

[Saccopoo]

Brady Quinn got run because he was on NBC all the time, and the national media likes to fellate Notre Dame. Quinn can't touch the QB Geno is, then or now.

I don't remember much of Alex at Utah outside of them going undefeated and running the spread before it became super popular.

I watched Alex a ton in college.

He's not the prospect Geno is at the same stage. Geno has a better arm, better ball placement on deep throws, better size, better pocket awareness, better timing.

Alex Smith was a legit first rounder with very good accuracy, very smart, exceptionally hard worker, good athleticism and good footwork. He just doesn't have the arm and subsequent accuracy on his deep balls to throw open receivers and take the top of the defense. He was worth a second round pick to get this team respectable sooner rather than later, but he's doesn't/didn't have the tools Geno does at the same stage.

[milkman]

Alex Smith was the first overall pick in the draft by the 9ers for one reason.

The Yorks felt that he would be easier to sign than Aaron Rodgers.

[Bowser]

I watched Alex a ton in college.

He's not the prospect Geno is at the same stage. Geno has a better arm, better ball placement on deep throws, better size, better pocket awareness, better timing.

Alex Smith was a legit first rounder with very good accuracy, very smart, exceptionally hard worker, good athleticism and good footwork. He just doesn't have the arm and subsequent accuracy on his deep balls to throw open receivers and take the top of the defense. He was worth a second round pick to get this team respectable sooner rather than later, but he's doesn't/didn't have the tools Geno does at the same stage.I do remember his detractors saying Alex's success had more to do with Urban Meyer than what Alex himself was able to accomplish when he was drafted. Actually, I heard that more in subsequent years rather than right when he was drafted....

Alex Smith was the first overall pick in the draft by the 9ers for one reason.

The Yorks felt that he would be easier to sign than Aaron Rodgers.I remember watching a special on Rodgers and how he didn't hide his disappointment that the Niners passed on him. I respected him for being honest about it. Most guys would have said "I'm just happy to get drafted", but Aaron flat out said he wanted to play for San Fran and was pissed when they passed on him.

And how do you miss on a guy of Rodgers' ability and potential, especially when he's playing college ball literally in your back yard?

[Messier]

I watched Alex a ton in college.

He's not the prospect Geno is at the same stage. Geno has a better arm, better ball placement on deep throws, better size, better pocket awareness, better timing.

Alex Smith was a legit first rounder with very good accuracy, very smart, exceptionally hard worker, good athleticism and good footwork. He just doesn't have the arm and subsequent accuracy on his deep balls to throw open receivers and take the top of the defense. He was worth a second round pick to get this team respectable sooner rather than later, but he's doesn't/didn't have the tools Geno does at the same stage.

Better size? Alex Smith is and was bigger and taller.

[rico]

I did not select Luck. And wouldn't if I had the opportunity to re-pick.

However, I will say that I believe that Luck is extremely over-hyped. I think he has potential to be a great QB, sure.... but I also think there is just as high of a chance for him to not meet these "super-human" and "Peyton Manning-esque" expectations.

Which makes me wonder.... how much does Andrew Luck have to accomplish to not be considered a bust? Well, "bust" may not be the proper term. "Disappointment" is probably a better way to put it. The guy has been given some pretty freaking hefty expectations... how much does he have to accomplish that would prompt Colts fans/general NFL fans to say, "yeah, he panned out the way he was supposed to." Would 1 SB victory do it? Multiple SB's?

I watched a lot of Luck this year, for he was my wife's fantasy QB and she insisted on watching him almost every week if they weren't playing at the same time as the Chiefs and/or the Steelers (her team). With the games I watched him play in this season, the most impressed I ever was by him was his meaningless 1st preseason game. After watching that game, I was convinced that he was the real deal and was a sure thing to live up to the tremendous amount of hype that he has sparked. I should have probably figured that maybe I was getting ahead of myself and he may have appeared a little bit better than he actually was when Chandler Harnisch came in and tore things up in that same game (although presumably against different, less talented defensive players). When I watched him in the regular season, he came off to me as awfully good for a rookie, but still has quite a bit of improvement yet if he has any intentions of living up to what he is hyped of potentially becoming.

[RealSNR]

I did not select Luck. And wouldn't if I had the opportunity to re-pick.

However, I will say that I believe that Luck is extremely over-hyped. I think he has potential to be a great QB, sure.... but I also think there is just as high of a chance for him to not meet these "super-human" and "Peyton Manning-esque" expectations.

Which makes me wonder.... how much does Andrew Luck have to accomplish to not be considered a bust? Well, "bust" may not be the proper term. "Disappointment" is probably a better way to put it. The guy has been given some pretty freaking hefty expectations... how much does he have to accomplish that would prompt Colts fans/general NFL fans to say, "yeah, he panned out the way he was supposed to." Would 1 SB victory do it? Multiple SB's?

I watched a lot of Luck this year, for he was my wife's fantasy QB and she insisted on watching him almost every week if they weren't playing at the same time as the Chiefs and/or the Steelers (her team). With the games I watched him play in this season, the most impressed I ever was by him was his meaningless 1st preseason game. After watching that game, I was convinced that he was the real deal and was a sure thing to live up to the tremendous amount of hype that he has sparked. I should have probably figured that maybe I was getting ahead of myself and he may have appeared a little bit better than he actually was when Chandler Harnisch came in and tore things up in that same game (although presumably against different, less talented defensive players). When I watched him in the regular season, he came off to me as awfully good for a rookie, but still has quite a bit of improvement yet if he has any intentions of living up to what he is hyped of potentially becoming.

Exactly. You want to talk about a cult centered around a single player? Andrew Luck is a fucking sacred cow around these parts. If you say one bad thing about him, people go apeshit.

The guy isn't THAT good. No player is THAT good.

I said when all is said and done that Russell Wilson will have a better NFL career than Andrew Luck. I've never been more sure about anything in my life. And people jumped down my throat for it worse than I've ever jumped down the trolliest troll who ever trolled about Geno Smith.

It's ridiculous.

[KC native]

http://cdn2.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1229/troll_2956879_thumb.jpg

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it's funny when dumbasses think shit like that is serious.

[chiefzilla1501]

Exactly. You want to talk about a cult centered around a single player? Andrew Luck is a ****ing sacred cow around these parts. If you say one bad thing about him, people go apeshit.

The guy isn't THAT good. No player is THAT good.

I said when all is said and done that Russell Wilson will have a better NFL career than Andrew Luck. I've never been more sure about anything in my life. And people jumped down my throat for it worse than I've ever jumped down the trolliest troll who ever trolled about Geno Smith.

It's ridiculous.

This post is a little ridiculous.

That is one hell of a bold leap. Andrew Luck is one hell of a QB and he'll be one hell of a QB the rest of his career. He took a team with absolutely no offensive talent and made it passable. And he did it in a way that usually takes years to develop -- by being a traditional cerebral pocket passer.

Russell Wilson and RGIII played great this year. But let's not be ridiculous. Luck's ceiling is the highest by a mile.

[RealSNR]

This post is a little ridiculous.

That is one hell of a bold leap. Andrew Luck is one hell of a QB and he'll be one hell of a QB the rest of his career. He took a team with absolutely no offensive talent and made it passable. And he did it in a way that usually takes years to develop -- by being a traditional cerebral pocket passer.

Russell Wilson and RGIII played great this year. But let's not be ridiculous. Luck's ceiling is the highest by a mile.
Nobody cares about RGIII.

Russell Wilson is the next big thing. Not Andrew Luck.

[chiefzilla1501]

Nobody cares about RGIII.

Russell Wilson is the next big thing. Not Andrew Luck.

Russell Wilson played great and good chance he continues to play great.

I don't know how anyone can look at Luck's 2012 season and say it was anything short of outstanding for a player with his playing style. Andrew Luck is still on track to be by far the best QB in the class.

[RealSNR]

Russell Wilson played great and good chance he continues to play great.

I don't know how anyone can look at Luck's 2012 season and say it was anything short of outstanding for a player with his playing style. Andrew Luck is still on track to be by far the best QB in the class.

Why? Russell Wilson has nearly everything that Luck has except for size. Stellar collegiate career, leadership out the fucking wazoo (DEFINITELY has the advantage over Luck there), very strong and potent arm (though Luck has a slight advantage there), accurate, heady, better team, possibly more athletic, although it could be considered a draw there.

You say Luck is on track to be BY FAR the best QB in the class. That "by far" part is bullshit. You say that because people told you, when in reality, it's pretty damn close between Wilson and Luck.

And given the teams they play on, I think Wilson will end up having the better NFL career. It's not like it's that strange of a statement when you break it down.

What does Luck have besides a slight edge on arm strength and size that Wilson doesn't have?

Also, you would agree that Wilson has a few advantages over Luck, right?

[B14ckmon]

He's lumping you in with them because you voted that Geno is a better prospect coming out of college than Luck, you ****ing idiot.

Some of the players people are saying Geno is a better prospect than coming out are absolutely hilarious.

I just selected every check box you fucking idiot. This is a dumb fucking poll that no one with a brain will actually put thought into answering.

[RealSNR]

I just selected every check box you fucking idiot. This is a dumb fucking poll that no one with a brain will actually put thought into answering.

We often project our intellectual frustrations onto the things that most illuminate our problems.

I'd say most people put thought into their answers. Let me guess... they're all stupid and you're just a fucking genius.

[B14ckmon]

We often project our intellectual frustrations onto the things that most illuminate our problems.

I'd say most people put thought into their answers. Let me guess... they're all stupid and you're just a ****ing genius.

There are a lot of stupid fucks on this forum, if that's what you are asking me.

I mean, look at anyone who thinks your team might draft Geno. You have to be borderline retarded to think that.

[Bowser]

There are a lot of stupid fucks on this forum, if that's what you are asking me.

I mean, look at anyone who thinks your team might draft Geno. You have to be borderline retarded to think that.

Trollin trollin trollin, keep that troll a-trollin.....


Like I've said, you've really embraced this troll personna. Maybe one of the best since Midnight Vulture, actually.

[B14ckmon]

Trollin trollin trollin, keep that troll a-trollin.....


Like I've said, you've really embraced this troll personna. Maybe one of the best since Midnight Vulture, actually.

Thanks Bruh. Good luck with the OT you draft.

[Bowser]

Thanks Bruh. Good luck with the OT you draft.

Uhh, we're not taking an OT. You guys are.

[Messier]

Uhh, we're not taking an OT. You guys are.

No they're not, but they aren't taking Smith either.

[Bowser]

No they're not, but they aren't taking Smith either.

Sure they are. All they need is a good prospect at left tackle to protect their franchise quarterback Blaine Gabbert.

[RealSNR]

Sure they are. All they need is a good prospect at left tackle to protect their franchise quarterback Blaine Gabbert.
Jags fans who think Eugene Monroe is the be all end all of LTs are morons. The guy is good, but he can absolutely be upgraded. Joeckel is just the kind of franchise LT that the Jags could use. Meanwhile they'll save money by not having to give Monroe a new contract next year.

It would be a very wise and frugal move for the Jags to draft Joeckel, IMO. It's what they should do. Can't build a team in a day.

[Bowser]

Jags fans who think Eugene Monroe is the be all end all of LTs are morons. The guy is good, but he can absolutely be upgraded. Joeckel is just the kind of franchise LT that the Jags could use. Meanwhile they'll save money by not having to give Monroe a new contract next year.

It would be a very wise and frugal move for the Jags to draft Joeckel, IMO. It's what they should do. Can't build a team in a day.

See, SNR gets it.

[milkman]

Why? Russell Wilson has nearly everything that Luck has except for size. Stellar collegiate career, leadership out the ****ing wazoo (DEFINITELY has the advantage over Luck there), very strong and potent arm (though Luck has a slight advantage there), accurate, heady, better team, possibly more athletic, although it could be considered a draw there.

You say Luck is on track to be BY FAR the best QB in the class. That "by far" part is bullshit. You say that because people told you, when in reality, it's pretty damn close between Wilson and Luck.

And given the teams they play on, I think Wilson will end up having the better NFL career. It's not like it's that strange of a statement when you break it down.

What does Luck have besides a slight edge on arm strength and size that Wilson doesn't have?

Also, you would agree that Wilson has a few advantages over Luck, right?

I am in agreement with you.

Although I would not say that the reason that Wilson will have the better career is due to the team he plays on.

He will have the better career because of the way that the people on his team respond to him.

The kid just oozes charisma and leadership.

Andrew Luck, for all his ability really strikes me as a dumbass.

[Bowser]

I am in agreement with you.

Although I would not say that the reason that Wilson will have the better career is due to the team he plays on.

He will have the better career because of the way that the people on his team respond to him.

The kid just oozes charisma and leadership.

Andrew Luck, for all his ability really strikes me as a dumbass.

All of this, but especially the bolded.

The kid has that elusive "it" that every team is looking for. I mean, he's in his third offense in three years, wins a playoff game his rookie year, then goes on the road against a heavily favored team to throw for 300 yards IN THE SECOND HALF and nearly swing the upset.

Give me that kid any time to play on my team. I'll likely be a fan of his through his whole career.

[B14ckmon]

Jags fans who think Eugene Monroe is the be all end all of LTs are morons. The guy is good, but he can absolutely be upgraded. Joeckel is just the kind of franchise LT that the Jags could use. Meanwhile they'll save money by not having to give Monroe a new contract next year.

It would be a very wise and frugal move for the Jags to draft Joeckel, IMO. It's what they should do. Can't build a team in a day.

Monroe was rated at the 9th best LT in the league.

They aren't drafting an LT. It's too close to the draft to waste test trying to make me upset with dumb statements like that.

We have 25 million in cap room right now.

[Bowser]

Monroe was rated at the 9th best LT in the league.

They aren't drafting an LT. It's too close to the draft to waste test trying to make me upset with dumb statements like that.

We have 25 million in cap room right now.

It just makes too much sense for you guy sto not have Joeckel. You can have Monroe on the left and put Joeckel on the right. Keep him there until he's ready to take over on the left side.

WIth a line like that, your franchise QB Blaine Gabbert will improve by leaps and bounds, not to mention just how much better MJD is when he gets back from injury.

[B14ckmon]

It just makes too much sense for you guy sto not have Joeckel. You can have Monroe on the left and put Joeckel on the right. Keep him there until he's ready to take over on the left side.

WIth a line like that, your franchise QB Blaine Gabbert will improve by leaps and bounds, not to mention just how much better MJD is when he gets back from injury.

Stop. You are making me so upset!

[Bowser]

Stop. You are making me so upset!

You're just a retard for not seeing what is plainly evident.

[B14ckmon]

You're just a retard for not seeing what is plainly evident.

Just like how all of those men who visited your mother during the day time were just "friends".

[Bowser]

Just like how all of those men who visited your mother during the day time were just "friends".

Jerking it to the thought of my mom isn't going to stop the Jags from taking Joeckel. Make peace with it, bruhmon.

[B14ckmon]

Jerking it to the thought of my mom isn't going to stop the Jags from taking Joeckel. Make peace with it, bruhmon.

Repeating something won't make it happen little guy.

[Bowser]

Repeating something won't make it happen little guy.

Do you, by chance, understand the definition of irony?

[B14ckmon]

Do you, by chance, understand the definition of irony?

Like rain on a wedding day.

[RealSNR]

Jaguars need to find the next Tony Boselli

[B14ckmon]

Jaguars need to find the next Tony Boselli

Too late.

http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/07/sports/Eugene_Monroe-2.jpg

[Messier]

Like rain on a wedding day.

Or, in your case, meeting the man of your dreams, and then meeting his beautiful wife.

[B14ckmon]

Or, in your case, meeting the man of your dreams, and then meeting his beautiful wife.

HEHEHE!

[Messier]

HEHEHE!

Good one.

[B14ckmon]

Good one.

:)

[RealSNR]

Too late.

http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/07/sports/Eugene_Monroe-2.jpg

Who the fuck is that?

[B14ckmon]

Who the **** is that?

One of the best LT in the NFL.

[RealSNR]

One of the best LT in the NFL.

So 9th best is now "one of the best"?

Uhhh d'okay

[B14ckmon]

So 9th best is now "one of the best"?

Uhhh d'okay

Considering his age? Yes. Especially when you are blocking for Retard McGabbert.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Gabbert will shine for you this year, and for many to come. Franchise!
Posted via Mobile Device

[rico]

I am in agreement with you.

Although I would not say that the reason that Wilson will have the better career is due to the team he plays on.

He will have the better career because of the way that the people on his team respond to him.

The kid just oozes charisma and leadership.

Andrew Luck, for all his ability really strikes me as a dumbass.

Haha.

I've caught a bit of that vibe from him as well.

http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/NFL-Draft-Andrew-Luck.jpg

If that kid doesn't appear at least a bit dumbasstic, I don't know who does.

And it wasn't the pics such as the one posted above that initially gave me that vibe. It was hearing him speak for the first time. My God I didn't expect that John Henry-esque voice (I don't know how else to describe it...that's how my friend puts it and I honestly don't know how he drew that comparison, but it was funny to me nevertheless) to come from THE Andrew Luck that I had been hearing so much about at the time.

[RealSNR]

Haha.

I've caught a bit of that vibe from him as well.

http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/NFL-Draft-Andrew-Luck.jpg

If that kid doesn't appear at least a bit dumbasstic, I don't know who does.

And it wasn't the pics such as the one posted above that initially gave me that vibe. It was hearing him speak for the first time. My God I didn't expect that John Henry-esque voice (I don't know how else to describe it...that's how my friend puts it and I honestly don't know how he drew that comparison, but it was funny to me nevertheless) to come from THE Andrew Luck that I had been hearing so much about at the time.
Dude could be an awesome Lenny in a stage performance of Of Mice And Men

[B14ckmon]

Gabbert will shine for you this year, and for many to come. Franchise!
Posted via Mobile Device

Doubt it. Our GM is a fucking stud.

[rico]

Dude could be an awesome Lenny in a stage performance of Of Mice And Men

ROFL And he'd probably feel honored. What was it that Luck told Pee-holio when he asked him what he likes to do in his spare time? It was the conversation that they had in which Pee-holio afterwards said something along the lines of, "forget having this guy as a QB...this is the type of guy I want marrying my daughter." I could be dead wrong, but I think he said he was a big Robinson Crusoe fan or something.....? And it gave Pee-holio a bonerio.

[Nickel D]

WHATT?!?!

Where does one have to go to select the Ryan Leaf, Art Schlichter, and Todd Marinovich options?

[aturnis]

Dude could be an awesome Lenny in a stage performance of Of Mice And Men

Sounds like Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs.