Singer Lauryn Hill Blames Slavery For Not Paying Her Taxes

[houstonwhodat]

It never ends does it?

http://hiphopwired.com/2013/05/08/lauryn-hill-blames-her-tax-troubles-on-slavery/

“I am a child of former slaves who had a system imposed on them,” the New Jersey native told U.S. Magistrate Madeline Cox Arleo.“I had an economic system imposed on me. Someone did the math, and it came to around $600 million. And I sit here before you trying to figure out how to pay a tax debt?”

[Demonpenz]

she dumb

[Gravedigger]

They exist on both sides; people that want to blame the other side for their troubles. I was a little shocked back when I was younger when I found out how big of a whitey hater she was, but obviously she hasn't changed.

[In58men]

JFC.


Kill her

[boogblaster]

well .....

[Demonpenz]

when keeping it real goes wrong.

[Thig Lyfe]

YESSSSS ANOTHER CP RACE THREAD

CAN'T WAIT

[KcMizzou]

when keeping it real goes wrong.LMAO

Exactly.

[Bump]

She was never rich enough for tax evasion. Kinda arrogant of her to think that she was.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Where does the 600 million come from? Is that what she owes or is that a reparations credit?
Posted via Mobile Device

[houstonwhodat]

She was never rich enough for tax evasion. Kinda arrogant of her to think that she was.


She got more money than me.

"Hill made a last-minute $900,000 payment to IRS one day ahead of Monday's (May 6) court date, but her failure to cover interest and penalties resulted in a three-month prison sentence."

[ThatRaceCardGuy]

In her defense. ...she is bat shit crazy lol

[ThatRaceCardGuy]

She comes from an upper middle class home too..it's always those types who end up beimg radicals in life.

[Simply Red]

say what you want about that side of her - but her voice on the mic via the R&B avenue - she's breathtaking.

[Simply Red]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rNajx1cD5T4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ThatRaceCardGuy]

say what you want about that side of her - but her voice on the mic via the R&B avenue - she's breathtaking.

True.

[listopencil]

say what you want about that side of her - but her voice on the mic via the R&B avenue - she's breathtaking.

Yup. Has some nice rap too.

[KcMizzou]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/T6QKqFPRZSA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[KcMizzou]

Still a stupid thing to say.

[Demonpenz]

Her and Kanye....writing checks their talent can't cash.

[Simply Red]

when the first Fugees came out - that was a very nice sound - and Wyclef Jean is no slouch either. They had a sound entirely of their own. Trouble is they couldn't hold it together as a group.


The album brings back some excellent memories.

[Simply Red]

Still a stupid thing to say.

well yeah. no question there.

[TLO]

AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!

[GoChargers]

Talented artist, but damn, she's fucked up. Didn't she basically turn into a hermit after her first album?

[Sorter]

I bought Lauryn Hill's tape so her kids could starve

[Setsuna]

LMAO ROFL LMAO

This is why stereotypes will never die. Ridiculous.

[CHENZ A!]

say what you want about that side of her - but her voice on the mic via the R&B avenue - she's breathtaking.

when the first Fugees came out - that was a very nice sound - and Wyclef Jean is no slouch either. They had a sound entirely of their own. Trouble is they couldn't hold it together as a group.


The album brings back some excellent memories.

couldn't agree more, SR.

[CHENZ A!]

so even after all my logic and my theory, I add a "mothafucka" so the ignorant *people hear me.

[Stewie]

Miseducated.

[blaise]

She should use it for other things.
"I'm a child of former slaves who had a system imposed on them. I had a speed limit imposed on me. Someone did the math and it came out that I was going 70 in a 55. And I sit before you trying to figure out how to pay a speeding ticket?"

[Radar Chief]

They exist on both sides; people that want to blame the other side for their troubles. I was a little shocked back when I was younger when I found out how big of a whitey hater she was, but obviously she hasn't changed.

Being a victim is a much easier way to live. Then one has no responsibilities, bares no accountability as everything is the fault of nefarious forces gathered against them.

[BlackHelicopters]

Being a victim is a much easier way to live. Then one has no responsibilities, bares no accountability as everything is the fault of nefarious forces gathered against them.

Great way to go through life.

[Chief Roundup]

She sucks so I am not surprised after watch those couple of songs that got posted that her music sucks as well.

[MotherfuckerJones]

C*nt

[BigBeauford]

How she feed her family while paying taxes?

http://cdnl.complex.com/mp/620/400/80/0/bb/1/ffffff/67789000d10e09290ee866b1f7748d28/images_/assets/CHANNEL_IMAGES/SPORTS/2012/04/money-to-blow-history-of-nba-players-broke/sprewell_226961.jpg

[Bump]

I love how everybody is acting like she's a hardened criminal.

But the really wealthy have evaded taxes for a long time. The wealthy don't pay taxes, period. But since foxnews tells you that it is good for 'Murica for the rich to not pay taxes, you believe it and shrug it off.

[BigBeauford]

I don't think it's the assumption that she's a hardened criminal. But if you are going to sit here and enjoy the fruits the of American dream by making millions, pay your taxes.

[blaise]

I love how everybody is acting like she's a hardened criminal.

But the really wealthy have evaded taxes for a long time. The wealthy don't pay taxes, period. But since foxnews tells you that it is good for 'Murica for the rich to not pay taxes, you believe it and shrug it off.

I think they're mostly just acting like she should pay her bill.

[Chief_For_Life58]

ninjas gonna ninja

[Chief_For_Life58]

I love how everybody is acting like she's a hardened criminal.

But the really wealthy have evaded taxes for a long time. The wealthy don't pay taxes, period. But since foxnews tells you that it is good for 'Murica for the rich to not pay taxes, you believe it and shrug it off.

lolz wut?

[Cmd'r&Chief]

what a load of shit, that she would play the Race Card to get out of paying taxes...just because the bitch is broke, and she hasn't had a hit since 2001...get over yourself bitch

[Bump]

lolz wut?

The rich don't pay taxes in this country and everybody thinks thats ok.

A person like Lauren Hill doesn't pay her taxes, stupid as it may be, everybody acts like shes a criminal.

makes sense.

I'm not defending her. But the irony is funny.

[loochy]

In her defense. ...she is bat shit crazy lol

She comes from an upper middle class home too..it's always those types who end up beimg radicals in life.

Ha ha you know you are in the wrong on a race issue when even THATGUY thinks you are crazy.

[loochy]

The rich don't pay taxes in this country

wtf?

they pay, even though some have either figured out how to get around the system or pay people to look the other way

in much the same way, some poor have figured out how to get around the system and not pay taxes

[Bump]

wtf?

they pay, even though some have either figured out how to get around the system or pay people to look the other way

in much the same way, some poor have figured out how to get around the system and not pay taxes

ya the poor here do have it better than the poor in other countries. That's for sure. But people in the middle.............................................................................................. ...................................................fucked.

[Micjones]

I love how everybody is acting like she's a hardened criminal.

But the really wealthy have evaded taxes for a long time. The wealthy don't pay taxes, period. But since foxnews tells you that it is good for 'Murica for the rich to not pay taxes, you believe it and shrug it off.

/thread

[loochy]

A person like Lauren Hill doesn't pay her taxes, stupid as it may be, everybody acts like shes a criminal.

makes sense.

I'm not defending her. But the irony is funny.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that nobody on here supports anyone skipping out on their taxes. How is it ironic? Everyone that skips out on their taxes is a criminal, just some have learned how to take advantage of a porous and corrupt system.

[Chief_For_Life58]

am I missing something here how do rich people not pay taxes

[blaise]

ya the poor here do have it better than the poor in other countries. That's for sure. But people in the middle.............................................................................................. ...................................................****ed.

So, this has to do with Lauryn Hill somehow.

[blaise]

am I missing something here how do rich people not pay taxes

You know, FOX news or something. Big corporations etc. And therefore: Lauryn Hill.

[seaofred]

Actually, the rich pay a higher percentage of the taxes every year. While the poor, typically get more back then they pay in. Which is absolutely crazy to me.

[Mav]

I bought Lauryn Hill's tape so her kids could starve

very nice eminem reference. well played.

[exterminator]

Her and Kanye....writing checks their talent can't cash.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

[tredadda]

The rich don't pay taxes in this country and everybody thinks thats ok.

A person like Lauren Hill doesn't pay her taxes, stupid as it may be, everybody acts like shes a criminal.

makes sense.

I'm not defending her. But the irony is funny.

Most would not have known or cared about her not paying taxes had it not been for her publicly making numerous statements as to why she shouldn't have to each time her excuses become more and more ridiculous. The fact she has resorted to using the slavery card is pathetic. Everyone should have to pay their fair share of taxes and the fact that many rich have found a way around it is true, but they are private about it, even when caught. They don't make it public like she is.

[exterminator]

The rich don't pay taxes in this country and everybody thinks thats ok.

A person like Lauren Hill doesn't pay her taxes, stupid as it may be, everybody acts like shes a criminal.

makes sense.

I'm not defending her. But the irony is funny.

I don't think that's it at all.

The reason the rich get richer is because they use tax loop holes and strategy to avoid paying taxes. They hire tax attorneys to investigate this shit. It's all legal.

Lauryn Hill just said fuck it I ain't paying. Or she didn't an accountant that was smart enough to figure this shit out.

Same thing happened to Willie Nelson and Mike Tyson.

The problem I have with her statement is that she's playing the race card whenever convenient.

There are two types of people.

Those who plan and those who fail to plan.

She's reactive not proactive.

[SPATCH]

PREFACE: I do not agree with Lauryn Hill's reparations excuse for not paying taxes, HOWEVER...

I think the average (white) citizens of our society sometimes lack perspective when it comes to the history of African Americans in our country.

1787: the Constitution of the United States is drafted. The 3/5 Compromise declares that black slaves are considered 3/5 of a person to help bolster voting bloc in southern US.

1870: 15th amendment passes giving blacks citizenship/right to vote.

*This means that less than 150 (only 5 generations ago) years ago blacks WERE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED PEOPLE BY OUR CONSTITUTION (they were 3/5 of a person - which is insanely dehumanizing, dudes).

1880s - 1960s: Much of the United States is hell-bent on keeping blacks out of mainstream society. Jim Crow laws are adopted, Plessy v Ferguson (separate but equal) rules, Ku Klux Klan forms up, etc.

WE ARE ONLY TWO GENERATIONS REMOVED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT (many of us were raised by parents who were raised in a systematically [and socially accepted] racist world).

If you don't believe that blacks have been systematically disadvantaged throughout the VAST majority of our nation's history then you do not know your history.

It takes time to overcome all of those things. Racism is still alive and well in our country (as has been repeatedly proven on this board). We have come a long way as a society, but there are still a lot of demons from our nation's past that need to be exorcised.

[loochy]

blah blah blah preachy crap

Yeah, there were slaves. Yeah, that sucked. Yeah, there are racists. Yeah, that sucks.

What does this have to do with Lauren Hill not paying taxes?

[buddha]

Seize her house and ship her back to her homeland. Seems like the only fair thing to do.

[SPATCH]

Yeah, there were slaves. Yeah, that sucked. Yeah, there are racists. Yeah, that sucks.

What does this have to do with Lauren Hill not paying taxes?

It doesn't have that much to do with it, I guess...

I just wanted to halt the ChiefsPlanetBigotTrain before it really started to pick up steam again..

[DJ's left nut]

The rich don't pay taxes in this country and everybody thinks thats ok.

A person like Lauren Hill doesn't pay her taxes, stupid as it may be, everybody acts like shes a criminal.

makes sense.

I'm not defending her. But the irony is funny.

The tax burden in this country is overwhelmingly supported by the richest 10%. It's not even a close question as that 10% provides about 70% of our tax income. Hell, the top 1% alone covers a little over 1/3 of America's revenue stream. And that's actually a greater percentage than they paid 20 years ago.

Meanwhile, approximately 47% of America's lowest income earners don't pay taxes at all.

You may think that the rich should have to pay a greater share of their income - fine, whatever. But the bottom line is that the rich essentially subsidize 2/3 of this government. The middle class handles about 30% of it and 1/2 the country doesn't do jack shit to carry their burden.

Ignorance like yours is why we can't have a serious discussion about anything in this country.

[BlackHelicopters]

Never heard of her.

[frankotank]

She should use it for other things.
"I'm a child of former slaves who had a system imposed on them. I had a speed limit imposed on me. Someone did the math and it came out that I was going 70 in a 55. And I sit before you trying to figure out how to pay a speeding ticket?"

by her logic....this is PERFECTLY logical.
sad.

[seaofred]

“I am a child of former slaves”

How old is she or how old are her parents? I think she isn't being honest.

[frankotank]

PREFACE: I do not agree with Lauryn Hill's reparations excuse for not paying taxes, HOWEVER...

I think the average (white) citizens of our society sometimes lack perspective when it comes to the history of African Americans in our country.

1787: the Constitution of the United States is drafted. The 3/5 Compromise declares that black slaves are considered 3/5 of a person to help bolster voting bloc in southern US.

1870: 15th amendment passes giving blacks citizenship/right to vote.

*This means that less than 150 (only 5 generations ago) years ago blacks WERE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED PEOPLE BY OUR CONSTITUTION (they were 3/5 of a person - which is insanely dehumanizing, dudes).

1880s - 1960s: Much of the United States is hell-bent on keeping blacks out of mainstream society. Jim Crow laws are adopted, Plessy v Ferguson (separate but equal) rules, Ku Klux Klan forms up, etc.

WE ARE ONLY TWO GENERATIONS REMOVED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT (many of us were raised by parents who were raised in a systematically [and socially accepted] racist world).

If you don't believe that blacks have been systematically disadvantaged throughout the VAST majority of our nation's history then you do not know your history.

It takes time to overcome all of those things. Racism is still alive and well in our country (as has been repeatedly proven on this board). We have come a long way as a society, but there are still a lot of demons from our nation's past that need to be exorcised.

hey man....

nsfw curse words pic
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLkHzeA8rquE1JeJC5GickwteXa8sTlOQVKpGCFFpqu63C0SNF8Q

this has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
I doubt very much you've said anything here that we don't all know. white people know about slavery too. your post just doesn't have anything to do with Lauren Hill being a total fucking RETARD trying to use slavery as a reason. what a stupid stupid stupid bitch.

[Mr. Laz]

i don't think she should be going to jail for 3 months for interest


That said ... she's an annoying bitch who probably told everyone involved to fuck off until the last minute. Enjoy prison.

[morphius]

The tax burden in this country is overwhelmingly supported by the richest 10%. It's not even a close question as that 10% provides about 70% of our tax income. Hell, the top 1% alone covers a little over 1/3 of America's revenue stream. And that's actually a greater percentage than they paid 20 years ago.

Meanwhile, approximately 47% of America's lowest income earners don't pay taxes at all.

You may think that the rich should have to pay a greater share of their income - fine, whatever. But the bottom line is that the rich essentially subsidize 2/3 of this government. The middle class handles about 30% of it and 1/2 the country doesn't do jack shit to carry their burden.

Ignorance like yours is why we can't have a serious discussion about anything in this country.
The top 5% controls nearly 72% of the money, so 2/3 of the taxes seems like a pretty decent deal.

I'm not sure what the point is with this argument.

[Bump]

The tax burden in this country is overwhelmingly supported by the richest 10%. It's not even a close question as that 10% provides about 70% of our tax income. Hell, the top 1% alone covers a little over 1/3 of America's revenue stream. And that's actually a greater percentage than they paid 20 years ago.

Meanwhile, approximately 47% of America's lowest income earners don't pay taxes at all.

You may think that the rich should have to pay a greater share of their income - fine, whatever. But the bottom line is that the rich essentially subsidize 2/3 of this government. The middle class handles about 30% of it and 1/2 the country doesn't do jack shit to carry their burden.

Ignorance like yours is why we can't have a serious discussion about anything in this country.

ROFL

[Donger]

The top 5% controls nearly 72% of the money, so 2/3 of the taxes seems like a pretty decent deal.

Well, yeah. That's because they are rich.

[DJ's left nut]

The top 5% controls nearly 72% of the money, so 2/3 of the taxes seems like a pretty decent deal.

I'm not sure what the point is with this argument.

Eh, it's not even an argument really.

Like I said, there are arguments to be made that the rich should pay more. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they certainly exist.

But the idea that they simply don't pay is asinine. On a volume basis, it's the wealthiest earners in this country that fund the government.

[Bump]

Eh, it's not even an argument really.

Like I said, there are arguments to be made that the rich should pay more. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they certainly exist.

But the idea that they simply don't pay is asinine. On a volume basis, it's the wealthiest earners in this country that fund the government.

ROFL

[InChiefsHeaven]

Somebody needs to tell her that even Obama pays his taxes...

[Donger]

Eh, it's not even an argument really.

Like I said, there are arguments to be made that the rich should pay more. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they certainly exist.

But the idea that they simply don't pay is asinine. On a volume basis, it's the wealthiest earners in this country that fund the government.

Bump has some rather interesting ideas about the way our country works.

[Radar Chief]

Bump has some rather interesting ideas about the way our country works.

If "interesting" = "crazy", then agreed.

[DJ's left nut]

Bump has some rather interesting ideas about the way our country works.

If there was any way I could control where my tax dollars went, I'd allocate them all towards keeping weed illegal just to piss him off.

[Donger]

If there was any way I could control where my tax dollars went, I'd allocate them all towards keeping weed illegal just to piss him off.

LMAO

[listopencil]

The reason the rich get richer is because they use tax loop holes and strategy to avoid paying taxes.

Bullshit.

The problem I have with her statement is that she's playing the race card whenever convenient.


I agree.

[DTHOF]

In her defense. ...she is bat shit crazy lol

She should've pleaded insanity the defense would have been more credible.

[SPATCH]

hey man....

nsfw curse words pic
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLkHzeA8rquE1JeJC5GickwteXa8sTlOQVKpGCFFpqu63C0SNF8Q

this has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
I doubt very much you've said anything here that we don't all know. white people know about slavery too. your post just doesn't have anything to do with Lauren Hill being a total ****ing RETARD trying to use slavery as a reason. what a stupid stupid stupid bitch.

cool .jpeg, bro.

[loochy]

The reason the rich get richer is because they use tax loop holes and strategy to avoid paying taxes.

No, it's because earning money generally takes resources and investment and a bit of risk. Rich people can afford to take the kinds of risks that normal and poor folk can not. Once a successful venture occurs, even more money is generated to invest in more money making ventures. It feeds itself. The rich get richer because of resources and good decisions (or luck). They can avoid some tax burden through loopholes or immoral behavior, but that isn't the prime generator of money.

[Bump]

If there was any way I could control where my tax dollars went, I'd allocate them all towards keeping weed illegal just to piss him off.

ya and screw over the millions of people who it could help and keeping the innocent behind bars so that a few can profit.


Sheeple

[alnorth]

PREFACE: I do not agree with Lauryn Hill's reparations excuse for not paying taxes, HOWEVER...

I think the average (white) citizens of our society sometimes lack perspective when it comes to the history of African Americans in our country.

1787: the Constitution of the United States is drafted. The 3/5 Compromise declares that black slaves are considered 3/5 of a person to help bolster voting bloc in southern US.

1870: 15th amendment passes giving blacks citizenship/right to vote.

*This means that less than 150 (only 5 generations ago) years ago blacks WERE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED PEOPLE BY OUR CONSTITUTION (they were 3/5 of a person - which is insanely dehumanizing, dudes).

1880s - 1960s: Much of the United States is hell-bent on keeping blacks out of mainstream society. Jim Crow laws are adopted, Plessy v Ferguson (separate but equal) rules, Ku Klux Klan forms up, etc.

WE ARE ONLY TWO GENERATIONS REMOVED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT (many of us were raised by parents who were raised in a systematically [and socially accepted] racist world).

If you don't believe that blacks have been systematically disadvantaged throughout the VAST majority of our nation's history then you do not know your history.

It takes time to overcome all of those things. Racism is still alive and well in our country (as has been repeatedly proven on this board). We have come a long way as a society, but there are still a lot of demons from our nation's past that need to be exorcised.

We're not talking about the daughter of sharecroppers in rural Alabama who grew up during the 50's.

She was born in 1975, in New Jersey, to a couple parents who were both working professionals who could afford a decent middle class lifestyle. She had advantages that many others, white or black, did not have, and she made millions.

She doesn't get to cloak herself with a shield of black sympathy after going all Wesley Snipes on us. She needs to go to prison, and NONE of this stuff you cited is relevant in this case.

[tooge]

aren't there enough problems in our country vs. other countries hating us, that we can't just all be Americans and stand as one. Racism=a waste of time

[Amnorix]

Meanwhile, approximately 47% of America's lowest income earners don't pay taxes at all.

Not true. They pay payroll taxes.

[loochy]

ya and screw over the millions of people who it could help and keeping the innocent behind bars so that a few can profit.


Sheeple


well they aren't innocent

they broke the law

[alnorth]

Not true. They pay payroll taxes.

yep. The rich, ie the "top 5%, top 1%", etc still pay most of the taxes, but payroll taxes can't be thrown out. They still count as a tax on income.

[Bump]

well they aren't innocent

they broke the law

they broke an unjust law.

It's illegal because it can help people and it's profitable to arrest people for it. That is our tyrannical government at work.

[Rain Man]

I once fought a parking ticket with the argument that my ancestors moved with the railroad and thus had little opportunity to purchase parking spots. It didn't work.

[Donger]

The "wonder plant" which isn't a drug and cures cancer.

Fascist, totalitarian state just wants to keep it down.

Yep.

Always nice to see one of the side effects of the non-drug on display, however.

[exterminator]

No, it's because earning money generally takes resources and investment and a bit of risk. Rich people can afford to take the kinds of risks that normal and poor folk can not. Once a successful venture occurs, even more money is generated to invest in more money making ventures. It feeds itself. The rich get richer because of resources and good decisions (or luck). They can avoid some tax burden through loopholes or immoral behavior, but that isn't the prime generator of money.

Never said it was.

But it's one of the reasons.

They use their money wisely and take deductions to reduce their tax burden.

I do the same thing.

[exterminator]

And I watched Django Unchained last night for the first time.

How appropriate eh???

[loochy]

Never said it was.

But it's one of the reasons.

They use their money wisely and take deductions to reduce their tax burden.

I do the same thing.

i know.

i just wanted to clarify because some of the jealous people will try to tear you down

[-King-]

If there was any way I could control where my tax dollars went, I'd allocate them all towards keeping weed illegal just to piss him off.

LMAO now that's funny!
Posted via Mobile Device

[SPATCH]

We're not talking about the daughter of sharecroppers in rural Alabama who grew up during the 50's.

She was born in 1975, in New Jersey, to a couple parents who were both working professionals who could afford a decent middle class lifestyle. She had advantages that many others, white or black, did not have, and she made millions.

She doesn't get to cloak herself with a shield of black sympathy after going all Wesley Snipes on us. She needs to go to prison, and NONE of this stuff you cited is relevant in this case.

Guess what? I wasn't talking about an individual person. I was speaking in broad terms.

I understand this thread is about Lauryn Hill but we've got people in here talking about "ninjas gonna ninja" and "this is why stereotypes exist". Those are broad comments.

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

[seaofred]

Guess what? I wasn't talking about an individual person. I was speaking in broad terms.

I understand this thread is about Lauryn Hill but we've got people in here talking about "ninjas gonna ninja" and "this is why stereotypes exist". Those are broad comments.

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

So do you believe that, if your grandfather was a murderer, we should punished or treat you like a murderer?

[blaise]

Guess what? I wasn't talking about an individual person. I was speaking in broad terms.

I understand this thread is about Lauryn Hill but we've got people in here talking about "ninjas gonna ninja" and "this is why stereotypes exist". Those are broad comments.

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

Yes thanks for the history lessons, professor.

[Donger]

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

Basis or justification for?

[ChiefaRoo]

Going to Jail. Say hello to Wesley Snipes.

[saphojunkie]

Real easy for us white guys to say "get over it!" I mean, she was born ELEVEN YEARS after the Civil Rights Act. There's no way there was any residual racial bias or struggle! I mean, no one alive in 1975 was racist, right? Certainly no one who worked in government or for schools or in positions of authority or people with hiring power at businesses or judges or cops. The second they ratified the amendment, everyone collectively stopped believing in segregation.

Oh, and New Jersey integrated in the forties. Which means her parents likely attended "colored only" schools for at least a few years. Her grandparents certainly did. So don't say "derp she's middle class from New Jersey, she doesn't have struggles!" Because you just sound ignorant.

think about this: Every single one of our fathers could remember a time when blacks weren't allowed to use the same bathroom. Some of the posters here can. That shit isn't "past us." If you think it is, then you're living in a little white fantasy world.

That said, I think she's a complete c*nt. But being a c*nt doesn't make your points completely invalid.

Purely coincidentally, I went to bed last night thinking about how the Constitution was ratified by a group of people that in no way represented a majority. Blacks, Indians, women, and non-land-owning white men were all subjected to laws they had absolutely no voice in creating or approving. In fact, only six percent of the American population was allowed to vote when the Constitution was ratified and had to silently obey laws thrust upon them with say. That sounds like the very definition of tyranny.

She has a point. It's not a point you like, but it's a real point.

[blaise]

Real easy for us white guys to say "get over it!" I mean, she was born ELEVEN YEARS after the Civil Rights Act. There's no way there was any residual racial bias or struggle! I mean, no one alive in 1975 was racist, right? Certainly no one who worked in government or for schools or in positions of authority or people with hiring power at businesses or judges or cops. The second they ratified the amendment, everyone collectively stopped believing in segregation.

Oh, and New Jersey integrated in the forties. Which means her parents likely attended "colored only" schools for at least a few years. Her grandparents certainly did. So don't say "derp she's middle class from New Jersey, she doesn't have struggles!" Because you just sound ignorant.

think about this: Every single one of our fathers could remember a time when blacks weren't allowed to use the same bathroom. Some of the posters here can. That shit isn't "past us." If you think it is, then you're living in a little white fantasy world.

That said, I think she's a complete c*nt. But being a c*nt doesn't make your points completely invalid.

Purely coincidentally, I went to bed last night thinking about how the Constitution was ratified by a group of people that in no way represented a majority. Blacks, Indians, women, and non-land-owning white men were all subjected to laws they had absolutely no voice in creating or approving. In fact, only six percent of the American population was allowed to vote when the Constitution was ratified and had to silently obey laws thrust upon them with say. That sounds like the very definition of tyranny.

She has a point. It's not a point you like, but it's a real point.


She has a point? That she shouldn't pay taxes on the millions she earned because slavery existed? That's a 'point'? I guess. Somehow, in a totally irrelevant way.

[Just Passin' By]

Guess what? I wasn't talking about an individual person. I was speaking in broad terms.

I understand this thread is about Lauryn Hill but we've got people in here talking about "ninjas gonna ninja" and "this is why stereotypes exist". Those are broad comments.

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

If you know your history, you know that the 3/5ths was strictly about voting apportionment and not an actual comment on blacks being 3/5 human. Free states wanted slaves to go uncounted while slave states wanted them counted as a full person for electoral college and House of Representative purposes. Furthermore, free blacks, obviously most of whom would be in free states (on a percentage basis, at least) got a 1:1 representation. If we were to try breaking it down using your logic, we'd come to the bizarre claim that the north/free states thought blacks weren't people while the south/slave states thought there were on equal footing with whites.

So either you're an idiot, or you've got an agenda that you consider more important than the truth. Either way, you're in no position to lecture others about knowing their history, so take your shit to DC where it belongs.

[saphojunkie]

She has a point? That she shouldn't pay taxes on the millions she earned because slavery existed? That's a 'point'? I guess. Somehow, in a totally irrelevant way.

Having a point doesn't mean you win the argument. I'm just saying she's not completely insane for claiming that there is still a severe racial gap in this country. That doesn't mean she doesn't have to follow the same rules.

I'm not talking about her tax evasion as much as I am the question of reparations in general.

[Cannibal]

Pay your taxes, and STFU, bitch!

[Just Passin' By]

...She has a point...

No, she doesn't.

[Donger]

Having a point doesn't mean you win the argument. I'm just saying she's not completely insane for claiming that there is still a severe racial gap in this country. That doesn't mean she doesn't have to follow the same rules.

I'm not talking about her tax evasion as much as I am the question of reparations in general.

Severe racial gap?

Maybe one day we'll bridge that gap by having affirmative action, making it illegal to discriminate based on race, have a Black POTUS...

Oh, wait.

[Donger]

Pay your taxes, and STFU, bitch!

LMAO

[saphojunkie]

Severe racial gap?

Maybe one day we'll bridge that gap by having affirmative action, making it illegal to discriminate based on race, have a Black POTUS...

Oh, wait.

Don't be fucking naive.

[blaise]

Having a point doesn't mean you win the argument. I'm just saying she's not completely insane for claiming that there is still a severe racial gap in this country. That doesn't mean she doesn't have to follow the same rules.

I'm not talking about her tax evasion as much as I am the question of reparations in general.

Yeah, keep waiting for reparations.

[DJ's left nut]

Having a point doesn't mean you win the argument. I'm just saying she's not completely insane for claiming that there is still a severe racial gap in this country. That doesn't mean she doesn't have to follow the same rules.

I'm not talking about her tax evasion as much as I am the question of reparations in general.

Having a mouth doesn't mean you have a point.

She formed cogent sentences in establishing a complete non-sequitur. That doesn't mean she has a point.

[frankotank]

cool .jpeg, bro.

yeah...it cracked me up!

[Donger]

Don't be ****ing naive.

Well, perhaps you'd be willing to actually define what you see as the "severe racial gap" you just professed?

[morphius]

It might be easier to buy into her position if she would have taken her money and moved back to Africa, but for some reason she had a way out of the oppression and stayed here.

[listopencil]

Real easy for us white guys to say "get over it!" I mean, she was born ELEVEN YEARS after the Civil Rights Act. There's no way there was any residual racial bias or struggle! I mean, no one alive in 1975 was racist, right? Certainly no one who worked in government or for schools or in positions of authority or people with hiring power at businesses or judges or cops. The second they ratified the amendment, everyone collectively stopped believing in segregation.

Oh, and New Jersey integrated in the forties. Which means her parents likely attended "colored only" schools for at least a few years. Her grandparents certainly did. So don't say "derp she's middle class from New Jersey, she doesn't have struggles!" Because you just sound ignorant.

think about this: Every single one of our fathers could remember a time when blacks weren't allowed to use the same bathroom. Some of the posters here can. That shit isn't "past us." If you think it is, then you're living in a little white fantasy world.

That said, I think she's a complete c*nt. But being a c*nt doesn't make your points completely invalid.

Purely coincidentally, I went to bed last night thinking about how the Constitution was ratified by a group of people that in no way represented a majority. Blacks, Indians, women, and non-land-owning white men were all subjected to laws they had absolutely no voice in creating or approving. In fact, only six percent of the American population was allowed to vote when the Constitution was ratified and had to silently obey laws thrust upon them with say. That sounds like the very definition of tyranny.

She has a point. It's not a point you like, but it's a real point.

What she is doing is the very epitome of "playing the race card." The fact is that she is required by law to subsidize the government based, in part, on how much income she receives. There is nothing in the history of this country or her personal experiences that alter that legal requirement.

[saphojunkie]

Well, perhaps you'd be willing to actually define what you see as the "severe racial gap" you just professed?

Blacks make up 12% of the US population and 38% of the federal prison population, while whites make up 72.4% of the population and only 34% of the federal prison population. This is after a severe drop over the last decade for incarcerated blacks.

You can read about the advancement here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/us/incarceration-rates-for-blacks-dropped-report-shows.html?_r=0

Interestingly enough, another article came out on 2.27.13.

This one says that the wealth gap between blacks and whites has nearly tripled in the last 25 years.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/02/27/racial-wealth-gap-growing/1948899/

Blacks also have more than twice the high school drop out rate than whites.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_113.asp

so, you either think these facts are due to blacks being categorically inferior to whites or it is due to a system that is stacked against them.

EDIT: These were the first three things off the top of my head. I'm sure...
voting rates.
Percentage in elected office.
Likelihood of being a victim of violent crime.
Poverty rate.
life span
college degrees
higher degrees

and incalculable other conditions vastly favor whites.

[ChiefaRoo]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vkkVOMTe8xQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[lawrenceRaider]

If "interesting" = "crazy", then agreed.

Bumps the same guy who thought Android and Microsoft were the same thing.

[frankotank]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vkkVOMTe8xQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ROFL @ :17

“lern hadn’t paid texas”

you gotta pay your texas.

[SPATCH]

If you know your history, you know that the 3/5ths was strictly about voting apportionment and not an actual comment on blacks being 3/5 human. Free states wanted slaves to go uncounted while slave states wanted them counted as a full person for electoral college and House of Representative purposes. Furthermore, free blacks, obviously most of whom would be in free states (on a percentage basis, at least) got a 1:1 representation. If we were to try breaking it down using your logic, we'd come to the bizarre claim that the north/free states thought blacks weren't people while the south/slave states thought there were on equal footing with whites.

So either you're an idiot, or you've got an agenda that you consider more important than the truth. Either way, you're in no position to lecture others about knowing their history, so take your shit to DC where it belongs.

I know exactly why the 3/5 compromise came to be. The point remains the same.

Our constitution did not recognize blacks as citizens until the 15th ammendment. Even free blacks in northern states were denied citizenship/right to vote.

The point was that our own constitution was systematically racist up until the 1880s and into the 20th century.

Do not confuse the point.

Basis or justification for?

Both.

I see no problem with proactively improving the prospects of African Americans with things like Affirmative Action. A large portion of the black population has had to deal with lack of resources/life chances afforded to them due to lasting affects from our country's racist past.

[Donger]

Blacks make up 12% of the US population and 38% of the federal prison population.

Whites make up 72.4% of the population and only 34% of the federal prison population. This is after a severe drop over the last decade for incarcerated blacks.

You can read about the advancement here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/us/incarceration-rates-for-blacks-dropped-report-shows.html?_r=0

Interestingly enough, another article came out on 2.27.13.

It says that the wealth gap between blacks and whites has tripled in the last 25 years.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/02/27/racial-wealth-gap-growing/1948899/

Blacks also have more than twice the high school drop out rate than whites.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_113.asp

so, you either think these facts are due to blacks being categorically inferior to whites or it is due to a system that is stacked against them.

EDIT: These were the first three things off the top of my head. I'm sure...
voting rates.
Percentage in elected office.
Likelihood of being a victim of violent crime.
Poverty rate.
life span
college degrees
higher degrees

and incalculable other conditions vastly favor whites.

I'm aware of all of these. Now, please explain how "the system is stacked against them" and why.

[Donger]

Both.

I see no problem with proactively improving the prospects of African Americans with things like Affirmative Action. A large portion of the black population has had to deal with lack of resources/life chances afforded to them due to lasting affects from our country's racist past.

I can understand AA to a certain degree, but not reparations.

[Oxford]

say what you want about that side of her - but her voice on the mic via the R&B avenue - she's breathtaking.

Then all the proceeds from however many albums it takes to pay it off can go to the IRS. Equal representation under the law, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and stupidity is no defense.

Maybe she can get a loan and pay it back right now..... oh wait that would be slavery to a bank.

[exterminator]

Then all the proceeds from however many albums it takes to pay it off can go to the IRS. Equal representation under the law, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and stupidity is no defense.

Maybe she can get a loan and pay it back right now..... oh wait that would be slavery to a bank.



Her problem is the same as Vince Young, Mike Tyson and everyone else who when they finally made money did zero planning to protect it and make it grow.

It was all bling bling bling look at me I'm a pop star.

Fuck that.

[SPATCH]

I'm aware of all of these. Now, please explain how "the system is stacked against them" and why.

This is a complex issue. There is no simple answer.

You can see that there is an issue (as evidenced by sapho's statistics). A historical perspective has been offered as to why these issues exist.

Not sure what else you want....

[Donger]

This is a complex issue. There is no simple answer.

You can see that there is an issue (as evidenced by sapho's statistics). A historical perspective has been offered as to why these issues exist.

Not sure what else you want....

I'm aware of the issues and the statistics. I'm just not aware of how or what "the system being stacked against them" means. Based on the illegality of racial discrimination, it would seem that our historical racial slavery should become less and less of an excuse as time goes on, no?

[loochy]

Blacks make up 12% of the US population and 38% of the federal prison population, while whites make up 72.4% of the population and only 34% of the federal prison population. This is after a severe drop over the last decade for incarcerated blacks.

You can read about the advancement here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/us/incarceration-rates-for-blacks-dropped-report-shows.html?_r=0

Interestingly enough, another article came out on 2.27.13.

This one says that the wealth gap between blacks and whites has nearly tripled in the last 25 years.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/02/27/racial-wealth-gap-growing/1948899/

Blacks also have more than twice the high school drop out rate than whites.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_113.asp

so, you either think these facts are due to blacks being categorically inferior to whites or it is due to a system that is stacked against them.

EDIT: These were the first three things off the top of my head. I'm sure...
voting rates.
Percentage in elected office.
Likelihood of being a victim of violent crime.
Poverty rate.
life span
college degrees
higher degrees

and incalculable other conditions vastly favor whites.

Why must the ratio of "percentage of population" to "bad things" be the same for every demographic subgroup?

[SPATCH]

I'm aware of the issues and the statistics. I'm just not aware of how or what "the system being stacked against them" means. Based on the illegality of racial discrimination, it would seem that our historical racial slavery should become less and less of an excuse as time goes on, no?

How many times does it need to be said?? We are two generations removed from the Civil Rights Movement. A magic button wasn't pressed to make everybody not racist anymore and put everybody on equal footing. All of societies ills didn't just vanish. Seriously, man. Do you live in a vacuum?

Why must the ratio of "percentage of population" to "bad things" be the same for every demographic subgroup?

Those disparities are what statisticians would call "statistically significant". Which basically says "we need to analyze this" to a statistician.

So, why do these disparities exist? Coincidence? Is it because blacks are just bad people? Or could the answer be much more complex? What do you think? Seriously, what do you think? I want to know.

[Donger]

How many times does it need to be said?? We are two generations removed from the Civil Rights Movement. A magic button wasn't pressed to make everybody not racist anymore and put everybody on equal footing. All of societies ills didn't just vanish. Seriously, man. Do you live in a vacuum?

Again, I'm just not aware of how or what "the system being stacked against them" means. You didn't write that, but if you agree with it, I'd like hear your opinion on the specifics.

[exterminator]

Why must the ratio of "percentage of population" to "bad things" be the same for every demographic subgroup?

So who's fault is it that black kids drop out of school? Whitey's?

It's the white man's fault because they're in prison?

I guess it's the white mans fault that they have babies and don't raise em.

I guess it's the white mans fault that some of them are on welfare.

They made these choices, they can live with it.

[Donger]

So, why do these disparities exist? Coincidence? Is it because blacks are just bad people? Or could the answer be much more complex? What do you think? Seriously, what do you think? I want to know.

I think it's pretty clear that Black people have a propensity to commit crimes that land them in jail at a higher rate than White people.

[exterminator]

I think it's pretty clear that Black people have a propensity to commit crimes that land them in jail at a higher rate than White people.


That and wearing their pants around their fucking ankles gives them street cred.

[loochy]

Those disparities are what statisticians would call "statistically significant". Which basically says "we need to analyze this" to a statistician.

So, why do these disparities exist? Coincidence? Is it because blacks are just bad people? Or could the answer be much more complex? What do you think? Seriously, what do you think? I want to know.

I don't know! Why do white people dance badly?

Also, even if these problems do stem from slavery, how in the hell is giving them money going to fix it? How is affirmative action going to fix it? Answer: It's not. It gives no stimulus to change the behaviors causing the problem in the first place. I think that can only be cured over time.

[SPATCH]

Again, I'm just not aware of how or what "the system being stacked against them" means. You didn't write that, but if you agree with it, I'd like hear your opinion on the specifics.

Ok. I have said that this is a complex issue with a myriad of contributing factors.

But you want specifics...

Many urban blacks do not have access to quality education at their inner city public schools. That statement is specific.

Now, you would probably like to know why inner city schools are bad. Well, there is a very complex answer with a myriad of contributing factors. Many of those factors stem from the historical issues which we have discussed.

[notorious]

Time

[Radar Chief]

I don't know! Why do white people dance badly?


No idea what you're talking about.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HQu_NLRvULM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[blaise]

Ok. I have said that this is a complex issue with a myriad of contributing factors.

But you want specifics...

Many urban blacks do not have access to quality education at their inner city public schools. That statement is specific.

Now, you would probably like to know why inner city schools are bad. Well, there is a very complex answer with a myriad of contributing factors. Many of those factors stem from the historical issues which we have discussed.

I can tell you this much - if anyone's waiting for the government or government money to get them out of a bad situation they're wasting their time.

[Donger]

Ok. I have said that this is a complex issue with a myriad of contributing factors.

But you want specifics...

Many urban blacks do not have access to quality education at their inner city public schools. That statement is specific.

Now, you would probably like to know why inner city schools are bad. Well, there is a very complex answer with a myriad of contributing factors. Many of those factors stem from the historical issues which we have discussed.

Thanks. Why or how is slavery or racism responsible for many inner city schools being crappy?

[SPATCH]

I think it's pretty clear that Black people have a propensity to commit crimes that land them in jail at a higher rate than White people.

I don't know! Why do white people dance badly?

Also, even if these problems do stem from slavery, how in the hell is giving them money going to fix it? How is affirmative action going to fix it? Answer: It's not. It gives no stimulus to change the behaviors causing the problem in the first place. I think that can only be cured over time.

I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO

[Frazod]

Guess what? I wasn't talking about an individual person. I was speaking in broad terms.

I understand this thread is about Lauryn Hill but we've got people in here talking about "ninjas gonna ninja" and "this is why stereotypes exist". Those are broad comments.

Some people like to think their is no basis for reparations (or things like affirmative action). However, if you know your history...

What if I'm descended from one of the hundreds of thousands of union soldiers who died fighting for their freedom? Great-great-grandpa frazod might have ended up being a land baron or railroad tycoon, but instead he got his ass shot off at Fredericksburg. What do I get?

Fuck your reparations.

[Donger]

I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO

No.

[JPPT1974]

Excuses, excuses for not paying taxes!

[SPATCH]

Thanks. Why or how is slavery or racism responsible for many inner city schools being crappy?

I have already stated that I believe that slavery/racism has nearly everything to do with it.

What do you believe is the explanation?

[GoChargers]

There's seriously people making excuses for her in here? Blathering on about reparations doesn't exonerate her from ducking taxes, period.

[Donger]

I have already stated that I believe that slavery/racism has nearly everything to do with it.

What do you believe is the explanation?

I would imagine that crappy teachers are a large part of it, along with a substantial amount of not giving a shit by the students.

[Donger]

I have already stated that I believe that slavery/racism has nearly everything to do with it.

What do you believe is the explanation?

I would also think that having over 50% (I think) of Black families not having a father present would contribute not only to crappy schools, but also drug use and other illegal activities.

[SPATCH]

What if I'm descended from one of the hundreds of thousands of union soldiers who died fighting for their freedom? Great-great-grandpa frazod might have ended up being a land baron or railroad tycoon, but instead he got his ass shot off at Fredericksburg. What do I get?

**** your reparations.

I am not advocating 40 acres and a mule, dude. Of course that wouldn't work.

But I do believe there is justification for our government to proactively attempt to undo some of the issues created by our forefathers.

I was simply pointing out that it isn't nutty to believe in something like reparations.

I do not believe that handing over money or goods is the answer, though. I never said that.

[SPATCH]

I would also think that having over 50% (I think) of Black families not having a father present would contribute not only to crappy schools, but also drug use and other illegal activities.

In our society on Mars would more black children end up fatherless than white children?

Yes or no?

[durtyrute]

I'm not sure about the slavery thing, but I don't know how anyone could not want to skip out on taxes. Why don't they take some of that quadra billion dollar defense budget or the millions in foreign aid or the unlimitless billions from NASA. So many people back the government even though they get fucked by them daily. It's mind bottling.

[DJ's left nut]

I am not advocating 40 acres and a mule, dude. Of course that wouldn't work.

But I do believe there is justification for our government to proactively attempt to undo some of the issues created by our forefathers.

I was simply pointing out that it isn't nutty to believe in something like reparations.

I do not believe that handing over money or goods is the answer, though. I never said that.

As does just about everyone else.

Here's the problem - it's been tried. Over and over and over again it's been tried. Magnet schools, minority scholarships, huge education grants to predominantly minority schools, funding formula modifications, on and on and on.

The government has done a TON to try to get more education to disenfranchised minorities but the problem is that oftentimes the family simply does not do their part in it.

"Provide education" is always the easy answer, but it presupposes that the government hasn't tried to do exactly that. They most certainly have and at some point, the black community has to take ownership of the fact that they have very frequently pissed those opportunities away.

[kcxiv]

that bitch knows NOTHING about being a slave what happened 400 years ago or even 100 years ago, is irrelevent to her, maybe her grandmother or her great grandmother, but to her? absolutely NOTHING.

I hate when people do that shit, its like bitch, you dont know what its like to be a slave.

[Donger]

In our society on Mars would more black children end up fatherless than white children?

Yes or no?

I would hope not. But I guess I don't see what slavery and racism has to do with the Blacks fathers' decisions to not take care of their kids.

[Chief_For_Life58]

I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO

Would the coca plant grow on this planet?

[ThaVirus]

PREFACE: I do not agree with Lauryn Hill's reparations excuse for not paying taxes, HOWEVER...

I think the average (white) citizens of our society sometimes lack perspective when it comes to the history of African Americans in our country.

1787: the Constitution of the United States is drafted. The 3/5 Compromise declares that black slaves are considered 3/5 of a person to help bolster voting bloc in southern US.

1870: 15th amendment passes giving blacks citizenship/right to vote.

*This means that less than 150 (only 5 generations ago) years ago blacks WERE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED PEOPLE BY OUR CONSTITUTION (they were 3/5 of a person - which is insanely dehumanizing, dudes).

1880s - 1960s: Much of the United States is hell-bent on keeping blacks out of mainstream society. Jim Crow laws are adopted, Plessy v Ferguson (separate but equal) rules, Ku Klux Klan forms up, etc.

WE ARE ONLY TWO GENERATIONS REMOVED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT (many of us were raised by parents who were raised in a systematically [and socially accepted] racist world).

If you don't believe that blacks have been systematically disadvantaged throughout the VAST majority of our nation's history then you do not know your history.

It takes time to overcome all of those things. Racism is still alive and well in our country (as has been repeatedly proven on this board). We have come a long way as a society, but there are still a lot of demons from our nation's past that need to be exorcised.

Insightful historical analysis.

[SPATCH]

As does just about everyone else.

Here's the problem - it's been tried. Over and over and over again it's been tried. Magnet schools, minority scholarships, huge education grants to predominantly minority schools, funding formula modifications, on and on and on.

The government has done a TON to try to get more education to disenfranchised minorities but the problem is that oftentimes the family simply does not do their part in it.

"Provide education" is always the easy answer, but it presupposes that the government hasn't tried to do exactly that. They most certainly have and at some point, the black community has to take ownership of the fact that they have very frequently pissed those opportunities away.

You're being too impatient. Remember where this country was just two generations ago.

I think those government initiatives toward the education of minorities are working. Things are improving and will continue to do so as long as they are in place.

Things don't change over night. Let this play out, man. It IS working.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Dumb bitch

[SPATCH]

Would the coca plant grow on this planet?

Yes

[cosmo20002]

It never ends does it?

Lauryn Hill Blames Slavery For Not Paying Her Taxes


Doesn't Lauryn Hill realize that slavery was necessary to teach black folks discipline and give them work skills?

/BEP aka BucEyedPea

[SPATCH]

I would hope not. But I guess I don't see what slavery and racism has to do with the Blacks fathers' decisions to not take care of their kids.

Can you offer a reason as to why we don't see it in our society on Mars, but we see it here?

[loochy]

I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO

NO

DUhr

unless of course there is some kind of genetic predisposition - after all there is genetic predisposition to make dudes like other dudes

reparations and affirmative action don't fix the problem NOW though

generations of blacks need to unlearn destructive behavior and generations of whites need to unlearn their racist/whatever behavior

[SPATCH]

NO

DUhr

unless of course there is some kind of genetic predisposition - after all there is genetic predisposition to make dudes like other dudes

reparations and affirmative action don't fix the problem NOW though

generations of blacks need to unlearn destructive behavior and generations of whites need to unlearn their racist/whatever behavior

...and I definitely agree with you.

However, there were a few people in this thread that were getting carried away with the idea that believing in a need for reparations makes a person "crazy". It is not crazy. But, it is also not the answer (which you have pointed out).

Government initiatives to further the education of minorities have a much more lasting benefit (as was pointed out by another poster).

[Donger]

Can you offer a reason as to why we don't see it in our society on Mars, but we see it here?

Sure, but let's see why you think it is here first.

[Skyy God]

It's the white man's fault because they're in prison?

Specifically, the judge and prosecutor, who, statistically, are likely to be white.

A new academic study of 58,000 federal criminal cases has found significant disparities in sentencing for blacks and whites arrested for the same crimes. The research led to the conclusion that <b>African-Americans’ jail time was almost 60% longer than white sentences.</b>

According to M. Marit Rehavi of the University of British Columbia and Sonja B. Starr, who teaches criminal law at the University of Michigan Law School, the racial disparities can be explained “in a single prosecutorial decision: whether to file a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence….Black men were on average more than twice as likely to face a mandatory minimum charge as white men were, holding arrest offense as well as age and location constant.” Prosecutors are about twice as likely to impose mandatory minimums on black defendants as on white defendants.

In federal cases, black defendants faced average sentences of 60 months, while the average for white defendants was only 38 months.

http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/black-americans-given-longer-sentences-than-white-americans-for-same-crimes?news=843984

[DJ's left nut]

You're being too impatient. Remember where this country was just two generations ago.

I think those government initiatives toward the education of minorities are working. Things are improving and will continue to do so as long as they are in place.

Things don't change over night. Let this play out, man. It IS working.

I'm not the one saying I shouldn't have to pay my taxes because of slavery.

I have no problem with us continuing programs like magnet schools, etc...; I think there's a great deal of promise in them.

However, bullshit attitudes like Hill's stand in the way of that progress, as does the continuing decline of family bonds within the black community. The unbelievably high rate of unwed single mothers among young black women has nothing to do with 'the system'.

And it's going to be what keeps any of that progress from being more than drops in the ocean.

No amount of government intervention will act as a viable substitute for parenting and a stable family. Right now it sure looks like there is very little value placed on those things within the black community. You're just building on sand.

[exterminator]

Doesn't Lauryn Hill realize that slavery was necessary to teach black folks discipline and give them work skills?

/BEP aka BucEyedPea



hahahaha

[Donger]

Specifically, the judge and prosecutor, who, statistically, are likely to be white.



http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/black-americans-given-longer-sentences-than-white-americans-for-same-crimes?news=843984

That's interesting. Does it take into account the possibility of repeat offenders?

[DJ's left nut]

I would like both of you to answer this one question, right now. Yes or no. Nothing else. Just YES or NO.

If a brand new society was started on Mars using the DNA of blacks and whites to create the children that would make up this brand new society (obviously, everybody in the society starts on completely equal footing). Do you think (generations down the road) that blacks would commit a statistically significant more amount of the crime there?

YES or NO

Unless you're a trained genetics expert, your answer here means precisely dick.

Oh sure, we can try to take the kind, cuddly approach to it and say "well hell no!" but what the hell do I know?

Whites are more genetically predisposed to certain diseases and physical maladies. Blacks are more predisposed to others. There are physical distinctions as well.

There might be behavioral or cognitive distinctions as well. I don't know. I don't claim to know - I know exactly jack shit about the biological makeup of the respective races.

Which is why your question is clearly little more than a trap question. None of us are even remotely qualified to answer it. Everyone knows the answer they should give, but their basis for giving it is based on...well nothing really.

Personally, I think if you dropped 100,000 black babies on Mars and 100,000 white babies on Mars, after several generations you'd see some kind of split in where they excelled and did not. I don't think there would be a predisposition towards criminal conduct, no. I don't know what the differences would be - but I'm confident there would be quite a few of them.

I also don't think that's terribly relevant to this discussion. I don't think biology is the problem in this instance.

[Skyy God]

That's interesting. Does it take into account the possibility of repeat offenders?

Don't know. But it stands to reason that if blacks are stopped and searched more frequently than whites (3x as likely) and arrested at higher rates (think this is also true), that would result in more priors for the judge to consider at sentencing.

It'd be a snowball effect.

[SPATCH]

Unless you're a trained genetics expert, your answer here means precisely dick.

Oh sure, we can try to take the kind, cuddly approach to it and say "well hell no!" but what the hell do I know?

Whites are more genetically predisposed to certain diseases and physical maladies. Blacks are more predisposed to others. There are physical distinctions as well.

There might be behavioral or cognitive distinctions as well. I don't know. I don't claim to know - I know exactly jack shit about the biological makeup of the respective races.

Which is why your question is clearly little more than a trap question. None of us are even remotely qualified to answer it. Everyone knows the answer they should give, but their basis for giving it is based on...well nothing really.

Personally, I think if you dropped 100,000 black babies on Mars and 100,000 white babies on Mars, after several generations you'd see some kind of split in where they excelled and did not. I don't think there would be a predisposition towards criminal conduct, no. I don't know what the differences would be - but I'm confident there would be quite a few of them.

I also don't think that's terribly relevant to this discussion. I don't think biology is the problem in this instance.

Which proves my point, precisely!

The issues that have arisen do not have a basis in biology. They have a basis in society.

African Americans were not born genetically predisposed to being criminals and dead-beat dads. Those are learned behaviors. Nuture, not nature. It has everything to do with environment and nothing to do with genetics.

Now that we have agreed that (all things being equal) these issues would not arise in our society on Mars (ruling out biology) we can begin to analyze the reasons why they exist in America. I have asserted that it has to do with the previous ills of our society. Do you have any other ideas?

*Also: I have a bachelor's degree in biochemistry and know a fair bit about genetics. I can tell you with 100% certainty that blacks/whites/asians/hispanics are all members of homo sapiens (meaning our genetic makeup is nearly identical).

[Donger]

Which proves my point, precisely!

The issues that have arisen do not have a basis in biology. They have a basis in society.

African Americans were not born genetically predisposed to being criminals and dead-beat dads. Those are learned behaviors. Nuture, not nature. It has everything to do with environment and nothing to do with genetics.

Now that we have agreed that (all things being equal) these issues would not arise in our society on Mars (ruling out biology) we can begin to analyze the reasons why they exist in America. I have asserted that it has to with the previous ills of our society. Do you have any other ideas?

*Also: I have a bachelor's degree in biochemistry and know a fair bit about genetics. I can tell you with 100% certainty that blacks/whites/asians/hispanics are all members of homo sapiens (meaning our genetic makeup is nearly identical).

As long as you aren't saying that ALL of Black societal ills can be traced to slavery and racism, I'm with you.

I think we have some Black people on CP. What do you people say?

[Radar Chief]

What do you people say?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2yx2lpv.jpg

[DJ's left nut]

Which proves my point, precisely!

The issues that have arisen do not have a basis in biology. They have a basis in society.


Slow down there, sport - this is where your leap in logic falls apart.

These things absolutely have a basis in biology but it's not biology that's exclusive to the black community.

They started in a hole - they've stayed in the hole. 'Society' has done its damndest to stop digging and I think by and large that has been done quite well. Additionally, 'society' has also taken steps to try to throw some dirt into said hole and help raise people out of it.

But the folks in it aren't doing a hell of a lot of scooping on their own. Had you taken whites out of Europe, tossed them into Africa, disenfranchised them for 200 years and then set them free - well they'd probably be in shitty shape in comparison to the 'native' Africans as well. I don't subscribe to an idea that white's would've done this any better (afterall, look at backwoods Kentucky).

What I am saying is that you're claiming that the system is getting in the way and that's simply not the case. The system is trying to take measured, reasoned steps towards leveling the playing field and all to often those people they are trying to help go limp and act as dead weight.

At this point, the efforts are being made. It's time to set down the axes that people like Lauryn Hill are grinding and help yourselves as well. The die has been cast; it can't just be undone. Sorry - just as I wasn't born into a the Vanderbilt clan - some people just have a shittier path than others. Such is the way of it.

Now take ownership of where you are, where you can be and more importantly, where your children can be.

Quit blaming 'society' for everything. Society can only do so much and at some point you're just going to have to help yourselves or {gasp} make hard choices and sacrifices for the benefit of your family.

[exterminator]

Chinese and Vietnamese people come to this country with nothing and can't speak English. Within a couple of years they own restaurants, nail salons and laundries.

Indian people come here with nothing and also can't speak English. They go on to get degrees, become engineers and their children win spelling bees.

IT'S CALLED WORK ETHIC.

This is not a blanket statement, but more often than not it seems that some black communities are content with letting the government fund their lives.

So what does that make them? Slaves to the government. They complain about slavery yet they participate in it willingly.

[SPATCH]

Slow down there, sport - this is where your leap in logic falls apart.

These things absolutely have a basis in biology but it's not biology that's exclusive to the black community.

They started in a hole - they've stayed in the hole. 'Society' has done its damndest to stop digging and I think by and large that has been done quite well. Additionally, 'society' has also taken steps to try to throw some dirt into said hole and help raise people out of it.

But the folks in it aren't doing a hell of a lot of scooping on their own. Had you taken whites out of Europe, tossed them into Africa, disenfranchised them for 200 years and then set them free - well they'd probably be in shitty shape in comparison to the 'native' Africans as well. I don't subscribe to an idea that white's would've done this any better (afterall, look at backwoods Kentucky).

What I am saying is that you're claiming that the system is getting in the way and that's simply not the case. The system is trying to take measured, reasoned steps towards leveling the playing field and all to often those people they are trying to help go limp and act as dead weight.

At this point, the efforts are being made. It's time to set down the axes that people like Lauryn Hill are grinding and help yourselves as well. The die has been cast; it can't just be undone. Sorry - just as I wasn't born into a the Vanderbilt clan - some people just have a shittier path than others. Such is the way of it.

Now take ownership of where you are, where you can be and more importantly, where your children can be.

Quit blaming 'society' for everything. Society can only do so much and at some point you're just going to have to help yourselves or {gasp} make hard choices and sacrifices for the benefit of your family.


We're on the same page, dude. I agree with you.

[Oxford]

:doh!:Don't know. But it stands to reason that if blacks are stopped and searched more frequently than whites (3x as likely) and arrested at higher rates (think this is also true), that would result in more priors for the judge to consider at sentencing.

It'd be a snowball effect.

:banghead::banghead::banghead: Oh GOD, it's racial profiling :doh!:

Priors=Prior convictions which implys evidence presented before a judge or judge/jury. Of course that evidence and witnesses were a frame up, because of some lingering racial bias.

Tickets/Charges by Police Officers are just allegations until signed by the prosecutor and filed with the court. At that point it is a "charge" which is adjudicated and then if a finding of guilty is rendered it becomes a conviction. If the charge is dismissed, found not guilty or some other disposition it is closed to public scrutiny.

[Just Passin' By]

I know exactly why the 3/5 compromise came to be. The point remains the same.

Our constitution did not recognize blacks as citizens until the 15th ammendment. Even free blacks in northern states were denied citizenship/right to vote.

The point was that our own constitution was systematically racist up until the 1880s and into the 20th century.

Do not confuse the point.

No, the point is that you either didn't know what you were talking about, or you were lying in order to further your argument. Since you claim you knew "exactly", that means you're a liar.

[Setsuna]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2yx2lpv.jpg

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

[Coach]

Rule of thumb....

Pay your taxes on time. Simple as that.

[Deberg_1990]

She won't pay her taxes and rails against the evils of the US.......... but didn't have any problems taking advantage of this countries freedoms and capitalism on the way to being a multimillionaire and reaching the top of her profession?? This slavery thing is just an excuse.

[Sorter]

http://i.minus.com/iI7E6Tn24DPVy.gif

[Coach]

She won't pay her taxes and rails against the evils of the US.......... but didn't have any problems taking advantage of this countries freedoms and capitalism on the way to being a multimillionaire and reaching the top of her profession?? This slavery thing is just an excuse.

Oh yeah, no doubt.

Instead of taking responsibility of her own actions, she's blaming it on unsubstantiated claims that has no merit.

This is why I never had much, if any, role models growing up that was/is a celebrity.

[Coach]

http://i.minus.com/iI7E6Tn24DPVy.gif

:D

[LoneWolf]

Personally, I think if you dropped 100,000 black babies on Mars and 100,000 white babies on Mars, after several generations you'd see some kind of split in where they excelled and did not. I don't think there would be a predisposition towards criminal conduct, no. I don't know what the differences would be - but I'm confident there would be quite a few of them.

I think you would have 200,000 dead babies. Even if they survived being dropped, they couldn't survive on Mars.

[KC native]

Chinese and Vietnamese people come to this country with nothing and can't speak English. Within a couple of years they own restaurants, nail salons and laundries.

Indian people come here with nothing and also can't speak English. They go on to get degrees, become engineers and their children win spelling bees.

IT'S CALLED WORK ETHIC.

This is not a blanket statement, but more often than not it seems that some black communities are content with letting the government fund their lives.

So what does that make them? Slaves to the government. They complain about slavery yet they participate in it willingly.

JFC You are a fucking dip shit. The people that start businesses have the means to start them. Banks don't give loans to people with no means to repay them.

India has a high rate of English fluency due to the British colonization years and Western dominance of international business.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

[Sannyasi]

Chinese and Vietnamese people come to this country with nothing and can't speak English. Within a couple of years they own restaurants, nail salons and laundries.

Indian people come here with nothing and also can't speak English. They go on to get degrees, become engineers and their children win spelling bees.

IT'S CALLED WORK ETHIC.

This is not a blanket statement, but more often than not it seems that some black communities are content with letting the government fund their lives.

So what does that make them? Slaves to the government. They complain about slavery yet they participate in it willingly.

This is an example of self-selection bias. The kind of people who are going to travel half way across the globe to a foreign country to try to find success are going to be very determined people.

[ThaVirus]

Take a look at the contact situations between the different racial and ethnic groups in this country:

Blacks- Taken from their homeland and forced into slavery.

Native Americans- Conquered and basically eradicated. What little remained were forced onto reservations.

Various Asian ethnic groups- Came to the country willingly looking for a better life.

Middle Easterners- Came to the country willingly looking for a better life.

I don't think its a coincidence that black and Native Americans are experiencing similar economic issues while Asians and Middle Easterners have had quite a bit more success.

[Rausch]

Take a look at the contact situations between the different racial and ethnic groups in this country

I'm still trying to figure out what you mean here...

[Rausch]

I don't think its a coincidence that black and Native Americans are experiencing similar economic issues while Asians and Middle Easterners have had quite a bit more success.

Stupid, fucking STUPID comparison.

What about the Irish, Germans, and Jews?

[houstonwhodat]

JFC You are a ****ing dip shit. The people that start businesses have the means to start them. Banks don't give loans to people with no means to repay them.

India has a high rate of English fluency due to the British colonization years and Western dominance of international business.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Nope.

[ThatRaceCardGuy]

Ha ha you know you are in the wrong on a race issue when even THATGUY thinks you are crazy.

You're an idiot.

[Garcia Bronco]

Everybody is in a group and hates the other groups. Sounds like high school.

[notorious]

Lauren Hill and this thread need to impale themselves on an AIDS tree stump.

[stevieray]

Take a look at the contact situations between the different racial and ethnic groups in this country:

Blacks- Taken from their homeland and forced into slavery.

Native Americans- Conquered and basically eradicated. What little remained were forced onto reservations.

Various Asian ethnic groups- Came to the country willingly looking for a better life.

Middle Easterners- Came to the country willingly looking for a better life.

I don't think its a coincidence that black and Native Americans are experiencing similar economic issues while Asians and Middle Easterners have had quite a bit more success.

SOLD into slavery.

Let's not pretend that Indians weren't violent and weren't involved in fighting with and against the British..

you know why SOME blacks still struggle? SOME blacks refuse to forgive, and can't move forward.

[Donger]

SOME blacks refuse to forgive, and can't move forward.

Like Dante Hall.

[loochy]

You're an idiot.

1.) I thought we were on the same side on this issue. :(

2.) I'm very proud of you for using "you're" instead of "your."

[KC native]

SOLD into slavery.

Let's not pretend that Indians weren't violent and weren't involved in fighting with and against the British..

you know why SOME blacks still struggle? SOME blacks refuse to forgive, and can't move forward.

Stevieray the authoritative source on black Americans ROFL

[lawrenceRaider]

Bumps the same guy who thought Android and Microsoft were the same thing.

FYI, here's Bump's reference to Andoid = PC(microsoft)

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7994543#post7994543

[Garcia Bronco]

SOLD into slavery.

Let's not pretend that Indians weren't violent and weren't involved in fighting with and against the British..


And with each other.

[ThaVirus]

I'm still trying to figure out what you mean here...

Basically the history of how the groups interactions began in this country.

Native Americans were already here, obviously. The Europeans came here with imperialistic motives and through disease and warfare damn near wiped out their entire race. Being in intense competition with them, the Europeans did everything in their power to destroy their society and painted them as dangerous savages while doing so.

The first blacks were brought here around 1519, I think. They were then subjugated for the next 400+ years, relegated to less-than second-class citizen status.

Then you have the Asian and Middle Eastern groups. They came here farrr later and under totally different circumstances. I want to say the first influx of Asian immigrants didn't touch down until well into the 20th century and Middle Eastern groups came much later than that. Also, as some others already pointed out, the types of people that travel across the globe looking for opportunity are a different breed of people and their situation is often more conducive to becoming successful in the end.

Stupid, ****ing STUPID comparison.

What about the Irish, Germans, and Jews?

Do you really not see the difference?

Those white ethnic groups did face a shit ton of prejudice and discrimination. People fear what they don't know and don't understand. Then you throw in the fact that they offered a good bit of competition to those already living in America... The difference between those ethnic groups and blacks and Native Americans is that they're white and, being so, are able to assimilate much more readily. Its tough to tell a 3rd generation German American from a British American or French American, whereas you can tell who is black/Native American just based off easily identifiable physical feature.

SOLD into slavery.

Let's not pretend that Indians weren't violent and weren't involved in fighting with and against the British..

you know why SOME blacks still struggle? SOME blacks refuse to forgive, and can't move forward.

I'm not interested in pointing fingers at who started the chain. All that matters is the outcome, really. Regardless of whether some blacks were taken by whites or sold by other Africans, the outcome in this country has been 400+ years of persecution. Slavery in America has fostered a great deal of prejudice and racism that we still feel today.

You really just have to sit back and think about it; open your mind. For over 400 years, most blacks in this country were either kept in outright slavery or kept from basic human rights. The Civil Rights Movement was less than 50 years ago. A lot of posters on this board are 50+! That means there are a shit ton of people that post here regularly that were either born in a time when black people had to use separate fucking toilets or were raised by parents that surely do.

It's easy for white males to sit back and say "I don't know why they can't just get their shit together!". Well, no shit! We come from homes where education and success are not only encouraged but expected. We have family lines that go back for centuries accumulating wealth and building good values; blacks in this country (as a whole) were purposely kept from accumulating wealth and building status until very recently.

From around 1960 until now, that's what? 3 or 4 generations? We've come a loooooong fucking way. A long damn way. But to pretend like racism, and, yes, even institutionalized racism, don't still exist is just being disingenuous.

[Setsuna]

I hope people know Africans had slaves from tribes they conquered as well. Don't act like this is an invention of white people. It's humans. Color doesn't even exist there.

Edit: And if Hill's ancestors never came here, she'd be a slave over there right now...what a crybaby.

[houstonwhodat]

I hope people know Africans had slaves from tribes they conquered as well. Don't act like this is an invention of white people. It's humans. Color doesn't even exist there.

Edit: And if Hill's ancestors never came here, she'd be a slave over there right now...what a crybaby.

haha

true dat

[Nightfyre]

Blacks make up 12% of the US population and 38% of the federal prison population, while whites make up 72.4% of the population and only 34% of the federal prison population. This is after a severe drop over the last decade for incarcerated blacks.

You can read about the advancement here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/us/incarceration-rates-for-blacks-dropped-report-shows.html?_r=0

Interestingly enough, another article came out on 2.27.13.

This one says that the wealth gap between blacks and whites has nearly tripled in the last 25 years.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/02/27/racial-wealth-gap-growing/1948899/

Blacks also have more than twice the high school drop out rate than whites.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_113.asp

so, you either think these facts are due to blacks being categorically inferior to whites or it is due to a system that is stacked against them.

EDIT: These were the first three things off the top of my head. I'm sure...
voting rates.
Percentage in elected office.
Likelihood of being a victim of violent crime.
Poverty rate.
life span
college degrees
higher degrees

and incalculable other conditions vastly favor whites.

Interesting, but what conclusions can you draw from that? What conclusion can you draw from the fact that 12% of African Americans have used a payday loan as opposed to 4% for Caucasians and 6% for other ethnicities? Is it a function of a societal pressure or decision making or education? You can't draw conclusions from it. All you can do is give people an opportunity, which America does well, imo.

[ThaVirus]

Can we get a Setsuna name change to Uncle Tom? LMAO Pretty please?

[Setsuna]

Can we get a Setsuna name change to Uncle Tom? LMAO Pretty please?

Get a new punch line. PLAYED OUT.