Late night bullshit: The Pistol Offense 101

[Direckshun]

Paging Sorter, and anybody else on this board with high football acumen.

This thread is about all things Pistol. It seems the Chiefs are going with a WCO/pistol hybrid offense with Alex Smith.

What is the pistol offense? What's it's core philosophy?

What kind of personnel do you need for it?

Why is it argued that Alex Smith would be a good fit for it, i.e. what about his skillset makes him a good match for it?

What does a defense generally need to do to shut it down?

Rep for any and all useful answers that illuminate the issue for yours truly.

[Great Expectations]

Chase (I'm not a fanboy of his after watching him coke against OU) is also a well suited backup for the pistol.

[JoeyChuckles]

To run the pistol, I believe you need at least one guy named Peter or Pete.

[Sorter]

I should have some plays saved somewhere that I think are from Nevada. Give me a minute.

[wasi]

IIRC the episode of Gruden QB camp with Geno Smith talked about his experience with the Pistol.

I guess we will never know but it makes me wonder if Dorsey would have drafted Geno had they not traded the second away.

[Sorter]

This is the only one I have saved but it isn't the one I remember/was talking about. If I find the actual PB I have saved somewhere, I'll post it.


Edit: It won't let me post a PP. Fuck.

[KCUnited]

Most likely to get laid in the next 180 days, Direk or R2D2 build guy?

[Saccopoo]

Meyers spread system:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/41mI1oC_gfI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ault's pistol system:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rmwVE7BbDDs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Both very similar systems and similar players.

Require smart, athletic QB's that can make quick read/adjustments at the line of scrimmage, particularly going from the pass to a QB run/shovel option.

With the Childress hire and now having Ault doing consulting, it looks like Reid really means what he says in terms of giving Alex Smith a shot at doing the QB position to his advantage.

[Sorter]

Paging Sorter, and anybody else on this board with high football acumen.

This thread is about all things Pistol. It seems the Chiefs are going with a WCO/pistol hybrid offense with Alex Smith.

What is the pistol offense? What's it's core philosophy?

What kind of personnel do you need for it?

Why is it argued that Alex Smith would be a good fit for it, i.e. what about his skillset makes him a good match for it?

What does a defense generally need to do to shut it down?

Rep for any and all useful answers that illuminate the issue for yours truly.

As far as this is concerned, the pistol's "core philosophy" is to slow down defense reaction time and confuse (by utilizing a RB behind the QB). The main run plays you'll see will vary depending on O philosophy but there is generally a high utilization of Jab, stretch, inside zone, and power plays (sounds like nearly every offense). However, the beauty behind it with a mobile QB is that you can incorporate a jab play + a ZR passing option, which completely fucks over a defense mentally. They have to account for weak side/counter runs, QBs that can run, and deal with PA. Additionally, as you see with Harbaugh, the incorporation of Jab+Power plays really fucks with ILBs/S when they can't commit downhill to guard pulls.

As far as personnel, it really depends on your philosophy. Are you going to incorporate the ZR/do you have a mobile QB, etc. You can run it without using the ZR and it still confuses defenses simply due to the physical alignment of the RB. Additionally, you can come out with "Diamond" looks that allow you to vary your personnel packages from "heavy" to 2RB/1TE/2WR looks from the same alignment.

Any QB is a good fit for it depending on the playcalling, structure, etc. Alex could be a good fit and allow ZR options on plays due to his speed. He's underrated as a runner but nobody's confusing him with RG3. Think Aaron Rodgers.

To shut down the "pistol" is like asking "How do you shut down 1-on slot?". Shutting down a formation is impossible. Shutting down plays out of it is an entirely different matter.

[Direckshun]

This is the only one I have saved but it isn't the one I remember/was talking about. If I find the actual PB I have saved somewhere, I'll post it.


Edit: It won't let me post a PP. ****.

Email it to me. thwonkt@hotmail.com

[Buehler445]

You beat it by hitting the quarterback. Hard. Early and often.

[Sorter]

Email it to me. thwonkt@hotmail.com

Sent

[Dante84]

Draw up some sweet plays in MS Paint, someone.


Yeah. I said it. Bitch.

[Pitt Gorilla]

You beat it by hitting the quarterback. Hard. Early and often.Pretty much this. However, you can run a lot of traditional running plays out of the pistol.

[Thig Lyfe]

All you need to run the pistol is TYLER FUCKING THIGPEN.

[Sorter]

http://i.imgur.com/wtPIpNE.jpg

[Pitt Gorilla]

All you need to run the pistol is TYLER ****ING THIGPEN.I thought about pointing that out; Chiefs fans had a good half-season of pistol-type offense.

[Sorter]

http://i.imgur.com/tnn75By.jpg

[TimeForWasp]

This thread made me do some looking. Alex is a pretty good runner. I think they did it wrong in San Fran.

[Sorter]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-Nevada-s-Pistol-by-any-other-?urn=ncaaf,176983

[Direckshun]

http://i.imgur.com/wtPIpNE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tnn75By.jpg

This shit gets me hard.

Rep.

[Saccopoo]

This thread made me do some looking. Alex is a pretty good runner. I think they did it wrong in San Fran.

Obviously.

However, it seems that Reid is wanting to do it right here in Kansas City with Smith.

Charles and Bowe should be absolute beasts in this offense - more so than they already have been to this point.

[Direckshun]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-Nevada-s-Pistol-by-any-other-?urn=ncaaf,176983

Oh god yes.

Somebody else rep Sorter, please.

[Thig Lyfe]

This thread made me do some looking. Alex is a pretty good runner. I think they did it wrong in San Fran.

Shoulda just kept Thigpen. Twice the talent at half the price.

[Buehler445]

I thought about pointing that out; Chiefs fans had a good half-season of pistol-type offense.

We won 1 game in that stretch IIRC

[Saccopoo]

Shoulda just kept Thigpen. Twice the talent at half the price.

http://sas.guidespot.com/bundles/guides_rg/assets/widget_bJOUudYjXcWl1fAD5eQ05r.jpg

[Simply Red]

All you need to run the pistol is TYLER ****ING THIGPEN.

I have LJS acumen.

[Thig Lyfe]

http://sas.guidespot.com/bundles/guides_rg/assets/widget_bJOUudYjXcWl1fAD5eQ05r.jpg

Lemme do the math for you.

THIGPEN + SMITH = THIGPENSMITH

THIGPENSMITH = 3

3 = 2 + 1

THIGPEN = 2, SMITH = 1

2 = 1 x 2



Any questions???

[Hammock Parties]

potato

[Simply Red]

Oh god yes.

Somebody else rep Sorter, please.

it's like you're in some sort of trance.

[TimeForWasp]

I also think that the reason we are bringing in RBs and fullbacks is because we are going to give teams like Denver a hard time keeping their QB on the field. Time of possession will be big this year.

[J Diddy]

All you need to run the pistol is TYLER ****ING THIGPEN.

Thigpens arm made Cassell seem like Montana. Dude could run and that's about it. He was basically a poor man's Tebow before Tebow arrived.

[Thig Lyfe]

Thigpens arm made Cassell seem like Montana. Dude could run and that's about it. He was basically a poor man's Tebow before Tebow arrived.

HE COULD ALSO CATCH BAYBEEEE!!!!

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/JackBurton86/Thigpen_wk9.jpg

[Hammock Parties]

Thigpens arm made Cassell seem like Montana. Dude could run and that's about it. He was basically a poor man's Tebow before Tebow arrived.

Thigpen threw for more yards per game when we put the pistol in (220) than any other QB since Green.

Hilarious.

[AussieChiefsFan]

DoneOh god yes.

Somebody else rep Sorter, please.

[jd34]

One of the advantages of the Pistol not yet mentioned is that the tailback starts from the same 7 yards behind the LOS that he would in a conventional I. This is a big plus because the RB has the same amount of time to look for the hole as he would in the I but the defense cannot commit to an inside run quite as quickly because if they do the QB pulls the ball out and goes outside. OTOH, if the defense stays on the edge to shut down the QB going out, the OL now has a blocking advantage in the middle of the LOS. (the blocking advantage for the interior of the OL is significant) SF did this in the second half to Atlanta in the NFCC game last year and Gore gashed the Falcons big time.

Also, the Pistol creates a lot of gaps between the numbers for receivers. With so much focus being required now with an extra RB (QB) in the backfield, the LBs have to have their head on a swivel to watch for TEs crossing or going on wheel routes up the sideline.

Alex Smith did run quite a few plays last season from the Pistol prior to his concussion and was very smooth in doing so. After all, he ran something very similar at Utah as was noted by the earlier video.

Overall, things just happen a little bit quicker from the Pistol than from the I and the offense has one more weapon to attack from the ground. So while you never want your QB taking a lot of hits while running the ball, in most cases, when he does, he is not going to be gang tackled or absorb quite so many hard hits as a RB, at least if the reads it correctly.

[Thig Lyfe]

One of the advantages of the Pistol not yet mentioned is that the tailback starts from the same 7 yards behind the LOS that he would in a conventional I. This is a big plus because the RB has the same amount of time to look for the hole as he would in the I but the defense cannot commit to an inside run quite as quickly because if they do the QB pulls the ball out and goes outside. OTOH, if the defense stays on the edge to shut down the QB going out, the OL now has a blocking advantage in the middle of the LOS. (the blocking advantage for the interior of the OL is significant) SF did this in the second half to Atlanta in the NFCC game last year and Gore gashed the Falcons big time.

Also, the Pistol creates a lot of gaps between the numbers for receivers. With so much focus being required now with an extra RB (QB) in the backfield, the LBs have to have their head on a swivel to watch for TEs crossing or going on wheel routes up the sideline.

Alex Smith did run quite a few plays last season from the Pistol prior to his concussion and was very smooth in doing so. After all, he ran something very similar at Utah as was noted by the earlier video.

Overall, things just happen a little bit quicker from the Pistol than from the I and the offense has one more weapon to attack from the ground. So while you never want your QB taking a lot of hits while running the ball, in most cases, when he does, he is not going to be gang tackled or absorb quite so many hard hits as a RB, at least if the reads it correctly.

tl;dr smith sux thigpen rulz

[LiveSteam]

Inverted wishbone

[Thig Lyfe]

Inverted wishbone

sounds hot

[LiveSteam]

sounds hot

Dam your right

[J Diddy]

Thigpen threw for more yards per game when we put the pistol in (220) than any other QB since Green.

Hilarious.

It is hilarious. Especially since he did it at a whopping 54.8% completion rate and a 76 passer rating. However, has 18 td to 12 picks is inspiring as well.

Yeah that would certainly make him more qualified than Alex Smith.

Seriously the fucker won one game out of 11. Or to put it in a meaningless statistic that you seem to value: He was 0 for 6 in games started where the opponent scored more than 24 points.

[threebag]

Most likely to get laid in the next 180 days, Direk or R2D2 build guy?

R2D2 build guy

[Direckshun]

Thigpen also did diddly poo in the second halves of games.

His wild inaccuracy made receiving the ball impossible for just about everybody except Tony Gonzalez, and teams learned that you could easy neuter his scrambling ability by sending both of your pass rushers straight out against the edges to keep him in the pocket.

[Mugalug]

R2D2 build guy


Agreed.

[jd34]

Another advantage that the motion of the Pistol creates is that it allows WRs to block down on LBs and even DLs that would otherwise be too big and strong to block. However, with so much attention now being focused in the backfield immediately after the snap, the slot receiver or split end/flanker can come down unnoticed and block effectively on a much bigger opponent. By taking a blind side angle on a player heading upfield, the leverage favors the player with the better angle despite being a smaller player.

A version of this that Ault/Kaepernick ran well was a fake to the RB and then a quick toss outside. This movement kept the opponent charged with sealing the perimeter tight to the LOS and allowed the receiver blocking down to give the RB room to turn the corner. Even a relatively light (210 lb) WR can neutralize a 260+ pound defender with the angle advantage. With Charles speed and the size of the Chiefs WRs, this could be a very good series to run against aggressive defenses: think Bowe clearing deep and Baldwin blocking down on Von Miller. :)

[Titty Meat]

Thigpen also did diddly poo in the second halves of games.

His wild inaccuracy made receiving the ball impossible for just about everybody except Tony Gonzalez, and teams learned that you could easy neuter his scrambling ability by sending both of your pass rushers straight out against the edges to keep him in the pocket.

We will be a pass spread offense. The signing of Booger Daniels makes a lot of sense for this offense.

Also Sorter mentioned something I was going to mention and that's the diamond formation. Kniles Davis and Jamaal Charles are both perfect backs to be on the field when/if we go to that formation.

[Titty Meat]

McCluster should get a lot of open field looks in this offense as well

[patteeu]

Meyers spread system:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/41mI1oC_gfI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ault's pistol system:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rmwVE7BbDDs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Both very similar systems and similar players.

Require smart, athletic QB's that can make quick read/adjustments at the line of scrimmage, particularly going from the pass to a QB run/shovel option.

With the Childress hire and now having Ault doing consulting, it looks like Reid really means what he says in terms of giving Alex Smith a shot at doing the QB position to his advantage.

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference. For example:

In the Alex Smith video at 0:39, he's lining up 4.5 yards deep and his halfback is offset and about 1.5 yards behind.

In the Kaepernick video, he's lining up 4.5 yards deeps and his halfback is lined up 3 yards directly behind.

[patteeu]

Thigpen also did diddly poo in the second halves of games.

His wild inaccuracy made receiving the ball impossible for just about everybody except Tony Gonzalez, and teams learned that you could easy neuter his scrambling ability by sending both of your pass rushers straight out against the edges to keep him in the pocket.

We would have been better off drafting two or three more Tony Gonzalezes than getting rid of Thigpen in favor of Croyle/Cassel/Palko/Orton, in retrospect.

[Thig Lyfe]

We would have been better off drafting two or three more Tony Gonzalezes than getting rid of Thigpen in favor of Croyle/Cassel/Palko/Orton, in retrospect.

Finally somebody with some sense!!!

[patteeu]

Finally somebody with some sense!!!

I don't like hushpuppies, but I do like a good diamond-shaped piece of LJS fish.

[Thig Lyfe]

I don't like hushpuppies, but I do like a good diamond-shaped piece of LJS fish.

Diamond-shaped piece of LJS fish > actual diamond

gave my girlfriend an LJ Silvers platter and asked her to marry me... she said YES!!!

[Aspengc8]

As far as this is concerned, the pistol's "core philosophy" is to slow down defense reaction time and confuse (by utilizing a RB behind the QB). The main run plays you'll see will vary depending on O philosophy but there is generally a high utilization of Jab, stretch, inside zone, and power plays (sounds like nearly every offense). However, the beauty behind it with a mobile QB is that you can incorporate a jab play + a ZR passing option, which completely ****s over a defense mentally. They have to account for weak side/counter runs, QBs that can run, and deal with PA. Additionally, as you see with Harbaugh, the incorporation of Jab+Power plays really ****s with ILBs/S when they can't commit downhill to guard pulls.

As far as personnel, it really depends on your philosophy. Are you going to incorporate the ZR/do you have a mobile QB, etc. You can run it without using the ZR and it still confuses defenses simply due to the physical alignment of the RB. Additionally, you can come out with "Diamond" looks that allow you to vary your personnel packages from "heavy" to 2RB/1TE/2WR looks from the same alignment.

Any QB is a good fit for it depending on the playcalling, structure, etc. Alex could be a good fit and allow ZR options on plays due to his speed. He's underrated as a runner but nobody's confusing him with RG3. Think Aaron Rodgers.

To shut down the "pistol" is like asking "How do you shut down 1-on slot?". Shutting down a formation is impossible. Shutting down plays out of it is an entirely different matter.

This is good info. The pistol is really just a formation, and you can run almost any offensive philosophy behind it. One of the main benefits of pistol over shotgun is the ability to sell run action better, because the QB turns his back (reverse out, hiding the ball). We played against 2 teams from NYC when I was playing minor league, that ran this shit. Very annoying to read.

[NewChief]

R2D2 build guy

Definitely. He does to Cons, and the fangirls there would love to touch his droid.

[tecumseh]

Excellent post. Best football post of the Andy Reid era. Answers alot of my questions. Leaning toward Sunday ticket after a two year hiatus. It's a bingo.

[patteeu]

Excellent post. Best football post of the Andy Reid era. Answers alot of my questions. Leaning toward Sunday ticket after a two year hiatus. It's a bingo.

Two years? That's nothing. Direckshun has gone longer than that without the touch of a woman.

[mcaj22]

i still refuse to believe Andy is going to run the pistol. He didnt when he had Vick why would he do it now.

[O.city]

The Pistol is basically the shotgun, with some different concepts. I don't see why it would be a big deal having Smith in it.

I don't want him running alot as I'm not really a big fan of having your franchise QB running the ball alot when he's not built like a tank ala Cam or ungodly athletic like Kaep.

[patteeu]

The Pistol is basically the shotgun, with some different concepts. I don't see why it would be a big deal having Smith in it.

I don't want him running alot as I'm not really a big fan of having your franchise QB running the ball alot when he's not built like a tank ala Cam or ungodly athletic like Kaep.

Agree.

[Dunerdr]

I cant get that excited about most of our offseason but the pistol makes me jimp. Were not ahead of the curve but atleast its halfass modern.

[Tribal Warfare]

i still refuse to believe Andy is going to run the pistol. He didnt when he had Vick why would he do it now.

With a glass QB no less.

[Ming the Merciless]

Most likely to get laid in the next 180 days, Direk or R2D2 build guy?

r2d2 build guy












if he installs a fleshlight attachment into the droid

[O.city]

The Pistol is basically the shotgun, with some different concepts. I don't see why it would be a big deal having Smith in it.

I don't want him running alot as I'm not really a big fan of having your franchise QB running the ball alot when he's not built like a tank ala Cam or ungodly athletic like Kaep.

Or when said QB is likely a single concussion away from being done with the NFL.

[Tribal Warfare]

Or when said QB is likely a single concussion away from being done with the NFL.

or re-injures his surgically operated throwing shoulder

[O.city]

or re-injures his surgically operated throwing shoulder

I'm not really worried about his shoulder. That can heal again.


Concussion and the dude is done.

[Ming the Merciless]

or re-injures his surgically operated throwing shoulder

or falls into fetal position every time pocket moves

[Tribal Warfare]

I'm not really worried about his shoulder. That can heal again.


Concussion and the dude is done.

It's still a black mark on his reliability to be the Franchise QB if he can't stay healthy.

[O.city]

It's still a black mark on his reliability to be the Franchise QB if he can't stay healthy.

For sure.

Was it actually his throwing shoulder he hurt though? I was thinking it was the other one.

[Sorter]

r2d2 build guy












if he installs a fleshlight attachment into the droid

powerful pawnmower

[Tribal Warfare]

For sure.

Was it actually his throwing shoulder he hurt though? I was thinking it was the other one.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2008/11/05/shoulder-surgery-for-alex-smith/

correct

[Fat Elvis]

Definitely. He does to Cons, and the fangirls there would love to touch his droid.

These are the droids you are looking for....

[jd34]

For sure.

Was it actually his throwing shoulder he hurt though? I was thinking it was the other one.

It was his throwing shoulder. The initial injury was repaired but a piece of wire that was left in the joint to assure the proper healing would take place came lose and actually began to saw into the bone and soft tissue. That required a second surgery which was successful. He has since taken some pretty big hits on that shoulder with no adverse consequences.

As to concussions; a lot of players have had to sit out a week as a result of a concussion. Those are just one of the issues of the game. The concussion he sustained came on a play where he very uncharacteristically did not protect himself well when he went down.

[Thig Lyfe]

I hope Alex Smith's arm falls off and then before he gets a chance to re-attach it, KC Wolf runs over it on his ATV.

[Dante84]

Ault isn't even moving here; he's essentially acting as a consultant for us, most likely for defensive game planning.

Chris Ault’s role

Reid said former Nevada head coach Chris Ault, who was hired as a consultant, will work from his home in Reno in helping the Chiefs learn to defense and possibly install his specialty, the pistol formation, for certain situations.

“He’s been here once, and visited with the defense,” Reid said, “and he visited with (offensive assistant) Brad Childress, and they went over stuff. He’s not moving here … I’ll give him projects to do and work together with Brad.”

Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith has experience with the pistol, which was run by San Francisco last year, especially after Colin Kaepernick — who played for Ault at Nevada — took over for Smith as the starter.

“I’m excited about it,” Smith said of Ault’s role. “He’s a wealth of knowledge. From me being exposed to it playing with Colin and the little bit we were doing … it’s a great addition

[Rausch]

T0dd Haley: Offensive genius.

Chan Gailey: total idiot dumb enough to retard our offense by implementing a college approach that will never work in the NFL...

[Thig Lyfe]

Ault isn't even moving here; he's essentially acting as a consultant for us, most likely for defensive game planning.

Google Hangouts brah!!!

[Namor40]

You beat it by hitting the quarterback. Hard. Early and often.

Pretty much. This is how teams shut down the Run and Shoot back in the day, the difference now is that QB's essentially have no-contact flags on them. The strategy of lighting the QB up on every play can't work with modern rules, at least not the way they used to when QB's used to get mugged wholesale. Go see some clips of Warren Moon looking like he got run down by a mack truck.

Its still the best way to proceed, but not nearly as effective as it once was.

[Namor40]

With a glass QB no less.


Where are people getting this from? From everything I've seen, he's very resilient and tends to take heavy beatings and still gets back up. He had one major injury but beyond that has been injury-free.

[Tribal Warfare]

Where are people getting this from? From everything I've seen, he's very resilient and tends to take heavy beatings and still gets back up. He had one major injury but beyond that has been injury-free.

He's started only two more games than Matt Cassel, and Smith has a 4 year head start in that department and he's only had two seasons where he's played the full 16 games of the regular season.

[Rasputin]

Geno Smith would have been great to run The Pistol Offense.

[Sandy Vagina]

Alex has had his injuries, but if he can avoid further concussions (which he's had only two minor ones spaced out over the years), I'd expect him to play the full season. I mean, sure, any QB can miss a game or two throughout a season. That's as possible as it is for most any other QB. He is pretty tough though, and typically pops right back up from hits that you wouldn't expect him to.