Division by Division All-Star Teams

[ThaVirus]

http://davedameshek.nfl.com/2013/07/03/division-by-division-all-pro-teams/?campaign=Facebook_blog_dameshek

...

A few other quick notes: We’ve eschewed the fullback position in favor of adding a third wide receiver to each offensive lineup. (Sorry, old schoolers: If you haven’t heard, it’s a passing league … and besides, it’s more fun this way.) You’ll also see we’ve put the defenses into either 4-3 or 3-4 formations based on what we feel best suits the available talent. Additionally, please note we’ve skipped the special teams. Yeah, yeah, all three phases of the game are important. Then again, there’s a grilled wiener and several beers waiting for me — you can do it if you’re sufficiently upset by the grievous oversight.

And now, behold the teams, assembled in ascending order of strength:

8. AFC EAST
Coach: Bill Belichick

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Tom Brady
Running back: C.J. Spiller
Wide receivers: Stevie Johnson, Mike Wallace, Santonio Holmes
Tight end: Rob Gronkowski
Offensive tackles: D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Nate Solder
Guards: Logan Mankins, Richie Incognito
Center: Nick Mangold

DEFENSE (4-3)
Defensive ends: Mario Williams, Cameron Wake
Defensive tackles: Vince Wilfork, Kyle Williams
Outside linebackers: Jerod Mayo, David Harris
Inside linebacker: Dannell Ellerbe
Cornerback: Antonio Cromartie, Stephon Gilmore
Safeties: Devin McCourty, Jairus Byrd

Number of players by team …
Bills: 6
Dolphins: 4
Jets: 5
Patriots: 7

Analysis: Brady notwithstanding, the offense is pretty crummy. And the defense might be even worse.



7. AFC SOUTH
Coach: Gary Kubiak

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Andrew Luck
Running back: Arian Foster
Wide receivers: Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Kenny Britt
Tight end: Owen Daniels
Offensive tackles: Duane Brown, Eugene Monroe
Guards: Wade Smith, Andy Levitre
Center: Chris Myers

DEFENSE (4-3)
Defensive ends: Robert Mathis, Antonio Smith
Defensive tackles: J.J. Watt, Cory Redding
Outside linebackers: Brian Cushing, Pat Angerer
Inside linebacker: Paul Posluzny
Cornerback: Johnathan Joseph, Vontae Davis
Safeties: Ed Reed, Michael Griffin

Number of players by team …
Colts: 6
Jaguars: 2
Texans: 11
Titans: 3

Analysis: One man — even one as good as J.J. Watt — does not a defense make. Likewise, one team’s roster does not make for a great divisional squad, and the AFC South is too dependent on the Texans’ best players.



6. AFC WEST
Coach: Andy Reid

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Peyton Manning
Running back: Jamaal Charles
Wide receivers: Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Dwayne Bowe
Tight end: Antonio Gates
Offensive tackles: Ryan Clady, Brandon Albert
Guards: Louis Vasquez, Geoff Schwartz
Center: Nick Hardwick

DEFENSE (4-3)
Defensive ends: Dwight Freeney, Tamba Hali
Defensive tackles: Tyson Jackson, Corey Liuget
Outside linebackers: Von Miller, Justin Houston
Inside linebacker: Derrick Johnson
Cornerback: Brandon Flowers, Champ Bailey
Safeties: Eric Berry, Eric Weddle

Number of players by team …
Broncos: 6
Chargers: 6
Chiefs: 10
Raiders: 0

Analysis: Neither unit lacks for big-time playmakers, but the collective team likely gets pushed around by more physical divisions.



5. NFC EAST
Coach: Tom Coughlin

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Robert Griffin III
Running back: “Shady” McCoy
Wide receivers: Dez Bryant, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz
Tight end: Jason Witten
Offensive tackles: Jason Peters, Trent Williams
Guards: Evan Mathis, Todd Herremans
Center: Phil Costa

DEFENSE (4-3)
Defensive ends: DeMarcus Ware, Jason Pierre-Paul
Defensive tackles: Jay Ratliff, Fletcher Cox
Outside linebackers: Ryan Kerrigan, Anthony Spencer
Inside linebacker: Sean Lee
Cornerback: Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne
Safeties: Antrel Rolle, Kenny Phillips

Number of players by team …
Cowboys: 9
Eagles: 5
Giants: 5
Redskins: 3

Analysis: A fascinating cupboard of offensive talent, yes … but the worst secondary of the eight divisions is the team’s undoing.



4. NFC SOUTH
Coach: Sean Payton

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Drew Brees
Running back: Doug Martin
Wide receivers: Julio Jones, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson
Tight end: Jimmy Graham
Offensive tackles: Donald Penn, Jordan Gross
Guards: Carl Nicks, Jhari Evans
Center: Ryan Kalil

DEFENSE (4-3)
Defensive ends: Charles Johnson, Osi Umenyiora
Defensive tackles: Gerald McCoy, Jonathan Babineaux
Outside linebackers: Sean Weatherspoon, Lavonte David
Inside linebacker: Luke Kuechly
Cornerback: Darrelle Revis, Asante Samuel
Safeties: Dashon Goldson, Thomas DeCoud

Number of players by team …
Buccaneers: 7
Falcons: 7
Panthers: 4
Saints: 4

Analysis: Even the galaxy of stars on offense won’t put up enough points to offset the relatively mediocre defense.



3. AFC NORTH
Coach: Mike Tomlin

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Ben Roethlisberger
Running back: Ray Rice
Wide receivers: A.J. Green, Torrey Smith, Antonio Brown
Tight end: Heath Miller
Offensive tackles: Joe Thomas, Andrew Whitworth
Guards: Marshal Yanda, Kevin Zeitler
Center: Maurkice Pouncey

DEFENSE (3-4)
Defensive ends: Michael Johnson, Geno Atkins
Defensive tackles: Haloti Ngata
Outside linebackers: LaMarr Woodley, Terrell Suggs
Inside linebacker: Lawrence Timmons, Vontaze Burfict
Cornerback: Joe Haden, Ike Taylor
Safeties: Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark

Number of players by team …
Bengals: 6
Browns: 2
Ravens: 5
Steelers: 9

Analysis: Running against this defense figures to be a near-impossible challenge for any team, and Roethlisberger relishes the rare opportunity of playing behind a terrific o-line.



2. NFC NORTH
Coach: Mike McCarthy

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Aaron Rodgers
Running back: Adrian Peterson
Wide receivers: Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Greg Jennings
Tight end: Kyle Rudolph
Offensive tackles: Jermon Bushrod, Matt Kalil
Guards: Brandon Fusco, T.J. Lang
Center: John Sullivan

DEFENSE (4-3)
Defensive ends: Jared Allen, Julius Peppers
Defensive tackles: Ndamukong Suh, Henry Melton
Outside linebackers: Clay Matthews, Chad Greenway
Inside linebacker: Stephen Tulloch
Cornerback: “Peanut” Tillman, Sam Shields
Safeties: Harrison Smith, Glover Quin

Number of players by team …
Bears: 5
Lions: 4
Packers: 4
Vikings: 9

Analysis: The NFL’s best players at three offensive skill positions (QB; RB; WR) and a fearsome pass rush (Allen and Peppers and Matthews? Eek!) are undermined ever so slightly by the shoddy o-line.



1. NFC WEST
Coach: Jim Harbaugh

OFFENSE
Quarterback: Colin Kaepernick
Running back: Marshawn Lynch
Wide receivers: Larry Fitzgerald, Percy Harvin, Michael Crabtree
Tight end: Vernon Davis
Offensive tackles: Joe Staley, Russell Okung
Guards: Mike Iupati, James Carpenter
Center: Max Unger

DEFENSE (3-4)
Defensive ends: Chris Long, Darnell Dockett
Defensive tackles: Justin Smith
Outside linebackers: Aldon Smith, Daryl Washington
Inside linebacker: NaVorro Bowman, Patrick Willis
Cornerback: Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman
Safeties: Earl Thomas, Donte Whitner

Number of players by team …
49ers: 10
Cardinals: 4
Rams: 1
Seahawks: 7

Analysis: The NFC West wins thanks a shutdown defense and a rugged offensive line that’ll brutalize all comers. Congratulations, coach Harbaugh — you’re No. 1! Let’s shake on it. Kudos to the NFC in general. Based on our conclusions, all conferences are not created equal. The debate on which division is most dynamic even drew enthusiasm from my friends at the Around the League blog, who kibitzed on the topic in a juicy email chain.

[ThaVirus]

Fucked up the quote feature, but whatever. There ain't much going on 'round these parts so I thought this was kinda interesting.

Any snubs or disagreements with the choices or rankings? Personally, I think I might throw the NFC North on top. I have no clue how anyone would ever have a hope of stopping an offense led by Aaron Rodgers with Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, and Brandon Marshall.

Also, check out the Chiefs dominating the AFC West roster. Suck it, KnowMo.

[-King-]

Chiefs have no talent! /mcaj22

[AussieChiefsFan]

Yeah I saw these. Pretty good lists IMO.

Dave Dameshek also has the Uniform Bracket competition going on too.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

ROFL

Chiefs 10
Raiders 0

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Chiefs have no talent! /mcaj22

Easily the most talented and best coached team in the division. ..Too bad Denver has a chemically enhanced Manning.

[ChiefGator]

It's interesting how poor the TE talent is in the AFC West, after years of having some of the best tight ends in the league. Antonio Gates was picked for the AFC West, but he is clearly not what he has been in the past. The last two years haven't been good.

[BigMeatballDave]

Chiefs have no talent! /mcaj22

Wickedson/Bambi said that, too.

Dipshits.

[Marcellus]

Chiefs have no talent! /mcaj22

Yea I am beginning think he is just a troll. Not sure why it has taken me so long.

[-King-]

Easily the most talented and best coached team in the division. ..Too bad Denver has a chemically enhanced Manning.

If it wasn't for Pioli, I'm 100% sure we would have got Manning and went to the Superbowl last year. Jamaal Charles would have averaged 8 yards a carry with the running room he'd have.
Posted via Mobile Device

[MagicHef]

Eric Berry?

Geoff Schwartz?

TYSON JACKSON!?

[-King-]

Eric Berry?

Geoff Schwartz?

TYSON JACKSON!?
Who would you replace them with? I agree that Geoff Schwartz shouldnt be on there. But I'd replace him with Asomoah. Should we replace Berry with Raheem Moore :)
Posted via Mobile Device

[vailpass]

If it wasn't for Pioli, I'm 100% sure we would have got Manning and went to the Superbowl last year. Jamaal Charles would have averaged 8 yards a carry with the running room he'd have.
Posted via Mobile Device

ROFL

[MagicHef]

Who would you replace them with? I agree that Geoff Schwartz shouldnt be on there. But I'd replace him with Asomoah. Should we replace Berry with Raheem Moore :)
Posted via Mobile Device

Absolutely I would replace Berry with Moore. Moore can actually cover.

I'd take Asomoah or Beadles over Schwartz.

I would take literally anyone over Jackson. I can't believe he's on here.

[Rain Man]

Geoff Schwartz?




Our team is so good that our backups are the best players in the division. In fact, our team is so good that our backups are even better than our starters.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Eric Berry?
:spock:

[-King-]

Absolutely I would replace Berry with Moore. Moore can actually cover.
.

He sure can.

http://www.broncosgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rahim-Moore.jpg

[AussieChiefsFan]

He sure can.

http://www.broncosgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rahim-Moore.jpgPrecisely.

[MagicHef]

One play.

Meanwhile, over the course of the regular season, Berry gave up 5 TDs, while Moore gave up 1.

Berry had 12 missed tackles, while Moore had 8.

Berry was selected due to his name, not his play.

[AussieChiefsFan]

One play.

Meanwhile, over the course of the regular season, Berry gave up 5 TDs, while Moore gave up 1.

Berry had 12 missed tackles, while Moore had 8.

Berry was selected due to his name, not his play.Berry also has more tackles, assists, and passes deflected in 2012.

[IowaChiefs83]

Since when did Tyson Jackson play DT? Are the defensive tackles in the divison really that weak that Tyson Jackson gets the nod?

I'm glad to see there is still a total slurp fest going on with the NFC North thanks to the emergence of the Seahawks. That team was a forgotten franchise until last year. Also I'll take Russell Wilson over Collin at this point.

[MagicHef]

Berry also has more tackles, assists, and passes deflected in 2012.

Moore: 3rd in targets per coverage snap
Berry: 59th, also known as dead last in the league

Moore: 9th in yards per coverage snap
Berry: 55th

Moore: 14th in receptions per coverage snap
Berry: 57th

[ThaVirus]

How is Moore in run support?

[AussieChiefsFan]

Moore: 3rd in targets per coverage snap
Berry: 59th, also known as dead last in the league

Moore: 9th in yards per coverage snap
Berry: 55th

Moore: 14th in receptions per coverage snap
Berry: 57thOuch. I'm curious as to what affect going up against Cassel twice vs going up against Peyton Manning twice has on those stats. Probably not enough to even them out though.

How is Moore in run support?I was wondering this too. One of Berry's strength's is run support.

[-King-]

Moore: 3rd in targets per coverage snap
Berry: 59th, also known as dead last in the league

Moore: 9th in yards per coverage snap
Berry: 55th

Moore: 14th in receptions per coverage snap
Berry: 57th

Dat dere PFF.

In other news, we got a top 10 QB guys!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[MagicHef]

How is Moore in run support?

Slightly above average. He's rarely asked to play up against the run, but he misses tackles at a very low rate. He's 12th in tackling efficiency, while Berry is 28th.

[notorious]

I thought Berry got roasted a lot last year. I like him, but let's not be blinded too much.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Absolutely I would replace Berry with Moore. Moore can actually cover.

I'd take Asomoah or Beadles over Schwartz.

I would take literally anyone over Jackson. I can't believe he's on here.

Dumb

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I thought Berry got roasted a lot last year. I like him, but let's not be blinded too much.

Last 6 games last year he was as good as any safety in the league

[Pasta Little Brioni]

PFF is fine but you would have to be a retard donkey to take Moore over a healthy Berry

[BlackHelicopters]

Tyson Jackson? Got it.

[mcaj22]

Chiefs have no talent! /mcaj22

Tyson Jackson and Geoff Schwartz being on there is laughable. Come on

You can say that for every other division too, whoever wrote this doesnt watch football. Pat Angerer at LB in the South? Cromartie and Gilmore over Talib? yea right.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Tyson Jackson and Geoff Schwartz being on there is laughable. Come on

You can say that for every other division too, whoever wrote this doesnt watch football. Pat Angerer at LB in the South? Cromartie and Gilmore over Talib? yea right.

OK, so we still have 8 then. 9 if you take Asamoah over Schwartz (highly regarded PFF player for that donco homer)

[MagicHef]

OK, so we still have 8 then. 9 if you take Asamoah over Schwartz (highly regarded PFF player for that donco homer)

Oh wow, Asamoah? Great call.

Absolutely I would replace Berry with Moore. Moore can actually cover.

I'd take Asomoah or Beadles over Schwartz.

I would take literally anyone over Jackson. I can't believe he's on here.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I guess they could have put that sack of shit Wolfe on there

[Quesadilla Joe]

PFF grades teams starting lineups....

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6950/koap.png

Notes:

– Consider me someone not yet sold on Alex Smith. His numbers over the past two years, combined with a seemingly nice offensive fit, might suggest a winning formula, but how is he going to cope without that 49ers offensive line and that 49ers defense putting him in favorable situations?

– The left guard spot is an interesting one. Will a new GM stay loyal to last year’s second-round pick, Jeff Allen? Or will the always impressive Geoff Schwartz work his way into the lineup? The former Panther and Viking has found himself largely on the outside on gameday because of injuries, but would, given the tape on both men, be a significant upgrade.

– The Chiefs spent much of last year in base as they chased games, but they may have to bring in more of their sub-package defense and that will be something to watch. Last year none of their interior defensive linemen achieved a positive grade rushing the passer, and they need to give their edge rushers some help when it comes to harassing quarterbacks.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/10/khaleds-nfl-daily-july-10-2013/


http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3448/xz8v.png

Notes:

– Ronnie Hillman might be the starter in Week 1, but I don’t expect it will be long before they either promote Ball or go back to Knowshon Moreno. Hillman looks a reasonable change-of-pace option but his late season performances did nothing to suggest extended playing time.

– Vasquez is an excellent guard and a perfect fit for this offense; he’s a superb pass protector, mistake free and certainly a worthy UFA pick-up. However, his lack of domination in the running game meant I couldn’t bring myself to grade him higher at this point.

– The grading of Chris Harris may have some people new to PFF wondering if I’ve made a mistake, but over the past two years he has been the best slot corner in football. Last year he gave up a catch rate of only 57% and a QB rating of 66.5 while playing 325 snaps in the slot. He may well be the most underrated player in the NFL.https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/05/neils-nfl-daily-july-5-2013/

[AussieChiefsFan]

I was agreeing with the gradings, until I saw that Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, and Dwayne Bowe were on the same level as Mike DeVito.

Good to see Asamoah as High Quality, but I'd possibly put Hali and Johnson as Blue Chip and Justin Houston at High Quality.

[MagicHef]

I was agreeing with the gradings, until I saw that Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, and Dwayne Bowe were on the same level as Mike DeVito.

Good to see Asamoah as High Quality, but I'd possibly put Hali and Johnson as Blue Chip and Justin Houston at High Quality.

Hali and DJ are not blue chip players. That means they are the best of the best at their position. An OLB who is poor against the run and managed 9 sacks last season does not qualify.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Hali and DJ are not blue chip players. That means they are the best of the best at their position. An OLB who is poor against the run and managed 9 sacks last season does not qualify.Well then you'd have to at least downgrade DeVito, right?

[MagicHef]

Well then you'd have to at least downgrade DeVito, right?

Yeah, a guy who is good against the run but provides no pass rush probably shouldn't be "high quality."

[MagicHef]

I'd switch DeVito and Houston, on further thought.

Also, in what universe is Robert Ayers average? The guy is awful.

[Mr. Laz]

Todd Haley and Romeo Crennel suck shit

[ChiTown]

PFF grades teams starting lineups....

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6950/koap.png



https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/10/khaleds-nfl-daily-july-10-2013/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/05/neils-nfl-daily-july-5-2013/

:deevee:

[Chief Faithful]

Is there another Geoff Schwartz in the West other than the one who has yet to play for the Chiefs and may not crack the starting lineup? What happened to Asamoah who is arguably one of the best young guards in the AFC?

Ok, I just saw Tyson Jackson's name on the list, which answers all my questions.

Genious :doh!:

[ThaVirus]

KnowMo, that list contradicts this rep message you sent me a couple days ago:

"They left off Trindon Holliday, John Fox, and Wolfe. The Chiefs may have a bunch of above average players but nobody except Charles is a difference maker. Manning, DT, Holliday, Von, Champ and Clady are ELITE at their positions."

-Based on that shoddy list, the Chiefs and Broncos actually have the same number of "elite" and "high quality" players.

-It specifically said it was nixing special teams in the header. Read more, fap to Peyton's forehead less.

-How would John Fox deserve the spot over Andy Reid? They're both 0-1 in Super Bowls and Reid brought the Eagles to 5 NFC Championship games from 01-09. The Eagles were one of the most successful teams during that span. The Panthers? Not so much.

-If you actually agree with this list, then you'll have to agree that Flowers is superior to Champ Bailey. Do it now, KnowMo. Tell us all that you agree that Brandon Flowers is a better CB than Champ Bailey.

[ThaVirus]

Demaryius Thomas is not elite.

[RunKC]

Absolutely I would replace Berry with Moore. Moore can actually cover.


ROFL

[Mav]

Moore? The guy who ultimately cost the broncos the playoff game? Cool.

I think a better argument, would be having Geoff Schwartz on this list. he has done nothing to prove that. Better to take the raider. Wisinewski. Hes far better than Vazquez or Schwartz.

And as for DeVito, people are really going to be surprised at this guy. He is studly against the run, constantly demands two blockers attention, and is an pure effort guy. Hes by far the best chiefs d linemen.

[vailpass]

Demaryius Thomas is not elite.

Not yet but he's trending that way.

[Quesadilla Joe]

The Chiefs have one elite player, that's Charles. You guys do have a bunch of good players but nobody outside of Charles that you have to gameplan for. I also think it's a stretch to call Flowers elite. He's very good but he's small and can't cover guys like Decker and DT.

The Broncos have 5-7 elite players at their positions.

DT is elite... You can't cover him one on one, not with his size, speed and YAC ability. The Steelers tried covering him one on one in the playoffs and he went for 200 yards.

Welker is the best slot receiver in the game.

Clady is the best pass blocking LT in the NFL. You will never see Denver give Clady any help.

Champ is elite, and I disagree with PFF saying that Harris is better. Champ covers the other teams #1 receiver every game without help and AJ Green was the only WR to score a TD on him during the regular season IIRC.

Trindon Holliday is the best return man in the game right now.

Von is Von, no description necessary.

Manning also needs no description.

[MagicHef]

Moore? The guy who ultimately cost the broncos the playoff game? Cool.

I think a better argument, would be having Geoff Schwartz on this list. he has done nothing to prove that. Better to take the raider. Wisinewski. Hes far better than Vazquez or Schwartz.

And as for DeVito, people are really going to be surprised at this guy. He is studly against the run, constantly demands two blockers attention, and is an pure effort guy. Hes by far the best chiefs d linemen.

Keep reading the week-old thread:

One play.

Meanwhile, over the course of the regular season, Berry gave up 5 TDs, while Moore gave up 1.

Berry had 12 missed tackles, while Moore had 8.

Berry was selected due to his name, not his play.

Moore: 3rd in targets per coverage snap
Berry: 59th, also known as dead last in the league

Moore: 9th in yards per coverage snap
Berry: 55th

Moore: 14th in receptions per coverage snap
Berry: 57th

[Mav]

The Chiefs have one elite player, that's Charles. You guys do have a bunch of good players but nobody outside of Charles that you have to gameplan for. I also think it's a stretch to call Flowers elite. He's very good but he's small and can't cover guys like Decker and DT.

The Broncos have 5-7 elite players at their positions.

DT is elite... You can't cover him one on one, not with his size, speed and YAC ability. The Steelers tried covering him one on one in the playoffs and he went for 200 yards.

Welker is the best slot receiver in the game.

Clady is the best pass blocking LT in the NFL. You will never see Denver give Clady any help.

Champ is elite, and I disagree with PFF saying that Harris is better. Champ covers the other teams #1 receiver every game without help and AJ Green was the only WR to score a TD on him during the regular season IIRC.

Trindon Holliday is the best return man in the game right now.

Von is Von, no description necessary.

Manning also needs no description.

lots of homer fail here. Ill help you out though.

Wes Welker, is not the best slot man in the game right now. VICTOR CRUZ IS. Second, Champ Bailey is not elite anymore. Sorry. hes a level below that. And don't even get me started on Chris Harris.

The only elite broncos, and one of these is debateable, are Manning, Von, and Clady. And even I think Clady is the 3rd best left tackle in the afc, much less the nfl.

That would be Joe Thomas, and Duane Brown. They are both better right now today, than Clady.

And im sorry, but you are beyond outside of your mind if you think that DT, is better than Dwayne Bowe. No one outside of Bronco land would ever say that. Dwayne Bowe is a stud despite always playing with mediocre qbs.

and his 200 yard playoff game, came against the steelers, who didn't have Ryan Clark, or Polomalu....Spare me.

[Mav]

Keep reading the week-old thread:

Wow. Well, considering that Berry played 3 times as many snaps as Moore did, due to the ineptness of the Chiefs offense, these numbers don't surprise me. there have to be checks and balances. Like, the Broncos had an amazing pass rush. The chiefs ran a non attacking passive style defense. These things all factor in. All things being equal at this moment. lets compare this at the end of this season......

I prefer it that way.

[Quesadilla Joe]

And im sorry, but you are beyond outside of your mind if you think that DT, is better than Dwayne Bowe. No one outside of Bronco land would ever say that. Dwayne Bowe is a stud despite always playing with mediocre qbs.

and his 200 yard playoff game, came against the steelers, who didn't have Ryan Clark, or Polomalu....Spare me.

Polomalu was playing. And DT is bigger, has better top end speed, is much quicker and has better hands than Dwayne Bowe.

[MagicHef]

Wow. Well, considering that Berry played 3 times as many snaps as Moore did, due to the ineptness of the Chiefs offense, these numbers don't surprise me. there have to be checks and balances. Like, the Broncos had an amazing pass rush. The chiefs ran a non attacking passive style defense. These things all factor in. All things being equal at this moment. lets compare this at the end of this season......

I prefer it that way.

Uh... Moore played more snaps than Berry did.

I'm sure you'd like to wait until after this season to compare. At that point, we may as well wait until after the next season to compare, what with this being their first season under Reid and all.

[Mav]

Polomalu was playing. And DT is bigger, has better top end speed, is much quicker and has better hands than Dwayne Bowe.

I thought he was hurt. my bad, and don't get me wrong, I love DT. loved him coming out. But, I don't think he is as good as Bowe......

[Mav]

Uh... Moore played more snaps than Berry did.

I'm sure you'd like to wait until after this season to compare. At that point, we may as well wait until after the next season to compare, what with this being their first season under Reid and all.

Well, who wouldn't. Moore played on a team with a hellacious pass rush, and a defensive head coach who is known for being able to generate pass rush. Romeo Crennel was the head coach of the Chiefs, who is a known passive aggressive, bend but don't break chump. I watched it in Cleveland. its horrible.

[MagicHef]

I thought he was hurt. my bad, and don't get me wrong, I love DT. loved him coming out. But, I don't think he is as good as Bowe......

Thomas has played in 39 games, including playoffs. He has 161 receptions, 2602 yards, and 18 TDs.

Through his first 39 games, Bowe had 183 receptions, 2392 yards, and 16 TDs.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Polomalu was playing. And DT is bigger, has better top end speed, is much quicker and has better hands than Dwayne Bowe.

Thomas is not better than Bowe in this world or any other except for your land of make believe. Bowe would beast with Jughead flinging the ball.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Thomas has played in 39 games, including playoffs. He has 161 receptions, 2602 yards, and 18 TDs.

Through his first 39 games, Bowe had 183 receptions, 2392 yards, and 16 TDs.

Peyton Manning.... Pass first offense

Tyler Thigpen/Brodie Croyle/Damon Huard/Tyler Palko/Matt Cassel....RRPP

[The Bad Guy]

Moore better than Berry?

Get the fuck out of here.

[MagicHef]

Peyton Manning.... Pass first offense

Tyler Thigpen/Brodie Croyle/Damon Huard/Tyler Palko/Matt Cassel....RRPP

Tebow

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Tebow

Peyton Manning

[ThaVirus]

I think Thomas and Bowe are pretty much even.

I'd put them in the 2nd tier of WRs. If you forced me to choose between Bowe, Thomas and Roddy White I'd have to draw from a hat.

[MagicHef]

Peyton Manning

None of the teams that Bowe played on in his first 39 games were nearly as inept at passing as the 2011 Broncos.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

None of the teams that Bowe played on in his first 39 games were nearly as inept at passing as the 2011 Broncos.

They were all inept

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

I thought Antonio Gates took an injury settlement and retired 2 years ago.

[MagicHef]

I think Thomas and Bowe are pretty much even.

I'd put them in the 2nd tier of WRs. If you forced me to choose between Bowe, Thomas and Roddy White I'd have to draw from a hat.

Talent wise, yes.

Considering everything, though: 31, 28, 25.

[ThaVirus]

Talent wise, yes.

Considering everything, though: 31, 28, 25.

Well there are so many variables its impossible to argue in a vacuum.

Roddy's been the most consistent but he's also had the help of 8 games per season in a dome with a good to great QB in Ryan.

Bowe's production has been a notch below but he's far and away dealt with the shittier QBs (Huard, Croyle, Thigpen, Cassel, Palko, Quinn) and abysmal offensive production.

Thomas just exploded on the scene last season and I don't think it's a coincidence that it happened when they signed the best QB in the history of the league. He didnt make much of a splash with Orton and Tebow chucking the rock...

Anyway, I'd say Manning has 2 more seasons max. I'd prefer to have this convo in 3 or 4 years. By that time we'll know more about Demaryius.

[Quesadilla Joe]

DT had a coming out party in December of 2011 while Tebow was QB. Then he went on and exploded against Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

He was always talented but he kept getting hurt earlier in his career. He had 97 yards and a TD in his first ever NFL game.

[O.city]

Thomas was actually good with Tebow.

[tredadda]

KnowMo, that list contradicts this rep message you sent me a couple days ago:

"They left off Trindon Holliday, John Fox, and Wolfe. The Chiefs may have a bunch of above average players but nobody except Charles is a difference maker. Manning, DT, Holliday, Von, Champ and Clady are ELITE at their positions."

-Based on that shoddy list, the Chiefs and Broncos actually have the same number of "elite" and "high quality" players.

-It specifically said it was nixing special teams in the header. Read more, fap to Peyton's forehead less.

-How would John Fox deserve the spot over Andy Reid? They're both 0-1 in Super Bowls and Reid brought the Eagles to 5 NFC Championship games from 01-09. The Eagles were one of the most successful teams during that span. The Panthers? Not so much.

-If you actually agree with this list, then you'll have to agree that Flowers is superior to Champ Bailey. Do it now, KnowMo. Tell us all that you agree that Brandon Flowers is a better CB than Champ Bailey.

:eek: What is he smoking?

[ThaVirus]

That's the benefit of having a HOF QB on the roster, he elevates the game of everyone on the offense. Especially a guy like Manning whose game is based on timing me precision. Clady is great but he's the one that should be thanking Manning the most.

[Setsuna]

tbh Thomas wasn't even 100% healthy in at least 8 of those 39 games, if not more.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Thomas has played in 39 games, including playoffs. He has 161 receptions, 2602 yards, and 18 TDs.

Through his first 39 games, Bowe had 183 receptions, 2392 yards, and 16 TDs.And one of those seasons was with Peyton freaking Manning at QB.

[-King-]

Thomas has played in 39 games, including playoffs. He has 161 receptions, 2602 yards, and 18 TDs.

Through his first 39 games, Bowe had 183 receptions, 2392 yards, and 16 TDs.

Dwayne Bowe in his first 39 games had Tyler Thigpen, Damon Huard, and Brodie Croyle throwing him the ball. In 16 of his last 39 games, Thomas had Peyton Manning thowing him the ball.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Dwayne Bowe in his first 39 games had Tyler Thigpen, Damon Huard, and Brodie Croyle throwing him the ball. In 16 of his last 39 games, Thomas had Peyton Manning thowing him the ball.This. Just imagine if Bowe had Manning throwing him the ball.

[MagicHef]

:eek: What is he smoking?

I agree that Thomas isn't elite, at least not yet.

Clady, however, is. Giving up zero sacks for his first 20 games is special. Only giving up 23 sacks while starting every game for five years is special.

There's a reason he'll get more money than Duane Brown.

[Dave Lane]

Easily the most talented and best coached team in the division. ..Too bad Denver has a chemically enhanced Manning.

IN the end its all about the QB...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

IN the end its all about the QB...

Yup, he makes guys like Clady (Hali's bitch) and Tremens look better than they are.