Who's your guy in the 4th quarter when losing to an above .500 team: Alex or Aa

[Discuss Thrower]

I pulled this link off of Reddit thinking this would be a great source of friendly banter and enlightened discussion. Who's more clutch in a comeback against winning teams? You want Captain Checkdown II- Electric Boogaloo or you want the Discount Double Check guy?

Here are the numbers:


http://http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/best-and-worst-quarterback-records-the-clutch-adjusted-for-strength-schedule/18941/

DISCUS.

[Hammock Parties]

10 in 7 years?

Stud.

[Discuss Thrower]

10 in 7 years?

Stud.

Percentages.

[Hammock Parties]

Pretty sure some of his amazing "comebacks" feature his team scoring less than 20 points.

Basically his defense kept the game close and he finally put up a few points by the end of the game.

It's the old Jake Plummer fraud. Suck ass for 3 quarters, pull it out in the 4th, get lauded for your amazing comebacks!

[Saccopoo]

Pretty sure some of his amazing "comebacks" feature his team scoring less than 20 points.

Basically his defense kept the game close and he finally put up a few points by the end of the game.

It's the old Jake Plummer fraud. Suck ass for 3 quarters, pull it out in the 4th, get lauded for your amazing comebacks!

Winning is winning C.E.

The guy set a 49'ers team record for 4th quarter comebacks in a season in 2011, and that team has had a couple of pretty decent QB's on their roster over the years.

Smith is better than people around here think and he'll finally get his chance with Reid here in Kansas City to prove that he's his own man. The poor bastard was saddled with some of the worst head coaches and offensive coordinators in recent NFL history and he showed he was a pretty capable QB when he finally experienced some stability and competency at the HC spot.

Both Reid and Smith are going to re-emerge here in KC. Both needed a change of scenery and they will be better for it in coming here. The coaching staff was well thought out and Dorsey seems to be a pretty good fit so far as GM. Pressure is off these guys as KC was the worst in the league last year, but there is talent on the team to exceed expectations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Kurt Warner at Arizona type of run out of Smith and Reid here over the next couple of years. They pieces are in place for such a situation IMO.

[Hammock Parties]

The idea he can bring a team from behind is really flawed. Just check out my sig.

[mdchiefsfan]

:popcorn:

[Predarat]

As long as he is better the Elvis Grbac im OK.

[Fat Elvis]

Pretty sure some of his amazing "comebacks" feature his team scoring less than 20 points.

Basically his defense kept the game close and he finally put up a few points by the end of the game.

It's the old Jake Plummer fraud. Suck ass for 3 quarters, pull it out in the 4th, get lauded for your amazing comebacks!

That same defense that allowed ~30 pts/game in the playoffs under Kaep....

You don't seem to understand that one of the reasons why the 49er defense was so good is because ASmith kept them off the field. Kaep is a homerun hitter; ASmith is a surgical striker.

[DanT]

Interesting topic heading post. Thanks for posting this, Discuss Thrower.

In data through Week 9 of 2012, both Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers had 25 opportunities for a 4th quarter comeback during their career. Smith was successful in 10 of those, while Rodgers was successful in 4.

For statistical significance testing of these data as presented, we would have to assume that the game results from the same QB are uncorrelated, which isn't quite right. But our results based on that assumption probably won't be too much different from what we would get if didn't have to make that assumption. In order to do the fancier analysis, we would need access to such information as how the QBs did in specific seasons (assuming that the probability of a given QB being successful varies from one season to the next as the QB matures and as each year's team gets better or worse).

Nevertheless, the Chi-square p-value for the difference in success proportions (computed by me, in Stata) is 0.059. This is not quite statistically significant at the conventional p < 0.050 threshold, so we wouldn't be able to claim that the differences we've seen so far in games reflect true differences in these QBs underlying probability of being successful. The plausible values for the true underlying difference (Smith minus Rodgers) in success probabilites that would be consistent with these data range from Rodgers being just barely better to Smith being a lot better (95% CI for difference in success proportion = -0.0001 to 0.49 ).

In the 17 opportunities against opponents with 0.500+ records that each QB coincidentally had, Smith was successful in 7 of those (41%), while Rodgers was never successful (0%).

[Mav]

The idea he can bring a team from behind is really flawed. Just check out my sig.

No. What is flawed, is your refusal to consider all variables when babbling. How many of those were before harbaugh? That's all that really matters to be honest. Your very premise that Alex Smith sucks, is all pre harbaugh, and you want to act like his time with Harbaugh never happened.

[mcaj22]

must be easy to put on a 4th quarter drive knowing you have a defense that didnt surrender a 100 yard rusher or a rushing touchdown the whole ****ing year

you get a few mulligans knowing your defense can bail you out

[mdchiefsfan]

Interesting topic heading post. Thanks for posting this, Discuss Thrower.

In data through Week 9 of 2012, both Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers had 25 opportunities for a 4th quarter comeback during their career. Smith was successful in 10 of those, while Rodgers was successful in 4.

For statistical significance testing of these data as presented, we would have to assume that the game results from the same QB are uncorrelated, which isn't quite right. But our results based on that assumption probably won't be too much different from what we would get if didn't have to make that assumption. In order to do the fancier analysis, we would need access to such information as how the QBs did in specific seasons (assuming that the probability of a given QB being successful varies from one season to the next as the QB matures and as each year's team gets better or worse).

Nevertheless, the Chi-square p-value for the difference in success proportions (computed by me, in Stata) is 0.059. This is not quite statistically significant at the conventional p < 0.050 threshold, so we wouldn't be able to claim that the differences we've seen so far in games reflect true differences in these QBs underlying probability of being successful. The plausible values for the true underlying difference (Smith minus Rodgers) in success probabilites that would be consistent with these data range from Rodgers being just barely better to Smith being a lot better (95% CI for difference in success proportion = -0.0001 to 0.49 ).

In the 17 opportunities against opponents with 0.500+ records that each QB coincidentally had, Smith was successful in 7 of those (41%), while Rodgers was never successful (0%).


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['Hamas' Jenkins]

That same defense that allowed ~30 pts/game in the playoffs under Kaep....

You don't seem to understand that one of the reasons why the 49er defense was so good is because ASmith kept them off the field. Kaep is a homerun hitter; ASmith is a surgical striker.

I remember when Herm trotted out this stupid line of bullshit about the Chiefs defense in 2006.

"The offense scored too fast!! The defense was bad because the offense was good!!"

The offense scoring makes it easier on a defense because it makes the other team more predictable.

[Mav]

must be easy to put on a 4th quarter drive knowing you have a defense that didnt surrender a 100 yard rusher or a rushing touchdown the whole ****ing year

you get a few mulligans knowing your defense can bail you out

Both of those are incorrect. They actually allowed 3 rushing touchdowns. One to the rams back up, back up qb, and lost their 100 yard rushing streak to Marshawn Lynch.

Which, also goes back to the way that Alex Smith, and the inept offense were able to control the clock, and the ball, and not turn it over, keeping the opposing team off the field. But hey, I just supply facts, you just continue on down your grumpy road to ass hole ville.

[DanT]

I'm expecting good things from Alex Smith, based on what I've seen of his performances living out here in 49ers country.

[Mav]

I remember when Herm trotted out this stupid line of bullshit about the Chiefs defense in 2006.

"The offense scored too fast!! The defense was bad because the offense was good!!"

The offense scoring makes it easier on a defense because it makes the other team more predictable.

That's fair, I guess. But im sorry. In this day and age, I am pretty sure that the less chances you give Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, the better. Trying to have a shootout with those guys, is a pretty stupid idea. Hence why the 49ers defense suddenly got worse when Kaep took over, and people wanted to point the blame at Justin Smith getting hurt. Uh, well, okay, ill buy some of that, but a majority of it was the fact that the 49ers turned the ball over more, they scored quicker, they gave other teams more chances.

It would be stupid for the Chiefs, who have invested so much in the run game, and Oline, to try to get into shootouts with people, because its playing away from the strengths of the team. And, me included, I don't necessarily think that trying to have a shoot out with Peyton Manning, and his RECEIVING CORPS, which just happens to be a top 3 receiving corps in the nfl with the Packers, and Saints, is a good strategy to have.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

If this were Bewitched. Alex would be the old Darren and Cassel would be the new gay Darren. Hope that helps.

[DanT]

The most important stat is winning, which is based on the point total at the end of the game. A fourth quarter comeback is nice, but to be in the situation where a fourth quarter comeback is necessary means that your team got outscored up to that point.

[Rausch]

Pretty sure some of his amazing "comebacks" feature his team scoring less than 20 points.

Basically his defense kept the game close and he finally put up a few points by the end of the game.

This.

And once the HC realized his defense was $#itting its pants (see last 11 games for SF) He decided to make a move at QB. He had to.

He no longer had the defense to play Martyball. His secondary was puking pts and his front 7 wasn't getting pressure/turnovers.

He needed that extra offensive spark he hoped the Kap could provide...

[cdcox]

Not specifically related to the Rogers vs. Smith debate, but I don't like that they defined a comeback opportunity as every time the offense/quarterback having possession in the fourth quarter while trailing by 1-8 points and then considering the only outcome as W or L.

All of these are treated the same:

1. not leading a comeback when down by 2 points with 3:00 left on the clock
2. not leading a comeback when down by 8 with 0:15 left on the clock
3. not leading a comeback when down by 8, getting the score and the conversion to tie, and then losing on a FG given up by your defense.

[Rausch]

The most important stat is winning, which is based on the point total at the end of the game.

Steve Bono = Best QB in Chiefs history...

[Fish]

No. What is flawed, is your refusal to consider all variables when babbling. How many of those were before harbaugh? That's all that really matters to be honest. Your very premise that Alex Smith sucks, is all pre harbaugh, and you want to act like his time with Harbaugh never happened.

LMAO.... All that really matters are his stats after Harbaugh? That's convenient...

But if that's the case, we should expect Alex to regress this year, since the difference maker Harbaugh won't be coaching him anymore. Bummer.....

[Mav]

This.

And once the HC realized his defense was $#itting its pants (see last 11 games for SF) He decided to make a move at QB. He had to.

He no longer had the defense to play Martyball. His secondary was puking pts and his front 7 wasn't getting pressure/turnovers.

He needed that extra offensive spark he hoped the Kap could provide...

What? lol. Okay Rausch. This is complete and utter bullshit. the 49ers other than the Giants game, from about weeks 4 till when alex got hurt in week 9, were DESTROYING PEOPLE.

Week 4. Jets 34-0 win
week 5 Buffalo 45-3 win
week 6 nyg loss 3-26
week 7 seattle 13-6, win
week 8 Arizona 24-3 Win alex smith goes for 18/19 defense gives up nothing.

those are the last 5 games alex smith started. What the fuck are you talking about. I really respect your takes normally, but this was just shit you pulled out of your ass. The defense started going to shit weeks 15, 16, and 17. Actually played badly against aaron Rodgers in the divisional round of the playoffs, played like crap against the falcons, and played badly in the super bowl. The qb switch had nothing to do with Jim Harbaugh wanting to protect his defense. Kaep was just his guy. his hand chosen drafted guy, that they moved up to get. This is just stupid bullshit.

[Mav]

LMAO.... All that really matters are his stats after Harbaugh? That's convenient...

But if that's the case, we should expect Alex to regress this year, since the difference maker Harbaugh won't be coaching him anymore. Bummer.....

Well, it will either prove one of two things. either, Jim is that good, or perhaps that with good coaching, players can reach their potential.

I don't know how that is going to work out. But, I mean, by all means, Mike Singletary, and Mike Nolan have been stellar head coaches after Alex Smith got them fired............

[Sandy Vagina]

LMAO.... All that really matters are his stats after Harbaugh? That's convenient...

But if that's the case, we should expect Alex to regress this year, since the difference maker Harbaugh won't be coaching him anymore. Bummer.....

It's called what-have-u-done-for-me-lately... which is all that matters. RT Anthony Davis gave up around 30 sacks in his first 2 years. Now, he is regarded as one of the better OTs in the game. So, do those first 2 years matter? now that he's good? think about it...

Success Rate (“Proportion of plays in which a player is directly involved that would typically be considered successful”)

Kaepernick: 48.9 (14th)

Smith: 51.1 (8th)

[Rausch]

What? lol. Okay Rausch. This is complete and utter bullshit. the 49ers other than the Giants game, from about weeks 4 till when alex got hurt in week 9, were DESTROYING PEOPLE.

How many of those games were their last 11 games?

Week 4. Jets 34-0 win
week 5 Buffalo 45-3 win
week 6 nyg loss 3-26
week 7 seattle 13-6, win
week 8 Arizona 24-3 Win alex smith goes for 18/19 defense gives up nothing.

those are the last 5 games alex smith started. What the **** are you talking about.

I don't give a fuck what Alex started. I didn't mention that.

The last 11 games (including playoffs.)

The SF defense got worse as the season went on (both Smith and Kap) and their HC was smart enough to make a change when he did.

[Discuss Thrower]

I remember when Herm trotted out this stupid line of bullshit about the Chiefs defense in 2006.

"The offense scored too fast!! The defense was bad because the offense was good!!"

The offense scoring makes it easier on a defense because it makes the other team more predictable.

Assuming Team Scores 24 points in both circumstances, is it better that they score those 24 points with 29 minutes or for 32 minutes in time of possession?

[Saccopoo]

The most important stat is winning, which is based on the point total at the end of the game. A fourth quarter comeback is nice, but to be in the situation where a fourth quarter comeback is necessary means that your team got outscored up to that point.

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/JonestownReport/Volume14/images/08-lolwut.jpg

[Fish]

It's called what-have-u-done-for-me-lately... which is all that matters. RT Anthony Davis gave up around 30 sacks in his first 2 years. Now, he is regarded as one of the better OTs in the game. So, do those first 2 years matter? now that he's good? think about it...

"What-have-u-done-for-me-lately" AKA "Throw-out-bad-stats-that-show-my-opinion-as-being-retarded"

[Mav]

This.

And once the HC realized his defense was $#itting its pants (see last 11 games for SF) He decided to make a move at QB. He had to.

He no longer had the defense to play Martyball. His secondary was puking pts and his front 7 wasn't getting pressure/turnovers.

He needed that extra offensive spark he hoped the Kap could provide...

No Rausch. This is what you said. They made the switch when Alex Smith got a concussion in the FIRST quarter of the rams game coming off their buy. Their defense hadn't given up a touchdown in two weeks and he decided to stay with Kaep. Now, while its true the team struggled in that Rams game, their defense the following week on Monday night football, destroyed the bears, Aldon Smith had 5.5 sacks, and all was great in the world. The next week after that, they went to new Orleans, and the defense demolished the Saints. I just told you, that the defense didn't actually start going to shit until the new England game, and that was only in the second half, and continued the rest of the season. That had zero to do with making the qb switch because that was already done 4 weeks earlier. I showed you about the games that alex smith had started because the defense was NUMBER FUCKING ONE IN THE NFL UP UNTIL THAT POINT, and didn't actually take a shit until WELL AFTER KAEP WAS THE QB.

I don't mind the Kaep is a better qb arguments, Kaep is Jims guy, Alex Smith sucks, but don't try to use the defense sucking, as justification as to why the qb switch was made. That's just dumb horse shit.

[Imon Yourside]

Steve Bono = Best QB in Chiefs history...

You...Betcha!

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[Mav]

"What-have-u-done-for-me-lately" AKA "Throw-out-bad-stats-that-show-my-opinion-as-being-retarded"

uh, or that two players got much better under great coaching? This is difficult to understand?

[Hammock Parties]

You don't seem to understand that one of the reasons why the 49er defense was so good is because ASmith kept them off the field. .

Again, he didn't do this.

49ers third down conversion percentage? Shit.

It's a complete myth that the 49ers defense benefited in ANY way from Alex Smith.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Assuming Team Scores 24 points in both circumstances, is it better that they score those 24 points with 29 minutes or for 32 minutes in time of possession?

It makes no material difference, and TOP is an antiquated concept anyway. You can run more plays in those 29 minutes and take more real time away than in those 32 minutes if the clock is consistently running.

[Sandy Vagina]

Again, he didn't do this.

49ers third down conversion percentage? Shit.

It's a complete myth that the 49ers defense benefited in ANY way from Alex Smith.

#1 quarterback on 1st down. Oh, but let's overlook that and focus on the particular numbers that strengthen your agenda. :p

[Hoover]

I'm pulling for Alex Smith, and I really don't understand the mindset of those who would rather just bitch about him being our QB.

1. Smith has talent.
2. Smith has shown that he can be a successful NFL QB with proper coaching.

I like the fact that he has a huge chip on his shoulder. Dude did everything that he was asked to do in SF and got benched. I would not be surprised if Smith ends up having a better year in KC than Kaep has in SF this year.

[Sandy Vagina]

I'm pulling for Alex Smith, and I really don't understand the mindset of those who would rather just bitch about him being our QB.

1. Smith has talent.
2. Smith has shown that he can be a successful NFL QB with proper coaching.

I like the fact that he has a huge chip on his shoulder. Dude did everything that he was asked to do in SF and got benched. I would not be surprised if Smith ends up having a better year in KC than Kaep has in SF this year.

:clap:

[Discuss Thrower]

It makes no material difference, and TOP is an antiquated concept anyway. You can run more plays in those 29 minutes and take more real time away than in those 32 minutes if the clock is consistently running.

Six of the top ten leaders in TOP made the playoffs in 2012... I don't agree it's totally antiquated given the Ravens won the SB and was 30th in the stat.

[Rausch]

No Rausch. This is what you said. They made the switch when Alex Smith got a concussion in the FIRST quarter of the rams game coming off their buy.

Which would be week 10, right?

I'd argue, and would correct myself, that the last 12 games started to show the weakness in the D.

Their pass D became suspect and their pass rush was feast or famine.

I just told you, that the defense didn't actually start going to shit until the new England game, and that was only in the second half, and continued the rest of the season. That had zero to do with making the qb switch...

It had everything to do with the QB move.

The defense had shown it was no longer dominant and Kap had proven enough to make the HC think he could spark points when there was no play out there.

This year the 49'ERS won't be a top 10 defense. The Squawks and Lambs will both schred them. And they play a 1st place schedule that puts them up vs. the best in the NFC...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Six of the top ten leaders in TOP made the playoffs in 2012... I don't agree it's totally antiquated given the Ravens won the SB and was 30th in the stat.

Question:

Were the Chiefs better in TOP with Vermeil or with Herm in 2006?

Team #1: Explosive offense, poor defense: TOP 32:08

Team #2: Ground and pound offense, mediocre defense: TOP 30:30

Your argument is wrong on two fronts:

#1) Having a ball control offense doesn't actually result in a huge TOP advantage
#2) TOP doesn't actually matter that much anyway. Plays run is more important.

[Fish]

uh, or that two players got much better under great coaching? This is difficult to understand?

Or a coach figured out how to work around their deficiencies. The QB was still averaging less than 200 yards a game during the time you're focusing on, so you can't really claim the player got much better. Your argument still hinges on Harbaugh...

[Discuss Thrower]

Question:

Were the Chiefs better in TOP with Vermeil or with Herm in 2006?

Team #1: Explosive offense, poor defense: TOP 32:08

Team #2: Ground and pound offense, mediocre defense: TOP 30:30

Your argument is wrong on two fronts:

#1) Having a ball control offense doesn't actually result in a huge TOP advantage
#2) TOP doesn't actually matter that much anyway. Plays run is more important.

My point is, and it pains me to say it, that Herm isn't necessarily wrong in that you can score "too fast" in a game. Plays run is a better indicator of success, but you still need to be able control the clock in situations.

[Sandy Vagina]

Or a coach figured out how to work around their deficiencies. The QB was still averaging less than 200 yards a game during the time you're focusing on, so you can't really claim the player got much better. Your argument still hinges on Harbaugh...

How can a person be so stupid as to focus on yardage like this? It's all about efficiency. Can you really not get that?

Take the SF/NYJ game, for instance. We obliterated the Jets on the ground... racked up 250 rushing yards and methodically owned them. Why? maybe the QB was reading the D and orchestrating the right calls?

... because Alex didn't need to chuck up the ball, he should be.. punished? I swear, you people have to be the product of inbreeding +/or cracked out parents.

[Fish]

How can a person be so stupid as to focus on yardage like this? It's all about efficiency. Can you really not get that?

Take the SF/NYJ game, for instance. We obliterated the Jets on the ground... racked up 250 rushing yards and methodically owned them. Why? maybe the QB was reading the D and orchestrating the right calls?

... because Alex didn't need to chuck up the ball, he should be.. punished? I swear, you people have to be the product of inbreeding +/or cracked out parents.

LMAO... It's all about whatever stats you need to cherry pick....

Hopefully we won't need to chuck the ball either. I'm sure Andy Reid's offense will focus on running....

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Why did their defense take a huge step back with Tattoo Boy behind center? That is a legit question. They weren't the same team at all when they changed QB's.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

My point is, and it pains me to say it, that Herm isn't necessarily wrong in that you can score "too fast" in a game. Plays run is a better indicator of success, but you still need to be able control the clock in situations.

I agree with you in the example of the four minute drill, but only there.

[Sandy Vagina]

LMAO... It's all about whatever stats you need to cherry pick....

Hopefully we won't need to chuck the ball either. I'm sure Andy Reid's offense will focus on running....

No. It's not about cherry-picking stats at all. My point is... regardless of STATS.. the thing that matters most is efficient play that leads to winning. It's this candy-ass football fantasy BS that has thoroughly poisoned some minds. Throw for 500 yards? Throw for 200 yards. Whatever... just play efficiently and win!

[Hammock Parties]

#1 quarterback on 1st down. Oh, but let's overlook that and focus on the particular numbers that strengthen your agenda. :p

You don't really need to look at particular numbers. How about yards and touchdowns? The two most important ones? Alex Smith...severely fucking lacking.

This isn't rocket science. Alex Smith is limited, and we're going to be disappointed when we face a team that can put up more than 24 points.

[Sandy Vagina]

You don't really need to look at particular numbers. How about yards and touchdowns? The two most important ones? Alex Smith...severely ****ing lacking.

This isn't rocket science. Alex Smith is limited, and we're going to be disappointed when we face a team that can put up more than 24 points.

This limited quarterback led his team to a special teams fumble away from the SB... on a team in their first season of new coaching... during a lockout offseason... while being a top 10 QB in efficiency.

Yards and TDs are the important numbers? Yeah... no... I'll go with WINS. I think that wins are what it's all about. Like Justin Smith says... "Stats are for losers."

( they are fun and we all like to manipulate them to fit an agenda... but when you scrape away all the BS... wins are all that matters )

[Fish]

No. It's not about cherry-picking stats at all. My point is... regardless of STATS.. the thing that matters most is efficient play that leads to winning. It's this candy-ass football fantasy BS that has thoroughly poisoned some minds. Throw for 500 yards? Throw for 200 yards. Whatever... just play efficiently and win!

Yeah.. My mind is poisoned for wanting a QB who can average >200yds passing in a game. All the time you hear Patriots fans and Packer fans and Saints fans complaining about all those passing yards, and yearning for a quaint little 200yd passing day and a 12-7 win. Candy ass passing stats are overrated...

[Sandy Vagina]

Yeah.. My mind is poisoned for wanting a QB who can average >200yds passing in a game. All the time you hear Patriots fans and Packer fans and Saints fans complaining about all those passing yards, and yearning for a quaint little 200yd passing day and a 12-7 win. Candy ass passing stats are overrated...

Yeah, ideally, great if the QB dazzles us with a aerial show. But really, would you rather a 500 yard passing game accompanied by a roller-coaster loss? or a 200 yard passing game accompanied by a methodical win?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The fantasy football mindset ruins every damn discussion about the game. Finishing in the top of the league in turnover differential is still the greatest factor in winning games. Hell they go to a SuperBowl without 2 fluke fumbled punt returns.

How is playing loose and winning 28-24 better than playing clean and winning 17-13?

[Fish]

Yeah, ideally, great if the QB dazzles us with a aerial show. But really, would you rather a 500 yard passing game accompanied by a roller-coaster loss? or a 200 yard passing game accompanied by a methodical win?

A win is certainly a win. But that does not mean we should be striving for winning in a less than ideal fashion. A 500 yard passing game gives infinitely higher chance of victory. The 49ers canned Smith because Kaep gives them a better chance at higher passing stats. It's as simple as that...

[el borracho]

Smith before Rogers? You guys are hilarious!

I would take Aaron Rogers one thousand times out of one thousand in any situation and I wouldn't even need one second to make the decision.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Smith before Rogers? You guys are hilarious!

I would take Aaron Rogers one thousand times out of one thousand in any situation and I wouldn't even need one second to make the decision.

Nobody is saying anything like that. It does appear that he is better when the game is on the line though than people will ever give him credit for...

[Setsuna]

Nobody is saying anything like that. It does appear that he is better when the game is on the line though than people will ever give him credit for...
LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO Get out.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO Get out.

You can't read apparently

[GordonGekko]

This limited quarterback led his team to a special teams fumble away from the SB... on a team in their first season of new coaching... during a lockout offseason... while being a top 10 QB in efficiency.

Yards and TDs are the important numbers? Yeah... no... I'll go with WINS. I think that wins are what it's all about. Like Justin Smith says... "Stats are for losers."

( they are fun and we all like to manipulate them to fit an agenda... but when you scrape away all the BS... wins are all that matters )

Stats are not for losers. An extreme example, two QB's, one for his career has 0 touchdowns, and 100 interceptions, and another has 100 td's and 0 int's. In your logic these stats do not matter whatsoever to speculate on future performance and you would be fine with either QB. Go **** yourself.

[Sandy Vagina]

A win is certainly a win. But that does not mean we should be striving for winning in a less than ideal fashion. A 500 yard passing game gives infinitely higher chance of victory. The 49ers canned Smith because Kaep gives them a better chance at higher passing stats. It's as simple as that...

As it turned out, Kaep was always going to be "the guy." Sure, we drafted him in rd 2, but Harbaugh scammed Alex really well with his BS. Kaepernick is clearly a more.. explosive weapon at QB.. I get that. That's not so much a knock on Alex as it is a compliment to Kaep.

I just find the razzle dazzle fans annoying. They don't study the game. They just get their rocks off on the big plays.. like stupid little kids with blank looks on their faces.. and well, that's okay... annoying but okay. There is no enforceable blueprint for fans.

I prefer the cerebral QBs that methodically drive the field. The chuck and duck backyard ballers make me feel like I'm watching the AFL.

[Hammock Parties]

This limited quarterback led his team to a special teams fumble away from the SB.

Will people stop saying this?

Alex Smith sucked ass in that game.

[Hammock Parties]

How is playing loose and winning 28-24 better than playing clean and winning 17-13?

http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-origin.barstoolu.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/04/CHIEFS-FANS.gif

[Sandy Vagina]

Will people stop saying this?

Alex Smith sucked ass in that game.

QBs have bad games... it happens. Crabtree and VD were focused on, and injuries put other scrub receivers on the field for us. Giants defense was on fire at that time. Eli also played a shit game, and was very lucky to not have thrown 2 stupid INTs. Shitty, ugly game by all. That still doesn't lessen my point about what Alex was able to do with a year 1 offense.

[GordonGekko]

I prefer the cerebral QBs that methodically drive the field. The chuck and duck backyard ballers make me feel like I'm watching the AFL.

I prefer QB's that can get the ball in the damn endzone with competence and regularity and has that killer instinct ala Joe Flacco in the SB. Someone who has the ability to make game changing plays. I'll take killer instinct and competence and a 12-4 record any day over your "methodically drive the field" 5-11.

[TheUte]

Will people stop saying this?

Alex Smith sucked ass in that game.

Compare the stats of AS to Eli's, they played basically the same game.

Does that mean Eli sucks also?

[Mav]

Again, he didn't do this.

49ers third down conversion percentage? Shit.

It's a complete myth that the 49ers defense benefited in ANY way from Alex Smith.

lol. Again where you fail. you are assuming that because the 49ers, regardless of qb, because Kaep struggled on 4th down as well, that the 49ers went 3 and out every possession. We both know that not to be true. Alex Smith over the past two years was number one on 1st down efficiency. You, are either very dumb, or in denial. I see it as somewhere in the middle. There is no way a guy who completes 70 percent of his passes, and has a total qbr, the espn version, not the regular rating, can be rated as high as he was if it is as simple as alex smith sucks on 3rd down, there for he sucks period. Even your bible tells you, that you are incorrect.

[Marcellus]

I prefer QB's that can get the ball in the damn endzone with competence and regularity and has that killer instinct ala Joe Flacco in the SB. Someone who has the ability to make game changing plays. I'll take killer instinct and competence and a 12-4 record any day over your "methodically drive the field" 5-11.

Hey Gekko you realize Flacco's playoff an SB run was an epic once in a lifetime streak, like record breaking? It aslo involved a ridiculous streak of busted coverage and WR circus catches.

He has no chance of coming close that again which is why Baltimore giving him the entire bank is hilarious.

[Marcellus]

Clay is getting housed. What up Clay?

[Mav]

Which would be week 10, right?

I'd argue, and would correct myself, that the last 12 games started to show the weakness in the D.

Their pass D became suspect and their pass rush was feast or famine.



It had everything to do with the QB move.

The defense had shown it was no longer dominant and Kap had proven enough to make the HC think he could spark points when there was no play out there.

This year the 49'ERS won't be a top 10 defense. The Squawks and Lambs will both schred them. And they play a 1st place schedule that puts them up vs. the best in the NFC...

It had absolutely nothing to do with the Defense. It had everything to do with taking the governor off of the Offense. That's where the truth is. The defense fell apart because of turnovers, and a coach calling off the dogs way too soon. And then Justin Smith got hurt, and no one picked up the slack. The qb move has zero bearing as to why the defense fell apart down the stretch other than the fact that if you factor in who, and where they played. At New England, at Seattle, Arizona, GB, At Atlanta, and super bowl vs the Ravens. They played some very VERY good offenses. They needed to be able to score when they needed to score. that's why the qb move was made. My whole inclination is that while the ability to score went up with Kaep, the defense got worse, and so did the run game. And the stats back up both of those points.

[Mav]

Or a coach figured out how to work around their deficiencies. The QB was still averaging less than 200 yards a game during the time you're focusing on, so you can't really claim the player got much better. Your argument still hinges on Harbaugh...

Well, yes, and yes. It hinges on harbaugh. Why? Because he is a guy who wants to run the ball. Did it at Stanford with the best qb in the country, still ran more with Kaep at the controls than they passed. Kaep only had one 300 yard game in his starts. That was the super bowl where he had to pass.

You do the math.

[Mav]

Yeah.. My mind is poisoned for wanting a QB who can average >200yds passing in a game. All the time you hear Patriots fans and Packer fans and Saints fans complaining about all those passing yards, and yearning for a quaint little 200yd passing day and a 12-7 win. Candy ass passing stats are overrated...

Good point. Especially since Tom Brady hasn't won a super bowl since 2005............Passing yards, clearly are everything.

[Fish]

As it turned out, Kaep was always going to be "the guy." Sure, we drafted him in rd 2, but Harbaugh scammed Alex really well with his BS. Kaepernick is clearly a more.. explosive weapon at QB.. I get that. That's not so much a knock on Alex as it is a compliment to Kaep.

I just find the razzle dazzle fans annoying. They don't study the game. They just get their rocks off on the big plays.. like stupid little kids with blank looks on their faces.. and well, that's okay... annoying but okay. There is no enforceable blueprint for fans.

I prefer the cerebral QBs that methodically drive the field. The chuck and duck backyard ballers make me feel like I'm watching the AFL.

What made Kaep "The guy" and Alex "Not the guy"? Alex was drafted higher.

It's nothing but talent, and the ability to put up superior passing stats. You simply can't argue anything else. You like to skirt around it and act like Alex was jilted or "Scammed". But the truth is that Kaep is much more talented. QB talent drives the game right now. Harbaugh knows this. You can prefer shitty QBs if you want, that's your prerogative. But it's also the reason you're not a head coach and Harbaugh just took his team to the SB with a guy he benched Smith for. Not sure what "Study" you're doing regarding the current NFL. But a head coach who just took his team to the SB completely disagrees with you, and he happens to be the only person who could get any results out of Alex Smith over the last 8 years. So the guy that knows Alex Smith better than anyone else, decided to replace him. Let that sink in....

[Hammock Parties]

Compare the stats of AS to Eli's, they played basically the same game.

Does that mean Eli sucks also?

Eli Manning has 25 career games of at least 300 yards.

Alex Smith has 3.

Die in a fire.

[Mav]

As it turned out, Kaep was always going to be "the guy." Sure, we drafted him in rd 2, but Harbaugh scammed Alex really well with his BS. Kaepernick is clearly a more.. explosive weapon at QB.. I get that. That's not so much a knock on Alex as it is a compliment to Kaep.

I just find the razzle dazzle fans annoying. They don't study the game. They just get their rocks off on the big plays.. like stupid little kids with blank looks on their faces.. and well, that's okay... annoying but okay. There is no enforceable blueprint for fans.

I prefer the cerebral QBs that methodically drive the field. The chuck and duck backyard ballers make me feel like I'm watching the AFL.

ehhhhhh. Now, I don't buy that he scammed Alex. Not at all actually. I do believe he believed in Kaep, but nothing Kaep did his first season, which was Alex Smiths first season, led anyone to believe that Kaep was going to be ready as soon as he was. Did Harbs handle the switching over poorly? I think so, but that part of me that thinks that, wants to think well how would Jim Harbaugh the player, of thought of the switch, you know, because you don't lose your job to injury. But, when I thought about it some more, Jim Harbaugh the coach, and actually Ray Ratto put it this way when Jim 'alledgedly" was going after peyton, that its jims job as the head coach, to find the best players, and if peyton manning calls you, and asks you to come see him, you don't say no. He said also that if Jim could find a better player than Patrick Willis, he would. That's what great coaches do.

They gave Kaep a trial run against the bears on Monday night. Had Kaep proven that he wasn't ready, they would of went back to Alex. They gave Kaep another chance against the saints. He was a little erratic because he fumbled the snap 4 times, but between the defense, and big plays, Kaep proved that he could handle it. Kaep, was Jims guy. Alex was his care taker. I think Alex knew that. But what hurt Alex was that by doing the right thing, admitting he had a concussion, Jim in that way, turned his back on him. Business, is cut throat. Loyalty only goes as far as it goes until someone better comes along, then that loyalty leaves.

They say it all the time. When a new regimen comes in, they want their own guy. Andy Reid, has said that Alex Smith is his guy. We will see if that leads to success.

This is after all, the first time since he was drafted someone has put this much faith in Alex Smith.

[Mav]

What made Kaep "The guy" and Alex "Not the guy"? Alex was drafted higher.

It's nothing but talent, and the ability to put up superior passing stats. You simply can't argue anything else. You like to skirt around it and act like Alex was jilted or "Scammed". But the truth is that Kaep is much more talented. QB talent drives the game right now. Harbaugh knows this. You can prefer shitty QBs if you want, that's your prerogative. But it's also the reason you're not a head coach and Harbaugh just took his team to the SB with a guy he benched Smith for. Not sure what "Study" you're doing regarding the current NFL. But a head coach who just took his team to the SB completely disagrees with you, and he happens to be the only person who could get any results out of Alex Smith over the last 8 years. So the guy that knows Alex Smith better than anyone else, decided to replace him. Let that sink in....

Im not sure if you are seriously asking, or trolling, but I am going to answer this anyways.

Alex Smith, was the only vet qb during the lockout, that Jim Harbaugh could get his playbook to. Kaep, was the young qb that Jim scouted, went to see, met with, learned about, and decided was his qb because he has what Jim has. A work ethic, and desire to compete, just like Jim. Alex doesn't have that. he is a hard worker, but he doesn't have that outward competitiveness like Jim, and Colin have. That is why Colin is Jims guy, and not alex smith.

Do I really need to talk about the arm, the athleticism, and that stuff? Cause I feel we have beaten that poor horse to oblivion.

[Mav]

Eli Manning has 25 career games of at least 300 yards.

Alex Smith has 3.

Die in a fire.

your dick that small that all you can think of his high passing yards?

Rhetorical question....the board knows the answer tiny.

[Fish]

Im not sure if you are seriously asking, or trolling, but I am going to answer this anyways.

Alex Smith, was the only vet qb during the lockout, that Jim Harbaugh could get his playbook to. Kaep, was the young qb that Jim scouted, went to see, met with, learned about, and decided was his qb because he has what Jim has. A work ethic, and desire to compete, just like Jim. Alex doesn't have that. he is a hard worker, but he doesn't have that outward competitiveness like Jim, and Colin have. That is why Colin is Jims guy, and not alex smith.

Do I really need to talk about the arm, the athleticism, and that stuff? Cause I feel we have beaten that poor horse to oblivion.

Is this post supposed to be support for Alex?

[Hammock Parties]

your dick that small that all you can think of his high passing yards?

Rhetorical question....the board knows the answer tiny.

The SB featured two QBs throwing for close to 300 yards last year.

The year before the winner had 296.

The year before the winner had 304.

The year before the winner had 288.

Alex Smith seems to be a fish out of water in this modern NFL if he ever wants to win a SB, don't you think?

[Marcellus]

your dick that small that all you can think of his high passing yards?

Rhetorical question....the board knows the answer tiny.

He can only quote numbers and make videos. That is literally all he does.

[Marcellus]

The SB featured two QBs throwing for close to 300 yards last year.

The year before the winner had 296.

The year before the winner had 304.

The year before the winner had 288.

Alex Smith seems to be a fish out of water in this modern NFL if he ever wants to win a SB, don't you think?

How many career 290 yard passing games does Smith have?

[Mav]

Is this post supposed to be support for Alex?

You asked why Colin was Jims guy, and not alex because alex was drafted higher. Its logical, and truthful as to why Colin Kaepernick is the qb of the sf 49ers and Alex Smith is not. Is that now what you wanted? Or you wanted some silly ass reason because im an alex guy, and I should be making an idiot out of myself trying to reason why alex should be the qb of the 49ers? I cant do that. I know that Alex is not as good as Colin. Or have the upside, and I also know how the NFL works. '

Ie, aaron Rodgers, was a Ted Thompson draft pick.

Tom Brady, was a bill belichick draft pick.

This is not the first time, that this game has been played.

[Hammock Parties]

How many career 290 yard passing games does Smith have?

Two!

Just an amazing QB.

[Marcellus]

The SB featured two QBs throwing for close to 300 yards last year.

The year before the winner had 296.

The year before the winner had 304.

The year before the winner had 288.

Alex Smith seems to be a fish out of water in this modern NFL if he ever wants to win a SB, don't you think?

How many career 290 yard passing games does Smith have?

How many at 276, how many at 274?

[Marcellus]

Two!

Just an amazing QB.


How many at 255?

[Hammock Parties]

You are missing the point.

Alex Smith has a low probability of throwing for high yardage in a game.

Therefore, he's going to have a hard time competing with these QBs who do. Like, the guys who win Super Bowls.

Guess he's awesome, though. Farts rainbows and shit. To the ship.

[Mav]

The SB featured two QBs throwing for close to 300 yards last year.

The year before the winner had 296.

The year before the winner had 304.

The year before the winner had 288.

Alex Smith seems to be a fish out of water in this modern NFL if he ever wants to win a SB, don't you think?

I guess we will find out wont we? I don't know the answer. I know that if you go by the regular season numbers, that the two TEAMS that played in the super bowl, were more run based teams, where neither team passed for 4000 yards, nor 30 tds. So.......

Peyton Manning, one and done in the playoffs. Tom Brady lost at home to the ravens, Drew Brees didn't make the playoffs, Eli Manning didn't make the playoffs, Matt Ryan lost in the Nfccg, aaron Rodgers lost in the divisional round, matt Stafford didn't make the playoffs.

Shrugs. I guess its like I have said. The team with the best defense, and run games, come the super bowl, usually win. The most complete team wins. I think its much more pertinent to have a strong running game, because that way you can control the game. you may be right.

[Hammock Parties]

I think its much more pertinent to have a strong running game.

http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-origin.barstoolu.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/04/CHIEFS-FANS.gif

[Mav]

You are missing the point.

Alex Smith has a low probability of throwing for high yardage in a game.

Therefore, he's going to have a hard time competing with these QBs who do. Like, the guys who win Super Bowls.

Guess he's awesome, though. Farts rainbows and shit. To the ship.

How much of that probability is it that he is usually at the bottom of the league in attempts?

Im asking, not picking fights.

[Valiant]

They fact everyone keeps reverting back to riding the defense and running game to make Alex's wins impressive should be the only evidence needed..

This team is going to win 6 games regardless of who is QBing. Sadly I do not see him adding any himself unless you consider 150yards and 1td during a win as impressive, who am I kidding, of course some of you will give him the credit.

The only thing great about smith is his contract was not extended.

[Fish]

I know that Alex is not as good as Colin. Or have the upside, and I also know how the NFL works.

OK, I can agree with this.

Let's just hope that Andy can manage/limit Smith as well as Harbaugh did.

[BlackHelicopters]

Can I choose Mark Castle?

[Hammock Parties]

How much of that probability is it that he is usually at the bottom of the league in attempts?


The more he passes, the more his team loses.

[TheUte]

Eli Manning has 25 career games of at least 300 yards.

Alex Smith has 3.

Die in a fire.

So the argument is ever changing for you? AS was a ST fumble away from the SB. You can bitch about 3rd down conversions, but that's weak.
What does every coach hate the most, TO's every one knows that, so just let the 3rd down conversion thing go.

AS is one the best QB's on 1st down and that's a fact look it up.

It really seems like you are just bitching to bitch. I know Cassel wasn't very good but that doesn't mean that every FA acquisition is doomed, Dude let it go.

So, let's clear up one thing are stats the only thing you care about?

Before he went out last season he was 6-2 with a rating of 104. Those are the only stats any one should care about.

[Marcellus]

The more he passes, the more his team loses.

Your tears are going to be so sweet.

[Mav]

They fact everyone keeps reverting back to riding the defense and running game to make Alex's wins impressive should be the only evidence needed..

This team is going to win 6 games regardless of who is QBing. Sadly I do not see him adding any himself unless you consider 150yards and 1td during a win as impressive, who am I kidding, of course some of you will give him the credit.

The only thing great about smith is his contract was not extended.

God, gee, as a 49er fan, I have never heard this before. just before the lockout ended and it was made known that Alex Smith was going to be Jim Harbaughs qb, "JIM YOU IDIOT, ALEX SMITH IS GOING TO GET YOU FIRED JUST LIKE HE DID NOLAN, AND SINGLETARY."

No one knew we had a dominant defense. Hell, Takeo Spikes, and Abruyo Franklin couldn't get out of San Francisco fast enough. They brought in other teams cast offs like Donte Whitner, and Carlos Rogers, resigned Ray McDonald to huge money. Drafted some guy no one expected in Aldon Smith, and traded up for Colin Kaepernick. People were so negative and out of their minds.

Two years later. No one is saying jack shit about how the 49ers built.

Lets compare. Two years later.

Andy Reid is brought in to the Chiefs. John Dorsey is brought in. They trade for Alex Smith. Pick up other teams cast offs like DeVito, Sean Smith, and Dunta Robinson. Also bring in a blitzing style d coordinator in Sutton, who much like Vic Fangio, was underwhelming the first time go round.

Sounds really fucking familiar.

Oh, and alex smith did average about 180, and the 49ers went 13-3.......

[Mav]

The more he passes, the more his team loses.

What if he doesn't have to pass though? And the passing game, and the playaction which you know, even if you wont admit it, is the strength of alex smiths game, and dare I say it, he runs it better than ANYONE in the league. At least stats say so....Why cant that work here?

[Mav]

OK, I can agree with this.

Let's just hope that Andy can manage/limit Smith as well as Harbaugh did.

That's the hope. At least I hope andy understands this.....

[ChiefsCountry]

Hey Gekko you realize Flacco's playoff an SB run was an epic once in a lifetime streak, like record breaking? It aslo involved a ridiculous streak of busted coverage and WR circus catches.

He has no chance of coming close that again which is why Baltimore giving him the entire bank is hilarious.

LMAO
You are a fucking idiot about Flacco then.

[Hammock Parties]

What if he doesn't have to pass though?

A revolution.

An NFL team that can win without passing.

I see the future now.

Alex Smith will lead this revolution.

The Chiefs will be pioneers.

[Mav]

A revolution.

An NFL team that can win without passing.

I see the future now.

Alex Smith will lead this revolution.

The Chiefs will be pioneers.

I sense your sarcasm. Look. If Alex Smith sees an opportunity to hand the ball off to Charles because the defense dictates that, hes going to do that. That to me, isn't a negative. If the chiefs are leading by 7 in the 4th quarter, and the chiefs can use the big uglies up front and Charles, and Davis to finish off teams in the 4th quarter, that's a beautiful thing. yes, if alex smith has to go toe to toe with Peyton Manning in the 4th quarter, or bring the Chiefs back, even I don't know how that is going to play out. I have seen it work. Philly in 2011, is a great example. I have seen it NOT work. Last year against the Vikings, and last year against the Giants. I don't think that many qbs strive though in those situations.

the reason I haven't commented on the aaron Rodgers vs alex smith come backs thing, aaron Rodgers team is hardly ever trailing.......

there is no need.

[OnTheWarpath15]

How comical is it that he has the exact same "comeback" W/L record as a certain QB who this place has spent years crucifying?

On a serious note, two things:

First, cdcox is spot on here - the way they go about defining a "comeback" is pretty fucked.

Second, there's a huge difference in playing like shit all day, having your defense keep you in a 10-7 for 58 minutes, and then scoring - versus scoring 35 points a game only to have your defense never get a stop.

I'll take the guy that can regularly put up points, because he gives you the best chance to win.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Is this post supposed to be support for Alex?

LMAO

[Chief Roundup]

That same defense that allowed ~30 pts/game in the playoffs under Kaep....

You don't seem to understand that one of the reasons why the 49er defense was so good is because ASmith kept them off the field. Kaep is a homerun hitter; ASmith is a surgical striker.

oh my

[OnTheWarpath15]

A revolution.

An NFL team that can win without passing.

I see the future now.

Alex Smith will lead this revolution.

The Chiefs will be pioneers.

Back To The Future.

Set the DeLorean to 1990, Doc. Go Martyball.

[KCDC]

As the months go by, Alex Smith seems to get better and better in the public eye, even though nothing has changed. Scraps of statistics are found that make him look great, just as statistics were found in April that make him look terrible.

As much as I dislike overpaying for mediocrity, Alex Smith is a mediocre starting QB, which is better than we had. We are so desperate for hope that we find ourselves evolving our thoughts into thinking he is better than that. It is possible that the new Reid offense with transform him into something he's not been in the past. It is more likely that he will continue to be Captain Checkdown and throw for just enough yards to keep the team in the game if the defense plays well.

I hope the first scenario comes true ... that AS is just a Pro Bowl passer waiting to be unlocked by Andy Reid, notwithstanding my dislike of the compensation we gave up for him. I am a Chiefs fan after all. Yet, I am leery of all the Kool-Aid being brewed as we become so desperate to have a decent QB that we start to see Alex in an unearned light. Let's see what he does in the Fall. Until then, I am a skeptic.

[Fish]

What if he doesn't have to pass though?

Yeah.... what if? What if the most important position on the field isn't asked to do his job, the job that makes it the most important position on the field?

LMAO What if guys? You never know.........

[Hammock Parties]

Back To The Future.

Set the DeLorean to 1990, Doc. Go Martyball.

Steve DeBerg career 300-yard games: 21

Alex Smith: 3

[Mav]

How comical is it that he has the exact same "comeback" W/L record as a certain QB who this place has spent years crucifying?

On a serious note, two things:

First, cdcox is spot on here - the way they go about defining a "comeback" is pretty ****ed.

Second, there's a huge difference in playing like shit all day, having your defense keep you in a 10-7 for 58 minutes, and then scoring - versus scoring 35 points a game only to have your defense never get a stop.

I'll take the guy that can regularly put up points, because he gives you the best chance to win.

Can I ask you a serious question. What elite qb has had the lack of talent at the receiving position as Alex Smith had in 2011 in San Francisco? Teams doubled Vernon Davis. Crabtree rarely gets separation. That's why Colin and Crabs worked so well, because colin doesn't give a shit. he will just throw it. but normal qbs, with normal arms, cant do what colin does. Doesn't anyone here think that there is some correlation between say, Aaron Rodgers, and all of his weapons, tom brady, and all of his weapons, drew brees, and the lack of weapons that the 49ers had?

Don't believe me?

Going into 2012, they signed Randy moss, Mario manningham, drafted Aj Jenkins.

How many receivers, and skill positions did the packers draft this year?

Or were they so fucking loaded that they told Donald driver to retire, and let Greg Jennings leave for NOTHING.


Now, I have admitted, that Alex Smith is nothing special, but, if qbs that are THAT great, have weapons like that, how could anyone expect Alex Smith to be elite, or even good, without stuff like that?

This year for the record. They drafted Patton, they traded for Boldin, drafted a tight end in the second round. So even they understand that an upgrade in weaponry is needed.

Am I making a LOGICAL point here, or is this all just, Alex Smith sucks. the end.

[Mav]

Yeah.... what if? What if the most important position on the field isn't asked to do his job, the job that makes it the most important position on the field?

LMAO What if guys? You never know.........

nah, you are missing the point. The whole reason the packers drafted two running backs this year is what?


The whole reason the lions are addressing their running back positions and olines is what?

The reasons that 3 of the top 4 picks in the draft were offensive linemen were what?

To get more balance. That's what. Even the top teams, all off season it was talked about here the reason they drafted two running backs, was they didn't want aaron Rodgers throwing as much as he was. They haven't had a 100 yard rusher in over two years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

This TOP argument is the biggest crock of shit ever.

The Chiefs, who won 2 games and didn't hold a lead in regulation until late in the season were a whopping 1:15 behind the Niners in TOP per game.

Yep, that's the difference folks. According to the AS Fan Club, the Niners defense was elite because they got an extra 1:15 of rest per game.

Thank God for Alex Smith.

[Fish]

nah, you are missing the point. The whole reason the packers drafted two running backs this year is what?


The whole reason the lions are addressing their running back positions and olines is what?


Because the best passers in the league are going to be asked to stop passing so much, and go from 400yds per game to 180yds per game?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Can I ask you a serious question. What elite qb has had the lack of talent at the receiving position as Alex Smith had in 2011 in San Francisco? Teams doubled Vernon Davis. Crabtree rarely gets separation. That's why Colin and Crabs worked so well, because colin doesn't give a shit. he will just throw it. but normal qbs, with normal arms, cant do what colin does. Doesn't anyone here think that there is some correlation between say, Aaron Rodgers, and all of his weapons, tom brady, and all of his weapons, drew brees, and the lack of weapons that the 49ers had?

Don't believe me?

Going into 2012, they signed Randy moss, Mario manningham, drafted Aj Jenkins.

How many receivers, and skill positions did the packers draft this year?

Or were they so fucking loaded that they told Donald driver to retire, and let Greg Jennings leave for NOTHING.


Now, I have admitted, that Alex Smith is nothing special, but, if qbs that are THAT great, have weapons like that, how could anyone expect Alex Smith to be elite, or even good, without stuff like that?

This year for the record. They drafted Patton, they traded for Boldin, drafted a tight end in the second round. So even they understand that an upgrade in weaponry is needed.

Am I making a LOGICAL point here, or is this all just, Alex Smith sucks. the end.

I have no idea why I'm wasting my time responding, but here goes.

First - Tom Brady. He won championships throwing to fucking scrubs.

Second - You're not helping your argument by saying he needs a shitload of help to be elite. He's not going to have any more help here than he did in SF. One elite pass catcher, one elite RB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Because the best passers in the league are going to be asked to stop passing so much, and go from 400yds per game to 180yds per game?

LMAO

[splatbass]

Oh, good. Another hate Alex Smith thread. We haven't had enough of these. :banghead:

Why don't we let him play a game before declaring him a failure?

[Mav]

This TOP argument is the biggest crock of shit ever.

The Chiefs, who won 2 games and didn't hold a lead in regulation until late in the season were a whopping 1:15 behind the Niners in TOP per game.

Yep, that's the difference folks. According to the AS Fan Club, the Niners defense was elite because they got an extra 1:15 of rest per game.

Thank God for Alex Smith.

lol. Thanks for proving my point. When Alex Smith was replaced. The 49ers had the number two defense in the league, the number two scoring defense in the league, led the league in turnover differential, had the number one rushing attack, led the league in starting field position, and opposing teams field position. None of those categories were even close at the end of the season to where they were. Thank you for proving your ineptness and how little you actually understand about football. The world appreciates your dumbness.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Oh, good. Another hate Alex Smith thread. We haven't had enough of these. :banghead:

Why don't we let him play a game before declaring him a failure?

People have short memories. The same thing was said in 2009 when we traded for a QB with a limited skillset.

You don't win championships in this era of the NFL unless you can pick up chunks of yards in the passing game.

Something like 19 attempts over 20 yards for an entire season tells me that Alex Smith can't do it, or his coaching staff thinks he can't do it.

Super Bowls aren't won anymore by QB's the play caller has to protect.

[OnTheWarpath15]

lol. Thanks for proving my point. When Alex Smith was replaced. The 49ers had the number two defense in the league, the number two scoring defense in the league, led the league in turnover differential, had the number one rushing attack, led the league in starting field position, and opposing teams field position. None of those categories were even close at the end of the season to where they were. Thank you for proving your ineptness and how little you actually understand about football. The world appreciates your dumbness.

Of course it had something to do with Alex Smith - couldn't have POSSIBLY been for any other reason.

Wow.

[Fish]

lol. Thanks for proving my point. When Alex Smith was replaced. The 49ers had the number two defense in the league, the number two scoring defense in the league, led the league in turnover differential, had the number one rushing attack, led the league in starting field position, and opposing teams field position. None of those categories were even close at the end of the season to where they were. Thank you for proving your ineptness and how little you actually understand about football. The world appreciates your dumbness.

All that, and they still replaced their QB? Doesn't that tell you something? If they're leading that many categories, and still felt it necessary to replace their QB, how the fuck can you sit here and defend the guy when everything else about the team was working so well and he still got benched?

[OnTheWarpath15]

lol. Thanks for proving my point. When Alex Smith was replaced. The 49ers had the number two defense in the league, the number two scoring defense in the league, led the league in turnover differential, had the number one rushing attack, led the league in starting field position, and opposing teams field position. None of those categories were even close at the end of the season to where they were. Thank you for proving your ineptness and how little you actually understand about football. The world appreciates your dumbness.

Of course it had something to do with Alex Smith - couldn't have POSSIBLY been for any other reason.

Wow.

Speaking of dumb, these are your own words:

that's a fallacy. Aldon Smith, himself was hurt. His shoulder was so messed up. He had surgery on it. Of course having J smith hurt doesn't help, but our front 7 was pretty darn banged up at the end of the season.

BUT IT WAS ALL BECAUSE ALEX SMITH WASN'T PLAYING!

[splatbass]

People have short memories. The same thing was said in 2009 when we traded for a QB with a limited skillset.

You don't win championships in this era of the NFL unless you can pick up chunks of yards in the passing game.

Something like 19 attempts over 20 yards for an entire season tells me that Alex Smith can't do it, or his coaching staff thinks he can't do it.

Super Bowls aren't won anymore by QB's the play caller has to protect.


It must be miserable to HATE the team you are a "fan" of, and always wish them the worst. You must be a blast to be around.

Alex Smith is nothing like Matt Cassel, and only a moron would compare them. Have a good day, moron.

[Fat Elvis]

How many of those games were their last 11 games?



I don't give a **** what Alex started. I didn't mention that.

The last 11 games (including playoffs.)

The SF defense got worse as the season went on (both Smith and Kap) and their HC was smart enough to make a change when he did.

Uh, you do realize that you just supported the idea that ASmith was a key reason why the 49er defense was so good, don't you? The last 11 games (including playoffs) were the games that Kaep started; ASmith went down in week 9. OK, so technically, ASmith started the first of those 11 lousy games, but got knocked out during that game, but the rest of that game and the rest of those other games were Kaep at QB.

To put it another way, when ASmith was QB and kept the offense on the field for a long period of time since he is "only" a game manager for the 49ers, the defense was awesome and bailed his ass out, but when Kaep was QB the defense had to stay out on the field and went to shit and Kaep bailed their ass out?

We're gonna have a legit top 10 if not top 5 defense this year and yet everyone is gonna complain that they bailed ASmith out without recognizing what he is doing for the team both offensively and defensively.

I can't believe how many people on this board are so myopic and can't see the bigger picture of what Reid and Dorsey are trying to do-- how they understand that the play of the QB affects ALL aspects of the game.

[Mav]

Speaking of dumb, these are your own words:



BUT IT WAS ALL BECAUSE ALEX SMITH WASN'T PLAYING!

What I have said about Alex Smith, and been laughed at, is Alex Smith, is great at not turning the ball over, and he is a master of pre snap adjustments. Something, if you watched the super bowl, KAEP WAS TERRIBLE AT, even then. Those things help. But yeah, I don't understand it either. Im completely wrong. Your turnovers go up, your defense is stuck on the field more, your defense loses their advantage of field position, and yeah, it has nothing to do with the change of offensive philosophies, or the qb. Nope. There are no reasons......

[Mav]

Uh, you do realize that you just supported the idea that ASmith was a key reason why the 49er defense was so good, don't you? The last 11 games (including playoffs) were the games that Kaep started; ASmith went down in week 9. OK, so technically, ASmith started the first of those 11 lousy games, but got knocked out during that game, but the rest of that game and the rest of those other games were Kaep at QB.

To put it another way, when ASmith was QB and kept the offense on the field for a long period of time since he is "only" a game manager for the 49ers, the defense was awesome and bailed his ass out, but when Kaep was QB the defense had to stay out on the field and went to shit and Kaep bailed their ass out?

We're gonna have a legit top 10 if not top 5 defense this year and yet everyone is gonna complain that they bailed ASmith out without recognizing what he is doing for the team both offensively and defensively.

I can't believe how many people on this board are so myopic and can't see the bigger picture of what Reid and Dorsey are trying to do-- how they understand that the play of the QB affects ALL aspects of the game.

my work is done here. Off for the day, see you guys later.

[O.city]

So if they were so much better as a team when Smith was on the field, why was Harbaugh, a supposed QB guru, trying to replace Smith basically at every turn?


Good grief. The pendulum has swung the other direction. The detractors take it to far and make his seem as if he's worse than he is, now the pro smith guys are doing the same thing in the opposite direction.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It must be miserable to HATE the team you are a "fan" of, and always wish them the worst. You must be a blast to be around.

Alex Smith is nothing like Matt Cassel, and only a moron would compare them. Have a good day, moron.

Where am I wishing that Alex Smith sucks? Where am I wishing the team the worst? Saying they are going to be mediocre and wishing they are going to be mediocre are two different things.

I don't hate the team. That's the fucking problem. I love the organization. I've lived and dies with them since I was 8 years old. I'm now 40. Hell, I followed them via fucking boxscores for years before ESPN became popular because I didn't live in KC.

That's why continually making the same mistakes over and over and over are so fucking frustrating.

And Alex Smith is nothing like Matt Cassel, except for damn near every statistical category over the course of their careers.

[O.city]

Smith was pretty damn good the last 2 years in SF, doing what they asked him to do.

Had we hired say Bill Cowher and brought Alex Smith in, I'd say people would be more excited in that he'd probably ask him to do about the same thing he was asked to do in SF.

But Andy Reid isn't either of those guys philosophically. If his history as a HC and offensive guy is any indicator, he's gonna have him throw it around alot. I think, personally, that he's got the skillset to do it and be good at it, but he hasn't shown that he really can do it in a game setting yet consistently.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Niners defense "fell apart" after Kaepernick took over, yet they were also dealing with injuries on the front 7.

Amazing how either of these are being used depending on the argument you want to support.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Smith was pretty damn good the last 2 years in SF, doing what they asked him to do.

Had we hired say Bill Cowher and brought Alex Smith in, I'd say people would be more excited in that he'd probably ask him to do about the same thing he was asked to do in SF.

But Andy Reid isn't either of those guys philosophically. If his history as a HC and offensive guy is any indicator, he's gonna have him throw it around alot. I think, personally, that he's got the skillset to do it and be good at it, but he hasn't shown that he really can do it in a game setting yet consistently.

That's part of the problem - they didn't ask him to do much.

19 attempts over 20 yards for a season. I would hope you're one of the most "efficient" QB's in the league when you're not asked to throw downfield.

You won't win a championship that way in today's NFL.

But for those that are just happy with winning more games than last year, it's football heaven.

[Hammock Parties]

This TOP argument is the biggest crock of shit ever.

The Chiefs, who won 2 games and didn't hold a lead in regulation until late in the season were a whopping 1:15 behind the Niners in TOP per game.

Yep, that's the difference folks. According to the AS Fan Club, the Niners defense was elite because they got an extra 1:15 of rest per game.

Thank God for Alex Smith.

This should end any future debate over Alex Smith: Defense Savior.

[O.city]

Although, had we just watched Alex Smith play a season with Romeo Crennell and Brian Dabol I don't know that we'd view him as much different than Matt Cassel.


Outside of about 4 or 5 guys, the QB and HC/OC/Philosophy have to match up for the QB to have success. Brady, Brees, Manning, etc could likely be successful in any system. But guys like Alex Smith, Schaub, Flacco have to be in the right system.


Hopefully, Reid's system matches up with Alex Smith.

[O.city]

That's part of the problem - they didn't ask him to do much.

19 attempts over 20 yards for a season. I would hope you're one of the most "efficient" QB's in the league when you're not asked to throw downfield.

You won't win a championship that way in today's NFL.

But for those that are just happy with winning more games than last year, it's football heaven.

I think it's harder to win championships that way, but I don't think you can't.


Brees and Brady most certainly take their shots down the field and can take the top off, but they make their living in that 5 to 20 yard range.

Alex Smith is going to have to show that he can throw it down the field more, but I don't think he has to be a Flacco type guy here.

[TheUte]

Oh, good. Another hate Alex Smith thread. We haven't had enough of these. :banghead:

Why don't we let him play a game before declaring him a failure?

This.

[O.city]

While I do think Smith is better than Cassel, if you put Cassel in the 9ers situation the last 2 years, would we think differently of him?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think it's harder to win championships that way, but I don't think you can't.

It's been a LONG time since a QB that can't stretch the field won a Super Bowl.


Brees and Brady most certainly take their shots down the field and can take the top off, but they make their living in that 5 to 20 yard range.

Alex Smith is going to have to show that he can throw it down the field more, but I don't think he has to be a Flacco type guy here.

Drew Brees - 71 attempts of 20 yards or more.

Tom Brady - 68 attempts of 20 yards or more.

HUGE difference.

[OnTheWarpath15]

While I do think Smith is better than Cassel, if you put Cassel in the 9ers situation the last 2 years, would we think differently of him?

Of course. You'd probably think of him similarly to his season playing for Brady.

Does that change the fact that he's a shitty QB?

It shouldn't, and it shouldn't with Smith either.

[O.city]

It's been a LONG time since a QB that can't stretch the field won a Super Bowl.




Drew Brees - 71 attempts of 20 yards or more.

Tom Brady - 68 attempts of 20 yards or more.

HUGE difference.

I'm not gonna sit here and say that he's either of those guys, obviously, he's not.

But he also wasn't asked to stretch the field. Whether it was because he can't I don't know.

I don't know the #'s, but what did Kaepernick do in this stat? I remember from watching Harbaugh at Stanford and at SF, and know his offense is pretty old school.

I also think Reid will certainly ask him to stretch the field more, so if his accuracy can hold up, it would be a good thing. But like you are saying, if we don't stretch the field and get big chunks, it's harder to beat good teams as you have to be more precise more times.

[O.city]

Of course. You'd probably think of him similarly to his season playing for Brady.

Does that change the fact that he's a shitty QB?

It shouldn't, and it shouldn't with Smith either.

No, it shouldn't and doesn't for me.


I was just pointing out that alot of times, if the guy isn't in the right system, things won't work.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, it shouldn't and doesn't for me.


I was just pointing out that alot of times, if the guy isn't in the right system, things won't work.

The point is that he NEEDS to be in the right system - again, to mask his limitations.

You might win regular season games like that, but you're not going to win championships with a limited QB.

[themanwithnoname]

So if they were so much better as a team when Smith was on the field, why was Harbaugh, a supposed QB guru, trying to replace Smith basically at every turn?


Good grief. The pendulum has swung the other direction. The detractors take it to far and make his seem as if he's worse than he is, now the pro smith guys are doing the same thing in the opposite direction.

Its been that way the entire time. Its been shithead browns and other poser ass 49er fans lauding Smith. Well that and a couple of people who seem to have more of an issue with people that wanted Geno than anything to do with Alex Smith. Funniest part is how these same dipshits will admit that Smith really isn't good but then they'll turn around and compare him to Brees, Rodgers, Luck and a bunch of other people that anyone with half a fucking functional brain could see don't really compare much at all.

[Valiant]

It must be miserable to HATE the team you are a "fan" of, and always wish them the worst. You must be a blast to be around.

Alex Smith is nothing like Matt Cassel, and only a moron would compare them. Have a good day, moron.

He is not wishing them the worse, he just has a brain and can see what is going on.

Some Chiefs fans are like trailer park dwellers after a tornado came though. " I don't know it happened.."

[O.city]

The point is that he NEEDS to be in the right system - again, to mask his limitations.

You might win regular season games like that, but you're not going to win championships with a limited QB.

True.


But I would argue that outside of about 4 or 5 guys, like I said, have to be in the right system.

Flacco just won a SB and theres no way he would win another one in a WCO.

[OnTheWarpath15]

True.


But I would argue that outside of about 4 or 5 guys, like I said, have to be in the right system.

Flacco just won a SB and theres no way he would win another one in a WCO.

Sorry, but I disagree here.

If you have the arm/ability/confidence to stretch the field and keep a defense honest, you can be successful in any system.

[O.city]

Sorry, but I disagree here.

If you have the arm/ability/confidence to stretch the field and keep a defense honest, you can be successful in any system.

I just don't see that as the case. You have to be able to stretch the field, I agree, but you can't think a guy like Stafford, or Flacco, could be as successful in a WC type precision offense with their meddling accuracy.

[themanwithnoname]

I'm not gonna sit here and say that he's either of those guys, obviously, he's not.

But he also wasn't asked to stretch the field. Whether it was because he can't I don't know.

I don't know the #'s, but what did Kaepernick do in this stat? I remember from watching Harbaugh at Stanford and at SF, and know his offense is pretty old school.

I also think Reid will certainly ask him to stretch the field more, so if his accuracy can hold up, it would be a good thing. But like you are saying, if we don't stretch the field and get big chunks, it's harder to beat good teams as you have to be more precise more times.

I don't know for sure what his numbers were, but Kaepernick was a huge upgrade in throwing deep, it took the team from having to be the middling Alex Smith "field goals and defense" way to them actually being able to press teams offensively. Funny thing is, they still protected him as you'd expect them to do with an inexperienced QB, but he was still such a huge upgrade that only dipshits would argue in Smith's favor. That's what's stupid, Smith got handily outplayed by a 2nd year guy that had never started an NFL game.

Most analysis of Smith mentions his awful deep throwing, citing his lack of arm strength. His percentage looks good because he goes deep about 1/10 of what most QBs do. Another thing is how "deep" is qualified. You see plenty of QBs that go 40-60 yards deep, I don't think Smith ever does that. Deep for him is like 25-35 yards.

[Hammock Parties]

What happens when we're down 10 in the fourth quarter with 8 minutes left to go?

Does anyone honestly expect us to win?

[Hammock Parties]

meddling accuracy.

LMAO

[Hammock Parties]

Now Stafford has middling accuracy?

People. Please. Just because some legend of Alex Smith being the most accurate QB since Jesus has risen up, do not belittle the QBs with strong arms.

http://i.imgur.com/cx1CoM0.jpg

[OnTheWarpath15]

What happens when we're down 10 in the fourth quarter with 8 minutes left to go?

Does anyone honestly expect us to win?

He has more 4th quarter comebacks than Aaron Rodgers, so yeah, I do.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Now Stafford has middling accuracy?

People. Please. Just because some legend of Alex Smith being the most accurate QB since Jesus has risen up, do not belittle the QBs with strong arms.

http://i.imgur.com/cx1CoM0.jpg

About this chart:

Smith is 21st on this list in attempts, and 17th in completions.

Hard not to have great "efficiency" numbers when you don't throw as often, or don't throw downfield anywhere near as often.

[Discuss Thrower]

He has more 4th quarter comebacks than Aaron Rodgers, so yeah, I do.

Pisses me off that the link died... I wanted to look at the strength of victory thing that headed the article.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Pisses me off that the link died... I wanted to look at the strength of victory thing that headed the article.

Link didn't die. It was missing the colon after HTTP.


http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/best-and-worst-quarterback-records-the-clutch-adjusted-for-strength-schedule/18941/

[Hammock Parties]

Hard not to have great "efficiency" numbers when you don't throw as often, or don't throw downfield anywhere near as often.

17 completions of 20 yards or better in 2011.

Cassel had 14 in 2010, so at least we're getting an upgrade.

[Hammock Parties]

Cassel had 18 in 2009. LMAO

[OnTheWarpath15]

17 completions of 20 yards or better in 2011.

Cassel had 14 in 2010, so at least we're getting an upgrade.

Air Coryell, here we come.

[splatbass]

Where am I wishing that Alex Smith sucks? Where am I wishing the team the worst? Saying they are going to be mediocre and wishing they are going to be mediocre are two different things.

I don't hate the team. That's the ****ing problem. I love the organization. I've lived and dies with them since I was 8 years old. I'm now 40.

Yeah, and I'm 51 and have been a Chiefs fan since before you were born. So? The point is that you expect the worst. You wallow in your misery, and can't let yourself be happy about anything concerning the Chiefs. Last season everyone here wanted the entire front office and coaching staff fired and an offensive minded HC that ran an aggressive offense hired. They also wanted the turnover machines that were Cassel and Quinn gone. YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS BITCH.

You will never be satisfied with anything the Chiefs do. You enjoy the hate too much.

[O.city]

How dare he expect the worse. The worse never ever happens to the chiefs right?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, and I'm 51 and have been a Chiefs fan since before you were born. So? The point is that you expect the worst. You wallow in your misery, and can't let yourself be happy about anything concerning the Chiefs. Last season everyone here wanted the entire front office and coaching staff fired and an offensive minded HC that ran an aggressive offense hired. They also wanted the turnover machines that were Cassel and Quinn gone. YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS BITCH.

You will never be satisfied with anything the Chiefs do. You enjoy the hate too much.

Sigh. Dimestore psychologist, arguing the poster and not his posts.

If I expected the worst, I'd be predicting another 2-14 debacle.

There's no doubt in my mind this team will be mediocre, and just mediocre enough to satiate the fanbase - who are more interested in their tailgates not being ruined than seeing an organization take the risks necessary to be great.

Sorry that I'm not satisfied with mediocre, or being "mildly competent", as one writer put it.

[Hammock Parties]

The point is that you expect the worst.

Expecting Alex Smith to play like Alex Smith is expecting the worst?

I'd say that's expecting reality.

I expect one completion of 20 yards or better every week this season.

It'll be a hoot!

[Hammock Parties]

Expecting the worst would be expecting Alex Smith to break something, and Chase Daniels to be our starting QB.

Talk about a nightmare.

I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic here. I'm thinking Alex can stay healthy this year.

[DeezNutz]

I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic here. I'm thinking Alex can stay healthy this year.

Why would you possibly expect this? It's not his history.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Expecting Alex Smith to play like Alex Smith is expecting the worst?

I'd say that's expecting reality.

I expect one completion of 20 yards or better every week this season.

It'll be a hoot!

Expecting Alex Smith to be Alex Smith is frowned upon in this establishment.

Expecting him to be something he's never been is the only acceptable option to some.

But to those folks, just winning 6-10 games in the regular season is a victory.

[splatbass]

Sigh. Dimestore psychologist, arguing the poster and not his posts.

If I expected the worst, I'd be predicting another 2-14 debacle.

There's no doubt in my mind this team will be mediocre, and just mediocre enough to satiate the fanbase - who are more interested in their tailgates not being ruined than seeing an organization take the risks necessary to be great.

Sorry that I'm not satisfied with mediocre, or being "mildly competent", as one writer put it.

The fact that you "have no doubt" in no way makes it true. And you have to walk before you can run. Mediocre would be a good first year coming off a 2-14 season. But you will continue to have unrealistic expectations so that you can continue with your hate.

[Discuss Thrower]

Expecting the worst would be expecting Alex Smith to break something, and Chase Daniels to be our starting QB.

Talk about a nightmare.

I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic here. I'm thinking Alex can stay healthy this year.

I still don't understand signing Daniel.

[Hammock Parties]

Why would you possibly expect this? It's not his history.

I'm a homer. Everybody knows it.

[DeezNutz]

The fact that you "have no doubt" in no way makes it true. And you have to walk before you can run. Mediocre would be a good first year coming off a 2-14 season. But you will continue to have unrealistic expectations so that you can continue with your hate.

The organization agrees with you, which is why 8-8 is the threshold for the 49ers to get our second-round pick.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The fact that you "have no doubt" in no way makes it true. And you have to walk before you can run. Mediocre would be a good first year coming off a 2-14 season. But you will continue to have unrealistic expectations so that you can continue with your hate.

Like I was saying about the fanbase accepting mediocrity...

If winning the Super Bowl is an unrealistic expectation, why the fuck are you a fan?

The goal is to win a championship, yes?

This team made a bunch of moves designed to "win now" instead of build for the future. Sorry that I expect them to do so.

[Hammock Parties]

Mediocre would be a good first year coming off a 2-14 season.

Going 6-10 because Alex shits the bed several times should be met with harsh criticism.

This guy is supposed to be a stabilizing force on this team.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The organization agrees with you, which is why 8-8 is the threshold for the 49ers to get our second-round pick.

http://www.whatdafaqshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/boom1.jpg

[DeezNutz]

With six Pro-Bowlers and a QB "who can hit the ground running," not to mention a last-place schedule, the Chiefs should make the playoffs in '13.

This is a realistic expectation to define success.

[O.city]

I expect more than mediocrity this year as apparently does the organization. So mediocrity would be a fail this year

[Discuss Thrower]

With six Pro-Bowlers and a QB "who can hit the ground running," not to mention a last-place schedule, the Chiefs should make the playoffs in '13.

This is a realistic expectation to define success.

The last place schedule thing only means the Chiefs pay the Browns and Bills though..

[DeezNutz]

The last place schedule thing only means the Chiefs pay the Browns and Bills though..

2 sure wins, right?

[OnTheWarpath15]

2 sure wins, right?

Signed,

Every other year we've played the Browns and/or Bills.

[Discuss Thrower]

2 sure wins, right?

Not the Bills game because it's at Ralph Wilson where KC hasn't won since the 90s IIRC.

[splatbass]

The organization agrees with you, which is why 8-8 is the threshold for the 49ers to get our second-round pick.

Bullshit. The threshold was set at that because that is what the 49ers wanted for him.

If you think it is realistic to expect the Chiefs to do better than 8-8 the first season after going 2-14 and being the worst team in the NFL then you are either delusional or you want to set expectations unrealistically high so that it will prove you "right" when they fail. I believe with some of you guys it is the latter.

Realistically, 8-8 would be a very good season with a new coach following a 2-14 season.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bullshit. The threshold was set at that because that is what the 49ers wanted for him.

If you think it is realistic to expect the Chiefs to do better than 8-8 the first season after going 2-14 and being the worst team in the NFL then you are either delusional or you want to set expectations unrealistically high so that it will prove you "right" when they fail. I believe with some of you guys it is the latter.

Realistically, 8-8 would be a very good season with a new coach following a 2-14 season.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7643546624/h6E2B2AFD/

[splatbass]

With six Pro-Bowlers and a QB "who can hit the ground running," not to mention a last-place schedule, the Chiefs should make the playoffs in '13.

This is a realistic expectation to define success.

Bullshit. As I said, you set the expectations unrealistically high so that you can claim you were right when they fail. I wouldn't be proud of that if I were you.

[Discuss Thrower]

Bullshit. The threshold was set at that because that is what the 49ers wanted for him.

If you think it is realistic to expect the Chiefs to do better than 8-8 the first season after going 2-14 and being the worst team in the NFL then you are either delusional or you want to set expectations unrealistically high so that it will prove you "right" when they fail. I believe with some of you guys it is the latter.

Realistically, 8-8 would be a very good season with a new coach following a 2-14 season.

My argument against the whole "six more wins than last year" thing is that KC got to 7-9 with two coaches, Cassel, Palko and without the help of its most important offensive player, starting SS, and its no.1 tight end in 2011.

Is this 2013 squad better or worse than 2011's ?

[DeezNutz]

Bullshit. The threshold was set at that because that is what the 49ers wanted for him.

If you think it is realistic to expect the Chiefs to do better than 8-8 the first season after going 2-14 and being the worst team in the NFL then you are either delusional or you want to set expectations unrealistically high so that it will prove you "right" when they fail. I believe with some of you guys it is the latter.

Realistically, 8-8 would be a very good season with a new coach following a 2-14 season.

Defensively, there are, allegedly, a lot of pieces on this team. Two pretty decent pass rushers. A line comprised of high picks, and a defensive backfield that should be above average, on paper.

Offensively, the Chiefs have a proven QB (can't always add quotation marks), one of the best RBs in the league, and (much to CP's chagrin) an outstanding WR in Bowe. Oh, and the fucking line adds the #1 overall pick.

This should be a playoff team. They were Piolied into last season, which therefore shouldn't serve as a valid point of comparison.

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.whatdafaqshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/boom1.jpg

Allow me to edit.

http://i.imgur.com/eNe9Yqf.jpg

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bullshit. As I said, you set the expectations unrealistically high so that you can claim you were right when they fail. I wouldn't be proud of that if I were you.

Why is that expectation unrealistically high?

You fucking people go on-and-on-and-fucking-on about how goddamn talented this team is, how great Alex Smith is, how easy the schedule is, and how much better the coaching/decision making is going to be.

So why in the blue fuck is making the playoffs an unrealistic expectation?

You can't have it both fucking ways.

[DeezNutz]

We cannot judge Alex Smith until ____.

Line? Check.
Coaching? Check.
WR? Check.
RB? Check.
Defense? Check.

But, fuck it, let's not judge this team. It's an "evaluation year." Happens frequently in the midwest. Regional preference.

[Hammock Parties]

You all know damn well what is going to happen.

We will miss the playoffs by 2-3 games and it will be blamed on the defense for giving up an ungodly number of points, like 24.

[splatbass]

Why is that expectation unrealistically high?

You ****ing people go on-and-on-and-****ing-on about how goddamn talented this team is, how great Alex Smith is, how easy the schedule is, and how much better the coaching/decision making is going to be.

So why in the blue **** is making the playoffs an unrealistic expectation?

You can't have it both ****ing ways.

It is unrealistic to expect them to make the playoffs this year. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that. You just want to set expectations that high so you can say you were right when they fail. Good luck with that.

[splatbass]

We cannot judge Alex Smith until ____.

Line? Check.
Coaching? Check.
WR? Check.
RB? Check.
Defense? Check.

But, **** it, let's not judge this team. It's an "evaluation year." Happens frequently in the midwest. Regional preference.

The TRUTH is that we can't judge Alex Smith UNTIL HE HAS PLAYED SOME GAMES. I think he will be ok, you think he will suck, but both of those are just opinions, not facts.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It is unrealistic to expect them to make the playoffs this year. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that. You just want to set expectations that high so you can say you were right when they fail. Good luck with that.

Again, why is it unrealistic?

You guys all say they have a ton of talent, an upgrade at QB, the best coaching staff in the league and say they are playing an easy schedule.

If you really believe all of that, why is it unrealistic to expect a playoff game?

[DeezNutz]

The TRUTH is that we can't judge Alex Smith UNTIL HE HAS PLAYED SOME GAMES. I think he will be ok, you think he will suck, but both of those are just opinions, not facts.

He has played games, plenty of them. I don't think he's going to suck, but I just don't see him as a franchise-level guy.

Furthermore, I don't think he's going to play all 16 games this year.

[Easy 6]

I dont see why a wildcard should be out of the question, the talent is there, atleast on paper, we're stocked with highly experienced coaches and we now have a QB who atleast belongs in the NFL, a guy who's proven he can win with a solid team.

The time is right for a breakout, every team in the NFL eventually does it no matter how bad they've been... with all of the time thats passed since we've been any good, i'd say the law of averages is on our side.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

LMAO
You are a fucking idiot about Flacco then.

Why? That performance wad a HUGE outlier in his career

[DonTellMeShowMe]

Two!

Just an amazing QB.

It's not all about yards, ask Matthew Stafford

[splatbass]

Again, why is it unrealistic?

You guys all say they have a ton of talent, an upgrade at QB, the best coaching staff in the league and say they are playing an easy schedule.

If you really believe all of that, why is it unrealistic to expect a playoff game?

Who is this "you guys"? You are talking to me, not CP in general. This is the kind of hyperbole you live for. Fairness? Not so much.

[Marcellus]

I think immediate success is the expectation. I am fine with that. Playoffs at a minimum to be a successful season for anyone but like anything else it depends on what happens.

Alex Smith could have a great year and we miss the playoffs.

Fact is not one snap has been played, that's what frustrates me.

Andy Reid has not coached 1 game with Alex Smith who has not played one snap with these players.

Stop bitching you ****ing weaping vaginas.

[splatbass]

He has played games, plenty of them.

He has played exactly NONE on this team with these coaches. Not even pre-season. NONE. Not one snap.

[DonTellMeShowMe]

http://cdn2.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/KAEPERNICK-GATORADE.gif

[keg in kc]

Why is that expectation unrealistically high?

You ****ing people go on-and-on-and-****ing-on about how goddamn talented this team is, how great Alex Smith is, how easy the schedule is, and how much better the coaching/decision making is going to be.

So why in the blue **** is making the playoffs an unrealistic expectation?

You can't have it both ****ing ways.It's the same mindset that has people on one hand saying Alex Smith is going to be great, but on the other hand saying Andy Reid won't have him throw the ball 35-times a game. Because, of course, that's expecting too much of a hand-picked quarterback playing for a pass-happy coach.

They're basically arguing both sides without even realizing it just so they can feel good about whatever happens. Alex Smith is awesome, so if he plays well, you can say "see I told you he was awesome", and if things don't go well, you can say "see, I told you to limit your expecations".

Whereas I would say if you have faith in the guy, then why not go all the way? This is a talented roster with some legitimate star calibre players that was basically crushed by historically bad quarterback play not just last year, but for several years. Anything remotely adequate (and I think everyone would agree that Alex Smith should at least be adequate) and this team should see a dramatic turnaround. This isn't anything new. We've seen other teams do it. Why shouldn't the Chiefs do in 2013 what the Colts did in 2012?

[Hammock Parties]

Alex Smith could have a great year and we miss the playoffs.


And as long as his TD>15, his INT<12, completion percentage> 60 and his QB rating > 85, everyone here will say he played well, the rest of the team needs to pick up the slack.

[Marcellus]

It's the same mindset that has people on one hand saying Alex Smith is going to be great, but on the other hand saying Andy Reid won't have him throw the ball 35-times a game. Because, of course, that's expecting too much of a hand-picked quarterback playing for a pass-happy coach.

They're basically arguing both sides without even realizing it just so they can feel good about whatever happens. Alex Smith is awesome, so if he plays well, you can say "see I told you he was awesome", and if things don't go well, you can say "see, I told you to limit your expecations".

Whereas I would say if you have faith in the guy, then why not go all the way?

I think they did what they did to win now, so I expect to win now. Thats not being a homer or an Alex Smith homer, its looking at what we should be able to do with better players and a coaching staff that is truly the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to competence.

[Marcellus]

And as long as his TD>15, his INT<12, completion percentage> 60 and his QB rating > 85, everyone here will say he played well, the rest of the team needs to pick up the slack.

You are just making shit up and building straw men. One of your strengths.

[Hammock Parties]

You are just making shit up and building straw men. One of your strengths.

Literally every Alex Smith homer has been defending his shitty stats with the 49ers for months now.

[keg in kc]

I think they did what they did to win now, so I expect to win now. Thats not being a homer or an Alex Smith homer, its looking at what we should be able to do with better players and a coaching staff that is truly the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to competence.You won't have seen my edit to that last post, but it's basically saying the same thing:

This is a talented roster with some legitimate star calibre players that was basically crushed by historically bad quarterback play not just last year, but for several years. Anything remotely adequate (and I think everyone would agree that Alex Smith should at least be adequate) and this team should see a dramatic turnaround. This isn't anything new. We've seen other teams do it. Why shouldn't the Chiefs do in 2013 what the Colts did in 2012?I neglected to even mention the coaching, as well, which I think was a big part of last year's record.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Given the moves they made...8-8 or less would be a fucking disaster. Every move they made is selling us win now.

[DeezNutz]

He has played exactly NONE on this team with these coaches. Not even pre-season. NONE. Not one snap.

He's basically a rookie.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who is this "you guys"? You are talking to me, not CP in general. This is the kind of hyperbole you live for. Fairness? Not so much.

You keep avoiding the question. Why?

There's nothing hyperbolic about it.

Are you claiming the team isn't talented? That Alex Smith isn't an upgrade? That the schedule isn't easy? That the coaching staff isn't an upgrade?

Why is making the playoffs an unrealistic expectation?

[Marcellus]

He's basically a rookie.

Weak sauce, you barely post any more Deez, I expect more from you.

Making a comment that in no way reflects the spirit of the post is too easy and way below your intelligence.

[DeezNutz]

You keep avoiding the question. Why?

There's nothing hyperbolic about it.

Are you claiming the team isn't talented? That Alex Smith isn't an upgrade? That the schedule isn't easy? That the coaching staff isn't an upgrade?

Why is making the playoffs an unrealistic expectation?

It's an unrealistic expectation and you're just setting up the impossible to bitch.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's the same mindset that has people on one hand saying Alex Smith is going to be great, but on the other hand saying Andy Reid won't have him throw the ball 35-times a game. Because, of course, that's expecting too much of a hand-picked quarterback playing for a pass-happy coach.

They're basically arguing both sides without even realizing it just so they can feel good about whatever happens. Alex Smith is awesome, so if he plays well, you can say "see I told you he was awesome", and if things don't go well, you can say "see, I told you to limit your expecations".

Whereas I would say if you have faith in the guy, then why not go all the way? This is a talented roster with some legitimate star calibre players that was basically crushed by historically bad quarterback play not just last year, but for several years. Anything remotely adequate (and I think everyone would agree that Alex Smith should at least be adequate) and this team should see a dramatic turnaround. This isn't anything new. We've seen other teams do it. Why shouldn't the Chiefs do in 2013 what the Colts did in 2012?

Exactly. You can't have it both ways.

If you really believe in the talent on the team, really believe in Alex Smith and really believe in the coaching, there no reason not to expect a playoff appearance.

[DeezNutz]

Weak sauce, you barely post any more Deez, I expect more from you.

Making a comment that in no way reflects the spirit of the post is too easy and way below your intelligence.

No...I have to poke fun at the comment.

A veteran coach acquired a veteran QB and now we have to act like everything is a big unknown? How can we possibly extrapolate any conclusions based on the bodies of work from these two men?

It's a flawed approach from the start, and it certainly reminds me of how Cassel was shielded by the red-coated masses when he first came to KC.

[Valiant]

You are just making shit up and building straw men. One of your strengths.

He has a point.. If he goes off for 18tds 12ints and 2900 yards and the Chiefs win 7 games quite a few fans will think that is amazing..

[Marcellus]

He has a point.. If he goes off for 18tds 12ints and 2900 yards and the Chiefs win 7 games quite a few fans will think that is amazing..

Are we talking about quite a few fans or CP in general? I was lead to believe this discussion involved opinion here.

[Hammock Parties]

He has a point.. If he goes off for 18tds 12ints and 2900 yards and the Chiefs win 7 games quite a few fans will think that is amazing..

Need to get rid of Bowe and get a real WR if we want to see Alex put up numbers.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He has a point.. If he goes off for 18tds 12ints and 2900 yards and the Chiefs win 7 games quite a few fans will think that is amazing..

Exactly right.

Because we saw the same thing happen in 2010 with Cassel, after dinking and dunking some of the worst teams in the league to death.

[Marcellus]

No...I have to poke fun at the comment.

A veteran coach acquired a veteran QB and now we have to act like everything is a big unknown? How can we possibly extrapolate any conclusions based on the bodies of work from these two men?

It's a flawed approach from the start, and it certainly reminds me of how Cassel was shielded by the red-coated masses when he first came to KC.

I was actually naive back then and learned a lot from the
Cassel/Pioli/Crennel trifecta of suck.

Still dont hate Smith and think we win now.

How people react to these moves doesn't change my personal opinion.

I'm sure it goes both ways.

[keg in kc]

I'd be extremely disappointed with anything less than 3500 yards and 25 TDs from Alex Smith.

Is that unrealistic?

[Marcellus]

Exactly right.

Because we saw the same thing happen in 2010 with Cassel, after dinking and dunking some of the worst teams in the league to death.

As I asked who's opinion are we discussing the general fan opinion or CP?

If we are talking CP then I call bullshit, big pile of it.

[Marcellus]

I'd be extremely disappointed with anything less than 3500 yards and 25 TDs from Alex Smith.

Is that unrealistic?

No but its not 5,000 & 40 /Clay

[Hammock Parties]

No but its not 5,000 & 40 /Clay

No it's not.

And we will lose when we face that type of QB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd be extremely disappointed with anything less than 3500 yards and 25 TDs from Alex Smith.

Is that unrealistic?

For what we paid for him, and the implication of paying that much (ability to draft a franchise QB later) no, that's not at all unrealistic.

Then again, even Cassel dinked and dunked himself to those numbers, and we saw what happened.

With what we paid, we should get 4,000/30 and the ability to keep the defense honest with downfield passing.

Based on his history, don't see it happening.

[OnTheWarpath15]

As I asked who's opinion are we discussing the general fan opinion or CP?

If we are talking CP then I call bullshit, big pile of it.

Call bullshit all you want - this place was full homer that season.

Christ, even I thought they had a chance to beat Baltimore.

(And I still think they would have if they would have kept running the ball instead of inexplicably start slinging it all over)

[tecumseh]

For what we paid for him, and the implication of paying that much (ability to draft a franchise QB later) no, that's not at all unrealistic.

Then again, even Cassel dinked and dunked himself to those numbers, and we saw what happened.

With what we paid, we should get 4,000/30 and the ability to keep the defense honest with downfield passing.

Based on his history, don't see it happening.

Based on what I've been reading about AR, the Chiefs offense will be looking down field more often. This I like and I'm willing to give Smith the benefit of the doubt regardless of his history.

[DeezNutz]

I was actually naive back then and learned a lot from the
Cassel/Pioli/Crennel trifecta of suck.

Still dont hate Smith and think we win now.

How people react to these moves doesn't change my personal opinion.

I'm sure it goes both ways.

Yeah, and I'm not one to start personally insulting someone for having an opinion different from my own. However, I think it's amazing how some try to treat established QBs like rookies, ostensibly making it impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything.

Alex Smith is 29 years old. He should be in the fucking prime of his career right now. It's go time for him and the Chiefs, and the fact that playoffs (playoffs!) are considered "lofty" expectations just goes to show how fucking traumatized our fanbase has become.

Has anyone even raised the possibility of contending for a...wait for it...championship? I mean, for fuck, that sounds so ridiculous that it isn't funny. Sadly.

[Hammock Parties]

Alex Smith is 29 years old. He should be in the fucking prime of his career right now. It's go time for him and the Chiefs.

According to PFF, we have a top 10 QB.

He should be able to overcome anything, including a bad defense.

LET'S ROLL!

[tecumseh]

Yeah, and I'm not one to start personally insulting someone for having an opinion different from my own. However, I think it's amazing how some try to treat established QBs like rookies, ostensibly making it impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything.

Alex Smith is 29 years old. He should be in the ****ing prime of his career right now. It's go time for him and the Chiefs, and the fact that playoffs (playoffs!) are considered "lofty" expectations just goes to show how ****ing traumatized our fanbase has become.

Has anyone even raised the possibility of contending for a...wait for it...championship? I mean, for ****, that sounds so ridiculous that it isn't funny. Sadly.

I agree. I want the Chiefs to come out ripping heads. 6-0 going into the Texans game. Bang Bang.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, and I'm not one to start personally insulting someone for having an opinion different from my own. However, I think it's amazing how some try to treat established QBs like rookies, ostensibly making it impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything.

Alex Smith is 29 years old. He should be in the fucking prime of his career right now. It's go time for him and the Chiefs, and the fact that playoffs (playoffs!) are considered "lofty" expectations just goes to show how fucking traumatized our fanbase has become.

Has anyone even raised the possibility of contending for a...wait for it...championship? I mean, for fuck, that sounds so ridiculous that it isn't funny. Sadly.

The possibility off a championship with AS hasn't been raised because no one, even the AS homers think he's capable of winning one.

He'll, look at this thread. There are people that think playoffs alone are asking too much.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I agree. I want the Chiefs to come out ripping heads. 6-0 going into the Texans game. Bang Bang.

I want to tittyfuck Kate Upton.

[DeezNutz]

The possibility off a championship with AS hasn't been raised because no one, even the AS homers think he's capable of winning one.


I think this is ultimately true, which is why the acquisition at the price the Chiefs paid was asinine.

I would have been great with acquiring AS. Perfect with it. But I wouldn't have paid more than a 4th-round pick. Period.

And now people will argue that this compensation package wouldn't have finalized the deal. OK. And?

[tecumseh]

I want to titty**** Kate Upton.

Get in line.

[Fat Elvis]

Again, why is it unrealistic?

You guys all say they have a ton of talent, an upgrade at QB, the best coaching staff in the league and say they are playing an easy schedule.

If you really believe all of that, why is it unrealistic to expect a playoff game?

I don't think it is unrealistic. Anything less than a 10 win season is a bust as far as I'm concerned. The only caveat to that idea is if we have another season of injuries like we did a couple of years ago.

I think the ASmith signing is a pretty good signing, and I think we should be in the playoffs this year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think this is ultimately true, which is why the acquisition at the price the Chiefs paid was asinine.

I would have been great with acquiring AS. Perfect with it. But I wouldn't have paid more than a 4th-round pick. Period.

And now people will argue that this compensation package wouldn't have finalized the deal. OK. And?

This. Exactly this.

Someone else overpays for him, and we move on to the next stopgap option, which likely wouldn't have required a draft pick as compensation, much less two R2 picks.

[keg in kc]

With what we paid, we should get 4,000/30 and the ability to keep the defense honest with downfield passing.

Based on his history, don't see it happening.I agree.

Those are the numbers we should expect given the price. They aren't even particularly notable numbers, 4k and 30 TD. But I don't, however, believe them to be realistic for Alex Smith. Which is why I've thought all along that we overpaid.

But he will, I hope, find himself in a situation where he can exceed 3200 yards and 18 TD for the first time in his career. Personally, I'll be disappointed with anything under 3500 and 25, given the price and the system. The playoffs are I think a realistic goal if we can get a Rich Gannon-esque performance out of him, looking at the team, the staff, the division and the schedule.

[Fat Elvis]

I think this is ultimately true, which is why the acquisition at the price the Chiefs paid was asinine.

I would have been great with acquiring AS. Perfect with it. But I wouldn't have paid more than a 4th-round pick. Period.

And now people will argue that this compensation package wouldn't have finalized the deal. OK. And?


That is what is asinine. Expecting to get a starting NFL QB for a 4th round pick. Oh, but lets trade our punter for a first round pick--he's a probowler. /CP

Guess what? We could of picked up ASmith in 2012 for free.

He had a good year; his price went up.

If I were the 49er's I wouldn't have given him up for anything less than the Chiefs offered. One hit to Kaep and they are screwed. Royally.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That is what is asinine. Expecting to get a starting NFL QB for a 4th round pick. Oh, but lets trade our punter for a first round pick--he's a probowler. /CP

Guess what? We could of picked up ASmith in 2012 for free.

He had a good year; his price went up.

If I were the 49er's I wouldn't have given him up for anything less than the Chiefs offered. One hit to Kaep and they are screwed. Royally.

"Starting" QB is a pretty loose descriptor.

Kevin Kolb is a starting QB.

Blaine Gabbert is a starting QB.

Matt Cassel was a starting QB.

You get the point.

Deez is right. He's a stopgap, and we desperately overpaid.

[keg in kc]

Nobody in the league would have paid what we did. We got completely taken. Which is an unfortunate trend with this franchise and the quarterback position, now going through three different front offices.

[Fat Elvis]

I agree.

Those are the numbers we should expect given the price. They aren't even particularly notable numbers, 4k and 30 TD. But I don't, however, believe them to be realistic for Alex Smith. Which is why I've thought all along that we overpaid.

But he will, I hope, find himself in a situation where he can exceed 3200 yards and 18 TD for the first time in his career. Personally, I'll be disappointed with anything under 3500 and 25, given the price and the system. The playoffs are I think a realistic goal if we can get a Rich Gannon-esque performance out of him, looking at the team, the staff, the division and the schedule.

Outside of Brees, how many 2nd round QBs put up those types of numbers? None. Not even Kaep (extrapolating for a full year).

3500 and 25 is pretty realistic given the guy is a vet. Anything more than that and we will have gotten a steal.

[Fat Elvis]

"Starting" QB is a pretty loose descriptor.

Kevin Kolb is a starting QB.

Blaine Gabbert is a starting QB.

Matt Cassel was a starting QB.

You get the point.

Deez is right. He's a stopgap, and we desperately overpaid.



So now ASmith is Kolb, Gabbert and Cassel?

Hate to break it to you, but Reid and Dorsey are NFC guys; ASmith is their guy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Nobody in the league would have paid what we did. We got completely taken. Which is an unfortunate trend with this franchise and the quarterback position, now going through three different front offices.

What? Everyone wanted AS, that's why we had to pay so much.

[Marcellus]

Yeah, and I'm not one to start personally insulting someone for having an opinion different from my own. However, I think it's amazing how some try to treat established QBs like rookies, ostensibly making it impossible to hold anyone accountable for anything.

Alex Smith is 29 years old. He should be in the ****ing prime of his career right now. It's go time for him and the Chiefs, and the fact that playoffs (playoffs!) are considered "lofty" expectations just goes to show how ****ing traumatized our fanbase has become.

Has anyone even raised the possibility of contending for a...wait for it...championship? I mean, for ****, that sounds so ridiculous that it isn't funny. Sadly.

I think we can win a SB with Smith and have stated it.

One thing I also believe and have stated is that this FO will w continue to develop the QB position if it doesn't go that way.

People are too hung up connecting this regime to past failures. Fact is we are only on #3 since 1983 and yea 2 of them were retarded. Doesn't make the 3rd so dumb.

[keg in kc]

Outside of Brees, how many 2nd round QBs put up those types of numbers? None. Not even Kaep (extrapolating for a full year).

3500 and 25 is pretty realistic given the guy is a vet. Anything more than that and we will have gotten a steal.He's not a 2nd round quarterback. He's a first round quarterback. At least that's what I've been told over and over for months. And he'll likely cost us two seconds, not one. It's never going to be a steal unless the guy ends up in the hall of fame.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So now ASmith is Kolb, Gabbert and Cassel?

Didn't say that.

Point is, "starting" doesn't mean much.

There are plenty of shitty QB's who start.

Doesn't make them worth two R2 picks, especially when they are of limited ability.

[keg in kc]

What? Everyone wanted AS, that's why we had to pay so much.Yeah, we won the bidding war!

[Marcellus]

He's not a 2nd round quarterback. He's a first round quarterback. At least that's what I've been told over and over for months. And he'll likely cost us two seconds, not one. It's never going to be a steal unless the guy ends up in the hall of fame.

You can flip it however you want depending on your agenda.

He was 1st overall so if you want to argue QB's winning the SB and the 1st round stat there is that.

If you want to argue the traded QB stat there is that.

If you want to argue he only cost us a couple 2nd you can argue that.

He is the perfect argument waiting to happen.

[OnTheWarpath15]

3,500/25 is a steal in return for two R2 picks.

Holy Christ.

[RunKC]

Clay how do you "know" Alex Smith can't succeed in our offense with our coach?
He had very good stats in a conservative offense in SF under Harbaugh. Him doing the same thing, but more often doesn't appear to be a problem considering he succeeded at it in SF when he threw more than 30 passes a game.

[Marcellus]

Yeah, we won the bidding war!

Truth is nobody knows who was interested.

Do you really think everything that goes on is reported?

I bet there is tons of shit that goes on that's not discussed in media because teams don't want it out there.

No way we know everything or else the NFL is one dumb business. And we know that's not the case.

[keg in kc]

3,500/25 is a steal in return for two R2 picks.

Holy Christ.I guess that's what you get when a team drafts as poorly as we have for so many years (decades). Draft picks have no value to the fans. That's what leads to gifs of people cheering RTs at #1.

[keg in kc]

Truth is nobody knows who was interested.

Do you really think everything that goes on is reported?

I bet there is tons of shit that goes on that's not discussed in media because teams don't want it out there.

No way we know everything or else the NFL is one dumb business. And we know that's not the case.Actually you generally do hear about interest like that after the fact. It's more unusual not to.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You can flip it however you want depending on your agenda.

He was 1st overall so if you want to argue QB's winning the SB and the 1st round stat there is that.

If you want to argue the traded QB stat there is that.

If you want to argue he only cost us a couple 2nd you can argue that.

He is the perfect argument waiting to happen.

How many teams are willing to trade elite or near-elite 1.1 QB's?

Answer: Only the teams that realize the guy isn't elite or near-elite, and isn't capable of winning when it matters.

The Packers wouldn't have traded Rodgers for multiple R1 picks.

And you can say the same about 10-15 teams in the league.

Why? You don't trade elite QB's, pro QB's you think might become elite.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Clay how do you "know" Alex Smith can't succeed in our offense with our coach?
He had very good stats in a conservative offense in SF under Harbaugh. Him doing the same thing, but more often doesn't appear to be a problem considering he succeeded at it in SF when he threw more than 30 passes a game.

Define success.

To some, that's a paltry 3,500/25.

[Marcellus]

How many teams are willing to trade elite or near-elite 1.1 QB's?

Answer: Only the teams that realize the guy isn't elite or near-elite, and isn't capable of winning when it matters.

The Packers wouldn't have traded Rodgers for multiple R1 picks.

And you can say the same about 10-15 teams in the league.

Why? You don't trade elite QB's, pro QB's you think might become elite.

The Packers, Steelers, Chargers, Rams, Chiefs, Panthers, Buccaneers, all of the top of my head let QBs go that took teams to the SB after they left.

Not saying Smith is elite and I never have just think he is good enough.

Also while on the elite subject, don't think there was an elite QB in this draft and history will prove that.
Now what?

If the standard is elite who is going to be elite from the 2013 draft? I want to know who not just hear they should have tried.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Packers, Steelers, Chargers, Rams, Chiefs, Panthers, Buccaneers, all of the top of my head let QBs go that took teams to the SB after they left.

Not saying Smith is elite and I never have just think he is good enough.

Also while on the elite subject, don't think there was an elite QB in this draft and history will prove that.
Now what?

Regarding your last line...

If so, why pay so much for a stopgap?

Alex Smith is perfect for a franchise that is perfectly content with mediocrity.

But so are a bunch of other guys.

If you're going to pay that much, you better be getting someone who can put a team on his back occasionally and who is capable of winning real games, not just regular season games.

But they made a bunch of "win now" moves, so I expect them to win right now. No excuses. Playoffs at minimum or bust.

[Marcellus]

Regarding your last line...

If so, why pay so much for a stopgap?

Alex Smith is perfect for a franchise that is perfectly content with mediocrity.

But so are a bunch of other guys.

If you're going to pay that much, you better be getting someone who can put a team on his back occasionally and who is capable of winning real games, not just regular season games.

But they made a bunch of "win now" moves, so I expect them to win right now. No excuses. Playoffs at minimum or bust.

I never said he was a stop gap you did. And the fact is I really dont care they burned an extra 2nd over the deal. Thats not a franchise killer. Stop acting like it.

If you have the answer to what they should have done and "elite" is the standard tell me what they should have done.

You seem to be passionate about the subject surely you have an opinion on who they should have drafted and feel they would will be "elite". Lets see, put your name on it.