MLB prepared to ban Alex Rodriguez for life

[Rams Fan]

Commissioner Bud Selig is prepared to levy a lifetime suspension on New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, while suspending about eight others before the weekend, two people with knowledge of the negotiations told USA TODAY Sports.

The people were unauthorized to speak publicly because no announcement is expected until Thursday or Friday.

Rodriguez, according to his attorney, David Cornwell, will appeal any suspension, regardless of the severity. The other players are expected to receive 50-game bans, and most are considering accepting the discipline without appealing, according to one of the people.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/07/31/alex-rodriguez-suspended-lifetime-suspension-biogenesis/2606319/

[blaise]

The lifetime ban is a threat to effectively ban him from the Hall of Fame. He doesn't have that many games in him anyway, but the HOF rules state that a banned player isn't eligible. So, this is MLB saying, "You're not even getting to a HOF vote unless you admit you took roids and go away."
You could say he wouldn't get in anyway, but there's a chance that once Bonds gets in (which he will eventually) the rest of the roid guys could get in, too. So he probably thinks he could still get in the HOF.
My belief anyway.

[BlackHelicopters]

Note to self: Don't associate with dirtbags.

[Canofbier]

Is there a way for him to not play but still occupy space on the Yankees payroll? That would make me happy, I think.

[Rams Fan]

The lifetime ban is a threat to effectively ban him from the Hall of Fame. He doesn't have that many games in him anyway, but the HOF rules state that a banned player isn't eligible. So, this is MLB saying, "You're not even getting to a HOF vote unless you admit you took roids and go away."
You could say he wouldn't get in anyway, but there's a chance that once Bonds gets in (which he will eventually) the rest of the roid guys could get in, too. So he probably thinks he could still get in the HOF.
My belief anyway.

If he is banned for life, he won't go in until Rose's ban is withdrawn, IMO.

[Eleazar]

It will be a shame if McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, or any of these other guys who ruined sports' greatest record EVER get in, even by the veterans' committee.

The league used to say Pete Rose had "tarnished the game", but what the juicers did was much worse, IMO.

[Rasputin]

It will be a shame if McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, or any of these other guys who ruined sports' greatest record EVER get in, even by the veterans' committee.

The league used to say Pete Rose had "tarnished the game", but what the juicers did was much worse, IMO.


I think Pete Rose should be in the HOF.

[Saul Good]

It will be a shame if McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, or any of these other guys who ruined sports' greatest record EVER get in, even by the veterans' committee.

The league used to say Pete Rose had "tarnished the game", but what the juicers did was much worse, IMO.

Trying to win is not worse than trying to lose...not even close.

[Frazod]

I think Pete Rose should be in the HOF.

Certainly before Bonds, Sosa or McGwire.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'd be fine with putting them all in, save for Braun, who ruined a guy's life to cover his own ass.

[stonedstooge]

A-Dud ever test positive for PED's? If not, how the hell can they ban him?

[HonestChieffan]

Sorry Alex.....Bye.

[Frazod]

The cynic in me is thinking its the Yankmees that are pushing his lifetime ban behind the scenes, just so they can get out from under his bloated, ridiculous contract.

The only thing I'd like about him beating the rap is continuing to fuck them over.

[Rasputin]

Certainly before Bonds, Sosa or McGwire.


Honest question to MLB. How many players bet on baseball just don't get caught?

[pr_capone]

A-Dud ever test positive for PED's? If not, how the hell can they ban him?

In February 2009, Selena Roberts and David Epstein of Sports Illustrated reported that Rodriguez had tested positive for two anabolic steroids, testosterone and Primobolan, during his 2003 season playing for the Texas Rangers, the same season in which he captured his first American League Most Valuable Player award, broke 300 career home runs (hitting 47 that year),[92] and earned one of his ten Silver Slugger Awards.

He was one of the reasons why MLB instituted mandatory drug testing to begin with. His getting popped in 03 didn't count against him though... but his continual lying and impeding investigations is what they are gonna hit him for. PED's will be secondary. There have been a few articles stating that by banning him via the collective barganing agreement, the suspension will be immediate. By going through the PED agreement, A-Rod would be able to appeal the decision and be allowed to continue playing while the appeals process took place.

[sd4chiefs]

SAWEET! :thumb:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/31/news/companies/a-rod-pay/?hpt=hp_t2


Embattled New York Yankees' third baseman Alex Rodriguez could still be paid $61 million, even if he never plays another Major League Baseball game.

The suspension could be for violating rules on using performance enhancing drugs (PEDs). Or it might focus on allegations he tried to thwart MLB's investigation of Biogenesis, the Miami clinic that allegedly supplied him and other baseball stars with PEDs.

While some reports say A-Rod could face a lifetime suspension that could cost him all future earnings, other reports suggest he could be suspended for the rest of this year and all of next season. That year-plus suspension would cost him about $9 million in salary for this year and $25 million he is owed for next year, since players are not paid during suspensions

[stonedstooge]

In February 2009, Selena Roberts and David Epstein of Sports Illustrated reported that Rodriguez had tested positive for two anabolic steroids, testosterone and Primobolan, during his 2003 season playing for the Texas Rangers, the same season in which he captured his first American League Most Valuable Player award, broke 300 career home runs (hitting 47 that year),[92] and earned one of his ten Silver Slugger Awards.

Thanks. I didn't know that

[J Diddy]

It will be a shame if McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, or any of these other guys who ruined sports' greatest record EVER get in, even by the veterans' committee.

The league used to say Pete Rose had "tarnished the game", but what the juicers did was much worse, IMO.

The strikes tarnished the game. The juicers saved it, imo.

[Simply Red]

This ninja is crazzzy!

[BigRedChief]

If he is banned for life, he won't go in until Rose's ban is withdrawn, IMO.None of the steroid suspected users are going into the HOF anytime soon. McGuire/A-Rod/Bonds/Clemons may not get in until after their death.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The cynic in me is thinking its the Yankmees that are pushing his lifetime ban behind the scenes, just so they can get out from under his bloated, ridiculous contract.

The only thing I'd like about him beating the rap is continuing to fuck them over.

That's exactly what is happening. They are also pushing to get him to quit due to injury so that they can collect on an insurance policy.

[pr_capone]

None of the steroid suspected users are going into the HOF anytime soon. McGuire/A-Rod/Bonds/Clemons may not get in until after their death.

They should all be given post career lifetime bans effectively banning them from the HOF and their records stricken. Just me though...

[BigRedChief]

The strikes tarnished the game. The juicers saved it, imo.There is much truth in that statement. McGuire/Sosa was a national story. People who didn't like baseball were tracking their HR race.

It definitely brought baseball back. No one had a problem with it when it was saving baseball from the strike. Kind of hypocritical.

[LoneWolf]

None of the steroid suspected users are going into the HOF anytime soon. McGuire/A-Rod/Bonds/Clemons may not get in until after their death.

Not one of them should get in the HOF ever. Not because they used steroids, but because they lied about it when questioned and some still continue to deny that they were users.

[pr_capone]

There is much truth in that statement. McGuire/Sosa was a national story. People who didn't like baseball were tracking their HR race.

It definitely brought baseball back. No one had a problem with it when it was saving baseball from the strike. Kind of hypocritical.

I was a kid when the home run chase happened. I had no idea they were juicing. You may not feel betrayed but I certainly do.

The people who were running the game... if they knew? Yeah, hypocritical as hell. That said, perhaps by now they grew a concience... or that fat stack of dollar bills is keeping their pillow dry at night. Nothing for me to give a shit about.

I want a clean game. As clean as possible anyway.

[tk13]

Not one of them should get in the HOF ever. Not because they used steroids, but because they lied about it when questioned and some still continue to deny that they were users.

McGwire did admit to using them a few years ago.

[WhitiE]

They should all be given post career lifetime bans effectively banning them from the HOF and their records stricken. Just me though...

I don't not agree.

[BigRedChief]

They should all be given post career lifetime bans effectively banning them from the HOF and their records stricken. Just me though...How can you ban them for life when they never tested positive? Convicted in court? Most of their careers it wasn't against the rules?

As I said it seems hypocritical but I'd be okay with lifetime bans for everyone.

You really want to clean up the game? Void their guaranteed contracts if they test positive.

[Rams Fan]

Not one of them should get in the HOF ever. Not because they used steroids, but because they lied about it when questioned and some still continue to deny that they were users.

McGwire never denied it publicly, A-Rod admitted to doing so a few years ago. Clemens/Bonds are the ones that haven't admitted to it.

[Frazod]

McGwire at least strikes me as a decent person. Sosa had a bad rep around town as being a prima donna douche, but at least he made it look good for the fans. Clemons and Bonds, however, were just complete fucking pricks.

However, being a fucking prick isn't grounds for not making the HOF (kick the first guy inducted out if that ever happens), so if you don't admit one of them, you don't admit any of them.

And I'm good with that.

[LoneWolf]

McGwire did admit to using them a few years ago.

After years of denial and outright lying. Go watch video of that ass hat at the congressional hearing and tell me that is someone you want in the HOF.

[BigRedChief]

I was a kid when the home run chase happened. I had no idea they were juicing. You may not feel betrayed but I certainly do.

The people who were running the game... if they knew? Yeah, hypocritical as hell. The public wern't hypocrites. They didn't know. It was baseball, the coaches, players etc.

No way no one is going to convince me that everyone in the late 90's - early 2000's was surprised by PED usage.

[BigRedChief]

McGwire at least strikes me as a decent person. Sosa had a bad rep around town as being a prima donna douche, but at least he made it look good for the fans. Clemons and Bonds, however, were just complete fucking pricks.

However, being a fucking prick isn't grounds for not making the HOF Yep, Ty Cobb has to be one of the worse human beings to ever be a baseball "star". Racist as hell too.

[tk13]

McGwire at least strikes me as a decent person. Sosa had a bad rep around town as being a prima donna douche, but at least he made it look good for the fans. Clemons and Bonds, however, were just complete ****ing pricks.

However, being a ****ing prick isn't grounds for not making the HOF (kick the first guy inducted out if that ever happens), so if you don't admit one of them, you don't admit any of them.

And I'm good with that.

Who they are aside... McGwire never even needed to take them. He legitimately had the talent to hit 600+ homers. I've never seen another person hit baseballs like he could hit a baseball.

[vailpass]

Trying to win is not worse than trying to lose...not even close.

X1000

[LoneWolf]

McGwire never denied it publicly, A-Rod admitted to doing so a few years ago. Clemens/Bonds are the ones that haven't admitted to it.

McGwire just didn't want to talk about the past. Yes, he's a stand-up guy. :rolleyes: If Canseco doesn't write that book, McGwire would still be denying it to this day.

A-Rod admitted that he "inadvertently" used because he took something his cousin said was OK. Now it turns out (if reports are true) that he was actively recruiting others to biogenesis.

[Frazod]

Who they are aside... McGwire never even needed to take them. He legitimately had the talent to hit 600+ homers. I've never seen another person hit baseballs like he could hit a baseball.

He sure paid the price for it in the end, though. And so did the Cardinals.

I'll never forget his epic suck against the Diamondbacks in his last postseason series. He was an absolute, guaranteed out, and it seemed like every time he was up there were runners on base with two outs. Strike one, strike two, strike three, inning over. Fucker. And of course, LaRussa wouldn't bench him.

I have no love for the guy. The Cardinals didn't win dick until after he left.

[kcxiv]

The lifetime ban is a threat to effectively ban him from the Hall of Fame. He doesn't have that many games in him anyway, but the HOF rules state that a banned player isn't eligible. So, this is MLB saying, "You're not even getting to a HOF vote unless you admit you took roids and go away."
You could say he wouldn't get in anyway, but there's a chance that once Bonds gets in (which he will eventually) the rest of the roid guys could get in, too. So he probably thinks he could still get in the HOF.
My belief anyway.

its an attempt to prevent him from collection the 150 million he has left on his contract. You know dman well the Yankee's are pushing for that.

He's not gonna get into the hall anyways if he doesnt get banned. Look at Bonds, he's not sniffing it.

[kcxiv]

Who they are aside... McGwire never even needed to take them. He legitimately had the talent to hit 600+ homers. I've never seen another person hit baseballs like he could hit a baseball.

Mark took them to heal from his back injuries that kept getting reinjured. The steroids healed him.

There is this doctor in L.A that has a radio show on espn la on the weekends. I listen at times, he said, its legal for player to shoot coritisone that damages body tissues, but steriods are illegal (even for healing) and they help heal and dont damage the body when taken correctly.

[HonestChieffan]

Yep, Ty Cobb has to be one of the worse human beings to ever be a baseball "star". Racist as hell too.

Oh for fuck sake. Give it a rest.

[Brock]

After years of denial and outright lying. Go watch video of that ass hat at the congressional hearing and tell me that is someone you want in the HOF.

He deserves to go in. Lying to a bunch of pompous blowhard liars who were meddling in something that was none of their business doesn't bother me.

[Psyko Tek]

The strikes tarnished the game. The juicers saved it, imo.

if you gotta cheat to make the game interesting...
you know, maybe it's time to end the game

[LoneWolf]

He deserves to go in. Lying to a bunch of pompous blowhard liars who were meddling in something that was none of their business doesn't bother me.

Do his stats before he was obviously using say he deserves to be in the HOF? I would say no.

I don't give a shit who he lied to. He lied and that alone should keep him out of the hall.

[HonestChieffan]

After years of denial and outright lying. Go watch video of that ass hat at the congressional hearing and tell me that is someone you want in the HOF.

Amen. These asshats deserve shit. Cheat...you are gone. Done. Rose, McGwire, Arod and any of the rest. Cheats in life or sports are still cheats.

[Frazod]

He deserves to go in. Lying to a bunch of pompous blowhard liars who were meddling in something that was none of their business doesn't bother me.

Excellent point.

[Brock]

Do his stats before he was obviously using say he deserves to be in the HOF? I would say no.

I don't give a shit who he lied to. He lied and that alone should keep him out of the hall.

I don't care about baseball players lying.

[Saul Good]

Should we ban everyone who ever threw a spitball? Every catcher who ever framed a pitch? Everyone who scuffed/pine tarred a ball? Everyone who ever stole a sign? Everyone who trapped a ball and pretended they caught it? Read some books about the early days of MLB. People skipped bases when umps weren't watching. A catcher snuck a motherfucking peeled potato onto the field, threw it into left field when a runner stle third, and then tagged him out with the actual ball when he ran home. Many of those players are in the HOF. Who gives a fuck if people take vitamins, supplements, or steroids?

This is stupid. Baseball is a game. The objective is to throw the ball, hit the ball, and catch the ball. What people do to their own bodies in order to make them better at it shouldn't make a bit of difference.

[MMXcalibur]

I'm confused, was A-Rod banned before for steroids?
If not, this seems rather steep for a "first time offense".

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Should we ban everyone who ever threw a spitball? Every catcher who ever framed a pitch? Everyone who scuffed/pine tarred a ball? Everyone who ever stole a sign? Everyone who trapped a ball and pretended they caught it? Read some books about the early days of MLB. People skipped bases when umps weren't watching. A catcher snuck a motherfucking peeled potato onto the field, threw it into left field when a runner stle third, and then tagged him out with the actual ball when he ran home. Many of those players are in the HOF. Who gives a fuck if people take vitamins, supplements, or steroids?

This is stupid. Baseball is a game. The objective is to throw the ball, hit the ball, and catch the ball. What people do to their own bodies in order to make them better at it shouldn't make a bit of difference.

I agree with your end result, but you are conflating gamesmanship with cheating, and there is a difference.

[Saul Good]

I agree with your end result, but you are conflating gamesmanship with cheating, and there is a difference.

A difference without distinction, IMO.

[Mr. Laz]

The cynic in me is thinking its the Yankmees that are pushing his lifetime ban behind the scenes, just so they can get out from under his bloated, ridiculous contract.

The only thing I'd like about him beating the rap is continuing to fuck them over.

yup


MLB wouldn't be trying nearly as hard to ban a player if it wasn't NY that was looking to get 60 million back

[Mr. Laz]

Should we ban everyone who ever threw a spitball? Every catcher who ever framed a pitch? Everyone who scuffed/pine tarred a ball? Everyone who ever stole a sign? Everyone who trapped a ball and pretended they caught it? Read some books about the early days of MLB. People skipped bases when umps weren't watching. A catcher snuck a motherfucking peeled potato onto the field, threw it into left field when a runner stle third, and then tagged him out with the actual ball when he ran home. Many of those players are in the HOF. Who gives a fuck if people take vitamins, supplements, or steroids?

This is stupid. Baseball is a game. The objective is to throw the ball, hit the ball, and catch the ball. What people do to their own bodies in order to make them better at it shouldn't make a bit of difference.
dumb post is dumb

[Saul Good]

A difference without distinction, IMO.

Actually, baiting umpires into impacting the outcome of games by blowing calls is worse than simply trying to make yourself more capable of hitting the ball out of the park because you chose this (illegal) supplement instead of that (legal) supplement.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

A difference without distinction, IMO.

Pretty big distinction between stealing signs and framing pitches and taking substances to improve your performance that are explicitly banned in a collectively bargained agreement. The first two are no prohibited; the third is.

[Saul Good]

dumb post is dumb

Please explain why cheating to make yourself better at a game (steroids) is worse than cheating by compromising the integrity of the game (doctoring equipment).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Actually, baiting umpires into impacting the outcome of games by blowing calls is worse than simply trying to make yourself more capable of hitting the ball out of the park because you chose this (illegal) supplement instead of that (legal) supplement.

Saul Good, ladies and gentleman. Show me a rule that bans A) and not B).

[Mr. Laz]

why have any rules at all ... they just get in the way of the game.


i would like to see someone try to steal 2nd after i give Salvy a sniper's rifle.

[Eleazar]

I picture the people who make the "baseball is better with steroids" argument as arena football league season ticket holders. More scoring makes any sport better, right?

[Saul Good]

Pretty big distinction between stealing signs and framing pitches and taking substances to improve your performance that are explicitly banned in a collectively bargained agreement. The first two are no prohibited; the third is.

I'll grant you those two...that was more of a slippery slope argument. Of course, I'm not certain that steroid use was prohibited back when Mac and Bonds were doing it...

[tk13]

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/why-arent-other-sports-leagues-asking-to-see-the-biogenesis-records/278224/

This was an interesting article from today. Kind of an obvious question that gets glossed over... but it questions why none of the other sports leagues are getting involved in this issue.

[HonestChieffan]

Rules are the reason for cheats. Truth is the reason for liars.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'll grant you those two...that was more of a slippery slope argument. Of course, I'm not certain that steroid use was prohibited back when Mac and Bonds were doing it...

It wasn't, which is why they should be in.

[LoneWolf]

Actually, baiting umpires into impacting the outcome of games by blowing calls is worse than simply trying to make yourself more capable of hitting the ball out of the park because you chose this (illegal) supplement instead of that (legal) supplement.

It's about maintaining an even playing field for me. Players using steroids to enhance their skills past their natural ability requires other players to do the same if they want to "keep up". There are potential side effects associated with steroid use that some players may not want to subject themselves to. Not to mention that they are illegal without a prescription.

IMO they cheapen the game and reward what I would call bad behavior.

[Saul Good]

I picture the people who make the "baseball is better with steroids" argument as arena football league season ticket holders. More scoring makes any sport better, right?

It doesn't interfere with the fundamental nature of the game. Steroids is to sports what counting cards is to blackjack.

[Mr. Laz]

Please explain why cheating to make yourself better at a game (steroids) is worse than cheating by compromising the integrity of the game (doctoring equipment).
The game is supposed to be about which team has the best players, not who has the best pharmacologists and medical staff.

Holding in football gets a penalty
corking a bat gets you thrown out
Doctoring a ball gets the pitcher tossed
'Doctoring' your body gets you banned

[Saul Good]

It wasn't, which is why they should be in.

Well...there you go. We mostly agree.

[Saul Good]

The game is supposed to be about which team has the best players, not who has the best pharmacologists and medical staff.

Holding in football gets a penalty
corking a bat gets you thrown out
Doctoring a ball gets the pitcher tossed
'Doctoring' your body gets you banned

It's not about medical staffs and pharmacists? Really? Why allow weight lifting? Why allow supplements? Why allow cortisone shots? Why allow Pilates? Why allow hyperbaric chambers?

I can't wait until we go back to 215 pound LTs in the NFL after that league gets cleaned up.

[HonestChieffan]

It's not about medical staffs and pharmacists? Really? Why allow weight lifting? Why allow supplements? Why allow cortisone shots? Why allow Pilates? Why allow hyperbaric chambers?

I can't wait until we go back to 215 pound LTs in the NFL after that league gets cleaned up.



Then every player should shoot up so its fair. Get so fucking wasted that they can rip phonebooks in half. Do away with rules. All this helmet bullshit and worry about concussions. Lets get it right from the get go. Little Leaguers getting schooled on the good stuff they can get someday.

[Saul Good]

Then every player should shoot up so its fair. Get so fucking wasted that they can rip phonebooks in half. Do away with rules. All this helmet bullshit and worry about concussions. Lets get it right from the get go. Little Leaguers getting schooled on the good stuff they can get someday.

What is the rationale of banning steroids? Do we have players dying from steroid abuse?

If anything, legalize it so players don't have to go to Dr. Nick.

[Mr. Laz]

So let's play the 'what if' game.

What if Saul was right and it doesn't matter


MLB releases that it's no longer testing for PED's ... open season, go for it.


1. instantly every player would be on HGH, they would have to to stay competitive. It wouldn't be a choice because you wouldn't be good enough if you didn't.

2. Human nature kicks in ... if every player is taking HGH then players will push it to the next level with Anadrol,Test ... and of course once someone starts it they all have to take them to be competitive. Don't forget that steroids screw with your thyroid and hormones you you have to take Clomid, T3 etc to balance it.

3. Teams have their own PED Doctors and researchers finding the latest and greatest drug combinations to give their team the advantage.

4. quickly spills into college because if the pros have to do then the colleges will

how long before high schools kids start dying because they can't afford doctors so they just start shooting shit themselves?


oh yea ... just let it go, what's the big deal

[Saul Good]

So let's play the 'what if' game.

What if Saul was right and it doesn't matter


MLB releases that it's no longer testing for PED's ... open season, go for it.


1. instantly every player would be on HGH, they would have to to stay competitive. It wouldn't be a choice because you wouldn't be good enough if you didn't.

2. Human nature kicks in ... if every player is taking HGH then players will push it to the next level with Anadrol,Test ... and of course once someone starts it they all have to take them to be competitive. Don't forget that steroids screw with your thyroid and hormones you you have to take Clomid, T3 etc to balance it.

3. Teams have their own PED Doctors and researchers finding the latest and greatest drug combinations to give their team the advantage.

4. quickly spills into college because if the pros have to do then the colleges will

how long before high schools kids start dying because they can't afford doctors so they just start shooting shit themselves?


oh yea ... just let it go, what's the big deal

You mean "what if what is currently happening were currently happening"?

[tk13]

If you read the article I posted it already has slipped down the line. The article alleges there are NCAA athletes on that Biogenesis list. Just no one is doing anything about it.

[Saul Good]

You mean "what if what is currently happening were currently happening"?

I'm sorry. Just kidding. College players aren't all on roids, and high school locker rooms aren't full of do-it-yourself epothicaries. /sleeps better at night

[Mr. Laz]

You mean "what if what is currently happening were currently happening"?
so your position is now 'it's screwed up already so just let it go?'


If MLB basically approves it then it will get MUCH,MUCH worse ... very quickly.

[Saul Good]

so your position is now 'it's screwed up already so just let it go?'


If MLB basically approves it then it will get MUCH,MUCH worse ... very quickly.

Yeah...it will get worse if it's administered by professionals instead of by Dr. Nick. People will start dying left and right from steroids just like they do in the NFL. Oh wait...the NFL isn't full of steroid users. Baseball players use steroids. The NFL is full of 290 pounders who run 4.7 40s naturally.

[Imon Yourside]

He sure paid the price for it in the end, though. And so did the Cardinals.

I'll never forget his epic suck against the Diamondbacks in his last postseason series. He was an absolute, guaranteed out, and it seemed like every time he was up there were runners on base with two outs. Strike one, strike two, strike three, inning over. ****er. And of course, LaRussa wouldn't bench him.

I have no love for the guy. The Cardinals didn't win dick until after he left.

I would have happily taken the guy on the Royals, you ain't juicing you ain't trying. I say let them juice up.

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah...it will get worse if it's administered by professionals instead of by Dr. Nick. People will start dying left and right from steroids just like they do in the NFL. Oh wait...the NFL isn't full of steroid users. Baseball players use steroids. The NFL is full of 290 pounders who run 4.7 40s naturally.
You're so busy moving the goal posts and trying to be a sarcastic prick that it doesn't matter what is being said. Hell ... it doesn't even matter what subject is being discussed.

You are in battle mode and that's it.


laterz

[J Diddy]

if you gotta cheat to make the game interesting...
you know, maybe it's time to end the game

While I agree with your stance, that is not what I was saying.

[Saul Good]

You're so busy moving the goal posts and trying to be a sarcastic prick that it doesn't matter what is being said. Hell ... it doesn't even matter what subject is being discussed.

You are in battle mode and that's it.


laterz

You just said it would get worse if it were permitted...kids are going to drop dead if MLB allows PEDs (...and by "PEDs", I mean stuff other than supplements, creatine, cortizone shots, etc., of course. Those things are fine, obviously.)

[HonestChieffan]

What is the rationale of banning steroids? Do we have players dying from steroid abuse?

If anything, legalize it so players don't have to go to Dr. Nick.

Lyle Alzedo comes to mind.

[Saul Good]

Lyle Alzedo comes to mind.

Of course he does. He's the poster child for it. Let's pretend that steroids killed a guy 21 years ago even though he died of T cell lymphoma of the brain. Even if steroids did cause it, a few medical advancements have been made in the last few decades.

[Setsuna]

I feel betrayed..... :deevee:

Give me a break. Who isn't thankful Sosa and Mgwire took talk away from the Braves and Yankees. GTFO.

[blaise]

If he is banned for life, he won't go in until Rose's ban is withdrawn, IMO.

If he's banned he's not even eligible.

[CrazyPhuD]

Bah they're just banning A-rod to protect Bonds HR record! :hmmm:

[LoneWolf]

Of course he does. He's the poster child for it. Let's pretend that steroids killed a guy 21 years ago even though he died of T cell lymphoma of the brain. Even if steroids did cause it, a few medical advancements have been made in the last few decades.

There are athletes who die from steroid abuse every year. A number of these are suicides due to some of the psychological effects of steroid use and in particular the depression that sometimes occurs when moving off a cycle.

[Saul Good]

There are athletes who die from steroid abuse every year. A number of these are suicides due to some of the psychological effects of steroid use and in particular the depression that sometimes occurs when moving off a cycle.

Who are these athletes?

[CrazyPhuD]

There are athletes who die from steroid abuse every year. A number of these are suicides due to some of the psychological effects of steroid use and in particular the depression that sometimes occurs when moving off a cycle.

Ask how many pro-Wrestlers have died in their 20-30s from heart related issues. Either Wrestling happens to attract a disproportionate share of people with undiagnosed heart conditions or the steroids are doing something....

[Saul Good]

Ask how many pro-Wrestlers have died in their 20-30s from heart related issues. Either Wrestling happens to attract a disproportionate share of people with undiagnosed heart conditions or the steroids are doing something....

Wrestlers are on everything.

[LoneWolf]

Who are these athletes?

It's called the Internet you smug mother fucker. Look it up.

[CrazyPhuD]

Who are these athletes?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-wrestling-list_x.htm

•"The British Bulldog," Davey Boy Smith, 39,died in 2002 in Canada of an enlarged heart with evidence of microscopic scar tissue, possibly from steroid abuse, a coroner said. "Davey paid the price with steroid cocktails and human-growth hormones," says Bruce Hart, a veteran trainer who worked with Smith and was his brother-in-law.

•Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo, 27, died from coronary disease in his San Pedro, Calif., home in 1998, according to his autopsy. Investigators found an empty vial of the male hormone testosterone, pain pills and an anxiety-reducing drug. The Los Angeles County coroner's office determined the drugs might have contributed to his heart condition.

•"Flyin' "Brian Pillman, 35, was taking painkillers and human-growth hormones when he died from heart disease in 1997, his widow said several years ago. Investigators found empty bottles of painkillers near his body in a Minnesota hotel room.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-pro-wrestling_x.htm

USA TODAY's examination of medical documents, autopsies and police reports, along with interviews with family members and news accounts, shows that at least 65 wrestlers died in that time, 25 from heart attacks or other coronary problems — an extraordinarily high rate for people that young, medical officials say. Many had enlarged hearts.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-7-most-shocking-deaths-pro-wrestling-8546133.html?cat=14

Eddie Guerrero was 38 years old when he passed away on November 13Th 2005 from heart failure due to hardening of the arteries.

There are a number of stories documenting the premature deaths and heart issues that have plagued pro-wrestlers and that's not even counting the psychological issues. Considering that they are one of the groups that abuse steroids the most, if you're looking for a canary in the coal mine they are it.

[Saul Good]

It's called the Internet you smug mother fucker. Look it up.

So far, I've heard Lyle Alzado...the guy who died from brain cancer...20+ years ago. If you've got an example of someone who has actually, verifiably died due to steroid use while under the consultation of a doctor, I'm open to read it.

The truth is, nobody is against steroids because they are worried about baseball players dying. It's an excuse to be against steroids for other reasons.

[Brock]

Lyle Alzedo comes to mind.

LMAO ignorant.

[alpha_omega]

See ya Yankee scum!!

[Brock]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-wrestling-list_x.htm



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-pro-wrestling_x.htm



http://voices.yahoo.com/the-7-most-shocking-deaths-pro-wrestling-8546133.html?cat=14



There are a number of stories documenting the premature deaths and heart issues that have plagued pro-wrestlers and that's not even counting the psychological issues. Considering that they are one of the groups that abuse steroids the most, if you're looking for a canary in the coal mine they are it.

I bet it had nothing to do with the mountains of coke those guys did for decades.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

More pro wrestlers have died from downers than coke, FWIW.

[LoneWolf]

http://www.thestlcardinals.com/SteroidsclaimthelifeofKenCaminiti-Wasitworthit.html

http://taylorhooton.org/real-stories/

That literally took me 5 minutes.

[Saul Good]

http://www.thestlcardinals.com/SteroidsclaimthelifeofKenCaminiti-Wasitworthit.html

http://taylorhooton.org/real-stories/

That literally took me 5 minutes.

Try 5 seconds

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1913942

[Lex Luthor]

Trying to win is not worse than trying to lose...not even close.
When did Pete Rose ever try to lose a game?

[Sully]

why have any rules at all ... they just get in the way of the game.


i would like to see someone try to steal 2nd after i give Salvy a sniper's rifle.

He'd never get that shot off in time.

[Brock]

Point is, pro wrestlers are walking chemistry experiments, with all manner of drugs coursing through their veins 24/7. Compare them to competitive bodybuilders, who don't seem to be dying in mass numbers from their very obvious supplementation.

[Brock]

Caminiti was another raging cokehead.

[Saul Good]

When did Pete Rose ever try to lose a game?

The guy sacrificed winning games that he didn't bet on in order to try to win games that he did. It's not trying to lose per se. It's just sacrificing games.

[LoneWolf]

Try 5 seconds

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1913942

Read the sixth paragraph. I can't copy and paste it from my IPad.

[Saul Good]

Caminiti was another raging cokehead.

He died of steroids...not the cocaine and heroin OD that was determined to have caused his death.

[Saul Good]

Read the sixth paragraph. I can't copy and paste it from my IPad.

So you're chalking this coke and opiate overdose by a guy who was also a raging alcoholic and prescription drug abuser to using steroids eight years before he died?

[LoneWolf]

So you're chalking this coke and opiate overdose by a guy who was also a raging alcoholic and prescription drug abuser to using steroids eight years before he died?

"Coronary artery disease and an enlarged heart were contributing factors in the death of Caminiti."

"Prolonged steroid use would absolutely have been a contributing factor to an enlarged and weakened heart."

Yes, he ultimately died of a drug overdose, but his prolonged steroid use was a contributing factor, but lets get all players on steroids. They'rrrrrreeeee Grrrrrreeeeaaaaaatttt.

[blaise]

I don't think Pete Rose should get in. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[Saul Good]

"Coronary artery disease and an enlarged heart were contributing factors in the death of Caminiti."

"Prolonged steroid use would absolutely have been a contributing factor to an enlarged and weakened heart."

Yes, he ultimately died of a drug overdose, but his prolonged steroid use was a contributing factor, but lets get all players on steroids. They'rrrrrreeeee Grrrrrreeeeaaaaaatttt.

He OD'd on heroin (downer) and cocaine (upper) after a life spent drinking himself into oblivion and eating pain pills like they were Pez. Blaming steroids for his death is ridiculous.

I know you have to run with any example of a guy who steroids and died young, but you're barking up the wrong tree here. He admitted that he used steroids in 1996...eight years before he died...of an overdose...of heroin and cocaine. He probably ate Oreos when he was a kid. I'm not ready to make him the poster child for the dangers of trans fats, though.

[Anyong Bluth]

Good, never liked the fucker!

[big nasty kcnut]

I don't want nobody in untill shoeless joe gets in first.

[beach tribe]

The cynic in me is thinking its the Yankmees that are pushing his lifetime ban behind the scenes, just so they can get out from under his bloated, ridiculous contract.

The only thing I'd like about him beating the rap is continuing to **** them over.

That was my first thought.

[Demonpenz]

Sosa juiced and had a corked bat.

[LoneWolf]

He OD'd on heroin (downer) and cocaine (upper) after a life spent drinking himself into oblivion and eating pain pills like they were Pez. Blaming steroids for his death is ridiculous.

I know you have to run with any example of a guy who steroids and died young, but you're barking up the wrong tree here. He admitted that he used steroids in 1996...eight years before he died...of an overdose...of heroin and cocaine. He probably ate Oreos when he was a kid. I'm not ready to make him the poster child for the dangers of trans fats, though.

Your correct. Steroids has never been a contributing factor in any athletes death, there are no dangers from prolonged steroid use, and we should be passing steroids out like aspirin to all athletes to make sports more enjoyable. Sorry, I lost my head for a little bit.

[Eleazar]

It doesn't interfere with the fundamental nature of the game. Steroids is to sports what counting cards is to blackjack.

that dog won't hunt

[Mr. Laz]

that dog won't hunt
that dog won't hunt ..... is deaf,blind and has a urinary tract infection

[pr_capone]

I feel betrayed..... :deevee:

Give me a break. Who isn't thankful Sosa and Mgwire took talk away from the Braves and Yankees. GTFO.

Me? I'm a Braves.

[Saul Good]

So what I'm hearing is that we should ban players for life for using steroids because they might be dangerous and possibly contributed to the death of a guy twenty years ago who used them eight years before dying in an overdose of heroin and cocaine.

When are we going to start banning players for alcohol and tobacco?

Steroids aren't ruining baseball. Steroid witch hunts that cause us to suspect every good player of cheating are ruining baseball. And if you think baseball has a lot of players on them, you shouldn't watch the NFL. There might be half a dozen players who don't deserve to be banned from that league for life based on your standard. If A-Rod and Braun are on the shit to get bigger, faster, stronger, and recover from injuries...guess what...

[Chief Roundup]

It doesn't interfere with the fundamental nature of the game. Steroids is to sports what counting cards is to blackjack.

Totally wrong in your analogy. You can't play blackjack without cards. You can play baseball without roids.
Roids needs to be removed. Not because of the black eye on the game. They have to be removed or else it will affect our children. Children will start using at a younger age. It isn't about the choice of an adult. It is about the children that look up to and idolize these athletes.

[Chief Roundup]

Me? I'm a Braves.

So you from Atlanta? Ever go to the SpeedZone up on north 75?

[Saul Good]

Totally wrong in your analogy. You can't play blackjack without cards. You can play baseball without roids.
Roids needs to be removed. Not because of the black eye on the game. They have to be removed or else it will affect our children. Children will start using at a younger age. It isn't about the choice of an adult. It is about the children that look up to and idolize these athletes.

Why should MLB have to be responsible for babysitting children? Professional athletes do all sorts of things that you don't want your children to do. That doesn't mean we need to ban players for life.

This cracks me up. Everyone is going to change their tunes when 90% of NFL players turn out to be juicing.

[blaise]

Why should MLB have to be responsible for babysitting children? Professional athletes do all sorts of things that you don't want your children to do. That doesn't mean we need to ban players for life.

This cracks me up. Everyone is going to change their tunes when 90% of NFL players turn out to be juicing.


I don't think they should be banned for life, but if a HOF voter wants to vote no on guys like Bonds and Clemens I don't care. I'm not going to feel bad for them, because ultimately they have themselves to blame.

[Saul Good]

I don't think they should be banned for life, but if a HOF voter wants to vote no on guys like Bonds and Clemens I don't care. I'm not going to feel bad for them, because ultimately they have themselves to blame.

I don't really disagree except that they weren't banned at that time to my knowledge. I don't like steroid use. I just don't think it should matter because it doesn't alter the nature of the game. What's more is that everyone just assumes that everyone else is cheating, and that hurts the integrity of the game more than allowing players to help themselves get bigger, faster, and stronger.

Doctoring a ball changes the nature of the game. Using a non-conforming bat changes the nature of the game. Being stronger, less injured, etc. when arriving at the ballpark does not.

If players were dropping dead, that would be one thing. They aren't, though. They are healing faster and having longer careers. There is something inherently wrong with telling players "yes you're injured...yes you're going to have to retire at 36 because your body is breaking down...yes you could be healthy, pain-free, and at your peak for another decade by taking steroids under the supervision of your doctor...but we're going to make you sit there and deal with it as your body breaks down and forces you into retirement at age 35...you know...for your own good". Then, we pat ourselves on the backs before going to watch the NFL where 250 pound Linebackers running 4.5 40s smash people into oblivion...and bitch that the league has become pussified because they can't target heads.

How hypocritical can we get?

[BlackHelicopters]

My advice: start drinking heavily.

[dirk digler]

I don't think they should be banned for life, but if a HOF voter wants to vote no on guys like Bonds and Clemens I don't care. I'm not going to feel bad for them, because ultimately they have themselves to blame.

I have no problem with A-Rod or any other playing being banned for life for breaking the rules in regards to steroids. I don't think guys like McGwire should be banned\not allowed in the HOF because at the time there was no rules in regards to that and I think the HOF voters need to quit being so high and mighty about it.

And for the record I think using steroids is cheating but if you don't ban them then I don't see how you can punish players who use them.

[blaise]

I don't really disagree except that they weren't banned at that time to my knowledge. I don't like steroid use. I just don't think it should matter because it doesn't alter the nature of the game. What's more is that everyone just assumes that everyone else is cheating, and that hurts the integrity of the game more than allowing players to help themselves get bigger, faster, and stronger.

Doctoring a ball changes the nature of the game. Using a non-conforming bat changes the nature of the game. Being stronger, less injured, etc. when arriving at the ballpark does not.

If players were dropping dead, that would be one thing. They aren't, though. They are healing faster and having longer careers. There is something inherently wrong with telling players "yes you're injured...yes you're going to have to retire at 36 because your body is breaking down...yes you could be healthy, pain-free, and at your peak for another decade by taking steroids under the supervision of your doctor...but we're going to make you sit there and deal with it as your body breaks down and forces you into retirement at age 35...you know...for your own good". Then, we pat ourselves on the backs before going to watch the NFL where 250 pound Linebackers running 4.5 40s smash people into oblivion...and bitch that the league has become pussified because they can't target heads.

How hypocritical can we get?

I guess the argument would be that it changed the nature of the record books. It's obviously subjective, so how important that is is up to the voter.
Baseball's HOF is a little different in that respect because it specifically says that character should be considered, so a voter wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Sosa or Bonds corrupted the record books and that's a character issue. Or a voter could say, "I considered it and decided I don't care."

[blaise]

I have no problem with A-Rod or any other playing being banned for life for breaking the rules in regards to steroids. I don't think guys like McGwire should be banned\not allowed in the HOF because at the time there was no rules in regards to that and I think the HOF voters need to quit being so high and mighty about it.

And for the record I think using steroids is cheating but if you don't ban them then I don't see how you can punish players who use them.

Whether or not there was an explicit rule the players knew it was unethical and illegal, so to me that doesn't really matter.
Like I said, it's not the HOF or writers fault MLB was slow to react.

I agree the writers are too full of themselves, though. There's definitely something distasteful about the pompous way a lot of these guys view the process.

[Saul Good]

I guess the argument would be that it changed the nature of the record books. It's obviously subjective, so how important that is is up to the voter.
Baseball's HOF is a little different in that respect because it specifically says that character should be considered, so a voter wouldn't be unreasonable to say that Sosa or Bonds corrupted the record books and that's a character issue. Or a voter could say, "I considered it and decided I don't care."

I can respect someone saying that they're against it because baseball records are supposed to be sacred. I disagree, but I understand it, and I respect the honesty.

What I don't respect is people hiding behind being concerned about the safety of the players. That's either wild hypocrisy or a lie. Nobody who is a fan of the NFL is losing sleep over the safety of MLB players. Nobody

[Saul Good]

The HOF is a joke on the level of the Pro Bowl, so I don't really give a shit about that part of it, anyway.

[blaise]

I can respect someone saying that they're against it because baseball records are supposed to be sacred. I disagree, but I understand it, and I respect the honesty.

What I don't respect is people hiding behind being concerned about the safety of the players. That's either wild hypocrisy or a lie. Nobody who is a fan of the NFL is losing sleep over the safety of MLB players. Nobody

I agree. It's their body. That doesn't concern me.

[dirk digler]

Whether or not there was an explicit rule the players knew it was unethical and illegal, so to me that doesn't really matter.
Like I said, it's not the HOF or writers fault MLB was slow to react.

I agree the writers are too full of themselves, though. There's definitely something distasteful about the pompous way a lot of these guys view the process.

IMHO just because MLB was slow to react that is no reason to punish the players who weren't breaking any rules at the time. Breaking the law is different but I imagine there is a significant portion of players who use illegal narcotics on a daily basis in MLB, NFL, NBA.. and I don't think that will effect them getting into the HOF.

[blaise]

The HOF is a joke on the level of the Pro Bowl, so I don't really give a shit about that part of it, anyway.

Yeah, my initial point in post 2 or 3, or whatever, about the ban affecting his HOF status was mostly about MLB using it to sort of strong arm A-Rod. That's what I believe they did. They said, "If you think you might get in the HOF someday, you have to come clean and admit and take your lumps. Otherwise we're banning you."
And really that's MLBs only actual concrete influence over the HOF. The HOF laws say players on the banned list aren't eligible to come up for a vote.
So, in a way MLB was threatening him with a HOF ban in a roundabout way. And I think it was probably effective, because A Rod obviously has a huge ego and I have to believe he thinks he'll get in someday and he really wants to be in.

Whether or not roid users should, shouldn't be is a side topic.

[blaise]

IMHO just because MLB was slow to react that is no reason to punish the players who weren't breaking any rules at the time. Breaking the law is different but I imagine there is a significant portion of players who use illegal narcotics on a daily basis in MLB, NFL, NBA.. and I don't think that will effect them getting into the HOF.

Agree to disagree but I think the, "it wasn't banned" angle is sort of goofy. They knew it was wrong, so whatever. The player's union fought it all and they were part of that, so they made that bed and they can lie in it. I'm not looking to make excuses for guys that knew there were risks to getting caught.

[Saul Good]

For those who think baseball records are being corrupted by steroids...

Charles Radbourn won 59 games in a season.

John Coleman lost 48 games in a season.

Matt Kilroy struck out 513 batters in a season.

Hugh Duffy hit .440 in a season.

Baseball records don't mean shit. The game has changed...and changed...and changed.

There is already a dead ball era and a live ball era...a segregated era and an integrated era...seasons with 70, 60, 84, 98, 112, 126, 140, 154, 132, and 162 game schedules...one league and two leagues...no divisions, four divisions, six divisions...postseasons with 2, 4, 6, and 8 teams...no interleague play and interleague play, etc. etc. etc.

Why so many people hold onto the idea that baseball records are somehow special when compared to other sports is beyond me.

[blaise]

One thing I know is the steroids in baseball debate is one of the least satisfying in sports and I think most people generally regret getting into it again every time they do.

[Saul Good]

One thing I know is the steroids in baseball debate is one of the least satisfying in sports and I think most people generally regret getting into it again every time they do.

Agreed

One side rails against steroids but can't really form a coherent argument for why.

The other side can make logical arguments for allowing them but still feels dirty for doing so.

[Garcia Bronco]

Professional Baseball is a joke of a sport

[GoChargers]

Make no mistake: the MLB is clearly trying to help the Yankees out by getting them out of that contract. If it were any other team (besides maybe the Red Sox or Phillies) a lifetime ban wouldn't even be on the table. :rolleyes:

[blaise]

Professional Baseball is a joke of a sport

I think its great, especially when the team in your city is winning. It's fun, to me, to look at the next series, the pitching matchups, etc.
When a team is losing 90-100 games it's really crappy, but it's still an awesome game when the team is competing.

[Garcia Bronco]

For those who think baseball records are being corrupted by steroids...

Charles Radbourn won 59 games in a season.

John Coleman lost 48 games in a season.

Matt Kilroy struck out 513 batters in a season.

Hugh Duffy hit .440 in a season.

Baseball records don't mean shit. The game has changed...and changed...and changed.

There is already a dead ball era and a live ball era...a segregated era and an integrated era...seasons with 70, 60, 84, 98, 112, 126, 140, 154, 132, and 162 game schedules...one league and two leagues...no divisions, four divisions, six divisions...postseasons with 2, 4, 6, and 8 teams...no interleague play and interleague play, etc. etc. etc.

Why so many people hold onto the idea that baseball records are somehow special when compared to other sports is beyond me.


And Baseball has been on PED's since the 50's and before that they were drunks.

[GoChargers]

It will be a shame if McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, or any of these other guys who ruined sports' greatest record EVER get in, even by the veterans' committee.

The league used to say Pete Rose had "tarnished the game", but what the juicers did was much worse, IMO.
The Hall of Fame is already full of admitted cheaters. Keeping McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc. out is essentially closing the barn door after the horses got out - not to mention an attempt to erase an entire era of baseball. The MLB and its writers are just throwing a hissyfit now because they all looked like fools once the steroid witch hunt began.

[Rasputin]

As a fan of baseball and sports I would love to go to the MLB HOF if Pete Rose was inducted.


However I wouldn't care to go or wouldn't give a shit to go see Alex Rodriquez in it.

[Rasputin]

I don't even understand why MLB doesn't put Pete Rose in the HOF after all these years? That would bring in a lot of folks and they would be able to charge 5 bucks more I bet.

[MahiMike]

I just don't get why any sport cares about PEDs. We've got wife beaters, druggies, killers, etc. that keep on playing.

Who cares if they are taking modern age supplements? These guys are tough on their bodies. Can't imagine doing it without medical help.

And let me tell ya. If I was a borderline player with the chance to play in the NFL vs. sacking groceries? You better believe I'm shooting something up my ass!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I just don't get why any sport cares about PEDs. We've got wife beaters, druggies, killers, etc. that keep on playing.

Who cares if they are taking modern age supplements? These guys are tough on their bodies. Can't imagine doing it without medical help.

And let me tell ya. If I was a borderline player with the chance to play in the NFL vs. sacking groceries? You better believe I'm shooting something up my ass!

Sports care about PEDs because your chances of success shouldn't be determined by the drugs you ingest.

[blaise]

I don't even understand why MLB doesn't put Pete Rose in the HOF after all these years? That would bring in a lot of folks and they would be able to charge 5 bucks more I bet.

MLB doesn't put people in the Hall of Fame or run it.

[Frazod]

I don't even understand why MLB doesn't put Pete Rose in the HOF after all these years? That would bring in a lot of folks and they would be able to charge 5 bucks more I bet.

Because he's an unrepentant asshole. Rose is his own worst enemy. If he had publicly admitted he was wrong and said he was sorry they'd have put him in the HOF years ago. But he simply refuses to do so. I don't see either side blinking anytime soon.

They'll probably put him in after he dies.

IMO he should be put in regardless.

[Mr. Laz]

I just don't get why any sport cares about PEDs. We've got wife beaters, druggies, killers, etc. that keep on playing.

Who cares if they are taking modern age supplements? These guys are tough on their bodies. Can't imagine doing it without medical help.

And let me tell ya. If I was a borderline player with the chance to play in the NFL vs. sacking groceries? You better believe I'm shooting something up my ass!

competitive balance and fairness


I don't give a shit if an adult wants to take roids or whatever UNLESS they play a competitive sport. Then it's about being fair and level playing field etc.

[Baby Lee]

This ninja is crazzzy!

http://media.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/Image/ninjas/no_ninjas.jpg

[Saul Good]

competitive balance and fairness


I don't give a shit if an adult wants to take roids or whatever UNLESS they play a competitive sport. Then it's about being fair and level playing field etc.

So you agree that it should be allowed, then? Level the playing field. Don't need to worry about "cheating".

[dirk digler]

Agree to disagree but I think the, "it wasn't banned" angle is sort of goofy. They knew it was wrong, so whatever. The player's union fought it all and they were part of that, so they made that bed and they can lie in it. I'm not looking to make excuses for guys that knew there were risks to getting caught.

I don't view it any different than for example NFL players using stickum so they can catch passes. Fred Biletnikoff used it extensively and he is in the HOF.

I just don't see how you can ban a player or treat them differently just because they tried to get an advantage that wasn't breaking the rules. All professional athletes do that to some extent. :shrug:

[Mr. Laz]

So you agree that it should be allowed, then? Level the playing field. Don't need to worry about "cheating".
yea, that's what i said alright ... nothing wrong with your reading comprehension


nothing at all

[Saul Good]

yea, that's what i said alright ... nothing wrong with your reading comprehension


nothing at all

I don't expect you to understand my point, but the rest of the posters here appear to be intelligent.

If your opposition to steroid use is based on competitive balance and fairness, allowing them would remove your issues. Half of the league has used at some point, and every decent player is accused of it, anyway. Just legalize it, and your issues go away.

Of course, you don't want those issues to go away. You want to bitch about how unfair things are.

[J Diddy]

I don't expect you to understand my point, but the rest of the posters here appear to be intelligent.

If your opposition to steroid use is based on competitive balance and fairness, allowing them would remove your issues. Half of the league has used at some point, and every decent player is accused of it, anyway. Just legalize it, and your issues go away.

Of course, you don't want those issues to go away. You want to bitch about how unfair things are.

That's a pretty fucking retarded idea. Because half the league has used it, in order for the other half to gain parity they have to harm their bodies to maintain?

Let's punish the guys doing right until they do wrong. That's a good ol idea.

[MIAdragon]

Make no mistake: the MLB is clearly trying to help the Yankees out by getting them out of that contract. If it were any other team (besides maybe the Red Sox or Phillies) a lifetime ban wouldn't even be on the table. :rolleyes:

Not buying that at all.

[Frazod]

Not buying that at all.

Frankly, I think it's the only thing that makes sense.

Signing Alex to that contract was insane. We're hemorrhaging cash and he's done. The fans hate him. The players hate him. What can we do?

Get our hand puppet Selig to ban him for life!

Brilliant! :toast:

[Saul Good]

That's a pretty fucking retarded idea. Because half the league has used it, in order for the other half to gain parity they have to harm their bodies to maintain?

Let's punish the guys doing right until they do wrong. That's a good ol idea.

He didn't object to it because it's harmful. He objected to it because of fairness. If he had objected to it because of some (mostly imaginary) danger, that would be a different story.

[J Diddy]

He didn't object to it because it's harmful. He objected to it because of fairness. If he had objected to it because of some (mostly imaginary) danger, that would be a different story.

Your solution doesn't take into account that in order for it to be "fair" it requires people who may wish not to take "imaginary dangerous" drugs in order to get on the field.

I repeat once more, sir. That's fucking retarded.

[Saul Good]

Your solution doesn't take into account that in order for it to be "fair" it requires people who may wish not to take "imaginary dangerous" drugs in order to get on the field.

I repeat once more, sir. That's fucking retarded.

Again...I was addressing HIS concerns...not every possible objection. Allowing them would solve HIS concerns that he listed.

As far as YOUR concerns go, there are people in MLB who use...and there are people who don't. Why would non-users suddenly be forced to use?

[J Diddy]

Again...I was addressing HIS concerns...not every possible objection. Allowing them would solve HIS concerns that he listed.

As far as YOUR concerns go, there are people in MLB who use...and there are people who don't. Why would non-users suddenly be forced to use?


If these are isolated events and limited to (from what I've seen) superstars imagine a green light where everyone is a superstar. How can a player with the same skill set even have a chance when the advantage is going to the one pushing needles in their veins?

Answer: they cannot.

[Saul Good]

If these are isolated events and limited to (from what I've seen) superstars imagine a green light where everyone is a superstar. How can a player with the same skill set even have a chance when the advantage is going to the one pushing needles in their veins?

Answer: they cannot.

You think it's limited to superstars? Really?

[Rams Fan]

You think it's limited to superstars? Really?

Adding onto that, there are examples of guys who weren't stars(Melky Cabrera, Ryan Franklin, Andy Pettite, Carlos Ruiz, Bartolo Colon, etc) that have either admitted to using PEDs or been suspended for them.

[Setsuna]

I refuse to believe steroid use led to championships or honors. All these guys were very good players in their own right. When some nobody gets into the HoF due to steroids, then the bleeding hearts can go ahead and bleed out.

[blaise]

I refuse to believe steroid use led to championships or honors. All these guys were very good players in their own right. When some nobody gets into the HoF due to steroids, then the bleeding hearts can go ahead and bleed out.

Yeah, well they did them for a reason, so they obviously felt they helped. You can't tell me steroids didn't help Bonds get the HR record.

[jettio]

Agreed

One side rails against steroids but can't really form a coherent argument for why.

The other side can make logical arguments for allowing them but still feels dirty for doing so.

If using unprescribed PEDs is against the law and your sport has a drug policy, then it is just plain wrong to break the law and cheat.

It is not fair to the players who obey the law and do not cheat.

I think the NFL's drug policy may be closer to what you are proposing all sports should adopt. The NFL seems to allow for prescription use for rehab because players sure are rehabbing faster than they used to.

If a sport wants to allow a more liberal policy regards drugs it should be collectively bargained and medically sound and supervised so that it does not have players breaking the law or the sport's rules.

[Saul Good]

If using unprescribed PEDs is against the law and your sport has a drug policy, then it is just plain wrong to break the law and cheat.

It is not fair to the players who obey the law and do not cheat.

I think the NFL's drug policy may be closer to what you are proposing all sports should adopt. The NFL seems to allow for prescription use for rehab because players sure are rehabbing faster than they used to.

If a sport wants to allow a more liberal policy regards drugs it should be collectively bargained and medically sound and supervised so that it does not have players breaking the law or the sport's rules.

More simply put, they could just leave it up to the players and their doctors and stay out of it.

[jettio]

More simply put, they could just leave it up to the players and their doctors and stay out of it.

It would seem that the league would have to be the ones enforcing the drug policy for violations.

[GoChargers]

Sports care about PEDs because your chances of success shouldn't be determined by the drugs you ingest.

They already are and have been for decades. There's no going back and changing that now.

[Saul Good]

It would seem that the league would have to be the ones enforcing the drug policy for violations.

...or the criminal justice system

[Mr. Laz]

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 37m
BREAKING: Alex Rodriguez will be suspended Monday, likely through end of '14 season, sources have told Outside the Lines.

[Eleazar]

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 37m
BREAKING: Alex Rodriguez will be suspended Monday, likely through end of '14 season, sources have told Outside the Lines.

So they want to end his career, but not lifetime-ban him.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

So they want to end his career, but not lifetime-ban him.

This is good both ways. Yankees cant get out of that contract.

[CoMoChief]

I think Pete Rose should be in the HOF.

So does everyone else who isn't Selig or anyone else on the voting committee.

[Mr. Laz]

So they want to end his career, but not lifetime-ban him.
basically

MLB probably went to Alex and said you have 2 choices.

1. accept the year and half suspension and still have a chance to go into the HOF,play again(remote) and get to negotiate about the remaining 60 million of your contract with Yankees

or

2. fight the suspension and we will go for a lifetime ban. If you lose then you lose everything ... current career,remainder of contract money,chance to go into HOF


since his career is mostly over anyway he is probably going to accept the suspension and just start fighting for the 60 million from the Yankees.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 8s

Barring last-minute change, baseball will allow A-Rod to play through appeal of his suspension, starting tomorrow night.

[Mr. Laz]

A-Rod suspended for 211 games; expected to appeal
Paul White, USA TODAY Sports 3:16 p.m. EDT August 5, 2013
2013-07-31-arod-main
Yankees slugger has 72 hours to file appeal of suspension that starts Thursday.

Nelson Cruz and Jhonny Peralta among players to be banned for 50 games

Alex Rodriguez was suspended effective Thursday through the 2014 season and 12 other major and minor leaguers for 50 games in the most sweeping sanctions in Major League Baseball's decade-long battle against performance-enhancing drugs -- but the New York Yankees third baseman expects to be in the lineup for tonight's game in Chicago.

The most significant other names on the list announced today by MLB as part of its investigation into the Biogenesis anti-aging clinic include Texas Rangers outfielder Nelson Cruz, Detroit Tigers shortstop Jhonny Peralta and San Diego Padres shortstop Everth Cabrera. They follow Milwaukee Brewers All-Star Ryan Braun, who agreed to a 65-game suspension two weeks ago.

While the others accepted their punishment, Rodriguez can continue to play as he is expected to appeal his suspension, which amounts to 211 games. Rodriguez is scheduled to play his first major league game of the season tonight after offseason hip surgery.

Rodriguez has 72 hours to file a grievance. The appeal would be heard within 10 days by arbitrator Fredric Horowitz, and he has 25 days to render a decision.

"Rodriguez's discipline under the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program is based on his use and possession of numerous forms of prohibited performance-enhancing substances, including testosterone and Human Growth Hormone, over the course of multiple years," MLB said in a statement. "Rodriguez's discipline under the Basic Agreement is for attempting to cover-up his violations of the Program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation. The suspension, which will become effective on Thursday, August 8, will cover 211 Championship Season games and any 2013 Postseason games in which Rodriguez otherwise would have been eligible to play."

Among the other players suspended for 50 games were: Philadelphia Phillies reliever Antonio Bastardo, New York Mets outfielder Jordany Valdespin, Yankees catcher Francisco Cervelli, Seattle Mariners minor league catcher Jesus Montero, Mets minor league outfielder Cesar Puello, San Diego Padres minor league pitcher Fautino De Los Santos, Houston Astros minor league pitcher Sergio Escalona, Yankees minor league outfielder Fernando Martinez and free-agent pitcher Jordan Norberto.

MLB also announced there would be no further discipline against Oakland pitcher Bartolo Colon, Toronto outfielder Melky Cabrera and San Diego catcher Yasmani Grandal. All were involved in the Biogenesis investigation but already have served 50-game suspensions.

Cruz's acceptance stunned the playoff-contending Rangers, who trail the Oakland Athletics by 2 1/2 games in the American League West and have no ready replacement for their right fielder. Cruz ranks fourth in the American League in home runs (27) and fifth in RBI (76).

Cruz would be eligible for the postseason but most significant for the 33-year-old is that he can enter this winter's free-agent market with his punishment behind him.

[Frazod]

Perhaps Wickedson will be along later to explain why there are no current or former Cardinals on the list of suspended players..... :hmmm:

Plenty of his beloved Yankmees on there, however.

[MIAdragon]

So they want to end his career, but not lifetime-ban him.

He was done anyway.

[loochy]

Cruz's acceptance stunned the playoff-contending Rangers, who trail the Oakland Athletics by 2 1/2 games in the American League West and have no ready replacement for their right fielder. Cruz ranks fourth in the American League in home runs (27) and fifth in RBI (76).

Cruz would be eligible for the postseason but most significant for the 33-year-old is that he can enter this winter's free-agent market with his punishment behind him.

Man that is tough for the Rangers. They can't hit anyway, then get rid of their power guy - yeesh.

[Mr. Laz]

Perhaps Wickedson will be along later to explain why there are no current or former Cardinals on the list of suspended players..... :hmmm:

Plenty of his beloved Yankmees on there, however.

wow ... when did you start wearing pink flowered panties?

LMAO

[Deberg_1990]

Just to be clear, this guy seems like the biggest selfish, entitled, D Bag athlete I've ever seen. I hope he never makes the Hall.