Chiefs cap space now at 2.557 million

[MotherfuckerJones]

Nick Jacobs ‏ @ Jacobs71 7h
Looking at the # Chiefs cap space per NFLPA report. It was $5.9M at noon. Now at $2,557,489.00

Daniel Rosenman ‏ @ Pigskin_Expert 7h
@ Jacobs71 so does that mean they've signed some of these guys?

Nick Jacobs ‏ @ Jacobs71 7h
@ Pigskin_Expert It means 3 million is gone and nothing has been announced.

3:45 am - 11 sep 13 · details
tweet text reply to @ jacobs71 image will appear as a link
daniel rosenman ‏ @ Pigskin_Expert 11s
@ Jacobs71 strange

[Halfcan]

?

[BlackHelicopters]

What does this mean?

[Easy 6]

:hmmm:

[CoMoChief]

They're using Denver techniques of moving/manipulating cap dollars.

DORSEY TRIES TO WIN AT ALL COSTS!!!!

[Bwana]

Hmmm

http://cdn.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/545/579/612/l_unsolved-mysteries-largest-set-4ddb.jpg

[BlackHelicopters]

The truth is out there.

[chief4life]

It means we probaby signed someone now the question is who?

[MotherfuckerJones]

Ya just seen it and its interesting.

[CaliforniaChief]

We bought a lot of tacos yesterday. Dayum.

[MotherfuckerJones]

My guess is if possible, and I mean if he's allowed to, an extension for Houston

[Titty Meat]

Jarius Byrd

[CaliforniaChief]

Maybe we're restructuring to front-load more contracts so we aren't in such a pinch next year? I literally am just guessing.

[DaneMcCloud]

My guess is if possible, and I mean if he's allowed to, an extension for Houston

If Houston was extended, it's likely cap space would increase, not decrease.

The same could be said for any extension.

[MotherfuckerJones]

If Houston was extended, it's likely cap space would increase, not decrease.

The same could be said for any extension.

Ok well I don't know what his salary is this year. I know he's on a 3rd round pick contract so thought maybe it'd increase

[Mr. Laz]

interdasting

[DaneMcCloud]

Ok well I don't know what his salary is this year. I know he's on a 3rd round pick contract so thought maybe it'd increase

According to overthecap.com, it's $747,812.

http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Justin%20Houston&Position=34OLB&Team=Chiefs

[The Franchise]

None of the guys they brought in for workouts would command that kind of money.....unless they signed more than one.

[DaneMcCloud]

None of the guys they brought in for workouts would command that kind of money.....unless they signed more than one.

Even then it would be veteran minimum.

Maybe they extended Berry and Houston?

Ah, fuck it: It's just all speculation.

[CaliforniaChief]

And wouldn't it almost always be announced first, and then accounted for?

[Dante84]

BRANDON LLOYD

[MotherfuckerJones]

Even then it would be veteran minimum.

Maybe they extended Berry and Houston?

Ah, **** it: It's just all speculation.

Ya lol but fun speculation.

[CaliforniaChief]

It's not Brandon Lloyd. There was an article saying he's not even in football shape and has turned 6 teams down already.

[DJ's left nut]

If Houston was extended, it's likely cap space would increase, not decrease.

The same could be said for any extension.

Unless Dorsey's as smart as I hope he is.

Seriously - we're in serious cap shit next season. If there's any way to structure an extension in a manner that frontloads some money into 2013, they damn skippy oughta do it.

I'm not sure if it can be done now that the league year has started, but it would be a huge HUGE help.

It would explain the re-structuring of other players. Afterall, there needs to be some incentive for Houston to sign his extension and the more incentive you can give him, the better. So if pushing off some money of guys that are already here and will be for some time encourages Houston (or even Berry) to take a front-loaded extension to help us out in 2014, there's some logic there.

Because there's not a player out there I can see worth a $3 million cap hit up front.

Even a guy like Si'one Pouha, who has a nice resume, wouldn't cost near that much. Casey Hampton? Shantae Spencer or Marcus Trufant? Austin Collie? Maybe a G like Lance Louis?

There's just nobody out there that could command that kind of coin.

[mcaj22]

there is not a guy out there on the FA scrap heap worth close to 3 million lol

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Leeeeeeeeeeroooooooooy

[keg in kc]

Houston's a 3rd year player, it wouldn't be him.

[saphojunkie]

We bought a lot of tacos yesterday. Dayum.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/DcJFdCmN98s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[COchief]

If Houston was extended, it's likely cap space would increase, not decrease.

The same could be said for any extension.

Not so sure about that there twinkle toes, hmmm a player on a 3rd round rookie contract vs a new contract where him, his agent, Reid, Dorsey, and anyone with a pulse absolutely knows he is exploding into an all-pro at this very moment at the age of 24.

Sweet logical thinkin there brah.

If you can get rich in Hollywood with this kind of brain I am booking my ticket now.

[Dallas Chief]

Houston's a 3rd year player, it wouldn't be him.

I was thinking that. Could it be if they signed him long term? I'm not sure on the rules/practices/implications of doing that this early in the season though. I have zero football salary cap IQ.

[BossChief]

Randy moss?

[BossChief]

Alex Smith better not have already signed an extension.

Is it possible that Houston getting player of the week got him a 3m bonus?

[DaneMcCloud]

Not so sure about that there twinkle toes, hmmm a player on a 3rd round rookie contract vs a new contract where him, his agent, Reid, Dorsey, and anyone with a pulse absolutely knows he is exploding into an all-pro at this very moment at the age of 24.

Sweet logical thinkin there brah.

If you can get rich in Hollywood with this kind of brain I am booking my ticket now.

What are you talking about? Do you know anything about the cap or NFL contracts?

If a player is extended, he's given a huge signing bonus upfront, which is then spread over the cap during the life of the contract. By doing so, the salary cap impact is minimal in the first year.

[CaliforniaChief]

It could be Alex Smith I suppose.

I will say that it's nice that they've actually let him take the field in competition before handing him $63 million.

[DaneMcCloud]

Alex Smith better not have already signed an extension.

Is it possible that Bouston getting player of the week got him a 3m bonus?

:(

[keg in kc]

I was thinking that. Could it be if they signed him long term? I'm not sure on the rules/practices/implications of doing that this early in the season though. I have zero football salary cap IQ.New CBA started in 2011 (the year he was drafted). He's currently under a 4-year deal (every draftee gets a 4 year deal now, with some first rounders getting 5th year options) that I don't believe can be renegotiated.

Interesting read on this stuff here (including escalators Houston will probably hit next year): http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Previewing-the-2013-rookie-deals.html

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Maybe we owed Matt Cassel a bonus and cleaned that up ?:spock:

[DaneMcCloud]

New CBA started in 2011 (the year he was drafted). He's currently under a 4-year deal (every draftee gets a 4 year deal now, with some first rounders getting 5th year options) that I don't believe can be renegotiated.

I *think* it can be renegotiated after year three but not before.

That's the reason why Kaepernick and Wilson couldn't renegotiate after their breakout years.

Good catch on Houston, though. That rules him out this season.

[Molitoth]

Not so sure about that there twinkle toes, hmmm a player on a 3rd round rookie contract vs a new contract where him, his agent, Reid, Dorsey, and anyone with a pulse absolutely knows he is exploding into an all-pro at this very moment at the age of 24.

Sweet logical thinkin there brah.

If you can get rich in Hollywood with this kind of brain I am booking my ticket now.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[COchief]

What are you talking about? Do you know anything about the cap or NFL contracts?

If a player is extended, he's given a huge signing bonus upfront, which is then spread over the cap during the life of the contract. By doing so, the salary cap impact is minimal in the first year.

Was just screwing around with you, but I do understand bonuses and contracts. Wagering a 3rd round contract vs getting a huge contract (this is going down, Houston is no secret). Houston may end up being the highest paid OLB in the league and rightfully so. I think you're being pretty naive or severely underestimating the NFL value of an all-pro 24 year old pashrushing 3-4 OLB, I can guarantee the numbers would back me up but am too lazy to look them up.

[keg in kc]

I *think* it can be renegotiated after year three but not before.

That's the reason why Kaepernick and Wilson couldn't renegotiate after their breakout years.

Good catch on Houston, though. That rules him out this season.The escalator bit I mentioned in an edit to my last post is the only wiggle room for year 4 that I've seen so far.

[BossChief]

Remember, Houston was the last player out of the 2011 draft to sign his contract. I wonder if there were some weird bonuses thrown in for amount of sacks, potw or something else that may have triggered.

Maybe Richard Seymour?

[JoeyChuckles]

I'm guessing the money went towards signing Vince Agnew.

[DaneMcCloud]

Was just screwing around with you, but I do understand bonuses and contracts. Wagering a 3rd round contract vs getting a huge contract (this is going down, Houston is no secret). Houston may end up being the highest paid OLB in the league and rightfully so. I think you're being pretty naive or severely underestimating the NFL value of an all-pro 24 year old pashrushing 3-4 OLB, I can guarantee the numbers would back me up but am too lazy to look them up.

Oh, he's going to get a ton of money, likely more than $60 million overall.

That said, I'm certain that like Hali's contract, much of the money will be backloaded.

[COchief]

Oh, he's going to get a ton of money, likely more than $60 million overall.

That said, I'm certain that like Hali's contract, much of the money will be backloaded.

He signed a 4 year 2.78 mill contract his rookie year, his salary +bonus this year is 750K. You think a new contract is going to be under that Tonto? He'll be getting a massive contract and bonus, even his first year of his new deal will be in the millions sport.

[mcaj22]

3 fucking million for old dick Seymour

i'd laugh

[BossChief]

Oh, he's going to get a ton of money, likely more than $60 million overall.

That said, I'm certain that like Hali's contract, much of the money will be backloaded.

How was Halis contract backloaded?

His deal was 5 years 57 million and in the last two years of the deal he is owed 17 million.

That means he made 40 million in the first 3 years of the deal.

His contract was frontloaded.

[beach tribe]

Oh, he's going to get a ton of money, likely more than $60 million overall.

That said, I'm certain that like Hali's contract, much of the money will be backloaded.

Extending a guy with an already large contract to free up space is one thing.
Extending Houston is going to raise his current number back loaded or not .

[beach tribe]

3 ****ing million for old dick Seymour

i'd laugh

You'd pay 3 million to Seemore Dick.

[DaneMcCloud]

How was Halis contract backloaded?

His deal was 5 years 57 million and in the last two years of the deal he is owed 17 million.

That means he made 40 million in the first 3 years of the deal.

His contract was frontloaded.

I was referring to his salary cap hit. This year, it's something like $15.5 million

[DaneMcCloud]

Extending a guy with an already large contract to free up space is one thing.
Extending Houston is going to raise his current number back loaded or not .

Yeah, you're right. Bowe's number is $4 million, so I'm sure Houston's will be at least that much next year.

[keg in kc]

I was referring to his salary cap hit. This year, it's something like $15.5 millionIt looks like people don't have a real solid grasp on the difference between cash and cap. As you know, contracts that have huge up-front bonus numbers can (and usually are) still hugely backloaded. Which is why you see teams carrying so much dead money on the cap the year after players leave. Just because a guy receives cash up front, it doesn't mean that's how it's carried on the cap, and in the context of this discussion, that's all that matters.

(And that's why you so often see guys restructure to help the team, they're taking that backloaded base salary number and converting it to bonuses, and then usually adding even more backloaded years to their contracts. It's not always the case, but usually is.)

[BossChief]

Between this and last year, Halis cap hits were 30 million worth of his total of 57 million.

The next two years, his cap hit total is 23 million.

Still not "backloaded" as was claimed.

[Chiefaholic]

What are you talking about? Do you know anything about the cap or NFL contracts?

If a player is extended, he's given a huge signing bonus upfront, which is then spread over the cap during the life of the contract. By doing so, the salary cap impact is minimal in the first year.


You're correct, yet I got a feeling Houston's annual salary combined with the bonus hit will be significantly North of $747K. A $4 million cap hit this season wouldn't be too far out of the question and likely a damn good bargain for the Chiefs.

[beach tribe]

Alex Smith better not have already signed an extension.


Please dont say this.

That is the only thing that could happpen that would fuck up my good Chiefs vibes.
Other than catastrohpic injuries of course.

[beach tribe]

It looks like people don't have a real solid grasp on the difference between cash and cap. As you know, contracts that have huge up-front bonus numbers can (and usually are) still hugely backloaded. Which is why you see teams carrying so much dead money on the cap the year after players leave. Just because a guy receives cash up front, it doesn't mean that's how it's carried on the cap, and in the context of this discussion, that's all that matters.

(And that's why you so often see guys restructure to help the team, they're taking that backloaded base salary number and converting it to bonuses, and then usually adding even more backloaded years to their contracts. It's not always the case, but usually is.)

Nice Post.

[keg in kc]

Between this and last year, Halis cap hits were 30 million worth of his total of 57 million.

The next two years, his cap hit total is 23 million.

Still not "backloaded" as was claimed.There's a few different ways of looking at that. One of them is 18.25 million in years 1-2, and 39 million in years 3-5. Either way, he's still carrying huge cap numbers in 2014 and 2015, even with his 2013 salary cut in half. Which makes him a likely candidate for a restructure or even a release, particularly when you consider Houston's pending free agency in 2015.

[chiefzilla1501]

Unless Dorsey's as smart as I hope he is.

Seriously - we're in serious cap shit next season. If there's any way to structure an extension in a manner that frontloads some money into 2013, they damn skippy oughta do it.

I'm not sure if it can be done now that the league year has started, but it would be a huge HUGE help.

It would explain the re-structuring of other players. Afterall, there needs to be some incentive for Houston to sign his extension and the more incentive you can give him, the better. So if pushing off some money of guys that are already here and will be for some time encourages Houston (or even Berry) to take a front-loaded extension to help us out in 2014, there's some logic there.

Because there's not a player out there I can see worth a $3 million cap hit up front.

Even a guy like Si'one Pouha, who has a nice resume, wouldn't cost near that much. Casey Hampton? Shantae Spencer or Marcus Trufant? Austin Collie? Maybe a G like Lance Louis?

There's just nobody out there that could command that kind of coin.

There will be some tricky maneuvering for sure. Tyson Jackson is likely out, though he might be retained for cheap. Branden Albert is almost definitely a goner. Apart from that, you can maybe restructure Berry's base salary next year into a signing bonus and figure out Alex Smith's $7.5M hit. The only guy beyond that who is expensive but maybe expendable is Dunta Robinson.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I hope this has nothing to do with Smith.

Jesus...

[chiefzilla1501]

Please dont say this.

That is the only thing that could happpen that would **** up my good Chiefs vibes.
Other than catastrohpic injuries of course.

I dunno. Smith has a $7.5M cap charge in 2014 and costs nothing to cut. One possibility is maybe they turned $6M of that into a 2-year signing bonus? It's the only thing that seems to make sense, unless they restructured Berry (which it seems way too early for them to do that).

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I can understand Axl as the stop-gap. I can at least get that. By TYING yourself to him long term?

Unacceptable.

[chiefzilla1501]

I can understand Axl as the stop-gap. I can at least get that. By TYING yourself to him long term?

Unacceptable.

I hope it's what I said. In which case, he becomes a free agent in 2015. Would be a real smart move by the Chiefs but I'm skeptical Smith would accept that.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

They're using Denver techniques of moving/manipulating cap dollars.

DORSEY TRIES TO WIN AT ALL COSTS!!!!

God I hope so.

I hope it's what I said. In which case, he becomes a free agent in 2015. Would be a real smart move by the Chiefs but I'm skeptical Smith would accept that.

He'll make a fine QB coach.

[keg in kc]

I can understand Axl as the stop-gap. I can at least get that. By TYING yourself to him long term?

Unacceptable.You misspelled "unavoidable".

[beach tribe]

I dunno. Smith has a $7.5M cap charge in 2014 and costs nothing to cut. One possibility is maybe they turned $6M of that into a 2-year signing bonus? It's the only thing that seems to make sense, unless they restructured Berry (which it seems way too early for them to do that).

So out of all the possible scenarios that one could imagine this one is the most probable?
Im not sure about that.
I think his contract is just fine for right now.

[chiefzilla1501]

So out of all the possible scenarios that one could imagine this one is the most probable?
Im not sure about that.
I think his contract is just fine for right now.

Our cap situation in 2014 looks really tight, and that's not including Branden Albert.

Alex Smith is signed for 2014 and costs nothing to cut next year. It seems pretty logical to convert much of his 2014 base salary to a signing bonus. Alex Smith benefits because he won't be cut and gets paid the same. The Chiefs benefit because they absorb $3M of his cap this year, and save $3M on the cap next year.

I don't know. Just saying, if the Chiefs restructured any contract, that's the contract that makes the most sense.

[beach tribe]

You misspelled "unavoidable".

Dude.........


Geesus......

[beach tribe]

Our cap situation in 2014 looks really tight, and that's not including Branden Albert.

Alex Smith is signed for 2014 and costs nothing to cut next year. It seems pretty logical to convert much of his 2014 base salary to a signing bonus. Alex Smith benefits because he won't be cut and gets paid the same. The Chiefs benefit because they absorb $3M of his cap this year, and save $3M on the cap next year.

I don't know. Just saying, if the Chiefs restructured any contract, that's the contract that makes the most sense.
Errrrrrrr.

If this team is SMART they will be spending their time worrying about locking up guys like Houston before they do shit else, and waiting for Alex to EARN a new contract.

[keg in kc]

Dude.........


Geesus......He's going to be extended before his two current years are up. He doesn't have to "prove" anything to them. He won't need to "earn" anything. They wouldn't be giving up 2 2nds for a "well, we'll see what he can do". They love the guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Errrrrrrr.

If this team is SMART they will be spending their time worrying about locking up guys like Houston before they do shit else, and waiting for Alex to EARN a new contract.

I'm not talking about extending Smith's contract. I'm talking about taking his $7.5M base salary in 2014, and spreading it out over two years so that in 2014, you're saving $3M against the cap.

And the Chiefs' cap in 2015, when Houston is a free agent, is favorable.

It does the Chiefs no good to extend Houston right now. Next year is a different story.

[beach tribe]

He's going to be extended before his two current years are up. He doesn't have to "prove" anything to them. He won't need to "earn" anything. They wouldn't be giving up 2 2nds for a "well, we'll see what he can do". They love the guy.

You guys COMPLETELY undervalue what much a smart, productive, accurate, intelligent........elite game manager is worth.
Hes got this year to, hell, probably mid next year to prove he can be more than that.

[beach tribe]

I'm not talking about extending Smith's contract. I'm talking about taking his $7.5M base salary in 2014, and spreading it out over two years so that in 2014, you're saving $3M against the cap.

And the Chiefs' cap in 2015, when Houston is a free agent, is favorable.

It does the Chiefs no good to extend Houston right now. Next year is a different story.

You dont think its gonna be cheaper now than after he gets 20 sacks this season?

Head scratcher there.

Thats the risk you take in waiting on signing guys like him.

[keg in kc]

You guys COMPLETELY undervalue what much a smart, productive, accurate, intelligent........elite game manager is worth.
Hes got this year to, hell, probably mid next year to prove he can be more than that.WTF does that have to do with anything I said?

[keg in kc]

You dont think its gonna be cheaper now than after he gets 20 sacks this season?

Head scratcher there.

Thats the risk you take in waiting on signing guys like him.They can't because of the CBA.

[Shaid]

You dont think its gonna be cheaper now than after he gets 20 sacks this season?

Head scratcher there.

Thats the risk you take in waiting on signing guys like him.

This is where I'm at. Long term extension now.

[chiefzilla1501]

You dont think its gonna be cheaper now than after he gets 20 sacks this season?

Head scratcher there.

Thats the risk you take in waiting on signing guys like him.

How cheap do you think Houston is going to be? He's coming off a 10-sack season and is ascending. He's got to be worth at least $8-10M a year if he got a new contract today. That contract will be as much of a cap burden as if he got a mega contract 2 years from now, if you consider that he'll only get paid less than $2M over the next 2 years.

[beach tribe]

How cheap do you think Houston is going to be? He's coming off a 10-sack season and is ascending. He's got to be worth at least $8-10M a year if he got a new contract today. That contract will be as much of a cap burden as if he got a mega contract 2 years from now, if you consider that he'll only get paid less than $2M over the next 2 years.

How old is Houston 24?

He will be substantially cheaper now than 2 years from now.

...As a GM you are basically betting on him to FAIL in the next two years if you follow your model.

[beach tribe]

They can't because of the CBA.

Educate my ignant ass.

I dont know why.

[keg in kc]

Educate my ignant ass.

I dont know why.Rookies are locked into 4-year deals under the rookie pay scale that began in 2011, Houston's rookie year. Dane thinks they can renegotate after year 3, but I don't think that's the case; either way, Houston is a 3rd year player, so he's locked.

[beach tribe]

How cheap do you think Houston is going to be? He's coming off a 10-sack season and is ascending. He's got to be worth at least $8-10M a year if he got a new contract today. That contract will be as much of a cap burden as if he got a mega contract 2 years from now, if you consider that he'll only get paid less than $2M over the next 2 years.


Houston has never really made any big money.
You think he wants to wait around for two years in one of the most brutal sports in the world to try and collect.

A 10 sack season, although all the potential is there is not 8-10 mil.
The franchise tag is a little over nine.

Look, I dont know if they are even looking at Houston, but getting 5 years of Rape instead of 2 at a bargain would be something I had to explore pretty hard.

[beach tribe]

Rookies are locked into 4-year deals under the rookie pay scale that began in 2011, Houston's rookie year. Dane thinks they can renegotate after year 3, but I don't think that's the case; either way, Houston is a 3rd year player, so he's locked.

Lol.

Wish I had known this before I wasted everyones time.
I do remember reading all of this, but was under the impression that the player could not hold out..but the team COULD give them a raise.


...Now I remember the article/thread was about Russel Wilson, and realize I am completely wrong.

[beach tribe]

I'm not talking about extending Smith's contract. I'm talking about taking his $7.5M base salary in 2014, and spreading it out over two years so that in 2014, you're saving $3M against the cap.

And the Chiefs' cap in 2015, when Houston is a free agent, is favorable.

It does the Chiefs no good to extend Houston right now. Next year is a different story.

In light of new evidence, heh, this is not a bad idea as long as no yrs get added.

[chiefzilla1501]

Houston has never really made any big money.
You think he wants to wait around for two years in one of the most brutal sports in the world to try and collect.

A 10 sack season, although all the potential is there is not 8-10 mil.
The franchise tag is a little over nine.

Look, I dont know if they are even looking at Houston, but getting 5 years of Rape instead of 2 at a bargain would be something I had to explore pretty hard.

In either event, the point is moot, because neither he nor the team can renegotiate until after this year.

[chiefzilla1501]

In light of new evidence, heh, this is not a bad idea as long as no yrs get added.

Glad you see it that way. Because I was trying to go through the numbers and was ready to concede defeat.

[007]

What does this mean?

What happened, happened and couldn't have happened any other way.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You misspelled "unavoidable".

The Chiefs misspelled "Geno".