Anyone here know concrete?

[Rain Man]

Disclaimer: This is not about the Chiefs, but nonetheless it is quite interesting. To me, anyway.

My house sits pretty high off the street, so if you're standing on the street, here's what you encounter as you walk toward the front door.

Zone 1. Curb
Zone 2. Small Median of dirt/plants and a couple of large trees (6 feet deep)
Zone 3. Sidewalk
Zone 4. About 8 concrete steps up through a sloped area of plants.
Zone 5. Little flat concrete walkway area through plants and a couple of ornamental trees (4 feet deep)
Zone 6. Concrete open area that goes three directions - left side of house to reach side door, straight ahead to Zone 7, and right side of house to apartment door (10 feet deep)
Zone 7. About 8 more concrete steps up.
Zone 8. Front porch.

Note that I really don't have a classic lawn or "front yard". It's an older home so the house is only about 30 feet from the sidewalk, and it's up a steep slope that's mostly plants and a few decorative rocks that are too small.


Zones 4, 6, and 7 add up to a lot of concrete, and it's pretty utilitarian. While I like the "no maintenance" nature of the concrete, and it's easy to shovel snow, I'd like to increase the curb appeal.

So I talked to a guy today who does landscape construction. He gave me a couple of options:

1. Tear all of the concrete out and replace it with a new concrete that has nice patterns and trim and stuff.

2. "Clad" the existing concrete by putting stone over it and mortaring it in (or something like that).

Option 1 seems nice, but my guess is that it's also expensive. Option 2 seems like it would be more cost-effective, and the existing concrete is in good shape. However, I always worry about creating layers on outdoor stuff. I have this nightmare scenario of water seeping in between the concrete and stone and ending up with a bunch of mold or mosquito breeding ground, or just having the stuff rot and collapse. I don't think concrete really rots, but you know what I mean.

What do you think? What's the better option?

[Hoover]

How about a picture?

[mlyonsd]

Do you ever have to clear snow with a shovel?

[DaneMcCloud]

We had a concrete pony wall and sidewalk in our small front yard when we purchased the house back in 2003. Besides the fact it was ugly and "cold", it was fairly useless for anything other than trash bins (and who really wants to see trash bins in their front "yard"?

So, I hired a cousin of my gardener and paid $500 for it to be removed and another $125 for a trash bin. I had the gardener install a sprinkler system, sod and at the time, three 10 foot Queen Palms.

The yard completely changed the home and made it much warmer and the trees (Larry, Moe and Shemp) are now pushing 45 foot tall, almost as tall as the house.

[Phobia]

They're both expensive. If done correctly, cladding can be very nice. It's definitely an incredibly curb appeal improvement. But it's difficult to shovel, clean, seal, and maintain. I'm working on a house in a very, very expensive part of town. Let's just say there are 2 sportscars in the garage which cost more than my house. They just stripped all the "clad" stone away from their pool and put in stamped, decorative concrete because the stone was incredibly high maintenance.

Even though you think it's going to be expensive, choose option 1. Make sure you properly vet your contractor. There are a lot of morons out there passing themselves off as concrete experts.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Denver had a QB (Griese) who was quite familiar with concrete

[Halfcan]

You could just move-probably cheaper in the long run.

[Rain Man]

How about a picture?

Lemme see if I have one handy.

Ah. Here's one. It's about 10 years old, so the plants have grown in a lot. You can see the first set of stairs, and can probably imagine Zone 6 and the second set.

[Rain Man]

Do you ever have to clear snow with a shovel?

It doesn't snow much here in Colorado other than maybe September through April.

[Rain Man]

They're both expensive. If done correctly, cladding can be very nice. It's definitely an incredibly curb appeal improvement. But it's difficult to shovel, clean, seal, and maintain. I'm working on a house in a very, very expensive part of town. Let's just say there are 2 sportscars in the garage which cost more than my house. They just stripped all the "clad" stone away from their pool and put in stamped, decorative concrete because the stone was incredibly high maintenance.

Even though you think it's going to be expensive, choose option 1. Make sure you properly vet your contractor. There are a lot of morons out there passing themselves off as concrete experts.

Y'know, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I plan to live in this house until the sun explodes, so I'm big on doing things in the best long-term manner and with the least maintenance. The guy today was telling me that cladding would be no problem, but I generally am suspect of anything that requires sealing.

How do I vet a concrete guy?

[mlyonsd]

It doesn't snow much here in Colorado other than maybe September through April.

Har har. I meant do YOU shovel it or do you make your wife do it.

In retrospect it doesn't matter because with your money Id go option 2 and hire a company for snow removal.

[Rain Man]

Har har. I meant do YOU shovel it or do you make your wife do it.

In retrospect it doesn't matter because with your money Id go option 2 and hire a company for snow removal.


Oh. I understand now.

My wife and I shovel, and it's quite a bit of shoveling. We have the sidewalk, the two sets of steps, the big Zone 6 area, the stairs down to the apartment, the walkway around the house to get to the garage, and then the walkway in the back yard to the garage. (It's a separate freestanding garage.) We don't have the kind of cash it would take to get someone else to do it, and our butler and chauffeur both had it written into their employment agreements that they don't have to shovel.

Is Option 2 harder to shovel? Because I really don't like to shovel even when it's easy.

[DaneMcCloud]

How do I vet a concrete guy?

I don't know if it's available in Colorado but when I had my 1,100 square foot patio torn out, had the underlying concrete poured and re-sloped, then had flagstone installed, I called the Contractor's Guild.

From there, I was given three names and met with each company & contractor. The bids were all within $500 of each other so at that point, it was just a matter of who made me feel most comfortable.

I was extremely happy with the results and have continued to use that same contractor for jobs both small and large for the past ten years.

[Rain Man]

I want to work with a member of a guild. Do they dress like it's the middle ages and stuff, because that would be cool.

[kepp]

Boulders

[Buehler445]

Oh. I understand now.

My wife and I shovel, and it's quite a bit of shoveling. We have the sidewalk, the two sets of steps, the big Zone 6 area, the stairs down to the apartment, the walkway around the house to get to the garage, and then the walkway in the back yard to the garage. (It's a separate freestanding garage.) We don't have the kind of cash it would take to get someone else to do it, and our butler and chauffeur both had it written into their employment agreements that they don't have to shovel.

Is Option 2 harder to shovel? Because I really don't like to shovel even when it's easy.

I think both of them will be harder to shovel.

I'd find another way. I love concrete. I wish I had more at my house.

[Buehler445]

I think both of them will be harder to shovel.

I'd find another way. I love concrete. I wish I had more at my house.

Looking at the picture, I'd put some better mulch or some nice looking rocks around the plants.

One think I'd definitely do to increase curb appeal is replace the handrail closest to the street. I'd probably do the one closest to the house too. Get a nice design that is sturdy, get it powder coated (insist on this) and install. Instant upgrade. There are some really nice options out there that help a lot.

As much snow as you get I'd nix anything textured. I think there are some tinted concrete options that may make it stand out.

[Rain Man]

Looking at the picture, I'd put some better mulch or some nice looking rocks around the plants.

One think I'd definitely do to increase curb appeal is replace the handrail closest to the street. I'd probably do the one closest to the house too. Get a nice design that is sturdy, get it powder coated (insist on this) and install. Instant upgrade. There are some really nice options out there that help a lot.

As much snow as you get I'd nix anything textured. I think there are some tinted concrete options that may make it stand out.

Yeah, we're looking at replacing all of the metal. It's a bit dated. The challenge is that we live in a historic district, so we may not have carte blanche on something stylish to replace it.

I think tinted concrete is what the guy was talking about with Option 1. He suggested doing a cool pattern on our big flat area, which I think could be pretty awesome.

[Rain Man]

Boulders

Don't get me started on that again. The wounds have not yet healed.

[Hoover]

I'd build a giant retaining wall and expand my yard.

[nstygma]

How do I vet a concrete guy?
I asked John Gruden, he said all you need to know is Tim Tebow is 250 pounds of concrete cyanide. There ya go.

[DeezNutz]

Yeah, we're looking at replacing all of the metal. It's a bit dated. The challenge is that we live in a historic district, so we may not have carte blanche on something stylish to replace it.

I think tinted concrete is what the guy was talking about with Option 1. He suggested doing a cool pattern on our big flat area, which I think could be pretty awesome.

Why can't you stain the existing concrete, particularly since it's in good shape? This + new railing + a bit more dramatic rock/landscaping and lighting = win (and far more cost effective).

[DonInDenver]

As with ALL construction, you get what you want and pay for. Go cheap, get cheap. I personally wouldn't clad anything.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, we're looking at replacing all of the metal. It's a bit dated. The challenge is that we live in a historic district, so we may not have carte blanche on something stylish to replace it.

I think tinted concrete is what the guy was talking about with Option 1. He suggested doing a cool pattern on our big flat area, which I think could be pretty awesome.

Stamped concrete?

[Hoover]

If it was my house I'd probably rip out all the landscaping and start over.

1. Remove everything.
2. I'd build a short retaining wall, 18-24 inches high to create some separation from the sidewalk to the landscaping. This would also keep the mulch in place.
3. Heck, I might just terrace it so I had two different planting levels. That way you have have some plants that drape over the sides to soften things up.
4. I'd add lighting.
5. Bring in more color and texture with different plants.
6. Put in some kick ass railing system. Maybe arts and crafts to fit with the style of your home.
7. As for the concrete it self, you should either keep it, or rip it out and replace. I don't like the idea of trying to make it more appealing. I think by doing that you only draw more attention to it. If done right your landscaping will make you look past all the concrete.

[Rain Man]

Why can't you stain the existing concrete, particularly since it's in good shape? This + new railing + a bit more dramatic rock/landscaping and lighting = win (and far more cost effective).

You can stain existing concrete?

[Hoover]

yep

[Rain Man]

If it was my house I'd probably rip out all the landscaping and start over.

1. Remove everything.
2. I'd build a short retaining wall, 18-24 inches high to create some separation from the sidewalk to the landscaping. This would also keep the mulch in place.
3. Heck, I might just terrace it so I had two different planting levels. That way you have have some plants that drape over the sides to soften things up.
4. I'd add lighting.
5. Bring in more color and texture with different plants.
6. Put in some kick ass railing system. Maybe arts and crafts to fit with the style of your home.
7. As for the concrete it self, you should either keep it, or rip it out and replace. I don't like the idea of trying to make it more appealing. I think by doing that you only draw more attention to it. If done right your landscaping will make you look past all the concrete.

I like the look of walls, but the maintenance scares me. I plan to live in this house forever, so I don't want the wall to start leaning and bowing when I'm 80 and can't afford to fix it. A few of our neighbors have walls, and the older ones are looking like trouble.

We're definitely going to do a great railing system. That's a big goal. I'm also hoping to add a larger light feature. We've got small yard lights that are nice, but I'd like a little more presence.

And the picture I showed was from 2006. We've got lots of plants and the trees are bigger, so those aren't going anywhere.

I really would like to bring in some really big boulders for the slope, with plants to accent them, but that would involve removing a lot of plants that we've had growing for a while. Plus, my wife is not a fan of boulders.

[Rain Man]

yep

Does it look good, or does it just look like painted concrete?

I guess with the power of the internet, I can probably just google some pictures, can't I?

[Rain Man]

Wow. Stained concrete floors look cool. Would that work with outdoor concrete that's the more textured stuff?

I want to do something like this just below my top set of steps.

http://images04.olx.com/ui/5/16/52/63321452_4-Stained-Concrete-Special-Everything-Else.jpg

[AustinChief]

You should go with option #1 and get stamped/stained concrete.

AND the most important added feature I would get if I were you... radiant heat built in! Never ever shovel snow again!

http://www.warmlyyours.com/en-US/products/radiant-outdoors

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I'd be very wary of cladding not because of mold, but freeze/thaw.

Acid staining is an option, but definitely get references and see in person. it is an art, and too unqualified people are doing it.

[Rain Man]

You should go with option #1 and get stamped/stained concrete.

AND the most important added feature I would get if I were you... radiant heat built in! Never ever shovel snow again!

http://www.warmlyyours.com/en-US/products/radiant-outdoors

My biggest regret in my kitchen remodel was not doing radiant heating in the floor.

But outdoors? I envision my yard being full of small animals and raccoons luxuriating in the warmth, and having to nudge them out of the way with my foot to get the mail.

[AustinChief]

My biggest regret in my kitchen remodel was not doing radiant heating in the floor.

But outdoors? I envision my yard being full of small animals and raccoons luxuriating in the warmth, and having to nudge them out of the way with my foot to get the mail.

OR... you could supercharge the system and when that happens... crank it up for free BBQ!

Seriously though, how cool would it be to have a system where you can flip a switch and melt the snow/ice instead of shoveling.

[Valiant]

Concrete. Then acid stain it like marble. Seal it. Profit.

[digger]

http://rustoleumrestore.com/

We use this on our concrete porch. It looks nice and it was reasonable in price.

[Phobia]

Y'know, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I plan to live in this house until the sun explodes, so I'm big on doing things in the best long-term manner and with the least maintenance. The guy today was telling me that cladding would be no problem, but I generally am suspect of anything that requires sealing.

How do I vet a concrete guy?

Call area concrete providers to make sure their credit is good. I hired a concrete sub once because he lived a few blocks from me. He couldn't even get concrete. Ended up firing him and losing $1000.

[vailpass]

Mix in a hot tub?

[Phobia]

My biggest regret in my kitchen remodel was not doing radiant heating in the floor.

But outdoors? I envision my yard being full of small animals and raccoons luxuriating in the warmth, and having to nudge them out of the way with my foot to get the mail.

Yes, yes, yes. It's expensive but get a good warranty and never shovel the walk again.

[Marada]

Easiest thing to do would be to acid stain the concrete and then using chalk, draw irregular lines on the concrete in the shape of flagstone. Take a hand grinder and grind along the lines. They will com out looking like grout lines. The big expense is your labor then.