DON'T fire Ned Yost

[Lex Luthor]

Ned made a great decision in the bottom of the 10th inning today. If Ned hadn't had Getz pinch run for Billy, the inning would have been over before Justin Maxwell ever came to the plate.

Everybody hates Ned and wants him to be fired. I don't. He sometimes makes game-time decisions that are easy to second-guess, but you've got to give him credit: the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen. Ned deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

Not only do I think Ned won't be fired, I'm convinced he shouldn't be fired.

Edit: I was drunk with the euphoria of Justin Maxwell's walkoff grand slam when I created this thread. I have since sobered up.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Uh, one no-brainer decision does not make up for the hundreds of horrendous decisions he's made throughout the year.

[lewdog]

So this is the NEG rep thread?

[KCUnited]

Fuck you and your paragraphs.

[GloryDayz]

This thread should be deleted and the hard drives crushed and burned!

[Dartgod]

I fear this isn't going to end well for you.

[KChiefs1]

Screw you dude!

[BlackHelicopters]

:popcorn:

[Deberg_1990]

Ned made a great decision in the bottom of the 10th inning today. If Ned hadn't had Getz pinch run for Billy, the inning would have been over before Justin Maxwell ever came to the plate.

Everybody hates Ned and wants him to be fired. I don't. He sometimes makes game-time decisions that are easy to second-guess, but you've got to give him credit: the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen. Ned deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

Not only do I think Ned won't be fired, I'm convinced he shouldn't be fired.

8-20 May

[Lex Luthor]

Uh, one no-brainer decision does not make up for the hundreds of horrendous decisions he's made throughout the year.
I'm not saying Yost is a tactical genius. He's obviously not. But like I said, you've GOT to give him credit for the way this team has pulled together and put on a playoff run.

They could have easily quit after they went 4-19 during that horrendous stretch in May, and they could have easily quit after they lost 7 in a row in August. They didn't.

If they fired Ned Yost, who are you going to replace him with who would be better?

[Lex Luthor]

So this is the NEG rep thread?
I'm almost afraid to look.

[TribalElder]

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/photo/45/9813/I-Dont-Really-Get-It-It-Has-Word-Retard-It.jpg

ROFL

[duncan_idaho]

Every manager in baseball except perhaps Jim Leyland makes that same sub.

[BlackHelicopters]

8-20 May

True, but neg. just kidding.

[Lex Luthor]

**** you and your paragraphs.

Just pretend it's a big wall of text.

[Pablo]

Fuck you. What the fuck kind of shitty thread is this?

[Lex Luthor]

I feel like I'm Direckshun right now.

[Chiefspants]

I'm not saying Yost is a tactical genius. He's obviously not. But like I said, you've GOT to give him credit for the way this team has pulled together and put on a playoff run.

They could have easily quit after they went 4-19 during that horrendous stretch in May, and they could have easily quit after they lost 7 in a row in August. They didn't.

If they fired Ned Yost, who are you going to replace him with who would be better?

If we have a chance to pull Charlie Manuel, you pull the trigger without ever looking back.

Ned's decisions unquestionably led us to a loss in two or perhaps three critical games down the stretch. He's a small ball overmanager who has no business overseeing a contender.

[Lex Luthor]

Every manager in baseball except perhaps Jim Leyland makes that same sub.
Agreed.

Leyland looked like an idiot when he didn't.

[Pablo]

Maverick makes better threads than this.

[-King-]

You don't even need to be start to make that decision. Billy running the bases in that situation is a double play liability. That's the reason he was walked. He wasn't walked because they fear him, but because he's slow and would be an easy DP candidate almost regardless of where the ball is hit.

[BlackHelicopters]

Maverick makes better threads than this.

ROFL LMAO

[KCUnited]

Trivers thinks this thread sucks.

[Lex Luthor]

If we have a chance to pull Charlie Manuel, you pull the trigger without ever looking back.

Ned's decisions unquestionably led us to a loss in two or perhaps three critical games down the stretch. He's a small ball overmanager who has no business overseeing a contender.
OK, I'll give you Charlie Manuel.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

I'm not saying Yost is a tactical genius. He's obviously not. But like I said, you've GOT to give him credit for the way this team has pulled together and put on a playoff run.

They could have easily quit after they went 4-19 during that horrendous stretch in May, and they could have easily quit after they lost 7 in a row in August. They didn't.

If they fired Ned Yost, who are you going to replace him with who would be better?

I give Ned no credit whatsoever for the success of this team. He has been directly responsible for a multitude of losses which have put this team in a much tighter spot than they really should be. Examples:

A) Letting Wade Davies stay in the starting rotation until August.
B) Repeatedly batting Chris Getz leadoff despite his .250 OBP or whatever.
C) Atrocious mismanagement of the bullpen all year long - most importantly, not letting Louis Coleman pitch in high-pressure situations, and instead letting proven losers like Crow, Herrera, and Davies pitch in those situations.
D) Repeatedly leaving starters in too long. For example, blowing the game against Detroit last Sunday by trotting out Guthrie for the 8th inning when he was already over 100 pitches and had given up 12 hits.
E) Choking away the huge game against Cleveland last Tuesday - wasting Ventura's great start. Coleman, in a rare appearance in a pressure situation, gets a bases-loaded strikeout to get out of a jam. Yost promptly pulls him the next inning, allowing the usual suspects (Herrera and Davies) to blow the lead.
F) Having Carlos Pena pinch hit for Jarrod Dyson in a huge situation with the season on the line.
G) Calls sacrifice bunts like it's 1920.

I could go on and on. This is just off the top of my head.

[Lex Luthor]

I give Ned no credit whatsoever for the success of this team. He has been directly responsible for a multitude of losses which have put this team in a much tighter spot than they really should be. Examples:

A) Letting Wade Davies stay in the starting rotation until August.
B) Repeatedly batting Chris Getz leadoff despite his .250 OBP or whatever.
C) Atrocious mismanagement of the bullpen all year long - most importantly, not letting Louis Coleman pitch in high-pressure situations, and instead letting proven losers like Crow, Herrera, and Davies pitch in those situations.
D) Repeatedly leaving starters in too long. For example, blowing the game against Detroit last Sunday by trotting out Guthrie for the 8th inning when he was already over 100 pitches and had given up 12 hits.
E) Choking away the huge game against Cleveland last Tuesday - wasting Ventura's great start. Coleman, in a rare appearance in a pressure situation, gets a bases-loaded strikeout to get out of a jam. Yost promptly pulls him the next inning, allowing the usual suspects (Herrera and Davies) to blow the lead.
F) Having Carlos Pena pinch hit for Jarrod Dyson in a huge situation with the season on the line.
G) Calls sacrifice bunts like it's 1920.

I could go on and on. This is just off the top of my head.

You forgot about the game where Shields was pitching a 2-hit shutout and leading 1-0 after 8 innings. Yost put Holland in and Holland promptly blew the save.

I can't really argue with any of the points you raised. Ned's blunders can be infuriating.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

You forgot about the game where Shields was pitching a 2-hit shutout and leading 1-0 after 8 innings. Yost put Holland in and Holland promptly blew the save.

I can't really argue with any of the points you raised. Ned's blunders can be infuriating.

LOL. Then why did you start this thread?

[Sure-Oz]

Ned made a great decision in the bottom of the 10th inning today. If Ned hadn't had Getz pinch run for Billy, the inning would have been over before Justin Maxwell ever came to the plate.

Everybody hates Ned and wants him to be fired. I don't. He sometimes makes game-time decisions that are easy to second-guess, but you've got to give him credit: the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen. Ned deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

Not only do I think Ned won't be fired, I'm convinced he shouldn't be fired.

Stop it.

[BlackHelicopters]

This is great.

[tk13]

I will say I don't think that PR substitution was a gimme. Getz' run didn't matter, and if the Royals fail to score you've lost your cleanup hitter the rest of the game over a meaningless substitution. Ned would've probably been criticized for that.

[KCUnited]

This thread is more awkward than Brad Nessler saying Shady McCoy.

[Lex Luthor]

If we have a chance to pull Charlie Manuel, you pull the trigger without ever looking back.

Ned's decisions unquestionably led us to a loss in two or perhaps three critical games down the stretch. He's a small ball overmanager who has no business overseeing a contender.
Of course, the problem with Charlie Manuel is that he's pushing 70 years old and he's already had a heart attack, quadruple bypass surgery, a blocked and infected colon, and kidney cancer. I don't think he'd be the right choice for a young team because he might not be around very long.

[BlackHelicopters]

This thread is more awkward than Brad Nessler saying Shady McCoy.

Jon Gruden thinks this thread is outstanding.

[Lex Luthor]

I will say I don't think that PR substitution was a gimme. Getz' run didn't matter, and if the Royals fail to score you've lost your cleanup hitter the rest of the game over a meaningless substitution. Ned would've probably been criticized for that.

That's exactly right. If the game had gone several more innings and the DH spot came up again with Butler out of the game, people would have been screaming about his idiocy.

[boogblaster]

thought he did a decent job this year .. cant call every move right .....

[Pasta Little Brioni]

All baseball fans hate their manager ROFL it is hilarious listening to the whining all year

[stonedstooge]

Got a pitching staff that was tied for lowest ERA in the American League and still having trouble making the playoffs in a year they added one team to the playoffs. Thanks Ned!

[teedubya]

Brainiac? More like Dumbassiac.

[Pablo]

All baseball fans hate their manager ROFL it is hilarious listening to the whining all yearYou're a Cards fan.

You know nothing of Ned Yost and the Royals.

Shut it.

[tredadda]

Ned made a great decision in the bottom of the 10th inning today. If Ned hadn't had Getz pinch run for Billy, the inning would have been over before Justin Maxwell ever came to the plate.

Everybody hates Ned and wants him to be fired. I don't. He sometimes makes game-time decisions that are easy to second-guess, but you've got to give him credit: the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen. Ned deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

Not only do I think Ned won't be fired, I'm convinced he shouldn't be fired.

Remember when we could have swept Cleveland? I do, but unfortunately Yost felt the best two pitchers to use when holding a lead were Herrera and Davis, possibly our two worst pitchers. No he needs to be fired as an even competent manager would have us already locked in for a WC spot and not needing a miracle to make it. Sadly though we will finish over .500 this year and still have a shot at the WC so he will come back. Lucky us.

[WhawhaWhat]

C) Atrocious mismanagement of the bullpen all year long - most importantly, not letting Louis Coleman pitch in high-pressure situations, and instead letting proven losers like Crow, Herrera, and Davies pitch in those situations.

The bullpen ERA is one of the best of the live ball era. You may not agree with his decisions but using it as a reason to fire him is stupid.

[tredadda]

The bullpen ERA is one of the best of the live ball era. You may not agree with his decisions but using it as a reason to fire him is stupid.

Not because of pitchers like Herrera.

[Prison Bitch]

The Yost discussions all year have made for some humorous game threads.

[Prison Bitch]

Not because of pitchers like Herrera.

He banished Crow and that alone is proof he's not dumb

[MTG#10]

Please kill yourself

[Chiefspants]

He banished Crow and that alone is proof he's not dumb

Luckily Crow only had to serve up three walkoffs before Ned came to that realization.

[kstater]

Why was Kottaras put in in that situation today?

[baitism]

^^^^ get out of my brain

How about when he took out Cain, who actually hits well vs. righties, and puts in .179 hitting Kottaras? What a genius.

[KCUnited]

Why was Kottaras put in in that situation today?

2 walk off walks in 3 games happens.

[ChiefsCountry]

All baseball fans hate their manager ROFL it is hilarious listening to the whining all year

Reading the Cardinal thread makes me back off on the Ned Yost hate. You guys bitch about Matheny and before that LaRussa the same shit that is said about Yost.

[kstater]

2 walk off walks in 3 games happens.

Loaded basses one out...need to put one in the outfield...not Kottaras' strength

[Mr. Laz]

http://i26.tinypic.com/29krq8k.jpg

[nychief]

Fire him, hire Joe Girardi this offseason.

[Lex Luthor]

Fire him, hire Joe Girardi this offseason.

Dick Howser redux? That would work.

[Consistent1]

I really don't put this year on him. Look at all the games where the pitching was ok, but nobody could hit worth a crap. And have still won a lot of games. We just need Cabrera and Trout.

[BlackHelicopters]

I really don't put this year on him. Look at all the games where the pitching was ok, but nobody could hit worth a crap. And have still won a lot of games. We just need Cabrera and Trout.

Cabrera and Trout? How about the fillings from my teeth?

[Consistent1]

I've said it before, I think they should have gotten Dunn. Yes, he only hits like 250, but he is a risk every time he walks out. Sox wanted to get rid of him and he even starts talking about retirement. We could have used a few of his bombs.

[tk13]

It's funny because Dunn has been around forever but he's only 33. He always seems to be a fan favorite... although he hasn't even hit near .250 for like 4 years. He's more like a .200 hitter now. Wonder if he has another resurgence in him.

Other weird thing about him is he hits a ton of homers, but he has played 13 years and never made the playoffs once.

[Infidel Goat]

No need to fire him. Let him manage these last seven games. His contract is up at the end of the season.

FTLOG, though, do not offer him another contract...

[Prison Bitch]

Would be funny to see him win 85 for a small market team and let him go by tellin him it woulda been 95 if only for his bad managing. I bet we'd have a flood of applicants wanting to come work with us. A tsunami of the best in baseball

[Consistent1]

It's funny because Dunn has been around forever but he's only 33. He always seems to be a fan favorite... although he hasn't even hit near .250 for like 4 years. He's more like a .200 hitter now. Wonder if he has another resurgence in him.

Other weird thing about him is he hits a ton of homers, but he has played 13 years and never made the playoffs once.

I know that. His career avg is 230 something, but he also has well over 400 homers.

[Consistent1]

They probably would not trade him to KC unless it was a stupid offer anyway.

[Consistent1]

And Dunn has over 1200 walks in his career. He is boom or bust, but he is fun to watch.

[duncan_idaho]

One more thing Ned Yost deserves blame for:

Let's not forget about his whining to Dayton Moore about needing hitting coaches who would teach guys to hit for more power... introducing the situation that led to the Jack Maloof/Andre David disaster.

I put a big portion of the blame for the May swoon on those buffoons screwing up almost the entire team's worth of hitters.

Yost has not cost the Royals 10 games overall or even probably 5 overall. But I feel comfortable saying he has cost them at least 2-3 over the course of the season (all things considered, good and bad), and that's likely to be the margin between playoff baseball and anxiously awaiting next year while trying to figure out how to convince Carlos Beltran to come "home" to end his career.

[Prison Bitch]

Adam Dunn is about the worst fit imaginable for this team. He can only play one spot where we already have an 8m payroll cancer occupying. Second, there is no second, there's no spot. And that's if he wasn't a fat slow aging no-care hanger on cashing his last paychecks

[Lex Luthor]

Would be funny to see him win 85 for a small market team and let him go by tellin him it woulda been 95 if only for his bad managing. I bet we'd have a flood of applicants wanting to come work with us. A tsunami of the best in baseball

And Yost would have no problem getting another job. Any rebuilding team with young players would jump at the chance to hire him.

That's what people forget. EVERY manager makes decisions that don't work out. Ned Yost is not a good tactical manager, but he is the best fit for this team right now because the players believe in him and they believe in each other.

[the Talking Can]

http://i26.tinypic.com/29krq8k.jpg

don't care about the thread

just wanted to say that i'd hit that

[dallaschiefsfan]

And Yost would have no problem getting another job. Any rebuilding team with young players would jump at the chance to hire him.

That's what people forget. EVERY manager makes decisions that don't work out. Ned Yost is not a good tactical manager, but he is the best fit for this team TWO YEARS AGO because the players believed in him and they believe in each other.

There. Fixed it.

[T-post Tom]

still have a shot at the WC so he will come back. Lucky us.

So which team is most likely to falter: TB or Cleveland? Not sure I see either losing out with a 3.5 lead and only 7 games left. (And TX is still 2 ahead of the Royals.)

[Silock]

OP, I see where you're coming from, but you're just wrong on this.

Ned makes a few good decisions here and there, but they are the kinds of decisions that any competent manager should be able to make.

However, his bad decisions far outweigh the good ones. I can't ever remember a time where I went "Wow, what a great decision from Ned!" in a situation that wasn't totally obvious. A manager isn't going to win you many games with tactics. Maybe 3-4 over the season. But a bad manager can really, really cost you. We'd be solidly in the playoffs right now if it weren't for Ned.

[tredadda]

So which team is most likely to falter: TB or Cleveland? Not sure I see either losing out with a 3.5 lead and only 7 games left. (And TX is still 2 ahead of the Royals.)

TB. Cleveland's schedule is so weak that they would have to implode to not make it. We still have a shot because we are not mathematically eliminated yet.

[Prison Bitch]

Ned sure did a great job after the break when we were left for dead. Something like .630 since. He will get some manager of year votes if we get past 85 wins

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Brainiac? More like Dumbassiac.

ROFL

[Mama Hip Rockets]

The bullpen ERA is one of the best of the live ball era. You may not agree with his decisions but using it as a reason to fire him is stupid.

Yes, the bullpen ERA is great because of Holland, Hochevar, Chen, and the aforementioned, terribly-misused Coleman. Not because of Crow, Davies, and Herrera's performances in high-pressure situations. Pay attention.

[Chiefspants]

Ned sure did a great job after the break when we were left for dead. Something like .630 since. He will get some manager of year votes if we get past 85 wins

Francona (who has outclassed Ned head to head all year) should have that award in the bag.

[Prison Bitch]

Francona (who has outclassed Ned head to head all year) should have that award in the bag.

He was 10-9 vs Ned and was outscored 81-83. Yeah, totally outclassed him head to head. Good one.

[WhawhaWhat]

Let's not forget about his whining to Dayton Moore about needing hitting coaches who would teach guys to hit for more power... introducing the situation that led to the Jack Maloof/Andre David disaster.

I still think the "more homeruns" thing came from ownership and Dayton and Ned had to be the face of it.

[GloryDayz]

And... F*** him for not bringing cheerleaders to the sport... Had he, I might have gone more!

[Mama Hip Rockets]

So...

[Cephalic Trauma]

Wade Davis, bitches.

[Cephalic Trauma]

So...

Damn it!

[Prison Bitch]

Pulled all the right moves last night. Unfortunately the city was asleep so they'll continue thinking the manager is why we won't win 90+ and not the fact our team has like 1 home run in the past 10 games

[Bambi]

I got ridiculed for last week for sticking up for Ned Yost in one of the game threads.

That's why I don't post in them much anymore. Some of the Royals fans on this board don't know shit and it's annoying to have to deal with them.

Ignore lists are great.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Pulled all the right moves last night. Unfortunately the city was asleep so they'll continue thinking the manager is why we won't win 90+ and not the fact our team has like 1 home run in the past 10 games

Yes, Wade Davis was the right move in a tie game with the bases loaded and one out. Give me a fucking break. He hung a couple that could've screwed us.

The Mariners bailed Ned out by being more incompetent offensively than we are.

[Cephalic Trauma]

I got ridiculed for last week for sticking up for Ned Yost in one of the game threads.

That's why I don't post in them much anymore. Some of the Royals fans on this board don't know shit and it's annoying to have to deal with them.

Ignore lists are great.

The feeling is mutual.

[-King-]

Yes, Wade Davis was the right move in a tie game with the bases loaded and one out. Give me a fucking break. He hung a couple that could've screwed us.

The Mariners bailed Ned out by being more incompetent offensively than we are.

Eh. He was good. No reason to try to take that away from him.
Posted via Mobile Device

[whoman69]

Interesting. First winning season in 10 years. You have to go back another 10 years before that. You guys are talking like they should have won the whole thing. They had 2 starting pitchers with an ERA sub 4.0. Pretty good pen which overall makes the club first in runs against in the AL, but the teams ahead in your division are 2 and 3. They had to move 36 year old Bruce Chen from the pen despite that he had an ERA around 2.0 at the time. Your winningest pitcher is giving up more than 10 hits/9 inn.

One player with 20 home runs who also has 135 Ks. You have one starter with a SLG over .450 and that is just barely. 11th in the AL in runs. 2B was a disaster zone until you traded for one in mid August.

Sounds like he was making chicken salad with chicken shit.

[Prison Bitch]

Yes, Wade Davis was the right move in a tie game with the bases loaded and one out. Give me a ****ing break. He hung a couple that could've screwed us.

The Mariners bailed Ned out by being more incompetent offensively than we are.

So when we win, the other team bails Ned out. When we lose, it was Ned.

[Cephalic Trauma]

So when we win, the other team bails Ned out. When we lose, it was Ned.

No, not at all. As you see, I specifically highlighted why I think the way I do.

I don't think in pure generalities, like your post would imply. Maybe you do:shrug:.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Eh. He was good. No reason to try to take that away from him.
Posted via Mobile Device

He was good enough to win. But the call was not the right one in the moment. I would've liked to see Holland.

And I don't feel this way solely because of last night.

[duncan_idaho]

I got ridiculed for last week for sticking up for Ned Yost in one of the game threads.

That's why I don't post in them much anymore. Some of the Royals fans on this board don't know shit and it's annoying to have to deal with them.

Ignore lists are great.

I didn't see that, you getting ridiculed, but sticking up for him is worthy of it most of the time.

Yost is a below average MLB manager. Now, that only costs 1-2 games on the whole over the course of a season, but compare him to someone like Francona, and you're talking about a 5 game swing.

[BigCatDaddy]

Much like batting Getzy lead off should be a fireable offense; this thread should be a bannable offense.

[DaKCMan AP]

the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen.


ROFL

[jettio]

Ned Yost is a good fit for this team and this market.

Brainiac is right that he deserves some credit for the Royals having good team chemistry and a good clubhouse.

Another factor that deserves consideration is how Kansas City has a lot of fans who like to think they are much smarter than the dumbazz manager.

Ned Yost has a talent for pulling enough genuine headscratchers to keep those folks proud.

Players have to play when they have a chance to make the difference.

Last night, Hochevar gives up back-to-back dingers to blow a two-run lead and Wade Davis has a great relief appearance to stop a walk-off victory for the Mariners.

The thing about baseball is you can make the consensus move and it is up to the player to make it work.

Louis Coleman might give up walks, hits and runs the next time he pitches in a crucial situation no matter how great the second-guessers think he is.

[duncan_idaho]

Brainiac is right that he deserves some credit for the Royals having good team chemistry and a good clubhouse.
I actually agree with this. This is Yost's strength.


Another factor that deserves consideration is how Kansas City has a lot of fans who like to think they are much smarter than the dumbazz manager.

Ned Yost has a talent for pulling enough genuine headscratchers to keep those folks proud.


Every fanbase in America second-guesses its baseball managers. I think Royals fans are actually more forgiving of managers than in other places. Low expectations.

Players have to play when they have a chance to make the difference.

Last night, Hochevar gives up back-to-back dingers to blow a two-run lead and Wade Davis has a great relief appearance to stop a walk-off victory for the Mariners.

The thing about baseball is you can make the consensus move and it is up to the player to make it work.

Louis Coleman might give up walks, hits and runs the next time he pitches in a crucial situation no matter how great the second-guessers think he is.

Was there consternation in this thread about going to Hochevar when he did?

Yost's strengths (team unity, chemistry, development of young players) have started being outweighed by his weaknesses (poor tactical decisions, inconsistent tactical decisions, extreme loyalty to struggling players) this year.

Yost's yo-yo tendencies for strategies are my biggest problem with him. He's like the blackjack player who keeps changing his decision points on hit/stay. If you don't have a consistent approach, you run the risk of having the odds screw you more often than they should.

This team is going to go right down to the wire and probably fall a few Ws short. Ned Yost isn't atrocious or even the worst manager in baseball. But he is slightly below average (-1 or -2 a year). Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.

[Prison Bitch]

I Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.


Completely unprovable.

[HemiEd]

You forgot about the game where Shields was pitching a 2-hit shutout and leading 1-0 after 8 innings. Yost put Holland in and Holland promptly blew the save.

I can't really argue with any of the points you raised. Ned's blunders can be infuriating.

But he made one move correctly and he should get an extension!

[BlackHelicopters]

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

[MTG#10]

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?This

[jettio]

I actually agree with this. This is Yost's strength.



Every fanbase in America second-guesses its baseball managers. I think Royals fans are actually more forgiving of managers than in other places. Low expectations.



Was there consternation in this thread about going to Hochevar when he did?

Yost's strengths (team unity, chemistry, development of young players) have started being outweighed by his weaknesses (poor tactical decisions, inconsistent tactical decisions, extreme loyalty to struggling players) this year.

Yost's yo-yo tendencies for strategies are my biggest problem with him. He's like the blackjack player who keeps changing his decision points on hit/stay. If you don't have a consistent approach, you run the risk of having the odds screw you more often than they should.

This team is going to go right down to the wire and probably fall a few Ws short. Ned Yost isn't atrocious or even the worst manager in baseball. But he is slightly below average (-1 or -2 a year). Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.

If Carlos Pena would have swung at one lousy pitch and fouled it off before striking out nobody in Kansas City would even think of replacing Ned Yost.

Ned's wikipedia page says he tried a career as a taxidermist after his playing career. I think that explains pinch-hitting Carlos Pena when he was scared to death and his appendix was expanding.

I can't see how Ned won't get a new contract. IIRC, he got a 2 year deal before the 2012 season. I think he gets a 3 year deal, IMO they should pay him a little more than he deserves per year, in exchange for having team options after each year, but I doubt his agent would go for that.

[jettio]

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

I think getting new hitting coaches, Brett and Grifol, helped a lot.

Something about Dyson getting hurt on that unnecessary leap in Anaheim and the team going to that Oakland Coliseum really seemed to have a bad effect on the team, but I guess that those hitting coaches really did a terrible job also.

[duncan_idaho]

If Carlos Pena would have swung at one lousy pitch and fouled it off before striking out nobody in Kansas City would even think of replacing Ned Yost.

Ned's wikipedia page says he tried a career as a taxidermist after his playing career. I think that explains pinch-hitting Carlos Pena when he was scared to death and his appendix was expanding.

I can't see how Ned won't get a new contract. IIRC, he got a 2 year deal before the 2012 season. I think he gets a 3 year deal, IMO they should pay him a little more than he deserves per year, in exchange for having team options after each year, but I doubt his agent would go for that.

Maybe the average/casual fan would feel that way. His issues are pretty far-reaching.

Carlos Pena is just one of the latest examples of flat-out awful decision-making by Yost.

Continually banishing Coleman to the minors while keeping guys like Gutierrez up is another.

Using Crow and Herrera in the second half MORE than Coleman

Sticking so doggedly with Chris Getz

Using Chris Getz in the leadoff spot

Using Tim Collins like he's a lefty specialist when his career sample shows he is far more effective against RHP pitching (this particularly murdered KC against Cleveland in a few different series)

Resistance to new baseball thought (which is why you see things like 2nd inning sacrifice bunts, using bad hitters in the 2 spot because they're fast and can bunt, etc).

He's not awful, but he's not good or even average overally, really. Ultimately, it's an inexact science, measuring managers performances. To use WAR terminology, Yost would be slightly below replacement-level, in my opinion.

That's still better than anything KC has had in ages, but not good enough to get it done unless he's given a MUCH better team to manage.

[Great Expectations]

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

Keeping them together through that stretch and turning the momentum around is his wizardry.


Hire Charlie Manuel

[KCUnited]

Let's not forgot his masterful move to fire Seitzer to hit more home runs.

[Lex Luthor]

Let's not forgot his masterful move to fire Seitzer to hit more home runs.
That was obviously a major blunder. But I think they're probably better off now with Pedro Grifol than they would be with Seitzer. Seitzer did a great job with Alcides Escobar, but the big guns (Hosmer and Moose) obviously weren't getting the right kind of help from him.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

I didn't see that, you getting ridiculed, but sticking up for him is worthy of it most of the time.

Yost is a below average MLB manager. Now, that only costs 1-2 games on the whole over the course of a season

Yost cost the Royals way, way more than 2 games this season.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Interesting. First winning season in 10 years. You have to go back another 10 years before that. You guys are talking like they should have won the whole thing. They had 2 starting pitchers with an ERA sub 4.0. Pretty good pen which overall makes the club first in runs against in the AL, but the teams ahead in your division are 2 and 3. They had to move 36 year old Bruce Chen from the pen despite that he had an ERA around 2.0 at the time. Your winningest pitcher is giving up more than 10 hits/9 inn.

One player with 20 home runs who also has 135 Ks. You have one starter with a SLG over .450 and that is just barely. 11th in the AL in runs. 2B was a disaster zone until you traded for one in mid August.

Sounds like he was making chicken salad with chicken shit.

Yost prolongs the existence of chicken shit when there are better options available.

If Francouer is chicken shit, replace him with Lough sooner. No one could possibly be worse.

If Getz/Johnson are chicken shit, give Giavotella or Falu a chance (or trade for somebody sooner than they traded for Bonafacio). For some reason, Giavotella and Falu get about 6 at-bats per year to prove themselves, and if they do nothing, they go back to the minors. Yet guys like Getz fail for years and years and keep getting playing time.

If Crow/Herrera are chicken shit in clutch situations, LET LOUIS COLEMAN PITCH. WHY THE HELL DOES LOUIS COLEMAN NEVER PITCH?

If Davies is chicken shit, replace him with Duffy/Ventura earlier in the year. This is the single most baffling move of the season to me, and the one that in the long run cost the Royals the most. If it's June or July and you see Davies sitting there with a 5.50 ERA, try someone else. Davies lost way too many games that could have been won with a decent starter, and that was ultimately the biggest failure this season. If Duffy or Ventura joins the rotation in June, I think we're looking at a playoff team here.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Royals&amp;src=hash">#Royals</a> GM Dayton Moore says he wants manager Ned Yost back next year but the two haven&#39;t yet discussed a deal. More soon at kansascity,com.</p>&mdash; Bob Dutton (@Royals_Report) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals_Report/statuses/383021363713552384">September 26, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Nightfyre]

Now we need to fire DM before he does something stupid like re-sign Yost.

[Prison Bitch]

Nobody can possibly ascertain what Yost "cost" us this year. But we have a good model to estimate what Dos Fatboys (Butler and Moose in case that was not obvious) cost us by dropping their HR total from 49 to 25 this year. 4 full wins.


The math is simple: HR are worth 1.7 runs. 24 more HR would've equaled 41 additional runs. Fangraphs pegs 1 WAR at 9.4 runs this season. Divide the total and you see the Slobs singlehandedly ruined this team and knocked us out of a WC tie.

http://www.camdencrazies.com/2011-articles/february/war-primer.html

[Deberg_1990]

I highly doubt they fire him. Looks like they will win 85-86 games. Isn't that our best record in 20+ years?

[kcjayhawks5]

Yeah, let's keep the guy. He's a huge reason why we will miss out on the playoffs this year...but hey we finally will finish above .500!!!

SMH

[siberian khatru]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/09/25/4508312/royals-gm-dayton-moore-says-he.html

Royals G.M. Dayton Moore says he wants to retain manager Ned Yost

BY BOB DUTTON
The Kansas City Star

SEATTLE — While negotiations remain on the horizon, Royals general manager Dayton Moore left no doubt Wednesday afternoon that he wants to retain Ned Yost as the club’s manager.


While negotiations remain on the horizon, Royals general manager Dayton Moore left no doubt Wednesday afternoon that he wants to retain Ned Yost (right) as the club’s manager. “… Ned has done a terrific job, and I definitely want him back,” Moore said.

“We’ll sit down and talk about it.”

“Ned and I made an advance decision a month or so ago that anything we would discuss would be after the season, and we’ve held to that,” Moore said.

“But Ned has done a terrific job, and I definitely want him back. We’ll sit down and talk about it. Contractually, Ned’s up, and we’re going to work together” to negotiate a new deal.

“It goes without saying that I want him back.”

Moore’s comments came before Wednesday’s game against the Seattle Mariners at Safeco Field. The Royals entered that game trailing Cleveland by four games, with five games left, in the race for the final American League wild-card spot.

Negotiations between Moore and Yost could commence this weekend in Chicago if and when the Royals are mathematically eliminated from postseason contention.

“Right now, mathematically, we’re still in this,” Moore said. “A lot of things have to fall our way, but we’ll discuss it at the appropriate time. You certainly want to have it settled as soon as you can.”

Yost confirmed on several occasions that he wants to return, but industry sources indicate he might have opportunities to manage elsewhere if he fails to reach a new agreement with the Royals.

Moore’s support is a crucial factor. Royals owner David Glass said last week the decision on whether to retain Yost rests solely with Moore.

“Whatever happens with Ned is up to Dayton,” Glass said. “That’s his call. I like them both. I think both of them are doing a really good job.”

Moore’s contract runs through 2014, which could be a hurdle in talks to retain Yost. It’s rare that a manager’s contract extends for a longer period than the general manager.

Glass indicated an extension for Moore is possible.

“We’re all in this together,” Glass said. “Dayton is a part of the family. I think he’s done a really good job. I think Ned has done a good job.”

Yost, 59, served as Milwaukee’s manager from 2002-08 and replaced Trey Hillman as Royals manager on May 13, 2010 with a contract that initially lasted only through that season.

A two-year extension, announced July 31, 2010, included a club option for 2013. The Royals exercised that option on Feb. 14, 2012.

[stonedstooge]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/09/25/4508312/royals-gm-dayton-moore-says-he.html

Royals G.M. Dayton Moore says he wants to retain manager Ned Yost

BY BOB DUTTON
The Kansas City Star

SEATTLE — While negotiations remain on the horizon, Royals general manager Dayton Moore left no doubt Wednesday afternoon that he wants to retain Ned Yost as the club’s manager.


While negotiations remain on the horizon, Royals general manager Dayton Moore left no doubt Wednesday afternoon that he wants to retain Ned Yost (right) as the club’s manager. “… Ned has done a terrific job, and I definitely want him back,” Moore said.

“We’ll sit down and talk about it.”

“Ned and I made an advance decision a month or so ago that anything we would discuss would be after the season, and we’ve held to that,” Moore said.

“But Ned has done a terrific job, and I definitely want him back. We’ll sit down and talk about it. Contractually, Ned’s up, and we’re going to work together” to negotiate a new deal.

“It goes without saying that I want him back.”

Moore’s comments came before Wednesday’s game against the Seattle Mariners at Safeco Field. The Royals entered that game trailing Cleveland by four games, with five games left, in the race for the final American League wild-card spot.

Negotiations between Moore and Yost could commence this weekend in Chicago if and when the Royals are mathematically eliminated from postseason contention.

“Right now, mathematically, we’re still in this,” Moore said. “A lot of things have to fall our way, but we’ll discuss it at the appropriate time. You certainly want to have it settled as soon as you can.”

Yost confirmed on several occasions that he wants to return, but industry sources indicate he might have opportunities to manage elsewhere if he fails to reach a new agreement with the Royals.

Moore’s support is a crucial factor. Royals owner David Glass said last week the decision on whether to retain Yost rests solely with Moore.

“Whatever happens with Ned is up to Dayton,” Glass said. “That’s his call. I like them both. I think both of them are doing a really good job.”

Moore’s contract runs through 2014, which could be a hurdle in talks to retain Yost. It’s rare that a manager’s contract extends for a longer period than the general manager.

Glass indicated an extension for Moore is possible.

“We’re all in this together,” Glass said. “Dayton is a part of the family. I think he’s done a really good job. I think Ned has done a good job.”

Yost, 59, served as Milwaukee’s manager from 2002-08 and replaced Trey Hillman as Royals manager on May 13, 2010 with a contract that initially lasted only through that season.

A two-year extension, announced July 31, 2010, included a club option for 2013. The Royals exercised that option on Feb. 14, 2012.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[GloryDayz]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/09/25/4508312/royals-gm-dayton-moore-says-he.html

Royals G.M. Dayton Moore says he wants to retain manager Ned Yost

.

:spock:ROFL:spock:ROFL:spock:ROFL:huh::deevee::huh::deevee::eek::grr::eek::grr::cuss::banghead::cuss ::fire::lame::sulk::bolt:

[dallaschiefsfan]

Amazing that "true fans" exist in the Royals world as well. Yost is horrible. I'm not really aware of a serious baseball analyst that thinks Yost is even a league average manager. But keep believing he has the magic or something for this year's achievement, which was obviously about starting pitching, and all-world bullpen and an all-world defense.

Any turn-around after May was orchestrated by a combination of a few players starting to do the right things offensively and the influence that Brett had with several of those players. Even Yost himself said Brett came and got their heads right about winning and having a short memory. Really Ned? I thought that was YOUR job. Ned is just a nice encourager...but is lost for answers when a team needs jerked out of a funk - he'll always be that way. He doesn't have "it".

If a team is humming and doesn't hit a snag, he's your next Jim Frey. If a team slumps, you want Dick Howser. Ned Yost is far more a Jim Frey than a Dick Howser. Hell, he's not even a Hal McRae or Buddy Bell. He's better than Trey Hillman and Tony Muser and thats' about it.

[Prison Bitch]

You obviously have repressed the Buddy Bell years. When your manager says "never say it can't get worse", you know you hired the wrong guy.

[Ace Gunner]

I highly doubt they fire him. Looks like they will win 85-86 games. Isn't that our best record in 20+ years?

I don't think they'll fire him either. They are gelling really. But they need a few guys that can swing.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Buddy Bell was terrible. Ned Yost is worse because he's been incompetent with a good a decent team. We have no idea how bad or close to average bell might have been with a decent team.

[Bambi]

You obviously have repressed the Buddy Bell years. When your manager says "never say it can't get worse", you know you hired the wrong guy.

Clinkscale said the other day he would rather have Buddy Bell.

Then again Clinkscale always hates everything so who knows if that was a real opinion.

Are there better managers than Yost? Of course. Would they come to KC...? errrr, not so sure

[Lex Luthor]

After watching the Royals feeble effort the last two nights, I'd just like to apologize to everyone for this stupid fucking thread.

[salame]

http://media.celebremix.com/5/mediaFiles/remix/4/1999.jpg

[BlackHelicopters]

Zero runs two nights in a row. Team is officially done and has officially quit. Wouldn't be shocked if the ChiSux sweep us.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Apology accepted. Now...for those living in KC, start sitting at the K with signs saying "Let Yost Go!" Do your part, KC residents. The rest of us are counting on you to make an uproar over DM's latest comments. Ridiculous that we're this close and we would hire that blockhead back to influence this team for another year.

[Prison Bitch]

Are there better managers than Yost? Of course. Would they come to KC...? errrr, not so sure

Who are they? Honest question, I'd be curious to know who's better than Yost. I'm not saying there aren't any but I'm just asking for proof of it.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Girardi is a free agent manager this off-season. Charlie Manuel (old, I know). Sciossia or his GM will be gone - not convinced of which at this point. I'm intrigued by Pedro Grifol and his reputation as a rising star in the baseball world, but not wanting to try a new guy.

For those that would say Girardi isn't coming here, you're just working off of old-news. The Royals aren't a laughing stock. Smart manager candidates that have watched Ned piss away opportunities and mishandle the team during struggling times are just arrogant enough to show they can do what others haven't done in KC. The young talent is extremely untapped and most guys recognize that and probably think they can fix it.

Show any of these guys the $$$ and they'll come. Now will Glass hand out Andy Reid type contracts? I actually doubt that...but he's surprised me before.

[ChiTown]

Apology accepted. Now...for those living in KC, start sitting at the K with signs saying "Let Yost Go!" Do your part, KC residents. The rest of us are counting on you to make an uproar over DM's latest comments. Ridiculous that we're this close and we would hire that blockhead back to influence this team for another year.

Uh, shall we sit in the stands with no home games left? :evil:

[dallaschiefsfan]

I was thinking parking lot near the business office entrance...but sure...break into the stadium. I'm sure that will get someone's attention.

[duncan_idaho]

Clinkscale said the other day he would rather have Buddy Bell.

Then again Clinkscale always hates everything so who knows if that was a real opinion.

Are there better managers than Yost? Of course. Would they come to KC...? errrr, not so sure

Charlie Manuel is better than Yost - by a mile - and Buster Olney is certain he would go to KC if the Royals came calling. (Manuel is similar to Yost in some regards - good motivator who excels with young players - but is much better tactically).

There's a slim chance Joe Girardi will be available, and if he is, he should be target No. 1.

Bud Black in San Diego is another guy who could be out and would be a great candidate.

And... this is outside the box, and I'm not sure a rookie skipper is the best guy to tab for this team next year, but I am intrigued by Jason Giambi.

Guy could be a real star manager. As a star player, he would command respect in the clubhouse (not quite on George Brett level, but similar). And he is not likely to be tied to the extreme old school (bunts/speed guys who can't hit or get on base in the 2 spot, over-reliance on shitty grinders like Getz, etc) style of managing.

I also think Pedro Grifol would get a look. Everything about him screams future star, the team already respects and trusts him, etc.

[CaliforniaChief]

I suppose it would be fitting for another long-term Philadelphia pariah to come to KC to lead the Royals to glory.

I just don't see GMDM letting Yost go. Yeah, I know about posturing, and I know that there's a chance that Yost might want more years than GMDM is willing to give him, but I'd be shocked if he's not retained.

[Nightfyre]

Send Ned packing. Don't worry GMDM, he will catch on in Seattle. I'm sure he'll be a hit with their Japanese following.

[CaliforniaChief]

With that said, it's nice to know that this would probably be the most attractive job for managers on the market.

-Bud Black has Royals history, and has done good things with an atrocious roster.

-I'm fine with Giambi, but would probably wonder all year if he shouldn't just grab a bat and hit sometimes.

-I'd also be fine with Manuel (Charlie).

-I would imagine that if Girardi is cut lose, he'll take a straight line to Chicago to run the Cubs.

-Wally Backman would be entertaining!

[duncan_idaho]

I suppose it would be fitting for another long-term Philadelphia pariah to come to KC to lead the Royals to glory.

I just don't see GMDM letting Yost go. Yeah, I know about posturing, and I know that there's a chance that Yost might want more years than GMDM is willing to give him, but I'd be shocked if he's not retained.

The impression I've seen is that Manuel is low-hanging fruit. He's out there, he's available, he wants to be in KC and would take the job if offered.

I think they CAN do better. Depends on who is actually out there.

[Great Expectations]

Yost prolongs the existence of chicken shit when there are better options available.

If Francouer is chicken shit, replace him with Lough sooner. No one could possibly be worse.

If Getz/Johnson are chicken shit, give Giavotella or Falu a chance (or trade for somebody sooner than they traded for Bonafacio). For some reason, Giavotella and Falu get about 6 at-bats per year to prove themselves, and if they do nothing, they go back to the minors. Yet guys like Getz fail for years and years and keep getting playing time.

If Crow/Herrera are chicken shit in clutch situations, LET LOUIS COLEMAN PITCH. WHY THE HELL DOES LOUIS COLEMAN NEVER PITCH?

If Davies is chicken shit, replace him with Duffy/Ventura earlier in the year. This is the single most baffling move of the season to me, and the one that in the long run cost the Royals the most. If it's June or July and you see Davies sitting there with a 5.50 ERA, try someone else. Davies lost way too many games that could have been won with a decent starter, and that was ultimately the biggest failure this season. If Duffy or Ventura joins the rotation in June, I think we're looking at a playoff team here.

How much of this is Yost? I think DM deserves a lot of criticism for not making these changes.

[duncan_idaho]

With that said, it's nice to know that this would probably be the most attractive job for managers on the market.

-Bud Black has Royals history, and has done good things with an atrocious roster.

-I'm fine with Giambi, but would probably wonder all year if he shouldn't just grab a bat and hit sometimes.

-I'd also be fine with Manuel (Charlie).

-I would imagine that if Girardi is cut lose, he'll take a straight line to Chicago to run the Cubs.

-Wally Backman would be entertaining!

Well, if Girardi is on the market, that means the Yankees job is open. I imagine that will be the most attractive job out there.

But your point remains... KC job is much more attractive than it has been at any time since Howser left.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Well, if Girardi is on the market, that means the Yankees job is open. I imagine that will be the most attractive job out there.

But your point remains... KC job is much more attractive than it has been at any time since Howser left.

Yankees are firmly committed to getting under the luxury tax number. They won't retain both Granderson AND Cano. They can't be serious FA shoppers due to this commitment. Unless someone just wants to be in the limelights of New York, it's not an attractive "winning baseball" job for the next few years. Yankees are going to have a rough 2-3 years, I'm guessing. That makes me happy.

[siberian khatru]

Doesn't a lot of this hang on DM's contract? He's signed through 2014.

Will DM be allowed to sign a manager to a multi-year deal if he himself doesn't have one? Will a "name" manager sign here if he doesn't know DM's future past 2014? And I can't believe ANYONE would sign for just one year. Would even Ned sign a one-year contract, or would he decline and go on the open market?


So Glass has to extend DM first, right? And frankly, I don't want THAT. I think DM should first show how he handles this offseason and how things go to start off 2014. It would be a mistake to call 2013 "mission accomplished" and reward DM when he's got to prove 1) it's not a fluke, and 2) he knows how to take the team to the next level. You extend DM 3-5 years now and then watch the team regress to 79 wins in 2014 and then Shields walks, well what exactly have you achieved? Five more losing seasons and looking back at 2013 and saying "Wow, remember how fun that was, kinda sorta almost making a one-game wild-card playoff?"

[duncan_idaho]

Doesn't a lot of this hang on DM's contract? He's signed through 2014.

Will DM be allowed to sign a manager to a multi-year deal if he himself doesn't have one? Will a "name" manager sign here if he doesn't know DM's future past 2014? And I can't believe ANYONE would sign for just one year. Would even Ned sign a one-year contract, or would he decline and go on the open market?


So Glass has to extend DM first, right? And frankly, I don't want THAT. I think DM should first show how he handles this offseason and how things go to start off 2014. It would be a mistake to call 2013 "mission accomplished" and reward DM when he's got to prove 1) it's not a fluke, and 2) he knows how to take the team to the next level. You extend DM 3-5 years now and then watch the team regress to 79 wins in 2014 and then Shields walks, well what exactly have you achieved? Five more losing seasons and looking back at 2013 and saying "Wow, remember how fun that was, kinda sorta almost making a one-game wild-card playoff?"

GOod points all.

We're likely looking at Ned next year, or POSSIBLY Pedro Grifol.

I vote for Pedro.

[BlackHelicopters]

More Ned? Ice pick please.

[siberian khatru]

GOod points all.

We're likely looking at Ned next year, or POSSIBLY Pedro Grifol.

I vote for Pedro.

My worst fear is Glass says "We're on the right track" and extends Moore, who extends Ned, and then tells Moore he can add one player this offseason. Moore says no problem, I fully expect all the good of 2013 to continue and all the bad to improve, and Nelson Cruz will put us over the top.

And then its 79-83 and we're stuck with these fucksticks for another 3 years.

[siberian khatru]

And yes, that is me being an irascible pessimist.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Doesn't a lot of this hang on DM's contract? He's signed through 2014.

Will DM be allowed to sign a manager to a multi-year deal if he himself doesn't have one? Will a "name" manager sign here if he doesn't know DM's future past 2014? And I can't believe ANYONE would sign for just one year. Would even Ned sign a one-year contract, or would he decline and go on the open market?


So Glass has to extend DM first, right? And frankly, I don't want THAT. I think DM should first show how he handles this offseason and how things go to start off 2014. It would be a mistake to call 2013 "mission accomplished" and reward DM when he's got to prove 1) it's not a fluke, and 2) he knows how to take the team to the next level. You extend DM 3-5 years now and then watch the team regress to 79 wins in 2014 and then Shields walks, well what exactly have you achieved? Five more losing seasons and looking back at 2013 and saying "Wow, remember how fun that was, kinda sorta almost making a one-game wild-card playoff?"

DM will get extended 2 years minimum within the next few weeks or after the WS. Bank it.

[Prison Bitch]

How much of this is Yost? I think DM deserves a lot of criticism for not making these changes.

Don't bother, people are obsessed with Ned Yost. It's a weird obsession they have. Everyone with a brain knows that Dayton has a huge impact on who plays and when they play. And if he didn't want Ned playing Frenchy or Getz he'd have DFA'd them. The GM always has the final say on who plays because he can just move guys unilaterally.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Don't bother, people are obsessed with Ned Yost. It's a weird obsession they have. Everyone with a brain knows that Dayton has a huge impact on who plays and when they play. And if he didn't want Ned playing Frenchy or Getz he'd have DFA'd them. The GM always has the final say on who plays because he can just move guys unilaterally.

Completely untrue. DM can overrule Ned of course. But DM is known as a "collaborative" GM. If his coach wants something, he usually gets what his coach wants. If his coach wants a guy a guy from AAA, DM will rarely refuse him. If Ned wants to bat Getz 2nd, DM lets him. He's as hand-off as you can get for a GM during the season.

Now...I WISH he were more proactive, but he's not. DM should have put a stop to Ned's fascination with certain players long before he did. If DM has a flaw, it isn't hat he's pulling the strings, but that he's too loyal (everyone knows this in baseball), too compliant and won't do his job and make the hard decisions. If he should be fired for anything, it's for that.

[siberian khatru]

Completely untrue. DM can overrule Ned of course. But DM is known as a "collaborative" GM. If his coach wants something, he usually gets what his coach wants. If his coach wants a guy a guy from AAA, DM will rarely refuse him. If Ned wants to bat Getz 2nd, DM lets him. He's as hand-off as you can get for a GM during the season.

Now...I WISH he were more proactive, but he's not. DM should have put a stop to Ned's fascination with certain players long before he did. If DM has a flaw, it isn't hat he's pulling the strings, but that he's too loyal (everyone knows this in baseball), too compliant and won't do his job and make the hard decisions. If he should be fired for anything, it's for that.

Unless DM believes the same things Ned does (Getz, Frenchy, bunting a man to 3B in the first inning, etc.). Maybe it's not that DM "let's him," it's that DM agrees with him.

[Prison Bitch]

Completely untrue. DM can overrule Ned of course. But DM is known as a "collaborative" GM. If his coach wants something, he usually gets what his coach wants. If his coach wants a guy a guy from AAA, DM will rarely refuse him. If Ned wants to bat Getz 2nd, DM lets him. He's as hand-off as you can get for a GM during the season.

Now...I WISH he were more proactive, but he's not. DM should have put a stop to Ned's fascination with certain players long before he did. If DM has a flaw, it isn't hat he's pulling the strings, but that he's too loyal (everyone knows this in baseball), too compliant and won't do his job and make the hard decisions. If he should be fired for anything, it's for that.

None of what you say is proveable.

[dallaschiefsfan]

None of what you say is proveable.

None of what YOU say is provable (see what I did there?). Stop with discussion-stopping cliches.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Unless DM believes the same things Ned does (Getz, Frenchy, bunting a man to 3B in the first inning, etc.). Maybe it's not that DM "let's him," it's that DM agrees with him.

This is absolutely possible. What is NOT true is that DM is some sort of puppet master and Yost is the being held back by his bungling GM. History is simply not on the side of such an argument. Ned was fired with the Brewers in FIRST F-ing place. Let that sink in.

[Prison Bitch]

None of what YOU say is provable (see what I did there?). Stop with discussion-stopping cliches.

Well, I was asking for proof Yost is a bad manager. I still haven't received it. I know for a fact Dayton has full control over player personnel because every GM in the league has it. You're throwing out baseless theories you can't prove.

[duncan_idaho]

My worst fear is Glass says "We're on the right track" and extends Moore, who extends Ned, and then tells Moore he can add one player this offseason. Moore says no problem, I fully expect all the good of 2013 to continue and all the bad to improve, and Nelson Cruz will put us over the top.

And then its 79-83 and we're stuck with these ****sticks for another 3 years.

That would suck.

1) If all they add is Nelson Cruz, the offense is better (unless he sucks without roids). And the defense is hurt substantially.

If they're going to sacrifice RF defense for offense, I'd much rather see them go Carlos Beltran over Cruz. Defensive hit is about the same (if Beltran remains as below-average as he has been this year), but Beltran is a much more consistent and proven offensive player.

2) I assume that would mean they stick with internal pitching options. So basically, Shields, Guthrie and the kids. Scary way to go into a season.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Well, I was asking for proof Yost is a bad manager. I still haven't received it. I know for a fact Dayton has full control over player personnel because every GM in the league has it. You're throwing out baseless theories you can't prove.

DM has been forthright in all his interviews about how he handles personnel matters in a collaborative manner, regardless of what his job's "powers" are. If you don't want to take his words at face value, then you are the one stepping into the world of speculation.

[Prison Bitch]

DM has been forthright in all his interviews about how he handles personnel matters in a collaborative manner, regardless of what his job's "powers" are. If you don't want to take his words at face value, then you are the one stepping into the world of speculation.

Lol. What's he supposed to say: "Well, Ned has opinions but of course I hold all the power so his ideas really don't count for shit in the end." Yeah.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Lol. What's he supposed to say: "Well, Ned has opinions but of course I hold all the power so his ideas really don't count for shit in the end." Yeah.

Prove he's being disingenuous.

[Jerm]

Ned made a great decision in the bottom of the 10th inning today. If Ned hadn't had Getz pinch run for Billy, the inning would have been over before Justin Maxwell ever came to the plate.

Everybody hates Ned and wants him to be fired. I don't. He sometimes makes game-time decisions that are easy to second-guess, but you've got to give him credit: the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen. Ned deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

Not only do I think Ned won't be fired, I'm convinced he shouldn't be fired.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/gag.gif

[jettio]

After watching the Royals feeble effort the last two nights, I'd just like to apologize to everyone for this stupid ****ing thread.

Not quite sure it is the manager's fault that the players do not get enough hits to score any runs.

[WhiteWhale]

don't care about the thread

just wanted to say that i'd hit that

So would I.

With my car.

Fucking Juggalos...

[Mama Hip Rockets]

How much of this is Yost? I think DM deserves a lot of criticism for not making these changes.

Some of it is Moore's fault, yes. But Yost, even when better players are on the roster (i.e. Louis Coleman), refuses to play them.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Whether DM is a good, average or terrible as a GM is irrelevant to the OP. Yost was fired while his team was in FIRST PLACE. That happens to ZERO managers unless they are blatantly incompetent. This has all happened before and it will happen again...

Does anyone doubt this team would be better off and entrenched with a playoff spot with Francona as the manager?

[Great Expectations]

Some of it is Moore's fault, yes. But Yost, even when better players are on the roster (i.e. Louis Coleman), refuses to play them.

great point

[Lex Luthor]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/gag.gif

You're late to the party. I've already apologized for starting this thread.

I was unduly influenced by the temporary euphoria of Justin Maxwell's walkoff grand slam on Sunday. I've since come to my senses. Ned Yost is a buffoon.

[Mr. Laz]

Yost is a fine coach for a team struggling to get out of the dumpster. He's a robot ... losing doesn't make him flinch. He teaches the team to not get depressed or give up.

high floor/low ceiling kind of guy imo


Do we want to avoid losing or push to win?

As much as we have sucked i would understand just trying to avoid losing right now.

not happy, but i understand

That said, Yost cost a dozen games this year ... easy. That was enough to make the playoffs this season

How many games did is 'good,stable clubhouse win us?'

i don't know.


:shrug:

[CaliforniaChief]

That said Yost cost a dozen games this year ... easy. That's enough to make the playoffs.


A dozen games? There have been a few that I can think of, but I can't think of close to 12.

[BlackHelicopters]

A dozen games? There have been a few that I can think of, but I can't think of close to 12.

Even if we say he cost us 6, that is still playoff territory.

[J Diddy]

LMAO @ Royals fans.

Guy who's lead you to a real conversation about Royals and October in 2 decades and you're like "fire him" we're not ws champs.

[CaliforniaChief]

I've always believed that Yost's greatest strength is that he built a mental toughness into the team that kept them bouncing back. That was the first hurdle to clear.

Tactically, he's below average. Bunts too early/often, leaving starters in too long. The only thing he seemed to have an eye for are hit and run opportunities.

[Prison Bitch]

A dozen games? There have been a few that I can think of, but I can't think of close to 12.

Why not 23? I say it's 23. My guess is as good as yours, and as supported by evidence. Maybe it was 26. Sure, why not?

[ChiTown]

LMAO @ Royals fans.

Guy who's lead you to a real conversation about Royals and September in 2 decades and you're like "fire him" we're still not in the playoffs.

FYP

HAI GAIS!!!!! WE'RE OVER .500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111 LET'S PARTY LIKE IT'S 1985!