PDA

View Full Version : Football FRONTLINE "League of Denial"


ShowtimeSBMVP
10-08-2013, 07:39 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8OWnHuKoPjU?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Anyone watching this making the NFL look bad.

tk13
10-08-2013, 07:39 PM
Anyone watching the concussion documentary on PBS? The story they just told about Troy Aikman was insane. After winning the NFC title one year, he was so concussed he was taken to the hospital and sat in the darkness. His agent showed up and Aikman asked him where he was. His agent had to explain he was in the hospital, that they had just played a game against the 49ers, and that they won the game and were going to the Super Bowl. They celebrated. A few minutes later, Aikman had forgotten everything and asked his agent the same questions again. They celebrated getting to the Super Bowl. Then a little bit later, Aikman asked the same questions again. Brutal.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-08-2013, 07:39 PM
Which was the inspiration for Jerry Maguire.

ShowtimeSBMVP
10-08-2013, 07:41 PM
Paul Tagliabue was a Joke.

Fat Elvis
10-08-2013, 07:42 PM
Which was the inspiration for Jerry Maguire.

Troy Aikman became a scientologist after getting his brain smashed?

J Diddy
10-08-2013, 07:47 PM
Which was the inspiration for Jerry Maguire.

seriously?

digger
10-08-2013, 07:47 PM
"League of the formally Q'd"

notorious
10-08-2013, 07:47 PM
Let's be honest, Aikman really wasn't very smart to begin with.

digger
10-08-2013, 07:48 PM
"League of the formally Q'd"

Deberg_1990
10-08-2013, 07:48 PM
True gladiator

Rausch
10-08-2013, 07:49 PM
Let's be honest, Aikman really wasn't very smart to begin with.

Yeah, he was.

RealSNR
10-08-2013, 07:50 PM
Let's be honest, Aikman really wasn't very smart to begin with.

Heh. True.

LiveSteam
10-08-2013, 07:50 PM
Let's be honest, Aikman really wasn't very smart to begin with.

LMAO

eDave
10-08-2013, 07:52 PM
So which one is the Q? You've posted this to both. So by going by your rules they cancel each other out and I would have never seen this post. Dick.

In58men
10-08-2013, 07:52 PM
All jokes aside, that's truly some scary shit.

tk13
10-08-2013, 07:58 PM
They are killing Ira Casson. He was the doctor put in charge of the NFL head injury panel. They have him on camera multiple times denying concussions cause long term problems. I wonder if some of these players that settled the lawsuit are rethinking their strategy right now.

digger
10-08-2013, 07:59 PM
So which one is the Q? You've posted this to both. So by going by your rules they cancel each other out and I would have never seen this post. Dick. Lighten up.

Rausch
10-08-2013, 08:01 PM
Lighten up.

To be expected...

Hammock Parties
10-08-2013, 08:03 PM
One time after Aikman got smashed they asked him where he was.

He thought he was in Henrietta, OK.

Direckshun
10-08-2013, 08:04 PM
I'm watching.

This is the reason I almost left the sport altogether last year.

notorious
10-08-2013, 08:04 PM
I'm watching.

This is the reason I almost left the sport altogether last year.

You are going to stop playing football?!


Noooooooooooooo!!!!!

Ace Gunner
10-08-2013, 08:05 PM
Paul Tagliabue was a Joke lawyer.

fyp

DaneMcCloud
10-08-2013, 08:06 PM
I'm watching.

This is the reason I almost left the sport altogether last year.
Not surprising that you'd quit on your team

Ace Gunner
10-08-2013, 08:06 PM
One time after Aikman got smashed they asked him where he was.

He thought he was in Henrietta, OK.

good!!
(NYG fan)

cosmo20002
10-08-2013, 08:07 PM
Paul Tagliabue was a Joke.

Everybody sucks at everything!

OnTheWarpath15
10-08-2013, 08:19 PM
I just finished the first five chapters of the book that was released today.

Most of it covers the story of Mike Webster. Brutal stuff.

OnTheWarpath15
10-08-2013, 08:20 PM
But hey, these guys make millions, so fuck them. /CP

notorious
10-08-2013, 08:22 PM
As long as he doesn't forget where his millions are. /one post too late

Titty Meat
10-08-2013, 08:35 PM
I'm watching this its interesting for sure but its kind of a "no shit" thing.

tk13
10-08-2013, 08:39 PM
Worse than the NFL players are the kids who had brain damage. The guy from the NFL who privately met with the original doctor basically said as much. If parents start believing football is a very dangerous sport it's going to hurt the game.

MOhillbilly
10-08-2013, 08:41 PM
Anyone watching the concussion documentary on PBS? The story they just told about Troy Aikman was insane. After winning the NFC title one year, he was so concussed he was taken to the hospital and sat in the darkness. His agent showed up and Aikman asked him where he was. His agent had to explain he was in the hospital, that they had just played a game against the 49ers, and that they won the game and were going to the Super Bowl. They celebrated. A few minutes later, Aikman had forgotten everything and asked his agent the same questions again. They celebrated getting to the Super Bowl. Then a little bit later, Aikman asked the same questions again. Brutal.

my kids ask the same questions 47 times a day.

tk13
10-08-2013, 08:42 PM
The other funny thing is the people who all openly wonder whether steroid use in football could cause this. It's kind of glossed over like an afterthought.

Titty Meat
10-08-2013, 08:48 PM
The other funny thing is the people who all openly wonder whether steroid use in football could cause this. It's kind of glossed over like an afterthought.

Indeed. I'm also wondering how many of these guys who killed themselves were in financial distress. We know Seau and Belcher were.

PunkinDrublic
10-08-2013, 08:51 PM
I blame reading the posts in the DC forum for my long term brain damage.

siberian khatru
10-08-2013, 08:53 PM
Yeah, I've been watching this.

Brando
10-08-2013, 09:36 PM
my kids ask the same questions 47 times a day.

Bwahahahaha very nice sir

Rausch
10-08-2013, 09:41 PM
The other funny thing is the people who all openly wonder whether steroid use in football could cause this. It's kind of glossed over like an afterthought.

The NFL pretends to give a fuck about steroids/HGH...

Deberg_1990
10-08-2013, 09:45 PM
parents start believing football is a very dangerous sport it's going to hurt the game.

And this is when Soccer will make its move to dominate the US sports scene.

Rausch
10-08-2013, 09:46 PM
And this is when Soccer will make its move to dominate the US sports scene.

Eh..............probably not.

ChiefsCountry
10-08-2013, 09:50 PM
But hey, these guys make millions, so **** them. /CP

Every way to make quick big bucks comes with major risks involved.

Deberg_1990
10-08-2013, 09:52 PM
No, football will never be in any sort of serious danger. It provides too many opportunities for a lot of impoverished kids at many levels.

Brock
10-08-2013, 09:55 PM
I'm watching.

This is the reason I almost left the sport altogether last year.

"Left the sport". LMAO

jAZ
10-08-2013, 10:07 PM
No, football will never be in any sort of serious danger. It provides too many opportunities for a lot of impoverished kids at many levels.

The NFL itself seems to disagree.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/league-of-denial-frontline-nfl-cte-concussion-clip-review.html

Ultimately, though, the threat to the NFL won't come from squeamish fans. It will come from a growing scientific body of evidence of the risk of playing football at any age, and from the parents who become increasingly aware of that risk. The NFL fully understands the danger this would pose. In one scene in League of Denial, neuropathologist Bennet Omalu, the first doctor to find CTE in the brain of a football player who had killed himself, recounts a private meeting he had with an NFL doctor.

"The NFL doctor at some point said to me, 'Bennet, do you know the implications of what you're doing?" Omalu replied that he did, but that the doctor should go ahead and tell him what he thinks the implications are. "He said, 'If 10 percent of mothers in this country would begin to perceive football as a dangerous sport, that is the end of football.'"

Quesadilla Joe
10-08-2013, 10:12 PM
If you missed it you can watch it here.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/

Rausch
10-08-2013, 10:13 PM
The NFL itself seems to disagree.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/league-of-denial-frontline-nfl-cte-concussion-clip-review.html

Smoking is more dangerous...

Demonpenz
10-08-2013, 10:17 PM
Flag football and soccer will be what comes next.

jAZ
10-08-2013, 10:24 PM
Smoking is more dangerous...

Not for the future of the NFL.

Titty Meat
10-09-2013, 12:55 AM
"Left the sport". LMAO

Yeah that guy is a real fucking yuppie

DaneMcCloud
10-09-2013, 01:06 AM
But hey, these guys make millions, so fuck them. /CP

Jadevon Clowney is protecting his millions by being a cunt

/SaulGood

DaneMcCloud
10-09-2013, 01:08 AM
No, football will never be in any sort of serious danger. It provides too many opportunities for a lot of impoverished kids at many levels.

Rule and equipment changes are necessary

DaneMcCloud
10-09-2013, 01:11 AM
Smoking is more dangerous...

Anyone can smoke.

Only about 1,700 earn a living in the NFL each year

DaneMcCloud
10-09-2013, 01:12 AM
Yeah that guy is a real fucking yuppie

Yuppie? In Springfield, Mo?

LMAO

Discuss Thrower
10-09-2013, 01:14 AM
Rule and equipment changes are necessary

Beyond making people play with flags I don't see how there are any changes that can applied without banning the sport all together, Dane.

mikey23545
10-09-2013, 01:22 AM
my kids ask the same questions 47 times a day.

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?......

Titty Meat
10-09-2013, 01:26 AM
Yuppie? In Springfield, Mo?

LMAO

No way that guy is from Springfield.

Discuss Thrower
10-09-2013, 01:35 AM
No way that guy is from Springfield.

There are a lot of colleges and high schools here..

Discuss Thrower
10-09-2013, 01:49 AM
And this is when Soccer will make its move to dominate the US sports scene.

It would be basketball if anything.

New World Order
10-09-2013, 01:55 AM
Wow, Roger Goodell really is an asshole.

BigCatDaddy
10-09-2013, 06:30 AM
The other funny thing is the people who all openly wonder whether steroid use in football could cause this. It's kind of glossed over like an afterthought.

In what way are you referring that is causes it? Are you referring to the bigger/stronger guys colliding?

Titty Meat
10-09-2013, 07:11 AM
There are a lot of colleges and high schools here..

And a bass pro shop

Kerberos
10-09-2013, 10:08 AM
http://bit.ly/brain-on-football

This is pretty convincing that the NFL knew about this and did NOTHING till their hand was forced.

gblowfish
10-09-2013, 10:16 AM
If helmets were outlawed there'd be fewer concussions. Maybe more broken noses and teeth, but fewer concussions.

BigCatDaddy
10-09-2013, 10:28 AM
If helmets were outlawed there'd be fewer concussions. Maybe more broken noses and teeth, but fewer concussions.

Maybe a few, but most concussions are caused by a guys head smacking into the ground. Those might end up worse than a concussion without a helmet.

InChiefsHeaven
10-09-2013, 12:06 PM
Just watched it. This is gonna signal the end. Future generations will not play, their moms won't let them.

I don't know how to feel about it. I only played until my Sophomore year in High School. I knew plenty of guys who played through that age, but I didn't really know anyone who played college or pros.

As far as the documentary, they did the best they could to paint the NFL as a bunch of bastards. The doctor saying they were all rude and sexist to her...WTF does that have to do with anything? The Congress getting involved...I hated it when it happened. More Nanny State bullshit. They should have bigger fish to fry. They did elude that there is no way to know based on their research that this happens to anyone who plays, but the opinion of those interviewed and the final conclusion was basically if you play football, you will get a life altering brain injury. Period.

I dunno. I hate this. I love the sport, played it, coached my son in it, watch it every year. How am I supposed to feel about it now?

salame
10-09-2013, 01:26 PM
Just watched it. This is gonna signal the end. Future generations will not play, their moms won't let them.

I don't know how to feel about it. I only played until my Sophomore year in High School. I knew plenty of guys who played through that age, but I didn't really know anyone who played college or pros.

As far as the documentary, they did the best they could to paint the NFL as a bunch of bastards. The doctor saying they were all rude and sexist to her...WTF does that have to do with anything? The Congress getting involved...I hated it when it happened. More Nanny State bullshit. They should have bigger fish to fry. They did elude that there is no way to know based on their research that this happens to anyone who plays, but the opinion of those interviewed and the final conclusion was basically if you play football, you will get a life altering brain injury. Period.

I dunno. I hate this. I love the sport, played it, coached my son in it, watch it every year. How am I supposed to feel about it now?

I kind of ended up feeling the same way.
I played for a long time and I was on the couch like.....damn, now I'm gonna be all fucked up. I know I had at least one concussion and I was pretty good at "ringing someones bell" I was just too pumped up to acknowledge that I was ringing my own.
I get a lot of headaches too.
:(

ShowtimeSBMVP
10-09-2013, 01:33 PM
Sporting News ‏@sportingnews 3m
Exclusive: @TroyAikman reacts to #LeagueOfDenial, says he hasn't had concussion symptoms since retiring from NFL - http://bit.ly/1bcpazM

Discuss Thrower
10-09-2013, 01:37 PM
My thoughts in general without seeing the documentary but knowing full well its implication:

Where's the outrage over the damage done to NFL atheletes from PEDs? What about the cost of ever inflating in size linemen?

Outside of the football, how much damage has sports in general done to minorities who see a professional contract as their only means of gaining wealth instead of pursuing an education -schooled or otherwise?

What about the damage pitchers do to their arms? Catchers and their knees? Can a parent let their child play baseball when it seems that playing either of these spots will be costly down the line either monetarily or in quality of life?

Yes, there are risks involved with football just as there are risks with every day one draws a breath. Should efforts be made to prevent injuries? Yes. But where does it stop is where I want to know, because from my standpoint you can argue against almost every activity be it physical or not that will more than likely have an increased risk than doing nothing at all.

BigCatDaddy
10-09-2013, 01:38 PM
My thoughts in general without seeing the documentary but knowing full well its implication:

Where's the outrage over the damage done to NFL atheletes from PEDs? What about the cost of ever inflating in size linemen?

Outside of the football, how much damage has sports in general done to minorities who see a professional contract as their only means of gaining wealth instead of pursuing an education -schooled or otherwise?

What about the damage pitchers do to their arms? Catchers and their knees? Can a parent let their child play baseball when it seems that playing either of these spots will be costly down the line either monetarily or in quality of life?

Yes, there are risks involved with football just as there are risks with every day one draws a breath. Should efforts be made to prevent injuries? Yes. But where does it stop is where I want to know, because from my standpoint you can argue against almost every activity be it physical or not that will more than likely have an increased risk than doing nothing at all.

Your choice to be a player #GetAClue

siberian khatru
10-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Sporting News ‏@sportingnews 3m
Exclusive: @TroyAikman reacts to #LeagueOfDenial, says he hasn't had concussion symptoms since retiring from NFL - http://bit.ly/1bcpazM

I was wondering about that with both him and Steve Young.

Hammock Parties
10-09-2013, 01:54 PM
Just watched it. This is gonna signal the end. Future generations will not play, their moms won't let them.


LMAO

Too much money at stake.

Also football creates thousands of jobs across NFL, college and pro landscapes.

It's not going anywhere.

Discuss Thrower
10-09-2013, 01:56 PM
Sporting News ‏@sportingnews 3m
Exclusive: @TroyAikman reacts to #LeagueOfDenial, says he hasn't had concussion symptoms since retiring from NFL - http://bit.ly/1bcpazM

Aikman is a poster boy for how football teams should handle concussions now: take them out, hold them out until a independent physician can clear the player with the warning that they are more susceptible to concussions and CTE down the line.

Beyond that, all I think the NFL can do to ensure safety is lengthen the season with an additional bye week as well as enlarging rosters for depth. Beyond that will be rule changes that will more or less end football as we know it since this sport and it's analogue in the major rugby codes are "too dangerous" for people to participate in as they are played now.

MahiMike
10-09-2013, 03:13 PM
Just watched it. This is gonna signal the end. Future generations will not play, their moms won't let them.

I don't know how to feel about it. I only played until my Sophomore year in High School. I knew plenty of guys who played through that age, but I didn't really know anyone who played college or pros.

As far as the documentary, they did the best they could to paint the NFL as a bunch of bastards. The doctor saying they were all rude and sexist to her...WTF does that have to do with anything? The Congress getting involved...I hated it when it happened. More Nanny State bullshit. They should have bigger fish to fry. They did elude that there is no way to know based on their research that this happens to anyone who plays, but the opinion of those interviewed and the final conclusion was basically if you play football, you will get a life altering brain injury. Period.

I dunno. I hate this. I love the sport, played it, coached my son in it, watch it every year. How am I supposed to feel about it now?

Just glad my kid quit playing QB and went with golf. Looking good now.

MahiMike
10-09-2013, 03:16 PM
What I'm wondering is when the NFL is going to enforce the "tighter helmet rule". Every week you see a guy's helmet falling off with not much force. They slip them on like baseball caps. They're supposed to be really hard to knock off.

I think they should get 15 yard penalty if their helmet comes off. Second offense is disqual.

Whosurdaddy
10-09-2013, 03:54 PM
LMAO

Too much money at stake.

Also football creates thousands of jobs across NFL, college and pro landscapes.

It's not going anywhere.

Those athletes will still be around, they'll just play something else.

Marcellus
10-09-2013, 04:02 PM
Its no different that NASCAR, MMA, or any other dangerous sport.

You have to make changes to make the game safer but you will never eliminate all of the risk.

And it isn't going anywhere.

99% of the issues they are discussing happened well before upgraded equipment and rules changes.

Its like the HANS device for NASCAR changing things.

KCUnited
10-09-2013, 04:15 PM
Petro was talking about this today with Kevin Harlan and said they were broadcasting from Nill Brothers Sports (sports outfitter) in KC the other day and they said they are starting to see a decline in youth football gear sales.

He speculated the future of football to the current state of boxing where the top athletes have gone to compete in other sports.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-09-2013, 04:16 PM
99% of the issues they are discussing happened well before upgraded equipment and rules changes.

Its like the HANS device for NASCAR changing things.

Saying that the new equipment and rules changes are going to make a difference proves that you've never even read the research. In fact, it's obvious that almost no one in this thread has.

The biggest danger of football isn't the concussions. That's why Aikman and Steve Young appear well adjusted. The hundreds of subconcussive impacts are the ones that do the damage to the brain that cause CTE. The linebacker at Penn that killed himself never had a diagnosed concussion but had tau proteins all throughout his brain.

The rules changes are not going to stop OL and DL from ramming their head into something else as they drive off and to the ball, nor will it stop linebackers from slamming themselves into the hole to stop a ballcarrier.

If you want to stop guys getting KTFO'd then the rule changes will help that, but it won't help the actual cause of CTE.

KCChiefsFan88
10-09-2013, 04:38 PM
Not to get too political, but PBS' ultra-liberal, anti-business tendancies are well established.

The fact they would create a documentary so blatantly slanted against the NFL is not unexpected.

The narrative being created of all these former players existing in decrepit mental conditions because of head injuries during their playing days is completely overstated.

As an example... former Chiefs punter Louie Aguiar was one of the players involved with the concussion lawsuit against the NFL.

I'd be very curious to hear the mental ailments he claims to have now and how he links them to his playing days.

This is a money shakedown by the former players and their lawyers.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-09-2013, 04:45 PM
Not to get too political, but PBS' ultra-liberal, anti-business tendancies are well established.

The fact they would create a documentary so blatantly slanted against the NFL is not unexpected.

The narrative being created of all these former players existing in decrepit mental conditions because of head injuries during their playing days is completely overstated.

As an example... former Chiefs punter Louie Aguiar was one of the players involved with the concussion lawsuit against the NFL.

I'd be very curious to hear the mental ailments he claims to have now and how he links them to his playing days.

This is a money shakedown by the former players and their lawyers.

You're full of shit. ESPN was attached as a co-presenter to this story until they bitched out from pressure by the NFL about six weeks ago. How anti-business is the company that pays the NFL $2 billion a year to broadcast football games, the same company that is owned by fucking Disney?

They have also reported on the story extensively.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8697286/boston-university-researchers-discover-28-new-cases-chronic-brain-damage-deceased-football-players

Whosurdaddy
10-09-2013, 04:46 PM
Saying that the new equipment and rules changes are going to make a difference proves that you've never even read the research. In fact, it's obvious that almost no one in this thread has.

The biggest danger of football isn't the concussions. That's why Aikman and Steve Young appear well adjusted. The hundreds of subconcussive impacts are the ones that do the damage to the brain that cause CTE. The linebacker at Penn that killed himself never had a diagnosed concussion but had tau proteins all throughout his brain.

The rules changes are not going to stop OL and DL from ramming their head into something else as they drive off and to the ball, nor will it stop linebackers from slamming themselves into the hole to stop a ballcarrier.

If you want to stop guys getting KTFO'd then the rule changes will help that, but it won't help the actual cause of CTE.

Bingo.

Helmets I think may be part of the issue. They change how you would normally tackle a person (see rugby). They help protect against skull fractures, but cannot protect someone fully from concussions and sub-concussive forces.

Whosurdaddy
10-09-2013, 04:49 PM
Not to get too political, but PBS' ultra-liberal, anti-business tendancies are well established.

The fact they would create a documentary so blatantly slanted against the NFL is not unexpected.

The narrative being created of all these former players existing in decrepit mental conditions because of head injuries during their playing days is completely overstated.

As an example... former Chiefs punter Louie Aguiar was one of the players involved with the concussion lawsuit against the NFL.

I'd be very curious to hear the mental ailments he claims to have now and how he links them to his playing days.

This is a money shakedown by the former players and their lawyers.

I agree just look at all those people who died from cigarette smoking. What anti-buisness dickweeds.
http://noshalegasnb.ca/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Cigarette-ad.png

KCBOSS1
10-09-2013, 04:50 PM
I heard some of the backlash on ESPN radio today? Is it going to air again?

OnTheWarpath15
10-09-2013, 05:03 PM
Saying that the new equipment and rules changes are going to make a difference proves that you've never even read the research. In fact, it's obvious that almost no one in this thread has.

The biggest danger of football isn't the concussions. That's why Aikman and Steve Young appear well adjusted. The hundreds of subconcussive impacts are the ones that do the damage to the brain that cause CTE. The linebacker at Penn that killed himself never had a diagnosed concussion but had tau proteins all throughout his brain.

The rules changes are not going to stop OL and DL from ramming their head into something else as they drive off and to the ball, nor will it stop linebackers from slamming themselves into the hole to stop a ballcarrier.

If you want to stop guys getting KTFO'd then the rule changes will help that, but it won't help the actual cause of CTE.

This.

KCUnited
10-09-2013, 05:11 PM
I heard some of the backlash on ESPN radio today? Is it going to air again?

Tonight at 8:00 CDT

KCChiefsFan88
10-09-2013, 05:18 PM
I agree just look at all those people who died from cigarette smoking. What anti-buisness dickweeds.
http://noshalegasnb.ca/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Cigarette-ad.png

How many former players have died directly from head trauma caused by playing in the NFL?

To compare that to cigarette smoking where the links to death causing diseases are clear and established is laughable.

OnTheWarpath15
10-09-2013, 05:21 PM
Anyone can smoke.

Only about 1,700 earn a living in the NFL each year

This is far from just a NFL problem.

KCChiefsFan88
10-09-2013, 05:25 PM
You're full of shit. ESPN was attached as a co-presenter to this story until they bitched out from pressure by the NFL about six weeks ago. How anti-business is the company that pays the NFL $2 billion a year to broadcast football games, the same company that is owned by ****ing Disney?

They have also reported on the story extensively.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8697286/boston-university-researchers-discover-28-new-cases-chronic-brain-damage-deceased-football-players

Keyword: WAS attached.

Marcellus
10-09-2013, 05:31 PM
Saying that the new equipment and rules changes are going to make a difference proves that you've never even read the research. In fact, it's obvious that almost no one in this thread has.

The biggest danger of football isn't the concussions. That's why Aikman and Steve Young appear well adjusted. The hundreds of subconcussive impacts are the ones that do the damage to the brain that cause CTE. The linebacker at Penn that killed himself never had a diagnosed concussion but had tau proteins all throughout his brain.

The rules changes are not going to stop OL and DL from ramming their head into something else as they drive off and to the ball, nor will it stop linebackers from slamming themselves into the hole to stop a ballcarrier.

If you want to stop guys getting KTFO'd then the rule changes will help that, but it won't help the actual cause of CTE.

Ok fine but there is still assumed risk involved. Especially now that the risk is a known risk. Granted in the past it wasn't.

NASCAR drivers, Formula 1 drivers, they know driving 200mph is dangerous, it was never even needed to be explained to them.

Are we going to outlaw car racing as well?

Is the assumption football will die because parents wont let their kids play? I call bullshit on that. (not saying that is your stance)

As long as there is $ to be had, meaning there is an NFL, there will be kids wanting to play.

Its not going away.

KCChiefsFan88
10-09-2013, 05:31 PM
I just finished the first five chapters of the book that was released today.

Most of it covers the story of Mike Webster. Brutal stuff.

Mike Webster is a sad story, but more than likely football just delayed the inevitable for Webster.

Without football he would have been living in a van at age 20 instead of in his 40's.

He obviously had mental issues that the effects of playing football perhaps enhanced or made worse, but didn't cause.

Marcellus
10-09-2013, 05:31 PM
This is far from just a NFL problem.

Larger than smoking or alcohol abuse?

Titty Meat
10-09-2013, 05:32 PM
This won't end the game that's pretty reactionary to say it will.

Discuss Thrower
10-09-2013, 05:32 PM
Bingo.

Helmets I think may be part of the issue. They change how you would normally tackle a person (see rugby). They help protect against skull fractures, but cannot protect someone fully from concussions and sub-concussive forces.

Rugby has the exact same risks as football. If football goes away, so does rugby.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-09-2013, 05:33 PM
Keyword: WAS attached.

Yeah, and they pulled out for totally valid reas--derp:

You may notice some changes to our League of Denial (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/) and Concussion Watch (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/concussion-watch/) websites. From now on, at ESPN’s request, we will no longer use their logos and collaboration credit on these sites and on our upcoming film League of Denial, which investigates the NFL’s response to head injuries among football players.

We don’t normally comment on investigative projects in progress, but we regret ESPN’s decision to end a collaboration that has spanned the last 15 months and is based on the work of ESPN reporters Mark Fainaru-Wada and Steve Fainaru, as well as FRONTLINE’s own original journalism.

Over that time, we’ve enjoyed a productive partnership with ESPN’s investigative program, Outside the Lines, jointly publishing and co-branding several ground-breaking articles on our respective websites and on their broadcast. We’ve been in sync on the goals of our reporting: to present the deepest accounting so far of the league’s handling of questions around the long-term impact of concussions. This editorial partnership was similar to our many other collaborations with news organizations over the years.
ESPN’s decision will in no way affect the content, production or October release of FRONTLINE’s League of Denial: The NFL’s Concussion Crisis. The film is grounded in the Fainaru brothers’ forthcoming book, also titled League of Denial, and the authors will continue to participate in the production and be featured in the documentary.

The film is still being edited and has not been seen by ESPN news executives, although we were on schedule to share it with them for their editorial input. The two-hour documentary and accompanying digital reporting will honor FRONTLINE’s rigorous standards of fairness, accuracy, transparency and depth

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/league-of-denial/a-note-from-frontline-espn-and-league-of-denial/

Marcellus
10-09-2013, 05:34 PM
Mike Webster is a sad story, but more than likely football just delayed the inevitable for Webster.

Without football he would have been living in a van at age 20 instead of in his 40's.

He obviously had mental issues that the effects of playing football perhaps enhanced or made worse, but didn't cause.

Tim Brown was on ESPN just an hour go saying that he wants to know what the correlation between concussion/CET type problems and alcohol/substance abuse is, if there is one.

OnTheWarpath15
10-09-2013, 05:35 PM
Larger than smoking or alcohol abuse?

Oh, well fuck it then.

It's not as big as smoking or alcohol abuse, so let's ignore it.

Hey, they make millions. They know the risk.

What about the guys that played little league through high school or college?

Fuck them too?

Titty Meat
10-09-2013, 05:37 PM
Oh, well fuck it then.

It's not as big as smoking or alcohol abuse, so let's ignore it.

Hey, they make millions. They know the risk.

What about the guys that played little league through high school or college?

Fuck them too?

So what is suppose to be done now?

Marcellus
10-09-2013, 05:38 PM
Oh, well **** it then.

It's not as big as smoking or alcohol abuse, so let's ignore it.

Hey, they make millions. They know the risk.

What about the guys that played little league through high school or college?

**** them too?

JFC you are a blow hard.

Nobody said "**** them".

Fact is the NFL and all football for that matter is a voluntary sport. You lay out the facts and give them the option to play or not play, its not ****ing difficult to understand.

Players like Robert Smith made their choice to quit. Others play.

That sure is a tall horse you like to sit on.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-09-2013, 05:38 PM
Ok fine but there is still assumed risk involved. Especially now that the risk is a known risk. Granted in the past it wasn't.

NASCAR drivers, Formula 1 drivers, they know driving 200mph is dangerous, it was never even needed to be explained to them.

Are we going to outlaw car racing as well?

Is the assumption football will die because parents wont let their kids play? I call bullshit on that. (not saying that is your stance)

As long as there is $ to be had, meaning there is an NFL, there will be kids wanting to play.

Its not going away.

I commented on none of that.

The story is two-fold: 1) the real risks of playing football are being revealed and 2) the NFL participated in a massive coverup attempt over the last two decades to keep this from being known while players who would suffer lethal consequences from CTE were in the middle of their playing careers.

The outward physical consequences have been known and accepted and no one is saying those are even up for debate. To conflate the two isn't even false, it demonstrates an inability to even understand the debate. What the NFL has attempted to do is no different than what tobacco companies or for-profit blood banks tried to do in year's past: obfuscate and deny scientific research so that they could continue to make money without liability.

KCChiefsFan88
10-09-2013, 05:41 PM
Tim Brown was on ESPN just an hour go saying that he wants to know what the correlation between concussion/CET type problems and alcohol/substance abuse is, if there is one.

There was virtually no mention of the alcohol/substance abuse factor in the documentary.

Look at Jim McMahon as an example. This is a guy who has had alcohol issues for 30+ years, yet blames his memory loss issues almost exclusively on concussions.

Memory loss is also caused by excessive alcohol consumption.

How can you determine which of the two... alcoholism or concussions is responsible for McMahon's current mental issues?

It is probably a combination of both, but it is easier to blame concussions and the NFL because that is where the lawsuit money is.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-09-2013, 05:44 PM
There was virtually no mention of the alcohol/substance abuse factor in the documentary.

There absolutely was. Every time an NFL suit was interviewed they could not mention steroids or other substances quickly enough.



Look at Jim McMahon as an example. This is a guy who has had alcohol issues for 30+ years, yet blames his memory loss issues almost exclusively on concussions.

Memory loss is also caused by excessive alcohol consumption.

How can you determine which of the two... alcoholism or concussions is responsible for McMahon's current mental issues?

It is probably a combination of both, but it is easier to blame concussions and the NFL because that is where the lawsuit money is.

Or...perhaps the alcohol is a coping mechanism for the pain, distress, and rage caused by brain trauma.

Marcellus
10-09-2013, 05:45 PM
I commented on none of that.

The story is two-fold: 1) the real risks of playing football are being revealed and 2) the NFL participated in a massive coverup attempt over the last two decades to keep this from being known while players who would suffer lethal consequences from CTE were in the middle of their playing careers.

The outward physical consequences have been known and accepted and no one is saying those are even up for debate. To conflate the two isn't even false, it demonstrates an inability to even understand the debate. What the NFL has attempted to do is no different than what tobacco companies or for-profit blood banks tried to do in year's past: obfuscate and deny scientific research so that they could continue to make money without liability.

Thats why they just paid out the settlement to get off the hook. Nobody is denying that.

Many of the comments I am reading here are in regard to current and future issues involving this problem.

KCUnited
10-09-2013, 05:51 PM
It may not go away, but will it attract the best athletes in the world like it currently does? While good athletes participate in combat sports or racing, a good number likely weren't good enough or had the physical attributes to play in the marque sports. Grown men can't make the decision if their family made it for them in high school. Fortunately for the NFL, there aren't a bunch of options for athletic fat guys.

BigCatDaddy
10-09-2013, 09:00 PM
Ok fine but there is still assumed risk involved. Especially now that the risk is a known risk. Granted in the past it wasn't.

NASCAR drivers, Formula 1 drivers, they know driving 200mph is dangerous, it was never even needed to be explained to them.

Are we going to outlaw car racing as well?

Is the assumption football will die because parents wont let their kids play? I call bullshit on that. (not saying that is your stance)

As long as there is $ to be had, meaning there is an NFL, there will be kids wanting to play.

Its not going away.

There will be some, but I would hope that most parent are smart enough to know that the chances of their kids ever making money at football are very very slim.

InChiefsHeaven
10-10-2013, 06:38 AM
Rugby has the exact same risks as football. If football goes away, so does rugby.

Not if you ask a Rugby player. My son used to play (ironically, after he quit football). The culture seemed to brag that they were tougher than football players because they run the whole game, but they were smarter because they didn't hit, they tackled. No helmets, no "body armor" as they called it.

There's some logic to that. When they played, they didn't launch into each other like in football. They still have knee, ankle, shoulder, whatever problems, but concussions are not nearly as prevalent in Rugby as in football, though it of course does happen:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/shortcuts/2013/jan/28/american-football-rugby-more-dangerous

While American football may be a niche interest in the UK, rugby is often seen as similarly dangerous – so should David Cameron be as worried as President Obama? Not according to Jim McKenna, a professor of physical activity and health at Leeds Metropolitan University (and a rugby coach). He points out that American footballers tackle with their heads, butting each other in a way seldom seen in rugby. "They butt the opposition and their head is the tip of the missile, with an enormous body of weight behind them," says McKenna. Meanwhile, the helmets and padding the US sportsmen wear can actually make the situation worse, he thinks, encouraging them to use more force.

In rugby it is spinal injuries from scrums that are the most dangerous (110 rugby players in Britain have been paralysed by playing the game). Allyson Pollock, a professor of public health, says that she is very worried about amateur rugby players, and especially children. Coaches, she says, are not properly trained to look out for the signs of concussion or taught how to deal with it – although it can have serious problems for children's learning and cognitive functions. She would like to see large-scale studies of the effects of such injuries, and says the sport establishment needs to think carefully about tackles. In 2010, she called for scrums to be banned after a study found that 190 rugby matches at Scottish schools resulted in 37 injuries. "Most children are not going to go professional, so why are their bodies being mauled and mashed and battered?"

Dayze
10-10-2013, 08:17 AM
There will be some, but I would hope that most parent are smart enough to know that the chances of their kids ever making money at football are very very slim.

yep. I heard some crazy statistic a while back. I'm probably not 100% accurate, but only like 2% of HS football players play D1 football. Of those, less than 1% make it to the NFL;

something ridiculous like that

BigCatDaddy
10-10-2013, 08:32 AM
yep. I heard some crazy statistic a while back. I'm probably not 100% accurate, but only like 2% of HS football players play D1 football. Of those, less than 1% make it to the NFL;

something ridiculous like that

I think some times people take for granite how lucky you might have been to even play in HS. I was thinking the other day about basketball. I went to a medium sized school of about 1000 kids. Let's say 1/2 are boys and 1/2 are Juniors/Seniors. So that's a pool of 250 boys and about 12 kids even dress for a boys varsity game so that's 5% of the eligible kids get a varsity basketball jersey (not saying everyone wants one).

cosmo20002
10-10-2013, 08:57 AM
Mike Webster is a sad story, but more than likely football just delayed the inevitable for Webster.

Without football he would have been living in a van at age 20 instead of in his 40's.

He obviously had mental issues that the effects of playing football perhaps enhanced or made worse, but didn't cause.

How did you reach that conclusion?

Dayze
10-10-2013, 09:05 AM
I think some times people take for granite how lucky you might have been to even play in HS. I was thinking the other day about basketball. I went to a medium sized school of about 1000 kids. Let's say 1/2 are boys and 1/2 are Juniors/Seniors. So that's a pool of 250 boys and about 12 kids even dress for a boys varsity game so that's 5% of the eligible kids get a varsity basketball jersey (not saying everyone wants one).

I only played for 2 years; and one of the baddest Varisty players in the district, got 2 offers from DII schools.
We did play a kid who played CB and WR who had D1 offers to like 4 of the Big 12 schools. I played primarily SS/FS and only had to cover him a handful of times. It wasn't' even close man. Dude was big (I think like 6'2") and probably 190lbs at the time. Quick, and just insane speed.

Only time they didn't complete a pass to him when I was covering him was when the QB fucked up the throw LMAO.

Graystoke
10-10-2013, 10:59 AM
I love Frontline.
But that dudes voice makes me so sleepy.
I doesn't matter how interesting the program is, I always nod off.
His name is Will Lyman
http://www.whitethroat.com/

Bowser
10-10-2013, 11:10 AM
I've said it for a few years now and I believe it more as time goes on -

There will come a time where it will be mandatory to sign a waiver to play in the NFL to protect the league and owners from future lawsuits due to head trauma.

ct
10-10-2013, 11:18 AM
Paul Tagliabue was a Joke.

what are you talkin about? it's goodell's fault! and Obama!

Ultra Peanut
10-10-2013, 03:13 PM
I watched the whole thing last night, and it was captivating despite not really containing any shocking revelations. My belief that the sport will be dead -- or wildly different -- in 30 years was furthered, if only because of how clear it is that the NFL (and NCAA) are incapable of copping to anything negative, ever.

I have tickets to two football games in the next few months, and feel sort of gross about that fact.

Discuss Thrower
10-10-2013, 03:15 PM
Here's some input (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/09/league-of-denial-fails-to-tell-the-whole-story-on-concussions/) on the subject: League of Denial, the much-hyped look at the NFL’s failure to acknowledge the concussion issue on a more timely basis, likewise fails to tell the whole story about the concussion crisis. Not a single time in the two-hour documentary does the voice-of-God Frontline narrator or the Fainaru brothers or any of the persons interviewed ever mention the letters N, F, L, P, and A.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2013, 03:53 PM
Here's some input (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/09/league-of-denial-fails-to-tell-the-whole-story-on-concussions/) on the subject:

Which would be quickly revealed as horseshit if you read the book.

ShowtimeSBMVP
02-16-2014, 03:21 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Vacationing w daughters in Mexico, began the book &quot;League of Denial&quot;...just read chapter of my concussion in &#39;93...not totally accurate</p>&mdash; Troy Aikman (@TroyAikman) <a href="https://twitter.com/TroyAikman/statuses/435160829231517696">February 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tombstone RJ
02-16-2014, 03:24 PM
where is the union in all of this? Oh yah, as quiet as a mouse stealing cheese...

BlackHelicopters
02-16-2014, 03:25 PM
I'm not saying it's Aliens, but it's Aliens.

Bowser
02-16-2014, 03:26 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Vacationing w daughters in Mexico, began the book &quot;League of Denial&quot;...just read chapter of my concussion in '93...not totally accurate</p>&mdash; Troy Aikman (@TroyAikman) <a href="https://twitter.com/TroyAikman/statuses/435160829231517696">February 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Like he has a clear memory of what happened.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oShTJ90fC34" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BryanBusby
02-16-2014, 05:31 PM
I think some times people take for granite
I never take anything for granite.

BigCatDaddy
02-17-2014, 08:48 AM
I never take anything for granite.

Sadly for my wallet my wife likes to take a lot of granite.

Jimmya
02-17-2014, 11:28 AM
Troy says he wouldn't change a thing.