Chiefs’ Brandon Flowers embraces new role as nickel cornerback

[KcMizzou]

Chiefs’ Brandon Flowers embraces new role as nickel cornerback
By TEREZ A. PAYLOR
The Kansas City Star

After spending the vast majority of his six-year career as an outside cornerback in the National Football League, Brandon Flowers has spent the better part of a month trying to learn the intricacies of the nickel corner position.

If you think it’s been easy, well, think again.

“In the slot, the receiver can go any way — inside, outside, over the top,” Flowers said. “Everybody knows the slot has no help. You’ve just got to man up.”

Unlike outside corners, who are protected against having to defend certain routes because of the sideline, nickel corners have to deal with slot receivers who have what football people call a “two-way go,” which essentially opens up the receiver’s entire route tree.

“That means that no matter what hash the quarterback is on, the receiver can run a deep post or a corner and still have a lot of room to get his feet inbounds,” Chiefs safety Eric Berry said. “They don’t put any slouches in the slot.”

Flowers will see one of the league’s best slot receivers on Sunday, when the undefeated Chiefs head to Denver to face star Wes Welker and the Broncos, 8-1.

“It’s tough because he’s not only quick, he’s crafty,” said Flowers, who said he has matched up with Welker before. “He knows not to give you the same move twice in a game. So you’ve got to be ready to battle.”

Despite his diminutive size (5 foot 9, 185 pounds) and somewhat advanced age for a receiver (32), the five-time Pro Bowler has caught 53 passes for 576 yards and nine touchdowns. At this pace, Welker is on track to finish with 16 touchdowns, which would nearly double his career high of nine, which he set in New England in 2011.

“He’s a smart guy; he was with Tom Brady for so many years,” Flowers said. “But him with Peyton Manning might be even more dangerous.”

Flowers has opened the last three games as the starter at left cornerback in the Chiefs’ base 3-4 package, only to shift inside when they opt to use five or more defensive backs. He figures to see much more time inside this week because the Broncos use three-wide sets almost exclusively.

But Flowers won’t just face a challenge in coverage Sunday. Because nickel corners line up closer to the ball than outside receivers, they must also be physical enough to hold up in the running game, despite the fact they could be at a 100-plus pound disadvantage against oncoming blockers.

“You’ve got to take on pulling guards,” Flowers said with a chuckle.

It’s made for an interesting transition for Flowers, who admits he’s still getting used to playing inside so much.

“This is the most comfortable I’ve felt in a game,” Flowers said after the Chiefs’ 23-13 win over Buffalo on Nov. 3. “I was going against a great slot (receiver) in Stevie Johnson. I was challenged ... (the coaches) are not going to give us help; we know that. We’re going to attack the quarterback.”

Johnson caught five passes for 36 yards on seven targets against the Chiefs, but Flowers was just fine with his performance and was particularly looking forward to spending the bye week resting up his balky right knee and studying film of Denver’s offense.

“You got to spend the extra week to try to gain an edge on Denver,” Flowers said. “They’re so precise, they’re so fluid, you’ve got to find a way to disrupt timing and disrupt what they do.”

But Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning, one of the league’s most rabid film junkies, has been looking at the Chiefs’ defense, too. When asked Wednesday about the Chiefs’ decision to move Flowers to the nickel, Manning said it was a credit to Flowers and his versatility.

“He’s got great speed,” Manning said. “There’s no question it says a lot about the confidence they have in him.”

Manning, however, said he was also impressed with rookie cornerback Marcus Cooper, whose emergence allowed the Chiefs to try Flowers inside in the first place. The Chiefs, of course, claimed Cooper off waivers from the 49ers.

“When (a player is) drafted by another team and released in training camp, it’s not very often you see (him going on) and starting on the top defense in the NFL,” Manning said. “He’s playing well, making a lot of plays, breaking up passes.”

Cooper’s stellar play — he improbably has the highest grade (plus-10) of any Chiefs player in the secondary, according to Pro Football Focus — is one of the biggest reasons Flowers has been OK with the move inside.

“The way Marcus Cooper is playing man, we’re just trying to get our best players on the field — and I’m all for it,” Flowers said. “We’re winning, and we haven’t been winning here before. So as long as we’re winning, I have no problem with doing anything they ask me to do.”

On Sunday, there’s little doubt he’ll be asked to use all he’s learned over the past month to contain Welker, one of the league’s premier receivers, while Cooper and Sean Smith take on Eric Decker and Demaryius Thomas, two bigger Broncos receivers, on the outside.

“I have to make it work for this team to win,” Flowers said, “and these guys on the outside have a hard job, also … but we’re going to pull it off.”

Chiefs’ Brandon Flowers embraces new role as nickel cornerback

[In58men]

Ty Law

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Selfish.

[hometeam]

Remember when they said he wanted to give back his contract?

Big change in attitude has everything to do with this teams success.

[Reerun_KC]

Herman edwards puts players in position to make football plays. Can flowers make a football play?

[BossChief]

Herm was right. Remember when we drafted Flowers, he said he wanted a premier nickel guy. Iirc.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Herman edwards puts players in position to make football plays. Can flowers make a football play?

LMAO

"Come awn! Sumone make 'eh play"!

[KcMizzou]

Herm was right. Remember when we drafted Flowers, he said he wanted a premier nickel guy. Iirc.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5044/5269558397_64406aeb94_z.jpg

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Let's call Herm and find out. I'm sure he'd LOVE to talk about the players he drafted for this team.

[KcMizzou]

Being asked to cover Wes F'n Welker isn't exactly an insult. It's a compliment.

[Chieftain58]

Flowers is a true stud, the leader of the corners and will bitch slap anyone he gets ahold of!! Muthatruckers!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Flowers is a true stud, the leader of the corners and will bitch slap anyone he gets ahold of!! Muthatruckers!

A lot of years have passed since then, but the thing I liked about him coming out of VT, was that he was a physical corner who could lay the wood when given the opportunity.

[KcMizzou]

A lot of years have passed since then, but the thing I liked about him coming out of VT, was that he was a physical corner who could lay the wood when given the opportunity.Is he not that guy now?

[Titty Meat]

Herm was right. Remember when we drafted Flowers, he said he wanted a premier nickel guy. Iirc.

It's because he was constantly getting beat by #1 WR's.

[QuikSsurfer]

Is he not that guy now?

He has always been that guy. One of the better, harder hitting tacklers on the team.

[BossChief]

Being asked to cover Wes F'n Welker isn't exactly an insult. It's a compliment.

It's not just stopping slot receivers. It's helping to stop the run, providing a supplemental pass rush and being able to adjust to what the offense is trying to do.

Being able to play a guy of Flowers caliber in the slot is a testament to the overall strength of this group of corners we have assembled.

Pretty cool.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Is he not that guy now?

Oh, he is. But, you know; time/injuries etc.

[KcMizzou]

I'm really surprised by the posts in this thread. To me, this plan to move Flowers inside to match up with Welker is a sign that the coaching staff trusts him to take on a key component of Manning offense.

We've been speculating about this for weeks.

But now people think it's Flowers being demoted in some way?

It's all about match-ups.

[Titty Meat]

I'm really surprised by the posts in this thread. To me, this plan to move Flowers inside to match up with Welker is a sign that the coaching staff trusts him to take on a key component of Manning offense.

We've been speculating about this for weeks.

But now people think it's Flowers being demoted in some way?

It's all about match-ups.

No. Dunta Robinson was once an elite CB and moved to slot.

Flowers had a foot injury last year and a couple knee injuries this year. He was burnt repeatedly when playing the outside.

[KcMizzou]

Bullshit. When talking about these games a month or more ago, there was talk about Flowers moving inside to cover the slot receiver.

Specifically against the Broncos.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm really surprised by the posts in this thread. To me, this plan to move Flowers inside to match up with Welker is a sign that the coaching staff trusts him to take on a key component of Manning offense.

We've been speculating about this for weeks.

But now people think it's Flowers being demoted in some way?

It's all about match-ups.

This.

[tredadda]

I don't know why, but the author of that article's name messes me up. Seems backwards somehow.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

No. Dunta Robinson was once an elite CB and moved to slot.

Flowers had a foot injury last year and a couple knee injuries this year. He was burnt repeatedly when playing the outside.

Did you really just compare Flowers to Cunta fucking Robinson?

Piss on you. Piss on your head.

[BossChief]

Billay, just stop.

[RealSNR]

No. Dunta Robinson was once an elite CB and moved to slot.

Flowers had a foot injury last year and a couple knee injuries this year. He was burnt repeatedly when playing the outside.

Uhh... wow.

You have absolutely no room to call me out for Geno Smith after this post of yours.

[In58men]

Flowers is a true stud, the leader of the corners and will bitch slap anyone he gets ahold of!! Muthatruckers!

Remember Jacoby Ford ripped it out of Flowers hands to set up the win for Oakland?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Uhh... wow.

You have absolutely no room to call me out for Geno Smith after this post of yours.

How the fuck is 5-4 with a rookie "calling out" grounds, anyway? That's one game above .500 for the season, and probably more than should be expected at this point.

[Sorter]

Remember Jacoby Ford ripped it out of Flowers hands to set up the win for Oakland?

Is one play indicative of entire player's skill-set or abilities?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Is one play indicative of entire player's skill-set or abilities?

It is if you're Kyle Williams...:)

[ThaVirus]

No. Dunta Robinson was once an elite CB and moved to slot.

Flowers had a foot injury last year and a couple knee injuries this year. He was burnt repeatedly when playing the outside.

He got burnt by Dez Bryant while being asked to cover him 1-on-1 for almost the entire game. He then turned around and held DeSean Jackson to, like, 40 yards on a bum knee 4 days later.

Flowers hasn't been anything close to a liability.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

He got burnt by Dez Bryant while being asked to cover him 1-on-1 for almost the entire game. He then turned around and held DeSean Jackson to, like, 40 yards on a bum knee 4 days later.

Flowers hasn't been anything close to a liability.

He's rarely the "big play" guy, but damn he's consistent.

[BossChief]

Remember Jacoby Ford ripped it out of Flowers hands to set up the win for Oakland?

Every player has one of those moments at one point or another.

I was yelling at the top of my lungs "just knock it down!!"

It happens.

[KcMizzou]

He got burnt by Dez Bryant while being asked to cover him 1-on-1 for almost the entire game. He then turned around and held DeSean Jackson to, like, 40 yards on a bum knee 4 days later.

Flowers hasn't been anything close to a liability.He's playing inside specifically for this match-up. The Chiefs have built this secondary (as best they could in one off season) to beat the best team in the division.

It just so happens that they've beat all the teams on the way to it.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

He's playing inside specifically for this match-up. The Chiefs have built this secondary (as best they could in one off season) to beat the best team in the division.

It just so happens that they've beat all the teams on the way to it.

This game is going to be awesome.

[RealSNR]

How the fuck is 5-4 with a rookie "calling out" grounds, anyway? That's one game above .500 for the season, and probably more than should be expected at this point.

That's not stopping billay.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That's not stopping billay.

Mike Brown.

[tredadda]

He got burnt by Dez Bryant while being asked to cover him 1-on-1 for almost the entire game. He then turned around and held DeSean Jackson to, like, 40 yards on a bum knee 4 days later.

Flowers hasn't been anything close to a liability.

Is there a corner in the league that can truly cover Dez one on one?

[Sorter]

Is there a corner in the league that can truly cover Dez one on one?

Sherman, perhaps. Prime Revis but clearly, that's not available.

[Sorter]

Despite the size discrepancy, a Joe Haden matchup would be interesting as well.

[ThaVirus]

Is there a corner in the league that can truly cover Dez one on one?

Probably not. Sherman, Revis, Haden, Patrick Peterson, Talib might have a shot..

Maybe Vontae Davis if he spent the entire week preparing for Tom Brady.

[kcxiv]

Let's call Herm and find out. I'm sure he'd LOVE to talk about the players he drafted for this team.

He talks about them all the time on 810. Herms not shy and let's it be known he spdrafted a lot of these guys.

[mcaj22]

Is there a corner in the league that can truly cover Dez one on one?

whoever covered him on the Saints did a damn good job

[DaneMcCloud]

Flowers hasn't been anything close to a liability.

Flowers is not a liability.

But with Sean Smith and Marcus Cooper, his days of being the #1 cornerback are over.

[Sorter]

whoever covered him on the Saints did a damn good job

Kid from Pittsburgh. They rolled/bracketed quite a bit to help but he certainly had a nice game.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

He talks about them all the time on 810. Herms not shy and let's it be known he spdrafted a lot of these guys.

For all the shit he did and took, he was at least very good at one known thing.

[mcaj22]

Sean Smith is not a #1 CB hes barely a #2. he needs an elite safety to bail him out over top and until we get that he will be the big play burn victim more times than not

[DaneMcCloud]

Sean Smith is not a #1 CB hes barely a #2. he needs an elite safety to bail him out over top and until we get that he will be the big play burn victim more times than not

Shut the fuck up.

You've been spewing nothing but nonsense all year long.

Enough.

[DaneMcCloud]

For all the shit he did and took, he was at least very good at one known thing.

The Chiefs never found out what he could be as a head coach because he inherited a shitty, old roster.

[mcaj22]

Shut the **** up.

You've been spewing nothing but nonsense all year long.

Enough.

when he gets burnt in the playoffs ill be sure to find you

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The Chiefs never found out what he could be as a head coach because he inherited a shitty, old roster.

Yeah...........

I know it's been awhile, but try not to forget his game-day coaching...

[thabear04]

Flowers is not a liability.

But with Sean Smith and Marcus Cooper, his days of being the #1 cornerback are over.

Smith gets burn to sometimes but either way as long it's helping this D then put Flowers whatever you want hell put him in at FS.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Sean Smith is not a #1 CB hes barely a #2. he needs an elite safety to bail him out over top and until we get that he will be the big play burn victim more times than not

Eh, this is all about match ups for this game. And we're getting the best prescription for them.

[DaneMcCloud]

when he gets burnt in the playoffs ill be sure to find you

Just shut the fuck up.

You act as if cornerbacks in the NFL don't get burned for TD's every single week.

The wrong defense was called, Lewis was out of position, Smith bought a fake, it happens.

Jesus.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah...........

I know it's been awhile, but try not to forget his game-day coaching...

People say the same about Reid.

Coaches are always second guessed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Smith gets burn to sometimes but either way as long it's helping this D then put Flowers whatever you want hell put him in at FS.

Every cornerback in the NFL gets "burned".

Smith and Cooper have been outstanding. Flowers matches up better with slot receivers due to his size.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs are in an amazing place when Brandon Fucking Flowers is your number three CB.

[mcaj22]

Brandon Flowers is still the #1 its not even close

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

People say the same about Reid.

Coaches are always second guessed.

Give me a team that he and Dorsey have put together, coached by Reid and Sutton, and oh...shit.

[DaneMcCloud]

Brandon Flowers is still the #1 its not even close

You're still an idiot and it's not even close

[DaneMcCloud]

Give me a team that he and Dorsey have put together, coached by Reid and Sutton, and oh...shit.

I only wish that Herm had one more year and one more draft.

Oh well.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Brandon Flowers is still the #1 its not even close

Cooper is burning on his heels, though. It's a small sample-size compared to Flowers, but so far...damn.

[mcaj22]

You're still an idiot and it's not even close

you know nothing about football

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I only wish that Herm had one more year and one more draft.

Oh well.

It sure as fuck wouldn't have hurt us. But, you can't put 2-14 on the field and expect to keep a job.

[DaneMcCloud]

you know nothing about football

LMAO

Nice try, moron.

LMAO

[Sorter]

Flowers becomes a true #3 when he's replaced in base fronts for Cooper, IMO.

To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Additionally, it's absolutely fantastic there's player that's a technician and has great short area quickness, as well as intelligence to be able to move into the slot in subs. It's a necessity in today's NFL and I'm not sure why people are belittling Flowers or thinking he's regressed.

[DaneMcCloud]

It sure as fuck wouldn't have hurt us. But, you can't put 2-14 on the field and expect to keep a job.

I just wish that Clark Hunt had listened to Herm in 2006 and 2007 when he requested a full-scale rebuild of the Chiefs.

By 2008, when the request was granted, the stadium was empty and apathy set in.

I don't think that Herm was the type of coach to bring home a championship but I sure respected the hell out of his scouting and drafts.

He made Pioli look like an assistant manager at a 7-11.

[mcaj22]

Flowers becomes a true #3 when he's replaced in base fronts for Cooper, IMO.

To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Additionally, it's absolutely fantastic there's player that's a technician and has great short area quickness, as well as intelligence to be able to move into the slot in subs. It's a necessity in today's NFL and I'm not sure why people are belittling Flowers or thinking he's regressed.

exactly. Flowers will never leave the field no matter the formation

[DaneMcCloud]

Flowers becomes a true #3 when he's replaced in base fronts for Cooper, IMO.

To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet. Additionally, it's absolutely fantastic there's player that's a technician and has great short area quickness, as well as intelligence to be able to move into the slot in subs. It's a necessity in today's NFL and I'm not sure why people are belittling Flowers or thinking he's regressed.

I'm certainly not belittling him. It's more of a testament to Smith and Cooper than a dismantling of Flowers.

It's been happening more and more. Cooper & Smith on the outside, Flowers on the inside. I believe this is what we'll see for the rest of the season, with two Denver and San Diego games ahead (not to mention the Colts).

Again, it's not a bad thing to have a Brandon Flowers man the slot/nickel. Cooper and Smith matchup better with taller, outside receivers.

Cooper in 2014 is going to be an outright monster.

[Sorter]

I just wish that Clark Hunt had listened to Herm in 2006 and 2007 when he requested a full-scale rebuild of the Chiefs.

By 2008, when the request was granted, the stadium was empty and apathy set in.

I don't think that Herm was the type of coach to bring home a championship but I sure respected the hell out of his scouting and drafts.

He made Pioli look like an assistant manager at a 7-11.

I wish we'd somehow managed to bring back Herm as a DB coach.

Guy may sound like a moron to some but he's extremely detailed.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I just wish that Clark Hunt had listened to Herm in 2006 and 2007 when he requested a full-scale rebuild of the Chiefs.

By 2008, when the request was granted, the stadium was empty and apathy set in.

I don't think that Herm was the type of coach to bring home a championship but I sure respected the hell out of his scouting and drafts.

He made Pioli look like an assistant manager at a 7-11.

Really, and I know there were a few, but outside of Pollard, Tank and Turk, I can't recall too many misses on Herm's part.

Fuck; Tank and Turk might have been monsters under this new regime...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I wish we'd somehow managed to bring back Herm as a DB coach.

Guy may sound like a moron to some but he's extremely detailed.

Head of defensive scouting would make me JIMP.

[Sorter]

It's been happening more and more. Cooper & Smith on the outside, Flowers on the inside. I believe this is what we'll see for the rest of the season, with two Denver and San Diego games ahead (not to mention the Colts).

Again, it's not a bad thing to have a Brandon Flowers man the slot/nickel. Cooper and Smith matchup better with taller, outside receivers.

Cooper in 2014 is going to be an outright monster.

It'll be interesting to see how they do with that grouping next year.

IMO, Flowers is a much better option for cloud than Cooper/Smith, which might be why he stays in for the majority of base fronts next year (ala Winfield). However, I suspect there will be some variation in regards to our "base" corners on different fronts.

[DaneMcCloud]

I wish we'd somehow managed to bring back Herm as a DB coach.

Guy may sound like a moron to some but he's extremely detailed.

I personally believe he's a great position coach and scout. As I mentioned earlier, he's not likely to win a championship, as some men just aren't cut out to be a head coach.

But Herm Edwards knows football, regardless of whether or not you like his persona. I think he'd be phenomenal at the college level, if given an opportunity at a high level university with a strong AD.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I bet he could turn his old alma-mater in to a goddamned powerhouse.

[DaneMcCloud]

It'll be interesting to see how they do with that grouping next year.

IMO, Flowers is a much better option for cloud than Cooper/Smith, which might be why he stays in for the majority of base fronts next year (ala Winfield). However, I suspect there will be some variation in regards to our "base" corners on different fronts.

I think it'll all depend on the matchup and opponent.

Right now, I'd have no problem putting Cooper on Dez Bryant, Demaryous Thomas, etc. In all honesty, I actually would feel better about Cooper against those guys due to his size.

Those guys, at 6'3, can sky. Flowers, at 5'9, just can't compete like a taller corner can.

[Sorter]

I personally believe he's a great position coach and scout. As I mentioned earlier, he's not likely to win a championship, as some men just aren't cut out to be a head coach.

But Herm Edwards knows football, regardless of whether or not you like his persona. I think he'd be phenomenal at the college level, if given an opportunity at a high level university with a strong AD.

I concur.

[Sorter]

I think it'll all depend on the matchup and opponent.

Right now, I'd have no problem putting Cooper on Dez Bryant, Demaryous Thomas, etc. In all honesty, I actually would feel better about Cooper against those guys due to his size.

Those guys, at 6'3, can sky. Flowers, at 5'9, just can't compete like a taller corner can.

I think that will definitely play a major factor.

[DaneMcCloud]

I bet he could turn his old alma-mater in to a goddamned powerhouse.

It's amazing how bitter people were towards Edwards and Peterson at the end of that era, yet they're looked upon in a far more favorable light than Pioli/Haley/Crennel.

Be careful what you wish for, little girl...

[Nightfyre]

It's amazing how bitter people were towards Edwards and Peterson at the end of that era, yet they're looked upon in a far more favorable light than Pioli/Haley/Crennel.

Be careful what you wish for, little girl...

Puh-lease. Carl wasn't going to take us anywhere we hadn't been in the 20 unsuccessful years before and Herm was a terrible HC. Anyone remember when 20+ points was "arena-ball" to Herm? JFC.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It's amazing how bitter people were towards Edwards and Peterson at the end of that era, yet they're looked upon in a far more favorable light than Pioli/Haley/Crennel.

Be careful what you wish for, little girl...

Carl was about 10 years overdue and should have left with Marty. As you stated, Herm had the guts to call for a complete overhaul, but was hampered in his efforts. Had their been less cronyism and a legitimate GM prospect available to work with Edwards, who knows?

[DaneMcCloud]

Puh-lease. Carl wasn't going to take us anywhere we hadn't been in the 20 unsuccessful years before and Herm was a terrible HC. Anyone remember when 20+ points was "arena-ball" to Herm? JFC.

So, people don't hate Pioli/Haley more than Herm/Peterson?

:spock:

Who are you talking to in Kansas City?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

But ultimately, I'm grateful for Herm's drafting efforts(and even some of Peeholi's)and happy to be with the crew we have now, warts and all.

I won't always agree with Reid's overrides, but I can not deny that he knows how to make a team a "team". And of course, Dorsey is just beyond any expectations we've had for decades.

[DaneMcCloud]

Carl was about 10 years overdue and should have left with Marty. As you stated, Herm had the guts to call for a complete overhaul, but was hampered in his efforts. Had their been less cronyism and a legitimate GM prospect available to work with Edwards, who knows?

Absolutely. I blame Lamar.

At least Clark allowed Kuharich and Herm to run the 2008 draft.

Had he done that in 2006, I have no doubt this team would have a few less holes.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Absolutely. I blame Lamar.

At least Clark allowed Kuharich and Herm to run the 2008 draft.

Had he done that in 2006, I have no doubt this team would have a few less holes.

Well, one thing I can say about Clark; he's not fucking around. You either perform, or you're OUT.

Thank God.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, one thing I can say about Clark; he's not fucking around. You either perform, or you're OUT.

Thank God.

Yeah, the Clark's are doing a bang up job.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yeah, the Clark's are doing a bang up job.

LMAO

[Nightfyre]

So, people don't hate Pioli/Haley more than Herm/Peterson?

:spock:

Who are you talking to in Kansas City?

Moving away from Peterson was absolutely the right move. I don't even care that we got a worse series of GM/HC simply because at least we were trying again. Anyone who thinks that people actually still wanted Carl around are skull-fucked by nostalgia.

[Sorter]

Side note: It's pretty fucking awesome to have Parker waiting in the wings as well.

[DaneMcCloud]

Moving away from Peterson was absolutely the right move. I don't even care that we got a worse series of GM/HC simply because at least we were trying again. Anyone who thinks that people actually still wanted Carl around are skull-fucked by nostalgia.
I think you'd do well to reread my post

[Nightfyre]

I think you'd do well to reread my post

"Be careful what you wish for"
as in - people were regretting moving away from Peterson/Herm
No one was - not even after Pioli was a huge flop.

[DaneMcCloud]

Side note: It's pretty fucking awesome to have Parker waiting in the wings as well.

Ron Parker? Hells ya, even though he's in his third year.

Now, if only Sander Commings can become Berry's counterpart...

[DaneMcCloud]

"Be careful what you wish for"
as in - people were regretting moving away from Peterson/Herm
No one was - not even after Pioli was a huge flop.

You're missing the point, but whatever.

That seems to be your M.O. these days.

[thabear04]

Man If we still had routt he will get burn every play.

[Sorter]

Ron Parker? Hells ya, even though he's in his third year.

Now, if only Sander Commings can become Berry's counterpart...

I think Parker has a nice chance to be an excellent sub player.

Worst case scenario, he's an excellent ST player.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think Parker has a nice chance to be an excellent sub player.

Worst case scenario, he's an excellent ST player.
I didn't realize he was 26 years old. That probably accounts for much of his maturity on the field.

That, and obviously good coaching in Seattle, Carolina and of course, Kansas City.

[thabear04]

I didn't realize he was 26 years old. That probably accounts for much of his maturity on the field.

That, and obviously good coaching in Seattle, Carolina and of course, Kansas City.

He knock that ball off on Romo during that game and recover it.

[ThaVirus]

whoever covered him on the Saints did a damn good job

Kid from Pittsburgh. They rolled/bracketed quite a bit to help but he certainly had a nice game.

Sorter beat me to it but they gave Dez a shit ton of attention. They kept highlighting throughout the broadcast how he was basically bracketed all the way up the field, then outright double teamed at the line (in press coverage so he basically couldn't even get off the LOS) in the red zone.

Flowers is not a liability.

But with Sean Smith and Marcus Cooper, his days of being the #1 cornerback are over.

Flowers is MUCH better than Sean Smith. Outside of that game against Dez Bryant, which I think would have worked out similarly for literally 95% of CBs in the league, I can't remember Flowers getting worked. The only TD I can remember being scored on him was by Dez and there was some thought that he may have been expecting safety help on the inside.

[DaneMcCloud]

Flowers is MUCH better than Sean Smith. Outside of that game against Dez Bryant, which I think would have worked out similarly for literally 95% of CBs in the league, I can't remember Flowers getting worked. The only TD I can remember being scored on him was by Dez and there was some thought that he may have been expecting safety help on the inside.

Flowers is a better technician but his size is a detriment. If he were even 6'0' he'd be up there with Sherman. But there's no denying that Smith and Cooper match up better against taller and more physical receivers.

I am happy that he's not matched up with Thomas this weekend.

[ThaVirus]

Flowers is a better technician but his size is a detriment. If he were even 6'0' he'd be up there with Sherman. But there's no denying that Smith and Cooper match up better against taller and more physical receivers.

I am happy that he's not matched up with Thomas this weekend.

His size is obviously somewhat of a hindrance. If he were 6'3" like Richard Sherman he'd be mentioned in the same breath as he and Revis. He's also kind of slow, which is not really a good combination at CB these days..

We'll have to disagree, though. Sean Smith matches up better on paper only because he's bigger. He's no faster than Flowers and his technique isn't as good. And despite having favorable size, he's not exceptionally physical- at least from what I've seen.

Demaryius Thomas has elite size and speed; if Sean Smith gets matched up on him often I don't like our chances. I've mentioned several times here that I'd hate to give the rookie such a heavy workload, but Cooper should be covering Thomas more often than not.

[DaneMcCloud]

His size is obviously somewhat of a hindrance. If he were 6'3" like Richard Sherman he'd be mentioned in the same breath as he and Revis. He's also kind of slow, which is not really a good combination at CB these days..

We'll have to disagree, though. Sean Smith matches up better on paper only because he's bigger. He's no faster than Flowers and his technique isn't as good. And despite having favorable size, he's not exceptionally physical- at least from what I've seen.

Demaryius Thomas has elite size and speed; if Sean Smith gets matched up on him often I don't like our chances. I've mentioned several times here that I'd hate to give the rookie such a heavy workload, but Cooper should be covering Thomas more often than not.

Smith IS faster than Flowers, IMO. Flowers would have been caught in Buffalo.

Regardless, I view Cooper as the #1, not Smith.

[CaliforniaChief]

I still find myself just stopping in the middle of my day and think:

"DAMN, we picked up a legitimate NFL shutdown corner on waivers after final cuts."

And then, to make myself feel even better I lump Alex Smith in with all the other moves and see this mega-trade:

SF Gets:
2013 2nd round pick
2014 2nd round pick
WR Jon Baldwin

KC Gets:
Alex Smith
Marcus Cooper
A.J. Jenkins
Kyle Williams

[DaneMcCloud]

I still find myself just stopping in the middle of my day and think:

"DAMN, we picked up a legitimate NFL shutdown corner on waivers after final cuts."

And then, to make myself feel even better I lump Alex Smith in with all the other moves and see this mega-trade:

SF Gets:
2013 2nd round pick
2014 2nd round pick
WR Jon Baldwin

KC Gets:
Alex Smith
Marcus Cooper
A.J. Jenkins
Kyle Williams

Outside of the draft, Dorsey has been a pimp.

If Commings, Davis, Kush or Catapano kick ass through the playoffs, Dorsey should be a serious candidate for Exec of the Year.

His free agency and roster moves have been ridiculously good.

[CaliforniaChief]

Outside of the draft, Dorsey has been a pimp.

If Commings, Davis, Kush or Catapano kick ass through the playoffs, Dorsey should be a serious candidate for Exec of the Year.

His free agency and roster moves have been ridiculously good.

Also consider that if Fisher continues to improve and pass protection improves and running lanes open up on the right side, that would be a huge plus as well.

And let's not talk Executive of the Year. That term brings up some bad memories.

[DaneMcCloud]

And let's not talk Executive of the Year. That term brings up some bad memories.

LMAO

[beach tribe]

A lot of years have passed since then, but the thing I liked about him coming out of VT, was that he was a physical corner who could lay the wood when given the opportunity.

Very physical guy. The perfect nickle for press man which we will need. Big time. I hope he makes Welker his bitch. He has to get his hands on him, re-route him disrupt him patterns.

Welker does most of his damage just past 5 yards. Flowers needs to be all over his ass.

[crazycoffey]

He's playing inside specifically for this match-up. The Chiefs have built this secondary (as best they could in one off season) to beat the best team in the division.

It just so happens that they've beat all the teams on the way to it.

I've been feeling this way all season. The colts game I heard "the colts have the pass rush and secondary to stop Denver's offense". It made me yell at the tv, "so do the chiefs!!!!"

[ILChief]

Outside of the draft, Dorsey has been a pimp.

If Commings, Davis, Kush or Catapano kick ass through the playoffs, Dorsey should be a serious candidate for Exec of the Year.

His free agency and roster moves have been ridiculously good.

While this draft may not contribute much this year, I think Davis, Nico, and Commings will good players in the future and Fisher should keep getting better

[Ace Gunner]

Flowers is not a speedster, so moving him inside is good idea for several reasons. He's as good as any at shedding blocks to make a a tackle on the RB and his cover in short routes is XLNT. I like this move a lot.

and watching BDot cover Welker this weekend should be awesome.

[BlackHelicopters]

Brandon seems comfortable with this move. I like it.

[Sandy Vagina]

Every cornerback in the NFL gets "burned".

Smith and Cooper have been outstanding. Flowers matches up better with slot receivers due to his size.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs are in an amazing place when Brandon ****ing Flowers is your number three CB.

Agreed. It just makes sense. Smith and Cooper are long, lean corners that play outside well, and Flowers is the savvy, smaller corner that can change directions quicker to hang with the slot receivers. It's an ideal set-up for this D-scheme.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Also consider that if Fisher continues to improve and pass protection improves and running lanes open up on the right side, that would be a huge plus as well.


Even with the relatively small sample size we have, does Fisher scream "Dorsey pick" to you?

Me neither.

[-King-]

Smith IS faster than Flowers, IMO. Flowers would have been caught in Buffalo.

Regardless, I view Cooper as the #1, not Smith.

Yeah, that's why I thought that quote by Peyton Manning about Flowers being fast was funny. Flowers is nowhere near fast. He's quick and flips his hips well, but fast? Nope.

[Titty Meat]

Billay, just stop.

Coming from the guy who pimped Ricky Stanzi for how many years? Fuck you.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Coming from the guy who pimped Ricky Stanzi for how many years? Fuck you.

lmao

[tredadda]

I think it'll all depend on the matchup and opponent.

Right now, I'd have no problem putting Cooper on Dez Bryant, Demaryous Thomas, etc. In all honesty, I actually would feel better about Cooper against those guys due to his size.

Those guys, at 6'3, can sky. Flowers, at 5'9, just can't compete like a taller corner can.

^ This. Some of Flowers worst games were against the bigger stronger receivers. While he has the skill to cover them, he just lacks the necessary size and it shows.

[Titty Meat]

The Sean Smith hate on here is ridiculous. He's been our best corner there's a reason why the 49ers and Packers went after him in free agency.

Some of you listen to clay too much.

[WhiteWhale]

Some people in this thread are dumb.

We moved Flowers to the slot only on nickle and dime. He didn't get demoted and he STILL plays the same spot from the base defense.

Nickel is harder than playing outside.

He didn't get moved because of poor play. He got moved because he's more capable of playing that very difficult position than anyone else.

He's not our '3rd corner'. That would be the guy that only enters the game in nickel formations.

[WhiteWhale]

FWIW, Smith ran a 4.5, Flowers ran a 4.55 and Cooper ran a 4.45 40 yard dash.

Sean Smith is not much faster than Flowers.

[WhiteWhale]

Smith IS faster than Flowers, IMO. Flowers would have been caught in Buffalo.

Regardless, I view Cooper as the #1, not Smith.

Our #1 CB is the guy who plays the least amount of snaps between the 3?

Cooper has played the best this season, but he's not the top guy on the depth chart.

[notorious]

Flowers is a decent cover guy, but his real strength is in tackling.


He is a fantastic tackler.

[DaneMcCloud]

Our #1 CB is the guy who plays the least amount of snaps between the 3?

Cooper has played the best this season, but he's not the top guy on the depth chart.

Just stop, please.

[WhiteWhale]

Just stop, please.

Please explain how the guy who lines up outside only in sub packages is a #1 corner and I will.

No need to be nasty, but you can if you want.

[ThaVirus]

Honest question, does anyone have the numbers on how often we're actually in our base defense? I feel like we practically never are.

[-King-]

FWIW, Smith ran a 4.5, Flowers ran a 4.55 and Cooper ran a 4.45 40 yard dash.

Sean Smith is not much faster than Flowers.

40 yard dashes don't tell the whole truth. Smith is faster than Flowers especially right now.

[WhiteWhale]

40 yard dashes don't tell the whole truth. Smith is faster than Flowers especially right now.

Yes, he is.

The difference is not that great in terms of speed and in spite of that WR's are more successful getting behind him than they are getting behind flowers.

[ThaVirus]

40 yard dashes don't tell the whole truth. Smith is faster than Flowers especially right now.

On two bum knees? Of course.

[-King-]

Yes, he is.

The difference is not that great in terms of speed and in spite of that WR's are more successful getting behind him than they are getting behind flowers.

For the most part Smith has covered the best or 2nd best WR on opposing teams this season. Flowers hasn't. And I still believe Flowers is allowing more yards per catch than Smith.

[-King-]

On two bum knees? Of course.

Smith has always been faster. Flowers has NEVER been a fast cornerback. He just has great technique and is very smart.

[ThaVirus]

Smith has always been faster. Flowers has NEVER been a fast cornerback. He just has great technique and is very smart.

I've never said Flowers was fast, I actually said he was relatively slow earlier in this thread.

I guess I just don't see what you guys see. Smith ran the 40 .05 seconds faster than Flowers, what, 6 or 7 years ago? They were both in shorts. Neither one does much on game day to separate themselves speed-wise. If anything, Flowers would appear faster in that he doesn't get best deep as often.

[htismaqe]

Flowers was drafted to be a zone corner. He's a solid tackler and a very good tactician. He was supposed to be fast, he wasn't supposed to be long.

I think the fact that he's still excelling despite moving towards mostly man coverage is a testament to his skills.

[-King-]

I've never said Flowers was fast, I actually said he was relatively slow earlier in this thread.

I guess I just don't see what you guys see. Smith ran the 40 .05 seconds faster than Flowers, what, 6 or 7 years ago? They were both in shorts. Neither one does much on game day to separate themselves speed-wise. If anything, Flowers would appear faster in that he doesn't get best deep as often.

And McCluster ran a 4.58 and I think we can agree he's faster than both of them. Avery ran a 4.49 at the combine and he's probably one of the 10-15 fastest players in the league. The 40 time is overrated IMO.

[Sorter]

And McCluster ran a 4.58 and I think we can agree he's faster than both of them. Avery ran a 4.49 at the combine and he's probably one of the 10-15 fastest players in the league. The 40 time is overrated IMO.

“Last year after the injury, after the lockout, I did clock a 4.25,” Avery told Indianapolis reporters, in comments distributed by the Colts’ PR staff. “It was on grass and it was 40 yards in Houston.”

One reporter asked an interesting follow-up to that claim: Why did Avery run a 4.49-second 40-yard dash at the Combine?

“I had a pulled hamstring,” Avery answered. “I told all of the coaches before I had a pulled hamstring and they told me, ‘don’t do anything.’ But I just felt bad sitting back and watching other guys run and compete and I couldn’t participate. After that I did the gauntlet, re-strained it and had to sit out the rest of the Combine.”


In a 2008 pre-draft workout at the Houston Pro Day, Avery ran the 40-yard dash in 4.27 seconds.
http://www.titansonline.com/team/roster/Donnie-Avery/AVE422211

[ciaomichael]

Flowers is a good defensive back. At VT, he was coached up by one of the best defensive back coaches in college - a guy by the name of Torrian Gray. VT has put numerous cornerbacks and safeties in the NFL over the past 15 years. Keep an eye on the up-and-comers from there: Kyle Fuller, Antone Exum, and - further down the road - a couple of freshman, Kendall Fuller and Brandon Facyson, that are absolutely spectacular. Common traits about all the VT defensive backs is that they will hit like hell, are great in run support, and have very solid technique.

I do agree that Flowers is ideally suited for the nickel and playing against the slot receiver.

[ThaVirus]

And McCluster ran a 4.58 and I think we can agree he's faster than both of them. Avery ran a 4.49 at the combine and he's probably one of the 10-15 fastest players in the league. The 40 time is overrated IMO.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Based on my eye test, their speed is a wash.