If we could have an improvement right now with the Chiefs...

[Rain Man]

...where would it be?

Poll to follow. You get to pick one unit. And unit is a funny word when you really think about it. Unit, unit, unit. It sounds like an alien word that we got from Roswell.

But I digress. Poll to follow.

The Rules:

Assume that we could get an incremental improvement of, say 10 to 15 percent. We're not talking about replacing our unit with a Hall of Fame unit. Just a bump in performance.

[ChiefsCountry]

QB

[Mr. Laz]

Wide Receiver


(i think the Oline will get there on it's own)
(15% isn't good enough to get us a long term franchise QB)

[Jakemall]

OL, TE, then WR

[DaneMcCloud]

Wide Receiver/Tight Ends.

A 15% improvement for Alex Smith isn't going to make a difference when his receivers drop balls that should be caught.

[Sorter]

QB.

If Alex is 15% better, he'd dominate.

[hometeam]

I have to vote oline, because 15% isn't enough for QB position, and literally, 10-15% will help most on the oline.

Its also something that is feasible.

[BlackHelicopters]

QB, OLine, Recievers

[Molitoth]

As much as I want to vote for the WR's because of dropped balls... the QB touches the ball on every play. If we can get %15 better on every snap of the game, that will help the most I'd say.

[bricks]

Oline and wide receivers. No question in mind.

[Mr. Laz]

now that the poll is up i am torn between WR/TE and coaching


increasing coaching by 15% could potentially increase the output of the entire offensive side of the ball.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

OL,WR,TE

[Mr. Laz]

Oline and wide receivers. No question in mind.

that's 2 groups ... you have to pick one

[mr. tegu]

Offensive line because of the trickle effect it would have. Alex would probably improve by a decent margin and Charles would produce a huge improvement with 10-15% larger or more consistent holes to run through.

[teedubya]

Alex Smith hasn't been horrible... his receivers and OL have been.

[warrior]

Wide receiver/play calling on offense

[DaneMcCloud]

Offensive line because of the trickle effect it would have. Alex would probably improve by a decent margin and Charles would produce a huge improvement with 10-15% larger or more consistent holes to run through.

Charles would improve if Reid decided to give Knile Davis 10 touches a game.

Davis has, IMO, shown that he's ready for action these past two games.

[gold_and_red]

Wide receiver/play calling on offense

I still dunno what Pederson does. The O is all about Reid and his philosophy and playcalling. The last I checked Reid is a HC and not a coordinator. Is Reid trying to wear too many hats just like how Romeo and Haley did previously. Is he not trusting his O coaches enough?

[DaFace]

As a unit, improving the OL would have the most impact. That would improve our running game and allow the passing game to improve marginally as Alex runs for his life less.

[ILChief]

You knew CP would pick QB. I voted OL. Smith being marginally better wouldn't make that much difference. OL being a little better would help more with running and passing and TOP

[Jakemall]

QB.

If Alex is 15% better, he'd dominate.

I agree with this. Hell a 5% improvement is huge.

I just don't think it is reasonable to expect a 15% improvement in the QB position.

[ILChief]

I still dunno what Pederson does. The O is all about Reid and his philosophy and playcalling. The last I checked Reid is a HC and not a coordinator. Is Reid trying to wear too many hats just like how Romeo and Haley did previously. Is he not trusting his O coaches enough?

Reid has a track record of doing both. Haley and Romeo did not

[Rain Man]

I went with OL, because I think that improvement would really boost our running game, and I think that if Alex has time he makes the right decisions, even if the execution isn't always there.

The think that I like about this is that our oline is quite young. Three of our five starters have basically one year or less of starting experience. It's not unreasonable to assume that they'll get better.

[ThaVirus]

QB, no question.

After that I'd go OL and follow it up very closely with WRs.

[ReynardMuldrake]

The #1 thing that sticks out to me is that Alex and our receivers don't seem to have any chemistry at all. Whoever you blame that on, that would be my first area of improvement.

[KC_Lee]

WR. As limited as Smith is as a QB our WR corps is not doing him any favors.

Too many dropped passes when the receiver was wide open or had a step on the defender.

[Rain Man]

I still dunno what Pederson does. The O is all about Reid and his philosophy and playcalling. The last I checked Reid is a HC and not a coordinator. Is Reid trying to wear too many hats just like how Romeo and Haley did previously. Is he not trusting his O coaches enough?

A friend asked me last night who calls the plays for KC, and the funny thing is that I couldn't even remember Pederson's name. I wasn't sure if Reid was calling the plays or "whoever our OC is". I was embarrassed that I couldn't remember, but Pederson has been virtually invisible this year.

[ThaVirus]

Charles would improve if Reid decided to give Knile Davis 10 touches a game.

Davis has, IMO, shown that he's ready for action these past two games.

Yep. I thought he did EXTREMELY well with the limited touches he had last night and it seemed the coaching staff agreed as he replaced Demps at KR later in the game (not that it matter much in DEN against Prater).

It was strange that he became a non-factor after that nice stretch of plays leading up to his screen play setting us up at the 2 yard line. Then again, it's not so strange. This coaching staff really makes a ton of questionable calls every game. Not only in the play calling but also in personnel decisions.

Long story short, give the kid more carries and see what he can do. We can have him lined up in the backfield with Jamaal lined up wide if they're reluctant to take Charles off the field.

[bricks]

that's 2 groups ... you have to pick one

Oops. My bad. I didn't even look at the poll. :D

[TEX]

I went with OL, because I think that improvement would really boost our running game, and I think that if Alex has time he makes the right decisions, even if the execution isn't always there.

The think that I like about this is that our oline is quite young. Three of our five starters have basically one year or less of starting experience. It's not unreasonable to assume that they'll get better.

:clap: This
The O-Line is the weak link of the team. Improve it and everything else on offense will also.

[mr. tegu]

Charles would improve if Reid decided to give Knile Davis 10 touches a game.

Davis has, IMO, shown that he's ready for action these past two games.

If only there were enough touches in the run game to go around for that. Reid has moments in the game where he gets really pass happy and just completely ignores the run.

[bricks]

Offensive line. That's where it all starts.

Would love to have both receivers and oline improve because Im greedy that way.

[DaneMcCloud]

Long story short, give the kid more carries and see what he can do.

:facepalm:

The biggest issue with rookie running backs are the protection calls. Does the RB know the offense, know the calls and if an audible is called, adjust?

It's not about "see what he can do!". That's bullshit.

Davis has shown the past few weeks that he has a firm grasp of the offense and he's done well in limited touches. My opinion is that he needs to see about 10 touches the next few games in order to give Charles a break.

He's a big dude with 4.3 speed with good vision. He can help the team.

[Lzen]

1. QB
2. Oline
3. Receivers

[the Talking Can]

QB


until the best player on our offense is our QB, we're spinning our wheels...been waiting decades

[ThaVirus]

:facepalm:

The biggest issue with rookie running backs are the protection calls. Does the RB know the offense, know the calls and if an audible is called, adjust?

It's not about "see what he can do!". That's bullshit.

Davis has shown the past few weeks that he has a firm grasp of the offense and he's done well in limited touches. My opinion is that he needs to see about 10 touches the next few games in order to give Charles a break.

He's a big dude with 4.3 speed with good vision. He can help the team.

What? Now you're just arguing with me for the hell of it.

That may be the biggest issue with most running backs, but with Knile's previous history, and even some drops/muffs/fumbles he's had this season in limited touches, his issue is moreso ball security. Alex rarely, if ever, calls audibles at the line so that isn't much of a factor.

He's averaging 2.4 touches per game this season. It's absolutely about seeing what the kid can do.

[DaneMcCloud]

What? Now you're just arguing with me for the hell of it.


I'm arguing with you because I happen to believe you're a fucking idiot that talks out of his ass.

[Easy 6]

The O line, those guys are just pathetic, as i've said before they don't have a strength... cant run block, cant pass block.

They aren't physical, aren't nasty, almost never get any push in the run, rarely get out to the second level... they. suck.

Maybe they need to stop catching ****ing passes in practice and start, you know, working on their blocking.

Jamaal Charles longest run on the year? 35 yards, pathetic.

[ThaVirus]

I'm arguing with you because I happen to believe you're a ****ing idiot that talks out of his ass.

Honestly, you're a fucking idiot and a blathering old fool.

You said Davis has shown that he's ready for more action; I FUCKING AGREED WITH YOU in saying that we should give him more reps to see what he's got. Now you're telling me its not about seeing what the kid can do with more reps?

[mnchiefsguy]

QB, WR, O-line. All are lacking at the moment, and it shows on the field.

[mr. tegu]

The O line, those guys are just pathetic, as i've said before they don't have a strength... cant run block, cant pass block.

They aren't physical, aren't nasty, almost never get any push in the run, rarely get out to the second level... they. suck.

Maybe they need to stop catching ****ing passes in practice and start, you know, working on their blocking.

Jamaal Charles longest run on the year? 35 yards, pathetic.

How many rushes have we had within the five yard line that haven't scored? Far too many is all I can say for sure.

[DaneMcCloud]

Honestly, you're a fucking idiot and a blathering old fool.

You said Davis has shown that he's ready for more action; I FUCKING AGREED WITH YOU in saying that we should give him more reps to see what he's got. Now you're telling me its not about seeing what the kid can do with more reps?

See what he's got?

JFC, you dildo, giving players reps has absolutely nothing to do with showing fans "what he's got". Either the coaches feel comfortable with his knowledge of the protections, his fumbling issue, etc. or they don't.

Head coaches in the NFL don't just don't say "Okay, kid. Let's see what you've got!".

:facepalm:

[fan4ever]

I've had a problem with the play calling but I also know you can't call plays your team can't execute.

[DaneMcCloud]

How many rushes have we had within the five yard line that haven't scored? Far too many is all I can say for sure.

That's play calling and scheme.

Reid should know his offense's weaknesses by this point.

[Easy 6]

How many rushes have we had within the five yard line that haven't scored? Far too many is all I can say for sure.

I don't know either, but its definitely too many.

They just flat out aren't physical, but they're not finesse either... its awful, i sure hope we can get some big, mean HOSS mfers next year.

[scho63]

Alex Smith hasn't been horrible... his receivers and OL have been.

This is the correct answer :D

Our O line followed by our receivers-they are both competing very evenly for the "Suck of the Year" award.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't know either, but its definitely too many.

They just flat out aren't physical, but they're not finesse either... its awful, i sure hope we can get some big, mean HOSS mfers next year.

Reid should be spreading out the defense in goal line situations to create running lanes for the back or Smith himself.

He's been patently predictable in those situations.

[Bwana]

Oline and wide receivers. No question in mind.

This

[scho63]

Reid should be spreading out the defense in goal line situations to create running lanes for the back or Smith himself.

He's been patently predictable in those situations.

Why the hell didn't we try at least ONE pass on the first and goal from the two?

That baffles the hell out of me. :doh!:

[Easy 6]

Reid should be spreading out the defense in goal line situations to create running lanes for the back or Smith himself.

He's been patently predictable in those situations.

I can only think of one play near the goal line (against Houston iirc) where we did spread them out and had all kinds of motion and shifts... lo and behold JC ran in basically untouched.

Better scheme would certainly help, but i still hate this ineffectual line... if they could just do one thing right it'd help tremendously.

[Rain Man]

Why the hell didn't we try at least ONE pass on the first and goal from the two?

That baffles the hell out of me. :doh!:

I'll hesitantly say that I like running straight up the middle on first and goal from the two. If you can't make two yards in three plays, it's telling.

If you don't do that, then a quarterback option. I love quarterback options inside the five. I'm not a huge fan of passing inside the five. The field's too compressed.

[DaneMcCloud]

I can only think of one play near the goal line (against Houston iirc) where we did spread them out and had all kinds of motion and shifts... lo and behold JC ran in basically untouched.

Better scheme would certainly help, but i still hate this ineffectual line... if they could just do one thing right it'd help tremendously.

I've been saying since game one that this offensive line is struggling (if not outright ineffective) in the interior. But in Game Ten, Reid should know the strengths and limitations of his offensive line and adjust accordingly.

His playcalling in goal line situations (and often in the Red Zone, period) have been uncreative and at times, excruciating to watch. While they certainly have issues with the receivers and tight ends (and QB ball delivery), Reid hasn't been helping matters much.

He seems to be coaching as if he's got Jackson, Maclin, Shady and Celek instead of Bowe, Avery, Charles and Fasano. In other words, he's not calling plays suitable for his personnel.

[ChiefsCountry]

Alex Smith is taking sacks like he always does. His whole career he has averaged 2.5 sacks per game. He actually took more under Harbaugh than he did in the suck years in San Fran.

[ThaVirus]

I'll hesitantly say that I like running straight up the middle on first and goal from the two. If you can't make two yards in three plays, it's telling.

If you don't do that, then a quarterback option. I love quarterback options inside the five. I'm not a huge fan of passing inside the five. The field's too compressed.

This is what it comes down to for me. I liked the three straight run calls. If Aaron Rodgers was our QB? Fuck no, you need to mix in a pass or two.

With Alex Smith, though, and our offensive line, you're really risking a huge sack in that situation.

[TheUte]

Trick question, 15% improvement in O-line would equate to 15% improvement for QB and WR.

[ThaVirus]

See what he's got?

JFC, you dildo, giving players reps has absolutely nothing to do with showing fans "what he's got". Either the coaches feel comfortable with his knowledge of the protections, his fumbling issue, etc. or they don't.

Head coaches in the NFL don't just don't say "Okay, kid. Let's see what you've got!".

:facepalm:

Until you can simulate live game situations in practice, this is just wrong.

I agree that they don't just throw a player out there blindly. "Hey, kid, let's see if you can make some shit happen!". I'm saying you never know how a guy will produce until he does so in actual games. As he's only averaged 2.4 touches per game, we don't really know how he'll produce if given a heavier work load. Hence the, "we need to see what the kid can do".

[Easy 6]

I've been saying since game one that this offensive line is struggling (if not outright ineffective) in the interior. But in Game Ten, Reid should know the strengths and limitations of his offensive line and adjust accordingly.

His playcalling in goal line situations (and often in the Red Zone, period) have been uncreative and at times, excruciating to watch. While they certainly have issues with the receivers and tight ends (and QB ball delivery), Reid hasn't been helping matters much.

He seems to be coaching as if he's got Jackson, Maclin, Shady and Celek instead of Bowe, Avery, Charles and Fasano. In other words, he's not calling plays suitable for his personnel.

Its true, he hasn't been very creative down there, i expected better from him in that regard.

[Sandy Vagina]

OL .. and it isn't even close.

[chiefzilla1501]

I think it was peter kings article that said Reid walked into meetings with a spring in his step and Pedersen and Childress have bags under their eyes. I think those two serve a much bigger purpose than people realize. But in the end, players have to execute.

[TEX]

OL .. and it isn't even close.

This

[chiefzilla1501]

I want to see more of the second quarter and second to last drive Alex smith. And we need to stop congratulating him for not making mistakes. What I want is a QB who can manage games. That means playing it safe when we control the pace, and taking risks when we don't.

Because smith isn't asked to take control like that, he can sometimes look out of place when he does. I want his mentality to change. There have to be games where it's okay for him to make mistakes because one or two mistakes is okay. I think he has it in him but he has to be encouraged to do it. His back shoulder throw to McCluster is a great example of that.

And I'd have to think if he took more chances, he could get rid of the ball a hell of a lot faster.

[RealSNR]

Why the hell didn't we try at least ONE pass on the first and goal from the two?

That baffles the hell out of me. :doh!:

We had the right idea. I'm not a huge fan of throwing in those situations.

Most of the blame for not getting a TD in that situation lies with Reid not putting his personnel in the right positions to get 2 yards on 3 tries. You can also question him for not going for it on 4th down, since it is Denver after all, and it's better to not score points with the opposing team backed up at their own 1 yard line than it is to not score points with the opposing team starting close to midfield.

[Mr. Laz]

I think it was peter kings article that said Reid walked into meetings with a spring in his step and Pedersen and Childress have bags under their eyes. I think those two serve a much bigger purpose than people realize. But in the end, players have to execute.
maybe Reid has decided to pull back and give him some time and delegate more.

If that is the case then Pederson is not getting the job done


our basics are shit ... no excuse for that

[TheUte]

When you can't convert 3rd and 1 or 3rd and goal from inside the 5 yard line you got O-line issues. With a back like JC and 3rd and short should be a given.

[Chiefnj2]

I want his mentality to change.

He's a vet. He's not going to change. He is what he is.

[Rain Man]

I like the fact that it's a complete dead heat after 112 votes.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Sorry to break the tie, but the O-Line is the glaring problem on this team. A 10-15% increase would make us Super Bowl Contenders this year IMO.

[lcarus]

:facepalm:

The biggest issue with rookie running backs are the protection calls. Does the RB know the offense, know the calls and if an audible is called, adjust?

It's not about "see what he can do!". That's bullshit.

Davis has shown the past few weeks that he has a firm grasp of the offense and he's done well in limited touches. My opinion is that he needs to see about 10 touches the next few games in order to give Charles a break.

He's a big dude with 4.3 speed with good vision. He can help the team.

The dude was agreeing with you with his post.

[keg in kc]

I think a 15% improvement at quarterback would have a greater overall impact on the unit than anything else. It would allow for a change in the offensive playcalling, and I think it would have a snowball effect on the execution at every level of the offense. I think it would help to elevate the performance of literally everybody on the unit. I don't think you can say that for any other position or group, including the o-line.

[Reaper16]

Interior O-Line is the biggest problem with this team. But improving that unit still doesn't get rid of Alex Smith's limitations, it merely lets you run your playbook with more confidence. Improving the QB position would pay bigger immediate dividends for this team.

[saphojunkie]

I just don't think a 15% improvement of Alex Smith would be significant enough. But improving by 15% across the board of his receiving targets would be.

Would I want just Alex Smith better, or Bowe, Avery, McCluster, Fasano, McGrath, and Hemmingway?

Pretty simple for me.

[scho63]

People voting for "Our Quarterbacks" just have a negative Alex Smith bias and really aren't watching very well.

I realize their postings don't hold a very analytic or realistic view point if that is truly their answer.

[chiefzilla1501]

People voting for "Our Quarterbacks" just have a negative Alex Smith bias and really aren't watching very well.

I realize their postings don't hold a very analytic or realistic view point if that is truly their answer.

Alex Smith has to start throwing his guys open, get rid of the ball quicker, and has to loosen up defenses so they're not stacking the box.

Doing the first improves the WRs and helps him get rid of the ball faster, doing the second improves the o-line, doing the third helps our run offense immensely.

I don't have an Alex Smith bias. But reality is reality.

[scho63]

Alex Smith has to start throwing his guys open, get rid of the ball quicker, and has to loosen up defenses so they're not stacking the box.

Doing the first improves the WRs and helps him get rid of the ball faster, doing the second improves the o-line, doing the third helps our run offense immensely.

I don't have an Alex Smith bias. But reality is reality.

Our receivers SUCK at getting separation and in the last 10 games, Alex Smith has made a lot of great throws only to have another dropped pass cost us.

Up until last night, he has been pretty good at not taking stupid sacks.

Throwing to covered receivers? He has spent time going through his progressions nicely and I don't want to see 3-4 INT's each game like Cassel!

Our O line has been piss poor in run and pass blocking. Charles has worked for every damn yard he has gotten.

I'm not sure how you can make Alex Smith the scapegoat because he is not. :harumph:

[Sandy Vagina]

All starts up front. Alex had a good OL in 2012 and led the League in efficiency. He would be doing that in KC if their OL was good... but they are not.

[Brock]

Alex can't read. Glaringly obvious last night.

[ciaomichael]

It's close between the OL and receivers, but I honestly think we could benefit more immediately by an improvement in our receivers. Improvement in the OL is more of a long-term developmental thing. We could have a special season going now, and if we could eliminate these dropped passes, that would have the most impact on overall performance. Sure, a little bit more separation and more precise route running would help, but some focus as in just CATCHING the damn ball when it's thrown your way would be huge.

[Cannibal]

Smith hasn't been great this year, but the receivers have let him down so many times.

[DJ's left nut]

A 50% improvement in any unit? Easy - QB.

A mere 15% improvement in the QB wouldn't make a difference with the rest of this team, however. You'd still have an averageish QB playing with a tripe O-line and substandard weapons.

I'll take a 15% improvement in the WR/TE units at this point and if not there, the O-Line. Folks, these pass-catchers are abysmal. Anyone that's still running this "well who cares, Smith wouldn't do anything with them" line is just not paying attention.

These guys are baaaaad.

[O.city]

Yeah, josh Gordon and tony g would have made a huge difference. Oh well.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, josh Gordon and tony g would have made a huge difference. Oh well.

We seem to be leaving about 100 yards of offense and 7-10 pts on the field each week with these guys. And that's not even considering the times drives may have been extended.

And they're getting worse by the week.

[O.city]

We seem to be leaving about 100 yards of offense and 7-10 pts on the field each week with these guys. And that's not even considering the times drives may have been extended.

And they're getting worse by the week.

Yeah, but we can't talk about that here, it's not on them.

Alex smith sucks, amiright?

[chiefzilla1501]

Our receivers SUCK at getting separation and in the last 10 games, Alex Smith has made a lot of great throws only to have another dropped pass cost us.

Up until last night, he has been pretty good at not taking stupid sacks.

Throwing to covered receivers? He has spent time going through his progressions nicely and I don't want to see 3-4 INT's each game like Cassel!

Our O line has been piss poor in run and pass blocking. Charles has worked for every damn yard he has gotten.

I'm not sure how you can make Alex Smith the scapegoat because he is not. :harumph:

I'm not making him out to be a scapegoat. Like I said, there are games where managing games is not enough.

His receivers aren't great at getting separation. But as Peter King showed, he is missing wide open reads to hit his checkdown and he does it regularly. Defenses stack the box to stop the run because they don't think Smith will throw downfield. And whereas elite QBs are throwing back shoulder throws and threading passes into tight spaces, Smith pretty regularly throws to a wide open man and way too often gets the ball to the right man a few seconds too late.

He is a big reason why we are 9-1. He's also a big reason why we may not be legit contenders unless he changes. He's proven he can take what he's given. There are games where he has to do more than that, and yesterday was one of them. I don't want our team to continually rely on our defense to make game-changing plays in the final seconds of a game.

[ThaVirus]

The dude was agreeing with you with his post.

Shhh. Let him keep being an idiot.

[Easy 6]

And they're getting worse by the week.

That's the crazy thing about it, not only are they not getting any better, they're actually getting worse as we go, not one of them has anything close to what you would call sure hands.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm not making him out to be a scapegoat. Like I said, there are games where managing games is not enough.

His receivers aren't great at getting separation. But as Peter King showed, he is missing wide open reads to hit his checkdown and he does it regularly. Defenses stack the box to stop the run because they don't think Smith will throw downfield. And whereas elite QBs are throwing back shoulder throws and threading passes into tight spaces, Smith pretty regularly throws to a wide open man and way too often gets the ball to the right man a few seconds too late.

He is a big reason why we are 9-1. He's also a big reason why we may not be legit contenders unless he changes. He's proven he can take what he's given. There are games where he has to do more than that, and yesterday was one of them. I don't want our team to continually rely on our defense to make game-changing plays in the final seconds of a game.

A) That wasn't Peter King, it was just his website. Please don't mistake actual analysis for anyting King has ever written.

B) Yes, a couple of those plays he posted were pretty bad. 2 of the 4 were also extremely defensible and/or flat out intelligent decisions.

Smith cut it loose a fair amount yesterday - 12 passes over 20 yards in fact. You saw what we got for our efforts. Drops and passes batted away easily because DBs can close on these WRs so easily that anything downfield is in trouble.

Throwing downfield with these weapons is looking like a worse idea by the day. When he does it, they invariably fuck it up.

[keg in kc]

Yeah, but we can't talk about that here, it's not on them.

Alex smith sucks, amiright?Picking QB as the thing someone would most like to upgrade doesn't mean they don't consider the other options issues, too.

[DJ's left nut]

That's the crazy thing about it, not only are they not getting any better, they're actually getting worse as we go, not one of them has anything close to what you would call sure hands.

I said it in another thread, but I was simply floored by how easily DRC was able to toy with Dwayne Bowe yesterday. It was like turning down the AI opponent speed to 80% or something in Madden; he just ran circles around Bowe.

Last night was the first night that I really watched Bowe and thought he might actually be shot. It wasn't effort - he simply has no speed at all left. He has no quickness and he's never been a particularly adept route-runner. We threw him the damn ball 14 times yesterday and they were simply easy coverage plays because he's incapable of keeping distance.

Had you asked me this question on Friday I'd have gone with the O-Line. But after watching Bowe be completely ineffective and watching Avery botch perhaps the biggest play of the night, we need those weapons at WR/TE.

[O.city]

Picking QB as the thing someone would most like to upgrade doesn't mean they don't consider the other options issues, too.

Yeah, but without big upgrades around him, how much of an upgrade at qb will it take?

[ThaVirus]

I said it in another thread, but I was simply floored by how easily DRC was able to toy with Dwayne Bowe yesterday. It was like turning down the AI opponent speed to 80% or something in Madden; he just ran circles around Bowe.

Last night was the first night that I really watched Bowe and thought he might actually be shot. It wasn't effort - he simply has no speed at all left. He has no quickness and he's never been a particularly adept route-runner. We threw him the damn ball 14 times yesterday and they were simply easy coverage plays because he's incapable of keeping distance.

Had you asked me this question on Friday I'd have gone with the O-Line. But after watching Bowe be completely ineffective and watching Avery botch perhaps the biggest play of the night, we need those weapons at WR/TE.

I agree that Bowe looks extremely slow at points, but in his defense Rodgers-Cromartie is VERY fast and, despite the overall suck of the Broncos pass defense, has played pretty well this season.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, but without big upgrades around him, how much of an upgrade at qb will it take?

Unless it's a huge upgrade at QB - none.

You really would need a Brady/Brees/Manning/Rodgers type to make chicken salad out of this chicken shit.

Wilson, Ryan, Romo, Eli, Flacco, Kaepernick; all the usual 2nd tier badasses wouldn't be able to do much with these guys.

[O.city]

I said it in another thread, but I was simply floored by how easily DRC was able to toy with Dwayne Bowe yesterday. It was like turning down the AI opponent speed to 80% or something in Madden; he just ran circles around Bowe.

Last night was the first night that I really watched Bowe and thought he might actually be shot. It wasn't effort - he simply has no speed at all left. He has no quickness and he's never been a particularly adept route-runner. We threw him the damn ball 14 times yesterday and they were simply easy coverage plays because he's incapable of keeping distance.

Had you asked me this question on Friday I'd have gone with the O-Line. But after watching Bowe be completely ineffective and watching Avery botch perhaps the biggest play of the night, we need those weapons at WR/TE.

Bowe also quits upon contact, which isn't normal for him. Or it wasn't.

[Simply Red]

:facepalm:

The biggest issue with rookie running backs are the protection calls. Does the RB know the offense, know the calls and if an audible is called, adjust?

It's not about "see what he can do!". That's bullshit.

Davis has shown the past few weeks that he has a firm grasp of the offense and he's done well in limited touches. My opinion is that he needs to see about 10 touches the next few games in order to give Charles a break.

He's a big dude with 4.3 speed with good vision. He can help the team.

I'm pulling hard for young Miles.

[O.city]

We don't have any wrs with any short area quickness, that can get open very easily.

And after watching some of it again, people want smith to throw into tight windows and such, he did yesterday, or at least tried to. Wrs have to compete for catches when he does.

[Gravedigger]

The reason I went with QB over Oline is because Alex had 4-5 seconds on all of his sacks to get the ball out or scramble out of the pocket, he didn't. Alex holds onto the ball too long because he outthinks himself and is too scared to pull the trigger. The Oline is not as bad as the WR's and QB atm. At the beginning of the year sure, but not now.

[ThaVirus]

Yeah, but without big upgrades around him, how much of an upgrade at qb will it take?

A 15% improvement from Smith would be HUGE, in my opinion.

It could be the difference in scoring a TD with a wide open Fasano, McGrath and possibly even Sherman in that one game recently. The difference in hitting Avery, Bowe and Charles down the sidelines we've been a hair off on all season. The difference in taking dumbass sacks that take us out of field goal range and stall drives. The difference in reading the defense before the snap and recognizing that you have one of the fastest RBs in the league split out wide in 1-on-1 coverage by a LB...

[O.city]

I really wish we had access to all22 footage. It would be interesting to see.

[chiefzilla1501]

A) That wasn't Peter King, it was just his website. Please don't mistake actual analysis for anyting King has ever written.

B) Yes, a couple of those plays he posted were pretty bad. 2 of the 4 were also extremely defensible and/or flat out intelligent decisions.

Smith cut it loose a fair amount yesterday - 12 passes over 20 yards in fact. You saw what we got for our efforts. Drops and passes batted away easily because DBs can close on these WRs so easily that anything downfield is in trouble.

Throwing downfield with these weapons is looking like a worse idea by the day. When he does it, they invariably **** it up.

Smith is what he is. What I see is a guy who has a pretty set progression. Either a designed quick read or a quick look then a checkdown. If it isn't one of those two options, he waits for a guy to break open instead of finding ways to make the ball find an open receiver.

On one deep ball (i think to Dex), he was completely covered, but he had inside position. Smith sailed it 10 yards over his head instead of maybe trying to throw to his back shoulder. On many occasions yesterday and in other games, he made a decent read but got it there a few seconds too late. But in games like yesterday, I just don't like the mentality that you have to find a wide open man to justify getting rid of the ball.

I agree that the receivers are part of the problem. But you can't convince me that our receivers are worse than when New England played with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as their #1 and #2 guys. Good QBs find ways to get their players open, and Smith just doesn't, and that's even with defenders stacking the box and daring him to throw.

I don't buy that he can't do better even with bad receiving talent.

[Easy 6]

I said it in another thread, but I was simply floored by how easily DRC was able to toy with Dwayne Bowe yesterday. It was like turning down the AI opponent speed to 80% or something in Madden; he just ran circles around Bowe.

Last night was the first night that I really watched Bowe and thought he might actually be shot. It wasn't effort - he simply has no speed at all left. He has no quickness and he's never been a particularly adept route-runner. We threw him the damn ball 14 times yesterday and they were simply easy coverage plays because he's incapable of keeping distance.

Had you asked me this question on Friday I'd have gone with the O-Line. But after watching Bowe be completely ineffective and watching Avery botch perhaps the biggest play of the night, we need those weapons at WR/TE.

Yeah, it sucks... we needed him to be at his very best with the weak depth we have this year, but he's playing his worst ball ever.

Avery on the other hand, routinely gets open but cant catch jack... we don't have one steady threat.

[chiefzilla1501]

Unless it's a huge upgrade at QB - none.

You really would need a Brady/Brees/Manning/Rodgers type to make chicken salad out of this chicken shit.

Wilson, Ryan, Romo, Eli, Flacco, Kaepernick; all the usual 2nd tier badasses wouldn't be able to do much with these guys.

Not all of those guys have exactly played with badass talent. Eli and Flacco have had some pretty average receivers to throw to a lot of their careers.

[DJ's left nut]

Not all of those guys have exactly played with badass talent. Eli and Flacco have had some pretty average receivers to throw to a lot of their careers.

I think you're wildly understating how bad we are. Especially when you consider the amount of pressure Smith faces. Dwayne Bowe's looked a lot like Jon Baldwin for most of this season.

And you're flat wrong about Eli - that guy's has some pretty talented WRs to throw to for almost his entire career.

[Wallcrawler]

Alex Smith hasn't been horrible... his receivers and OL have been.

Disagree.

80% of his passes this season have not gone more than 10 yards past the LOS. Some of this is by design, but I cannot believe that 80% of our passing plays are specificly designed to not gain more than 10 yards. He's taking the safe, easy checkdown rather than making the read and delivering a football that one of our guys has a shot to make a play on.

Alex will ALWAYS take a 1-2 yard pass to an open checkdown over a chance at a big play where his man is one on one.

When he does go downfield (5% at 20+ yards), they are overthrown, or thrown into the dirt at the feet of the receiver.

Alex has also missed so damn many wide open receivers that its simply inexcusable to keep letting that go unaddressed.

Take the play last night where Charles lined up on the linebacker one on one. Huge matchup, and just as Charles released off the line and began to get a step on his man, Alex had already thrown the football into the dirt 1.2 seconds after taking the snap.

He never once considered Charles as an option. He certainly never made a pre-snap read, and once the ball was snapped, he never even began any sort of progression, he just chunked it into the dirt.


Alex needs all the improvement he can get. Andy's hilarious press conference comments about this being a "young team" as the reasoning for the ineptitude of the offense has seriously shaken my opinion of his ability to reason.

Alex Smith is not a young quarterback. Hes been in the league for several years now, and if he hasn't learned how to identify mismatches in coverage, and if he hasn't found the confidence to forego that safe checkdown and put the ball up downfield for his guy to have a shot at some real yardage, then he's likely not going to. He's 29 years old.

[007]

15% right now? OL

[O.city]

As bad as I think out wr threats are and tes, I think thud be great a spot lower on the chart.

Like Bowe as the roddy to the falcons Julio kind of thing.

Fuck, I'd have really liked to have seen a move for Gordon.

[DJ's left nut]

Smith is what he is. What I see is a guy who has a pretty set progression. Either a designed quick read or a quick look then a checkdown. If it isn't one of those two options, he waits for a guy to break open instead of finding ways to make the ball find an open receiver.

On one deep ball (i think to Dex), he was completely covered, but he had inside position. Smith sailed it 10 yards over his head instead of maybe trying to throw to his back shoulder. On many occasions yesterday and in other games, he made a decent read but got it there a few seconds too late. But in games like yesterday, I just don't like the mentality that you have to find a wide open man to justify getting rid of the ball.

I agree that the receivers are part of the problem. But you can't convince me that our receivers are worse than when New England played with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as their #1 and #2 guys. Good QBs find ways to get their players open, and Smith just doesn't, and that's even with defenders stacking the box and daring him to throw.

I don't buy that he can't do better even with bad receiving talent.

Oh FFS, you're really going to say "well hell, Brady did it...."?

I already conceded that a great QB can make it work with this pile of shit. But you're talking about HOFers.

No, Joe Flacco wouldn't have won a damn thing with Reche Caldwell. Matt Ryan never won shit until White and Julio showed up. But you folks would murder your mothers to get Matt Ryan in here.

Yes, Peyton Manning could win with these guys. As could Aaron Rodgers. But you're looking at a hell of a lot more than a 15% improvement to get to those folks.

[O.city]

Marquise lee will look good in red

[ViperVisor]

A 10% improvement in QB is worth 20% or more improvement in the other areas.

But that improvement hope is what leads to a lot of busts because teams are too desperate.

[chiefzilla1501]

Oh FFS, you're really going to say "well hell, Brady did it...."?

I already conceded that a great QB can make it work with this pile of shit. But you're talking about HOFers.

No, Joe Flacco wouldn't have won a damn thing with Reche Caldwell. Matt Ryan never won shit until White and Julio showed up. But you folks would murder your mothers to get Matt Ryan in here.

Yes, Peyton Manning could win with these guys. As could Aaron Rodgers. But you're looking at a hell of a lot more than a 15% improvement to get to those folks.

No, I don't want Matt Ryan. I would murder for an Eli or a Flacco. What I see of Flacco and Eli is that they're pretty average QBs but exceptional game managers. When the game requires them to step up, they do. Like I said, I am fine with the way Smith plays, but when the game requires him to step up, he has to do that.

The receivers and line were horrible in the first half. In the 2nd half, the receivers and o-line were at least good enough for Smith to do something with it. Smith turned the heat up a little bit, but the way the game was flowing, it demanded that Smith take charge. And he missed way too many opportunities to do that. Just as he missed opportunity after opportunity against Buffalo, against Dallas, against Cleveland. In most cases, he's gotten away with it because the defense makes game-changing turnovers or the other team shits the bed. This can't be our model. Smith HAS to learn how to close games, and even 2nd tier QBs like Eli and Flacco just find ways to do that.

Fair point on Brady and Rodgers.

[Psyko Tek]

The #1 thing that sticks out to me is that Alex and our receivers don't seem to have any chemistry at all. Whoever you blame that on, that would be my first area of improvement.

the only chemistry I see is alex and the Beard and he wasn't used enough

[NWTF]

WR/TE but QB is a close second.

[ThaVirus]

I feel like our TEs play pretty well for the most part. I won't pretend like I pay the utmost attention to them when it comes to blocking but they definitely aren't liabilities in the passing game.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Man, I may need a few moments to really dig in and think about this...

[Reerun_KC]

We need to dump the whole WR and Te Corp and start over...


Including Dimebag Slow....Resigning him will be a huge bust...

[BWillie]

The non random distribution of this poal is wonderful

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

We need to dump everyone but Charles and Albert, and start over...


Including Dimebag Slow....Resigning him will be a huge bust...

??? Um...