Why all the man love for Bray?

[penguinz]

I don't understand all the man love for this guy.

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Everyone is in love with his rocket arm. And he's not Alex Smith. idk.

[Old Dog]

Him being the first "name" QB we've drafted since Moby Dick was the size of a minnow may have something to do with it.

[KCUnited]

Because the Chiefs.

[BlackHelicopters]

Peyton Manning.

[penguinz]

Him being the first "name" QB we've drafted since Moby Dick was the size of a minnow may have something to do with it.But we didn't draft him.

[BlackHelicopters]

Him being the first "name" QB we've drafted since Moby Dick was the size of a minnow may have something to do with it.

Wasn't he an UDFA?

[Old Dog]

But we didn't draft him.

True....should have said "Signed"...the point remains.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Throw it deeeeeeeeeeeeep

[Pablo]

Because this fanbase has never had a young QB of our own to crow about, so we latch onto anything that appears youthful and promising. Even if it's some stupid long shot that will likely never amount to anything.

Trading for somebody else's 30+ year old back up is all most of us have ever known.

[Ceej]

Because the Chuefs.

Duh.

[duncan_idaho]

Desperation.

[ModSocks]

It's no different than all the man love for Powe

[Molitoth]

Because he fucking lit it up in the pre-season.

[Donger]

I don't understand all the man love for this guy.

Because it's only man love if you don't pull out.

[Dunerdr]

Its because he has a nice ass and a laser rocket cannon arm, showed a little in preseason, and hes ours.

[duncan_idaho]

Because he ****ing lit it up in the pre-season.

21/40
220 yards
3 TD
1 INT
5 sacks

Yeah, he set the world on fire.

[ROYC75]

I don't understand all the man love for this guy.

Probably our best option for a SB in a couple of years.

[Halfcan]

I doubt Bray could have played worse than Alex yesterday.

[MahiMike]

We need a strong armed QB to throw deep to our blazingly speedy Dwayne Bowe.

[BlackHelicopters]

We need a strong armed QB to throw deep to our blazingly speedy Dwayne Bowe.So he can drop them.

FYP

[Easy 6]

For me, its all about the raw measureables... 6'6 230-240 pounds and bona-fide howitzer arm, you cant teach any of those things.

He's like the Dontari Poe of QB's, off the charts measureables, but his college teams were never quite world beaters and (unlike Poe) he had some very serious character concerns, which is why he went undrafted.

But he did have some pretty nice college accomplishments... his junior year he threw 34td/12int, broke Mannings single game yardage record with 530, 11th best SEC yardage total in history, all in all some pretty damn good stuff.

If Reid can coach this guy up, we'll have the prototype rocket launcher everyone is clamoring for.

[Halfcan]

For me, its all about the raw measureables... 6'6 230-240 pounds and bona-fide howitzer arm, you cant teach any of those things.

He's like the Dontari Poe of QB's, off the charts measureables, but his college teams were never quite world beaters and (unlike Poe) he had some very serious character concerns, which is why he went undrafted.

But he did have some pretty nice college accomplishments... his junior year he threw 34td/12int, broke Mannings single game yardage record with 530, 11th best SEC yardage total in history, all in all some pretty damn good stuff.

If Reid can coach this guy up, we'll have the prototype rocket launcher everyone is clamoring for.

Lets hope we get to see him start next year. :thumb:

[Easy 6]

Lets hope we get to see him start next year. :thumb:

Don't hold your breath dude.

IMO, he definitely needs to sit atleast two years, probably even three to get him polished up to the right standard... with his raw talent, it might be well worth the wait.

[Halfcan]

Don't hold your breath dude.

IMO, he definitely needs to sit atleast two years, probably even three to get him polished up to the right standard... with his raw talent, it might be well worth the wait.

Just watched his highlight film- he is slinging 60 yard passes like they are dump offs. :p

[Easy 6]

Just watched his highlight film- he is slinging 60 yard passes like they are dump offs. :p

Heh, oh yeah... the guy can wing it.

11th best season yardage total in SEC history, not too shabby, been a lot of QB's through there over the years.

[Deberg_1990]

I don't understand all the man love for this guy.

Backup QBs are always popular and well loved.







Until they play in a real game..........
Posted via Mobile Device

[duncan_idaho]

For me, its all about the raw measureables... 6'6 230-240 pounds and bona-fide howitzer arm, you cant teach any of those things.

He's like the Dontari Poe of QB's, off the charts measureables, but his college teams were never quite world beaters and (unlike Poe) he had some very serious character concerns, which is why he went undrafted.

But he did have some pretty nice college accomplishments... his junior year he threw 34td/12int, broke Mannings single game yardage record with 530, 11th best SEC yardage total in history, all in all some pretty damn good stuff.

If Reid can coach this guy up, we'll have the prototype rocket launcher everyone is clamoring for.

I think his raw talent gets overstated a bit.

Yes, he's tall and has a strong arm. But he had enough other warts that he went completely undrafted in a weak QB draft class.

Compare him to Ryan Mallet, who was only slightly more productive as a college player and also had some significant character questions/concerns. Mallet still got drafted in the 3rd round in a strong QB class.

There are just too many IFS regarding Bray to place any stock in him being a productive NFL guy until we see it start happening:

Bray could be a good NFL QB ...
... IF he fixes his maturity issues
... IF he improves his footwork and mechanics
... IF he improves his accuracy
... IF he drastically improves his decision making

[Halfcan]

I think his raw talent gets overstated a bit.

Yes, he's tall and has a strong arm. But he had enough other warts that he went completely undrafted in a weak QB draft class.

Compare him to Ryan Mallet, who was only slightly more productive as a college player and also had some significant character questions/concerns. Mallet still got drafted in the 3rd round in a strong QB class.

There are just too many IFS regarding Bray to place any stock in him being a productive NFL guy until we see it start happening:

Bray could be a good NFL QB ...
... IF he fixes his maturity issues
... IF he improves his footwork and mechanics
... IF he improves his accuracy
... IF he drastically improves his decision making


That is a LOT of If's-lol

[penguinz]

Probably our best option for a SB in a couple of years.

If we are putting our hopes of a SB on an undrafted qb with a known lack of good decision making then we will never get there.

[duncan_idaho]

That is a LOT of If's-lol

Right. There are reasons he was an UDFA.

[mcaj22]

The weapons Bray played with in college are sure looking nice for other NFL teams already

[Eleazar]

The Chiefs often have the most popular backup QBs in the league it seems!

[Easy 6]

Bray could be a good NFL QB ...
... IF he fixes his maturity issues
... IF he improves his footwork and mechanics
... IF he improves his accuracy
... IF he drastically improves his decision making

All good reasons why i think he should hold a clipboard for three years.

And while he didn't destroy worlds in the preseason, i thought he did pretty damn good against other teams second and third stringers for as raw as he is... it was enough to give me a bit of hope for his future.

[Mr. Laz]

i don't think people love Bray, they love the potential he brings.

[duncan_idaho]

The weapons Bray played with in college are sure looking nice for other NFL teams already

Hunter, Patterson and Mychal Rivera (TE drafted 7th round by Raiders but having a strong rookie campaign) were pretty outstanding.

Bray's production from his junior campaign at Tennessee is also heavily skewed by his production against the nonconference schedule and the soft part of the SEC schedule.

Against North Carolina State, Akron, Georgia State and Troy, Bray threw 15 TDs vs just 1 int.

He was a much less impressive 17-11 in SEC play. With a 8-0 TD/INT ratio against bad Missouri and Kentucky teams.

[MotherfuckerJones]

He's our most talented QB.

[RunKC]

Bray waves the chocolatiest pen.....oh wait

[RealSNR]

His name rhymes with gay, so a mancrush was just way too convenient to pass up

[htismaqe]

He's the next Brian Shay.

[HemiEd]

Because this fanbase has never had a young QB of our own to crow about, so we latch onto anything that appears youthful and promising. Even if it's some stupid long shot that will likely never amount to anything.

Trading for somebody else's 30+ year old back up is all most of us have ever known.

This. I was a young man in my early thirties the last time the Chiefs drafted one.

[Mr. Laz]

He's the next Geno Smith.

FYP

[ROYC75]

If we are putting our hopes of a SB on an undrafted qb with a known lack of good decision making then we will never get there.

Didn't say we were, that compared to what we have at QB, he's probably our best option in a couple of years.

We know what we have in Smith.
We know what we have in Daniels.

Sure Bray has issues, but we have not seen him with solid # 1 play yet either.

Neither of thew other 2 is going to get us there that's for sure. So really, what do we have to lose?

It's been said before that we need to draft a QB each year until we find a guy that is a clear winner to get us there and a top notch quality back up.

[jd1020]

Backup QBs are always popular and well loved.







Until they play in a real game..........
Posted via Mobile Device

Only true if the team doesn't have a legit starter.

[wink91wink]

Because we were never able to unleash the beast that was Ricky Stanzi

[Fat Elvis]

I don't understand all the man love for this guy.

Gay for Bray

[penguinz]

Didn't say we were, that compared to what we have at QB, he's probably our best option in a couple of years.

We know what we have in Smith.
We know what we have in Daniels.

Sure Bray has issues, but we have not seen him with solid # 1 play yet either.

Neither of thew other 2 is going to get us there that's for sure. So really, what do we have to lose?

It's been said before that we need to draft a QB each year until we find a guy that is a clear winner to get us there and a top notch quality back up.

Again... If he is our best option in a couple of years we are fucked.

[Earthling]

Again... If he is our best option in a couple of years we are ****ed.

Too soon to tell actually.

[penguinz]

Too soon to tell actually.

Actually it isn't. He makes Bowe look like a member of Mensa.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

I don't think Daniel has thrown 10 NFL passes yet. Yet he gets little MU love

[Tribal Warfare]

During last season he was rated as a top 15 pick, before Dooley decided to throw him under the bus when shit wasn't going his way.

He is pinpoint accurate when he can set his feet and launch the ball, but his problem he was he inconsistent doing that because of the shitty coaching and maturity issues.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

#teambray

[penbrook]

#GayforBray

[notorious]

He has a cannon and he's ours.


That's pretty much it.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

He has one of the highest ceilings of any of the drafted QBs...and we didn't gave to draft him.

[Gravedigger]

I don't understand all the man love for this guy.

His ability to throw the ball with such velocity is pretty incredible. When you're talking about the KC Chiefs getting a strong armed QB, it's the rarest of the rare. I think that's why people get so excited, I know that's why I dig him. He still lacks accuracy with some of his throws, decision making isn't a strength, and his footwork could use work, but the only bit we've really seen of him was Preseason Game 4 where he beat up on 2's, 3's and 4's. I think he's a better option than Chase Daniel and I'd give him the ball this Sunday to see what you have in him, but that's if they allow him to suit up.

[BossChief]

If Andy finds a way to combine Alex Smiths preparation routine and ball security and other aspects of the mental part of the NFL game with Brays natural God given talent, we just might have our franchise quarterback we have always wanted.

It's a long shot, but when you look at the factors involved (Andy being a superb teacher type, Alex being an open book type example, the line being so young and growing together) it seems the kid may just get a real shot one day if Alex doesn't show he can play at a high level when we need it the most.

He is extremely raw, but while in camp the kid was beyond impressive for long stretches. He was dropping bombs all camp that were placed PERFECTLY. Not just "nice 40 yard throws" these were PERFECT 55-60 yard bombs.

[Molitoth]

21/40
220 yards
3 TD
1 INT
5 sacks

Yeah, he set the world on fire.

Eye Test > Stats


Do you want to post Alex Smith stats? He's had like 4 good games all season.

[Hammock Parties]

because we're all fucked in the head

[notorious]

because we're all ****ed in the head

/thread

[Red Dawg]

Because this fanbase has never had a young QB of our own to crow about, so we latch onto anything that appears youthful and promising. Even if it's some stupid long shot that will likely never amount to anything.

Trading for somebody else's 30+ year old back up is all most of us have ever known.

Wow! That is pretty dead on. Love me some Tyler Bray.

[ROYC75]

Again... If he is our best option in a couple of years we are ****ed.

May well be, will never know for sure until he plays. Unlike Smith, we know what we have, a quality backup, just not going to be the right guy to carry us if called upon.

We know Chase is nothing but 3rd string material at best.

As of right now, neither of us know what Bray can do until given the option of playing. To me, it's not much better than what we have now, yet only playing him will find out. Smith today, is the same Smith we will see in 2 years, nothing more, nothing less.

Will Tyler ever play,probably not unless Smith gets injured. At least I can not write him off as you can not seeing him play any significant NFL ball. I'm not going to base his reputation merely on college ball. We have seen several college football player fly under the radar to make an NFL roster or even become a starter. There is something about the next level and set of coaches that see potential or is able to reach that potential out of a kid that someone in college could not get.

I trust you can at least see this much.

[BossChief]

This fanbase (in relation to qbs) is similar to a man walking through the desert without any water.

After a while, even a muddy puddle seems like Don P.

[Hammock Parties]

This fanbase (in relation to qbs) is similar to a man walking through the desert without any water.

After a while, even a muddy puddle seems like Don P.

how i used to feel about girls...is how i feel about quarterbacks now

[Red Dawg]

Honestly. I don't see Nick Foles do anything that Bray could not do given the talent arond him.

[duncan_idaho]

Eye Test > Stats


Do you want to post Alex Smith stats? He's had like 4 good games all season.

I was just responding to your "lit it up" comment. He showed off his arm strength and made some impressive throws, but his decision making, consistency and accuracy were all still lackluster/subpar.

I've never believed Alex Smith was the answer and still don't. But that doesn't increase the odds Bray is anything more than roster fodder.

I hope Bray is able to improve in all the areas that need improvement and become an effective NFL QB, but we should pump the brakes as a fanbase on him. He has a lot of flaws to have fixed, and each one decreases the odds he ever is a productive NFL player.

It also doesn't mean we should be satisfied as a fanbase with Bray as the only developmental QB/potential QB of the future on the roster.

Can't pull all our future eggs in the UDFA basket.

[chiefzilla1501]

The guy has a first round skill set and a first grade brain that is hopefully getting whipped into shape.

I love the project. But let's get a more bona fide prospect in the mix too.

[duncan_idaho]

The guy has a first round skill set and a first grade brain that is hopefully getting whipped into shape.

I love the project. But let's get a more bona fide prospect in the mix too.

Exactly! Love Bray as a long-shot developmental prospect. But you can't pull all your eggs in that basket.

[Molitoth]

I was just responding to your "lit it up" comment. He showed off his arm strength and made some impressive throws, but his decision making, consistency and accuracy were all still lackluster/subpar.

I've never believed Alex Smith was the answer and still don't. But that doesn't increase the odds Bray is anything more than roster fodder.

I hope Bray is able to improve in all the areas that need improvement and become an effective NFL QB, but that we shouldn't pump the brakes as a fanbase on him. He has a lot of flaws to have fixed, and each one decreases the odds he ever is a productive NFL player.

It also doesn't mean we should be satisfied as a fanbase with Bray as the only developmental QB/potential QB of the future on the roster.

Can't pull all our future eggs in the UDFA basket.

Oh ok, with that extra info I see we are thinking more alike.
I like what I saw from Bray in the pre-season, but I agree that doesn't mean we stop looking for another QB in the draft.
With the most important position in sports, you can never have enough.
Just keep moving through them until you find the one.

[Mr. Laz]

Again... If he is our best option in a couple of years we are ****ed.
Actually it isn't. He makes Bowe look like a member of Mensa.
So it's ok for you to come to a conclusion before he's played in the NFL but everyone else needs to shut the fuck up?

[penguinz]

So it's ok for you to come to a conclusion before he's played in the NFL but everyone else needs to shut the fuck up?

What are the odds of an undrafted free agent becoming the saviour at QB?. Especially one that is known to make bad decisions.

[loochy]

21/40
220 yards
3 TD
1 INT
5 sacks

Yeah, he set the world on fire.

But if Alex Smith had those numbers people would rave about how he's carrying the team to the Super Bowl.

[duncan_idaho]

But if Alex Smith had those numbers people would rave about how he's carrying the team to the Super Bowl.
Just because a True Fan/Homer says it doesn't mean it's true.

What are the odds of an undrafted free agent becoming the saviour at QB?. Especially one that is known to make bad decisions.

This is why people need to pump the brakes on Bray. There are reasons to be excited about Bray, but he's an EXTREME long-shot to ever be a productive NFL starter.

The size and arm strength are NFL-starter level. Every other aspect of his game - reading defenses, making decisions, throwing the ball consistently and with accuracy, avoiding turnovers, leadership - has to improve from somewhere between "a decent, but coachable, amount" (accuracy/mechanics/consistentcy) to "drastically" (reading defenses, making decisions) to "astronomically" (leadership).

[TheGuardian]

Yes because so many undrafted QB's have won super bowls.

Oh wait..........

God people. I get that you want to develop something we drafted or grabbed off the street but just for the sake of it? Stupid.

[Carlota69]

A friend of mine works for Brays father. Word is, the Organization also has man love for him.

[duncan_idaho]

A friend of mine works for Brays father. Word is, the Organization also has man love for him.

http://growingleaders.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/helicopter-parents.jpg

[lcarus]

For me, its all about the raw measureables... 6'6 230-240 pounds and bona-fide howitzer arm, you cant teach any of those things.

He's like the Dontari Poe of QB's, off the charts measureables, but his college teams were never quite world beaters and (unlike Poe) he had some very serious character concerns, which is why he went undrafted.

But he did have some pretty nice college accomplishments... his junior year he threw 34td/12int, broke Mannings single game yardage record with 530, 11th best SEC yardage total in history, all in all some pretty damn good stuff.

If Reid can coach this guy up, we'll have the prototype rocket launcher everyone is clamoring for.

Plus I hear he's a cocky little asshole. Which I guess is better than a whimpering little pussy like Croyle.

[penguinz]

A friend of mine works for Brays father. Word is, the Organization also has man love for him.

Because they are going to be honest and tell him he was the cheapest option to fill the unnecessary roster spot?

[duncan_idaho]

Because they are going to be honest and tell him he was the cheapest option to fill the unnecessary roster spot?

Or, because...

Helicopter Dad.

[cdcox]

Just because a True Fan/Homer says it doesn't mean it's true.



This is why people need to pump the brakes on Bray. There are reasons to be excited about Bray, but he's an EXTREME long-shot to ever be a productive NFL starter.

The size and arm strength are NFL-starter level. Every other aspect of his game - reading defenses, making decisions, throwing the ball consistently and with accuracy, avoiding turnovers, leadership - has to improve from somewhere between "a decent, but coachable, amount" (accuracy/mechanics/consistentcy) to "drastically" (reading defenses, making decisions) to "astronomically" (leadership).

This. I was going to post the same thing. For example, at Tennessee he basically ran a single read offense. Playing QB at an elite level is a whole lot more about the mental aspects than the physical ones (look at Joe Montana) and Bray isn't much above a high school player in that regard. He was basically the same player each of the 3 years at Tennessee. I have doubts about how coachable he even is.

[penguinz]

But he does have the best tattoo in the NFL!

[ActiveShooter]

What are the odds of an undrafted free agent becoming the saviour at QB?. Especially one that is known to make bad decisions.

Brady was a 6th round pick and JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, David Klinger, Matt Leinert, and Ryan Leaf were all 1st rounders.
You put way way way too much stock in pro scouts' opinions.
Bray was signed at the age of 21 after 3 college seasons with horrid coaching. He turns 22 on Friday. He now has a fiance. There's a strong possibility that he could have matured a bit.
He has an elite arm and ability to deliver a good ball with just the arm. Contrast to David Carr who some want that can't deliver a pass at all with pressure around him(see Bowl game) . If he can't step into his throw, he's done. But his footwork is better. Lol

[duncan_idaho]

Brady was a 6th round pick and JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, David Klinger, Matt Leinert, and Ryan Leaf were all 1st rounders.
You put way way way too much stock in pro scouts' opinions.
Bray was signed at the age of 21 after 3 college seasons with horrid coaching. He turns 22 on Friday. He now has a fiance. There's a strong possibility that he could have matured a bit.
He has an elite arm and ability to deliver a good ball with just the arm. Contrast to David Carr who some want that can't deliver a pass at all with pressure around him(see Bowl game) . If he can't step into his throw, he's done. But his footwork is better. Lol

You realize your argument is based on the BIGGEST lightning strike in the history of the NFL, right?

And that even there, Brady's stock was 1) Held back by his college career/coaching, where he never was given the full-time reins to the job; 2) Still higher than Bray's, as Bray was not drafted by anyone.

If maturity was Bray's only issue, he would have been drafted. It's the combination of warts that makes him such an extreme long-shot. He has a lot.

[ActiveShooter]

You realize your argument is based on the BIGGEST lightning strike in the history of the NFL, right?

And that even there, Brady's stock was 1) Held back by his college career/coaching, where he never was given the full-time reins to the job; 2) Still higher than Bray's, as Bray was not drafted by anyone.

If maturity was Bray's only issue, he would have been drafted. It's the combination of warts that makes him such an extreme long-shot. He has a lot.

How about Kurt Warner or Warren Moon then? Boom

[KC_Lee]

How about Kurt Warner or Warren Moon then? Boom

Or that 3rd rounder Joe Montana.

[ActiveShooter]

You realize your argument is based on the BIGGEST lightning strike in the history of the NFL, right?

And that even there, Brady's stock was 1) Held back by his college career/coaching, where he never was given the full-time reins to the job; 2) Still higher than Bray's, as Bray was not drafted by anyone.

If maturity was Bray's only issue, he would have been drafted. It's the combination of warts that makes him such an extreme long-shot. He has a lot.

Do you realize Bray was held back by inferior coaching? Bray succeeded despite a horrible coaching staff. His phone started ringing off the hook the second the draft was over. Miami and Kc both were bidding for him. He was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick by most all draft "experts". Bray was knocked hard for coming out after his true junior year and Gruden gave him a hard time about it in a horrible interview (Bray's Fault) that destroyed his stock. With Tennessee running the read option under new coach Butch Jones and having a considerable lack of talent for an SEC team, his decision to bail was understandable. However at draft time it was still being viewed as a mistake.

[dj56dt58]

Undrafted free agent doesnt mean he has undrafted free agent talent, many had him going in the first couple of rounds in the draft. I saw mocks with him going in the first round, so obviously he has talent.

[duncan_idaho]

How about Kurt Warner or Warren Moon then? Boom

Warner: Lightning strike (not quite as big as Brady, as Brady is in the running for best ever, while Warner was merely very good-great for a little less than a decade).

Moon: Racism at play.

Overall, there are FAR more successful QBs who have been first-round picks than successful QBs selected/acquired any other way.

The odds still aren't great or better than 50 percent (why you have the Akili Smiths and David Klinglers and etc), but it gives you your best odds of finding a franchise guy and best odds of winning a Super Bowl.

A look at the winning QBs in recent Super Bowl history (past 20 years):

Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees (1st pick of Round 2)
Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Roethlisberger
Brady
Brady
Brad Johnson
Brady
Trent Dilfer
Warner
Elway
Elway
Favre (early second round pick, 33rd overall)
Aikman
Young (weird exception, in that he signed huge deal with USFL out of college. He was the first pick in the USFL expansion draft in 1985 and likely would have been in consideration for first overall in the 1984 draft).

That's 5 (6 if you want to count Young) exceptions in 20 years. With two of those being early 2nd round picks.

Odds slide overwhelmingly towards having a 1st round QB.

[ActiveShooter]

Warner: Lightning strike (not quite as big as Brady, as Brady is in the running for best ever, while Warner was merely very good-great for a little less than a decade).

Moon: Racism at play.

Overall, there are FAR more successful QBs who have been first-round picks than successful QBs selected/acquired any other way.

The odds still aren't great or better than 50 percent (why you have the Akili Smiths and David Klinglers and etc), but it gives you your best odds of finding a franchise guy and best odds of winning a Super Bowl.

A look at the winning QBs in recent Super Bowl history (past 20 years):

Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees (1st pick of Round 2)
Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Roethlisberger
Brady
Brady
Brad Johnson
Brady
Trent Dilfer
Warner
Elway
Elway
Favre (early second round pick, 33rd overall)
Aikman
Young (weird exception, in that he signed huge deal with USFL out of college. He was the first pick in the USFL expansion draft in 1985 and likely would have been in consideration for first overall in the 1984 draft).

That's 5 (6 if you want to count Young) exceptions in 20 years. With two of those being early 2nd round picks.

Odds slide overwhelmingly towards having a 1st round QB.

So I guess Reid should just ignore what he's seen at practice and cut Bray's ass because the CP experts say there's no chance.

[ActiveShooter]

And Alex Smith was #1 overall and he's a poster boy for mediocrity.

[duncan_idaho]

Do you realize Bray was held back by inferior coaching? Bray succeeded despite a horrible coaching staff. His phone started ringing off the hook the second the draft was over. Miami and Kc both were bidding for him. He was projected as a 2nd or 3rd round pick by most all draft "experts". Bray was knocked hard for coming out after his true junior year and Gruden gave him a hard time about it in a horrible interview (Bray's Fault) that destroyed his stock. With Tennessee running the read option under new coach Butch Jones and having a considerable lack of talent for an SEC team, his decision to bail was understandable. However at draft time it was still being viewed as a mistake.

His offensive coordinator throughout his college career was Jim Chaney, who is highly regarded both in college and the NFL both as a playcaller and developer of QBs/offense. Chaney was one of the leaders in the spread offense invasion of the college ranks, working at Purdue with Joe Tiller and coaching Drew Brees throughout his college career.

Chaney was highly sought after following the hiring of Jones/his release from Tennessee and eventually signed a huge deal with Arkansas.

The head coaching at Tennessee might have been shitty when Bray was there, but Bray's offense was coordinated by one of the best.

Bray is tall and has a big arm. He has some potential. But he has a LOT of work to do to come close to reaching it.

[ActiveShooter]

Also, remember that San Diego drafted Phillip Rivers to replace Brees. Lol.

[duncan_idaho]

So I guess Reid should just ignore what he's seen at practice and cut Bray's ass because the CP experts say there's no chance.

Not what I'm saying at all. Read posts throughout the thread.

I'm saying we need to pump the brakes because he's an extreme long-shot.

[jd1020]

Also, remember that San Diego drafted Phillip Rivers to replace Brees. Lol.

They replaced a guy who wasn't given a very good chance to recover from his injury.

[ActiveShooter]

They replaced a guy who wasn't given a very good chance to recover from his injury.

Gave up on him too early. Made a big mistake.

[jd1020]

Gave up on him too early. Made a big mistake.

Ya. They sure ended up with a shitty QB in return.

[ActiveShooter]

Not what I'm saying at all. Read posts throughout the thread.

I'm saying we need to pump the brakes because he's an extreme long-shot.

He's not an extreme long shot. That's where you are full of crap. Your opinion is he's a long shot and you need to pump the brakes with your pessimism.

[Pablo]

He's not an extreme long shot. That's where you are full of crap. Your opinion is he's a long shot and you need to pump the brakes with your pessimism.Yeah, an UDFA is the hope of our franchise.

LMAO

Pessimism is warranted in some scenarios, I'm sorry you can't seem to see this is one of them.

[tonyetony]

His offensive coordinator throughout his college career was Jim Chaney, who is highly regarded both in college and the NFL both as a playcaller and developer of QBs/offense. Chaney was one of the leaders in the spread offense invasion of the college ranks, working at Purdue with Joe Tiller and coaching Drew Brees throughout his college career.

Chaney was highly sought after following the hiring of Jones/his release from Tennessee and eventually signed a huge deal with Arkansas.

The head coaching at Tennessee might have been shitty when Bray was there, but Bray's offense was coordinated by one of the best.

Bray is tall and has a big arm. He has some potential. But he has a LOT of work to do to come close to reaching it.


Yep that highly sought after guy whose team went 3-9 and didn't win a single SEC game, their first winless in-conference season since 1942. He is sure coaching up the Razorbacks.

[duncan_idaho]

He's not an extreme long shot. That's where you are full of crap. Your opinion is he's a long shot and you need to pump the brakes with your pessimism.

What do you qualify as an extreme long shot?

The odds start out at not good (1st round QBs - less than 40 percent succeed) and get worse with every round down you go. By the time you get into the UDFA ranks (or below 7th round in the longer draft formats)you're talking about extremely long odds.

The definition of extreme long shot.

[tonyetony]

I am not saying Bray is our answer but to summarily dismiss him knowing Reid's history with QB's is ridiculous.

[Pablo]

I am not saying Bray is our answer but to summarily dismiss him knowing Reid's history with QB's is ridiculous.We may as well get excited for the prospect of Chase Daniel being our QBOTF then.

At least we invested a considerable chunk of money in him.

Think about that. Chase Daniel has a better shot at being the future of this franchise. Sad stuff indeed.

[Mav]

They replaced a guy who wasn't given a very good chance to recover from his injury.

No. they were going to replace him either way. His contract was up. The year they drafted phillip rivers, the Chargers had had a really crappy year.

They had the number one pick. Just so happened that in that same season, phillips rookie year, Brees played REALLY well, until getting hurt in the final regular season game.

I have to believe the plan all along was to move away from Drew Brees.

[The Franchise]

His offensive coordinator throughout his college career was Jim Chaney, who is highly regarded both in college and the NFL both as a playcaller and developer of QBs/offense. Chaney was one of the leaders in the spread offense invasion of the college ranks, working at Purdue with Joe Tiller and coaching Drew Brees throughout his college career.

Chaney was highly sought after following the hiring of Jones/his release from Tennessee and eventually signed a huge deal with Arkansas.

The head coaching at Tennessee might have been shitty when Bray was there, but Bray's offense was coordinated by one of the best.

Bray is tall and has a big arm. He has some potential. But he has a LOT of work to do to come close to reaching it.

Yet he couldn't do shit with Bray at QB and Patterson/Hunter at WR.

[ChiefsLV]

Yeah, an UDFA is the hope of our franchise.

LMAO

Pessimism is warranted in some scenarios, I'm sorry you can't seem to see this is one of them.

Tom Brady was a sixth round pick. Don't knock a guy before he's had a chance to prove himself.

[The Franchise]

Tom Brady was a sixth round pick. Don't knock a guy before he's had a chance to prove himself.

Tyler Bray is Tom Brady now.

One time is an anomaly.....not the norm.

[jd1020]

No. they were going to replace him either way. His contract was up. The year they drafted phillip rivers, the Chargers had had a really crappy year.

They had the number one pick. Just so happened that in that same season, phillips rookie year, Brees played REALLY well, until getting hurt in the final regular season game.

I have to believe the plan all along was to move away from Drew Brees.

They fucking offered Brees a contract.

Brees is the one who walked away.

[duncan_idaho]

Yep that highly sought after guy whose team went 3-9 and didn't win a single SEC game, their first winless in-conference season since 1942. He is sure coaching up the Razorbacks.

:banghead:

New coach, entirely new system, mass exodus of talent from a roster that was thin in talent to begin with. Absolutely NOTHING at QB behind the departed Tyler Wilson.

Brandon Allen is a joke. He had Matt Cassel-level options available at QB.

Totally all the offensive coordinator's fault.

And despite those challenges, Arkansas still finished in the top 25 in rushing offense in the country (while playing in the toughest 6-team division in college football).

[tonyetony]

We may as well get excited for the prospect of Chase Daniel being our QBOTF then.

At least we invested a considerable chunk of money in him.

Think about that. Chase Daniel has a better shot at being the future of this franchise. Sad stuff indeed.

If you believe that Bray doesn't have more potential upside than Daniels then I feel sorry for you.

[Mav]

Arent any qbs drafted a long shot?

How many cant miss prospects have missed?

How many prospects that were considered garbage shined?

Place, time, and circumstance are usually the greatest factors to a players success or failure.

Like for instance, lets just say that Andrew Luck, and Rg3, swapped spots.

Isnt there a chance that perhaps that RG3 would have been even more successful under the coaching of Bruce Arians, than under the maniac that is Shottenheimer?

How about if Geno had been drafted by the Chiefs instead of by the Jets. Wouldn't his success rate be higher under Andy Reid who under no circumstances would of started him day one, and would of actually developed him like he did with McNabb, Kolb, Foles.

A healthy stable environment is essential to a successful development.

Bray is being molded correctly. That is why he is more than a LONG shot.

The Chiefs didn't over react to his success he had in the 4th game of the preseason, and clearly had a plan of having him inactive for the year.

I think it is far too early to be declaring him a success, or a long shot.

[Pablo]

If you believe that Bray doesn't have more potential upside than Daniels then I feel sorry for you.I believe this regime has already invested considerably more in Daniel than they ever will in a flier that went undrafted.

[The Franchise]

Arent any qbs drafted a long shot?

How many cant miss prospects have missed?

How many prospects that were considered garbage shined?

Place, time, and circumstance are usually the greatest factors to a players success or failure.

Like for instance, lets just say that Andrew Luck, and Rg3, swapped spots.

Isnt there a chance that perhaps that RG3 would have been even more successful under the coaching of Bruce Arians, than under the maniac that is Shottenheimer?

How about if Geno had been drafted by the Chiefs instead of by the Jets. Wouldn't his success rate be higher under Andy Reid who under no circumstances would of started him day one, and would of actually developed him like he did with McNabb, Kolb, Foles.

A healthy stable environment is essential to a successful development.

Bray is being molded correctly. That is why he is more than a LONG shot.

The Chiefs didn't over react to his success he had in the 4th game of the preseason, and clearly had a plan of having him inactive for the year.

I think it is far too early to be declaring him a success, or a long shot.

You meant Shanahan....

This post is pretty good.

[Mav]

They ****ing offered Brees a contract.

Brees is the one who walked away.

is it ever possible to have a football discussion with you, without you jumping into a super sensitive emotionally charged teenage girl on her period type hissy fit?

Did I demean you? Did I disrespect you? Or, did I attempt to have a football discussion on recollection of something that happened over 7 years ago?

Time to show a little maturity. Also, happy holidays JD.

[tonyetony]

:banghead:

New coach, entirely new system, mass exodus of talent from a roster that was thin in talent to begin with. Absolutely NOTHING at QB behind the departed Tyler Wilson.

Brandon Allen is a joke. He had Matt Cassel-level options available at QB.

Totally all the offensive coordinator's fault.

And despite those challenges, Arkansas still finished in the top 25 in rushing offense in the country (while playing in the toughest 6-team division in college football).

Yep you are right. You could have at least mentioned the fact that he was the one calling the plays when they whooped up on Samford, 1/3 of their seasons win total. LOL

[jd1020]

is it ever possible to have a football discussion with you, without you jumping into a super sensitive emotionally charged teenage girl on her period type hissy fit?

Did I demean you? Did I disrespect you? Or, did I attempt to have a football discussion on recollection of something that happened over 7 years ago?

Time to show a little maturity. Also, happy holidays JD.

Why is everyone immature when you are wrong?

[Mav]

You meant Shanahan....

This post is pretty good.

Correct, and thank you.

Brain fart. Happy holidays Pestilence.

[ActiveShooter]

Yep that highly sought after guy whose team went 3-9 and didn't win a single SEC game, their first winless in-conference season since 1942. He is sure coaching up the Razorbacks.
While averaging 40 points a game. Too bad he didn't play defense too.

[Mav]

Why is everyone immature when you are wrong?

Perhaps I was wrong. Thank you for correcting me.

[ChiefsLV]

Tyler Bray is Tom Brady now.

Never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

[The Franchise]

Never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

Then don't bring up Tom Brady as a reason that Tyler Bray will succeed.

Tom Brady is an anomaly.

[duncan_idaho]

Yet he couldn't do shit with Bray at QB and Patterson/Hunter at WR.

2012 Tennessee defensive totals:

Total defense: 110th
Passing defense: 114th
Rushing defense: 87th
Scoring defense: 107th

Offensive numbers:

Scoring offense: 22nd
Rushing offense: 62nd
Passing offense: 15th
Total offense: 18th

Tennessee had problems in 2012, but those were not with offensive design. Jim Chaney is a very good, highly respected offensive coach.

Tyler Bray played in a very QB friendly system with a ton of talent around him. That's why Tennessee piled up numbers.

Now, you might say, if Tennessee's offense was so good, that means Bray was equally as good, right?

There's no doubt Bray had his moments. But when Tennessee's offense stalled, it was against defenses that had the athletes to get away with doing more complex things scheme-wise. This is where Bray's trouble with decision making, consistent accuracy and reading defenses held things back.

[tonyetony]

While averaging 40 points a game. Too bad he didn't play defense too.

What are you talking about. They never scored more than 33 in a game all season. They scored 0 against Alabama.

[tonyetony]

What are you talking about. They never scored more than 33 in a game all season. They scored 0 against Alabama.

BTW I'm referring to 2013 Arkansas.

[Mav]

And Jd, when you state offered him a contract.

They offered him a 2 million a dollar a year deal that was laden with incentives, and were also bringing back Phillip Rivers.

Not sure that this assertion exactly makes me "wrong".

But more an modest back handed slap by Aj Smith to say, HEY WE TRIED.

Aj Smith for two years tried to get Phillip Rivers in as the starter, but was rebutted by Marty.

Now, here is how you have a football discussion. Here is a link. Feel free to read it, and then you can come back and we can have a football discussion if you like.

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2010/2/8/1301176/why-did-the-chargers-let-drew

[ActiveShooter]

Yet he couldn't do shit with Bray at QB and Patterson/Hunter at WR.

Hunter sucks btw, and Patterson doesn't run routes. That's why he's he's been just a special teams and backfield flash. Hunter has no heart and is scared of the middle of the field. Sad really because until his sophomore year he looked really promising.

[duncan_idaho]

Yep you are right. You could have at least mentioned the fact that he was the one calling the plays when they whooped up on Samford, 1/3 of their seasons win total. LOL

Do you follow SEC/college football?

If you did, you should be aware of a few things that had far more to do with Arkansas's terrible season than Jim Chaney.

1) They were terrible last year
2) They brought in a placeholder coach last year, John L Smith, (which failed, but is beside the point) and had a lost year in recruiting outside of the RB position.
3) Bobby Petrino never was a top-notch recruiter. His college teams typically have cratered following his exodus from them. The Arkansas roster was low on high level talent, especially on the defensive side of the football. And most of its offensive talent left after 2012.

[ActiveShooter]

Tyler Bray is Tom Brady now.

One time is an anomaly.....not the norm.

No one said that dumbass.

[Mav]

I think it would be far more beneficial for people if they want to bring up long shot qbs as qbs who found success, as to bring up:

Matt Hasselbeck,
Jeff Garcia,
Kurt Warner,
Tony Romo,
Mark Brunell,
Jake Delhomme.

I think personally those support more of the long shot successes. Tom Brady, that pedestal is just too high.

[ActiveShooter]

I believe this regime has already invested considerably more in Daniel than they ever will in a flier that went undrafted.

Doh, all kinds of ignorance on display here.

[The Franchise]

No one said that dumbass.

Really fucktard? Tom Brady is the go to answer when it comes to Quarterbacks making it.

Don't want to draft a QB in the 1st round? Tom Brady was a 6th round pick!

Hanging your hopes on that UDFA QB? Tom Brady was passed over by 31 other teams!

[ChiefsLV]

Then don't bring up Tom Brady as a reason that Tyler Bray will succeed.

Tom Brady is an anomaly.

Actually I'll bring up whatever I want to bring up.

[ActiveShooter]

BTW I'm referring to 2013 Arkansas.

I'm talking Tennessee. Why is Arkansas even discussed here?

[jd1020]

And Jd, when you state offered him a contract.

They offered him a 2 million a dollar a year deal that was laden with incentives, and were also bringing back Phillip Rivers.

Not sure that this assertion exactly makes me "wrong".

But more an modest back handed slap by Aj Smith to say, HEY WE TRIED.

Aj Smith for two years tried to get Phillip Rivers in as the starter, but was rebutted by Marty.

Now, here is how you have a football discussion. Here is a link. Feel free to read it, and then you can come back and we can have a football discussion if you like.

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2010/2/8/1301176/why-did-the-chargers-let-drew

They offered him just about as much as the other teams.

They simply didn't guarantee him a starting job like the Saints.

3 teams offered a contract to a multiple pro-bowl level QB and none offered starting money.

Ya, his shoulder wasn't an issue...

[Mav]

Really ****tard? Tom Brady is the go to answer when it comes to Quarterbacks making it.

Don't want to draft a QB in the 1st round? Tom Brady was a 6th round pick!

Hanging your hopes on that UDFA QB? Tom Brady was passed over by 31 other teams!

I personally would rather go recent history.

Like,

Mike Glennon,
Russell Wilson,
Colin Kaepernick (bleh)
Nick Foles.

[Mav]

They offered him just about as much as the other teams.

They simply didn't guarantee him a starting job like the Saints.

Well, that was the point though. Drew Brees may have been offered a contract, but it was to come in as a back up. Which at the end of the day, was a slap in the face.

I do understand from their point of view that he was hurt, and doctors didn't know how he would recover, but, the contract offer itself in my opinion, wasn't really one to be taken seriously.

Obviously, it worked out the best possible way for Brees.

[ActiveShooter]

Really fucktard? Tom Brady is the go to answer when it comes to Quarterbacks making it.

Don't want to draft a QB in the 1st round? Tom Brady was a 6th round pick!

Hanging your hopes on that UDFA QB? Tom Brady was passed over by 31 other teams!

Still don't see a Bray=Brady post. Shitgurgler

[duncan_idaho]

Finding guys who have come out of unlikely to have success as a starting QB in the NFL is kind of like finding 2-star recruits who went on to be successful college and NFL players.

It is POSSIBLE for the success to come, but the success RATE is much lower for an UDFA than for a QB drafted. Just like the success RATE for a 3rd round QB is lower than for a 1st round QB, 5th round even lower, 7th round even lower still.

With guys like Bray, you're literally picking a handful of guys out of THOUSANDS of players.

Compared to 1st round QBs, where you're picking out of around a hundred or fewer guys, total.

[tonyetony]

Do you follow SEC/college football?

If you did, you should be aware of a few things that had far more to do with Arkansas's terrible season than Jim Chaney.

1) They were terrible last year
2) They brought in a placeholder coach last year, John L Smith, (which failed, but is beside the point) and had a lost year in recruiting outside of the RB position.
3) Bobby Petrino never was a top-notch recruiter. His college teams typically have cratered following his exodus from them. The Arkansas roster was low on high level talent, especially on the defensive side of the football. And most of its offensive talent left after 2012.

Trying to discredit Bray with the "Chaney is a god and a highly respected OC and made Bray look better than he is" argument is fucking ridiculous.

Chaney's arrow is pointing down right now weather you like it or not.

Bray's arm strength alone has got him on an NFL roster and if we can develop the rest of his game as he matures there is a chance he turns out to be better than every QB drafted this year. He is a project and everyone knows it.

[Mav]

Citing Drew Brees as a multiple time Pro Bowl level qb, when he signed with the Saints, is laughable.

In 2004, he was Matt Cassell. He threw 27 tds, and 7 ints, but averaged 210 yards per game.

Now, I will admit that he was very good in 2005, but, really, he didn't become pro bowl worthy, until he got to the dome with Sean Payton.

And here is the problem with arguing about the past. It is just that, the past.

Drew Brees, wasn't Drew Brees until he got down to New Orleans.

[jd1020]

Citing Drew Brees as a multiple time Pro Bowl level qb, when he signed with the Saints, is laughable.

In 2004, he was Matt Cassell. He threw 27 tds, and 7 ints, but averaged 210 yards per game.

Now, I will admit that he was very good in 2005, but, really, he didn't become pro bowl worthy, until he got to the dome with Sean Payton.

And here is the problem with arguing about the past. It is just that, the past.

Drew Brees, wasn't Drew Brees until he got down to New Orleans.

Are you serious?

Drew Brees was completing 65% of his passes for nearly 8 ypa, thats on par with his first few years in NO. Matt Cassel was completing 58% of his passes for 6.9 ypa.

GTFO

[duncan_idaho]

Trying to discredit Bray with the "Chaney is a god and a highly respected OC and made Bray look better than he is" argument is ****ing ridiculous.

Chaney's arrow is pointing down right now weather you like it or not.

Bray's arm strength alone has got him on an NFL roster and if we can develop the rest of his game as he matures there is a chance he turns out to be better than every QB drafted this year. He is a project and everyone knows it.

I never said Chaney made Bray look better than he is.

I said Chaney is a highly respected offensive coordinator who is very good at his job and who built a good offense for Bray to work within, in response to claims that Bray's college coaching was insufficient or shitty.

You want to talk about ****ing ridiculous? Saying Jim Chaney is not a good offensive coordinator qualifies. Saying Bray's development in college was stunted because he didn't have good coaching (all of which is done by his OC and QB coach, Darin Hinshaw, who ALSO is a good coach and offensive mind) is ****ing ridiculous.

[Mav]

Are you serious?

Drew Brees was completing 65% of his passes for nearly 8 ypa. Matt Cassel was completing 58% of his passes for 6.9 ypa.

GTFO

Really? You sure you want to do this JD?

You claim this as a great season, but it is almost IDENTICAL to the season Alex Smith was on pace for last year, and yet you claim Alex Smith sucks.

How is that possible?

His VERY FIRST SEASON in New Orleans, he threw for 1300 more yards than he did in that 2004 season. Come on JD.

I like Drew Brees as much as the next guy.

But, he was a completely different guy all the way around in New Orleans, with less talent than he had in San Diego IMO.

[jd1020]

Really? You sure you want to do this JD?

You claim this as a great season, but it is almost IDENTICAL to the season Alex Smith was on pace for last year, and yet you claim Alex Smith sucks.

How is that possible?

His VERY FIRST SEASON in New Orleans, he threw for 1300 more yards than he did in that 2004 season. Come on JD.

I like Drew Brees as much as the next guy.

But, he was a completely different guy all the way around in New Orleans, with less talent than he had in San Diego IMO.


Drew Brees averaged 8 more passes a game in NO you dumb ****.

Are you stupid?

He's throwing for the same average and completion and throws for 1300 more yards and you can't figure out why?

[tonyetony]

I never said Chaney made Bray look better than he is.

I said Chaney is a highly respected offensive coordinator who is very good at his job and who built a good offense for Bray to work within, in response to claims that Bray's college coaching was insufficient or shitty.

You want to talk about ****ing ridiculous? Saying Jim Chaney is not a good offensive coordinator qualifies. Saying Bray's development in college was stunted because he didn't have good coaching (all of which is done by his OC and QB coach, Darin Hinshaw, who ALSO is a good coach and offensive mind) is ****ing ridiculous.

We'll just have to disagree on Chaney because I personally think he is overrated as hell and you like him. Got it.

Bray's development in college was stunted mainly because of his own immaturity. I like Bray because he has a cannon and an incredible upside. If Reid thinks he is worth developing then I am anxious to witness his growth. You can dismiss the possibilities because he went undrafted etc. but I like the way we have handled him so far.

[Easy 6]

First of all, Reid and co. didn't just sign this guy for shits and giggles, they could've picked up some vet for peanuts just as easily, but they didn't... its pretty clear they saw some kind of potential they wanted to try and tap into and polish, pretty sure they aren't in the business of just "grabbing any old jerkoff to fill a useless roster spot"

Do they see him, should WE see him as the QBOTF at this point? No, but is it "freakin dumb" to have a little hope that he can eventually be coached up and into a viable candidate? Hell no, like i said, this regime isn't in the business of just doing something to do it, they obviously like something about the guy.

Anyone saying HE'S THE GUY right now is wrong, anyone saying HE'LL NEVER BE THE GUY is wrong, period... but one thing is for sure, he was brought in for a reason.

Some of us are glass half full types, others half empty and that's fine... but just saying NOPE FORGET IT NEVER EVER GONNA WORK EVER is just trying to be a Captain Superior poster.

Dorsey and Reid obviously liked the raw potential enough to give him a shot and for right now that's good enough for me and others.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

The bad Christmas sweater contests on tv got me thinking. CP really loves a bad tattoo

[Mav]

Finding guys who have come out of unlikely to have success as a starting QB in the NFL is kind of like finding 2-star recruits who went on to be successful college and NFL players.

It is POSSIBLE for the success to come, but the success RATE is much lower for an UDFA than for a QB drafted. Just like the success RATE for a 3rd round QB is lower than for a 1st round QB, 5th round even lower, 7th round even lower still.

With guys like Bray, you're literally picking a handful of guys out of THOUSANDS of players.

Compared to 1st round QBs, where you're picking out of around a hundred or fewer guys, total.

is that true even say in the last 5 years?

Im asking, not acting like I know.

It seems like it would be quite closer in percentage in recent history.

[ActiveShooter]

The bad Christmas sweater contests on tv got me thinking. CP really loves a bad tattoo

I've Never seen a good tattoo.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

I've Never seen a good tattoo.

I'm fond of the little guy pushing the lawnmower. The monkey mouth one aint' bad either.

[duncan_idaho]

We'll just have to disagree on Chaney because I personally think he is overrated as hell and you like him. Got it.

Bray's development in college was stunted mainly because of his own immaturity. I like Bray because he has a cannon and an incredible upside. If Reid thinks he is worth developing then I am anxious to witness his growth. You can dismiss the possibilities because he went undrafted etc. but I like the way we have handled him so far.

Fair enough.

It's not a "Like" issue, though. He was a candidate for the Missouri job in the offseason, so I did quite a bit of research on him. My opinion of his abilities as an OC is based on that.

Anyway, I'm not DISMISSING the possibility Bray develops into a good QB. He's in the best spot he could be (barring getting drafted and having a little more roster security), working with a coach who is good at developing QBs. I'm just saying the odds of a guy with enough warts to go undrafted becoming a good NFL starting QB are really, really slim (based on historical sample size and the numbers game), so we should dial back some of the rhetoric.

And ESPECIALLY not be content with Bray as our only option for developing a QB moving forward...

[Mav]

Drew Brees averaged 8 more passes a game in NO you dumb ****.

Are you stupid?

He's throwing for the same average and completion and throws for 1300 more yards and you can't figure out why?

Sure I can. Coaching first of all, as Marty was a run first coach.

Second he played in a dome 9 games a year.

Third, he grew as a qb. That still doesn't change the fact that one team saw him as a franchise qb, and his former team saw him as damaged goods, that was easily replaceable with Phillip Rivers.

Now, why are we arguing again?

Oh, right right, because you made this assertion that the Chargers made a GREAT OFFER to drew brees. Which they did not.

They made a PR type move, cited his shoulder injury as the reason, even though the true reason was that they wanted to get rid of him to start Phillip Rivers.

Which is understandable.

Look at that. An entire post, explaining my point of view, and I didn't have to insult you once.

Again. Wanna ask me again how come I point out someone is immature?

well because you are being immature, and aren't capable of having a decent conversation where anyone opposes your point of view.

[jd1020]

Oh, right right, because you made this assertion that the Chargers made a GREAT OFFER to drew brees. Which they did not.

Where did I say they offered him a "GREAT OFFER?"

They offered him a contract on par with the other 2 he was offered.

Stick to starting your bleeding vagina threads and kindly fuck off.

[Easy 6]

Look at that. An entire post, explaining my point of view, and I didn't have to insult you once.

Again. Wanna ask me again how come I point out someone is immature?

well because you are being immature, and aren't capable of having a decent conversation where anyone opposes your point of view.

He IS a snotnosed little sucker.

[Mav]

Where did I say they offered him a "GREAT OFFER?"

They offered him a contract on par with the other 2 he was offered.

Stick to starting your bleeding vagina threads and kindly **** off.

Nothing is on par with having a guaranteed starting job, and having a back up type offer.

NOTHING.

[cdcox]

I think it would be far more beneficial for people if they want to bring up long shot qbs as qbs who found success, as to bring up:

Matt Hasselbeck,
Jeff Garcia,
Kurt Warner,
Tony Romo,
Mark Brunell,
Jake Delhomme.

I think personally those support more of the long shot successes. Tom Brady, that pedestal is just too high.

wow, that is a very low bar. If that is your bar we should be completely content with Smith for the next 5 to 7 years. We should cut Bray because he is 3 years too early as a project. If that is your bar, we've made the playoffs, we've arrived! There is nothing else to do with the roster. We shoul sit back and bask in our sucess.