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Dayze
12-30-2013, 12:22 AM
So, theh Broncos scored 606 points this season - the most in NFL history.

You can thank the chicken shit rules that favor the QBs and Offense that Godell has put into place for that. The past 6 years have been an abortion for this league.

It's another reason why NFL games are dog shit to watch, and uninteresting more often than not. And don't jump all over me and start showing all the this close game, and that close game etc.....I"m talking about overall.


NFL - boring. just toss it up and get a PI call to set you up nice and perty. Or have a ref call a stupid ass call on the defense against the QB. Or an unnecessary roughness call; another today against a Baltimore secondary player that clearly had a legal hit on the WR. Not even close. I thought to myself "watch...they'll throw the" and before I could finish my sarcastic comment, here comes the flag.

The NFL is dog shit, and it's getting worse every year.

Easy 6
12-30-2013, 12:24 AM
Peyton Manning

65TPT
12-30-2013, 12:25 AM
It will be flag football when it's all over.

Silock
12-30-2013, 12:27 AM
NFL - boring. just toss it up and get a PI call to set you up nice and perty.

Yeah, we tried that today. Didn't work.

Chiefaholic
12-30-2013, 12:28 AM
Couldn't agree more.... I miss the days when you would sit on the edge of your seat when your defense was on the field (early/mid 90's Chiefs). Then you knew your defense would hold that 4 point lead with 2 minutes left. Now, the opponent chucks the ball downfield looking for pass int., defensive holding, or hitting a defensiveless WR

Phobia
12-30-2013, 12:29 AM
I'm not all up in arms about it but I agree for the most part. The NFL is going to run off all the football purists in favor of the Fantasy dorks. NTTAWWT

Dayze
12-30-2013, 12:30 AM
ah..I forgot about the Fantasy Football aspect of things.

Chiefaholic
12-30-2013, 12:31 AM
Deacon Jones, Lawrence Taylor, (young) Ed Reed, and the like wouldn't be crap in today's *****fied NFL.

Dayze
12-30-2013, 12:38 AM
and don't get me wrong; this isn't a Peyton based tirade (but while we're at it, fuck him), I stating it from more of a league wide stance.

Teams may as well draft the fastest players they can on offense, because defense is dead. Intimidation is dead. Atwater, Lott, etc would be neutered today. Those dudes made receivers dread going over the middle when their number was called.

It's looking more and more like the NBA on a fast break. and more like the NBA with penalties on either side of the coin. Meaning, I don't know what is, and is not a penalty any more.

TribalElder
12-30-2013, 12:44 AM
The one TD shouldn't have counted vs Houston but it was for the broncos so it did. Sorry bout that - the nfl

Bump
12-30-2013, 01:07 AM
while the game is evolving in favor of the offense, no question about that. You still need a Hall of Fame caliber QB to break such records.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 01:13 AM
I agree completely. The games now are boring. There's no semblance of a battle; it's just a matter of watching quarterbacks play catch and march up and down the field until the last team scores.

You can't rush the quarterback. You can't hit the quarterback. You can't jam the receivers. You can't hit the receivers. All you can do is gently pull them to the ground after they catch the ball. The game is ruined, and I say that after a winning season by my favorite team. It's not sour grapes or anything, but is a flat fact.

I'm about 90 percent certain that I'm going to take the year off from football next year. I've never intentionally missed a Chiefs game in my life, but I have better things to do in life than watch the beginner-fan product that the NFL produces these days.

GoChargers
12-30-2013, 01:26 AM
It's sad to watch. I miss teams like the 2000 Ravens. There's a reason why my favorite non-Chargers players are always defensive players. Their job is a million times harder than the offense nowadays, so anyone who can still step up and make an impact on the game under the circumstances deserves respect.

It's hard to even watch the Cheatriots or Donks play because I get so pissed at the bailout flags against anyone who tries to play defense - and, even worse, I expect them. You can't even breathe near Brady or Fivehead, but then we're all supposed to be in awe of the records they're breaking. What a joke.

BigRock
12-30-2013, 01:28 AM
You can thank the chicken shit rules that favor the QBs and Offense that Godell has put into place for that. The past 6 years have been an abortion for this league.
The NFL shifted to benefit the offense 10 years ago when Bill Polian whined like a bitch about his charmin soft Colts getting their asses spanked red by the Patriots. And Paul Tagliabue sat on his thumbs while Polian's competition committee drove the illegal contact rule down everyone's throat, which even the NFL's head of officiating said was bullshit.

Simply Red
12-30-2013, 01:29 AM
Peyton Manning

beautiful post #2

redshirt32
12-30-2013, 01:32 AM
Business and drama sells tickets the game is a circus act now

GoChargers
12-30-2013, 01:34 AM
Business and drama sells tickets the game is a circus act now

There is no drama. The games are all too predictable when they involve certain teams and players. It's literally only about business and ducking lawsuits nowadays, Goodell and the owners have lost sight of why people watch and play the game.

cosmo20002
12-30-2013, 01:44 AM
I'm not all up in arms about it but I agree for the most part. The NFL is going to run off all the football purists in favor of the Fantasy dorks. NTTAWWT

I don't think the fantasy dorks like it either. No stats are gained for a PI call--those are just yards your player can no longer get. And the increased passing is killing the RB position. There's only a few real, solid, RB plays and even fewer "studs." Most teams have a committee, but even featured backs don't get 25 carries. More like 10-20.

And the increased focus on concussions is makes starters missing games much more likely.

redshirt32
12-30-2013, 01:54 AM
There is no drama. The games are all too predictable when they involve certain teams and players. It's literally only about business and ducking lawsuits nowadays, Goodell and the owners have lost sight of why people watch and play the game.

Lots of drama its always better when there is a story line to feed to the millions to build up the games , brothers against brothers, or QB's that been run out of town, lots of story lines you know feel good outcomes

Best match ups for our bottom line its a business that works well and makes $$$$$$$ there is drama a lot of it Refs are the best act

Loved to play the game its changed so much

kcxiv
12-30-2013, 03:56 AM
Whats even crazier is the Chiefs were like the 6th ranked team in scoring points.

Last weeks clunker against the Colts dropped us, we were 2nd before that.haha

OrtonsPiercedTaint
12-30-2013, 04:31 AM
Yet it is better to be lucky than good. For example, his own brother

Dayze
12-30-2013, 05:03 AM
It would be ineteresting to see some sort of chart that either tracks total points scored per year; or average passing yardage over the last 15 years. With a bullet point that indicates when certain penalties were either more strictly enforced etc.

Total wild assed guyss, but I would think there would be a fairly large and rapid inrease in those averages beginning in probably 2004.

Like Rainman, I'm almost to the point where he is. Hell, I got NFLST for free this year and literally only 'used' it maybe once. I've probably caught a collective 60 minutes of the other prime-time games (which is 90% Manning). The NFL is really really disappointing me. I never remember it being so much of a story-line driven league - at least in terms of the games they hype. THey'd rather have 2 shit teams on national TV with an interesting back story than two good teams fighting it out.

This is the first year that I haven't thought "Man, I can't wait for X game this week". It doesn't matter. Game chagning penalties are occuring way too often each week, each game. Those penalties are the 'new' Kick Off Returns for TD.

Deberg_1990
12-30-2013, 05:29 AM
Don't care, you guys are still watching in record numbers

/ The NFL
Posted via Mobile Device

JD10367
12-30-2013, 05:51 AM
As a Patriots fan, I'm glad Peyton didn't get any special treatment from the media this year, and the Broncos got blasted for running up the score just like the Pats did... oh, wait...

Just like the Pats, Denver will find out that a record offense doesn't automatically mean a Lombardi. Manning isn't as good in the winter elements, Denver's D is a question mark without Miller, Welker is one hit away from ending his season... One and done is not put of the realm of possibility.

Mile High Mania
12-30-2013, 06:16 AM
As a Patriots fan, I'm glad Peyton didn't get any special treatment from the media this year, and the Broncos got blasted for running up the score just like the Pats did... oh, wait...

Just like the Pats, Denver will find out that a record offense doesn't automatically mean a Lombardi. Manning isn't as good in the winter elements, Denver's D is a question mark without Miller, Welker is one hit away from ending his season... One and done is not put of the realm of possibility.

I can't speak for anyone else on this board, but I know of the friends that I have that like the Broncos - none view any of this regular season greatness as anything to consider as a 'given' for postseason success.

Play time is over now, it's the playoffs...

BlackHelicopters
12-30-2013, 08:55 AM
And yet, the NFL is more popular than ever.

Mile High Mania
12-30-2013, 08:59 AM
And yet, the NFL is more popular than ever.

People (for the most part) love offense and points... not defensive slugfests that result in baseball scores.

I wish the defenses weren't so limited by all the rules changes quite honestly, but it is what it is and my love of the game hasn't fallen - and no, I wouldn't be singing a different tune if Denver didn't have Manning throwing for more than 10K yards and 92 TDs the last 32 regular season games.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 10:56 AM
And yet, the NFL is more popular than ever.


My theory is that they're broadening the base while narrowing the foundation. They're dumbing down the game and making it more popular among non-fans, because it's cool to go to a Super Bowl party and wear official NFL-branded merchandise.

However, this approach is hurting the core of the fan base, those people who will go fill a stadium on Week 15 when the two teams are 6-8.

On its current path, I think the NFL will continue to see TV ratings rise for big games, but they'll see stagnation and then a decline in TV ratings and attendance for teams that aren't winning. The NFL-branded casual fans that the NFL is courting aren't going to care about those games, and the hardcore fans are being driven away. In the end, I think there'll be a business crisis in the NFL as a result of the marketing-driving approach that's being used right now.

You can use marketing to grow the NFL just like you can with any other business. But at the same time you have to recognize that it's a bit different than other consumer goods, and increasing short-term sales at the cost of long-term loyalty carries a price.

-King-
12-30-2013, 10:58 AM
Eh. Still love watching games on Sunday. I'm really sad that we only have a few more weeks of this left.

jjchieffan
12-30-2013, 10:59 AM
It's gonna be that much sweeter when that record setting offense is sitting at home watching the Superbowl come February. Fuck the Donks

scho63
12-30-2013, 11:08 AM
Every game will be like the Pro Bowl

Mile High Mania
12-30-2013, 11:51 AM
My theory is that they're broadening the base while narrowing the foundation. They're dumbing down the game and making it more popular among non-fans, because it's cool to go to a Super Bowl party and wear official NFL-branded merchandise.

However, this approach is hurting the core of the fan base, those people who will go fill a stadium on Week 15 when the two teams are 6-8.

On its current path, I think the NFL will continue to see TV ratings rise for big games, but they'll see stagnation and then a decline in TV ratings and attendance for teams that aren't winning. The NFL-branded casual fans that the NFL is courting aren't going to care about those games, and the hardcore fans are being driven away. In the end, I think there'll be a business crisis in the NFL as a result of the marketing-driving approach that's being used right now.

You can use marketing to grow the NFL just like you can with any other business. But at the same time you have to recognize that it's a bit different than other consumer goods, and increasing short-term sales at the cost of long-term loyalty carries a price.

Three things jump out at me:

1 - Dumbing down the fan base. Exciting games "sell" tickets and make it a must see experience. I think in time, you'll see a shift back from what we have right now. Nothing that goes back to the 70s/80s, but they're overly sensitive to the injury concerns (concussions, lawsuits, etc) and while safety is a big part of it (right or wrong), it's making more games more fun to watch by a broader fan base... again, I don't think that's dumbing it down though.

2- Core fan base ... honestly, how many teams will sell out or reach a near sell out with two 6-8 teams battling it out for nothing in week 15? You're going to have your diehards that show up, win or lose. If you want to blame weak attendance on something, look at ticket prices, etc - not the rules changes.

3 - Decline in ratings ... see #2 above. Few people want to watch crappy teams play on TV. There are so many things competing for our attention and long gone are the days of just sitting around all weekend and watching whatever games are on TV. There's just too much to do now and you can catch the highlights and recaps online any time after those crappy games are over.

If anything, the rules changes that favor offense makes games between the Browns and Jags late in the season worth watching.

I agree that it's a bit watered down when you view it from a defensive perspective, but big stadiums, suites, crazy contracts... there are big bills to pay and they'll squeeze the fans out of every nickle we want to give them.

You can't just say on a whim "I think I'll take my family to a game in a couple of weeks". You might get tickets, but you're going to pay a ton of money when it's all said and done for a family of 4 to experience an NFL game.

That is what the league has as a major issue... that is why nobody wants to go watch the Jags suffer through a game.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 01:08 PM
Nice response. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, so it's good to get feedback.

Three things jump out at me:

1 - Dumbing down the fan base. Exciting games "sell" tickets and make it a must see experience. I think in time, you'll see a shift back from what we have right now. Nothing that goes back to the 70s/80s, but they're overly sensitive to the injury concerns (concussions, lawsuits, etc) and while safety is a big part of it (right or wrong), it's making more games more fun to watch by a broader fan base... again, I don't think that's dumbing it down though.

I hope we see a bit of a swing back. I like passing as much as anyone, but there has to be some defense involved instead of just pitch and catch. But pitch and catch is what excites the casual fan, so there's no argument from a marketing perspective to swing the pendulum back. 400 yards is good and 500 yards is great, so next year let's be at 550.

I think the best chance is an injury analysis. More passing may be producing more concussions and more knee injuries, because it produces higher-speed collisions. That'll take a few years to play out, though.

The only other argument is for the balance of the game, but I don't think that's an issue for the NFL. They did a show on "The Forward Pass" on NFL Network a couple of months ago, and I was struck when one of the people said, "We may be on the verge of seeing an NFL game where a team doesn't run the ball at all." I think the NFL doesn't mind that.

2- Core fan base ... honestly, how many teams will sell out or reach a near sell out with two 6-8 teams battling it out for nothing in week 15? You're going to have your diehards that show up, win or lose. If you want to blame weak attendance on something, look at ticket prices, etc - not the rules changes.

Yeah, I probably misstated the "full stadium" part. But my point is that you can count on the diehards if they like the sport, even if their team stinks. However, if you change the game to the point where the sport is less enjoyable, you're going to lose some of them. And every one of them is important in those B- and C-grade games.

3 - Decline in ratings ... see #2 above. Few people want to watch crappy teams play on TV. There are so many things competing for our attention and long gone are the days of just sitting around all weekend and watching whatever games are on TV. There's just too much to do now and you can catch the highlights and recaps online any time after those crappy games are over.

The TV ratings thing is interesting. If the casual fans just watch the highlights and recaps, then they don't need to watch the games and likely have little interest in watching the games. Therefore, ad revenues decline and the big TV deals decline. Maybe they can make it up by ad revenues on the incredibly annoying nfl.com site, but in the big scheme of things, it seems like a bad thing for the sport if fewer and fewer people watch the games.

If anything, the rules changes that favor offense makes games between the Browns and Jags late in the season worth watching.

I agree that it's a bit watered down when you view it from a defensive perspective, but big stadiums, suites, crazy contracts... there are big bills to pay and they'll squeeze the fans out of every nickle we want to give them.

You can't just say on a whim "I think I'll take my family to a game in a couple of weeks". You might get tickets, but you're going to pay a ton of money when it's all said and done for a family of 4 to experience an NFL game.

That is what the league has as a major issue... that is why nobody wants to go watch the Jags suffer through a game.

Ticket prices is another big challenge they face. When most people have a high-definition big-screen TV that's indoors, it's harder to get people to buy tickets. And it's worse when those tickets are triple-digit costs. Technology alone may take the crowd out of the game in the long-term, and that dilutes the user experience. I think that's different than marketing issues, but I sure think it poses a problem for all professional sports in the long run.

Do we have a future end game scenario where tickets aren't even sold, and all events happen in a studio setting? Or will stadiums get smaller? How relevant are game-day crowds in the financial models now? And how important is the game-day experience in building a bond with a team that will inspire franchise loyalty? It's hard to imagine that live crowds will ever go away, but I do think we've passed the zenith of live attendance at professional sports.

Mile High Mania
12-30-2013, 01:25 PM
I think the league really needs to consider the "at the game" experience... if the diehard fan continues to be squeezed out for the big $ guys that have half the heart and commitment to the team, the game will begin to fail.

Pablo
12-30-2013, 01:32 PM
I think the league really needs to consider the "at the game" experience... if the diehard fan continues to be squeezed out for the big $ guys that have half the heart and commitment to the team, the game will begin to fail.This is the most important thing to consider.

If a guy has a family of four, he can easily spend the majority of his week's pay on a Sunday game/tailgating/food and beverage inside the stadium. Doesn't it make much more sense to enjoy that game at home?

I really don't feel like the NFL is less enjoyable to watch in the slightest. And if the Chiefs were the team scoring 35+ a game, I doubt too many people on this forum would take issue with that. Purists can say they really enjoy a good defensive battle that ends up 10-6; but they're in the minority

Simplicity
12-30-2013, 01:32 PM
I think the league really needs to consider the "at the game" experience... if the diehard fan continues to be squeezed out for the big $ guys that have half the heart and commitment to the team, the game will begin to fail.

We need more barrel-man...

Hammock Parties
12-30-2013, 01:33 PM
The butthurt is so thick.

We wouldn't care if that was our QB and our offense.

The second we get a QB we will be ecstatic and laughing at poverty passing teams.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 01:34 PM
I think the league really needs to consider the "at the game" experience... if the diehard fan continues to be squeezed out for the big $ guys that have half the heart and commitment to the team, the game will begin to fail.

Yeah, that's a major problem, especially given the high quality of the at-home experience now.

I think you can build a loyal fan without the game-day experience, because many of us were fans for years before attending a game in person. But if going to a game ends up being a bucket list type of thing rather than an annual pilgrimage, it's not good for the league's marketing. You don't want to show 80% of your games on TV in front of a half-empty stadium. That's why Los Angeles can't keep a team.

Dayze
12-30-2013, 01:38 PM
it's not butt-hurt for a specific QB / not having a QB etc.

It's the watering down of the game itself. maybe next year we can have a team score 650 pts. then the year after 675!!!! woo hooo.

It's become quite stale. Yeah, I know the ratings are probably at an all time high, but that's because, IMO, people are watching out of habbit at this point, and/or the fantasy football geeks tuning in to watch their guy.

Mile High Mania
12-30-2013, 01:40 PM
Getting back to the 606 thing... it really is astounding though when you look at the numbers from this season with Denver.

Over 16 games - five players with 60+ receptions and 10+ TDs.

606 Points
Peyton - 5,477 yards / 55 TDs / 10 INTs (1 rushing TD)

Moreno - 1,038 rushing / 60 recs for 548 yards / 13 TDs
Ball - 559 rushing yards & 145 rec yards / 4 TDs

D Thomas - 92 / 1,430 / 14 TDs
E Decker - 87 / 1,288 / 11 TDs
W Welker - 73 / 778 / 10 TDs
J Thomas - 65 / 788 / 12 TDs

Crazy.

Pablo
12-30-2013, 01:43 PM
The butthurt is so thick.

We wouldn't care if that was our QB and our offense.

The second we get a QB we will be ecstatic and laughing at poverty passing teams.Yup.

Think back to a few short months ago when we were are sure we had the second coming of the '85 Bears D. Thread after thread after thread about how great we were.

Because it feels good to root for the best. And if Alex Smith just finished the season with 5,500 yards and 55 TD's; the keyboards of the CP collective would be the stickiest in the entire nation.

Dayze
12-30-2013, 01:43 PM
I also recall at some point during the season, the combined points for that particular week were an all-time record too.

I hope I didn't make this sound like a butt-hurt because Manning is tossing it all over the joint thread. I didn't intend to. I was speaking to the league wide passing domination.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 01:43 PM
I really don't feel like the NFL is less enjoyable to watch in the slightest. And if the Chiefs were the team scoring 35+ a game, I doubt too many people on this forum would take issue with that. Purists can say they really enjoy a good defensive battle that ends up 10-6; but they're in the minority

This could be my own personal bias, but I think there's an optimal frequency in scoring. Soccer is boring because scores are too rare, and hockey suffers a similar fate, albeit to a lesser degree. When you watch a game for three hours and there's one or two scores, that's too slow a pace.

Basketball is extremely boring because scores are too frequent. When you watch a game for two hours and there are 100 scores, there's nothing to highlight. It's an assembly line.

I always thought that football had it right. You'd watch a game for three hours and there would be six or seven scores. Maybe it's nitpicky to say that 12 scores is too many, and if I'd grown up with 12-score games maybe I'd think that's the right amount. But it feels like too many, to the point where it seems like the game just comes down to whoever scores last before the clock runs out.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 01:44 PM
I also recall at some point during the season, the combined points for that particular week were an all-time record too.

I hope I didn't make this sound like a butt-hurt because Manning is tossing it all over the joint thread. I didn't intend to. I was speaking to the league wide passing domination.

I hate the Broncos as much as anybody, and more than most, but this isn't about the Broncos in my mind. It's about the league's rule changes and how they've disrupted the balance of the game.

Dayze
12-30-2013, 01:47 PM
Beuno. That's my stance as well.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 02:15 PM
The only other argument is for the balance of the game, but I don't think that's an issue for the NFL. They did a show on "The Forward Pass" on NFL Network a couple of months ago, and I was struck when one of the people said, "We may be on the verge of seeing an NFL game where a team doesn't run the ball at all." I think the NFL doesn't mind that.


I don't know if you've followed any of the analysis on run-pass balance on Advanced NFL Stats, but it very interesting. For many teams, running the ball is a wasted down.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/search/label/run-pass%20balance?max-results=100

(links within the articles are worth tracking down too).

The article on historical analysis of run-pass balance was particularly good.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/run-pass-balance-historical-analysis.html

Especially this passage:

To me, this suggests defenses have largely remained unchanged, despite the focus on pass rushing beginning with players like Lawrence Taylor. Defenses appear to stubbornly focus on the run, making certain that they keep running efficiency under control. But this focus comes at the expense of passing efficiency. Defenses are happy to let passing efficiency 'be what it will be' in their pursuit of stopping the run.

Defenses may not have a choice. Perhaps once running efficiency gets much over 4 YPC, stopping an offense becomes extremely difficult. With 3 tries to get 10 yards, perhaps 4 YPC is a magic number that the basic rules of football dictate. It could be that run defense is simply inelastic. The way modern defensive schemes are constructed, defenses are unable to shift toward stopping passes more effectively. Whatever the reason, defenses appear either unable or unwilling to adapt.

If it the above conjecture about run defense inelasticity is accurate, rule changes would be the only way to restore run-pass balance to the game.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 02:18 PM
I don't know if you've followed any of the analysis on run-pass balance on Advanced NFL Stats, but it very interesting...




I haven't read that, but it's on my list. It sounds quite interesting.

MagicHef
12-30-2013, 04:40 PM
In 1984, teams averaged 1.37 TD passes per game.
Last year, teams averaged 1.47 TD passes per game.

What a huge change there's been.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 05:13 PM
In 1984, teams averaged 1.37 TD passes per game.
Last year, teams averaged 1.47 TD passes per game.

What a huge change there's been.

The average passing yards per team has risen from 3,294 to 3,770 from 1984 through 2013. That averages 30 yards more per game, which I think is significant. (The average went from 206 to 236.)

Honestly, I would have assumed that the averages were much higher than that on yardage, and also that the increase would have been larger. Must be a Matt Cassel effect in 2013.

I'm also showing 1.57 TD passes per game in 2013. If it was 1.37 in 1984 and 1.47 in 2012, then we saw a 30-year jump in average over the course of a single season in 2013. I'm not bothering to calculate all the years in between, so maybe one of the three numbers is a fluke.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 05:41 PM
The average passing yards per team has risen from 3,294 to 3,770 from 1984 through 2013. That averages 30 yards more per game, which I think is significant. (The average went from 206 to 236.)

Honestly, I would have assumed that the averages were much higher than that on yardage, and also that the increase would have been larger. Must be a Matt Cassel effect in 2013.

I'm also showing 1.57 TD passes per game in 2013. If it was 1.37 in 1984 and 1.47 in 2012, then we saw a 30-year jump in average over the course of a single season in 2013. I'm not bothering to calculate all the years in between, so maybe one of the three numbers is a fluke.

Pre-calculated easy-to-compare data:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/team_stats.htm

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 05:44 PM
Pre-calculated easy-to-compare data:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/team_stats.htm

That was much easier than my way.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 05:53 PM
Pre-calculated easy-to-compare data:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/team_stats.htm


Wow, the passing data is really interesting. I wonder what happened in 1947 to throw the yardage numbers up so quickly. I don't think it would be AAFC thing, because I don't think their stats are included in NFL stats. And then around 1968 they hit the skids, and again I'm not sure why. There's likely an AFL effect, but the pattern doesn't seem to match exactly.

You have the same bulge in TD passes per game, which again doesn't exactly match the AFL era or the AAFC era. How weird.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 05:57 PM
Wow, the passing data is really interesting. I wonder what happened in 1947 to throw the yardage numbers up so quickly. I don't think it would be AAFC thing, because I don't think their stats are included in NFL stats. And then around 1968 they hit the skids, and again I'm not sure why. There's likely an AFL effect, but the pattern doesn't seem to match exactly.

You have the same bulge in TD passes per game, which again doesn't exactly match the AFL era or the AAFC era. How weird.

Some speculation on reasons are here:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/run-pass-balance-historical-analysis.html

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 06:07 PM
Some speculation on reasons are here:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/run-pass-balance-historical-analysis.html

That portends that passing is going to become even more dominant as coaches slowly pick up on the various new rules about touching receivers and hitting receivers.

redshirt32
12-30-2013, 06:08 PM
Do they include PI yardage in offensive stats ?

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 06:11 PM
Do they include PI yardage in offensive stats ?

Nope.

redshirt32
12-30-2013, 06:23 PM
Nope.

They should include all PI as stats for the offense, did they gain the yardage or not?

If your going to throw the flag and award one team 45 yards for a passing play, it should be counted as offensive yards.

This would make the stats a lot different,

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 06:49 PM
I'm really curious what happened in 1947. The per-game passing and scoring both jumped dramatically, but I see no substantive rules changes.

Here are the scoring stats by year: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

The 1948 season was the highest-scoring in NFL history on a per-game basis, even higher than 2013 (which is the second-highest). The top ten scoring seasons in NFL history are:

1948 - 23.6 ppg.
2013 - 23.4 ppg.
1965 - 23.1 ppg.
1950 - 22.9 ppg.
2012 - 22.8 ppg.
1949 - 22.7 ppg.
1958 - 22.6 ppg.
1952, 1962 - 22.3 ppg.
2011 - 22.2 ppg.
1947, 1963, 1964, 2008, 2010 - 22.0 ppg.

So we've had three offensive ice ages in the history of the NFL - a five-season stretch from 1947-1952, a four-season stretch from 1962-1965, and a current six-season stretch from 2008-2013 and counting.

Wikipedia lists the following rules changes in 1947. None of them would account for a huge 10+% increase in scoring. That increase was abrupt, and it was bigger than the increase we saw with the 1978 major rule changes.

A fifth official, the Back Judge, is added to the officiating crew.
When a team has less than 11 players on the field prior to a snap or kick, the officials are not to notify them.
An illegal use of hands penalty will be called whenever a defensive player uses them to block the vision of a receiver during any pass behind the offensive team's line.
During an unsuccessful extra point attempt, the play becomes dead as soon as failure is evident.
Roughing the kicker will not be called if he kicks after recovering a loose ball or fumble on the play.
All teams are required to use prescribed standard yardage chains, down boxes, and flexible shaft markers.
Games are no longer played on Tuesdays.

In 1962, wikipedia lists only one major rule change, which likely helped the running game a fair bit.

Grabbing any player's facemask is prohibited.


Here's an interesting article about NFL scoring: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-spirit-48-mind-blowing-statistical-orgasm/7392/

They propose an interesting counterintuitive theory about scoring in the late 40s, noting that there were many more turnovers then, which may have given offenses short fields. I don't think that explains the sudden increase, though.

There's also a minor implication that perhaps if kickers weren't as good, teams pushed for touchdowns more often. That makes sense to me.

They also showed this chart of scoring by decade, which shows the 1960s as being the full decade with the highest average scoring. That's mindblowing considering it was the era of the middle linebacker.

1960s – 21.7 PPG (NFL only)
1950s – 21.5 PPG
2000s – 21.0 PPG
1980s – 20.9 PPG
1990s – 20.2 PPG
1970s – 19.2 PPG
1940s – 19.0 PPG (NFL only)
1930s – 11.4 PPG
1920s – 9.4 PPG

So far in the 2010s, the average scoring per game is at 22.6 and on an upward trajectory. So we're definitely in the highest-scoring era in history.

Rain Man
12-30-2013, 06:50 PM
They should include all PI as stats for the offense, did they gain the yardage or not?

If your going to throw the flag and award one team 45 yards for a passing play, it should be counted as offensive yards.

This would make the stats a lot different,

I would agree.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 06:59 PM
Considering individual teams from the 2013 season, there was no significant correlation between passing yards and first downs by penalty, which seems to argue against the "chuck it down the field and hope you draw a PI penalty" offensive strategy being prevalent in the league.

There also doesn't seem to be a tend in number of first downs awarded by penalty. They are currently on a 6 year upward trend but within the norm of the last 30 years of trends.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 07:24 PM
I'm really curious what happened in 1947.

I'm going to guess that it was the combination of the T-formation and the end of WWII.

The T-formation came on board in the NFL around 1939, but it took until 1953 until the Steelers finally gave up the single wing. So it came on slowly during that time period.

However, the full effects of the T formation were probably blunted by some degree due to WWII sucking a lot of talent away from football. Allow a year for the talent pool to recover from the war and for them to learn in intricacies of the T formation and boom, you get a step change in scoring and passing.

redshirt32
12-30-2013, 07:26 PM
Is there a stat for total penalty yards awarded to Offense VS Defense each year, curious to see if they balance out.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 07:28 PM
Is there a stat for total penalty yards awarded to Offense VS Defense each year, curious to see if they balance out.

It could be mined from pbp data but it isn't generally reported.

Bearcat
12-30-2013, 08:05 PM
Great discussion.

I don't think it's about Peyton butthurt at all... it's been a steady decline for several years, but it's just that much more obvious and frustrating when a rival sets a record that highlights the main reason for the decline. There was the same discussion (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=279320) a few weeks ago with no need to talk about Denver.

About 6-7 years ago, I stopped watching every single Chiefs game (thanks, Herm), and shortly after that I started watching more college ball and not worrying so much about missing NFL games. Once a month or so there was some can't-miss game and mid-January football was still awesome, but like others have said, after a while all of those great games look exactly the same.

There are still some great games, but Rain Man has hit the nail on the head in several posts... the business of the NFL and their shortsightedness has ruined the game.

cdcox
12-30-2013, 08:10 PM
Great discussion.

I don't think it's about Peyton butthurt at all... it's been a steady decline for several years, but it's just that much more obvious and frustrating when a rival sets a record that highlights the main reason for the decline. There was the same discussion (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=279320) a few weeks ago with no need to talk about Denver.

About 6-7 years ago, I stopped watching every single Chiefs game (thanks, Herm), and shortly after that I started watching more college ball and not worrying so much about missing NFL games. Once a month or so there was some can't-miss game and mid-January football was still awesome, but like others have said, after a while all of those great games look exactly the same.

There are still some great games, but Rain Man has hit the nail on the head in several posts... the business of the NFL and their shortsightedness has ruined the game.

I don't watch much college football, but I did watch the SEC championship game. Same problem there but it was the Auburn running game that was unrecognizable as football. Didn't really spend time trying to figure out how an offense could be so dominant in a championship level game, but it didn't really compel me to want to watch more college ball.

tk13
12-30-2013, 08:11 PM
I think we're seeing the effects of the strict rules against DBs... which is why I think tying up money is CBs is not a good idea. And now we've combined it with the lax practice rules... and this is what you get.

What's funny is the NFL set records for most points in a single week... and most TDs in a single week. And if I'm not mistaken, they were not the same week. The problem with all this scoring is you do become almost numb to it. Yeah scoring is fun to watch, but when everyone does it, it's not quite the same.

tk13
12-30-2013, 08:21 PM
Just for reference... the top 5 passing seasons of all time now have all taken place in the last 3 seasons.

10 of the top 13 passing seasons all-time have taken place in the last 3 seasons.

11 of the top 12 seasons for completions have taken place in the last 4 seasons.

8 of the top 15 seasons for passing TDs have taken place in the last 3 seasons.

In terms of passing the football, we are essentially in what the steroid era was for baseball.

DRU
12-30-2013, 08:26 PM
The butthurt is so thick.

We wouldn't care if that was our QB and our offense.

The second we get a QB we will be ecstatic and laughing at poverty passing teams.

I disagree. When it happens now and goes our way it's more of a "well, that was BS but I'll take it" sort of feeling. That's not nearly as fun as it used to be when you'd make that play against a real defense.

It really is pathetic. You gotta love, too, when a play will happen and the announcers will start to say something like yeah that's how they want people doing it today, but then they still throw the flag, so announces back track and after looking at replays (which still clearly show a perfectly legal hit) they say oh yeah that's indeed why they called it. Total BS.

Eleazar
12-30-2013, 08:27 PM
I agree completely. The games now are boring. There's no semblance of a battle; it's just a matter of watching quarterbacks play catch and march up and down the field until the last team scores.

You can't rush the quarterback. You can't hit the quarterback. You can't jam the receivers. You can't hit the receivers. All you can do is gently pull them to the ground after they catch the ball. The game is ruined, and I say that after a winning season by my favorite team. It's not sour grapes or anything, but is a flat fact.

These

rocknrolla
12-30-2013, 08:31 PM
Couldn't agree more.... I miss the days when you would sit on the edge of your seat when your defense was on the field (early/mid 90's Chiefs). Then you knew your defense would hold that 4 point lead with 2 minutes left. Now, the opponent chucks the ball downfield looking for pass int., defensive holding, or hitting a defensiveless WR

REP! So true, could't say is it ant better.

Bearcat
12-30-2013, 08:40 PM
I don't watch much college football, but I did watch the SEC championship game. Same problem there but it was the Auburn running game that was unrecognizable as football. Didn't really spend time trying to figure out how an offense could be so dominant in a championship level game, but it didn't really compel me to want to watch more college ball.

Yeah, that was kind of ridiculous. There may be a trend in college football to air it out, too, but there's still quite a bit of variety... from the Oregon type offenses to the Alabama/LSU defenses, etc. It's definitely not a football purist's heaven, but it's not even that I dislike the shootouts or whatever, I just don't get the feeling that every good CFB game is going to end the same way.

The NFL is so watered down these days, the only games that seem worth watching are Manning vs Brees or Rodgers vs another Manning, etc, since the most other games are more about bad offense than good defense.... and if the defense had some chance, they would be highly entertaining games, but after a while it's "oh, another 42-38 game."

I'll take the good with the bad when it comes to college sports, since it's not all about money and I don't get the feeling that it's manufactured.

whoman69
12-30-2013, 08:48 PM
Combination of the rules allowing the defense nothing and the referees being lax in never calling the illegal picks the Broncos receivers take advantage of. I had to laugh when I saw an ESPN analyst trying to argue Peyton had the statistically greatest season ever.

Dayze
12-30-2013, 08:49 PM
it's to the point now whenever there is a big hit downfield, the entire crowd, announcing crew, and even the fucking camera man are waiting for the flag to come out.

that's how bad it's become. same with PI. anyone see the Brandon Marshall clear push off in the end zone this past week? no call. wtf.

Now it's like "Ohhhhhh. BIg hit. Here comes the flag". ....and there it is. I'm all for safety and all, but JFC. Don't want to get smashed over the middle? Tell your QB not to leave you hanging out to dry. That's how is used to be.

stevieray
12-30-2013, 09:48 PM
when a strip, fumble recovery for a TD doesn't even get reviewed, and two refs are six feet away from an illegal FG formation, that's not a game, nor competition.

It's a Vegas casino with refs as dealers..

stevieray
12-30-2013, 09:51 PM
Combination of the rules allowing the defense nothing and the referees being lax in never calling the illegal picks the Broncos receivers take advantage of. I had to laugh when I saw an ESPN analyst trying to argue Peyton had the statistically greatest season ever.
cmon now... it only took Manning 15 years to throw 55TD's at 37 years old after having neck surgery...

LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-30-2013, 10:29 PM
Dink and duck their way to history folks!

Mile High Mania
12-31-2013, 08:12 AM
Dink and duck their way to history folks!

Yeah, all they're doing is 5 yard passes.

cmon now... it only took Manning 15 years to throw 55TD's at 37 years old after having neck surgery...

LMAO

Well, he had a nice cast of pass catching options as well. There's no denying that the rules favor the offense and they run plays to maximize what the rules allow, but last I checked... it all counts.

It's not just Peyton - there were a lot of QBs that had big statistical years when you look at yardage, especially.

crossbow
12-31-2013, 09:39 AM
Got to hand it to the owners. They did a great job of screwing up a once great game. Turned a competitive contest into a circle jerking quarterback derby. Kind of like watching a home run contest when there is only the pitcher and the batter on the field with no defense or base running.

Tombstone RJ
12-31-2013, 09:45 AM
Your tears are delicious.

Rain Man
12-31-2013, 10:52 AM
I'll admit that this thread gives me a little hope. We've had the league turn into a scoring derby before, and it's eventually come back to sanity. Admittedly, this is a huge surge and it's the longest sustained surge with no signs yet of slowing down, but maybe at some point saner heads will prevail.

I still stand by my comments, though, that the marketing people are running the league and they don't know about or care about football. That's the part that's scary. Do they even realize that this is a problem?

Bearcat
12-31-2013, 11:16 AM
I'll admit that this thread gives me a little hope. We've had the league turn into a scoring derby before, and it's eventually come back to sanity. Admittedly, this is a huge surge and it's the longest sustained surge with no signs yet of slowing down, but maybe at some point saner heads will prevail.

I still stand by my comments, though, that the marketing people are running the league and they don't know about or care about football. That's the part that's scary. Do they even realize that this is a problem?

I don't think they'll figure it out until more fans realize it's a problem and the NFL's bottom line is significantly impacted. Just look at the Chiefs... people were lining up for season tickets because their team that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years flushed their coaches and GM. They played a bunch of shitty teams in front of sold out crowds. No problems here.

I think it'll be like any other big business... slow to adjust since the focus is on the bottom line, and too big to fail when they finally realize something is wrong.

Dayze
12-31-2013, 11:20 AM
Homerun Derby is the perfect analogy.