Question

[Donger]

As I understand it, the 2013 Chiefs defense was the reason for the loss last night. Yet, IIRC, everyone was speaking of this same defense as if it were the best of the league through the 9-0 streak. If that is correct, can someone explain why and how the complete reversal happened? Also, do you/we think that the Chiefs coaching staff are asking the same question this morning?

Thanks.

[Discuss Thrower]

They ran out of backup quarterbacks to face off against.

[BlackHelicopters]

Good QB's carved us up.

[TribalElder]

I think they spent halftime celebrating a win instead of continuing to work :shrug:

The season collapse in the second half...... Everyone had seen our cards already?

[Direckshun]

Passrushers went down, hard.

We had nothing after our two guys went down.

[Aspengc8]

As I understand it, the 2013 Chiefs defense was the reason for the loss last night. Yet, IIRC, everyone was speaking of this same defense as if it were the best of the league through the 9-0 streak. If that is correct, can someone explain why and how the complete reversal happened? Also, do you/we think that the Chiefs coaching staff are asking the same question this morning?

Thanks.

Do you live in a cave? Both our best pass rushers were not 100% last night.

[Rain Man]

Teams got film and said, "Wow, these guys are good. But - wait! WAIT! That #23 guy is always out of position, and he's slow and he takes bad angles. That may be our answer."

['Hamas' Jenkins]

1) The level of competition improved. They were never as good as their start, because people falsely assumed that Jeff Tuel=Peyton Manning and Philip Rivers

2) Injuries. Having your best two pass rushers hobbled for the final third of the season is devastating for any team

3) Depth. This team has almost no depth on defense. You need three pass rushers; the Chiefs have two. You need two DTs; the Chiefs have one.

4) Secondary. Berry and Flowers are above average pass defenders. Everyone else in the back of the defense is subpar to horrendous.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Receivers did not get covered for the first 3 seconds

[Lprechaun]

They ran out of backup quarterbacks to face off against.

partly this and partly because in the first 9 weeks we went up against known mobile or unknown unproven, young QBs who would obviously crap their pants with multiple blitzes. On that note I dont understand the blitzing becoming near non existent.

[ROYC75]

As I understand it, the 2013 Chiefs defense was the reason for the loss last night. Yet, IIRC, everyone was speaking of this same defense as if it were the best of the league through the 9-0 streak. If that is correct, can someone explain why and how the complete reversal happened? Also, do you/we think that the Chiefs coaching staff are asking the same question this morning?

Thanks.

This says it well ! We were caught with a DC that didn't know how to adjust to it.


Peyton Manning gave the rest of the league the blueprint for how to beat this defense.

Get the ball out of your hand before the rush has a chance to get to you.


Then you can't blitz. There's no point! You'll never get there in less than 2.5 seconds anyway, and all you're doing is leaving the shallow middle of the field (where it's easiest to complete 2.5 second throws) wide open. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

Anyway, the rest of the league just followed the blueprint, and the defense went from other world amazing to completely inept. The Colts made a few mistakes and probably had some nerves in the first half. But after the break, they came back and went right back to what they knew would work. And with 2 of our starting defensive backs on the sidelines, it was game over. That's that.

[BigMeatballDave]

They ran out of backup quarterbacks to face off against.

Thread over

[Lprechaun]

1)



3) Depth. This team has almost no depth on defense. You need three pass rushers; the Chiefs have two. You need two DTs; the Chiefs have one.



You are obviously wrong on this... what happened last week?

[BigMeatballDave]

Passrushers went down, hard.

We had nothing after our two guys went down.

The secondary was getting gashed before then.

[Eleazar]

The blueprint was always out there. Just keep throwing at the horrendous secondary. You'll score 40 points.

The pass rush was protecting the secondary earlier in the season. When the play of the front 7 dropped off, and we stopped getting turnovers, they were exposed. Look at the first half or so last night.

You could see later in the season, opposing QBs deciding to pants Smith and Cooper and Lewis and Robinson over and over and over.

There's no solution to such a woeful lack of personnel in the back of the defense except fixing it in the offseason.

[mcaj22]

Bob Sutton is what happened

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You are obviously wrong on this... what happened last week?

A team comprised entirely of AAA teams will win 40 baseball games a year. Doesn't mean you can load your bench with AAA players and win.

[Discuss Thrower]

Teams with Good QB's found a way to get rid of the ball after only 2-3 seconds. We got burned with those crossing routes ever since the Denver game. Because teams could make adjustments and Sutton couldn't, it made things even easier for the offenses. Also, it doesn't help that nobody knows how to tackle in the NFL anymore.

I don't think I've ever seen a team have this many "so called" all pro defensive players and be so bad. They're just as bad as the 2003 Chiefs defense, except that team had only one Pro Bowler from what I remember.

Two. Woods and Wesley.

[Lprechaun]

A team comprised entirely of AAA teams will win 40 baseball games a year. Doesn't mean you can load your bench with AAA players and win.

And yet they did. Its the starters that screwed up. Dont get me wrong we obviously need better depth especially at corner and safety but the bench didnt lose this game.

[mcan]

At the beginning of the year, people were trying to put double moves on us and use the deep middle part of the field. It was obvious on tape. The weakness of the team is the deep middle. The Chiefs' best safety plays at the line. Their deep defense is weak... So, run long routes and try to get one on one coverage and put it up.

The Chiefs teed off on those teams. It helps that they had weak ass QBs who made bad decisions too. Anyway, the tape started to reveal, yes the Chiefs' safeties are really really bad. All the scores against us came from big plays. So even more teams figured that was their best chance. Chuck it deep. Use deep dig routes. Isolate and take advantage.

Meanwhile, Hali and Houston are raking up sacks while QBs wait in the pocket for a guy to go downfield. Poe is taking up three guys up the middle and stopping the run. Times were good.


Then the Broncos game.


Peyton had a different idea. Get rid of the ball before the rush has a chance to get to you. It's actually a really risky play. The defense can run bump and run and mess up your timing if they have good corners. Tiny mistakes or miscommunications can end up in pick sixes, and when you DO get a completion it often times isn't enough for the first down. But the Broncos ran it to perfection, and suddenly it became obvious how inexperienced our defensive backs really were.

Once we got the one loss, other teams started to copy/paste that gameplan.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And yet they did. Its the starters that screwed up. Dont get me wrong we obviously need better depth especially at corner and safety but the bench didnt lose this game.

The lack of depth exposed the exhausted starters. Poe played more snaps than any DT in football and sat out the last gap. Houston and Hali never got a blow. The team has zero situational pass rushers.

There is no depth on this defense. I don't know how anyone could suggest otherwise.

[DenverChief]

I honestly think it was fatigue - I think that is the reason we saw so many injuries yesterday too. When players get tired injuries go up. I can't explain why Howard didn't get any regular season snaps to give Poe a breather but I can almost guarantee that the reason Poe dropped off is that he was over worked. I think the same goes for Hali, Houston and Flowers - Zombo, Parker and N Johnson should have been playing 10-15 snaps a game to give our starters a break.

I think what we saw yesterday was a product of being over worked, players not following through or going 100% and ending up hurting themselves because the opponents are playing at 100%

[Donger]

Passrushers went down, hard.

We had nothing after our two guys went down.

Hali and Houston? If so, they both played last night, right?

[Direckshun]

Hali and Houston? If so, they both played last night, right?

At about 75%, it seems.

[BossChief]

Because you can't teach this old dog new tricks. Sutton is a stubborn old ball coach that doesn't want to change his ways and it caught up to him. If you aren't constantly changing things to keep from being stagnant, you become stagnant.

Kendrick Lewis was his guy at free safety, no matter what. Regardless of how much better Hussein Abdullah is...Lewis was gonna be out there.

Regardless of how well Powe played against SDs starters in a win now mode (1sack, 2 tfl and numerous play disruptions) Sutton decided it was best to leave the second most disruptive DL we have at home and play a gassed Poe for nearly every snap.

He decided it was a good idea to keep Dunta Robinson out there, even though he was behind his man but 5 yards or more all game instead of giving Parker a shot.

[DenverChief]

At about 75%, it seems.

And with they way the defense played in the SD game I'm surprised they can argue that our Depth at CB/DT/LB is not worthy of 10-15 snaps a game

[DenverChief]

giving Parker a shot.

Wasn't he on the injured/in-actives list?

[greatgooglymoogly]

As I understand it, the 2013 Chiefs defense was the reason for the loss last night. Yet, IIRC, everyone was speaking of this same defense as if it were the best of the league through the 9-0 streak. If that is correct, can someone explain why and how the complete reversal happened? Also, do you/we think that the Chiefs coaching staff are asking the same question this morning?

Thanks.

2013 Chiefs = 2010 Boise State. They feasted on cupcakes early in the season and folded like a K-Mart chair the moment they faced a team with a decent QB and a pulse at other positions.

[Donger]

So, basically Hali and Houston weren't anywhere near 100% AND the defense was figured out during the Denver game? And the first nine gamers were played against poor teams.

If so, why weren't adjustments made by Sutton?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Assuming that the Chiefs depth is solid based on one performance in San Diego is even more fallacious than assuming the Chiefs defense is elite based upon their performance in the season's first half.

[Rasputin]

They ran out of backup quarterbacks to face off against.



Pretty much this and the man behind the curtain has been exposed.

[RNR]

Level of competition. It was showing cracks before the 9-0 run ended~

[bevischief]

Sutton hit the road jack.

[mnchiefsguy]

Passrushers went down, hard.

We had nothing after our two guys went down.

Except the pass rush had disappeared before the injuries occurred.

The pass rush gradually decliined over the course of the nine game winning streak. Folks had concerns about in the Cleveland and Buffalo games at the end of the winning streak.

[RINGLEADER]

As I understand it, the 2013 Chiefs defense was the reason for the loss last night. Yet, IIRC, everyone was speaking of this same defense as if it were the best of the league through the 9-0 streak. If that is correct, can someone explain why and how the complete reversal happened? Also, do you/we think that the Chiefs coaching staff are asking the same question this morning?

Thanks.

Quality of opponent.

Probably also some fatigue on the D-Line... The no-huddle hurt us...

[DenverChief]

Assuming that the Chiefs depth is solid based on one performance in San Diego is even more fallacious than assuming the Chiefs defense is elite based upon their performance in the season's first half.

Solid? Serviceable - can come in and play in limited action -

[RINGLEADER]

So, basically Hali and Houston weren't anywhere near 100% AND the defense was figured out during the Denver game? And the first nine gamers were played against poor teams.

If so, why weren't adjustments made by Sutton?

Stubbornness?

[DenverChief]

Stubbornness?

Gotta be - I just can't believe that the thought process was " a tired starter is better than a fresh backup"

[Direckshun]

So, basically Hali and Houston weren't anywhere near 100% AND the defense was figured out during the Denver game? And the first nine gamers were played against poor teams.

If so, why weren't adjustments made by Sutton?

Sutton did make some adjustments, they just weren't dramatic enough or effective.

And in some cases, made the team actively worse.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Solid? Serviceable - can come in and play in limited action -

Perhaps, but you are dealing with the smallest of sample sizes. There was a time when people thought Marcus Cooper was a Pro Bowl corner. What happened after the sample size expanded?

[kcpasco]

And I really do not know how you fix the secondary in 1 offseason. Its obvious Lewis Robinson Demps and maybe Smith aren't going to cut it. Flowers took a huge step backwards this season and Cooper is still an unknown. No rookie you draft is gonna make that much of a difference.

[DenverChief]

Perhaps, but you are dealing with the smallest of sample sizes. There was a time when people thought Marcus Cooper was a Pro Bowl corner. What happened after the sample size expanded?

Rookies will make rookie mistakes - I don't recall seeing him give up much yesterday

Powe, Howard and Zombo? They are veterans and should have more playing time with a shorter rope than a rookie - which is what make the Lewis thing so infuriating - a veteran that gets burned on a regular basis should ride the pine faster than a rookie

[Donger]

Do you guys think that Sutton did the best he could with the players at his disposal?

[DenverChief]

Do you guys think that Sutton did the best he could with the players at his disposal?

Yes and no - I think he should have utilized the backups more throughout the season and started Demps/Abdullah in Lewis place - but we wouldn't have got to 9-0 without some awesome defensive play

[kcpasco]

Sutton did try and make some adjustments the problem was it still was not working. Look at the game winning td from the Colts they were in a cover 2 and they let Hilton get behind them.

[mcan]

And I really do not know how you fix the secondary in 1 offseason. Its obvious Lewis Robinson Demps and maybe Smith aren't going to cut it. Flowers took a huge step backwards this season and Cooper is still an unknown. No rookie you draft is gonna make that much of a difference.

First thing I would do is trade Flowers. He's made the probowl this year. Hope he recovers fine and plays well in that game. Then start trying to get a 2nd rounder for the guy. Or a package of mid rounders. He's just not good enough to be considered a top notch corner.

Use your number one, and whatever pick you get for Flowers on defensive backs. Make a decent, veteran free agent signing and coach the youngsters along. Cooper IS going to be a very good corner in this league someday. Abdullah and Parker look coachable and talented, with a nose for the ball.

We also need another middle linebacker, or just go back to the 4-3. Hali should really be a rush end and Houston should play with his hand off the ground. Powe and Poe in the middle, and let Jackson compete with a stable of very capable guys for the LE spot. Hope that Bailey can beat him out.