Discussions about Concussions

[Molitoth]

I'm having a hard time liking the new pussified NFL and it's concussion rules.
Do these players not know that there is a high chance of concussions when they sign the dotted line for an assload of money?

What if a player wants to go back out and play anyway? It's his body.
Shouldn't there be some type of release document that they can sign in order for the franchise to protect itself over lawsuits?

It also seems the NFL/Teams can call anything a "concussion" to do whatever they please. It's an invisible injury. It can happen and the fans will never know if it was authentic or not. They can use this mysterious injury to bench players and not make it public (to save ego), or maybe in the conspiracy theorists mind,... to "rig" the NFL. :rolleyes:
But I cannot prove otherwise...

I have such a higher respect now for the old school football players in the NFL. The 80's and even the 90's seem BRUTAL compared to today's nonsense. I understand people's health is important, but there is a point where it has gotten stupid.

The majority of us went out to the sandlot, banam/popwarner, high school football knowing there was a big chance at injury and we didn't get paid at all. We loved the game, and what it should be.

I know there is nothing really fans can do about it, but I just felt like having the discussion. What are your thoughts?

[007]

They need to take a closer look at the helmets. Yesterday was insane. Or the Indy field.

[Nzoner]

:rolleyes: all you want but can you not see the concussion protocol gives the NFL even more control of their games and there's not a ****ing thing anyone can do about it.

[jspchief]

Yes. I expect these guys to invite brain damage for my enjoyment.

[TribalElder]

:rolleyes: all you want but can you not see the concussion protocol gives the NFL even more control of their games and there's not a ****ing thing anyone can do about it.

They protocol'do half our team out of the game yesterday

[durtyrute]

I don't think it is a coincidence that we had five play makers not come back into the game after getting banged up.

[007]

:rolleyes: all you want but can you not see the concussion protocol gives the NFL even more control of their games and there's not a ****ing thing anyone can do about it.that goes without saying. When they made flowers go directly to the locker room I thought of you.

[chiefzilla1501]

A few things....
Given all the fucked up stuff we're seeing with CTE, I don't think the problem can be ignored. But the NFL and the player's union both fucked this up. They should be innovating like crazy to test out newer and better equipment to minimize head injuries.

There's also something about old school football players that I don't like. With the speed and size of today's players, you can't have players going for kill shots like they used to. An interesting theory I've heard is that if NFL players played with less protection, we might actually cut injuries because players play with fundamentals instead of going for the big hit. Big hits are fun to watch, but personally, I DESPISE watching big games where big players get knocked out. I DESPISE that a team's entire season can be thrown in the shitter because a star player got hurt. And I feel like so many problems can be fixed if players played with fundamentals.

[GloucesterChief]

There are helmets that can reduce the probability of concussions but the NFL does not mandate them.

Don Beebe had a special helmet made that also reduced concussions, almost all players didn't adopt it because it looked silly.

[Molitoth]

Yes. I expect these guys to invite brain damage for my enjoyment.

Isn't that their choice?

Charles legacy is now a little tarnished because he went out of the most important game of his life by an invisible injury nobody could really see?

Charles did not look happy about being forced into the locker room, he looked as if he wanted to play because that is what he is getting paid millions of dollars to do.

[Molitoth]

:rolleyes: all you want but can you not see the concussion protocol gives the NFL even more control of their games and there's not a ****ing thing anyone can do about it.

I'm not saying it can't happen Joe, infact I'm worried a bit that it might start happening in the future.

Do I think it happens to the extent of the NFL wanting Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the championship games? no.

Average NFL fans like parity, and fans like seeing new players and teams in the Super Bowl. If the NFL rigged Tom Brady to play Peyton Manning at the highest level every year, Sportscenter and the fans of those 2 teams would love it, but the rest of the country would lose interest really fast, and i'm sure the NFL has statistics and marketing people that know this.

Hence, go read any poll about WHAT teams people want to see in the Super Bowl... it typically ends up being underdogs and teams that haven't been there lately.

[jspchief]

Isn't that their choice?

Charles legacy is now a little tarnished because he went out of the most important game of his life by an invisible injury nobody could really see?

Charles did not look happy about being forced into the locker room, he looked as if he wanted to play because that is what he is getting paid millions of dollars to do.

It was their choice. Then they decided to sue the NFL and make them legally responsible.

Besides, it's not like there isn't a precedent set that employees can't be counted on to look after their own safety. And don't forget all the ways an employee can willingly expose workers to risk.

Do you really not care about Charles' health?

[Nzoner]

I'm not saying it can't happen Joe, infact I'm worried a bit that it might start happening in the future.

Do I think it happens to the extent of the NFL wanting Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the championship games? no.

Average NFL fans like parity, and fans like seeing new players and teams in the Super Bowl. If the NFL rigged Tom Brady to play Peyton Manning at the highest level every year, Sportscenter and the fans of those 2 teams would love it, but the rest of the country would lose interest really fast, and i'm sure the NFL has statistics and marketing people that know this.

Hence, go read any poll about WHAT teams people want to see in the Super Bowl... it typically ends up being underdogs and teams that haven't been there lately.

Totally agree I love parity like the parity of this year's AFC Divisional Play-Off round. :D

[HMc]

obama is in on the fix, i am pretty sure. read it in another thread

[Molitoth]

It was their choice. Then they decided to sue the NFL and make them legally responsible.

Besides, it's not like there isn't a precedent set that employees can't be counted on to look after their own safety. And don't forget all the ways an employee can willingly expose workers to risk.

Do you really not care about Charles' health?

Does Charles care about MY health?

Honestly, I wish everyone a healthy life... besides Bob Sutton and Kendrick Lewis... (joking).

But if someone tells me I cannot do something that I love to do because I "may" get hurt... I would tell that person to Fuck off.
You cannot live scared. Anyone can get hurt at anytime. I could get in a car crash every time I get in the car by some person texting and driving. Should I not drive anymore?

[Molitoth]

Totally agree I love parity like the parity of this year's AFC Divisional Play-Off round. :D

You know what would make you happier?

Bet against the Chiefs every game next year and you will come out ahead.
=)

[ping2000]

There are helmets that can reduce the probability of concussions but the NFL does not mandate them.

Don Beebe had a special helmet made that also reduced concussions, almost all players didn't adopt it because it looked silly.

That was the Gazzoo helmet from the Flintstones.

[007]

Does Charles care about MY health?

Honestly, I wish everyone a healthy life... besides Bob Sutton and Kendrick Lewis... (joking).

But if someone tells me I cannot do something that I love to do because I "may" get hurt... I would tell that person to **** off.
You cannot live scared. Anyone can get hurt at anytime. I could get in a car crash every time I get in the car by some person texting and driving. Should I not drive anymore?Great post man.

[jspchief]

Does Charles care about MY health?

Honestly, I wish everyone a healthy life... besides Bob Sutton and Kendrick Lewis... (joking).

But if someone tells me I cannot do something that I love to do because I "may" get hurt... I would tell that person to Fuck off.
You cannot live scared. Anyone can get hurt at anytime. I could get in a car crash every time I get in the car by some person texting and driving. Should I not drive anymore?

OSHA tells you what you cant do at your job all the time.

And you're ignoring the influence the employer has. Maybe Joe WR gets his snaps reduced next game because he chose to not risk brain injury. At that point Joe WR doesn't have much of a choice at all, does he? Facing the immediate pressure of coaches, teammates, and fans/public perception, is that player going to make the best long term choice?

And it's not like it's some random witchcraft. An independent neurologist performs a battery of tests to determine a concussion.

[Big Poppa Payne]

Most concussions come from not having your helmet secured properly. These guys with long hair, especially dreadlocks that are thick and hang out of their helmet wear their helmets loose and don't properly tighten their chin straps. They are at a higher risk for concussions. I'm not sure if that's why Jamaal got a concussion but he does have dreads.

[LoneWolf]

Does Charles care about MY health?

Honestly, I wish everyone a healthy life... besides Bob Sutton and Kendrick Lewis... (joking).

But if someone tells me I cannot do something that I love to do because I "may" get hurt... I would tell that person to **** off.
You cannot live scared. Anyone can get hurt at anytime. I could get in a car crash every time I get in the car by some person texting and driving. Should I not drive anymore?

Helmet laws, seat belt laws, and texting while driving laws are all examples of someone telling you you can't do something you love because you might get hurt. Your argument is stupid.

[007]

Helmet laws, seat belt laws, and texting while driving laws are all examples of someone telling you you can't do something you love because you might get hurt. Your argument is stupid.that wasn't really his point. But I get what you are saying.

[Rain Man]

Any discussion of concussions should focus on repercussions.

[Jimmya]

Here come the liberal tree huggers telling us "we know better about your safety than you do."

[-King-]

This is stupid. If you work at a factory and suffer an injury, it's not like you can tell your boss, "I'm good, I'll keep on working." Same deal here.

[-King-]

Does Charles care about MY health?

Honestly, I wish everyone a healthy life... besides Bob Sutton and Kendrick Lewis... (joking).

But if someone tells me I cannot do something that I love to do because I "may" get hurt... I would tell that person to Fuck off.
You cannot live scared. Anyone can get hurt at anytime. I could get in a car crash every time I get in the car by some person texting and driving. Should I not drive anymore?

Fuck rules and laws then. Some people love to drink a shit ton and drive home. Who are YOU to say that they shouldn't.

[ChiefRocka]

My head hurts.

[KChiefer]

Here come the liberal tree huggers telling us "we know better about your safety than you do."

Yeah, those stupid, liberal DOCTORS!

Go ask Phobia what he thinks of doctors about now...

[The_Doctor10]

Here come the liberal tree huggers telling us "we know better about your safety than you do."

No, it's a 'we just wrote a cheque for $765 million over this, so sit your ass down and thank us when you don't shoot yourself in the chest in 10 years' thing.

[Molitoth]

No, it's a 'we just wrote a cheque for $765 million over this, so sit your ass down and thank us when you don't shoot yourself in the chest in 10 years' thing.

Once again, sue happy people ruining it for everyone else.

[R8RFAN]

It's pretty sad when you favor risking a mans life for a football game...

[GloryDayz]

Unless they do a study of players who played through just Pop Warner, then just through Junior High, then just through High school, then just through the D-1 college ranks, and determine how many of them suffer the same issues, I'm not sure it's fair to put it on the NFL. With three being the limit, I'm sure many of us are at the limit and we never saw a college football field.

It's a concern, but I'd support a waiver if the players sign it (at any point). many of the other comparisons being made are simply silly.

[dannybcaitlyn]

We should just put all the players in them big padded sumo suits .

[afchief]

Nothing will change until common sense is added to the equation. Football is an inherently dangerous occupation just like being in the military and certain hazards can be minimized but not eliminated. It is the NFL's job to see that those hazards are minimized as much as possible and any player playing today should not be able to sue except in the case of negligence. The question comes in about sitting a player that doesn't think he's hurt. They could require the player to sit for at least a quarter before allowing him to sign a release or something along those lines. The deeper you dive into it the less black and white it is.

Also what I think is insane is, in Kansas, I can get a seat belt ticket while in a vehicle surrounded by metal with four wheels but I'm allowed to ride a bike with no helmet. What if I'm part of the "I plan on being thrown clear" crowd.

[KChiefer]

Unless they do a study of players who played through just Pop Warner, then just through Junior High, then just through High school, then just through the D-1 college ranks, and determine how many of them suffer the same issues, I'm not sure it's fair to put it on the NFL. With three being the limit, I'm sure many of us are at the limit and we never saw a college football field.

It's a concern, but I'd support a waiver if the players sign it (at any point). many of the other comparisons being made are simply silly.

And not signing that waiver would be your exit from the NFL. Then we get to watch a league with less talent but keeping the brain damage.

[chiefzilla1501]

Once again, sue happy people ruining it for everyone else.

I really don't enjoy the game when the best players are not on the field. Even if Andrew Luck was knocked out yesterday, that's not the way I want to watch games.

Big hits are fun to watch. But football would be a hell of a lot more fun if players focused on tackling instead of knocking players out, and if players weren't consistently in and out of the lineup because of concussions that don't seem to be reserved just for freak occasions anymore.

[HMc]

Does Charles care about MY health?

Honestly, I wish everyone a healthy life... besides Bob Sutton and Kendrick Lewis... (joking).

But if someone tells me I cannot do something that I love to do because I "may" get hurt... I would tell that person to **** off.
You cannot live scared. Anyone can get hurt at anytime. I could get in a car crash every time I get in the car by some person texting and driving. Should I not drive anymore?

Have you already got a brain injury? It seriously seems like it.

[GloryDayz]

And not signing that waiver would be your exit from the NFL. Then we get to watch a league with less talent but keeping the brain damage.

Point taken. Then again, I've signed waivers for things as simple as diving, and yeah, if I wanted to dive, I had to sign.

But I think playing in the NFL is a choice, and asking an adult to sign a waiver as the price of admission to the opportunity isn't out of the question. Plus, it makes a lot of sense because nobody makes it to the NFL as a football virgin, so there's no way to tell which concussions in a person's life lead to their condition (if they develop one), so I thin the NFL should demand a waiver.

I don't often side with the NFL on things like this, but this is one where they're being asked to pay for player's issues, for life, that may/probably happened equally as much before they made it to the NFL. So it just sounds bunk to me.

And last, let college players sue the "college football industry" (LOL, defining THAT corporation would be a fun day in court, and is what's prolly saving college sports as a whole from financial ruin!!) and you might be onto something. Let a case be won at the high school level like was won against the NFL, and it's over. Then again, I did have to sign a waiver for my some to wrestle and play tennis. I didn't read it for content (perhaps I should have), but I'm pretty sure it clears the school and the school system from any liability should he get injured.

[CaliforniaChief]

Heartbreaking as it was, you have to put player safety first. That said, we probably would have been well-served to send Kendrick Lewis in after a play to pick up Luck and through him, head-first, onto the turf. Take the 15 yard penalty and bring their playmaker out of the game AND get Lewis ejected. Win-win.

[Dayze]

I wish Lewis would play safety first

[chiefzilla1501]

Most concussions come from not having your helmet secured properly. These guys with long hair, especially dreadlocks that are thick and hang out of their helmet wear their helmets loose and don't properly tighten their chin straps. They are at a higher risk for concussions. I'm not sure if that's why Jamaal got a concussion but he does have dreads.

There's some stuff that is just plain irritating. Helmets should be secured and every player should have a mouthpiece. If there is a chance some other form of helmet or padding can reduce injury, the Nfl should strongly encourage it and the union should too. It is absolutely disgraceful that these small things don't get emphasized. I'm especially pissed at the union. It is their fucking job to fight for their players, and yet they are fighting against things that will keep their players safe and healthy.

[Big Poppa Payne]

Heartbreaking as it was, you have to put player safety first. That said, we probably would have been well-served to send Kendrick Lewis in after a play to pick up Luck and through him, head-first, onto the turf. Take the 15 yard penalty and bring their playmaker out of the game AND get Lewis ejected. Win-win.

I like it!

[HMc]

Point taken. Then again, I've signed waivers for things as simple as diving, and yeah, if I wanted to dive, I had to sign.

But I think playing in the NFL is a choice, and asking an adult to sign a waiver as the price of admission to the opportunity isn't out of the question. Plus, it makes a lot of sense because nobody makes it to the NFL as a football virgin, so there's no way to tell which concussions in a person's life lead to their condition (if they develop one), so I thin the NFL should demand a waiver.

I don't often side with the NFL on things like this, but this is one where they're being asked to pay for player's issues, for life, that may/probably happened equally as much before they made it to the NFL. So it just sounds bunk to me.

And last, let college players sue the "college football industry" (LOL, defining THAT corporation would be a fun day in court, and is what's prolly saving college sports as a whole from financial ruin!!) and you might be onto something. Let a case be won at the high school level like was won against the NFL, and it's over. Then again, I did have to sign a waiver for my some to wrestle and play tennis. I didn't read it for content (perhaps I should have), but I'm pretty sure it clears the school and the school system from any liability should he get injured.

Unless you are an expert on tort (and likely contract and labour) law, your comments on waiver are nothing more than bullshit in the breeze.

Just because a document purports to achieve some end (limiting someone's liability, for instance) doesn't mean it actually will do that.

[Big Poppa Payne]

There's some stuff that is just plain irritating. Helmets should be secured and every player should have a mouthpiece. If there is a chance some other form of helmet or padding can reduce injury, the Nfl should strongly encourage it and the union should too. It is absolutely disgraceful that these small things don't get emphasized. I'm especially pissed at the union. It is their fucking job to fight for their players, and yet they are fighting against things that will keep their players safe and healthy.

I agree man. It's bullshit but you know they don't secure them. I can't remember the game but it was a couple weeks ago and I believe it was Kendrick Lewis who almost intercepted a pass but of course he dropped it and then his helmet came flying off while he was running.

[GloryDayz]

Unless you are an expert on tort (and likely contract and labour) law, your comments on waiver are nothing more than bullshit in the breeze.

Just because a document purports to achieve some end (limiting someone's liability, for instance) doesn't mean it actually will do that.

I am no lawyer, but I'm sure glad to know that I can sue the school system if I need to since the paper prolly means nothing. And if you're right, and you prolly are, THAT'S what's wrong with the world, and once again LAWYERS are in the middle of what's fucked up!

[007]

I agree man. It's bullshit but you know they don't secure them. I can't remember the game but it was a couple weeks ago and I believe it was Kendrick Lewis who almost intercepted a pass but of course he dropped it and then his helmet came flying off while he was running.

If The Beard can secure his helmet then everyone can.

[GloryDayz]

There's some stuff that is just plain irritating. Helmets should be secured and every player should have a mouthpiece. If there is a chance some other form of helmet or padding can reduce injury, the Nfl should strongly encourage it and the union should too. It is absolutely disgraceful that these small things don't get emphasized. I'm especially pissed at the union. It is their fucking job to fight for their players, and yet they are fighting against things that will keep their players safe and healthy.

I've sized a LOT of helmets, and I totally agree, if they're tossing them on with one hand, they aren't on right. That being said, this might be the answer....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8caccG8l11qik1lzo1_400.jpg

[Molitoth]

Have you already got a brain injury? It seriously seems like it.

I guess so... I've had some concussions and I didn't get to take off work for a couple of weeks.

[HMc]

I am no lawyer, but I'm sure glad to know that I can sue the school system if I need to since the paper prolly means nothing. And if you're right, and you prolly are, THAT'S what's wrong with the world, and once again LAWYERS are in the middle of what's ****ed up!

I think once you get over the loss, you'll see that preventing concussed players from re-taking the field is by far the most sensible thing to do.

[Big Poppa Payne]

If The Beard can secure his helmet then everyone can.

Good point.. His hair isn't on top of his head though and we really don't know if his helmet is secured or not.

I play football and I have guys on my team with dreads who are constantly losing their helmets on tackles. Our team trainers are always on them about securing their helmets. You're at a higher concussion risk with a loose helmet.

[Dayze]

i remember playing and the first week or practices of the season, my head was killing me because it was so tight. you couldn't even go onto the field w/out your chin straps buckled and a mouth piece in.

if for some reason a ref saw you before the snap with either missing/off, it was an automatic 5 yard penalty.

[Big Poppa Payne]

If The Beard can secure his helmet then everyone can.

Speaking of the beard I didn't see him play yesterday did you? I think he's better than Fasano.

[chiefzilla1501]

i remember playing and the first week or practices of the season, my head was killing me because it was so tight. you couldn't even go onto the field w/out your chin straps buckled and a mouth piece in.

if for some reason a ref saw you before the snap with either missing/off, it was an automatic 5 yard penalty.

The worst part is, I bet the nfl knows mouthpieces are a big part of the answer but they won't fucking do it because they don't want to admit they should have done it long ago.

Any player that doesn't have to bark out signals should wear a mouthpiece. I sure hope the chiefs think long and hard about what happened yesterday and demand the same from their players.

[big nasty kcnut]

i rather they do that then risk injury to a player. cam neely should be still playing hockey. i still say that the nfl should put inflatable padding in helmet like a airbag and if the has a hard hit he just go to the sideline to inflate it back up.

[Big Poppa Payne]

i rather they do that then risk injury to a player. cam neely should be still playing hockey. i still say that the nfl should put inflatable padding in helmet like a airbag and if the has a hard hit he just go to the sideline to inflate it back up.

All of the helmets already have inflatable air bladders in them.

[jspchief]

The worst part is, I bet the nfl knows mouthpieces are a big part of the answer but they won't fucking do it because they don't want to admit they should have done it long ago.

Any player that doesn't have to bark out signals should wear a mouthpiece. I sure hope the chiefs think long and hard about what happened yesterday and demand the same from their players.

Wait... I thought they already had to wear mouthpieces?

[Big Poppa Payne]

They should wrap them selfs in bubble wrap after every series of downs.

[Molitoth]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rhEwmSSMQYc/TgSKDkN_D3I/AAAAAAAAAO8/Hp4DL2zkddA/s1600/padding.jpg

[EyePod]

They need to take a closer look at the helmets. Yesterday was insane. Or the Indy field.There's really good helmets that don't look cool. Who the hell cares what they look like? NFL hasn't cared about its players ever, and they're going through the motions now. If they proactively protected them, we wouldn't be in this situation.

I'm beginning to hate football more and more. It's just like the rest of the corporate USA trying to keep the masses occupied so we just keep on spending.

Yikes I sound like a hippie.

[ghak99]

The worst part is, I bet the nfl knows mouthpieces are a big part of the answer but they won't fucking do it because they don't want to admit they should have done it long ago.

Any player that doesn't have to bark out signals should wear a mouthpiece. I sure hope the chiefs think long and hard about what happened yesterday and demand the same from their players.

:hmmm:

Wow... I guess I always assumed they were, but now that I think about it there are a lot of guys you never see with one. Chin straps and mouth pieces were taken very seriously in our high school games.

[Valiant]

A few things....
Given all the ****ed up stuff we're seeing with CTE, I don't think the problem can be ignored. But the NFL and the player's union both ****ed this up. They should be innovating like crazy to test out newer and better equipment to minimize head injuries.

There's also something about old school football players that I don't like. With the speed and size of today's players, you can't have players going for kill shots like they used to. An interesting theory I've heard is that if NFL players played with less protection, we might actually cut injuries because players play with fundamentals instead of going for the big hit. Big hits are fun to watch, but personally, I DESPISE watching big games where big players get knocked out. I DESPISE that a team's entire season can be thrown in the shitter because a star player got hurt. And I feel like so many problems can be fixed if players played with fundamentals.

Only way is to get away from those helmet and pads.

Go leather rugby pads and helmets, bendable visors for certain players. Players would quit using their head. And the game would get faster.

Also outlaw any stiff arms to the face..