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Mr. Laz
01-14-2014, 04:47 PM
Student, 12, Used Shotgun to Shoot 2 Students in Roswell, New Mexico, Cops Say
Jan. 14, 2014
By ALYSSA NEWCOMB, MARIA NIKIAS and CLAYTON SANDELL

A middle school student opened fire in his gym with a shotgun today and critically wounded two students in Roswell, N.M., according to authorities.

The injured were a 13-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy who were "simply sitting in their gym waiting to go to class," New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez said. The shooting occurred shortly before class was to begin at Berrendo Middle School.

The Eastern New Mexico Medical Center confirmed it treated two patients, who were then air lifted to the University Medical Center in Lubbock, Texas, located about 175 miles from the middle school.

A spokesperson for UMC said the boy, who the governor said was 12, is out of surgery and is listed in critical condition. The girl, 13, is also being treated at the hospital and is listed in serious condition, according to the spokesperson. A school staff member suffered a minor injury and declined treatment.

The names of the shooting victims have not been released.

PHOTOS: The Scene Outside Berrendo Middle School

Odiee Carranza, an eighth grade student, told the Associated Press a boy bumped into her as he rushed towards the gym and apologized to her. When the boy entered the gym, Carranza said she saw him pull a gun out of a band instrument case and begin shooting. n

She said he shot another boy twice in the face and shoot a girl in the arm.

"Then he shot up in the sky, then dropped the gun, and then some teacher grabbed the kid that had the gun," Carranza told the AP.

Authorities said the weapon was a shotgun and the shooter was a 12-year-old seventh grader.

The governor said a school staffer and an off-duty New Mexico State Police lieutenant who was dropping his child off at the school were instrumental in helping to end the active shooter situation before more people were injured.

New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas said by the time his deputies arrived around 8: 11 a.m., "the weapon, which we believe is a shot gun, was laid on the ground."

The alleged shooter was taken into custody and the chief said it is believed he acted alone.

Kassetas did not disclose a possible motive, but said investigators are "looking at social media outlets and the different forms of communication these kids use to talk to each other."

After the scene was secure this morning, students were bused from the school to Roswell Mall where police said parents will be allowed to pick up their children. Authorities asked parents to stay away from the school during the investigation.

The Roswell incident is the latest school shooting to rattle the country. It comes one month after a gunman open fire at Arapahoe High School in Colorado.

Police said Karl Pierson, 18, who was armed with a shotgun, machete and had Molotov cocktails in his backpack, was intent on seeking "revenge" on the school's debate team instructor who had dropped him from the team.

Pierson came upon senior Claire Davis, 17, while looking for his intended target. He critically wounded the high school senior before police said he took his own life.

Davis died on Dec. 21 from her injuries.

The Arapahoe shooting took place on the eve of the first anniversary of the Sandy Hook school shooting in Newtown, Conn., in which 27 people - most of them first graders - were killed.

The Arapahoe shooting also took place on the eve of the first anniversary of the Sandy Hook school shooting in Newtown, Conn., in which 27 people - most of them first graders - were killed.

BlackHelicopters
01-14-2014, 04:51 PM
Horrible

DMAC
01-14-2014, 04:54 PM
wtf

Reaper16
01-14-2014, 04:55 PM
Student, 12, Used Shotgun to Shoot 2 Students in Roswell, New Mexico, Cops Say
Jan. 14, 2014
By ALYSSA NEWCOMB, MARIA NIKIAS and CLAYTON SANDELL

A middle school student opened fire in his gym with a shotgun today and critically wounded two students in Roswell, N.M., according to authorities.

The injured were a 13-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy who were "simply sitting in their gym waiting to go to class," New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez said. The shooting occurred shortly before class was to begin at Berrendo Middle School.

The Eastern New Mexico Medical Center confirmed it treated two patients, who were then air lifted to the University Medical Center in Lubbock, Texas, located about 175 miles from the middle school.

A spokesperson for UMC said the boy, who the governor said was 12, is out of surgery and is listed in critical condition. The girl, 13, is also being treated at the hospital and is listed in serious condition, according to the spokesperson. A school staff member suffered a minor injury and declined treatment.

The names of the shooting victims have not been released.

PHOTOS: The Scene Outside Berrendo Middle School

Odiee Carranza, an eighth grade student, told the Associated Press a boy bumped into her as he rushed towards the gym and apologized to her. When the boy entered the gym, Carranza said she saw him pull a gun out of a band instrument case and begin shooting. n

She said he shot another boy twice in the face and shoot a girl in the arm.

"Then he shot up in the sky, then dropped the gun, and then some teacher grabbed the kid that had the gun," Carranza told the AP.

Authorities said the weapon was a shotgun and the shooter was a 12-year-old seventh grader.

The governor said a school staffer and an off-duty New Mexico State Police lieutenant who was dropping his child off at the school were instrumental in helping to end the active shooter situation before more people were injured.

New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas said by the time his deputies arrived around 8: 11 a.m., "the weapon, which we believe is a shot gun, was laid on the ground."

The alleged shooter was taken into custody and the chief said it is believed he acted alone.

Kassetas did not disclose a possible motive, but said investigators are "looking at social media outlets and the different forms of communication these kids use to talk to each other."

After the scene was secure this morning, students were bused from the school to Roswell Mall where police said parents will be allowed to pick up their children. Authorities asked parents to stay away from the school during the investigation.

The Roswell incident is the latest school shooting to rattle the country. It comes one month after a gunman open fire at Arapahoe High School in Colorado.

Police said Karl Pierson, 18, who was armed with a shotgun, machete and had Molotov cocktails in his backpack, was intent on seeking "revenge" on the school's debate team instructor who had dropped him from the team.

Pierson came upon senior Claire Davis, 17, while looking for his intended target. He critically wounded the high school senior before police said he took his own life.

Davis died on Dec. 21 from her injuries.

The Arapahoe shooting took place on the eve of the first anniversary of the Sandy Hook school shooting in Newtown, Conn., in which 27 people - most of them first graders - were killed.

The Arapahoe shooting also took place on the eve of the first anniversary of the Sandy Hook school shooting in Newtown, Conn., in which 27 people - most of them first graders - were killed.

http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/goodfellas-jimmy-two-times.jpg

Donger
01-14-2014, 04:58 PM
Ban illegal aliens.

Tombstone RJ
01-14-2014, 04:59 PM
I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying: where are the parents of the shooter and where did the shooter get the gun? Where is the shooters parents in all of this?

blame the shooter's parents. end of discussion.

BlackHelicopters
01-14-2014, 04:59 PM
Ban debate teams.

Deberg_1990
01-14-2014, 05:03 PM
I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying: where are the parents of the shooter and where did the shooter get the gun? Where is the shooters parents in all of this?

blame the shooter's parents. end of discussion.

This. Start holding parents responsible for irresponsible parenting
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Christopher
01-14-2014, 05:05 PM
What the hell is wrong with New Mexico??

Gravedigger
01-14-2014, 05:09 PM
I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying: where are the parents of the shooter and where did the shooter get the gun? Where is the shooters parents in all of this?

blame the shooter's parents. end of discussion.

Discussing this, they won't be blamed for it, they won't be charged, they won't be disciplined, their negligence and ignorance won't be made an example of, they'll get off scott free. I disapprove of it, if you own a licensed firearm then you are responsible for what happens in some regard. If your kid shoots up his classmates by using your gun, however he obtained it, you should be tried with reckless endangerment, face a small prison sentence, just something. The accountability of it all is just grossly disturbing. I'm not saying ban guns, I'm saying hold the people responsible for their right to carry.

gblowfish
01-14-2014, 05:12 PM
If the shooter was a 12-year old boy, it'll probably all be cleared from his record when he turns 18. Like nothing ever happened.

Easy 6
01-14-2014, 05:25 PM
Thought I'd heard earlier today that both kids died.

The dad belongs in prison for letting a 12 year old have easy access to a firearm.

TheUte
01-14-2014, 05:27 PM
Parents have to start being held accountable, this shit is just crazy.

Just to damn sad.

Eleazar
01-14-2014, 05:27 PM
I'm not saying ban guns, I'm saying hold the people responsible for their right to carry.

Right to carry... a shotgun?

The Franchise
01-14-2014, 05:56 PM
Did i miss where it said where he got the gun from?

Jimmya
01-14-2014, 07:14 PM
Where's pos Biden now? He kept saying shotguns don't hurt people like AKs.

TripleThreat
01-14-2014, 07:19 PM
I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying: where are the parents of the shooter and where did the shooter get the gun? Where is the shooters parents in all of this?

blame the shooter's parents. end of discussion.

Blame the shooters parents.? Yes because we are positive the shotgun this kid had is from his family's let alone his parents house/possession...

Chief Roundup
01-14-2014, 07:19 PM
Ban illegal aliens.

I think these aliens might have been from further away than Mexico. It is Roswell, New Mexico after all.

Jimmya
01-14-2014, 07:20 PM
Liberals......blame everyone but the shooter. Wow!

TheUte
01-14-2014, 07:30 PM
Liberals......blame everyone but the shooter. Wow!

How the fuck does a 12 year have access to a shot gun?

What is right with that, seriously doesn't make me a liberal to say 12 years shouldn't fucking guns sorry.

Who ever owns the gun should be prosecuted.

Chief Roundup
01-14-2014, 07:35 PM
How the **** does a 12 year have access to a shot gun?

What is right with that, seriously doesn't make me a liberal to say 12 years shouldn't ****ing guns sorry.

Who ever owns the gun should be prosecuted.

Let me guess you think all guns should be locked up.
There are 3 of my guns that are hanging on the rack on the wall in my bedroom. Shotgun, a .22, and a .300, I also a Glock in the holster hanging there as well.

TheUte
01-14-2014, 07:37 PM
Let me guess you think all guns should be locked up.
There are 3 of my guns that are hanging on the rack on the wall in my bedroom. Shotgun, a .22, and a .300, I also a Glock in the holster hanging there as well.

I think you should do with your guns what you will.

If you don't want to lock em up don't.

But if something happens with one of your guns you should be responsible.

Eleazar
01-14-2014, 07:49 PM
I am as pro-2nd as can be, and I agree that if your kids have access and do something bad, you should face consequences.

Deberg_1990
01-14-2014, 07:50 PM
Let me guess you think all guns should be locked up.
There are 3 of my guns that are hanging on the rack on the wall in my bedroom. Shotgun, a .22, and a .300, I also a Glock in the holster hanging there as well.

Hopefully you don't have any 12 year olds living with you?
Posted via Mobile Device

Chief Roundup
01-14-2014, 07:54 PM
Hopefully you don't have any 12 year olds living with you?
Posted via Mobile Device

The youngest I have is a 15 yr. old daughter at home.

Chief Roundup
01-14-2014, 07:58 PM
I am as pro-2nd as can be, and I agree that if your kids have access and do something bad, you should face consequences.

So if my kid goes out and kills someone with a car I guess I am suppose to be liable for that too.
Come on now. If one of my kids makes a choice to use one of my guns for something/anything illegal that is on my child.

Deberg_1990
01-14-2014, 08:04 PM
So if my kid goes out and kills someone with a car I guess I am suppose to be liable for that too.
Come on now. If one of my kids makes a choice to use one of my guns for something/anything illegal that is on my child.

Different situations. If your talking about a car accident, its exactly that. An accident.

This gun incident didn't happen by accident
Posted via Mobile Device

Chief Roundup
01-14-2014, 08:14 PM
Different situations. If your talking about a car accident, its exactly that. An accident.

This gun incident didn't happen by accident
Posted via Mobile Device

Good point, but there are people that use their vehicles as "weapons". I am sure you have seen this as well.
Still as long as I didn't put the idea of killing someone into that childs mind I should not be held accountable for their actions. The minute that child TAKES my gun and leaves the house with the gun, without my knowledge or permission the actions that follow are all on that child or person that took the gun.
We can only raise them as best we can. If there was a child in the home with mental issues that would definitely change my stance on my guns being loaded and easily accessible.

sd4chiefs
01-14-2014, 08:47 PM
It seems like this is happing now about once a week.

Why Not?
01-14-2014, 09:19 PM
Good point, but there are people that use their vehicles as "weapons". I am sure you have seen this as well.
Still as long as I didn't put the idea of killing someone into that childs mind I should not be held accountable for their actions. The minute that child TAKES my gun and leaves the house with the gun, without my knowledge or permission the actions that follow are all on that child or person that took the gun.
We can only raise them as best we can. If there was a child in the home with mental issues that would definitely change my stance on my guns being loaded and easily accessible.

In some cases, like if my kid stole something from a store, I agree he should face the consequences. But if my kid takes my gun and used it to harm others, damn right I should be held some form of accountable. It is on me to keep my guns safely secured. If my kids are to mentally unstable I should make sure they never have access to my guns. And yes I have guns and kids

Simplicity
01-14-2014, 09:24 PM
Let me guess you think all guns should be locked up.
There are 3 of my guns that are hanging on the rack on the wall in my bedroom. Shotgun, a .22, and a .300, I also a Glock in the holster hanging there as well.

Found the parent!!!

Simplicity
01-14-2014, 09:27 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/355/860/9b1.jpg

Jimmya
01-14-2014, 09:42 PM
So if a kids takes a Butcher knife from the kitchen and kills.......mom should be prosecuted? Wow....liberal mania around here.

TheUte
01-14-2014, 09:55 PM
So now personal responsibility is bad. Got it.

And a Kitchen Knife and a shotgun are the same thing. Got it.

Somebody disagrees with something the are a liberal. Got it.

You are never going to convince any sane person that a 12 year having access to a shotgun is a good idea.

Gravedigger
01-14-2014, 10:01 PM
So if my kid goes out and kills someone with a car I guess I am suppose to be liable for that too.
Come on now. If one of my kids makes a choice to use one of my guns for something/anything illegal that is on my child.

Kids aren't copying other kids by running people over with cars on purpose to get media exposure and then end their lives at the same time. You have to understand the difference and the copycat mentality of kids nowadays trying to one up each other. It's not as simple as comparing guns to another licensed item that can kill. We get it, you don't like congress trying to take yer guns but understand both sides instead of just trying to switch the focus of the argument to compare apples to oranges.

Jimmya
01-14-2014, 10:04 PM
If you pansy liberals lived in texas you would pass out. Just about every home has access to shotguns and rifles.

Simplicity
01-14-2014, 10:09 PM
If you pansy liberals lived in texas you would pass out. Just about every home has access to shotguns and rifles.

Cool?

-King-
01-14-2014, 10:14 PM
If you pansy liberals lived in texas you would pass out. Just about every home has access to shotguns and rifles.

You want a cookie?

Deberg_1990
01-14-2014, 10:16 PM
Just about every home has access to shotguns and rifles.

Nobody is saying that is wrong. If your going to own them, then be responsible and take action to ensure they don't end up in children's hands unsupervised.

Jimmya
01-14-2014, 10:18 PM
And knives and screwdrivers and anything else that can be used as a weapon. It's the 12 yr olds fault. He knows right from wrong plain and simple.

Easy 6
01-14-2014, 10:54 PM
LMAO someone must've repped jimmy for the "pansy ass by gawd liberals" crack.

Heres a fact... it doesnt ****ing MATTER if the kid knows wrong from right, RESPONSIBLE ****ing gun owners/parents dont give TWELVE YEAR OLDS unfettered ****ing ACCESS to firearms, PERIOD.

A Salt Weapon
01-15-2014, 12:23 AM
LMAO someone must've repped jimmy for the "pansy ass by gawd liberals" crack.

Heres a fact... it doesnt ****ing MATTER if the kid knows wrong from right, RESPONSIBLE ****ing gun owners/parents dont give TWELVE YEAR OLDS unfettered ****ing ACCESS to firearms, PERIOD.

Bullshit, get your ass out of the city and into the wild. Myself and everyone I knew growing up had plenty of access to firearms at a younger age than 12. Surprisingly no shootings, school shootings are not a problem of guns, they are a parenting problem and societal conditioning that guns are "evil", kids without mental illnesses that are brought up around guns do not do this kind of shit.
Good ol liberals, "let's blame the inanimate object." Fucking dipshits.

Easy 6
01-15-2014, 12:52 AM
Bullshit, get your ass out of the city and into the wild. Myself and everyone I knew growing up had plenty of access to firearms at a younger age than 12. Surprisingly no shootings, school shootings are not a problem of guns, they are a parenting problem and societal conditioning that guns are "evil", kids without mental illnesses that are brought up around guns do not do this kind of shit.
Good ol liberals, "let's blame the inanimate object." ****ing dipshits.

I was born in the country, hoss... and I'm no liberal, atleast in the sense you're trying to sling it.

I'm willing to bet you're atleast in your 40's and probably older, I dont know what it is, but shits different with many kids today IMO, too many have no self control and too many parents are too permissive.

I realize there are exceptions to the rule around the country, mostly rural kids who grew up around firearms all their life, had good safety practices pounded into their brains by a good dad etc... but most 12 year olds arent responsible enough to just be allowed to grab one out of the ****ing closet anytime they want.

Jimmya
01-15-2014, 08:06 AM
We have rifle competitions here in Texas that begin at 9 yrs old. You are a liberal plain and simple. Lock up your knives and anything that can be a weapon! Wow, by your argument a responsible parent keeps his kid in a bubble and watches their every move.

A Salt Weapon
01-15-2014, 08:17 AM
I'll give you most 12 yr olds aren't responsible enough, I didn't care for the word all.
You lose the bet though, I'm 31 yrs old. I regularly, out camping/hiking not run around in the city, will give my 8 yr old his .22 and and a pocketful of shells and tell him to go practice, that started last summer when he was 7. He has used shotguns with supervision and reduced loads and will be more than ready to use one on his own way before he gets to 12. My 4 yr old and 2 yr old have shot more rounds than most grown-ups, and have been since before they were 2yrs old.
I guarantee none of them will be shooting up a school.

-King-
01-15-2014, 08:23 AM
Do people realize how retarded they seem when they go around calling other people liberals and conservatives to insult them?
Posted via Mobile Device

Jimmya
01-15-2014, 08:26 AM
Great post A Salt.

Eleazar
01-15-2014, 08:28 AM
So if my kid goes out and kills someone with a car I guess I am suppose to be liable for that too.
Come on now. If one of my kids makes a choice to use one of my guns for something/anything illegal that is on my child.

No, it sounds like you'd be guilty of negligent storage.

-King-
01-15-2014, 08:29 AM
Bullshit, get your ass out of the city and into the wild. Myself and everyone I knew growing up had plenty of access to firearms at a younger age than 12. Surprisingly no shootings, school shootings are not a problem of guns, they are a parenting problem and societal conditioning that guns are "evil", kids without mental illnesses that are brought up around guns do not do this kind of shit.
Good ol liberals, "let's blame the inanimate object." Fucking dipshits.
Who the fuck is blaming guns? Are you slow? People are blaming parents for putting the gun in a place a young child has nonrestricted access to it.

Some people see the word "gun" and go full retard with political paranoia
Posted via Mobile Device

Rudy tossed tigger's salad
01-15-2014, 08:32 AM
If you pansy liberals lived in texas you would pass out. Just about every home has access to shotguns and rifles.

I grew up in a gun-free house in Texas :eek:

LiveSteam
01-15-2014, 08:32 AM
Who the fuck is blaming guns? Are you slow? People are blaming parents for putting the gun in a place a young child has nonrestricted access to it.

Some people see the word "ZIMMERMAN " and go full retard with political paranoia
Posted via Mobile Device

:D

Jimmya
01-15-2014, 08:32 AM
Yea....don't blame the 12 yr old...wow

Why Not?
01-15-2014, 08:52 AM
Nobody is saying that is wrong. If your going to own them, then be responsible and take action to ensure they don't end up in children's hands unsupervised.

This. I'm not sure why the big debate when this is all that needs to be said

A Salt Weapon
01-15-2014, 08:54 AM
Who the fuck is blaming guns? Are you slow? People are blaming parents for putting the gun in a place a young child has nonrestricted access to it.

Some people see the word "gun" and go full retard with political paranoia
Posted via Mobile Device

A 12 yr old is a young child now? Jeez, we were considered men at 12.

Is this part of that whole live at home until 30, stay on your parents health care plan until 25, not learn how to pay bills until 40 thing the liberals are always pushing for?

Eleazar
01-15-2014, 09:02 AM
A 12-year old is not a young child, but a 12-year old still doesn't have the ability to evaluate the consequences of their decisions in the same way an adult does.

kepp
01-15-2014, 09:07 AM
I am as pro-2nd as can be, and I agree that if your kids have access and do something bad, you should face consequences.

I agree. All mine are locked away and only my wife and I have access to them.

Fish
01-15-2014, 09:22 AM
A 12-year old is not a young child, but a 12-year old still doesn't have the ability to evaluate the consequences of their decisions in the same way an adult does.

Ehh... I owned a shotgun when I was 12. It was kept in my room.

If you're taught the necessary respect and given the proper moral upbringing, it's really not that big of a deal. The problem is that some kids are morally bankrupt and have no sufficient parenting. People probably cringe when they hear it, but millions of homes in America have accessible guns.

Jimmya
01-15-2014, 09:26 AM
Liberals children are adults when they turn 30....and it will still be someone else's fault when they screw up.

kepp
01-15-2014, 09:28 AM
Ehh... I owned a shotgun when I was 12. It was kept in my room.

If you're taught the necessary respect and given the proper moral upbringing, it's really not that big of a deal. The problem is that some kids are morally bankrupt and have no sufficient parenting. People probably cringe when they hear it, but millions of homes in America have accessible guns.

It absolutely comes down to parenting. I also had access to guns when I was young...shotgun, .22, and a 9mm if I climbed up in my Dad's closet. My friends and I always took our .22s out with a brick of ammo for the day. I was taught how to handle guns and to have respect for them.

-King-
01-15-2014, 09:46 AM
A 12 yr old is a young child now? Jeez, we were considered men at 12.

Is this part of that whole live at home until 30, stay on your parents health care plan until 25, not learn how to pay bills until 40 thing the liberals are always pushing for?
Who considered you a man at 12? That's ridiculous. Yeah maybe they're not a young child, but they are preteens.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pablo
01-15-2014, 09:48 AM
Liberals children are adults when they turn 30....and it will still be someone else's fault when they screw up.Librrrrrulll derpy derp.

That is your basic contribution to this thread.

-King-
01-15-2014, 09:49 AM
Yea....don't blame the 12 yr old...wow

So at what age isn't a parent responsible for the actions of his kid? 5? 7? 10?
Posted via Mobile Device

-King-
01-15-2014, 09:49 AM
Librrrrrulll derpy derp.

That is your basic contribution to this thread.

Its like they're TRYING to be caricatures.
Posted via Mobile Device

gblowfish
01-15-2014, 09:53 AM
So if a kids takes a Butcher knife from the kitchen and kills.......mom should be prosecuted? Wow....liberal mania around here.

LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALSLIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS
LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS
LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS
LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS
LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS
LIBERALS!!!

TheUte
01-15-2014, 09:53 AM
Why do we not let 12 year olds Vote or Drink or get Married or Drive a Car?

Most 12 year olds can't make intelligent decisions.

Why is advocating personal responsibility so bad?

gblowfish
01-15-2014, 09:56 AM
Oh, and btw:

Off to the DC in 3.......2.......1.....

A Salt Weapon
01-15-2014, 09:56 AM
Who considered you a man at 12? That's ridiculous. Yeah maybe they're not a young child, but they are preteens.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm sorry your sheltered upbringing had you still playing with dolls at 12, breast-feeding and watching Sesame street, but out in the country 12 yr olds are treated like men.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:10 AM
I'm sorry your sheltered upbringing had you still playing with dolls at 12, breast-feeding and watching Sesame street, but out in the country 12 yr olds are treated like men.

Holy fuck what a stupid response, don't even know where to begin.

Pablo
01-15-2014, 10:12 AM
Holy fuck what a stupid response, don't even know where to begin. And the twelve year olds are treated like women too! We let them marry and breed real young like.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:13 AM
And the twelve year olds are treated like women too! We let them marry and breed real young like.

Holy fuck that is good.

Stop with the logical it hurts. ROFL

BigCatDaddy
01-15-2014, 10:15 AM
Sorry to interrupt the bullshit, but do we have a motive yet?

Based on the fact that the shooter had a musical instrument case I have to think maybe he was being bullied.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:17 AM
Sorry to interrupt the bullshit, but do we have a motive yet?

What possible motive could there be?

oh yeah he is 12, Maybe it was his wife and her lover.

The 12 year love triangle.

KCUnited
01-15-2014, 10:17 AM
Sorry to interrupt the bullshit, but do we have a motive yet?

He was tired of paying taxes, working for the man, and being behind on his mortgage.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 10:19 AM
Nobody is saying that is wrong. If your going to own them, then be responsible and take action to ensure they don't end up in children's hands unsupervised.

Yeah and when some fucktard breaks into my house while I am sleeping I would have to unlock a case to get my gun out. Meanwhile my family is being harmed. When I could have immediately stopped it if I wouldn't have had to fumble around with a key when I am startled from a dead sleep.
If you have not ever had someone break into your home like this you may not understand that 3 minutes is a LOOONG time.

BigCatDaddy
01-15-2014, 10:20 AM
What possible motive could there be?

oh yeah he is 12, Maybe it was his wife and her lover.

The 12 year love triangle.

Perhaps he was being bullied and harrassed by the "victim". Usually someone doesn't stick a shotgun in an instrument case and apologize for bumping in to a young lady before shooting his target in the face.

The Franchise
01-15-2014, 10:21 AM
Have they confirmed that he got it from his house?

The Franchise
01-15-2014, 10:22 AM
So....a question....

Say the 12 year old kid notices that his next door neighbor doesn't lock up his guns. Neighbor is gone....kid breaks into the house and steals the gun. Do you blame the parents? The neighbor? Just the kid?

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:28 AM
So....a question....

Say the 12 year old kid notices that his next door neighbor doesn't lock up his guns. Neighbor is gone....kid breaks into the house and steals the gun. Do you blame the parents? The neighbor? Just the kid?

So a question for you. Do you really want to live in a society where every one is packing?

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 10:28 AM
A 12 yr old is a young child now? Jeez, we were considered men at 12.

LOL so your daddy let you shoot a gun and it made you feel bigger than your little britches.
A 12 year old treated like a man. LOL that shit it hilarious. Dude I am 43 years old. I was raised on a little over 10,000 acres in southern Missouri. It was a 45 minute ride to the nearest town larger than 300 people. I carried a gun every day with me around on the farm. The community was so small that they would actually call school off for deer season as well in harvesting time.
Never ever was our would a 12 year old be treated like or viewed as a MAN. Shit man they stopped letting kids get married that young and live as adults in the 1950's.
Just because your parents let you shoot a gun at a young age doesn't mean they treated you like a man. It merely means they thought you would listen to them no matter what....even with a loaded gun.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 10:30 AM
So a question for you. Do you really want to live in a society where every one is packing?

I would have no problem with it. It might actually cause people to have a little more fucking respect for others. Because there would be an immediate price to pay for acting like or being a fucktard.

The Franchise
01-15-2014, 10:30 AM
So a question for you. Do you really want to live in a society where every one is packing?

What are you, Donger? Answer my question first.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:34 AM
What are you, Donger? Answer my question first.

I thought the previous posts were very clear.

If you own a gun you should be responsible, period.

You can choose not to lock it up, but if something bad happens it on you.

If you teach you kids how to respect guns and are confident with that do what you will.

But don't fucking arm a twelve year old and send them out into the world and expect everyone to say "Oh he's just a twelve you old."

I just don't fucking understand how what the fuck is so bad about that.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:37 AM
I would have no problem with it. It might actually cause people to have a little more ****ing respect for others. Because there would be an immediate price to pay for acting like or being a ****tard.

The problem that would not happen, I get the idea of what you are saying, it just wouldn't.

Children don't understand they lack the capacity to understand.

The Franchise
01-15-2014, 10:38 AM
I thought the previous posts were very clear.

If you own a gun you should be responsible, period.

You can choose not to lock it up, but if something bad happens it on you.

If you teach you kids how to respect guns and are confident with that do what you will.

But don't fucking arm a twelve year old and send them out into the world and expect everyone to say "Oh he's just a twelve you old."

I just don't fucking understand how what the fuck is so bad about that.

Did you read my fucking post?

So according to you.....if you don't have any kids and don't lock up your guns....then anyone who breaks into your house, steals those guns and then murders someone....is on you.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 10:40 AM
Did you read my ****ing post?

So according to you.....if you don't have any kids and don't lock up your guns....then anyone who breaks into your house, steals those guns and then murders someone....is on you.

I guess I mis-read it.

No of course not.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 10:43 AM
The problem that would not happen, I get the idea of what you are saying, it just wouldn't.

Children don't understand they lack the capacity to understand.

As well as I understand that people carrying all the time would lead to a lot of unnecessary killings.
But what it would do is teach the kids through their parents actions. The kids wouldn't see their parents acting so irresponsible with what they say and do. That would teach the kids a lot that they don't get taught in todays society. Where it is excepted that people have little to no respect for themselves let alone others.

Fish
01-15-2014, 10:45 AM
I would have no problem with it. It might actually cause people to have a little more fucking respect for others. Because there would be an immediate price to pay for acting like or being a fucktard.

Hopefully not. The purpose of gun ownership should never ever be to simply raise the bar regarding possible retribution. That's irresponsible thinking.

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 10:48 AM
So if a kids takes a Butcher knife from the kitchen and kills.......mom should be prosecuted? Wow....liberal mania around here.

I'm as conservative as it gets but what I'm saying is very simple--somewhere, somehow, the parents of this child are responsible for his actions and behavior.

I'm advocating on a case-by-case basis that yes indeed, the parents can be held responsible when their 12 old child grabs a shotgun and takes it to school and kills some other kids.

First of all, how did the child get the weapon and hide it in the instument case without SOMEONE noticing? What is going on in this child's life that he feels some other kids NEED TO DIE?

The parents should know. The parents should be involved enough in this child's life to say "hey son, why are you packing up a loaded shotgun into your trombone case? Can we talk?"

I mean, this is common sense.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 10:53 AM
Hopefully not. The purpose of gun ownership should never ever be to simply raise the bar regarding possible retribution. That's irresponsible thinking.

No that was a direct response to everyone carrying guns openly. If everyone is carrying guns around with them people are less likely to be insulting and rude for fear of reprisals. That is the way it was before and would be again if every person was allowed to carry a gun.

The Franchise
01-15-2014, 10:55 AM
I'm as conservative as it gets but what I'm saying is very simple--somewhere, somehow, the parents of this child are responsible for his actions and behavior.

I'm advocating on a case-by-case basis that yes indeed, the parents can be held responsible when their 12 old child grabs a shotgun and takes it to school and kills some other kids.

First of all, how did the child get the weapon and hide it in the instument case without SOMEONE noticing? What is going on in this child's life that he feels some other kids NEED TO DIE?

The parents should know. The parents should be involved enough in this child's life to say "hey son, why are you packing up a loaded shotgun into your trombone case? Can we talk?"

I mean, this is common sense.

We've had this discussion before. You can be involved in the child's life and still not know that the child is having disturbed thoughts or is having issues. It's possible. That's why you have kids who end up murdering their parents and no one has any idea about WHY it happened or what set him off.

Neglecting your kids? Yeah....you should be held responsible.

-King-
01-15-2014, 11:02 AM
Yeah and when some fucktard breaks into my house while I am sleeping I would have to unlock a case to get my gun out. Meanwhile my family is being harmed. When I could have immediately stopped it if I wouldn't have had to fumble around with a key when I am startled from a dead sleep.
If you have not ever had someone break into your home like this you may not understand that 3 minutes is a LOOONG time.

If you can't open a case using a key or a code when you are sleepy, how do you ever hope to operate a gun in the same condition?
Posted via Mobile Device

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 11:02 AM
We've had this discussion before. You can be involved in the child's life and still not know that the child is having disturbed thoughts or is having issues. It's possible. That's why you have kids who end up murdering their parents and no one has any idea about WHY it happened or what set him off.

Neglecting your kids? Yeah....you should be held responsible.

to counter this argument, if the parents of this child are involved in the child's life and were good parents and loved the child and provided for the child and the child STILL did this, then all of that will come out in court, yes?

I mean, all of this will be revealed in the investigation, yes? I'm not advocating locking up GOOD PARENTS who have psycho kids who are uncontrollable. I'm advocating the prosecution of BAD PARENTS who are not involved in their kid's lifes and had they been the least little bit involved, this shooting would have never happened.

I guarantee you that the parents of this child shooter are at the very least, not involved in any meaningful way in this kid's life. They don't talk to him. They don't ask him simple questions like "how's you day going?" I'm guessing they let this kid sit in his room and play video games all the time. I'm guessing that the dad who owns this shotgun is probably an alcoholic or not at home or this kid is from a single parent family.

Aspengc8
01-15-2014, 11:06 AM
to counter this argument, if the parents of this child are involved in the child's life and were good parents and loved the child and provided for the child and the child STILL did this, then all of that will come out in court, yes?

I mean, all of this will be revealed in the investigation, yes? I'm not advocating locking up GOOD PARENTS who have psycho kids who are uncontrollable. I'm advocating the prosecution of BAD PARENTS who are not involved in their kid's lifes and had they been the least little bit involved, this shooting would have never happened.

I guarantee you that the parents of this child shooter are at the very least, not involved in any meaningful way in this kid's life. They don't talk to him. They don't ask him simple questions like "how's you day going?" I'm guessing they let this kid sit in his room and play video games all the time. I'm guessing that the dad who owns this shotgun is probably an alcoholic or not at home or this kid is from a single parent family.

So a single parent with 3 kids, working 2 jobs to put them through school & food, would be to blame because she/he doesn't have enough time to go around? Common sense is common. This kid lacked common sense.

The Franchise
01-15-2014, 11:07 AM
to counter this argument, if the parents of this child are involved in the child's life and were good parents and loved the child and provided for the child and the child STILL did this, then all of that will come out in court, yes?

I mean, all of this will be revealed in the investigation, yes? I'm not advocating locking up GOOD PARENTS who have psycho kids who are uncontrollable. I'm advocating the prosecution of BAD PARENTS who are not involved in their kid's lifes and had they been the least little bit involved, this shooting would have never happened.

I guarantee you that the parents of this child shooter are at the very least, not involved in any meaningful way in this kid's life. They don't talk to him. They don't ask him simple questions like "how's you day going?" I'm guessing they let this kid sit in his room and play video games all the time. I'm guessing that the dad who owns this shotgun is probably an alcoholic or not at home or this kid is from a single parent family.

Come out in court? No. Come out in the investigation leading up to court? Yes.

And you look like a dipshit for guaranteeing something that you have no clue about.

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 11:10 AM
Come out in court? No. Come out in the investigation leading up to court? Yes.

And you look like a dipshit for guaranteeing something that you have no clue about.

like I said, if the parents could be held responsible for this kid's actions and I'm proven wrong then fine. But something happened. Something where a 12 year old kid decided to take a loaded shotgun to school and kill some other kids.

where there's smoke, there's fire.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 11:11 AM
If you can't open a case using a key or a code when you are sleepy, how do you ever hope to operate a gun in the same condition?
Posted via Mobile Device

Believe me you are not "sleepy" when you get woke up like this.

Dude when you heart is racing as fast as it can go and you are trying to go through a key ring to find the key, and get the case open while hearing members of your family screaming and scared it puts a different type of nervousness into a person. It doesn't matter if you are nervous when wielding a 12 gauge pump shotgun. Unlike if you are trying to use a hand gun or single shot rifle.

Fish
01-15-2014, 11:25 AM
No that was a direct response to everyone carrying guns openly. If everyone is carrying guns around with them people are less likely to be insulting and rude for fear of reprisals. That is the way it was before and would be again if every person was allowed to carry a gun.

I understand what you're saying, I just think you're using the wrong angle. You're focusing on using fear to shape society, and I don't agree with that approach. You can teach people to have respect for each other, without using the fear of getting shot over a disagreement as motivation. The intent of open carry should not be to simply instill a fear of reprisals. The wild west saw lots of people killed over stupid minor things. That's not what we need. We have way too much fear in our society already. That's a big part of the problem. What we need is respect. But we can't force people to respect each other through the fear of violent retaliation with guns.

If we just find a way to better respect each other, we won't feel the need to kill each other over a simple disagreement. Even if you happen to have a gun at your hip. It starts with respect, and we can't enforce that at gunpoint.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 11:28 AM
I understand what you're saying, I just think you're using the wrong angle. You're focusing on using fear to shape society, and I don't agree with that approach. You can teach people to have respect for each other, without using the fear of getting shot over a disagreement as motivation. The intent of open carry should not be to simply instill a fear of reprisals. The wild west saw lots of people killed over stupid minor things. That's not what we need. We have way too much fear in our society already. That's a big part of the problem. What we need is respect. But we can't force people to respect each other through the fear of violent retaliation with guns.

If we just find a way to better respect each other, we won't feel the need to kill each other over a simple disagreement. Even if you happen to have a gun at your hip. It starts with respect, and we can't enforce that at gunpoint.

WOW, Very well said. Could not agree more.

Jimmya
01-15-2014, 11:32 AM
I don't lock my shotguns at night. Had a neighbor stay in icu at hospital because burglar shot him 6 times in his house. Neighbor couldn't get his key to open the gun cabinet. Says he would never lock his shotguns up again.

ActiveShooter
01-15-2014, 11:38 AM
So a question for you. Do you really want to live in a society where every one is packing?

YES YES YES

ActiveShooter
01-15-2014, 11:39 AM
The problem that would not happen, I get the idea of what you are saying, it just wouldn't.

Children don't understand they lack the capacity to understand.

Liberals too.

Contrarian
01-15-2014, 11:57 AM
I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying: where are the parents of the shooter and where did the shooter get the gun? Where is the shooters parents in all of this?

blame the shooter's parents. end of discussion.

You sir are a fucking idiot!!
At that age your damn kids take responsibility for all of their own actions moron! I don't care who raised his ass I don't care if he's an avid bird hunter, he alone is responsible for his actions!!
Let me get on a rant here - I am sick and tired of dickheads like you who think that parents are to blame for the actions of an individual youth. This is the time in our existence where you get what you asked for people. You want to take corporal punishment out of schools and away from parents, you want to create a world of winners without confessing to your youths that there are losers, you want to fill a child's head with the assumptions of grandiose entitlement - then this is the shit you get in return.
Aw little Billy got his feelings hurt on Facebook then little Billy gets a gun out of the closet and shoots people. Fuck Billy!!!

Contrarian
01-15-2014, 12:02 PM
I understand what you're saying, I just think you're using the wrong angle. You're focusing on using fear to shape society, and I don't agree with that approach. You can teach people to have respect for each other, without using the fear of getting shot over a disagreement as motivation. The intent of open carry should not be to simply instill a fear of reprisals. The wild west saw lots of people killed over stupid minor things. That's not what we need. We have way too much fear in our society already. That's a big part of the problem. What we need is respect. But we can't force people to respect each other through the fear of violent retaliation with guns.

If we just find a way to better respect each other, we won't feel the need to kill each other over a simple disagreement. Even if you happen to have a gun at your hip. It starts with respect, and we can't enforce that at gunpoint.

Unicorns and rainbows la la la lal allalala la.
This is what started the whole everyone is a winner there are no losers bullshit that we have now. You know what dude life's a bitch and please be honest to yourself DO YOU respect every walk of life on this earth? Hell no you don't man so stop with this crap already.

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 12:02 PM
You sir are a ****ing idiot!!
At that age your damn kids take responsibility for all of their own actions moron! I don't care who raised his ass I don't care if he's an avid bird hunter, he alone is responsible for his actions!!
Let me get on a rant here - I am sick and tired of dickheads like you who think that parents are to blame for the actions of an individual youth. This is the time in our existence where you get what you asked for people. You want to take corporal punishment out of schools and away from parents, you want to create a world of winners without confessing to your youths that there are losers, you want to fill a child's head with the assumptions of grandiose entitlement - then this is the shit you get in return.
Aw little Billy got his feelings hurt on Facebook then little Billy gets a gun out of the closet and shoots people. **** Billy!!!

lol, I'm as conservative as it gets. I'm just saying that there should be the possibility of prosecuting the parents on a case-by-case basis. These types of shootings are happening more and more and the fact is that the parents of these kids who are committing these crimes are the ones who have to be accountable because these kids are too young to prosecute.

belive me, I'm all for individual freedoms but when a child, a 12 year old child, commits a crime like this simple logic says "where are the parents of this kid?"

Contrarian
01-15-2014, 12:16 PM
They are at fucking work to buy the little fucker a god damn playstation 4 for Christmas dumb shit.

-King-
01-15-2014, 12:18 PM
They are at fucking work to buy the little fucker a god damn playstation 4 for Christmas dumb shit.

Maybe they should have put the guns away then.
Posted via Mobile Device

Easy 6
01-15-2014, 12:19 PM
Hey ya know what, can any of you ****ing chub smokers make a case without the name calling in every single post?

Talk about irresponsible twelve year olds...

Contrarian
01-15-2014, 12:21 PM
Maybe they should have put the guns away then.
Posted via Mobile Device

Maybe it was his gun. Uh yes 12 year olds have guns in this country.

Contrarian
01-15-2014, 12:29 PM
Hey ya know what, can any of you ****ing chub smokers make a case without the name calling in every single post?

Talk about irresponsible twelve year olds...

Sure but out of mutual respect could you refrain from calling me a chub smoker, it hurts my feelings and I am close to running to the gun closet. :rolleyes:

Easy 6
01-15-2014, 12:30 PM
Sure but out of mutual respect could you refrain from calling me a chub smoker, it hurts my feelings and I am close to running to the gun closet. :rolleyes:

I used the name calling to make a point...

Jimmya
01-15-2014, 12:32 PM
I agree...we should be able to disagree without getting all nutzo.

FishingRod
01-15-2014, 12:39 PM
Maybe they should have put the guns away then.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think the fact the kid used a gun instead of a knife or a car or a baseball bat is not relevant. People don’t lock up their car keys and at one point or another most of us snuck out with our parent’s car when we were too young , didn’t have permission or both at the same time. While intent is revelant to the discussion the reslut is what is at issue. At some point a child is no longer a child and is responisble for their own actions. If they have not reached that age the Parents of the child are responsible for the consequences of their children’s actions.
I don’t think we are a more viloet society and the access to firearms is not any differt than it was in the past so the only thing I can think of is that this is a negitive part of our information driven society and creats more copycats. My deepest sympathy goes to the families of the victums and my utmost disdain goes to the cowerdly child that thought it was somehow ok to shoot his classmates.

Gravedigger
01-15-2014, 01:16 PM
I would have no problem with it. It might actually cause people to have a little more ****ing respect for others. Because there would be an immediate price to pay for acting like or being a ****tard.

Like being shot in a movie theater after you were caught texting?

gblowfish
01-15-2014, 01:32 PM
Shooter was identified as 12 year old Mason Campbell. He used a sawed off 20 guage shotgun, which is usually used for things like quail or turkey hunting. Certainly can be deadly at close range.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 01:38 PM
Like being shot in a movie theater after you were caught texting?

He might not have done that knowing everyone else had a gun too.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 01:46 PM
I'm as conservative as it gets but what I'm saying is very simple--somewhere, somehow, the parents of this child are responsible for his actions and behavior.

I'm advocating on a case-by-case basis that yes indeed, the parents can be held responsible when their 12 old child grabs a shotgun and takes it to school and kills some other kids.

First of all, how did the child get the weapon and hide it in the instument case without SOMEONE noticing? What is going on in this child's life that he feels some other kids NEED TO DIE?

The parents should know. The parents should be involved enough in this child's life to say "hey son, why are you packing up a loaded shotgun into your trombone case? Can we talk?"

I mean, this is common sense.

No, it's not. "Shit happens" is common sense. "Let's find out what happened" is common sense. "Blame the parents" is scapegoating.


There's a difference. That seems to have been lost here. Then again, there appears to be a lot of people posting in this thread who know nothing, at all, about guns.

-King-
01-15-2014, 01:51 PM
No, it's not. "Shit happens" is common sense. "Let's find out what happened" is common sense. "Blame the parents" is scapegoating.


There's a difference. That seems to have been lost here. Then again, there appears to be a lot of people posting in this thread who know nothing, at all, about guns.
Like? What does knowledge of guns have to do with anything in this thread?
Posted via Mobile Device

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 01:55 PM
Like? What does knowledge of guns have to do with anything in this thread?
Posted via Mobile Device

:spock:

TheUte
01-15-2014, 02:04 PM
No, it's not. "Shit happens" is common sense. "Let's find out what happened" is common sense. "Blame the parents" is scapegoating.


There's a difference. That seems to have been lost here. Then again, there appears to be a lot of people posting in this thread who know nothing, at all, about guns.

You nailed the problem. Everyone wants to make it about guns.

Which is not really the issue.

Isn't the issue how do we stop killing each other? Especially how do we get kids to stop killing each other?

-King-
01-15-2014, 02:15 PM
:spock:
No, tell me. What do we need to know about guns before posting on this thread? Cause as far as I can tell, how to use a gun or how guns work is irrelevant to this situation.
Posted via Mobile Device

FishingRod
01-15-2014, 02:33 PM
They are inanimate objects.


What are things you need to know about guns for $1000 Alex.

gblowfish
01-15-2014, 03:03 PM
The thing we don't know yet is "why." Why would he go through the building, past other students, into the gym, and shoot this one particular boy in the face? Was he an intended target, or just wrong place at the wrong time? If the shooter was going to just arbitrarily start shooting, he could have done that before going into the gym. Seems to me, at least with what we know right now, that he was looking to exact some revenge on somebody in particular. We'll see when more comes out.

BigCatDaddy
01-15-2014, 03:07 PM
The thing we don't know yet is "why." Why would he go through the building, past other students, into the gym, and shoot this one particular boy in the face? Was he an intended target, or just wrong place at the wrong time? If the shooter was going to just arbitrarily start shooting, he could have done that before going into the gym. Seems to me, at least with what we know right now, that he was looking to exact some revenge on somebody in particular. We'll see when more comes out.

Yeah, I brought them up earlier, but nobody appeared to give it shit about the motive. There is a little more to this one that some dipshit going into a school and blowing people away to become famous.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 03:11 PM
The thing we don't know yet is "why." Why would he go through the building, past other students, into the gym, and shoot this one particular boy in the face? Was he an intended target, or just wrong place at the wrong time? If the shooter was going to just arbitrarily start shooting, he could have done that before going into the gym. Seems to me, at least with what we know right now, that he was looking to exact some revenge on somebody in particular. We'll see when more comes out.

Yeah, I brought them up earlier, but nobody appeared to give it shit about the motive. There is a little more to this one that some dipshit going into a school and blowing people away to become famous.

I kinda get what you are saying, but at the end of the day does the motive really factor into anything.

BigCatDaddy
01-15-2014, 03:23 PM
I kinda get what you are saying, but at the end of the day does the motive really factor into anything.

I'll let you know when we find out what it was. Perhaps there was something else going on that could have been the root of the problem and that's what should be the focus rather than gun safety.

I'm more interested in fixing the disease not the symptom.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 03:27 PM
You nailed the problem. Everyone wants to make it about guns.

Which is not really the issue.

Isn't the issue how do we stop killing each other? Especially how do we get kids to stop killing each other?

There's a bit of that, but homicides have been in general decline in the U.S. for about 2 decades now, and that includes gun homicides, yet people act as if there's a rising tide out there and we're all lucky to be alive. Human nature is human nature, and we'll never get rid of it without changing what it means to be human, but the notion that things are spiraling out of control is mostly the result of agendas being pushed, combined with a 24 hour news cycle. Homicide rates reached highs of 9+ per 100,000 in the 70's and 90's, have been in the 5s for most of the 2000s, and have actually dipped under 5 in recent years, according to the BJS.

In the last decade (since 2000) the homicide rate declined to
levels last seen in the mid-1960s

The homicide rate doubled from the early 1960s to the late
1970s, increasing from 4.6 per 100,000 U.S. residents in 1962
to 9.7 per 100,000 by 1979

In 1980 the rate peaked at 10.2 per 100,000 and subsequently fell
to 7.9 per 100,000 in 1984.

The rate rose again in the late 1980s and early 1990s to another
peak in 1991 of 9.8 per 100,000.

The homicide rate declined sharply from 9.3 homicides per
100,000 in 1992 to 4.8 homicides per 100,000 in 2010.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

The real issue is that there are those in society who are cynically willing to use any tragedy to advance their agenda.

Easy 6
01-15-2014, 03:32 PM
No, tell me. What do we need to know about guns before posting on this thread? Cause as far as I can tell, how to use a gun or how guns work is irrelevant to this situation.
Posted via Mobile Device

Doesnt matter, he just like showing everyone how smart he thinks he is.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 03:35 PM
So what is that age at which a person should be allowed to have unfettered access to a firearm?

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 03:43 PM
There's a bit of that, but homicides have been in general decline in the U.S. for about 2 decades now, and that includes gun homicides, yet people act as if there's a rising tide out there and we're all lucky to be alive. Human nature is human nature, and we'll never get rid of it without changing what it means to be human, but the notion that things are spiraling out of control is mostly the result of agendas being pushed, combined with a 24 hour news cycle. Homicide rates reached highs of 9+ per 100,000 in the 70's and 90's, have been in the 5s for most of the 2000s, and have actually dipped under 5 in recent years, according to the BJS.



http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

The real issue is that there are those in society who are cynically willing to use any tragedy to advance their agenda.

You are the one totally missing the point. Here, let me help you out:

--Our society will demand justice for this horrific event, as it should. However, our society is not willing to blame anyone for this horrific event, at least, not the people most directly responsible.

The child is 12 years old and he will not be prosecuted as an adult. He will get some time in a controlled situation but overall, he's pretty much gonna get nothing as far as punishment, and this is ok. Why? BECAUSE HE'S A KID.

So who we gonna blame for this horrific event? You can't totally blame the kid because he's a kid. So our society will instead do something TOTALLY ASSININE and blame gun manufacturers. Why? Because someone has got to be blamed for this crap. So more gun regulations because you know, the work right? OMFG!

Here's my point--if our society demands justice then blame the people MOST RESPONSIBLE for this child's actions--THE FRIGGEN PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I'm saying. Don't blame guns, don't blame the schools or the teachers or the administrators or the local police or whoever else is gonna get sued because this kid blew some other kid's faces off with a shot gun.

Hold the people most directly responsible for this child shooter's actions and those people are his friggen parents.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 03:46 PM
You are the one totally missing the point. Here, let me help you out:

--Our society will demand justice for this horrific event, as it should. However, our society is not willing to blame anyone for this horrifice event, at least, not the people most direct responsible.

The child is 12 years old and he will not be prosecuted as an adult. He will get some time in a controlled situation but overall, he's pretty much gonna get nothing as far as punishment, and this is ok. Why? BECAUSE HE'S A KID.

So who we gonna blame for this horrific event? You can't totally blame the kid because he's a kid. So our society will instead do something TOTALLY ASSININE and blame gun manufacturers. Why? Because someone has got to be blamed for this crap. So more gun regulations because you know, the work right? OMFG!

Here's my point--if our society demands justice than blame the people MOST RESPONSIBLE for this child's actions--THE FRIGGEN PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I'm saying. Don't blame guns, don't blame the schools or the teachers or the administrators or the local police or whoever else is gonna get sued because this kid blew some other kid's faces off with a shot gun.

Hold the people most directly responsible for this child shooter's actions and those people are is friggen parents.

I'm not missing the point, at all. I'm fully aware of how we, as a society, deal with this stuff, and am horrified by just how stupid we are as a nation. I'm also aware that blaming the parents is generally an incredibly foolish approach. If parents were blamed for all the illegal and/or really stupid actions of their children, we'd have about 5 parents not locked up in the whole country.

BigCatDaddy
01-15-2014, 03:47 PM
So what is that age at which a person should be allowed to have unfettered access to a firearm?

I think it's child dependent. For this 10 & 12 year old I'd say it was ok.

http://www.wafb.com/story/10741492/child-shoots-intruder-during-home-break-in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/oklahoma-girl-shoots-home-intruder_n_1992381.html

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 03:55 PM
I'm not missing the point, at all. I'm fully aware of how we, as a society, deal with this stuff, and am horrified by just how stupid we are as a nation. I'm also aware that blaming the parents is generally an incredibly foolish approach. If parents were blamed for all the illegal and/or really stupid actions of their children, we'd have about 5 parents not locked up in the whole country.

I'm saying the parents should be able to be prosecuted on a CASE-BY-CASE situation. Right now, you can't prosecute the parents at all. I'm not saying that every time a kid does something stupid you take the parents to court, I'm saying that yes, when something this horrific happens, our society should be able to hold the parents at least partially culpable for the child's actions.

If junior goes out and eggs someone's house and takes dad's corvette out of the garage and does some donuts on the neighbors front yard while tossing back a few beers he stole out of dad's frig, then yah, ok. I'm not saying go after the parents because this is pretty typical crap (I know I did this type of stuff, yah, I was an ass as a teenager).

But if little Johnnie takes dad's shotgun to school and kills someone, that's just a little different, don't you think?

TheUte
01-15-2014, 04:05 PM
I'll let you know when we find out what it was. Perhaps there was something else going on that could have been the root of the problem and that's what should be the focus rather than gun safety.

I'm more interested in fixing the disease not the symptom.

I think it's child dependent. For this 10 & 12 year old I'd say it was ok.

http://www.wafb.com/story/10741492/child-shoots-intruder-during-home-break-in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/oklahoma-girl-shoots-home-intruder_n_1992381.html

Well nothing else is based on it's dependent on the child, we have laws regarding everything based on age.

At what point can you get a deer tag, I think it's what 15 or 16?

If you aren't old enough to hunt you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.

I'm sorry 10 or 12 is to young for me.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 04:14 PM
I'm saying the parents should be able to be prosecuted on a CASE-BY-CASE situation. Right now, you can't prosecute the parents at all. I'm not saying that every time a kid does something stupid you take the parents to court, I'm saying that yes, when something this horrific happens, our society should be able to hold the parents at least partially culpable for the child's actions.

If junior goes out and eggs someone's house and takes dad's corvette out of the garage and does some donuts on the neighbors front yard while tossing back a few beers he stole out of dad's frig, then yah, ok. I'm not saying go after the parents because this is pretty typical crap (I know I did this type of stuff, yah, I was an ass as a teenager).

But if little Johnnie takes dad's shotgun to school and kills someone, that's just a little different, don't you think?

No

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 04:19 PM
No

:rolleyes:

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 04:22 PM
:rolleyes:

Your eyeroll isn't going to change anything, and basing prosecution on something happening that reaches some threshhold that you called 'horrific' is stupid, and it's incredibly bad public policy.

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 04:26 PM
Your eyeroll isn't going to change anything, and basing prosecution on something happening that reaches some threshhold that you called 'horrific' is stupid, and it's incredibly bad public policy.

so you are saying that child homicide is no different than if the child just went to school and punched the other kid in the face?

again: :rolleyes:

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 04:29 PM
so you are saying that child homicide is no different than if the child just went to school and punched the other kid in the face?

again: :rolleyes:

No, I'm saying that your argument for treating the parents differently is based solely upon your interpretation of what is (your word) horrific, and that's stupid and poor public policy. The underlying issue in your hypothetical is still the same, and that's a claim that the parent should bear responsibility.

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 04:34 PM
No, I'm saying that your argument for treating the parents differently is based solely upon your interpretation of what is (your word) horrific, and that's stupid and poor public policy. The underlying issue in your hypothetical is still the same, and that's a claim that the parent should bear responsibility.

I think homicide aka murder is pretty bad, but that's just me. I think that instead of going after something completely stupid, like the gun manufacturers, I think it makes way more sense to go after the people most directly involved in this kid's life (or not involved due to being negligent parents).

Hey, I'm also all for people just throwing up their hands and saying "shit happens" and walking away. But we don't live in that kind of society. So someone will get blamed. I'm saying that IF someone has to be blamed in order that justice be served, the parents should be at the top of the list and investigated. In cases like child-on-child murder, yes.

TheUte
01-15-2014, 04:37 PM
Parents should be held responsible for the children.

Why should someone get to choose to have children and the raise them like heathens and unleash them on society with no repercussion.

**** that, people need to be held accountable for their choices and actions.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 04:50 PM
I think homicide aka murder is pretty bad, but that's just me. I think that instead of going after something completely stupid, like the gun manufacturers, I think it makes way more sense to go after the people most directly involved in this kid's life (or not involved due to being negligent parents).

Hey, I'm also all for people just throwing up their hands and saying "shit happens" and walking away. But we don't live in that kind of society. So someone will get blamed. I'm saying that IF someone has to be blamed in order that justice be served, the parents should be at the top of the list and investigated. In cases like child-on-child murder, yes.

I didn't say homicide wasn't bad. I think almost all of us (barring the odd psychopath or two) would agree that

unnecessary, unlawful killing of fellow humans usually = bad thing


You've created a straw man to argue against.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 04:51 PM
Parents should be held responsible for the children.

Why should someone get to choose to have children and the raise them like heathens and unleash them on society with no repercussion.

**** that, people need to be held accountable for their choices and actions.

:hmmm:

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 05:06 PM
I didn't say homicide wasn't bad. I think almost all of us (barring the odd psychopath or two) would agree that

unnecessary, unlawful killing of fellow humans usually = bad thing


You've created a straw man to argue against.

nope, I've proven my argument, it's you who have yet to give one cogent reason against my proposal.

I've also very clearly stated that if eveyone just walked away and said "it's really no one's fault" I'd be ok with that. But again, that's not the society we live in. Someone will get blamed.

Just Passin' By
01-15-2014, 05:12 PM
nope, I've proven my argument, it's you who have yet to give one cogent reason against my proposal.

I've also very clearly stated that if eveyone just walked away and said "it's really no one's fault" I'd be ok with that. But again, that's not the society we live in. Someone will get blamed.

You haven't proven your argument. Your argument was nothing but "Homicide is worse than beating up a kid, so the parents should be punished. Because horrific.". I actually agree with you on the other stuff. We, as a society, need to accept that sometimes bad shit happens instead of always looking for new ways to punish and take away freedoms.

Tombstone RJ
01-15-2014, 05:14 PM
You haven't proven your argument. Your argument was nothing but "Homicide is worse than beating up a kid, so the parents should be punished.". I actually agree with you on the other stuff. We, as a society, need to accept that sometimes bad shit happens instead of always looking for new ways to punish and take away freedoms.

so, blame no one? Great! we agree then!

Demonpenz
01-15-2014, 05:26 PM
people were cheering when I saw Lone Survivor...I was like...yep this is the kind of shit that makes kids think killing is cool.

Katipan
01-15-2014, 05:38 PM
people were cheering when I saw Lone Survivor...I was like...yep this is the kind of shit that makes kids think killing is cool.

My 11 year old daughter really likes playing Call of Duty. (My fault) She mostly plays online but occasionally delves into the campaign when I'm with her. It's certainly sparked conversations I'm not sure either of us expected. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't actively watch for signs that she's not quite absorbing the spirit of the game correctly.

Not something my parents could confess to doing when I was playing shooter games growing up. And not something I thought I'd have to do when I popped her out.

Chief Roundup
01-15-2014, 06:38 PM
Well nothing else is based on it's dependent on the child, we have laws regarding everything based on age.

At what point can you get a deer tag, I think it's what 15 or 16?

If you aren't old enough to hunt you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.

I'm sorry 10 or 12 is to young for me.

Most state governments have separate dates for youth hunts. Most states allow this as long as the child is between 9 and 12 years of age and is accompanied by a licensed adult. There are some states that all children as young as 5 to participate in their youth hunting seasons.