Mizzou Football Could be IN HUGE TROUBLE

[gblowfish]

Story breaking today on ESPN about Mizzou NOT reporting an alleged rape of a girl on the swim team by a Mizzou football player. The girl committed suicide. The story is very long and involved, this is just breaking today.

Looks really ugly and really serious.

Story is here:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10323102/university-missouri-officials-did-not-pursue-rape-case-lines-investigation-finds

[The Franchise]

Q

[DMAC]

These are just alleqations

[The Franchise]

Although the other thread was titled fucking horribly.

[Scorp]

If only she would of stayed in the water...... hmmmmm?

[duncan_idaho]

3rd or 4th thread on this?

Read the AD response via the letters sent by Chad Moller. You have to get on Twitter to get to one of them.

[CrazyPhuD]

Really the only the part about this that's surprising is that it wasn't a member of the men's swim team.

But if this is accurate it's not just 'allegations'....

A friend said he has seen a videotape of the alleged incident that corroborates the basics of what she told medical officials, and that three Missouri football players actually were involved.

[duncan_idaho]

Really the only the part about this that's surprising is that it wasn't a member of the men's swim team.

But if this is accurate it's not just 'allegations'....

That friend also says he can't find the copy of the tape and that one of his family members must have lost it or something.

[Bowser]

That friend also says he can't find the copy of the tape and that one of his family members must have lost it or something.

Was that friend Prison Bitch, by chance?

[SPchief]

That friend also says he can't find the copy of the tape and that one of his family members must have lost it or something.
Click the link in here:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10391447&postcount=2467


Good insight on MU's perspective

[SPchief]

That's Duncan's link BTW

[In58men]

I just love a good ol' wholesome rape thread.

[Nickel D]

Allegedly, this all started innocently enough when the football player volunteered to show the swimmer his form and technique of the breast stroke.

[duncan_idaho]

Complete thoughts on this (posted in the Missouri repository):

Yeah, I'm not sure what ESPN seems to feel should have been done here.

1) Health care professionals should NOT have reported it to anyone unless specifically requested to do so by the victim. That's basic HIPPA (and something you can find re: HIPPA with a five minute stint on Google). It doesn't matter that those health care professionals worked for MU Hospital and Clinics. Just because it is a university hospital does not mean it is treated any differently than if she had seen folks at a non-affiliated hospital. Medical privacy laws are medical privacy laws.

There seems to be an insinuation in the article that because the doctor who saw her works at an MU hospital, that doctor should have reported the rape allegations to the university administration as soon as it happened. That is an absurd insinuation. Title IX does not override a patient's right to privacy.

2) The administration has reached out to the parents about their wishes regarding an investigation. This is appropriate, in my opinion.

3) The main/most important connection to the athletic department is a vague diary entry in which she says she told Meghan Anderson she was raped. It doesn't say anything more about the circumstances of that or that she indicated it was another athlete that did it. It even mentions that she was glad Anderson didn't ask any questions about it. Anderson says she doesn't remember being told Menu Courey had been raped,

Is Meghan Anderson telling the truth? Only she will ever actually know that, beyond a shadow of doubt. But this is the only point at which Missouri would have been obligated and authorized to begin an investigation while she still lived.

Now, if it comes out that Woodland told the coaching staff about this -
or that one of his teammates told the coaching staff about this - that's
a problem. I suspect if that was the case, we would have read about it
today.

Here's the ultimate thing: Rape might be something that happens on college campuses. It's a terrible thing and I know people who have been affected by it. People close to me and important to me. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask the Athletic Department to try to find a way to be BETTER. To do more to prevent it and especially do more to ensure its student athletes are avoiding these types of situations and actions That is a reasonable expectation.

I don't think the AD is in the wrong here, based on what I currently know, in its handling of this situation. It didn't know about the allegations until after the fact, and it has not received a response in its query of the parents about their wishes in this case.

But it certainly needs to take a look at what they're doing and make sure the reforms enacted over the past few years in response to the problems with the tutor program and even Mike Dixon go far enough to address this issue."

[duncan_idaho]

One more thing:

Rolandis Woodland says Sasha Menu Courey was his best friend. He had physical evidence that she was gang raped by at least 3 men.

His best friend kills herself while he has this in his possession. You're telling me that you wouldn't reveal what had happened to your best friend in that case?

I can't comprehend that. If he had the tape and was angry, as a best friend would be, how could he EVER let it be misplaced? I just don't get it.

If that had been the case with my friend - she had hard evidence, and she killed herself because of issues with the rape - I would have NEVER been able to sit on it.

NEVER.

[Prison Bitch]

Was that friend Prison Bitch, by chance?

Saul just declared the person to be a liar. You know, based solely on his own estimation.

[TribalElder]

http://i.imgur.com/sNt12P2.jpg

[Pepe Silvia]

http://i.imgur.com/sNt12P2.jpg

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[In58men]

http://i.imgur.com/sNt12P2.jpg

Alex Smiths autobiography book he wrote.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

I thought Michael Dixon played basketball

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Can we rule out Michael Sam?

LOL GAY JOKES!

[Simply Red]

ask me anything

[confused]

DGB

[Phobia]

One more thing:

Rolandis Woodland says Sasha Menu Courey was his best friend. He had physical evidence that she was gang raped by at least 3 men.

His best friend kills herself while he has this in his possession. You're telling me that you wouldn't reveal what had happened to your best friend in that case?

I can't comprehend that. If he had the tape and was angry, as a best friend would be, how could he EVER let it be misplaced? I just don't get it.

If that had been the case with my friend - she had hard evidence, and she killed herself because of issues with the rape - I would have NEVER been able to sit on it.

NEVER.

I think what you're assuming here is that all people behave rationally. They do not. In fact, I just learned a tough lesson myself from a childhood friend who accused me of accusing her of stalking based on a joke I posted on facebook. She confronted me about the whole thing. Typed about 10,000 words then dumped and blocked me on facebook. I would suggest she has some paranoid delusion going on. Very, very strange things happen in the minds of otherwise seemingly normal people.

[bandwagonjumper]

Football players being football players.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd like to get SNR's opinion on this.

[WhawhaWhat]

Crazy story. Someone should post a link on the front page about this.

[Stanley Nickels]

I have little hope for OTL giving much credence to Chad Moller's response. It will be mentioned only as far as their journalistic duty requires, but make no mistake: this will be a tabloid piece. "Organizational coverup of a rape leads to student suicide" plays far better than "An ESPN producer's fundamental misunderstanding of privacy laws and her desire to report a patently untrue and salacious storyline"

[kevonm]

Complete thoughts on this (posted in the Missouri repository):

Yeah, I'm not sure what ESPN seems to feel should have been done here.

1) Health care professionals should NOT have reported it to anyone unless specifically requested to do so by the victim. That's basic HIPPA (and something you can find re: HIPPA with a five minute stint on Google). It doesn't matter that those health care professionals worked for MU Hospital and Clinics. Just because it is a university hospital does not mean it is treated any differently than if she had seen folks at a non-affiliated hospital. Medical privacy laws are medical privacy laws.

There seems to be an insinuation in the article that because the doctor who saw her works at an MU hospital, that doctor should have reported the rape allegations to the university administration as soon as it happened. That is an absurd insinuation. Title IX does not override a patient's right to privacy.

2) The administration has reached out to the parents about their wishes regarding an investigation. This is appropriate, in my opinion.

3) The main/most important connection to the athletic department is a vague diary entry in which she says she told Meghan Anderson she was raped. It doesn't say anything more about the circumstances of that or that she indicated it was another athlete that did it. It even mentions that she was glad Anderson didn't ask any questions about it. Anderson says she doesn't remember being told Menu Courey had been raped,

Is Meghan Anderson telling the truth? Only she will ever actually know that, beyond a shadow of doubt. But this is the only point at which Missouri would have been obligated and authorized to begin an investigation while she still lived.

Now, if it comes out that Woodland told the coaching staff about this -
or that one of his teammates told the coaching staff about this - that's
a problem. I suspect if that was the case, we would have read about it
today.

Here's the ultimate thing: Rape might be something that happens on college campuses. It's a terrible thing and I know people who have been affected by it. People close to me and important to me. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask the Athletic Department to try to find a way to be BETTER. To do more to prevent it and especially do more to ensure its student athletes are avoiding these types of situations and actions That is a reasonable expectation.

I don't think the AD is in the wrong here, based on what I currently know, in its handling of this situation. It didn't know about the allegations until after the fact, and it has not received a response in its query of the parents about their wishes in this case.

But it certainly needs to take a look at what they're doing and make sure the reforms enacted over the past few years in response to the problems with the tutor program and even Mike Dixon go far enough to address this issue."
FYI some states require reporting by medical professionals. Missouri is not one of them.

[duncan_idaho]

I think what you're assuming here is that all people behave rationally. They do not. In fact, I just learned a tough lesson myself from a childhood friend who accused me of accusing her of stalking based on a joke I posted on facebook. She confronted me about the whole thing. Typed about 10,000 words then dumped and blocked me on facebook. I would suggest she has some paranoid delusion going on. Very, very strange things happen in the minds of otherwise seemingly normal people.

Oh, I get that not everyone is a rational actor and responses are unreliable. I just can't understand, as someone who has been the friend, that response.

[duncan_idaho]

FYI some states require reporting by medical professionals. Missouri is not one of them.

There are exceptions in place, typically in situations in which the victim can't consent (children, mentally handicapped) or in some states, in domestic violence situations.

I'm not aware of any state's that allow/require reporting by medical professionals when an adult is treated for sexual assault, but I"m really only extremely familiar with those regulations in Missouri, Kansas and California (work stuff).

[J Diddy]

Oh, I get that not everyone is a rational actor and responses are unreliable. I just can't understand, as someone who has been the friend, that response.

Maybe he wants them out of jail so he can exact revenge Charles Bronson style.

[kevonm]

There are exceptions in place, typically in situations in which the victim can't consent (children, mentally handicapped) or in some states, in domestic violence situations.

I'm not aware of any state's that allow/require reporting by medical professionals when an adult is treated for sexual assault, but I"m really only extremely familiar with those regulations in Missouri, Kansas and California (work stuff).

I believe California does. Penal code 11160. But I am not on the legal side, I am medical.

[KChiefs1]

A couple of items that make this story so complex, at least things that stuck out to me:

1. Her previous suicide attempt when she was 16 years old. Seems like she was pre-wired to not handle relationship issues very well. That doesn't excuse any sexual assault that may have occurred, so don't misunderstand my point here. It does, however, point to an individual who hits the extremes in relationships, sexual or otherwise it appears. That just adds a layer to the story.

2. There isn't any report from review of the medical records, which appear to be detailed and extensive, that her medical providers and therapists strongly encouraged her to report her allegations as a crime. This makes me wonder if those individuals had item 1 above in mind as well as they treated her. The reporter mentions this as a burning question in the case, could those care providers have encouraged her more to do so, but that's the extent to which he goes into it. This is a key factor in the story IYAM. Very strange.

3. The video tape. Woodland described himself as distraught and having lost his best friend when she killed herself, and very angry at his teammates who he believed led her down this path starting with the assault. Two part question here that I'm asking myself, how could he have let that prime piece of evidence just disappear and why would any of his family members have access to the tape without him being present? I'm specifically referring to Woodland's comment that the tape was missing and he believes, "one of his family members must have misplaced it." It's evidence of a potential major crime taking place that resulted later in the death of a young woman. Misplaced it? This wasn't a random VHS porn tape floating around the house. It was a big deal and really angered him. He said so himself. Again, not placing blame here or making any accusations, but just freaking weird this key item has gone missing. Last thing on this topic is there is no mention in the story of OTL trying to contact Sasha's friend who had the original recording; the one that sent Woodland his copy of it. How could the reporter not have followed up on that after Woodland said he no longer had it? At a minimum, if the reporter did attempt to contact that other person and either couldn't reach her or she stated she no longer had a copy either, he should have said so in his story IMO. This is the most troublesome thing for me because it would likely prove or disprove if an assault actually occurred. He said, she said is a tough case even without the "she" being deceased. The tape is what's needed, and it doesn't appear as if it's going to surface.

[CrazyPhuD]

Football players being football players.

Aldon Smith WAS still a tiger then....

[buddha]

One more thing:

Rolandis Woodland says Sasha Menu Courey was his best friend. He had physical evidence that she was gang raped by at least 3 men.

His best friend kills herself while he has this in his possession. You're telling me that you wouldn't reveal what had happened to your best friend in that case?

I can't comprehend that. If he had the tape and was angry, as a best friend would be, how could he EVER let it be misplaced? I just don't get it.

If that had been the case with my friend - she had hard evidence, and she killed herself because of issues with the rape - I would have NEVER been able to sit on it.

NEVER.

Woodland had a chip on his shoulder against MU his entire time in Columbia. He was supposed to be an all-everything receiver, but he couldn't catch anything. Receivers who can't "receive" don't play a lot.

If he had evidence and DIDN'T do anything with it...how much of this falls on HIS shoulders?

If he is lying about the tape and it never really existed, would it surprise anybody who knows him at all?

This is a tragic situation...however, Chad Moeller's letter(s) to OTL are much more persuasive than the OTL clip.

[buddha]

A couple of items that make this story so complex, at least things that stuck out to me:

1. Her previous suicide attempt when she was 16 years old. Seems like she was pre-wired to not handle relationship issues very well. That doesn't excuse any sexual assault that may have occurred, so don't misunderstand my point here. It does, however, point to an individual who hits the extremes in relationships, sexual or otherwise it appears. That just adds a layer to the story.

2. There isn't any report from review of the medical records, which appear to be detailed and extensive, that her medical providers and therapists strongly encouraged her to report her allegations as a crime. This makes me wonder if those individuals had item 1 above in mind as well as they treated her. The reporter mentions this as a burning question in the case, could those care providers have encouraged her more to do so, but that's the extent to which he goes into it. This is a key factor in the story IYAM. Very strange.

3. The video tape. Woodland described himself as distraught and having lost his best friend when she killed herself, and very angry at his teammates who he believed led her down this path starting with the assault. Two part question here that I'm asking myself, how could he have let that prime piece of evidence just disappear and why would any of his family members have access to the tape without him being present? I'm specifically referring to Woodland's comment that the tape was missing and he believes, "one of his family members must have misplaced it." It's evidence of a potential major crime taking place that resulted later in the death of a young woman. Misplaced it? This wasn't a random VHS porn tape floating around the house. It was a big deal and really angered him. He said so himself. Again, not placing blame here or making any accusations, but just freaking weird this key item has gone missing. Last thing on this topic is there is no mention in the story of OTL trying to contact Sasha's friend who had the original recording; the one that sent Woodland his copy of it. How could the reporter not have followed up on that after Woodland said he no longer had it? At a minimum, if the reporter did attempt to contact that other person and either couldn't reach her or she stated she no longer had a copy either, he should have said so in his story IMO. This is the most troublesome thing for me because it would likely prove or disprove if an assault actually occurred. He said, she said is a tough case even without the "she" being deceased. The tape is what's needed, and it doesn't appear as if it's going to surface.

Great points, one and all. Well thought out post. Woodland is at fault here one way or the other. Either he covered up a horrific event, or he is perpetuating a fabrication. His whole, "Now where did I put that tape down?" act is completely unbelievable.

Maybe Demetrius Johnson can help him find the tape?

[BryanBusby]

Complete thoughts on this (posted in the Missouri repository):

Yeah, I'm not sure what ESPN seems to feel should have been done here.

1) Health care professionals should NOT have reported it to anyone unless specifically requested to do so by the victim. That's basic HIPPA (and something you can find re: HIPPA with a five minute stint on Google). It doesn't matter that those health care professionals worked for MU Hospital and Clinics. Just because it is a university hospital does not mean it is treated any differently than if she had seen folks at a non-affiliated hospital. Medical privacy laws are medical privacy laws.

There seems to be an insinuation in the article that because the doctor who saw her works at an MU hospital, that doctor should have reported the rape allegations to the university administration as soon as it happened. That is an absurd insinuation. Title IX does not override a patient's right to privacy.

2) The administration has reached out to the parents about their wishes regarding an investigation. This is appropriate, in my opinion.

3) The main/most important connection to the athletic department is a vague diary entry in which she says she told Meghan Anderson she was raped. It doesn't say anything more about the circumstances of that or that she indicated it was another athlete that did it. It even mentions that she was glad Anderson didn't ask any questions about it. Anderson says she doesn't remember being told Menu Courey had been raped,

Is Meghan Anderson telling the truth? Only she will ever actually know that, beyond a shadow of doubt. But this is the only point at which Missouri would have been obligated and authorized to begin an investigation while she still lived.

Now, if it comes out that Woodland told the coaching staff about this -
or that one of his teammates told the coaching staff about this - that's
a problem. I suspect if that was the case, we would have read about it
today.

Here's the ultimate thing: Rape might be something that happens on college campuses. It's a terrible thing and I know people who have been affected by it. People close to me and important to me. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ask the Athletic Department to try to find a way to be BETTER. To do more to prevent it and especially do more to ensure its student athletes are avoiding these types of situations and actions That is a reasonable expectation.

I don't think the AD is in the wrong here, based on what I currently know, in its handling of this situation. It didn't know about the allegations until after the fact, and it has not received a response in its query of the parents about their wishes in this case.

But it certainly needs to take a look at what they're doing and make sure the reforms enacted over the past few years in response to the problems with the tutor program and even Mike Dixon go far enough to address this issue."
The issue here isn't the MU medical staff.

The University of Missouri did not investigate or tell law enforcement officials about an alleged rape, possibly by one or more members of its football team, despite administrators finding out about the alleged 2010 incident more than a year ago, an "Outside the Lines" investigation has found.

In the ensuing months, a campus nurse, two doctors and, according to her journal, an athletic department administrator also learned of her claim that she had been assaulted.

The thing is people outside of the MU medical staff apparently were told about the rape and did not investigate it. If true, that's a huge fucking problem and yeah this should of absolutely been investigated. It doesn't matter if the victim appeared to be mentally unstable, the AD feels really bad about it or some friend who may or may not have a tape.

These people are obligated to protect their students and they failed to do so. If this is actually the case, they should be prosecuted.

(Now that's assuming what ESPN reported is actual fact. With ESPN, who the fuck knows though.)

[chiefzilla1501]

After what happened in Miami I think the ncaa made it pretty clear that they are a joke. This is a terrible story and mizzou will get away with it. Just like Auburn did. Just like Miami did. Just like Oregon did. Just like Oklahoma state did.

[duncan_idaho]

The issue here isn't the MU medical staff.





The thing is people outside of the MU medical staff apparently were told about the rape and did not investigate it. If true, that's a huge ****ing problem and yeah this should of absolutely been investigated. It doesn't matter if the victim appeared to be mentally unstable, the AD feels really bad about it or some friend who may or may not have a tape.

These people are obligated to protect their students and they failed to do so. If this is actually the case, they should be prosecuted.

(Now that's assuming what ESPN reported is actual fact. With ESPN, who the **** knows though.)

Meghan Anderson disputes the diary entry in which Menu Courey said she told Anderson she was raped. That's the only point at which the Missouri AD or admin would have learned of the rape before the suicide, as the only other people she told were friends who didn't come forward or medical professionals who were legally unable to say anything.

I have a good friend who worked with Anderson a lot before she left the Missouri AD for a promotion at another job (he is an advisor at Mizzou who works with AD frequently). He is adamant that Anderson would have acted had she been told Menu Courey was raped and raped by a football player.

I think their handling of things regarding an investigation after the tragic death of Menu Courey makes sense, but I can understand some criticism of that, I guess. Without clearance from the parents to access Sasha's medical records and without a firm response from them asking to move forward with an investigation, they felt it was not appropriate to move forward.

[A Salt Weapon]

Need pictures of the girl in order to decide guilt.

[In58men]

Need pictures of the girl in order to decide guilt.

Click the link lazy fuck

[DJJasonp]

A couple of items that make this story so complex, at least things that stuck out to me:


3. The video tape. Woodland described himself as distraught and having lost his best friend when she killed herself, and very angry at his teammates who he believed led her down this path starting with the assault. Two part question here that I'm asking myself, how could he have let that prime piece of evidence just disappear and why would any of his family members have access to the tape without him being present? .

If the tape actually exists, and Woodland is such the friend he claims he was, you would have to think that the tape may in some way make Woodland look to be complicit (whether by actions, or by no action to prevent).

I cant see any other reason why he wouldnt bring the tape forward (unless he was getting threats, etc. from those involved).

[13and3]

Is it possible that she had consenting sex with the football team, only later to be stricken with self loathing and regret? She tried suicide before right? Sometimes it is easier to blame others instead of facing your own demons.

[Reaper16]

Is it possible that she had consenting sex with the football team, only later to be stricken with self loathing and regret? She tried suicide before right? Sometimes it is easier to blame others instead of facing your own demons.

So Woodland is lying about what he says the tape showed?

[WhawhaWhat]

So Woodland is lying about what he says the tape showed?

Nobody really knows. Let's convict anyway though.

[alnorth]

Nobody really knows. Let's convict anyway though.

This isn't a courtroom, its an internet message board, and given what we know, it is not reasonable at all to believe this was consensual.

[wazu]

I think what you're assuming here is that all people behave rationally. They do not. In fact, I just learned a tough lesson myself from a childhood friend who accused me of accusing her of stalking based on a joke I posted on facebook. She confronted me about the whole thing. Typed about 10,000 words then dumped and blocked me on facebook. I would suggest she has some paranoid delusion going on. Very, very strange things happen in the minds of otherwise seemingly normal people.

Wow, that's some grade A paranoia. To the point I would worry that she is losing it for real and could be in danger.

[Prison Bitch]

I have little hope for OTL giving much credence to Chad Moller's response. It will be mentioned only as far as their journalistic duty requires, but make no mistake: this will be a tabloid piece. "Organizational coverup of a rape leads to student suicide" plays far better than "An ESPN producer's fundamental misunderstanding of privacy laws and her desire to report a patently untrue and salacious storyline"

Untrue? How would you determine that? Just because.

[Stanley Nickels]

Untrue? How would you determine that? Just because.

I'm disputing ESPN's story of an administrative coverup, not Sasha's story.

[BigRock]

I'm disputing ESPN's story of an administrative coverup, not Sasha's story.

I don't see where they're claiming a cover-up led to the girl's suicide. At best, it seems she might have told one person (other than medical staff) about it. That's pretty far from a cover-up when you can't even prove if one person knew.

The bigger thing seems to be that the school would have known about the rape alegation after her death from a newspaper article, but never looked into it. Even though apparently they're supposed to, I guess.

And then there's some other random weirdness, like having her sign her unenrollment papers while she's still in the hospital locked down on suicide watch. Probably could have waited another day or two on that.

That the woman involved in that incident is the same woman denying she was told about the rape is interesting, though.

[baitism]

The dog ate his tape? Give me a break. If that is your best friend... A - you don't lose that tape. B - You would go straight to the authorities. Sounds like he was as good off the field as on.

[Prison Bitch]

Having read the story and the response, I'm no closer to having an opinion. Can't see how anyone would conclude anything here. Even if it was scandalous it would involve so few people that the University really has no reason to comment further. That said our society loves reading and commenting on these type of stories.