Are the 49ers going to extend Kaepernick?

[FRCDFED]

Colin Kaepernick – Is it essential to sign him now?

Posted on January 27, 2014 at 2:06 am by Kevin Lynch in Quarterbacks

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/01/27/colin-kaepernick-is-it-essential-to-sign-him-now/

Colin Kaepernick could score big this off-season (Getty images).
49ers coach Jim Harbaugh wants to win in free agency and “fight” for his players. It’s a wonderful notion, and a laudable sentiment, but ultimately an empty pursuit. Signing players and setting the roster is not up to Harbaugh, that’s general manager Trent Baalke’s job along with team president Paraag Marathe.

Harbaugh can be a cheerleader and a recruiter and convince potential free agents to take less in order to keep the team together and go for another run at the Super Bowl. If that’s Harbaugh’s role, then he better start rolling with his starting quarterback.

Colin Kaepernick is the team’s biggest ticket item, not only in terms of money, but also in terms of setting the team’s direction. Sign Kaepernick and other free agents are more likely to stay, knowing the future is bright due to Kaepernick’s fast but spindly legs and that heavily tattooed and undeniably powerful right arm.

But what will it take? Franchise quarterbacks are going for about $18 million per minimum these days, and that’s where it should start since it’s debatable that Kaepernick IS a franchise quarterback. So $18 million a season for 5 years and the 49ers are looking at a $80 million deal, with $30 million to $40 million guaranteed.

That’s enough for the party pad in Tahoe, the palatial spread in Saratoga and enough cheese to support Kaepernick’s sneaker collection habit and make him the Imelda Marcos of high tops.

However, such a deal could put a serious crimp in the 49ers ability to sign other players such as linebacker Aldon Smith, guard Mike Iupati, safety Donte Whitner, wide receivers Michael Crabtree and Anquan Boldin and cornerbacks Tarell Brown and Carlos Rogers.

Does Kaep want to ruin the team’s cap?

Here’s a solution. Kaepernick still has one year left on his rookie deal that pays him just over a million. So the 49ers could eliminate that final year and get Kaepernick the big money sooner – at a discount of course.

So instead of $18 million for five in 2015, how about $15 million for five in 2014? Kaepernick gets to be Imelda Marcos one year early and the deal is essentially the same because the woefully underpaid 2014 season is wiped out.

Also Kaepernick’s lighter deal would allow the 49ers to possibly sign Crabtree and Boldin among others. And, like all contracts of this magnitude, the agent will dress up the deal, stretch it out to seven years and pack it with Monopoly money at the end of the contract that Kaepernick will never see.

So it will be announced as say a seven-year, $130 million deal just so it can be more than what Bears quarterback Jay Cutler received last season (seven-years, $126 million).

The 49ers like deals like this. They signed Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman while all of them had years left on their deals.

Kaepernick should like it too. As last year proved, Kaepernick’s passing game is only as good as his receivers, and without them, Kaepernick could become something nobody wants. The overpaid underachiever in the land of Joe Montana, which could lead to mass firings and wide spread twitter pestilence. And who would want that?
Twitter: @klynch49
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I for one do not believe that Kaep is nearly as good of a QB as A. Smith. Call it homerism or whatever you want but Smith is just plain better. So Kaep can outrun Smith in a 40 yard dash you say? Good luck with that! If they are foolish enough to sign him to a big pay day then they will be unable to sign the defensive players that really carry that team.

[Eleazar]

It's unfortunate for them that he hasn't matured and they have to make a decision now about him. They need one more year to see if he can learn to play the QB position.

[FRCDFED]

It's more unfortunate for them that they got the raw end by trading off the better of the two QB's.

[Eleazar]

It's more unfortunate for them that they got the raw end by trading off the better of the two QB's.

Their fan base deserves this, for blaming all the organization's problems on Alex Smith.

(and for sending all their trolls over here)

[Beef Supreme]

I hope he gets a pile of money. Then the 9'ers will have to shuffle the roster to pay for it.

[Saul Good]

I'll trade them Smith for Kaepernick.

[Eleazar]

I'll trade them Smith for Kaepernick.

Smith was really frustrating me by the end of the year, but I don't think we can let him go when the curpboard at CB is so bare.

[The Franchise]

Smith was really frustrating me by the end of the year, but I don't think we can let him go when the curpboard at CB is so bare.

lolwut?

[O.city]

Until he learns the nuances of playing Qb from the pocket consistently, I wouldn't really be upbeat about giving a glorified RB with a great arm 18 million dollars per year.

[T-Town]

lolwut?

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nfl/players/full/12430.png&w=350&h=254

Cochise made a funny

[Mav]

Pay him. Then the chiefs can sign Aldon Smith.

[notorious]

Harbaugh and SF might let him go.


It's not like Kap is God's gift to football.

[Direckshun]

Uh, yeah. They'll sign him.

If they're smart, they throw him a $90m deal and lock him up for years and sacrifice whatever they have to to keep him.

He is their most important piece. Not Aldon Smith, not Justin Smith, not Frank Gore. Him.

[Eleazar]

Harbaugh and SF might let him go.

It's not like Kap is God's gift to football.

This will probably be the decision that eventually costs Harbaugh and Baalke their jobs, or results in them being there for 10 or 15 years

It won't happen immediately, but if they get this wrong - like extending Kaepernick for big money and then watching him flounder if the talent around him deteriorates, or not extending him and then missing on the next QB - that will drag the team down and eventually get them run out of town.

If they are really as great as people think, they should be able to make the aggressive play and cut bait on him, identify a QB, and successfully get a passer in there.

It won't be easy. For a team that has been to 3 straight conference championship games, it's an unenviable position

[FRCDFED]

Uh, yeah. They'll sign him.

If they're smart, they throw him a $90m deal and lock him up for years and sacrifice whatever they have to to keep him.

He is their most important piece. Not Aldon Smith, not Justin Smith, not Frank Gore. Him.

:spock: Not sure if serious. His importance at the moment is only measured by the fact that they have nobody (with passing skills) waiting to take over if they let him go. Kaep cannot pass from the pocket.

[Eleazar]

Uh, yeah. They'll sign him.

If they're smart, they throw him a $90m deal and lock him up for years and sacrifice whatever they have to to keep him.

He is their most important piece. Not Aldon Smith, not Justin Smith, not Frank Gore. Him.

ROFL

[notorious]

:spock: Not sure if serious. His importance at the moment is only measured by the fact that they have nobody (with passing skills) waiting to take over if they let him go. Kaep cannot pass from the pocket.

Colt McCoy is "nobody"?!

[Direckshun]

They will absolutely never cut Kaep. Good god you guys are nuts.

They are going to sign him to crazy money. You have to.

[Direckshun]

:spock: Not sure if serious. His importance at the moment is only measured by the fact that they have nobody (with passing skills) waiting to take over if they let him go. Kaep cannot pass from the pocket.

Here's what Kaep can do: he can win a Super Bowl.

Just like he's come close to doing for two years now.

You sign him for $90m and you don't look back.

[notorious]

Harbaugh is a crazy mother fucker.


The norm might not happen.

[Eleazar]

Here's what Kaep can do: he can win a Super Bowl.


Nope. You have to be a QB to do that.

[Direckshun]

Nope. You have to be a QB to do that.

And yet, there they were... and almost were this year.

[FRCDFED]

Until he learns the nuances of playing Qb from the pocket consistently, I wouldn't really be upbeat about giving a glorified RB with a great arm 18 million dollars per year.

This. It would be an example of what is wrong with the NFL if they give him 18 mil per season without actually proving anything on the field other than he can take off running when he can't read the defense.

Also don't give me the "thats the going rate" for a starting QB in the NFL. I'm not buying that mantra just because Flacco got lucky. Flacco should give A. Bolden some of that money since he had a stellar contract year when they won the SB.

[laughsatyou907]

Here's what Kaep can do: he can win a Super Bowl.

Just like he's come close to doing for two years now.

You sign him for $90m and you don't look back.

He can't, and now they have to start losing pieces on the defense that carried them to 3 NFCCG's and Super Bowl making their window even shorter. They also are going to see a lot of turnover on offense this season, Gore is not likely coming back, and Vernon Davis is getting paid too much for his production. Crabtree is overrated, Boldin is a FA, and everyone else of the offense was a glorified blocker.

This teams got problems, but they have a shit load of draft picks. .

[Jimmya]

Talking smack on a team that made it to the nfc championship game ... now that's funny.

[petegz28]

Here's what Kaep can do: he can win a Super Bowl.

Just like he's come close to doing for two years now.

You sign him for $90m and you don't look back.

Do you watch football at all?

1. He came close to winning a Super Bowl in a season where Smith played 9 of the 16 regular season games....oh, and he didn't win

2. Frank Gore carries that offense. PERIOD!

3. The defense carries that entire team. PERIOD!

[OldSchool]

If they pay Kaep all of that money, they're going to screw the franchise over for years. As stated already, Kaep is a glorified RB who can throw. He has no feel for the passing game and severely limits the 49ers offense because of this. He's the type of QB who has to see his WRs open before throwing the ball to them; that's why the vast majority of his passes are late and are almost always bullets. He has one of the most inconsistent, if not the most inconsistent, touch passes in the NFL. 3 years in the same offense and there is still little growth in the 49ers passing game despite a pretty good collection of weapons to throw to. What happens when Kaep doesn't have an Elite defense, running game, and OL to depend on?

[Jakemall]

If they pay Kaep all of that money, they're going to screw the franchise over for years. As stated already, Kaep is a glorified RB who can throw. He has no feel for the passing game and severely limits the 49ers offense because of this. He's the type of QB who has to see his WRs open before throwing the ball to them; that's why the vast majority of his passes are late and are almost always bullets. He has one of the most inconsistent, if not the most inconsistent, touch passes in the NFL. 3 years in the same offense and there is still little growth in the 49ers passing game despite a pretty good collection of weapons to throw to. What happens when Kaep doesn't have an Elite defense, running game, and OL to depend on?

You're on the wrong forum for trolling Kaepernick.

[greatgooglymoogly]

This will probably be the decision that eventually costs Harbaugh and Baalke their jobs, or results in them being there for 10 or 15 years

I think Harbaugh will have a very attractive out available to him within the next 12 months. Whether he takes it is up to him, and I have no idea if he would consider, but Michigan will throw out an absurd offer to prove a point.

[houstonwhodat]

Fuck Englebert Humperdink.

[BossChief]

I think they need to use their leverage to push back negotiations till mid season next year.

He needs to show growth as a pocket passer to earn that deal, IMO. I'm not talking going from a one read guy to Drew Brees, but he needs to show growth in going through his progressions, using his mobility to extend plays and to learn to use his check downs when nothing is open.

They can let him play his contract out and franchise him in 2015 and let it play out.

That's a total of about 17.5 million over the next 2 years.

I'd take the same stance with Alex Smith, tbh. He needs to show growth and consistency in the system before he is locked up to a deal that would prohibit us from retaining other players that help us win games.

[Jimmya]

Agree with Boss 100%

[Eleazar]

What happens when Kaep doesn't have an elite defense, running game, receivers, tight end, and OL to depend on?

FYP

[OldSchool]

FYP

Should have just switched that to Boldin.

[Direckshun]

You want goodwill with your organization.

If a guy is balling for you, you pay him. You don't maximize leverage to minimize the hit he makes on your payroll. That borders on being disrespect, and that's why every year, most of the NFL tries to avoid franchise tags. You want players to feel appreciated.

I agree you negotiate with him but you do it now, you don't do it in the heat of a season and by threatening the franchise tag.

[Direckshun]

You have to keep in mind, Kaep really has more than enough leverage.

If he doesn't suit up, who the fuck plays for the 49ers.

Find me the QB the 49ers will land. And then we'll talk.

[BossChief]

You have to keep in mind, Kaep really has more than enough leverage.

If he doesn't suit up, who the **** plays for the 49ers.

Find me the QB the 49ers will land. And then we'll talk.

Giving a 1 read quarterback Drew Brees type money can dismantle a team just as fast.

[Eleazar]

You have to keep in mind, Kaep really has more than enough leverage.

If he doesn't suit up, who the **** plays for the 49ers.

Find me the QB the 49ers will land. And then we'll talk.

Maybe someone who doesn't lead the #30 passing attack in the league this year despite having elite talent at every position, or fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the 4th quarter against Seattle? A QB who's an actual QB?

[BossChief]

Maybe someone who doesn't lead the #30 passing attack in the league this year despite having elite talent at every position, or fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the 4th quarter against Seattle? A QB who's an actual QB?

SF didn't have "elite talent at every position" anymore than Alex Smith did.

That's just a silly/ignorant comment.

[FRCDFED]

In order to keep most of the pieces in place to even give him a shot to win you have to force him to play out his contract. Extend him now and others will be shown the door.

Keep it together to make one more run before paying out. Maybe he'll actually show growth in a contract year. I doubt it though. The kids head just isn't all there.

[salame]

SF has a pretty average offense

[FRCDFED]

SF has a pretty pedestrian offense

FYP

[OldSchool]

SF has a pretty average offense

The positions they are considered great at is TE, OL, and RB. The WR core is just above average with Boldin.

[Eleazar]

SF has a pretty average offense

They probably have the best offensive line in the league. Crabtree and Boldin are among the best tandems in the league at WR. They have the league's most productive tight end. Gore is a top 10 back and they were #3 in the league in rushing this season.

Regardless of what anyone wants to say, Kaepernick is probably never again going to play around as much talent as he has during this 'window'.

[salame]

I don't think Frank Gore is GREAT. I also think the WR are just average Boldin is just average at this point. TE is elite and OL is good at run blocking but they aren't anything more than an average offense,

[Snapplez]

Nope. You have to be a QB to do that.

When are we getting ours?

[Mav]

SF didn't have "elite talent at every position" anymore than Alex Smith did.

That's just a silly/ignorant comment.

What? LOL. Are you serious? Anquan Boldin? Lets remember. He had Randy Moss in year TWO with Harbaugh.

In year one, he had Josh Morgan, Crabtree, Kyle Williams, Tedd Ginn Vernon Davis.

This year, Kaep had, Anquan Boldin, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree (later in the year) Vance McDonald, Mario Manningham, and ALEX BOONE.

49er fans will understand why Alex Boone was so important.

[OldSchool]

I don't think Frank Gore is GREAT. I also think the WR are just average Boldin is just average at this point. TE is elite and OL is good at run blocking but they aren't anything more than an average offense,

That's because Kaepernick holds them back.

[laughsatyou907]

The positions they are considered great at is TE, OL, and RB. The WR core is just above average with Boldin.

You don't think that Michael Crabtree has the best hands in the league? :thailor:

[FRCDFED]

They probably have the best offensive line in the league. Crabtree and Boldin are among the best tandems in the league at WR. They have the league's most productive tight end. Gore is a top 10 back and they were #3 in the league in rushing this season.

Regardless of what anyone wants to say, Kaepernick is probably never again going to play around as much talent as he has during this 'window'.

:shake:Davis had more receiving yards than Bowe and was targeted 20 fewer times.

[Mav]

When are we getting ours?

You mean like the guy who was selected over the guy you are pointing to as a franchise qb?

Yes, Alex was picked over him as well, as other guys like Ben Roethlispuke, and other franchise quote unquote qbs. Granted Tony Romo was hurt, Aaron Rodgers missed a crap ton of time, but still, both of those qbs were healthy.

Alex made it, with less talent around him, while Kap didn't make it with more talent, familiarity in the system and an all pro defense.

Shrugs.

[Jakemall]

You don't think that Michael Crabtree has the best hands in the league? :thailor:

I do..he should be in a Palmolive commercial.

[OldSchool]

You don't think that Michael Crabtree has the best hands in the league? :thailor:

No, I would give that honor to Larry Fitzgerald ahead of anyone that is currently active. Crabtree does have good hands though.

[Mav]

You have to keep in mind, Kaep really has more than enough leverage.

If he doesn't suit up, who the **** plays for the 49ers.

Find me the QB the 49ers will land. And then we'll talk.

Yes, the same kind of crowd that screamed that Alex Smith was going to get Harbaugh fired because he was so terrible.

The same guy that had half the fan base screaming retard when they traded up to draft Kaepernick in the first place. How much do you want to bet, that Jim Harbaugh could find a guy out of this draft class, draft him in say rounds 4-7, this year, and get similar results out of him?

One guy comes QUICKLY into mind that is getting roasted right now for being a physical freak but suspect in the passing game.

Logan Thomas.

Kap has ZERO leverage, because Harbaugh has proven that he will not put any ONE player above the team. Ask Dashon Goldson how that worked out for him.

Ask Takeo Spikes, Aubryo Franklin, Josh Morgan, about how that works out for them.

Then, also take this into account. At what point do people realize that its situation that keeps Kaep where he is, and in that light. Or are some in the delusion that Kaep can go to Oakland, and have similar success?

[OldSchool]

:shake:Davis had more receiving yards than Bowe and was targeted 20 fewer times.

Seriously, if Davis were on this Chiefs offense with Alex Smith throwing the ball to him.:drool:

[BossChief]

What? LOL. Are you serious? Anquan Boldin? Lets remember. He had Randy Moss in year TWO with Harbaugh.

In year one, he had Josh Morgan, Crabtree, Kyle Williams, Tedd Ginn Vernon Davis.

This year, Kaep had, Anquan Boldin, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree (later in the year) Vance McDonald, Mario Manningham, and ALEX BOONE.

49er fans will understand why Alex Boone was so important.

Donnie Avery had 800 yards in 2012 with Andrew Luck.

Dwayne Bowe just had his worst season as a pro in terms of production and targets...his ceiling is probably 1400 yards and 15-20 touchdowns.

Jamaal Charles is as elite as elite gets.

The OL was pretty damn good when Fisher exited the lineup.

Honestly, only one player on SFs offense is "elite" ...Vernon Davis. The rest are no better than middle of the pack.

[Mav]

No, I would give that honor to Larry Fitzgerald ahead of anyone that is currently active. Crabtree does have good hands though.

I would go probably Keenan Allen, or Reggie Wayne. They are two of the most natural pass Catchers I have ever seen.

[Mav]

Donnie Avery had 800 yards in 2012 with Andrew Luck.

Dwayne Bowe just had his worst season as a pro in terms of production and targets...his ceiling is probably 1400 yards and 15-20 touchdowns.

Jamaal Charles is as elite as elite gets.

The OL was pretty damn good when Fisher exited the lineup.

Honestly, only one player on tat offense is "elite" ...Vernon Davis. The rest are no better than middle of the pack.

You are kidding yourself.

Bruce Miller is elite. Also elite on that offense.

Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Vernon Davis.

That is 5 guys who would be ranked in the top 5 at their position in the league.

The Chiefs, have ONE. Jamaal Charles.

[Eleazar]

Dwayne Bowe just had his worst season as a pro in terms of production and targets...his ceiling is probably 1400 yards and 15-20 touchdowns.


Bowe's going to have to start giving a rat's **** before his production will increase

[OldSchool]

Bowe's going to have to start giving a rat's **** before his production will increase

Seriously, he rarely ever got open. A lot of his catches had a DB right on him this season. He looked really lazy running his routes this year.

[BossChief]

You are kidding yourself.

Bruce Miller is elite. Also elite on that offense.

Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Vernon Davis.

That is 5 guys who would be ranked in the top 5 at their position in the league.

The Chiefs, have ONE. Jamaal Charles.

You think Joe Staley and Anthony Davis are elite players?

I'll give you Iupati...forgot about the elite guard.

There are at least 10 tackles before Staley and Davis' names get mentioned.

[Mav]

I don't think Frank Gore is GREAT. I also think the WR are just average Boldin is just average at this point. TE is elite and OL is good at run blocking but they aren't anything more than an average offense,

Disagree on Boldin

1179 yards 85 catches, 7 tds, despite being the primary weapon for most of the season at receiver until Crabtree returned.

That is not mediocre.

The guy is still the toughest wide receiver, one of the best run blockers, and route runners in the league.

It stuns me at how underrated the guy constantly is.

[Snapplez]

You are kidding yourself.

Bruce Miller is elite. Also elite on that offense.

Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Vernon Davis.

That is 5 guys who would be ranked in the top 5 at their position in the league.

The Chiefs, have ONE. Jamaal Charles.

JFC you're using a fullback to point out how great the SF offense is. Sherman is better than Miller every day of the year, but I don't see you claiming he's an elite super duper weapon for Smiffy. Pull his dick outta your mouth dude, you gotta breath sometime.

[BossChief]

Bowe's going to have to start giving a rat's **** before his production will increase

Your type will always tear down the Bowes of the world so you can try to prop up the Alex Smiths of the world.

It's always been that way and it will always be that way.

People did the EXACT same thing every year Cassel was here.

[Mav]

You think Joe Staley and Anthony Davis are elite players?

I'll give you Iupati...forgot about the elite guard.

There are at least 10 tackles before Staley and Davis' names get mentioned.

Not in NFL circles. And you cant honestly name 5 RIGHT TACKLES better than Anthony Davis. And I HATE THAT GUY.

You also cant name 5 better than Staley.

Ill even give you Albert, although I don't think he personally is as good.

So you have Trent Williams, Joe Thomas, Brendan Albert.

Who in your opinion is better than Staley?

Staley takes a lot of shit, but there is no question how good he is now.

Him and Iupati are as good a side by side since the Dallas Cowboys days of Erik Williams, and Larry Allen. That's how good that side is.

[Eleazar]

Your type will always tear down the Bowes of the world so you can try to prop up the Alex Smiths of the world.

It's always been that way and it will always be that way.

People did the EXACT same thing every year Cassel was here.

I don't have to tear Bowe down. It appears that him getting paid did the work for me.

[Eleazar]

Not in NFL circles. And you cant honestly name 5 RIGHT TACKLES better than Anthony Davis. And I HATE THAT GUY.

You also cant name 5 better than Staley.

Ill even give you Albert, although I don't think he personally is as good.

So you have Trent Williams, Joe Thomas, Brendan Albert.

Who in your opinion is better than Staley?

Staley takes a lot of shit, but there is no question how good he is now.

Him and Iupati are as good a side by side since the Dallas Cowboys days of Erik Williams, and Larry Allen. That's how good that side is.

Albert better than Staley ROFL

[OldSchool]

You think Joe Staley and Anthony Davis are elite players?

I'll give you Iupati...forgot about the elite guard.

There are at least 10 tackles before Staley and Davis' names get mentioned.

Staley is a 3 time All-Pro consecutively for the past 3 seasons . . .

[Mav]

JFC you're using a fullback to point out how great the SF offense is. Sherman is better than Miller every day of the year, but I don't see you claiming he's an elite super duper weapon for Smiffy. Pull his dick outta your mouth dude, you gotta breath sometime.

LOL. Sherman plays roughly about half of the teams snaps.

Talk about dick sucking.

While Bruce miller plays about 90 percent of the 49ers offensive plays.

But, okay. I never said he was bad. LOL. Remember, im not the one in here claiming that the Chiefs need a franchise qb, while sucking the dick of one who just had one of the worst 4th quarters in PLAYOFF HISTORY.

So, who is sucking who's dick Snapplez?

[BossChief]

Disagree on Boldin

1179 yards 85 catches, 7 tds, despite being the primary weapon for most of the season at receiver until Crabtree returned.

That is not mediocre.

The guy is still the toughest wide receiver, one of the best run blockers, and route runners in the league.

It stuns me at how underrated the guy constantly is.

He is probably in the 20-30th best receiver right now.

That's being very generous.

Not even close to elite.

CJ
Fitz
Green
Gordon
Andre

Those are elite guys. Boldin is at least one peg down that ladder and to be completely fair is probably 2.

[Mav]

Albert better than Staley ROFL

Shrugs. Staley anchors the BEST oline in football.

I don't understand why people even try to argue this. At least you understand:clap:

[ThaVirus]

LOL. Sherman plays roughly about half of the teams snaps.

Talk about dick sucking.

While Bruce miller plays about 90 percent of the 49ers offensive plays.


Of course Miller would play more snaps than Sherman, the 9ers are a power running team that runs the ball more than any other team in the league.

Still, 90% seems a bit high. Do you have the official numbers for that?

[Mav]

He is probably in the 20-30th best receiver right now.

That's being very generous.

Not even close to elite.

CJ
Fitz
Green
Gordon
Andre

Those are elite guys. Boldin is at least one peg down that ladder and to be completely fair is probably 2.

I wasn't arguing Elite. But, I was comparing him to say Donnie Avery.

Who you propped up with his stats, as the 4th option in Indy as justification as to how good he was.

When, if you look at it, the Indy Offense got better without Donnie Avery, while the Ravens offense was absolutely atrocious without Boldin.

That was the point I was making.

[Mav]

Of course Miller would play more snaps than Sherman, the 9ers are a power running team that runs the ball more than any other team in the league.

Still, 90% seems a bit high. Do you have the official numbers for that?

Not off hand. It has to be close to that. They run a heavy personnel way more than anyone in the league. And Miller is that vital to that team because of not only his run blocking, but his pass pro, and ability as a pass catcher.

Edit. according to CBS sports, he was on the field for 60 percent of 49ers plays, highest in the league among fullbacks.

[BossChief]

I can't believe we have posters defending a claim like "SF has elite level talents at every position on their offense"

Like, WTF?

[FRCDFED]

Donnie Avery had 800 yards in 2012 with Andrew Luck.

True, however Avery was targeted half the number of times in KC and still finished with 600 yds. He increased his ypc avg from 13.0 to 14.9.

So, for the sake of argument, Avery was more effective as a Chiefs in the opportunities he was given.

Either way this is what really bothers me:

Place Rec Targets

Indy 60 125
KC 40 72

He sure missed a lot of opportunities to catch the ball.

[OldSchool]

I wasn't arguing Elite. But, I was comparing him to say Donnie Avery.

Who you propped up with his stats, as the 4th option in Indy as justification as to how good he was.

When, if you look at it, the Indy Offense got better without Donnie Avery, while the Ravens offense was absolutely atrocious without Boldin.

That was the point I was making.

Boldin is better than any of the Chiefs Wrs and it isn't even close, lol.

[Mav]

I can't believe we have posters defending a claim like "SF has elite level talents at every position on their offense"

Like, WTF?

Not saying every player is elite. I didn't say Gore is elite, or the receivers. Or their Center, or Right Guard, but he is close.

Merely pointing out what every one seemed to agree with.

The Chiefs need to upgrade spots on the offense.

Guards, and Center, wide receivers, tight ends.

Can you disagree with that?

[Jakemall]

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/jakemall/Book1_Page_2.jpg

[BossChief]

How many times has Alex Smith EVER had a 1000 yard receiver/TE ANYTHING?

Maybe that changes, but with all that "elite level talent" surrounding him, which players blew up with him at QB?

I'll wait.

I have grown to like Alex, but some of this crap being used to tear down Kaepernick to prop up Alex is just silly.

[BossChief]

Maybe someone who doesn't lead the #30 passing attack in the league this year despite having elite talent at every position, or fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the 4th quarter against Seattle? A QB who's an actual QB?

This is the exact post I was debating...before Ace came in and moved the goalposts.

[Mav]

How many times has Alex Smith EVER had a 1000 yard receiver/TE ANYTHING?

Maybe that changes, but with all that "elite level talent" surrounding him, which players blew up with him at QB?

I'll wait.

I have grown to like Alex, but some of this crap being used to tear down Kaepernick to prop up Alex is just silly.

None. But we have discussed this before haven't we? It is quite well known, and beaten to death that Alex Smith goes through his reads and finds the open man.

Where as, Kap cant make anything beyond his first read, and that's why you see a player like Crabtree in 2012, get 47 percent of Kaepernick passes thrown in his direction, and this year, about the same thrown at Boldin.

Meanwhile, even with that 1000 yard receiver, Kaeperick threw for less yards than Alex Smith.

Despite having an All pro tight end, and the best oline in football.

You talk about 1000 yard receivers, but missed the entire point. That Alex Smith threw for more yards, and Tds.

[Jakemall]

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/jakemall/Book1_Page_1.jpg

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/jakemall/Book1_Page_2.jpg[/IMG]

http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/jakemall/Book1_Page_3.jpg


Ranked by % of passes completed when targeted for the 2013 regular season. Players with under 30 receptions were not included. Drop data also included.

[Mav]

This is the exact post I was debating...before Ace came in and moved the goalposts.

My bad. My Kap hatred runs deep-. Ill just excuse me out of this equation shall I?:(

[BossChief]

Not saying every player is elite. I didn't say Gore is elite, or the receivers. Or their Center, or Right Guard, but he is close.

Merely pointing out what every one seemed to agree with.

The Chiefs need to upgrade spots on the offense.

Guards, and Center, wide receivers, tight ends.

Can you disagree with that?

I don't think the OL needs major upgrades.

I think we need to add 1WR and 1TE that can both play.

I was at camp last year and saw Kelce with my own eyes be a player with the talent to be a difference maker.

But yeah, tell me again...how many points did our offense score with the current group of trash players?

[Mav]

I don't think the OL needs major upgrades.

I think we need to add 1WR and 1TE that can both play.

I was at camp last year and saw Kelce with my own eyes be a player with the talent to be a difference maker.

But yeah, tell me again...how many points did our offense score with the current group of trash players?

I am excusing myself from this conversation.

You are going to have a crap ton of Kaepernick ball washers in here to defend him so I wont have to, nor will I choose to, nor, do I need to speak anymore about why Kaepernick is trash, and Alex Smith is the better qb, despite having worse talent around him.

Considering you yourself said that Bowe had a down year, Avery had less yards despite being the NUMBER TWO option instead of the 4th.

I think that pretty much sums it up for me.

Now, if you don't mind, id like to shift those goal posts back to the proper spot so you can continue homering on the Chiefs, while propping up the 49ers garbage can at qb.

[salame]

I don't think the OL needs major upgrades.

I think we need to add 1WR and 1TE that can both play.

I was at camp last year and saw Kelce with my own eyes be a player with the talent to be a difference maker.

But yeah, tell me again...how many points did our offense score with the current group of trash players?

Kelce seems boom or bust.
He'll either have a 80 yard td or be tackled by the first guy there

[BossChief]

How am I propping up Kaepernick? Show me where I've done that.

I'm just trying to have a fair discussion about the subject matter.

I've voiced my opinion that I wouldn't extend Kaepernicks deal yet...I wouldn't extend Alex's deal, either.

If this franchise has learned ANYTHING over the last 20 years, it should be well known by now that you don't extend quarterbacks based on a small sample size.

[OldSchool]

How many times has Alex Smith EVER had a 1000 yard receiver/TE ANYTHING?

Maybe that changes, but with all that "elite level talent" surrounding him, which players blew up with him at QB?

I'll wait.

I have grown to like Alex, but some of this crap being used to tear down Kaepernick to prop up Alex is just silly.

He isn't a QB who focuses on just one receiver like Kaepernick or Stafford (but he has Megatron so you can't blame him), etc does. Everybody gets to touch the ball with Alex Smith quarterbacking, if you are open then he will get it to you. The only time that he looks for his "main guy" is when the game is on the line or during a crucial play. That's why you saw his pass go to Bowe on that final play in the playoffs and also the final play against the Donkeys in the second game. If the Chiefs had a WR who could consistently get open then sure, Alex would target them more and you would have a 100 catch, 1k yard receiver; I don't think he has had that in his entire career including with the Chiefs right now. He has never had a true #1 WR, closest thing would be Vernon Davis, but Davis was never really good until everyone saw him get chewed out by Singletary on National TV; only then did he finally start to put it all together.

Alex at his best is like he was against the Colts in the playoff game. He'll take advantage of what he is given and make the most of what he's got. Stands to reason that if you give Alex Smith a Josh Gordon/Fitzgerald/Johnson/Jones/Green/Jackson/etc, this Chiefs offense would be more consistently off the charts.

[Jakemall]

I don't think the OL needs major upgrades.

I think we need to add 1WR and 1TE that can both play.

I was at camp last year and saw Kelce with my own eyes be a player with the talent to be a difference maker.

But yeah, tell me again...how many points did our offense score with the current group of trash players?

How much of that was the team learning the play book and building chemistry...the offense looked pretty good at the end of the season. That said, I agree..1 WR and 1 TE should make the difference. If you can get better anywhere on the OL that's bonus, but they seemed to gel towards the end of the season as well.

[BossChief]

Kelce seems boom or bust.
He'll either have a 80 yard td or be tackled by the first guy there

I think you are going off is preseason performance, right?

The guy showed big time jitters in ps. I don't think I can remember him dropping a single pass in camp, but dropped everything in ps. He didnt quite get to the point of playing relaxed at all and seemed to be overwhelmed by the moment. Hopefully, that's something that subsides with time.

If he can get back to where he was before the micro fracture injury to his knee, he will be a big time weapon for this offense. He would have been our best tight end last year and it wouldn't have even been close.

[salame]

I was actually using the illustration of their offense being average as an indictment on Kaep.

I think he sucks and if they replace him they won't skip a beat at being an average offense.

[salame]

I think you are going off is preseason performance, right?

The guy showed big time jitters in ps. I don't think I can remember him dropping a single pass in camp, but dropped everything in ps. He didnt quite get to the point of playing relaxed at all and seemed to be overwhelmed by the moment. Hopefully, that's something that subsides with time.

If he can get back to where he was before the micro fracture injury to his knee, he will be a big time weapon for this offense. He would have been our best tight end last year and it wouldn't have even been close.

I saw him in TC and in PS but really I am going by his college stuff.

[RealSNR]

How am I propping up Kaepernick? Show me where I've done that.

I'm just trying to have a fair discussion about the subject matter.

I've voiced my opinion that I wouldn't extend Kaepernicks deal yet...I wouldn't extend Alex's deal, either.

If this franchise has learned ANYTHING over the last 20 years, it should be well known by now that you don't extend quarterbacks based on a small sample size.

I'm still floored at the arrogance Pioli showed with the Cassel contract.

MAYBE 2008 Matt Cassel was worth that kind of money. But Pioli pretty much assumed like an asshole that he would translate all the success he had that season to the Chiefs instantly. Not only that, but he probably assumed that he'd be EVER BETTER as the years progressed. The $60 million was his was of saying, "My Patriot players and QB knowledge are so awesome that I'm going to waste a whole bunch of money needlessly right now in order to save $20 million more than 6 years down the line. It's not going to help the team out all that much, but boy it will make me look like a goddamn genius!"

[salame]

I'm still floored at the arrogance Pioli showed with the Cassel contract.

MAYBE 2008 Matt Cassel was worth that kind of money. But Pioli pretty much assumed like an asshole that he would translate all the success he had that season to the Chiefs instantly. Not only that, but he probably assumed that he'd be EVER BETTER as the years progressed. The $60 million was his was of saying, "My Patriot players and QB knowledge are so awesome that I'm going to waste a whole bunch of money needlessly right now in order to save $20 million more than 6 years down the line. It's not going to help the team out all that much, but boy it will make me look like a goddamn genius!"

sinister plan to ruin the rest of the afc

[BossChief]

I saw him in TC and in PS but really I am going by his college stuff.

Watch a lot of Cincinnati football, do ya?

[Mav]

I was actually using the illustration of their offense being average as an indictment on Kaep.

I think he sucks and if they replace him they won't skip a beat at being an average offense.

There it is. I think if the 49ers go to Kaeps camp with an offer, and they refuse, Jim will get rid of him in a heart beat. I believe that Jim is very much like the Patriots in this way. He will find another player that will take their deal, kinda like Walmart, and if you don't like it, GTFO.

[BossChief]

sinister plan to ruin the rest of the afc

What's better tan a coaching staff that tries to dismantle your opponent on Sunday?

Sending those coaches out to dismantle the other teams every day.

[RealSNR]

There it is. I think if the 49ers go to Kaeps camp with an offer, and they refuse, Jim will get rid of him in a heart beat. I believe that Jim is very much like the Patriots in this way. He will find another player that will take their deal, kinda like Walmart, and if you don't like it, GTFO.

Colt McCoy?

[salame]

Watch a lot of Cincinnati football, do ya?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QxxDN81kT8A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fLqxDYTbxhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

etc etc etc

[Mav]

Colt McCoy?

Contract is up. And, I think we have seen that Harbaugh can take someone elses unwanted trash, and make them serviceable.

That's why I could see them like grabbing someone like Jake Locker if the Titans let him go, and drafting someone like a Logan Thomas.

If Jake Locker, and Alex Smiths careers aren't parallels.

[Jakemall]

There it is. I think if the 49ers go to Kaeps camp with an offer, and they refuse, Jim will get rid of him in a heart beat. I believe that Jim is very much like the Patriots in this way. He will find another player that will take their deal, kinda like Walmart, and if you don't like it, GTFO.

Not Jim...Baalke. Jim loves Kap and will fight to get him paid.

[ThaVirus]

How much of that was the team learning the play book and building chemistry...the offense looked pretty good at the end of the season. That said, I agree..1 WR and 1 TE should make the difference. If you can get better anywhere on the OL that's bonus, but they seemed to gel towards the end of the season as well.

Who knows? We didn't play a strong defense after week 11. Coincidentally, our offense looked worlds better from that point on..

[RealSNR]

Contract is up. And, I think we have seen that Harbaugh can take someone elses unwanted trash, and make them serviceable.

That's why I could see them like grabbing someone like Jake Locker if the Titans let him go, and drafting someone like a Logan Thomas.

If Jake Locker, and Alex Smiths careers aren't parallels.
Here's a fearless leader they should consider. They can have him for one 2nd round pick.

http://m2.nflrush.com/gal/sv/i/chiefs-chargers-football-chase-daniel-melvin-ingram_pg_600.jpg

[Mav]

Not Jim...Baalke. Jim loves Kap and will fight to get him paid.

Yeahhhhh, Jake, if you haven't learned anything from watching Jim, and his LOVE affair with Alex Smith, then, I really wont even try to convince you otherwise.

Remember, Jim went to Alex's wifes hospital room when she gave birth, had alex caddy for him, had alex accept his Coach of the Year award. And then tossed him aside the moment that he thought he had reached his potential with him, or had a better option.

That is my firm belief.

[Mav]

Here's a fearless leader they should consider. They can have him for one 2nd round pick.

http://m2.nflrush.com/gal/sv/i/chiefs-chargers-football-chase-daniel-melvin-ingram_pg_600.jpg

It would be like having a shorter alex all over again. Jim would be in love. ROFL

[BossChief]

There it is. I think if the 49ers go to Kaeps camp with an offer, and they refuse, Jim will get rid of him in a heart beat. I believe that Jim is very much like the Patriots in this way. He will find another player that will take their deal, kinda like Walmart, and if you don't like it, GTFO.

Like I said, I'd play out his current deal and if he is improving at reading defenses presnap, adjusting the blocking schemes presnap, changing the play at the line, going through his progressions, using his mobility to extend the passing play (and not create a running play) and overall learning to beat teams from the pocket, I'd start talks mid season next year...but if spend a mid rounder on a QB to groom.

If he isn't interested in signing at that point, I'd idle the talks till the offseason..if he still isn't interested in what we are offering, I'd tag him in 2015 and let the rook take over in 2016.

I don't like paying for something until I know what I'm gonna get...I'm not sure anyone in SF knows the answer to tat question right now.

[OldSchool]

How am I propping up Kaepernick? Show me where I've done that.

I'm just trying to have a fair discussion about the subject matter.

I've voiced my opinion that I wouldn't extend Kaepernicks deal yet...I wouldn't extend Alex's deal, either.

If this franchise has learned ANYTHING over the last 20 years, it should be well known by now that you don't extend quarterbacks based on a small sample size.

The thing is, Alex has shown that he will only get better with more time in a system. While in SF, his completion percentage under Harbaugh jumped from:

61.3 to 70.2 percent

Average yardage per went from: 7.1 to 8

He scored 13 passing TDs in 9 games vs 17 in the 2011 season with 6 fewer passing attempts per game on average.

His passer rating went from 90.7 to 104.1 from 2011 to 2012.

I would not be surprised to see him break 4k yards and 30 TDs next year, especially if the Chiefs make at least 1 significant improvement at the WR or TE position.

[TheUte]

I hope they totally mortgage the future on KAP, It would nice if they couldn't keep people around because of it.

[OldSchool]

Who knows? We didn't play a strong defense after week 11. Coincidentally, our offense looked worlds better from that point on..

The pass blocking improved significantly compared to the first half of the season. He actually had time in the pocket which allowed for longer routes to develop.

[Jakemall]

nm

[Mav]

Like I said, I'd play out his current deal and if he is improving at reading defenses presnap, adjusting the blocking schemes presnap, changing the play at the line, going through his progressions, using his mobility to extend the passing play (and not create a running play) and overall learning to beat teams from the pocket, I'd start talks mid season next year...but if spend a mid rounder on a QB to groom.

If he isn't interested in signing at that point, I'd idle the talks till the offseason..if he still isn't interested in what we are offering, I'd tag him in 2015 and let the rook take over in 2016.

I don't like paying for something until I know what I'm gonna get...I'm not sure anyone in SF knows the answer to tat question right now.

I agree with you. and don't know if you saw your rep, but I apologize for moving said goal posts.

[BossChief]

Contract is up. And, I think we have seen that Harbaugh can take someone elses unwanted trash, and make them serviceable.

That's why I could see them like grabbing someone like Jake Locker if the Titans let him go, and drafting someone like a Logan Thomas.

If Jake Locker, and Alex Smiths careers aren't parallels.

Logan Thomas?

You're kidding, right.

If you guys are looking for a bargain that could sit, learn and possibly take over in a year or two...I'd be looking at Aaron Murray.

[OldSchool]

I hope they totally mortgage the future on KAP, It would nice if they couldn't keep people around because of it.

Would be nice if, say, Aldon Smith had to leave the 49ers and come play for the Chiefs instead. Aldon Smith lined up across from Justin Houston for the next 5-7 years. :hmmm:

[salame]

Big Ben might be for sale...and McCown aquitted himself well when he played as a back up...Matt Flynn is out there too.

If Baalke wanted to take a hard line, he can do it without totally Fing the 9ers. But I don't see it happening unless Kap takes a stand for top 5ish money.

Doesn't Kaep seem like the kind of guy who will want to be the highest paid player at his position?

[salame]

Logan Thomas?

You're kidding, right.

If you guys are looking for a bargain that could sit, learn and possibly take over in a year or two...I'd be looking at Aaron Murray.

we're pretty lined up on these college kids this year
I REALLY like Aaron Murray as a project

[OldSchool]

Doesn't Kaep seem like the kind of guy who will want to be the highest paid player at his position?

Without a doubt.

[BossChief]

The thing is, Alex has shown that he will only get better with more time in a system. While in SF, his completion percentage under Harbaugh jumped from:

61.3 to 70.2 percent

Average yardage per went from: 7.1 to 8

He scored 13 passing TDs in 9 games vs 17 in the 2011 season with 6 fewer passing attempts per game on average.

His passer rating went from 90.7 to 104.1 from 2011 to 2012.

I would not be surprised to see him break 4k yards and 30 TDs next year, especially if the Chiefs make at least 1 significant improvement at the WR or TE position.

You are just regurgitating numbers to me that I originally posted some time ago.

You don't need to tell me...but I want to see it, first.

It's the show-me state, right?

[Mav]

Logan Thomas?

You're kidding, right.

If you guys are looking for a bargain that could sit, learn and possibly take over in a year or two...I'd be looking at Aaron Murray.

Not at all. After all, what did Jim Fall in love with in Kaepernick in the first place. big strong armed mobile guy who he felt he could fix.

If Logan Thomas doesn't scream a big sexy mold of clay for the Dr. Harbs to fix then what does?

[Mav]

Doesn't Kaep seem like the kind of guy who will want to be the highest paid player at his position?

Duh? lol.

[Contrarian]

Your type will always tear down the Bowes of the world so you can try to prop up the Alex Smiths of the world.

It's always been that way and it will always be that way.

People did the EXACT same thing every year Cassel was here.

OMG now that is going full retard!!

[Jakemall]

Yeahhhhh, Jake, if you haven't learned anything from watching Jim, and his LOVE affair with Alex Smith, then, I really wont even try to convince you otherwise.

Remember, Jim went to Alex's wifes hospital room when she gave birth, had alex caddy for him, had alex accept his Coach of the Year award. And then tossed him aside the moment that he thought he had reached his potential with him, or had a better option.

That is my firm belief.

LOL...I understand...on the other hand Kap was Jim's choice coming in. He took Alex after seeing film and thinking he could do something with it..we don't know if he saw a future prowbowler or just a stop gap..but he did see more than anyone else had up to that point. More, he knew that he had no chance of getting any other QB to do what he managed to get Alex to do that offseason.

[salame]

I'm sure Harbaugh would much much rather have a traditional quarterback rather than one who wants to run when he shouldn't.

[BossChief]

we're pretty lined up on these college kids this year
I REALLY like Aaron Murray as a project

IMO he would be a perfect fit in SF...especially if they can get him for a third.

I bet they trade up in the third to get him.

Watch.

[Mav]

we're pretty lined up on these college kids this year
I REALLY like Aaron Murray as a project

I like him too. But, I don't see him as a fit in a San Francisco style offense. I see him more in a Tom Brady Style offense, or even a Peyton Manning style offense. Or, if you really wanted to get creative. With the TEXANS. I think his fit with Bill Obrien would be amazing.

[OldSchool]

You are just regurgitating numbers to me that I originally posted some time ago.

You don't need to tell me...but I want to see it, first.

It's the show-me state, right?

I really hope that Eric Ebron falls to pick 23. I like Jace Amaro too, but to a lesser extent. I think you would have to have a plan in place for him if you were going to draft Amaro, doesn't seem like a very good blocker to me but is a great big target in the seam.

[Mav]

I'm sure Harbaugh would much much rather have a traditional quarterback rather than one who wants to run when he shouldn't.

Not so sure on that one.

lets retrace his steps as a head coach.

At San Diego, he had Josh Johnson.

At Stanford he had Andrew Luck who he encouraged to run.

In San Francisco, for one of the biggest plays of his short NFL coaching career, he called a full house sweep for a td from 28 yards out on 3rd down for Alex Smith, and now he has Kaepernick. He also traded for Colt McCoy who was more mobile than Scott Tolzien, and has Bethel-Thompson on his roster. All mobile qbs.

[BossChief]

Not at all. After all, what did Jim Fall in love with in Kaepernick in the first place. big strong armed mobile guy who he felt he could fix.

If Logan Thomas doesn't scream a big sexy mold of clay for the Dr. Harbs to fix then what does?

I have watched a handful of VT games and Logan Thomas is gonna bust.

I haven't EVER seen him come off his first read.

I'd be shocked if he gets drafted before the 5th, unless he wants to be a WR or a TE.

[Jakemall]

Doesn't Kaep seem like the kind of guy who will want to be the highest paid player at his position?

Doesn't matter..my point is moot since Kap's contract isn't up until after next season..that's why I had deleted it...unfortunately after you had posted this :D

As far as his intentions, I have no idea on Kap. I know he is an extremely hard worker..but I don't know if he's a guy that will put himself before the team or visa versa.

[Mav]

I really hope that Eric Ebron falls to pick 23. I like Jace Amaro too, but to a lesser extent. I think you would have to have a plan in place for him if you were going to draft Amaro, doesn't seem like a very good blocker to me but is a great big target in the seam.

Eric Ebron. Homerism aside being a tar heel guy.

WOW.

[OldSchool]

I have watched a handful of VT games and Logan Thomas is gonna bust.

I haven't EVER seen him come off his first read.

I'd be shocked if he gets drafted before the 5th, unless he wants to be a WR or a TE.

I'm sure teams fell in love with him when he told them to get out if they wanted him to play anything other than QB, lol.

[Mav]

I have watched a handful of VT games and Logan Thomas is gonna bust.

I haven't EVER seen him come off his first read.

I'd be shocked if he gets drafted before the 5th, unless he wants to be a WR or a TE.

His only chance to succeed. Is getting drafted by someone like Philly, or San Francisco. Someone who can harness that talent, let him sit for a few years.

He has to relearn to play qb from scratch.

The same way YOU just described Logan Thomas, is HOW I felt watching Kaepernick in college.

[Jakemall]

Not so sure on that one.

lets retrace his steps as a head coach.

At San Diego, he had Josh Johnson.

At Stanford he had Andrew Luck who he encouraged to run.

In San Francisco, for one of the biggest plays of his short NFL coaching career, he called a full house sweep for a td from 28 yards out on 3rd down for Alex Smith, and now he has Kaepernick. He also traded for Colt McCoy who was more mobile than Scott Tolzien, and has Bethel-Thompson on his roster. All mobile qbs.

Jim is a BIG believer in athletic QBs. He'd take a Steve Young over a Peyton Manning every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[salame]

Not so sure on that one.

lets retrace his steps as a head coach.

At San Diego, he had Josh Johnson.

At Stanford he had Andrew Luck who he encouraged to run.

In San Francisco, for one of the biggest plays of his short NFL coaching career, he called a full house sweep for a td from 28 yards out on 3rd down for Alex Smith, and now he has Kaepernick. He also traded for Colt McCoy who was more mobile than Scott Tolzien, and has Bethel-Thompson on his roster. All mobile qbs.

Dammit, I forget about Josh Johnson all the time. You're right and I stand corrected.
Shit, he loves marginal qbs who make bad decisions and scramble like crazy.

[Mav]

I'm sure teams fell in love with him when he told them to get out if they wanted him to play anything other than QB, lol.

Im not sure he will be that stubborn. After all, he was the number one tight end prospect in the country.

Im sure if he wants to make money, and he COULD MAKE A LOT OF IT, if the qb thing doesn't work out, by moving.

[Snapplez]

I'm sure Harbaugh would much much rather have a traditional quarterback rather than one who wants to run when he shouldn't.

I'm sure Harbaugh hated winning all those playoffs games with Kaeps legs.

[NinerDoug]

Not so sure on that one.

lets retrace his steps as a head coach.

At San Diego, he had Josh Johnson.

At Stanford he had Andrew Luck who he encouraged to run.

In San Francisco, for one of the biggest plays of his short NFL coaching career, he called a full house sweep for a td from 28 yards out on 3rd down for Alex Smith, and now he has Kaepernick. He also traded for Colt McCoy who was more mobile than Scott Tolzien, and has Bethel-Thompson on his roster. All mobile qbs.

The thing is, Kaep is still a relatively new QB. He definitely has work to do in the pocket and going through his reads.

But can you imagine what he will be like once gets that problem corrected? Having the arm he has, and the ability to take off if he doesn't like what he sees? He will be unstoppable.

[Mav]

Dammit, I forget about Josh Johnson all the time. You're right and I stand corrected.
Shit, he loves marginal qbs who make bad decisions and scramble like crazy.

Yup. And that furthers the point about why I said that people perceive Jim as tied to Kap. Hes not. You can tell by the way he carries himself. When you are on his team, he will defend you to the death, but Ray Ratto wrote a piece on this two years ago, that if Jim thought he could find a better Patrick willis, he would.

That two years ago, was blasphemy. Then he Let Goldson walk, traded away Alex Smith, let Delanie Walker go, and replaced them, and in pretty much all cases, got better for it.

Reid, Vance McDonald, along with Garrett Celek, and Derek Carrier. No one will ever hear me say that Kaep is better than Alex. I don't believe it, I don't think he is a better qb, leader, person, or even better at taking a shit. I think he is a piece of shit. Period.

[salame]

I'm sure Harbaugh hated winning all those playoffs games with Kaeps legs.

If you would have read the whole thread you would have noticed my redaction
:clap:

[Jakemall]

The thing is, Kaep is still a relatively new QB. He definitely has work to do in the pocket and going through his reads.

But can you imagine what he will be like once gets that problem corrected? Having the arm he has, and the ability to take off if he doesn't like what he sees? He will be unstoppable.

Pretty sure Mav does not believe it is likely that Kap will improve in that area at this point.

[Mav]

I'm sure Harbaugh hated winning all those playoffs games with Kaeps legs.

And yet, when it came right down to it, when he had to rely on Kaep to pass, he failed, and failed epically.

A fumble when the Seattle defense contained him, and two picks. One that everyone in the stadium saw coming, but KAEP WAS GOING TO THROW OVER A 6'4 SAFETY.

Im sure he did love Kaeps legs. It has got him the same exact thing he got with Alex Smith.

No super bowl wins.

[BossChief]

I really hope that Eric Ebron falls to pick 23. I like Jace Amaro too, but to a lesser extent. I think you would have to have a plan in place for him if you were going to draft Amaro, doesn't seem like a very good blocker to me but is a great big target in the seam.

Amaro is a guy defenses will have to gameplan for. He is huge, fast, smart and really good hands.

I'm not sure there is anyone in the league to compare him to.

I'll be extremely happy if we end up with any of the three top guys in my sig at TE. Any of them would instantly transform this offense into an explosive scoring unit IMO.

I think if we add Ebron and a top flight safety, this team is gonna be in a good place to make a run over the next few years.

[FRCDFED]

Eric Ebron. Homerism aside being a tar heel guy.

WOW.

He is an amazing athlete as a TE. I've watched both his and Kelce's highlight's and it isn't even close. Ebron is on another level. He is the equivalent of a WR playing TE. A really really good WR. lol

[Mav]

The thing is, Kaep is still a relatively new QB. He definitely has work to do in the pocket and going through his reads.

But can you imagine what he will be like once gets that problem corrected? Having the arm he has, and the ability to take off if he doesn't like what he sees? He will be unstoppable.

Try this Doug. Hope in one hand, and shit in the other.

See which gets full first.

When the Ravens took away his running ability, and pressured him in the super bowl, he failed. When the Seahawks took away his ability to run in the 4th quarter, and forced him to win with his arm, he failed.

The tape is out. People keep talking about him getting more experienced.

The defenses have MORE tape on him. They know what he is going to do now, and they adjust as the game goes on.

Its going to get worse, before it ever gets better. Especially if they do decide to pay him franchise money.

Bye Bye Aldon, Bye bye Iupati, BYE BYE CRABTREE.

Then what? Jim has proven he can win with his TYPE of qb.

[BossChief]

His only chance to succeed. Is getting drafted by someone like Philly, or San Francisco. Someone who can harness that talent, let him sit for a few years.

He has to relearn to play qb from scratch.

The same way YOU just described Logan Thomas, is HOW I felt watching Kaepernick in college.

Haha.

So, you want to replace a guy that needs to learn to play quarterback with a guy that is even further from that goal?

Why not just draft a guy like Aaron Murray, who will drop some in the draft because of his injury and be a good fit for your offense.

[Mav]

He is an amazing athlete as a TE. I've watched both his and Kelce's highlight's and it isn't even close. Ebron is on another level. He is the equivalent of a WR playing TE. A really really good WR. lol

My first thought when I saw him. Mind you, I knew who he was. My dad and him graduated from the Same High school.

Smith High School in Greensboro North Carolina.

But, my very first impression of him.

HES A YOUNG ANTONIO GATES.

[Mav]

Haha.

So, you want to replace a guy that needs to learn to play quarterback with a guy that is even further from that goal?

Why not just draft a guy like Aaron Murray, who will drop some in the draft because of his injury and be a good fit for your offense.

The mobility factor. Maybe I haven't watched enough of Georgia games.

But, the track record speaks that Harbs wants a guy who can run.

his LEAST athletic qb since he became a head coach, has been Alex Smith, and hes pretty damn athletic himself.

[OldSchool]

Amaro is a guy defenses will have to gameplan for. He is huge, fast, smart and really good hands.

I'm not sure there is anyone in the league to compare him to.

I'll be extremely happy if we end up with any of the three top guys in my sig at TE. Any of them would instantly transform this offense into an explosive scoring unit IMO.

I think if we add Ebron and a top flight safety, this team is gonna be in a good place to make a run over the next few years.

The best I could honestly do would be Jimmy Graham when they line him up in the slot for NO. Amaro is more of a really big WR than a TE at this point, IMO.

[BossChief]

He is probably 20 pounds bigger than Graham, though.

I don't hear ANYONE talking about Jenkins from Washington, but that guy is gonna be a monster, too.

Big, good blocker, great hands, good speed and is a demigod with the ball in his hands. Great motor and awareness.

[-King-]

I'll trade them Smith for Kaepernick.

As of right now, I'll pass.

[OldSchool]

He is probably 20 pounds bigger than Graham, though.

I don't hear ANYONE talking about Jenkins from Washington, but that guy is gonna be a monster, too.

Big, good blocker, great hands, good speed and is a demigod with the ball in his hands. Great motor and awareness.

Jenkins looks sluggish compared to Ebron and Amaro. He is much better at blocking than either Ebron or Amaro but doesn't have the same ability to attack down field. Reminds me a lot of Marcedes Lewis but with better hands.

[NinerDoug]

Pretty sure Mav does not believe it is likely that Kap will improve in that area at this point.

Well, we shall see.

I can think of about a zillion people who at various points wrote Alex off as a bust, thought there was no way he could improve.

I see no reason to be pessimistic about Kaep at this point.

[Snapplez]

If you would have read the whole thread you would have noticed my redaction
:clap:

Shit, I don't even read the things I respond to.

[NinerDoug]

Try this Doug. Hope in one hand, and shit in the other.

See which gets full first.

When the Ravens took away his running ability, and pressured him in the super bowl, he failed. When the Seahawks took away his ability to run in the 4th quarter, and forced him to win with his arm, he failed.

The tape is out. People keep talking about him getting more experienced.

The defenses have MORE tape on him. They know what he is going to do now, and they adjust as the game goes on.

Its going to get worse, before it ever gets better. Especially if they do decide to pay him franchise money.

Bye Bye Aldon, Bye bye Iupati, BYE BYE CRABTREE.

Then what? Jim has proven he can win with his TYPE of qb.

I see no reason to predict that. He will certainly be getting a lot of work on staying in the pocket and going through his reads during the offseason.

[Mav]

I see no reason to predict that. He will certainly be getting a lot of work on staying in the pocket and going through his reads during the offseason.

Admittedly, I just don't like the guy.

[OldSchool]

Well, we shall see.

I can think of about a zillion people who at various points wrote Alex off as a bust, thought there was no way he could improve.

I see no reason to be pessimistic about Kaep at this point.

Well, the thing is Alex had a revolving door around him in terms of coaching, coaching philosophies, players, etc. whereas Kaepernick has been in the same system with largely the same or improved group of players for 3 consecutive years now. He has yet to show any significant improvements as far as just playing QB goes. That does not bode well considering the fact that he has been coached by, what some consider, the best QB coaches in the NFL ever since he got into the league.

[NinerDoug]

Admittedly, I just don't like the guy.

Lol

[NinerDoug]

Well, the thing is Alex had a revolving door around him in terms of coaching, coaching philosophies, players, etc. whereas Kaepernick has been in the same system with largely the same or improved group of players for 3 consecutive years now. He has yet to show any significant improvements as far as just playing QB goes. That does not bode well considering the fact that he has been coached by, what some consider, the best QB coaches in the NFL ever since he got into the league.

He's been starting for a season and a half.

[FRCDFED]

He's been starting for a season and a half.

Still been learning in the same system though.

[FRCDFED]

2014 NFL Draft: Eric Ebron ‘cleanest tight end prospect since Vernon Davis’

http://fansided.com/2014/01/17/2014-nfl-draft-eric-ebron-cleanest-tight-end-prospect-since-vernon-davis/#!tzGtB

By Patrick Schmidt - Jan 17th, 2014 at 7:13 pm

Sep 7, 2013; Chapel Hill, NC, USA; North Carolina Tar Heels tight end Eric Ebron (85) dives into the endzone over Middle Tennessee Blue Raiders corner back Jared Singletary (24) on a 2-point conversion attempt at Kenan Memorial Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Liz Condo-USA TODAY Sports
The tight end position is en vogue in the NFL with Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski and Vernon Davis among others presenting matchup problems for opposing defenses and they could be getting a new member into the elite group of NFL tight ends in former North Carolina Tar Heels tight end Eric Ebron.

The 6-5, 245-pound Ebron has a chance to be a top-15 draft pick. One source told Bleacher Report’s NFL draft analyst Matt Miller that he has been called the “cleanest tight end prospect since Vernon Davis” in their meetings.

Davis was the sixth overall selection in the 2006 draft and has two seasons with 13 touchdowns on his resume. When Graham entered the draft he was a former basketball player with a limited track record on the football field and didn’t dominate while at Miami.

Gronkowski missed his junior season at Arizona with a back injury and like Graham presented significant upside, but they were not “clean” like Ebron who should be a slam dunk pick as the first tight end taken in May’s draft after a 62-catch season in which he had 972 yards and three touchdowns

[ViperVisor]

He's been starting for a season and a half.

That's the glass half full way of seeing it.

Or you look at like he was 26.
4 years starting in college and 1200 passes.
3 years in the NFL, 1.5 starting and 800 passes.


QBs that have played some since 2000 that didn't get better from where they were at early in their career.

Bruce Gradkowski
Kevin Kolb
A.J. Feeley
Brandon Weeden
Seneca Wallace
Trent Edwards
Patrick Ramsey
J.P. Losman
Quincy Carter
Christian Ponder
Charlie Batch
Kordell Stewart
Derek Anderson
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
Byron Leftwich
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Chad Henne
Matt Cassel
Joey Harrington
Aaron Brooks
Jay Cutler


QB is like Pitching. You 1st need to get it and then you can perfect the art of pitching.

Kaepernick obviously still hasn't clicked into being an NFL passer.
He can throw great like some young pitchers can throw great.
But that gets you only so far.

It is no certainty that he will settle into the proper habits that good QBs develop because those franchise level guys usually already have when they were 26yo.

[OldSchool]

2014 NFL Draft: Eric Ebron ‘cleanest tight end prospect since Vernon Davis’

http://fansided.com/2014/01/17/2014-nfl-draft-eric-ebron-cleanest-tight-end-prospect-since-vernon-davis/#!tzGtB

By Patrick Schmidt - Jan 17th, 2014 at 7:13 pm

Sep 7, 2013; Chapel Hill, NC, USA; North Carolina Tar Heels tight end Eric Ebron (85) dives into the endzone over Middle Tennessee Blue Raiders corner back Jared Singletary (24) on a 2-point conversion attempt at Kenan Memorial Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Liz Condo-USA TODAY Sports
The tight end position is en vogue in the NFL with Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski and Vernon Davis among others presenting matchup problems for opposing defenses and they could be getting a new member into the elite group of NFL tight ends in former North Carolina Tar Heels tight end Eric Ebron.

The 6-5, 245-pound Ebron has a chance to be a top-15 draft pick. One source told Bleacher Report’s NFL draft analyst Matt Miller that he has been called the “cleanest tight end prospect since Vernon Davis” in their meetings.

Davis was the sixth overall selection in the 2006 draft and has two seasons with 13 touchdowns on his resume. When Graham entered the draft he was a former basketball player with a limited track record on the football field and didn’t dominate while at Miami.

Gronkowski missed his junior season at Arizona with a back injury and like Graham presented significant upside, but they were not “clean” like Ebron who should be a slam dunk pick as the first tight end taken in May’s draft after a 62-catch season in which he had 972 yards and three touchdowns

Well crap, there goes that pipe dream. In all honesty though, I think he is the best and most sure receiving threat in this draft, including Sammy Watkins.

[Eleazar]

Still been learning in the same system though.

He could get better, but the precedent for someone like that is basically just Donovan McNabb.

For most of those guys, it's hard to re-learn the position if you don't learn it before the NFL level.

[NinerDoug]

That's the glass half full way of seeing it.

Or you look at like he was 26.
4 years starting in college and 1200 passes.
3 years in the NFL, 1.5 starting and 800 passes.


QBs that have played some since 2000 that didn't get better from where they were at early in their career.

Bruce Gradkowski
Kevin Kolb
A.J. Feeley
Brandon Weeden
Seneca Wallace
Trent Edwards
Patrick Ramsey
J.P. Losman
Quincy Carter
Christian Ponder
Charlie Batch
Kordell Stewart
Derek Anderson
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
Byron Leftwich
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Chad Henne
Matt Cassel
Joey Harrington
Aaron Brooks
Jay Cutler


QB is like Pitching. You 1st need to get it and then you can perfect the art of pitching.

Kaepernick obviously still hasn't clicked into being an NFL passer.
He can throw great like some young pitchers can throw great.
But that gets you only so far.

It is no certainty that he will settle into the proper habits that good QBs develop because those franchise level guys usually already have when they were 26yo.

Well, like Alex, he played in non-NFL type offense in college. It's not like that time was spent learning how to run an NFL offense.

[Ragged Robin]

Hopefully they give him a ridiculously overpaid deal so I can laugh hysterically.

[FRCDFED]

Well crap, there goes that pipe dream. In all honesty though, I think he is the best and most sure receiving threat in this draft, including Sammy Watkins.

If we could somehow land one of them I would be very happy. We need a game changer as our 1st round pick. These two are probably the closest to a "sure thing" at this point based on film. Sure, there are other quality players but will they make the same impact?

I wouldn't be surprised to see BB trade up to land one of the top tight ends after the chaos that landed Hernandez in jail and Gronk's injury history. When healthy, NE has proven that TE's are a critical component to the offense and the right one can create a serious mismatch for the defense. Ebron would do just that. Usually NE trades down but I don't see that happening this year. Too many winning seasons has always had them at the bottom of round 1. It has to catch up at some point. Also, I think Brady's window is starting to close.

[Jimmya]

Yes....Brady is getting old.

[Mav]

If we could somehow land one of them I would be very happy. We need a game changer as our 1st round pick. These two are probably the closest to a "sure thing" at this point based on film. Sure, there are other quality players but will they make the same impact?

I wouldn't be surprised to see BB trade up to land one of the top tight ends after the chaos that landed Hernandez in jail and Gronk's injury history. When healthy, NE has proven that TE's are a critical component to the offense and the right one can create a serious mismatch for the defense. Ebron would do just that. Usually NE trades down but I don't see that happening this year. Too many winning seasons has always had them at the bottom of round 1. It has to catch up at some point. Also, I think Brady's window is starting to close.

Well, I don't know if I can agree with that or not.

They had a TON of injuries, especially on their D line, and they got caught flat footed with Aaron Hernandez, and the Hoodies ego of Danny Amendola can replace Wes Welker.

Now, the rumor mill is that the Pats and Cards are discussing a possible deal that could land them Larry Fitzgerald.

And, lets not forget, they have an eye for talent. They did draft Gronk in the second, and then grabbed Hernandez in the 4th.

So, I don't see them reaching, just to make a point.

They may lose Brandon Spikes to free agency, that's a place you could see Cj Mosely go. They also need a true pass rushing end.

So if one slides, you could see them grab say Kareem Martin from North Carolina late in the first.

The patriots will never over reach.

I could see the pats trading Mallett and a 3rd to Arizona, for Fitz.

Wouldn't that be some shit?

[GoChargers]

Why on Earth would Arizona trade Fitzgerald when they actually have a good team? It's not like they're in full rebuild mode.

[BIG_DADDY]

I see them signing Kaep now at a discount just as the guy was saying. I think he will sign too. He is in a great situation with coach and team that really like him and took a big chance on him and they still have lots of upside. The 9ers also have a 1st and two 2nds this year to add to an already deep roster. They have done great with their picks as well and will be in a new stadium. The potential downside is too far down to take that risk. I think he signs.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why on Earth would Arizona trade Fitzgerald when they actually have a good team? It's not like they're in full rebuild mode.

Do you trust Carson Palmer? They're in a tough spot. I don't know if trading Fitz is the answer, but it should be a consideration. They need to get a QB, and I'm not sure who is going to be around at their pick.

[ThaVirus]

I'd trade Fitz if I were in charge there. He's not getting any younger..

[BossChief]

If they trade Fitz, they clear 8m in cap space this year (after the 10m dead money hit) and over 21 million next year.

If they can get a premium pick by trading him, they probably should.

[Ragged Robin]

lol Kaep cried about Sherman well after Sherman already apologized. He said that Sherman is scared of 9er receivers and he's going to exploit him next year.. he threw at him twice in the NFCC for 0/2 1 INT.. ROFL

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000320309/article/colin-kaepernick-richard-shermans-rant-ridiculous

[OldSchool]

lol Kaep cried about Sherman well after Sherman already apologized. He said that Sherman is scared of 9er receivers and he's going to exploit him next year.. he threw at him twice in the NFCC for 0/2.. ROFL

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000320309/article/colin-kaepernick-richard-shermans-rant-ridiculous

That's hilarious, lol. Love the comment section on there.

Kaep should be playing in the N"if"L.

It took him this long to come up with that retort? No wonder why he's always late coming out of the huddle.

He basically admitted that he wasn't good enough to make the throw. "If I had been more accurate".Well no shit Sherlock, lol. ROFL Yeah, please sign him now to a 6 year 120 mil deal so that I can continue to laugh at his stupidity as SF is forced to stick with the glorified RB.

[Deberg_1990]

Do you trust Carson Palmer? They're in a tough spot. I don't know if trading Fitz is the answer, but it should be a consideration. They need to get a QB, and I'm not sure who is going to be around at their pick.

Cards are in a very tough spot. They basically have two strong teams they need to leapfrog over. Won't be easy.

[Palko 4 ever]

Hopefully they give him a ridiculously overpaid deal so I can laugh hysterically.
This

[Jimmya]

Kap sure did talk alot of smack...we'll see how next year goes.

[FRCDFED]

Well, I don't know if I can agree with that or not.

They had a TON of injuries, especially on their D line, and they got caught flat footed with Aaron Hernandez, and the Hoodies ego of Danny Amendola can replace Wes Welker.

Now, the rumor mill is that the Pats and Cards are discussing a possible deal that could land them Larry Fitzgerald.

And, lets not forget, they have an eye for talent. They did draft Gronk in the second, and then grabbed Hernandez in the 4th.

So, I don't see them reaching, just to make a point.

They may lose Brandon Spikes to free agency, that's a place you could see Cj Mosely go. They also need a true pass rushing end.

So if one slides, you could see them grab say Kareem Martin from North Carolina late in the first.

The patriots will never over reach.

I could see the pats trading Mallett and a 3rd to Arizona, for Fitz.

Wouldn't that be some shit?

Landing Fitz would really be something. I for one think Fitz is a little overpaid for his production. IMO he is behind Megatron, Green, Jones, etc. but is still a good WR. Emphasis on "good." No where near worth his salary.

[Ragged Robin]

http://insidethefilmroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/PickSL.gif

Bump. Kaepernick sucks. Y-Post couldn't be more open than that.