Brandon Flowers.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Thoughts...?

[In58men]

He's good

[Steron]

He's too slow?

[KC_Lee]

Has trouble with larger receivers.

[BlackHelicopters]

Cool story, bro.

[Big Poppa Payne]

Who is Wes Welker's daddy?

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Cool story, bro.

The correct answer was "TL;DR"

Thanks for playing.

[Ragged Robin]

lost a step

[Dayze]

I wonder how much of it has to do with Lewis playing over the top of him at times.

[ChiefRocka]

draft db in the first

[tyton75]

Costs too much for his value to the team

[Mr_Tomahawk]

draft db in the first

Bingo. Time to plan for the future... B-Flo needs to take a pay-cut and accept he will be the #2 CB on this squad.

Dennard.

[hometeam]

I like him. effective. Good locker room guy. good mentor for cooper and maybe even smith

[The Franchise]

Get him a FS and keep him in the slot. Dude needs a pay cut though.

[Dunerdr]

If his knee is good and cooper progresses as he should I'd like to see flowers be our slot corner. He's our shiftiest corner. And I do wonder how much of our corner play comes from playing a single high safety who is at best a single high liability. You know our corners either play between the ball in position to make a play or play to make the stop between the endzone. To play aggressive like we supposedly want to we need a guy that's got range to that can play sideline to sideline and be responsible for the backside. Sherman looks like a stud but he's doing it with two safeties that are second to few. We're playing with two average corners a rookie and leftovers outside of berry who's playing lb or tight end lockdown.

[ModSocks]

Keep him on the outside. End this slot madness, which is what they did at the end of the season.

[T-post Tom]

Bad year. Knee really seemed to slow him down. Hoping he regains form/speed after a healthy off-season. Improved safety help is needed, regardless of who's playing CB. Good veteran leader.

[Clyde Frog]

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/wes-welker.gif%3Fw%3D630%26h%3D355

[Mav]

Draft Dennard. Cut Sean Smith, Cooper, and Flowers start, Dennard plays Flowers left corner spot on nickel downs.

Draft Tre Boston in the 3rd round.

Defensive secondary fixed.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Draft Dennard. Cut Sean Smith, Cooper, and Flowers start, Dennard plays Flowers left corner spot on nickel downs.

Draft Tre Boston in the 3rd round.

Defensive secondary fixed.

Rep.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10406203&postcount=106

[Molitoth]

Draft Dennard. Cut Sean Smith, Cooper, and Flowers start, Dennard plays Flowers left corner spot on nickel downs.

Draft Tre Boston in the 3rd round.

Defensive secondary fixed.


Hire a DC that makes adjustments and won't start Kendrick Lewis over and over again.

Fixed.

[SAUTO]

he's a player for the chiefs at this point

[The Franchise]

Draft Dennard. Cut Sean Smith, Cooper, and Flowers start, Dennard plays Flowers left corner spot on nickel downs.

Draft Tre Boston in the 3rd round.

Defensive secondary fixed.

Sign Chris Clemons to play FS.

Defensive secondary fixed.

[Big Poppa Payne]

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/wes-welker.gif%3Fw%3D630%26h%3D355

I will never get sick of seeing that clip.

[Bowser]

I wonder how much of it has to do with Lewis playing over the top of him at times.

This.

And just in case anyone has already forgotten -

TY Hilton with Brandon Flowers in the game - 4 rec 29 yds
TY Hilton with Brandon Flowers out of the game - 9 rec 200(ish) yds 2 TDS

[Dunerdr]

So is it better to play our best corner against the best wr regardless or keep out best two on the outside and leave say cooper on the slot guy and pray there's help over top? Does anyone think berry could cover a #2 or #3 guy in the slot on passing downs?

[Bowser]

I will never get sick of seeing that clip.

Indeed.

How did that taste, Welker?

[saphojunkie]

He's got soul, but he's not a soldier. But on the Bright side, he's a real Killer. And with all these things that he's done, I'd have to say "Brandy - you're a star." And like I said in the Late Night BS thread (a real midnight show), he doesn't look a thing like Jesus, but he always comes out On Top.

[Anyong Bluth]

He has the same name as the lead singer of The Killers.

[MahiMike]

I prefer mums over roses.

[Anyong Bluth]

He's got soul, but he's not a soldier. But on the Bright side, he's a real Killer. And with all these things that he's done, I'd have to say "Brandy - you're a star." And like I said in the Late Night BS thread (a real midnight show), he doesn't look a thing like Jesus, but he always comes out On Top.

Crazy, looks like we were typing / thinking the same thing at the same time!

[saphojunkie]

Crazy, looks like we were typing / thinking the same thing at the same time!

:thumb:

[BlackHelicopters]

Taco Bell Dump>B Flowers

[Mr. Laz]

really hard to judge our secondary players when there are real questions about our secondary coaching

It looks like Flowers has lost a step and he wasn't fast to start with

[Mr. Laz]

http://nesncom.files.worpress.com/2013/11/wes-welker.gif%3Fw%3D630%26h%3D355
He still didn't really hit him ... he shoved him.

[Steron]

really hard to judge our secondary players when there are real questions about our secondary coaching

It looks like Flowers has lost a step and he wasn't fast to start with


This

[salame]

he sucks
burnt toast

[Eureka]

Could be worse!

[Garcia Bronco]

Did you know that Flowers and Kam Chancellor played in the same secondary in college?

[Titty Meat]

Peyton Manning

[HolyHat]

Cut him and give his money to Chase Daniels and Kniles Davis because they are a leet players

[BryanBusby]

doesn't look a thing like jesus

[TEX]

If Flowers doesn't go down, KC beats the Colts in the playoff game...THAT was the injury that hurt the most when you consider when it happened. KC had overcome the others.

[Just Passin' By]

Welker made Flowers his bitch in their first meeting, and that was the end of the Chiefs defense.

[HolyHat]

If Flowers doesn't go down, KC beats the Colts in the playoff game...THAT was the injury that hurt the most when you consider when it happened. KC had overcome the others.

K.

[scho63]

Put on too much weight during his injury and never recovered his speed or swagger.

He isn't the WORST we got but he couldn't even make the Seattle team as a reserve.

[ModSocks]

He isn't the WORST we got but he couldn't even make the Seattle team as a reserve.

That is the dumbest thing i've read in a thread full of dumb statements.

[OldSchool]

Not worth the price. He can't cover outside WRs very well and was abused by #1 WRs in man coverage. Needs to be replaced ASAP.

[HolyHat]

Flowers has always given up receptions. What he's been good at was preventing YAC. He wasn't fully healthy and did put on some extra weight so what he was good at, got exposed.

[TEX]

Not worth the price. He can't cover outside WRs very well and was abused by #1 WRs in man coverage. Needs to be replaced ASAP.

Not really replaced. He always gave up plays. What he didn't do was give up YAC yards.

[ModSocks]

Not worth the price. He can't cover outside WRs very well and was abused by #1 WRs in man coverage. Needs to be replaced ASAP.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion considering he played the majority of his time in the slot.

The guy had a down season but some of you act like he's Quinten Jammer. He's not what he was but he's far better than what some of the people in this thread give him credit for.

Needs to be replaced ASAP? Nigga please. There's 5 other positions on this D that need to fixed before i'd worry about Flowers.

[HolyHat]

I think he's fine. Just needs the off season to get healthy. We need to focus on getting QB pressure before we start talking about replacing Flowers.

[TEX]

I think he's fine. Just needs the off season to get healthy. We need to focus on getting QB pressure before we start talking about replacing Flowers.

Pretty much how I see too.

[Anyong Bluth]

Honestly, I don't think he was ever fully healed or healthy from the start of the year, and played through it for the most part, and was asked to carry the load in the secondary more than anyone else by far in coverage and matchups.

[ModSocks]

I think he's fine. Just needs the off season to get healthy. We need to focus on getting QB pressure before we start talking about replacing Flowers.

Or Maybe a legit Safety if we're going to be playing Cover 1? How about a nickle or CB#2 who know how to cover a rub route?

Maybe a D coordinator that isn't called out as being predictable by other NFL coaches?

Flowers has been nothing but a pro since his rookie year. This past season everything around him changed. His teammates changed, the scheme changed and they even asked him to change positions.

Anyone ever consider that MAYBE, just MAYBE some of the problems in the secondary have much more to do with the failure of the secondary/coaching as a whole rather than just Flowers himself?

[HolyHat]

It all comes back to pressuring the QB. Even Cooper looked elite when we were getting pressure.

[bricks]

I think he is more suited for zone.

I don't see him as being that man to man guy capable of covering top receivers on the outside.

[OldSchool]

I think he's fine. Just needs the off season to get healthy. We need to focus on getting QB pressure before we start talking about replacing Flowers.

The biggest problem is that we can't cover anyone for more than 2 seconds which means that our pass rush has almost no chance to get to the QB at all. No matter how much you load up on pass rushers for us, good QBs are always able to get rid of the ball long before they are even in danger of being sacked because our DBs suck. Flowers is bad, Smith is inconsistent and seems to lack focus, Cooper is really inconsistent in his tech, Berry needs to drop some weight, and Lewis needs to go play in Arena football.

[HolyHat]

Or Maybe a legit Safety if we're going to be playing Cover 1? How about a nickle or CB#2 who know how to cover a rub route?

Maybe a D coordinator that isn't called out as being predictable by other NFL coaches?

Flowers has been nothing but a pro since his rookie year. This past season everything around him changed. His teammates changed, the scheme changed and they even asked him to change positions.

Anyone ever consider that MAYBE, just MAYBE some of the problems in the secondary have much more to do with the failure of the secondary/coaching as a whole rather than just Flowers himself?

It's easier for people to blame an individual player when they don't understand the scheme. Flowers is one of the best players on this team imo. Needs some help around him though.

[ModSocks]

I still remember two seasons ago a commentator showing how seemless Flowers and Berry passed off their man in coverage. It's as if they knew what they were doing.

On Sunday i watched Seattle do it. Their secondary trusted each other and, though i can't remember the play, I do remember Denver doing their normal rub routes and Seattle's secondary weren't tripping over themselves. Instead they passed the receiver off and maintained their coverage.

This season, the Chiefs couldn't do that to save their lives. Time after time they'd get crossed up by two receivers or bunch sets, not pass their man off and leave a guy wide the fuck open.

I know Flowers can do it. We've seen him do it season after season. All of a sudden he forgot how to play his position? Sorry, not buying it.

You add three new CB's into the mix, none of which can pick up a crossing route or pass off a rub route worth a shit and add more responsibility to Kendrick Lewis' plate and then we wonder why Flowers had a down season?

[mcaj22]

It's easier for people to blame an individual player when they don't understand the scheme. Flowers is one of the best players on this team imo. Needs some help around him though.

we have 6 pro bowlers on defense

and it still needs help? it's just sad at this point all this talent can't perform together or cover even 1 liability.

[ModSocks]

The biggest problem is that we can't cover anyone for more than 2 seconds which means that our pass rush has almost no chance to get to the QB at all. No matter how much you load up on pass rushers for us, good QBs are always able to get rid of the ball long before they are even in danger of being sacked because our DBs suck. Flowers is bad, Smith is inconsistent and seems to lack focus, Cooper is really inconsistent in his tech, Berry needs to drop some weight, and Lewis needs to go play in Arena football.

Flowers is bad (who just made the Probowl may i remind you) but Cooper and Smith are just "inconsistent"? You want a 210lb SS to lose weight?

What in the fuck?

[ModSocks]

we have 6 pro bowlers on defense

and it still needs help? it's just sad at this point all this talent can't perform together or cover even 1 liability.

It isn't "1" liability.

Kendrick Lewis is a liability. We knew this coming into the season.

Sean Smith is a Liability. Gochiefs spent an entire offseason trying to explain this

Dunta Robinson is a liability. We knew this coming into the season.

Marcus Cooper is a liability. Was an undrafted free agent who had a few good games and was completely exposed later in the season, so much to the point where they had to take him off the field.

Our one good Safety spends most of his time in the box or in man coverage on TE's.

[scho63]

That is the dumbest thing i've read in a thread full of dumb statements.

I think your statement is slightly dumber......

One player did have a huge drop; cornerback Brandon Flowers. He will participate in the Pro Bowl on Sunday in Hawaii, more of an honor for what he did in previous seasons than how he played in 2013.

Flowers had some dismal games in 2013, none worse than the torching he received against Dez Bryant and the Dallas Cowboys early in the season, and then by the San Diego Chargers halfway through. In fairness to Flowers, he missed a couple of games early in the season because of a sore knee, and it might not have been right the rest of the way.

Still, it's a fact that Flowers didn't play very well, and it's to the point it's natural to wonder about his future with the Chiefs. He's a 5-foot-9, 187-pound player on a team that now prefers bigger cornerbacks. It's more than a little telling that the Chiefs used Flowers to cover the slot receiver in their nickel defense as the season went on.

[Easy 6]

Still a damn solid pro, has been a high character guy from day one... but I no longer want him on a teams best guy, period.

Small in stature and not particularly fast is a terrible combination for the games best receivers... he needs to move to #2 or the nickel, no question about it.

[mcaj22]

It isn't "1" liability.

Kendrick Lewis is a liability. We knew this coming into the season.

Sean Smith is a Liability. Gochiefs spent an entire offseason trying to explain this

Dunta Robinson is a liability. We knew this coming into the season.

Marcus Cooper is a liability. Was an undrafted free agent who had a few good games and was completely exposed later in the season, so much to the point where they had to take him off the field.

Our one good Safety spends most of his time in the box or in man coverage on TE's.

I was told on CP that Sean Smith is good and Dunta Robinson would play FS. And Marcus Cooper will be the next Al Harris. So was I lied to? You're arguing we now only have one good CB after dumping 30 million into the position last offseason? We are back to square one?

[ModSocks]

I think your statement is slightly dumber......

One player did have a huge drop; cornerback Brandon Flowers. He will participate in the Pro Bowl on Sunday in Hawaii, more of an honor for what he did in previous seasons than how he played in 2013.

Flowers had some dismal games in 2013, none worse than the torching he received against Dez Bryant and the Dallas Cowboys early in the season, and then by the San Diego Chargers halfway through. In fairness to Flowers, he missed a couple of games early in the season because of a sore knee, and it might not have been right the rest of the way.

Still, it's a fact that Flowers didn't play very well, and it's to the point it's natural to wonder about his future with the Chiefs. He's a 5-foot-9, 187-pound player on a team that now prefers bigger cornerbacks. It's more than a little telling that the Chiefs used Flowers to cover the slot receiver in their nickel defense as the season went on.

And where did you pull this from? Some sports writer who doesn't watch the Chiefs?

It seems like when ever people want to talk about Flowers they bring up that Dez Bryant game.

One of the most dominant WR's in the game took it to Flowers for one half of a football game.

Yup. Flowers is done for sure.

Most teams double cover a guy like Dez Bryant. The Chiefs however left him alone in coverage with Lewis playing Fs.

And if you remember the Chargers game....our secondary couldn't cover the crossing routes worth a shit, which is something i've already addressed.

[ModSocks]

I was told on CP that Sean Smith is good and Dunta Robinson would play FS. And Marcus Cooper will be the next Al Harris. So was I lied to? You're arguing we now only have one good CB after dumping 30 million into the position last offseason? We are back to square one?

Not sure who on CP you listened to. You need to make some new friends.

Yes Chiefs fans, we are back to square one in the secondary.

[scho63]

And where did you pull this from? Some sports writer who doesn't watch the Chiefs?

It seems like when ever people want to talk about Flowers they bring up that Dez Bryant game.

One of the most dominant WR's in the game took it to Flowers for one half of a football game.

Yup. Flowers is done for sure.

Most teams double cover a guy like Dez Bryant. The Chiefs however left him alone in coverage with Lewis playing Fs.

And if you remember the Chargers game....our secondary couldn't cover the crossing routes worth a shit, which is something i've already addressed.

I never said he was DONE

But if you don't think his play this year was way off and looks in steep decline, then you aren't facing the facts.

If he can find a way to regain his speed and strength at 29 then he can move forward.

He had NO right being in the Pro Bowl, horrible selection.

[O.city]

It's not a "start over" in the secondary point. We just can't sit in press man every down. Gonna have to change some things up, if hte coaching will allow it.

[mcaj22]

Antonio Cromartie was in the pro bowl, and he's a terrible CB

[Just Passin' By]

Not sure who on CP you listened to. You need to make some new friends.

Yes Chiefs fans, we are back to square one in the secondary.

Damn it, Scott?

[ModSocks]

I never said he was DONE

But if you don't think his play this year was way off and looks in steep decline, then you aren't facing the facts.

If he can find a way to regain his speed and strength at 29 then he can move forward.

He had NO right being in the Pro Bowl, horrible selection.

The whole secondary took a step back.

Even Kendrick Lewis. He had has worst season as a pro, and he was never a great player to begin with. Why is that?

Knowing that....and knowing how good Flowers has been, shouldn't we evaluate other aspects of the defense before simply jumping to the conclusion that "Oh Flowers is garbage, we need to dump him"?

When you evaluate you look for patterns and you have to take all things into consideration before you simply jump to a conclusion.

There was a lot of poor play in our secondary. A lot of it came from players who we knew were poor players. Along the way we discovered that our D-coordinator didn't do any of these players any favors.

If next season comes and Flowers' play is worse, then we have a pattern. Until then we have an anomaly in an otherwise stellar career. That anomaly could've occurred for a variety of reasons already discussed.

But to come to a conclusion after so many variables have been introduced on a player with an otherwise proven track record is crazy to me.

[Garcia Bronco]

Flowers is the best corner you have.

[scho63]

The whole secondary took a step back.

Even Kendrick Lewis. He had has worst season as a pro, and he was never a great player to begin with. Why is that?

Knowing that....and knowing how good Flowers has been, shouldn't we evaluate other aspects of the defense before simply jumping to the conclusion that "Oh Flowers is garbage, we need to dump him"?

When you evaluate you look for patterns and you have to take all things into consideration before you simply jump to a conclusion.

There was a lot of poor play in our secondary. A lot of it came from players who we knew were poor players. Along the way we discovered that our D-coordinator didn't do any of these players any favors.

If next season comes and Flowers' play is worse, then we have a pattern. Until then we have an anomaly in an otherwise stellar career. That anomaly could've occurred for a variety of reasons already discussed.

But to come to a conclusion after so many variables have been introduced on a player with an otherwise proven track record is crazy to me.

This is my original quote:
Put on too much weight during his injury and never recovered his speed or swagger.

He isn't the WORST we got but he couldn't even make the Seattle team as a reserve.


I NEVER said he was garbage but he has been highly overrated recently.

Kendrick Lewis didn't take a step back, he has always sucked and been a poor tackler with bad angles. Why he has hung around like herpes I don't know.

Maybe playing man the entire season with all the snaps finally wore down the secondary as they were incredibly slow and as a group, too old.

Look how fast Seattle's guys were-Denver never had a receiver who could take more than one step without getting drilled. Our guys let receivers have 10 strides in the open and cross all over the God damn field. It was bad and even early on, the sacks hid the weakness. Once the sacks stopped, it only got worse.

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

What's his singing voice like?

[lcarus]

It's basically been a while since Flowers was completely healthy for a long stretch of games hasn't it? That probably doesn't help.

[Mr. Laz]

it all points to having shitty coaching

we had people defending Gunther Cunningham for years. Saying he just needed more talent over and over again.

We have talent on defense and it got worse all year long.

I hate the idea of 'giving them another year' to prove they don't suck. I don't want to experiment for another year.

Kendrick Lewis sucks and needs to go
Dunta Robinson sucks and needs to go

Obvious changes, but i doubt it will be enough if our coaching is part of the problem.

sadly we won't know for sure until it's too late to do anything about it. :(

[Mr. Laz]

It's basically been a while since Flowers was completely healthy for a long stretch of games hasn't it? That probably doesn't help.
If a player can't stay healthy then that's a problem too

[ThaVirus]

The new guy on NFL Live, who is pretty young so I'm guessing he's a former player fresh out of the league, said our biggest issue is going to be finding a FS. He referenced our inability to stop Andrew Luck from dropping bombs in the playoff game, saying a better free safety would have put a stop to that.

He mentioned Berry, saying he's played out of position at times playing the box as he was a center fielder in college. He thinks we should run more looks with him as the deep guy.

Then they went to another analyst and he said our biggest offseason issue is a "complete" (I can't remember the word but it was ludicrous) rebuild of the offensive line.

I think I liked the other guy's take much better.

[lcarus]

If a player can't stay healthy then that's a problem too

He seems to always have some nagging injuries

[BlackHelicopters]

He seems to always have some nagging injuries

Most players are dinged by the third week of the season or so.

[MTG#10]

People bagging on Flowers for his first bad season.

:facepalm:

Lets at least see how he looks in camp before we write off the rest of his career.

[jd1020]

People bagging on Flowers for his first bad season.

:facepalm:

Lets at least see how he looks in camp before we write off the rest of his career.

It's easy to write off Flowers because his physical measurements dont match up with the elite WRs in the league, which is why he can't cover them.

[Reerun_KC]

Time to move on from Flowers...

[MTG#10]

It's easy to write off Flowers because his physical measurements dont match up with the elite WRs in the league, which is why he can't cover them.His size has never been a huge problem before and he's shut down some great receivers in the past. If he comes to camp completely healed and in great shape he could match his past play...he's only 28 years old.

[Dunerdr]

The new guy on NFL Live, who is pretty young so I'm guessing he's a former player fresh out of the league, said our biggest issue is going to be finding a FS. He referenced our inability to stop Andrew Luck from dropping bombs in the playoff game, saying a better free safety would have put a stop to that.

He mentioned Berry, saying he's played out of position at times playing the box as he was a center fielder in college. He thinks we should run more looks with him as the deep guy.

Then they went to another analyst and he said our biggest offseason issue is a "complete" (I can't remember the word but it was ludicrous) rebuild of the offensive line.

I think I liked the other guy's take much better.

I think it would be worth trying on passing downs.

[Rausch]

Flowers is the best corner you have.

Last season, sad but true.

I have faith that Cooper could be really good in time...

[BossChief]

It's easy to write off Flowers because his physical measurements dont match up with the elite WRs in the league, which is why he can't cover them.on an island without safety help, you're right.

The new guy on NFL Live, who is pretty young so I'm guessing he's a former player fresh out of the league, said our biggest issue is going to be finding a FS. He referenced our inability to stop Andrew Luck from dropping bombs in the playoff game, saying a better free safety would have put a stop to that.

He mentioned Berry, saying he's played out of position at times playing the box as he was a center fielder in college. He thinks we should run more looks with him as the deep guy.

I swear, Monte Kiffen fucked Eric Berry when he took over Tennessees defense. He took the guy out of coverage as much and put him in the box, like he has been used since.

If these coaches are smart, they will go back to Eric Berrys film in his first two years at Tennessee and use him EXACTLY like that. Move him around, but you let him roam in the secondary and make plays and deliver big hits.

Eric Berry in college before Monte Kiffen (2 years)

158 tackles
3sacks
1forced fumble
12 interceptions
487 defense return yards
3 defensive scores

Eric Berry in college under Monte Kiffen (1 year)

83 tackles
0 pass defenses
1 forced fumble
2 interceptions
7 yards
0tds

Monte Kiffen has been so bad that he has been fired and demoted almost every year since, he own son had to fire him, his defense gave up the 4th most yardage iirc of any defense in history for the cowboys last year and the guy is senile...but he is an old school respected coach, so the DCs Eric Berry has had in KC (all being old school coaches) have continued to utilize him in an old school defensive approach. "Stop the run first" and haven't been willing to play him in the way that best utilizes his strengths, which are

Playmaking ability
Speed
Instinctive
Physical endorsement

They should move Berry to Free safety IMMEDIATELY and re-sign Abdullah to start at SS...then sign a guy like Antoine Bethea for sub packages/competition for the SS spot.

[BossChief]

IMO Eric Berry should be used the same way Jim Johnson used Brian Dawkins.

Berry can have that level of impact on the back end of this defense. Box safeties aren't hard to find, and they are cheap.

[Mav]

IMO Eric Berry should be used the same way Jim Johnson used Brian Dawkins.

Berry can have that level of impact on the back end of this defense. Box safeties aren't hard to find, and they are cheap.

The Chiefs could sign Whitner, and pair him with Berry.

[bowener]

The Chiefs could sign Whitner, and pair him with Berry.

This is what I would love. Hard hitting motherfucker.

[Ragged Robin]

The Chiefs could sign Whitner, and pair him with Berry.

They play the same position. Whitner doesn't fit here.

[J Diddy]

My thoughts on Flowers are this: He's a playmaker and perhaps he has lost a step but the diminishing pass rush, injury and very little help over the top could make a good CB look poor. A full season of Houston/Hali being injury free, an intelligent rotation on the D line and a safety who tackles/covers better than he bullfights will make Flowers look great. It is no coincidence that our secondary looked soft when the pass rush went south.

[aturnis]

Has trouble with the fade route?

[HolyHat]

Antonio Cromartie was in the pro bowl, and he's a terrible CB

I don't know you, but after reading a few of your comments you seem to put a lot of stock in Pro Bowl appearances. I would recommend that you not do that.

[J Diddy]

I don't know you, but after reading a few of your comments you seem to put a lot of stock in Pro Bowl appearences. I would recommend that you not do that.

Nor any stock on intelligence and the spelling of appearances....

[HolyHat]

Nor any stock on intelligence and the spelling of appearances....

Telling not spelling imo

[J Diddy]

Telling not spelling imo

wanna dance like a chicken wanna dance like a duck-elmo

[Mav]

They play the same position. Whitner doesn't fit here.

That was on the thought of berry playing more in coverage. Like Sean Taylor.

[O.city]

If we are gonna pay big for a free safety, go get one who's great in coverage.maka, Byrd or Clemons

[mcaj22]

I don't know you, but after reading a few of your comments you seem to put a lot of stock in Pro Bowl appearances. I would recommend that you not do that.

Oh, I'm sorry, next time to measure how much talent we have on the team and nothing to show for it I'll just measure our lack of playoff success or how much money we spent on the defensive side of the ball rather than pro bowl numbers, if you know, that's okay with you, dad.

[Chief Roundup]

The Pro Bowl is now nothing more than a popularity contest anymore. There are way to many alternates and such. The players on SB teams don't get to go allowing others to take their places. Then someone is injured and they have to let someone go in their place. It is very easy for a player that is 9th or 10th best at his position to make it to the pro bowl fairly regular.
Just me but if you don't go and play in the pro bowl in whatever year then you are not a pro bowler that year.

[milkman]

I agree with everything Boss Chief said here.

I've said since day 1 that we aren't maximizing Berry's potential playing him the way we do.

[CoMoChief]

overpaid.

[milkman]

I am probably alone in this thinking, but I would move Berry to FS then seriously consider moving Flowers to strong safety.

Not the ideal size, but he has always been the most physical and fundamentally sound DB on this team, and has outstanding instincts.

I wouldn't use him in the box the way they are using Berry.
I'd bring in Abdullah in the subpackages to be that box safety.

[Easy 6]

He certainly has the ability, but Flowers would have to add atleast 10-15 pounds of muscle, of the people we already have I'd rather see Abdullah out there, he really came on late in the year.

[Mr. Laz]

I am probably alone in this thinking, but I would move Berry to FS then seriously consider moving Flowers to strong safety.

Not the ideal size, but he has always been the most physical and fundamentally sound DB on this team, and has outstanding instincts.

I wouldn't use him in the box the way they are using Berry.
I'd bring in Abdullah in the subpackages to be that box safety.

Flowers can't stay healthy at corner and you want to move him to strong safety?

[Chief Roundup]

I am probably alone in this thinking, but I would move Berry to FS then seriously consider moving Flowers to strong safety.

Not the ideal size, but he has always been the most physical and fundamentally sound DB on this team, and has outstanding instincts.

I wouldn't use him in the box the way they are using Berry.
I'd bring in Abdullah in the subpackages to be that box safety.

First there is no way we are going to pay Flowers 10.5 to play safety. I don't believe we could restructure, downsize, his contract in a way that the NFL would approve either.

But if we were going to move Flowers to a safety position would the FS be where he would have the best chance to succeed? Like Woodson and others have done.

[Mr. Laz]

First there is no way we are going to pay Flowers 10.5 to play safety. I don't believe we could restructure, downsize, his contract in a way that the NFL would approve either.

But if we were going to move Flowers to a safety position would the FS be where he would have the best chance to succeed? Like Woodson and others have done.Part of the issue with Flowers is his lack of size/speed/range.

Those problems would still exist with him at FS, might even be a bigger issue.

[scho63]

He certainly has the ability, but Flowers would have to add atleast 10-15 pounds of muscle, of the people we already have I'd rather see Abdullah out there, he really came on late in the year.

You know how slow he would get with that extra weight? :rolleyes:

If he was FAST but getting manhandled, I would agree. His problem is like the rest of our secondary, the guys are all too slow!

The only guy who really showed me anything was Abdullah and it was so limited. He looked like a young James Hasty.

If Flowers speed doesn't get better, I'm not sure where he would be best playing.

[scho63]

Part of the issue with Flowers is his lack of size/speed/range.

Those problems would still exist with him at FS, might even be a bigger issue.

If he lacks speed, if he lacks size, and he lacks range, what the F*** is he good for as a DB? And if he can't stop any receiver on the line or severely disrupt their route, then he seems like he has no value.

The best of the worst always looks good.....

[Mr. Laz]

If he lacks speed, if he lacks size, and he lacks range, what the F*** is he good for as a DB? And if he can't stop any receiver on the line or severely disrupt their route, then he seems like he has no value.

The best of the worst always looks good.....
I didn't say he was.

Flowers was a savvy cornerback who made up for his lack of physical abilities with smarts and technique. If he really has lost speed then he might not be able to be an NFL level DB at all. Not to mention his inability to stay healthy and the way our entire secondary is playing so soft.

small,slow and soft is no way to be in the NFL

There is about 6 guys on defense worth keeping and the rest we should be looking to replace ... including the coaches.