Dorsey is a FAKE

[New World Order]

Executive of the year? This is the same guy who had his choice of ANY player in college football and he drafted Eric Fisher. Your argument could be he traded for Alex Smith, but wasn't that Andy Reid's idea? Sean Smith, Marcus Cooper? Those pickups looked great for the first half of the year when we were playing quarterbacks like Jeff Tuel. Dunta Robinson looked like he had aids this year, another "big time FA signing." Travis Kelce, Nico Johnson, Sanders Commings, Eric Kush? I thought Dorsey was a gm who could find value at the top of the draft.

I have a bad feeling this year and next will resemble the 2010 and 2011 seasons. We do well and then the bottom drops out.

[Red Dawg]

Really? 9 win turn around and this? Pass judgement after year three.

[Rain Man]

He drafted Jamaal Charles and Tamba Hali, and picked up Justin Houston in the third. You can't deny that type of record.

[Big Poppa Payne]

He drafted Jamaal Charles and Tamba Hali, and picked up Justin Houston in the third. You can't deny that type of record.

Huh?

[Direckshun]

I think the Chiefs have a very tall task in front of them this offseason, but that doesn't mean Dorsey's a "fake."

[RealSNR]

Jeff Tuel actually exploited the secondary a bit when he was told to get the ball out as quickly as possible.

You probably meant to say that those pickups were great when we were playing QBs like Blaine Gabbert, Tony Romo, Michael Vick, and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[saphojunkie]

Can't fix stupid.

[Rain Man]

Huh?

I bet there are some internet sites that can back me up.

[J Diddy]

I like shock value. I'm a tool.

[Big Poppa Payne]

I bet there are some internet sites that can back me up.

Dorsey didn't draft those guys.

[notorious]

RAGE

http://gifs.gifbin.com/062010/1277378257_supporter-rage.gif

[notorious]

He drafted Jamaal Charles and Tamba Hali, and picked up Justin Houston in the third. You can't deny that type of record.

Berry was the obvious pick, and he kind of lucked out on Flowers dropping as far as he did.

[The Franchise]

Dorsey didn't draft those guys.

Trolololololo

[J Diddy]

Dorsey didn't draft those guys.

You should call your mechanic and schedule a tune up on your sarcasm meter.

[Big Poppa Payne]

Trolololololo

You should call your mechanic and schedule a tune up on your sarcasm meter.

Ok. I'm with ya. I thought I lost my mind for a minute.

[RunKC]

There were a few times where Manning could have thrown deep and completed a few throws on the Seahawks last Sunday. Wanna know why that didn't happen? He got hit before he could make the throw.

We couldn't do that the 2nd half of the season..

[Gonzo]

He drafted Jamaal Charles and Tamba Hali, and picked up Justin Houston in the third. You can't deny that type of record.

Didn't Peterson draft those guys?

[TimBone]

Berry was the obvious pick, and he kind of lucked out on Flowers dropping as far as he did.

Letting Jared Allen walk and paying LJ may haunt him forever though.

[Brock]

Other than the near-meh alex smith move, pretty underwhelming beginning.

[notorious]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lms7eoctIz1qdsvrf.gif

[TLO]

Pussy riot.

[cabletech94]

Didn't Peterson draft those guys?

nah, adrian is a running back, braugh.......

[New World Order]

Not one productive draft pick this year and the guy had the first pick.

[Ragged Robin]

Not one productive draft pick this year and the guy had the first pick.

This. He brought in some OK guys in FA but nothing special. The draft was a complete wash. Reid was responsible for the turnaround, not Dorsey.

[Big Poppa Payne]

Not one productive draft pick this year and the guy had the first pick.

Knile Davis wasn't a productive pick?

Was Luke Joeckel a better pick then Fisher? I don't think so.

[Cephalic Trauma]

You, sir, just earned a nomination for douche of the year.

[Mav]

Not one productive draft pick this year and the guy had the first pick.

Disagree on that one. Knile Davis proved as the year went on to be very much worth the value.

The rest honestly, is just fodder. Weak draft, with a front office group that really didn't know what they had here already, and took some developmental guys for the future. If you don't see more out of those guys this next season like Kelce, Eric Fisher, and Commings, then people might have a point.

But in Reality, when you are getting down to the 3-7th rounds of a draft, those are roster fillers on good teams.

And before someone goes, THEY WERE 2-14.

yes, They were 2-14, with a crap load of talent, that was held back by qbs that turned the ball over 37 times, and terrible coaching.

The Chiefs always were a talented team.

I would expect a much better influential draft this year.

[The Bad Guy]

You're a disgrace to the actual nWo.

[New World Order]

Knile Davis wasn't a productive pick?

Was Luke Joeckel a better pick then Fisher? I don't think so.



I don't consider 242 rushing yards productive.

Great, so now we're comparing crap to crap.

[The Bad Guy]

We must judge this draft class strictly on 17 games. It's a must. What they do in year 2 is irrelevant when you want to be a gushing vagina.

[Psyko Tek]

Dorsey didn't draft those guys.

WTF you doubt rainman

if he says so it is so

[Mav]

I don't consider 242 rushing yards productive.

Great, so now we're comparing crap to crap.

Well, when you have Jamaal Charles, you will have that.

He also showed well on special teams, and do you have any complaints about how he played in the playoff game?

[The Bad Guy]

I don't consider 242 rushing yards productive.

Great, so now we're comparing crap to crap.

Yes, because we can just look at a stat sheet and say Knile Davis was a wasted pick.

GTFO.

[Big Poppa Payne]

I don't consider 242 rushing yards productive.

Great, so now we're comparing crap to crap.

A backup rookie rb that didn't see the ball but maybe once or twice a game? I think he was a steal.

Who would you have picked?

[J Diddy]

I don't consider 242 rushing yards productive.

Great, so now we're comparing crap to crap.



How many trimesters would it be if you were to abort yourself now?

[The Bad Guy]

How many trimesters would it be if you were to abort yourself now?

Hahaha.

[Bwana]

:spock:

[New World Order]

It's sad when the only positive draft pick we can think of is a backup RB who averaged 3.5 ypc and had 242 yards on the ground this year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Dorsey comes from the Ted Thompson tree. His game isn't about blue chip free agents so I think he was a little off his game. I still think his buying spree had a lot to do with Clark Hunt giving an ultimatum that the team win now.

He was excellent (and this is the part I care about a lot more) at the scrappy picks. I think Kush has potential to start. I think Cooper has tremendous room to grow. I think Nico Johnson and Sanders Commings are going to be decent picks, and we'll see on Kelce (way too soon to say what we have there). Sherman is a borderline all-pro fullback. We don't know what we have in Catapano, but I like that pick too.

In terms of depth, Knile Davis and Abdullah were decent pickups. Same with Demps and Jordan. And I'd say Rishaw Johnson and Rokevius Watkins played pretty solid against San Diego for a bunch of scrub backups, wouldn't you? I'd say that Ron Parker and Jaye Howard looked just fine in that game too, wouldn't you? Even Zombo isn't a bad player considering where we got him from.

I don't think he deserves executive of the year because his big pick-ups were pretty so-so, but to rip on a guy who pretty much built a backup team that could beat the Chargers... Pretty good.

[Mav]

It's sad when the only positive draft pick we can think of is a backup RB who averaged 3.5 ypc and had 242 yards on the ground this year.

Its only sad if you don't remember that the team was already loaded with talent. It also had a +9 record over the season before, didn't have a second rounder, because that was your qb, and the only other guy than Fisher, who really would of contributed much anyway, was Kelce, and he was hurt. Not exactly on Dorsey that Kelce got hurt.

Want to blame him for Eric Fisher? Sure, fine, I think all of Chiefs planet, and Chiefs fans would go with that.

But, I reality, the second round pick, was Alex Smith, and he played really well.

So Fisher-Meh
Alex Smith- far out performed a second round pick
Knile Davis- Showed great burst, and a knack for special teams
Travis Kelce- Injured.

Kush-drafted as depth
Sanders Commings- hurt

I mean, its not outstanding, but really, its nit picking to call out a front office with their first draft class.

[Big Poppa Payne]

It's sad when the only positive draft pick we can think of is a backup RB who averaged 3.5 ypc and had 242 yards on the ground this year.

It's really sad that we already had the best rb in the NFL and that's why Davis saw limited playing time. What else are you sad about?

[New World Order]

It's really sad that we already had the best rb in the NFL and that's why Davis saw limited playing time. What else are you sad about?


The FA we signed in the offseason

[chiefzilla1501]

The FA we signed in the offseason

What free agents did we sign that are going to destroy our cap or are locked in for 5 years? The only one really is Bowe.

[HolyHat]

You guys ever try posting after giving yourself a stranger?

[Big Poppa Payne]

You guys ever try posting after giving yourself a stranger?

You ever given a stranger a stranger?

[HolyHat]

You ever given a stranger a stranger?

Once, but it was more frostbite than anything. Hard to stay warm under those bridges.

[RunKC]

We must judge this draft class strictly on 17 games. It's a must. What they do in year 2 is irrelevant when you want to be a gushing vagina.

No freaking joke.

Kelce and Commings didn't even get a chance this year. And we know from Dorsey's interview that Fisher is going to be putting on 15 lbs and hitting the weight room.

These are the same clowns who said Poe was a terrible draft pick this time last season.

[Big Poppa Payne]

Dorsey Mantooth is a saint!!

[Prison Bitch]

Dorsey had the best year for any GM not to win a playoff game. Supposedly.

[JakeLV]

I'm pretty blown away the Smith trade is being put in thw in column.

[HolyHat]

http://lifecheating.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/BUuUIooCQAEqEcX.jpg

[RealSNR]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see Kelce doing shit in the league. IF he comes back 100% healthy and IF he is making the most of his offseason time to improve, there's still the issue of staying healthy and taking control as the legitimate starting TE that the team has been lacking.

I'll be delighted if we draft Ebron or Amaro. If Kelce wants to join the party as a great player, then we just acquired a fucking lethal double TE set. If he's shit and cum like he appears to be, then we at least still fixed the TE spot.

[Dayze]

I'll never forgive him for drafting Blackledge

[Dayze]

http://lifecheating.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/BUuUIooCQAEqEcX.jpg

Lmao

[salame]

this thread makes me

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Lifeandhealth/Pix/pictures/2009/3/3/1236074833250/Angry-man-001.jpg

[Dayze]

http://lifecheating.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/BUuUIooCQAEqEcX.jpg

:hmmm:

[HolyHat]

I'll never forgive him for drafting Blackledge

Now you're just being racist.

[BWillie]

Executive of the year? This is the same guy who had his choice of ANY player in college football and he drafted Eric Fisher. Your argument could be he traded for Alex Smith, but wasn't that Andy Reid's idea? Sean Smith, Marcus Cooper? Those pickups looked great for the first half of the year when we were playing quarterbacks like Jeff Tuel. Dunta Robinson looked like he had aids this year, another "big time FA signing." Travis Kelce, Nico Johnson, Sanders Commings, Eric Kush? I thought Dorsey was a gm who could find value at the top of the draft.

I have a bad feeling this year and next will resemble the 2010 and 2011 seasons. We do well and then the bottom drops out.

Actually I agree. He didn't really do anything. Reid wanted Smith. Marcus Cooper fell into his lap, complete luckballed on that one. Time will tell, but his draft didn't look amazing. Honestly, lots of guys Pioli drafted were the ones who performed for us.

[POND_OF_RED]

Schwartz, Sherman, Devito, and Abdullah were all vital parts to our success this year.

[TimBone]

Actually I agree. He didn't really do anything. Reid wanted Smith. Marcus Cooper fell into his lap, complete luckballed on that one. Time will tell, but his draft didn't look amazing. Honestly, lots of guys Pioli drafted were the ones who performed for us.

How exactly did Marcus Cooper fall into his lap?

[crazycoffey]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see Kelce doing shit in the league. IF he comes back 100% healthy and IF he is making the most of his offseason time to improve, there's still the issue of staying healthy and taking control as the legitimate starting TE that the team has been lacking.

I'll be delighted if we draft Ebron or Amaro. If Kelce wants to join the party as a great player, then we just acquired a ****ing lethal double TE set. If he's shit and cum like he appears to be, then we at least still fixed the TE spot.

Trollollol?

I don't see how anyone can say he won't do shit in this league.

[New World Order]

Trollollol?

I don't see how anyone can say he won't do shit in this league.



What's he done so far?

[crazycoffey]

What's he done so far?

SNR? Been a long time contributer to his board, provided takes agreeable and disagree-able to many on many topics, provided humor (once or twice) and spirited debate (maybe once). So the real question is, "what have you done, NWO "

[Jimmya]

Still to early to tell on Dorsey.

[Simply Red]

I agree with Jimmy. Just a little early.

[Eleazar]

A lot of people around here are going to be surprised when the #1 overall pick turns out to be a good LT, which is odd.

[J Diddy]

I'll never forgive him for drafting Blackledge

Once you go Blackledge

You never go back from the ledge

[BigMeatballDave]

JFC Its 1 fucking year. Change your tampon.

[BigMeatballDave]

Once you go Blackledge

You never go back from the ledge

LMAO

[htismaqe]

A lot of people around here are going to be surprised when the #1 overall pick turns out to be a good LT, which is odd.

If he turns out to be good, I'll admit I'm wrong.

But at this point, what do you REALLY have to base that on other than hope?

The guy didn't play well and couldn't stay on the field to boot. Horrible pick.

[htismaqe]

Actually I agree. He didn't really do anything. Reid wanted Smith. Marcus Cooper fell into his lap, complete luckballed on that one. Time will tell, but his draft didn't look amazing. Honestly, lots of guys Pioli drafted were the ones who performed for us.

This for the most part.

Andy Reid deserved COY far more than Dorsey deserved an award.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Dorsey > King Carl > Scooter

Suck it.

[htismaqe]

Dorsey > King Carl > Scooter

Suck it.

It really goes without saying but...

Better than "Bad" does not equal "Good".

[BigMeatballDave]

It really goes without saying but...

Better than "Bad" does not equal "Good".

We really have no idea what Dorsey is at this point.

[htismaqe]

We really have no idea what Dorsey is at this point.

True. It's year 1. To anoint him or damn him at this point is foolish.

[BandwagonChiefsFan]

I don't like the job hes done at Greenbay. They look even less talented than us (outside of Rodgers).

[BigMeatballDave]

I don't like the job hes done at Greenbay. They look even less talented than us (outside of Rodgers).

How much of that is he even responsible for?

I don't really know what he did with the Packers.

[Messier]

I don't like the job hes done at Greenbay. They look even less talented than us (outside of Rodgers).

Their o line stinks, other than that they have talent all over the place.

[Stalker]

@ OP, have a dose of AIDS with an Ebola twist on the house

[htismaqe]

Their o line stinks, other than that they have talent all over the place.

Doesn't really give you a warm fuzzy considering that their very first pick was o-line.

[GordonGekko]

@ OP, have a dose of AIDS with an Ebola twist on the house

What's the point of AIDS when Ebola wipes him out within 3 days?

The Eric Fisher pick has turned into a godawful pick I have to admit. Top 5 worst picks for that selection all-time it looks thus far.

[Rausch]

Doesn't really give you a warm fuzzy considering that their very first pick was o-line.

If it was Tony Boselli or Orlando pace we'd be happy. Instead we reached on a guy with the best physical tools and he ended up looking completely overmatched most days...

[Rausch]

What's the point of AIDS when Ebola wipes him out within 3 days?


It's the thought that counts...

[GordonGekko]

If it was Tony Boselli or Orlando pace we'd be happy. Instead we reached on a guy with the best physical tools and he ended up looking completely overmatched most days...

We pretty much had the worst year I can think of to have the number one overall pick imo. It seemed the top players last year were middle 1st rounder talents in most drafts. Sucks.

[lcarus]

If it was Tony Boselli or Orlando pace we'd be happy. Instead we reached on a guy with the best physical tools and he ended up looking completely overmatched most days...

Maybe if Fisher gains some strength and more experience he will be really good? I don't know, I'm just tryin to be hopeful.

[Rausch]

Maybe if Fisher gains some strength and more experience he will be really good? I don't know, I'm just tryin to be hopeful.

Look at Stephenson. Last year I would have been happy if we cut him. This year he was solid and by far our best option at RT. Probably will be our starting LT next year.

Huge growth in one season...

[GordonGekko]

Maybe if Fisher gains some strength and more experience he will be really good? I don't know, I'm just tryin to be hopeful.

That's the problem, maybe. A really solid 1st overall pick last year on defense would have really helped us and maybe given us the edge to win some more in the playoffs. Instead we took a mediocre RT. I kind of can feel the hate the OP has right now just thinking about this again.

[trndobrd]

I like John Dorsey. He would be the first man to travel to Mars if he thought there was a Martian free agent who could help the team. But to give the Exec of the Year to a GM in his first year seems more than silly. The real impact of a GM is after year three. The NFL should just now be awarding the 2010 Exec of the Year.

[htismaqe]

If it was Tony Boselli or Orlando pace we'd be happy. Instead we reached on a guy with the best physical tools and he ended up looking completely overmatched most days...

Well, somebody said they weren't impressed with what Dorsey did with the Packers.

The counter was that they were talented, except for the o-line, which is awful.

And Dorsey's first pick here was o-line.

Honestly though, we don't know how much power Dorsey had in Green Bay, so it's probably moot.

[htismaqe]

Maybe if Fisher gains some strength and more experience he will be really good? I don't know, I'm just tryin to be hopeful.

I really don't have a problem with people being hopeful about Fisher.

It just irks me when people say "he's gonna be fine" or "he's going to be a good LT" when the evidence suggests otherwise at this point.

[htismaqe]

I like John Dorsey. He would be the first man to travel to Mars if he thought there was a Martian free agent who could help the team. But to give the Exec of the Year to a GM in his first year seems more than silly. The real impact of a GM is after year three. The NFL should just now be awarding the 2010 Exec of the Year.

My original point was that if ANYBODY associated with the Chiefs deserved an award, it was ANDY REID.

[trndobrd]

My original point was that if ANYBODY associated with the Chiefs deserved an award, it was ANDY REID.

I agree. Although Clark should get an Owner of the Year award if there is such a thing.

[RealSNR]

SNR? Been a long time contributer to his board, provided takes agreeable and disagree-able to many on many topics, provided humor (once or twice) and spirited debate (maybe once). So the real question is, "what have you done, NWO "

That's all I get? I gave you people the celebrity voice thread!

What the hell does it take to get some respect around here?

[J Diddy]

That's all I get? I gave you people the celebrity voice thread!

What the hell does it take to get some respect around here?

The threeway stranger with a helping hand.

[chiefzilla1501]

I really don't have a problem with people being hopeful about Fisher.

It just irks me when people say "he's gonna be fine" or "he's going to be a good LT" when the evidence suggests otherwise at this point.

But that's just as bad as declaring him a bust already, as many have. And the amount of exaggeration for how bad he was. In the second half of the season, he went from completely terrible to serviceable.

[htismaqe]

But that's just as bad as declaring him a bust already, as many have. And the amount of exaggeration for how bad he was. In the second half of the season, he went from completely terrible to serviceable.

The people that think he might be a bust have infinitely more evidence to support their position.

You can't say he was serviceable when he couldn't even stay on the field...

[J Diddy]

The people that think he might be a bust have infinitely more evidence to support their position.

You can't say he was serviceable when he couldn't even stay on the field...

Allowed significantly fewer sacks that way.

[Big Poppa Payne]

I agree. Although Clark should get an Owner of the Year award if there is such a thing.

There used to be an owner of the year award but they did away with it in 1865.

[Beef Supreme]

But that's just as bad as declaring him a bust already, as many have. And the amount of exaggeration for how bad he was. In the second half of the season, he went from completely terrible to serviceable.

I think Fischer is serviceable. But when you take an offensive lineman with the first pick in the draft, you kind of expect dominant, not serviceable.

[RunKC]

One guy who deserves credit is Will Lewis. He was promoted to VP of Football Operations when Seattle's GM was hired in 2010 and then Dorsey got him here last spring.
I think he played a big part, especially in getting Duck Dynasty, who was with Seattle in preseason.

[Titty Meat]

I think Fischer is serviceable. But when you take an offensive lineman with the first pick in the draft, you kind of expect dominant, not serviceable.

There is no Fischer on the roster

[FRCDFED]

Dorsey has to change the entire working environment in KC. The losing atmosphere was infectious!

[htismaqe]

Dorsey has to change the entire working environment in KC. The losing atmosphere was infectious!

1) Andy Reid is as much, if not more, a part of that.

2) They went to the playoffs in YEAR ONE. The idea that they have to "clean house" is way overestimated.

[FRCDFED]

1) Andy Reid is as much, if not more, a part of that.

2) They went to the playoffs in YEAR ONE. The idea that they have to "clean house" is way overestimated.

I agree. A house cleaning is not necessary; however, they do have to identify which players are content with losing and collecting a paycheck. It is inevitable that some would have developed that perspective over time. Those have to go.

[htismaqe]

I agree. A house cleaning is not necessary; however, they do have to identify which players are content with losing and collecting a paycheck. It is inevitable that some would have developed that perspective over time. Those have to go.

Those players didn't prevent them from going 11-5 and making the playoffs.

[Messier]

Doesn't really give you a warm fuzzy considering that their very first pick was o-line.

You think Dorsey just doesn't know o-line? Maybe.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

This was Dorsey's first time being the man. Clark Hunt didn't do so good his first time out of the box(Scooter). Adjustments is the word for this team in it's the second year....

[htismaqe]

You think Dorsey just doesn't know o-line? Maybe.

Well that could certainly be extrapolated from the conversation.

It could also be that he didn't have a big say in the line in Green Bay and Fisher is a statistical outlier rather than a "trend".

[Chief Roundup]

Executive of the year? This is the same guy who had his choice of ANY player in college football and he drafted Eric Fisher. Your argument could be he traded for Alex Smith, but wasn't that Andy Reid's idea? Sean Smith, Marcus Cooper? Those pickups looked great for the first half of the year when we were playing quarterbacks like Jeff Tuel. Dunta Robinson looked like he had aids this year, another "big time FA signing." Travis Kelce, Nico Johnson, Sanders Commings, Eric Kush? I thought Dorsey was a gm who could find value at the top of the draft.

I have a bad feeling this year and next will resemble the 2010 and 2011 seasons. We do well and then the bottom drops out.

You sir are a fucking idiot.

[mschiefs1984]

You are funny nwo very funny LOL

[Easy 6]

I'm just glad someone finally straightened me out on this, thanks a mill... guess I can stop being a Chiefs fan now.

[BigMeatballDave]

That's the problem, maybe. A really solid 1st overall pick last year on defense would have really helped us and maybe given us the edge to win some more in the playoffs. Instead we took a mediocre RT. I kind of can feel the hate the OP has right now just thinking about this again.

LOL Its always a fucking maybe with draft picks. The whole goddamned thing is a crap shoot.

[Rausch]

You think Dorsey just doesn't know o-line? Maybe.

So far he doesn't...

[Rooster]

If he's indeed a fake then he is without a doubt the most life like robot I've ever seen.

[mcaj22]

LOL Its always a ****ing maybe with draft picks. The whole goddamned thing is a crap shoot.

right, but you'd think after whiffing the last like 6/7 years we would have landed an impact player with our first round pick by now.

Eric Berry is a glorified linebacker. Poe is the closest thing we got to a game changer in almost a decade of first rounders. Our best players on offense and defense came in the 3rd round.

[BigMeatballDave]

right, but you'd think after whiffing the last like 6/7 we would have landed an impact player with our first round pick by now.

Eric Berry is a glorified linebacker. Poe is the closest thing we got to a game changer in almost a decade of first rounders. Our best players on offense and defense came in the 3rd round.

It sucks. No doubt.

Obviously, you'd hope the Chiefs do their homework on these picks.

People say Seattle is great at drafting, which they are. However, there is a certain element of luck involved. I mean, if Seattle knew Richard Sherman was going to be the talent he is they would have taken him sooner.

[Deberg_1990]

None of the top 10 players picked would have improved the team any better, and 32 teams would have either taken Joeckel or Fisher at #1 had they been in the same position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_Draft

[Messier]

So far he doesn't...

Fisher is all that he ever will be? Could be.

[Messier]

Well that could certainly be extrapolated from the conversation.

It could also be that he didn't have a big say in the line in Green Bay and Fisher is a statistical outlier rather than a "trend".

Yep. I'll hold off on saying swing and a miss, for now.

[Messier]

right, but you'd think after whiffing the last like 6/7 years we would have landed an impact player with our first round pick by now.

Eric Berry is a glorified linebacker. Poe is the closest thing we got to a game changer in almost a decade of first rounders. Our best players on offense and defense came in the 3rd round.

THE best on o and D are 3rds. The Chiefs have gotten good production from their firsts for a while now.

[Sorter]

None of the top 10 players picked would have improved the team any better, and 32 teams would have either taken Joeckel or Fisher at #1 had they been in the same position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_Draft

That's some excellent speculating.

Edit: I'm also curious as to your reasoning for limiting the alternate choices to "top 10 players picked".

[mcaj22]

None of the top 10 players picked would have improved the team any better, and 32 teams would have either taken Joeckel or Fisher at #1 had they been in the same position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_Draft

I would rather have Ziggy Ansah, Bark Mingo, hell even Tavon Austin would be perfect control depth for our departing FA McCluster.

I'd even take Fluker or Lane Johnson over the RT we got, as they have looked 1000x better than Fisher this season. Outside of the top 10, Sheldon Richardson and Star is a crime that they slipped that far.

That's the problem with Fisher, he's not even going to be the best TACKLE out of this draft.

[htismaqe]

I would rather have Ziggy Ansah, Bark Mingo, hell even Tavon Austin would be perfect control depth for our departing FA McCluster.

I'd even take Fluker or Lane Johnson over the RT we got, as they have looked 1000x better than Fisher this season. Outside of the top 10, Sheldon Richardson and Star is a crime that they slipped that far.

That's the problem with Fisher, he's not even going to be the best TACKLE out of this draft.

Excellent post.

[BigMeatballDave]

That's the problem with Fisher, he's not even going to be the best TACKLE out of this draft.

1 season at a position he had not played before tells you everything?

[RunKC]

Fisher was without question the best OT prospect in this draft. If you doubt this then I suggest you watch the Senior Bowl when he owned everyone. He was far more athletic than Joeckel. Lane Johnson might be better, but I still would take Fisher bc he has that nasty streak to him.
Fisher will be putting on strength and weight this offseason. Let's see how that works out.

Also for the pillow biters saying to draft another position at 1.1, what's your plan for LT? Albert wants to be fat paid and he was hurt off and on all year. You pay him then you struggle to get more money to players like Justin Houston without making moves on other good players.

I'm fine with not taking a WR last year. This might be the best WR class in draft history.

[Messier]

I would rather have Ziggy Ansah, Bark Mingo, hell even Tavon Austin would be perfect control depth for our departing FA McCluster.

I'd even take Fluker or Lane Johnson over the RT we got, as they have looked 1000x better than Fisher this season. Outside of the top 10, Sheldon Richardson and Star is a crime that they slipped that far.

That's the problem with Fisher, he's not even going to be the best TACKLE out of this draft.

You sort of had me til Austin.

[Messier]

And the whole, we could have drafted player A, but instead we got sucky player B, Can happen for most teams in every draft and goes nowhere. I say, give this entire class at least another year. To not do so is dumb.

[New World Order]

1 season at a position he had not played before tells you everything?

So far so bad

[mcaj22]

You sort of had me til Austin.

Austin would be perfect right now for our team. Replaces McCluster and we wouldnt have to be desperate trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit for a slot WR by plicking some 29 year old from the CFL or Joe McKnight for a future reserve contract

[Strongside]

NWO: Turn your rep on you fucking pussy.

[mcaj22]

1 season at a position he had not played before tells you everything?

the original posts states "none of the players in the top 10 would have improved the team any better" so I was judging players off year 1, that would have improved us in their first season.

so yes, the judgement was based off their rookie year. The argument is are their players picked after Fisher better than him in year 1? And I'm in the argument of, yes some are right now until Fisher proves otherwise.

[Deberg_1990]

Excellent post.

ROFL

[New World Order]

NWO: Turn your rep on you ****ing pussy.


I am here to tell the truth.

[Strongside]

I am here to tell the truth.

No, you're here to provide unpopular opinions and hide behind a filter.

[mcaj22]

so all things equal right now, you wouldn't trade/swap Fisher for any other player in the top 10?

i find that hard to believe

[New World Order]

No, you're here to provide unpopular opinions and hide behind a filter.



You like the Fisher pick? We can pick any guy coming out of college and we pick Eric Fisher. Dunta Robinson and Sean Smith as our big FA acquisitions?

I have reasons to be worried.

[mcaj22]

Fisher has the exact blueprint of Tyson Jackson

picked very high, will get a free pass every year with the development and he's young excuses, will pan out as average and people will accept him for who he is until his contract dies out after 5 years and he moves on into FA.

And since Tyson Jackson is just about gone those defenders need someone new to take his place.

[KCBOSS1]

"Dorsey's a Fake?". Harsh much? You know him or something? Otherwise, I don't think we've seen near enough to make any kind of determination like that.

[Deberg_1990]

Fisher has the exact blueprint of Tyson Jackson

picked very high, will get a free pass every year with the development and he's young excuses, will pan out as average and people will accept him for who he is until his contract dies out after 5 years and he moves on into FA.

And since Tyson Jackson is just about gone those defenders need someone new to take his place.

Perhaps, ultimately as long as the team continues to win I could not care less where a player was drafted.

[mcaj22]

Perhaps, ultimately as long as the team continues to win I could not care less where a player was drafted.

I agree with this.

[Messier]

Fisher has the exact blueprint of Tyson Jackson

picked very high, will get a free pass every year with the development and he's young excuses, will pan out as average and people will accept him for who he is until his contract dies out after 5 years and he moves on into FA.

And since Tyson Jackson is just about gone those defenders need someone new to take his place.

Maybe. Jackson was a 10-15 pick reach and everyone knew it. Fisher was going to go top three even if we passed. He might be average. Don't know. He needs to add weight.

[Messier]

Austin would be perfect right now for our team. Replaces McCluster and we wouldnt have to be desperate trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit for a slot WR by plicking some 29 year old from the CFL or Joe McKnight for a future reserve contract

Wouldn't want a slot WR with the top pick.

[ILChief]

If draft picks signed one year deals, you would have a point

[BlackHelicopters]

Jury still out on Dorsey. Need more time.

[htismaqe]

Perhaps, ultimately as long as the team continues to win I could not care less where a player was drafted.

They won't continue to win if they keep fucking up the draft...

[BlackHelicopters]

Let's give Dorsey some time, before we start cursing him like Pioli

[TheUte]

Seems more fair to judge him on what he has done and the results under him, not really big on judging by what he may or may not do in the future.

So far seems like he is ok.

[KCFaninSEA]

I would not appreciate being labeled great or a fake after 1 season so I will not do that to Dorsey. As someone said earlier, the jury is still out.

[Nightfyre]

Why do people let NWO troll them?

[New World Order]

Why do people let NWO troll them?



Not trolling. I would say half of the posters in this thread agree with me.

[Baby Lee]

What's the point of AIDS when Ebola wipes him out within 3 days?

The Eric Fisher pick has turned into a godawful pick I have to admit. Top 5 worst picks for that selection all-time it looks thus far.

The stigma of buttfuckery.

[Nightfyre]

You are always trolling. :shrug:

[chiefzilla1501]

Fisher has the exact blueprint of Tyson Jackson

picked very high, will get a free pass every year with the development and he's young excuses, will pan out as average and people will accept him for who he is until his contract dies out after 5 years and he moves on into FA.

And since Tyson Jackson is just about gone those defenders need someone new to take his place.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The majority of the Tyson Jackson defenders knew he was a reach, but didn't think he was a complete bust. They (including me) viewed him as a guy who could become a good run defender and purely a 5-tech but was too slow to pass rush. We weren't that far off.

Eric Fisher was a consensus #1 pick on most draft boards. And he projected to be a good starting Left Tackle, not just a gimmick.

Eric Fisher deserves time. There are plenty of reasons outside of talent why he struggled in 2013.

[New World Order]

SNR? Been a long time contributer to his board, provided takes agreeable and disagree-able to many on many topics, provided humor (once or twice) and spirited debate (maybe once). So the real question is, "what have you done, NWO "



That's a pretty broad question. What part of my life would you like me to start from?

[Mav]

What the fuck are you talking about?

The majority of the Tyson Jackson defenders knew he was a reach, but didn't think he was a complete bust. They (including me) viewed him as a guy who could become a good run defender and purely a 5-tech but was too slow to pass rush. We weren't that far off.

Eric Fisher was a consensus #1 pick on most draft boards. And he projected to be a good starting Left Tackle, not just a gimmick.

Eric Fisher deserves time. There are plenty of reasons outside of talent why he struggled in 2013.

Agreed. Everyone knew that pioli was going to take him, and they all acknowledged it was a severe over draft.

[J Diddy]

That's a pretty broad question. What part of my life would you like me to start from?

Let's start with the assumption (and from my vantage point it is purely an assumption) that you stated something intelligent and what impact it had on, well, anything.

[New World Order]

Let's start with the assumption (and from my vantage point it is purely an assumption) that you stated something intelligent and what impact it had on, well, anything.



The Dunta Robinson release of course. That isn't just purely a coincidence.

[J Diddy]

The Dunta Robinson release of course. That isn't just purely a coincidence.

You didn't mention Dunta in your gashing of vag. Try harder.

[New World Order]

You didn't mention Dunta in your gashing of vag. Try harder.



Reading comprehension

[tk13]

Yeah, Jackson was obviously a bit of a reach from the beginning. I think some mock drafts had him up in the teens until the last week.

With Fisher, you can see the potential. He has the tools and athletic ability. Fisher's in between Poe and Jackson... but probably closer to Poe. Big guy who is super athletic and just needs to get a bit stronger and the game to slow down for him.

[J Diddy]

Reading comprehension

Oh, sorry about that. After 1 sentence my head started swirling. I didn't get to the part where you said he looked like he had AIDS. My bad.

[Snapplez]

Yeah, Jackson was obviously a bit of a reach from the beginning. I think some mock drafts had him up in the teens until the last week.

With Fisher, you can see the potential. He has the tools and athletic ability. Fisher's in between Poe and Jackson... but probably closer to Poe. Big guy who is super athletic and just needs to get a bit stronger and the game to slow down for him.

What are things that were said about Jackson for 600

[tk13]

What are things that were said about Jackson for 600

That's not true. Jackson's always looked a bit stiff at the line, he looks like a run stopping DE out there. Fisher improved as the year went on. He can really move in space too. The tools are there, he's really athletic.

[chiefzilla1501]

What are things that were said about Jackson for 600

Um... No.

Nobody was gushing about the Tyson Jackson pick. The comparisons were to Ty Warren. People thought he'd be solid but unspectacular, and everyone knew he was too slow to rush the passer.

[New World Order]

Fisher might be the only tackle taken 1.1 that needs to add weight to his frame. Shouldn't the first ****ing pick in the entire draft be ready day 1?

[RobBlake]

let's be real.. if chiefs some how got past the pats/broncos.. seahawks were going to slaughter you, and that's meant as no insult.. no afc team, hell most NFC teams can't match up against their defense this year. This draft is full of great offensive and defensive players. Don't give up on Dorsey yet.

[Discuss Thrower]

The Chiefs, and therefore Dorsey, selected an offensive tackle from a mediocre, mid-major school who was benched in the playoffs due to a lack of skill and injury history even though this was a "consensus" can't-miss and supposedly safe pick.

The fact that this doesn't trouble most of the posters on this board makes me shake my head.

[mcaj22]

The Chiefs, and therefore Dorsey, selected an offensive tackle from a mediocre, mid-major school who was benched in the playoffs due to a lack of skill and injury history even though this was a "consensus" can't-miss and supposedly safe pick.

The fact that this doesn't trouble most of the posters on this board makes me shake my head.

well the guy on the bench that replaced him is clearly way better than him. Same as Schwartz being better than Asamoah. And I hope it's a fair competition in training camp this year and Fisher doesn't just get it because of where he was picked and we have to go through the growing pains. If Stephenson is the better LT, he should start there no matter what.

I'm afraid Albert is going to walk and they are going to give it to Fisher by default.

[chiefzilla1501]

The Chiefs, and therefore Dorsey, selected an offensive tackle from a mediocre, mid-major school who was benched in the playoffs due to a lack of skill and injury history even though this was a "consensus" can't-miss and supposedly safe pick.

The fact that this doesn't trouble most of the posters on this board makes me shake my head.

I'm not a fan of the Chiefs taking a Left Tackle.

But there is a ridiculous amount of exaggeration here.

[chiefzilla1501]

well the guy on the bench that replaced him is clearly way better than him. Same as Schwartz being better than Asamoah. And I hope it's a fair competition in training camp this year and Fisher doesn't just get it because of where he was picked and we have to go through the growing pains. If Stephenson is the better LT, he should start there no matter what.

I'm afraid Albert is going to walk and they are going to give it to Fisher by default.

Stephenson was okay for most of the season. Don't know where this "way better" bullshit is coming from. He played better for a guy who was healthy and for a guy who was walking into his 2nd season, versus a guy playing a new position, playing hurt most of the season, and in a shortened offseason.

JFC. He was a fucking rookie. I hope like hell we never draft a QB, because this place is going to be flipping their shit every time a rookie QB makes a mistake.

[chiefzilla1501]

Fisher might be the only tackle taken 1.1 that needs to add weight to his frame. Shouldn't the first ****ing pick in the entire draft be ready day 1?

Weren't people on this board interested in Tavon Austin and Dion Jordan? How did they do this year? Sheldon Richardson is really the only guy on people's target list for 1.1 that had a good year.

[crazycoffey]

I really don't have a problem with people being hopeful about Fisher.

It just irks me when people say "he's gonna be fine" or "he's going to be a good LT" when the evidence suggests otherwise at this point.

I don't really have a problem with people being pessimistic about Fisher.

it just irks me when people say "he's horrible" or "he's never going to be a good LT" when evidence just doesn't confirm anything except he made progress at this point.

[crazycoffey]

The people that think he might be a bust have infinitely more evidence to support their position.

You can't say he was serviceable when he couldn't even stay on the field...

OPINION! Can you honestly say he didn't show improvement?

[crazycoffey]

I would rather have Ziggy Ansah, Bark Mingo, hell even Tavon Austin would be perfect control depth for our departing FA McCluster.

I'd even take Fluker or Lane Johnson over the RT we got, as they have looked 1000x better than Fisher this season. Outside of the top 10, Sheldon Richardson and Star is a crime that they slipped that far.

That's the problem with Fisher, he's not even going to be the best TACKLE out of this draft.

Yeah? And I would rather say I cheered for the Seattle Seahawks this year, now that we know the outcome! Any one year it's easy to pick favorites, after it's over. You can NOT predict Fishers career after predraft workouts, combine results, or one season. STOP pretending you know so much about this game! It is soooooo pretentious, errogant, annoying and OLD. Get over yourself!

And that is directed at all the arm chair GMs

[crazycoffey]

What the **** are you talking about?

The majority of the Tyson Jackson defenders knew he was a reach, but didn't think he was a complete bust. They (including me) viewed him as a guy who could become a good run defender and purely a 5-tech but was too slow to pass rush. We weren't that far off.

Eric Fisher was a consensus #1 pick on most draft boards. And he projected to be a good starting Left Tackle, not just a gimmick.

Eric Fisher deserves time. There are plenty of reasons outside of talent why he struggled in 2013.


There's also the point that Dorsey had no part of the Jackson pick so it should be questioned as to the relevance in a Dorsey review thread

[crazycoffey]

That's a pretty broad question. What part of my life would you like me to start from?

I'd be impressed if you could find a starting point I'd care about

[Baby Lee]

Weren't people on this board interested in Tavon Austin and Dion Jordan? How did they do this year? Sheldon Richardson is really the only guy on people's target list for 1.1 that had a good year.

Tavon Austin in our O and on our STs would be SICK!!!

He certainly had Indy's #.

I'm still rooting for Fisher's development, but Austin is a bona fide asset.

If he can stay healthy, I see I cross between Devon Hester and Steve Smith in his future.

[TEX]

Executive of the year? This is the same guy who had his choice of ANY player in college football and he drafted Eric Fisher. Your argument could be he traded for Alex Smith, but wasn't that Andy Reid's idea? Sean Smith, Marcus Cooper? Those pickups looked great for the first half of the year when we were playing quarterbacks like Jeff Tuel. Dunta Robinson looked like he had aids this year, another "big time FA signing." Travis Kelce, Nico Johnson, Sanders Commings, Eric Kush? I thought Dorsey was a gm who could find value at the top of the draft.

I have a bad feeling this year and next will resemble the 2010 and 2011 seasons. We do well and then the bottom drops out.

You're a special kind of retard...

[chiefzilla1501]

Tavon Austin in our O and on our STs would be SICK!!!

He certainly had Indy's #.

I'm still rooting for Fisher's development, but Austin is a bona fide asset.

If he can stay healthy, I see I cross between Devon Hester and Steve Smith in his future.

I wish we took Richardson. I would have been okay with Jordan or Austin.

I'm not a fan of the fisher pick. I just can't stand the people on cp who have this ridiculous double standard. Fisher is a gigantic bust because he didn't look great in his rookie campaign. Who would others have taken? Geno, Jordan, or Austin. Who, guess what... Didn't have very 1.1 type rookie campaigns. People rip on fisher because all tackles should be nfl ready, and yet joeckl looked even worse and he was supposed to be the safer pick.

It's not like all the other 1.1 options had good seasons. Most were really underwhelming. But unlike others, I will give fisher and all these other 1.1 alternatives more than one year to show what they've got.

[mschiefs1984]

OMG a rookie played like a rookie FIRE DORSEY

Fisher got better as the year went along until he got hurt. That's what happens with rookies folks. I saw nothing to say he's going to be an all pro but he made progress so there's still hope that he can pan out.

Dorsey signed on to a 2-14 team and in year 1 with a WEAK draft class made the team into a playoff team. Was he perfect no. But there's nothing to wine about. Chill out

[Messier]

Tavon Austin in our O and on our STs would be SICK!!!

He certainly had Indy's #.

I'm still rooting for Fisher's development, but Austin is a bona fide asset.

If he can stay healthy, I see I cross between Devon Hester and Steve Smith in his future.

If we're gonna do the, I wish we had drafted this guy, thing. I'd have taken Keenan Allen at the top of the third. He's better than Austin.

[Bowser]

If we're gonna do the, I wish we had drafted this guy, thing. I'd have taken Keenan Allen at the top of the third. He's better than Austin.

Could you imagine Austin, Allen, and Bowe to go with Charles? Christ.

[New World Order]

let's be real.. if chiefs some how got past the pats/broncos.. seahawks were going to slaughter you, and that's meant as no insult.. no afc team, hell most NFC teams can't match up against their defense this year. This draft is full of great offensive and defensive players. Don't give up on Dorsey yet.


What? The dinosaur Carson Palmer beat Seattle at Seattle. They're not invincible.

[Mav]

let's be real.. if chiefs some how got past the pats/broncos.. seahawks were going to slaughter you, and that's meant as no insult.. no afc team, hell most NFC teams can't match up against their defense this year. This draft is full of great offensive and defensive players. Don't give up on Dorsey yet.

Yet, Alex Smith won up there in 2011.

Beat them in 2012 too.

Alex Smith unlike some other qbs wont give the Seahawks the easy turnovers. Alex Smith is one of the qbs that would be seattles worst night mares. And you know it, and I know it. Stats be damned. He always made the right play, at the right time to beat them.

[New World Order]

After our losing record next season the board will be calling for Alex Smith's head.

Believe it.

[Discuss Thrower]

After our losing record next season the board will be calling for Alex Smith's head.

Believe it.

Only if he has TD/INT ratio that's substantially worse than 1:1.

I think he'll continue to game manage his way through the season with most of his starts resembling games against Houston, Cleveland, Buffalo and the first Denver game more so than a game like we saw against Indianapolis in the postseason.

[htismaqe]

I don't really have a problem with people being pessimistic about Fisher.

it just irks me when people say "he's horrible" or "he's never going to be a good LT" when evidence just doesn't confirm anything except he made progress at this point.

ROFL

The most damning evidence is him not even being on the field most of the 2nd half of the season.

Stop pretending to be cute, it's dumb.

[htismaqe]

Stephenson was okay for most of the season. Don't know where this "way better" bullshit is coming from. He played better for a guy who was healthy and for a guy who was walking into his 2nd season, versus a guy playing a new position, playing hurt most of the season, and in a shortened offseason.

JFC. He was a fucking rookie. I hope like hell we never draft a QB, because this place is going to be flipping their shit every time a rookie QB makes a mistake.

The offense had bar FAR its best performance with Fisher on the injury list.

[htismaqe]

I'm not a fan of the fisher pick. I just can't stand the people on cp who have this ridiculous double standard. Fisher is a gigantic bust because he didn't look great in his rookie campaign. Who would others have taken? Geno, Jordan, or Austin. Who, guess what... Didn't have very 1.1 type rookie campaigns. People rip on fisher because all tackles should be nfl ready, and yet joeckl looked even worse and he was supposed to be the safer pick.

Dude, go fuck yourself.

The "reason" given for why Fisher was a good pick was because tackles are "high floor" guys that can contribute right away.

THAT is why people rip on the Fisher pick.

[chiefzilla1501]

The offense had bar FAR its best performance with Fisher on the injury list.

The offensive resurgence has a lot more to do with Alex Smith elevating his play than Fisher. Fisher was part of the strong offensive performances against Denver, Washington, and Oakland too. And the first Colts game, Fisher didn't play great, but the guy who really got handled was Stephenson at Left Tackle.

Fisher got off to a rough start. In midseason, he had an insanely difficult schedule that featured JJ Watt, Von Miller twice, the Browns' outstanding offensive line, the Colts, and even the Redskins and Bills' lines are nothing to slouch at.

He has an extremely long way to go, but he wasn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be, and he clearly got better against a pretty brutal schedule.

[Bowser]

ROFL

The most damning evidence is him not even being on the field most of the 2nd half of the season.

Stop pretending to be cute, it's dumb.

Careful, you're going to bring down the wrath of Laz.

[htismaqe]

The offensive resurgence has a lot more to do with Alex Smith elevating his play than Fisher. Fisher was part of the strong offensive performances against Denver, Washington, and Oakland too. And the first Colts game, Fisher didn't play great, but the guy who really got handled was Stephenson at Left Tackle.

Fisher got off to a rough start. In midseason, he had an insanely difficult schedule that featured JJ Watt, Von Miller twice, the Browns' outstanding offensive line, the Colts, and even the Redskins and Bills' lines are nothing to slouch at.

He has an extremely long way to go, but he wasn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be, and he clearly got better against a pretty brutal schedule.

Excuses. All of them.

Tackles drafted that high shouldn't struggle, period. It's the ONLY reason to take one that high, the ONLY reason.

Horrible pick, there's no way to spin out of it.

[RealSNR]

If we're gonna do the, I wish we had drafted this guy, thing. I'd have taken Keenan Allen at the top of the third. He's better than Austin.

We're not doing that game. We're just imagining what this team could be if we didn't draft piece of shit offensive linemen and #1 fucking overall.

[RealSNR]

Excuses. All of them.

Tackles drafted that high shouldn't struggle, period. It's the ONLY reason to take one that high, the ONLY reason.

Horrible pick, there's no way to spin out of it.

"Bruce Matthews was terrible initially. Don't you want Bruce Matthews?"

/Saccopoo and friends

[chiefzilla1501]

Dude, go **** yourself.

The "reason" given for why Fisher was a good pick was because tackles are "high floor" guys that can contribute right away.

THAT is why people rip on the Fisher pick.

That's total horse shit. So if Fisher hypothetically becomes an all pro by year 3, we should call him a bust because he wasn't NFL ready? Dude, they passed on the safe pick, which was Joeckl. Who by the way, was worse than Fisher. NOBODY expected Fisher to contribute right away having come from a small school and playing a completely different position.

And most people here aren't giving reasons Fisher was a good pick. I hated the pick. I'm just tired of people treating him to this ridiculous standard, when in fact most of the players we advocated for sucked just as badly in their rookie season. Guess what... they're all rookies. So I don't give a shit how well Austin, Fisher, or Jordan did this season.

[Discuss Thrower]

That's total horse shit. So if Fisher hypothetically becomes an all pro by year 3, we should call him a bust because he wasn't NFL ready? Dude, they passed on the safe pick, which was Joeckl. Who by the way, was worse than Fisher. NOBODY expected Fisher to contribute right away having come from a small school and playing a completely different position.

And most people here aren't giving reasons Fisher was a good pick. I hated the pick. I'm just tired of people treating him to this ridiculous standard, when in fact most of the players we advocated for sucked just as badly in their rookie season. Guess what... they're all rookies. So I don't give a shit how well Austin, Fisher, or Jordan did this season.

You can't compare Joeckel and Fisher because Joeckel didn't have the ability to improve as the season progressed the same way Fisher (supposedly) has.

[Bowser]

Excuses. All of them.

Tackles drafted that high shouldn't struggle, period. It's the ONLY reason to take one that high, the ONLY reason.

Horrible pick, there's no way to spin out of it.

A left tackle from the MAC goes top overall. Seriously. Fisher looked scrawny for a tackle on draft day, and looked like he was swimming in his jersey during training camp. Shit, Tavon Austin might end up having been a better top overall pick. Hell, maybe even Keenan Allen.


I hold out hope that he can develop, but this pick to this point looks to be about equal with the Robert Gallery pick (sorry htishawkeye). Maybe not even that good.

[mcaj22]

Dorsey also came out and said the #1 pick was down to three players, they scouted three heavily. So Fisher was never consensus, like say Pioli was the consensus on reaching for Tyson Jackson.

Fisher was picked for his untapped potential, his size and his comparisons to Joe Staley who came from the same school. He could end up good but the fact that he didn't show really any flashes, was hurt, then got benched for a 3rd round pick is caused for concern. Even the other raw developmental picks like TJax and Poe were never even benched in their first years, and in Poes case he at least SHOWED flashes his first season, where you could watch the games and say "ya know, with a real coach this kid is going to be good." Have you honestly seen that from Fisher in his first year? If you can say yes with a straight face, I'd be glad to hear it. But the facts are, Stephenson came in, Schwartz came in for Asamoah and the offense got better. The passing game was better, Alex Smith wasn't being smashed by guys coming off the edge clean as much, the running game was 100x better, and the offense took off the 2nd half the season. The facts are there whether you like it or not.

[chiefzilla1501]

Excuses. All of them.

Tackles drafted that high shouldn't struggle, period. It's the ONLY reason to take one that high, the ONLY reason.

Horrible pick, there's no way to spin out of it.

I seem to recall I was making this argument to all the dumbasses who were on Poe's case last year because he wasn't NFL ready. Like Poe, Fisher came from a small school. He had to make that giant leap to the NFL, let alone at a new position. Due to new CBA rules, he had a shortened offseason and missed a lot of quality reps because he was hurt.

This year, he has a full offseason to learn. He will benefit from a full strength program which he badly needs. He will hopefully be 100% for the first time in his NFL career. He will hopefully return to his natural position at Left Tackle which he is much better suited to play than Right Tackle. And he will be a year smarter and more experienced.

I don't believe in just giving him the starting job. But we haven't come close to seeing what he's capable of.

[Bowser]

Dorsey also came out and said the #1 pick was down to three players, they scouted three heavily. So Fisher was never consensus, like say Pioli was the consensus on reaching for Tyson Jackson.

Fisher was picked for his untapped potential, his size and his comparisons to Joe Staley who came from the same school. He could end up good but the fact that he didn't show really any flashes, was hurt, then got benched for a 3rd round pick is caused for concern. Even the other raw developmental picks like TJax and Poe were never even benched in their first years, and in Poes case he at least SHOWED flashes his first season, where you could watch the games and say "ya know, with a real coach this kid is going to be good." Have you honestly seen that from Fisher in his first year? If you can say yes with a straight face, I'd be glad to hear it. But the facts are, Stephenson came in, Schwartz came in for Asamoah and the offense got better. The passing game was better, Alex Smith wasn't being smashed by guys coming off the edge clean as much, the running game was 100x better, and the offense took off the 2nd half the season. The facts are there whether you like it or not.

:clap:

[Easy 6]

All of the ****ing anger and name calling, typical Planet.

Trying to say what Fisher is or isn't going to be is pointless right now... there is no good reason to not be atleast a little optimistic about the guy right now.

He DID have his moments, he let Von Miller do exactly jack and squat among others, not bad for a rookie... if - after an offseason in the weight room and just the simple fact that things slow down dramatically for most guys in their second year - he doesn't improve... then yes, let the bust labels begin.

But jumping down someones throat for thinking things aren't ALL BAD with the guy is BOGUS... if he's getting bull rushed and jacking up his shoulder every other game next year that's one thing, but right now, proclaiming AWFUL is just trying to make oneself feel superior, IMO.

[chiefzilla1501]

Dorsey also came out and said the #1 pick was down to three players, they scouted three heavily. So Fisher was never consensus, like say Pioli was the consensus on reaching for Tyson Jackson.

Fisher was picked for his untapped potential, his size and his comparisons to Joe Staley who came from the same school. He could end up good but the fact that he didn't show really any flashes, was hurt, then got benched for a 3rd round pick is caused for concern. Even the other raw developmental picks like TJax and Poe were never even benched in their first years, and in Poes case he at least SHOWED flashes his first season, where you could watch the games and say "ya know, with a real coach this kid is going to be good." Have you honestly seen that from Fisher in his first year? If you can say yes with a straight face, I'd be glad to hear it. But the facts are, Stephenson came in, Schwartz came in for Asamoah and the offense got better. The passing game was better, Alex Smith wasn't being smashed by guys coming off the edge clean as much, the running game was 100x better, and the offense took off the 2nd half the season. The facts are there whether you like it or not.

Fisher has shown many times that he's very athletic for a Tackle. He gets up the field in a hurry. He too often relies on the wrong technique, which will come with experience. And he got overmatched, which will improve with a true offseason conditioning program and a healthier shoulder. He will also benefit from playing Left Tackle, which is much less of a power position. These aren't guarantees he'll get better. But they're definitely reasons to be optimistic.

And stop with this BS that this offense looked great without him, and terrible with him. Alex Smith was the biggest reason for the turnaround, not Fisher. Fisher played very solid against Buffalo, but Smith shit the bed. Stephenson was the main guy who got exposed against Indy in the regular season. And Fisher played very well against Von Miller and Orakpo. He went from being a complete liability in the first half of the season, to playing at least well enough that you didn't notice him. That's not what you want from your 1.1, but it's not nearly as bad as his critics want to make him out to be.

[Easy 6]

Saying Fisher didn't have any "flashes" is yet more crap.

[Bowser]

Saying Fisher didn't have any "flashes" is yet more crap.

A top overall pick offensive tackle shouldn't have "flashes". He should dominate from the jump. I don't seem to recall Jake Long, Joe Staley, or Joe Thomas coming in and just showing "flashes".

I want Fisher to be the real deal, I really do. After his first year, I have my doubts about him being that rock at left tackle for us for the next 5+ years. Hopefully he gets healthy, packs on some muscle weight this offseason, and actually becomes a left tackle somehow.

[New World Order]

The offense had bar FAR its best performance with Fisher on the injury list.



Exactly, such a waste of a pick.

[New World Order]

That's total horse shit. So if Fisher hypothetically becomes an all pro by year 3, we should call him a bust because he wasn't NFL ready? Dude, they passed on the safe pick, which was Joeckl. Who by the way, was worse than Fisher. NOBODY expected Fisher to contribute right away having come from a small school and playing a completely different position.

And most people here aren't giving reasons Fisher was a good pick. I hated the pick. I'm just tired of people treating him to this ridiculous standard, when in fact most of the players we advocated for sucked just as badly in their rookie season. Guess what... they're all rookies. So I don't give a shit how well Austin, Fisher, or Jordan did this season.


This reminds me of the ra ra speeches supporters of Tyson Jackson gave:

"Hey, he might not be good, but at least he isn't the worst!"

The only exception is he just might be the worst.

[mcaj22]

Saying Fisher didn't have any "flashes" is yet more crap.

you're right. It's us having to lower our standards for OUR NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK. Pat him on the back when he "shows flashes" like he is a late first round pick or a mid round pick. We treat our first overall pick like a 3rd round pick.

Fisher sandwiched between Andrew Luck and whatever QB will be taken first this year. Chiefs way.

[Sassy Squatch]

LMAO new world order trying to be a cheap knockoff of Clay is funny

[New World Order]

LMAO new world order trying to be a cheap knockoff of Clay is funny



I bring the truth and sometimes the truth hurts:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=270356

[chiefzilla1501]

This reminds me of the ra ra speeches supporters of Tyson Jackson gave:

"Hey, he might not be good, but at least he isn't the worst!"

The only exception is he just might be the worst.

There were no ra ra speeches about Jackson. I don't know why you keep bringing that example up, because it's a lousy one. Everyone knew the Chiefs reached big time for Jackson. And everybody knew his limitations, but thought he could become a good 2-gap run defender. They were right, by the way.

Jackson is a million times better than he was his rookie season. More than anything, he ended up being a terrific player for a defense that's no longer relevant. If he was drafted 10 years ago when the 2-gap 3-4 was still effective, he would have been an excellent pick.

[tk13]

You guys are just flat out in left field. Fisher showed flashes late in the season. He looked terrible the first half of the season, but from about the Buffalo game forward he really did play better. That doesn't mean he's going to be an all-pro or that he even justifies a number 1 pick. But the Tyson Jackson comparison is just not right.

[New World Order]

There were no ra ra speeches about Jackson. I don't know why you keep bringing that example up, because it's a lousy one. Everyone knew the Chiefs reached big time for Jackson. And everybody knew his limitations, but thought he could become a good 2-gap run defender. They were right, by the way.

Jackson is a million times better than he was his rookie season. More than anything, he ended up being a terrific player for a defense that's no longer relevant. If he was drafted 10 years ago when the 2-gap 3-4 was still effective, he would have been an excellent pick.



I never brought up Tyson Jackson before that post.

Can you give me any tackle in nfl history that was selected 1.1 and still needs to put on weight? Absolutely ridiculous.

[chiefzilla1501]

you're right. It's us having to lower our standards for OUR NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK. Pat him on the back when he "shows flashes" like he is a late first round pick or a mid round pick. We treat our first overall pick like a 3rd round pick.

Fisher sandwiched between Andrew Luck and whatever QB will be taken first this year. Chiefs way.

Look, I wanted to draft Geno Smith. In hindsight, I wish it was Sheldon Richardson.

But give me a break. A lot of the Fisher bashers are apologizing for Geno's rough rookie season. A lot of the Fisher bashers haven't made a mouse peep about guys they wanted who were also really blah, like Tavon Austin or Dion Jordan. NONE of the guys most people on Chiefs Planet wanted were even CLOSE to having the kind of rookie year you'd expect from a 1.1.

Fisher wasn't nearly as bad as people say he was. And the alternatives... they weren't much better if at all.

[BigMeatballDave]

Needy, instant gratifying, demanding motherfuckers.

Give it another fucking year. Fucking infants.

[Discuss Thrower]

Needy, instant gratifying, demanding motherfuckers.

Give it another fucking year. Fucking infants.

A quarterback deserves patience.

A right tackle does not.

[tk13]

What's funny is the prime example of a big athletic mid-major lineman taking a year or two to develop is right on our own team in Poe. You might as well say Fisher is just like Poe. Same difference.

[Bowser]

Needy, instant gratifying, demanding motherfuckers.

Give it another fucking year. Fucking infants.

There's always next year!

[chiefzilla1501]

I never brought up Tyson Jackson before that post.

Can you give me any tackle in nfl history that was selected 1.1 and still needs to put on weight? Absolutely ridiculous.

Why in the world does that matter? It's so silly. Why is it so crucial that he be ready right now? Would you rather that they laid up and took a more NFL-ready tackle like Joeckl?

Few people on CP were crazy about the Fisher pick. But there was a pretty wide consensus that if they picked a Tackle, it should have been Fisher. And the reason was because even though he was less NFL ready, he had a higher ceiling. Now all of a sudden, it's about being NFL ready immediately? Talk about an all-time flip flop.

[BigMeatballDave]

What's funny is the prime example of a big athletic mid-major lineman taking a year or two to develop is right on our own team in Poe. You might as well say Fisher is just like Poe. Same difference.

This will be conveniently ignored.

[New World Order]

What's funny is the prime example of a big athletic mid-major lineman taking a year or two to develop is right on our own team in Poe. You might as well say Fisher is just like Poe. Same difference.



How? Fisher needs to put on weight. Poe was looked at as an athletic freak coming out of college.

[chiefzilla1501]

What's funny is the prime example of a big athletic mid-major lineman taking a year or two to develop is right on our own team in Poe. You might as well say Fisher is just like Poe. Same difference.

Almost identical. Poe took a lot of shit on CP because he wasn't NFL ready. A LOT of shit.

The same arguments popping up too. People calling for Powe to start. Lots of people laughing when they said Poe showed "flashes."

It also doesn't help that with the new CBA, these kids are getting started on their training WAY too late.

[New World Order]

So someone tell me why we should expect Fisher, who was an abomination this year to be the future franchise left tackle?

[New World Order]

Almost identical. Poe took a lot of shit on CP because he wasn't NFL ready. A LOT of shit.

The same arguments popping up too. People calling for Powe to start. Lots of people laughing when they said Poe showed "flashes."

It also doesn't help that with the new CBA, these kids are getting started on their training WAY too late.



Not even close. Poe was physically ready out of college, Fisher obviously isn't

[Bowser]

What's funny is the prime example of a big athletic mid-major lineman taking a year or two to develop is right on our own team in Poe. You might as well say Fisher is just like Poe. Same difference.

Wait, are we talking about Fisher needing a couple of years to develop at right tackle or left?

[tk13]

How? Fisher needs to put on weight. Poe was looked at as an athletic freak coming out of college.

Fisher is not the complete freak Poe is... but he's a big guy who is tremendously athletic in space. You can clearly see why they picked him over Joeckel. I actually think he falls well in between Poe and Jackson... but the comparison to Jackson isn't valid. Jackson is a run stuffing DE.

[chiefzilla1501]

How? Fisher isn't even physically ready.

What? He's a little undersized to play Right Tackle. He probably would have been slightly undersized to play Left Tackle and with a full offseason conditioning program, he'll be fine.

Last time I checked, Dontari Poe went on a killer conditioning program last year. I'd say he improved... slightly.

[New World Order]

What? He's a little undersized to play Right Tackle. He probably would have been slightly undersized to play Left Tackle and with a full offseason conditioning program, he'll be fine.

Last time I checked, Dontari Poe went on a killer conditioning program last year. I'd say he improved... slightly.



You just answered your own question.

[tk13]

Wait, are we talking about Fisher needing a couple of years to develop at right tackle or left?

I think he can play either. I don't see why not. I don't think he is going to be bound by physical limitations.

[New World Order]

Fisher is not the complete freak Poe is... but he's a big guy who is tremendously athletic in space. You can clearly see why they picked him over Joeckel. I actually think he falls well in between Poe and Jackson... but the comparison to Jackson isn't valid. Jackson is a run stuffing DE.



So how are Poe and Fisher almost identical again?

[BigMeatballDave]

So someone tell me why we should expect Fisher, who was an abomination this year to be the future franchise left tackle?

Because they invested 1.1 in him. If Albert doesn't return, they should most certainly plug Fisher in at LT. Sink or swim.

[chiefzilla1501]

You just answered your own question.

He wasn't drafted to play Right Tackle. He played Right Tackle because they couldn't get rid of Albert. So if he played his natural position, there would be less questions about his strength.

And to the second point, again, Dontari Poe is a million times better conditioned today than he was in his rookie year. And it led to much better play his second season. Why wouldn't that do the same for Fisher?

[tk13]

So how are Poe and Fisher almost identical again?

I don't think they are identical. You're having serious reading comprehension problems. I said if you're going to compare Fisher to Jackson, you might as well compare him to Poe. It makes just as much sense. At least with Poe you're talking about two big linemen who are athletically gifted, from mid-major schools, and had trouble adjusting to the NFL game. That comparison at least makes sense. Not comparing him to a guy that was basically drafted as a run stopping power DE to clog the lanes in Crennel's defense.

[chiefzilla1501]

So how are Poe and Fisher almost identical again?

Because they both come from mid-majors and were drafted for upside versus being the safe pick. Which led to a rougher than expected rookie season.

Because overreactive critics on CP were saying the same shit about Poe this time last year. And guess what? He got better. You know why? Because your rookie year does NOT define your ceiling.

We all knew Fisher needed time to get NFL ready. It's pretty comical that all of a sudden this is the make-it/break-it rule.

[Bowser]

Because they invested 1.1 in him. If Albert doesn't return, they should most certainly plug Fisher in at LT. Sink or swim.

You don't throw him over there just because he's a 1.1 pick, especially after watching him struggle his rookie year. He has to beat out Stephenson for the spot, one would hope. This is still a playoff team. You don't take a "sink or swim" approach with your left tackle. Get a guy that can handle his own there. As of today, I feel WAY better about Stephenson at LT than Fisher, and frankly I'm not sure how anyone could feel differently.

[Bowser]

I'm most definitely not rooting against Fisher, but I'm not seeing him for something he doesn't look to be at this point, either. Hopefully he proves me wrong and rapes faces as our left tackle for a long time.

[New World Order]

I don't think they are identical. You're having serious reading comprehension problems. I said if you're going to compare Fisher to Jackson, you might as well compare him to Poe. It makes just as much sense. At least with Poe you're talking about two big linemen who are athletically gifted, from mid-major schools, and had trouble adjusting to the NFL game. That comparison at least makes sense. Not comparing him to a guy that was basically drafted as a run stopping power DE to clog the lanes in Crennel's defense.


He's an athletic freak!

http://yum.gifsicle.com/3de36f0.gif


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/012/917/fisherbeaten_original.gif?1376523486

[chiefzilla1501]

You don't throw him over there just because he's a 1.1 pick, especially after watching him struggle his rookie year. He has to beat out Stephenson for the spot, one would hope. This is still a playoff team. You don't take a "sink or swim" approach with your left tackle. Get a guy that can handle his own there. As of today, I feel WAY better about Stephenson at LT than Fisher, and frankly I'm not sure how anyone could feel differently.

I don't think it's sink or swim.

It's not necessarily about who's better between Stephenson and Fisher. It's about which combo of LT/RT is better. (Fisher LT/Stephenson RT, Stephenson LT/Fisher RT, Either guy LT/Schwartz RT). Again, I think Fisher's better suited for the left side, where Stephenson is probably equal at both positions. So unless Fisher is a disaster, which I don't think he will be, that to me is the best combo.

[Easy 6]

A top overall pick offensive tackle shouldn't have "flashes". He should dominate from the jump. I don't seem to recall Jake Long, Joe Staley, or Joe Thomas coming in and just showing "flashes".

I want Fisher to be the real deal, I really do. After his first year, I have my doubts about him being that rock at left tackle for us for the next 5+ years. Hopefully he gets healthy, packs on some muscle weight this offseason, and actually becomes a left tackle somehow.

Bowser, I simply feel that just because a guy is drafted one doesn't mean he's going to rule the world right away, regardless of spot taken he' s still a rookie.

Throw in his level of college competition and the fact that he clearly needed to beef up at this level and it seems pretty clear he was picked for his eventual production, his upside... whether or not he pans out as well is another question, but he was basically an OL Dontari Poe... questions about competition, questions about fitness at the next level etc.

He was an upside pick just like Poe, IMO... but of those three LT's you mention, I distinctly remember hearing about growing pains from all but Thomas.

If at this time next year we're still here talking about Fisher in this light, then yes absolutely, let the recriminations begin... but its simply TOO early to call right now, some guys, regardless of position or draft rank, just take a bit longer to get there.

Book mark this post and if he isn't MUCH better next year then dredge this up and let me have it with both barrels, and I'll cop to being wrong with a side serving of extra humble.

[chiefzilla1501]

He's an athletic freak!

http://yum.gifsicle.com/3de36f0.gif


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/012/917/fisherbeaten_original.gif?1376523486

Oh good. So now we're at the point where we're going to just cherry pick examples. Maybe I'll show a few clips of Tom Brady misfiring a pass to prove he's inaccurate.

[New World Order]

Oh good. So now we're at the point where we're going to just cherry pick examples. Maybe I'll show a few clips of Tom Brady misfiring a pass to prove he's inaccurate.



Well, pull up his PFF game by game performances.

[Easy 6]

You guys are just flat out in left field. Fisher showed flashes late in the season. He looked terrible the first half of the season, but from about the Buffalo game forward he really did play better. That doesn't mean he's going to be an all-pro or that he even justifies a number 1 pick. But the Tyson Jackson comparison is just not right.

And Buffalo, up until the last week or two of the season, were the league sack leaders... so he had a good showing early, as well as the late ones.

[Easy 6]

Well, pull up his PFF game by game performances.

PFF... whats left to say... they tell us about half the story and that's about it.

They can be twisted to fit this version and twisted to fit that version, they're basically useless in these kinds of arguments.

[New World Order]

We can conclude Fisher is a bust until proven otherwise.

[J Diddy]

We can conclude Fisher is a bust until proven otherwise.

I just wanted to inform you that, in case you wish to weather the storm and then turn your rep back on, it still accrues while it's turned off. It just doesn't show.

That being said I just neg repped you. You needed to know this.

[Easy 6]

We can conclude Fisher is a bust until proven otherwise.

No, you cant... its the reverse of that, actually.

[New World Order]

I just wanted to inform you that, in case you wish to weather the storm and then turn your rep back on, it still accrues while it's turned off. It just doesn't show.

That being said I just neg repped you. You needed to know this.



Only feminine men rep others

[J Diddy]

Only feminine men rep others

Well call me Nancy neg rep then.

[New World Order]

Well call me Nancy neg rep then.



Just have the mods change your user Nancy.

[J Diddy]

Just have the mods change your user Nancy.

I'm surprised they haven't changed yours

Master of Suckits sounds like a great u/n for you

[New World Order]

I'm surprised they haven't changed yours

Master sounds like a great u/n for you



I agree