Would you trade Alex Smith for Colin Kaepernick straight up?

[Alex Smith 4Ever]

I would not. Alex is a better quarterback right now and does not have the off field incidents of Kaepernick

[WhitiE]

Ok

[Iconic]

Why is 'neither one' not an option.

[houstonwhodat]

That's how you got Alex Smith in the first place dumb ass.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Fuck no. Hate that douche

[-King-]

That's how you got Alex Smith in the first place dumb ass.

:spock: What the fuck are you talking about?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

That's how you got Alex Smith in the first place dumb ass.

:LOL: what are u smoking?

[Rasputin]

Do we get our second round draft pick back and draft a quarterback by moving up?

[Ceej]

:spock: What the **** are you talking about?

Leave him alone.

He's not used to talking about white people.

[Easy 6]

Nope.

[Coochie liquor]

Tough call. Kap is dynamic like Vick was when he first came in to the league. Haven seen a ton of his games but it seems he lacks the ability to throw the touch pass (I could be wrong) but seems to throw a nice deeper ball. I like Alex Smith but I think straight up I'd take Kap. He's younger an has shown he can win playoff games. Although I'd say Smith is a better passer. And maybe I keep thinking back to that GB playoff game from 2 years ago but Kap will gash you if he takes off.

[TribalElder]

I would not. Alex is a better quarterback right now and does not have the off field incidents of Kaepernick

Aids

[New World Order]

Of course

[Gonzo]

That's how you got Alex Smith in the first place dumb ass.

Derp

[Ragged Robin]

Kaepernick is a rapist and choke artist.

[stonedstooge]

That's how you got Alex Smith in the first place dumb ass.

Like when we traded Steve Young for Joe Montana?

[Gonzo]

Kaepernick is a rapist and choke artist.

That seems to be the trend for SB QB's. We need to tell Smith to start raping.

[O.city]

Does the 9er defense come too?

[Ragged Robin]

Does the 9er defense come too?

O-line plz.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Atriensis spongia

[TLO]

Big boobs.

[lewdog]

Who has a higher ceiling?

[Easy 6]

Who has a higher ceiling?

Kap is Mike Vick, if that helps.

[lewdog]

Kap is Mike Vick, if that helps.

And Alex Smith is?

[MotherfuckerJones]

ROFL OMFG

[chiefzilla1501]

Who has a higher ceiling?

What a weird question to ask. I have never been to either of their houses.

[chiefzilla1501]

Is there an option for trading Alex Smith for Colin Kaepernick while slouching?

[Deberg_1990]

And Alex Smith is?

Mark Rypien

[lewdog]

Mark Rypien

a 2x Super Bowl Champ. Wow.

Will Alex be wearing Chiefs red when this happens?

[Carlota69]

What a weird question to ask. I have never been to either of their houses.

LMAO

[Saccopoo]

Kap is Mike Vick, if that helps.

So, Smith then. Gotcha.

[houstonwhodat]

Derp

Didn't SF kick Alex Smith to the curb and you signed him as a FA?

No it wasn't a straight up trade.

But SF did swap AS for CK no matter how you look at it.

What makes you they would have any interest in taking him back?

This is a fantasy thread.

[jspchief]

Who has a higher ceiling?

Probably Kaepernick. When he's at his best his athleticism brings another dimension. But I'm not sure he'll ever be top echelon. If I had to choose one I'd probably take him, simply based on potential. But I'm not sure I'd be much more content than I am with Smith.

[BlackHelicopters]

Great thread

[wazu]

Didn't SF kick Alex Smith to the curb and you signed him as a FA?

No it wasn't a straight up trade.

But SF did swap AS for CK no matter how you look at it.

What makes you they would have any interest in taking him back?

This is a fantasy thread.

Yep. Just like the time we traded Brady for Cassel.

[Simply Red]

Why is 'neither one' not an option.

Because Alex didn't do HIS job in the playoff game last season.

[jd1020]

Didn't SF kick Alex Smith to the curb and you signed him as a FA?

That's exactly how it happened!

I just wish this FO understood that when you sign a FA player that it doesnt mean you have to give his previous team 2 2nd round picks.

Ohwell, live and learn I guess. They'll get better at this eventually... I hope.

[htismaqe]

Probably Kaepernick. When he's at his best his athleticism brings another dimension. But I'm not sure he'll ever be top echelon. If I had to choose one I'd probably take him, simply based on potential. But I'm not sure I'd be much more content than I am with Smith.

THIS.

[bevischief]

Why is 'neither one' not an option.

This.

[milkman]

Kaepernick adds a playmaking dimension with his legs that only a couple of other QBs possess, but he struggles with touch and accuracy in the short passing game, and he hasn'y progressed beyond the 1 read progression as a passer, which is a concern for a QB going into his 4th season in the league.

And even with that 1 read, his decision making is questionable.

I have grown to really like Smith, but he is going to be 30, and he actually makes the argument for Kaepernick stronger with his progression.

I think Harbaugh is overrated as a guy that works with QBs.

Smith grew more in one season with Reid than he did in 2 with Harbaugh.

Give me Kaepernick with Reid.

[TRR]

Because Alex didn't do HIS job in the playoff game last season.

Totally agree with this. I mean 378 passing yards and 4 TDs with nearly 60 yards rushing...Not even CLOSE to doing your job as the QB. Who the hell does Smith think he is not playing both ways in that game? He saw the defense was struggling. A QB that does his job would have stepped in and, at minimum, played CB in that situation.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rico]

**** no. Hate that douche

This. I fucking hate Colin Kaepernick. I would prefer Alex Smith over Kaepernick entirely due to the fact that I fucking can't stand Raeperdick.

[In58men]

In a heart beat.


People let their hate judge his performance. Like most fans feel bad for Alex Smith so they say he's good lol. Manziel is a douche, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a bad ass.

[Messier]

The fact that this is such a tough question makes me think about what a strange move it was to bench him in 2012.

Those here that hated the move kept referring to Smith as just another backup QB, or another team's trash. But Smith was winning, and was the highest rated QB in the league at the time of his injury. I guess Harbaugh just liked that extra athletic dimension Kaepernick offered, but it was a weird move that I think confused some of the fans and players too.

[O.city]

I don't think it's a weird move, in harbaugh a system, Kaep has a higher upside due to his legs.

Like milkman, I think Harbaugh is a little overrated as a qb guru.

[htismaqe]

Kaepernick adds a playmaking dimension with his legs that only a couple of other QBs possess, but he struggles with touch and accuracy in the short passing game, and he hasn'y progressed beyond the 1 read progression as a passer, which is a concern for a QB going into his 4th season in the league.

And even with that 1 read, his decision making is questionable.

I have grown to really like Smith, but he is going to be 30, and he actually makes the argument for Kaepernick stronger with his progression.

I think Harbaugh is overrated as a guy that works with QBs.

Smith grew more in one season with Reid than he did in 2 with Harbaugh.

Give me Kaepernick with Reid.

This is pretty much how I see it too...

[O.city]

I think Kaeps legs actually keep him from progressing as a qb.

[OldSchool]

I think Kaeps legs actually keep him from progressing as a qb.

Same here. Too reliant on them so his natural passing instincts never really developed. He has absolutely no anticipation and is always late in his reads. Trusts his arm strength and legs way too much.

[O.city]

He doesn't have very good pocket awareness either

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You guys can have Dolphin boy.

[jd1020]

I really don't see this as that hard of a choice.

I'd take Colin and not think twice about it. You can sit here and say this and that about his passing but he damn near threw for as many yards as Alex in 92 less attempts. They were pretty much equal in terms of TD:INT ratio. But, Alex cant even come close to what Colin can do with his legs.

Give me Colin.

[Hammock Parties]

Dumb thread. Kill yourself.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You are right. It isn't hard. I picked Alex with out a 2nd thought and so would most of the Niner fans. They hate that tattooed douche.

[jd1020]

You are right. It isn't hard. I picked Alex with out a 2nd thought and so would most of the Niner fans. They hate that tattooed douche.

Just as long as you pick the right 53...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It pains u guys Alex caught fire late when it counted doesn't it?

[jd1020]

It pains u guys Alex caught fire late when it counted doesn't it?

No more than the last 7 Chiefs playoff appearances.

[rico]

I am not an Alex Smith fan. I LOVE him when compared to Cassel, but I feel we should shoot for someone better than him if and when given the chance. I haven't "settled" for Smith and I doubt I am ever going to.

However, regardless of how capable I feel Kaepernick is as a football player, I'd have a difficult time rooting for him if he were our QB because I hate him that much. I think he is the epitome of douche and I would hate to have his ugly mug as the face of our franchise. If he were out QB...I'd probably just focus primarily on fantasy football until he was gone....can't stand him. To me, Colin Kaepernick to football is Carlos Zambrano or Johnny Cueto to baseball in terms of how much I despise them.

[Messier]

I really don't see this as that hard of a choice.

I'd take Colin and not think twice about it. You can sit here and say this and that about his passing but he damn near threw for as many yards as Alex in 92 less attempts. They were pretty much equal in terms of TD:INT ratio. But, Alex cant even come close to what Colin can do with his legs.

Give me Colin.

I wouldn't say, "can't even come close", Tom Brady can't come close, Smith has very good mobility.

[Mr. Laz]

I think we are rebuilding so probably

[Pablo]

We'll trade a couple firsts for him when he's 30. That's the Chiefs way. Get 'em on the tail end of their career and over pay.

[In58men]

I think we are rebuilding so probably

Makes sense, usually you rebuild with younger players not players going on 31. Oh wait never mind, only the Chiefs would do that.

[MotherfuckerJones]

Does a bear shit in the woods? Is the pope catholic?

[Messier]

Makes sense, usually you rebuild with younger players not players going on 31. Oh wait never mind, only the Chiefs would do that.

Love how when someone wants to make a player seem older, just say how old he'll be five months after next season is over.

[Marcellus]

This is basically a yea Marcellus was right all of last off season and season thread.

Just sayin.

[Ragged Robin]

Makes sense, usually you rebuild with younger players not players going on 31. Oh wait never mind, only the Chiefs would do that.

Settle down, Smith isn't even 30 yet ROFL Aaron Rodgers is a few months older than Alex and he's considered to be at the prime of his career.

[jd1020]

Settle down, Smith isn't even 30 yet ROFL Aaron Rodgers is a few months older than Alex and he's considered to be at the prime of his career.

If only Smiths prime could see Rodgers' prime on the horizon...

[Coochie liquor]

Does a bear shit in the woods? Is the pope catholic?

I've been saying it wrong. I thought it was does the pope sh!t in the woods. That makes much more sense your way!

[In58men]

Settle down, Smith isn't even 30 yet ROFL Aaron Rodgers is a few months older than Alex and he's considered to be at the prime of his career.

Please don't put Alexis Smith in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers.

[Marcellus]

Please don't put Alexis Smith in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers.

I know right. Arron Rodgers has won 2 more games in a season than Smith.

Bow down.

[In58men]

I know right. Arron Rodgers has won 2 more games in a season than Smith.

Bow down.

Not sure what you're talking about, but Rodgers was hurt at the end of the season. Went to Chicago and won in the playoffs.


Did I forget to mention Rodgers has a ring lol

[htismaqe]

I know right. Arron Rodgers has won 2 more games in a season than Smith.

Bow down.

Come on man. Seriously?

[mcaj22]

you're a moron if you put Alex Smith on the same tier as Rodgers

and I love Alex Smith

[In58men]

you're a moron if you put Alex Smith on the same tier as Rodgers

and I love Alex Smith

A realist

[O.city]

Rodgers is arguably the best qb in the game right now. He pretty much carries a slop roster

[bevischief]

Drugs are bad...

[redfan]

Poop Taco Flambe'

[Ragged Robin]

Please don't put Alexis Smith in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers.

Wow you guys have really bad reading comprehension skills.

"Rodgers is older than Smith"
"omg heresy don't compare them"

LMAO

[splatbass]

you're a moron if you put Alex Smith on the same tier as Rodgers



Who did that?

Hint: he compared their AGE, not their performance.

I swear, the reading comprehension around here is at the third grade level.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Who did that?

Hint: he compared their AGE, not their performance.

I swear, the reading comprehension around here is at the third grade level.

mjac is here to bitch

[splatbass]

mjac is here to bitch

Like a lot of people.

[milkman]

mjac is here to bitch

Splatbass is here to bitch about the bitching.

[splatbass]

Splatbass is here to bitch about the bitching.

No, I'm here to point out when someone is full of shit. Or full of themselves.

[bevischief]

Another reason to have a 1000 post before starting threads.

[brucey_72]

I would take Smith over Kaeperdouche anyday. Kaep has the talent but no brains

[Hammock Parties]

I would take Smith over Kaeperdouche anyday. Kaep has the talent but no brains

Kaepernick has already won more playoff games in two years than Alex has in 8.

[Dave Lane]

It pains u guys Alex caught fire late when it counted doesn't it?

Yep we went 9-0 when he "caught fire" good point.

[Dave Lane]

Come on man. Seriously?

Marcellus has turned full bore troll.

[Dave Lane]

This is basically a yea Marcellus was right all of last off season and season thread.

Just sayin.

You even won that cool graphics card for all your awesome predictions.

Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

[Messier]

Kaepernick has already won more playoff games in two years than Alex has in 8.

Flacco only has two fewer than Manning in ten fewer games. Flacco > Manning.

[Messier]

I like that it's a hard call.

[jjchieffan]

Dumb thread. Kill yourself.

Such a quality post. That's what we here at CP love about you. You're in depth discussion about the op instead of dumb comments directed at other posters. Don't ever leave. This place would be missing so much without you.


Not really. Just go away troll

[Hammock Parties]

Such a quality post. That's what we here at CP love about you. You're in depth discussion about the op instead of dumb comments directed at other posters. Don't ever leave. This place would be missing so much without you.


Not really. Just go away troll

It's a beautiful day. Go outside.

[htismaqe]

Who did that?

Hint: he compared their AGE, not their performance.

I swear, the reading comprehension around here is at the third grade level.

...

I know right. Arron Rodgers has won 2 more games in a season than Smith.

Bow down.

[jjchieffan]

It's a beautiful day. Go outside.

I have been outside actually. Spending the day with my daughter. Just came in for a few minutes and was captivated by your exquisite post.

[O.city]

...

Really compared some age there.

[htismaqe]

Really compared some age there.

I'd like to assume Marcellus was trolling just to get a rise out of some people...

[O.city]

I'd like to assume Marcellus was trolling just to get a rise out of some people...

You know what assumptions do?

[htismaqe]

You know what assumptions do?

I'm just trying to be nice and get along, man. Life's too short to fight all the time.

[splatbass]

Kaepernick has already won more playoff games in two years than Alex has in 8.

Kaepernik is a one-dimensional QB. He can't read defenses, and while he has a gun for an arm he is not particularly accurate and has no touch. He needs his running ability to set up his passing. If you take away his running ability and make him be a pocket passer (either by game plan or injury) he is a less than average QB.

Alex Smith is a good pocket QB that also has decent running ability when necessary.

[htismaqe]

Alex Smith is a good pocket QB that also has decent running ability when necessary.

You're overselling his ability in the pocket and underselling his ability outside of it.

IMO, Alex is well above average once he steps outside. Not just in that he can run with it - he's better with ball placement while he's moving outside.

[milkman]

No, I'm here to point out when someone is full of shit. Or full of themselves.

You say potAto, I say potato.

[milkman]

You're overselling his ability in the pocket and underselling his ability outside of it.

IMO, Alex is well above average once he steps outside. Not just in that he can run with it - he's better with ball placement while he's moving outside.

While true, it's also true that he improved inside the pocket, along with almost every other aspect of his game, over the course of the last 7-8 games.

[splatbass]

You're overselling his ability in the pocket and underselling his ability outside of it.

IMO, Alex is well above average once he steps outside. Not just in that he can run with it - he's better with ball placement while he's moving outside.

I would agree with the second part, but I do think he is a good pocket QB. He reads defenses well, and has a good arm in short and medium passing, and an acceptable arm in long passing. IMO. Note I didn't say he is a great pocket QB, I said he is a good one.

[splatbass]

While true, it's also true that he improved inside the pocket, along with almost every other aspect of his game, over the course of the last 7-8 games.

Yeah, after the line gelled and gave him more time in the pocket he looked pretty good.

[htismaqe]

While true, it's also true that he improved inside the pocket, along with almost every other aspect of his game, over the course of the last 7-8 games.

Yep.

[htismaqe]

I would agree with the second part, but I do think he is a good pocket QB. He reads defenses well, and has a good arm in short and medium passing, and an acceptable arm in long passing. IMO. Note I didn't say he is a great pocket QB, I said he is a good one.

I think he has a good arm in the short game (good touch) but for me, his intermediate and long throw accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. Doesn't mean he sucks by any means, he's just "average" there while he's above average in several other areas.

Honestly, his biggest problem with the long passing game is his confidence anyway. The more confident he gets, the better the passing game looks because he will press the ball down the field instead of dumping it off all the time. His ball placement doesn't have to be perfect - just put the ball where his guys can get it and the other guys can't. Bowe needs to do his job too. And we need a TE and some other WRs to step up and not play like ass...

[O.city]

To bad we couldn't keep said line all together

[htismaqe]

To bad we couldn't keep said line all together

I was just getting ready to post that.

I think we all have high hopes for Eric Fisher but he and the rest of the line are definitely a concern right now...

[milkman]

To bad we couldn't keep said line all together

But.........But the comp picks O.
The comp picks!

SB in 2020!

[O.city]

Someone posted it recently, but even when our line "gelled" last year, it still really wasn't very good IMO. It was average, which all in all, is basically what you need.

Which is also why I wasn't terribly upset I letting some of those guys walk. Outside of Albert who's issues were well documented, upgrades were needed anyway

[Tombstone RJ]

I would not. Alex is a better quarterback right now and does not have the off field incidents of Kaepernick

lol, 89 morons have voted "no".

[htismaqe]

Someone posted it recently, but even when our line "gelled" last year, it still really wasn't very good IMO. It was average, which all in all, is basically what you need

Alex Smith makes the line look better than it is.

He's got better escapability than I ever realized before he came here. I think he's money on the run, quite frankly.

[O.city]

Upgraded the te's and wr's to guys who can get quick separation would help as well

[htismaqe]

Upgraded the te's and wr's to guys who can get quick separation would help as well

Ahem.

Bowe needs to do his job too. And we need a TE and some other WRs to step up and not play like ass...

:harumph:

[Tribal Warfare]

lol, 89 morons have voted "no".

this, homers and True Fans are in full swing

[Pasta Little Brioni]

lol, 89 morons have voted "no".

Speaking of morons

[Pasta Little Brioni]

this, homers are in full swing

Above works here as well

[rico]

this, homers and True Fans are in full swing

Don't forget the Kap haters. :)

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Don't forget the Kap haters. :)

His daddy must like Kap and have whispered sweet nothings in his ear or something.

[splatbass]

lol, 89 morons have voted "no".

When more than 75% of the people disagree with you it may be time to reevaluate your idea of who the morons are.

There are very few things these days that you can get 75% of the people to agree on.

[jd1020]

When more than 75% of the people disagree with you it may be time to reevaluate your idea of who the morons are.

There are very few things these days that you can get 75% of the people to agree on.

I would bet more than 75% of people thought selecting Russell Wilson in the third round was a dumb move at the time.

[ThaVirus]

Alex Smith makes the line look better than it is.



He's got better escapability than I ever realized before he came here. I think he's money on the run, quite frankly.


He is a great scrambler but I think he's terrible throwing on the run. Or I should say looking downfield while he's on the run. Seems to me he just tucks and runs more often than he extends the play to make a pass down the field..

[htismaqe]

He is a great scrambler but I think he's terrible throwing on the run. Or I should say looking downfield while he's on the run. Seems to me he just tucks and runs more often than he extends the play to make a pass down the field..

He doesn't make plays down the field very often, regardless of whether he's in or out of the pocket.

But no, he doesn't just tuck and run. He's still looking to get rid of the ball.

[Tombstone RJ]

When more than 75% of the people disagree with you it may be time to reevaluate your idea of who the morons are.

There are very few things these days that you can get 75% of the people to agree on.

unless they're morons.

[AustinChief]

I don't care what you think about Alex Smith.... Colin Kaepernick is not a great QB. Add in the fact that he is a complete and utter DOUCHE and no way would I want him here.

[Tribal Warfare]

I don't care what you think about Alex Smith.... Colin Kaepernick is not a great QB. Add in the fact that he is a complete and utter DOUCHE and no way would I want him here.

Colin is a douche, but is still better than Alex on the field which was the essential question.

[O.city]

Colin is a douche, but is still better than Alex on the field which was the essential question.

Based on what measure?

[Tribal Warfare]

Based on what measure?


:facepalm:

Dude, really?

[O.city]

:facepalm:

Dude, really?

Kaep is more dynamic with his legs and has a stronger arm. Physically, he has a higher upside.

In terms of playing the position of quarterback, he's not really any better now than he was 3 years ago, nor is he abundantly better at playing qb than smith than you would lead someone to believe with your emoticon

[Tribal Warfare]

Kaep is more dynamic with his legs and has a stronger arm. Physically, he has a higher upside.

In terms of playing the position of quarterback, he's not really any better now than he was 3 years ago, nor is he abundantly better at playing qb than smith than you would lead someone to believe with your emoticon


Kaep led his team to a SB, and was one play away from a second appearance. Plus, he doesn't have the on field hangups that Alex does when it comes to being too conservative.

Yes, your blind to the Arrowhead that Alex is wearing on his helmet to see his limitations in certain circumstances.

[AustinChief]

Colin is a douche, but is still better than Alex on the field which was the essential question.

He isn't substantially better though, not by any means. He is younger, that's all he really is, and that isn't enough to get over his douche factor.

IF he was a young Phillip Rivers then I'd have a different opinion. He isn't.

[O.city]

Kaep led his team to a SB, and was one play away from a second appearance. Plus, he doesn't have the on field hangups that Alex does when it comes to being too conservative.

Yes, your blind to the Arrowhead that Alex is wearing on his helmet to see his limitations in certain circumstances.

Using a team statistic (playoff wins an losses) to justify player to player evaluations is asinine.

What on field hang ups are you referring to? His pocket presence or lack there of? One read offensive style?

Explain.

[Messier]

Kaep led his team to a SB, and was one play away from a second appearance. Plus, he doesn't have the on field hangups that Alex does when it comes to being too conservative.

Yes, your blind to the Arrowhead that Alex is wearing on his helmet to see his limitations in certain circumstances.

Sorry, but he's also one of the big reasons they didn't get there.

[O.city]

Alex smith was one play away from a SB and carried a team from 2 wins to 11 wins the next season.


See how bad that is?

[AustinChief]

Kaep led his team to a SB, and was one play away from a second appearance. Plus, he doesn't have the on field hangups that Alex does when it comes to being too conservative.

Yes, your blind to the Arrowhead that Alex is wearing on his helmet to see his limitations in certain circumstances.

Wait a sec. Didn't Alex Smith "lead" that same team to the NFC Championship Game the year before?

You can't use that to build up Kaep and ignore the same accomplishments from Smith. Sorry, Kaep is NOT proven to be substantially better than Smith.

[Tribal Warfare]

Using a team statistic (playoff wins an losses) to justify player to player evaluations is asinine.

What on field hang ups are you referring to? His pocket presence or lack there of? One read offensive style?

Explain.

LOL, okay I'll spell it out for you

Alex has issues with playing too careful, and not having a killer instinct due to physical limitations, and being too reliant on his defense.

pushing the ball down the field on a constant basis is a paramount problem ( Bowe's lack of production) with him which he often piggybacks Charles to an exhausting end.

I could go into more adherent checkdown BS, but I don't want to considering it should be obvious enough why Colin is a better QB than Alex.

[O.city]

So basically we are at "Kaep throws it deep more" here?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Tribal that is dumb as fuck

[AustinChief]

I could go into more adherent checkdown BS, but I don't want to considering it should be obvious enough why Colin is a better QB than Alex.

Sorry man but you're dead wrong here, they are both "meh" QBs. Neither is awful (although both can be at times) and neither is a guy you count on to carry your team. Given a choice between two QBs who are in the same range, I'd normally go with the younger guy. BUT Kaep appears to be an uncoachable moron so his youth just means you get stuck with a "meh" QB for longer. So, in that case, give me the guy who isn't a total douche.

[Marcellus]

My comment was simply pointing out that as badass as Rodgers is he has won 1 SB and lost a shit ton of big games.

Rodgers has no guarantee he will win another SB. He will keep them in the hunt.

We had Trent Green who for at least 3 years played well enough to keep us in the hunt but because the defense was epically bad we were one and done so he is considered a failure by CP standards.

Smith isn't Rodgers, no shit, but you could easily argue to this point Rodgers is either an underachiever in big games or overrated.

Big Ben has won 2x as many.

Flacco as many.

Its a team game.

[O.city]

My comment was simply pointing out that as badass as Rodgers is he has won 1 SB and lost a shit ton of big games.

Sometimes I wonder if fans root for specific players or the team.

Rodgers has no guarantee he will win another SB. He will keep them in the hunt.

We had Trent Green who for at least 3 years played well enough to keep us in the hunt but because the defense was epically bad we were one and done so he is considered a failure by CP standards.

Smith isn't Rodgers, no shit, but you could easily argue to this point Rodgers is either an underachiever in big games or overrated.

Big Ben has won 2x as many.

Flacco as many.

Its a team game.

So you go on to say its a team game, but use a team statistic to say Rodgers underachieved or is overrated.

How did he play in said games?

[Marcellus]

So you go on to say its a team game, but use a team statistic to say Rodgers underachieved or is overrated.

How did he play in said games?

How did Smith play in said playoff loss? Yet he is judged here by a loss.

[keg in kc]

I think Kaepernick, and specifically the zone-read offense that worked for him during that period two seasons ago, was a flash-in-the-pan. I remember predicting a year ago that the league will make strides in figuring it/him out last season, and they did. He had a huge game against a bad Packers defense to start the year and then basically did diddly-shit the rest of the way. 10 games under 200 yards passing (plus an 11th at 203) and one 300 yard game (meaning 2 for the season). His completion percentage dropped off from 2012, his yards per attempt dropped off, his yards per carry dropped off.

All the athletic ability in the world doesn't matter as much as people want to think at the NFL level, at least not at the QB position. Because it's as much about what's between the ears and what you can do between the tackles. And unless he raises his level of play in the pocket, he basically is Alex Smith. Sure, strong arm, able and willing to go downfield, a better runner, but the end result is the same for all intents and purposes.

[milkman]

LOL, okay I'll spell it out for you

Alex has issues with playing too careful, and not having a killer instinct due to physical limitations, and being too reliant on his defense.

pushing the ball down the field on a constant basis is a paramount problem ( Bowe's lack of production) with him which he often piggybacks Charles to an exhausting end.

I could go into more adherent checkdown BS, but I don't want to considering it should be obvious enough why Colin is a better QB than Alex.

You are, without question, the single dumbest motherfucker here.

Your mother should have swallowed to save the family from embarrasment.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I thought I was rude, but milfman just lay the smacketh down!!!

[ThaVirus]

I'd honestly thought I'd heard it all after Discuss Thrower suggested trading Justin Houston but now we have motherfuckers saying Alex Smith has "physical limitations".

He doesn't have physical limitations. He was the fucking #1 overall pick.

Russel Wilson has physical limitations. Chad Pennington had physical limitations.

Damn it, people. Think!!!

[Jakemall]

I find it amazing that 75% of this board likes Alex over Colin.

[splatbass]

I find it amazing that 75% of this board likes Alex over Colin.

I don't. Alex Smith performed well for us last year. And he has no off field problems, or ego problems. Kaep is one knee injury away from being a below average QB, because running is his main asset as a QB.

[Molitoth]

No. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a qb who's main strength is running.

[keg in kc]

So you go on to say its a team game, but use a team statistic to say Rodgers underachieved or is overrated.

How did he play in said games?Here you go, since I'm assuming you received a deflection instead of an answer:

1/5/14 (road loss 20-23 @ SF): 17-26 (65.4%) for 177 yards and 1 TD. QBR 57.6. QB rating 97.8.

1/5/13 (home win 24-10 vs MIN): 23-33 (69.7%) for 274 yards and 1 TD. QBR 72.6. QB rating 104.9.
1/12/13 (road loss 31-45 @ SF): 26-39 (66.7%) for 257 yards, 2 TD and 1 INT. QBR 68.3. QB rating 91.5.

1/15/12 (home loss 20-37 vs NYG): 26-46 (56.5%) for 264 yards, 2 TD and 1 INT. QBR 69.1. QB rating 78.5.

1/9/11 (road win 21-16 @ PHI): 18-27 (66.7%) for 180 yards and 3 TD. QBR 58.6. QB rating 122.5.
1/15/11 (road win 48-21 @ ATL): 31-36 (86.1%) for 366 yards and 3 TD. QBR 90.1. QB rating 136.8.
1/23/11 (road win 21-14 @ CHI): 17-23 (56.7%) for 244 yards, 0 TD and 2 INT. QBR 72.4. QB rating 55.4.
2/6/11 (Superbowl win 31-24 vs PIT): 24-39 (61.5%) for 304 yards and 3 TD. 75.4 QBR. 111.5 QB rating. (Superbowl MVP)

1/10/10 (road loss 45-51 (OT) @ ARI): 38-42 (66.7%) for 423 yards, 4 TD and 1 INT. QBR 85.6. QB rating 121.4.

So, he never finished with a total QBR below 50 (which is an "average" game according to the system). 7 out of 9 games he finished with an old school QB rating over 90 (5 over 100). 7 out of 9 games he finished with 250 or more yards passing (3 over 300). 6 out of 9 games he completed 65% or more of his passes. 5 out of 9 games he threw zero interceptions (he threw more picks than TDs just once).

Yeah. That doesn't read much like underachievement.

[Dylan]

On Kaepernick, I think the trouble for SF once CK gets inside the opponents 20, seems to become rattled. He has on-going troubles with the play clock, undecided at the line trying to figure out where all the defenders are in space.

SF had a dominating performance vs. Carolina – However, they came away with too many FGs when they should have had TDs. SF always seem to have too many FG when they need TDs. In addition, that was over the entire season.

During the playoffs – SF had seven FGs, three TDs in three playoff games…that is an issue.


Just my opinion

[Kaepernick]

Kaepernick's floor is Alex's ceiling. You would have to be crazy to go with Alex rather than see how Kap develops over this year. He came out raw from a gimmick offense and has only started 32 games.

In his 3 year career, he has only had 1 training camp. There was no training camp in his rookie year. In his sophomore year, the focus was all on Developing Alex Smith. In his 3rd year, he was the undisputed starter and finally got a camp where he practiced exclusively with the 1st team.

Meanwhile, in those 3 years, what has he done?

Gone to the super bowl.

Gone to the NFCC game twice.

The first 49ers QB to win back-to-back road playoff games.

Holds the 49ers record for most road playoff wins in a season.

Holds the super bowl record for longest rushing TD for a QB.

Holds the NFL all time record for most rushing yards from scrimmage by an NFL QB, and a playoff game at that.

Longest run from scrimmage in a playoff game.

25 TDs to only 8 interceptions.

Engineered the biggest comeback win in the 48-year history of the NFC Championship game.

Kaepernick is the 5th most accurate deep passing QB in the NFL. That in itself is meaningless, but it shows his potential. It is easier to learn the short game than it is to grow a rocket for an arm.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039

Yes, much of this comes from his legs because he is still developing as a pocket passer. In his first year starting, 2012, they babied him and had less on his shoulders as a pocket passer, letting him freelance more.

In 2013, they made him stay in the pocket and run less in the regular season. He struggled. I don't know if it was sophomore slump or lack of receiving weapons with Crabtree and Patton gone most of the year or what.

Without a doubt he is not a great passer, but the potential is there, from being able to fire a 60 yard pass accurately on a rope, to showing a willingness to throw into tiny windows.

His short game is poor and needs development. He is in love with the deep pass and is poor at taking the check down and hot read, sticking with the deep pass too long.

He has a LONG way to go to develop a great passing game. But the potential is there, because the intelligence, work ethic, drive and coaching are there. About the only thing I can question is how well he sees the field. Does he fail to see his 2nd and 3rd reads, or is he coached to stay with his 1st read? I don't know? I don't know how he is being coached as a young QB of 32 starts.

The elite potential is there. I will take a promising young QB with elite potential any day over a solid middle-tier veteran.

Forget Alex vs Kap.

What if this was, would you take Carson Palmer over Matthew Stafford. Palmer used to be a nearly elite QB himself when he was in his prime matched with Chad Johnson. He is still a savvy veteran who can win games with a good supporting cast. But Stafford has much more potential. He makes a lot of mistakes and takes foolish risks, which is probably more due to bad coaching than the man himself.

There is no planet on which I take a solid mid-level workman over a young QB with high potential just because he hasn't attained that potential in 32 starts.

[Dylan]

Lucky, you have that great defense.

[Kaepernick]

Sorry man but you're dead wrong here, they are both "meh" QBs. Neither is awful (although both can be at times) and neither is a guy you count on to carry your team. Given a choice between two QBs who are in the same range, I'd normally go with the younger guy. BUT Kaep appears to be an uncoachable moron so his youth just means you get stuck with a "meh" QB for longer. So, in that case, give me the guy who isn't a total douche.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed one. :LOL: :thumb:

[Kaepernick]

Lucky, you have that great defense.

Remind me how you went undefeated through 9 games.

[Dylan]

Remind me how you went undefeated through 9 games.

After you remind me how YOU had it better than us!

Checkmate...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Oh great Kap ' s butt buddy is bback.This place REALLY needs another buffoon.

[Kaepernick]

After you remind me how YOU had it better than us!

Checkmate...

Of course we had it better. We are a better organization with a better owner, better GM, better head coach, better players and better QB.

I'm not going to deny the obvious. The only thing you had better was one of the weakest schedules last year.

At least you guys are on the right track now with a solid Head coach and GM. Now if only you could trade in your owner for somebody serious about winning a championship, you would be set.

[Dylan]

Of course we had it better. We are a better organization with a better owner, better GM, better head coach, better players and better QB.

I'm not going to deny the obvious. The only thing you had better was one of the weakest schedules last year.

At least you guys are on the right track now with a solid Head coach and GM. Now if only you could trade in your owner for somebody serious about winning a championship, you would be set.

Not to disrespect your tinfoil hat - But heck of a straw man you threw together there.

[Kaepernick]

Not to disrespect your tinfoil hat - But heck of a straw man you threw together there.

I was half joking. You took it fully seriously.

Internet communication is next to impossible without nuance, vocal inflection, eye contact and body language. No wonder we are at blows so often.

[brucey_72]

Also how people keep saying Kaep has a stronger arm than Alex, I watched every single 49ers game last season and he rarely throws it deep and when he does it is inaccurate half the time. He spends most of his time trying to figure out if he should run or pass. He will stand there with a clean 10 yards in front of him and bounce until the gap is closed and normally ends up with a sack or 2 yard gain.

He runs when he has someone open but hesitates to run when no one is open and has a clear a run way. I sit there and spend most of my time screaming at the TV for him to make a decision.

He is also terrible in the red zone. I know the moment he gets inside the 10 yard line it will be a FG.

[bevischief]

Oh great Kap ' s butt buddy is bback.This place REALLY needs another buffoon.

:doh!:

[Jakemall]

Kaepernick's floor is Alex's ceiling. You would have to be crazy to go with Alex rather than see how Kap develops over this year. He came out raw from a gimmick offense and has only started 32 games.



This statement has already been proven false..so why go into the rest of your post?

Alex performed better in 2012 than Kap did in 2013. Alex performed better in 2013 once he got the playbook down and developed some chemistry with the other players...and arguably did it with less offensive talent than Kap had.

So, Kap's floor is not Alex's ceiling. No questioning Kap is talented..but your statement is unmitigated bullshit.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Plus tattoo boy is a moron not learning from Sherman owning his ass.

[KCSLC2008]

Kaepernick's floor is Alex's ceiling.

The rest of your post was fine. But this is not true. Last year was Kaepernick's floor. Some argue that Smith had a better year (citing 2013 second half performance) and the Niners team overall was better. I won't argue that, but I believe that this next year will be higher than Kaepernick's last year. I'm not just talking about stats. Reid is getting Smith to pass more than he's ever done and he has and will take more deep shots than he did with Harbaugh while maintaining his low interceptions.

Have gotten to know you as a poster a little bit over the last year and I think you're reasonable. I think that statement was little bit exaggerated. I'm not saying Smith > Kaepernick or arguing upside or youth.

[KCSLC2008]

Oops, I didn't see Jakemall's response to your post. I didn't even think about using 2012 against your statement. Note, we're not talking about who's better. Just ceiling and floor.

[temper11]

What a weird question to ask. I have never been to either of their houses.

I actually laughed out loud. I didn't just type lol... actually laughed and people said... what?

[Sandy Vagina]

This statement has already been proven false..so why go into the rest of your post?

Alex performed better in 2012 than Kap did in 2013. Alex performed better in 2013 once he got the playbook down and developed some chemistry with the other players...and arguably did it with less offensive talent than Kap had.

So, Kap's floor is not Alex's ceiling. No questioning Kap is talented..but your statement is unmitigated bullshit.

THis. I can see where Kaep could potentially be better one day... just due to his physical abilities and arm strength. As of now though, Alex is the superior passer, and handles crucial drives better. Kaep may put it all together, or he may regress even further. I'd not like to take that chance, IF it were about choosing one or the other to lead my team that is ready for playoff contention today.

[Eleazar]

Alex Smith is good enough right now and probably will be for 2-3 more seasons. Krap might be good enough one day, but he isn't at the moment, and he doesn't seem to be the squeaky-clean high character guy that he was originally sold as.

[Kaepernick]

Alex Smith is good enough right now and probably will be for 2-3 more seasons. Krap might be good enough one day, but he isn't at the moment, and he doesn't seem to be the squeaky-clean high character guy that he was originally sold as.

There is not a scintilla of evidence that Kap is not the squeaky clean high character guy I think he is.


From Rotoworld:


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6530/colin-kaepernick


"Per the report, it was Ricardo Lockette who called the police after the woman reportedly refused to leave his apartment. The police then called a "crisis intervention team ," which deals with calls "involving people with mental illness including those with co-occurring substance use disorders." It's appearing less and less likely that any of Kaepernick, Lockette or Quinton Patton will be charged with a crime. Apr 14 - 5:15 PM"


So Lockette called the police when the woman refused to leave his apartment, and Kaepernick was already gone by then. The boys called the cops on the crazy chick.

Much ado about nothing. People are so quick to judge.

[htismaqe]

THis. I can see where Kaep could potentially be better one day... just due to his physical abilities and arm strength. As of now though, Alex is the superior passer, and handles crucial drives better. Kaep may put it all together, or he may regress even further. I'd not like to take that chance, IF it were about choosing one or the other to lead my team that is ready for playoff contention today.

This team isn't ready for playoff contention. Have to wait until 2015.

[temper11]

Kaepernick has already won more playoff games in two years than Alex has in 8.

Ok... but Kaep stepped onto the field surrounded by a superbowl-ready team.

[Sandy Vagina]

This team isn't ready for playoff contention. Have to wait until 2015.

You could be right... or you could just be a quitter.. again.

Will be fun to watch this season either way! :)

[temper11]

Yeah, after the line gelled and gave him more time in the pocket he looked pretty good.

I wonder how many games it will take for our new line to gel? :(

[htismaqe]

You could be right... or you could just be a quitter.. again.

Will be fun to watch this season either way! :)

Of course, those weren't my words.

Those were the words of people defending this offseason's personnel "plan".

Oops.

[Kaepernick]

Also how people keep saying Kaep has a stronger arm than Alex, I watched every single 49ers game last season and he rarely throws it deep and when he does it is inaccurate half the time. He spends most of his time trying to figure out if he should run or pass. He will stand there with a clean 10 yards in front of him and bounce until the gap is closed and normally ends up with a sack or 2 yard gain.

He runs when he has someone open but hesitates to run when no one is open and has a clear a run way. I sit there and spend most of my time screaming at the TV for him to make a decision.

He is also terrible in the red zone. I know the moment he gets inside the 10 yard line it will be a FG.



That bullshit about Kap's arm and deep accuracy is about as weak an attempt at spreading bullshit nonsense as I can remember.


Arm strength

When did Alex throw a football 60 mph at the combine? Kaepernick did.



Deep Passing Accuracy


Kaepernick was the 2nd most accurate deep passer in the NFL last year, behind Russell Wilson.


http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8mlnjJpP--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/198inctjf4zbyjpg.jpg



Deep Passing Frequency


Kaepernick was the 3rd most frequent deep passer in the NFL. Not3 Alex's rank of 31st.


http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1_CmP5p2--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/198incdrbz7dojpg.jpg



Source:

http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039


Alex vs. Kaepernick. Kaepernic, and it isn't even close. Kaepernick's floor is Alex's ceiling.

[Kaepernick]

The rest of your post was fine. But this is not true. Last year was Kaepernick's floor. Some argue that Smith had a better year (citing 2013 second half performance) and the Niners team overall was better. I won't argue that, but I believe that this next year will be higher than Kaepernick's last year. I'm not just talking about stats. Reid is getting Smith to pass more than he's ever done and he has and will take more deep shots than he did with Harbaugh while maintaining his low interceptions.

Have gotten to know you as a poster a little bit over the last year and I think you're reasonable. I think that statement was little bit exaggerated. I'm not saying Smith > Kaepernick or arguing upside or youth.

I am happy to clarify what I mean. And this is just my opinion, so it will take another 2 years to test if I am right or wrong.

When I say Alex's ceiling is Kaepernick's floor, I mean that Alex and Kaepernick have been comparably effective QBs since 2011, with Alex about done developing, while Kaepernick has enormous room to fill out his ultimate potential.

Alex is 98% done developing and what you have with him is what you get. Neither performance nor skill level will leap up substantially from here. QBs develop their entire careers, but he is approaching a limit to his ultimate development.

I believe Colin Kaepernick has elite potential. He struggled and was poor often as a pocket passer last year. I know he came out of Nevada pretty raw and know he was going to take longer to develop than an Andrew Luck or Russell Wilson, who both came from pro-type programs in college. Every QB needs development in the NFL, but Kaepernick needed remedial coaching just to get what Luck and Wilson got in college.

So I am predicting a leap in Kaepernick's performance going forward. Here is where most will laugh me off this forum. Colin is very intelligent, very coachable, is driven, has insane work ethic, and has a QB guru in Jim Harbaugh to groom him, personally if need be.

That tells me that Kaepernick will eventually become an elite pocket passer along the lines of a Drew Brees.

Like I said, nobody on this forum can see that. They all think he is a running QB that will never learn to pass the ball, Another Mike Vick or Kordell Stewart.

I saw Steve Young's development in real time, and I can tell you that he was a bad passer when he came to Tampa Bay, and it was only Bill Walsh's coaching that was able to take his intelligence and drive and work ethic, and make him into an elite pocket passer.

I am convinced Jim Harbaugh will do for Colin Kaepernick what Bill Walsh did for Steve Young. If Kaepernick is still struggling with reads and progressions and still bailing from a clean pocket to run, at the end of 2014, then I'll start to worry.

About my only concern at this time is his ability to see the field. Jim Harbaugh just said that Johnny Manziel sees the field better than any college QB he has ever seen. About my only concern is how well Kaepernick is seeing the field, because he doesn't seem to see the field very well. He certainly fails to read progressions from sideline to sideline. But the jury is out on that. Steve Young said that pretty much every young QB has to learn how to read the field from sideline to sideline. Kaepernick is definitely struggling more than most young QBs with that.

A full year with Crabtree, Boldin and Vernon Davis on the field will prove that one way or another. He will have no more excuses as a developing pocket passer if he is still struggling at the end of 2014 after a full year with those 3.

So my claim that "Kaepernick's floor is Alex's ceiling" stems from my belief is that both QBs are about equally effective today, but Alex is virtually done developing while Kaepernick will develop into an elite pocket passer, with his legs making him an elite dual-threat weapon that can put a team on his shoulders.

Only time will tell how wrong I am. This is why I am on record saying I wouldn't trade Kaepernick for any QB in the NFL except Andrew Luck, and maybe Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is elite and Luck is lock to be. Brady and Manning are old and almost out with Brees right behind them. There isn't a developing QB in the league I would want over Kaepernick except for Andrew Luck. And I've just explained why in this post.

[Kaepernick]

THis. I can see where Kaep could potentially be better one day... just due to his physical abilities and arm strength. As of now though, Alex is the superior passer, and handles crucial drives better. Kaep may put it all together, or he may regress even further. I'd not like to take that chance, IF it were about choosing one or the other to lead my team that is ready for playoff contention today.

Just out of curiosity, are you aware that the Kaepernick lead 49ers hold the NFL record for largest comeback in the history of the NFC NFC championship game?

Alex is the superior passer?

I would post stats but I don't need to. How many yards did Alex amass on passes to Jamaal Charles behind the line of scrimmage? I'm not knocking Andy Reid's strategy to have Alex put the ball in the hands of your top offensive playmaker. That is good strategy.

I'm just trying to remind you that a good chunk of your total passing yards last year came off passes to Charles behind the LOS that any serviceable QB could make. I have never seen Alex complete a pass like this one below, but if I just missed it, feel free to post it. Alex would never even attempt such a throw with a WR covered like that.

Beautiful pocket presence by Kap as well, something he is often unjustly knocked for.

Which is not to say I have never seen Alex make a great pass. The winning TD pass to Vernon Davis against the Saints in the 2011 Divisional game was a great pass by Alex.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IMw1GMS0h8M?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[temper11]

Alex is 98% done developing and what you have with him is what you get. Neither performance nor skill level will leap up substantially from here. QBs develop their entire careers, but he is approaching a limit to his ultimate development.

This is what I don't get. Why does everyone think they know when Smith is done developing? Yeah he's been in the league a long time.... but people were saying he was done developing prior to the 2011 season as well. And they were saying it a lot. Then the niners got an actual coaching staff, that had a game plan, and he took a huge step forward. Everyone said that was the "best he could do and no more". Then he was even better in 2012 before his concussion. Again people said... "that's it, that's his ceiling". Then he goes to a 2 win team and his numbers improve again - and that with all the challenges that go into being in a new system with new teammates and new... everything.

Again... this upcoming season will only be the 2nd time in his entire career in which he has the same OC from the previous year. Prior to 2011, he'd only had one season in which he started in more than 10 games. The other years were a mess of QB carousels in which a team can't possibly hope to gain any kind of continuity - or he was out for an entire season with an injury to his throwing shoulder. An injury that was originally completely mis-diagnosed forcing Smith to play through considerable pain for much of the previous season - and is most likely the reason people have the misconception that he has a weak throwing arm.

I have no idea what his ceiling is, I don't think anyone can know. He was so mis-used for so long, he is basically just now getting the opportunity to see what the **** he can do.

[Sandy Vagina]

to Kaepernick

didn't read, lolz... crawl on back to your SF board, Kaeperdicksucka.

http://i.imgur.com/0NF1WaG.gif




( mostly kidding, I don't really care about this particular "debate" )

[temper11]

This is why I am on record saying I wouldn't trade Kaepernick for any QB in the NFL except Andrew Luck, and maybe Aaron Rodgers.

Harbernick? Is that you?

[htismaqe]

( mostly kidding, I don't really care about this particular "debate" )

ROFL

[Kaepernick]

I am very long winded. For the TL;DR crowd, I'll summarize why Kaepernic's floor is Alex's ceiling.

Both quarterbacks are mid-tier QBs at this time with about equal effectiveness.

Alex Smith is not going to improve dramatically from this time on. Andy will teach him a few new tricks and he will improve incrementally. He is not going to drastically improve his deep and intermediate passing game, without which he can't rise to the next level. He is about what he is.

Kaepernick has elite potential, and I believe he will reach it.

Jim Harbaugh has the knowledge, approach, and technical coaching ability to install everything into Kaepernick that he needs to become a proficient pocket passer. Kaepernick has the skill set, mind, attitude and work ethic to absorb it all and drill to master it. Match made in heaven.

Only some key weakness in Kaepernick will prevent his dramatic improvement over the next 2 years. I don't see that key weakness. He is called a one-read QB, yet their are times he has successfully gone through his progressions. I see it as a young QB still trying to catch up to the speed of the NFL game. That will come.

Kaepernick has a terrible short passing game and refuses to check down because he is too in love with the big play. That is coachable. It is easier to teach a smart strong-armed QB the short passing game, than it is to make a risk-averse QB willing to attack DBs and to throw deep passes into small windows.

Kaepernick and Smith have been equally effective since Kaepernick beat the Bears in his 1st start on Monday night football. Alex has virtually plateaued. Kaepernick has nowhere to go but up -- way up.

Kaepernick's floor therefore is Alex's ceiling. They are roughly equal now, with differing strengths and weaknesses. Alex will never pass Kaepernick as a better QB.

That is what I mean.

[Kaepernick]

Harbernick? Is that you?

Who do you think? Of course. I told everybody on the 49ers forum I am Kaepernick over here.

[Kaepernick]

to Kaepernick

didn't read, lolz... crawl on back to your SF board, Kaeperdicksucka.

http://i.imgur.com/0NF1WaG.gif




( mostly kidding, I don't really care about this particular "debate" )


I don't know why fans of any of the other 31 teams would care about the 49ers or Kaepernick. It's a Kap thread, so I get to spout off. That is what Chief Planet gets for inviting just any old vermin off the street. :D

[temper11]

I would post stats but I don't need to. How many yards did Alex amass on passes to Jamaal Charles behind the line of scrimmage? I'm not knocking Andy Reid's strategy to have Alex put the ball in the hands of your top offensive playmaker. That is good strategy.

I'm just trying to remind you that a good chunk of your total passing yards last year came off passes to Charles behind the LOS that any serviceable QB could make.

They threw a lot of passes behind the Line of Scrimmage because the oline was weak and they were getting Charles out in space. They were using that short pass as basically a running play. I honestly don't think it worked all that well. I thought Charles did better in between the tackles which is why you saw less of that in the second half of the season. What your illustration does do however, is completely negate your previous post in which you show Smith at the bottom for percentage of deep balls thrown. That percentage obviously falls dramatically when you are using short passes behind the LOS as your running game. That's why, as Justin Smith says, "Stats are for pussies".

I have never seen Alex complete a pass like this one below, but if I just missed it, feel free to post it. Alex would never even attempt such a throw with a WR covered like that.

I would tend to agree with you here. It's a tie game, you're already in field goal range, it's only 2nd down in the 3rd qtr and that was a really dangerous low percentage throw - that could have just as easily been picked off as it was completed. Smith would have gone to another read, run if there was a lane or throw the ball away. Later in the game another ill-advised throw ended the game with a turn-over, ending a solid drive with plenty of time on the clock and multiple time-outs in their back pocket. What you use as an example of Kap's greatness, I believe is his biggest weakness and vice-versa for Smith. Just because this pass was completed, doesn't make the decision to throw it a good one. I believe Smith COULD have made this throw, but I also agree with you that he would not have taken this unnecessary risk - he would have MANAGED THE GAME.

And I like Kap. I think he'll get the mental aspect down.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IMw1GMS0h8M?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[temper11]

Who do you think? Of course. I told everybody on the 49ers forum I am Kaepernick over here.

Oh... I missed it.

[ThaVirus]

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Are we really using this clip as a means to prop up Kaep's game?

That was a horrendous decision and not even great placement.

[silver5liter]

This pole reminds me how stupid and unrealistic homers are.

[temper11]

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In fact I'll tell you exactly what Smith would have done. Right at the 2 second mark, he'd have dumped it off to Gore in the flat who had a 9 yard cushion. Gore would have picked up 3 to 5 yards and set up a 3rd and short to 3rd and manageable. That was the smart play. Boldin was covered and it wasn't "game on the line" time.

[temper11]

Are we really using this clip as a means to prop up Kaep's game?

That was a horrendous decision and not even great placement.

This.

[jd1020]

Are we really using this clip as a means to prop up Kaep's game?

That was a horrendous decision and not even great placement.

Wish I knew how throwing a touchdown pass was a "horrendous decision."

I guess he should have checked down to Frank Gore.

If Alex makes that play with a Chiefs helmet on, I bet you are sitting here telling us all about how he extended the play with his feet and made a perfect pass to his receiver by throwing it high where only his receiver could make a play on it and eliminating the underneath defender.

KC! We play for field goals! Touchdowns are horrendous!

[ThaVirus]

Wish I knew how throwing a touchdown pass was a "horrendous decision."

I guess he should have checked down to Frank Gore.

If Alex makes that play with a Chiefs helmet on, I bet you are sitting here telling us all about how he extended the play with his feet and made a perfect pass to his receiver by throwing it high where only his receiver could make a play on it and eliminating the underneath defender.

KC! We play for field goals! Touchdowns are horrendous!


Not at all.

That was a horrendous decision because it was 2nd and 8, in a tie ball game that was a low-scoring affair, with a quarter and a half left to be played. As someone said earlier, it was hardly "do or die" time.

More than that, the receiver was blanketed basically the entire route by an All-Pro defender.

There are so many reasons why that was a bad decision..

And, as I said, it wasn't even great placement, although it was not bad while on the move and under pressure.

Boldin is what, 6'2" or 6'3"? Earl Thomas is 5'10". If you watch the play, first of all, ET had excellent coverage. He really "won" that battle in the position department. He had a clean chance to swat or pick that off and even got a hand on it, which he shouldn't even have had the chance to do in the first place. When you're throwing to a guy that has a 4 or 5 inch advantage on his defender and the guy covering him gets a hand on it while your guy doesn't even have to jump to catch it, you just didn't throw it high enough.

TL;DR: if we played that back 10 times, ET would probably intercept that pass at least half the time.

[temper11]

Wish I knew how throwing a touchdown pass was a "horrendous decision."

I guess he should have checked down to Frank Gore.

If Alex makes that play with a Chiefs helmet on, I bet you are sitting here telling us all about how he extended the play with his feet and made a perfect pass to his receiver by throwing it high where only his receiver could make a play on it and eliminating the underneath defender.

KC! We play for field goals! Touchdowns are horrendous!

Well, like I said above, I don't think Alex would have attempted that play, not unless it was a game-on-the-line, do or die situation. He is often criticized for not taking more risks like this one, which obviously, sometimes works out.

But it was just as likely that the defender recovers a half second sooner and picks that ball off (as is what happened on the last play of the game). Which would have taken a sure 3pts off the board and potentially 7pts that more conservative play would have provided. You either like this style of - throw it up and hope for the best - play, or you prefer a more game-management style which Smith has really excelled in over the past 3 years.

[warrior]

Alex and its not even worth discussing

[temper11]

Fun article... I'm sure many won't agree with some of it, but thought this was interesting in relation to this thread:

Third and long is the last split I'm going to check before calling it a dealer's choice (between Kaepernick vs. Smith). If third down is the money down for QBs, thirrd and long is the BIG money down. The stakes don't get higher. Third down with nine-plus yards to go ... You're not going to believe this; they both have 51 attempts in that situation. Unreal.

Smith: 64.7%, 10.41 YPA, 4 TDs, 1 INT

Kap: 58.8%, 6.92 YPA, 1 TD, 1 INT

Read here for full article.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2014/4/9/5595462/alex-smith-chiefs-ranking-starting-quarterbacks

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Tattoo boy will fail once again

[Kaepernick]

Are we really using this clip as a means to prop up Kaep's game?

That was a horrendous decision and not even great placement.

Says you.

Walther Thurmond begs to differ. I'll take the word of a 3 time NFL All Pro defensive back over yours, thank you. You know -- the guy who tried but could not defense that perfect pass from Kaepernick to Boldin. I would say he had a much better view from which to speak than you do.


Seahawks’ Thomas on Kaepernick: ‘That’s a special player right there’


Thomas termed the Kaepernick-to-Boldin touchdown “… good offense vs. good defense and as a defender, I just think it was better offense.”

"He also throws one of the hardest balls in the league, almost like a baseball player, and it comes out like a fastball. Hot. The play I had against Boldin in the end zone, Kaepernick was jumping up in mid-air as he threw. That was a dime. I was kind of surprised he even threw it. They usually don’t when I’m that close in the area."



http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/01/27/seahawks-thomas-on-kaepernick-thats-a-special-player-right-there/


Let me know when you become a 3 time NFL All Pro and I will start to ask your opinion over Earl Thomas's.

[ThaVirus]

:hmmm: Wonder why he said he was surprised Kaep threw it...

Oh, yeah. Probably because he knew it wasn't a great idea.

[Sandy Vagina]

These 49ers fans are annoying asshats... may they all die in a fire as they hang from an aids tree after being soaked in antifreeze.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/confused/confusion-smiley-emoticon.gif

[Kaepernick]

Not at all.

That was a horrendous decision because it was 2nd and 8, in a tie ball game that was a low-scoring affair, with a quarter and a half left to be played. As someone said earlier, it was hardly "do or die" time.

More than that, the receiver was blanketed basically the entire route by an All-Pro defender.

There are so many reasons why that was a bad decision..

And, as I said, it wasn't even great placement, although it was not bad while on the move and under pressure.

Boldin is what, 6'2" or 6'3"? Earl Thomas is 5'10". If you watch the play, first of all, ET had excellent coverage. He really "won" that battle in the position department. He had a clean chance to swat or pick that off and even got a hand on it, which he shouldn't even have had the chance to do in the first place. When you're throwing to a guy that has a 4 or 5 inch advantage on his defender and the guy covering him gets a hand on it while your guy doesn't even have to jump to catch it, you just didn't throw it high enough.

TL;DR: if we played that back 10 times, ET would probably intercept that pass at least half the time.

Not great placement on a pass where the QB has left his feet and is fully in the air? Give me a ****ing break. It was a ****ing laser beam in the perfect spot at the perfect height.

Not great placement? See an eye doctor for new corrective lenses.

Anquan Boldin is 6'-1" not 6'-3 -- 3" taller than Thomas.

Thomas has a 32" vertical leap. Boldin had a 33" vertical leap coming out of college 11 years ago. Thomas's leap cancels out Boldin's height advantage. Any higher and that is an incompletion rather than a touchdown.

That was a perfectly thrown pass. Perfection.

[ThaVirus]

... And, yes, I'm sure the guy who was on the field, with his focus on covering his man, from 20 yards away has a "better view" than me.

I'm sitting at my house and watched the shit in real time and slow motion from 6 different angles.

Thomas' comments are nothing more than professional glad-handing. Find me the article where the reporter asked him if they ran that play back 100 times, how many times it would still be a TD.

[ThaVirus]

It was... in the perfect spot at the perfect height.


Right.

A perfect pass in perfect placement.. for the defender to touch it first?

:hmmm: Makes a lot of sense considering ET was damn near fully extended (albeit in a falling position) while Boldin didn't even jump.

[Kaepernick]

“… good offense vs. good defense and as a defender, I just think it was better offense,” Earl Thomas

Deal with it.

[splatbass]

Not great placement on a pass where the QB has left his feet and is fully in the air? Give me a ****ing break. It was a ****ing laser beam in the perfect spot at the perfect height.



JFC, the defender got his hand on it, how can you call it perfect?

[Kaepernick]

Right.

A perfect pass in perfect placement.. for the defender to touch it first?

:hmmm: Makes a lot of sense considering ET was damn near fully extended (albeit in a falling position) while Boldin didn't even jump.

Horseshit. Pure horseshit that Boldin didn't jump.

I am no longer joking about that eye Doctor appointment.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/SiouxFalls/yourtake/2014/03/14//1394773123004-DF-20140120-SPORTS-401200802-5.jpg

[Kaepernick]

Different angle with Slo motion. Absolutely perfect ****ing touchdown pass. PERFECTION.

If 33-year old Anquan Boldin COULD jump higher, he WOULD jump higher. Kap has what he has out there. Boldin is not a jump ball guy at 33 years old. He doesn't have his 33" vertical anymore.

Perfect.

****ing.

Pass.

ANY higher and it sails over Boldin's hands and you are bashing Kap for "poor accuracy".

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[Kaepernick]

JFC, the defender got his hand on it, how can you call it perfect?

Because it went for a TD while any higher and it falls incomplete. Look at the 2nd video I just posted. Kap could not have thrown that pass anywhere but where he threw it. 1/2" lower and it is deflected. 1'2" higher and it goes incomplete off Boldin's fingertips.

brucey_72 said Kaepernick is not an accurate passer. I posted that video showing his accuracy. It is a perfectly accurate pass placed exactly where it needs to be for Boldin to catch the touchdown. Perfectly accurate.

[ThaVirus]

Boldin was really straining his calves with that 6 inch vert there..

[BeeHo]

Because it went for a TD while any higher and it falls incomplete. Look at the 2nd video I just posted. Kap could not have thrown that pass anywhere but where he threw it. 1/2" lower and it is deflected. 1'2" higher and it goes incomplete off Boldin's fingertips.

brucey_72 said Kaepernick is not an accurate passer. I posted that video showing his accuracy. It is a perfectly accurate pass placed exactly where it needs to be for Boldin to catch the touchdown. Perfectly accurate.

You're emphasizing ONE play. I can easily do the same and cherry pick by choosing the last play of that game interception/deflection by Sherman.

Like this: If Kap had thrown the ball 1" (probably needed a lot more) higher, Sherman only grazes the football then maybe Crabtree has the touch down. If Kap had thrown the ball half a foot higher/deeper then Crabtree has the football to himself or it/he goes out of bounds. Biggest play of the game where Kap can perform the "The Catch IV" but falls short (pun).

Anyways, in regards to Kap's 2013 overall accuracy (with cherry picking):

58.4% regular season (ranked 31st of 37), 54.9% post season (ranked 12th of 12)

Compare to Russell Wilson:

63.1% (Ranked 12 of 37) regular season, 63.2% (ranked 7 of 12) post season

[Sandy Vagina]

... and keep in mind how many lousy passes were amazingly snagged by a guy like Boldin. The dude's just funky (Kaep), but has been able to get by and make enough flashy improv plays to make some forget that he's still got a long way to go.

He can do some amazing things, no doubt. But as a pure passer? There's a lot missing in his fundamentals and between his ears. Not sure yet if he is lazily getting by on his arm and leg strengths... if he is just young and needs to settle in.. +/or if he will be just another gifted athlete at QB to collapse under the pressure of crunch time.

[BeeHo]

... and keep in mind how many lousy passes were amazingly snagged by a guy like Boldin. The dude's just funky (Kaep), but has been able to get by and make enough flashy improv plays to make some forget that he's still got a long way to go.

He can do some amazing things, no doubt. But as a pure passer? There's a lot missing in his fundamentals and between his ears. Not sure yet if he is lazily getting by on his arm and leg strengths... if he is just young and needs to settle in.. +/or if he will be just another gifted athlete at QB to collapse under the pressure of crunch time.

Boldin is a heck of a receiver. even more so after considering his age.

[Ragged Robin]

lol that TD was a fluke. He tried the same pass to the sideline in the 4th quarter and was picked off. He even said so in an interview afterward that he knew the defender was standing in front of the receiver but he thought he could "get it over his head." Three turners in his final three drives. Choke.

[Kaepernick]

You're emphasizing ONE play. I can easily do the same and cherry pick by choosing the last play of that game interception/deflection by Sherman.

Like this: If Kap had thrown the ball 1" (probably needed a lot more) higher, Sherman only grazes the football then maybe Crabtree has the touch down. If Kap had thrown the ball half a foot higher/deeper then Crabtree has the football to himself or it/he goes out of bounds. Biggest play of the game where Kap can perform the "The Catch IV" but falls short (pun).

Anyways, in regards to Kap's 2013 overall accuracy (with cherry picking):

58.4% regular season (ranked 31st of 37), 54.9% post season (ranked 12th of 12)

Compare to Russell Wilson:

63.1% (Ranked 12 of 37) regular season, 63.2% (ranked 7 of 12) post season

What the hell does completion percentage have to do with accuracy?

That does not account for passes thrown away, passes defensed, or passes dropped. It does not account for high percentage passes vs low percentage passes.

You can't just pull completion percentage out of your ass and say that equals accuracy. It may or it may not.

In 2012 when Alex Smith had a 70% completion percentage, it had nothing to do with accuracy and everything to do with the huge rate of his check downs and passes within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.

Get real. Completion percentage does not equal accuracy.

Tom Brady's completion percentage was 60.5% last year. Josh McCown was 66.5%.

You are going to tell me with a straight face that Josh McCown is a more accurate passer than Tom Brady?

Pfffftttttt. :)

[Kaepernick]

Boldin was really straining his calves with that 6 inch vert there..

You will make an excuse for anything. Way to admit you were wrong.

Boldin is 33 years old. How high do you think he can jump anyway? :banghead:

[temper11]

Horseshit. Pure horseshit that Boldin didn't jump.

I am no longer joking about that eye Doctor appointment.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/SiouxFalls/yourtake/2014/03/14//1394773123004-DF-20140120-SPORTS-401200802-5.jpg

This is the image you picked to prove that he jumped? He is literally maybe an inch off the ground. I know Boldin is getting older but I think he's capable of jumping higher than that. But whatever, foot higher, foot to the left, whatever. It was a mistake (IMO) given the circumstances of the game, that he got away with.

[ThaVirus]

You will make an excuse for anything. Way to admit you were wrong.

Boldin is 33 years old. How high do you think he can jump anyway? :banghead:


This is just a terrible, terrible argument. We're watching the same clip and you're coming away with some fabricated outcome that keeps your boo bear Kaepernick's shit from stinking.

Thank you for letting me know you're a fucking 12 year old though. ZOMG HE'S 33 HE MIGHT AS WELL BE IN A WHEELCHAIR.

[SeeingRed]

No i definitely would NOT! Alex Smith is a better QB and only improved as the season went on. Smith, Charles, Johnson and Berry are the nucleus of this team at the moment.

[FRCDFED]

I feel some on here are comparing Kaep's stats in the SF offense to Smith's stats in the KC offense last season. Should prob look at how both grew after some time in the "same" offense.

With that being said...Smith had completed a whopping 70% of his passes before going down with an injury in his second year in Harbaugh's system. Can Kaep supporters say the same? No..I didn't think so.

Smith is a much more effective QB that can progress through the reads. I would pick Smith 10x out of 10.

If a KC QB completed 70% of their passes this place would be on fire!!!

[htismaqe]

49er fans arguing about a 49er QB.

On a CHIEFS message board.

ROFL

[Jimmya]

I think if all of the KC brass was so sure about Smith he would have already been signed.

[Eleazar]

lol that TD was a fluke. He tried the same pass to the sideline in the 4th quarter and was picked off. He even said so in an interview afterward that he knew the defender was standing in front of the receiver but he thought he could "get it over his head." Three turners in his final three drives. Choke.

That game was a microchasm of why QBs like him don't usually succeed in the NFL. In the postseason and against great teams, you have to be able to pass from the pocket and win games.

A lot of people can pile up stats, but there aren't many who can answer the bell in that situation. CK obviously is not one of them.

[BeeHo]

What the hell does completion percentage have to do with accuracy?

That does not account for passes thrown away, passes defensed, or passes dropped. It does not account for high percentage passes vs low percentage passes.

You can't just pull completion percentage out of your ass and say that equals accuracy. It may or it may not.

In 2012 when Alex Smith had a 70% completion percentage, it had nothing to do with accuracy and everything to do with the huge rate of his check downs and passes within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.

Get real. Completion percentage does not equal accuracy.

Tom Brady's completion percentage was 60.5% last year. Josh McCown was 66.5%.

You are going to tell me with a straight face that Josh McCown is a more accurate passer than Tom Brady?

Pfffftttttt. :)

Then by all means present the adjusted pass completion percentages overall, 0-9 yards, 10+ yards, 20+ yards, etc. Prove that Kap is an accurate passer. I don't suscribe to PFF to be able to extract the data.

Using a single play with a poor image of anquan boldin's td catch (you're making it look like he can't jump vertically; btw i know a good optometrist).

Btw, patriots ranked 2nd in most dropped passes (41 total) which contributes to Tom Brady's overall accuracy. 49ers were 15th in most dropped passes.

McCown had a strong season for the games he played ; 13 td: 1 int ; 109 rating.


PFF "2013 aDOT-Adjusted Completion Percentage" - Mike Clay:

"We want to adjust each quarterback’s completion percentage based on the distance of his throws. Quarterbacks who usually throw a lot of screens and short passes will be punished. Those who aren’t afraid to chuck it deep will be rewarded." "Remember, it’s just an adjusted version of completion percentage that removes wasted plays and counts drops as completions."
- So Alex Smith should be punished for all the screens/check downs and Kap's comp % should be a lot better compared to other QBs, right?

Actual C%:

Name C% [may have typos; I couldn't rank them, didn't have time; maybe later]

Aaron Rodgers 79.9
Philip Rivers 78.8
Josh McCown 77.8
Peyton Manning 77.6
Drew Brees 76.2
Nick Foles 74.8

.
.
Alex Smith 73.7
Russell Wilson 72.3
Tom Brady 71.7
Andrew Luck 71.2
.
.
.
EJ Manuel 68.6
Brandon Weeden 68.5
Joe Flacco 68.3
Colin Kaepernick 68.2
Geno Smith 67.6
Eli Manning 67.6

[BeeHo]

New Article from Mike Clay PFF:

Expected Completion Percentage and Defensive Personnel Faced
Mike Clay | April 15, 2014

"we’ll look at the passers who faced fewer than five defensive backs (99 percent of which is Base) on the highest percentage of their 2013 drop backs. As we learned earlier, it becomes easier for quarterbacks to complete passes as defensive backs are removed from the field. "



"No player had it “easier” than Colin Kaepernick last season. In fact, Kaepernick leads this category for the second consecutive season. San Francisco’s signal caller saw five or more defensive backs just 39.4 percent of the time in 2012, which is just below his 39.6 mark from this past season. No player saw fewer than four defensive backs (five percent) or Base defense (56 percent) more than Kaepernick last season. In fact, it wasn’t even close. He took advantage, putting up a 19:6 TD:INT ratio against four or fewer defensive backs, compared to a 5:5 mark against five or more. Consider this your official Colin Kaepernick red flag."

[Pasta Little Brioni]

49er fans arguing about a 49er QB.

On a CHIEFS message board.

ROFL

Well he will be ours in a decade, so early scouting!!

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Is Kaperdick hootie? There could only be one person on the planet dumb enough to argue that this clown is the best in the league.

[htismaqe]

That game was a microchasm of why QBs like him don't usually succeed in the NFL. In the postseason and against great teams, you have to be able to pass from the pocket and win games.

A lot of people can pile up stats, but there aren't many who can answer the bell in that situation. CK obviously is not one of them.

Just playing Devil's advocate here but you could replace CK with AS in your statement and it would essentially still be true...

[Sandy Vagina]

Just playing Devil's advocate here but you could replace CK with AS in your statement and it would essentially still be true...

how do you figure that? Smith stepped up very well in most clutch situations. Are we blaming him because Bowe didn't bother to get his 2nd foot in? or blaming him against the NYG when both defenses were shutting Eli and Alex down? Smith was running a 1st year new offense after the lockout that year... had receivers named Brett Swain, Kyle Williams, and even Crabtree was dropping passes and saying he needs to play better.

Kaepernick just chokes the crucial games away so far. If not for his physical talent and splash plays from that talent... if not for his good fortune of being on a stacked team... he likely wouldn't be so forgiven for his inability to read defenses and go through progressions.

[BeeHo]

PFF

Sig Stat: Accuracy % Breakdown
Gordon McGuinness | February 12, 2014



Our Accuracy Percentage stat goes beyond your standard quarterback completion percentage, taking into account dropped passes, throw aways, spiked balls, batted passes and passes where the quarterback was hit while attempting to throw.

Acc%: Deep Passing

The Top 10

"Deep Accuracy gives a good indication of which quarterbacks were most accurate challenging defenses downfield and, with a big start in limited action in Houston, Case Keenum tops the list with a Deep Acc% of 53.1%. Rodgers is once again amongst the best here, as the only quarterback other than Keenum to finish above 50%. Super Bowl QBs Russell Wilson and Peyton Manning round out the Top 5 along with the surprise inclusion of Kellen Clemens."

Name Team Deep Acc. %
Case Keenum HST 53.1%
Aaron Rodgers GB 52.8%
Russell Wilson SEA 48.3%
Peyton Manning DEN 48.2%
Kellen Clemens STL 48.0%
Matt Cassel MIN 47.4%
Geno Smith NYJ 46.7%
Alex D. Smith KC 46.3%
Matthew McGloin OAK 45.7%
Mike Glennon TB 45.0%




Acc%: Under Pressure

Top 10

It’s the tale of two injury replacement in the NFC North at the top here, with free agents-to-be McCown and Flynn at the top of the table. They’re joined in the first five by Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning, which hardly comes as a surprise. The Top 5 ends with a Ryan Fitzpatrick sighting and all five were accurate on at least 68.5% of their throws while under pressure.

The Bottom 10

[I]The theme for the Bottom 10 here seems to be inexperience, with most of the players here still fairly young in their careers. Nobody struggled under pressure as much as Buffalo’s backup Thaddeus Lewis, who completed just 40% of his throws when pressure got to him. He’s joined at the bottom by McGloin and Brandon Weeden with both showing why so many doubt their viability as a long-term starters in the league. St. Louis’ Sam Bradford had the fourth-worst mark as we head into yet another offseason where he’s coming off an injury.

Name Team Under Pressure Acc. %
Andy Dalton CIN 56.7%
Jake Locker TEN 56.6%
Andrew Luck IND 56.0%
Geno Smith NYJ 55.5%
Colin Kaepernick SF 55.1%
Matt Schaub HST 55.1%
Sam Bradford STL 53.4%
Brandon Weeden CLV 50.8%
Matthew McGloin OAK 50.0%
Thaddeus Lewis BUF 40.0%


Andrew Luck and Andy Dalton also feature in the Bottom 10, with their up-and-down play leading to six pressured picks apiece. Geno Smith can be spotted once again, with pressure causing him plenty of problems in his rookie year, while veteran Matt Schaub’s inclusion won’t come as a surprise to anyone who saw him during what was as rough a year as he’s had in the league.

[htismaqe]

how do you figure that? Smith stepped up very well in most clutch situations. Are we blaming him because Bowe didn't bother to get his 2nd foot in? or blaming him against the NYG when both defenses were shutting Eli and Alex down? Smith was running a 1st year new offense after the lockout that year... had receivers named Brett Swain, Kyle Williams, and even Crabtree was dropping passes and saying he needs to play better.

Kaepernick just chokes the crucial games away so far. If not for his physical talent and splash plays from that talent... if not for his good fortune of being on a stacked team... he likely wouldn't be so forgiven for his inability to read defenses and go through progressions.

Alex doesn't make clutch plays from the pocket. He makes clutch plays from outside the pocket. Read what he posted again.

The excuses for Alex Smith are hilarious, though.

No chance of even being realistic about his ability. It's always somebody else's fault.

[Sandy Vagina]

Alex doesn't make clutch plays from the pocket. He makes clutch plays from outside the pocket. Read what he posted again.

The excuses for Alex Smith are hilarious, though.

No chance of even being realistic about his ability. It's always somebody else's fault.

Sadly for him, this has been the case so far.

Excuses.. always an interesting word. Seems to me that when people like a QB and defend him, there are legit reasons for why he struggles. And when you don't like a QB, those same legit reasons magically transform into excuses.

So Bowe can't keep his foot in bounds... and somehow that's an excuse for the QB failing to come through in the clutch. Gotcha. :thumb:

I sure have heard more excuses allowed for other QBs around the league than for their own here. It's as if most here are so terrified to be labeled a blind homer that they push in the extreme opposite direction. Ooookay. Right, wrong, brilliant or ridiculous.. it's all entertaining.

[htismaqe]

Sadly for him, this has been the case so far.

Excuses.. always an interesting word. Seems to me that when people like a QB and defend him, there are legit reasons for why he struggles. And when you don't like a QB, those same legit reasons magically transform into excuses.

Except for the fact that I like Alex Smith. In fact, I believe I've said I LOVE Alex Smith as the Chiefs QB. The difference is that I can be honest about him and his shortcomings.

So Bowe can't keep his foot in bounds... and somehow that's an excuse for the QB failing to come through in the clutch. Gotcha. :thumb:

I didn't say anything about Bowe and to act like that single play was the deciding factor in the game, given what we ALL SAW in the 3rd quarter, is disingenuous.

However, we all know how you feel about Bowe so certainly any time you can blame him for something, you're going to.

As for that particular play, I know what happened and I've said as much on the record. I've never blamed Alex Smith for it so once again, you're completely off-base.

I sure have heard more excuses allowed for other QBs around the league than for their own here. It's as if most here are so terrified to be labeled a blind homer that they push in the extreme opposite direction. Ooookay. Right, wrong, brilliant or ridiculous.. it's all entertaining.

Except I've not made any excuses for any other QBs either. I don't make excuses

[Eleazar]

Just playing Devil's advocate here but you could replace CK with AS in your statement and it would essentially still be true...

Eh, I don't think it's really a close comparison. Smith played at such a high level in that game that he put his team in a position to win, wire to wire. But he can't win games on his own, obviously no QB can. And if you want to talk about the last drive, if Bowe catches a ball he should catch, then we win. That was the moment comparable to CK I guess, but Smith did his job. He can't throw the ball and catch it too LMAO

Kaepernick had his chance to prove he is good enough as a QB to go win a game himself to send his team to the super bowl, and he got three chances in a row to do it and - whether it is a good representation of who he is or not - he turned the ball over 3 times in a row.

They were two games that asked different things of the QBs involved.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Would not trade a bag of peanuts to have that douche lead a team.

[htismaqe]

Eh, I don't think it's really a close comparison. Smith played at such a high level in that game that he put his team in a position to win, wire to wire. But he can't win games on his own, obviously no QB can. And if you want to talk about the last drive, if Bowe catches a ball he should catch, then we win. That was the moment comparable to CK I guess, but Smith did his job. He can't throw the ball and catch it too LMAO

Kaepernick had his chance to prove he is good enough as a QB to go win a game himself to send his team to the super bowl, and he got three chances in a row to do it and - whether it is a good representation of who he is or not - he turned the ball over 3 times in a row.

They were two games that asked different things of the QBs involved.

Why is everybody so focused on ONE play in ONE game? It's almost as if they know if we open up this discussion and look at ALL of the evidence, they'll see something they don't want to see...

:hmmm:

[Sandy Vagina]

The better question is... why are you hiding from that one play in that one game? You suggested that Smith and Kaep are comparable in that they both fail when it matters in the pocket.. or is that not the case now? Time to backtrack?

Was Alex not in the pocket when he hit VD for the winning TD pass vs the Saints in the playoffs?

I think you just played devil's advocate there to get some attention, frankly. Well... good for you... you got it.

[htismaqe]

The better question is... why are you hiding from that one play in that one game? You suggested that Smith and Kaep are comparable in that they both fail when it matters in the pocket.. or is that not the case now? Time to backtrack?

Did Alex Smith not play in 17 games last year?

Was Alex not in the pocket when he hit VD for the winning TD pass vs the Saints in the playoffs?

You can cherry pick games, great.

I think you just played devil's advocate there to get some attention, frankly. Well... good for you... you got it.

Well, you'd be wrong. Which you've gotten pretty good at being.

[htismaqe]

I think somebody needs to read what Cochise posted again.

It doesn't say anything about "choking" or "failing". In fact, I don't see any absolutes in his post at all.

[Sandy Vagina]

Your vague response was not vague enough... and it was clear for sure when you followed it up with

Alex doesn't make clutch plays from the pocket.

What an ignorant thing to say... so either you are a really clueless on your QB or you are looking for attention by blurting out inane comments.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It's past time for the Niner dudes to go away...it is creepy

[Chiefnj2]

PFF

Sig Stat: Accuracy % Breakdown
Gordon McGuinness | February 12, 2014



Our Accuracy Percentage stat goes beyond your standard quarterback completion percentage, taking into account dropped passes, throw aways, spiked balls, batted passes and passes where the quarterback was hit while attempting to throw.

Acc%: Deep Passing

The Top 10

"Deep Accuracy gives a good indication of which quarterbacks were most accurate challenging defenses downfield and, with a big start in limited action in Houston, Case Keenum tops the list with a Deep Acc% of 53.1%. Rodgers is once again amongst the best here, as the only quarterback other than Keenum to finish above 50%. Super Bowl QBs Russell Wilson and Peyton Manning round out the Top 5 along with the surprise inclusion of Kellen Clemens."

Name Team Deep Acc. %
Case Keenum HST 53.1%
Aaron Rodgers GB 52.8%
Russell Wilson SEA 48.3%
Peyton Manning DEN 48.2%
Kellen Clemens STL 48.0%
Matt Cassel MIN 47.4%
Geno Smith NYJ 46.7%
Alex D. Smith KC 46.3%
Matthew McGloin OAK 45.7%
Mike Glennon TB 45.0%

.[/I]

You left out he was the 37th out of 39 QBs in downfield attempts. It's nice that he has the physical ability to go downfield (nobody really questions his arm strength), but it's always been an issue if he has the mental makeup to go downfield often. The fact that Cassel is in the top 10 shows just how misleading stats can be.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You left out he was the 37th out of 39 QBs in downfield attempts. It's nice that he has the physical ability to go downfield (nobody really questions his arm strength), but it's always been an issue if he has the mental makeup to go downfield often. The fact that Cassel is in the top 10 shows just how misleading stats can be.

Yes, but all we heard the prior offseason was that he couldn't even complete a deep ball. At least that's the way folks acted.

[Ragged Robin]

You left out he was the 37th out of 39 QBs in downfield attempts. It's nice that he has the physical ability to go downfield (nobody really questions his arm strength), but it's always been an issue if he has the mental makeup to go downfield often. The fact that Cassel is in the top 10 shows just how misleading stats can be.

Who's supposed to be catching these downfield attempts?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/0ap2000000275461/McCluster-drops-pass-late-in-first-half

[Sandy Vagina]

Who's supposed to be catching these downfield attempts?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/0ap2000000275461/McCluster-drops-pass-late-in-first-half

apparently, that's just an "excuse" for the QB. :facepalm:

[htismaqe]

Your vague response was not vague enough... and it was clear for sure when you followed it up with

What an ignorant thing to say... so either you are a really clueless on your QB or you are looking for attention by blurting out inane comments.

He doesn't make the majority of his clutch plays from in the pocket. He's much better outside the pocket.

I didn't realize that I had to be 100% perfectly clear so that you couldn't argue about technicalities instead of actually bringing some substance to the conversation.

[htismaqe]

apparently, that's just an "excuse" for the QB. :facepalm:

No, it's actually a valid criticism of the WRs.

But when you only mention that, and don't ever acknowledge the shortcomings of the QB, THEN it becomes and excuse.

I'm sure you know the difference, considering you like to nitpick on technicalities and all.

[Eleazar]

I think somebody needs to read what Cochise posted again.

It doesn't say anything about "choking" or "failing". In fact, I don't see any absolutes in his post at all.

With respect to CK, I only said (or meant to say I guess) that if he wanted to prove the "He'll never win a super bowl" crowd wrong, his failing to generate points on three straight possessions didn't do him any favors. Doesn't make him a failure but it leaves him firmly in the column of not having proven his case, if he has one.

IMO, there is no evidence yet to suggest he's going to develop into a great passer. He has played well at times on a pretty elite team. A lot of scramblers could pile up yardage improvising with Davis, Crabtree, and Boldin out there, and win games with a defense that can cover for him when it needs to.

Situations like the 4th quarter against the Seahawks in the postseason probably tell us more, IMO.

That's what we Chiefs fans say we care about (as if we deserve to call ourselves quarterbacking snobs), the ability to win the super bowl and not regular season games... right?

[milkman]

I'd like to see the game by game break down of Smith's deep pass attempts.

I'd bet that 60+% of his deep balls came in the last 7 games.

[htismaqe]

With respect to CK, I only said (or meant to say I guess) that if he wanted to prove the "He'll never win a super bowl" crowd wrong, his failing to generate points on three straight possessions didn't do him any favors. Doesn't make him a failure but it leaves him firmly in the column of not having proven his case, if he has one.

And again, one could say the same about Alex Smith. The Colts started their comeback in the midst of a 3-drive swing where we managed 25 yards, a fumble, and had to settle for a FG after the defense got a turnover at the Indy 28 yard line.

IMO, there is no evidence yet to suggest he's going to develop into a great passer. He has played well at times on a pretty elite team. A lot of scramblers could pile up yardage improvising with Davis, Crabtree, and Boldin out there, and win games with a defense that can cover for him when it needs to.

Like Alex Smith did.

Situations like the 4th quarter against the Seahawks in the postseason probably tell us more, IMO.

That's what we Chiefs fans say we care about (as if we deserve to call ourselves quarterbacking snobs), the ability to win the super bowl and not regular season games... right?

Absolutely. You're 100% right there. That's why I voted for Alex Smith. :)

[Eleazar]

And again, one could say the same about Alex Smith. The Colts started their comeback in the midst of a 3-drive swing where we managed 25 yards, a fumble, and had to settle for a FG after the defense got a turnover at the Indy 28 yard line.


Shouldn't we give Alex Smith a little bit of credit for 44 points on the board or whatever it was?