Life without Parole for nonviolent Cannabis conviction

[planetdoc]

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/04/free_jeff_mizanskey_efforts_co.php

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/assets_c/2014/04/mizanskey_billboard_KC-thumb-550x413.jpg

Efforts to release Jeff Mizanskey, the only man in Missouri serving a life-without-parole sentence for a nonviolent marijuana charge, are continuing this month with help from Show-Me Cannabis and Change.org.

Show-Me Cannabis has bought billboard space on I-70 near Kansas City (and near Sedalia, where Mizanskey was arrested). The billboard features a photo of Mizanskey and says: "Life without parole for cannabis? It's time we fix our unjust marijuana laws."

Jeff Mizanskey was convicted under Missouri's "Prior and Persistent Drug Offender" statute, the only drug-specific three-strike law in the country. Each of his felonies were for marijuana, the largest being approximately six pounds, which he didn't even have on him. To read the details of Mizanskey's story, go to: How a Missouri Man Could Die in Prison for Weed (http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2013-12-05/news/jeff-mizanskey-life-in-prison-marijuana/)

[Bowser]

Him serving a life sentence for weed is a waste of taxpayer money.

[planetdoc]

A brother and sister were recently given a 20 year sentence for growing pot in Missouri. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/siblings-pot-missouri-prison-time-driving-drunk-killing-someone_n_5052094.html)

In Missouri, if you kill someone while driving drunk, you could go to prison for -- at most -- 15 years. That's what Natalie and David DePriest are serving -- for growing marijuana. They were educated, had jobs and had no prior felony convictions on their records.

[-King-]

How did GE get arrested for weed he didn't have on him? Trying to buy from an undercover cop?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bowser]

A brother and sister were recently given a 20 year sentence for growing pot in Missouri. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/siblings-pot-missouri-prison-time-driving-drunk-killing-someone_n_5052094.html)

:facepalm:

[Donger]

I'd prefer that this repeat pot head be taken into the street and killed, but this okay.

[-King-]

I'd prefer that this repeat pot head be taken into the street and killed, but this okay.

Cool story bro. Won't you tell it again?
Posted via Mobile Device

[planetdoc]

Meanwhile in America, a wealthy Du Pont heir dodged prison for raping his three year old daughter.

And that 'affluenza' teen only got probation for killing 4 people.

And...

[Iconic]

The idea you can get locked up for a plant is just so... I can't even....ugh.

[-King-]

Meanwhile in America, a wealthy Du Pont heir dodged prison for raping his three year old daughter.

...

Wait. What? Seriously?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Iconic]

Wait. What? Seriously?
Posted via Mobile Device

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/woman-sues-ex-husband-du-pont-heir-dodged-prison-raping-3-year-old-daughter-article-1.1740180

[Johnny Vegas]

hell a teacher raping his 14 year old student got 30 days in jail in Montana.

[Iconic]

BUT THIS WEED SMOKING HIPPIE IS A BIGGER DANGER GUYZ!11

[Mi_chief_fan]

The idea you can get locked up for a plant is just so... I can't even....ugh.

Yeah, and it boggles my mind that in 2014 there are still dry counties in this country. Hard to believe.

[Johnny Vegas]

BUT THIS WEED SMOKING HIPPIE IS A BIGGER DANGER GUYZ!11

I could die of cancer if he blew smoke in the air as I walk by.

[planetdoc]

Wait. What? Seriously?
Posted via Mobile Device

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-judge-says-du-pont-heir-wont-fare-well-in-prison/

[-King-]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/woman-sues-ex-husband-du-pont-heir-dodged-prison-raping-3-year-old-daughter-article-1.1740180

Wow. Just wow.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Dave Lane]

I'd prefer that this repeat pot head be taken into the street and killed, but this okay.

Not sure if serious

[planetdoc]

BUT THIS WEED SMOKING HIPPIE IS A BIGGER DANGER GUYZ!11

Study: Marijuana legalization doesn’t increase crime (http://www.msnbc.com/all/does-marijuana-lower-the-crime-rate)

Three months after Colorado residents legalized recreational marijuana with the passage of Amendment 64 in Nov. 2012, Sheriff Tom Allman of Mendocio County, Calif. – a haven for marijuana growers – warned that an onslaught of crime was headed toward Colorado.

“Thugs put on masks, they come to your house, they kick in your door. They point guns at you and say, ‘Give me your marijuana, give me your money,’” Allman told a Denver TV station in February. His state became the first to legalize marijuana for medical use in 1996; Colorado followed suit in 2000.

But a new report contends that fourteen years later, even after Colorado legalized the sale of small amounts of marijuana for recreational use on Jan. 1 of this year, violent and property crime rates in the city are actually falling.

According to data from the Denver Police Department, violent crime (including homicide, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault) fell by 6.9% in the first quarter of 2014, compared with the same period in 2013. Property crime (including burglary, larceny, auto theft, theft from motor vehicle and arson) dropped by 11.1%.

A study looking at the legalization of medical marijuana nationwide, published late last month in the journal PLOS ONE, found that the trend holds: Not only does medical marijuana legalization not correlate with an uptick in crime, researchers from the University of Texas at Dallas argue it may actually reduce it.

Using statistics from the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report and controlling for variables like the unemployment and poverty rates; per capita income; age of residents; proportion of residents with college degree; number of police officers and prisoners; and even beer consumption, researchers analyzed data from all 50 states between 1990 and 2006. (California became the first state to legalize medical marijuana in 1996; in the decade that followed, 10 states followed suit. Today that number is up to 20 states, plus the District of Columbia.) They wrote:

“The central finding gleaned from the present study was that MML (medical marijuana legalization) is not predictive of higher crime rates and may be related to reductions in rates of homicide and assault. Interestingly, robbery and burglary rates were unaffected by medicinal marijuana legislation, which runs counter to the claim that dispensaries and grow houses lead to an increase in victimization due to the opportunity structures linked to the amount of drugs and cash that are present.”

The study drew a link between marijuana and alcohol use, surmising that the legalization of pot could cause the number of alcohol-fueled crimes to decline.

“While it is important to remain cautious when interpreting these findings as evidence that MML reduces crime, these results do fall in line with recent evidence and they conform to the longstanding notion that marijuana legalization may lead to a reduction in alcohol use due to individuals substituting marijuana for alcohol. Given the relationship between alcohol and violent crime, it may turn out that substituting marijuana for alcohol leads to minor reductions in violent crimes that can be detected at the state level.”

[Donger]

Not sure if serious

Of course not. I like needling the pot heads. They are more sensitive than Paul followers.

[J Diddy]

You would think that this country would have learned something from prohibition.

[Simplicity]

Of course not. I like needling the pot heads. They are more sensitive than Paul followers.

They are, indeed.

[LoneWolf]

I have trouble feeling sorry for this guy. He repeatedly broke the law. I don't care if you don't agree with the law. If you know something is illegal and choose to do it anyway, you have to be willing to face the consequences.

I think life without parole is excessive, but like Jim Carrey said so eloquently in Liar Liar. "Stop breaking the law, asshole!"

[Iconic]

Study: Marijuana legalization doesn’t increase crime (http://www.msnbc.com/all/does-marijuana-lower-the-crime-rate)

Its funny; you hear all of this talk from legislatures about "the raising crime rates" caused by legalization and now you get research attached to this argument going in the opposite direction. If these twats would just pay attention to all the crime prohibition has caused, legalization would be a done deal. Our legislators seem more interested in grandstanding than common sense.

[Why Not?]

I have trouble feeling sorry for this guy. He repeatedly broke the law. I don't care if you don't agree with the law. If you know something is illegal and choose to do it anyway, you have to be willing to face the consequences.

I think life without parole is excessive, but like Jim Carrey said so eloquently in Liar Liar. "Stop breaking the law, asshole!"

This. The sentence is a little over the top but it's hard to get worked up over a guy who gets popped 3x for basically the same thing. Also, I assume he was told after strike two, what was to come next.

[planetdoc]

one could argue such a sentence is a violation of the 8th amendment of the US constitution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

1. unusual: only drug specific 3 strike law in the country.
2. cruel: life in prison for drug conviction (plant)
3. excessive ?

[aturnis]

Meanwhile in America, a wealthy Du Pont heir dodged prison for raping his three year old daughter.

And that 'affluenza' teen only got probation for killing 4 people.

And...

And... The good people of Texas get to pay $21,000/month to send the affluenza ten to rehab...

[cdcox]

The idea you can get locked up for a plant is just so... I can't even....ugh.

What if it was a genetically engineered Venus fly trap that was capable of eating a human and it was created for the specific intent of throwing in your dog groomer? What then, huh? Huh? What then?

[GloucesterChief]

Its funny; you hear all of this talk from legislatures about "the raising crime rates" caused by legalization and now you get research attached to this argument going in the opposite direction. If these twats would just pay attention to all the crime prohibition has caused, legalization would be a done deal. Our legislators seem more interested in grandstanding than common sense.

The social Puritans dropped religion and found Government. They are still Puritans but instead of simply speaking from the pulpit they can use the violence of government to satisfy their sense of moral outrage that somebody somewhere is having a good time.

[Fish]

The idea you can get locked up for a plant is just so... I can't even....ugh.

Heroin comes from a poppy plant. Cocaine comes from a coca plant. LSD comes from a fungus.

The source is irrelevant. All the best shit is natural. Doesn't make it good for you though.....

[planetdoc]

Heroin comes from a poppy plant. Cocaine comes from a coca plant. LSD comes from a fungus.

takes tremendous concentrating and processing, unlike cannabis. Hashish would be a closer (yet still imperfect) comparison to Heroin, cocaine, and LSD.

All the best shit is natural.

arguable if "all the best shit is natural." Talk to a chemist who knows how to make some extremely potent drugs, or talk to the pharm industry.

Doesn't make it good for you though.....
I dont think its the role of government to ban everything that is bad for you. One could make an argument that almost everything (including H20 and O2) can be bad for you outside of moderation.

[KC native]

And... The good people of Texas get to pay $21,000/month to send the affluenza ten to rehab...

Actually his parents are paying for the rehab.

[aturnis]

Actually his parents are paying for the rehab.

Not last I knew.

His parents wanted to send him to a $35,000/month joint, but the judge didn't like that option and ordered he was treated somewhere else.

[KC native]

Not last I knew.

His parents wanted to send him to a $35,000/month joint, but the judge didn't like that option and ordered he was treated somewhere else.

She didn't like the facility because it was too luxurious and she was getting scrutiny.

That kid was in the facility where my wife is interning.

[aturnis]

Which, to my understanding, b/c it was court ordered, and he didn't get to choose, it was paid for them.

Would she do US a favor and off him?

[KC native]

Which, to my understanding, b/c it was court ordered, and he didn't get to choose, it was paid for them.

Would she do US a favor and off him?

I wish. He was shuffled out of there as fast as possible. There were some issues with some of the jailors and other staff being extremely hostile to him because they see kids that had no chance get long sentences for stuff that was no where close to as bad as what that kid got. They had to put several people on paid leave when he was there.

The psychologist that came up with the affluenza defense was a private guy. The family paid for that diagnosis so his punishment would be somewhat sellable to the public

[Xanathol]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime...

[KC native]

Which, to my understanding, b/c it was court ordered, and he didn't get to choose, it was paid for them.

Would she do US a favor and off him?

And just looked it up. You were right. His parents are paying the max on the state facility's scale. I didn't know that had changed. I think the people at my wife's facility want to forget that he was ever there.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/04/11/5730989/troubled-teen-is-being-treated.html?rh=1

[saphojunkie]

Meanwhile in America, a wealthy Du Pont heir dodged prison for raping his three year old daughter.

And that 'affluenza' teen only got probation for killing 4 people.

And...

Please PM me if anyone is on board with hunting these people down and killing them.

[BigMeatballDave]

This. The sentence is a little over the top but it's hard to get worked up over a guy who gets popped 3x for basically the same thing. Also, I assume he was told after strike two, what was to come next.

A little? :spock:

[Coochie liquor]

Weed=the devil... NOT!! Keep it Rasta!!!!

[aturnis]

Isn't giving the aliens argument credence pretty dangerous?

Couldn't now anyone who grows up in the hood argue a similar but opposite mental disorder?

[Dayze]

the dude that's the DuPont heir looks like the old man from Pawn Stars

[Simply Red]

Of course not. I like needling the pot heads. They are more sensitive than Paul followers.

negative feedback!

[Just Passin' By]

A little? :spock:

It's the 3 strike rule, and other mandatory laws, that are the problem. The same thing happens with petty theft, and other low level crimes, in other jurisdictions.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/13/us-prisoners-sentences-life-non-violent-crimes

[Marcellus]

If I read correctly the guy was busted 2X before for selling weed and then got busted again making a 3rd time. I am certain the guy probably had other charges that were reduced in his history as well, I doubt 3 times is his real total.

While a life sentence is ridiculously absurd, I have to ask, couldn't the guy have simply quit doing what he knew was a crime with a progressive sentence structure?

I mean he really must not be very smart maybe prison is a good place for him.

[jspchief]

If I read correctly the guy was busted 2X before for selling weed and then got busted again making a 3rd time. I am certain the guy probably had other charges that were reduced in his history as well, I doubt 3 times is his real total.

While a life sentence is ridiculously absurd, I have to ask, couldn't the guy have simply quit doing what he knew was a crime with a progressive sentence structure?

I mean he really must not be very smart maybe prison is a good place for him.Have to agree. Society isn't going to miss this moron.

[blaise]

Harsh sentence but this guy is stupid. If they let him out he'll probably get arrested for it again next year.

[tmax63]

That's kind of my position. He knew if he didn't cut the crap he could face life but continued anyway. I like the idea that people who continually ignore the law gets penalized. CO is currently working on 6yr jail time for your 3rd DUI in 7yrs or 4th in a lifetime. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on ME"

[Simplicity]

If you know you can't do it... Why do it? Too many people running around thinking they are going to start a revolution or something... It's America, shits not gonna change.

[houstonwhodat]

Man FUCK Missouri

[planetdoc]

Please PM me if anyone is on board with hunting these people down and killing them.

It is unwise in this day and age to create a "paper trail" for a conspiracy to commit murder. Either that or you are LEO.

If you know you can't do it... Why do it?

no different than prohibition time. How do you think Budweiser made their fortune? Does one follow a law only because it defines what is legal or illegal?

A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.

[Cannibal]

While it may be true that he should not have broken weed laws 3 times, placing him in prison for life is fucking ridiculous. Especially when weed is being legalized in so many other places in the country.

[BigMeatballDave]

If you know you can't do it... Why do it? Too many people running around thinking they are going to start a revolution or something... It's America, shits not gonna change.

It'll change eventually. 2 states have legalized it.

[BigMeatballDave]

Also, people know the consequences of speeding, it doesn't stop people from doing it.

[jspchief]

Also, people know the consequences of speeding, it doesn't stop people from doing it.Speeding doesn't have a 3 strike law that can land you in prison, so that's a pretty bad comparison.

[Marcellus]

Also, people know the consequences of speeding, it doesn't stop people from doing it.

If I knew I could realistically go to prison for it I wouldn't speed.

[Marcellus]

It'll change eventually. 2 states have legalized it.

I doubt it will ever be legal to have 6lbs of it.

[BigMeatballDave]

I doubt it will ever be legal to have 6lbs of it.

If you're a proprietor. :D

[notorious]

Is he over-punished? Probably. Any fucks given by me? Nope.


planetdoc, please don't post a quote by MLK that had to deal with Civil Rights and Segregation in a thread about a dumbass that likes to smoke weed.

[FishingRod]

Stupid guy is stupid. But if I lived in MO I would encourage my state to repeal this law and recommend Commutation of sentence. The cost of keeping him locked up is not a good use of tax dollars

[planetdoc]

planetdoc, please don't post a quote by MLK that had to deal with Civil Rights and Segregation in a thread about a dumbass that likes to smoke weed.

1. MLK didnt limit his ideas to civil rights and segregation. He has a lot of quotes and speeches in regards to unjust laws.

2. I would think MLK would be in favor of cannabis reform. The history of the laws itself were written to unfairly target minorities (mainly African Americans).

[planetdoc]

Too many people running around thinking they are going to start a revolution or something... It's America, shits not gonna change.

This forum was able to organize "save our chiefs" and get banners flown, billboards put up, and fans to wear black on game day to show displeasure against the Pioli regime. Dont discount the power of the common man.

[Bwana]

I think that is a long time to be hanging in a cell for weed. On the other hand life is full of choices, we all have choices to make and this guy made some bad ones.

[King_Chief_Fan]

This forum was able to organize "save our chiefs" and get banners flown, billboards put up, and fans to wear black on game day to show displeasure against the Pioli regime. Dont discount the power of the common man.

yup, I can see all the dope smokers getting together to raise a ruckus...LMAO

[planetdoc]

yup, I can see all the dope smokers getting together to raise a ruckus...LMAO

one does not have to smoke cannabis to understand the laws against them are unjust.

[Easy 6]

While it may be true that he should not have broken weed laws 3 times, placing him in prison for life is ****ing ridiculous. Especially when weed is being legalized in so many other places in the country.

This.

Dudes dumb as a brick no doubt, but a life sentence is even dumber.

[planetdoc]

Rare ‘Perry Mason’ moment in court wins dismissal for defendant, desk duty for 5 police officers (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/rare_perry_mason_moment_at_trial_wins_acquittal_for_defendant_desk_duty_for/)

A seemingly routine suppression hearing in a suburban Chicago courthouse last month took an unexpected dramatic turn when video from a police car was introduced that disproved the testimony of five police officers.

They had said Joseph Sperling was arrested after officers who pulled him over in a traffic stop smelled marijuana, searched the vehicle and found nearly a pound in a backpack lying on the back seat of his car. But the Glenview police video showed the search occurred only after Sperling was taken from his car, frisked and handcuffed, reports the Chicago Tribune (sub. req.). The newspaper dubbed it "a 'Perry Mason' moment rarely seen inside an actual courtroom."

Castigating the officers for their "outrageous conduct," Cook County Circuit Judge Catherine Haberkorn granted a defense motion to suppress the search, which eliminated a basis for his arrest and resulted in a swift dismissal by prosecutors of the felony drug case against the 23-year-old.

"All the officers lied on the stand today," said Haberkorn, who herself is a former prosecutor, at the March 31 hearing. "So there is strong evidence it was conspiracy to lie in this case, for everyone to come up with the same lie."

The officers were later put on desk duty as investigations of their conduct proceed.

The Tribune says the Glenview arrest of Sperling last June came at the request of Chicago narcotics officers who had Sperling under surveillance. They asked local police to pull him over in a marked car, which occurred when Sperling allegedly failed to use his turn signal (he says he did). Then, one of the Chicago officers testified, he smelled marijuana as he waited for Sperling to produce his license and registration. Sperling testified he was never asked to do so.

The officer, supported by testimony from four other Chicago and Glenview officers, said he ordered Sperling to exit the vehicle and stand by the trunk as he searched it. However, the video shows the search didn't occur until after Sperling was sitting, handcuffed, in a police car.

Another discrepancy in testimony concerned the location of the backpack in which the marijuana was located: Police said it was in plain view on the back seat of the car. Sperling said it was under the seat.

If not for the video, which Sperling's lawyer Steven Goldman got by issuing a subpoena to the Glenview police department, and produced in rebuttal at the suppression hearing, Sperling likely would have been convicted and jailed, the attorney told the newspaper.

perjury that only results in paid desk duty.

[BigMeatballDave]

I wonder if there is a 3-strike law for DUIs?

[notorious]

I wonder if there is a 3-strike law for DUIs?

I have read stories about people having 6-7 DUI's.

There should be a 3-strike law IMO.

[ModSocks]

Rare ‘Perry Mason’ moment in court wins dismissal for defendant, desk duty for 5 police officers (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/rare_perry_mason_moment_at_trial_wins_acquittal_for_defendant_desk_duty_for/)

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. The guy had a brick of weed, got caught, and is getting off the hook because the cops didn't follow proper procedure. There is no "conspiracy" here. Just cops getting too bold and thinking that they don't have to follow procedure.

[notorious]

1. MLK didnt limit his ideas to civil rights and segregation. He has a lot of quotes and speeches in regards to unjust laws.

A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.




Humans being treated as equals is just a little different than recreation. Just a little.

[wazu]

I think that is a long time to be hanging in a cell for weed. On the other hand life is full of choices, we all have choices to make and this guy made some bad ones.

No. There's no "on the other hand" here. The punishment is absurd and ridiculous and in no way fits the crime. Not reflective of justice in any way, and an embarrassment for Missouri.

[planetdoc]

There is no "conspiracy" here. Just cops getting too bold and thinking that they don't have to follow procedure.

http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives-mobile/data/a7a57bf0-12e6d379-71512-e6d5-9e3d1c3316a9aa46.html?ownapi=1
The Chicago Police Department, as part of and empowered by the community, is committed to protect the lives, property, and rights of all people, to maintain order, and to enforce the law impartially. We will provide quality police service in partnership with other members of the community. To fulfill our mission, we will strive to attain the highest degree of ethical behavior and professional conduct at all times.”

Cook County Circuit Judge Catherine Haberkorn says this
All the officers lied on the stand today," said Haberkorn. "So there is strong evidence it was conspiracy to lie in this case, for everyone to come up with the same lie."

you might think that there was no conspiracy, but the judge does not.

Perjury is considered a crime against justice, since lying under oath compromises the authority of courts, grand juries, governing bodies, and public officials. State and federal penalties for perjury include fines and/or prison terms upon conviction. Federal law (18 USC § 1621), for example, states that anyone found guilty of the crime will be fined or imprisoned for up to five years. Most state laws have similar provisions.

link (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+32&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=74000000&SeqEnd=77100000)

[BigMeatballDave]

I think that is a long time to be hanging in a cell for weed. On the other hand life is full of choices, we all have choices to make and this guy made some bad ones.

Yep.

I love Marijuana. Since I've gotten my CDL, I cannot risk using any. A failed test and I lose it.

[ModSocks]

http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives-mobile/data/a7a57bf0-12e6d379-71512-e6d5-9e3d1c3316a9aa46.html?ownapi=1


Cook County Circuit Judge Catherine Haberkorn says this


you might think that there was no conspiracy, but the judge does not.



link (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+32&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=74000000&SeqEnd=77100000)

The judge is saying "Conspiracy" because the cops lied about following standard procedure. That's it. Period. The cops lied because they know they fucked up. The judge is merely saying, "if they lied about this, what else did you lie about?". That in itself doesn't mean that they planted a pound of weed in the guy's car.

The guy was being monitored for drug trafficking. You don't get that kind of attention unless you're involved or around a lot of suspicious activity. The odds are pretty damn good that he was selling weed. The idea that cops are running around with bricks of weed to plant on people is such a pot head idea. It sounds like something i'd read in High Times and it sounds like something someone with an agenda would say.

It's far, far more likely that he was selling weed, the cops got too excited and fucked up their bust.

This story does absolutely nothing for the fight against prohibition and as a smoker myself, i couldn't care less if the guy goes to jail for trafficking that much weed. I support recreational, legal use, not black market drug trafficking.

[planetdoc]

The judge is saying "Conspiracy" because the cops lied about following standard procedure. That's it. Period.

they lied under oath about the entire case. The entire case is fabricated. link (http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/15/videotape-reveals-chicago-officers-lying-court-felony-drug-case/)

they essentially had the defendant under observation but failed to get a warrant for a search. They said the reason for the traffic stop was "failure to use turn signal" and probable cause for search was "smelling marijuana." The video evidence contradicts that.

Rights violated:
4th ammendment (searches and seizures without warrant)
right to discovery (evidence regarding basis of stop fabricated)
perjury by witnesses in criminal case.

you can call it failing to "follow procedure." I call it illegal and undermining the criminal justice system.

I support recreational, legal use, not black market drug trafficking.

there is only a black market because in some places (such as Illinois) it is not legal.

what you are saying is the equivalent of someone during prohibition saying, " I am an alcohol drinker. I support recreational, legal use, not black market alcohol trafficking." Its hypocritical because, at one point, it was illegal throughout the USA.

[ModSocks]

they lied under oath about the entire case. The entire case is fabricated. link (http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/15/videotape-reveals-chicago-officers-lying-court-felony-drug-case/)

they essentially had the defendant under observation but failed to get a warrant for a search. They said the reason for the traffic stop was "failure to use turn signal" and probable cause for search was "smelling marijuana." The video evidence contradicts that.

Rights violated:
4th ammendment (searches and seizures without warrant)
right to discovery (evidence regarding basis of stop fabricated)
perjury by witnesses in criminal case.

you can call it failing to "follow procedure." I call it illegal and undermining the criminal justice system.



there is only a black market because in some places (such as Illinois) it is not legal.

what you are saying is the equivalent of someone during prohibition saying, " I am an alcohol drinker. I support recreational, legal use, not black market alcohol trafficking." Its hypocritical because, at one point, it was illegal throughout the USA.

Where does it say the entire story is fabricated? They lied about the order of events. They searched the car w/o a warrant (Not following procedure). That's what caused the case to be dismissed. Again, they knew they had something, didn't follow proper procedure and lied to cover their ass. That does not equate to conspiracy. It equates to being stupid about their bust. The cops were tipped off by a narcotics agent and got too ahead of themselves. I've seen cops do this before with my father.

The "defendent" has priors and has already been convicted for drug trafficking. But i'm sure it was just those big, bad cops out to conspire against and plant drugs on a nigga, huh?

Did the cops fuck up? of course they did. That doesn't absolve the guy or mean he was conspired against.

Casey Anthony wasn't convicted, but that doesn't mean that she's not a killer.

This guy got he case thrown out. That doesn't mean he's not selling drugs by the pound. He's been in jail several times before, and they'll get him again. Next time, they'll probably do it right.

[ModSocks]

they lied under oath about the entire case. The entire case is fabricated. link (http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/15/videotape-reveals-chicago-officers-lying-court-felony-drug-case/)



what you are saying is the equivalent of someone during prohibition saying, " I am an alcohol drinker. I support recreational, legal use, not black market alcohol trafficking." Its hypocritical because, at one point, it was illegal throughout the USA.

There is a lot of illegal activity around trafficking that kind of quantity. We are trying to move towards one goal. A safe, legal, consumer driven MJ market. I grew up around this shit. My dad was a trafficker for weed, meth and Heroin. He would take me with him all the time because he thought the cops wouldn't go after him with a kid in the car. I'm very well aware that while weed itself isn't that bad, this kind of black market that deals in these quantaties is toxic for communities and it needs to go away.

I want MJ legalized not because i think MJ is some great cure for cancer, or because i want to smoke pot freely wherever...i want it legalized so we can take the money and power away from people like this defendant here.

You can call me hypocritical all you want, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. Just because the cops fucked up and didn't do it the right way, that doesn't absolve this guy.

[htismaqe]

There is a lot of illegal activity around trafficking that kind of quantity. We are trying to move towards one goal. A safe, legal, consumer driven MJ market. I grew up around this shit. My dad was a trafficker for weed, meth and Heroin. He would take me with him all the time because he thought the cops wouldn't go after him with a kid in the car. I'm very well aware that while weed itself isn't that bad, this kind of black market that deals in these quantaties is toxic for communities and it needs to go away.

I want MJ legalized not because i think MJ is some great cure for cancer, or because i want to smoke pot freely wherever...i want it legalized so we can take the money and power away from people like this defendant here.

Excellent post.

[htismaqe]

As somebody that feels STRONGLY about the legalization of marijuana, this guy is a fucking hurdle.

We don't need guys like him being spokespeople for the movement. At all.

[ModSocks]

As somebody that feels STRONGLY about the legalization of marijuana, this guy is a ****ing hurdle.

We don't need guys like him being spokespeople for the movement. At all.

EXACTLY.

[notorious]

Detoxing wins today. Excellent post.

[BigMeatballDave]

I agree with everything that Detoxing has posted.

I think that Life for MJ trafficking is a travesty.

No doubt the guy is an idiot, though.

[J Diddy]

1. MLK didnt limit his ideas to civil rights and segregation. He has a lot of quotes and speeches in regards to unjust laws.

2. I would think MLK would be in favor of cannabis reform. The history of the laws itself were written to unfairly target minorities (mainly African Americans).


Most people don't know much about the famed MLK speech where he plainly says "I have a dream to smoke a spliff on the mountain top."

[htismaqe]

I agree with everything that Detoxing has posted.

I think that Life for MJ trafficking is a travesty.

No doubt the guy is an idiot, though.

I agree with you.

The only thing I would add is that he's not really serving a life sentence for trafficking weed.

He's serving a life sentence because he was too stupid to STOP trafficking weed.

[BigMeatballDave]

I agree with you.

The only thing I would add is that he's not really serving a life sentence for trafficking weed.

He's serving a life sentence because he was too stupid to STOP trafficking weed.

Heh, yeah. Good point.

[planetdoc]

Where does it say the entire story is fabricated? They lied about the order of events. They searched the car w/o a warrant (Not following procedure).

They didnt just lie about the ORDER of events. They lied about EVENTS as I've made clear before. They didnt have a warrant. They faked probable cause for the search (smelling marijuana).


That's what caused the case to be dismissed. Again, they knew they had something, didn't follow proper procedure and lied to cover their ass.

they is incorrect. They lied under oath, and it was proven wrong by video evidence AFTER they lied. It wasnt a "lie to cover their ass", they lied to fabricate the events that transpired (such as the legality of search due to probable cause).


That does not equate to conspiracy.

when 5 officers say the same lie (as the judge accused) that is a conspiracy to commit a crime (perjury). The officers perjured themselves, and they may have conspired as a group to give false testimony in the case.


The "defendent" has priors and has already been convicted for drug trafficking. But i'm sure it was just those big, bad cops out to conspire against and plant drugs on a ****a, huh?

I never said drugs were planted. I think you are ignorant of the meaning of the legal definition of "conspiracy."


Did the cops **** up? of course they did. That doesn't absolve the guy or mean he was conspired against.

yes it does absolve the guy and it does mean he was conspired against. refrence fruit of the poisonous tree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree).


Casey Anthony wasn't convicted, but that doesn't mean that she's not a killer.

legally she is not. morally is between her and God.



This guy got he case thrown out. That doesn't mean he's not selling drugs by the pound. He's been in jail several times before, and they'll get him again. Next time, they'll probably do it right.

that may be. I would hope law enforcement authorities dont stoop to breaking the law to catch other law breakers.

i want it legalized so we can take the money and power away from people like this defendant here.

I agree.


You can call me hypocritical all you want, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. Just because the cops ****ed up and didn't do it the right way, that doesn't absolve this guy.

this is simple economics. Making things illegal just restricts supply, and black markets will work on meeting demand. That is the case with drugs, prostitution, piracy, etc. Putting the blame entirely on those meeting the demand is disingenous when its policies that are creating the problem.

Most people don't know much about the famed MLK speech where he plainly says "I have a dream to smoke a spliff on the mountain top."

so do you disagree with what MLK said? you and others fail to address the content of his words and instead dismiss it based on the author. Here it is below for further reference.
A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.

[ModSocks]

They didnt just lie about the ORDER of events. They lied about EVENTS as I've made clear before. They didnt have a warrant. They faked probable cause for the search (smelling marijuana).



they is incorrect. They lied under oath, and it was proven wrong by video evidence AFTER they lied. It wasnt a "lie to cover their ass", they lied to fabricate the events that transpired (such as the legality of search due to probable cause).



when 5 officers say the same lie (as the judge accused) that is a conspiracy to commit a crime (perjury). The officers perjured themselves, and they may have conspired as a group to give false testimony in the case.



I never said drugs were planted. I think you are ignorant of the meaning of the legal definition of "conspiracy."



yes it does absolve the guy and it does mean he was conspired against. refrence fruit of the poisonous tree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree).



legally she is not. morally is between her and God.




that may be. I would hope law enforcement authorities dont stoop to breaking the law to catch other law breakers.



I agree.



this is simple economics. Making things illegal just restricts supply, and black markets will work on meeting demand. That is the case with drugs, prostitution, piracy, etc. Putting the blame entirely on those meeting the demand is disingenous when its policies that are creating the problem.



so do you disagree with what MLK said? you and others fail to address the content of his words and instead dismiss it based on the author. Here it is below for further reference.


What is your point? What are you arguing about? That the cops fucked up?

Ok, yes, i think we can all agree on that. The cops fucked up and didn't abide by the law to bust their man. And....?

[ModSocks]

The fact that the cops fucked up and acted too quickly doesn't change the fact that the dude was trafficking a brick.

Due to our legal process, the guy fucked up and got caught doing something illegal and was able to get away with it.

How does that help MJ prohibition?

All it proves is that the cops were right but were to stupid to follow procedure.

Again, how does that help the cause?

[planetdoc]

What is your point? What are you arguing about? That the cops ****ed up?

Ok, yes, i think we can all agree on that. The cops ****ed up and didn't abide by the law to bust their man. And....?

I was replying to all of your statements. There were some opinions I agreed with, while some of your statements were not accurate.

If you are having trouble understanding just read the quoted text (of your words) immediately followed by my reply to your quoted text.

[Mr. Laz]

The federal government just needs to legalize it and get it over with.

Grandfather in all crimes because they were still illegal when they occurred but revamp and streamline the parole/probation system so any marijuana crime that occurred without any other offense should be up for review/release immediately.

Lets me real here ... all the companies making money from jails are paying congress to keep pot illegal right now anyway. Congress is so corrupt, bought and paid for

They just INCREASED the amount that can be donated instead of reducing it, under the bullshit theory that donations are a form of free speech. Hogwash, it's just legalized bribery. You couldn't go down to the local courthouse and give a juror money to vote a certain way in a case and congress is the highest law making court in the land.

[Braincase]

Legalize it, tax it. Drunk driving NFL football players are a bigger hazard.

[Bwana]

No. There's no "on the other hand" here. The punishment is absurd and ridiculous and in no way fits the crime. Not reflective of justice in any way, and an embarrassment for Missouri.

The guy was stupid enough to put himself in a 3 strike position and now he is paying the price. You would think after the 2nd time he would say "hey, I really don't want to spend the rest of my days behind bars perhaps I shouldn't do that again." :hmmm:

[LoneWolf]

I would hope law enforcement authorities dont stoop to breaking the law to catch other law breakers.

I don't agree with this as a blanket statement. If the authorities know someone is a child molester, but can't prove it in a court of law. I don't give a shit if they fabricate evidence, lie on the stand, or do anything else to get that scumbag off of the streets.

[planetdoc]

I don't agree with this as a blanket statement. If the authorities know someone is a child molester, but can't prove it in a court of law. I don't give a shit if they fabricate evidence, lie on the stand, or do anything else to get that scumbag off of the streets.

slippery slope.

They once fabricated evidence, and lied on the stand to get the child molester off the street and I didnt give a shit.
They than fabricated evidence, and lied on the stand to get my friends and loved ones off the street and I didnt give a shit.
Than they came for me and there was no one left with shit to give.

It is the job of law enforcement to gather evidence, and the job of prosecutors to work toward conviction. I dont want a corrupted legal system where LEO act as the gatherer of evidence, judge, and executioner.

"protecting the children" has long been used as the excuse to give up liberty and freedom. Too many people have been wrongly convicted in the US (312 found by the innocence project alone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project))....lets not make that worse by condoning institutionalized corruption.

[Easy 6]

They just INCREASED the amount that can be donated instead of reducing it, under the bullshit theory that donations are a form of free speech. Hogwash, it's just legalized bribery. You couldn't go down to the local courthouse and give a juror money to vote a certain way in a case and congress is the highest law making court in the land.

That's an EXCELLENT analogy.

[TLO]

I'll roll and smoke a blunt just for him.

[J Diddy]

The federal government just needs to legalize it and get it over with.

Grandfather in all crimes because they will still illegal when they occurred but revamp and streamline the parole/probation system so any marijuana crime that occurred without any other offense should be up for review/release immediately.

Lets me real here ... all the companies making money from jails are paying congress to keep pot illegal right now anyway. Congress is so corrupt, bought and paid for

They just INCREASED the amount that can be donated instead of reducing it, under the bullshit theory that donations are a form of free speech. Hogwash, it's just legalized bribery. You couldn't go down to the local courthouse and give a juror money to vote a certain way in a case and congress is the highest law making court in the land.

There needs to be a constitutional amendment on term limits on all congressman and the system of bribery, erhhh, lobbying needs to be outlawed. The only way that will happen is if the people have had enough.

[Mr. Kotter]

Six pounds....just recreational use, heh.

[WhiteWhale]

The united states criminal justice system is a fucking travesty.

[Chaunceythe3rd]

What if it was a genetically engineered Venus fly trap that was capable of eating a human and it was created for the specific intent of throwing in your dog groomer? What then, huh? Huh? What then?

This. A thoughtful response and worthy of consideration. "What then?", indeed.

[Easy 6]

I understand the arguments that say "hey, this guy is so stupid maybe he doesn't deserve to be free"... but my bottom line is that the only reason someone should spend the rest of their life behind bars is either a serial rapist or a cold blooded murderer.

Being too stupid to look after his own best interests and stop selling in Missouri, doesn't mean he deserves to rot in jail the rest of his natural life for breaking outdated laws.

I'm willing to bet this guys story isn't over, hopefully enough light is shed on this to help make some legal changes.

[LoneWolf]

but my bottom line is that the only reason someone should spend the rest of their life behind bars is either a serial rapist or a cold blooded murderer.

Really?

[BigMeatballDave]

I understand the arguments that say "hey, this guy is so stupid maybe he doesn't deserve to be free"... but my bottom line is that the only reason someone should spend the rest of their life behind bars is either a serial rapist or a cold blooded murderer.

And Pedophiles.

[a pp roach]

sounds like a scam to get people's phone numbers on the radar

[Easy 6]

And Pedophiles.

Indeed, the rapists even uglier brother.

[Easy 6]

Really?

Yes, this guys pounds of weed weren't going to kill someone.

Its kind of an eye for an eye proposition to me, a wanton death calls for a death, a repeat and unrepentant rapist calls for death, pedo's call for death... anything beyond that isn't a fair trade IMO.

[htismaqe]

Yes, this guys pounds of weed weren't going to kill someone.

Its kind of an eye for an eye proposition to me, a wanton death calls for a death, a repeat and unrepentant rapist calls for death, pedo's call for death... anything beyond that isn't a fair trade IMO.

Dude, he got caught THREE times. At this point, it doesn't have anything to do with weed.

It has everything to do with him being stupid.

[BigMeatballDave]

Dude, he got caught THREE times. At this point, it doesn't have anything to do with weed.

It has everything to do with him being stupid.

Well, if we're basing this on stupidity, then there are some around here that deserve a life sentence...

:)

[Bump]

The amount of people on this site that are perfectly ok with a man serving life in prison for growing a plant while never being any sort of risk or danger to society, is unsurprising to say the least.

Obey citizen! Land of the free tho...

[J Diddy]

Six pounds....just recreational use, heh.

Have you never bought anything in bulk? He was being thrifty.

[BeeHo]

would he serve less if he had the same amount of drugs but with cocaine or meth?

[LoneWolf]

Yes, this guys pounds of weed weren't going to kill someone.

Its kind of an eye for an eye proposition to me, a wanton death calls for a death, a repeat and unrepentant rapist calls for death, pedo's call for death... anything beyond that isn't a fair trade IMO.

I can think of many more people who deserve to die, IMO. All Enron and AIG upper level executives. Anyone who kidnaps someone and holds them captive for years. John Elway and Peyton Manning, etc..

[LoneWolf]

The amount of people on this site that are perfectly ok with a man serving life in prison for growing a plant while never being any sort of risk or danger to society, is unsurprising to say the least.

Obey citizen! Land of the free tho...

He's not serving life in prison for growing a plant. He's serving life in prison for being colossally stupid.

[Mr. Laz]

many better options


shit, would rather just kick him out of the country than jail him forever


You have 2 choices Mr. Mizanskey, spend your life in jail or give up citizenship and leave the U.S. forever. Which is it?

[Iconic]

He's not serving life in prison for growing a plant. He's serving life in prison for being colossally stupid.

... and that's okay with you?

[LoneWolf]

... and that's okay with you?

I think it's a waste of resources to pay to keep him imprisoned, but I don't feel one ounce of empathy for him or think he's being wronged in any way.

[Easy 6]

Dude, he got caught THREE times. At this point, it doesn't have anything to do with weed.

It has everything to do with him being stupid.

When lives aren't taken and innocence isn't destroyed in the most vile ways possible... being stupid simply doesn't rise to the level of life imprisonment.

It is, in essence, a death sentence... over laws that shouldn't be that harsh in the first place, regardless of what a heedless fool he is... "whats wrong with this guy? second strike in Missouri? time to get the hell out", I get that.

But still, LIFE for a petty drug, in any amount, is garbage.

[Easy 6]

I can think of many more people who deserve to die, IMO. All Enron and AIG upper level executives. Anyone who kidnaps someone and holds them captive for years. John Elway and Peyton Manning, etc..

Aint a damn thing I would correct here.

[Ragged Robin]

Marijuana is dangerous because.. um.. lolgovernment.

[htismaqe]

I think it's a waste of resources to pay to keep him imprisoned, but I don't feel one ounce of empathy for him or think he's being wronged in any way.

This.

[htismaqe]

When lives aren't taken and innocence isn't destroyed in the most vile ways possible... being stupid simply doesn't rise to the level of life imprisonment.

It is, in essence, a death sentence... over laws that shouldn't be that harsh in the first place, regardless of what a heedless fool he is... "whats wrong with this guy? second strike in Missouri? time to get the hell out", I get that.

But still, LIFE for a petty drug, in any amount, is garbage.

No, it's not a death sentence. It's a "we guarantee he can't reproduce" sentence.

Like I said, I am a big advocate for legalization and reforming ridiculous marijuana laws. But let's not pretend that all this guy did was get caught with some weed.

He's clinically stupid AND his entire case is counterproductive to the REAL change we need. The mainstream media and main street politicians just picked up another bullet in the fight AGAINST what is just and right, thanks to this moron.

[BigMeatballDave]

many better options


shit, would rather just kick him out of the country than jail him forever


You have 2 choices Mr. Mizanskey, spend your life in jail or give up citizenship and leave the U.S. forever. Which is it?Not a bad idea. Continue to break the rules and we'll ship your ass to Afghanistan.

[Easy 6]

No, it's not a death sentence. It's a "we guarantee he can't reproduce" sentence.

Like I said, I am a big advocate for legalization and reforming ridiculous marijuana laws. But let's not pretend that all this guy did was get caught with some weed.

He's clinically stupid AND his entire case is counterproductive to the REAL change we need. The mainstream media and main street politicians just picked up another bullet in the fight AGAINST what is just and right, thanks to this moron.

I wont disagree with any of your basic points, but I still think life in prison is way over the line.

People who KILL other people during DUI's don't get LIFE sentences fer cripe pete... six pounds of weed < human life.

[Just Passin' By]

I wont disagree with any of your basic points, but I still think life in prison is way over the line.

People who KILL other people during DUI's don't get LIFE sentences fer cripe pete... six pounds of weed < human life.

Your issue is with laws which mandate life imprisonment, then, not with the weed laws.

Project clients have been given life sentences for offenses including stealing one dollar in loose change from a parked car, possessing less than a gram of narcotics, and attempting to break into a soup kitchen.

http://www.law.stanford.edu/organizations/programs-and-centers/stanford-three-strikes-project/three-strikes-basics

[Carlota69]

Just legalize it already. All this shit is so senseless and a waste of taxpayer money.

It's a new economy and this country needs to think outside the box. Legalize it, tax the shit out of it, and lets move on to other things.

[htismaqe]

Just legalize it already. All this shit is so senseless and a waste of taxpayer money.

It's a new economy and this country needs to think outside the box. Legalize it, tax the shit out of it, and lets move on to other things.

Totally agree.

[planetdoc]

https://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/prison-occupancy-rate.png

US has more prisoners than all the other listed countries combined, and the country is still not over capacity.

Here is the incarceration rate (prisoners per 100,000 population)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Prisoner_population_rate_world_2012_map.png/800px-Prisoner_population_rate_world_2012_map.png

Here is the incarceration rate in the US over time
https://i.imgur.com/aON7BYc.gif

[GloucesterChief]

Your issue is with laws which mandate life imprisonment, then, not with the weed laws.


No, my issue is with the weed laws because drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place.

[Marcellus]

No, my issue is with the weed laws because drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place.

Yea they should sell cocaine and meth at WalMart. No harm would come of it.

[Ragged Robin]

Yea they should sell cocaine and meth at WalMart. No harm would come of it.

Dat slippery slope.

[Anyong Bluth]

Also check out this one - Florida guy lets his buddy borrow his car not knowing he was going to rob some lady of a pound of weed. Somehow the 18 year old daughter of the drug dealer dies, and the guy who let his friend borrow his car is charged including the felony murder rule and has been in jail for 11 years already serving life without parole ! That's fucked up.

Link to follow.
http://www.thenation.com/article/178984/why-florida-man-facing-life-prison-lending-out-his-car-and-going-sleep#


Man Gets Life In Prison For Loaning His Car: http://youtu.be/Q-PLKwJX9-8

[GloucesterChief]

Yea they should sell cocaine and meth at WalMart. No harm would come of it.

Never said there would be no downsides but considering the disaster prohibition has been everywhere it has been tried in every category I think I can safely say that legalized drugs would be less harmful then continuing prohibition.

[Marcellus]

Never said there would be no downsides but considering the disaster prohibition has been everywhere it has been tried in every category I think I can safely say that legalized drugs would be less harmful then continuing prohibition.

Thats like saying a lady finger and a stick of dynamite have the same level of danger.

At some point you have to use common sense.

Weed? OK legalize it.

Meth, coke, and heroin? **** no.

[planetdoc]

Man Gets Life In Prison For Loaning His Car: http://youtu.be/Q-PLKwJX9-8

from his wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Holle),

Holle, who had given the police statements in which he seemed to admit knowing about the burglary

In a 2007 interview with The New York Times, Holle stated that "I honestly thought they were going to get food," adding that "When they actually mentioned what was going on, I thought it was a joke."

what a shitty situation. One would think there is enough reasonable doubt to keep him from being convicted, but then again he probably had awful legal representation and he was lumped in with the others.

[planetdoc]

Weed? OK legalize it.

Meth, coke, and heroin? **** no.

As a physician I am all for drug legalization.
allopathic medicine should not be legalized drug dealing.

[BigMeatballDave]

from his wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Holle),





what a shitty situation. One would think there is enough reasonable doubt to keep him from being convicted, but then again he probably had awful legal representation and he was lumped in with the others.
Worst jury panel, ever.

There is No WAY I would vote to convict. How could you?

[MOhillbilly]

Lots of uncool rednecks in missouri.

[Marcellus]

As a physician I am all for drug legalization.
allopathic medicine should not be legalized drug dealing.


As a non physician some of the most ridiculously clueless people I have met have been PHD's. Something about adding that Dr title seems to make people stop thinking clearly.

They are all really smart, but most are clueless when it comes to reality. And I deal with a ton of them in my line of work.

You dont seem to be the exception

[Marcellus]

And BTW meth and heroin dont really have any allopathic uses but like I said, I cant expect common sense dealing with you.

[GloucesterChief]

Thats like saying a lady finger and a stick of dynamite have the same level of danger.

At some point you have to use common sense.

Weed? OK legalize it.

Meth, coke, and heroin? **** no.

Why not?

You do realize that most of the deaths from those drugs come from it being illegal right? The user doesn't know what the drugs were cut with or what the purity of the drug is. Those problems go away when you legalize because suddenly the suppliers are liable for their product.

[planetdoc]

As a non physician some of the most ridiculously clueless people I have met have been PHD's. Something about adding that Dr title seems to make people stop thinking clearly.

They are all really smart, but most are clueless when it comes to reality. And I deal with a ton of them in my line of work.

You dont seem to be the exception

instead of beating around the bush to say I'm clueless, why dont you share why currently illegal drugs should not be legalized?

[LoneWolf]

instead of beating around the bush to say I'm clueless, why dont you share why currently illegal drugs should not be legalized?

Why don't you tell us what good can come from legalizing heroin, meth, coke, etc.

[planetdoc]

And BTW meth and heroin dont really have any allopathic uses but like I said, I cant expect common sense dealing with you.

heroin is an opoid (just like morphine), and has analgesic properties.
methamphetamine is a stimulant.

amphetamines and opiods are used to treat disease or manage their side-effects. To claim that heroin and meth dont have allopathic uses is absurd.

[Anyong Bluth]

heroin is an opoid (just like morphine), and has analgesic properties.
methamphetamine is a stimulant.

amphetamines and opiods are used to treat disease or manage their side-effects. To claim that heroin and meth dont have allopathic uses is absurd.

Ya- only your currently top prescribed drug for ADD/HD.

[Mr. Kotter]

Just legalize it already. All this shit is so senseless and a waste of taxpayer money.

It's a new economy and this country needs to think outside the box. Legalize it, tax the shit out of it, and lets move on to other things.

Agree, pretty much. But under current law, SIX POUNDS, really???....dude is just stupid dumb, beyond the pale.

Jail might at least keep him from reproducing much??? Just sayin'....heh. ;)

[Mr. Kotter]

heroin is an opoid (just like morphine), and has analgesic properties.
methamphetamine is a stimulant.

amphetamines and opiods are used to treat disease or manage their side-effects. To claim that heroin and meth dont have allopathic uses is absurd.

:spock:

Seriously, a "real" doc??? Arkansas, or West Virginia...sir???

https://www.google.com/search?q=before+and+after+meth+pictures&biw=1322&bih=690&tbm=isch&imgil=AJbXkRxWYPCqoM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQp4slFnVR8YCHsin9rhrljnwnbEjyksaFYpBj_qjrg9ot9bD GEuA%253B1024%253B768%253BxG5XhVls12Uc4M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.independent.co.uk%25252Fvo ices%25252Fiv-drip%25252Fthe-shocking-before-and-after-pictures-of-meth-addicts--warning-disturbing-images-8392937.html&source=iu&usg=__BpPCDSUgpQEej3brOkwsGjNi_2g%3D&sa=X&ei=MhhTU6ncNabs2gWK_YGADQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=tpMvt92XMo93PM%253A%3Bq9dnJlDbl6EKiM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.dailymail.co.uk%252Fi%252Fpix%252F 2012%252F12%252F06%252Farticle-2244031-1661E4C1000005DC-72_1024x615_large.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Fnews%252Farticle-2244031%252FThe-horror-Meth-Before-pictures-reveal-shocking-transformation-faces-users-hooked-deadly-drug.html%3B1024%3B615


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/06/article-2244031-1661E4C1000005DC-72_1024x615_large.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=q9dnJlDbl6EKiM&tbnid=tpMvt92XMo93PM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2244031%2FThe-horror-Meth-Before-pictures-reveal-shocking-transformation-faces-users-hooked-deadly-drug.html&ei=fRhTU6rxB4eF8gHU5oC4AQ&bvm=bv.65058239,d.b2I&psig=AFQjCNElILMhzLE34taJYZhlqdgsfo9kzg&ust=1398041014770225)

All righty....then.... :banghead:

[planetdoc]

Why don't you tell us what good can come from legalizing heroin, meth, coke, etc.

all drugs should be legal. An adult of sound mind should have the ability to do with their body as they please. Any "sin" would be against themself. Just like alcohol, a consenting adult should be free to partake of whichever drug they use (and accept the consequences of their actions). Just like those who abuse alcohol, their are means of dealing with any crimes that come from abuse (DWI, DUI, theft, etc.). Just like alcohol, not all users are abusers. In essence, self-medicating should not be illegal.

In medicine we have the principle of autonomy. Respect for autonomy includes respecting an individual’s right to self-determination as well as creating the conditions necessary for autonomous choice. Thus my job is to provide patients with the knowledge so that they can make an informed decision. I try to avoid a paternalistic relationship with my patients, and I dont think that the government should have a "nanny" state relationship with citizens telling them what they should and shouldnt eat, drink, smoke, shoot-up, etc.

As for other reasons why heroin, meth, coke, etc should be legal:

1. Legalizing drugs would make our streets and homes safer.
2. End prison overcrowding.
3. Drug legalization would free up police resources to fight non-drug related crimes against people and property.
4. Unclog the court system.
5. Reduce corruption of officials.
6. Legalization would save tax money.
7. Legalized drugs would cripple organized crime.
8. Legal drugs would be safer. Legalization is a consumer protection issue.
9. Legalization would slow the spread of AIDS and other diseases.
10. Legalization would halt the erosion of other civil liberties.
11. Legalization would stabilize foreign countries and make them safer for residents and travelers.
12. Legalization would repair U.S. relations with other countries and curtail anti-American sentiment around the world.

[Mr. Kotter]

As a physician I am all for drug legalization.
allopathic medicine should not be legalized drug dealing.

Er, eh...MJ is one thing. But, seriously....the rest??? :spock:

What does the AMA think about your proposal? Why are you more credible than them? :shrug: Thanks, in advance, for your response.

FWIW, any doc who has time to spend here that you seem to...well, heh, it's "interesting" to say the least....

[planetdoc]

What does the AMA think about your proposal?

I havent proposed anything with the AMA


Why are you more credible than them?

1. i never claimed I was.
2. AMA doesnt speak for all physicians
3. AMA (and physicians) have made mistakes in the past. Thus medicine is considered a "practice" and the way its practiced evolves based on a review of literature.


FWIW, any doc who has time to spend here that you seem to...well, heh, it's "interesting" to say the least....

1. as a whole I dont work weekends.
2. I agree I waste too much time here corresponding with those who, as a whole, are idiots. I was just thinking recently where I could go to converse with more intelligent people (like a Mensa forum), but than realized that those forums that exist wouldnt give that info out.

[planetdoc]

last thought for tonight (since Kotter has made it clear I waste too much time here):

Education should go hand in hand with legalization. Patients/consumers should have the opportunity and availability to knowledge so they can make an informed decision of what they are consuming.

want to use drug X to self-treat Y? here is exactly how much you should safely use, here are the side-effects, here is what to do if you have problems, who to call, and where to go if you need help as well as other recommendations (such as having a sitter for safety).

I think we would all be better off if we treat our fellow man with love and compassion, instead of condemning them as criminals for their choices of self-medication.

happy easter everybody.

[LoneWolf]

1. Legalizing drugs would make our streets and homes safer.
Yes, more drug users that will do anything to get their next fix would make our streets safer. Are you ****ing retarded?
2. End prison overcrowding.
The drugs would still cost money and as you had more people getting addicted and not able to afford their habit you would see other crimes like theft increase. Prisons would still be full, but they would be full of drug addicts charged with other crimes.
3. Drug legalization would free up police resources to fight non-drug related crimes against people and property.
These other crimes you speak of would be on a steady increase so police resources would be just as busy.
4. Unclog the court system.
see above
5. Reduce corruption of officials.
Why? There would just be something else to cause corruption.
6. Legalization would save tax money.
We would increase tax revenue due to drug sales and decrease revenue due to less people being able to hold a job because they're junkies.
7. Legalized drugs would cripple organized crime.
organized crime would either find something else or sell drugs cheaper.
8. Legal drugs would be safer. Legalization is a consumer protection issue.
so not only would we have more drug addicts around, they would also be living longer. Great plan, Einstein.
9. Legalization would slow the spread of AIDS and other diseases.
Great! More junkies living longer. Brilliant!
10. Legalization would halt the erosion of other civil liberties.
11. Legalization would stabilize foreign countries and make them safer for residents and travelers.
Let's stabilize other countries while destroying ours. Once again, Brilliant!
12. Legalization would repair U.S. relations with other countries and curtail anti-American sentiment around the world.
You're right. Other countries hate us because of our illegal drugs.

Did your Phd come with a lollipop and 25% off coupon at Old Navy?

[Bugeater]

Looks like findthedr has finally returned to the board.

[planetdoc]

Did your Phd come with a lollipop and 25% off coupon at Old Navy?

1. I dont have a phd dipshit.

2. your responses below are based on fear and not based on evidence. You seem to believe that there would be more junkies with drug legalization which would lead to more crime. Where is the evidence? We already have the evidence that the US war on drugs is a failure. Policy should be based on evidence and not conjecture.


Yes, more drug users that will do anything to get their next fix would make our streets safer. Are you ****ing retarded?

- reference portugal.

-those who will want to get their fix can get it. If it is legalized than it would be easily available, cheaper, and cleaner


The drugs would still cost money and as you had more people getting addicted and not able to afford their habit you would see other crimes like theft increase. Prisons would still be full, but they would be full of drug addicts charged with other crimes.

-reference portugal, and now US states that have legalized marijuana.

- you keep talking about afford the habit. the only reason drugs are expensive is because its a black market. Not all users are abuser nor do they all break other laws. Those who abuse and break other laws should have an opportunity for rehab.


These other crimes you speak of would be on a steady increase so police resources would be just as busy.

there is pretty good data around the world on this now, and you are incorrect.


4. Unclog the court system. see above
yes, see above.


Why? There would just be something else to cause corruption.

drugs are not the only reason for corruption, but it should be 1 less reason. Whatever the "other reason" is you speak of, it would still exist today while drugs are illegal (essentially keeping drugs illegal isnt preventing a form of corruption from taking hold).


6. Legalization would save tax money.
We would increase tax revenue due to drug sales and decrease revenue due to less people being able to hold a job because they're junkies.

reference portugal as well as other places that have some form of drug legalization. I agree there would be an increased tax revenue from drug sales (as seen in Colorado).



7. Legalized drugs would cripple organized crime.
organized crime would either find something else or sell drugs cheaper.
that is the free market. that being said, US alcohol prohibition has great evidence on the results of decriminalizing alcohol on organized crime. On a per-capita basis, members of organized crime, particularly at the top, stand to lose the most from legalizing the drug trade.



so not only would we have more drug addicts around, they would also be living longer. Great plan, Einstein.

thanks.



9. Legalization would slow the spread of AIDS and other diseases.
Great! More junkies living longer. Brilliant!
thanks


Let's stabilize other countries while destroying ours. Once again, Brilliant

what happens in other countries many times does directly affect the US in blowback. The events of September 11th is a recent example of that.

those who fail to learn from history will soon repeat it.


You're right. Other countries hate us because of our illegal drugs.

its a complex issue that you fail to grasp. The US drug policy (and forcing other countries to conform) have had lasting and serious consequences around the world. The US war on drugs has led to worldwide conflicts and destabilized other countries.

[htismaqe]

Looks like findthedr has finally returned to the board.

I KNEW IT.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=283064

[planetdoc]

2 former LA deputies accused of planting guns to justify medical marijuana dispensary arrests (http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/04/23/43721/2-former-la-deputies-accused-of-planting-guns-to-j/)

Prosecutors say two former Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies planted guns to justify arrests at a medical marijuana dispensary in 2011.

The district attorney's office said Wednesday that Julio Cesar Martinez and Anthony Manuel Paez were each charged with conspiracy and alteration of evidence by a peace officer. Martinez is also charged with perjury and filing a false report.

The allegations involve the deputies' report about witnessing a narcotics transaction and seeing a suspect with a gun. Martinez allegedly also wrote that he followed one suspect into the dispensary and saw two firearms, one on a desk next to ecstasy pills.

Investigators say a video recording is inconsistent with the deputies' statements.

[Johnny Vegas]

Did your Phd come with a lollipop and 25% off coupon at Old Navy?

you better spray some windex on your crystal ball. looking a little foggy...I mean since you know what happens and all...

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

[planetdoc]

The Impact of State Medical Marijuana Legislation on Adolescent Marijuana Use (http://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X%2814%2900107-4/abstract)
This study did not find increases in adolescent marijuana use related to legalization of medical marijuana.

The estimation sample was 11,703,100 students. Across years and states, past-month marijuana use was common (20.9%, 95% confidence interval 20.3–21.4). There were no statistically significant differences in marijuana use before and after policy change for any state pairing. In the regression analysis, we did not find an overall increased probability of marijuana use related to the policy change (marginal probability .007, 95% confidence interval −.007, .02).

[SeeingRed]

Ridiculous waste of taxpayer money and inhumane sentence. If I lived in the state this guy was time in i would definitely be pissed off

[Contrarian]

Your marijuana laws in Missouri and Kansas are never gonna change if you don't get out of the oppressive republican shadow those states are in. You locals vote them into office off of social prejudice and financial oppression or financial greed. You wanna smoke a doob legally in those states elect a democrat or a libertarian. Until then your under the thumb of ignorant good ole boy white government.

[patteeu]

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. The guy had a brick of weed, got caught, and is getting off the hook because the cops didn't follow proper procedure. There is no "conspiracy" here. Just cops getting too bold and thinking that they don't have to follow procedure.

When they all get together before going to court to get their false stories straight, it's a conspiracy. We shouldn't tolerate lying cops even when they're lying to convict guilty people.

[Anyong Bluth]

When they all get together before going to court to get their false stories straight, it's a conspiracy. We shouldn't tolerate lying cops even when they're lying to convict guilty people.

Agreed.

I'm sure others around here are familiar with a "ham sandwich".

A badge doesn't magically make one inhuman- for both good and bad inherent in the nature of man.

[htismaqe]

Your marijuana laws in Missouri and Kansas are never gonna change if you don't get out of the oppressive republican shadow those states are in. You locals vote them into office off of social prejudice and financial oppression or financial greed. You wanna smoke a doob legally in those states elect a democrat or a libertarian. Until then your under the thumb of ignorant good ole boy white government.

Sorry but that's BS.

This legislature in this state has been controlled by Democrats for the better part of the last 20 years. We were one of the first states in the entire country to legalize gay marriage.

We're no closer to legalizing marijuana than we were 10 years ago.

[LoneWolf]

you better spray some windex on your crystal ball. looking a little foggy...I mean since you know what happens and all...

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

The discussion I was having with planetdipshit was around legalization of all drugs like cocaine, heroin, etc... I have no problem with marijuana being legal.

[planetdoc]

Sentenced to life in prison, man hopes new clemency rules will get him out (http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/26/justice/sentencing-clemency/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
(highlights of cnn article)
Timothy Tyler says his life ended when he was 23-years-old. That was two decades ago, when he was arrested and later sentenced to a mandatory double-life term in prison without the possibility of parole for conspiracy to possess LSD with intent to distribute. A self-described "Deadhead," Tyler was busted after mailing five grams of the hallucinogenic drug to a friend who was working as an informant for the federal government.

Though the Obama administration has been campaigning for prison reform for some time, it has recently begun to take concrete steps to alleviate overcrowded federal prisons that are flooded with non-violent offenders.

And in April, the U.S. Sentencing Commission voted unanimously to back a Justice Department proposal to change the sentencing formula for drug offenders that could shorten prison stays for as many as 70% of federal drug defendants.
--------------------------------------------

In the USA, LSD is classified as schedule 1 which is meant for drugs that have a high potential for abuse + no currently acceptable medical use + lack of acceptable safety for use. All of which is not true.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Drug_danger_and_dependence.svg

LSD has an extremely low likelihood of dependence, and their are no known human fatalities from LSD consumption (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00059.x/abstract;jsessionid=E805C2069B5A9A839B3108BE9DAAC09D.f01t01). LSD is schedule 3 in Canada and the UK.

[planetdoc]

End The War On Drugs, Say Nobel Prize-Winning Economists (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/06/end-drug-war_n_5275078.html)
(highlights)
The decades-long global war on drugs has failed and it's time to shift the focus from mass incarceration to public health and human rights, according to a new report endorsed by five Nobel Prize-winning economists.

The report, titled "Ending the Drug Wars" and put together by the London School of Economics' IDEAS center, looks at the high costs and unintended consequences of drug prohibitions on public health and safety, national security and law enforcement.

"The pursuit of a militarized and enforcement-led global ‘war on drugs’ strategy has produced enormous negative outcomes and collateral damage," says the 82-page report. "These include mass incarceration in the US, highly repressive policies in Asia, vast corruption and political destabilization in Afghanistan and West Africa, immense violence in Latin America, an HIV epidemic in Russia, an acute global shortage of pain medication and the propagation of systematic human rights abuses around the world."

The report urges the world's governments to reframe their drug policies around treatment and harm reduction rather than prosecution and prison.

It is also aimed at the United Nations General Assembly, which is preparing to convene a special session on drug policy in 2016. The hope is to push the U.N. to encourage countries to develop their own policies, because the report declares the current one-size-fits-all approach has not proved to be effective.

Full 82 pg report (http://www.lse.ac.uk/IDEAS/publications/reports/pdf/LSE-IDEAS-DRUGS-REPORT-FINAL-WEB.pdf)

[planetdoc]

A whopping 98.7 percent of marijuana arrests in Illinois were cases involving simple possession (http://www.roosevelt.edu/News_and_Events/News_Articles/2014/20140516-Marijuanastudy.aspx)

Illinois ranked fifth in the nation for the number of marijuana arrests made in 2010, and the state ranked first in the country for its high proportion of marijuana possession arrests vs. marijuana sales/distribution arrests. A whopping 98.7 percent of marijuana arrests in Illinois were cases involving simple possession, according to the study.

n 2013 alone, the study calculated between 24,000 and 63,000 hours may have been spent by Chicago police arresting marijuana misdemeanants, with costs associated with the arrests ranging from $25 million to $116 million.

[Anyong Bluth]

A whopping 98.7 percent of marijuana arrests in Illinois were cases involving simple possession (http://www.roosevelt.edu/News_and_Events/News_Articles/2014/20140516-Marijuanastudy.aspx)

That's shocking as I was under the impression that the city cared very little about people who were holding so long as it was basically within personal use amounts.

[Mr. Laz]

The faster legalization process happens, the better.

Then all the simple possession cases can be put of for review/parole.

should open up tons of room in the prisons for violent offenders

[Coochie liquor]

The faster legalization process happens, the better.

Then all the simple possession cases can be put of for review/parole.

should open up tons of room in the prisons for violent offenders

Too bad the jails feel the need to be overcrowded to get more tax dollars for improvement and building new jails. Been through all that before.

[planetdoc]

The World Health Organization calls for the decriminalisation of drug use (http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/world-health-organization-calls-decriminalisation-drug-use)

The United Nations' leading health agency, the World Health Organization, has called on countries around the world to end the criminalisation of people who use drugs.

In the report, the WHO says:

“Countries should work toward developing policies and laws that decriminalize injection and other use of drugs and, thereby, reduce incarceration.
Countries should work toward developing policies and laws that decriminalize the use of clean needles and syringes (and that permit NSPs[needle and syringe programs]) and that legalize OST [opiate substitution treatment] for people who are opioid-dependent.
Countries should ban compulsory treatment for people who use and/or inject drugs ”

The report also highlights Portugal's success in decriminalising personal drug possession and treating drug use as a health, rather than a criminal justice, issue.

[planetdoc]

Drug offenders in federal prisons can seek shortened sentences (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2014/0718/Drug-offenders-in-federal-prisons-can-seek-shortened-sentences-video)
(highlights)
Under new US sentencing guidelines, 46,000 federal inmates would be able to shave about two years off stiff punishments meted out during America's 'war on drugs.'

The US Sentencing Commission, an independent agency in the federal judiciary charged with establishing appropriate punishments for federal crimes, had already overhauled its drug-sentencing guidelines in April, reducing prison sentences for those newly convicted of selling or possessing drugs of any type.

On Friday, the commission voted unanimously to apply these new, more lenient sentences to those who are already serving time.

The commission’s vote comes amid a rising consensus across the country of the need to roll back the harsh terms of an earlier era. The federal prison system is now 32 percent over capacity, officials say, and many state prison systems are also weighed down by nonviolent drug offenders.

"As we continue the march toward fairness in our country’s failed, racially biased sentencing policies, we can’t leave behind those who had the bad luck to receive their sentences before the policies were changed," said Jesselyn McCurdy, senior counsel with the American Civil Liberties Union, in a statement. "Making these new guidelines retroactive will offer relief to thousands of people who received overly harsh sentences under the old sentencing guidelines.”

[MIAdragon]

Can't post a link but he's a free man

[seclark]

Can't post a link but he's a free man

http://ktvo.com/news/local/missouri-man-with-life-sentence-for-pot-offenses-to-be-freed-09-01-2015
EFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A Missouri man sentenced to life without parole for marijuana-related offenses is set to be released from prison.

Jeff Mizanskey's attorney says he will be released Tuesday from the Jefferson City Correctional Center after spending more than two decades behind bars.

Police say Mizanskey conspired to sell 6 pounds of pot to a dealer connected to Mexican drug cartels.

He was sentenced and convicted as a persistent drug offender under Missouri law. The law allowed life without parole for people with three felony drug convictions. It's since been changed.

Missouri's Democratic Gov. Jay Nixon commuted Mizanskey's sentence in May, making him eligible for parole.

Mizanskey's attorney says the man's son and grandchildren are expected to meet him once he's released.

[BigMeatballDave]

Is Missouri getting legalization on the ballet this year?

I'll be voting for it here in Ohio in November.