Which QB will be the best pro?

[BossChief]

Poll forthcoming

[ModSocks]

The one not drafted by KC

[ModSocks]

Poll forthcoming

That's what she said!

[BlackHelicopters]

Whoever Indy or Den drafts.

[Canofbier]

I went with Bridgewater. His stock has fallen quite a bit over the past few months and I really don't understand why. His Pro Day was lacking, but he's been consistently good in a complicated offense which he's gotten better in each year. If the Chiefs do grab a QB, I think I'd like it to be him.

[CoMoChief]

Aaron Murray

end of thread.

[DaveNull]

The one not drafted by KC

That's what she said!

Close the thread. Detoxing won.

[Chief Roundup]

Aaron Murray

[keg in kc]

Other. AJ McCarren.

[Discuss Thrower]

Teddy Ballgame.

[The Franchise]

It's hard to say based simply on whether or not they're drafted by a team that's a good fit for them. Bridgewater in a West Coast offense? Awesome.

[OldSchool]

Carr. If Arizona takes him, which I think is a very high possibility, he's going to have a fun time playing in Arians' offense while throwing passes to Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd after sitting and learning for a year behind Palmer.

[htismaqe]

It's hard to say based simply on whether or not they're drafted by a team that's a good fit for them. Bridgewater in a West Coast offense? Awesome.

Look at what Andy Reid did with Jeff Garcia, for example. Or Alex Smith.

Don't tell me you don't think Andy Reid could get production out of Manziel.

That's ultimately why I like Manziel more than the others - I think he's the perfect Andy Reid QB.

[ModSocks]

Look at what Andy Reid did with Jeff Garcia, for example. Or Alex Smith.

Don't tell me you don't think Andy Reid could get production out of Manziel.

That's ultimately why I like Manziel more than the others - I think he's the perfect Andy Reid QB.

And you don't think Carr would flourish under Reid as well?

[The Franchise]

Look at what Andy Reid did with Jeff Garcia, for example. Or Alex Smith.

Don't tell me you don't think Andy Reid could get production out of Manziel.

That's ultimately why I like Manziel more than the others - I think he's the perfect Andy Reid QB.

I'm not a huge fan of Manziel as a person....but once he's a Chief....I wouldn't care. Bring us that trophy and you're good in my book.

[Dayze]

McCarron would be a good fit for any team that has a good running game. not the strongest arm in the world, but very smart. I could see him with the Vikings.

[htismaqe]

And you don't think Carr would flourish under Reid as well?

Not to the degree that I think Manziel could.

[htismaqe]

I'm not a huge fan of Manziel as a person....but once he's a Chief....I wouldn't care. Bring us that trophy and you're good in my book.

Yeah, I think Johnny is giant fucking douchebag and I've said as much.

But when I look at what he brings to the table and put it into the context of what Andy Reid does, I see a lot of wins there...

[The Franchise]

I would be just fine with Bridgewater, Manziel or Carr at #23.

[htismaqe]

McCarron would be a good fit for any team that has a good running game. not the strongest arm in the world, but very smart. I could see him with the Vikings.

I don't think the Vikings are gonna settle. McCarron is too much like Ponder...

[DeezNutz]

I'm not a huge fan of Manziel as a person....but once he's a Chief....I wouldn't care. Bring us that trophy and you're good in my book.

ND fan thinks Johnny Football is a douche? Sorry, dude, but that's ironic.

[RunKC]

Look at what Andy Reid did with Jeff Garcia, for example. Or Alex Smith.

Don't tell me you don't think Andy Reid could get production out of Manziel.

That's ultimately why I like Manziel more than the others - I think he's the perfect Andy Reid QB.

I feel this way about Bridgewater and I think Carr is a QB Dorsey would love to have.

[htismaqe]

I feel this way about Bridgewater and I think Carr is a QB Dorsey would love to have.

Honestly, I think Reid could work well with any of the three. Reid has always been very adaptable when it comes to QBs.

I just think he could do MORE with Manziel than he could with the other 2.

[Tribal Warfare]

I'd take Bortles, haven't seen enough Carr to give him a fair evaluation

[The Franchise]

I'd take Bortles, haven't seen enough Carr to give him a fair evaluation

I don't see Bortles falling that far.

[Tribal Warfare]

I don't see Bortles falling that far.

Yep, I was calling this kid before the media hype.

[BossChief]

I'm with Htis on this.

Manziel just has wayy too many uncoachable talents and instincts that if paired with a true teacher if the game like Andy Reid could be an elite quarterback in this league for a long time.

My only concern with him is that he probably wouldn't live in KC year round due to his lifestyle.

[DeezNutz]

That wouldn't concern me in the least.

[Tribal Warfare]

I'm with Htis on this.

Manziel just has wayy too many uncoachable talents and instincts that if paired with a true teacher if the game like Andy Reid could be an elite quarterback in this league for a long time.

My only concern with him is that he probably wouldn't live in KC year round due to his lifestyle.


He has great talent, but will it be fully realized due to immature decisions like wanting to live the Joe Willy Namath lifestyle.

[BossChief]

Yeah, that Joe Nammath guy sure did suck.

[OldSchool]

McCarron would be a good fit for any team that has a good running game. not the strongest arm in the world, but very smart. I could see him with the Vikings.

I remember watching the Senior Bowl game with Carr throwing a deep bomb to Norwood. It looked like Norwood did not expect the ball to fly as far as he did because he stopped his route and looked like he was waiting on it to fall only to have the ball land where he would have been about 10 yards further up the field if he had just kept running. I guess that's what happens when you play your entire college career with a noodle arm like McCarron, lol.

[Tribal Warfare]

Yeah, that Joe Nammath guy sure did suck.


Yeah, and if Namath pulled that shit today he'd be suspended in an instant ( drug testing) especially with the growth of social media and NFL PR concerns. He wouldn't be available to lend his talents.

[Pepe Silvia]

Whoever Indy or Den drafts.

Sadly this lol

[Omaha]

Mettenburger

Poll fail.

[rico]

Murray.

[saphojunkie]

I like Garoppolo or Murray, because I think they'll fall far enough that a good team with a good coach will get their hands on them and actually teach them how to play.

Manziel is kind of set up for failure.

[Rausch]

Bortles...

[Jimmya]

Johnny Football

[Dayze]

I don't think the Vikings are gonna settle. McCarron is too much like Ponder...

Really? :hmmm:
I guess i haven't seen enough of Ponder to really compare.

[L.A. Chieffan]

They all suck

[rico]

They all suck

Well, that's not bad considering your standards are set so high...with Cassel being on top of the mountain and all. :)

[Kiimo]

I like Garoppolo or Murray, because I think they'll fall far enough that a good team with a good coach will get their hands on them and actually teach them how to play.

Manziel is kind of set up for failure.


This is sad. The innocent suffer the worst in this world.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnI48-NCcAAAlgg.jpg

[Eleazar]

Yeah, I think Johnny is giant ****ing douchebag and I've said as much.

But when I look at what he brings to the table and put it into the context of what Andy Reid does, I see a lot of wins there...

Andy Reid had Michael Vick, who was 20-20 as a starter there. All of Vick's physical tools were superior. Of course, that isn't to say anything about what's going on upstairs, which was Vick's problem - his QBIQ just isn't that high. But Manziel has a lot working against him... size, arm, pro-style of play, etc. Some guys make it missing an elite arm of course, but not with so many things leaning against them.

I'm not sure what you can say in the way of, "But he's going to be different than scrambling QBs of the past. He'll develop into a good NFL QB because...".

That's a hard question to answer in his favor, isn't it? Unless you just like the guy and believe he's going to do what dozens or hundreds of others haven't.

[Eleazar]

Really? :hmmm:
I guess i haven't seen enough of Ponder to really compare.

I'd see Minnesota picking Bortles more, personally, but he probably won't make it down to them.

[htismaqe]

Andy Reid had Michael Vick, who was 20-20 as a starter there. All of Vick's physical tools were superior. Of course, that isn't to say anything about what's going on upstairs, which was Vick's problem - his QBIQ just isn't that high. But Manziel has a lot working against him... size, arm, pro-style of play, etc. Some guys make it missing an elite arm of course, but not with so many things leaning against them.

I'm not sure what you can say in the way of, "But he's going to be different than scrambling QBs of the past. He'll develop into a good NFL QB because...".

That's a hard question to answer in his favor, isn't it? Unless you just like the guy and believe he's going to do what dozens or hundreds of others haven't.

Not all of Vick's physical tools were superior. Outside of pure arm strength, Manziel is a better passer.

And you can't just throw out the mental makeup as if it's insignificant. What is between his ears is easily what separates Manziel from all of the other QBs in this draft, both good and bad.

Finally, he's not just a scrambling QB.

I find it very funny that so many here spend so much energy propping up Alex Smith while simultaneously tearing down Manziel. Tells me they didn't know much about Smith before he came to KC, didn't watch Manziel much in college, or a combination of both.

[Kaepernick]

Not all of Vick's physical tools were superior. Outside of pure arm strength, Manziel is a better passer.

And you can't just throw out the mental makeup as if it's insignificant. What is between his ears is easily what separates Manziel from all of the other QBs in this draft, both good and bad.

Finally, he's not just a scrambling QB.

I find it very funny that so many here spend so much energy propping up Alex Smith while simultaneously tearing down Manziel. Tells me they didn't know much about Smith before he came to KC, didn't watch Manziel much in college, or a combination of both.

Using Alex Smith to sell Johnny would appear to be a losing strategy. Otherwise, I agree.

[OldSchool]

Manziel missed a crap ton of wide open receivers in college and he doesn't have the speed to make up for it in the pros.

[KC_Lee]

Tom Savage

[htismaqe]

Using Alex Smith to sell Johnny would appear to be a losing strategy. Otherwise, I agree.

Coming out of college, Alex Smith had many of the same flaws that Manziel has. In fact, Smith was coming out of an Urban Meyer system, the same system that everybody's favorite whipping boy Tim Tebow came out of.

Outside of a handful of people, nobody here knows a damn thing about Alex Smith's first few years in San Francisco, let alone what kind of player he was at Utah.

But of course, he's the Chiefs QB now, so he's the awesome.

[Anyong Bluth]

Poll forthcoming







That's what she said!

I believe it's pronounced Pole Forthcuming

[saphojunkie]

I believe it's pronounced Pole Forthcuming

That's pretty good. My pole is always cuming first.

[TEX]

Manziel missed a crap ton of wide open receivers in college and he doesn't have the speed to make up for it in the pros.

???

[milkman]

Yeah, that Joe Nammath guy sure did suck.

Namath had 2 or 3 good seasons, but was actually pretty mediocre for the majority of his career.

He made his reputation with SB III, which was won on essentially 2 big plays and defense.

Fran Tarkenton was actually a much better QB, which leads me to my next point.

Johnny Manziel, to me, looks like he has the tools to play like the love child of Tarkenton and Drew Brees.

He's a much better pocket passer than given credit for, and the athletic ability to extend plays in the same manner that Tarkenton did.

I think this kid is going to successful, and really exciting to watch.

[keg in kc]

I think Manziel is going to flame out brilliantly.

[milkman]

I think Manziel is going to flame out brilliantly.

Possible.

One thing I do believe is that there won't be any middle ground.

He'll either shine or flame out brilliantly.

[htismaqe]

Namath had 2 or 3 good seasons, but was actually pretty mediocre for the majority of his career.

He made his reputation with SB III, which was won on essentially 2 big plays and defense.

Fran Tarkenton was actually a much better QB, which leads me to my next point.

Johnny Manziel, to me, looks like he has the tools to play like the love child of Tarkenton and Drew Brees.

He's a much better pocket passer than given credit for, and the athletic ability to extend plays in the same manner that Tarkenton did.

I think this kid is going to successful, and really exciting to watch.

Exactly how I see it. With the right coaching, he could be really special.

[htismaqe]

Possible.

One thing I do believe is that there won't be any middle ground.

He'll either shine or flame out brilliantly.

Agree with this too.

[O.city]

I can see how coaches and GM's apparently feel bout Manziel. Someone said it on twitter brilliantly

"I'd love to watch him play poker, just not with my money".

[Easy 6]

Its hard for me to not pick Manziel, the guy came up aces in the biggest game of his last year in college... that comeback bowl win was veeery impressive.

Plan B would be McCarron.

[O.city]

If Carr can learn to stay calm in the pocket (I have my doubts) he's got great tools.

[Dayze]

agree with Milkman.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ND fan thinks Johnny Football is a douche? Sorry, dude, but that's ironic.

In fairness, outside of TAMU fans, who doesn't think the kid is a douche?

[O.city]

In fairness, outside of TAMU fans, who doesn't think the kid is a douche?

He could be our douche?

I'd kinda like it. Him squaring off against Rivers? That'd be fun.

[Anyong Bluth]

I can see how coaches and GM's apparently feel bout Manziel. Someone said it on twitter brilliantly

"I'd love to watch him play poker, just not with my money".

About as perfect a summation as I can think of.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He could be our douche?

I'd kinda like it. Him squaring off against Rivers? That'd be fun.

That would rival the old Rivers/Cutler douche-offs in the AFCW.

[htismaqe]

In fairness, outside of TAMU fans, who doesn't think the kid is a douche?

The thing is, he's pretty cocky. Is that all that bad of thing when you play a competitive sport for a living?

Not to mention the fact that he's still a kid. He might grow out of it. He certainly mature at least somewhat.

[O.city]

That would rival the old Rivers/Cutler douche-offs in the AFCW.

It would be fun.


Frankly, with the Chiefs, if they aren't going to be great, atleast be exciting.

I think Manziel could be both.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The thing is, he's pretty cocky. Is that all that bad of thing when you play a competitive sport for a living?

Not to mention the fact that he's still a kid. He might grow out of it. He certainly mature at least somewhat.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him without thinking twice. Love the attitude on the field.

But holy shit - this fanbase goes all weeping vagina over Bowe pointing at the back of his jersey.

[O.city]

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him without thinking twice. Love the attitude on the field.

But holy shit - this fanbase goes all weeping vagina over Bowe pointing at the back of his jersey.

Well, there is one difference between the two. I'm not gonna say it, or that it owuld actually matter, but there is one difference.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, there is one difference between the two. I'm not gonna say it, or that it owuld actually matter, but there is one difference.

Sadly, truth.

[htismaqe]

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him without thinking twice. Love the attitude on the field.

But holy shit - this fanbase goes all weeping vagina over Bowe pointing at the back of his jersey.

Yeah, he'd have his share of critics solely because he's not Mr. Main Street America. True.

[Start Croyle]

Manziel should be the #1 pick of the draft. Why? Because he is the only QB in the draft class with POTENTIAL to be the GQBOT! His ceiling is that high!

Even if he is not presently the best, someone with POTENTIAL so high MUST be drafted immediately by any team able to do so!

[The Franchise]

Your username is making your post hard to take seriously.

[rico]

Don't get me wrong, I like Manziel, but this article made me chuckle.

Barry Switzer calls Johnny Manziel an 'arrogant little prick'


By Will Brinson | NFL Writer

February 26, 2014 12:40 pm ET

Barry Switzer ain't scared to share his opinion. And so when asked about Johnny Manziel, he got exceptionally real with his words, calling the former Texas A&M quarterback an "arrogant little prick."

Switzer, appearing on CBS Sports Radio 920 AM in St. Louis on Wednesday morning, said that he doesn't care for Manziel's "antics" and said he's "embarrassed himself."

"I'm gonna tell you. I said Johnny Manziel is … I don't like his antics. I think he's an arrogant little prick," Switzer said. "I've said that and I'll say it again. He's a privileged kid, he's embarrassed himself, he's embarrassed his teammates, his program. He's embarrassed his coach. And they'll all have to defend him because they have to coach. I know that. I spent 40 years in the damn game so I know how it works."

Well then. Those are strong words indeed. I don't know if Switzer thinks the phrase "arrogant little prick" carries less weight than it does (maybe it's a Texas thing?) but that's a pretty personal attack on Manziel.

Having said all that, Switzer LOVES the way Manziel plays the game and called Manziel "the best I've seen" and the "most dominant, dynamic college quarterback I've ever seen."
"He's the best I've seen. I've never seen a quarterback in college football take control of a game like he does and put up the numbers he does. It's fantastic what he's done against good competition. Game after game after game the numbers he puts up are staggering," Switzer said. "And when you watch him, you think he's a running back. You can't get to him, he's quick, he has more quickness than he does speed. He's elusive. You can't touch him. ... Strong arm. You watch him on film and tape and I've watched him enough -- the guy is oblivious to the rush. He lets you think you're going to touch him and then he disappears and he gets away from you and buys time. When a guy does that, guys are going to separate. I don't care how good you are in pro football, you can't cover for more than five seconds. Then they're going to be free.

"And Johnny Manziel gets the ball to people. He's the most dominant, most dynamic college quarterback I've ever seen."

Manziel, or "Fourth-Round Johnny" as he's known in Bristol, is as polarizing a player as we've seen come into the draft in years. He's got all the talent but off-field "issues" (which aren't really issues, per se ...) have people concerned about his maturity.

This offseason he's dedicated himself to becoming a better pocket quarterback and proving he's changed.

Ultimately all that matters is whether or not Manziel can play. He's shown that he can at a college level. There will be plenty of people waiting to see if he sinks or swims at the next level.

[O.city]

I dont' think Manziel is close to ready to start day 1 though.

[temper11]

That's pretty good. My pole is always cuming first.

don't you mean your poll is "pre-maturely cuming"?

[htismaqe]

"I'm gonna tell you. I said Johnny Manziel is … I don't like his antics. I think he's an arrogant little prick," Switzer said. "I've said that and I'll say it again. He's a privileged kid, he's embarrassed himself, he's embarrassed his teammates, his program. He's embarrassed his coach. And they'll all have to defend him because they have to coach. I know what it's like. I spent 40 years embarrassing everyone around me so I know how it works."

Fixed yer post, Mr. Switzer.

[Pablo]

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him without thinking twice. Love the attitude on the field.

But holy shit - this fanbase goes all weeping vagina over Bowe pointing at the back of his jersey.LMAO

There would be gnashing of teeth over his "antics", no doubt.

[The Franchise]

LMAO

There would be gnashing of teeth over his "antics", no doubt.

No there wouldn't....not with how he looks.

[BossChief]

Look at the games we won and lost...I think last years a chiefs would have made the playoffs with Johnny.

[Pablo]

No there wouldn't....not with how he looks.He's no Dwayne.

LMAO

[Eleazar]

Coming out of college, Alex Smith had many of the same flaws that Manziel has. In fact, Smith was coming out of an Urban Meyer system, the same system that everybody's favorite whipping boy Tim Tebow came out of.

Outside of a handful of people, nobody here knows a damn thing about Alex Smith's first few years in San Francisco, let alone what kind of player he was at Utah.

But of course, he's the Chiefs QB now, so he's the awesome.

He started to be awesome after his shoulder injury was repaired and after they quit getting a new coach in there every year. But he's been consistent for the last 5 years, apart from some injuries.

It just seems like a hard sell if I'm the owner of a team, for a GM to come to me and say this guy is going to be healthy playing his game at the NFL level, the first one of his size to work out as a long term starter, do it while succeeding without ideal arm strength for an NFL QB, will learn to play the game a new way from how he's played it in the past, and either do it immediately or keep what seems to be a sizable ego in check while someone else plays.

It's not a question for me in that position like it is for a fan, do I think it's worth a shot. It's do I want to turn my franchise over to that chance for the next several years, or would I rather pick one of several other guys who seem to more closely fit the well-worn pattern of NFL QBs... Someone will take the chance, but it couldn't be very easy to tell a businessman that this is his best bet

[htismaqe]

It just seems like a hard sell if I'm the owner of a team, for a GM to come to me and say this guy is going to be healthy playing his game at the NFL level, the first one of his size to work out as a long term starter, do it while succeeding without ideal arm strength for an NFL QB, will learn to play the game a new way from how he's played it in the past, and either do it immediately or keep what seems to be a sizable ego in check while someone else plays.

Drew Brees did almost all of those things.

It's not a question for me in that position like it is for a fan, do I think it's worth a shot. It's do I want to turn my franchise over to that chance for the next several years, or would I rather pick one of several other guys who seem to more closely fit the well-worn pattern of NFL QBs... Someone will take the chance, but it couldn't be very easy to tell a businessman that this is his best bet

In business, those kinds of risks are what separates the millionaires and billionaires.

[Eleazar]

Drew Brees did almost all of those things.


I think it's pretty obvious that Brees' game coming out of college was a lot closer to the NFL QB mold

[htismaqe]

I think it's pretty obvious that Brees' game coming out of college was a lot closer to the NFL QB mold

Did you watch Brees in college?

He was one of the prototype's for the "spread QBs won't make it in the NFL" argument. He average like 5YPA for his first 2 years in the league and everybody (including me) declared him a bust.

[Eleazar]

Did you watch Brees in college?

He was one of the prototype's for the "spread QBs won't make it in the NFL" argument. He average like 5YPA for his first 2 years in the league and everybody (including me) declared him a bust.

I think that being a spread QB puts you behind on day one, but half of the division 1 programs out there are running spread offenses these days.

[htismaqe]

I think that being a spread QB puts you behind on day one, but half of the division 1 programs out there are running spread offenses these days.

They weren't when Brees was in college.

[Eleazar]

They weren't when Brees was in college.

Sure, but the point is just that a spread QB is closer than one who runs as much as Manziel does to being ready to start in the NFL.

I would probably die from the shock if we were to take him, but if we do then fine, I'm on board, let's ride.

It would just give me a lot of heartburn to see us try this, because much like our strategy of never drafting QBs high, there's a pretty well established pattern of what works in the postseason in the NFL and we're trying to do something that has really never been shown to work.

[htismaqe]

Sure, but the point is just that a spread QB is closer than one who runs as much as Manziel does to being ready to start in the NFL.

I would probably die from the shock if we were to take him, but if we do then fine, I'm on board, let's ride.

It would just give me a lot of heartburn to see us try this, because much like our strategy of never drafting QBs high, there's a pretty well established pattern of what works in the postseason in the NFL and we're trying to do something that has really never been shown to work.

Manziel had 144 rushing attempts last season. He had 429 pass attempts.

Alex Smith in his final year had 135 and 317 pass attempts.

Tim Tebow had 217 rushing attempts to only 213 pass attempts.

How much did you watch Manziel play? You seem convinced that he's a running QB. He's not any more of a running QB than Alex Smith is.