What The Niners did with the Picks from the AS trade

[DTLB58]

From MMQB
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/12/the-2014-nfl-draft-sealed-with-a-kiss/3/

Now that we see the final product of what the Niners gave away and received in the Alex Smith trade from 14 months ago, we can judge one thing about San Francisco GM Trent Baalke: He is calculating, he is fast, and he knows how to set up his team for the future.

The result, first, of the 2013 trade of Smith to Kansas City for a pair of second-round draft picks. The two second-round picks, or their tributaries, were traded a total of five times over the past two drafts, and here’s how it shook out after this year’s draft.

Surrendered
QB Alex Smith

Acquired*
DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

* Lemonier was acquired in part with a tributary pick stemming from the Smith trade, and Johnson was acquired from Buffalo on Friday for a fourth-round conditional pick in 2015. That’s included here because San Francisco obtained a fourth-round pick in 2015 from Denver for the second-round pick that originally belonged to Kansas City—so the two picks, arguably, will end up canceling each other out.
Now the story. In the span of 22 minutes Friday, Baalke consummated three trades. One: He traded the 56th pick in the second round (the second Kansas City second-rounder) to Denver for the 63rdand 171st this year, and the Broncos’ fourth-round pick next year. Two: Baalke traded the 63rd and 171stpicks just acquired from Denver to Miami for the 57th pick in the draft; Baalke got the player he would have picked at 56, Carlos Hyde, at 57 … while adding the fourth-rounder next year that replaced the pick used to get Stevie Johnson. Three: He traded his own second-round pick, 61st overall, to Jacksonville for the 70th and 150th picks.

Baalke explained that he and COO Paraag Marathe work the phone and line up prospective trades, and it was hectic because there were a couple of other teams calling in that 22-minute span trying to get one or more of the Niners’ picks at 56 and 61. “That span you talked about was a little bit of a grind,” Baalke said late Saturday night. “A lot of action, a lot of things to consider. Paraag’s the best in the business at lining things up, and then we make the decision. After we made the trade with Denver, I thought we might be able to get Carlos at 61, but then we called [Miami] at 57 and figured we could use what we got from Denver in this year’s draft and keep next year’s pick and move up to make sure we got him. And it allowed us basically to get our four back, which we used to trade for Stevie.”

This isn’t a case of San Francisco fleecing Denver. But it is an example of Baalke doing the smart thing, and waiting till a needy team is either on the clock or frothing after a certain player. That was Denver with wide receiver Cody Latimer, who the Broncos project to replace Eric Decker right away. If he works out the way John Elway thinks, surrendering the four next year will be nothing.

Time will tell if Baalke made the haul worth it. The five pieces the Smith deal yielded:

Carradine will get on the field healthy for the first time as a Niner this month. He missed all of last season with an ACL tear. He’ll be the third man in the 3-4 defensive end rotation with the aging Justin Smith and Ray McDonald, and move inside on some four-lineman snaps. He’s being groomed to start in the 3-4 scheme when Smith or McDonald are gone.
Lemonierplayed 284 snaps, mostly subbing for the idle Aldon Smith last year, and will be in the outside-linebacker rotation with Michael Wilhoite and Nick Moody, competing for time.
Borlandis an accomplished college player, and produced an amazing 27 turnovers in his Wisconsin career. But he’s only 5-11 ½, and he could be a first-down player only (against the run). “It’ll be interesting to see if his game translates to the NFL,” said defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. However, with NaVorro Bowman expect to be sidelined until at least November rehabbing a sere knee injury, there’s a spot on the Niners’ D at inside ‘backer waiting to be won, and Borland will get a solid crack at it. “I’ve heard people talk about his size, and his short arms,” said Baalke. “But he’s a guy with instincts. All those short did somehow was rack up over 400 tackles in the Big Ten.”
Hyde should be able to make the move from the Big 10 to the NFL much easier. He’s the heir to Frank Gore, a 230-pound bruiser with enough moves to be an every-down back. That is, if Gore ever slows down.
Johnson is still only 27, but he had a down year last year with the Bills. He’s not the speedster the Niners sought this offseason to help de-pressurize Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree, but he should be a good third receiver and an adequate piece to San Francisco’s underachieving receiver group.
I asked Baalke about his feelings on the trade now that the chips are known. “Mixed emotions,’’ he said. “I have so much respect for Alex Smith and his family, and great regard for him as a player. He’s the epitome of a good man and teammate and a good player. I know the Kansas City Chiefs staff, and they are thrilled to have him. We’ll see how it works out for us. It’s still early.”

[DTLB58]

I like how they explained in the paragraph about when it got hectic when the phones were ringing and all the trades were going down but they were still thinking about the player they wanted to get out of all of this. Carlos Hyde. It's just like the thread I started before the draft about Jimmy Johnson. He wasn't a BPA guy or a need guy he just went after the guy he wanted! Mostly by making trades. And here is Baalke doing the same damn thing and winning.
I can't stress this enough, I Focking hate the way Dorsey just sits by and waits and plays the damn board for BPA. Hate it!

[kcchiefsus]

Agreed. It's annoying as fuck watching this sit with their dicks tucked in their asses while other teams are able to wheel and deal and acquire a buttload of picks.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That should be a humbling article for a lot of Chiefs homers, because it illustrates the differences between a scout and a general manager.

[kcchiefsus]

I think somebody needs to make sure John Dorsey sees this article.

There's no reason why he can't be capable of doing that kind of stuff if he makes the effort. Even if he is more of a scout now than an all around general manager he can develop into a better gm if he's not too stubborn. At least, I hope so.

[TEX]

Agreed. It's annoying as **** watching this sit with their dicks tucked in their asses while other teams are able to wheel and deal and acquire a buttload of picks.

Happens most every year regardless of who the GM is...

[OldSchool]

They need to hire someone who is as good as Paraag.

[LoneWolf]

That should be a humbling article for a lot of Chiefs homers, because it illustrates the differences between a scout and a general manager.

Baalke is a former scout. What he has been able to do is take a commodity and flip it for picks. He has been able to use those picks to acquire extra picks and he has hit on a few of those picks with great players.

It's easy to be the best poker player in the room when you have the best cards. His situation is very similar to Jimmy Johnson who was able to make a huge trade involving a commodity on his team and then hit on a few of those picks. Those situations don't come along very often and when they aren't available the GM usually starts to look average again. Case in point, Jimmy Johnson in Miami. He didn't have a Herschel Walker to trade and he looked rather pedestrian in his time there.

[jd1020]

Baalke is a former scout. What he has been able to do is take a commodity and flip it for picks. He has been able to use those picks to acquire extra picks and he has hit on a few of those picks with great players.

It's easy to be the best poker player in the room when you have the best cards. His situation is very similar to Jimmy Johnson who was able to make a huge trade involving a commodity on his team and then hit on a few of those picks. Those situations don't come along very often and when they aren't available the GM usually starts to look average again. Case in point, Jimmy Johnson in Miami. He didn't have a Herschel Walker to trade and he looked rather pedestrian in his time there.

The 49ers were already established before they traded any "commodity." And Alex is not a commodity.

Before the Alex Smith trade the 49ers lone trade of a player, if I'm not mistaken, was fucking Taylor Mays.

[Bowser]

But we have that computer program that tells us the best player to take, and which ones we should cut.

[LoneWolf]

The 49ers were already established before they traded any "commodity." And Alex is not a commodity.

Before the Alex Smith trade the 49ers lone trade of a player, if I'm not mistaken, was ****ing Taylor Mays.

You're right a QB that took his team to the NFCCG and was the highest rated passer in the league the following year before being injured isn't a commodity in a QB driven league.

If the 49ers were already established, it wasn't because if Baalke. He wasn't the official GM until 2011.

[jd1020]

You're right a QB that took his team to the NFCCG and was the highest rated passer in the league the following year before being injured isn't a commodity in a QB driven league.

If the 49ers were already established, it wasn't because if Baalke. He wasn't the official GM until 2011.

Commodity = something that satisfies wants and needs. The Chiefs fans want to win a SB and the Chiefs organization desperately needs to win a SB. Alex will satisfy none of the above.

49ers season records:

2007: 5-11
2008: 7-9
2009: 8-8
2010: 6-10
2011: 13-3
2012: 11-4-1
2013: 12-4

What year did you say he became GM again?

[Cmd'r&Chief]

Agreed. It's annoying as fuck watching this sit with their dicks tucked in their asses while other teams are able to wheel and deal and acquire a buttload of picks.

Did we have a 2nd round pick to trade this year?

I'd say that we tried to trade our first round pick, since it we waited till the clock hit zero to turn in our pick. Either nobody wanted to trade, or the offer wasn't that good.

[jd1020]

Did we have a 2nd round pick to trade this year?

I'd say that we tried to trade our first round pick, since it we waited till the clock hit zero to turn in our pick. Either nobody wanted to trade, or the offer wasn't that good.

The offer has yet to be good enough for Dorsey.

A 3rd wasn't good enough for Albert but a comp pick is.

[the Talking Can]

the most graphic depiction of rape i've ever read

[Deberg_1990]

Nice to see on paper the great value the Chiefs got!

[Pasta Little Brioni]

So They got a guy that fucked up his knee, a guy behind Nick fucking Moody on the depth chart ROFL, a guy that projects as a 1st down run stuffer at best, backup RB, and malcontent receiver. This is how the people bitching evaluate our guys, so only fair to do the same. We get a QB that helps take us from 2 to 11 wins and puts up 44 in the playoffs. Scores 35 ppg the 2nd half of the year when they score 13 a game the year before with same players. That is value.

[jd1020]

So They got a guy that fucked up his knee, a guy behind Nick fucking Moody on the depth chart ROFL, a guy that projects as a 1st down run stuffer at best, backup RB, and malcontent receiver. This is how the people bitching evaluate our guys, so only fair to do the same. We get a QB that helps take us from 2 to 11 wins and puts up 44 in the playoffs. Scores 35 ppg the 2nd half of the year when they score 13 a game the year before with same players. That is value.

Don't forget to leave out the jump from the 32nd ranked passing offense to the 25th.

[TEX]

I HATED to see Denver use a pick, that used to be ours, to draft WR Cody Latimer. :banghead: Dude is gonna be good, especially with 5-head throwing to him. He will make this kid the same way he made Decker.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Don't forget to leave out the jump from the 32nd ranked passing offense to the 25th.

Doubled the amount of points scored in one year isn't enough for you dipshits. I did forget the 400 plus total yards and 4 TDS in the playoffs, but you will whine he didn't throw a 5th because Gray is a slow turd ROFL

[jd1020]

I did forget the 400 plus total yards and 4 TDS in the playoffs, but you will whine he didn't throw a 5th because Gray is a slow turd ROFL

Ahh yes. Gray, the slow turd and Alex, not the guy that overthrew a wide the fuck open receiver.

Absolutely none of the blame goes to a QB who managed to lead a team to a whopping 3 2nd half points. None.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I still fail to see this "haul" the Niners got in how the players are described in the article. Seems they got a bunch of jobbers.

[htismaqe]

I still fail to see this "haul" the Niners got in how the players are described in the article. Seems they got a bunch of jobbers.

Same here.

The only frustrating thing for me is that, after seeing this past weekend, I think Dorsey might have actually been able to do something with those picks.

[LoneWolf]

Commodity = something that satisfies wants and needs. The Chiefs fans want to win a SB and the Chiefs organization desperately needs to win a SB. Alex will satisfy none of the above.

49ers season records:

2007: 5-11
2008: 7-9
2009: 8-8
2010: 6-10
2011: 13-3
2012: 11-4-1
2013: 12-4

What year did you say he became GM again?

The Chiefs wanted a capable starting QB and needed one that could not be compared to a dry lump of shit. AS satisfied both of those requirements.

You stated that the 49ers were established before he took over the GM duties, so his becoming GM in 2011 shouldn't matter. He hasn't been any better at hitting in draft picks than the majority if GMs. He's just had more chances due to using a commodity like AS to acquire extra picks. A few of his "hits" are even in question. Aldon Smith is a certifiable idiot who might not play this season and Kaepernick is far from a sure thing as a QB.

[jd1020]

You stated that the 49ers were established before he took over the GM duties, so his becoming GM in 2011 shouldn't matter. He hasn't been any better at hitting in draft picks than the majority if GMs. He's just had more chances due to using a commodity like AS to acquire extra picks. A few of his "hits" are even in question. Aldon Smith is a certifiable idiot who might not play this season and Kaepernick is far from a sure thing as a QB.

No. No, I didn't.

[htismaqe]

the most graphic depiction of rape i've ever read

No way, not at all.

The 49ers failed to maximize the value of those picks.

One of those LBs won't even make the team and they drafted a defensive lineman named "Tank" - he's guaranteed to fail.

[notorious]

We could have kept the picks and been kicking ass with ..... who again?

I am not saying it was a great trade, it just wasn't a BAD one.

[LoneWolf]

No. No, I didn't.

You are correct, you didn't. You are still wrong though.

[jd1020]

You are correct, you didn't. You are still wrong though.

Not really.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

We could have kept the picks and been kicking ass with ..... who again?

I am not saying it was a great trade, it just wasn't a BAD one.

Corey Lemonade

[jd1020]

We could have kept the picks and been kicking ass with ..... who again?

I am not saying it was a great trade, it just wasn't a BAD one.

Seeing how Dorsey works we wouldn't have turned them into 5 picks. We'd only have the 2 picks.

And just using this years pick the Chiefs could have got Latimer, Jean-Baptiste, Ealy, Landris... just to name a few that people were pining for on this board.

But other than that. The Chiefs would not have had Alex and they probably still would have had a respectable 8-8 season with just about any fucking QB giving the schedule and the Chiefs defense to start the year. That means they would have been picking sooner and could have grabbed the QB they were on the verge of selecting in the first round, Manziel.

[unlurking]

Commodity = something that satisfies wants and needs. The Chiefs fans want to win a SB and the Chiefs organization desperately needs to win a SB. Alex will satisfy none of the above.
...

The Chiefs ownership wanted to sell tickets. Alex satisfied that. Hell, just about ANY new starting QB would likely have satisfied that want.

[Deberg_1990]

Baalke was the guy who whiffed on AJ Jenkins right?

Nope, only the Chiefs make mistakes....

[Bowser]

Baalke was the guy who whiffed on AJ Jenkins right?

Nope, only the Chiefs make mistakes....

And then took Jon Baldwin to replace him?

[Garcia Bronco]

The Donks got your pick and we draft someone to kill you with. :)

[jd1020]

And then took Jon Baldwin to replace him?

Works both ways.

If you looked at the monetary value of the deal then the 49ers got the better half.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

We all know the window ends with jughead the rest is irrelevant

[Bowser]

I wasn't a fan of what we gave up for Alex. It was too much, but you knew we were going to have to pay for a QB if we weren't going to draft our own (it is what we do, you know). I wasn't particularly a fan of Alex the first eight games or so. He'd make an occasional play and not fuck up the game - pretty much his M.O. You don't hamstring your future drafts for a Damon Huard that doesn't throw interceptions.

But after the bye, Alex looked like an entirely different guy. Had he played like that the entire season, NOBODY would have complained (much) about the price it took to get him. Now, assuming that Alex remains at the same level he ended the season at in Indianapolis, would you rather have him or one of the guys that the Niners drafted, or anyone that was on the board at the time we would have drafted in that second round?

[Bowser]

Works both ways.

If you looked at the monetary value of the deal then the 49ers got the better half.

Because of where they were drafted in respect to one another? Even so, how much did the 9ers save by us swapping WRs?

[notorious]

Because of where they were drafted in respect to one another? Even so, how much did the 9ers save by us swapping WRs?

It's just Clark's money, in which I give zero fucks.

[notorious]

Corey Lemonade

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608031905988742333&pid=1.7

[Bowser]

It's just Clark's money, in which I give zero fucks.

Pretty much. I'm thinking both of those guys on their rookie deals taken later in the first round aren't exactly cap busters anyway.

[OldSchool]

The Donks got your pick and we draft someone to kill you with. :)

Unless you Donkeys are planning to cut Welker, Latimer is going to do jack shit his rookie season with Thomas, Welker, and Sanders ahead of him on the depth chart and his rawness in route running. Manning is not going to take Julius Thomas and his pass blocking RB off the field in favor of a raw rookie WR.

[jd1020]

Because of where they were drafted in respect to one another? Even so, how much did the 9ers save by us swapping WRs?

The 49ers already restructed Baldwin, but at the time I looked at their contracts and Baldwin had less guaranteed money left on his contract. As it is right now they'll save about $1m and 1 year of a roster spot.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

So, we are in agreement then that they did in fact not get a "haul"

[Halfcan]

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Would all of these players combined taken us from a laughing stock 2-11 team to a playoff team like Alex did?

[notorious]

The 49ers already restructed Baldwin, but at the time I looked at their contracts and Baldwin had less guaranteed money left on his contract. As it is right now they'll save about $1m and 1 year of a roster spot.

But, they got Baldfail. Just having him on the roster dragged this team down, or at the very least it chipped away at our sanity.

[jd1020]

But, they got Baldfail. Just having him on the roster dragged this team down, or at the very least it chipped away at our sanity.

Meh.

Tit for tat.

We got Junkins.

[OldSchool]

Yeah, the 49ers actually did a very poor job, IMO, of maximizing the extra picks that they had. Draft another RB when you already have Marcus Latimore, Kendall Hunter, and Lamichael James in your backfield for the future? What the hell was that?

Borland isn't going to do crap on that team with Willis and Bowman there unless they're planning to cut Willis in the near future because of the cost.

Then they seem to have a fascination with players who have bad knee injuries in college. Carradine is far from a guarantee as a good player in this league and certainly won't be on Justin Smith's level as a player. The same can be said of Lemonier compared to Ahmad Brooks.

Stevie Johnson was a good WR a year ago but the 49ers don't really use their WRs anyways. They run the ball more than they pass it, and when they pass it, regardless of who is open, the only person who is going to get the ball is the primary receiver on the play (Crabtree, Boldin, or Davis). At best Johnson will be a 30-40 catch guy with about 300-400 yards to his name; he'll more likely be a 20ish catch guy with about 250 yards of production.

They're nice depth but they aren't pushing the 49ers over the Seahawks.

[LoneWolf]

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Would all of these players combined taken us from a laughing stock 2-11 team to a playoff team like Alex did?

Only one of those guys would start for KC.

[OldSchool]

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Would all of these players combined taken us from a laughing stock 2-11 team to a playoff team like Alex did?

Not a chance.

[MahiMike]

Who cares.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

One of the best organizations in the league picks a bunch of "jobbers" and the Chiefs had a great draft.

Only on ChiefsPlanet.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Then they seem to have a fascination with players who have bad knee injuries in college.

Eric Fisher
Knile Davis
Dee Ford
Travis Kelce
Alex Smith

Two firsts, two seconds, and two thirds used by John Dorsey. Bastions of physical health, the lot of them.

[OldSchool]

Eric Fisher
Knile Davis
Dee Ford
Travis Kelce
Alex Smith

Two firsts, two seconds, and two thirds used by John Dorsey. Bastions of physical health, the lot of them.

Wasn't aware that they all had ACL injuries and that Smith didn't play the entire season for us.:hmmm:

[the Talking Can]

No way, not at all.

The 49ers failed to maximize the value of those picks.

One of those LBs won't even make the team and they drafted a defensive lineman named "Tank" - he's guaranteed to fail.

um, they got all of that for a QB they benched..a QB no one wanted FOR FREE a year before

he had 0 value to the 49ers, and they still flipped him for real draft value


it was ****ing genius

[RunKC]

Hope Andy can build Murray up and rape so e team like he did with Kolb.

[htismaqe]

um, they got all of that for a QB they benched..a QB no one wanted FOR FREE a year before

he had 0 value to the 49ers, and they still flipped him for real draft value


it was ****ing genius

Look at the post I replied to.

They got something for nothing. But he was only "nothing" to them. He's "something" for us.

And when you look at how they used those picks, "rape" is a ridiculous word to use.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

One of the best organizations in the league picks a bunch of "jobbers" and the Chiefs had a great draft.

Only on ChiefsPlanet.

Hey that's how the author described them. Care to differ? I am not seeing anything other than "OMG DA NINERS PACKED EM". Kind of like when Cody and Kindle were hall of famers because of going to the Ravens ROFL

[keg in kc]

I'm pretty interested to see what the Chiefs do in next year's draft. Due primarily to the Smith trade, as well as a lack of comp picks (which give some flexibility to move other picks) they just haven't had a whole lot of ammo to move. They should have double-digit picks next year. We'll see if they do anything with them.

[ndws]

Borland isn't going to do crap on that team with Willis and Bowman there unless they're planning to cut Willis in the near future because of the cost.



Probably a safety net for Bowman and his knee.

[RealSNR]

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

[OldSchool]

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

Smith easily. Palmer does not survive behind this OL with the limited weapons that we have. Smith is also a significantly smarter and more clutch performer than Palmer is. He's also young enough that he can be the answer for the next 5-6 years or beyond if he decides to play that long. Geno Smith is crap.

There's no guarantee that Latimer ever pans out. There are more physically gifted players who enter the league and end up failing terribly than you can count.

[patteeu]

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

For two second rounders and a 5th, the Chiefs acquired Alex Smith, Tyler Bray, and Aaron Murray. For a team that was devoid of QB talent, I think Dorsey/Reid handled it alright (although truth be told, I'm not optimistic at all about Bray).

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Palmer and Geno make me barf....and I was a Geno guy.

[keg in kc]

Kind of difficult to answer the question of what the right choice is or was right now. Time will tell. If we turn into the early '00s Eagles with Alex Smith behind center, are any of us really going to complain that they went with the names they liked instead of the names we liked? And on the flip side, if it fails miserably, we'll pretty much have our concerns confirmed.

[J Diddy]

Kind of difficult to answer the question of what the right choice is or was right now. Time will tell. If we turn into the early '00s Eagles with Alex Smith behind center, are any of us really going to complain that they went with the names they liked instead of the names we liked? And on the flip side, if it fails miserably, we'll pretty much have our concerns confirmed.

Common sense has no place in draft discussion.

[OldSchool]

Also, for a guy who had Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts to throw to, Palmer had a piss poor TD:INT ratio of 24:22. He only threw 1 more TD than Smith did and he had a QB's dream to work with compared to what Smith had here.

There hasn't been a single season where Palmer has thrown for less than 12 INTs, the only time that he didn't throw that many was when he was injured and had his season cut short after 4 games.

[CapsLockKey]

Alex Smith was a key piece in taking a two win team to the playoffs overnight. What did the players from them picks contribute to so far for the 9ers? Add to it the Chiefs stole Cooper away from SF for free. I hated the trade as much as the next guy when it went down, but I'd say it worked out pretty well for the Chiefs regardless of what SF did with the picks.

[RealSNR]

Also, can I just say that these names:

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Are fucking horse shit.

The only good pick I like up there is Borland, and that's because I'm a Wisconsin homer. The Stevie Johnson trade was insane value, too.

Everything else is horseshit. Baalke sucks.

[The Franchise]

I view the Jared Allen trade as more of a raping than the Alex Smith trade in terms of players drafted and value.

[RealSNR]

Also, for a guy who had Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts to throw to, Palmer had a piss poor TD:INT ratio of 24:22. He only threw 1 more TD than Smith did and he had a QB's dream to work with compared to what Smith had here.

There hasn't been a single season where Palmer has thrown for less than 12 INTs, the only time that he didn't throw that many was when he was injured and had his season cut short after 4 games.

I'm arguing that if all the Smith trade gets us is 11-5 and a playoff loss in one season followed by 6-10 and no playoffs (which is more likely than getting a playoff appearance this year) then I would have preferred the Chiefs to not make this huge push in free agency last year. They should have let Bowe and Albert walk, kept a cheap QB and all their draft picks, and started over.

The deconstruction of this team is going to be messy, and it's a stage that has to take place before the reconstruction can happen. I could see us getting mired in shitty poorly negotiated contract after shitty poorly negotiated contract with an overpaid QB while we open up new wounds at a variety of positions every year.

This draft sets us up well to offload Hali and Flowers next year, but in the meantime we're STILL short a fantastic single-high safety and a WR who doesn't suck eggs next to Bowe. Oh, and Berry, Houston, and Smith still need new contracts.

[Prison Bitch]

So They got a guy that ****ed up his knee, a guy behind Nick ****ing Moody on the depth chart ROFL, a guy that projects as a 1st down run stuffer at best, backup RB, and malcontent receiver. This is how the people bitching evaluate our guys, so only fair to do the same. We get a QB that helps take us from 2 to 11 wins and puts up 44 in the playoffs. Scores 35 ppg the 2nd half of the year when they score 13 a game the year before with same players. That is value.

Probably the first good post I've ever seen from you. Repped.

[notorious]

If our defense doesn't melt down against Indy the Alex haters would have no ground to stand on.

[htismaqe]

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?

I want no part of Carson Palmer, regardless of the alternatives.

[Titty Meat]

Commodity = something that satisfies wants and needs. The Chiefs fans want to win a SB and the Chiefs organization desperately needs to win a SB. Alex will satisfy none of the above.

49ers season records:

2007: 5-11
2008: 7-9
2009: 8-8
2010: 6-10
2011: 13-3
2012: 11-4-1
2013: 12-4

What year did you say he became GM again?

This thread = Lonewolfs ass

Great post.

[Titty Meat]

Also Baalke got Boldin for a 6th while Dorsey drafted a backup fullback

[saphojunkie]

The offer has yet to be good enough for Dorsey.

A 3rd wasn't good enough for Albert but a comp pick is.

one more year of playing + a comp pick. Albert was valuable last year.

This list of aquisitions by the 49ers looks good and all, but it doesn't mean dick if you don't have a quarterback.

The only reason they were able to wheel and deal like that is because they hit on their 2nd round pick of Kaepernick and had the first overall pick and a playoff winning QB available to deal.

If in three years, we have two different QBs on the team capable of winning deep in the playoffs, I'm fairly confident it will be Dorsey's turn to rape faces with a trade.

[GordonGekko]

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Would all of these players combined taken us from a laughing stock 2-11 team to a playoff team like Alex did?

To be honest, the defense did most of the heavy lifting for the first 9 wins against a very easy schedule. Heck, I think we won a couple games where AS didn't have a TD pass (not going to look up but think it happened).

It was only after the defense completey shit themselves did the real Chiefs team emerge, a team that closed the season out 2-6 in their last 8.

Alex Smith is getting A LOT OF CREDIT for an easy start to last season and beast mode play by the defense for the first half of the season.

AS did play great in the playoff game (for the first half that is).

Btw I am definitely not an AS fan but agree that he is our best option then and now to win now. I do very much want the Chiefs to use a first round pick on a QB and develop them properly, this is my wish as a fan.

[The Franchise]

Also Baalke got Boldin for a 6th while Dorsey drafted a backup fullback

29 other GMs are horrible then because they didn't trade for Boldin either.

[RealSNR]

29 other GMs are horrible then because they didn't trade for Boldin either.

29 other GMs also didn't draft Braden fucking Wilson

[Hoover]

The unknown possibly of draft picks are a lot like lottery tickets to people.

If given the choice between 10 dollar scratch tickets and a 20 dollar bill, I think most people would pick the lottery tickets because of their unknown potential. Yet the second they has scratched them off and realize they have a two dollar winner and a free ticket, they regret passing up the sure thing.

Alex Smith was the sure thing.

The picks we gave up for him were full of unlimited potential. Maybe they pan out, maybe they don't, but I'm not upset that the Chiefs have a legitimate signal caller under center. Smith is now a proven winner. I'm anxious to see how he fairs with the difficult schedule we face next year. If we make the playoffs again, I think the case should be closed for good.

[ct]

The 49ers were already established before they traded any "commodity." And Alex is not a commodity.

Before the Alex Smith trade the 49ers lone trade of a player, if I'm not mistaken, was ****ing Taylor Mays.

Whether you admit it or not, a qb who can win games in the nfl is most definitely a commodity, a damn valuable one.

What impresses me most about the OP laid out from the smith picks, is they essentially moved back one spot in the late 2nd round this year and got WR Stevie Johnson.

[The Franchise]

29 other GMs also didn't draft Braden fucking Wilson

I'm not doing the research but I'd guess that a good number of the 6th round and 7th round picks before and after Braden fucking Wilson aren't on their teams either.

[-King-]

What would you rather have again?

Someone like Carson Palmer in free agency + 2013's 2nd round pick (used possibly to draft Geno) + Cody Latimer?

Or Alex Smith?
Smith. We would have had a losing record with Palmer last year.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OldSchool]

The Niners would have been better off using those early picks on their perceived "weaknesses". CB and WR, taking other positions only if the player available is clearly better than anything else on the board. However, I guess that they kind of had little choice after the top 7 DBs already went well before their pick. Idiots should have used some to move up and grab Roby or something.

[LoneWolf]

This thread = Lonewolfs ass

Great post.

Nice post. All the words are spelled correctly and everything. You are agreeing with the poster who said Alex Smith wasn't a commodity and thinks Baalke has drafted well, but other than that it was a good post.

[The Franchise]

The Niners would have been better off using those early picks on their perceived "weaknesses". CB and WR, taking other positions only if the player available is clearly better than anything else on the board. However, I guess that they kind of had little choice after the top 7 DBs already went well before their pick. Idiots should have used some to move up and grab Roby or something.

Yeah....it kind of surprised me that they just kept trading down.

[ct]

The Niners would have been better off using those early picks on their perceived "weaknesses". CB and WR, taking other positions only if the player available is clearly better than anything else on the board. However, I guess that they kind of had little choice after the top 7 DBs already went well before their pick. Idiots should have used some to move up and grab Roby or something.

they can always trade for flowers, 2nd round pick should do it

ok i'll stop

[Mr. Laz]

that as much about the 49ers trading around in the draft and the Chiefs just sitting there than it is the Smith trade


apparently we have another ultra conservative GM who either doesn't know how or doesn't believe in maneuvering around. Frustrating

That said, imo the 49ers would have been better moving up and grabbing 4 studs than a bunch of guys who probably won't be able to make their talented roster.

[-King-]

People seem more impressed at the quantity of the picks than the quality of them. Guess I don't get it
Posted via Mobile Device

[htismaqe]

that as much about the 49ers trading around in the draft and the Chiefs just sitting there than it is the Smith trade


apparently we have another ultra conservative GM who either doesn't know how or doesn't believe in maneuvering around. Frustrating

That said, imo the 49ers would have been better moving up and grabbing 4 studs than a bunch of guys who probably won't be able to make their talented roster.

This.

[ct]

that as much about the 49ers trading around in the draft and the Chiefs just sitting there than it is the Smith trade


apparently we have another ultra conservative GM who either doesn't know how or doesn't believe in maneuvering around. Frustrating

That said, imo the 49ers would have been better moving up and grabbing 4 studs than a bunch of guys who probably won't be able to make their talented roster.

Cleveland moved around and seemed to get some quality players, SF moved around and ended up with a bunch of ?s imo. Though the Stevie Johnson acquisition was nicely done. also the Brandon Thomas pick pissed me off. If we're gonna draft for the future anyway, he's the ultimate futures investment on the line.

have to say I still think Johnny busts out big time, as in another Cleveland qb fail

[DTLB58]

Same here.

The only frustrating thing for me is that, after seeing this past weekend, I think Dorsey might have actually been able to do something with those picks.

I agree. I didn't post it to point out that we somehow got robbed in the Smith trade because I think that still has to be played out.

As I pointed out, I don't like the differences in draft day strategy plain and simple. Let's sit back over the next 5 years and watch. If Dorsey remains on course and doesn't change or grow in his position at all and Baalke stays on, we will evaluate then.

[Deberg_1990]

People seem more impressed at the quantity of the picks than the quality of them. Guess I don't get it
Posted via Mobile Device

What I've learned over time is that fans are always more critical of their own team than they are of others and always think the grass is greener.

For instance I work with fans of the Packers and Patriots. They always think their drafts suck. They are alot more critical of Rodgers and Brady than we are.

Human nature.
Posted via Mobile Device

[RealSNR]

Smith. We would have had a losing record with Palmer last year.
Posted via Mobile Device

We would have missed out on a playoff loss and the tight cap space that's going to make things difficult to keep Smith, Berry, and Houston on the roster!

Also, I think we all know that Flowers is a cap casualty next year, but I don't see how Hali is not in the same boat. It's going to be a real shame that we have to release him from his contract likely before his aging decline begins to happen

[keg in kc]

apparently we have another ultra conservative GM who either doesn't know how or doesn't believe in maneuvering around. FrustratingI mentioned this earlier, but I'm not sure we can actually determine that yet. Because he traded for Smith, he had no 2nd in either draft, and he had a limited number of picks in both (8 last year, 6 now). That's not a lot of ammo for movement. Next year may give us a more clear window into what he wants to do, assuming we don't trade any more picks away for anyone. They should have double-digit picks, and (non comp) picks in every round.

Also the active teams tend to be the ones that have had multiple tradeable picks in the first three rounds (particularly 1st and 2nd). We just haven't been in that position (and probably won't be next year).

We've also been on the clock until the very last second with every pick. That indicates to me that they're talking, but maybe haven't gotten an offer they like. A lack of movement doesn't necessarily mean there's a lack of interest in movement, if that makes sense.

Guess we'll see next year. Maybe.

[Rausch]

After two off-seasons and two drafts I'm pretty much done.

Other than the Cooper find he's been piss poor at drafting.

He's been piss poor at the whole draft process (trading up/down and finding value.)

He's done a piss poor job of retaining talent and a piss poor job of replacing talent through free agency.

I'm throwing in my pink "Pioli" flag right now.

He doesn't trade, draft, or sign well.

Reid will likely buy him two more years because Reid makes poop smell like perfume...

[OldSchool]

We would have missed out on a playoff loss and the tight cap space that's going to make things difficult to keep Smith, Berry, and Houston on the roster!

Also, I think we all know that Flowers is a cap casualty next year, but I don't see how Hali is not in the same boat. It's going to be a real shame that we have to release him from his contract likely before his aging decline begins to happen

If it came down to it, our FO would try to trade him for something instead of just releasing him. Gotta believe that, if he's still productive or undergoes a successful position switch to 5-tech, Dorsey would have no problem with signing Hali to a Suggs-like contract extension that can easily be cut without much of a hit after a year or two in the deal.

[ct]

After two off-seasons and two drafts I'm pretty much done.

Other than the Cooper find he's been piss poor at drafting.

He's been piss poor at the whole draft process (trading up/down and finding value.)

He's done a piss poor job of retaining talent and a piss poor job of replacing talent through free agency.

I'm throwing in my pink "Pioli" flag right now.

He doesn't trade, draft, or sign well.

Reid will likely buy him two more years because Reid makes poop smell like perfume...

bye

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Were it not 4 some of the worst safety-play in the history of organized football, Alex Smith leads the <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chiefs&amp;src=hash">#Chiefs</a> to a playoff victory in &#39;13.</p>&mdash; Louis Riddick (@LRiddickESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/LRiddickESPN/statuses/465907270585311232">May 12, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I can definitely think of &quot;worse&quot; trades. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chiefs&amp;src=hash">#Chiefs</a> did just fine getting Smith, really like Bray, and now have Murray.</p>&mdash; Louis Riddick (@LRiddickESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/LRiddickESPN/statuses/465907622743273473">May 12, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Aaron Murray to <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chiefs&amp;src=hash">#Chiefs</a> is another perfect fit for the player. They will have a great plan for his continued ACL rehab &amp; QB development.</p>&mdash; Louis Riddick (@LRiddickESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/LRiddickESPN/statuses/465207699316441089">May 10, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I still think you do the Smith trade over again if you are the <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chiefs&amp;src=hash">#Chiefs</a>. Easily.</p>&mdash; Christopher Hansen (@ChrisHansenNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChrisHansenNFL/statuses/465903760586203137">May 12, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Mr. Laz]

After two off-seasons and two drafts I'm pretty much done.

Other than the Cooper find he's been piss poor at drafting.

He's been piss poor at the whole draft process (trading up/down and finding value.)

He's done a piss poor job of retaining talent and a piss poor job of replacing talent through free agency.

I'm throwing in my pink "Pioli" flag right now.

He doesn't trade, draft, or sign well.

Reid will likely buy him two more years because Reid makes poop smell like perfume...
Peterson/Shottenheimer

[KChiefs1]

I've listened to interviews of Dorsey & I don't think he is smart enough to pull this off.

[ChiefsCountry]

Smith. We would have had a losing record with Palmer last year.
Posted via Mobile Device

The Cardinals who had the 5th hardest schedule in football ended up with 10 wins, yet the Chiefs who had the easiest schedule in football had 11, yet Carson Palmer would have made it so the Chiefs wouldn't have had a winning record? :doh!:

Not to mention Palmer was 4-1 in common opponents (ironically all the games were the same home/away wise) with 10 tds and 3 ints and 66% completion pct. Smith was 4-1, with 2 tds and 3 ints and 58% completion. Yet the Chiefs would have finished with a losing record?

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

The Cardinals who had the 5th hardest schedule in football ended up with 10 wins, yet the Chiefs who had the easiest schedule in football had 11, yet Carson Palmer would have made it so the Chiefs wouldn't have had a winning record? :doh!:

Not to mention Palmer was 4-1 in common opponents (ironically all the games were the same home/away wise) with 10 tds and 3 ints and 66% completion pct. Smith was 4-1, with 2 tds and 3 ints and 58% completion. Yet the Chiefs would have finished with a losing record?

I think the Cards 6th rank D had a lot to do with that. Chiefs D was 24.

[Mr. Laz]

I've listened to interviews of Dorsey & I don't think he is smart enough to pull this off.
i'm starting to get a bad feeling about him as well. :(

[KChiefs1]

The unknown possibly of draft picks are a lot like lottery tickets to people.

If given the choice between 10 dollar scratch tickets and a 20 dollar bill, I think most people would pick the lottery tickets because of their unknown potential. Yet the second they has scratched them off and realize they have a two dollar winner and a free ticket, they regret passing up the sure thing.

Alex Smith was the sure thing.

The picks we gave up for him were full of unlimited potential. Maybe they pan out, maybe they don't, but I'm not upset that the Chiefs have a legitimate signal caller under center. Smith is now a proven winner. I'm anxious to see how he fairs with the difficult schedule we face next year. If we make the playoffs again, I think the case should be closed for good.


Good analogy.

I think I'm the type of GM who would always be trading up to get players instead of trading down.

[ChiefsCountry]

I think the Cards 6th rank D had a lot to do with that. Chiefs D was 24.

Chiefs defense was tied for 5th in total points, Arizona was 6th.

[Jakemall]

Yeah....it kind of surprised me that they just kept trading down.

I'm a big believer in trading down (at least to a certain extent). If you can get value for the pick, you have a better shot at getting lucky with 3 guys than one guy in the first round. No, not all of them will hit...but you only need one out of 3 to hit as opposed to putting all your hopes in a single pick.

[Titty Meat]

After two off-seasons and two drafts I'm pretty much done.

Other than the Cooper find he's been piss poor at drafting.

He's been piss poor at the whole draft process (trading up/down and finding value.)

He's done a piss poor job of retaining talent and a piss poor job of replacing talent through free agency.

I'm throwing in my pink "Pioli" flag right now.

He doesn't trade, draft, or sign well.

Reid will likely buy him two more years because Reid makes poop smell like perfume...

A little early to give up dont you think? This is a boom or bust draft class. Hopefully it booms after thid year so the Chiefs will have a nice pick next year and some cap space to sign guys.

[htismaqe]

I'm a big believer in trading down (at least to a certain extent). If you can get value for the pick, you have a better shot at getting lucky with 3 guys than one guy in the first round. No, not all of them will hit...but you only need one out of 3 to hit as opposed to putting all your hopes in a single pick.

The relationship between pick value and player success isn't linear. The further you trade back, the less potential high-end value you're getting. You limiting your chances of ending up with nothing but you're also limiting your chances of getting actual blue-chip talent.

Sure, you can shotgun it, take 3, and hit 1. You're not going home empty-handed.

Or you can use a rifle, hit 1, and fucking KILL IT.

If you want a couple of pheasants, a shotgun works fine. If you want to bring down a rhino, you better have a rifle.

[The Franchise]

I'm a big believer in trading down (at least to a certain extent). If you can get value for the pick, you have a better shot at getting lucky with 3 guys than one guy in the first round. No, not all of them will hit...but you only need one out of 3 to hit as opposed to putting all your hopes in a single pick.

Yeah....that's great when you have a bunch of holes on your roster. No way the entire 49ers draft class makes that roster.

[DaWolf]

After years of following this team, it's obvious that every GM we have is an idiot until we actually get to a Super Bowl.

For all the Baalke love, and he has made some good moves, let's not forget his crappy 2012 draft or wasting some high picks on non-difference makers. He hasn't been perfect. Inheriting a strong talent base when he took over and the success Harbaugh has brought has allowed them to trade down and stockpile picks for future drafts. And as we talked about this offseason, the most successful drafts come from having a lot of draft picks, giving you more opportunities to hit and make moves for guys you target.

Next year will be the first year we are in a position to have extra picks in the draft, so let's see where that takes us...

[Jakemall]

To be honest, the defense did most of the heavy lifting for the first 9 wins against a very easy schedule. Heck, I think we won a couple games where AS didn't have a TD pass (not going to look up but think it happened).

It was only after the defense completey shit themselves did the real Chiefs team emerge, a team that closed the season out 2-6 in their last 8.

Alex Smith is getting A LOT OF CREDIT for an easy start to last season and beast mode play by the defense for the first half of the season.

AS did play great in the playoff game (for the first half that is).

Btw I am definitely not an AS fan but agree that he is our best option then and now to win now. I do very much want the Chiefs to use a first round pick on a QB and develop them properly, this is my wish as a fan.

Somewhere in the middle of the season, when the offense hadn't quite gotten it together, I remember Reid said something along the lines of Alex is getting a lot of blame for things that he has no control over and that he was actually minimizing the damage, but that criticism is just part of being the QB.

[Jakemall]

Yeah....that's great when you have a bunch of holes on your roster. No way the entire 49ers draft class makes that roster.

9ers have one of the best rosters in the NFL, imo. Sometimes it's better to grab a lot of players and throw them against the wall and see what sticks than it is to grab a guy who might be able to beat one other guy.

The only real weaknesses I think on that roster are CB and WR. They addressed one in the draft and the other in a trade.

[-King-]

We would have missed out on a playoff loss and the tight cap space that's going to make things difficult to keep Smith, Berry, and Houston on the roster! I'll take those over anything Palmer would have given us.

[Mr. Laz]

9ers have one of the best rosters in the NFL, imo. Sometimes it's better to grab a lot of players and throw them against the wall and see what sticks than it is to grab a guy who might be able to beat one other guy.
I disagree

imo when you roster is talented you should trade up and grab the higher players that fit you specific needs.

Quantity over quality is what crappy teams use because they might get lucky and have several guys make their roster

[Jakemall]

The relationship between pick value and player success isn't linear. The further you trade back, the less potential high-end value you're getting. You limiting your chances of ending up with nothing but you're also limiting your chances of getting actual blue-chip talent.

Sure, you can shotgun it, take 3, and hit 1. You're not going home empty-handed.

Or you can use a rifle, hit 1, and ****ing KILL IT.

If you want a couple of pheasants, a shotgun works fine. If you want to bring down a rhino, you better have a rifle.

I understand where you're coming from, and I do think it is a balancing act..but give this a read:


http://www.vox.com/2014/5/7/5683448/how-nfl-teams-ignore-basic-economics-and-draft-players-irrationally


This was particularly interesting: He and Thaler figured this out by calculating the odds that the first player picked at any given position will perform better — in terms of the number of games he starts in his first five seasons — than the second player drafted at that position. This is relevant because a team will often trade up when they identify a player they prefer at a needed position: they need a wide receiver, and a few highly-rated ones are available, but they trade up because they're certain one is much better.

But the data says that teams just aren't very good at figuring out when this is true. On average, the chance that first player will start more games than the second one picked at his position: 52 percent. Compared to the third, it's still only 55 percent, and compared to the fourth, it's merely 56 percent.


Bottom Line: Scouts and GMs just aren't good enough to figure out who should really be in round 1 or round 2 or round 3 and are better off trading down for the most part.

[-King-]

The Cardinals who had the 5th hardest schedule in football ended up with 10 wins, yet the Chiefs who had the easiest schedule in football had 11, yet Carson Palmer would have made it so the Chiefs wouldn't have had a winning record? :doh!:

Palmer turned the ball over 15! times more than Alex Smith.

You really don't think 15 more turnovers last year would have cost us 3+ games? Seriously?

[The Franchise]

9ers have one of the best rosters in the NFL, imo. Sometimes it's better to grab a lot of players and throw them against the wall and see what sticks than it is to grab a guy who might be able to beat one other guy.

The only real weaknesses I think on that roster are CB and WR. They addressed one in the draft and the other in a trade.

And that's how they lost out on Marcus Cooper.

[Jakemall]

And that's how they lost out on Marcus Cooper.

They lost out on Cooper because they refused to believe that he could be better than Nnamdi. They gambled that they could get him on the PS. They lost the gamble.

[ChiefsCountry]

Palmer turned the ball over 15! times more than Alex Smith.

You really don't think 15 more turnovers last year would have cost us 3+ games? Seriously?

9 of Palmer's interceptions were against the 49ers and Seahawks.

[Jakemall]

I disagree

imo when you roster is talented you should trade up and grab the higher players that fit you specific needs.

Quantity over quality is what crappy teams use because they might get lucky and have several guys make their roster

If you could accurately determine who the best player is at a given pick, great. Most NFL GMs don't hit accurately enough to make it statistically worth while.

[htismaqe]

9 of Palmer's interceptions were against the 49ers and Seahawks.

Good thing we don't have him NOW then, since we face both of them.

[Jakemall]

Good thing we don't have him NOW then, since we face both of them.

LMAO, true.

[ChiefsCountry]

Good thing we don't have him NOW then, since we face both of them.

I really don't think who we lineup under center is going to matter that much this season though.

[htismaqe]

I really don't think who we lineup under center is going to matter that much this season though.

Alex Smith is better than Carson Palmer. There's no contest there.

[Halfcan]

I imagine we will be adding a dozen undrafted guys to this list soon.

[Jakemall]

I really don't think who we lineup under center is going to matter that much this season though.

Matt Cassell says hi.

[ChiefsCountry]

Alex Smith is better than Carson Palmer. There's no contest there.

They both suck to be honest, but to say we would have had a losing record with Palmer when he had a winning record playing a harder schedule is just ludicrous.

[Exoter175]

So this is who they got.

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

And we got Alex Smith.

Call me the 1%, but I'm happy about our trade. Would those two 2nd rounders have gotten us a pro bowl caliber QB? Nope. Sure we'd have maybe 1 more defensive starter, or maybe another linemen, but is a Starting Free Safety or a Starting Right Guard worth dealing with Matt Cassel again?

God no.

And to the people thinking we got raped, I'll give you this, the course of transactions between Kansas City and San Fran last year.

Them:
2nd round pick 2013
2nd round pick 2014
WR Johnathan Baldwin (Trade)

Us:
QB Alex Smith (Trade)
WR AJ Jenkins (Trade)
Marcus Cooper (Waivers)


Looks to me like we got 2-3 of this years' starters from 2 trades and a waiver grab, and it only cost us two 2nd rounders.

I'd happily give up 2 2nd rounders right now for Alex and Marcus alone.

We can juxtapose all we want about the wheeling and dealing of the draft picks, that's what teams with depth do, but we can't go out and say "well they got this and that and the other because they traded" when we wouldn't have made the same move. The "bottom line" is value. Is Alex Smith worth 2 2nd round picks in this year and last years' draft? Absofugginlutely. Was AJ Jenkins worth the swap with Baldwin? So far, no doubt about it, yes. Was the addition of Marcus Cooper worth the jostling of the waiver wire last year? Guarangoddamntee it.

I like their Borland Pick, and I like their Hyde pick, however, Hyde's not going to see much action there, they have a zillion backs as is, and Borland is undersized for their defense. Carradine, we will see what happens, but with an ACL issue, you never truly know.

If anybody's been raped so far, its been the niners. (supported by the 'mixed feelings' comment IMO)

[Chiefnj2]

Two second round picks for a franchise QB is a small price to pay. The question is whether he will be extended and whether they are going to build around him. If he is gone after this year it was an atrocious move and Dorsey should be sent packing.

[Exoter175]

I just want to compare a few things.

Colin 243 416 58.4 3,197 7.7 21 8 39 231 91.6 92 524 5.7 4 6 4
Alex 308 508 60.6 3,313 6.5 23 7 39 210 89.1 76 431 5.7 1 7 3
Matt 153 254 60.2 1,807 7.1 11 9 16 85 81.6 18 57 3.2 1 3 1

The niners with a 16 game starter, got 25 TD's, and 12 turnovers out of Colin.
The Chiefs with a 15 game starter, got 24 TD's, and 10 turnovers out of Alex.

Both took 39 sacks, Colins' for 21 more yards, both pretty close on passing yardage despite the 1 game difference. Alex did a lot more dinking and dunking than Colin did, Colin ran a little bit more, surprisingly on the ground they had the same yards per carry which I thought was shocking.

But let me show you the mind blowing statistic

1 Alex Smith 119.7
2 Philip Rivers 116.9
3 Nick Foles 105.0
4 Russell Wilson 101.6
5 Aaron Rodgers 97.8
6 Peyton Manning 94.2
7 Tom Brady 87.7
8 Drew Brees 81.9
9 Cam Newton 79.9
10 Andrew Luck 76.4
11 Colin Kaepernick 74.0
12 Andy Dalton 67.0
13 Anquan Boldin 39.6
13 Tarvaris Jackson 39.6
13 Andy Lee SF 39.6

And yes, I know, it was just one game, but look at how well colin played in his 3 games vs. Alex in 1. Alex in his 1 scored as many TD's than Colin in his three.

Matter of fact, have you guys seen Alex's lifetime post season stats at all?

I think we got the better of their 2 QB options and now they are kicking themselves for what they gave up and how relatively cheap it was compared to the performance.

[penguinz]

They both suck to be honest, but to say we would have had a losing record with Palmer when he had a winning record playing a harder schedule is just ludicrous.You are a fuckign moron. Smith doesn't suck. He is not elite but he is far from sucking.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Chiefs defense was tied for 5th in total points, Arizona was 6th.

They gave up 35 ppg the 2nd half of the season and had like 4 sacks. Did you watch the games? They were shit.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

They both suck to be honest, but to say we would have had a losing record with Palmer when he had a winning record playing a harder schedule is just ludicrous.

Dumb. Absolute horrible post. Still beating the Smith sucks drum is pathetic at this point.

[ct]

They lost out on Cooper because they refused to believe that he could be better than Nnamdi. They gambled that they could get him on the PS. They lost the gamble.

Remember this when we scavenge Jeff Janis from GB this August.

[Exoter175]

Remember this when we scavenge Jeff Janis from GB this August.

Or land Crabtree next year in a very timid Crabtree market. :hmmm:

[OldSchool]

Carson Palmer was mediocre with Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts as his top receivers and had a TD:INT ratio of 24:22.

What the hell was he going to accomplish with Dwayne Bowe, Donnie Avery, and Dexter McCluster? 10TDs and 40 INTs?

[Exoter175]

Carson Palmer was mediocre with Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Floyd, and Andre Roberts as his top receivers and had a TD:INT ratio of 24:22.

What the hell was he going to accomplish with Dwayne Bowe, Donnie Avery, and Dexter McCluster? 10TDs and 40 INTs?

Probably comparable numbers with about twice as many sacks and maybe 10-15% less yardage IMO.

[Kaepernick]

Also, can I just say that these names:

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Are ****ing horse shit.

The only good pick I like up there is Borland, and that's because I'm a Wisconsin homer. The Stevie Johnson trade was insane value, too.

Everything else is horseshit. Baalke sucks.



"Hyde is widely regarded as the best running back in the draft and figures to be the first one off the board. But the first back might not be taken until the second round for the second straight year."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/nfl_draft_2014_carlos_hyde_is.html



Widely considered to be the best running back in the draft, Hyde slipped to the late second round and went after two other backs. Inexplicably, the Bengals selected LSU's Jeremy Hill over Hyde, citing Hill's pass-protection abilities, among other reasons.

That shouldn't offend Hyde, who couldn't have found a better fit than San Francisco. Frank Gore, a geriatric as a 30-year-old running back, is also entering the final year of his contract. Still, Gore has started 14 or more games in all but two seasons with the 49ers.

Hyde has to compete with the incumbent Gore, as well as Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James and Marcus Lattimore. Behind their offensive line, however, it's hard to imagine "El Guapo" not succeeding at the next level.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2014-nfl-draft/2014/05/35724/buckeyes-nfl-post-draft-edition



They also drafted Carlos Hyde, the best running back in the draft, and Marcus Martin, one of the top centers. Hyde is a big back who runs hard and can catch the ball well out of the backfield. However, he’s slow in getting to top speed- he ran a sub par forty of 4.66 seconds. He slipped, being a running back, but has 1st round talent.

http://isportsweb.com/2014/05/13/nfl-draft-biggest-winners/



San Francisco 49ers: Stockpiling picks paid off for the 49ers, who grabbed the consensus best running back in the draft (Ohio State’s Carlos Hyde), a potential starting center (USC’s Marcus Martin) and a potential starting inside linebacker (Wisconsin’s Chris Borland). General manager Trent Baalke and head coach Jim Harbaugh might not get along, but they do know how to draft.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2014/05/2014-nfl-draft-day-2-winners-losers-49ers-keep-stockpiling-talent/



The Denver Broncos then traded up one spot with San Francisco to get another weapon for Peyton Manning in Cody Latimer, wide receiver from Indiana. At 57, the 49ers picked Ohio State running back Carlos Hyde – who a lot considered to be the best running back in the draft.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/patriots/content/20140509-live-blog-day-two-of-the-nfl-draft.ece



STRENGTHS

Very well built -- looks every bit the part. Outstanding size, explosive power and run strength -- can be his own blocker and create his own holes. Punishes linebackers running downhill and almost always falls forward. Superb contact balance and finishing strength -- does not go down easily and can barrel through arm tackles. Extremely powerful short-yardage/goal-line runner. Gets better with a lather as the game progresses. Took over the game in the fourth quarter vs. Northwestern (2013) and willed team to victory. Surprisingly quick in short spaces and can plant hard and go. Is solid in pass protection and can stonewall blitzers in their tracks. Good awareness and anticipation to react to stunts and adjust to movement. Soft hands-catcher. Plucked the ball very naturally at his pro-day workout.

WEAKNESSES

Lacks elite breakaway speed. Average elusiveness and make-you-miss. Is still learning what it means to really work and be a pro -- entered program with some underachiever traits early in career. Weight fluctuated earlier in his career and needs to pay more attention to nutrition. Has missed at least two games in three seasons.

DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 1-2

BOTTOM LINE

A big, strong, powerful, NFL feature back who carried the Buckeyes' offense as a senior and proved he can be a workhorse. Solid all-around, chunk runner well-built for the physicality of the AFC North.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/carlos-hyde?id=2543743

[Kaepernick]

Also, can I just say that these names:

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

Are ****ing horse shit.

The only good pick I like up there is Borland, and that's because I'm a Wisconsin homer. The Stevie Johnson trade was insane value, too.

Everything else is horseshit. Baalke sucks.


Carradine was well on his way to being a first round pick and potentially even a top 5-10 pick in April's NFL Draft before he tore is ACL in late November

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/2/22/4010966/2013-nfl-draft-prospects-de-cornellius-carradine-scouting-profile-denver-broncos



Why Tank Carradine is the Best DE Prospect In The NFL Draft

Had it not been for the injury, Carradine would have been the best pure 4-3 defensive end prospect in the draft and a surefire top ten pick, but but Carradine’s recovery from the ACL has been as remarkable as his season. The injury was suffered in early December and he is currently planning to have a full workout before the draft in April, barely four months after the injury.

http://www.footballnation.com/content/why-tank-carradine-is-the-best-de-prospect-the-nfl-draft/22201/

[Kaepernick]

People seem more impressed at the quantity of the picks than the quality of them. Guess I don't get it
Posted via Mobile Device

10 years ago, Hyde is a top 5 pick, but RBs are undervalued today. They still have real field value on power running offenses, as you will see from Hyde.

Tank Carradine projected to a top 10 pick before his injury.

The 49ers got 2 top 10 talents deep in the 2nd rounds. You do the math.

Throw in Stevie Johnson who has 3 consecutive 1000 yard seasons receiving basically from Matt Cassel.

Add Lemonier and Borland for kickers.

You will see the quality over time. You will be hearing these names called in the playoffs. Well actually, you will be seeing these guys week 5.