Music hacks Led Zeppelin steals music.

[confused]

Discuss.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/led-zeppelin-faces-copyright-infringement-allegations-172333171.html

Classic rock troupe Led Zeppelin's music is once again under the microscope amid allegations its iconic tune Stairway to Heaven draws from a song by an early contemporary: the Los Angeles band Spirit.
Family members of late Spirit guitarist Randy California and a surviving band member said they're seeking a copyright infringement case against the classic rockers.
The allegations, brought by Spirit bassist Mark Andes and California's estate, were raised in an in-depth feature report published in Bloomberg Businessweek last week.
The case comes to light just ahead of Led Zeppelin's planned reissue of its remastered albums, the first batch of which is slated to roll out June 3.
It's alleged the opening measures of Led Zeppelin's smash 1971 hit Stairway to Heaven was derived from Spirit's 1968 song Taurus, an instrumental tune California composed for his band's self-titled debut album.
Spirit crossed paths with or played the same events as Led Zeppelin in 1968 and 1969.
In an interview with the audiophile magazine Listener that was published after his death in early 1997, California had also pointed out the similarities in the two songs.
"The guys made millions of bucks on [Stairway to Heaven] and never said 'Thank you,' never said, 'Can we pay you some money for it?'" he told the magazine.
"It's kind of a sore point with me. Maybe someday their conscience will make them do something about it."
California, his estate and bandmate said there was never a previous legal challenge against Led Zeppelin over Stairway to Heaven due to lack of funds. Now, they are seeking recognition for the late musician via a writing credit on Stairway to Heaven.
It's not the first time musicians, their estates or other representatives have challenged Led Zeppelin over its well-known music, including hits such as Whole Lotta Love and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You.
Over the years, artists such as folk singer Anne Bredon and representatives for influential Chicago blues artists Chester (Howlin' Wolf) Burnett and Willie Dixon have settled copyright infringement suits with the band, which subsequently altered writing credits and redirected relevant royalties.

[The Franchise]

Q

[Reaper16]

Zepplin stole all kinds of shit. That's not news.

[Halfcan]

40 years later some money grubbing buzzards are trying to make a buck. That's Rock and Roll for ya!

[htismaqe]

Q

Zeppelin borrowed heavily from their influences as did a great many musicians at that time. Led Zeppelin failed to CREDIT their influences, unlike a great many musicians at that time.

However, several of the artists that successfully litigated against Led Zeppelin didn't do it FORTY YEARS AFTER THE FACT.

This looks a little cheesy to me.

[Halfcan]

Q

Zeppelin borrowed heavily from their influences as did a great many musicians at that time. Led Zeppelin failed to CREDIT their influences, unlike a great many musicians at that time.

However, several of the artists that successfully litigated against Led Zeppelin didn't do it FORTY YEARS AFTER THE FACT.

This looks a little cheesy to me.

This! Timed it before the latest Page remasters coming out for publicity.

Listening to Page-I think he was messed up on drugs and the music just came out in some cases and he thought it was original not knowing he heard it before. He did a ton of session work as well before Yardbirds and Zep-so who knows what tunes were rambling on in his mind? Not sure if this is the case or not for Stairway?

[WhawhaWhat]

However, several of the artists that successfully litigated against Led Zeppelin didn't do it FORTY YEARS AFTER THE FACT.

The case comes to light just ahead of Led Zeppelin's planned reissue of its remastered albums, the first batch of which is slated to roll out June 3.

The statute of limitations was probably up a long time ago but since they are reissuing the music I assume it starts the clock over again and the original artists are trying to get a piece of what they think they are owed.

[htismaqe]

The statute of limitations was probably up a long time ago but since they are reissuing the music I assume it starts the clock over again and the original artists are trying to get a piece of what they think they are owed.

Some of the original artists are DEAD.

Seems they would have been better served bringing this up 4 decades ago when the song first came out.

[patteeu]

<object width="250" height="40" <param name="movie" value="http://grooveshark.com/songWidget.swf" /><param name="wmode" value="window" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="flashvars" value="hostname=grooveshark.com&songID=36292398&style=metal&p=0" /><object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://grooveshark.com/songWidget.swf" width="250" height="40"><param name="wmode" value="window" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="flashvars" value="hostname=grooveshark.com&songID=36292398&style=metal&p=0" /><span><a href="http://grooveshark.com/search/song?q=Spirit%20Taurus" title="Taurus by Spirit on Grooveshark">Taurus by Spirit on Grooveshark</a></span></object></object>

[LoneWolf]

Haters gonna hate.

[LoneWolf]

Also, anyone who calls Led Zeppelin "music hacks" is a stupid motherfucker.

[htismaqe]

Fix your link Pat.

[Sannyasi]

I've heard the argument that blues musicians borrowed from each other and incorporated the work of others all the time. To me though, there is a difference between this kind of folk tradition and Led Zeppelin making millions of dollars off of these songs.

[LoneWolf]

Fix your link Pat.

Song is on YouTube. The first notes from Stairway are definitely in the Spirit song. Other than that there are no similarities.

[htismaqe]

Song is on YouTube. The first notes from Stairway are definitely in the Spirit song. Other than that there are no similarities.

I couldn't find the full song on Youtube. All I could find was the first chord progression looping over and over.

I'm sure you could find hundreds if not thousands of songs that have similar chord progressions or riffs for a brief period. That doesn't mean they copied a song.

[Dartgod]

I couldn't find the full song on Youtube. All I could find was the first chord progression looping over and over.

I'm sure you could find hundreds if not thousands of songs that have similar chord progressions or riffs for a brief period. That doesn't mean they copied a song.

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/xd8AVbwB_6E?hl=en_US&amp;version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/xd8AVbwB_6E?hl=en_US&amp;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[confused]

Also, anyone who calls Led Zeppelin "music hacks" is a stupid mother****er.
By calling Led Zeppelin hacks, am I also calling the 25 artists that Zep blatantly ripped off hacks? I say no. Jimmy Page couldn't escape a pentatonic scale, and there's a reason Robert Plant couldn't do shit outside of the thieves. "I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mooood!"

Yes, they're fucking hacks who suck floppy donkey dick.

[Gadzooks]

Dazed and Confused was written by the folk-rock singer Jake Holmes and released as a track in his debut album "The Above Ground Sound" Of Jake Holmes in 1967. That same year Jake Holmes opened for The Yardbirds in a show in New York where Jimmy Page heard the song. The song was rearranged and later became one of Led Zeppelin best-known songs, the debt to Jake Holmes however went largely unacknowledged by the band until 2012.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pTsvs-pAGDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[htismaqe]

Um yeah, there's a similarity in that one chord progression. Good luck getting money out of that, especially considering there's no lyrics. Several of the successful suits against Led Zeppelin were based on lyrical content.

[confused]

I couldn't find the full song on Youtube. All I could find was the first chord progression looping over and over.

I'm sure you could find hundreds if not thousands of songs that have similar chord progressions or riffs for a brief period. That doesn't mean they copied a song.
The first chord progression is note-for-note identical. The thieves also opened up for Spirit prior to writing Stairway, and were known to play multiple Spirit tunes from that exact same album during concerts. I'm all for chord similarities, but get real. If this was a first offense type of thing, I might be more willing to chalk it up a coincidence. It isn't though. Not by a longshot.

[Dartgod]

The first chord progression is note-for-note identical. The thieves also opened up for Spirit prior to writing Stairway, and were known to play multiple Spirit tunes from that exact same album during concerts. I'm all for chord similarities, but get real. If this was a first offense type of thing, I might be more willing to chalk it up a coincidence. It isn't though. Not by a longshot.

Now we just need Dayze to post in this thread.

[KChiefer]

Zepplin stole all kinds of shit. That's not news.

I noticed this a few years ago. I didn't know who Bobby Parker was, but I knew that riff...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/TvtabNAb_wE?list=PL83B75672B28268E8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wAYKCMke-To" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[saphojunkie]

They totally ripped off the idea, but that is not the same melody at all.

They heard a song, clearly wanted to do something similar, only they improved it.

[htismaqe]

The first chord progression is note-for-note identical. The thieves also opened up for Spirit prior to writing Stairway, and were known to play multiple Spirit tunes from that exact same album during concerts. I'm all for chord similarities, but get real. If this was a first offense type of thing, I might be more willing to chalk it up a coincidence. It isn't though. Not by a longshot.

Then they should have done something about it 40 years ago.

[htismaqe]

I noticed this a few years ago. I didn't know who Bobby Parker was, but I knew that riff...

That's a fairly standard blues turnaround. The Spirt/Stairway thing has more legs than this...

[saphojunkie]

The first chord progression is note-for-note identical. The thieves also opened up for Spirit prior to writing Stairway, and were known to play multiple Spirit tunes from that exact same album during concerts. I'm all for chord similarities, but get real. If this was a first offense type of thing, I might be more willing to chalk it up a coincidence. It isn't though. Not by a longshot.

No, it's not.

[confused]

Then they should have done something about it 40 years ago.
Why does it matter? Copyrights last for 70 years. Randy California died broke, and was known to play guitar at restaurants for meals. The lawsuit was originally brought up in 1996, but has recently come to light due to the soon-to-be re-release of Stairway to Heaven on CD.

[Bob Dole]

This! Timed it before the latest Page remasters coming out for publicity.

Listening to Page-I think he was messed up on drugs and the music just came out in some cases and he thought it was original not knowing he heard it before. He did a ton of session work as well before Yardbirds and Zep-so who knows what tunes were rambling on in his mind? Not sure if this is the case or not for Stairway?

The 3 of us in Bob Dole's band come up with riffs all the time, and one of the other 2 often points out that it sounds a lot like Obscure Song X. With the volume of music that has been created and the number of chord progressions pleasing to to western ear, it's pretty tough to come up with something that someone won't think "sounds like" something else. It's all a matter of degree.

[confused]

No, it's not.
It literally is.

7
..5.....6
....5
......5.7

[saphojunkie]

It literally is.

7
5 6
5
5 7

No, it's not.

[Deberg_1990]

I'm not sure there is an artist that didn't rip something off or get inspiration from something. unless you were the first guy on earth who sang and wrote a song.
Posted via Mobile Device

[confused]

No, it's not.
Yeah, it really is.

[saphojunkie]

Yeah, it really is.

Do you understand the term "note-for-note?" Or do you not have ears?

[confused]

I'm not sure there is an artist that didn't rip something off or get inspiration from something. unless you were the first guy on earth who sang and wrote a song.
Posted via Mobile Device
Led opened up for spirit and often played songs from Spirit's first album. The same album that "Taurus" is on. They obviously listened to that album often, and coincidentally wrote a song that made 536 million dollars using that same iconic intro. It's apples and oranges to try and say "every artist gets influenced!"

[confused]

Do you understand the term "note-for-note?" Or do you not have ears?
As an acoustic player for the past 20+ years, I think I can point out the duplication. For you to even grasp the term 'note-for-note' in a more literal sense, I actually tabbed out the 'note-for-note' progression that is stolen.

[ModSocks]

That's a fairly standard blues turnaround. The Spirt/Stairway thing has more legs than this...

Meh. I understand what you mean about standard blues chords....but when a band has a history of ripping off other musicians, it's hard to believe it's simply coincidence.

[suzzer99]

OP's grammar is bugging me. Hacks don't 'steals' music. They steal it.

[confused]

OP's grammar is bugging me. Hacks don't 'steals' music. They steal it.
Past tense, so stole.

[Nzoner]

What comes around.....

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_IR8iDqrXy8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ping2000]

I never understood the love for that song. And there are a lot of Zeppelin songs I like.

[htismaqe]

Why does it matter? Copyrights last for 70 years. Randy California died broke, and was known to play guitar at restaurants for meals. The lawsuit was originally brought up in 1996, but has recently come to light due to the soon-to-be re-release of Stairway to Heaven on CD.

Why is it more of a rip-off now than it was then? And yes, that's a rhetorical question.

[htismaqe]

As an acoustic player for the past 20+ years, I think I can point out the duplication. For you to even grasp the term 'note-for-note' in a more literal sense, I actually tabbed out the 'note-for-note' progression that is stolen.

And yet you ignored the rest of "Stairway to Heaven", including two distinct movements almost SEVEN MINUTES long that sound NOTHING like "Taurus".

A chord progression is not a song and 80% of "Stairway to Heaven" sounds nothing like "Taurus".

[Halfcan]

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:doh!: No wonder it has taken 40 years- you have to have more than a few notes that are similar to claim an entire freaking song With lyrics is a ripoff.

[cosmo20002]

Q

Zeppelin borrowed heavily from their influences as did a great many musicians at that time. Led Zeppelin failed to CREDIT their influences, unlike a great many musicians at that time.

However, several of the artists that successfully litigated against Led Zeppelin didn't do it FORTY YEARS AFTER THE FACT.

This looks a little cheesy to me.

"Borrowed heavily" is an understatement here. I remember first reading about this stuff a few years ago and watched some stuff on YouTube. A LOT of their music is straight-up stolen. It is THE SAME. I love Led Zep and was pretty shocked when I saw how much of it there was.
That Stairway intro is THE SAME. LZ opened for the band that wrote it, so it was no accident.

[htismaqe]

"Borrowed heavily" is an understatement here. I remember first reading about this stuff a few years ago and watched some stuff on YouTube. A LOT of their music is straight-up stolen. It is THE SAME. I love Led Zep and was pretty shocked when I saw how much of it there was.
That Stairway intro is THE SAME. LZ opened for the band that wrote it, so it was no accident.

Yeah, I'm not a huge Zeppelin fan and don't agree with the way they've handled it over the years.

What they did here is definitely not cool. But suing them for it 40 years after the fact really isn't all that cool either.

[Halfcan]

By calling Led Zeppelin hacks, am I also calling the 25 artists that Zep blatantly ripped off hacks? I say no. Jimmy Page couldn't escape a pentatonic scale, and there's a reason Robert Plant couldn't do shit outside of the thieves. "I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mood for a melody I'm in the mooood!"

Yes, they're ****ing hacks who suck floppy donkey dick.

STFU dumb post

[ModSocks]

Hrmmm....

So just out of curiosity, do you guys think more people would relate the song "Dazed and Confused" to Led Zep or to Jake Holmes?

In other words, If you asked someone who sang the song "Dazed and Confused", would they say Led Zep or Jake Holmes?

[eDave]

Hrmmm....

So just out of curiosity, do you guys think more people would relate the song "Dazed and Confused" to Led Zep or to Jake Holmes?

In other words, If you asked someone who sang the song "Dazed and Confused", would they say Led Zep or Jake Holmes?

Zeppelin made it all better. Hell, I play guitar and as I just fuck around throwing chords together, I find myself playing someone else's song. It's ALL been done before.

[htismaqe]

Hrmmm....

So just out of curiosity, do you guys think more people would relate the song "Dazed and Confused" to Led Zep or to Jake Holmes?

In other words, If you asked someone who sang the song "Dazed and Confused", would they say Led Zep or Jake Holmes?

There's like 20 people in the world who even know who Jake Homes is and 18 of them learned about him after they clicked on a "Led Zeppelin stole my song" thread.

:D

[ModSocks]

There's like 20 people in the world who even know who Jake Homes is and 18 of them learned about him after they clicked on a "Led Zeppelin stole my song" thread.

:D

Interesting. So even though Jake Holmes is the original author, More people would relate that song with Zep because Zep is wildly more popular.

Thank you for your observation htis, thank you very much.

[LoneWolf]

I'm pretty sure Robert Plant and Jimmy Page ran a train on confused's mother. Every song they "stole" they improved upon whatever concept they were inspired by. Have they and led these situations correctly over the years? No, but they were still a very talented band and some if the best musicians if their time.

[ModSocks]

According to Merriam Webster, these are words that are fairly synonymous with the word "Related"

associated, connected, interconnected, interrelated...... pertinent, relevant

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/related

So...would it be ok then, if i subbed the word related with the word relevant?

rel·e·vant
ˈreləvənt/Submit
adjective
closely connected or appropriate to the matter at hand.

Ahem: Would the general public find the song "Dazed and Confused" more relevant to LZ than they would Jake Holmes?

[KCUnited]

According to Merriam Webster, these are words that are fairly synonymous with the word "Related"

associated, connected, interconnected, interrelated...... pertinent, relevant

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/related

So...would it be ok then, if i subbed the word related with the word relevant?

rel·e·vant
ˈreləvənt/Submit
adjective
closely connected or appropriate to the matter at hand.

Ahem: Would the general public find the song "Dazed and Confused" more relevant to LZ than they would Jake Holmes?
Jake Holmes is more relevant than Jason Collins.

[ModSocks]

Jake Holmes is more relevant than Jason Collins.

So do you agree that the two words are interchangeable?

[KCUnited]

So do you agree that the two words are interchangeable?

0 ****s given, man. Just getting a chuckle at your hard on for the word relevant.

[ModSocks]

0 ****s given, man. Just getting a chuckle at your hard on for the word relevant.

Just proving my point yet again so dumb fuck will stop PMing me.

[Tombstone RJ]

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meh, there's not enough there to claim anything IMHO. Sounds like sour grapes more than music to me.

[Tombstone RJ]

Dazed and Confused was written by the folk-rock singer Jake Holmes and released as a track in his debut album "The Above Ground Sound" Of Jake Holmes in 1967. That same year Jake Holmes opened for The Yardbirds in a show in New York where Jimmy Page heard the song. The song was rearranged and later became one of Led Zeppelin best-known songs, the debt to Jake Holmes however went largely unacknowledged by the band until 2012.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pTsvs-pAGDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

yah, that's too bad. I really love that song too but credit should have been given to Holmes a long time ago.

[Tombstone RJ]

I noticed this a few years ago. I didn't know who Bobby Parker was, but I knew that riff...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/TvtabNAb_wE?list=PL83B75672B28268E8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wAYKCMke-To" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

similar but definitely different riffs.

[eDave]

"Borrowed heavily" is an understatement here. I remember first reading about this stuff a few years ago and watched some stuff on YouTube. A LOT of their music is straight-up stolen. It is THE SAME. I love Led Zep and was pretty shocked when I saw how much of it there was.
That Stairway intro is THE SAME. LZ opened for the band that wrote it, so it was no accident.

Gotta think there was some agreement there. Just a hunch. Most of this falls on Peter Grant, now dead.

[alpha_omega]

The real question is...."what does the other song sound like backwards?".

Oh, wait it's an instrumental.

[eDave]

Leave Led Zeppelin alone!

/tears

[Just Passin' By]

0 ****s given, man. Just getting a chuckle at your hard on for the word relevant.

If he ever learns to use a dictionary properly and understand context...


Look out!

[ModSocks]

If he ever learns to use a dictionary properly and understand context...


Look out!

Lol you still have nothing to say. So predictable.

[bdj23]

No stairway? Denied..

[jjjayb]

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It sounds more like a Pink Floyd song than Stairway to Heaven. When I listened to it, it made me think of this:



<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fNLhxKpfCnA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm talking about the guitar part that starts at the 1:25 mark in the Pink Floyd song.

[Molitoth]

Some of the original artists are DEAD.

Seems they would have been better served bringing this up 4 decades ago when the song first came out.

Did 4 decades ago have the court system we have now that allows people to sue for millions of WTF dollars?

[Molitoth]

Dazed and Confused was written by the folk-rock singer Jake Holmes and released as a track in his debut album "The Above Ground Sound" Of Jake Holmes in 1967. That same year Jake Holmes opened for The Yardbirds in a show in New York where Jimmy Page heard the song. The song was rearranged and later became one of Led Zeppelin best-known songs, the debt to Jake Holmes however went largely unacknowledged by the band until 2012.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pTsvs-pAGDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wow this version rules. Thanks!

[GESteve]

Money goes from hand to hand,Pussy goes from man to man,music goes from band to band

[confused]

There's like 20 people in the world who even know who Jake Homes is and 18 of them learned about him after they clicked on a "Led Zeppelin stole my song" thread.

:D
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/on-deadline/2012/07/20/Holmesx-wide-community.jpg

[confused]

I'm pretty sure Robert Plant and Jimmy Page ran a train on confused's mother. Every song they "stole" they improved upon whatever concept they were inspired by. Have they and led these situations correctly over the years? No, but they were still a very talented band and some if the best musicians if their time.
I stole my neighbor's corvette and improved it by giving it a new paintjob. Unfortunately, the judge found my defense to be lackluster at best.

[Imon Yourside]

I stole my neighbor's corvette and improved it by giving it a new paintjob. Unfortunately, the judge found my defense to be lackluster at best.

Shouldn't you be in jail now? ba bye.

[Coochie liquor]

Just like reggae artists (mostly dancehall) use the same riddims. They take a riddim and add a few of their own effects and lyrics over it to make the song theirs. I love Sublime, they have been a huge influence in mine and many others lives, but many of their songs are just covers that they reimagined fusing reggae, and punk rock. "What I Got", "Pawnshop", "54-46 was my number" along with many more are covers of early reggae songs. I think all artists steal or borrow somewhat from other artists.

[WhiteWhale]

People have known this since the 70's. There's a reason they were never on the cover of rolling stone...

[WhiteWhale]

I stole my neighbor's corvette and improved it by giving it a new paintjob. Unfortunately, the judge found my defense to be lackluster at best.

Bands steal music all the time.

I mean Deep Purple never credited the jazz bands from whom they stole pretty much every riff they ever performed.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Back in High School when the band first formed, I wrote a ton of music that I thought was awesome...only to have guys in the band say "dude, that's Megadeth" or "you are totally ripping off Metallica there".

Fuck it, I was NOT! At least on purpose.

To the OP story, I don't hear nearly enough sameness. Yes, the progression of the chords are very similar, but only for a short part of the song, and the phrasing ends differently. If anything, had I heard this without knowing what was going on, I would have said "these guys are kinda ripping of Zeppelin", but I never would have thought that they completely plagiarize them...so the reverse is true. It's possible that Zeppelin heard this song, and it inspired Stairway. But it is in no way similar enough throughout to say it's been plagiarized. JMO...

[Coochie liquor]

I can't post a YouTube link from my phone but there's a good 2 part thing on there called "everything is a remix" talks about how bands take other music and make it theirs.

[htismaqe]

Interesting. So even though Jake Holmes is the original author, More people would relate that song with Zep because Zep is wildly more popular.

Thank you for your observation htis, thank you very much.

I see what you're doing here. ;)

[htismaqe]

Did 4 decades ago have the court system we have now that allows people to sue for millions of WTF dollars?

So this is isn't about justice, it's about money.

[Imon Yourside]

So this is isn't about justice, it's about money.

Always about money.

[htismaqe]

Always about money.

The OP seems to think it's about justice...

[cosmo20002]

So this is isn't about justice, it's about money.

Can't those be the same?

[Frosty]

Now by popular demand! A list of some of the songs Zep stole from other artists:

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

http://www.warr.org/zep.html#Thieves

You know what, though? Don't care. :)

[Frosty]

The 5 Most Famous Musicians Who Are Thieving Bastards (http://www.cracked.com/article_18500_the-5-most-famous-musicians-who-are-thieving-bastards.html)

[Molitoth]

Honestly I've lost a lot of respect for LZ.
Still a great band, and the stuff they "stole" they did a better job on... but still something irks me about blatantly stealing someone's riffs that are almost exactly the same.

[Imon Yourside]

Nothing new under the sun, it's been stated long ago. Best to just move on and not be a whiny bitch.

[mr. tegu]

I'm not sure there is an artist that didn't rip something off or get inspiration from something. unless you were the first guy on earth who sang and wrote a song.
Posted via Mobile Device

You mean these guys?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dHxKXSvcRik" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DMAC]

I wish a hard rock band would open up the old blues catalog again and start rippin off some old backwater bluesy riffs again.

[Graystoke]

I dunno but this band sounds a lot like ZEP!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JCZVOSr6_J8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Baby Lee]

The 5 Most Famous Musicians Who Are Thieving Bastards (http://www.cracked.com/article_18500_the-5-most-famous-musicians-who-are-thieving-bastards.html)

Andrew Lloyd Webber was most blatant on Music of the Night

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/v8Zci-3ZvYg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Forward to 2:20
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[htismaqe]

Can't those be the same?

After 4 decades of incubation? No. Especially when at least one of the original members of the "infringed-upon" band is dead.

[LoneWolf]

I stole my neighbor's corvette and improved it by giving it a new paintjob. Unfortunately, the judge found my defense to be lackluster at best.

What a dumb fucking analogy. A bette one would be that your neighbor had a corvette sitting in his driveway. You liked certain aspects of the car and decided to build your own car. You used some of the ideas from your neighbor's corvette and built a kick ass car that when completed was a much better car than the corvette.

[Demonpenz]

blues is largely the same anyway.

[cosmo20002]

:facepalm: at the people defending LZ's stealing "borrowing and improving" of other people's creations without giving credit (and a slice of the royalties) without being forced to do so.

[alpha_omega]

John Fogerty disapproves of this thread.

[gblowfish]

Randy California and Spirit kick ass. I used to play Randy California on my college radio station. This was one of my favorite tracks. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AIhXMdf4cag" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Halfcan]

I dunno but this band sounds a lot like ZEP!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JCZVOSr6_J8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:hmmm: do you mean to tell me-there are bands out there-calling themeselves LeZ Zeppelin-an obvious rip off of LED-that are playing their songs- using their name and stealing their fans-and they are NOT paying Plant and Page Royalties?? :shake:

And since Bonzo died- Hundreds of tribute bands like ZOSO and Stairway to Zeppelin are playing all of Led's songs- stealing their fans and making money off their legacy??? And no royalties or even a thank you is being sent?? Wow-I hope they wait 40 years and sue their asses. :shake:

[Halfcan]

Randy California and Spirit kick ass. I used to play Randy California on my college radio station. This was one of my favorite tracks. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AIhXMdf4cag" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sounds like he stole Crosstown Traffic from Jimi-lol :thumb:

[Halfcan]

:facepalm: at the people defending LZ's stealing "borrowing and improving" of other people's creations without giving credit (and a slice of the royalties) without being forced to do so.

And how many people have made money off the LZ name, bootlegs, posters, articles, books, pictures, videos, playing their music live ect. and never had permission or paid one cent back to Zep?

[Tombstone RJ]

People have known this since the 70's. There's a reason they were never on the cover of rolling stone...

lol, only tards read rolling stone...

[confused]

What a dumb ****ing analogy. A bette one would be that your neighbor had a corvette sitting in his driveway. You liked certain aspects of the car and decided to build your own car. You used some of the ideas from your neighbor's corvette and built a kick ass car that when completed was a much better car than the corvette.
But Led Zeppelin didn't borrow music, they stole it. Stole. not used it as inspiration, they stole. Get that through your thick fucking head Rutherford Hayes.

[LoneWolf]

But Led Zeppelin didn't borrow music, they stole it. Stole. not used it as inspiration, they stole. Get that through your thick ****ing head Rutherford Hayes.

You started this dumb fuck thread because of a group suing Led Zeppelin over a song that is clearly not something that was "stolen". I'd call you fucking retarded, but I wouldn't want to insult other fucking retards by comparing them to you.

[confused]

You started this dumb **** thread because of a group suing Led Zeppelin over a song that is clearly not something that was "stolen". I'd call you ****ing retarded, but I wouldn't want to insult other ****ing retards by comparing them to you.
Yeah I started the ***** thread because of Zep getting sued, thanks for the airtight analysis Lee Corso. They are getting sued because they ****ing ripped off a song that just ***ing happened to turn into the most successful ****ing rock song of all time. Ripped off, as in STOLEN. You fucking waterhead.

[Halfcan]

Yeah I started the ***** thread because of Zep getting sued, thanks for the airtight analysis Lee Corso. They are getting sued because they ****ing ripped off a song that just ***ing happened to turn into the most successful ****ing rock song of all time. Ripped off, as in STOLEN. You ****ing waterhead.

Actually I believe- Yesterday-by the Beatles is the Most successful song of all time.

And having a few similar notes for one tenth of an entire song-is not ripping them off. :shake:

Do you get this riled up when Rap artist "Sample" the actual song- Tone Loc- stealing Jamie's Crying by VH- or Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen?? They take another artist Exact song and use it as their own.

[Sully]

I don't know why, but "waterhead" made me giggle. it was an actual giggle, out loud. That's good stuff.

[LoneWolf]

Yeah I started the ***** thread because of Zep getting sued, thanks for the airtight analysis Lee Corso. They are getting sued because they ****ing ripped off a song that just ***ing happened to turn into the most successful ****ing rock song of all time. Ripped off, as in STOLEN. You ****ing waterhead.

If you believe that Stairway was ripped off based on the evidence presented, then there is really no hope for you.

[Just Passin' By]

If you believe that Stairway was ripped off based on the evidence presented, then there is really no hope for you.

:hmmm:

10-15 notes = Entire 8:02 of the song

Elementary

[Baby Lee]

Actually I believe- Yesterday-by the Beatles is the Most successful song of all time.

And having a few similar notes for one tenth of an entire song-is not ripping them off. :shake:

Do you get this riled up when Rap artist "Sample" the actual song- Tone Loc- stealing Jamie's Crying by VH- or Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen?? They take another artist Exact song and use it as their own.

To be fair, those people have to negotiate royalty agreements with those artists, and 'Nilla Ice was successfully sued.

[confused]

:hmmm:

10-15 notes = Entire 8:02 of the song

Elementary
Certainly not the entire song, but definitely an integral part. I would argue that Page's fingerpicking intro to Stairway is easily the most iconic part of it.

[htismaqe]

Sounds like he stole Crosstown Traffic from Jimi-lol :thumb:

ROFL

Exactly what I thought.

Unless Jimi stole it from RANDY CALIFORNIA. :hmmm:

Is he the greatest unknown musician in America?

[htismaqe]

To be fair, those people have to negotiate royalty agreements with those artists, and 'Nilla Ice was successfully sued.

Bout time you showed up.

You're an expert in this field, set this thread straight.

[confused]

Actually I believe- Yesterday-by the Beatles is the Most successful song of all time.

And having a few similar notes for one tenth of an entire song-is not ripping them off. :shake:

Do you get this riled up when Rap artist "Sample" the actual song- Tone Loc- stealing Jamie's Crying by VH- or Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen?? They take another artist Exact song and use it as their own.
This is not about a band that just happened to sound similar to another band. Heck, there are only 12 notes in the scale, so it's bound to happen. However, this is about a band that actually played with another band & blatantly took part of that other band's song as their own.

This issue is not a sudden development when it comes to Led Zep, either. For decades, people have pointed to their constant use of other musicians' songs (especially a lot of old Blues cats), while just slightly re-working them, and giving absolutely zero credit to the original.

It's really not so different than when a hip hop artist takes a sample & lays different lyrics over top. If you give credit to the source of the sample, that's totally fine. But when you start claiming that you alone actually came up w/ that music is when there is an issue of plagiarism.

[htismaqe]

So which one of your songs did Led Zeppelin copy?

Or are you really Randy California?

[confused]

So which one of your songs did Led Zeppelin copy?

Or are you really Randy California?
1. Heartbreaker

2. I am not. Randy California died in 1997 saving his son from drowning in the ocean.

[tecumseh]

There are obvious similarities but not enough to warrant recompense. Sorry, Cali.

[Halfcan]

ROFL

Exactly what I thought.

Unless Jimi stole it from RANDY CALIFORNIA. :hmmm:

Is he the greatest unknown musician in America?

Maybe Randy California wrote most of the greatest songs and nobody realizes it. I know the Eagles stayed at his Hotel when they needed to come up with a classic. :thumb:

[confused]

Maybe Randy California wrote most of the greatest songs and nobody realizes it. I know the Eagles stayed at his Hotel when they needed to come up with a classic. :thumb:
*taps mic*

[Halfcan]

This is not about a band that just happened to sound similar to another band. Heck, there are only 12 notes in the scale, so it's bound to happen. However, this is about a band that actually played with another band & blatantly took part of that other band's song as their own.

This issue is not a sudden development when it comes to Led Zep, either. For decades, people have pointed to their constant use of other musicians' songs (especially a lot of old Blues cats), while just slightly re-working them, and giving absolutely zero credit to the original.

It's really not so different than when a hip hop artist takes a sample & lays different lyrics over top. If you give credit to the source of the sample, that's totally fine. But when you start claiming that you alone actually came up w/ that music is when there is an issue of plagiarism.

Great points! I really think a lot of it was Peter Grant-at least that is what Jimmy has alluded to when this subject comes up. Grant was like fuck em-they are probably dead already-why open up that can of worms. Make them sue us. Jimmy has also stated that in the time frames they had to work-he would take Plant's lyrics at face value-not realizing some were so close to original lyrics. Plant on the other hand would write stuff based on whatever he was listening too at the time that was influencing him. I don't think he purposely said- I am going to rip these guys off. They admired all those blues guys- and considered themselves a blues band at the core. They have went on record many times stating their influences as well and given credit to those that came before them. Led Zep was like a musical sausage grinder-they threw in everything but the oink and what came out was some of the greatest music in Rock history. It really is too bad they have this black mark on their record-they should have just paid small royalties. All in all they did far more to help bands in the future-by changing the entire concert pay scales- then what they hurt. And like I have stated- Led Zep has been copied infinately more times with no credit or royalties coming there way then the other way around.

[Halfcan]

To be fair, those people have to negotiate royalty agreements with those artists, and 'Nilla Ice was successfully sued.

Yep but Tone Loc never paid a penny to EVH according to him. Ice did get sued though and I think he signed over all the royalties when he was hung out a window by his ankles. Dog eat dog. So I guess it evened out.

[patteeu]

I don't really care whether it was "stolen" or not. I like Zeppelin's version infinitly better than Spirit's. I think copyright protections need to be dramatically reduced anyway.

[Gadzooks]

I don't really care whether it was "stolen" or not. I like Zeppelin's version infinitly better than Spirit's. I think copyright protections need to be dramatically reduced anyway.

Meh, the Spirit/Stairway argument is somewhat weak. The Jake Holmes/ Dazed and Confused argument is very solid.

For some reason the people on this board get their knickers in a bunch if you say anything untoward about Zeppelin or, heaven forbid, Jimmy Page's abilities as a guitar player.

Zeppelin have been known as tight-assed pricks when it comes to publishing and copyright. They balk at letting "their" songs be used in films and video games, (i.e. Guitar Hero), and also insist on the highest rates in terms of royalties.

It all seems hypocritical and douchy to me. I'm really surprised that this whole topic seems to be new to people every time it comes up. I'd have thought that by now it would be common knowledge.

[cosmo20002]

John Fogerty disapproves of this thread.

He lost a case for plagiarizing himself.

[cosmo20002]

:hmmm: do you mean to tell me-there are bands out there-calling themeselves LeZ Zeppelin-an obvious rip off of LED-that are playing their songs- using their name and stealing their fans-and they are NOT paying Plant and Page Royalties?? :shake:

And since Bonzo died- Hundreds of tribute bands like ZOSO and Stairway to Zeppelin are playing all of Led's songs- stealing their fans and making money off their legacy??? And no royalties or even a thank you is being sent?? Wow-I hope they wait 40 years and sue their asses. :shake:

They should be paying royalties, and probably are.

[cosmo20002]

And how many people have made money off the LZ name, bootlegs, posters, articles, books, pictures, videos, playing their music live ect. and never had permission or paid one cent back to Zep?

First, you can't defend one rip-off by pointing to another.
But you've listed a wide range of things here. Some of those things should have royalities attached, and likely do. A book or article would not.

[cosmo20002]

Actually I believe- Yesterday-by the Beatles is the Most successful song of all time.

And having a few similar notes for one tenth of an entire song-is not ripping them off. :shake:

Do you get this riled up when Rap artist "Sample" the actual song- Tone Loc- stealing Jamie's Crying by VH- or Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen?? They take another artist Exact song and use it as their own.

All that sampling is paid. It may not have been at first in the early days of doing it, but it sure is now.

[htismaqe]

Maybe Randy California wrote most of the greatest songs and nobody realizes it. I know the Eagles stayed at his Hotel when they needed to come up with a classic. :thumb:

ROFL

[htismaqe]

Jimmy Page's abilities as a guitar player.

:Lin:

Sorry, I know it's considered somewhat sacrilegious but I'm just not a big fan.

Tipton and Downing FTW!

[htismaqe]

1. Heartbreaker

Wait, wait.

What?

[Halfcan]

:Lin:

Sorry, I know it's considered somewhat sacrilegious but I'm just not a big fan.

Tipton and Downing FTW!

:thumb:
Have your heard any of the Redeemer of Souls yet? No Downing but Faulkner fills in nicely I have to admit. Seems he gave JP a huge shot in the arm. Reminds me a lot of the music pre- Turbo/ Painkiller era. Almost like it should be the bookend to Screaming for Vengence. Looking forward to hearing the whole CD.

[eDave]

:Lin:

Sorry, I know it's considered somewhat sacrilegious but I'm just not a big fan.

Tipton and Downing FTW!

I hear that a lot actually. For me though, he is my guitar idol (though he might have ****ed confused mom). I play now because he inspired me. In fact, I started with Stairway and just added chords from there. Stairway is probably the only song I can play that is not my own. He was pretty sloppy though. Heroin and all.

I would hang out with my huge Koss headphones (with volume control mind you) and listen to The Song Remains The Same over and over, imagining I was Page. Remember those early stereo systems with the plexi glass turntable cover?

I just think he is the shit. 100% homer. This thread pains me.

[Halfcan]

All that sampling is paid. It may not have been at first in the early days of doing it, but it sure is now.

Tell this to the artist Black Eyed Peas have ripped off "accidentally".

[htismaqe]

:thumb:
Have your heard any of the Redeemer of Souls yet? No Downing but Faulkner fills in nicely I have to admit. Seems he gave JP a huge shot in the arm. Reminds me a lot of the music pre- Turbo/ Painkiller era. Almost like it should be the bookend to Screaming for Vengence. Looking forward to hearing the whole CD.

Yeah I like Richie Faulkner, he's kind of a throwback. Glenn is definitely showing his age though. Richie smokes.

My favorite Priest era is pre-"Unleashed in the East". Absolutely love the first 4 albums. Hard to pick a favorite between Sad Wings, Sin After Sin, and Stained Class.

[Gadzooks]

htis - The way you've quoted me implies that I believe Jimmy Page is a good guitar player.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

My favorite is how the majority of "Greatest Guitar Player" lists in the media include Keith Richards.
The guy plays almost exclusively in open G tuning and only plays with 5 strings.
http://members.tripod.com/blue_lena/micawber2.jpg

[htismaqe]

I hear that a lot actually. For me though, he is my guitar idol (though he might have ****ed confused mom). I play now because he inspired me. In fact, I started with Stairway and just added chords from there. Stairway is probably the only song I can play that is not my own. He was pretty sloppy though. Heroin and all.

I would hang out with my huge Koss headphones (with volume control mind you) and listen to The Song Remains The Same over and over, imagining I was Page. Remember those early stereo systems with the plexi glass turntable cover?

I just think he is the shit. 100% homer. This thread pains me.

Yeah, I tried to emulate him early on when I first started playing guitar. But then my Dad turned me on to Deep Purple and that was really the end of my obsession with Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix.

[Halfcan]

First, you can't defend one rip-off by pointing to another.
But you've listed a wide range of things here. Some of those things should have royalities attached, and likely do. A book or article would not.

My point was- people have made a ton more money off Zep-then the other way around.

I wasn't saying they are entitled to royalties on all the articles written about them-just pointing out-it still generates a lot of cash to this day-that they don't see a dime of.

That's Rock and Roll!! Bands rip off other bands, managers rip of the band, labels rip off the band and managers, lawyers rip off all of them and in the end its the fans that get ripped off when the talent and music is diluted down to a marketable commodity-instead of what it was meant to be.

[eDave]

Tell this to the artist Black Eyed Peas have ripped off "accidentally".

Yea, those guys need to go away. But, that's where all the hot chicks are so they are serving some purpose. The new Nickleback.

[htismaqe]

people have made a ton more money off Zep

nq1tpCkAecI

[Halfcan]

I hear that a lot actually. For me though, he is my guitar idol (though he might have ****ed confused mom). I play now because he inspired me. In fact, I started with Stairway and just added chords from there. Stairway is probably the only song I can play that is not my own. He was pretty sloppy though. Heroin and all.

I would hang out with my huge Koss headphones (with volume control mind you) and listen to The Song Remains The Same over and over, imagining I was Page. Remember those early stereo systems with the plexi glass turntable cover?

I just think he is the shit. 100% homer. This thread pains me.

ROFL I had those! I would listen to the first Cars-I had a bootleg of their demos before anyone ever heard of them. Cheaptrick, Rush, Ted Nugent, Zep, Who, and ACDC the Bon Scott years before they really made it big in the US. I listened to U2 when they were just kids after seeing them on the Don Kirshner Power Hour. Sent off for their cassette-lol Oh the good ol days!! Now they have these ear plugs that hurt your damn ears and you don't get near the sound.

[Baby Lee]

nq1tpCkAecI

What is that, audition waiting room for The Shaggy DA?

http://www.boyactors.org.uk/posters/2216.jpg

[eDave]

Yeah, I tried to emulate him early on when I first started playing guitar. But then my Dad turned me on to Deep Purple and that was really the end of my obsession with Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix.

Can't argue with that man. Looking back, emulating Page was an easy way to get started. I did have that moment when I was playing around with Stairway and next thing I knew, I was playing Going To California. Started to expand after that. As confused said, pentatonic overkill. I do find, as I'm just composing, that that opening chord fits into a lot of places.

I can never get to the soul poured into Since I've Been Loving You. Chords are easy, playing with that emotion is impossible, as it should be.

THAT's the difference here. Dazed and Stairway would have never been in my life if not for Zeppelin. The originals just didn't have the ooomph, or Peter Grant, to get it out there.

My .02.

[cosmo20002]

Tell this to the artist Black Eyed Peas have ripped off "accidentally".

I'm not sure what your point is. Generally, all those samples get cleared and credit given and all the legal stuff handled before a song gets released to the public. If someone feels cheated, there are ways to address it. I don't see how any of this is really relevant to LZ.

[BigChiefFan]

I hear a few of the same notes, but hardly a rip off. Stairway makes Taurus look like a bitch.

[eDave]

Rush

\m/

[htismaqe]

pentatonic overkill

I can't say anything about Page when my favorite guitarist is Tony Iommi.

Pentatonics and power chords! \m/

[eDave]

Pentatonics and power chords! \m/

Whatever works and sounds good man.

Someone bashed Kieth Richards earlier for playing with just 5 strings. Protip: Remove your high E and play around for a month. Boom! You just got better.

Mass respect for Iommi. Just so technically accurate.

[cosmo20002]

[B]My point was- people have made a ton more money off Zep-then the other way around.

I wasn't saying they are entitled to royalties on all the articles written about them-just pointing out-it still generates a lot of cash to this day-that they don't see a dime of.

That's Rock and Roll!! Bands rip off other bands, managers rip of the band, labels rip off the band and managers, lawyers rip off all of them and in the end its the fans that get ripped off when the talent and music is diluted down to a marketable commodity-instead of what it was meant to be.

OK, but none of this is justification for taking something you didn't create and not giving due credit.
I'm not even sure why this is an issue.

[eDave]

... taking something you didn't create and not giving due credit.
I'm not even sure why this is an issue.

That has yet to be determined. I can sue them tomorrow if I wanted to. Total BS but I could try.

Taurus fucked themselves.

[htismaqe]

Whatever works and sounds good man.

Someone bashed Kieth Richards earlier for playing with just 5 strings. Protip: Remove your high E and play around for a month. Boom! You just got better.

Mass respect for Iommi. Just so technically accurate.

While missing the ends of a couple of fingers, no less.

[cosmo20002]

That has yet to be determined. I can sue them tomorrow if I wanted to. Total BS but I could try.

Taurus ****ed themselves.

I don't know the reasons for not doing something earlier. I also don't know the legal standards for reaching the threshold of deserving credit. I just know that the part is a very recognizable part of Stairway and obviously lifted from Spirit.