MMQB/SI: Keeping It Together

[Dante84]

Keeping It Together (http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/23/kansas-city-chiefs-offseason-rebuilding/)
Despite a rough offseason lowlighted by a series of player defections, Chiefs GM John Dorsey isn’t about to stray from his longterm plan to rebuild the program

The Chiefs were one of the surprise stories of the 2013 season. After posting a 2–14 record in ’12, coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey tweaked the roster enough to usher in a nine-game improvement and the franchise’s second playoff berth since 2006.

There were a lot of good things to build off. And with players entering the second year in Reid’s offense, and the attacking 3-4 defense of coordinator Bob Sutton, a program of sustained success—a hallmark of Reid’s Eagles teams—was set to take off.

Then free agency started, and the Chiefs were raided. LT Branden Albert, OGs Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz, safeties Quintin Demps and Kendrick Lewis, defensive linemen Tyson Jackson and Jerrell Powe, linebacker Akeem Jordan and versatile offensive threat Dexter McCluster all exited.

The Chiefs, who were on the lower end of the salary cap list before free agency with just over $9 million available, didn’t really have much of a choice in letting those players go. The seven players they signed are mostly of the journeyman variety. But Dorsey isn’t deterred.

“It’s always tough,” Dorsey said Thursday. “You need depth to compete in this league. As you go along with this thing, you have to establish the culture. You have to get players that you want, that will come and compete on a daily basis, be proud to come here as a Kansas City Chief. Not saying those guys weren’t, that’s why you have to be able to manage and balance that cap and look out and forecast. The guys we lost, I think we’ve done a nice job in terms of replacing them at a lower number but with the same production.”

“I think we’re getting faster. It’s not your dad’s NFL anymore. The field is stretched out so far… I don’t think you can have enough of those guys.”

The departures also meant that the Chiefs needed to do some work in the draft. That’s why it was a bit of a surprise when they selected Auburn end Dee Ford, who projects to outside linebacker in the Chiefs’ scheme, 23rd overall instead of finding help in the secondary or at receiver. Outside linebacker was one position where Kansas City seemed secure, with Tamba Hali (second-team All-Pro) and Justin Houston (21 sacks in past 27 games). But Hali turned 30 earlier this month, and his contract finishes with a $12 million cap number in ’15. And the Chiefs saw the effect of not having adequate depth. Both Hali and Houston missed time during the second half of the season and the Chiefs’ pass rush (and defense, overall) fell off a cliff.

“I think in today’s NFL you need not just two, [but] multiple pass rushers to continually apply pressure,” Dorsey said.

Dorsey also didn’t want to lose Ford, who was one of the few proven pass rushers in a weak draft at that position. Dorsey admitted he didn’t have enough ammunition to go up and get a Khalil Mack (fifth overall to Oakland). He also declined options to move back.

“When you weigh the compensation against the value of the player, I thought the player would be the better pick,” he said. “And we had heard some rumors that people were trying to move up to get Dee Ford too, so I didn’t want to move back too far.”

Last August after a training camp practice at Missouri Western State University, Dorsey acknowledged that a lack of speed on both sides of the ball were a problem he was aiming to rectify. Ford, third-round cornerback Phillip Gaines (4.38 speed in the 40-yard dash) and fourth-rounder De’Anthony Thomas, a McCluster replacement, all fit that bill.

“I think we’re getting faster,” Dorsey said. “We’ll continue looking for that. It’s not your dad’s NFL anymore. The field is stretched out so far, everybody runs and is so athletic in today’s game… I don’t think you can have enough of those guys in either Andy’s offense or Bob’s defense.”

It is curious, however, that they declined to address receiver in free agency or the draft. In addition to Dwayne Bowe—Dorsey said he is in “magnificent” shape—the Chiefs maintained the status quo with Donnie Avery, A.J. Jenkins, Weston Dressler and Junior Hemingway. Dorsey’s OK with that, provided that 2013 third-round tight end Travis Kelce is healthy after missing nearly his entire rookie season following microfracture surgery on his knee.

“The way that group started to come on towards the end, and getting used to the offense, you could see that they were beginning to understand their roles and what they were supposed to do,” Dorsey said. “It’s going to be a collective effort. And the emergence of a Travis Kelce being able to stretch the field as a tight end, hopefully that weapon adds another element to the passing game. We took some nicks at the tight end position last year.”

[B]FLEEING K.C.
The key players who left the Chiefs during the offseason (including number of starts during the 2013 regular season):

LT Branden Albert (12)
OG Jon Asamoah (9)
OG Geoff Schwartz (7)
WR/RS Dexter McCluster (6)
S Kendrick Lewis (15)
S Quintin Demps (6)
LB Akeem Jordan (10)
DE Tyson Jackson (9)
NT Jerrell Powe (1)

One player to keep an eye on during Chiefs camp: sixth-round offensive lineman Laurent (Larry) Duvernay-Tardif, a 6-5, 315-pound Canadian collegiate prospect who caught Dorsey’s eye at the East-West Shrine Game. While Duvernay-Tardif wasn’t invited to the combine, his pro day testing numbers would have been near the top had he been. He’s one of the top Canadian prospects to ever enter the NFL.

“He’s an extremely gifted athlete,” Dorsey said. “You watch him on film and you see his athleticism, his toughness. He’s going to need a little work as far as a technical understanding of the pro game, but that won’t be for lack of effort. That guy is wearing the coaches out already… he wants to know everything and why.”

The Chiefs surprised many last season when they went from the AFC West basement to challenging the Broncos for the division title. That may have technically been the first year of the Reid-Dorsey regime, but after a forced reset of the roster this offseason, the real program building starts now. The Chiefs may be hard-pressed to live up to last year’s success, but Reid and Dorsey have a plan and they’re sticking to it..

[Baby Lee]

“He’s an extremely gifted athlete,” Dorsey said. “You watch him on film and you see his athleticism, his toughness. He’s going to need a little work as far as a technical understanding of the pro game, but that won’t be for lack of effort. That guy is wearing the coaches out already… he wants to know everything and why.”

Harder than a blued steel Snap-On ratchet.

[ModSocks]

Harder than a blued steel Snap-On ratchet.

and @ half the cost too

[KC_Lee]

So can someone please tell me why the loss of Lewis & TJax is such a bad thing for KC?

[Bowser]

So can someone please tell me why the loss of Lewis & TJax is such a bad thing for KC?

No, nobody can do that.

[BigMeatballDave]

So can someone please tell me why the loss of Lewis & TJax is such a bad thing for KC?

I consider this an improvement.

[RealSNR]

I just "lost" a nasal infection a few days ago.

My status for the next year is now questionable

[Bowser]

I just "lost" a nasal infection a few days ago.

My status for the next year is now questionable

You're "day to day, just like the rest of us". /Go-to ESPN joke

[htismaqe]

So can someone please tell me why the loss of Lewis & TJax is such a bad thing for KC?

In the case of TJax, we brought in a replacement.

In the case of Kendrick Lewis, we are apparently replacing him with guys that weren't good enough to beat him out last year. That's a little concerning.

[fairladyZ]

In the case of TJax, we brought in a replacement.

In the case of Kendrick Lewis, we are apparently replacing him with guys that weren't good enough to beat him out last year. That's a little concerning.

commings was hurt all year so couldn't beat him out. And abdullah came on very strong at the end and easily out played and should have started over kendrick the last half of the season

[DTLB58]

Whenever you lose FA, especially starters the national media always thinks it's a bad thing. Plus, one copy cats off of another's story and really doesn't do the work by doing interviews or watching tape to realize the team didn't ask them back and viewed it has addition by subtraction, making the team better.

The are lot of lazy sports writers out there. And there are a lot of really good ones. My son being one of them :)

[htismaqe]

commings was hurt all year so couldn't beat him out. And abdullah came on very strong at the end and easily out played and should have started over kendrick the last half of the season

Shoulda, woulda.

Commings has a history of injury. Kendrick held on to his starting spot despite some outright horrible play.

Both of those are cause for concern.

[Saccopoo]

Dorsey acknowledged that a lack of speed on both sides of the ball were a problem he was aiming to rectify. Ford, third-round cornerback Phillip Gaines (4.38 speed in the 40-yard dash) and fourth-rounder De’Anthony Thomas, a McCluster replacement, all fit that bill.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/assets/images/imported/KC/photos/article-images/dorsey-1.jpg

=

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Al+Davis+Oakland+Raiders+Promote+Hue+Jackson+bd3rcTBnwVZl.jpg

[Tombstone RJ]

Dorsey/Reid's long term plan: continue kc's zero playoff win tradition for 3 decades, since 2 decades is pretty meh.

[Dante84]

I just "lost" a nasal infection a few days ago.

My status for the next year is now questionable

You must be a Chiefs mid-round TE prospect.

Tony/Brad/Travis?

[Dave Lane]

So did Al Davis dies of AIDS?


Or smashing into a flaming AIDS tree after chugging antifreeze?

[Saccopoo]

So did Al Davis dies of AIDS?


Or smashing into a flaming AIDS tree after chugging antifreeze?

Those are heat vapor burns from standing too close to the track where he was timing all his awesome draft picks.

Dorsey will be similarly afflicted sooner rather than later.

[htismaqe]

Those are heat vapor burns from standing too close to the track where he was timing all his awesome draft picks.

Dorsey will be similarly afflicted sooner rather than later.

From standing too close to the hot tub in the training room? That's where most of his draft picks hang out.

[Hoover]

LT Branden Albert (12) - We will miss
OG Jon Asamoah (9) - Whatever
OG Geoff Schwartz (7) - Kind of miss
WR/RS Dexter McCluster (6) - Whatever
S Kendrick Lewis (15) - Thank God
S Quintin Demps (6) - Whatever
LB Akeem Jordan (10) - Whatever
DE Tyson Jackson (9) - Oh well
NT Jerrell Powe (1) - Whatever

Point is if we get decent OT and OG play, we really have not lost anything.

[Hoover]

http://www.kcchiefs.com/assets/images/imported/KC/photos/article-images/dorsey-1.jpg

=

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Al+Davis+Oakland+Raiders+Promote+Hue+Jackson+bd3rcTBnwVZl.jpg

Is it legal to dig up a dead body, stage it, and take pictures of it?

[Saccopoo]

From standing too close to the hot tub in the training room? That's where most of his draft picks hang out.

Before and after the draft.

[htismaqe]

Before and after the draft.

Consistency is view as a positive trait. :D

[Halfcan]

LT Branden Albert (12) - We will miss
OG Jon Asamoah (9) - Whatever
OG Geoff Schwartz (7) - Kind of miss
WR/RS Dexter McCluster (6) - Whatever
S Kendrick Lewis (15) - Thank God
S Quintin Demps (6) - Whatever
LB Akeem Jordan (10) - Whatever
DE Tyson Jackson (9) - Oh well
NT Jerrell Powe (1) - Whatever

Point is if we get decent OT and OG play, we really have not lost anything.

:thumb: Spot on.

[DeepSouth]

What does "MMQB" stand for?

[Tombstone RJ]

LT Branden Albert (12) - We will miss
OG Jon Asamoah (9) - Whatever
OG Geoff Schwartz (7) - Kind of miss
WR/RS Dexter McCluster (6) - Whatever
S Kendrick Lewis (15) - Thank God
S Quintin Demps (6) - Whatever
LB Akeem Jordan (10) - Whatever
DE Tyson Jackson (9) - Oh well
NT Jerrell Powe (1) - Whatever

Point is if we get decent OT and OG play, we really have not lost anything.

your oline is worse than it was last year and last year it was middle of the pack. Also, your WR's suck. So, you got that going for you.

[Tombstone RJ]

What does "MMQB" stand for?

Monday Morning Quarter Back.

[Saccopoo]

your oline is worse than it was last year and last year it was middle of the pack. Also, your WR's suck. So, you got that going for you.

We're still going to kick your ass fag.

[Tombstone RJ]

We're still going to kick your ass pillowbiter.

ROFL

[Saccopoo]

A realistic look at the FA losses:

LT Branden Albert
- While a perpetual Chiefs Planet fan favorite, Albert was never technically proficient enough to be a top flight NFL left tackle and while it was greeted with cries of "Heresy!" and "Dumbass!", Albert could have been an All-Pro level left guard and should have been moved back to his college position after his completely underwhelming rookie year. Both Fisher and Stephenson have substantially higher ceilings as offensive tackles and you saw that at the end of the 2013 season.

OG Jon Asamoah
- Never lived up to his college All-American hype and never progressed beyond his rookie year. The concerns about his game prior to the draft were legitimate (slow out of his stance, let guys under his pads and was more finesse than power). He was easily outplayed by journeyman Schwartz in 2013.

OG Geoff Schwartz
- Just because you outplayed Asamoah doesn't mean that you are suddenly the greatest right guard in the game of football. Schwartz is now on his fourth team in four years. He's average at best. He was laterally replaced by Jeff Linkenbach, who is the exact same player with the same type of game.

WR/RS Dexter McCluster
- Dexter will be missed more than most people around here think. The guy loved football and played hard. He was the most dependable receiver on the team in 2013 and had his best year as a returner. Everyone thinks that DAT will immediately supercede McCluster, but I have my doubts. At this point, it looks like they replaced McCluster with a cheaper version at best.

S Kendrick Lewis
- What happened to this guy? (Well, a lingering shoulder injury happened actually, but...) His rookie year he flashed some good instincts and nose for the ball, but regressed to the point where he was a liability in coverage and run support in 2013. Never had great speed and when you are afraid to tackle because of an injury, it's not going to help your career. Commings is bigger, much faster and has better coverage skills. While also injured, I think that his physical skills will provide much better production than what you got out of Lewis in 2013. As well, Abdullah continued to get better every game after taking a year off for a personal/religious sabbatical and by the end of the year he was playing some very solid football.

S Quintin Demps
- no1curr. Horrible safety, decent return guy who's contributions are immediately replaced by Joe McKnight, Knile Davis or anybody else.

LB Akeem Jordan
- Does anyone remember Jordan from last season? Invisible. Mays is neither better nor worse. One hopes that 2013 draft pick Nico Johnson progresses and shows the instincts, athleticism and willingness to hit that made him a high school All-American and All-Conference player at Alabama.

DE Tyson Jackson
- With a team already invested in one of the better run stuffing 34 DE's in the league in Mike DeVito, Jackson's salary was unnecessary on this team which needed a guy to push the pocket more than one to fill a hole. Between Walker, Bailey and a beefed up Catapano, Jackson was not a necessity and may have been holding the defense back.

NT Jerrell Powe
- Despite production and flashing pocket collapsing potential in the preseason, Powe never got the call during the regular season to help spell the excessive reps incurred by Dontari Poe. Baffling, but there's obviously a reason that no one has ever expressed or extrapolated upon. Looks like they are once again going to ride the Poe horse into the ground at NT.

[RealSNR]

your oline is worse than it was last year and last year it was middle of the pack. Also, your WR's suck. So, you got that going for you.

I doubt it will be worse.

Stephenson will be an upgrade at RT, and Allen and Hudson figure to be improved from last year. Our RG is a huge question mark, but we have like 8000 different guys competing for that one spot. I'm sure one of them can at least keep the status quo of Asamoah's shitty play going.

It comes down to Fisher at LT. I think he's going to be a bit of a downgrade from Albert, so you might be right.

In any case, it's not like it's going to be a terrible offensive line. We'll be able to win some games with it.

[Coochie liquor]

your oline is worse than it was last year and last year it was middle of the pack. Also, your WR's suck. So, you got that going for you.

And you're smoking a kilo of crack if you think this division is yours for the taking. Just like us you don't have lots of lesser teams to put big numbers up against. You have some pretty amazing defenses that will (as shown in the embarrassing Super Bowl loss where you were out played an out coached for 60 minutes) give your "dream team" lots of problems. Not go mention Super Bowl loss hangover, and the fact that once those defenses come down hard on 5 head and he gets beat up that you may have to deal with Assweiler as your qb! No manning will expose your offensive coordinator and head coach for what they are. Mediocre at best! Can't wait to see the demise of the Donkey dongs this season.

[Hoover]

We replaced Dexter in the draft. He was a good player, but we replaced him with De'Anthony Thomas, which is my book is actually an upgrade.

[Hoover]

I doubt it will be worse.

Stephenson will be an upgrade at RT, and Allen and Hudson figure to be improved from last year. Our RG is a huge question mark, but we have like 8000 different guys competing for that one spot. I'm sure one of them can at least keep the status quo of Asamoah's shitty play going.

It comes down to Fisher at LT. I think he's going to be a bit of a downgrade from Albert, so you might be right.

In any case, it's not like it's going to be a terrible offensive line. We'll be able to win some games with it.
This is spot on. I don't really question Stephenson, I think he's ready. I also feel that the year under Fisher's belt will help him a lot, yet I will admit there are some questions about him. RG is a concern, but I'm not going to cry over that.

[Discuss Thrower]

WR/RS Dexter McCluster
- Dexter will be missed more than most people around here think. The guy loved football and played hard. He was the most dependable receiver on the team in 2013 and had his best year as a returner. Everyone thinks that DAT will immediately supercede McCluster, but I have my doubts. At this point, it looks like they replaced McCluster with a cheaper version at best.


Don't think of it as D'AT > McCluster, but think about the kind of production that Dave Toub gets out of his returners.

[Saccopoo]

ROFL

Laugh all you want, but the losses of Zane Beadles and Eric Decker are significant.

You think Sanders is going to be able to set all those picks the way that Decker did? Latimer isn't remotely close to the player that Decker was and he's a rookie.

And you've got absolutely nobody who's going to fill the void left by Beadles departure.

While it looks like you loaded up on the defensive side of the ball, you got an overpriced OLB/DE in Ware that hasn't seen the field in two years who is now in his tenth year in the league.

Talib is worthless against the Edwards/Reid West Coast offensive system.

Ward was a very good pickup however.

[Coochie liquor]

This is spot on. I don't really question Stephenson, I think he's ready. I also feel that the year under Fisher's belt will help him a lot, yet I will admit there are some questions about him. RG is a concern, but I'm not going to cry over that.

Plus putting Fisher back at the position that he was drafted to play originally and that he played college at is going to help him a lot also.

[Saccopoo]

Don't think of it as D'AT > McCluster, but think about the kind of production that Dave Toub gets out of his returners.

He'll be fine on punt returns.

It's the WR position that I'm concerned about. Dexter was quite solid for us last season and really carried the position for the better part of the first half of the season until Avery and Bowe finally came around (though I'm not sure either really did at all, at least completely).

[ptlyon]

Plus putting Fisher back at the position that he was drafted to play originally and that he played college at is going to help him a lot also.

:titus:

[Discuss Thrower]

He'll be fine on punt returns.

It's the WR position that I'm concerned about. Dexter was quite solid for us last season and really carried the position for the better part of the first half of the season until Avery and Bowe finally came around (though I'm not sure either really did at all, at least completely).

Occupy your time watching Jenkins and Hemingway tape.

The fact that one of these two will be counted to replace Dex has to have been the reason why the FO didn't prioritize WRs in the draft and off season.

And don't say "Weston Dressler".

[Tombstone RJ]

Laugh all you want, but the losses of Zane Beadles and Eric Decker are significant.

You think Sanders is going to be able to set all those picks the way that Decker did? Latimer isn't remotely close to the player that Decker was and he's a rookie.

And you've got absolutely nobody who's going to fill the void left by Beadles departure.

While it looks like you loaded up on the defensive side of the ball, you got an overpriced OLB/DE in Ware that hasn't seen the field in two years who is now in his tenth year in the league.

Talib is worthless against the Edwards/Reid West Coast offensive system.

Ward was a very good pickup however.

:LOL:

wrong again. Just stop already.

[Saccopoo]

Occupy your time watching Jenkins and Hemingway tape.

The fact that one of these two will be counted to replace Dex has to have been the reason why the FO didn't prioritize WRs in the draft and off season.

And don't say "Weston Dressler".

Hemingway will most likely be the guy, but they'll have to be creative with him in the offense. He's big, instinctive, fast with good hands and runs good routes, but he's slow as shit initially off the line and will need to be used much in the same way as what Denver did with Decker last season, i.e., set his picks and run him off them as a secondary option.

Dressler is the same guy as McCluster and DAT. Most likely slower, but probably a better, more instinctive football player. With the drafting of DAT, I doubt he makes the final roster.

Jenkins...eh. Nobody knows who this fucking guy is. Most likely a poor man's Donnie Avery. Fast, but a shitty route runner with bad hands who the 49ers were willing to trade for Jon Baldwin (let that sink in for a moment if you will) is who is he at this point.

[Tombstone RJ]

And you're smoking a kilo of crack if you think this division is yours for the taking. Just like us you don't have lots of lesser teams to put big numbers up against. You have some pretty amazing defenses that will (as shown in the embarrassing Super Bowl loss where you were out played an out coached for 60 minutes) give your "dream team" lots of problems. Not go mention Super Bowl loss hangover, and the fact that once those defenses come down hard on 5 head and he gets beat up that you may have to deal with Assweiler as your qb! No manning will expose your offensive coordinator and head coach for what they are. Mediocre at best! Can't wait to see the demise of the Donkey dongs this season.

I see kc maybe winning 6 games. Maybe. I see the Broncos winning the division, again.

[ptlyon]

I see kc maybe winning 6 games. Maybe. I see the Broncos winning the division, again.

icurpp

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Say what you will, but we haven't had a GM like this since Steadman and Hunt wrote the book on mining small colleges for African American players.

I hope Dorsey never loses his hunger.

[ptlyon]

Say what you will, but we haven't had a GM like this since Steadman and Hunt wrote the book on mining small colleges for African American players.

I hope Dorsey never loses his hunger.

Thanks for posting

[Mr. Laz]

Chiefs GM John Dorsey isn’t about to stray from his longterm plan to rebuild the program
oooooooooooooh ... some people are going to be pissed about that word

:p

[Just Passin' By]

I see kc maybe winning 6 games. Maybe. I see the Broncos winning the division, again.

The AFC is likely to be a 2 team race (Patriots/Broncos) with 3 "what if" teams (Colts/Bengals/Ravens) and 1 "it could happen" team (Steelers).

The NFC is likely to be a 2 team race (Seahawks/49ers) with 2 "what if" teams (Packers/Saints) and 3 "it could happen" teams (Panthers/Falcons/Cardinals)

After that, it's all upsets, IMO.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

oooooooooooooh ... some people are going to be pissed about that word

:p


Not me. Not one damned bit. I won't exclude all of Herm's picks as some of them may have long shelf-lives, but last year was it. That was your chance to grab the ring for the majority of those guys.

[Just Passin' By]

Not me. Not one damned bit. I won't exclude all of Herm's picks as some of them may have long shelf-lives, but last year was it. That was your chance to grab the ring for the majority of those guys.

The Chiefs had Pro Bowlers all over the place last year. If their GM is truly in rebuilding mode, and that's why he had the offseason he did, he should be fired immediately.

[Saccopoo]

The AFC is likely to be a 2 team race (Patriots/Broncos) with 3 "what if" teams (Colts/Bengals/Ravens) and 1 "it could happen" team (Steelers).

The NFC is likely to be a 2 team race (Seahawks/49ers) with 2 "what if" teams (Packers/Saints) and 3 "it could happen" teams (Panthers/Falcons/Cardinals)

After that, it's all upsets, IMO.

Rams.

Watch out for the Rams.

[Mr. Laz]

Not me. Not one damned bit. I won't exclude all of Herm's picks as some of them may have long shelf-lives, but last year was it. That was your chance to grab the ring for the majority of those guys.
1st - i disagree, many of them have 1 or 2 more years.

2nd - if last year was it for some players then why are they still on the team? Cut them and move on. we are doing neither.

Dorsey just doesn't give a shit about 'now' he is about about building for 2/3 years down the road. He predicts/decides which players are going to leave the team next year and drafts to replace them.

The draftee has a chance to learn from the guy they are replacing for a year. I imagine going forward Dorsey will want to extend that and draft 2 years ahead as the team fills out.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

your oline is worse than it was last year and last year it was middle of the pack. Also, your WR's suck. So, you got that going for you.

The Broncos are just one injured QB away from being a heaping pile of shit and you know it.

[Halfcan]

I see kc maybe winning 6 games. Maybe. I see the Broncos winning the division, again.

Did you foresee the Donk's ass kicking in the SB too?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The Chiefs had Pro Bowlers all over the place last year. If their GM is truly in rebuilding mode, and that's why he had the offseason he did, he should be fired immediately.

He had to stop the blood loss. That came in the form of Alex Smith. That also came at a high cost. It was a compromise, but you do what you have to do when the CEO tells you to immediately right the ship.

[Just Passin' By]

He had to stop the blood loss. That came in the form of Alex Smith. That also came at a high cost. It was a compromise, but you do what you have to do when the CEO tells you to immediately right the ship.

Bullshit

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

1st - i disagree, many of them have 1 or 2 more years.

2nd - if last year was it for some players then why are they still on the team? Cut them and move on. we are doing neither.

Dorsey just doesn't give a shit about 'now' he is about about building for 2/3 years down the road. He predicts/decides which players are going to leave the team next year and drafts to replace them.

The draftee has a chance to learn from the guy they are replacing for a year. I imagine going forward Dorsey will want to extend that and draft 2 years ahead as the team fills out.

1) Because it's a transition and not a scorch the earth policy ala Herm.

2) See item #1.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Bullshit

Yes, I'm sure after the colossal failure of Pioli, Clark Hunt's prime directive was, "guys, just take your time"!:shake:

[Mr. Laz]

1) Because it's a transition and not a scorch the earth policy ala Herm.

2) See item #1.

so you are claiming that all our good players just fell off a cliff?

last year they were good enough, this year they suck?


fuggin n00bs

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

so you are claiming that all our good players just fell off a cliff?

last year they were good enough, this year they suck?


fuggin n00bs


No. I really don't get what you're arguing with me about when you basically said the exact same thing.

You said "1 to 3 years", and I said "it's a transition". And clearly, it IS a transition, hence the Ford pick. Yes, yes, Dorsey can say that "you can never have enough pass-rushers" but let's be realistic.
But to the point; we'll be competitive but last years schedule provided the best chance at grabbing it all with the aging Pro Bowl crew.

[Discuss Thrower]

No. I really don't get what you're arguing with me about when you basically said the exact same thing.

You said "1 to 3 years", and I said "it's a transition". And clearly, it IS a transition, hence the Ford pick. Yes, yes, Dorsey can say that "you can never have enough pass-rushers" but let's be realistic.
But to the point; we'll be competitive but last years schedule provided the best chance at grabbing it all with the aging Pro Bowl crew.

Lacking a halfway decent OLB behind Hali and Houston contributed to a lot of defensive pain for KC last season.

Sure, Hali might (probably) be out the door once March 2015 rolls around, but as long as he and Houston are both on the roster Dee Ford is just as much as a "win-now" need filler as much as it as a rebuild pick to replace Tamba.

[Mr. Laz]

No. I really don't get what you're arguing with me about when you basically said the exact same thing.

You said "1 to 3 years", and I said "it's a transition". And clearly, it IS a transition, hence the Ford pick. Yes, yes, Dorsey can say that "you can never have enough pass-rushers" but let's be realistic.
But to the point; we'll be competitive but last years schedule provided the best chance at grabbing it all with the aging Pro Bowl crew.
we gave up ... period.

They gave it a quick shot in the arm in the 1st year to appease the fans and now we are coasting.

If i'm Hali,DJ etc i'm asking to be traded because the Chiefs plans have no room in it for them other than a place holder until Mushmouth drafts their replacements.

[Just Passin' By]

Yes, I'm sure after the colossal failure of Pioli, Clark Hunt's prime directive was, "guys, just take your time"!:shake:

Is it that you don't get the concept of rebuilding, you don't understand percentages, you don't know what you're talking about in general, or a combination of all 3?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Lacking a halfway decent OLB behind Hali and Houston contributed to a lot of defensive pain for KC last season.

Sure, Hali might (probably) be out the door once March 2015 rolls around, but as long as he and Houston are both on the roster Dee Ford is just as much as a "win-now" need filler as much as it as a rebuild pick to replace Tamba.

True, and it's a nice window to be sure.

we gave up ... period.

They gave it a quick shot in the arm in the 1st year to appease the fans and now we are coasting.

If i'm Hali,DJ etc i'm asking to be traded because the Chiefs plans have no room in it for them other than a place holder until Mushmouth drafts their replacements.

Time marches on, friend.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Is it that you don't get the concept of rebuilding, you don't understand percentages, you don't know what you're talking about in general, or a combination of all 3?


Then perhaps you can explain to me exactly what the Chiefs are doing? I'm breathless with anticipation.

[Just Passin' By]

Then perhaps you can explain to me exactly what the Chiefs are doing? I'm breathless with anticipation.


Why would I explain when my point was that if the GM is really in rebuild mode he should be fired? Either you misunderstood my point and responded poorly, or you've been wildly inconsistent.

Smith cost a pair of 2nds. 2nd round picks are 50/50 to be starters. Smith is clearly a starter. The notion that Smith came at a high cost is prevalent around here, but it's very misleading. Unless he falls off a cliff in terms of his game, he's a good value deal.


This Chiefs team had solid players in a lot of places. Defensively, they were fine across the line (although a sub package pass rusher was a good addition), had 3 of 4 LBs and had at least 2 of 5 DBs. Offensively, they were fine at QB, RB and some OL positions, but needed work elsewhere. If the GM decided to pack it in and start over, he needs to go, unless that was a directive from the top, which I doubt, because the Bowe signing would make no sense in that scenario.

[Mr. Laz]

apparently we are doing a super slow rebuild so we can stay around .500 during the process

[RealSNR]

The Chiefs had Pro Bowlers all over the place last year. If their GM is truly in rebuilding mode, and that's why he had the offseason he did, he should be fired immediately.

It's not a full rebuild mode, but it's definitely a renovation.

Teams gut out certain sections of the roster all the time even when the guys they have are still healthy and productive. I mean, hell... the Patriots do it all the time. I don't imagine many Patriot fans minded the fact that Belichick was comfortable rolling into the season at WR with only a brokedick Amendola, a rookie 4th rounder, a rookie undrafted guy, and a white QB/DB/WR/special teams hybrid player who up to that point in his career hadn't yet cracked 400 yards receiving in a season. I mean, they probably didn't say, "We got rid of Welker and Lloyd? Bill's a genius! He's clearly making our WRs better!" They probably understood it as a team budget issue and something that would have to be worked through over the course of the season. However, the loss of those WRs was understood to benefit the team long term for life after Wes Welker.

The Chiefs had Pro Bowlers all over the place last year, but we already got rid of two of them this offseason. We're definitely looking at pruning away at least two of them next offseason as well. We're not doing that because the guys we have are better-- we're doing it for the team's longterm benefit.

[Just Passin' By]

It's not a full rebuild mode, but it's definitely a renovation.

Teams constantly do that, and it's even more to be expected when you bring in a new regime. Tams don't all decide "**** it, we're out" when they're loaded with Pro Bowlers and should be in position to take over the division in a year or two.

Teams gut out certain sections of the roster all the time even when the guys they have are still healthy and productive. I mean, hell... the Patriots do it all the time. I don't imagine many Patriot fans minded the fact that Belichick was comfortable rolling into the season at WR with only a brokedick Amendola, a rookie 4th rounder, a rookie undrafted guy, and a white QB/DB/WR/special teams hybrid player who up to that point in his career hadn't yet cracked 400 yards receiving in a season. I mean, they probably didn't say, "We got rid of Welker and Lloyd? Bill's a genius! He's clearly making our WRs better!" They probably understood it as a team budget issue and something that would have to be worked through over the course of the season. However, the loss of those WRs was understood to benefit the team long term for life after Wes Welker.

It was mostly understood for the really stupid move that it was. Even on the boards, which are stocked with homers, there was nothing approaching consensus that it was the right way to go. And that's good, because it was a really stupid decision by Belichick, and it probably cost the team a SB berth.

The Chiefs had Pro Bowlers all over the place last year, but we already got rid of two of them this offseason. We're definitely looking at pruning away at least two of them next offseason as well. We're not doing that because the guys we have are better-- we're doing it for the team's longterm benefit.

But, again, you're always making adjustments. That's not the same as going into full rebuild mode. To put it in Chiefs terms, it makes sense to bring in developmental replacements for Flowers and Hali, because they'll be at positions where more talent is helpful and needed anyway, but it doesn't make sense to leave the WR and TE positions unimproved or the OL weakened if they didn't have to. I'm not saying that's what they think they've done, because they may feel very confident in what's already on the roster, but that seems to be a pretty popular take around here.

[Mr. Laz]

call it whatever you want, but when you sacrifice winning in the current year for winning in the future, it's basically rebuilding.


That's what we did this year.

[Tombstone RJ]

The AFC is likely to be a 2 team race (Patriots/Broncos) with 3 "what if" teams (Colts/Bengals/Ravens) and 1 "it could happen" team (Steelers).

The NFC is likely to be a 2 team race (Seahawks/49ers) with 2 "what if" teams (Packers/Saints) and 3 "it could happen" teams (Panthers/Falcons/Cardinals)

After that, it's all upsets, IMO.

don't forget about the expanded playoffs...

[Tombstone RJ]

The Broncos are just one injured QB away from being a heaping pile of shit and you know it.

So are the Patriots, so are the Packers, so are the Saints, so are a lot of teams. Also, the Broncos won a playoff game with TT at QB, and this squad has a lot more talent than that one.

[Tombstone RJ]

Did you foresee the Donk's ass kicking in the SB too?

nope, but I definitely see kc not winning a playoff game.

[Just Passin' By]

don't forget about the expanded playoffs...

There will be no expanded playoffs this season.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

So are the Patriots, so are the Packers, so are the Saints, so are a lot of teams. Also, the Broncos won a playoff game with TT at QB, and this squad has a lot more talent than that one.

My point is ,,,,, if Forehead goes down the Chiefs win the division because we're a better team overall .

[Psyko Tek]

So can someone please tell me why the loss of Lewis & TJax is such a bad thing for KC?

because if a sense of loss is generated it will give us comp picks next year
o this is a turrible thing to happen, just turrible

[Dayze]

It's a process.


we outta be good once the process plays out in 5 years. it's a 5 year plan

[TEX]

IMO, Dorsey "strayed" from the long -term plan the second he traded two #2's for Smith. Then he further strayed by giving Bowe that ridiculous contract and signing FA's that would leave the Chiefs strapped for ca$h this past off season. Dorsey didn't tell us, but let his actions tell the story - There were always 2 plans.

1. Do WHATEVER to FILL the seats
2. Step back and build for the future

I would have preferred that Dorsey & Co. skip # 1 BUT understand why they did what they did.

[TEX]

It's a process.


we outta be good once the process plays out in 5 years. it's a 5 year plan

Yes. The 5th 5-YEAR- PLAN...

[TEX]

call it whatever you want, but when you sacrifice winning in the current year for winning in the future, it's basically rebuilding.


That's what we did this year.

Yep. After filling the seats last year...:shake:

[BigMeatballDave]

IMO, Dorsey "strayed" from the long -term plan the second he traded two #2's for Smith and by giving Bowe that ridiculous contract. There were always 2 plans.

1. Do WHATEVER to FILL the seats
2. Step back and build for the future

I would have preferred that Dorsey & Co. skip # 1.
It's a business. If NFL teams were run exactly like fans want them to, they'd bankrupt.

[farmerchief]

call it whatever you want, but when you sacrifice winning in the current year for winning in the future, it's basically rebuilding.


That's what we did this year. The Chiefs didnt have enough "money" or "High Draft Picks", for much "winning in the current year"

[chiefzilla1501]

call it whatever you want, but when you sacrifice winning in the current year for winning in the future, it's basically rebuilding.


That's what we did this year.

The chiefs will probably be better than last year. If they are, that's not a rebuild.

[milkman]

The chiefs will probably be better than last year. If they are, that's not a rebuild.

The only way the Chiefs will probably be better is if almost every question mark on this roster pans out.

That's nearly a pipe dream.

[chiefzilla1501]

The only way the Chiefs will probably be better is if almost every question mark on this roster pans out.

That's nearly a pipe dream.

The only case where we have a major question mark replacing a solid player from last year is Left Tackle and a less essential slot receiver. In other cases we have question marks replacing question marks. The question is how bad Fisher is going to be and is that being worse neutralized enough by other players playing better than the guy they replaced. If Fisher ends up average, we could easily be better especially if we get the good version of Alex Smith all year long.

[milkman]

The only case where we have a major question mark replacing a solid player from last year is Left Tackle and a less essential slot receiver. In other cases we have question marks replacing question marks. The question is how bad Fisher is going to be and is that being worse neutralized enough by other players playing better than the guy they replaced. If Fisher ends up average, we could easily be better especially if we get the good version of Alex Smith all year long.

And we haven't filled the holes we already had.

So we have more questions than we had at the end of the season.

To think that everyone one of the holes that we already had, and every other hole that was created after season's end is filled is pure fantasy.

[chiefzilla1501]

And we haven't filled the holes we already had.

So we have more questions than we had at the end of the season.

To think that everyone one of the holes that we already had, and every other hole that was created after season's end is filled is pure fantasy.

I never said we're even close to being a super bowl team. I think we have a long way to go and always thought we were more than a few pieces away.

I'm talking about being the same or better as last year.

[milkman]

I never said we're even close to being a super bowl team. I think we have a long way to go and always thought we were more than a few pieces away.

I'm talking about being the same or better as last year.

I know what you are talking about, and I'm telling to to put down the pipe.

[Fat Elvis]

It's a business. If NFL teams were run exactly like fans want them to, they'd bankrupt be the Browns.

FYP

[RunKC]

Why are Broncos fans pumping their chest about Tebow? Do you really think that if Manning gets hurt you have a chance?

That Tebow team plays this year and they are 3rd in the division. Maybe last.

It all starts and ends with Manning.

[Bewbies]

If we get playoff Alex Smith for the season we will be better. Our record might not show it though...

[chiefzilla1501]

I know what you are talking about, and I'm telling to to put down the pipe.

The only major question marks are how much worse will Fisher be vs. Albert and whether Rishaw Johnson is a complete disaster at Guard. We will probably lose a valuable possession option in McCluster. So right now, we're looking at a possibly big downgrade and two question marks at pretty unimportant positions.

The rest… I don't see those as question marks. And in most cases, think there's a very good probability we will get the same, better, or possibly much better at DE (Vance Lewis), FS (Abdullah), ILB (Mays = wash), secondary depth (Parker, Commings). Add in that Smith and Bowe didn't sync until the second half of the season. Add in that we could see probably very big depth upgrades from Catapano, Kelce, Ford. Add in complete wild cards like DAT and AJ Jenkins. So again… whether we are better than last year is going to depend on how much worse Fisher is, and to a very small extent if Rishaw Johnson is at least passable.

[milkman]

The only major question marks are how much worse will Fisher be vs. Albert and whether Rishaw Johnson is a complete disaster at Guard. We will probably lose a valuable possession option in McCluster. So right now, we're looking at a possibly big downgrade and two question marks at pretty unimportant positions.

The rest… I don't see those as question marks. And in most cases, think there's a very good probability we will get the same, better, or possibly much better at DE (Vance Lewis), FS (Abdullah), ILB (Mays = wash), secondary depth (Parker, Commings). Add in that Smith and Bowe didn't sync until the second half of the season. Add in that we could see probably very big depth upgrades from Catapano, Kelce, Ford. Add in complete wild cards like DAT and AJ Jenkins. So again… whether we are better than last year is going to depend on how much worse Fisher is, and to a very small extent if Rishaw Johnson is at least passable.

You are so full of shit.

We have holes or question marks at RG, LG, LT, TE, WR, DE, ILB, and FS, and we could add corner the list with the possible physical decline of Flowers, and the lack of versatilty of Smith.

There is no fucking way anyone who isn't looking at this with anything but a rainbow shooting up his ass through his eyes can say that this team is going to be better.

[Messier]

You are so full of shit.

We have holes or question marks at RG, LG, LT, TE, WR, DE, ILB, and FS, and we could add corner the list with the possible physical decline of Flowers, and the lack of versatilty of Smith.

There is no ****ing way anyone who isn't looking at this with anything but a rainbow shooting up his ass through his eyes can say that this team is going to be better.

This is all correct. I will say I believe in addition by subtraction. We had some of the worst safety play I've ever seen, and sure, the unknowns replacing the trash might not be much better, but as unlikely as you think that the Chiefs will be better, I find it just as unlikely they will be as bad or worse in the secondary.

[milkman]

This is all correct. I will say I believe in addition by subtraction. We had some of the worst safety play I've ever seen, and sure, the unknowns replacing the trash might not be much better, but as unlikely as you think that the Chiefs will be better, I find it just as unlikely they will be as bad or worse in the secondary.

Tyler Palko and Brady Quinn would like to remind you that no matter how bad you think things are, they can still get worse.

Until we see improvement, improvement is nothing more than speculation and hope.

[Messier]

Tyler Palko and Brady Quinn would like to remind you that no matter how bad you think things are, they can still get worse.

Until we see improvement, improvement is nothing more than speculation and hope.

We just witnessed the Palko version of safety play. No, I don't think it'll be worse.

[milkman]

We just witnessed the Palko version of safety play. No, I don't think it'll be worse.

I don't think it will be worse, either.

However, better than horrible doesn't necessarily equal fixed.

[Messier]

I don't think it will be worse, either.

However, better than horrible doesn't necessarily equal fixed.

I agree. It's all hope.

[chiefzilla1501]

You are so full of shit.

We have holes or question marks at RG, LG, LT, TE, WR, DE, ILB, and FS, and we could add corner the list with the possible physical decline of Flowers, and the lack of versatilty of Smith.

There is no ****ing way anyone who isn't looking at this with anything but a rainbow shooting up his ass through his eyes can say that this team is going to be better.

And guess what, we had holes at LG, TE, WR, DE, ILB, and FS last year.

We are comparing last year to this year, and yet you bring up holes we had last year too. Again, the only major downgrade question marks are at Left Tackle and less critical downgrades at RG and slot receiver. At TE, DE, ILB, and FS we are replacing bad players with players who are more than likely going to be the same or better. Only because it's not hard to upgrade over bad.

I don't know why I'm the one who has rainbows shooting out my ass when I'm one of the few who's acknowledging that we were more than a few pieces away and we still are.

[milkman]

And guess what, we had holes at LG, TE, WR, DE, ILB, and FS last year.

We are comparing last year to this year, and yet you bring up holes we had last year too. Again, the only major downgrade question marks are at Left Tackle and less critical downgrades at RG and slot receiver. At TE, DE, ILB, and FS we are replacing bad players with players who are more than likely going to be the same or better. Only because it's not hard to upgrade over bad.

I don't know why I'm the one who has rainbows shooting out my ass when I'm one of the few who's acknowledging that we were more than a few pieces away and we still are.

That's the fucking point, you dipshit.

We had all of those holes last season, and we created a couple more this offseason.

[Tombstone RJ]

My point is ,,,,, if Forehead goes down the Chiefs win the division because we're a better team overall .

:rolleyes:

[Tombstone RJ]

Why are Broncos fans pumping their chest about Tebow? Do you really think that if Manning gets hurt you have a chance?

That Tebow team plays this year and they are 3rd in the division. Maybe last.

It all starts and ends with Manning.

lol, every year kc wins the offseason. every.year. it's.all.you.got.

[SAUTO]

lol, every year kc wins the offseason. every.year. it's.all.you.got.

Where the Fuck have you been? We did nothing this off-season dumbass. Shut the Fuck up
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tombstone RJ]

AFCW Divisional rankings:

1. Broncos
2. Chargers
3. Chiefs
4. Raiders

And the raiders had a very good draft. Not so much with kc.

[milkman]

Where the **** have you been? We did nothing this off-season dumbass. Shut the **** up
Posted via Mobile Device

That's why we won the offseason./chiefzilla

[Tombstone RJ]

Where the **** have you been? We did nothing this off-season dumbass. Shut the **** up
Posted via Mobile Device

well alrighty then.

[RunKC]

lol, every year kc wins the offseason. every.year. it's.all.you.got.l

Wtf are you talking about? Denver won the offseason and like the last 2 years it won't put you over the top.

You're ****ing high if you think that the Tebow led Broncos team would beat KC or SD right now.

[BlackHelicopters]

l

Wtf are you talking about? Denver won the offseason and like the last 2 years it won't put you over the top.

You're ****ing high if you think that the Tebow led Broncos team would beat KC or SD right now.

Tebow led. LMAO

[Messier]

AFCW Divisional rankings:

1. Broncos
2. Chargers
3. Chiefs
4. Raiders

And the raiders had a very good draft. Not so much with kc.

What? What are your rankings based on? How are you judging who had a good draft? Because Pete Prisco gave the Chiefs a C +? Okay.

[TEX]

That's the ****ing point, you dipshit.

We had all of those holes last season, and we created a couple more this offseason.

Exactly. You're wasting your time explaining it to Chiefszilla. He's retarded.

[Tombstone RJ]

What? What are your rankings based on? How are you judging who had a good draft? Because Pete Prisco gave the Chiefs a C +? Okay.

I made the exact same prediction last year and I was right. I said from the beginning that SD is the second best team in the AFCW and nothing has changed. SD is better than last year, Oakland should be better than last year and KC will be worse than last year.

[TribalElder]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02523/dufnering_2523128b.jpg

Fuck the broncos

[Tombstone RJ]

You said:

Why are Broncos fans pumping their chest about Tebow? Do you really think that if Manning gets hurt you have a chance?

That Tebow team plays this year and they are 3rd in the division. Maybe last.

It all starts and ends with Manning.

You are implying that KC can win without Smiff, right? If you take Smiff out and you take Manning out, Denver is still the better team.

l

Wtf are you talking about? Denver won the offseason and like the last 2 years it won't put you over the top.

You're ****ing high if you think that the Tebow led Broncos team would beat KC or SD right now.

Denver is better than KC at almost every position including QB. Take Manning out and yes, the team will struggle. But that's true of almost every single NFL team. That is, you take their starting QB out and that team's chances of consistently winning significantly drops.

[Tombstone RJ]

Actually, if you take Smith's crutch out, Jamaal Charles, then KC is in real trouble. Charles is the team MVP.

[SAUTO]

Actually, if you take Smith's crutch out, Jamaal Charles, then KC is in real trouble. Charles is the team MVP.

You obviously aren't paying attention. We scored a ton of points in the playoff game with Charles out
Posted via Mobile Device

[htismaqe]

Actually, if you take Smith's crutch out, Jamaal Charles, then KC is in real trouble. Charles is the team MVP.

Playoff game says otherwise.

Smith's "crutch", if he has one, is the defense...

[ChiefsCountry]

.

[RunKC]

You said:



You are implying that KC can win without Smiff, right? If you take Smiff out and you take Manning out, Denver is still the better team.



Denver is better than KC at almost every position including QB. Take Manning out and yes, the team will struggle. But that's true of almost every single NFL team. That is, you take their starting QB out and that team's chances of consistently winning significantly drops.

Charles>any Denver RB.
Poe>any Denver DL
Berry>any Denver S
Chiefs LB corps>Denver's LB corps

The Broncos have a better offense aside from RB, but the Chiefs have more collective talent across the defense.

[Messier]

I made the exact same prediction last year and I was right. I said from the beginning that SD is the second best team in the AFCW and nothing has changed. SD is better than last year, Oakland should be better than last year and KC will be worse than last year.

Good for you. How is SD better? Details. How is KC worse?

[ChiefsCountry]

How is KC worse?

Our OL for one.

[Messier]

Our OL for one.

I'll buy Albert. That's it.

[Messier]

Our OL for one.

Or do you believe like most of the national media that the Chiefs have lost three starting OL?

[ChiefsCountry]

Or do you believe like most of the national media that the Chiefs have lost three starting OL?

I believe the Fisher is a major downgrade from Albert. We have no clue who the right guard will be. Stephenson is an upgrade at right tackle from Fisher though.

[Messier]

I believe the Fisher is a major downgrade from Albert. We have no clue who the right guard will be. Stephenson is an upgrade at right tackle from Fisher though.

I think it's Johnson, and has been since the end of the season. Just get the feeling Reid was ready to let Schwartz and Asamoah go.

We'll see on Fisher.

[King_Chief_Fan]

I made the exact same prediction last year and I was right. I said from the beginning that SD is the second best team in the AFCW and nothing has changed. SD is better than last year, Oakland should be better than last year and KC will be worse than last year.
Does anyone need more proof than this that Denver fans are idiots?

[RealSNR]

It's a business. If NFL teams were run exactly like fans want them to, they'd bankrupt.

That's silly. All it would have done is made us shittier than 11-5.

Teams just don't go bankrupt because they're bad. Hell, the Jaguars can't find anybody to go to their games and have been terrible for the past 3 years, but they're not even close to bankrupt.

[Dragonocho]

Peter King is a Pioli pal.

[chiefzilla1501]

That's the ****ing point, you dipshit.

We had all of those holes last season, and we created a couple more this offseason.

Congrats. You have an amazing ability to pretend to be an optimist just to become more of a pessimist, and then call out other people for optimism. Amazing.

You, not me, were the one claiming we were a Desean Jackson and Jairus Byrd away from being legit contenders. You, not me, are the one claiming Alex Smith is a QB we can build around.

Now you turn around and say we're full of holes. And that I'm the one farting sunshine.

Interesting.

And let me be clear. I think even if we've improved, we're a bubble playoff team and a complete longshot to win the Super Bowl. So save your worn out spiel that I, not you, am the one claiming this team is close to being any good.

[milkman]

Congrats. You have an amazing ability to pretend to be an optimist just to become more of a pessimist, and then call out other people for optimism. Amazing.

You, not me, were the one claiming we were a Desean Jackson and Jairus Byrd away from being legit contenders. You, not me, are the one claiming Alex Smith is a QB we can build around.

Now you turn around and say we're full of holes. And that I'm the one farting sunshine.

Interesting.

And let me be clear. I think even if we've improved, we're a bubble playoff team and a complete longshot to win the Super Bowl. So save your worn out spiel that I, not you, am the one claiming this team is close to being any good.

I assume this means that your little itty-bitty brain funally grasped what I have been saying.

Congrats, Short Bus.

[Dayze]

I'm tired of hearing about 'plans' and it's a 'process" etc.
show me the money fuckers.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Tomb is one dumb some bitch and definitely not on the list

[Tombstone RJ]

Charles>any Denver RB.
Poe>any Denver DL
Berry>any Denver S
Chiefs LB corps>Denver's LB corps

The Broncos have a better offense aside from RB, but the Chiefs have more collective talent across the defense.

I went through this crap with you last year when I told you that Denver's TEs were better than kc's TEs. You threw a fit like a baby. Don't make me humiliate you again. Other than Charles and you LBers, you got nothing.

[Tombstone RJ]

Good for you. How is SD better? Details. How is KC worse?

SD has an excellent QB for one. I'd take Rivers over Smiff any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[FloridaMan88]

So can someone please tell me why the loss of Lewis & TJax is such a bad thing for KC?

The problem is the Chiefs replaced most of the players they lost with WORSE players and they did nothing to address major areas of need (i.e. WR and free safety) they had BEFORE losing all of those free agents.

But the Chiefs are building towards 2023 so why care.

6-10, 6-10, 6-10, 6-10

[Messier]

SD has an excellent QB for one. I'd take Rivers over Smiff any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Rivers is good, better than Smith. He's also prone to mistakes, and kind of a hothead.

[RunKC]

I went through this crap with you last year when I told you that Denver's TEs were better than kc's TEs. You threw a fit like a baby. Don't make me humiliate you again. Other than Charles and you LBers, you got nothing.

That's your play? You so realize we were decimated with injuries at that position last year, right? He'll even with that, our TE scored a TD over your LB's in both games last year.

Keep on being a pussy

[RunKC]

Hey guys, the bronco fan thinks His DL are better than Poe! ROFL

[Just Passin' By]

I went through this crap with you last year when I told you that Denver's TEs were better than kc's TEs. You threw a fit like a baby. Don't make me humiliate you again. Other than Charles and you LBers, you got nothing.

That's kind of a troll take. Go rank the NTs and Ss. You'll find Poe and Berry right there among the best at those positions.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Thomas is a meh TE propped up by Manning....just like Dallas Clark and Tammy in Indy.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hey guys, the bronco fan thinks His DL are better than Poe! ROFL

That entire D is mostly garbage....even with the thugs and gimp they picked up. Von Merriman is done.

[Messier]

The problem is the Chiefs replaced most of the players they lost with WORSE players and they did nothing to address major areas of need (i.e. WR and free safety) they had BEFORE losing all of those free agents.

But the Chiefs are building towards 2023 so why care.

6-10, 6-10, 6-10, 6-10


I agree about WR. Would have liked to have seen something, anything done about that. But I disagree with the idea the FA losses are being replaced by worse players. I think Walker is better than Jackson, especially if you want QB pressure from your DL.

I know some don't like it but Dorsey is following the GB plan. Replace FA with inhouse (and yes unproven) players.

[Tombstone RJ]

That's your play? You so realize we were decimated with injuries at that position last year, right? He'll even with that, our TE scored a TD over your LB's in both games last year.

Keep on being a pussy

lol at your injuries excuse. The Broncos were decimated with injuries last year too. Von Miller was out for 6 games as well.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

What don't you get? He is D O N E

[Tombstone RJ]

That's kind of a troll take. Go rank the NTs and Ss. You'll find Poe and Berry right there among the best at those positions.

TJ Ward is a very good safety, both Ward and Berry are SS. It's a wash as to which one is a better SS. As for Poe, he's one guy.

[Tombstone RJ]

What don't you get? He is D O N E

ROFL

you'd love to believe that...

[Tombstone RJ]

That entire D is mostly garbage....even with the thugs and gimp they picked up. Von Merriman is done.

I love the offseason, it's the only time kc wins anything. Von Miller was suspended for smoking marijuana...

[Mr. Laz]

I know what you are talking about, and I'm telling to to put down the pipe.
It will be a miracle if we are as good as we were last year and this year we have a tougher schedule so it could get ugly.

we lost 5 starters and Kendrick Lewis

We added one starter and replaced Lewis with a better backup.

less talent is on this team ... period


If Dorsey/Reid can create enough talent from the trash heap to replace them then major kudoes to them.

Maybe we are back with a Shottenheimer/Peterson situation. Where Marty continues to make chicken salad out of chicken shit while Peterson goes on vacation to Scotland.

[Tombstone RJ]

Thomas is a meh TE propped up by Manning....just like Dallas Clark and Tammy in Indy.

Thomas's biggest problem is staying healthy. When he's healthy he's one of the best TEs in the NFL.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

TJ Ward is a very good safety, both Ward and Berry are SS. It's a wash as to which one is a better SS. As for Poe, he's one guy.

Dumbass ROFL

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Thomas's biggest problem is staying healthy. When he's healthy he's one of the best TEs in the NFL.

Bullshit

[Pasta Little Brioni]

ROFL

you'd love to believe that...

Drugs and injuries. ..Von Merriman

[RunKC]

TJ Ward is not as good as Berry. Holy homer batman

[Tombstone RJ]

Dumbass ROFL

wow, you really think that Berry is that much better than Ward? I recognize Berry as an excellent player but he's not THAT much better than Ward, just look at the numbers:

Berry:

Tackles 252
Sacks 5.5
Interceptions 8
Forced Fumbles 2

Ward:

Tackles 342
Sacks 3.5
Interceptions 5
Forced fumbles 5

[Tombstone RJ]

TJ Ward is not as good as Berry. Holy homer batman

Berry is NOT that much better than Ward, it's like you guys refuse to accept that it takes a team to win, not one or two good players.

[Tombstone RJ]

Bullshit

I guess we will see...

[Bowser]

Thomas's biggest problem is staying healthy. When he's healthy he's one of the best TEs in the NFL.

LOL. He's had one season with a first ballot Hall of Famer throwing him the ball. That does not equal "one of the best TEs in the NFL".

Christ, even Knowmo thinks that statement is homerific.

[Tombstone RJ]

Drugs and injuries. ..Von Merriman

weak

[Tombstone RJ]

LOL. He's had one season with a first ballot Hall of Famer throwing him the ball. That does not equal "one of the best TEs in the NFL".

Christ, even Knowmo thinks that statement is homerific.

Again, he's been injured, he's only played one full season.

[Hammock Parties]

Why are Broncos fans pumping their chest about Tebow? Do you really think that if Manning gets hurt you have a chance?


If our QB stays healthy, we don't have a chance. lol

[Bowser]

weakNot inaccurate, though.

Again, he's been injured, he's only played on full season.Being able to stay on the field is part of being "one of the best TEs (or any other position you'd choose) in the NFL". Danario Alexander is a beast when he's healthy, but he's only healthy about 30% of the time. Thomas is Denver's Danario Alexander to this point.

[Tombstone RJ]

Not inaccurate, though.

totally different in that marijuana use, while stupid, is not a performance enhancement drug.


Being able to stay on the field is part of being "one of the best TEs (or any other position you'd choose) in the NFL". Danario Alexander is a beast when he's healthy, but he's only healthy about 30% of the time. Thomas is Denver's Danario Alexander to this point.

Agreed, that's why I said his biggest problem is staying healthy.

Whatever, you guys always win the offseason. You always have the better team. I've been around the planet since 2003 and it never changes. You guys always have the best team. Until the season starts.

[RunKC]

totally different in that marijuana use, while stupid, is not a performance enhancement drug.




Agreed, that's why I said his biggest problem is staying healthy.

Whatever, you guys always win the offseason. You always have the better team. I've been around the planet since 2003 and it never changes. You guys always have the best team. Until the season starts.

JFC I haven't read any fan on here say that they are better than the Broncos right now.
What a load of bullshit

[chiefzilla1501]

I assume this means that your little itty-bitty brain funally grasped what I have been saying.

Congrats, Short Bus.

How can anyone process what you're saying? It doesn't make any sense.

You claim we're two pieces away, then claim we have all these holes.
You claim I'm being the optimist, then call me out as a homer even though I'm saying we have a long way to go to be true contenders
You call replacing terrible players like ILB, FS, DE, TE as question marks even though each of these players are being replaced by someone who at the worst has to be "terrible" to be the same and "bad" to be an upgrade.

Again... the only three positions where we have true question marks that make us worse than last year are left tackle, guard, and slot receiver. You've argued for years that guard is unimportant and that McCluster isn't any good. But now all of a sudden, because we got worse at one position and got rid of two guys who according to you are nonimportant, we're in a hole.

So again... interesting. It's interesting how good you think this team is when you want to complain about not adding free agents, and then how bad this team is when you suddenly want to complain about where we are today as a team.

[Just Passin' By]

TJ Ward is a very good safety, both Ward and Berry are SS. It's a wash as to which one is a better SS.

No, it's not. Berry is the better player.


As for Poe, he's one guy.

And he's better than anyone the Broncos have on their line, which is what the poster wrote. There's no need to play the fool about individual players when you're talking about the better overall team.


DL - DEN
LB - KC
DB - DEN

QB - DEN
WR - DEN
TE - DEN
OL - DEN
RB - KC

[Bowser]

Just to be clear, I don't think we've won dick this offseason. If anything, MAYBE we've had addition by subtraction in the guys we've lost, minus Albert. It's been a pretty meh offseason so far. But Reid and Dorsey did surprisingly well last offseason finding bit players that contributed nicely. Hopefully that trend continues this year.

Clearly Denver by blowing their wad bringing in any free agent willing to go there to give Manning one final shot at winning it all is undisputed offseason winners.

[RealSNR]

No, it's not. Berry is the better player.




And he's better than anyone the Broncos have on their line, which is what the poster wrote. There's no need to play the fool about individual players when you're talking about the better overall team.


DL - DEN
LB - KC
DB - DEN

QB - DEN
WR - DEN
TE - DEN
OL - DEN
RB - KC
Punter- KC

[milkman]

How can anyone process what you're saying? It doesn't make any sense.

You claim we're two pieces away, then claim we have all these holes.
You claim I'm being the optimist, then call me out as a homer even though I'm saying we have a long way to go to be true contenders
You call replacing terrible players like ILB, FS, DE, TE as question marks even though each of these players are being replaced by someone who at the worst has to be "terrible" to be the same and "bad" to be an upgrade.

Again... the only three positions where we have true question marks that make us worse than last year are left tackle, guard, and slot receiver. You've argued for years that guard is unimportant and that McCluster isn't any good. But now all of a sudden, because we got worse at one position and got rid of two guys who according to you are nonimportant, we're in a hole.

So again... interesting. It's interesting how good you think this team is when you want to complain about not adding free agents, and then how bad this team is when you suddenly want to complain about where we are today as a team.

First, I never claimed we are two players away.
I laid out what I would have done to improve this team in free agency, which involved two players, other than our own, and the draft.

Second, I have never dismissed the importance of guard, only dismissed the idea that you have to use the first round to find guards.

Third, clearly I think this team was better than you did before free agency, and this conference, including the Broncos, are worse than you do.

I don't think you're an optimist.
I think you're a Kool-Aid drinker.