Who here works for a car dealership?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I know there is some but I forget. I have a couple questions about trading in my car or selling it privately.

[Buzz]

If you don't know how to play the game, find someone that does and learn from them. Don't take less than KBB and don't pay more than invoice. If you don't walk out and make them call you back, you paid too much.

[Rain Man]

I think hometeam does.

[rico]

I did for a while. I felt like a slime-bucket when I worked there. I was.

Sell it privately. Most car dealerships have something called the "trade devaluation." No joke....a week of training is dedicated to perfecting the "trade devaluation." Essentially we were trained to devalue your shit and spiff up our shit...and make it believable.

Don't trade it in, dude...unless they have some sort of cash for clunkers deal going on. Learn the demographic in which your car sells and display it on a hill in which that demographic generally resides, homeslice.

[cosmo20002]

I know there is some but I forget. I have a couple questions about trading in my car or selling it privately.

Real trade-ins are usually a bad deal. If you really want to go that route, nail down the price of what you're buying THEN find out what they will give you. Like two separate transactions.

BUT FIRST--If you have a Car Max in your area, take your trade-in there first. They'll give you a price and you'll know what you can expect. If the dealer you're buying from can't meet that, just take it back to Car Max and sell it to them.

[ChiefsOne]

I own a small used car lot.

[Prison Bitch]

The problem selling it private is you get douchebags coming by and wasting time. Or they try and haggle you in front of your wife (and theirs). One time after college I sold my Honda to a kid in Juco. He came by to pick it up and I asked if he had a cashiers check which we agreed on. He said "no, bank wouldn't loan me the money, I was just going to make Paynents to you". Lol

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

Agree with the above, sell it yourself. I sold a car on cars.com myself and got KBB value for it, something I would have never have received from a dealer. I set the price right to where both myself and the buyer were getting something out of it. There was no haggling involved, he paid my lien off and gave me cash for the difference. You just have to have a little patience.

[007]

Just never EVER tell them what you can afford. figure out what your car is worth then determine what car you want and figure out what it is worth. Don't take a dime less and don't spend a dime more. Make them chase you. Believe it or not they will come down to your numbers if your are steadfast in your resolve.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I owe $10k on my current car (bought it brand new, 2010 4Runner, bad ass condition, 14,756 miles). Two years away from paying it all off. I'm looking at trading it in for a 2014 4Runner. KBB says I could get like $28-$30k for it. Curious how it would go down lol.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I saw people and dealers on autotrader.com selling theirs for as much as 32 as well with a crap load more miles on theirs. No dealer is gonna F me over. Or privately.

[Hammock Parties]

Best deals are at the end of the month.

[crazycoffey]

I did for a while. I felt like a slime-bucket when I worked there. I was.

Sell it privately. Most car dealerships have something called the "trade devaluation." No joke....a week of training is dedicated to perfecting the "trade devaluation." Essentially we were trained to devalue your shit and spiff up our shit...and make it believable.

Don't trade it in, dude...unless they have some sort of cash for clunkers deal going on. Learn the demographic in which your car sells and display it on a hill in which that demographic generally resides, homeslice.

Do you drink at a bar? alcohol is at least 50% marked up (sometimes 80%) and the staff is trained to try and upsell you on more expensive brands. How is this really different? Business' have to make their money.

If you have the time to sell on your own, do it. Most car dealers will tell you that is the best choice for yourself. But if you want haggle room on your new purchase, get your new(er) car quicker, have some sort of buyer protection you won't get from craigslist, then you use the dealer. No harm in that.

It's like remodeling your bathroom, you can save money doing it yourself, but if you want it done soon and up to code, more often than not; just pay a little extra to someone in the know to do it correctly.

[007]

Oh, for those that may want the extended warranty. Thats negotiable as well. was very surprised to learn that.

[crazycoffey]

I owe $10k on my current car (bought it brand new, 2010 4Runner, bad ass condition, 14,756 miles). Two years away from paying it all off. I'm looking at trading it in for a 2014 4Runner. KBB says I could get like $28-$30k for it. Curious how it would go down lol.

I'll give you 10k cash and pick up the note......

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

It's like remodeling your bathroom, you can save money doing it yourself, but if you want it done soon and up to code, more often than not; just pay a little extra to someone in the know to do it correctly.

I don't know about a code for selling cars, bottom line is if you don't care about how much you receive for your old car, use a dealer. If you do care, maybe you should sell it yourself.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I'll give you 10k cash and pick up the note......

What does this mean?

[eDave]

What does this mean?

$10K to you and take over payments. I think.

[crazycoffey]

I don't know about a code for selling cars, bottom line is if you don't care about how much you receive for your old car, use a dealer. If you do care, maybe you should sell it yourself.

No, bottom line; you can do many things on the cheap yourself, including g selling your car. But it may take two - six months. If you don't want to wait, go to a dealer.

[007]

I don't know about a code for selling cars, bottom line is if you don't care about how much you receive for your old car, use a dealer. If you do care, maybe you should sell it yourself.

I care but I don't care enough to want to mess with haggling with strangers. LMAO

[crazycoffey]

What does this mean?

$10K to you and take over payments. I think.

Yes.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Yes.

So it'd be a straight up trade from one car to the 2014? Sorry, it was a long week lol.

[crazycoffey]

So it'd be a straight up trade from one car to the 2014? Sorry, it was a long week lol.

No, quick sell. If your info is accurate, I'll give you 10 k cash and you sign the car, among with the remaining loan to me for me to finish paying.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

If I did sell it, I wouldn't blame any dealer for jacking up the price to sell it again lol. I literally have driven it to work and back (which is 5 minutes away), around town and one road trip down to Tucson and back from northern AZ. The buyer would be getting a steal. I like the look of the new ones and figured now would be a good time while the value is still kinda high with this one. Not sure the wife is on board though.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

No, quick sell. If your info is accurate, I'll give you 10 k cash and you sign the car, among with the remaining loan to me for me to finish paying.

Lol sure, that'd be fair.

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

No, bottom line; you can do many things on the cheap yourself, including g selling your car. But it may take two - six months. If you don't want to wait, go to a dealer.

I care but I don't care enough to want to mess with haggling with strangers. LMAO

I did it myself. Car was worth around 16K according to KBB, and that's what I got. It took a few weeks and talking to a few different people, but I got what I wanted. The buyer got what he wanted, everyone's happy. Then again I was selling a 2005 GTO with only 32,000 miles on it, so there are people out there that want that car. Damn, I miss that car. I don't miss that monthly car payment, however. I have traded in a car before, never again. I speak from experience.

But hey, if your financial situation is such that you can flush money down the toilet and it won't even affect you, go ahead and trade it in.

[007]

I did it myself. Car was worth around 16K according to KBB, and that's what I got. It took a few weeks and talking to a few different people, but I got what I wanted. The buyer got what he wanted, everyone's happy. I have traded in a car before, never again. I speak from experience.

But hey, if your financial situation is such that you can flush money down the toilet and it won't even affect you, go ahead and trade it in.

ONe important fact you may not know. I drive my cars till they drop. There is no value in them. I'm doing good just getting the minimum for them. I don't mind the trade in one bit in my situation because I am getting pretty much what they are worth anyway. Next to nothing.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

ONe important fact you may not know. I drive my cars till they drop. There is no value in them. I'm doing good just getting the minimum for them. I don't mind the trade in one bit in my situation because I am getting pretty much what they are worth anyway. Next to nothing.

This is true. Cars aren't investments.

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

ONe important fact you may not know. I drive my cars till they drop. There is no value in them. I'm doing good just getting the minimum for them. I don't mind the trade in one bit in my situation because I am getting pretty much what they are worth anyway. Next to nothing.

And if that's your situation, that may be fine. But my concern is for the people that have a car that is still worth something. With KBB values online for everyone to see, there's no reason to get bent over by the dealership on a trade-in.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

And if I end up doing this I'm not taking anything less than $29k for it, which is KBB ($29-$31k).

Dealers were selling the same vehicle with 40,000 more miles on them for as much as $33k.

[007]

And if that's your situation, that may be fine. But my concern is for the people that have a car that is still worth something. With KBB values online for everyone to see, there's no reason to get bent over by the dealership on a trade-in.

ON that, we agree.

[ChiefsCountry]

Dealers don't use KBB they use NADA.

[007]

Dealers don't use KBB they use NADA.

probably because the values are a little lower in NADA

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

probably because the values are a little lower in NADA

Does it strike anyone else funny that dealer use a book called "NADA" to determine your trade-in "value"? For anyone that didn't take Spanish I in high school, the English translation of nada is nothing.

Do you know how to tell when a vendor, car dealer or district manager is lying? When they open their mouth.

[007]

Does it strike anyone else funny that dealer use a book called "NADA" to determine your trade-in "value"? For anyone that didn't take Spanish I in high school, the English translation of nada is nothing.

Do you know how to tell when a vendor, car dealer or district manager is lying? When they open their mouth.

LMAO

[R8RFAN]

If you don't have atleast a million dollars you should be buying used

[New World Order]

If you don't have atleast a million dollars you should be buying used


Unless you have a dealer's license isn't it better to buy new? If you can get at least 15% off a new car it just seems like the better deal nowadays.

[007]

If you don't have atleast a million dollars you should be buying used

The thing I hate about buying used is eating someone elses mileage. I got lucky once and found a car with only 5000 miles on it in its first year and got a steal. Generally I get stuck with cars that have 50k miles on them and I fucking hate that.

Of course, the one time, ONE TIME, I purchased new a fucking cell phone user plowed into me and rolled it after 1 year of owning it. Now my wife is scared to death to buy new again. I loved knowing the only miles on that thing were mine (11k). Replaced it with a used car with 50k on it. fucking horrible trade off.

[Dayze]

"INvoice" pricing is a way to grab people's attention.

offer them 2-4% over dealer "COST". which is Invoice, minus any FTD Incentives, hold-back $, and the like; then add your 2-4% to that as your offer.

New cars are EASY to negotiate because the value is known. I have bought 2 of my wifes cars over email within about 15 minutes and paid significantly less than "Invoice". Even when paying invoice, the dealer still makes a nice chunk of change.

used.....then you need to look at the MARKET value for your car. KBB is great an all, but if KBB says your car is worth $10k, but every car on the market is $8k.....you virtually never going to get a dealer to come up that high without taking it off the new price.

basically, when working a trade, just offer them what you want the net price to be after the pricing negotiations. otherwise they play a stupid shell game etc. If your new car is $20k, and you want $9500 for your car, tell them you want to be a 10.k net.

otherwise you're dealing with a numbers game back and forth. also, don't be a prick. the dealer has to make money. so don't go in there thinking you're going to just kick ass and take names. let them know you know they have to make money so that's why you're offering % over COST. and you want a fair price for your car.

If they know you're not a moron, chances are they'll get the sale done because it's so easy for both you and them. They'll move on to the next person who doesn't know what they want etc. The trick with this of course is knowing exactly what you want. Model, color, trim etc. (For NEW cars)

approaching your deal this way, lets them know where/how you're coming up with your numbers/offer and takes away any sort of word games etc. It's a simple way to show them how you came up with it. Cost + 2-4%. If they won't do it, then go somewhere else. They STILL make their FTD incentive, holdback, AND your 2-4% offer. so they're still making a shitload on that new car sale.

[ChiTown]

If you don't have atleast a million dollars you should be buying used

:deevee:

You and your financial advice are complete shit

[TEX]

"INvoice" pricing is a way to grab people's attention.

offer them 2-4% over dealer "COST". which is Invoice, minus any FTD Incentives, hold-back $, and the like; then add your 2-4% to that as your offer.

New cars are EASY to negotiate because the value is known. I have bought 2 of my wifes cars over email within about 15 minutes and paid significantly less than "Invoice". Even when paying invoice, the dealer still makes a nice chunk of change.

used.....then you need to look at the MARKET value for your car. KBB is great an all, but if KBB says your car is worth $10k, but every car on the market is $8k.....you virtually never going to get a dealer to come up that high without taking it off the new price.

basically, when working a trade, just offer them what you want the net price to be after the pricing negotiations. otherwise they play a stupid shell game etc. If your new car is $20k, and you want $9500 for your car, tell them you want to be a 10.k net.

otherwise you're dealing with a numbers game back and forth. also, don't be a prick. the dealer has to make money. so don't go in there thinking you're going to just kick ass and take names. let them know you know they have to make money so that's why you're offering % over COST. and you want a fair price for your car.

If they know you're not a moron, chances are they'll get the sale done because it's so easy for both you and them. They'll move on to the next person who doesn't know what they want etc. The trick with this of course is knowing exactly what you want. Model, color, trim etc. (For NEW cars)

approaching your deal this way, lets them know where/how you're coming up with your numbers/offer and takes away any sort of word games etc. It's a simple way to show them how you came up with it. Cost + 2-4%. If they won't do it, then go somewhere else. They STILL make their FTD incentive, holdback, AND your 2-4% offer. so they're still making a shitload on that new car sale.

Very well said. This is exactly how to do it.

[notorious]

I flew the biggest car dealership owner around years ago and he told me they make more money off of used cars then new. I think financing had a lot to do with it.

He was a very nice and cool guy, so I think he was being honest.

[notorious]

I make a pretty good living and still don't buy new cars.

There is something about paying 1k for tags to the state for a fucking car that pisses me off.

I have always paid cash for a current-looking used vehicle with decent miles on it, drive it to 250k and sell it for cash to someone else.

It looks nice, taxes are cheap, and it does the same job as a $50,000 albatross.

[hometeam]

PM me. If I cant help you then no one can~

Ill even give you my phone number and we can make it easy with a short phone call.

[hometeam]

probably because the values are a little lower in NADA

Wrong.

NADA values and KBB values can vary greatly up, down, or near each other depending on the vehicle.

[hometeam]

And if I end up doing this I'm not taking anything less than $29k for it, which is KBB ($29-$31k).

Dealers were selling the same vehicle with 40,000 more miles on them for as much as $33k.

Asking 33k and getting 33k are two different things.

You need to look at the LOWEST amount they are being listed at, as that will give you a better idea those kind of vehicles will really bring in the end.

[hometeam]

I will throw this out here again, for new folks or people who dont know..

I will help you, and anyone else on this forum, with honest advice, that will help get you the best deal on your new/pre-owned car.

Take advantage of it, I offer this service on all forums and groups I am a part of, and I have been doing this for a very long time at a high level. I have no skin in the game except to help you guys.

[R8RFAN]

hometeam... Does buying a new vehicle cash have any power in negotiating nowadays?

[Dayze]

I would venture to say no. since financing it typically, I believe, done outside the dealership/manufacturer. sometimes you might find GM financing, or something of the like, but each time I've done it, they sell the loan off anyway.

[Dayze]

also think of Invoice vs Cost as:

You buy a flesh light for $50 from Rico. but Rico gets it for $25 after the manufacturer after he sells one. so even though the invoice Rico has says $50, when it's all said and done, it only costs Rico $25 to put it on the shelf next to the glory hole.

[hometeam]

hometeam... Does buying a new vehicle cash have any power in negotiating nowadays?

None whatsoever, in fact in some dealerships it may get you a worse deal. (Where I am, it wont help, but it wont hurt) When someone comes in and acts like they should get some special attention because they have cash, dealership personnel just roll there eyes and let them think that it does, because saying no to a customer is always a bad idea.

The dealership makes money on the financing, even if you don't buy any financing 'product' they still make money on the interest rate. No rate, no money.

There are times when a dealership will say.. take a loss on the front end of a car if they know they can make it up on the interest reserve, etc.

[hometeam]

I would venture to say no. since financing it typically, I believe, done outside the dealership/manufacturer. sometimes you might find GM financing, or something of the like, but each time I've done it, they sell the loan off anyway.

Not quite how it works but the sentiment is the same.

The dealership doesn't make the loan then sell it off, they actually have a buy rate, and a sell rate.

Say you come in and buy a car, and the dealership says ok your rate is going to be 2.9%. Well, the dealership got a buy rate of 1.9%. Meaning the difference in interest amount the bank will collect over the life of the loan is 1%

So hypothetically lets say in this situation that amounts to another 800 bucks over the life of the loan. The bank actually pays a % of that number to the dealership for facilitating/bringin the loan to them. Depending on the lender, this % can vary, but there is where you make money on finance reserve, as a dealership.

Before anyone goes "OMG THEY ARE MARKING MY RATE UP!11!!" Keep in mind, the 'buy rate' the dealership gets typically cannot be gotten by you as a consumer from that bank any way, what the bank is doing is rewarding the dealer for feeding them loans. In simple terms, the dealership is basically just wholesaling them loan customers, and collect on the difference between the wholesale rate, and the retail rate.

Edit; To add to this, even when you buy a new car and take 0% or 1.9% financing on it, even the manufacturer will pay out a couple hundred bucks to the dealer, so no matter what, financing makes the dealer money, cash buyers or outside lienholders do not.

[R8RFAN]

None whatsoever, in fact in some dealerships it may get you a worse deal. (Where I am, it wont help, but it wont hurt) When someone comes in and acts like they should get some special attention because they have cash, dealership personnel just roll there eyes and let them think that it does, because saying no to a customer is always a bad idea.

The dealership makes money on the financing, even if you don't buy any financing 'product' they still make money on the interest rate. No rate, no money.

There are times when a dealership will say.. take a loss on the front end of a car if they know they can make it up on the interest reserve, etc.

So exactly how much should one put down (%) to get the best deal... I can finance one for a few months to improve my credit score...

[hometeam]

So exactly how much should one put down (%) to get the best deal... I can finance one for a few months to improve my credit score...

There is no real set percentage. And it will vary from dealer to dealer. As I said before, having cash down or none is not going to make a lot of difference on what you can buy the car for on the front end. Now of course, the total amount financed will affect how much interest you pay, so the more you put down the less interest you pay.

In fact ZERO down is the best for the dealership to make money, because that creates a higher reserve in dollars.

Also a few months wont improve it much, lenders/credit agencies factor TIME on accounts as a major portion of credit score.

[R8RFAN]

There is no real set percentage. And it will vary from dealer to dealer. As I said before, having cash down or none is not going to make a lot of difference on what you can buy the car for on the front end. Now of course, the total amount financed will affect how much interest you pay, so the more you put down the less interest you pay.

In fact ZERO down is the best for the dealership to make money, because that creates a higher reserve in dollars.

Also a few months wont improve it much, lenders/credit agencies factor TIME on accounts as a major portion of credit score.

I am sitting on a 769 score right now from using 3 credit cards for the past year or so and paying them off every month so I am good there

[hometeam]

I am sitting on a 769 score right now from using 3 credit cards for the past year or so and paying them off every month so I am good there

If your a 769, you are already as prime as you can get, you are going to see the best rates banks will offer you, even if you go up to say 800. once you get over 720 you are pretty much home free.

Also, there are 3 credit bureaus. Every lender is different on what you are looking at. Im a 715 Equifax, but im a 785 Transunion, so if I buy something on credit from a lender that uses Equifax, I will have a higher rate than if I used a lender who uses Transunion scores.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

PM me. If I cant help you then no one can~

Ill even give you my phone number and we can make it easy with a short phone call.

PM sent

[R8RFAN]

If your a 769, you are already as prime as you can get, you are going to see the best rates banks will offer you, even if you go up to say 800. once you get over 720 you are pretty much home free.

Also, there are 3 credit bureaus. Every lender is different on what you are looking at. Im a 715 Equifax, but im a 785 Transunion, so if I buy something on credit from a lender that uses Equifax, I will have a higher rate than if I used a lender who uses Transunion scores.

I don't know which one is used, I get that free Fico every month in my Discover statement

[MahiMike]

I own a small used car lot.

My dream job. Can I ask how much capital it took to start that?

[hometeam]

I don't know which one is used, I get that free Fico every month in my Discover statement

Yes, same, Discover uses Transunion, which usually scores the easiest of the 3.

[lewdog]

I am sitting on a 769 score right now from using 3 credit cards for the past year or so and paying them off every month so I am good there

My credit score is higher than yours.

Eat shit R8ers!

[MahiMike]

I will throw this out here again, for new folks or people who dont know..

I will help you, and anyone else on this forum, with honest advice, that will help get you the best deal on your new/pre-owned car.

Take advantage of it, I offer this service on all forums and groups I am a part of, and I have been doing this for a very long time at a high level. I have no skin in the game except to help you guys.

I'm thinking of driving my dad's car from KC to florida and then selling it. Can I transfer it from his name to the new buyer? I don't want to take ownership and pay out of state fees.

[hometeam]

I'm thinking of driving my dad's car from KC to florida and then selling it. Can I transfer it from his name to the new buyer? I don't want to take ownership and pay out of state fees.

Get a power of attorney signed and notarized, then you pretty much are your dad for signing document purposes. Make sure you have any lien release documents as well.

[MahiMike]

I flew the biggest car dealership owner around years ago and he told me they make more money off of used cars then new. I think financing had a lot to do with it.

He was a very nice and cool guy, so I think he was being honest.

Of course they make more off used. They pay lower than wholesale and mark it up 30%. New cars have fixed prices.

[hometeam]

Of course they make more off used. They pay lower than wholesale and mark it up 30%. New cars have fixed prices.

Partially correct.

There is definitely more money in used cars, because used cars are more subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Used cars can be sold emotionally, most new cars cant, because the customer is armed with an exact copy of your invoice when you start. In fact, my dealership group (largest in Missouri, and its not close) marks all NEW cars on the website and invoice minus rebates. So, if you look at our website before you come in on a new car, you are already buying it dirt cheap, in relative terms. But, nobody is paying less than wholesale. If you want to make any real money, you have more like 3-5% markup. No one is marking anything up 30%. You think a 25 grand used Lincoln has 7500 markup? Try 750. or zero, or negative :/.

And remember, the guy who pays the MOST on the wholesale end gets the used car, so nobody is taking stuff in under wholesale prices.

[notorious]

hometeam... Does buying a new vehicle cash have any power in negotiating nowadays?

When buying from a person it holds a ton of power.

[hometeam]

When buying from a person it holds a ton of power.

I disagree with this too. Why does the person care if you have cash or a cashiers check? I buy and sell cars and bikes personally all the time. I couldn't give 2 shits if you have cash.

[notorious]

I disagree with this too. Why does the person care if you have cash or a cashiers check? I buy and sell cars and bikes personally all the time. I couldn't give 2 shits if you have cash.


Small lots or a person can report less amount received then they actually got.

Evading taxes 101.

[hometeam]

Small lots or a person can report less amount received then they actually got.

Evading taxes 101.

In Missouri that's a bad idea, since you get tax credit for whatever you sell your car for on the next vehicle. You are costing yourself 7 percentish of everything that you lie about. Sell a car for 5 grand, put down 1 grand, you cost yourself 280 bucks in tax credit.

Some states, like Texas, make you pay taxes on the 'value' of the car regardless of what you pay for it.

I never, ever, ever fudge title sale prices. Your asking for a felony charge, especially if your a lot, since you have to keep records and they can come look at them any time. Like when you fudge a title and then the car breaks down and the guy gets pissed and goes to the state on your ass.

[notorious]

In Missouri that's a bad idea, since you get tax credit for whatever you sell your car for on the next vehicle.

Some states, like Texas, make you pay taxes on the 'value' of the car regardless of what you pay for it.

I never, ever, ever fudge title sale prices. Your asking for a felony charge.

For some reason when I pull out a wad of cash it ALWAYS seems to drop the price to where I want it.

It has never failed. Kansas must be different.


I am not telling you your business since you have infinitely more experience then I do, this is just from my past experiences. I am not breaking the law, so whatever the dealer does after I leave is their business.

[hometeam]

For some reason when I pull out a wad of cash it ALWAYS seems to drop the price to where I want it.

It has never failed. Kansas must be different.


I am not telling you your business since you have infinitely more experience then I do, this is just from my past experiences. I am not breaking the law, so whatever the dealer does after I leave is their business.


I guess the ' I have the cash right here do you want it ' deal does work better with personal sellers, just because you are actually selling to THEM emotionally. So in that way yes it could work. If a guy says, ill buy your car for X and be back in 30 minutes with a cashiers check that would have the same effect on me.

[ThaVirus]

I don't think I'd ever buy a car brand new. Well, unless I was doing so well financially that money wasn't even an object.

That initial depreciation when you drive off the lot is a bunch of bullshit. I'd rather let someone else take that hit and buy something that's basically new, like a couple years old, and take it off their hands for cheaper.

[hometeam]

I don't think I'd ever buy a car brand new. Well, unless I was doing so well financially that money wasn't even an object.

That initial depreciation when you drive off the lot is a bunch of bullshit. I'd rather let someone else take that hit and buy something that's basically new, like a couple years old, and take it off their hands for cheaper.

The deprecation is only a factor if you don't keep the car for very long. There are also lots of other reasons people buy new, just depends on what there needs are. And buying new is not for everyone.

If you are going to keep the car 5,6,7 years than by the time you get rid of it the depreciation has slowed so much, and you have gotten so much out of your car that buying new makes sense in that you know the car, what its been through, you have a long warranty period etc.

I bought my first new car a few months ago.. because it was a left over 13 and 72 months at 0 percent got me a nice car with a nice payment.

Ill keep it for 3 years and sell it, I figure ill break even as long as I keep the car in good shape (which I do) since im not paying any interest.

But yes in general its best to buy a low mileage or program car if your the type that likes to trade every year or two, or even three.

[Mojo Rising]

Here are a couple of links to other pricing sites.

NADA - http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars
Edmunds - http://www.edmunds.com/appraisal/
KBB - http://www.kbb.com/

Look up the value of all 3. Post your car with the highest value and source on Carigslist. If you want to use a pay site to place your add use autotrader or cars.com.

Spend your time and put some effort into writing a good add. The guy who bought my wife's Volvo on the 3rd day it was posted on Craigslist commented that he liked my post.

I think it said something like - Volvo is known for reliability, safety and European luxury. (I will never allow her to buy another Volvo again - BTW.)

[notorious]

I guess the ' I have the cash right here do you want it ' deal does work better with personal sellers, just because you are actually selling to THEM emotionally. So in that way yes it could work. If a guy says, ill buy your car for X and be back in 30 minutes with a cashiers check that would have the same effect on me.

I look for the cars that are hard to finance, too. That cuts down on the amount of people they can sell too since most banks won't finance for an older vehicle.


Like someone said earlier, some small dealerships/people are tired of the hassle, so when they get offered something on the spot it's easier to just say "fuck it".

[hometeam]

I look for the cars that are hard to finance, too. That cuts down on the amount of people they can sell too since most banks won't finance for an older vehicle.


Like someone said earlier, some small dealerships/people are tired of the hassle, so when they get offered something on the spot it's easier to just say "**** it".

I agree with this, my thought is its the offer, not whether its cash or check. But yes, you are right to an extent.

At any dealer who does financing the normal way (not buy here pay heres) cash wont get you anything extra.

[notorious]

Hometeam, I know I talk big about paying cash for used cars, but something has been creeping into my mind lately, and I know it's based on emotion.

Is there a good financial reason to buy a new pickup/suburban? It's hard for me to get over paying a ton of money unless I have a good basis for it.

If I can mix some solid reasoning with my rationalization I might go for it in the future.

[R8RFAN]

Hometeam, I know I talk big about paying cash for used cars, but something has been creeping into my mind lately, and I know it's based on emotion.

Is there a good financial reason to buy a new pickup/suburban? It's hard for me to get over paying a ton of money unless I have a good basis for it.

If I can mix some solid reasoning with my rationalization I might go for it in the future.

I can't bring myself to do it... Financially it won't hurt me at all but I can't pull the trigger...

I was dirt poor as a kid and saw my mother and father struggle to feed us and that has stuck in my mind forever...

Guess I will spend my life being a poor man with alot of money.

[hometeam]

Hometeam, I know I talk big about paying cash for used cars, but something has been creeping into my mind lately, and I know it's based on emotion.

Is there a good financial reason to buy a new pickup/suburban? It's hard for me to get over paying a ton of money unless I have a good basis for it.

If I can mix some solid reasoning with my rationalization I might go for it in the future.

There are lots of good reasons to buy new. I don't know how many apply to you.

The problem is, few of them are financial unless its something like say.. you are looking at extremely low mileage newish pre-owned ones and you can get a new one for only a little more, or that you don't plan on trading for a very long time and want to get the most life out of a vehicle.

Most reasons to buy new have to do with not potentially ending up with someone elses problem, (which could be financial, but could also be accomplished with a program vehicle etc) wanting worry free driving with warranty, wanting the newest body style or latest and greatest gadget, or just plain not wanting any one elses grimy hands all over your baby, and less to do with finances.

[Eureka]

Find a reputable toyota dealership and they will be straight with you.

Know what you want and ask for it.

[R8RFAN]

Find a reputable toyota dealership and they will be straight with you.

Know what you want and ask for it.

I like Toyotas but they are high as hell but the resale is way up there

[notorious]

I can't bring myself to do it... Financially it won't hurt me at all but I can't pull the trigger...

I was dirt poor as a kid and saw my mother and father struggle to feed us and that has stuck in my mind forever...

Guess I will spend my life being a poor man with alot of money.

I see my friends and their wives driving a 2013 or 14 Yukons or Pickups yet they are scraping by while I drive a modest 10 year old Yukon and I am liquid. It's amazing what saving 30-50k every 5 years does for a couple just by driving normal cars.


Being poor when you are young has great advantages. You know what you need and what you want.

I am Dave Ramsey's bitch. He owns me. ;)

[R8RFAN]

I see my friends and their wives driving a 2013 or 14 Yukons or Pickups yet they are scraping by while I drive a modest 10 year old Yukon and I am liquid. It's amazing what saving 30-50k every 5 years does for a couple just by driving normal cars.


Being poor when you are young has great advantages. You know what you need and what you want.

I am Dave Ramsey's bitch. He owns me. ;)

I agree with him mostly except the whole credit card part, I don't feel using a credit card makes me spend more because I still have to pay them off in full every month, I am blessed that I have plenty of disposable income each month though.. A person on tight finances probably should stay away from credit cards completely.

[Valiant]

I got a thousand below on my truck at the dealership. I took it because it burnt/leaked oil bad and some engine problems that caused me to get 11mpg. I also did not want to deal with scum that waste your time on the private market. I looked into it, there were about a 100 of my truck there not selling. So when they just said we would give you 7500, I took it.
KBB was 8500.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I owe $10k on my current car (bought it brand new, 2010 4Runner, bad ass condition, 14,756 miles). Two years away from paying it all off. I'm looking at trading it in for a 2014 4Runner. KBB says I could get like $28-$30k for it. Curious how it would go down lol.

NADA says 28-30 as well. This is the new one I'm looking at. http://www.larrymillertoyota.com/new/Toyota/2014-Toyota-4Runner-6ac3bc660a0a00de64ea119e9211a2d1.htm

[HoneyBadger]

I just bought new instead of used. When it came down to financing my monthly payment was going to be the same on a brand new car vs a year old car with 13,000 miles. So buying new isn't always the worse option.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Not sure if I should keep the car I have, enjoy no car payment in two years. Or trade it in for what was discussed.

[ChiefsCountry]

I love me some program cars. I have bought 3 of them now.

[ChiefsCountry]

My dream job. Can I ask how much capital it took to start that?

My buddy started one three years ago. The capital you need is really how much you are going to put into it, I know in Missouri though you have to sell a certain number of cars each year don't know what it is in Florida though. He does pretty well at it, his trouble is the lot situation. I think he finally might have a permanent one that he is buying.

[MIAdragon]

I flew the biggest car dealership owner around years ago and he told me they make more money off of used cars then new. I think financing had a lot to do with it.

He was a very nice and cool guy, so I think he was being honest.

That's always true. Pay 4k for a used car sell for 8, easy math.

[hometeam]

That's always true. Pay 4k for a used car sell for 8, easy math.

I hope you aren't serious.

If we have to pay 4k for a used car, its probably something that will retail for 5995 after we spend a thousand or more dollars reconditioning it, and then we end up taking less than what we are asking.

[salame]

just sell it dod

[lewdog]

I agree with him mostly except the whole credit card part, I don't feel using a credit card makes me spend more because I still have to pay them off in full every month, I am blessed that I have plenty of disposable income each month though.. A person on tight finances probably should stay away from credit cards completely.

Who wouldn't want free money?!

We pay everything with credit cards and pay them off in full every month. We even charged to our cards the thousands we spent on re-doing our floors in our house. We have close to $500 already this year in money coming back to us from credit card rewards. It's like a discount. More people who have the ability to pay off their cards every month really should be taking advantage of this. And it doesn't make me spend more and actually helps us track our expenses as it shows up on a statement each month and I can see where our money is going.


Hometeam, quick question. So if a person who finances gets the better deal, what would be wrong with financing a car with a little money down and then just paying the whole loan off in full like 2 months later. If you aren't going to give me the best deal with me paying all cash but I have the liquid, why not just do it that way?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I went in yesterday to make a deal on a Ram. They try to **** you from 9 different angles. Now what they are doing is telling you that you're interest rate is say 5% but if you will buy the warranty package we can drop it to 2.45%. I never buy those warranties but now you almost have to. So I did ,I got bumper to bumper coverage for 5 years for an extra $3.18 / month. :banghead:

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Oh yeah, and they tried to give me $4000 for my F250 when KBB says it's worth $13,000

[Simply Red]

What are you buying bud? (didn't read all of the thread yet)

[Deberg_1990]

I went in yesterday to make a deal on a Ram. They try to **** you from 9 different angles. Now what they are doing is telling you that you're interest rate is say 5% but if you will buy the warranty package we can drop it to 2.45%. I never buy those warranties but now you almost have to. So I did ,I got bumper to bumper coverage for 5 years for an extra $3.18 / month. :banghead:

If they try to do that to me I would just go buy another car,go to a different lot.

Screw that

[hometeam]

Hometeam, quick question. So if a person who finances gets the better deal, what would be wrong with financing a car with a little money down and then just paying the whole loan off in full like 2 months later. If you aren't going to give me the best deal with me paying all cash but I have the liquid, why not just do it that way?

To be honest NOTHING is stopping you from doing this. IF your the type who is all '**** car dealers and any money they might make' then you can do this.

However, if the customer changes or pays off the loan within 90 or 120 days (depends on lender) the dealership will be 'charged back' whatever reserve they where paid. So say the dealership makes a 900 finance reserve, you go out and pay the loan off 2 months later. Dealership has to give back the 900 bucks.

Now remember, here I am your advocate. I will gladly help anyone and explain any intricacy of this business. I do NOT recommend ****ing people out of money in any way, whether its from the dealer side, or the customer doing it to the dealership. Many times those guys may have the commission portion of that reserve spent, paid bills, put food on the table etc, and you come along and cancel your loan, they get it taken OUT of the next paycheck. It would be like you getting your 600 weekly check and then the next week your check is only 400, because your boss took last weeks screw up off the top.

If you can help it, don't take food off of someones table, either finance it and wait at least 3 months to pay it off, or buy cash in the first place.

Again, what payment method you use will generally not change what you can buy the car for, except in rare cases where the dealer is grasping for straws and the customer is trying to buy the car under cost, and they feel like they can sell it under cost and make it up on the back end.

[SAUTO]

To be honest NOTHING is stopping you from doing this. IF your the type who is all '**** car dealers and any money they might make' then you can do this.

However, if the customer changes or pays off the loan within 90 or 120 days (depends on lender) the dealership will be 'charged back' whatever reserve they where paid. So say the dealership makes a 900 finance reserve, you go out and pay the loan off 2 months later. Dealership has to give back the 900 bucks.

Now remember, here I am your advocate. I will gladly help anyone and explain any intricacy of this business. I do NOT recommend ****ing people out of money in any way, whether its from the dealer side, or the customer doing it to the dealership. Many times those guys may have the commission portion of that reserve spent, paid bills, put food on the table etc, and you come along and cancel your loan, they get it taken OUT of the next paycheck. It would be like you getting your 600 weekly check and then the next week your check is only 400, because your boss took last weeks screw up off the top.

If you can help it, don't take food off of someones table, either finance it and wait at least 3 months to pay it off, or buy cash in the first place.

Again, what payment method you use will generally not change what you can buy the car for, except in rare cases where the dealer is grasping for straws and the customer is trying to buy the car under cost, and they feel like they can sell it under cost and make it up on the back end.

Remember this guys. Some of these people depend on their commission and it's spent when they get it. Try not to Fuck them.

I just bought a rig, knew exactly what the dealer allowed on the trade and he priced it to me for two thousand over that. Didn't figure there was any reason to dicker. I wanted it and it was over ten grand less than anything comparable so I just bought it
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

And I know everyone depends on their commission but I think you guys know what point I'm making
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

NOT worried about ****ing someone out of their commission when they make $300,000 a year. They don't have to eat STEAK every night.

[SAUTO]

NOT worried about ****ing someone out of their commission when they make $300,000 a year. They don't have to eat STEAK every night.

The salesman? He doesn't own the place
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

The salesman? He doesn't own the place
Posted via Mobile Device

Well, then ..... he should.

[Al Bundy]

I paid cash for my 2014 Malibu. Used 900 dollars from my GM card and my trade in.

[lewdog]

To be honest NOTHING is stopping you from doing this. IF your the type who is all '**** car dealers and any money they might make' then you can do this.

However, if the customer changes or pays off the loan within 90 or 120 days (depends on lender) the dealership will be 'charged back' whatever reserve they where paid. So say the dealership makes a 900 finance reserve, you go out and pay the loan off 2 months later. Dealership has to give back the 900 bucks.

Now remember, here I am your advocate. I will gladly help anyone and explain any intricacy of this business. I do NOT recommend ****ing people out of money in any way, whether its from the dealer side, or the customer doing it to the dealership. Many times those guys may have the commission portion of that reserve spent, paid bills, put food on the table etc, and you come along and cancel your loan, they get it taken OUT of the next paycheck. It would be like you getting your 600 weekly check and then the next week your check is only 400, because your boss took last weeks screw up off the top.

If you can help it, don't take food off of someones table, either finance it and wait at least 3 months to pay it off, or buy cash in the first place.

Again, what payment method you use will generally not change what you can buy the car for, except in rare cases where the dealer is grasping for straws and the customer is trying to buy the car under cost, and they feel like they can sell it under cost and make it up on the back end.

Thanks I had no idea how that worked. I surely wouldn't do that. Plenty of good people who sell cars amongst a handful of scums as well.

[R8RFAN]

I paid cash for my 2014 Malibu. Used 900 dollars from my GM card and my trade in.

:thumb: Damn you are pretty smart except for the team you favor

[hometeam]

NOT worried about ****ing someone out of their commission when they make $300,000 a year. They don't have to eat STEAK every night.

Wrong attitude.

There are times when I struggle to pay my bills just like anyone else. Same with finances guys, sales managers, etc.

Do you like getting fucked out of money? Oh, you don't? Then why would you do it to someone else?

Profit is not a bad word.

[hometeam]

Thanks I had no idea how that worked. I surely wouldn't do that. Plenty of good people who sell cars amongst a handful of scums as well.

This is about right.

Over the years I have worked with a LOT of people, multiple store owners, service guys, finance managers, sales managers, etc. From top to bottom they where in general good people. I have also worked with few of the guys that give our profession a bad name. Sleezy, lying, sacks of shit. Those guys are few and far between, and I can count them on one hand after now nearly 12 years doing this.

[R8RFAN]

hometeam... If I walk away and leave my number would you call me back with a better offer if I didn't like the one you gave me?

[hometeam]

hometeam... If I walk away and leave my number would you call me back with a better offer if I didn't like the one you gave me?

Me? I wouldnt let you walk without our best numbers.

There are some dealerships or salespeople that will do this though.

For me, my thought is that if I let you walk out, I will never see you again. Period. So I will not let you leave without my absolute best shot. Now say if something happens like they issue a new rebate, I might call on that.

[R8RFAN]

Me? I wouldnt let you walk without our best numbers.

There are some dealerships or salespeople that will do this though.

For me, my thought is that if I let you walk out, I will never see you again. Period. So I will not let you leave without my absolute best shot. Now say if something happens like they issue a new rebate, I might call on that.

10-4 Thanks

[Bugeater]

Heh, I am a car salesman's dream. If I'm on your lot looking at a car, it's probably because I've already scoured the internet and decided it was the closest to what I wanted and priced fairly, and unless there's some fatal flaw with it I'm going to write you a check for the asking price and try to get the hell out of the dealership as quickly as possible. I'm not going to waste hours and hours trying to beat a dollar or two out of you. I don't have the patience for that shit.

[hometeam]

Heh, I am a car salesman's dream. If I'm on your lot looking at a car, it's probably because I've already scoured the internet and decided it was the closest to what I wanted and priced fairly, and unless there's some fatal flaw with it I'm going to write you a check for the asking price and try to get the hell out of the dealership as quickly as possible. I'm not going to waste hours and hours trying to beat a dollar or two out of you. I don't have the patience for that shit.

PM ME :drool:


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/742/477/tumblr_lklvqtQNV21qbyk9io1_500_original.png

Just kidding. But seriously. Do it.

[Bugeater]

PM ME :drool:



Just kidding. But seriously. Do it.
LMAO I'm not in the market for anything right now. I just went through hell a few months ago trying to find a Toyota Solara that didn't have leather upholstery, if you had one at the time you probably would've heard from me.

[lewdog]

LMAO I'm not in the market for anything right now. I just went through hell a few months ago trying to find a Toyota Solara that didn't have leather upholstery, if you had one at the time you probably would've heard from me.

You looking to ride around Nebraska with the top down and not burn your ass off?!

[Bugeater]

You looking to ride around Nebraska with the top down and not burn your ass off?!
We weren't really looking for a convertible, but had we found a decent deal on one we would've taken it.

[LiL stumppy]

Do you drink at a bar? alcohol is at least 50% marked up (sometimes 80%) and the staff is trained to try and upsell you on more expensive brands. How is this really different? Business' have to make their money.

If you have the time to sell on your own, do it. Most car dealers will tell you that is the best choice for yourself. But if you want haggle room on your new purchase, get your new(er) car quicker, have some sort of buyer protection you won't get from craigslist, then you use the dealer. No harm in that.

It's like remodeling your bathroom, you can save money doing it yourself, but if you want it done soon and up to code, more often than not; just pay a little extra to someone in the know to do it correctly.


Alcohol is more marked up than 50 to 80 %. It's more around 200 %

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I decided to wait two years when my 2010 4Runner is paid off and I'll get a 2016 4Runner. I'll be able to put more down and the new loan will be shorter and cheaper. Besides, it's just two years. And 2016 is newer and better than 2014. :)

[Al Bundy]

hometeam- when there are recalls by the manufacturer do the dealers lose money having to replace the parts being recalled?

[hometeam]

hometeam- when there are recalls by the manufacturer do the dealers lose money having to replace the parts being recalled?

No. They make money. The manufacturer pays them to do the work.

Now, if you want to get into specifics, the manufacturer rate is usually cheaper than the public rate, meaning they make less per labor hour made. So I guess that someone could claim it was 'costing them money' but that is a half truth with no real life effect. The way I see it, all the work gets done, they aren't turning away customers because they are doing recall work.