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chiefforlife
08-05-2014, 04:15 PM
ďHugeĒ gap exists between Chiefs, Justin Houston
Posted by Mike Florio on August 5, 2014, 4:28 PM EDT
Houston AP

Linebacker Justin Houston was sufficiently upset with the lack of a new contract to skip the offseason program. But he showed up for training camp, realizing that the best way to get paid is to complete the final year of his rookie deal.

The Chiefs rewarded Houston for honoring his current obligations by offering a new contract. Houston didnít like it. Per a league source, a ďhugeĒ gap current exists between the teamís offer and Houstonís demands.

Itís unclear whether that gap will be closed before the season ends and the Chiefs have to decide whether to use the franchise tag. If they donít work out new deals with Houston and Alex Smith, theyíll have to choose between them. Maybe the Chiefs will choose neither.

The teamís ultimate position on Houston will depend on the development of rookie Dee Ford. Currently, Ford is listed as the second-string right outside linebacker, behind Tamba Hali.
Permalink 13 Comments Feed for comments Latest Stories in: Kansas City Chiefs, Rumor Mill, Top Stories

Halfcan
08-05-2014, 04:18 PM
So the Chiefs tried to lowball one of their players on a contract?

Hard to believe.

OnTheWarpath15
08-05-2014, 04:22 PM
With Tamba at the tail end of his career, Houston is by far the most important player to the organization's future. He needs to be the priority.

TribalElder
08-05-2014, 04:24 PM
You pay to win the game

YOU PAY TO WIN THE GAME


















or was that play :shrug:

Bufkin
08-05-2014, 04:24 PM
"Ohhhhhh, so THAT'S why we drafted Dee Ford!"

hometeam
08-05-2014, 04:24 PM
I will sell my Justin Houston autographed mini helmet to help make up the difference~

Big Smoke
08-05-2014, 04:25 PM
"Ohhhhhh, so THAT'S why we drafted Dee Ford!"

You shut you're whore mouth and legs!

KC Dan
08-05-2014, 04:26 PM
This is just insane. He is much needed on this team. Look at the defensive production after he went out last year....

Nightfyre
08-05-2014, 04:28 PM
(insert everbody panic stickman pic)

BossChief
08-05-2014, 04:28 PM
Dee Ford is STRICTLY a rolb. His drafting had nothing to do with Houston's deal.

-King-
08-05-2014, 04:30 PM
Of course there's a huge gap. There's no rush to get him signed. He's here the next two seasons minimum. They can keep making low offers and see if he'll take one of them.

R8RFAN
08-05-2014, 04:32 PM
Pay the man Cheaps

John Dope
08-05-2014, 04:33 PM
I'm not surprised. He has a lot to prove imo. I posted my thoughts on this a while back. See below.

I like the guy but he's not the best. (yet)

Houston has never had more than 11 sacks in a season (last year). He probably would have had more last year but he got hurt. He's also always had Tamba playing across from him. Consider where he got his sacks last year. He got 3 against Jacksonville and 4.5 against Philadelphia going against a rookies in both games. He got one sack against Oakland, one against Tennesee and one against Cleveland who have crappy RTs. He had a half a sack against Houston. His only other sack came in the playoff game against Indy. When I look at this I only see 2.5 sacks that were against good competition. Now consider that 65% of his sacks came in two games against rookies and 78% of his sacks came against crappy RTs. It's pretty easy to see that he may be a little overhyped.


Now consider that Tennesee took a RT with the 11th pick (Lewan), Cleveland took at RT with the 35th pick (Bitonio) and the Raiders signed Austin Howard to play RT this past offseason.


Houston's production came against some pretty crappy players last year. He's just not close to Tamba yet. Can he play on the right side all the time and replace Tamba? I'm not sure he can and that's still to be determined. He's always played on the left side since Georgia stood him up. I like the guy but I wouldn't over pay for him now. I would wait until the end of the season before talking about a new deal. He still has stuff to prove on and off the field. He got in trouble for weed and stuff at Georgia. I'd make sure that's out of his system before giving him a big deal. There is a reason he went in the 3rd round. I worry That he could end up like Lamar Woodley after got paid. He pretty much cashed his check and chilled out.

I don't know the guy personally but I have concerns from the outside looking in.

thabear04
08-05-2014, 04:34 PM

Permalink 13 Comments Feed for comments Latest Stories in: Kansas City Chiefs, Rumor Mill, Top Stories

I would like to read these 13 comments on what they said about his contract.

milkman
08-05-2014, 04:37 PM
I'm not surprised. He has a lot to prove imo. I posted my thoughts on this a while back. See below.

No one cares about your dumbass opinion.

Titty Meat
08-05-2014, 04:40 PM
Give him Daltons deal

chiefzilla1501
08-05-2014, 04:44 PM
So can we finally all agree that the Chiefs' decision not to spend money this offseason was the right one? We're struggling to bring Smith and Berry in, let alone Houston. And nobody here expected Charles to demand a pay raise either.

It's better to wait one year with Houston. His salary goes up if he has an improved season, but so will the salary cap and the Chiefs are going to have a TON of salary cap relief in 2 seasons once a lot of their bad contracts go off the books. Which means you can structure next year's contract to be cap friendly in year 1 and hit the year after. But agree, he's top priority... though I might put Berry ahead of him in line.

The Franchise
08-05-2014, 04:44 PM
Give him Daltons deal

You want to give Houston a 7 year, $115M deal?

John Dope
08-05-2014, 04:45 PM
We're going to sign Smith and franchise Houston. It's a done deal.

Urc Burry
08-05-2014, 04:50 PM
Doubt he would of reported to camp if the numbers were that far off. I'm sure he'll get done by mid season

mdchiefsfan
08-05-2014, 04:52 PM
Doubt he would of reported to camp if the numbers were that far off. I'm sure he'll get done by mid season

He only reported because it benefits him to show up. If he didn't, he would have been a restricted FA next offseason and would have less ability to earn as much as he'd like.

CoMoChief
08-05-2014, 04:56 PM
How much cap would we save if Daniel and Succop are cut?

RealSNR
08-05-2014, 05:05 PM
How much cap would we save if Daniel and Succop are cut?

I'd say 'bout tree fiddy

Gadzooks
08-05-2014, 05:18 PM
It seems the Chiefs are the only team in the league that is hyper focused on OLB talent.
Sure, elite OLBs are not a dime a dozen, but why sacrifice every other position on the roster to boast a top OLB pairing to the point where you detriment every other position?

The pick of Dee Ford was egregious when considering the Chiefs overall lack of depth.

I didn't poop on the Ford pick since I was still basking in the glow of the Chargers "Attaochu" pick.

You guys need to fly a banner saying "Enough with the OLBs. We need a TE, FS, 2 WRs, RCB, LCB".

I'd add QB but, IMO, Alex Smith is as good a shitty QB as Stan Humphries was. (That's pretty good BTW.)

RealSNR
08-05-2014, 05:20 PM
It seems the Chiefs are the only team in the league that is hyper focused on OLB talent.
Sure, elite OLBs are not a dime a dozen, but why sacrifice every other position on the roster to boast a top OLB pairing to the point where you detriment every other position?

The pick of Dee Ford was egregious when considering the Chiefs overall lack of depth.

I didn't poop on the Ford pick since I was still basking in the glow of the Chargers "Attaochu" pick.

You guys need to fly a banner saying "Enough with the OLBs. We need a TE, FS, 2 WRs, RCB, LCB".

I'd add QB but, IMO, Alex Smith is as good a shitty QB as Stan Humphries was. (That's pretty good BTW.)

A team has too many pass rushers until they don't have enough pass rushers. Then it's much harder to field an aggressive defense.

Just ask Green Bay whenever Clay Matthews gets a crack in his glass vagina. Ask them why they seem so desperate to find a second quality pass rusher.

Fuck, the Giants won two Super Bowls because they never stopped drafting pass rushers even when people said they didn't need any.

Mr. Laz
08-05-2014, 05:21 PM
Dee Ford doesn't play the same position as Houston, doubt he ever will.

Ford is here to replace Hali


How do they know what the contract situation for Houston is again?

OnTheWarpath15
08-05-2014, 05:22 PM
We have to have a shit-ton of pass rushers - our defensive scheme is complete ass without them.

a pp roach
08-05-2014, 05:22 PM
Huge gap.


Gaping gap.


It's a cave in there.

KC Dan
08-05-2014, 05:27 PM
A team has too many pass rushers until they don't have enough pass rushers. Then it's much harder to field an aggressive defense.

Just ask Green Bay whenever Clay Matthews gets a crack in his glass vagina. Ask them why they seem so desperate to find a second quality pass rusher.

****, the Giants won two Super Bowls because they never stopped drafting pass rushers even when people said they didn't need any.Exactly, with our secondary, we will need every darn one of them attacking the passer or covering the back

Easy 6
08-05-2014, 05:27 PM
Get Houston done now, let Alex play with a chip on his shoulder this year, it'll be a good thing.

I sure hope they dont plan on letting Hali go next year, I want to keep all 3 of those guys for as long as absolutely possible... gimme that awesome depth in a scheme where LB's are so important.

Easy 6
08-05-2014, 05:29 PM
****, the Giants won two Super Bowls because they never stopped drafting pass rushers even when people said they didn't need any.

YES.

kcxiv
08-05-2014, 05:39 PM
houston had no choice but to come to camp. We drafted Ford. So that means he sits out. Ford will just play maybe shift tamba to the other side. He's just be losing out.

If he wants the big bucks, there is no reason to really sign him. Let him play what he has. if he's worth it at the end of the year, then pay him.

Mojo Jojo
08-05-2014, 05:47 PM
Get Houston done now, let Alex play with a chip on his shoulder this year, it'll be a good thing.

I sure hope they dont plan on letting Hali go next year, I want to keep all 3 of those guys for as long as absolutely possible... gimme that awesome depth in a scheme where LB's are so important.

Hali would just be a waste of cap space next year.

KCrockaholic
08-05-2014, 05:49 PM
Once Hali is off the books, it'll help a lot towards getting some deals done.

John Dope
08-05-2014, 05:54 PM
Once Hali is off the books, it'll help a lot towards getting some deals done.

I hope we can get Bowe off the books next year. That would really help. He's the 5th highest paid receiver and I think most of his guaranteed money is gone after this year.

Easy 6
08-05-2014, 05:56 PM
Hali would just be a waste of cap space next year.

No.

He's lost quickness due to plain old age, but he stays in too good of shape year round to suddenly fall off a cliff in one year.

Hog's Gone Fishin
08-05-2014, 05:59 PM
I hope we can get Bowe off the books next year. That would really help. He's the 5th highest paid receiver and I think most of his guaranteed money is gone after this year.

Your and fucking idiot !

Mojo Jojo
08-05-2014, 06:27 PM
No.

He's lost quickness due to plain old age, but he stays in too good of shape year round to suddenly fall off a cliff in one year.

So you want a $10 million dollar backup linebacker?

Chief Roundup
08-05-2014, 06:32 PM
Yeah need to know what he is asking and what they offered to be able to have a real opinion about this.

Easy 6
08-05-2014, 06:34 PM
So you want a $10 million dollar backup linebacker?

I believe Tamba may be willing to restructure to stay here, he's that kinda guy IMO... he rightfully see's himself as an elder statesman of this defense along with DJ and has a loyal streak in him.

When was the last time he complained about playing in Kansas City?

chiefs1111
08-05-2014, 06:34 PM
Is it bigger then the Gap between Michael Strahans teeth??

mcaj22
08-05-2014, 06:35 PM
I believe Tamba may be willing to restructure to stay here, he's that kinda guy IMO... he rightfully see's himself as an elder statesman of this defense along with DJ and has a loyal streak in him.

When was the last time he complained about playing in Kansas City?

Hali is going to go chase a ring on a contender

Chief Roundup
08-05-2014, 06:39 PM
Once Hali is off the books, it'll help a lot towards getting some deals done.

It might help, but it will not cover both Smith and Houston's contract prices.

I hope we can get Bowe off the books next year. That would really help. He's the 5th highest paid receiver and I think most of his guaranteed money is gone after this year.

We have no one currently on the roster that can fill the void that would leave. We would creating dead cap money by cutting Bowe and then needing to sign his replacement. We would be losing money overall in that situation. So lets not do that. We might be able to get him to restructure though.

Easy 6
08-05-2014, 06:43 PM
We'll see, I hope not... the way he's conducted and trained himself over the years is exemplary.

John Dope
08-05-2014, 06:45 PM
We have no one currently on the roster that can fill the void that would leave. We would creating dead cap money by cutting Bowe and then needing to sign his replacement. We would be losing money overall in that situation. So lets not do that. We might be able to get him to restructure though.

No telling who we will have this time next year and you might change your mind after this season. He could really hit the wall and suck this year. He was on the decline last season.

Anyong Bluth
08-05-2014, 07:32 PM
Still not worried. They're not letting him walk, and he'll get paid.


It's called negotiating, and it's just an opening offer. Is there going to be a story about our GM and front office upset and angry when Houston's agent throws out a completely impossible max dollar, top money contract; probably in the area of making him the highest paid defensive player in the league or around there?

Getting emotional about it when you have a contract you agreed to, or worked up about an initial offer, is just ignorant and silly. Justin will be making plenty of $$$ once they get serious about a deal. This is non-news.

Gadzooks
08-05-2014, 07:45 PM
A team has too many pass rushers until they don't have enough pass rushers. Then it's much harder to field an aggressive defense.

Just ask Green Bay whenever Clay Matthews gets a crack in his glass vagina. Ask them why they seem so desperate to find a second quality pass rusher.

****, the Giants won two Super Bowls because they never stopped drafting pass rushers even when people said they didn't need any.

There's a big difference in what the Giants did compared to the Chiefs.

The Giants play a 4-3 and drafted a superior overall defensive line.
Here was their DL for the 2011 season.
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
97 Linval Joseph DT
73 Jimmy Kennedy DT
90 Jason Pierre-Paul DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
69 Justin Trattou DE
91 Justin Tuck DE
72 Osi Umenyiora DE

It's fucking genius when you consider Strahan was gone at that point.

The Chiefs D is totally dependent on their OLBs as evidenced by the collapse against the Chargers when Houston and Hali got boo boos.

To witness the pandering the Chiefs are doing for Houston should make you want to vomit as a fan yet you're all lulled into a state of bliss knowing you have players to carry the torch of DT.

It's sad...

OldSchool
08-05-2014, 08:07 PM
I'm not surprised. He has a lot to prove imo. I posted my thoughts on this a while back. See below.

Precisely my thoughts about him. He's not the dominant player that people on this board make him out to be.

Iowanian
08-05-2014, 08:19 PM
he needs to show that he can stay healthy. It would also be nice to see him show up regularly and in big games. He piled up sack numbers in relatively few games against rookie tackles like Joeckel.

If he puts in a full season of consistent play, he deserves to get paid next season. Until then, someone remind him that he's playing on the contract he has, because he was drafted where the Chiefs took him, because of his own bad choices. Shut up and play.

MMXcalibur
08-05-2014, 08:22 PM
Good.
Let's sufficiently piss off Justin Houston.

Iowanian
08-05-2014, 08:31 PM
They don't have the cap space to pay him what he wants even if they wanted to do so.

I think Bowe and or Hali are going to have to go for Houston and Smith to stay.

OldSchool
08-05-2014, 08:41 PM
They don't have the cap space to pay him what he wants even if they wanted to do so.

I think Bowe and or Hali are going to have to go for Houston and Smith to stay.

I think just Hali would do it. Either that or have him take an extension that cuts his pay & cap hit significantly.

Chief Roundup
08-05-2014, 08:52 PM
he needs to show that he can stay healthy. It would also be nice to see him show up regularly and in big games. He piled up sack numbers in relatively few games against rookie tackles like Joeckel.


I agree here, but will add that most of the better pass rushers "pile up" sacks against weaker opponents.

OldSchool
08-05-2014, 09:00 PM
I agree here, but will add that most of the better pass rushers "pile up" sacks against weaker opponents.

Yeah, but what separates the Elite pass rushers from those who are just good is the fact that they can do it against the best OTs in the business and not just scrubs and rookies in their first career games. I have yet to see Houston do anything more than just beat on scrubs and rookie OTs.

Chief Roundup
08-05-2014, 09:01 PM
I think just Hali would do it. Either that or have him take an extension that cuts his pay & cap hit significantly.

I think Hali would be the type to want to stay and take a moderate pay cut. I am not sure if that would be enough of a cap relief or not though. I also remember hearing something about a players salary could only be reduced by a certain percentage of the original salary number or something like that.
I also think Bowe would do a restructure for some bonus money.

Chief Roundup
08-05-2014, 09:13 PM
Yeah, but what separates the Elite pass rushers from those who are just good is the fact that they can do it against the best OTs in the business and not just scrubs and rookies in their first career games. I have yet to see Houston do anything more than just beat on scrubs and rookie OTs.

NOBODY had games where they piled up sacks against Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, etc. the best OT's in the game.

Iowanian
08-05-2014, 09:34 PM
If he puts up top 5 sacks this year, he deserves top 5 money.

O.city
08-05-2014, 09:36 PM
He hasn't put up elite production as of yet (some opinions around here think not) but you're paying for the future that he likely will.

RealSNR
08-05-2014, 09:40 PM
He hasn't put up elite production as of yet (some opinions around here think not) but you're paying for the future that he likely will.

Exactly.

When everybody from Jeff fucking Tuel to Peyton Manning was getting rid of the ball in less than 2 seconds on every play, what was Houston supposed to do?

The defense will improve (hopefully) and with that, Houston's sack numbers will go up.

OnTheWarpath15
08-05-2014, 09:43 PM
He hasn't put up elite production as of yet (some opinions around here think not) but you're paying for the future that he likely will.

Exactly.

That's why you pay young guys and let older guys walk.

OldSchool
08-05-2014, 09:46 PM
NOBODY had games where they piled up sacks against Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, etc. the best OT's in the game.

There aren't OTs of that level in the game today, especially not RTs. I'm talking about him being able to beat even just the average OTs in this league.

Chief Roundup
08-05-2014, 09:57 PM
There aren't OTs of that level in the game today, especially not RTs. I'm talking about him being able to beat even just the average OTs in this league.

Houston doesn't line up, by position, on the right tackle. He lines up on the left tackle.
Like I said he does still have some proving to do but to say that he hasn't beat some of the better tackles in the league is not accurate either.

tecumseh
08-05-2014, 10:03 PM
Of course there's a huge gap. There's no rush to get him signed. He's here the next two seasons minimum. They can keep making low offers and see if he'll take one of them.

This. That. And the other, MF.

OldSchool
08-05-2014, 10:06 PM
Houston doesn't line up, by position, on the right tackle. He lines up on the left tackle.
Like I said he does still have some proving to do but to say that he hasn't beat some of the better tackles in the league is not accurate either.

Dude, Houston is the LOLB, Hali is the ROLB. Hali is almost always lined up against the LT while Houston gets the much easier assignment vs the RT.

ghak99
08-05-2014, 11:03 PM
Houston doesn't line up, by position, on the right tackle. He lines up on the left tackle.

Have you been drinking?

DTLB58
08-06-2014, 02:45 AM
With Tamba at the tail end of his career, Houston is by far the most important player to the organization's future. He needs to be the priority.

Couldn't agree more. Houston and Dee Ford. Not Dee Ford and Tamba. :banghead:

DTLB58
08-06-2014, 02:53 AM
We have to have a shit-ton of pass rushers - our defensive scheme is complete ass without them.

Yep. If you watch today's T.C. Video clip on the website with Reid he even says with the 3-4 you need a lot of pass rushers and we got them.

With this scheme and as young as he is, they would be crazy to let him go and have a division rival grab him in FA. All 3 would be tripping over each Other to sign him.

DTLB58
08-06-2014, 03:01 AM
I hope we can get Bowe off the books next year. That would really help. He's the 5th highest paid receiver and I think most of his guaranteed money is gone after this year.

If that was the case, I think they would have used their 1st rd pick this year on a WR to replace Bowe but instead they used it on Ford to replace Hali/contract.

Clark said the other day they will get things done in the next 6 months when the time is right. Either they want to see how Alex is going to play another year under Reid or they just don't have the $ right now. But heck, to get Houston for $1.4 and Your Playoff QB for $7.5....Besides JC Hunts have always been patient to a fault.

DTLB58
08-06-2014, 03:03 AM
I believe Tamba may be willing to restructure to stay here, he's that kinda guy IMO... he rightfully see's himself as an elder statesman of this defense along with DJ and has a loyal streak in him.

When was the last time he complained about playing in Kansas City?

After listening to his radio interview the other day I was wondering the same thing. That would be nice.

DTLB58
08-06-2014, 03:11 AM
Yeah, but what separates the Elite pass rushers from those who are just good is the fact that they can do it against the best OTs in the business and not just scrubs and rookies in their first career games. I have yet to see Houston do anything more than just beat on scrubs and rookie OTs.

Give him time. I just read one of the HOF articles on Strahan on how he really didn't hit his stride till his 3-4 season. Not every guy gets 20 sacks his second season. (DT) :D

And it's not only his sack game. He does a lot against the run and he can fall back and defend the pass when asked better than Hali has eve just because of body size and better athleticism. He is probably the most important defense player right now because of the scheme.

Fritz88
08-06-2014, 04:51 AM
I would not be surprised if they let him walk next year.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rausch
08-06-2014, 05:14 AM
I would not be surprised if they let him walk next year.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have a bet with my friend on this. I think he will as well.

Houston is actually worth franchise tag money so we'll Tag Smith and let Houston walk...

Dave Lane
08-06-2014, 08:34 AM
With Tamba at the tail end of his career, Houston is by far the most important player to the organization's future. He needs to be the priority.

No question. I think making Alex play with the tag is the right move.

Dave Lane
08-06-2014, 08:35 AM
I have a bet with my friend on this. I think he will as well.

Houston is actually worth franchise tag money so we'll Tag Smith and let Houston walk...

FML the sad thing is I believe you.

-King-
08-06-2014, 08:37 AM
I have a bet with my friend on this. I think he will as well.

Houston is actually worth franchise tag money so we'll Tag Smith and let Houston walk...

That assumes we can't sign either one of them to a deal. That has NO chance of happening.
Posted via Mobile Device

loochy
08-06-2014, 08:41 AM
That assumes we can't sign either one of them to a deal. That has NO chance of happening.
Posted via Mobile Device

Can't or won't?

-King-
08-06-2014, 08:44 AM
Can't or won't?

Can't. Saying won't is stupid. Why wouldnt they sign at least one of them?
Posted via Mobile Device

Quesadilla Joe
08-06-2014, 09:25 AM
Next year Von, Robert Quinn, JJ Watt, Dareus and Aldon Smith will start getting their new contracts, the Chiefs would be smart to get Houston signed before they get their new mega deals that will inflate the passrusher contract #'s.

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 10:36 AM
:doh!: at some of the comments stating the chiefs will let Houston walk.

He will put up some monster stats this year and get his money. Hali will not be going anywhere either.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 10:38 AM
:doh!: at some of the comments stating the chiefs will let Houston walk.

He will put up some monster stats this year and get his money. Hali will not be going anywhere either.

Not sure how Houston will get his money then.

ThaVirus
08-06-2014, 10:42 AM
How much cap space do we have right now anyway?

$5 mil or something?

jd1020
08-06-2014, 10:44 AM
How much cap space do we have right now anyway?

$5 mil or something?

https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

$4.8M

Hali is most certainly on his last year in KC. He'll be the 2nd highest cap hit for next season at 31 years old and on the last season of his contract with guys like Justin Houston and Dee Ford on the roster.

The Franchise
08-06-2014, 10:50 AM
https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

$4.8M

Hali is most certainly on his last year in KC. He'll be the 2nd highest cap hit for next season at 31 years old and on the last season of his contract with guys like Justin Houston and Dee Ford on the roster.

There could be a decent size purge next offseason depending on how the young players excel. Hali, DeVito, Fasano, Daniel....

jd1020
08-06-2014, 10:51 AM
There could be a decent size purge next offseason depending on how the young players excel. Hali, DeVito, Fasano, Daniel....

Lets not wait for next offseason for that pos.

htismaqe
08-06-2014, 10:52 AM
Remember what Reid's MO was in Philly?

I think it's fairly safe to say there WILL be a few guys let go next year. They're just not going to give big dollars to aging players. That's not the way this front office operates.

milkman
08-06-2014, 10:55 AM
Remember what Reid's MO was in Philly?

I think it's fairly safe to say there WILL be a few guys let go next year. They're just not going to give big dollars to aging players. That's not the way this front office operates.

Letting aging players walk is the way this front office should operate.

RunKC
08-06-2014, 11:01 AM
In another thread we looked at all the players being let go and that added up to roughly $35 million and that's not with the cap increase.

That should be more thane bought to pay these guys.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 11:05 AM
I would not be surprised if they let him walk next year.
Posted via Mobile Device

Me either man. There are a lot of question marks with the guy. It's hard for a lot of people to see but there are.

Reerun_KC
08-06-2014, 11:09 AM
Me either man. There are a lot of question marks with the guy. It's hard for a lot of people to see but there are.

Many Chiefs fans fall in love with the name on the back of the jersey and not the arrowhead on the side of the helment...

We are known for hanging on players 1-2 years past usefulness....

Sully
08-06-2014, 11:10 AM
There's a big difference in what the Giants did compared to the Chiefs.



The Giants play a 4-3 and drafted a superior overall defensive line.

Here was their DL for the 2011 season.

95 Rocky Bernard DT

99 Chris Canty DT

97 Linval Joseph DT

73 Jimmy Kennedy DT

90 Jason Pierre-Paul DE

71 Dave Tollefson DE

69 Justin Trattou DE

91 Justin Tuck DE

72 Osi Umenyiora DE



It's fucking genius when you consider Strahan was gone at that point.



The Chiefs D is totally dependent on their OLBs as evidenced by the collapse against the Chargers when Houston and Hali got boo boos.



To witness the pandering the Chiefs are doing for Houston should make you want to vomit as a fan yet you're all lulled into a state of bliss knowing you have players to carry the torch of DT.



It's sad...


You type a lot of words, when it would be more succinct for you to simply type "I don't know what I'm talking about."

keg in kc
08-06-2014, 11:15 AM
We're fucking up if we don't get him done now. Barring catastophic injury he's only going to get more expensive.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 11:16 AM
How much cap would we save if Daniel and Succop are cut?

I think they are done creating cap space this year. If someone gets beat out that's one thing but cutting someone for money isn't going to happen at this point.

Rausch
08-06-2014, 11:17 AM
That assumes we can't sign either one of them to a deal. That has NO chance of happening.
Posted via Mobile Device

No, it doesn't.

Houston sure as fuck won't sign during the season and Smith has made it pretty clear he isn't wanting to hear contract talk at this point either.

After the season we'll tag+sign someone.

I just don't think we'll make the right decision...

keg in kc
08-06-2014, 11:17 AM
I think they are done creating cap space this year. If someone gets beat out that's one thing but cutting someone for money isn't going to happen at this point.It's not about making cuts. You generally restructure people to create cap space.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 11:22 AM
It's not about making cuts. You generally restructure people to create cap space.

I understand that. We are done creating cap space in 2014. That's what I am saying. When Dorsey cut Flowers that was it. There will be no more cutting or restructuring to create money. It's to late in the year for that now. It's possible someone gets an extension if that's what you are talking about but you aren't going to see Bowe and Hali take less money for Houston or Smith at this point. If that were going to happen it would have happened last spring.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 11:29 AM
Me either man. There are a lot of question marks with the guy. It's hard for a lot of people to see but there are.

"A lot of question marks with the guy"

Fuck you. Seriously.

There are a lot of question marks with a guy like Dee Ford. That's a guy with a lot of question marks.

Justin Houston doesn't have a lot of question marks. The one everybody points to is that "can he get sacks against elite OTs?"

He has an important function in this defense other than getting sacks, you know. He's not going after the QB every goddamn down. Or even on half of them.

If only Justin Houston were as solid as a guy like Brandon Siler, am I right, Bob?

John Dope
08-06-2014, 11:40 AM
I already broke it down pretty well and I'm not surprised by the hate. I am a huge Chiefs fan and have some homer in me myself. That's fine with me and I'm sorry you don't see it. Dee Ford hasn't even played yet. I have no idea where you are coming from there. Houston doesn't drop into coverage much at all. Why do people keep making him out to be Derrick Brooks? Are you a Brandon Siler fan? He was a back up. WTF are you talking about??? Sorry if I pissed you off bud. I am just more into the realistic side of debating.

milkman
08-06-2014, 11:42 AM
I already broke it down pretty well and I'm not surprised by the hate. I am a huge Chiefs fan and have some homer in me myself. That's fine with me and I'm sorry you don't see it. Dee Ford hasn't even played yet. I have no idea where you are coming from there. Houston doesn't drop into coverage much at all. Why do people keep making him out to be Derrick Brooks? Are you a Brandon Siler fan? He was terrible in coverage. WTF are you talking about??? Sorry if I pissed you off bud. I am just more into the realistic side of debating.

You're wrong.

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 11:42 AM
Many Chiefs fans fall in love with the name on the back of the jersey and not the arrowhead on the side of the helment...

We are known for hanging on players 1-2 years past usefulness....

Houston? are you serious here?

TEX
08-06-2014, 11:43 AM
No, it doesn't.

Houston sure as **** won't sign during the season and Smith has made it pretty clear he isn't wanting to hear contract talk at this point either.

After the season we'll tag+sign someone.

I just don't think we'll make the right decision...

Exactly this.

See King butted in with a "discussion" I was having with Idiot Boy JASONSAUTO back in MAY and agreed with said Idiot Boy, that they should sign one of them "NOW!" My stance was and still is that they would / should sign one, and if need be, tag the other anytime AFTER June 1 when the timing was right for the Chiefs... So, there is a history of stupidity / stubbornness/ or maybe :bong: with King on this issue.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 11:44 AM
You're wrong.

Then argue with my breakdown and put your money where your mouth is. Prove it old man.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 11:44 AM
I already broke it down pretty well and I'm not surprised by the hate. I am a huge Chiefs fan and have some homer in me myself. That's fine with me and I'm sorry you don't see it. Dee Ford hasn't even played yet. I have no idea where you are coming from there. Houston doesn't drop into coverage much at all. Why do people keep making him out to be Derrick Brooks? Are you a Brandon Siler fan? He was a back up. WTF are you talking about??? Sorry if I pissed you off bud. I am just more into the realistic side of debating.

Did you "watch the tape?"

Or were you too busy talking to your therapist about how Dexter McCluster is quicker than Jamaal Charles?

TEX
08-06-2014, 11:45 AM
I already broke it down pretty well and I'm not surprised by the hate. I am a huge Chiefs fan and have some homer in me myself. That's fine with me and I'm sorry you don't see it. Dee Ford hasn't even played yet. I have no idea where you are coming from there. Houston doesn't drop into coverage much at all. Why do people keep making him out to be Derrick Brooks? Are you a Brandon Siler fan? He was a back up. WTF are you talking about??? Sorry if I pissed you off bud. I am just more into the realistic side of debating.

You're clearly on the wrong side on this issue. It's not even worth debating.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 11:45 AM
Tamba plays in 4 more games than Houston last year and comes away with an almost identical stat sheet. Clearly better than Houston.

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 11:46 AM
I already broke it down pretty well and I'm not surprised by the hate. I am a huge Chiefs fan and have some homer in me myself. That's fine with me and I'm sorry you don't see it. Dee Ford hasn't even played yet. I have no idea where you are coming from there. Houston doesn't drop into coverage much at all. Why do people keep making him out to be Derrick Brooks? Are you a Brandon Siler fan? He was a back up. WTF are you talking about??? Sorry if I pissed you off bud. I am just more into the realistic side of debating.

hey idiot, a big reason ford has question marks is BECAUSE he hasn't played yet.

Houston drops into coverage quite a bit too, but I don't expect a dumbass like you to realize it or even look it up

L.A. Chieffan
08-06-2014, 11:49 AM
:facepalm: OMG I can't believe people have already turned against Houston

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 11:49 AM
Exactly this.

See King butted in with a "discussion" I was having with Idiot Boy JASONSAUTO back in MAY and agreed with said Idiot Boy, that they should sign one of them "NOW!" My stance was and still is that they would / should sign one, and if need be, tag the other anytime AFTER June 1 when the timing was right for the Chiefs... So, there is a history of stupidity / stubbornness/ or maybe :bong: with King on this issue.

well at least your stupid ass finally figured out how to spell my user name.

again "NOW" was meant as prior to the season, which I stated multiple times in that thread and now have told you once again today. but I fully expect you to make this post about ten more times because you are a fucking window licking dumbass.

Rausch
08-06-2014, 11:50 AM
Lets be clear - Houston WILL hit the FA market.

Given the choice between QB and OLB Dorsey WILL go QB.

Smith will get a deal and likely be locked up 3 years.

Dorsey is the type of idiot that thinks you can let a "Reggie White" walk and still compete...

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 11:51 AM
Lets be clear - Houston WILL hit the FA market.

Given the choice between QB and OLB Dorsey WILL go QB.

Smith will get a deal and likely be locked up 3 years.

Dorsey is the type of idiot that thinks you can let a "Reggie White" walk and still compete...

actually I think green bay signed reggie white...

and Dorsey was there then. kinda ironic you used him as an example

Rausch
08-06-2014, 11:53 AM
actually I think green bay signed reggie white...

They did.

Not that this has anything to do with Dorsey's moves as a GM...

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 11:53 AM
https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

$4.8M

Hali is most certainly on his last year in KC. He'll be the 2nd highest cap hit for next season at 31 years old and on the last season of his contract with guys like Justin Houston and Dee Ford on the roster.

Not sure if you are aware of it or not-but teams can actually "restructure" a players contract-if said player is ageing but still highly productive. Hali is the heart of this defense-has been most of his career.

DJ is getting older-so I guess we cut him as well. :doh!:

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 11:54 AM
They did.

Not that this has anything to do with Dorsey's moves as a GM...

I know.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 11:55 AM
Not sure if you are aware of it or not-but teams can actually "restructure" a players contract-if said player is ageing but still highly productive. Hali is the heart of this defense-has been most of his career.

DJ is getting older-so I guess we cut him as well. :doh!:

Not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Houston is already on par if not better than Hali and the team just drafted Hali's replacement.

Who replaces DJ?

Rausch
08-06-2014, 11:55 AM
Not sure if you are aware of it or not-but teams can actually "restructure" a players contract-if said player is ageing but still highly productive. Hali is the heart of this defense-has been most of his career.

DJ is getting older-so I guess we cut him as well. :doh!:

Quiet.

Even the most casual fan knows Dorsey is axe-ing Hali next year...

jd1020
08-06-2014, 11:59 AM
Players with a higher 2015 cap hit than DJ:

Mike DeVito
Sean Smith
Eric Fisher

Lets cut DJ!!!!!

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 12:05 PM
In addition to the Alex Smith and Justin Houston mess, the following players who figure to be starters/in the mix as starters will need new deals if we want to keep them beyond this 2014 season:

Rodney Hudson
Allen Bailey
Anthony Sherman
Ron Parker

And the following players might be nice to keep around as depth if they come cheap:

Junior Hemingway
Chris Owens
Rishaw Johnson
Thomas Gafford

You've also got to worry about extending Berry and Poe when their deals come up in 2016, though it's certainly not imperative to get them done right now.

That's what we're up against. And I would hope to hell that Dorsey makes some smart decisions regarding what he can and can't do.

Justin Houston is a contract we absolutely can do. And we should do. If Dorsey starts looking at all this other shit we got flying in our faces right now, he may balk and make a really fucking dumb decision. And that would be death.

The Franchise
08-06-2014, 12:08 PM
In addition to the Alex Smith and Justin Houston mess, the following players who figure to be starters/in the mix as starters will need new deals if we want to keep them beyond this 2014 season:

Rodney Hudson
Allen Bailey
Anthony Sherman
Ron Parker

And the following players might be nice to keep around as depth if they come cheap:

Junior Hemingway
Chris Owens
Rishaw Johnson
Thomas Gafford

You've also got to worry about extending Berry and Poe when their deals come up in 2016, though it's certainly not imperative to get them done right now.

That's what we're up against. And I would hope to hell that Dorsey makes some smart decisions regarding what he can and can't do.

Justin Houston is a contract we absolutely can do. And we should do. If Dorsey starts looking at all this other shit we got flying in our faces right now, he may balk and make a really fucking dumb decision. And that would be death.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Hudson hit FA....especially if they think Kush can step right in.

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 12:08 PM
Quiet.

Even the most casual fan knows Dorsey is axe-ing Hali next year...

I guess we will see. So if Hali stays healthy and puts up another 11 plus sacks this year- chiefs just let him walk? Doubtful.

The Franchise
08-06-2014, 12:09 PM
I guess we will see. So if Hali stays healthy and puts up another 11 plus sacks this year- chiefs just let him walk? Doubtful.

You do realize that restructuring a deal fucks the cap for us in the future....right?

jd1020
08-06-2014, 12:10 PM
I guess we will see. So if Hali stays healthy and puts up another 11 plus sacks this year- chiefs just let him walk? Doubtful.

To give that money to the better, younger player to keep him from walking? Abso****inglutely

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:10 PM
OMG let's PLEAZE sign the mediocre QB and let the special LB walk!/dumbass

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 12:12 PM
I guess we will see. So if Hali stays healthy and puts up another 11 plus sacks this year- chiefs just let him walk? Doubtful.

That's how this method works. Dee Ford replaces Hali, just like Fisher replaced Albert.

Packer fans at first hated Ted Thompson when he let all his good-yet-aging and expensive players walk. We're about to go through the same thing.

htismaqe
08-06-2014, 12:13 PM
That's how this method works. Dee Ford replaces Hali, just like Fisher replaced Albert.

Packer fans hated Ted Thompson when he let all his good-yet-aging and expensive players walk. We're about to go through the same thing.

Reid did the same thing in Philly.

This is the way it's going to be.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:14 PM
Reid did the same thing in Philly.

This is the way it's going to be.

I have no problem with getting market value+ for the aged, but sweet God giving Smith the house is a problem.

Mr. Laz
08-06-2014, 12:15 PM
Maybe Sutton won't blitz at all this season and Houston won't have any sacks.

Then we can sign him for 10 bucks and a bag of Cheetos next year.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:15 PM
That's how this method works. Dee Ford replaces Hali, just like Fisher replaced Albert.

Packer fans at first hated Ted Thompson when he let all his good-yet-aging and expensive players walk. We're about to go through the same thing.

Fans who love their "retired a Chief"-jones are going to hate this regime.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:15 PM
Maybe Sutton won't blitz at all this season and Houston won't have any sacks.

Then we can sign him for 10 bucks and a bag of Cheetos next year.

LMAO

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 12:18 PM
To give that money to the better, younger player to keep him from walking? Abso****inglutely

Same thing all you arm chair GM's said about Jared Allen.

Glad you guys are more worried about the fucking Cap then putting good players on the field. We havn't won a playoff game in decades but at least we are under the Cap. :cuss:

We let Houston walk and cut Hali- brilliant!! Oh but we have Ford who has not played a down and we can draft someone or bring in a scrub-same difference right? And easy on the Cap. :doh!:

Smart money is keeping both in Red.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 12:19 PM
Same thing all you arm chair GM's said about Jared Allen.

Glad you guys are more worried about the ****ing Cap then putting good players on the field. We havn't won a playoff game in decades but at least we are under the Cap. :cuss:

We let Houston walk and cut Hali- brilliant!! Oh but we have Ford who has not played a down and we can draft someone or bring in a scrub-same difference right? And easy on the Cap. :doh!:

Smart money is keeping both in Red.

You're retarded arent you?

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:21 PM
You're retarded arent you?

I will admit that the Chiefs can make even the most sane person go full-retard...

:(

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 12:23 PM
That's how this method works. Dee Ford replaces Hali, just like Fisher replaced Albert.

Packer fans at first hated Ted Thompson when he let all his good-yet-aging and expensive players walk. We're about to go through the same thing.

Ford has not even played a down yet-lol We have no idea he will be as great as Hali has been his entire career. I hope Ford can be the HEART of the D someday- but I think he needs to play a few games before we assume Hali is hitting the bricks.

htismaqe
08-06-2014, 12:25 PM
Ford has not even played a down yet-lol We have no idea he will be as great as Hali has been his entire career. I hope Ford can be the HEART of the D someday- but I think he needs to play a few games before we assume Hali is hitting the bricks.

Eric Fisher hadn't played a down in the NFL when they drafted him 1st overall and set their plan to get rid of Branden Albert in motion.

People aren't suggesting they WANT to see Hali cut. They're telling you what Dorsey and Reid are planning to do.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 12:25 PM
Ford has not even played a down yet-lol We have no idea he will be as great as Hali has been his entire career. I hope Ford can be the HEART of the D someday- but I think he needs to play a few games before we assume Hali is hitting the bricks.

Hali is going to be 31 with a whopping 3 seasons with 10+ sacks.

Rausch
08-06-2014, 12:25 PM
Packer fans at first hated Ted Thompson when he let all his good-yet-aging and expensive players walk. We're about to go through the same thing.

And THIS is the guy we should be thinking of with Dorsey.

Only Dorsey takes huge risks on players with a history of injury...

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 12:26 PM
You're retarded arent you?

That is not MY opinion dipshit- but many on the Planet. I clearly stated we keep BOTH in red.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:26 PM
Sounds like Ha Ha isn't working out quite as well as Thompson had hoped.

ha-ha.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 12:27 PM
That is not MY opinion dipshit- but many on the Planet. I clearly stated we keep BOTH in red.

No one has the opinion of letting Houston walk AND cutting Hali you stupid mother****er.

You cut Hali to give his money to Houston and replace Hali with Dee Ford, Einstein.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:28 PM
I bet Hail will restructure.

Rausch
08-06-2014, 12:28 PM
I bet Hail will restructure.

You're fucking retarded...

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 12:30 PM
Hali is going to be 31 with a whopping 3 seasons with 10+ sacks.

dumb post :doh!:

yep he sucks-we should cut his old worthless ass right now!!!

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 12:30 PM
You're ****ing retarded...

I'M JUST AS GOD MADE ME, SIR:

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsB/1318-19426.jpg

jd1020
08-06-2014, 12:31 PM
dumb post :doh!:

yep he sucks-we should cut his old worthless ass right now!!!

Never said he sucks.

He's better than average, but he's not some great thats going to walk into the ****ing HoF like you are painting him as.

Houston already has 2 10+ sack seasons, while defending 14 passes vs Hali's 12.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 12:32 PM
Ford has not even played a down yet-lol We have no idea he will be as great as Hali has been his entire career. I hope Ford can be the HEART of the D someday- but I think he needs to play a few games before we assume Hali is hitting the bricks.

That's what Packer fans said.

"You can't get rid of Ahman Green! We won a Super Bowl with Robert Ferguson! How the fuck is Donald Driver going to replace Antonio Freeman?!"

The good part is your draft picks tend to be placed in environments where they can thrive and do better for you. The bad part is when you let the wrong players go. The Packers had a serious problem when they rebuilt their defensive line after their Super Bowl win and have yet to bring it back to a suitable level.

You also can't afford very many fuckups. The Packers recently haven't been doing a good job at drafting guys with vaginas made out of stuff stronger than tissue paper.

htismaqe
08-06-2014, 12:35 PM
The Packers recently haven't been doing a good job at drafting guys with vaginas made out of stuff stronger than tissue paper.

Dorsey brought that tendency with him, it appears.

Rausch
08-06-2014, 12:40 PM
dumb post :doh!:

yep he sucks-we should cut his old worthless ass right now!!!

If we did it would COST us money...

Halfcan
08-06-2014, 12:40 PM
No one has the opinion of letting Houston walk AND cutting Hali you stupid mother****er.

You cut Hali to give his money to Houston and replace Hali with Dee Ford, Einstein.

Once again- Ford has not even played a down yet dumbass. Stop acting like this plan is set in stone. Hali has been great for the Chiefs-so you have no idea if he will be cut or not-just speculation based on his cap number. So just shut the fuck up and stop acting like you have some inside source. Your opinion is no better than anyone else.

IF we do cut Hali-which would be a huge mistake imo- he will immediately be signed by another team. He has a lot of good years left and is in top shape. There is more to football than just a cap number-it takes heart- and there is no bigger one on the team than Hali.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 12:44 PM
IF we do cut Hali-which would be a huge mistake imo- he will immediately be signed by another team.

Are you going to cry when your favorite player is playing for a different team in 2015?

http://www.louiseoneillauthor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/crying-baby.jpg

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2014, 12:44 PM
I'M JUST AS GOD MADE ME, SIR:

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsB/1318-19426.jpg

rep for the Spinal Tap reference!

htismaqe
08-06-2014, 12:45 PM
Stop acting like this plan is set in stone.

It's already in motion.

Branden Albert was as good as gone the second they drafted Fisher. Not even a horrible rookie season at RT derailed the plan.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what they're up to.

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 12:46 PM
It's already in motion.

Branden Albert was as good as gone the second they drafted Fisher. Not even a horrible rookie season at RT derailed the plan.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what they're up to.

reading the posts from these guys is making my head hurt.

Dayze
08-06-2014, 01:02 PM
I hope we can get Bowe off the books next year. That would really help. He's the 5th highest paid receiver and I think most of his guaranteed money is gone after this year.

wut..........



JFC

John Dope
08-06-2014, 01:48 PM
hey idiot, a big reason ford has question marks is BECAUSE he hasn't played yet.

Houston drops into coverage quite a bit too, but I don't expect a dumbass like you to realize it or even look it up

No shit. We agree about Ford. Houston doesn't drop much. You look it up.

Mr. Laz
08-06-2014, 01:52 PM
No shit. We agree about Ford. Houston doesn't drop much. You look it up.

What do you mean doesn't drop?

Houston is a LB, he's already 'dropped'

Unless Houston blitzes he is in coverage of some kind

We didn't blitz Houston all the time.

Hali is the guy who didn't drop much.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 01:53 PM
For the record I posted my Houston breakdown and theory about two weeks ago. No one gave me any shit back then. In fact I got rep for it. Yesterday I reposted it an said I saw this coming. Now everyone is killing me for it. What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Do you want to have good discussion or not? I really did not expect the homer mentality here. I thought this place was different.

I have a Justin Houston jersey. I wear my Justin Houston jersey. I like Justin Houston but I understand where the organization is coming from. Go ahead and overhype all you want. I will not do that.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 01:58 PM
What do you mean doesn't drop?

Houston is a LB, he's already 'dropped'

Unless Houston blitzes he is in coverage of some kind

We didn't blitz Houston all the time.

Hali is the guy who didn't drop much.

I mean Houston isn't dropping into coverage much. He's got 13 pass break ups in his career. He's not Derrick Brooks. 3-4 OLBs don't drop into coverage much anymore period. The nickel package is practically the new base defense.

Mr. Laz
08-06-2014, 02:06 PM
I mean Houston isn't dropping into coverage much. 3-4 OLBs don't drop into coverage much anymore period. The nickel package is practically the new base defense.
I don't think you understand my point.

Houston doesn't come off the field on passing downs. If he doesn't blitz then he is in coverage. It might be covering the RBs in shallow coverage but he is still in coverage.

If Houston doesn't blitz, he is in coverage on passing downs.


So yes, Houston is in coverage quite a bit.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:08 PM
I don't think you understand my point.

Houston doesn't come off the field on passing downs. If he doesn't blitz then he is in coverage. It might be covering the RBs in shallow coverage but he is still in coverage.

If Houston doesn't blitz, he is in coverage on passing downs.


So yes, Houston is in coverage quite a bit.

No I'd say he's blitzing 90% or more of the time.

L.A. Chieffan
08-06-2014, 02:08 PM
For the record I posted my Houston breakdown and theory about two weeks ago. No one gave me any shit back then. In fact I got rep for it. Yesterday I reposted it an said I saw this coming. Now everyone is killing me for it. What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Do you want to have good discussion or not? I really did not expect the homer mentality here. I thought this place was different.

I have a Justin Houston jersey. I wear my Justin Houston jersey. I like Justin Houston but I understand where the organization is coming from. Go ahead and overhype all you want. I will not do that.

I don't think you understand what homer mentality means

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:11 PM
Don't worry guys - if he doesn't get a contract before the season starts someone will write an article with all the stats you want soon. In other words someone will write that article soon.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:12 PM
No I'd say he's blitzing 90% or more of the time.

You would say.

But you'd be wrong.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:12 PM
I don't think you understand what homer mentality means

Part of it means overrating your team's players.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:13 PM
You would say.

But you'd be wrong.

Tell it Dorsey bud. Don't shoot the messenger.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:15 PM
Tell it Dorsey bud. Don't shoot the messenger.

You're a messenger of bogus statistics.

Houston does NOT blitz 90% of the time you fucking doofus.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:18 PM
You're a messenger of bogus statistics.

Houston does NOT blitz 90% of the time you ****ing doofus.

Let's be ****ing real for a minute. Will Justin Houston get paid for his God Damnned coverage skills? How many outside linebackers in any kind of defense get paid for their coverage skills?

He will be getting paid for his pass rushing skills and his ability to stop the run. It will not be for his coverage skills.

The competition he faced rushing the passer and the success he had against them are the most relevant factors in determining his value. Not his ****ing coverage skills.

He blitzed 90% of the time imo and if we weren't blitzing him we were ****ing stupid.

The Franchise
08-06-2014, 02:20 PM
Let's be fucking real for a minute. Will Justin Houston get paid for his God Damnned coverage skills? How many outside linebackers in any kind of defense get paid for their coverage skills?

He will be getting paid for his pass rushing skills and his ability to stop the run. It will not be for his coverage skills. The competition he faced and the success he had against them are the most relevant factors in determining his value.

So you're back tracking because you're wrong......got it.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:23 PM
Let's be ****ing real for a minute. Will Justin Houston get paid for his God Damnned coverage skills? How many outside linebackers in any kind of defense get paid for their coverage skills?

He will be getting paid for his pass rushing skills and his ability to stop the run. It will not be for his coverage skills.

The competition he faced rushing the passer and the success he had against them are the most relevant factors in determining his value. Not his ****ing coverage skills.

He blitzed 90% of the time imo and if we weren't blitzing him we were ****ing stupid.

Tell it to Dorsey, bud. Don't shoot the messenger.

Houston doesn't blitz 90% of the time.

Jesus fuck, not even Hali blitzes 90% of the time.

You're full of shit.

-King-
08-06-2014, 02:23 PM
Exactly this.

See King butted in with a "discussion" I was having with Idiot Boy JASONSAUTO back in MAY and agreed with said Idiot Boy, that they should sign one of them "NOW!" My stance was and still is that they would / should sign one, and if need be, tag the other anytime AFTER June 1 when the timing was right for the Chiefs... So, there is a history of stupidity / stubbornness/ or maybe :bong: with King on this issue.

You have problems.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:24 PM
So you're back tracking because you're wrong......got it.

The point is coverage skills are irrelevant. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of my coverage evaluation because it doesn 't mean jack shit in the determination of Justin Houston's next contract.

it means nothing

The Franchise
08-06-2014, 02:25 PM
The point is coverage skills are irrelevant. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of my coverage evaluation because it doesn 't mean jack shit in the determination of Justin Houston's next contract.

it means nothing

The point is that you got caught with your bullshit and now you're changing the subject.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:26 PM
Tell it to Dorsey, bud. Don't shoot the messenger.

Houston doesn't blitz 90% of the time.

Jesus ****, not even Hali blitzes 90% of the time.

You're full of shit.

I am sure everyone in the entire organization is fretting right now about how we could possibly defend the pass against any opponent without Justin Houston. We should immediately give him the same money Dalton got and get this done!!!!! He is the goddamned cover corner of linebackers!

John Dope
08-06-2014, 02:29 PM
You're a messenger of bogus statistics.

Houston does NOT blitz 90% of the time you ****ing doofus.

Homey, He does on passing downs. Again - somebody will write a nice little article about why Houston and the Chiefs are so far apart and cover all of this very soon. He ain't getting paid until after the season earliest. - and for good reason.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:34 PM
I am sure everyone in the entire organization is fretting right now about how we could possibly defend the pass against any opponent without Justin Houston. We should immediately give him the same money Dalton got and get this done!!!!! He is the goddamned cover corner of linebackers!

Keep acting like a fucking retard.

There's a reason why there are concerns about Dee Ford, and it doesn't pertain to his pass rush skills. You have to do a lot of different things when you're an OLB, especially on the strong side. Sometimes guys who are used to playing the 4-3 don't make the transition because they've never done those other things from a stand up position and struggle with the complexity and new skills they have to perform.

Houston's still perfecting his pass rush. It's already very good, and it will continue to get better. Meanwhile, his coverage is some of the best among OLBs. They ALL have to do that shit, and it's great that we have Houston there.

Right now YOU'RE the one behaving like a childish dipshit and going after me for just pointing out to you that Houston blitzes less than half the time. If you have a problem with that, talk to Sutton and Reid about it.

Actually, talk to the majority of coaches. I'm pretty sure they'd all use Houston the exact same way. We could have Dick fucking LeBeau as our defensive coordinator and he'd probably use Houston in close to the same way we're using him now.

OldSchool
08-06-2014, 02:36 PM
I'll wait to see how Houston does against solid competition. As of now, he doesn't deserve the same money as a Matthews, Ware (in his prime), etc. I'll bet he's looking for something like $70 mil to become the highest paid OLB in the NFL, $4 mil more than what Matthews was given. He's definitely not worth that much.

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 02:38 PM
It's already in motion.

Branden Albert was as good as gone the second they drafted Fisher. Not even a horrible rookie season at RT derailed the plan.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what they're up to.

And they weren't going to pay Bowe right?

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:38 PM
I'll wait to see how Houston does against solid competition. As of now, he doesn't deserve the same money as a Matthews, Ware (in his prime), etc. I'll bet he's looking for something like $70 mil to become the highest paid OLB in the NFL, $4 mil more than what Matthews was given. He's definitely not worth that much.

Overpay by $4 million for Houston, or overpay by $7-10 million for Smith?

Hmm... decisions, decisions...

ThaVirus
08-06-2014, 02:50 PM
This man just said "Houston doesn't blitz more than 90% of the time imo".

The amount that Houston blitzes is a fucking fact. There's no "IMO" about it. You guys should look the shit up and stop with the fuckery.

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Overpay by $4 million for Houston, or overpay by $7-10 million for Smith?

Hmm... decisions, decisions...


I thought QB was hands down the most important player on the field? You are saying $7-10MM more over the life of a contract would be a deal breaker?

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:51 PM
This man just said "Houston doesn't blitz more than 90% of the time imo".

The amount that Houston blitzes is a fucking fact. There's no "IMO" about it. You guys should look the shit up and stop with the fuckery.

It's Black Bob. I'm not looking up shit for him.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 02:52 PM
I thought QB was hands down the most important player on the field? You are saying $7-10MM more over the life of a contract would be a deal breaker?

Assuming Smith plays to 40 years old at his current elite level, why not?!

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 02:54 PM
I thought QB was hands down the most important player on the field? You are saying $7-10MM more over the life of a contract would be a deal breaker?

Ask OldSchool what he means by "overpay by $4 million". I assume he means per year, because 4 million over the life of a contract is chump change.

I meant 7-10 million per year for Alex. In my judgement, he deserves right now, based on what we know about him as a QB, to be paid at around 10 million per year or so.

He reportedly (I have no clue if this is true or not) turned down a $17 million per year offer.

If that's the case, then $7-10 million is what I'm sticking with.

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 02:58 PM
Ask OldSchool what he means by "overpay by $4 million". I assume he means per year, because 4 million over the life of a contract is chump change.

I meant 7-10 million per year for Alex. In my judgement, he deserves right now, based on what we know about him as a QB, to be paid at around 10 million per year or so.

He reportedly (I have no clue if this is true or not) turned down a $17 million per year offer.

If that's the case, then $7-10 million is what I'm sticking with.

Smith deserves $10MM per year? That ain't happening and is a pipe dream. I have said all along $15MM avg for 5 years.

I took it as $4MM more on the Houston contract (guaranteed). He isn't getting $4MM per year more than Clay Mathews that's crazy talk.

Edit: - He said $70MM which is $4MM more than Mathews total.

According to a source, the five-year deal pays Matthews $66 million in new money, making him the highest-paid linebacker in the NFL. It is a five-year extension beyond 2013, which means he will be under contract through 2018.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 02:59 PM
He reportedly (I have no clue if this is true or not) turned down a $17 million per year offer.

Smart man.

Oakland is waiting in the wings with $20M+.

Keep "lowballin" dat ass KC!!!

milkman
08-06-2014, 03:03 PM
This man just said "Houston doesn't blitz more than 90% of the time imo".

The amount that Houston blitzes is a ****ing fact. There's no "IMO" about it. You guys should look the shit up and stop with the ****ery.

The numbers for Houston in rush vs. coverage were posted here a month or 2 ago.

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Smart man.

Oakland is waiting in the wings with $20M+.

Keep "lowballin" dat ass KC!!!

Smith or Houston? I have no fear of an Oakland-Smith love connection.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Smith or Houston? I have no fear of an Oakland-Smith love connection.

Why would you fear Smith in Oakland?

Who would?

Sweet Daddy Hate
08-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Why would you fear Smith in Oakland?

Who would?

Some people would. Apparently, he's the cat's fucking meow.

ChiefJayhawk9
08-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Houston will get his $$, but it will have to be OLB $.

12M/yr max.

MagicHef
08-06-2014, 03:30 PM
LMAO

No one has PFF?

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 03:33 PM
The point is that you got caught with your bullshit and now you're changing the subject.

there was an article a couple weeks ago talking about how much Houston had to drop into coverage and how it could effect his contract due to the missed sack opportunities

SAUTO
08-06-2014, 03:35 PM
Homey, He does on passing downs. Again - somebody will write a nice little article about why Houston and the Chiefs are so far apart and cover all of this very soon. He ain't getting paid until after the season earliest. - and for good reason.

there has already been an article posted.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 03:36 PM
Smith deserves $10MM per year? That ain't happening and is a pipe dream. I have said all along $15MM avg for 5 years.

I took it as $4MM more on the Houston contract (guaranteed). He isn't getting $4MM per year more than Clay Mathews that's crazy talk.

Edit: - He said $70MM which is $4MM more than Mathews total.

In that case, then OldSchool is a dumbass.

The cap inflates. Contracts inflate. Players get overpaid.

Deal with it. Houston is probably asking for a Matthews contract, and we should give it to him.

Because once again, I'd rather overpay for Houston than overpay for Smith.

OldSchool
08-06-2014, 03:37 PM
In that case, then OldSchool is a dumbass.

The cap inflates. Contracts inflate. Players get overpaid.

Deal with it. Houston is probably asking for a Matthews contract, and we should give it to him.

Because once again, I'd rather overpay for Houston than overpay for Smith.

Houston hasn't even come close to being the league leader in sacks. Why would you want to pay him like he has done it?

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 03:39 PM
Houston hasn't even come close to being the league leader in sacks. Why would you want to pay him like he has done it?

Because he doesn't play weakside OLB. That's why.

MagicHef
08-06-2014, 03:41 PM
Alright dummies.

Houston was in for 456 passing plays in 2013.

He rushed the passer on 350 of them (77%) and stayed in coverage on 106.

MagicHef
08-06-2014, 03:46 PM
Alright dummies.

Houston was in for 456 passing plays in 2013.

He rushed the passer on 350 of them (77%) and stayed in coverage on 106.

Just FYI, that's up from 2012 (67%) and 2011 (56%).

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 04:14 PM
Houston hasn't even come close to being the league leader in sacks. Why would you want to pay him like he has done it?

He's come a lot closer to being an elite guy at his position than Alex has his.

Add in the age difference and the future potential, and you're going to "overpay" someone, you'd be a fool to choose Smith.

OldSchool
08-06-2014, 04:17 PM
He's come a lot closer to being an elite guy at his position than Alex has his.

Add in the age difference and the future potential, and you're going to "overpay" someone, you'd be a fool to choose Smith.

So you're happy overpaying for an OLB who is only effective against rookies and scrubs?

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 04:19 PM
So you're happy overpaying for an OLB who is only effective against rookies and scrubs?

Happier than I'd be if we overpaid an older QB who is only effective against bad teams (scrubs).

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 04:21 PM
Happier than I'd be if we overpaid an older QB who is only effective against bad teams (scrubs).

Right, keep telling yourself that.

The defenses we played in the second half of the season were no worse than the earlier defenses. Look for oyourself even though it doesnt fit your narrative.


You have your offense and defense mixed up. Our defense (see Houston) loaded up on scrubs and bad QB's early in the year and folded later against better teams.

Our offense playing the same caliber of defenses stepped it up.

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 04:23 PM
This place has a case of the retarded flu.

It wasn't but a few months ago that Houston was a fucking stud, and it was imperative that we lock him up long term.

In the meantime, people have gone Full Retard and apparently ignored the fact he's 25 years old with unlimited potential and has 3/4 of a sack per game in his career.

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 04:24 PM
Right, keep telling yourself that.

The defenses we played in the second half of the season were no worse than the earlier defenses. Look for oyourself even though it doesnt fit your narrative.


You have your offense and defense mixed up. Our defense (see Houston) loaded up on scrubs and bad QB's early in the year and folded later against better teams.

Our offense playing the same caliber of defenses stepped it up.

9-0 against teams under .500

1-6 against teams above .500

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 04:24 PM
can the anti-houston retards tell me who is a better package of pass rush and run defense right now in the nfl?

i need to see the names to believe this insanity is actually happening

MagicHef
08-06-2014, 04:34 PM
can the anti-houston retards tell me who is a better package of pass rush and run defense right now in the nfl?

i need to see the names to believe this insanity is actually happening

OLBs don't get paid for run defense.

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 04:35 PM
OLBs don't get paid for run defense.

names:

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 04:38 PM
names:

http://snappedshot.com/turbo/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Crickets_Ave.jpg

John Dope
08-06-2014, 04:40 PM
can the anti-houston retards tell me who is a better package of pass rush and run defense right now in the nfl?

i need to see the names to believe this insanity is actually happening

I don't think there are any anti-Houston retards. No one is saying not to re-sign the guy. I haven't heard one person say that. There are people who understand why KC would wait and there are people who don't understand.

This is a good example of the homerism I am talking about.

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 04:40 PM
how about we keep it simple, to start

name the olb's under 25 (or on their first contract) you think are better than houston

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 04:41 PM
I don't think there are any anti-Houston retards. No one is saying not to re-sign the guy. I haven't heard one person say that. There are people who understand why KC would wait and there are people who don't understand.

This is a good example of the homerism I am talking about.

i read your idiot post and labeled it as the idiocy it was

so let's get down to specifics...who are the players better than houston

MagicHef
08-06-2014, 04:43 PM
names:

I'd certainly take Watt and Von before Houston. Maybe Quinn?

If you want to limit it specifically to 3-4 OLBs, then Aldon would be a possibility, but probably only if his off-the field idiocy can be ignored.

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 04:44 PM
I'd certainly take Watt and Von before Houston. Maybe Quinn?

If you want to limit it specifically to 3-4 OLBs, then Aldon would be a possibility, but probably only if his off-the field idiocy can be ignored.

well, he isn't a DE, so...

we're left with 'maybe aldon'....a guy last seen in rehab

MagicHef
08-06-2014, 04:47 PM
well, he isn't a DE, so...

we're left with 'maybe aldon'....a guy last seen in rehab

If they were in a 3-4, Von and Quinn would be 3-4 OLBs. In terms of responsibilities, Von plays the exact same position as Houston.

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 04:50 PM
i'm honestly baffled at the houston hedging...he's the prototype for a 3-4 olb

he's 275 lbs, destroys QB, tackles, and te's...he's young and ascending

there's only 2, maybe 3 players you could even argue were better, imo, and it isn't clear they have more upside

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 04:54 PM
I don't think there are any anti-Houston retards. .
There are people like you who are delighted by the mediocre bullshit that Alex Smith puts up, but then Justin Houston's young career to date leaves you with "a lot of question marks"

That's being an anti-Houston retard.

bevischief
08-06-2014, 04:59 PM
This place has a case of the retarded flu.

It wasn't but a few months ago that Houston was a ****ing stud, and it was imperative that we lock him up long term.

In the meantime, people have gone Full Retard and apparently ignored the fact he's 25 years old with unlimited potential and has 3/4 of a sack per game in his career.

This.

Mr. Laz
08-06-2014, 04:59 PM
There are people like you who are delighted by the mediocre bullshit that Alex Smith puts up, but then Justin Houston's young career to date leaves you with "a lot of question marks"

That's being an anti-Houston retard.

translation: this is the same group of asshole complaining about the same QB issues. They have just found a new way to bitch about it.

The will continue to bitch about every draft, about every FA situation until we cut Alex Smith and trade for Geno Smith.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:03 PM
Everyone knows he's 25. Everyone knows he's not a DE. Everyone knows he is good and has the POTENTIAL to be great. Everyone here and in the Chiefs organization knows these things.

He is a pass rusher and he wants to be paid like one. Pass rushing is what he hangs his hat on and it is the difference in value between good and great OLBers and DEs. People can say whatever they want but this is what it's about.

Top tier pass rushers can wreak havoc from the right side of the defense. They can take on left tackles and do damage regularly. Houston has not shown he can do this period. That is the main reason why Dorsey not sold the farm on this guy. Throw in the fact that Dorsey didn't draft him, he's had more than one off the field drug problem in the past and he never played on right side regularly in college or pro and it's easy to understand why we're waiting. There have been several players of late who played opposite a good pass rusher who porked it after they got paid. Guys like Umenyiora, Woodley and Ray Edwards come to mind off the top of my head.

They are going to wait. Get used to it.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 05:04 PM
translation: this is the same group of asshole complaining about the same QB issues. They have just found a new way to bitch about it.

The will continue to bitch about every draft, about every FA situation until we cut Alex Smith and trade for Geno Smith.How goes your ongoing battle against the Nazi zombies and their Geno propaganda against the American people, Mr. Jones?

OldSchool
08-06-2014, 05:05 PM
The closest that Houston has come to leading the league in sacks was last season, he was tied for 11th in the league with 11 sacks, 8 sacks behind the #1 and #2 leaders in the league. He hasn't even cracked the top 5 despite playing across from Hali and not having to face the best pass protector on any team.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 05:06 PM
translation: this is the same group of asshole complaining about the same QB issues. They have just found a new way to bitch about it.

The will continue to bitch about every draft, about every FA situation until we cut Alex Smith and trade for Geno Smith.

When was the last (or first time, for that matter) that anyone mentioned trading for Geno Smith?

jd1020
08-06-2014, 05:06 PM
The closest that Houston has come to leading the league in sacks was last season, he was tied for 11th in the league with 11 sacks, 8 sacks behind the #1 and #2 leaders in the league. He hasn't even cracked the top 5 despite playing across from Hali and not having to face the best pass protector on any team.

A year in which he only played in 11 games.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 05:06 PM
Top tier pass rushers can wreak havoc from the right side of the defense. They can take on left tackles and do damage regularly.

And what side of the defense does Houston play on? :facepalm:

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:07 PM
There are people like you who are delighted by the mediocre bullshit that Alex Smith puts up, but then Justin Houston's young career to date leaves you with "a lot of question marks"

That's being an anti-Houston retard.

No bud. I am not speaking my personal opinion. I am not saying what I would do. I am telling you what I think they do and why.

Stop with the homer expectations. They aren't going to do what you want.

Sully
08-06-2014, 05:08 PM
Let's be ****ing real for a minute. Will Justin Houston get paid for his God Damnned coverage skills? How many outside linebackers in any kind of defense get paid for their coverage skills?



He will be getting paid for his pass rushing skills and his ability to stop the run. It will not be for his coverage skills.



The competition he faced rushing the passer and the success he had against them are the most relevant factors in determining his value. Not his ****ing coverage skills.



He blitzed 90% of the time imo and if we weren't blitzing him we were ****ing stupid.


He'll be paid for his skills as a linebacker, which includes blitzing, but also coverage (which he's pretty good at) and spying (something he spent the ENTIRE Raiders game doing, which blows your 90% "opinion" out of the water).
He is more valuable because he can do all those things.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:08 PM
And what side of the defense does Houston play on? :facepalm:

The left side of the defense. He is a LOLB who goes against RTs the majority of the time. Stop with the stupid shit man. It's really weak sauce.

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 05:10 PM
9-0 against teams under .500

1-6 against teams above .500


That wasn't the comment or the point as you know. Your exact words were weak defenses. There was no difference between first half and second half in the level of defenses we played. Period.

The Defense struggled the second half of the season against better teams and check that out look at the record the second half.

We started 9-0 as you know, so your point about our record against winning teams being 6-1 falls directly on the shoulders of the defense collapse.

You basically just made my point.

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 05:11 PM
Yeah, it's downright disgraceful that a guy that played 11 games was only 11th in sacks.

I'm pretty sure only Quinn and Mathis beat Houston in sacks per game.

ThaVirus
08-06-2014, 05:11 PM
The closest that Houston has come to leading the league in sacks was last season, he was tied for 11th in the league with 11 sacks, 8 sacks behind the #1 and #2 leaders in the league. He hasn't even cracked the top 5 despite playing across from Hali and not having to face the best pass protector on any team.


Jd beat me to it but he only played in 11 games. He was leading the league in sacks when he got hurt.

We didn't hold a single fucking lead 8 fucking games into the 2012 season. It's a minor fucking miracle he was able to break 10 that season.

2011 was his rookie year.

Anybody that's anybody can see that his arrow is pointing up. WAY up.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:12 PM
A year in which he only played in 11 games.

65% or 7.5 of his sacks came in two games against rookies and 78% or 9.5 of his sacks came against crappy RTs. You have to look beyond the stats. You have to look at the competition.

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 05:13 PM
Happier than I'd be if we overpaid an older QB who is only effective against bad teams (scrubs).

That wasn't the comment or the point as you know. Your exact words were weak defenses. There was no difference between first half and second half in the level of defenses we played. Period.

The Defense struggled the second half of the season against better teams and check that out look at the record the second half.

We started 9-0 as you know, so your point about our record against winning teams being 6-1 falls directly on the shoulders of the defense collapse.

You basically just made my point.

You might want to learn to read, Chief. I never said a word about defenses.

You might want to slow down. In a rush to follow me around and try to refute everything I post, you've become a bit of a fuckup.

OldSchool
08-06-2014, 05:14 PM
If I were Dorsey, I'd tell Houston this:

"If you want to be paid like the best pass rusher in the NFL, go prove that you are the best."

If he can lead the league in sacks and make big plays in games that actually matter, then he'll be worth every penny. If he can't even get at least within the top 5 then I'm not making him the highest paid OLB in the NFL. It's as simple as that.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 05:14 PM
No bud. I am not speaking my personal opinion. I am not saying what I would do. I am telling you what I think they do and why.

Stop with the homer expectations. They aren't going to do what you want.
1. You don't fucking know what the Chiefs are going to do.

2. Who wrote the rule that said football talk can only ever be about what teams are going to do? Fuck, we're Chiefs fans. If we don't talk about what WE would do on certain decisions, then we're left with food threads and re-posting shit from Arrowhead Pride.

jd1020
08-06-2014, 05:14 PM
65% or 7.5 of his sacks came in two games against rookies and 78% or 9.5 of his sacks came against crappy RTs. You have to look beyond the stats. You have to look at the competition.

So you bring up the stats but we have to look beyond the stats.

Got it.

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 05:15 PM
berry, bowe, houston, albert


amazing how any player who has actually been good for the chiefs has some bizarre chorus of haters


while the line of crap QBs, UDFA hail marys, and training camp heros have endless lines of zealous defenders..

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:16 PM
Yeah, it's downright disgraceful that a guy that played 11 games was only 11th in sacks.

I'm pretty sure only Quinn and Mathis beat Houston in sacks per game.

Against much better competition and their sacks came throughout the season. They didn't get 4.5 sacks against a rookie in his first game and then 3 sacks against another rookie in his second game. Think about it.

OldSchool
08-06-2014, 05:18 PM
Yeah, it's downright disgraceful that a guy that played 11 games was only 11th in sacks.

I'm pretty sure only Quinn and Mathis beat Houston in sacks per game.

Tell me, who did Houston get his sacks against last year? Where did most of his sacks come from?

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:18 PM
1. You don't ****ing know what the Chiefs are going to do.

2. Who wrote the rule that said football talk can only ever be about what teams are going to do? ****, we're Chiefs fans. If we don't talk about what WE would do on certain decisions, then we're left with food threads and re-posting shit from Arrowhead Pride.

I don't know what they are going to do but I can make guesses. No one wrote any rule. I am just clarifying because people are stupid and act like everyone hates Houston. You can have all the expectations and meltdowns you want homey.

OnTheWarpath15
08-06-2014, 05:18 PM
I have thought about it.

You make KC Johnny look like a competent football poster.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 05:20 PM
Tell me, who did Houston get his sacks against last year? Where did most of his sacks come from?
How much time did Houston have to sack the QB per snap from the Texans game until the end of the season?

What do Hali's stats look like in that span? Where are all of his sacks?

the Talking Can
08-06-2014, 05:20 PM
john dope is the guy whose uncle used his mouth as a ball washer, right?

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 05:21 PM
You might want to learn to read, Chief. I never said a word about defenses.

You might want to slow down. In a rush to follow me around and try to refute everything I post, you've become a bit of a ****up.

Damn you got me it wasn't your exact words. What will I ever do.

I am also certain when you said he plays well against scrubs that you meant defense. I mean he surely isn't playing their offense is he? Did I get that wrong?
Last I checked you admitted and know Smith played well the back half of the year. Did I get that wrong?

So try to twist meanings and play your word semantics game you enjoy so well, the fact is what you implied is the same & nothing I said about losing when the defense tanked is wrong.

I got your exact words wrong but the intent was dead on.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:21 PM
So you bring up the stats but we have to look beyond the stats.

Got it.

No I am telling the story behind the stats. Are you that ****ing stupid? Is this what people do here when they have nothing? I wish I could puke into my dick and spew it on your face like slimer from Ghostbusters. You are a disgrace to Chiefs forum participants with your Goddamned 10,000 ****ing posts with thoughtless comments like that.

Coogs
08-06-2014, 05:23 PM
Tell me, who did Houston get his sacks against last year? Where did most of his sacks come from?

3 in game one against Jax, and 4.5 in game three at Philly. Not sure who the RT's were those games.

RunKC
08-06-2014, 05:24 PM
how about we keep it simple, to start

name the olb's under 25 (or on their first contract) you think are better than houston

Aldon Smith and Cameron Wake are the only 2 I can think of

jd1020
08-06-2014, 05:25 PM
No I am telling the story behind the stats. Are you that ****ing stupid? Is this what people do here when they have nothing? I wish I could puke into my dick and spew it on your face like slimer from Ghostbusters. You are a disgrace to Chiefs forum participants with your Goddamned 10,000 ****ing posts with thoughtless comments like that.

So you put a lot of thought into shit like saying a LB can create havoc from the right side and Houston hasn't shown he can do that yet.... when he plays on the ****ing left side?

Good shit.

ThaVirus
08-06-2014, 05:27 PM
Wake is a 4-3 DE.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 05:29 PM
For people bitching about all the shitty RTs that Houston feasted upon, tell me why Tamba Hali didn't post a sack against Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver, San Diego, or Denver?

It could be because of the level of competition.

Or.... a more likely explanation is that when the offensive gameplan is to exploit your shitty corners on short routes and make them play overaggressive press man, your pass rushers are given barely any time at all to get to the QB.

Is that an excuse I'm making for Houston? Sure. But it's no different than all the excuses Alex gets, whether they're valid or not. And in any case, we're drawing on both players for big time contract extensions that are more than likely going to be overpayments.

Once again, though, John Dope (AKA Black Bob) says Houston "has a lot of question marks" but is giving Alex Smith a huge pass. It makes no sense at all.

Marcellus
08-06-2014, 05:33 PM
For people bitching about all the shitty RTs that Houston feasted upon, tell me why Tamba Hali didn't post a sack against Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver, San Diego, or Denver?

It could be because of the level of competition.

Or.... a more likely explanation is that when the offensive gameplan is to exploit your shitty corners on short routes and make them play overaggressive press man, your pass rushers are given barely any time at all to get to the QB.

Is that an excuse I'm making for Houston? Sure. But it's no different than all the excuses Alex gets, whether they're valid or not. And in any case, we're drawing on both players for big time contract extensions that are more than likely going to be overpayments.

Once again, though, John Dope (AKA Black Bob) says Houston "has a lot of question marks" but is giving Alex Smith a huge pass. It makes no sense at all.

This is really the only argument I am making on Houston. The situations aren't much different yet people act like its night and day.

I want both but neither are deserving an elite level contract. Its that simple.

OTWP is simply anal leaking everywhere because we didn't draft Smith and wants Houston to get bank because we did draft him.

It is that simple.

John Dope
08-06-2014, 05:34 PM
Whatever SNR. If Hali was going against Joekel and Johnson instead of Monroe who had not been traded yet and Peters he would probably have 7.5 sacks in two games instead of 1. Tyson Jackson even made Joekel look bad and got a sack. Those two games are good examples of when teams didn't game plan to exploit the corners.

RealSNR
08-06-2014, 05:45 PM
Whatever SNR. If Hali was going against Joekel and Johnson instead of Monroe who had not been traded yet and Peters he would probably have 7.5 sacks in two games instead of 1. Tyson Jackson even made Joekel look bad and got a sack. Those two games are good examples of when teams didn't game plan to exploit the corners.

NO.

FUCKING.

SHIT.

SHERLOCK.

Sorter
08-06-2014, 05:51 PM
Whatever SNR. If Hali was going against Joekel and Johnson instead of Monroe who had not been traded yet and Peters he would probably have 7.5 sacks in two games instead of 1. Tyson Jackson even made Joekel look bad and got a sack. Those two games are good examples of when teams didn't game plan to exploit the corners.

I love this kind of speculation, Roberto.