Fuck you guys saying taking a QB in the first solves everything

[Rams Fan]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. Fuck all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

[Hammock Parties]

http://i.imgur.com/smjxXiH.gif

[ptlyon]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. **** all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

Todd blackledge FU

[TLO]

I'm sorry.

[cmh6476]

Cardinals suck

[RealSNR]

When has this brokedick ever demonstrated that he can be dependably relied on to stay healthy and guide his team to the playoffs and beyond? LMAO

The Rams were morons for putting their eggs in this pussy's basket.

[Ming the Merciless]

injuries happen

no one even remembers or talks about Moeaki

Imagine his pain

[RealSNR]

I seem to remember the last time the Rams starting QB went out for the year in the preseason.

You should be happy about this, RamsFan.

[thabear04]

injuries happen

no one even remembers or talks about Moeaki

Imagine his pain

Is he still with the bills.

[milkman]

It's always a surprise when dumbasses don't understand the argument.

[Deberg_1990]

Well, at least you guys didnt take Clausen #1 overall like CP would have done.

[OldSchool]

Lol. Preach the truth! ROFL

[Bewbies]

Sam Bradford was hurt when they drafted him wasn't he? LMAO

$70,000,000 for a broke dick, pricey....

[OldSchool]

Sam Bradford was hurt when they drafted him wasn't he? LMAO

$70,000,000 for a broke dick, pricey....

Actually, $78 mil, lol.

[Rams Fan]

When has this brokedick ever demonstrated that he can be dependably relied on to stay healthy and guide his team to the playoffs and beyond? LMAO

The Rams were morons for putting their eggs in this pussy's basket.

His rookie year(didn't miss any snaps) and 2012. 2011 he would have missed less time if Spags rested him and didn't aggravate his sprain.

[Bewbies]

Actually, $78 mil, lol.

I was asking (for the inevitable) 10% senior discount.

[Bearcat]

No one says that.

That sucks.

[thabear04]

Sam Bradford was hurt when they drafted him wasn't he? LMAO

$70,000,000 for a broke dick, pricey....

Think it was his ankle.

[DeezNutz]

I hear you. I was screaming for the Rams to take a high-upside yet safe pick like Jason Smith. Dude was a fucking stud in college.

Oh, shit...

[Rams Fan]

It's always a surprise when dumbasses don't understand the argument.

I understand the argument. Prior to Bradford, the Rams hadn't drafted a QB in the 1st since 1960.

I'd rather take a QB from the 2nd round on, every fucking draft, until a "franchise" QB is found as to make the cap manageable then pinning the hopes onto one drafted 1st overall(who had a large salary due to the previous CBA, mind you) while building around him.

[Fritz88]

That's the NFL.

[milkman]

I understand the argument. Prior to Bradford, the Rams hadn't drafted a QB in the 1st since 1960.

I'd rather take a QB from the 2nd round on, every ****ing draft, until a "franchise" QB is found as to make the cap manageable then pinning the hopes onto one drafted 1st overall(who had a large salary due to the previous CBA, mind you) while building around him.

The argument has never been that all of your problems are solved when taking a first round QB.

The argument is that your best chance at finding an elite QB, a franchise QB, is taking a QB in the first round.

I have no problem with your plan.
You are almost certainly going to hit on one eventually.

[Ming the Merciless]

Is he still with the bills.

he ripped his hammy real bad apparently


not sure whats up with him

[OldSchool]

RG3 looks like crap now too, lol. He has been pretty bad since his return from the injury.

[jonzie04]

Chiefs are failing due to sucking in the draft. We have only had like 3 good draft picks since 200fucking8

[Rams Fan]

The argument has never been that all of your problems are solved when taking a first round QB.

The argument is that your best chance at finding an elite QB, a franchise QB, is taking a QB in the first round.

I have no problem with your plan.
You are almost certainly going to hit on one eventually.

Honestly, that's my largest problem with Fisher at the moment. He brought in a vet backup that's better than Clemens, fine. However, I don't understand why not to draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd, especially considering that Hill won't be around forever and if Bradford would have stayed healthy for a long period of time, he'd still need someone to hold the clipboard, so why not draft someone with more potential than Garrett Fucking Gilbert?

[Deberg_1990]

The argument has never been that all of your problems are solved when taking a first round QB.

The argument is that your best chance at finding an elite QB, a franchise QB, is taking a QB in the first round.

I have no problem with your plan.
You are almost certainly going to hit on one eventually.

I completely understand the argument.
On the flip flop, there are plenty of others ways to skin a cat. We just had a Super Bowl winner with a 3rd rounder.


The Rams did the right thing. Just a victim of bad luck.

32 teams out of 32 teams would have taken Bradford in that same position.

[OldSchool]

I completely understand the argument.
On the flip flop, there are plenty of others ways to skin a cat. We just had a Super Bowl winner with a 3rd rounder.


The Rams did the right thing. Just a victim of bad luck.

32 teams out of 32 teams would have taken Bradford in that same position.

Nah, I would have taken Suh, the most dominant player in college football in 2010. Bradford was very "meh" to me.

[milkman]

My problem with ths Chiefs approach isn't that they haven't taken a first round QB, it's that they have only committed to a young QB with potential in 30 years.

[KcMizzou]

I completely understand the argument.
On the flip flop, there are plenty of others ways to skin a cat. We just had a Super Bowl winner with a 3rd rounder.


The Rams did the right thing. Just a victim of bad luck.

32 teams out of 32 teams would have taken Bradford in that same position.Really? I watched Bradford all through college, and he never struck me as an elite QB talent.

[Bearcat]

I completely understand the argument.
On the flip flop, there are plenty of others ways to skin a cat. We just had a Super Bowl winner with a 3rd rounder.


The Rams did the right thing. Just a victim of bad luck.

32 teams out of 32 teams would have taken Bradford in that same position.

Agenda cherry picking aside, there's pretty much two... a QB who's capable of playing at an elite level in the playoffs or a defense that can stop one (since you'll probably be playing against one).

[RealSNR]

I completely understand the argument.
On the flip flop, there are plenty of others ways to skin a cat. We just had a Super Bowl winner with a 3rd rounder.


The Rams did the right thing. Just a victim of bad luck.

32 teams out of 32 teams would have taken Bradford in that same position.
Bradford is one of the few 1st round QBs I advocated for passing on if the Chiefs were in that position. I legitimately believed he was a pile of shit.

The other was Branden Weeden.

I put stock in a lot of shitty QBs, but I also put stock in some QBs like Flacco that people wanted nothing to do with.

[Deberg_1990]

My problem with ths Chiefs approach isn't that they haven't taken a first round QB, it's that they have only committed to a young QB with potential in 30 years.

Yea, I would agree with this.

Honestly , there haven't been many 1st round QBs they passed on that turned out to be anything. Rodgers is the only one that comes to mind.


The Chiefs have drafted many lower round QBs, but did a crap job of developing them.

[Bearcat]

My problem with ths Chiefs approach isn't that they haven't taken a first round QB, it's that they have only committed to a young QB with potential in 30 years.

Yeah, it's not like you have to every year or even every few years, and if you're successful despite not developing your own QBs, awesome... but, the exact same strategy for three decades with no success to show for it is pathetic.

[MotherfuckerJones]

No ones saying it solves a goddamn thing. We're saying at least TRY!

[RealSNR]

Yea, I would agree with this.

Honestly , there haven't been many 1st round QBs they passed on that turned out to be anything. Rodgers is the only one that comes to mind.


The Chiefs have drafted many lower round QBs, but did a crap job of developing them.

"Many"

Brodie Croyle, Ricky Stanzi, and Aaron Murray.

Yeah, we sure are throwing our seeds all over the fucking place!

[Rams Fan]

If Luck was at 2 instead of RG3, I would have been more open to the idea of taking Luck then stay and take RG3.

[Rams Fan]

It's official now. Fuck this shit.

[Bearcat]

Not sure why it has to be limited to 1st round, either... no QBs in the first 3 rounds since Croyle........ and 15 linemen since then.

[Deberg_1990]

"Many"

Brodie Croyle, Ricky Stanzi, and Aaron Murray.

Yeah, we sure are throwing our seeds all over the ****ing place!

I'm talking over the past 25 to 30 years.


Steve Stenstrom, Mike Elkins, Matt Blundin etc....

[KcMizzou]

No ones saying it solves a goddamn thing. We're saying at least TRY!You have to be more than a little lucky. Bad enough to be in position to take an elite QB, at the same time when there's one available. We suffered through a season bad enough to get the first pick in the draft, and ended up with Eric Fucking Fisher.

Even if he eventually is not a bust (sure looks like one right now), it'll always be a disappointing pick.

[milkman]

Bradford is one of the few 1st round QBs I advocated for passing on if the Chiefs were in that position. I legitimately believed he was a pile of shit.

The other was Branden Weeden.

I put stock in a lot of shitty QBs, but I also put stock in some QBs like Flacco that people wanted nothing to do with.

I didn't like those guys either, and I didn't like Ryan.

And of the other QBs that others liked that didn't go first round, I didn't like Clausen.

There's more, but they aren't coming to mind at the moment.

[RealSNR]

Rams Fan:

You have the following offers. Do you bite on any of them? Yes, all teams are going to make you pay prices this steep, especially Washington.

Rams get: Kirk Cousins
Rams give up: 2015 1st round pick, 2016 3rd round pick

Rams get: Matt Cassel
Rams give up: 2015 2nd round pick, 2015 6th round pick

Rams get: Mark Sanchez
Rams give up: 2015 3rd round pick, conditional 3rd/4th round pick in 2016

Rams get: Ryan Mallett
Rams give up: 2015 2nd round pick

Rams get: Chase Daniel
Rams give up: Brandon McGee

[Bearcat]

You have to be more than a little lucky. Bad enough to be in position to take an elite QB, at the same time when there's one available. We suffered through a season bad enough to get the first pick in the draft, and ended up with Eric ****ing Fisher.

Even if he eventually is not a bust (sure looks like one right now), it'll always be a disappointing pick.

Every quarterback was available, but of course you can't select just anyone at 1.1.




/sarcasm

[Rams Fan]

Rams Fan:

You have the following offers. Do you bite on any of them?

Rams get: Kirk Cousins
Rams give up: 2015 1st round pick, 2016 3rd round pick

Rams get: Matt Cassel
Rams give up: 2015 2nd round pick, 2015 6th round pick

Rams get: Mark Sanchez
Rams give up: 2015 3rd round pick, conditional 3rd/4th round pick in 2016

Rams get: Ryan Mallett
Rams give up: 2015 2nd round pick

Rams get: Chase Daniel
Rams give up: Brandon McGee

Possibly
No
No
Doubtful
No(CB depth is already thin)

I'd like Cousins or Glennon. I think Glennon can be had less for Cousins, though I don't know if that's the case with Lovie's comments about him being the QBOTF.

[RealSNR]

Possibly
No
No
Doubtful
No(CB depth is already thin)

I'd like Cousins or Glennon. I think Glennon can be had less for Cousins, though I don't know if that's the case with Lovie's comments about him being the QBOTF.

In that case, throw Glennon into the mix for a 2015 2nd.

[Rams Fan]

In that case, throw Glennon into the mix for a 2015 2nd.

If Fisher and Snead think that Glennon can be the starter for the future, then sure, I'd be down with that.

[Deberg_1990]

Rams Fan:

You have the following offers. Do you bite on any of them? Yes, all teams are going to make you pay prices this steep, especially Washington.

Rams get: Kirk Cousins
Rams give up: 2015 1st round pick, 2016 3rd round pick

Rams get: Matt Cassel
Rams give up: 2015 2nd round pick, 2015 6th round pick

Rams get: Mark Sanchez
Rams give up: 2015 3rd round pick, conditional 3rd/4th round pick in 2016

Rams get: Ryan Mallett
Rams give up: 2015 2nd round pick

Rams get: Chase Daniel
Rams give up: Brandon McGee


hmmmmm. Cassel vs Sanchez. Decisions. Decisions.

[Rams Fan]

hmmmmm. Cassel vs Sanchez. Decisions. Decisions.

Sanchez if I had to choose between the 2. He at least knows Schottenheimer's system.

[milkman]

I don't think I'd trust the development of any young QB to Brian Schottenheimer.

[Mav]

Cousins if they could get him, would be a god send.

They should look into Mallet as well.

[Molitoth]

At least the rams tried, too bad they chose a really overrated prospect.

[KcMizzou]

Sanchez if I had to choose between the 2. He at least knows Schottenheimer's system.Wrong choice, IMO.

[Munson]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. Fuck all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

Carl Peterson and the Hunt family agree! :LOL:

[WakkaWakka]

Think the Rams would be dumb enough to trade 2 2nd round picks for Alex Smith? No team is THAT dumb! right? ....oh wait.

[Cheater5]

Drafting a QB in the first round MAY not solve everything. But I know that NOT drafting one gets you three decades of mediocrity.

[TribalElder]

We cannot help it if you picked a shitty quarterback

[Rams Fan]

We cannot help it if you picked a shitty quarterback

Hindsight always is right, isn't it?

[New World Order]

You could of had Blake Bortles. Instead you draft an offensive lineman at number 2 who didn't even start last night.

[R8RFAN]

When has this brokedick ever demonstrated that he can be dependably relied on to stay healthy and guide his team to the playoffs and beyond? LMAO

The Rams were morons for putting their eggs in this pussy's basket.

Pot meet Kettle :LOL:

[notorious]

You could of had Blake Bortles. Instead you draft an offensive lineman at number 2 who didn't even start last night.

/thread

[Deberg_1990]

You could of had Blake Bortles. Instead you draft an offensive lineman at number 2 who didn't even start last night.

The should have drafted RGIII and dumped Bradford

[Reerun_KC]

Well, at least you guys didnt take Clausen #1 overall like CP would have done.
QFT. This place melted down when we passed on that dickcap.

[RealSNR]

Pot meet Kettle :LOL:

Which QBs have I ever championed who are made of glass?

I mean, I kind of liked Jake Locker I suppose, but I wasn't exactly banging the table like I have QB prospects that I REALLY endorse

[Rams Fan]

Just read this on PFT:

Aug 24, 2014 7:40 PM
Just speculating on the obsurd yesterday that the Vikes are in a very good position. Bridgewater looks ready and is out performing Cassell. Perhaps now they will dangle Cassell to the Rams for a 1 and 4 pick. The Vikes Gm is a genius.



WTF is this bullshit.

[jd1020]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. **** all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

Say what?

[Bowser]

At least the Rams tried to find a franchise QB, even if their scouting department sold them on a broke dick.

[RealSNR]

Just read this on PFT:




WTF is this bullshit.

That is bonkers and fucking insane.

A 1 and a 4? LMAO

[Deberg_1990]

At least the Rams tried to find a franchise QB, even if their scouting department sold them on a broke dick.

Heh, Sure. You know damn well this place would be going nuts right now if This would have happened to the Chiefs.

[jd1020]

Just read this on PFT:




WTF is this bullshit.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121205194057/simpsons/images/e/e9/Nelson_Ha-Ha.jpg

[Bowser]

Just read this on PFT:




WTF is this bullshit.

Holy shit. LMAO

[jd1020]

Heh, Sure. You know damn well this place would be going nuts right now if This would have happened to the Chiefs.

It would suck, for sure.

But I wouldn't feel any worse for the season than I feel about it right now.

I'd feel better about the future knowing that the team just saw the last of their #1 pick QB and will likely replace him with another top QB next year.

Meanwhile, in KC, I have to worry about this bum motherfucker replacing Alex because we are the Chiefs.

[Bowser]

Heh, Sure. You know damn well this place would be going nuts right now if This would have happened to the Chiefs.

That brings up an interesting question -

What would be worse, drafting a QB 1.1 overall just to watch him get injured year after year, or draft a tackle at 1.1 just to watch him get repeatedly beat like a drum?

[RealSNR]

It would suck, for sure.

But I wouldn't feel any worse for the season than I feel about it right now.

I'd feel better about the future knowing that the team just saw the last of their #1 pick QB and will likely replace him with another top QB next year.

Meanwhile, in KC, I have to worry about this bum motherfucker replacing Alex because we are the Chiefs.
Yep.

In one scenario the LT is being blamed for the faults of the shitfart QB, and very likely the shitfart QB would stay on the team.

In the other scenario, the shitfart QB is replaced.

I prefer the latter. Get the shitfart out of there.

[notorious]

Just read this on PFT:




WTF is this bullshit.


ROFL


Holy fucking shit.

[Rams Fan]

I would become a Chiefs fan if Cassel became the starter.

[R8RFAN]

I would become a Chiefs fan if Cassel became the starter.

yOU MAY AS WELL, You have always wanted to be a Cheap fan... admit it

[WakkaWakka]

I would become a Chiefs fan if Cassel became the starter.

Don't put yourself through that kind of hell

[R8RFAN]

I would become a Chiefs fan if Cassel became the starter.
You would have to sell your trailer in St.Louie and buy another trailer in Kansas Shitty

[John Dope]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. **** all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

Maybe you can get Bray after we cut him?

[Just Passin' By]

“Shaun’s our guy,” Fisher told reporters. “We brought him here. He’s got experience. We’ve got all the confidence in the world in him.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/24/fisher-declares-shaun-hill-is-our-guy/

Find some place that hasn't taken the Rams off the board and bet the under, quick.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. Fuck all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

No one ever said it was without risk, but it has the greatest potential odds of paying off with a Super Bowl.

Aces get cracked, perfect drives end up in a sand divot, and a 430 foot blast is hit to dead center in Minute Maid.

Your problem wasn't drafting a QB, it was drafting the wrong one.

[Dave Lane]

Well, at least you guys didnt take Clausen #1 overall like CP would have done.

Not one person ever advocated that.

[Deberg_1990]

Not one person ever advocated that.

nope


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6325656&postcount=8

[John Dope]

No one ever said it was without risk, but it has the greatest potential odds of paying off with a Super Bowl.

Aces get cracked, perfect drives end up in a sand divot, and a 430 foot blast is hit to dead center in Minute Maid.

Your problem wasn't drafting a QB, it was drafting the wrong one.

You definately don't have to take a QB in the first round to get to the Superbowl nowadays. Since 2000, ten starting Superbowl QBs were first round picks and nine were not.

[R8RFAN]

nope


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6325656&postcount=8

:LOL::thumb::doh!:

[Hammock Parties]

You definately don't have to take a QB in the first round to get to the Superbowl nowadays. Since 2000, ten starting Superbowl QBs were first round picks and nine were not.

And how many of those were Tom Brady?

[John Dope]

And how many of those were Tom Brady?

One

Brady
Warner
Johnson
Gannon
Delhomme
Hasselback
Brees
Kapernick
Wilson

[Easy 6]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/24/fisher-declares-shaun-hill-is-our-guy/

Find some place that hasn't taken the Rams off the board and bet the under, quick.

Sure thing, Jeff... thats why you're inquiring about Sanchez.

[Rams Fan]

At least I was right about Clausen.

[stonedstooge]

You would have to sell your trailer in St.Louie and buy another trailer in Kansas Shitty

Your old lady kick you out into your camper in the driveway yet?

[Kaepernick]

I never said taking a 1st round QB prospect "solves everything.

I have said you need a top QB and the best way to find one is to take a QB as high in the 1st round as you can, and repeat until you hit gold.

At the same time, you need a coaching staff that can develop him. If your coaching staff can't develop young QBs, then you are shit out of luck anyway.

So your best chance to become a top NFL team is to endure bad years while you search for your franchise QB in the 1st round and then have good coaching to develop him. That is Priority 1.

Dorsey could have had Teddy Bridgewater at 23 this year and he passed on him. We will see how that plays out.

[Chief Roundup]

If your 1st round QB isn't working out he sure helps to load the rest of the roster with higher draft picks. You can keep the circle going until you draft another high 1st round QB.

[Kaepernick]

His rookie year(didn't miss any snaps) and 2012. 2011 he would have missed less time if Spags rested him and didn't aggravate his sprain.

Bradford has been the victim of bad luck and bad coaching, pre Fisher. Now that he has the coaching, he can't stay healthy on the field to practice that coaching.

He is just had abysmal luck. I wouldn't wish his bad luck on anyone. Things were really shaping up for him this year.

[Kaepernick]

If your 1st round QB isn't working out he sure helps to load the rest of the roster with higher draft picks. You can keep the circle going until you draft another high 1st round QB.

BINGO. It takes patience and is trying on a fan base, but it is your best shot to eventually get a championship caliber franchise QB.

You guys just got darn unlucky to have the 1.1 pick in a rotten year.

[OldSchool]

Yeah, and how many coaches are you going to go through while continue to fudge that 1st round QB pick?

[tecumseh]

If your 1st round QB isn't working out he sure helps to load the rest of the roster with higher draft picks. You can keep the circle going until you draft another high 1st round QB.

This is a philosophy I find exciting. Just build til you hit that jackpot. Better than half-assed dumpster diving into mediocrity.

[OldSchool]

This is a philosophy I find exciting. Just build til you hit that jackpot. Better than half-assed dumpster diving into mediocrity.

So it's exciting to be a Browns fan I guess.

[Demonpenz]

Is he still with the bills.

They Medical Bills

[Dave Lane]

Drafting a QB in the first round MAY not solve everything. But I know that NOT drafting one gets you three decades of mediocrity.

Try 4 decades. The last time the Chiefs were truly relevant the Beatles had yet to release "Let It Be" and we had just landed on the moon.

[Discuss Thrower]

Try 4 decades. The last time the Chiefs were truly relevant the Beatles had yet to release "Let It Be" and we had just landed on the moon.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/263560_o.gif

[In58men]

Kaepernick is our only hope 6 years from now

[R8RFAN]

Your old lady kick you out into your camper in the driveway yet?
not yet

[FloridaMan88]

History has shown that teams find franchise QB's in the draft (usually but not always in the higher rounds), rather than acquiring a veteran QB via a trade/free agency.

There are exceptions of course… Drew Brees in New Orleans and Manning in Denver, but history shows that the draft is usually the way to go.

[ChiefsCountry]

Remember this graphic
http://www.sportsdatallc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/superbowl_qbs_v6_650.png

[OldSchool]

Remember this graphic
http://www.sportsdatallc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/superbowl_qbs_v6_650.png

Too bad Smith wasn't a 1st round QB . . . oh wait . . .:doh!:

[FloridaMan88]

Too bad Smith wasn't a 1st round QB . . . oh wait . . .:doh!:

Yeah drafting QB's in the first round is too risky…

Go the safe route and draft left tackles instead.

Oh wait...

[Discuss Thrower]

Too bad Smith wasn't a 1st round QB . . . oh wait . . .:doh!:

At least half of those 1-30 guys were developed by the team that drafted them.

[Exoter175]

I'm not going to lie, the little news ticker that I got about Bradford going down made me hope that Daniel would get traded or something.

[Just Passin' By]

History has shown that teams find franchise QB's in the draft (usually but not always in the higher rounds), rather than acquiring a veteran QB via a trade/free agency.

There are exceptions of course… Drew Brees in New Orleans and Manning in Denver, but history shows that the draft is usually the way to go.

Dawson
Unitas
Plunkett
Theisman
Williams
Hostetler
Young
Favre
Warner
Dilfer
Johnson
Brees

That's 13 out of 48 (27%), a fair number of exceptions to the rule. More than 1 in 4 SBs have been won by QBs who were not playing for the team that drafted them.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. **** all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

It does if you draft the right QB, no matter what round it is. You just have to have a little good fortune. Also, identify your guy and pull the trigger. Don't do it just to do it. It's not like picking out a new flavor of Doritos, it's a big investment. Guys can be found on the retread end as well but good fortune is a big part of that as well obviously.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

We told you Bradford sucked.

[Dave Lane]

I'm not going to lie, the little news ticker that I got about Bradford going down made me hope that Daniel would get traded or something.

This times 10 quadzillion

[WakkaWakka]

It does if you draft the right QB, no matter what round it is. You just have to have a little good fortune. Also, identify your guy and pull the trigger. Don't do it just to do it. It's not like picking out a new flavor of Doritos, it's a big investment. Guys can be found on the retread end as well but good fortune is a big part of that as well obviously.

Mmmm doritos

[HemiEd]

Yeah, it's not like you have to every year or even every few years, and if you're successful despite not developing your own QBs, awesome... but, the exact same strategy for three decades with no success to show for it is pathetic.

Exactly. The definition of insanity.

Of course, that is assuming the goal is to win a super bowl. I am convinced it is to be competitive, putt butts in the seats and make it to the playoffs.

[ChiliConCarnage]

eh - Sucks about Bradford but you can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

This Chiefs fan/tweet is why we fail. I didn't know Sacc was on twitter...

@TSRFraizer: Alex Smith is a poor man's Aaron Rodgers

[TEX]

IF the Chiefs ever took the chance and drafted a 1st round QB again, he would probably turn out to be the 2nd coming of Ryan Leaf...Because Chiefs.

[John Dope]

The game has changed over the last decade. It seems like no one here wants to recognize that. The more it has become a passing league, the less having a first round QB seems to matter as far as Superbowls go.

[Steron]

Sucks for Bradford and Rams fans. He seems like a good kid. The hit didn't look bad. Heck, he didn't even get knocked down. It's a shame.

[ChiefsCountry]

The game has changed over the last decade. It seems like no one here wants to recognize that. The more it has become a passing league, the less having a first round QB seems to matter as far as Superbowls go.

8 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners have been first round quarterbacks you fucking idiot.

[John Dope]

8 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners have been first round quarterbacks you ****ing idiot.

I never said anything about winning the Superbowl you ****ing idiot. Winning the Superbowl is fucking hard and I am realistic.

[jd1020]

The game has changed over the last decade. It seems like no one here wants to recognize that. The more it has become a passing league, the less having a first round QB seems to matter as far as Superbowls go.

This makes absolutely no ****ing sense to me.

You are saying since the league is becoming more and more pass happy, that it's less important to try and get one of the best QBs (the guy that passes the ball) in the draft?

What... the... ****... ???

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Heh, the Snatchz wants nothing to do with STL.

[Bearcat]

Dawson
Unitas
Plunkett
Theisman
Williams
Hostetler
Young
Favre
Warner
Dilfer
Johnson
Brees

That's 13 out of 48 (27%), a fair number of exceptions to the rule. More than 1 in 4 SBs have been won by QBs who were not playing for the team that drafted them.

Eh, having a great defense is the main exception (and there are only a few of those), which leaves 4 of the last 20, and 2 of those were 17+ years ago.

[cmh6476]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Would love a call from the rams!</p>&mdash; David Garrard (@davidgarrard9) <a href="https://twitter.com/davidgarrard9/statuses/503907099718717440">August 25, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[John Dope]

This makes absolutely no ****ing sense to me.

You are saying since the league is becoming more and more pass happy, that it's less important to try and get one of the best QBs (the guy that passes the ball) in the draft?

What... the... ****... ???

I am saying the game has changed. College has become a passing league too. There are a lot more QBs throwing the ball more effectively than there used to be. Pass attempts are way up league wide in college or pro. Passing records are regularly getting broken in college and pros. Manning will break pro records this year. Murray broke SEC records last year. It's the new norm. The game has changed. There are more guys slinging the rock than ever.

You want to go to the Superbowl? Since 2000, your chances are almost equal if you have a first round QB or a non first round QB.

[lcarus]

When has this brokedick ever demonstrated that he can be dependably relied on to stay healthy and guide his team to the playoffs and beyond? LMAO

The Rams were morons for putting their eggs in this pussy's basket.

This. I said it when he was coming out of OU.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Stoops.

[Just Passin' By]

Eh, having a great defense is the main exception (and there are only a few of those), which leaves 4 of the last 20, and 2 of those were 17+ years ago.

Fascinating to watch people trying to spin the "Gotta be a home grown 1st round pick" line into some kind of universal truth. The bullshit excuses that come up are always impressive.

Roughly half the SBs have been won by non-first round picks.
Roughly 1/4 of the SBs have been won by QBs who weren't playing for their original teams.


That's just the way it is.

[Rausch]

**** all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

Well, you don't quit when you find out you drafted a $#itty one.

Hell, you could have had RGIII...

[OldSchool]

Well, you don't quit when you find out you drafted a $#itty one.

Hell, you could have had RGIII...

And still sucked and been stuck with a fragile QB. ROFL

RG3 looks worse than he did as a rookie out there.

[RunKC]

Remember this graphic
http://www.sportsdatallc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/superbowl_qbs_v6_650.png

This graph is not indicative of first rd QB's in general. Several of those QB's won multiple SB's.


For example, there have been 30 first rd QB's drafted from 2000-2010. I'm not counting the 2011-2014 first rd QB's bc they haven't had proper time to be judged (3 years) and it hurts your argument as none have won a SB.

Only 4 out of 30 QB's in that time frame have won a SB. That's 13%. Now you know just how ****ing hard it is to find a good QB.

[Rausch]

And still sucked and been stuck with a fragile QB. ROFL

RG3 looks worse than he did as a rookie out there.

To be fair....yeah.

[OldSchool]

This graph is not indicative of first rd QB's in general. Several of those QB's won multiple SB's.


For example, there have been 30 first rd QB's drafted from 2000-2010. I'm not counting the 2011-2014 first rd QB's bc they haven't had proper time to be judged (3 years) and it hurts your argument as none have won a SB.

Only 4 out of 30 QB's in that time frame have won a SB. That's 13%. Now you know just how ****ing hard it is to find a good QB.

Pretty much. Now what's the success rate overall? Figuring in all drafted QBs?

[Skyy God]

Fascinating to watch people trying to spin the "Gotta be a home grown 1st round pick" line into some kind of universal truth. The bullshit excuses that come up are always impressive.

Roughly half the SBs have been won by non-first round picks.
Roughly 1/4 of the SBs have been won by QBs who weren't playing for their original teams.


That's just the way it is.

A historically lower number of teams in the league pushed more QBs out of the 1st round and created movement at the position (i.e., backup develops behind an entrenched starter). Neither applies with a 32 team, pass-heavy league.

[Just Passin' By]

A historically lower number of teams in the league pushed more QBs out of the 1st round and created movement at the position (i.e., backup develops behind an entrenched starter). Neither applies with a 32 team, pass-heavy league.

And another bullshit excuse is added to the list.


Keep 'em coming. :thumb:

[RunKC]

Glad you asked. Here is the list of the 30.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/402469-1st-round-quarterbacks-of-this-decade-a-recap

Of QB's who haven't won a SB, the one's who are starters today that could push for one are as follows:

Rivers
Ryan
Stafford (very debatable).

Oh and Alex Smith, but he doesn't count. CP doesn't believe in him. So 6, maybe 7, out of 30.

23% chance at best.

[RunKC]

Dalton
Kaep
Wilson
Brady
Brees

These QB's have been regulars in the playoffs and they weren't first rd picks. That's basically HALF of the entire playoff bracket.

It's about who the QB is. But yes drafting one top 50 works best.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Dalton
Kaep
Wilson
Brady
Brees

These QB's have been regulars in the playoffs and they weren't first rd picks. That's basically HALF of the entire playoff bracket.

It's about who the QB is. But yes drafting one top 50 works best.

Progress.

[Bearcat]

Fascinating to watch people trying to spin the "Gotta be a home grown 1st round pick" line into some kind of universal truth. The bullshit excuses that come up are always impressive.

Roughly half the SBs have been won by non-first round picks.
Roughly 1/4 of the SBs have been won by QBs who weren't playing for their original teams.


That's just the way it is.

Meh, that wasn't my line and I wasn't really arguing it.

You pretty much need a QB that can play at an elite level in the playoffs or a great defense that can stop it.

Going back 3 or 4 decades is completely pointless. Not only was it a different game, you're talking about a higher ratio of available QBs per team. By all means though, keep arguing Dawson and Namath like they matter. :shrug:

Dilfer and Johnson obviously benefited from great defenses. It's not that they 'don't count', but they obviously don't win SBs without one.

Look at that graphic... the Chiefs have averaged one QB in the top 3 rounds per decade for the past 30 years, and one since 1993 (and 15 linemen in the first 3 rounds since drafting Croyle).... and you have one team that hit the lottery with Brady, a QB that won with an elite defense, and Kurt Warner. And of course you can see what the strategy has done for the Chiefs.

But yeah, hang your hat on those stats.

[Bearcat]

This graph is not indicative of first rd QB's in general. Several of those QB's won multiple SB's.


For example, there have been 30 first rd QB's drafted from 2000-2010. I'm not counting the 2011-2014 first rd QB's bc they haven't had proper time to be judged (3 years) and it hurts your argument as none have won a SB.

Only 4 out of 30 QB's in that time frame have won a SB. That's 13%. Now you know just how ****ing hard it is to find a good QB.

I think we need some Rain Man stats for that one, considering there were only 11 chances to win a SB in that time frame. I don't think anyone is arguing that it's easy to find one though... they're elite for a reason. The problem is that if you don't try, you're pretty much guaranteed not to find one, unless of course you hit the lottery with a Brady or find a Warner.

[OldSchool]

I think we need some Rain Man stats for that one, considering there were only 11 chances to win a SB in that time frame. I don't think anyone is arguing that it's easy to find one though... they're elite for a reason. The problem is that if you don't try, you're pretty much guaranteed not to find one, unless of course you hit the lottery with a Brady or find a Warner.

There are maybe only 4 elite QBs in this league right now and a couple who are fringe/getting there:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees

You could make an argument for Philip Rivers too, as much as I don't like him. I'll admit that he looked very damn good last year.

Nearly there:

Russel Wilson

That's it. Then you have a bunch of good to very good QBs, some more unproven young guys who show promise but aren't there yet or haven't played enough games (or any), some young guys who look like they're going to suck or be average at best.

Then you have Chad Henne, Brian Hoyer, Shaun Hill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Matt Schaub. Those are, realistically, the only QBs in the league that you have absolutely no chance at winning a Superbowl with, now or in the future, unless you have the 2000 Raven's defense. Judging from pre-season play, I'm on the verge of throwing EJ Manuel's name in there too.

In short, this league has a bunch of good QBs, very few elite QBs, and a handful of guys who shouldn't be starting.

[ndws]

Dawson
Unitas
Plunkett
Theisman
Williams
Hostetler
Young
Favre
Warner
Dilfer
Johnson
Brees

That's 13 out of 48 (27%), a fair number of exceptions to the rule. More than 1 in 4 SBs have been won by QBs who were not playing for the team that drafted them.

to get even more technical, you could add Elway and Eli to that list I suppose.

[Sure-Oz]

Ryan Mallet to the Rams for con pick

[Mr. Laz]

in before the thread gets locked for max posts


nobody puts the 1st round QB zealots in the corner ........... nobody.

[Bearcat]

There are maybe only 4 elite QBs in this league right now and a couple who are fringe/getting there:

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees

You could make an argument for Philip Rivers too, as much as I don't like him. I'll admit that he looked very damn good last year.

Nearly there:

Russel Wilson

That's it. Then you have a bunch of good to very good QBs, some more unproven young guys who show promise but aren't there yet or haven't played enough games (or any), some young guys who look like they're going to suck or be average at best.

Then you have Chad Henne, Brian Hoyer, Shaun Hill, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Matt Schaub. Those are, realistically, the only QBs in the league that you have absolutely no chance at winning a Superbowl with, now or in the future, unless you have the 2000 Raven's defense. Judging from pre-season play, I'm on the verge of throwing EJ Manuel's name in there too.

In short, this league has a bunch of good QBs, very few elite QBs, and a handful of guys who shouldn't be starting.

Yeah, that's the definition of elite. And those four guys combine for 8 appearances in the past 10 SBs (and 9 in 11... and 10 in 13). Only 3 of the last 10 SBs didn't include one of those four guys (and the Steelers happened to win two of them). So, they're pretty important.

Of course, they don't grow on trees, but again, if you don't try, you'll probably never find one.

[Bearcat]

in before the thread gets locked for max posts


nobody puts the 1st round QB zealots in the corner ........... nobody.

Hey, if some people have enjoyed what the Chiefs have done for the past 3 or 4 decades, good for them. I'd rather watch good football, but I'm just weird like that.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Hey, if some people have enjoyed what the Chiefs have done for the past 3 or 4 decades, good for them. I'd rather watch good football, but I'm just weird like that.

:LOL:

[Chiefnj2]

You guys are cruel. Why would anyone want to draft a first round QB only to dash his dreams by playing for KC? Fisher, Allen and Fulton are synonomous with herpes, syphillis and crabs amongst collegiate QBs.

[Just Passin' By]

Yeah, that's the definition of elite. And those four guys combine for 8 appearances in the past 10 SBs (and 9 in 11... and 10 in 13). Only 3 of the last 10 SBs didn't include one of those four guys (and the Steelers happened to win two of them). So, they're pretty important.

Of course, they don't grow on trees, but again, if you don't try, you'll probably never find one.

2 in the first round
2 outside the first round.

That's the thing. No matter how people try to slice it, it's going to come up the same. You don't need the 1st round QB. You don't need the home grown QB.

Suck for Luck and you've got a decade + of likely great QB play and contention. Can't get Luck? Ok, draft a midget in the 3rd round and you can win the SB before Luck ever even gets close.

It's about scouting and fortune. San Diego is a great example of this.

Ryan Leaf - Drew Brees - Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers

[Mr. Laz]

Hey, if some people have enjoyed what the Chiefs have done for the past 3 or 4 decades, good for them. I'd rather watch good football, but I'm just weird like that.
1st round QB doesn't equal success, elite QB play does

There's been like one elite QB drafted in the last decade?

Tom Brady - 2000
Peyton Manning - 1998
Aaron Rodgers - 2005 (barely makes it under the decade mark)
Drew Brees - 2001, 2nd round (elite?)


Ben Roethlisburger - 2004 (even if you consider him truly elite)
Matt Ryan - no
Andrew Luck - maybe he will be
Wilson - 2nd round
Kaepernick - 2nd round
Romo - undrafted

Drafting a 1st round QB doesn't automatically mean anything. Hell most of the 1st round QB's that people around here just HAD to have are busts.

EVERY fan wants an elite QB but this fantasy that grabbing one in the 1st round means you win is bullshit.

[Chief Roundup]

That's 13 out of 48 (27%), a fair number of exceptions to the rule. More than 1 in 4 SBs have been won by QBs who were not playing for the team that drafted them.

Fascinating to watch people trying to spin the "Gotta be a home grown 1st round pick" line into some kind of universal truth. The bullshit excuses that come up are always impressive.

Roughly half the SBs have been won by non-first round picks.
Roughly 1/4 of the SBs have been won by QBs who weren't playing for their original teams.


That's just the way it is.

Surely I have missed something.
Surely you nor anyone else is suggesting that we should go the way of the 27% instead of going with the 73% that have been successful.

[OldSchool]

Surely I have missed something.
Surely you nor anyone else is suggesting that we should go the way of the 27% instead of going with the 73% that have been successful.

73% of 1st round QBs have been successful and won a Superbowl for the team that drafted them? :spock:

[Chief Roundup]

73% of 1st round QBs have been successful and won a Superbowl for the team that drafted them? :spock:

Yeah I didn't get where the correlation was coming from either. I figured I must have missed something in some other posts or something. That is why I was asking for a fill me in. I missed it kind of thing.

[CapsLockKey]

8 out of the last ten Super Bowls winners had 1st round QBs, but when you take out the repeats, it's only been 4 different ones. None of them won without a great defense to lean on. The only guy who did was Brees who is part of the non-1st round club and not even with the team that drafted him.

That said, I'm all for the Chiefs taking their own first round QB. Just don't see the need to exaggerate the importance of it.

[OldSchool]

8 out of the last ten Super Bowls winners had 1st round QBs, but when you take out the repeats, it's only been 4 different ones. None of them won without a great defense to lean on. The only guy who did was Brees who is part of the non-1st round club and not even with the team that drafted him.

That said, I'm all for the Chiefs taking their own first round QB. Just don't see the need to exaggerate the importance of it.

I don't know about Brees winning without defensive help. They were among the best in the league in forcing turn overs right?

I just remember Sharper having 9 INTs and their defense knocking the hell out of Farve all game long.

[Bearcat]

2 in the first round
2 outside the first round.

That's the thing. No matter how people try to slice it, it's going to come up the same. You don't need the 1st round QB. You don't need the home grown QB.

Suck for Luck and you've got a decade + of likely great QB play and contention. Can't get Luck? Ok, draft a midget in the 3rd round and you can win the SB before Luck ever even gets close.

It's about scouting and fortune. San Diego is a great example of this.

Ryan Leaf - Drew Brees - Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers

I've never argued either point.

[OldSchool]

The only thing that remains true is this:

A defense that gets hot late in the season and during the playoffs always trumps any QB play.

What does this mean? Regardless of what you have at QB, you always need a good team around him first if you want to win anything.

[Bearcat]

1st round QB doesn't equal success, elite QB play does

There's been like one elite QB drafted in the last decade?

Tom Brady - 2000
Peyton Manning - 1998
Aaron Rodgers - 2005 (barely makes it under the decade mark)
Drew Brees - 2001, 2nd round (elite?)


Ben Roethlisburger - 2004 (even if you consider him truly elite)
Matt Ryan - no
Andrew Luck - maybe he will be
Wilson - 2nd round
Kaepernick - 2nd round
Romo - undrafted

Drafting a 1st round QB doesn't automatically mean anything. Hell most of the 1st round QB's that people around here just HAD to have are busts.

EVERY fan wants an elite QB but this fantasy that grabbing one in the 1st round means you win is bullshit.

I've said that several times, which is why I've used the first 3 rounds as a guide a few times in this thread. And no one has said it's easy to find/draft an elite QB or that drafting first round QBs guarantees success. It's about TRYING to develop talent at arguably the most important position in sports and not ignoring it for thirty fucking years.

I know CP is very black and white on such things, but FFS, it's not that hard.

[Mr. Laz]

I've said that several times, which is why I've used the first 3 rounds as a guide a few times in this thread. And no one has said it's easy to find/draft an elite QB or that drafting first round QBs guarantees success. It's about TRYING to develop talent at arguably the most important position in sports and not ignoring it for thirty fucking years.

I know CP is very black and white on such things, but FFS, it's not that hard.

trying ... yes

grabbing one in the 1st round of every draft JUST BECAUSE ... no

[Bearcat]

trying ... yes

grabbing one in the 1st round of every draft JUST BECAUSE ... no

Of course, who the hell is arguing that?

[OldSchool]

That's why I find the argument that "Smith is average because he needs a running game. Smith sucks because he needs a good defense to win. Smith sucks because he needs a good offensive line. Smith needs good players around him in order to succeed, therefore he is a shit QB." To be absolutely ludicrous and ignorant.

No QB in the history of the game has been able to win a Superbowl without a great team around them.

Joe Montana wouldn't be Joe Montana without all of the pieces around him from the coaching staff, to the great weapons that he played with, to the 49ers defenses that were among the most dominant in the 80s and in the history of the NFL.

Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, yet he's considered by some people as the greatest QB to ever play the game. So why did the "greatest QB to ever play the game" never win the Superbowl? Do you want to guess the primary reason given? Because he didn't have a great team around him.

[Tombstone RJ]

Bradford's hurt again. He's played above average since he's been drafted. The Rams built around him on O and built a good D in the meantime. **** all of you guys who said drafting a QB solves everything.

:LOL:

[Kaepernick]

You guys are getting so technical you are starting to miss the bigger picture. Whether a guy is picked in the 1st round or 2 picks out of the 1st round is somewhat irrelevant. Whether a team drafts a QB or gets a top free agent like Denver did, is somewhat irrelevant.

The point is, if you are one of the 20 teams that doesn't have a top QB, it is imperative to seek one, and the best method of seeking one is to pick the best prospect you can identify as high in the draft as possible when you get an opportunity to do so.

There are no givens, and there are always exceptions such as Russell Wilson being taken in the 3rd round. Such people usually have some warts (Wilson is very short) that cause GMs to fall back on conventional wisdom rather than just evaluate the talent on his college tape. So it happens that a quality QB falls in the draft.

The reason it GENERALLY takes a 1st round draft pick to acquire a top young QB prospect out of college, is because the collective evaluation of the NFL community tends to do a pretty good job of culling the top raw material from the rest. But the factors that go into becoming a successful NFL QB, let alone a top QB, are so varied, that it is like trying to predict the weather a month from now. There are too many intangible variables once the QB prospect is on the team and being coached.

Does the young QB have adequate coaching? Are the coaches really committed to developing the young QB above all else?

You would think this would be an obvious "yes". It always baffled me how the 49ers could take Alex Smith as the top pick in the draft, showing obvious faith in his ability to be an elite QB, and give him a $50 million contract -- and then NEGLECT his early development. How on God's green earth is this possible? But it happened. It is baffling a franchise would not protect their $50 million investment more jealously.

Some young QBs get eaten up because the GM never invests in offensive line protection and the young QB never gets to practice his craft under ideal conditions while he is developing. He is just running for his life back there.

Or a GM fails to get good receivers for the QB to work with, so the QB fails over and over and the coaches attribute the failure to the young QB, not the poor receivers.

Some just have bad luck and get injured over and over like Bradford. They will give up on him.

There are many factors that are needed for a young QB to become a top QB. He needs the right physical and mental attributes and drive and coach ability and commitment, right out of the gate. He needs smart, wise and committed coaches who won't cheat him on development or short cut his development to "win now", which never works anyway. He needs a strong enough supporting cast in line play and receivers and a running game, to let him execute the offense as the coaches envision.

But all of this starts with the right raw material for a QB prospect. And far and away the best odds of obtaining that raw material is to draft your own QB as high in the 1st round as is necessary to capture him. It is not a be all and end all, but it is the start NEEDED to have a franchise QB.

[saphojunkie]

1st round QB doesn't equal success, elite QB play does

There's been like one elite QB drafted in the last decade?

Tom Brady - 2000
Peyton Manning - 1998
Aaron Rodgers - 2005 (barely makes it under the decade mark)
Drew Brees - 2001, 2nd round (elite?)


Ben Roethlisburger - 2004 (even if you consider him truly elite)
Matt Ryan - no
Andrew Luck - maybe he will be
Wilson - 2nd round
Kaepernick - 2nd round
Romo - undrafted

Drafting a 1st round QB doesn't automatically mean anything. Hell most of the 1st round QB's that people around here just HAD to have are busts.

EVERY fan wants an elite QB but this fantasy that grabbing one in the 1st round means you win is bullshit.

Are you questioning whether or not Drew Brees is ELITE?

Also, he was the #32 pick - would be a first rounder now. #semantics

[Just Passin' By]

I've never argued either point.

I was using your post as a jumping off point, and not as a direct response to you. I should have made that clearer. Sorry.

The whole "Chiefs suck because they didn't draft a QB in round 1" argument has just gotten very stale to me, and I'm trying to kill it (forlorn hope, I know). Too many people around here confuse "best odds" with "only way", either directly or indirectly. It leads to having seemingly every football thread becoming an anti-Chiefs QB thread, and really lessens the football talk around here.

[Just Passin' By]

Of course, who the hell is arguing that?

It's in thread after thread after thread, especially around draft time.

[Bearcat]

That's why I find the argument that "Smith is average because he needs a running game. Smith sucks because he needs a good defense to win. Smith sucks because he needs a good offensive line. Smith needs good players around him in order to succeed, therefore he is a shit QB." To be absolutely ludicrous and ignorant.

No QB in the history of the game has been able to win a Superbowl without a great team around them.

Joe Montana wouldn't be Joe Montana without all of the pieces around him from the coaching staff, to the great weapons that he played with, to the 49ers defenses that were among the most dominant in the 80s and in the history of the NFL.

Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, yet he's considered by some people as the greatest QB to ever play the game. So why did the "greatest QB to ever play the game" never win the Superbowl? Do you want to guess the primary reason given? Because he didn't have a great team around him.

Great/elite/whatever you want to call it QB play can cover up a lot of flaws, as will great defensive play.

I think of it the other way around... great QB or defensive play is a prereq for playoff success, because late in the playoffs, every other team has one or the other. You don't need a great overall team, but the other phases will obviously come into play when you're playing against equally talented QBs and defenses.

[Bearcat]

You guys are getting so technical you are starting to miss the bigger picture. Whether a guy is picked in the 1st round or 2 picks out of the 1st round is somewhat irrelevant. Whether a team drafts a QB or gets a top free agent like Denver did, is somewhat irrelevant.

The point is, is you are one of the 20 teams that doesn't have a top QB, it is imperative to seek one, and the best method of seeking one is to pick the best prospect you can identify as high in the draft as possible when you get an opportunity to do so.

There are no givens, and there are always exceptions such as Russell Wilson being taken in the 3rd round. Such people usually have some warts (Wilson is very short) that cause GMs to fall back on conventional wisdom rather than just evaluate the talent on his college tape. So it happens that a quality QB falls in the draft.

The reason it GENERALLY take a 1st round draft pick to acquire a top young QB prospect out of college, is because the collective evaluation of the NFL community tends to do a pretty good job of culling the top raw material from the rest. But the factors that go into becoming a successful NFL QB, let along a top QB, are so varied, that it is like trying to predict the weather a month from now. There are too many intangible variables once the QB prospect is on the team and being coached.

Does the young QB have adequate coaching? Are the coaches really committed to developing the young QB above all else?

You would think this would be an obvious "yes". It always baffled me how the 49ers could take Alex Smith as the top pick in the draft, showing obvious faith in his ability to be an elite QB, and give him a $50 million contract -- and then NEGLECT his early development. How on God's green earth is this possible? But it happened?

Some young QBs get eaten up because the GM never invests in offensive line protection and the young QB never gets to practice his craft under ideal conditions while he is developing. He is just running for his life back there.

Or a GM fails to get good receivers for the QB to work with, so the QB fails over and over and the coaches attribute the failure to the young QB, not the poor receivers.

Some just have bad luck and get injured over and over like Bradford. They will give up on him.

There are many factors that are needed for a young QB to become a top QB. He needs the right physical and mental attributes and drive and coach ability and commitment, right out of the gate. He needs smart, wise and committed coaches who won't cheat him on development or short cut his development to "win now", which never works anyway. He needs a strong enough supporting cast in line play and receivers and a running game, to let him execute the offense as the coaches envision.

But all of this starts with the right raw material for a QB prospect. And far and away the best odds of obtaining that raw material is to draft your own QB as high in the 1st round as is necessary to capture him. It is not a be all and end all, but it is the start NEEDED to have a franchise QB.

Exactly.

[Discuss Thrower]

I was using your post as a jumping off point, and not as a direct response to you. I should have made that clearer. Sorry.

The whole "Chiefs suck because they didn't draft a QB in round 1" argument has just gotten very stale to me, and I'm trying to kill it (forlorn hope, I know). Too many people around here confuse "best odds" with "only way", either directly or indirectly. It leads to having seemingly every football thread becoming an anti-Chiefs QB thread, and really lessens the football talk around here.

Well there's no point talking KC football this season because success starts and ends with having a QB. If you don't have one that wins games for you then you better be developing one that can.

The Chiefs dont have a guy that can shoulder the team and aren't developing a guy that can either. R

So it's a wasted season.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This is a great year to try. No excuses. I WANT THAT SHIP!

[RealSNR]

Well Rams Fan, it appears you are about to experience a little bit of why we want to TRY taking a QB high in the draft.

You'll be either trying to manage with stopgap veterans or you'll pay out the ass for a Cousins. That's what we've been doing NONSTOP since Blackledge.

I pray for you that your team loses and loses well this season so you can try again at a top QB in the draft. Because I wouldn't wish 4+ years of a Cassel on my worst enemies*

*excluding the Broncos, Raiders, Colts, Chargers, Cowboys, and Falcons because fuck Pioli forever

[Bearcat]

I was using your post as a jumping off point, and not as a direct response to you. I should have made that clearer. Sorry.

The whole "Chiefs suck because they didn't draft a QB in round 1" argument has just gotten very stale to me, and I'm trying to kill it (forlorn hope, I know). Too many people around here confuse "best odds" with "only way", either directly or indirectly. It leads to having seemingly every football thread becoming an anti-Chiefs QB thread, and really lessens the football talk around here.

I think the confusion goes both ways. There's so much hyperbole, black and white arguments, cherry picking, focusing on agendas, and plain idiocy to really see what people are saying... and those who do have good points and aren't just pushing an agenda get lost in all of it and lumped in with one side or the other.

All I know for sure is what the Chiefs have been doing since I was old enough to remember (and several years prior, apparently) hasn't worked, and I'd like for them to try something else.

It's obviously more complicated than saying hey, draft a QB in the first round (or 2nd, or 3rd). You don't just don't pick a year to do it, especially when you're changing coaches/systems every few years. However, those complications don't hold for thirty years.

That said, you can't sit around for another Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, either. You do still have to try, somewhere in between "for the sake of trying" and "sucking for Luck". Finding an excuse every year and looking back over two decades to see that you've only tried once in the first three rounds is bullshit.

[Kaepernick]

Dalton
Kaep
Wilson
Brady
Brees

These QB's have been regulars in the playoffs and they weren't first rd picks. That's basically HALF of the entire playoff bracket.

It's about who the QB is. But yes drafting one top 50 works best.

Dalton was 3 picks out of the 1st round. Kap, 4 picks. Brady is an aberration, an outlier. He and Bart Starr are the only QB 6th rounder to win a super bowl in the 49 year history of the NFL.

The principal still stands.

[Bearcat]

Well there's no point talking KC football this season because success starts and ends with having a QB. If you don't have one that wins games for you then you better be developing one that can.

The Chiefs dont have a guy that can shoulder the team and aren't developing a guy that can either. R

So it's a wasted season.

That would seem more sarcastic if it wasn't for Joe Montana winning the last playoff game for the Chiefs two decades ago.

[Mr. Laz]

Are you questioning whether or not Drew Brees is ELITE?

Also, he was the #32 pick - would be a first rounder now. #semantics

Did you just use a hashtag? #douchebag

[Kaepernick]

Well Rams Fan, it appears you are about to experience a little bit of why we want to TRY taking a QB high in the draft.

You'll be either trying to manage with stopgap veterans or you'll pay out the ass for a Cousins. That's what we've been doing NONSTOP since Blackledge.

I pray for you that your team loses and loses well this season so you can try again at a top QB in the draft. Because I wouldn't wish 4+ years of a Cassel on my worst enemies*

*excluding the Broncos, Raiders, Colts, Chargers, Cowboys, and Falcons because **** Pioli forever

The RAMs organization is smart enough to eat the season for a top draft pick next year, while using the season to develop their young talent for a future Super Bowl push. They will suffer on with Shaun Hill and hope he doesn't win too much... :D

[Just Passin' By]

Dalton was 3 picks out of the 1st round. Kap, 4 picks. Brady is an aberration, an outlier. He and Bart Starr are the only QB 6th rounder to win a super bowl in the 49 year history of the NFL.

The principal still stands.

No, the principle does not still stand. Don't be stupid. You're tossing out example after example showing it doesn't, and then playing the "yeah, but" game with them.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Did you just use a hashtag? #douchebag

LMAO

[Kaepernick]

Well Rams Fan, it appears you are about to experience a little bit of why we want to TRY taking a QB high in the draft.

You'll be either trying to manage with stopgap veterans or you'll pay out the ass for a Cousins. That's what we've been doing NONSTOP since Blackledge.

I pray for you that your team loses and loses well this season so you can try again at a top QB in the draft. Because I wouldn't wish 4+ years of a Cassel on my worst enemies*

*excluding the Broncos, Raiders, Colts, Chargers, Cowboys, and Falcons because **** Pioli forever

The RAMs organization is smart enough to eat the season for a top draft pick next year, while using the season to develop their young talent for a future Super Bowl push. They will suffer on with Shaun Hill and hope he doesn't win too much... :D

But your point is not lost on me. It is grueling to endure bad season after bad season treading water as an also-ran. I don't have your experience, but as a 49ers fan, we did have a nice 10 year run of bottom dwelling suckage to hint at what you KC fans have gone through since your last super bowl.

After 2008, we had a nice unbroken run of losing seasons posting 7, 2, 4, 7, 5, 7, 8 and 6 wins respectively. It was a nice bit if torture to endure, so I have a hint of what you KC fans have gone through. A hint. I won't pretend to know what it is like to go so long without a SB or playoff win.

[Kaepernick]

No, the principle does not still stand. Don't be stupid. You're tossing out example after example showing it doesn't, and then playing the "yeah, but" game with them.

Yes, the principal still stands.

Trying to get a top QB by buying one on the free market is a losing proposition. At some point you have to get off the pot and draft one if you want one. Denver is the exception that proves the rule.

The people using the term "first round" are acting like there is some magic to the first 32 picks of the draft.

The question at hand is, how do you get a top QB? Do you get one by drafting one or buying one? The answer far and away is by drafting one.

The next question is, do you get one by drafting one in or near the 1st round, or in or near the 7th round? The answer is, in or near the 1st round.

So the principal we are all talking about, that answer the question "how do you get a top QB PROSPECT", is GENERALLY to draft one in or as near the 1st round as possible.

That's a fact, Jack.

[Tombstone RJ]

The RAMs organization is smart enough to eat the season for a top draft pick next year, while using the season to develop their young talent for a future Super Bowl push. They will suffer on with Shaun Hill and hope he doesn't win too much... :D

But your point is not lost on me. It is grueling to endure bad season after bad season treading water as an also-ran. I don't have your experience, but as a 49ers fan, we did have a nice 10 year run of bottom dwelling suckage to hint at what you KC fans have gone through since your last super bowl.

After 2008, we had a nice unbroken run of losing seasons posting 7, 2, 4, 7, 5, 7, 8 and 6 wins respectively. It was a nice bit if torture to endure, so I have a hint of what you KC fans have gone through. A hint. I won't pretend to know what it is like to go so long without a SB or playoff win.

What if Hill doesn't suck, what then oh wise one?

[Just Passin' By]

Yes, the principal still stands.

Trying to get a top QB by buying one on the free market is a losing proposition. At some point you have to get off the pot and draft one if you want one. Denver is the exception that proves the rule.


I've already shown the numbers.

1 out of 4 SBs have been won by QBs who were not with the team that drafted them. And that's got nothing to do with Peyton in Denver, as he hasn't won a SB there, and it doesn't count his brother Eli or John Elway, either.

Slightly less than 50% of SBs have been won by QBs who were drafted outside the first round.

Your position is simply wrong.

And it's spelled principle. JFC.

[Tombstone RJ]

Yes, the principal still stands.

Trying to get a top QB by buying one on the free market is a losing proposition. At some point you have to get off the pot and draft one if you want one. Denver is the exception that proves the rule.

The people using the term "first round" are acting like there is some magic to the first 32 picks of the draft.

The question at hand is, how do you get a top QB? Do you get one by drafting one or buying one? The answer far and away is by drafting one.

The next question is, do you get one by drafting one in or near the 1st round, or in or near the 7th round? The answer is, in or near the 1st round.

So the principal we are all talking about, that answer the question "how do you get a top QB PROSPECT", is GENERALLY to draft one in or as near the 1st round as possible.

That's a fact, Jack.

:LOL:

I gues KC didn't get Joe Montana? I guess Rich Gannon never went to the faiders? I guess Kurt Warner never ended up in Arizona? I guess Drew Brees never won a SB with New Orleans?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

So, had we taken Bridgewater, let Axl kick rocks when his deal expires(d), and used some cap to shore up the existing line, would we be better off?

There's still hope!

We can let Axl kick rocks and draft one of three excellent candidates this year, and use those comps to go O-line crazy! No, they won't be high rounders that can get Sacc all moist, but we can do this!

[OldSchool]

Yes, the principal still stands.

Trying to get a top QB by buying one on the free market is a losing proposition. At some point you have to get off the pot and draft one if you want one. Denver is the exception that proves the rule.

The people using the term "first round" are acting like there is some magic to the first 32 picks of the draft.

The question at hand is, how do you get a top QB? Do you get one by drafting one or buying one? The answer far and away is by drafting one.

The next question is, do you get one by drafting one in or near the 1st round, or in or near the 7th round? The answer is, in or near the 1st round.

So the principal we are all talking about, that answer the question "how do you get a top QB PROSPECT", is GENERALLY to draft one in or as near the 1st round as possible.

That's a fact, Jack.
:LOL:

[PunkinDrublic]

I wouldn't worry about it. The Rams will leave St. Louis soon enough and you can change teams.

[Kaepernick]

What if Hill doesn't suck, what then oh wise one?

Then the Chiefs can offer 2 second round picks for him next year.

[Kaepernick]

:LOL:

I gues KC didn't get Joe Montana? I guess Rich Gannon never went to the faiders? I guess Kurt Warner never ended up in Arizona? I guess Drew Brees never won a SB with New Orleans?

Keep citing the exceptions that prove the rule.

[Just Passin' By]

Keep citing the exceptions that prove the rule.

Keep citing a so-called rule with a terrible accuracy rate because it's wrong 1 time in 4 with regards to team-drafted players and just less than 50% of the time with regards to first round picks.


Dumbass.

[OldSchool]

Keep citing the exceptions that prove the rule.

ROFL

[Kaepernick]

Keep citing a so-called rule with a terrible accuracy rate because it's wrong 1 time in 4 with regards to team-drafted players and just less than 50% of the time with regards to first round picks.


Dumbass.

Wow, wrong 1 time in 4. If I won Megalotto 3 times in 4, what a poor man I would be!

[Tombstone RJ]

Keep citing the exceptions that prove the rule.

OK, how about Maddox and the Steelers, or Hasselbeck and the Seahawks or Warren Moon and Houston?

How about your beloved Niners and Jeff Garcia? I mean, Garcia was a bright and shinning moment in a rather lousy time for the Niners franchise.

How about the faiders and Jim Plunkett?

I do agree that the most probably way of consistently winning is to draft and develope a franchise QB, but your blanket statement that finding a FA QB or bringing in a vet QB does not work is simply wrong.

[MahiMike]

Coulda been worse. STL made out in the RGIII deal. Now THERE's a bust!

[Just Passin' By]

Wow, wrong 1 time in 4. If I won Megalotto 3 times in 4, what a poor man I would be!

First, this isn't Megalotto.

Second, it's not wrong 1 time in 4. Go look at the guys who weren't drafted in round 1 and then add in the quys who won for different teams (In other words, add the Bradys to the likes of Dawson, Plunkett and company), and you're wrong more than half the time.

[Kaepernick]

OK, how about Maddox and the Steelers, or Hasselbeck and the Seahawks or Warren Moon and Houston?

How about your beloved Niners and Jeff Garcia? I mean, Garcia was a bright and shinning moment in a rather lousy time for the Niners franchise.

How about the faiders and Jim Plunkett?

I do agree that the most probably way of consistently winning is to draft and develope a franchise QB, but your blanket statement that finding a FA QB or bringing in a vet QB does not work is simply wrong.

Then we agree completely because I never ruled out the exceptions. I said GENERALLY the BEST method is to draft high for your franchise QB. The reason is, there are damn few franchise QBs ever available in free agency or for trade. This is how the 49ers ended up getting 2 second round draft picks for a mediocre game manager.

Denver scored Manning. It is rare as hens teeth to find a franchise QB in free agency or through trade. I never said it can't be done. That is a fine way to go.

See if maybe the Saints will trade Brees to KC or the Pack will trade Rodgers to KC. Get my point?

The vast majority of teams looking for a franchise QB in free agency end up picking from the carousel of recycled rejects hoping they suddenly become franchise QBs under their coaching.

I never said you can't find a franchise QB in free agency, it is just astoundingly rare.

The BEST way for the 20 teams out there looking for franchise QBs to get one is to find a top prospect in the draft when they are bad enough to have a high draft pick. That is the best way.

The point is, Dorsey had Bridgewater at 23 and passed on him. The Vikings were smart enough to take a chance on making him their franchise QB, while the Chiefs have no plan beyond an aging game manager in Alex Smith.

[MahiMike]

Next year's college prospects look better than Bridgewater and Manziel. Bortles is gonna shock everyone.

We may find that Murray > Bridgewater.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Next year's college prospects look better than Bridgewater and Manziel. Bortles is gonna shock everyone.

We may find that Murray > Bridgewater.

Mariota >>>>>>>anything Chiefs have evar done in decades.

[Hammock Parties]

Mariota >>>>>>>anything Chiefs have evar done in decades.

If we pass on a QB after a losing season AGAIN...that may be it for me.

[John Dope]

If we pass on a QB after a losing season AGAIN...that may be it for me.

I really think we would. I don't think Reid would want to **** with a rookie QB and I think they will value keeping him more than anything. He came here because there is a lot of talent. Drafting a first round QB would be at least two years away at the earliest.

[Bearcat]

If we pass on a QB after a losing season AGAIN...that may be it for me.

I'm drawing the line at 4 decades.... just in case.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm already distancing myself in anticipation of the inevitable.

[Kaepernick]

Next year's college prospects look better than Bridgewater and Manziel. Bortles is gonna shock everyone.

We may find that Murray > Bridgewater.

Keep dreaming.

[Kaepernick]

If we pass on a QB after a losing season AGAIN...that may be it for me.

You say that now.

What are you gonna do, become a Patriots fan and root for Bellicheat? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Become a Colts fan?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You say that now.

What are you gonna do, become a Patriots fan and root for Bellicheat? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha?

Become a Colts fan?

Nah, just realize that the NFL hates defense and if the Chiefs don't want to pursue an elite franchise QB, there are other sports options in life, and certainly more deserving Kansas City franchises to spend money on.

[RealSNR]

Become a Colts fan?

We've already had our souls ripped out by the Chiefs.

We may as well sell off our honor as well.

[Marcellus]

Kap you may want to spend more time worrying about your own QB.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I really think we would. I don't think Reid would want to **** with a rookie QB and I think they will value keeping him more than anything. He came here because there is a lot of talent. Drafting a first round QB would be at least two years away at the earliest.

This is not a very talented football team anymore.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It would be funny to watch John Dorsey run a road crew. He could be on a road with potholes big enough to lay mattresses down in and he'd spend all day cold patching a few dime-sized divots of missing concrete.

[Kaepernick]

Kap you may want to spend more time worrying about your own QB.

I don't worry about the 49ers QB. He is going to be just fine. He is easy top 10 material. He just isn't getting there quite as fast as I had hoped.

At the same time time, he took Alex Smith's job half a season sooner than I expected. So he is not far off schedule.

[Kaepernick]

We've already had our souls ripped out by the Chiefs.

We may as well sell off our honor as well.

Don't settle for less than top price.

I like it. The Mercenaries of Chiefs Planet, selling their fan allegiance to the highest bidder :D

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I don't worry about the 49ers QB. He is going to be just fine. He is easy top 10 material. He just isn't getting there quite as fast as I had hoped.

At the same time time, he took Alex Smith's job half a season sooner than I expected. So he is not far off schedule.

:LOL:

[Bearcat]

Nah, just realize that the NFL hates defense and if the Chiefs don't want to pursue an elite franchise QB, there are other sports options in life, and certainly more deserving Kansas City franchises to spend money on.

Yep... for me, it's already about 5th on the list after the NHL, CFB, CBB, and college hockey. I haven't watched any preseason games, but if the new rules ruin the game (even more) like they tried to ruin CBB last season, it might completely fall off the list.

[Marcellus]

I don't worry about the 49ers QB. He is going to be just fine. He is easy top 10 material. He just isn't getting there quite as fast as I had hoped.

At the same time time, he took Alex Smith's job half a season sooner than I expected. So he is not far off schedule.

Yea he looked sharp last year and so far in this preseason.

[Kaepernick]

Yea he looked sharp last year and so far in this preseason.

Talk to me week 5 when he plays your team. We will see how he fares.

[ChiefsCountry]

Talk to me week 5 when he plays your team. We will see how he fares.

Man the Chiefs are going to feel like they are in a Miami hotel room.

[Marcellus]

Talk to me week 5 when he plays your team. We will see how he fares.

Shit, playing our defense isn't going to prove anything.

[Kaepernick]

Shit, playing our defense isn't going to prove anything.

He will have 5 games under his belt by then. Talk to me then.

[Marcellus]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2174215-colin-kaepernick-49ers-offense-beyond-abysmal-in-ominous-preseason-showings

When team owner Jed York, a cadre of investors and the city of Santa Clara built a $1.2 billion stadium for the San Francisco 49ers (http://bleacherreport.com/san-francisco-49ers), they weren't just hoping to host a Super Bowl—they expected to host a Super Bowl contender.
Instead, Colin Kaepernick (http://bleacherreport.com/colin-kaepernick) and the 49ers offense aren't contending for anything but the No. 1 overall pick.
]

LMAO

[Kaepernick]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2174215-colin-kaepernick-49ers-offense-beyond-abysmal-in-ominous-preseason-showings



LMAO


I see I was wrong. I thought you were smarter than to put any stock in either preseason play or Bleacher Report. My bad.

[Marcellus]

I see I was wrong. I thought you were smarter than to put any stock in either preseason play or Bleacher Report. My bad.

Hey I didn't write the article. And no I don't put a ton of stock into preseason.


I lost a $250 bet to Clay last year because I predicted KC to win more games than SF and that SD game losing on a shanked 35 yard FG and then the Indy meltdown screwed me.

I was soooo close to winning that bet.

I guess what I am saying is he wasn't good last year.

[Mr. Laz]

Next year's college prospects look better than Bridgewater and Manziel. Bortles is gonna shock everyone.

We may find that Murray > Bridgewater.

not so far


Bridgewater has looked pretty good.

[RunKC]

If I'm the Texans GM I get this guy next offseason. Especially since they won't be bad enough to get Marriotta or the next QB.

[Tombstone RJ]

Then we agree completely because I never ruled out the exceptions. I said GENERALLY the BEST method is to draft high for your franchise QB. The reason is, there are damn few franchise QBs ever available in free agency or for trade. This is how the 49ers ended up getting 2 second round draft picks for a mediocre game manager.

Denver scored Manning. It is rare as hens teeth to find a franchise QB in free agency or through trade. I never said it can't be done. That is a fine way to go.

See if maybe the Saints will trade Brees to KC or the Pack will trade Rodgers to KC. Get my point?

The vast majority of teams looking for a franchise QB in free agency end up picking from the carousel of recycled rejects hoping they suddenly become franchise QBs under their coaching.

I never said you can't find a franchise QB in free agency, it is just astoundingly rare.

The BEST way for the 20 teams out there looking for franchise QBs to get one is to find a top prospect in the draft when they are bad enough to have a high draft pick. That is the best way.

The point is, Dorsey had Bridgewater at 23 and passed on him. The Vikings were smart enough to take a chance on making him their franchise QB, while the Chiefs have no plan beyond an aging game manager in Alex Smith.

yes, I told everyone on this board that if Bridgewater is there at the bottom of the first, KC HAD TO TAKE HIM. But alas, the kc front office fumbled the draft again.

That being said, your first post I responded to said that Denver is the rare exception to the rule of bringing in a FA QB or an old vet QB to lead the team into to post season and win. I think I've made my point that indeed, a franchise CAN do it and it has been done rather consistently over a long period of time in the NFL.

We shall see if Hoyer works out for Cleveland, but he looked pretty damn good last year when he started for the Browns.

[RealSNR]

If I'm the Texans GM I get this guy next offseason. Especially since they won't be bad enough to get Marriotta or the next QB.

The only purpose Sam Bradford would serve the Texans is as a decorative vegetable in Bill O'Brien's office.

[SAUTO]

nope


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6325656&postcount=8

That's not #1 overall...
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

The game has changed over the last decade. It seems like no one here wants to recognize that. The more it has become a passing league, the less having a first round QB seems to matter as far as Superbowls go.

Whoops THIS might be the dumbest post of the day.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OldSchool]

Shit, playing our defense isn't going to prove anything.

Yeah, seriously, lol. Matt Cassel was able to get an easy TD on our defense. I think any QB in the NFL could rip this secondary apart with they way that they've been playing.

The only way that I don't see that happening is if our pass rush suddenly catches fire for the entire season like the Giants did on both of their playoff runs, which will help mask our secondary deficiencies.

[SAUTO]

I am saying the game has changed. College has become a passing league too. There are a lot more QBs throwing the ball more effectively than there used to be. Pass attempts are way up league wide in college or pro. Passing records are regularly getting broken in college and pros. Manning will break pro records this year. Murray broke SEC records last year. It's the new norm. The game has changed. There are more guys slinging the rock than ever.

You want to go to the Superbowl? Since 2000, your chances are almost equal if you have a first round QB or a non first round QB.
9-6 is almost equal?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Just Passin' By]

9-6 is almost equal?
Posted via Mobile Device

Assuming you only looked at the winners, since you put up 15, not 30:

Warner
Johnson
Brady (*3)
Brees
Wilson


7


Dilfer
Roethlisberger (*2)
P. Manning
E. Manning (*2)
Rodgers
Flacco

8


1 fewer SB win, and 1 fewer different winner. So, yeah, almost equal.

[John Dope]

9-6 is almost equal?
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO Read it again. I have never been talking about Superbowl Winning QBs you dumb fuck. I even clarified that a few posts ago. I am talking about QBs who started in the Superbowl since 2000. Stick to pointing out incorrect word usage dude. You are good at that.

[Rams Fan]

Well Rams Fan, it appears you are about to experience a little bit of why we want to TRY taking a QB high in the draft.

You'll be either trying to manage with stopgap veterans or you'll pay out the ass for a Cousins. That's what we've been doing NONSTOP since Blackledge.

I pray for you that your team loses and loses well this season so you can try again at a top QB in the draft. Because I wouldn't wish 4+ years of a Cassel on my worst enemies*

*excluding the Broncos, Raiders, Colts, Chargers, Cowboys, and Falcons because **** Pioli forever

Tony Banks, Marc Bulger, Gus Frerotte, TrINT Green.

[John Dope]

Tony Banks, Marc Bulger, Gus Frerotte, TrINT Green.

Maybe you can trade for Cousins? That would be a good fit.

[RealSNR]

Tony Banks, Marc Bulger, Gus Frerotte, TrINT Green.

http://www.deanfetzer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/life_brian_dungeon.png

SNR: You lucky bastard.

Rams Fan: Who's that?

SNR: You lucky, lucky bastard.

Rams Fan: What?

SNR: Proper little franchise, aren't we?

Rams Fan: What do you mean?

SNR: You must be following the team blueprint, eh?

Rams Fan: Following the team blueprint? You saw my #1 overall QB go down!

SNR: Ohh! What wouldn't I give to have my #1 overall QB go down! I sometimes lie awake at night dreaming of having my #1 overall QB go down!

Rams Fan: Well, it's not exactly encouraging, is it? We were starting Marc Bulger before this!

SNR: Marc Bulger! Ooh oooh oh oh. My idea of heaven is to start Marc Bulger at QB... just for a few games. The football gods must think the sun shines out o' your arse, sonny.

Rams Fan: Oh, lay off me. I've had a hard time!

SNR: YOU'VE had a hard time?! I've had to watch Croyle, Huard, and Cassel for 6 years! They only replaced all that shit last year! So, don't you come 'rou--

Rams Fan: All right. All right.

SNR: The football gods must think you're Lord God Almighty.

Rams Fan: What will they do to me?

SNR: Oh, you'll probably get away with tanking the season.

Rams Fan: TANKING THE SEASON?!

SNR: Yeah, first overall pick.

Rams Fan: Get away with tanking the season?! It's--

SNR: Best thing the NFL has ever done for us.

Rams Fan: What?!

SNR: Oh, yeah. If we weren't allowed to tank the season, this league would be in a right bloody mess.

Rams Fan: Dan!

SNR: Fuck it up, I say!

Rams Fan: Dan!

SNR: Rape some sense into them!

Dan Snyder: What do you want?

Rams Fan: I want you to trade me Kirk Cousins.

Daniel Snyder: Ha! *ptoo*

Rams Fan: Aah!

SNR: Oh, look at that! Bloody favoritism!

Dan Snyder: Shut up, you!

SNR: Sorry!

SNR: Now, take my case. They traded for Cassel five years ago. Every couple of years, they draft some shlub in the 5th round, then they trade for another backup, which I regard as very fair, in view of what I done. And, if nothing else, it's taught me to respect the NFL draft process, and it's taught me... that you'll never win anything in this league, unless you're prepared to take a risk on a QB for a high round pick!

[Gadzooks]

Since when is Shaun Hill a better QB than Kellen Clemons?
BTW - Oddly, it seems the KC cupcake schedule is off to an early start. The Chiefs are the Rams first AFC West opponent. If the trend continues the Rams will find a future HOFer the next week. Good news for Mr. Rams Fan, (other than the fact that it will be week 9)

[Kaepernick]

yes, I told everyone on this board that if Bridgewater is there at the bottom of the first, KC HAD TO TAKE HIM. But alas, the kc front office fumbled the draft again.

That being said, your first post I responded to said that Denver is the rare exception to the rule of bringing in a FA QB or an old vet QB to lead the team into to post season and win. I think I've made my point that indeed, a franchise CAN do it and it has been done rather consistently over a long period of time in the NFL.

We shall see if Hoyer works out for Cleveland, but he looked pretty damn good last year when he started for the Browns.

When the Chiefs turn came to draft, I honestly thought Dorsey would snatch up Bridgewater without having to ponder it. I was stunned they didn't take him. He wasn't worth a top 15 pick, but in the lower half, he is a very decent gamble on grooming into a franchise QB and Alex is one of the nicest and best QBs at helping the kids behind him. He is a great mentor.

There would be no downside there. If Bridgewater fails, you still have a serviceable journeyman in Alex and you are paying Bridgewater nothing, so no harm, no foul.

If Bridgewater shows promise, then you cut Alex and his $15 million/year free and you've got a cheap QB who is better than the journeyman you jettisoned.

There is no down side. No disrespect to Ford, but I would have leaped on Bridgewater at 23.

It didn't help you had no 2nd round pick. And Dorsey probably went BPA from his board. But franchise QB is always a NEED if you don't have one. You have to hope your GM doesn't come to regret passing on Bridgewater. I think he will.

[Kaepernick]

http://www.deanfetzer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/life_brian_dungeon.png

SNR: You lucky bastard.

Rams Fan: Who's that?

SNR: You lucky, lucky bastard.

Rams Fan: What?

SNR: Proper little franchise, aren't we?

Rams Fan: What do you mean?

SNR: You must be following the team blueprint, eh?

Rams Fan: Following the team blueprint? You saw my #1 overall QB go down!

SNR: Ohh! What wouldn't I give to have my #1 overall QB go down! I sometimes lie awake at night dreaming of having my #1 overall QB go down!

Rams Fan: Well, it's not exactly encouraging, is it? We were starting Marc Bulger before this!

SNR: Marc Bulger! Ooh oooh oh oh. My idea of heaven is to start Marc Bulger at QB... just for a few games. The football gods must think the sun shines out o' your arse, sonny.

Rams Fan: Oh, lay off me. I've had a hard time!

SNR: YOU'VE had a hard time?! I've had to watch Croyle, Huard, and Cassel for 6 years! They only replaced all that shit last year! So, don't you come 'rou--

Rams Fan: All right. All right.

SNR: The football gods must think you're Lord God Almighty.

Rams Fan: What will they do to me?

SNR: Oh, you'll probably get away with tanking the season.

Rams Fan: TANKING THE SEASON?!

SNR: Yeah, first overall pick.

Rams Fan: Get away with tanking the season?! It's--

SNR: Best thing the NFL has ever done for us.

Rams Fan: What?!

SNR: Oh, yeah. If we weren't allowed to tank the season, this league would be in a right bloody mess.

Rams Fan: Dan!

SNR: **** it up, I say!

Rams Fan: Dan!

SNR: Rape some sense into them!

Dan Snyder: What do you want?

Rams Fan: I want you to trade me Kirk Cousins.

Daniel Snyder: Ha! *ptoo*

Rams Fan: Aah!

SNR: Oh, look at that! Bloody favoritism!

Dan Snyder: Shut up, you!

SNR: Sorry!

SNR: Now, take my case. They traded for Cassel five years ago. Every couple of years, they draft some shlub in the 5th round, then they trade for another backup, which I regard as very fair, in view of what I done. And, if nothing else, it's taught me to respect the NFL draft process, and it's taught me... that you'll never win anything in this league, unless you're prepared to take a risk on a QB for a high round pick!

Brilliant adaptation. SIMPLY BRILLIANT. If I could Rep you 40 times 40, I would!

Well done, sir. :thumb:

[listopencil]

Is this the official " you guys saying taking a QB in the first solves everything" thread?Because if it is you need four asterisks on the other end of the title.

[Hammock Parties]

When the Chiefs turn came to draft, I honestly thought Dorsey would snatch up Bridgewater without having to ponder it. I was stunned they didn't take him. He wasn't worth a top 15 pick, but in the lower half, he is a very decent gamble on grooming into a franchise QB and Alex is one of the nicest and best QBs at helping the kids behind him. He is a great mentor.

There would be no downside there. If Bridgewater fails, you still have a serviceable journeyman in Alex and you are paying Bridgewater nothing, so no harm, no foul.

If Bridgewater shows promise, then you cut Alex and his $15 million/year free and you've got a cheap QB who is better than the journeyman you jettisoned.

There is no down side. No disrespect to Ford, but I would have leaped on Bridgewater at 23.

It didn't help you had no 2nd round pick. And Dorsey probably went BPA from his board. But franchise QB is always a NEED if you don't have one. You have to hope your GM doesn't come to regret passing on Bridgewater. I think he will.

We will regret passing on Geno AND Bridgewater.

They are both going to be good.

[rico]

http://www.deanfetzer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/life_brian_dungeon.png

SNR: You lucky bastard.

Rams Fan: Who's that?

SNR: You lucky, lucky bastard.

Rams Fan: What?

SNR: Proper little franchise, aren't we?

Rams Fan: What do you mean?

SNR: You must be following the team blueprint, eh?

Rams Fan: Following the team blueprint? You saw my #1 overall QB go down!

SNR: Ohh! What wouldn't I give to have my #1 overall QB go down! I sometimes lie awake at night dreaming of having my #1 overall QB go down!

Rams Fan: Well, it's not exactly encouraging, is it? We were starting Marc Bulger before this!

SNR: Marc Bulger! Ooh oooh oh oh. My idea of heaven is to start Marc Bulger at QB... just for a few games. The football gods must think the sun shines out o' your arse, sonny.

Rams Fan: Oh, lay off me. I've had a hard time!

SNR: YOU'VE had a hard time?! I've had to watch Croyle, Huard, and Cassel for 6 years! They only replaced all that shit last year! So, don't you come 'rou--

Rams Fan: All right. All right.

SNR: The football gods must think you're Lord God Almighty.

Rams Fan: What will they do to me?

SNR: Oh, you'll probably get away with tanking the season.

Rams Fan: TANKING THE SEASON?!

SNR: Yeah, first overall pick.

Rams Fan: Get away with tanking the season?! It's--

SNR: Best thing the NFL has ever done for us.

Rams Fan: What?!

SNR: Oh, yeah. If we weren't allowed to tank the season, this league would be in a right bloody mess.

Rams Fan: Dan!

SNR: **** it up, I say!

Rams Fan: Dan!

SNR: Rape some sense into them!

Dan Snyder: What do you want?

Rams Fan: I want you to trade me Kirk Cousins.

Daniel Snyder: Ha! *ptoo*

Rams Fan: Aah!

SNR: Oh, look at that! Bloody favoritism!

Dan Snyder: Shut up, you!

SNR: Sorry!

SNR: Now, take my case. They traded for Cassel five years ago. Every couple of years, they draft some shlub in the 5th round, then they trade for another backup, which I regard as very fair, in view of what I done. And, if nothing else, it's taught me to respect the NFL draft process, and it's taught me... that you'll never win anything in this league, unless you're prepared to take a risk on a QB for a high round pick!

LMAO I love Life of Brian.

[Kaepernick]

We will regret passing on Geno AND Bridgewater.

They are both going to be good.

There will be no way to evaluate if Geno could have been any good. NY will ruin him. His detractors will say he was a bad prospect. His supporters will say he was ruined by poor development. his supporters will be right, but that does not necessarily mean his detractors were wrong.

We won't know.

[Hammock Parties]

Shit, I haven't seen that movie in years. Going to have to watch it this week.

[Hammock Parties]

There will be no way to evaluate if Geno could have been any good. NY will ruin him. His detractors will say he was a bad prospect. His supporters will say he was ruined by poor development. his supporters will be right, but that does not necessarily mean his detractors were wrong.

We won't know.

He looks good this year, and the Jets are building a very good team around him. The OL is really good.

I think he will be at least average.

[OldSchool]

He looks good this year, and the Jets are building a very good team around him. The OL is really good.

I think he will be at least average.

Wait, what? I thought QBs didn't need a good team around them, a franchise LT, and a good defense in order to succeed in this league?:)

[Hammock Parties]

It can't hurt...especially for a young QB.

Older, experienced veteran QBs should be able to compensate for weaknesses around them.

Or they could just crash and burn. That'd be great.

[OldSchool]

It can't hurt...especially for a young QB.

Older, experienced veteran QBs should be able to compensate for weaknesses around them.

Or they could just crash and burn. That'd be great.

So Falcons with Matt Ryan last year, whom a lot of people on here thinks is a "franchise" QB, he was fine without Julio Jones right? He was fine without his LT right? After all, franchise vet QBs don't need a good OL, defense, and WR core to play well and win games, right?

[Hammock Parties]

I'm not sure what your point is. Put Alex Smith on that Falcons team and they'd suck just as hard.

[OldSchool]

I'm not sure what your point is. Put Alex Smith on that Falcons team and they'd suck just as hard.

My point is simple, you just keep ignoring the simple fact that every QB needs a good team and system around them in order to succeed and win championships. That fact is not exclusive to Alex Smith, which all of you like to use against him for some reason when it applies to virtually every QB who has ever played the game. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you anymore cause you obviously lack the football knowledge to even begin to understand how an offense functions. ROFL

[Mav]

You know, this thread makes me laugh and cry.

Tim couch, brady quinn, brandon Weeden, and johnny back up......

It's not always great drafting ONE in the first.