Obviously, hindsight is 50/50 (!!), but if the 49ers could do it all over again:

[Hootie]

and still decided they wanted to trade Alex Smith, and the entire league saw what Alex Smith was capable of up until this point using their 50/50 hindsight (!!), what compensation would the 49ers receive for Smith?

I say 2 1st round picks, minimum.

[KCrockaholic]

20/20 derr derrp

[MotherfuckerJones]

Put down the meth Walter White.

[Hootie]

20/20 derr derrp

lexicon, understand it

[Hammock Parties]

It would appear a top 5 defense follows Alex Smith wherever he goes. That's definitely worth 2 first-round picks.

[KCrockaholic]

lexicon, understand it

AIDS farm. Go.

[Bearcat]

He's done something with the Chiefs that he hadn't done in his last couple of seasons with the 49ers?

[Lex Luthor]

It would appear a top 5 defense follows Alex Smith wherever he goes. That's definitely worth 2 first-round picks.

It's amazing how a QB who doesn't turn the ball over helps a defense. Glad you're finally realizing that.

[Hootie]

people are obsessed with numbers

Alex Smith, for about 4 or 5 weeks in a row now, has played so efficiently on offense it's hard to explain. He's not going to put up Aaron Rodgers numbers, but he is very effective at what he does.

I don't think anyone can argue that we'd have more wins with Big Ben, Rivers, Eli, Matt Ryan, Cutler, Stafford, etc (2nd tier QBs), and I think you may even be able to argue some of those guys we'd have even less wins with considering our weaknesses heavily play into some of their weaknesses.

So we got a 2nd tier QB, a guy who probably fluctuates between the 7th - 12th best NFL QB on a week to week basis, for 2 measly 2nd round picks.

What a flat out rape steal of a trade.

[KCrockaholic]

It's weird how the 49ers defense hasn't been quite as good without Alex Smith.

[Hootie]

I wish Andy Reid would hire me to be his clock management guy...

but I am having a love affair with Dorsey/Reid right now. Wow. Clark seems to have finally hit a HR.

[Hoover]

I always thought that Alex was the better QB. Look, I know you want the video game QB who is a stat machine, but Kaep is a gimmick QB, and once the rest of the NFL catches on life with him will be difficult.

The problem with the 49ers is Kaep, its what happens when Harbaugh leaves to go to Michigan? That team is going to fall apart. It should have been dynasty. Instead its a flash in the pan.

[Valiant]

When he wins a playoff game then lets think about talking about it..

[lcarus]

I wish Andy Reid would hire me to be his clock management guy...

but I am having a love affair with Dorsey/Reid right now. Wow. Clark seems to have finally hit a HR.

A lot of people shit all over Clark and said ownership was the #1 issue with the Chiefs. I've seen him do everything in his power to make this team a winner....twice.

[Dylan]

Obviously, hindsight is 50/50 (!!), but if the 49ers could do it all over again:
They traded the wrong quarterback.

[Deberg_1990]

But those two 2nd round picks would have been 10 year starters and future hall of famers!


/CP

[Ming the Merciless]

Oh god....

The 49ers did great on the trade and with what happened after.

Were doing pretty well right now but your track record of jinxing shit (0mg GIANTS FAILED by not starting madbum) tells me you're probably premature in ejaculating this thread.

This was a fine trade for the Niners...it might work out for us too, it seems.

Unless you jinx it

[Hammock Parties]

Just out of curiosity...who ARE the top 12 QBs, Hootie, if Alex is in that group?

You don't even have to list them in order. Please tell me.

[RealSNR]

Yeah, if that were possible, they'd probably ask for more.

And if my mom had three wheels, she'd be a tricycle.

[LoneWolf]

And if my mom had three wheels, she'd be a tricycle.

She's just a whore instead. :D

[Hootie]

Just out of curiosity...who ARE the top 12 QBs, Hootie, if Alex is in that group?

You don't even have to list them in order. Please tell me.

The obvious: Manning, Brady, Luck, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson

The Alex Smith tier: Cutler, Manning, Rivers, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Dalton, Flacco

Guys in the Alex Smith tier who I'd struggle taking over Alex Smith for this Chiefs team: all of them sans Rivers/Roeth

I think I could reasonably conclude that Alex Smith is the 9th most valuable QB in the NFL.

[O.city]

Wilson has regressed this year for some reason. Tough to put him that high

[KCrockaholic]

Wilson has regressed this year for some reason. Tough to put him that high

I heard he wasn't black enough.

[Hootie]

I also picked against the Steelers today and HATE the Ravens.

The Steelers are SUPER overrated right now because they had one good showing against a Colts team who, for some inexplicable reason, seems to take a few weeks off every year.

Big Ben holds the ball too long. He'd be a nightmare on the Chiefs. And he's obviously a damn good QB.

[LoneWolf]

Wait, I thought Kaepernick was elite. I seem to remember a certain poster named Hootie saying he was one of the next great QBs.

[Hootie]

I've sold 35% of my Kaepernick stock and will not be rebuying until further notice.

[TimBone]

I wouldn't be willing to offer up two firsts, but I'm now fine with the two second rounders.

[Reerun_KC]

Just out of curiosity...who ARE the top 12 QBs, Hootie, if Alex is in that group?

You don't even have to list them in order. Please tell me.
So you can nitpick with your qb evaluation skills? ROFL

Priceless.

[Direckshun]

I would probably have still traded Alex Smith if I were Harbaugh.

[KCrockaholic]

I would probably have still traded Alex Smith if I were Harbaugh.

Would you have forced him to lose his starting job midway through the season?

[Ming the Merciless]

You just cursed the ravens lol

Your reverse mojo is strong

[LoneWolf]

I've sold 35% of my Kaepernick stock and will not be rebuying until further notice.

Nice honest answer. The ending of the 49ers game today was hilarious.

[O.city]

Wouldn't trade 2 2nd rounders still, way too valuable.....:)

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Kap is dogshit.

[Hootie]

Nice honest answer. The ending of the 49ers game today was hilarious.

I can admit when I'm wrong. He definitely has the talent, but if he can't learn how to play from the pocket, he's toast.

[Mav]

Kap is dogshit.
Glad others are seeing it.

[LoneWolf]

Wouldn't trade 2 2nd rounders still, way too valuable.....:)

You're right. You never know when they are going to turn into a Dexter McCluster.

[tk13]

Wait, I thought Kaepernick was elite. I seem to remember a certain poster named Hootie saying he was one of the next great QBs.

One day Hootie will travel across the kingdom on horseback and lay down at my feet and admit that Kaepernick and Wilson are not as good at the QB position as Andrew Luck. And it will be a glorious day. The finest meats and cheeses for everyone.

[Shekelsteinberg]

Kaepernick is a meme qb

[LoneWolf]

Sweet. I like meats and cheeses.

[O.city]

You're right. You never know when they are going to turn into a Dexter McCluster.

Hehe

[seamonster]

One day Hootie will travel across the kingdom on horseback and lay down at my feet and admit that Kaepernick and Wilson are not as good at the QB position as Andrew Luck. And it will be a glorious day. The finest meats and cheeses for everyone.

How many superbowls does Luck have? And Wilson's still putting up obscene numbes at his position even with a team of backstabbers, crybabies and sling blades.

[Hootie]

One day Hootie will travel across the kingdom on horseback and lay down at my feet and admit that Kaepernick and Wilson are not as good at the QB position as Andrew Luck. And it will be a glorious day. The finest meats and cheeses for everyone.

you're halfway there

and probably, at this point, only stubborness is keeping me from admitting Luck > Wilson

[kysirsoze]

How many superbowls does Luck have? And Wilson's still putting up obscene numbes at his position even with a team of backstabbers, crybabies and sling blades.

Good argument. Thanks.

[tk13]

How many superbowls does Luck have? And Wilson's still putting up obscene numbes at his position even with a team of backstabbers, crybabies and sling blades.

You give Luck the same defense Wilson has had, and watch what happens. You watch. Luck might have 2 Super Bowls already. We've had this argument for two years running now. Luck has dragged that team to the playoffs two years in a row. There may be 5 or 6 guys who can legitimately carry their team, and he's already one of them.

The funny thing is Chiefs fans sat there and watched it first hand in the playoffs last year, and some of them still don't believe it. Wilson is a great QB, but Luck is a robot built to play the position. Still turns it over too much for my liking, but he's asked to do more than a lot of other QBs.

[Exoter175]

There's a lot of love and hate on both sides of the fence here with Alex Smith, but you have to respect the fact that he's good at this offense, makes very, very few mistakes, and he's coachable, and a gamer.

He might not be able to carry you on his arm, though the Colts playoff game completely disagrees because he played lights out and our defense is what let that game loose, but he's surely not going to lose you many games either.

In all actuality, Alex Smith is like THE PERFECT fit for this team in the following sense.

1: We are going to put a solid defense on the field, year in and year out, despite an off season collapse of epic proportions.
2: We are going to put a solid run offense on the field, year in and year out. Despite Reid's penchant for passing the football on every possible play, you can't deny the talent of Charles, Davis, and Thomas in the backfield.
3: For a QB as efficient as Alex in this offense, who tries to be as high percentage as possible, its going to make for close games with average scoring, and strong defenses and run games week in and week out. The catch is, however, the offensive coordinating being able to key in on certain matchups for you to execute to have a better chance at out scoring the opponents, and we're pretty solid there.

Now you stick him into this situation with what seems like a solid overall Defense and solid overall Offensive Running game for the next 5 years or so, and as an organization you literally need NOTHING from your QB play in terms of improvement to win games. I don't mean that like Alex can't improve, or that this offensive playcalling couldn't take a few more chances, but with how efficient we are at driving down the field, running the clock out, and converting drives into points, you pretty much have to have one of the worst games of your life or have a collapse of sorts on either side of the lines to lose these games. Which is exactly what the Chiefs need, because it allows you to BUILD on what we have, which is a steady offense, and a steady defense, as of the halfway point of this season. We are now 16-7 under Alex Smith and Andy Reid in the regular season through 1.5 years. That's a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the previous decade's iterations of revolving door tenures.

Now, if you ask me what I'd give up for that sort of improvement, I'd deal two seconds in a heartbeat and consider it a steal. This guy went 1.1 in his draft class, and there was certainly a reason for it. He may not have been the historical best (to date) from that class, but he certainly hasn't been anything below consideration of an above average talent, especially in the last 4 years or so since he's had a chance to mature in the typical offenses he's been thrown into, after a literal revolving door of coordinators before that.

Now we keep looking at the 2013 and 2014 drafts going "omg look at the potential we've given up", but if you look at the last few 2nd round picks we've had over the years, is it really that bad to have an upgrade of Alex Smith over Matt Cassel? Jeff Allen(2012), Rodney Hudson(2011), Dex/Arenas (2010).

Hell in 2009 we didn't even have our 2nd rounder because we gave it for Cassel, and the Pats ended up taking Chung!

Point is, we gave up 1 2nd rounder for a "shot in the dark" QB, and then 4 years later traded two of them for a more proven game manager type, who was a direct improvement over Cassel. I still don't consider that overspending, and I think a lot of teams would have given up more, and many teams at least equal positioning, and the only way the Niners could "win" in that trade IMO, is if Kaep plays better (he hasn't) and they win in the draft (not so sure yet). The upside is that they converted a lot of picks, into more picks, but to what extent? They're about to miss the playoffs, and some of those picks are still waiting to work out for them, meanwhile our 2nd round picks from 2013 and 2014 have netted a 16-7 starter who went to the pro bowl last year, and has scored 35 touchdowns in 23 games, with only 15 turnovers (stats include rushing touchdown and fumbles in turnover numbers).

I'm happy with that, and I know a lot of other guys will disagree because we should have a "manning-esque" QB here, but the truth is, we shouldn't. This offense isn't designed for a Brady, Manning, or Brees, certainly for a Rodgers, but that's about it.

More importantly, through the first 8 games last year, we saw Alex face some backup QB's with our stout defense pre-injury where we didn't really even need to throw it, and his numbers were good for winning games, but statistically pretty average. In the late half of the season, he really turned it on and while we lost more games than the first half of the season (going 3-4 down the last 7 games prior to the week 17 bench game), we faced tougher opponents and lost a lot of guys to injury.

Now flip the script to this year. We've got a pretty tough schedule, injuries EVERYWHERE, and a completely DECIMATED offensive line compared to last year, but you know what? Alex has shown improvement, we've won tough games and beaten some solid opponents, and lost to solid opponents in tough games and/or games we shot ourselves in the foot on and lost ourselves. The stats, however, backup the idea that Alex has improved,

Through the halfway mark, having faced teams like the Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Niners, and Dolphins, all "teams in the hunt" or at/near the top of their divisions, Alex is on pace for about the same number of touchdowns and interceptions (give or take a few), fewer fumbles lost (super important considering our defenses lack of takeaways this year), but his passing percentage is up 6.5%!!!!!!! That's huge! On top of that his average is up .4 yards per attempt, yet he's on par for almost the exact same attempts and yards as last year.

What does that tell you? Well, it should tell you that he's been more efficient in this offense in terms of higher percentage passes yielding slightly more yardage. Which is UNREAL when you consider we're either at the top or near the top of the league in DROPS. Imagine the numbers Alex would have if his receivers could CATCH a ball or GET OPEN.

Now, I know Alex will never go to the HoF or anything, but I"m at least satisfied, happy, and ecstatic about the value we've gotten in that trade, and the production in this offense. I truly believe that Reid and Smith are a happy marriage in this offense, and for all intents and purposes, this trade has worked out in spades for this team.

[Lex Luthor]

/thread

[kysirsoze]

There's a lot of love and hate on both sides of the fence here with Alex Smith, but you have to respect the fact that he's good at this offense, makes very, very few mistakes, and he's coachable, and a gamer.

He might not be able to carry you on his arm, though the Colts playoff game completely disagrees because he played lights out and our defense is what let that game loose, but he's surely not going to lose you many games either.

In all actuality, Alex Smith is like THE PERFECT fit for this team in the following sense.

1: We are going to put a solid defense on the field, year in and year out, despite an off season collapse of epic proportions.
2: We are going to put a solid run offense on the field, year in and year out. Despite Reid's penchant for passing the football on every possible play, you can't deny the talent of Charles, Davis, and Thomas in the backfield.
3: For a QB as efficient as Alex in this offense, who tries to be as high percentage as possible, its going to make for close games with average scoring, and strong defenses and run games week in and week out. The catch is, however, the offensive coordinating being able to key in on certain matchups for you to execute to have a better chance at out scoring the opponents, and we're pretty solid there.

Now you stick him into this situation with what seems like a solid overall Defense and solid overall Offensive Running game for the next 5 years or so, and as an organization you literally need NOTHING from your QB play in terms of improvement to win games. I don't mean that like Alex can't improve, or that this offensive playcalling couldn't take a few more chances, but with how efficient we are at driving down the field, running the clock out, and converting drives into points, you pretty much have to have one of the worst games of your life or have a collapse of sorts on either side of the lines to lose these games. Which is exactly what the Chiefs need, because it allows you to BUILD on what we have, which is a steady offense, and a steady defense, as of the halfway point of this season. We are now 16-7 under Alex Smith and Andy Reid in the regular season through 1.5 years. That's a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the previous decade's iterations of revolving door tenures.

Now, if you ask me what I'd give up for that sort of improvement, I'd deal two seconds in a heartbeat and consider it a steal. This guy went 1.1 in his draft class, and there was certainly a reason for it. He may not have been the historical best (to date) from that class, but he certainly hasn't been anything below consideration of an above average talent, especially in the last 4 years or so since he's had a chance to mature in the typical offenses he's been thrown into, after a literal revolving door of coordinators before that.

Now we keep looking at the 2013 and 2014 drafts going "omg look at the potential we've given up", but if you look at the last few 2nd round picks we've had over the years, is it really that bad to have an upgrade of Alex Smith over Matt Cassel? Jeff Allen(2012), Rodney Hudson(2011), Dex/Arenas (2010).

Hell in 2009 we didn't even have our 2nd rounder because we gave it for Cassel, and the Pats ended up taking Chung!

Point is, we gave up 1 2nd rounder for a "shot in the dark" QB, and then 4 years later traded two of them for a more proven game manager type, who was a direct improvement over Cassel. I still don't consider that overspending, and I think a lot of teams would have given up more, and many teams at least equal positioning, and the only way the Niners could "win" in that trade IMO, is if Kaep plays better (he hasn't) and they win in the draft (not so sure yet). The upside is that they converted a lot of picks, into more picks, but to what extent? They're about to miss the playoffs, and some of those picks are still waiting to work out for them, meanwhile our 2nd round picks from 2013 and 2014 have netted a 16-7 starter who went to the pro bowl last year, and has scored 35 touchdowns in 23 games, with only 15 turnovers (stats include rushing touchdown and fumbles in turnover numbers).

I'm happy with that, and I know a lot of other guys will disagree because we should have a "manning-esque" QB here, but the truth is, we shouldn't. This offense isn't designed for a Brady, Manning, or Brees, certainly for a Rodgers, but that's about it.

More importantly, through the first 8 games last year, we saw Alex face some backup QB's with our stout defense pre-injury where we didn't really even need to throw it, and his numbers were good for winning games, but statistically pretty average. In the late half of the season, he really turned it on and while we lost more games than the first half of the season (going 3-4 down the last 7 games prior to the week 17 bench game), we faced tougher opponents and lost a lot of guys to injury.

Now flip the script to this year. We've got a pretty tough schedule, injuries EVERYWHERE, and a completely DECIMATED offensive line compared to last year, but you know what? Alex has shown improvement, we've won tough games and beaten some solid opponents, and lost to solid opponents in tough games and/or games we shot ourselves in the foot on and lost ourselves. The stats, however, backup the idea that Alex has improved,

Through the halfway mark, having faced teams like the Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Niners, and Dolphins, all "teams in the hunt" or at/near the top of their divisions, Alex is on pace for about the same number of touchdowns and interceptions (give or take a few), fewer fumbles lost (super important considering our defenses lack of takeaways this year), but his passing percentage is up 6.5%!!!!!!! That's huge! On top of that his average is up .4 yards per attempt, yet he's on par for almost the exact same attempts and yards as last year.

What does that tell you? Well, it should tell you that he's been more efficient in this offense in terms of higher percentage passes yielding slightly more yardage. Which is UNREAL when you consider we're either at the top or near the top of the league in DROPS. Imagine the numbers Alex would have if his receivers could CATCH a ball or GET OPEN.

Now, I know Alex will never go to the HoF or anything, but I"m at least satisfied, happy, and ecstatic about the value we've gotten in that trade, and the production in this offense. I truly believe that Reid and Smith are a happy marriage in this offense, and for all intents and purposes, this trade has worked out in spades for this team.

WHOA. TLDR.

[The Bad Guy]

Kaepernick hasn't grown as a QB at all. He doesn't go through progressions, gets happy feet and if he's not running, he's really struggling.

I loved him 2 years ago, but I think he peaked in the 12 playoffs.

[TimBone]

Nice post, Exoter. I do disagree on one point. There is not an offense out there that is NOT designed for a Manning/Brady type.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I always thought that Alex was the better QB. Look, I know you want the video game QB who is a stat machine, but Kaep is a gimmick QB, and once the rest of the NFL catches on life with him will be difficult.

The problem with the 49ers is Kaep, its what happens when Harbaugh leaves to go to Michigan? That team is going to fall apart. It should have been dynasty. Instead its a flash in the pan.

This is exactly my exact thoughts on all of this and I've said as much multiple times. Hoover knows.

I will say this though, this team is probably 7-1 and possibly undefeated with a Rivers, Big Ben (wow I missed that horribly awhile back) or another elite QB. I think we win in Denver and SF and have a much better showing in the opener. Never know, but that's my opinion.

The fact is we have the best guy we could possibly have, the compensation on the trade looks like a steal, and hopefully the extension doesn't fuck us later.

[Mav]

Kaepernick hasn't grown as a QB at all. He doesn't go through progressions, gets happy feet and if he's not running, he's really struggling.

I loved him 2 years ago, but I think he peaked in the 12 playoffs.

He was a part of the pistol read that kaepernick, and Robert Griffin used to shock the league. As soon as they adjusted to it, no matter how many weapons they keep putting around him, he still cant function as a passer.

Point. His td today, was a long ass scramble throw back to a wide open Anquan boldin. Any time he was forced to stay in the pocket, he looked absolutely AWFUL.

[Saccopoo]

I wouldn't be willing to offer up two firsts, but I'm now fine with the two second rounders.

Kinda like C.E. stating that if the Chiefs win next week that they'll earn his respect?

[TimBone]

Kinda like C.E. stating that if the Chiefs win next week that they'll earn his respect?
Sure.

[cdcox]

Every time I start to kinda like Alex Smith, someone comes along and posts something completely over the top that forces me to remain slightly negative toward him in order to maintain the tiniest ounce credibility of our overall fan base. It is a huge responsibility and I hate you all for forcing me to play this role.

[Mav]

And I stated it then, and ill state it again. I do not believe the 49ers if they knew what they know now, would still of made that trade.

Just a feeling. If you want to know what I mean, watch a 49er game, and watch harbaughs body language. I never saw him look so defeated.

Maybe it has nothing to do with his qb. But I would be stunned.

[Mav]

Every time I start to kinda like Alex Smith, someone comes along and posts something completely over the top that forces me to remain slightly negative toward him in order to maintain the tiniest ounce credibility of our overall fan base. It is a huge responsibility and I hate you all for forcing me to play this role.

No one said Crown him. it really does seem silly now in hindsight the venomous reaction to the price paid for Alex smith in hindsight.

[cdcox]

No one said Crown him. it really does seem silly now in hindsight the venomous reaction to the price paid for Alex smith in hindsight.

TWO first round draft picks? If that isn't "crown him", I don't know what is.

[RealSNR]

Every time I start to kinda like Alex Smith, someone comes along and posts something completely over the top that forces me to remain slightly negative toward him in order to maintain the tiniest ounce credibility of our overall fan base. It is a huge responsibility and I hate you all for forcing me to play this role.

I'm absolutely with you.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

No one said Crown him. it really does seem silly now in hindsight the venomous reaction to the price paid for Alex smith in hindsight.

I'm good with the picks. I'm not so good at all with the extension. What I do find encouraging is that he's still busting his ass after getting paid. I'm also happy that the dude is on the field every single Sunday. I jumped off the wagon after the 9ers game. I need a little more time, that stung, but I do want back on. The next 5 games will tell me if I'm riding or walking.

[Mav]

TWO first round draft picks? If that isn't "crown him", I don't know what is.
Oh. Yeah, that's a little much. I was just thinking for the compensation given. I stand adjusted

[Mr. Flopnuts]

TWO first round draft picks? If that isn't "crown him", I don't know what is.

NOBODY would've paid that. I'm positive. Not then, now, or ever.

[Iconic]

There's a lot of love and hate on both sides of the fence here with Alex Smith, but you have to respect the fact that he's good at this offense, makes very, very few mistakes, and he's coachable, and a gamer.

He might not be able to carry you on his arm, though the Colts playoff game completely disagrees because he played lights out and our defense is what let that game loose, but he's surely not going to lose you many games either.

In all actuality, Alex Smith is like THE PERFECT fit for this team in the following sense.

1: We are going to put a solid defense on the field, year in and year out, despite an off season collapse of epic proportions.
2: We are going to put a solid run offense on the field, year in and year out. Despite Reid's penchant for passing the football on every possible play, you can't deny the talent of Charles, Davis, and Thomas in the backfield.
3: For a QB as efficient as Alex in this offense, who tries to be as high percentage as possible, its going to make for close games with average scoring, and strong defenses and run games week in and week out. The catch is, however, the offensive coordinating being able to key in on certain matchups for you to execute to have a better chance at out scoring the opponents, and we're pretty solid there.

Now you stick him into this situation with what seems like a solid overall Defense and solid overall Offensive Running game for the next 5 years or so, and as an organization you literally need NOTHING from your QB play in terms of improvement to win games. I don't mean that like Alex can't improve, or that this offensive playcalling couldn't take a few more chances, but with how efficient we are at driving down the field, running the clock out, and converting drives into points, you pretty much have to have one of the worst games of your life or have a collapse of sorts on either side of the lines to lose these games. Which is exactly what the Chiefs need, because it allows you to BUILD on what we have, which is a steady offense, and a steady defense, as of the halfway point of this season. We are now 16-7 under Alex Smith and Andy Reid in the regular season through 1.5 years. That's a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the previous decade's iterations of revolving door tenures.

Now, if you ask me what I'd give up for that sort of improvement, I'd deal two seconds in a heartbeat and consider it a steal. This guy went 1.1 in his draft class, and there was certainly a reason for it. He may not have been the historical best (to date) from that class, but he certainly hasn't been anything below consideration of an above average talent, especially in the last 4 years or so since he's had a chance to mature in the typical offenses he's been thrown into, after a literal revolving door of coordinators before that.

Now we keep looking at the 2013 and 2014 drafts going "omg look at the potential we've given up", but if you look at the last few 2nd round picks we've had over the years, is it really that bad to have an upgrade of Alex Smith over Matt Cassel? Jeff Allen(2012), Rodney Hudson(2011), Dex/Arenas (2010).

Hell in 2009 we didn't even have our 2nd rounder because we gave it for Cassel, and the Pats ended up taking Chung!

Point is, we gave up 1 2nd rounder for a "shot in the dark" QB, and then 4 years later traded two of them for a more proven game manager type, who was a direct improvement over Cassel. I still don't consider that overspending, and I think a lot of teams would have given up more, and many teams at least equal positioning, and the only way the Niners could "win" in that trade IMO, is if Kaep plays better (he hasn't) and they win in the draft (not so sure yet). The upside is that they converted a lot of picks, into more picks, but to what extent? They're about to miss the playoffs, and some of those picks are still waiting to work out for them, meanwhile our 2nd round picks from 2013 and 2014 have netted a 16-7 starter who went to the pro bowl last year, and has scored 35 touchdowns in 23 games, with only 15 turnovers (stats include rushing touchdown and fumbles in turnover numbers).

I'm happy with that, and I know a lot of other guys will disagree because we should have a "manning-esque" QB here, but the truth is, we shouldn't. This offense isn't designed for a Brady, Manning, or Brees, certainly for a Rodgers, but that's about it.

More importantly, through the first 8 games last year, we saw Alex face some backup QB's with our stout defense pre-injury where we didn't really even need to throw it, and his numbers were good for winning games, but statistically pretty average. In the late half of the season, he really turned it on and while we lost more games than the first half of the season (going 3-4 down the last 7 games prior to the week 17 bench game), we faced tougher opponents and lost a lot of guys to injury.

Now flip the script to this year. We've got a pretty tough schedule, injuries EVERYWHERE, and a completely DECIMATED offensive line compared to last year, but you know what? Alex has shown improvement, we've won tough games and beaten some solid opponents, and lost to solid opponents in tough games and/or games we shot ourselves in the foot on and lost ourselves. The stats, however, backup the idea that Alex has improved,

Through the halfway mark, having faced teams like the Patriots, Broncos, Chargers, Niners, and Dolphins, all "teams in the hunt" or at/near the top of their divisions, Alex is on pace for about the same number of touchdowns and interceptions (give or take a few), fewer fumbles lost (super important considering our defenses lack of takeaways this year), but his passing percentage is up 6.5%!!!!!!! That's huge! On top of that his average is up .4 yards per attempt, yet he's on par for almost the exact same attempts and yards as last year.

What does that tell you? Well, it should tell you that he's been more efficient in this offense in terms of higher percentage passes yielding slightly more yardage. Which is UNREAL when you consider we're either at the top or near the top of the league in DROPS. Imagine the numbers Alex would have if his receivers could CATCH a ball or GET OPEN.

Now, I know Alex will never go to the HoF or anything, but I"m at least satisfied, happy, and ecstatic about the value we've gotten in that trade, and the production in this offense. I truly believe that Reid and Smith are a happy marriage in this offense, and for all intents and purposes, this trade has worked out in spades for this team.

Somewhere in this wall of text is my personal information...

[Exoter175]

Nice post, Exoter. I do disagree on one point. There is not an offense out there that is NOT designed for a Manning/Brady type.

How so?

Both QB's flourish in more of a "spread" type offense than anything, and Reid and the structure of this team call for almost an EXACT WCO type from its players. I think the few improvements you'd see for Brady and Manning in this offense is completion percentage, likely a few points, and their audibles into opportunistic matchups with Kelce and Bowe, but you'd lose scrambling power for sure, and you'd substitute QB's taking more chances in the air, which with those two would likely serve a slight advantage to us again, but not worth the money they've spent on both guys, and to be honest, I"m more concerned with the "type" of QB, rather than the actual QB. I'd be a fool to say that Manning and Brady wouldn't do better in this offense. Just saying that those types of QB's, the ones that are more OC in the spread offense types, wouldn't flourish as well in the WCO as they would in the spread, and vice versa, Alex would be pretty bad in anything but the WCO (remember his first few years?).

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Somewhere in this wall of text is my personal information...

ROFL I read that picturing your avatar.

[Iconic]

Every time I start to kinda like Alex Smith, someone comes along and posts something completely over the top that forces me to remain slightly negative toward him in order to maintain the tiniest ounce credibility of our overall fan base. It is a huge responsibility and I hate you all for forcing me to play this role.

Yeah this thread is literally just fishing for compliments... it's like when an average looking girl says she looks 'fat and ugly' just to get a pitied ego boost from all her friends.

[Exoter175]

Somewhere in this wall of text is my personal information...

:D

[Mav]

I'm good with the picks. I'm not so good at all with the extension. What I do find encouraging is that he's still busting his ass after getting paid. I'm also happy that the dude is on the field every single Sunday. I jumped off the wagon after the 9ers game. I need a little more time, that stung, but I do want back on. The next 5 games will tell me if I'm riding or walking.
I understand. But teams loss games. Look at the chargers. Look at the pats. Don't you think there are pats fans who go how the Fuck did we lose to the chiefs? The same way rams fans go how the Fuck do we beat the 49ers and Seahawks but get absolutely destroyed by the chiefs. Nfl is a funny game bro.

#EveryDayisDay1

[cdcox]

NOBODY would've paid that. I'm positive. Not then, now, or ever.

Never the less there remain people such as the OP and many others on this board who continue to throw anvils on the pro-Alex end of the evaluation teeter totter like Wile E. Coyote. Just let the guy game manage his way to a few Super Bowls before you go to that extreme.

[ViperVisor]

Kaepernick hasn't grown as a QB at all. He doesn't go through progressions, gets happy feet and if he's not running, he's really struggling.

I loved him 2 years ago, but I think he peaked in the 12 playoffs.

His bad playoffs in 2013 was a sign of things to come. No progress made in the QB IQ or mechanics or ball security.

It was a worthwhile gamble but looks to be in the mold of a guy like Cutler who can't break bad habits.

The craziest thing of all is how he isn't a good scramble QB. He rarely pulls the ball down and takes off ahead to grab some yards when it is open.
Guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andy Dalton are better at it.
Kaepernick will pat the ball 5 times while running to the sideline.

They are crapping on the Offensive Coordinator now. The same guy who was able to on the fly adjusted the offense to using read-option in 2012.

In 2014 they are spreading the field and putting the good compliment of WRs out there.
It doesn't work when the QB is slow to make decisions and is inconsistent.

Every week he will go up the LOS think he is is playing Madden on rookie and attempt a 5 yard pass to a guy as the DB reads the telegraphed pass and jumps in for a near INT.

[-King-]

Yeah, two first round picks is ridiculous, but two 2nd rounds is a fucking steal. That was a great deal for them. I can't wait for the day CP stops overvaluing draft picks the way some people here do. When you look at players drafted in the 2nd round over the years, getting a QB that's in the top 3rd/4th of the league easily for only two 2nds is a steal.

[Fairplay]

I say 1.5 1st round picks, minimum for Alex

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

and still decided they wanted to trade Alex Smith, and the entire league saw what Alex Smith was capable of up until this point using their 50/50 hindsight (!!), what compensation would the 49ers receive for Smith?

I say 2 1st round picks, minimum.

In which parallel universe, with tangerine trees and marmalade skies does this bullshit occur?

[keg in kc]

The mistake they made was not the compensation, they took us to the woodshed there. No, the mistake was letting him go in the first place and betting their future on a flukey half season of gimmick run heavy offense from a guy who just doesn't have enough upstairs to...dare I say it...'manage'...an NFL offense.

[Mav]

The mistake they made was not the compensation, they took us to the woodshed there. No, the mistake was letting him go in the first place and betting their future on a flukey half season of gimmick run heavy offense from a guy who just doesn't have enough upstairs to...dare I say it...'manage'...an NFL offense.

Keg. When I was asked about why I truly disliked Kaepernick.

My comments have always been the same thing. One, he didn't understand how to read defenses pre snap. He still can not make the proper adjustments pre snap like Alex Smith could. He was extremely inaccurate on short passes. He lacked any touch what so ever. For every spectacular play he made, he will make 3 bone headed what the hell was that type plays.

He is so eager to prove every one wrong, that he tries way too hard, instead of some times just relying on the special teams, or defense to do their job.

The big play is his only option. He hasn't changed. Even his staunchest supporter that I know, my friend Chris, has turned on him. I never thought that would happen.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I understand. But teams loss games. Look at the chargers. Look at the pats. Don't you think there are pats fans who go how the Fuck did we lose to the chiefs? The same way rams fans go how the Fuck do we beat the 49ers and Seahawks but get absolutely destroyed by the chiefs. Nfl is a funny game bro.

#EveryDayisDay1

I'll give you that. Love the hash tag call out.

The mistake they made was not the compensation, they took us to the woodshed there. No, the mistake was letting him go in the first place and betting their future on a flukey half season of gimmick run heavy offense from a guy who just doesn't have enough upstairs to...dare I say it...'manage'...an NFL offense.

What you're saying then is that Super Bowl contenders should trade their starting QB for less than that? I wasn't happy in the beginning but we didn't very well looking back on what we gave up for Alex.

[cdcox]

Yeah, two first round picks is ridiculous, but two 2nd rounds is a ****ing steal. That was a great deal for them. I can't wait for the day CP stops overvaluing draft picks the way some people here do. When you look at players drafted in the 2nd round over the years, getting a QB that's in the top 3rd/4th of the league easily for only two 2nds is a steal.

The QB position is different. It isn't just the 2 second round picks. For such a high leverage position such as QB, it is putting your whole franchise and the prime years of your star players in the hands of whoever is your starting QB. If we had gotten Matt Cassel for a 6th round pick, it would have been a steal in terms of draft pick value, but still a bad move to put the franchise in the hands of someone who clearly wasn't up to the task. The draft pick value is there for the Alex Smith trade, but it still isn't clear to a lot of people that he is the guy that will lead us to one or more Super Bowl titles, in the context of a roster with a decent amount of talent.

[tk13]

Never the less there remain people such as the OP and many others on this board who continue to throw anvils on the pro-Alex end of the evaluation teeter totter like Wile E. Coyote. Just let the guy game manage his way to a few Super Bowls before you go to that extreme.

You of all people shouldn't get caught up in that. There's a subset of posters who will defend everything Alex Smith to the death. And there's a subset of posters who try and drag every discussion into bashing Alex Smith. That's how it'll probably always be.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Giving up the 2-2 sucked, but having the motherlode for this May, while watching SF stagnate eases the pain a bit.

[okcchief]

It would appear a top 5 defense follows Alex Smith wherever he goes. That's definitely worth 2 first-round picks.
Time of possession helps defenses. Probably not as much of a coincidence as you think.

[BigCatDaddy]

He's done something with the Chiefs that he hadn't done in his last couple of seasons with the 49ers?

Thread should have ended right here.

[ModSocks]

I think it'd probably be a 1st and a 2nd or a 1st and high 3rd. I don't think he's surprised too many people since coming to KC, aside from KC fans themselves.

But he was acclaimed for being exactly what he is right now. A smart, game managing QB who won't lose you the game. He's not flashy and will take what the defense gives.

That's what he was advertised as for two 2nd's, and that's exactly what we got.

[Mav]

Time of possession helps defenses. Probably not as much of a coincidence as you think.
He won't correlate those two. That would trash ant argument he has about alex.

[smith11]

I would probably have still traded Alex Smith if I were Harbaugh.

the thing is that niners almost traded kaeprnick to the eagles after his rookie year

[ChiliConCarnage]

But he was acclaimed for being exactly what he is right now. A smart, game managing QB who won't lose you the game. He's not flashy and will take what the defense gives.

That's what he was advertised as for two 2nd's, and that's exactly what we got.

Alex Smith is a modern day NFL miracle. Nobody gets to suck so long and so hard and still remain an NFL starter. He got the experience that taught him he can't really be a big time NFL quarterback and he's been willing to accept it.

Alex Smith is a really good qb as long as you're mostly playing from ahead. He's probably at the absolute bottom of NFL starters if you are playing from behind or have 1:45 and absolutely need a TD.

Two 2nds seems fair in retrospect though I was pissed about it at the time.

[BigCatDaddy]

Alex Smith is a modern day NFL miracle. Nobody gets to suck so long and so hard and still remain an NFL starter. He got the experience that taught him he can't really be a big time NFL quarterback and he's been willing to accept it.

Alex Smith is a really good qb as long as you're mostly playing from ahead. He's probably at the absolute bottom of NFL starters if you are playing from behind or have 1:45 and absolutely need a TD.

Two 2nds seems fair in retrospect though I was pissed about it at the time.

Solid take.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The trade was an absolute steal. Now we just need to cement the future and Draft a QB early. Sign one of the receivers in the off season and lock up Houston. Go Denver style on the cap.

[BigCatDaddy]

The trade was an absolute steal. Now we just need to cement the future and Draft a QB early. Sign one of the receivers in the off season and lock up Houston. Go Denver style on the cap.

Id sign up for this but I highly doubt they draft a QB. Last year would have been the year for that.

[OldSchool]

I think SF would have kept him for at least 1 more year as the starter and let Kaepernick learn about how to actually play the QB position instead of how to make commercials.

[Mav]

Stop. Kaepernick is garbage.

[OldSchool]

Stop. Kaepernick is garbage.

I agree, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was Harbaugh's "guy". The change was going to happen sooner or later regardless of how well Alex was playing for them.

Just saying that they probably would have kept Smith for a year or two longer, increasing his value even more, and then trading him to a QB needy team.

[Mav]

I agree, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was Harbaugh's "guy". The change was going to happen sooner or later regardless of how well Alex was playing for them.
I bet Jim regrets it.

[OldSchool]

I bet Jim regrets it.

Harbaugh is too proud and stubborn to regret something like that.

[Mav]

Harbaugh is too proud and stubborn to regret something like that.
I'm not totally sure it was jims call. Might if been baalkes

[Mav]

Harbaugh is too proud and stubborn to regret something like that.
I'm not totally sure it was jims call. Might of been baalkes

[-King-]

Harbaugh is too proud and stubborn to regret something like that.
I'm not totally sure it was jims call. Might if been baalkes
Posted via Mobile Device

[rabblerouser]

It's weird how the 49ers defense hasn't been quite as good without Alex Smith.

No it's not.

Kaepernick doesn't sustain drives like Alex. Either he hits the long ball, runs real good real far on a play or two...goes three and out, or turns it over.

Defenses LOVE 15 play, 8 minute drives at 5 yds/play.

It's how the game HAS to be played now.

[Hootie]

No it's not.

Kaepernick doesn't sustain drives like Alex. Either he hits the long ball, runs real good real far on a play or two...goes three and out, or turns it over.

Defenses LOVE 15 play, 8 minute drives at 5 yds/play.

It's how the game HAS to be played now.
It's all rigged though, right?

[JENKINSWINS]

I'm not totally sure it was jims call. Might if been baalkes
Posted via Mobile Device

It was an opportunity to sell jerseys and they took it. Kap has been selling them like crazy because of bandswaging fans falling for the hype.

[petegz28]

Kaep has a cannon and can throw a laser pass but he is inaccurate. He has one of the best overall receiving corps in the league along with one of the best RB's. If he doesn't have Boldin & Co. he is not nearly as good. That being said, if we had the WR's of SF I think Smith rapes.

[DRU]

When he wins a playoff game then lets think about talking about it..

Yeah, if not for Smith we definitely would have won that playoff game last year.

[CoMoChief]

I'll take 200-250 yds passing with 2 TD's and 0 picks/turnovers, any day of the week.

When you have a 2-headed monster in the running game in Charles/Davis and then Thomas being an ext into this running game w/ swing passes, floods, screens etc., you don't need Alex Smith to throw for 300+ yards every week. As long as he does't turn the ball over and moves the chains then we'll be just fine on offense.

Now, Bowe and Kelce need to be options 1 and 2 in the passing game. DAT is an ext in the running game and you can line him up in the slot a little bit. But what this team really needs is a true #1 WR. Bowe in this offense isn't going to be anything more than just a posession WR. He's not a great route runner, doesn't have great speed nor does he get good separation from opposing defensive backs. I can't name too many times where we've went downfield on a 20yd pass or more w/ Bowe. Most of his long yardage plays are from RAC on slants, hitches or curls when he uses his body to fend off opposing defensive backs. This team needs to get rid of Bowe in the offseason considering the amt of $$$ he's making given his lack of production under this regime, and now w/ his off the field issues resulting in much of his contract no longer being guaranteed money, it seems like a no-brainer. This team should sign Jeremy Maclin, and draft a WR in the first or second rd this coming offseason.

[BigCatDaddy]

It's weird how the 49ers defense hasn't been quite as good without Alex Smith.

Perhaps one of the 9er guys can tell us how many players on d are different also. That sore of matters a little. Obviously Aldon Smith is a small loss.

[ViperVisor]

A post made by a fool on the 49ers board in 2011.

LOL, can't prove ? Are you even watching the games or how about the last six years. Yes it's the same chatter because of the same old BS.

Only in the RZ can you find people who think we are set at the QB position.

Only on the RZ can you find people who think when we win it's because of Alex Smith but if we lose it's mostly because of everybody else

Only on the RZ will you find Alex Smith being mentioned in the same breath as Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

Only on the RZ will you find people who think Alex Smith is a franchise QB and here for the long run while the rest of the world is still trying to figure out if he's even legit or not.

The only anger built up is seeing this one time great franchise being held back by a average at best QB for the last seven years and his fans always trying to make him out to be more than what he really is.

Now lets jump ahead to today...

the refs :deevee:

This OL sucks.

With this Oline I can't even blame Kap if he is rattled.

Not only did the OL play like crap but imo, Romy and Harbaugh got out coached by Fisher and whoever their D coordinator is.

[temper11]

I think SF would have kept him for at least 1 more year as the starter and let Kaepernick learn about how to actually play the QB position instead of how to make commercials.

This... this is absolutely what the niners should have done. Let Kap continue to learn the x's and o's to go along with his physical ability.

Patience is rare in the NFL.

[JENKINSWINS]

Perhaps one of the 9er guys can tell us how many players on d are different also. That sore of matters a little. Obviously Aldon Smith is a small loss.

That sore of matters only for the 49ers right, because the Chiefs haven't lost anyone on defense or on the offense this season?

[temper11]

Kaep has a cannon and can throw a laser pass but he is inaccurate. He has one of the best overall receiving corps in the league along with one of the best RB's. If he doesn't have Boldin & Co. he is not nearly as good. That being said, if we had the WR's of SF I think Smith rapes.

I think so too... because SF's receiving core is best at what Smith excels at, short to medium passes that move the chains. Boldin is a freaking monster at "winning the ball" and crabtree does a good job of finding quick seams and coming open. Stevie Smith is playing good ball too, but Smith would be nails with the niners right now. Their o line is playing like absolute dog shit right now, but Smith has spent most of his career behind dog shit olines and has learned the very hard way how to work around them.

[BigCatDaddy]

That sore of matters only for the 49ers right, because the Chiefs haven't lost anyone on defense or on the offense this season?

Yes. We lost Tyson Jackson and Kenrick Lewis. It appears to have mattered quite a bit.

[ViperVisor]

Perhaps one of the 9er guys can tell us how many players on d are different also. That sore of matters a little. Obviously Aldon Smith is a small loss.


49ers defense has been better than most expected. Good, not great.

They broke @ DEN and broke vs. CHI when the ball was handed to Cutler in 49er territory.

49ers problems are QB is unreliable and stupid penalties.

[JENKINSWINS]

I think so too... because SF's receiving core is best at what Smith excels at, short to medium passes that move the chains. Boldin is a freaking monster at "winning the ball" and crabtree does a good job of finding quick seams and coming open. Stevie Smith is playing good ball too, but Smith would be nails with the niners right now. Their o line is playing like absolute dog shit right now, but Smith has spent most of his career behind dog shit olines and has learned the very hard way how to work around them.

Exactly, making the right pre snap reads and making call adjustments is something Alex is great at. Vernon Davis was probably the only player that when there was a mismatch, Alex's eyes would light up and take advantage of it (maybe even Delanie Walker, but he would drop a lot of easy ones). Other than that there were no other options that he could try to exploit except for checking into a run play. Something the 49ers probably need to do more often.

[OldSchool]

Yes. We lost Tyson Jackson and Kenrick Lewis. It appears to have mattered quite a bit.

Mike Devito, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry, and DJ are all scrubs then I guess. They don't matter.:)

[JENKINSWINS]

Yes. We lost Tyson Jackson and Kenrick Lewis. It appears to have mattered quite a bit.

All Kap needed was 14 points the 49ers defense only allowed 13. So it appears the defense did their job and the QB failed to perform coming off 2 weeks to prepare for a HOME game.

[JENKINSWINS]

Mike Devito, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry, and DJ are all scrubs then I guess. They don't matter.:)

Also Albert Lewis and McGrath on offense. McGrath was Mr. reliable whenever Alex went to him.

[jjchieffan]

I still really hate that we didn't have s second round pick in this last draft. I think I would've rather just given them 1.1 in the 2013 draft and been done. We could've had a good tackle in the second round if that's what they had their hearts set on......and a legit receiver in the 2nd this year.

[jjchieffan]

I still really hate that we didn't have s second round pick in this last draft. I think I would've rather just given them 1.1 in the 2013 draft and been done. We could've had a good tackle in the second round if that's what they had their hearts set on......and a legit receiver in the 2nd this year.

[BigCatDaddy]

Also Albert Lewis and McGrath on offense. McGrath was Mr. reliable whenever Alex went to him.

I think we are fine without Albert Lewis. I think his best days are behind him.

[JENKINSWINS]

I think we are fine without Albert Lewis. I think his best days are behind him.

LOL I meant Brandon Albert.