Something of a moral dilemma

[Wallcrawler]

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero fucks what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go fuck himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy fuck from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.


Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to fuck off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.

[Katipan]

It's a shit thing to do but the man is going to get fired one way or another. No reason for you to ruin your Christmas too.

[TimBone]

The theory of Deontology would tell you to stand up for the kid. It's the right thing to do.

However, Katipan makes a good point. It doesn't seem like it's gonna do much good even if you try.

[PHOG]

So, Im in position to take over the reigns of the store Im currently working in. Its a very small staff, three of us managers and four part time employees.

Things go pretty well most of the time, despite some maturity issues with my direct supervisor. He's only 26, and as far as the business goes, he knows literally everything. Theres no task or problem or issue that he cannot readily resolve within a few minutes.

However, when it comes to actually leading a team of people, this guy is ASS. For real. Schedule changes with little to no notice, making people stay longer so that he can leave early, calling people in early so that he can go home, and being a dick in general about requests for time off even if they are the required two weeks in advance.

So we have a part timer who does a decent job, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the effort is there. He's decided that we are going to part ways with this person, but Im going to be the one to cut the ties.

Over the phone.

To me, this is complete bullshit. The guy being fired, we'll call him "Joe" is only being fired because he's called the boss out on multiple offenses of laziness, both just hanging out in back while on a shift, as well as the multiple counts of leaving early. Joe's broken plans repeatedly, without complaint, to come in early so Boss could leave early. No emergency, just tired of being there.

The first thing I tell Boss is that its chickenshit to fire someone over the phone. If Im going to take your ability to provide for your family from you, Im going to at least have the sac to look you in the face when I do it, and tell you why.

Boss gives zero fucks what I think, or what my view is. He's the boss, Im the subordinate, and my instructions are to call Joe in the morning and tell him that his services are no longer required.

If I refuse, Ill be documented for insubordination and my position to take over the business will take a substantial hit, because the third manager "Yes Man" is a bit spineless when it comes to taking a stand on anything, and simply does what he's told without question.

Now, I have no problem with Joe. Joe could be faster, and smarter, but Joe is always on time, always covers shifts when needed, and always works 100% of the time he is present. In short, dude's not perfect but he's doing everything he can at all times. That goes a long way in my book.

I don't really know what I should do. I mean I want to tell Boss to go fuck himself and if he wants to be a chickenshit and fire Joe over the phone for being called out as a lazy fuck from time to time, that's his problem and not mine.

On the other hand, I could lose my position to Yes Man and potentially screw myself out of a nice pay increase, perks, and better job security when Boss transfers in June.


Going over Boss' head is out of the question, as the District Manager and Boss are aquainted outside of work and have known each other for about 5 years.

So my choice is to call up Joe in the morning and tell him that he's fired and not be able to tell him exactly why he's being fired, or to tell my Boss to fuck off and put my future at risk.

Its such a shit thing to do to someone, especially so close to Christmas.
3 Managers and 4 part time employees? You should know the problem.

[TribalElder]

Sounds like the young boss is a punk bitch

Kick his ass for him

[mdchiefsfan]

The question lies here: do you really want to work with someone like this? I don't know what kind of job it is or how the benefits weigh out, but if this guy is that much of a tool I would happily take the documentation while looking for a different job. It's only a matter of time until he views you as a threat and plots your demise as well.

That is your option, or you could take this matter above his head.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

TL;DR

PIIHB

[Abba-Dabba]

I always try to put myself in the person who is getting fired shoes. So, I have no problem with firing people over the phone. I would be pissed to be called in, myself knowing the whole drive something isn't right. Why make me waste the trip... and gas? I coulda been out looking for a job! And I hate the mid day and end of the day firings. You mean you wanted me to work all day for you and then fire me? Fuck You! I coulda been out looking for a job!

Worst of them all is the firings by letter. I have seen them done but never done myself.

Firing any one is not a thing of pleasure anyway you go about it. Sometimes there isn't wrong way or right way to do it. Just that it has to be done

[Wallcrawler]

3 Managers and 4 part time employees? You should know the problem.

The problem is a lazy, entitled shitheel that inherited his position and didn't have to interview for it. He doesn't like being called out on not doing his job when he's supposed to be setting the example.

He's always late, which is funny because he makes the fucking schedule. Always at least ten minutes late and leaving one to two hours early. Multiple trips outside for smoke breaks that range from ten to twenty minutes leaving a single person alone inside while this is going on.

It gets fucking old.

When he applies himself, the guy is a fucking whirlwind of productivity. I mean SHIT GETS DONE. No bullshit. We had a corporate visit recently and dude worked a 13 hour shift and did about a week's worth of projects in one double shift.

I tried to explain that if he would simply apply a LITTLE of that every time he was in during the week, it wouldn't have to be like that all at once. But whatever. Its his barbecue.

For now.

Cutting someone loose because you cant handle the truth about your laziness is fucking bullshit.

Getting someone else to cut that person loose is some cowardly shit.

[mdchiefsfan]

I always try to put myself in the person who is getting fired shoes. So, I have no problem with firing people over the phone. I would be pissed to be called in, myself knowing the whole drive something isn't right. Why make me waste the trip... and gas? I coulda been out looking for a job! And I hate the mid day and end of the day firings. You mean you wanted me to work all day for you and then fire me? **** You! I coulda been out looking for a job!

Worst of them all is the firings by letter. I have seen them done but never done myself.

Firing any one is not a thing of pleasure anyway you go about it. Sometimes there isn't wrong way or right way to do it. Just that it has to be done

Depends if he's getting paid hourly. You fire him over the phone, he got no benefits to listening to his means of income crumble. When I go to interview associates that have stolen from my company, I ensure that they are paid for the time of the interview and think it is more worth while to look them in the eyes.

[Wallcrawler]

The question lies here: do you really want to work with someone like this? I don't know what kind of job it is or how the benefits weigh out, but if this guy is that much of a tool I would happily take the documentation while looking for a different job. It's only a matter of time until he views you as a threat and plots your demise as well.

That is your option, or you could take this matter above his head.

He transfers in June, maybe earlier. I take over when that happens. So I can do this shit and feel like a complete scumbag, or I can say no, ride it out and see what happens.

[mdchiefsfan]

The problem is a lazy, entitled shitheel that inherited his position and didn't have to interview for it. He doesn't like being called out on not doing his job when he's supposed to be setting the example.

He's always late, which is funny because he makes the ****ing schedule. Always at least ten minutes late and leaving one to two hours early. Multiple trips outside for smoke breaks that range from ten to twenty minutes leaving a single person alone inside while this is going on.

It gets ****ing old.

When he applies himself, the guy is a ****ing whirlwind of productivity. I mean SHIT GETS DONE. No bullshit. We had a corporate visit recently and dude worked a 13 hour shift and did about a week's worth of projects in one double shift.

I tried to explain that if he would simply apply a LITTLE of that every time he was in during the week, it wouldn't have to be like that all at once. But whatever. Its his barbecue.

For now.

Cutting someone loose because you cant handle the truth about your laziness is ****ing bullshit.

Getting someone else to cut that person loose is some cowardly shit.


Is there an HR department in your company? Most places don't allow solitary power like you're describing.

[mdchiefsfan]

He transfers in June, maybe earlier. I take over when that happens. So I can do this shit and feel like a complete scumbag, or I can say no, ride it out and see what happens.

Well I get the morality of the situation, but this son of a bitch shouldn't be allowed to strike fear in his employees and get off without reprisal. There has to be another means to report the lack of managerial skills of this guy.

[Lex Luthor]

It's a shit thing to do but the man is going to get fired one way or another. No reason for you to ruin your Christmas too.

Katipan's answer makes sense. The employee is going to be fired, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. I'd be looking for a long-term exit strategy, but your hands are tied at the moment.

[mdchiefsfan]

Katipan's answer makes sense. The employee is going to be fired, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. I'd be looking for a long-term exit strategy, but your hands are tied at the moment.

That's bullshit. The man shouldn't be fired for speaking honestly. Heaven forbid if someone takes what most companies offer, which is an anonymous hotline to HR for just these types of situations.

[Wallcrawler]

Is there an HR department in your company? Most places don't allow solitary power like you're describing.

There is, and it usually trickles down through the Regional, and then the District Manager.

District Manager and Regional Manager are buddies, so when District tells Regional that Boss is in the right, there's not going to be much questioning.

Arkansas is a "Right to Hire/Fire" state so basically I could fire your ass for looking at me crossways and there's really nothing you could do about it.

This place has been through several managers, and theft was up, profits were down, it was pretty much a nightmare for the DM and if he came here he had to stay for a week to right the ship. As they shuffled through managers hand over fist, they finally found some consistency when Boss took over.

Basically, our productivity is insane, our numbers are great, losses are way down, and Boss looks like a goldenboy because he's passing it off as he's doing this shit singlehandedly, like the staff we have now had nothing to do with it.

He's in a really good position right now. He could probably off someone on the front steps and they would believe he must have had a good reason for it.

He's simply a lazy, selfish asshole who is exercising a little bit of that power now that someone has ruffled his tailfeathers.

[cdcox]

When I have had to let someone go, I have always done it face to face. But I consider it a best practice and the right thing to do, rather than a moral imperative.

The bigger question is, will this guy be micromanaging you (telling you what to do and how to do it) once you take over the store? If so, I'd be polishing my resume.

If it is 7 more months of dealing with this guy, you can expect a new "test" like this every week or two. You have to decide if you can deal with that to get the promotion you want.

[Katipan]

That's bullshit. The man shouldn't be fired for speaking honestly. Heaven forbid if someone takes what most companies offer, which is an anonymous hotline to HR for just these types of situations.

You're pretty lucky if you have the kind of job where you can not do what your boss tells you to do.

[mdchiefsfan]

There is, and it usually trickles down through the Regional, and then the District Manager.

District Manager and Regional Manager are buddies, so when District tells Regional that Boss is in the right, there's not going to be much questioning.

Arkansas is a "Right to Hire/Fire" state so basically I could fire your ass for looking at me crossways and there's really nothing you could do about it.

This place has been through several managers, and theft was up, profits were down, it was pretty much a nightmare for the DM and if he came here he had to stay for a week to right the ship. As they shuffled through managers hand over fist, they finally found some consistency when Boss took over.

Basically, our productivity is insane, our numbers are great, losses are way down, and Boss looks like a goldenboy because he's passing it off as he's doing this shit singlehandedly, like the staff we have now had nothing to do with it.

He's in a really good position right now. He could probably off someone on the front steps and they would believe he must have had a good reason for it.

He's simply a lazy, selfish asshole who is exercising a little bit of that power now that someone has ruffled his tailfeathers.

So what you're telling me is your perception of the company's situation is forcing you into a moral dilemma. Most calls into HR can be anonymous and mention the words potential lawsuit and you have their ears.

Maryland is also a right to fire state, but we have protocols in place to prevent unemployment, none-the-less lawsuits. This man could have a legitimate claim that he was fired for speaking his mind about the lack of effort from this manager and that it was a personal attack rather than a business decision. I suggest you check which angles you can pursue anonymously to put a bug in the higher ups ear.

I just witnessed a GM at a retrial store I used to work for get fired through an anonymous system to the Corperate office HR for lack of moral in the store. No one was punished for their calls. You provide the info you are comfortable giving.
Plain and simple.

[mdchiefsfan]

You're pretty lucky if you have the kind of job where you can not do what your boss tells you to do.

I have comfort in knowing that my boss won't ask me to do anything out of my moral scope to cover his ass, because he knows there are means to bury him if he did.

[Wallcrawler]

The bigger question is, will this guy be micromanaging you (telling you what to do and how to do it) once you take over the store? If so, I'd be polishing my resume.

If it is 7 more months of dealing with this guy, you can expect a new "test" like this every week or two. You have to decide if you can deal with that to get the promotion you want.


Nah, Boss will be gone. Ive been trained specifically for it. It was Boss' out because he hates where he lives. Wants that transfer out, and has his replacement ready as DM requested. He could transfer out sooner than that, but once he's gone, I run the show for better or worse. Ill answer to the DM, and the RM as he does now.

Ive worked with him for about 3 years now. He can be a really great person. Funny, great guy to have a beer with outside of work, but definitely has a selfish/lazy streak that shows up. If he doesn't feel like working, we're going to be picking up the slack one way or another.

Even if I could somehow save Joe's job for now, Boss would be furious about it because "he lost". Joe would then be under so much scrutiny that one mistake could be the end of him. As of now, he hasn't done anything to lose his job, save for making a few statements that pissed off the Boss during a session where Boss was trying to ream his ass for things not getting done fast enough.

He said that if he could get some help between Boss' sessions of Candy Crush in the back, that things might get done a lot faster since there were only two of them in the building.

Or if he stayed and worked his entire shift instead of constantly leaving early. True shit, that just pissed him off.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Give me the boss's number. I'm gonna' have some fun with that prick.

[Lex Luthor]

Nah, Boss will be gone. Ive been trained specifically for it. It was Boss' out because he hates where he lives. Wants that transfer out, and has his replacement ready as DM requested. He could transfer out sooner than that, but once he's gone, I run the show for better or worse. Ill answer to the DM, and the RM as he does now.

Ive worked with him for about 3 years now. He can be a really great person. Funny, great guy to have a beer with outside of work, but definitely has a selfish/lazy streak that shows up. If he doesn't feel like working, we're going to be picking up the slack one way or another.

Even if I could somehow save Joe's job for now, Boss would be furious about it because "he lost". Joe would then be under so much scrutiny that one mistake could be the end of him. As of now, he hasn't done anything to lose his job, save for making a few statements that pissed off the Boss during a session where Boss was trying to ream his ass for things not getting done fast enough.

He said that if he could get some help between Boss' sessions of Candy Crush in the back, that things might get done a lot faster since there were only two of them in the building.

Or if he stayed and worked his entire shift instead of constantly leaving early. True shit, that just pissed him off.

Save Joe's phone number. Call him in June and offer him a job.

[Katipan]

I have comfort in knowing that my boss won't ask me to do anything out of my moral scope.

And thats charming too.

But the man is asking him to do something that isn't illegal and happens all the damn time. Some people even find out theyre going to get fired off the Internet.

It's a shit thing. But it's not the worst thing in the entire world.

[LoneWolf]

Was Joe calling out the manager to his face or behind his back and his comments got back to the manager?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I worked for a retail boss once. Laziest sack of shit I ever saw. Of course, the second man down busted double the ass to make up for it because he wanted that store.

[mdchiefsfan]

And thats charming too.

But the man is asking him to do something that isn't illegal and happens all the damn time. Some people even find out theyre going to get fired off the Internet.

It's a shit thing. But it's not the worst thing in the entire world.

If it is creating a moral dilemma and he has witness information as to why the manager wants the associate fired, he has a means to take things up higher without having his named involved for other people to decide, which removes the moral obligation from his shoulders.

[Halfcan]

Sure is a lot of drama for a Dominoes pizza?

I would tell the boss to go fuck himself and start looking for a better job.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Once told that boss a little story relayed to me from another friend who worked in retail about a store manager getting shit-canned by the DM for working less than 20 hours a week while having his subordinates do all the heavy lifting in his absence.

He didn't like that story.

[Lex Luthor]

And thats charming too.

But the man is asking him to do something that isn't illegal and happens all the damn time. Some people even find out theyre going to get fired off the Internet.

It's a shit thing. But it's not the worst thing in the entire world.

Yup.

A couple of friends of mine worked at home for an Internet startup located in Silicon Valley. Every week they had a conference call with a dozen or so people on the line. One day the big boss got on the call and said "The purpose of this call is to tell everyone on the call that they are being let go."

Shit happens.

[Katipan]

If it is creating a moral dilemma and he has witness information as to why the manager wants the associate fired he has a means to take things up higher without having his named involved for people to decide, which removes the moral obligation from his shoulders.

Over and over and over he reiterates the fact that his boss is a "chickenshit" and is "scared." It's not a moral dilemma, it's a (deservedly) complete disrespect for his boss.

All the other stuff is just drama.

[mdchiefsfan]

Yup.

A couple of friends of mine worked at home for an Internet startup located in Silicon Valley. Every week they had a conference call with a dozen or so people on the line. One day the big boss got on the call and said "The purpose of this call is to tell everyone on the call that they are being let go."

Shit happens.

How big of a company was that?

[mdchiefsfan]

Over and over and over he reiterates the fact that his boss is a "chickenshit" and is "scared." It's not a moral dilemma, it's a (deservedly) complete disrespect for his boss.

All the other stuff is just drama.

Read the title of the thread

[Katipan]

Read the title of the thread

Ok, go fuck yourself.

Was that helpful?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Over and over and over he reiterates the fact that his boss is a "chickenshit" and is "scared." It's not a moral dilemma, it's a (deservedly) complete disrespect for his boss.

All the other stuff is just drama.

That little "candy crush on the clock"-motherfucker SHOULD be "disrespected".

[mdchiefsfan]

Ok, go **** yourself.

Was that helpful?

LMAO right on. All I did was give the best advice I could with the information was given. Never once did I attack you or your thoughts. Way to go on this one!

[Katipan]

That little "candy crush on the clock"-mother****er SHOULD be "disrespected".

Maybe if I bolded the word deservedly and made it a larger font?

[Just Passin' By]

Ok, go **** yourself.

Was that helpful?

LMAO


It made me laugh. That was helpful.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Maybe if I bolded the word deservedly and made it a larger font?

That would be helpful. :evil:

[Katipan]

That would be helpful. :evil:

Oh you.

rep.

[Lex Luthor]

How big of a company was that?

Maybe 50 employees at their peak. No corporate HR department to appeal to.

[LoneWolf]

It's not normally a very smart move to call your boss lazy to his face, especially when being asked to get something done. At many companies this would be considered insubordination and a friable offense.

[mdchiefsfan]

Maybe 50 employees at their peak. No corporate HR department to appeal to.

As I said on my first post in this thread, I have no clue what company he is involved with, but MOST companies have a means to prevent this type of bullying. To point your toes downstream and go with the flow is poor management in my eyes. I wouldn't hesitate to stand up for what was right for my employees. Maybe I don't have enough to lose yet, who knows.

[mdchiefsfan]

It's not normally a very smart move to call your boss lazy to his face, especially when being asked to get something done. At many companies this would be considered insubordination and a friable offense.

I can agree with this, but sometimes a spade is a spade. This guy has gotten as far as he has by promoting fear and intimidation in the work place. That is how he is getting his numbers, guaranteed. All it takes is one person to start the stand; the rest will follow.

[Saccopoo]

3 Managers and 4 part time employees? You should know the problem.

Bingo.

And the 26 year old kid is a tool.

Somebody else wants YOU to fire a good employee because that punk kid is too pussy to do it for no other reason than the guy had the balls to point out that the 26 year old "manager" is a lazy piece of shit.

Life is too short to be a pussy.

I'd try to arrange a meeting with the owner of said company and explain the situation objectively.

You'll remember being a gutless turd who fired a good employee for no other reason than a bad employee told you to for the rest of your life. You don't want to be that guy forever.

[mr. tegu]

Does your boss think you guys are buddies? If so, he may not think he is asking you to do anything that bad.

Also, it sounds like you only verbally expressed your disagreement about firing him over the phone, not firing him in general. If your main concern was the act of firing him at all, that should have been what you expressed, not the whole phone thing. For all you know there is more to it and he deserves to be fired so if you say you aren't sure he should be fired perhaps your boss could explain why he should be fired.

Then if its still clear he has to be fired and that there isn't a great reason beyond what you described, say you think that it should wait until after the holidays.

[Abba-Dabba]

Depends if he's getting paid hourly. You fire him over the phone, he got no benefits to listening to his means of income crumble. When I go to interview associates that have stolen from my company, I ensure that they are paid for the time of the interview and think it is more worth while to look them in the eyes.

Listening for what? Look in the eyes for what That he was fired? Try to teach a lesson?

If there any legal concerns. You shouldn't be speaking to him in the first place. That should be handled any HR you have. And if the theft is serious enough. Let a attorney handle it.

You're making it more complicated than it is. Are you in a at-will state?

[mdchiefsfan]

Listening for what? Look in the eyes for what That he was fired? Try to teach a lesson?

If there any legal concerns. You shouldn't be speaking to him in the first place. That should be handled any HR you have. And if the theft is serious enough. Let a attorney handle it.

You're making it more complicated than it is. Are you in a at-will state?

I meant he wasn't afforded the respect to see it face to face. Firing him over the phone doesn't give him a chance to look his accuser in the face and defend himself. It's cowardly.

In an entirely different scope, I like to do my interviews face to face because I like to establish a rapport with the associates I am interviewing. Did you interview the associate for the job over the phone, or face to face? To hire that associate, as the hiring employee, you wanted that respect, why can't the hired get that same respect when being fired?

As far as my job goes: I am an Investigator for Loss Prevention for my company. My job is to interview associates who were caught stealing to determine the amount of loss they caused and who else may be causing it. I am well trained in the legal boundaries of what my job entails and I make sure to never overstep those boundaries, but thanks.

You must be a lawyer.

[Abba-Dabba]

Is there any documentation started? Doesn't sound like the information given that there is a line of documentation on the guy.

Unless you want to separate with the employee and don't mind paying him unemployment. Then fire at-will. And since he is in an leadership position. Will the separation require a severance package?

Doesn't sound like this potential firing is very well thought out and very rash. Quite frankly it makes me wonder if the person wanting the guy fired is really the guy you want leading anything in any company.

Either way, you will never see me working for your company, nosiree

[Abba-Dabba]

I meant he wasn't afforded the respect to see it face to face. Firing him over the phone doesn't give him a chance to look his accuser in the face and defend himself. It's cowardly.

In an entirely different scope, I like to do my interviews face to face because I like to establish a rapport with the associates I am interviewing. Did you interview the associate for the job over the phone, or face to face? To hire that associate, as the hiring employee, you wanted that respect, why can't the hired get that same respect when being fired?

As far as my job goes: I am an Investigator for Loss Prevention for my company. My job is to interview associates who were caught stealing to determine the amount of loss they caused and who else may be causing it. I am well trained in the legal boundaries of what my job entails and I make sure to never overstep those boundaries, but thanks.

You must be a lawyer.

1st off. He shouldn't be meeting an accuser. Who the hell is running this show? Lord forbid. A good HR team would be livid.

[Katipan]

He's a part time employee. No unemployment. No severance.

[mdchiefsfan]

1st off. He shouldn't be meeting an accuser. Who the hell is running this show? Lord forbid. A good HR team would be livid.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Have you ever worked with a Loss Prevention Team?

[Abba-Dabba]

I like to do face to face interviews. I like the interaction and find myself in an interview for longer than I should be spending. A good time I would like to spend in any interview is at least an hour. But frequently finding myself looking at the clock and seeing a hour and a half has gone by.

[mdchiefsfan]

To add: you do realize that by law a company as the right to interview and reclaim any lost assets that occurred as a result of negligent behavior from one of their associates, right?

I have been doing this for over 8 year now for two separate companies and have gotten quite an abundant amount of judicial convictions in my time, none of which have landed me in trouble with any of my HR Depts.

[Abba-Dabba]

You have no clue what you are talking about. Have you ever worked with a Loss Prevention Team?

Have I ever managed security guards? Contract or Proprietary security?

[Abba-Dabba]

To add: you do realize that by law a company as the right to interview and reclaim any lost assets that occurred as a result of negligent behavior from one of their associates, right?

I have been doing this for over 8 year now for two separate companies and have gotten quite an abundant amount of judicial convictions in my time, none of which have landed me in trouble with any of my HR Depts.

You never have a person meet their accuser. You want to talk about face to face firing. Why wouldn't this person supervisor have the balls to take it up with the thief himself? That is his job FWIW. To manage the people under him.

[Abba-Dabba]

He's a part time employee. No unemployment. No severance.

Bye.



Next!

[mdchiefsfan]

You never have a person meet their accuser. You want to talk about face to face firing. Why wouldn't this person supervisor have the balls to take it up with the thief himself? That is his job FWIW. To manage the people under him.

I don't fire asshat, but I am the accuser and I tell them to their face what I know. I interview then they decide to suspend or terminate. I am just the person to find out how much or who else is involved. How about you stop talking about things you have not one clue about. Thanks.

[Abba-Dabba]

I don't fire asshat, but I am the accuser and I tell them to their face what I know. I interview then they decide to suspend or terminate. I am just the person to find out how much or who else is involved. How about you stop talking about things you have not one clue about. Thanks.


So you are the accuser and the person who finds out how much and who else is involved? I see no conflict there at all.

[Simply Red]

Here's one.

4 yrs ago, thereabouts

Working for a Computer Hardware company, fired via text message by Sales Manager. Two weeks later I had my own company operating the business out of a condo.

About 2 years into my new venture I get word that this individual (now my ex sales mgr. at ex employer) was escorted out of my ex employers office by the police, due to theft.

So he was terminated.

we're entering our forth year and now have three offices a conference room and a 2,400ish SF warehouse.

It was a sweet few series' of months let me tell you.

[Abba-Dabba]

Are you contract security? Is it a retail store? In the mall?

[mdchiefsfan]

You never have a person meet their accuser.

Also, this makes no ****ing sense. The person accusing knows exactly how much they are guilty for and are therefore to most qualified person to interview.

Say I watched on our camera system and saw them steal $1000+. I know what they took, how frequently they took it, and the means by which they took it, but since I am the one accusing them I shouldn't be the one interviewing?

Any rebuttal they have, I know the answer to. Any excuse they present, I can shut down. You bet your ass, with the training I have received, I am the most qualified person to interview associates who steal from my company.

I think your beliefs in the judicial system are just a bit off.

[mdchiefsfan]

Are you contract security? Is it a retail store? In the mall?

You really have not one clue what loss prevention is. In all honesty, that speaks well for your character.

[mdchiefsfan]

Security is much different than loss prevention. My company decides that it is worth their investment to pay us to prevent loss to their products. I take back the lawyer comment from before.

[mdchiefsfan]

So you are the accuser and the person who finds out how much and who else is involved? I see no conflict there at all.

Pleas elaborate on the conflict

[Abba-Dabba]

Also, this makes no ****ing sense. The person accusing knows exactly how much they are guilty for and are therefore to most qualified person to interview.

Say I watched on our camera system and saw them steal $1000+. I know what they took, how frequently they took it, and the means by which they took it, but since I am the one accusing them I shouldn't be the one interviewing?

Any rebuttal they have, I know the answer to. Any excuse they present, I can shut down. You bet your ass, with the training I have received, I am the most qualified person to interview associates who steal from my company.

I think your beliefs in the judicial system are just a bit off.

No, you as the accuser should not be asking. You should report the CCTV incidents to your superior. Record the dates and times. I am sure it is backed up by a DVR somewhere. Pull the incidents from the DVR and burn them to a disc. But really, pulling them from the DVR and putting it on a disc should be handled by IT.

If it is a value that reaches felony standards of your state. You definitely should just not be asking any questions. Let your superiors decide if they want to notify law enforcement, termination, or a coming to jesus meeting with the supervisor.

Are you sure you are ready for management when you opportunity comes?

[mdchiefsfan]

No, you as the accuser should not be asking. You should report the CCTV incidents to your superior. Record the dates and times. I am sure it is backed up by a DVR somewhere. Pull the incidents from the DVR and burn them to a disc. But really, pulling them from the DVR and putting it on a disc should be handled by IT.

If it is a value that reaches felony standards of your state. You definitely should just not be asking any questions. Let your superiors decide if they want to notify law enforcement, termination, or a coming to jesus meeting with the supervisor.

Are you sure you are ready for management when you opportunity comes?

I am the superior with access to the DVR. your and idiot!

[Abba-Dabba]

Pleas elaborate on the conflict

Not to sound like an ass. But are you serious. You being the accuser interviewing the person you are accusing of doing something illegal doesn't raise any bit of conflict in your eyes?

[mdchiefsfan]

Not to sound like an ass. But are you serious. You being the accuser interviewing the person you are accusing of doing something illegal doesn't raise any bit of conflict in your eyes?

Not one bit, please elaborate.

[Abba-Dabba]

I am the superior with access to the DVR. your and idiot!

And do you have any of the files from the DVR copied to disc? And if you do why suddenly is all this unknown form of documentation coming to light?

So you are the guys superior and your boss is telling you to call him in the morning and fire him? And you have witnessed him on CCTV, backed up on DVR stealing $1000+ worth of merchandise? And you have a moral issue because you want to arrange a meeting with the guy to fire him? But you want to interview him.

BTW are you contract security?

[mdchiefsfan]

And do you have any of the files from the DVR copied to disc? And if you do why suddenly is all this unknown form of documentation coming to light?

So you are the guys superior and your boss is telling you to call him in the morning and fire him? And you have witnessed him on CCTV, backed up on DVR stealing $1000+ worth of merchandise? And you have a moral issue because you want to arrange a meeting with the guy to fire him? But you want to interview him.

BTW are you contract security?

Wtf are you talking about?

[Abba-Dabba]

Not one bit, please elaborate.

For one thing. If it is a firing. Just say we no longer need your services begining today. If they ask to discuss why. If you live in an at-will state, you don't have to discuss, ask, or answer any questions. Any footage from the DVR, as you say there is. Would be enough to squash any unemployment claims.

Sounds like you have a bit of emotion wrapped up in it already. And it even more sounds like you are trying to increase that emotion by meetings and interviews.

If it is a law enforcement issue. Law Enforcement doesn't care what you ask them. They just care what you saw on the DVR and a copy to disc. You being a loss prevention associate should know first and foremost you are not law enforcement. And any investigation of a crime that involves them. Involves them asking the questions. Not you.

[Abba-Dabba]

Wtf are you talking about?

I talking about the posts you have made. I am trying to put the whole story down from your perspective. Because it isn't really making a whole damn bit of sense.

[Abba-Dabba]

Also, this makes no ****ing sense. The person accusing knows exactly how much they are guilty for and are therefore to most qualified person to interview.

Say I watched on our camera system and saw them steal $1000+. I know what they took, how frequently they took it, and the means by which they took it, but since I am the one accusing them I shouldn't be the one interviewing?

Any rebuttal they have, I know the answer to. Any excuse they present, I can shut down. You bet your ass, with the training I have received, I am the most qualified person to interview associates who steal from my company.

I think your beliefs in the judicial system are just a bit off.

Are you contract security or proprietary? You still have not answered that question.

[mdchiefsfan]

I talking about the posts you have made. I am trying to put the whole story down from your perspective. Because it isn't really making a whole damn bit of sense.

Get a job with a company that has a loss prevention dept, steal, and it will make a whole lot more sense.

[Abba-Dabba]

Get a job with a company that has a loss prevention dept, steal, and it will make a whole lot more sense.

Yeah, that isn't going to happen. My security world has moved past retail

Get some balls and do what your boss wants you to do. Calling someone to fire them is a moral issue in management you are just going to have to get the **** over if you want to move up, as you say you do.

Don't take this wrong or anything. But you are not management material I would look for if a call to inform a employee the are fired is causing you a moral issue. How long have you been in management and how many people have you fired in the past?

[Abba-Dabba]

Since you aren't going to answer the question I will just give you what I think you are. You are security guard in a mall or retail setting. Contract, used and abused. Mediocre pay at best with benefits that are barely meh.

How many security and/or criminal justice courses have you taken?

[mdchiefsfan]

Yeah, that isn't going to happen. My security world has moved past retail

Get some balls and do what your boss wants you to do. Calling someone to fire them is a moral issue in management you are just going to have to get the **** over if you want to move up, as you say you do.

Don't take this wrong or anything. But you are not management material I would look for if a call to inform a employee the are fired is causing you a moral issue. How long have you been in management and how many people have you fired in the past?

I'm quite glad I don't have shit to prove to you, because if that is your approach I would want nothing to do with you. I would rather have someone working for me that can take the moral high ground and go against the flow for what is right, but if what you are looking for is a lame shit that just follows orders, that speaks volumes about your morality. Good luck with that.

[Abba-Dabba]

I'm quite glad I don't have shit to prove to you, because if that is your approach I would want nothing to do with you. I would rather have someone working for me that can take the moral high ground and go against the flow for what is right, but if what you are looking for is a lame shit that just follows orders, that speaks volumes about your morality. Good luck with that.

It's business. Not morals. Business is Business.

You can ignore me all you want with whatever sort of moral superiority issue you have with me. But the problem isn't with me, your boss, or even the employee. It's you. You are the problem. Good luck moving up.

[mdchiefsfan]

It's business. Not morals. Business is Business.

You can ignore me all you want with whatever sort of moral superiority issue you have with me. But the problem isn't with me, your boss, or even the employee. It's you. You are the problem. Good luck moving up.

I've been quite successful moving up with the way I have handled my business. It is you who is the problem. The roll over douche that can't find his balls to stand up for what he believes in because he believe his balls are the one's in his mouth, which belong to his boss. It takes balls to be successful, but it takes morality to gain the respect of your subordinates. It's a business approach that many are too scared to take and I can understand why you feel this way, but just because you have allegedly achieved some success with this approach, doesn't mean it's the only way to achieve it.

Rot in Hell, fucker.

[Smed1065]

The question lies here: do you really want to work with someone like this? I don't know what kind of job it is or how the benefits weigh out, but if this guy is that much of a tool I would happily take the documentation while looking for a different job. It's only a matter of time until he views you as a threat and plots your demise as well.

That is your option, or you could take this matter above his head.

That/This
I stayed once for the benefits young and left with a tude less than 18 months later.

[Abba-Dabba]

I've been quite successful moving up with the way I have handled my business. It is you who is the problem. The roll over douche that can't find his balls to stand up for what he believes in because he believe his balls are the one's in his mouth, which belong to his boss. It takes balls to be successful, but it takes morality to gain the respect of your subordinates. It's a business approach that many are too scared to take and I can understand why you feel this way, but just because you have allegedly achieved some success with this approach, doesn't mean it's the only way to achieve it.

Rot in Hell, ****er.

ROFL

Yeah, you're way too emotional. I have achieved some success, not where I want to be. But the proverbial peak has hit, so to speak where I am at right now. Time to move to a larger market TBH.

But I have earned the little success I have presently because I worked hard for it. Not on how I fire someone.

[Abba-Dabba]

Subordinates are there for the same thing you are. A paycheck.

I have no problem keeping my employees satisfied. To me it shows the professionalism of a person if they can perform just as well standing next to someone they like, as well as someone they don't like.

You are looking for some kind of utopia in the workplace that doesn't exist. Not everyone is going to have your respect, not everyone is going to like you. Get over it. You are management now. That is just the way it is. I know, I know. Every new incoming manager has these dreams of everyone will just fall in line with their program and everyone will like and respect one another. But it never happens. It's naive to think it does.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Tell your boss to go **** himself, but before doing so set up a specialized computer program that diverts fractions of cents from each transaction your company makes and re-directs it to a dummy account in, say, Switzerland or something like that and then sit back and reap the rewards . . . .

Consider it severance.

[Kaepernick]

Fire Joe. Re-hire Joe after Boss is gone and you are the boss.

Other than that, there aren't enough details about pay and longevity and your career plans to know if it is worth the risk being insubordinate. It is usually not a good idea but if you are working at MacDonalds, I'm not sure how long you are going to be there that this matters. If you are gunning for 7 figure paid CEO of a fortune 500 company, you may not want to risk killing your career.

From the first few pages to the thread, I have no clue how transient this job is for you. Are you 40 and you will be doing this job you have had your heart set on until you are 60? Fire Joe, hire him back later. Are you 27 and this is a temp job on your way to bigger things, then you can probably kiss off boss because this isn't the end all anyway.

From your first few pages, I have no clue how important this job is to you as a lifelong career dream.

[mdchiefsfan]

ROFL

Yeah, you're way too emotional. I have achieved some success, not where I want to be. But the proverbial peak has hit, so to speak where I am at right now. Time to move to a larger market TBH.

But I have earned the little success I have presently because I worked hard for it. Not on how I fire someone.

I'm emotional because I have worked for way too many assholes with your perspective. I've been the one that endures, much like what the OP is mentioning, but have learned, as I have climbed up into my career that it is the one's that like to squash the "ants" with their boots, or just conform to what is expected of them, either get fired for creating a hostile work environment, or fizzle out due to being over stressed because their associates hate them.

Is there emotion involved? Yes. But a man that doesn't use some emotion and thought behind his decisions is one to be quickly betrayed by those beneath him.

I haven't reached my goals either, I am never satisfied, but that doesn't mean I am willing to cut the throats of others to achieve it. Life is life. I have 2 boys to raise and I want them to know what it is to be a man. If that requires me making a bit less, to prove a point to make them quality men, then so be it. Because what it all boils down to is what you leave behind. I'll be leaving quality humans, who can respect others, in this Earth with my perspective, what will you be leaving behind?

[Abba-Dabba]

I'm emotional because I have worked for way too many assholes with your perspective. I've been the one that endures, much like what the OP is mentioning, but have learned, as I have climbed up into my career that it is the one's that like to squash the "ants" with their boots, or just conform to what is expected of them, either get fired for creating a hostile work environment, or fizzle out due to being over stressed because their associates hate them.

Is there emotion involved? Yes. But a man that doesn't use some emotion and thought behind his decisions is one to be quickly betrayed by those beneath him.

I haven't reached my goals either, I am never satisfied, but that doesn't mean I am willing to cut the throats of others to achieve it. Life is life. I have 2 boys to raise and I want them to know what it is to be a man. If that requires me making a bit less, to prove a point to make them quality men, then so be it. Because what it all boils down to is what you leave behind. I'll be leaving quality humans, who can respect others, in this Earth with my perspective, what will you be leaving behind?

You don't have a clue about me for one thing.

You are wanting a meeting to fire your employee. Your boss just wants you to call him, give him the business end of the deal and not say anything else. Nothing you say is going to help the guy or earn any kind of hero boss respect you are seeking. It has even the potential to end up hurting the company you work for speaking him to more.

You need a management course or 3.

[mdchiefsfan]

You do have a clue about me for one thing.

You are wanting a meeting to fire your employee. Your boss just wants you to call him, give him the business end of the deal and not say anything else. Nothing you say is going to help the guy or earn any kind of hero boss respect you are seeking. It has even the potential to end up hurting the company you work for speaking him to more.

You need a management course or 3.

Man you are dense. Way to divert from what I said though.

[mdchiefsfan]

Now I see how far off we are in understanding. Just for clarification, as I have said before: I don't interview then fire. That is not my position. That is operation's position to decide to fire after my interview, but I feel you should look the man in the eyes and tell him he is fired. You looked him in the eyes and told him he was hired, why the discrepancy?

[Abba-Dabba]

I'm emotional because I have worked for way too many assholes with your perspective. I've been the one that endures, much like what the OP is mentioning, but have learned, as I have climbed up into my career that it is the one's that like to squash the "ants" with their boots, or just conform to what is expected of them, either get fired for creating a hostile work environment, or fizzle out due to being over stressed because their associates hate them.

Is there emotion involved? Yes. But a man that doesn't use some emotion and thought behind his decisions is one to be quickly betrayed by those beneath him.

I haven't reached my goals either, I am never satisfied, but that doesn't mean I am willing to cut the throats of others to achieve it. Life is life. I have 2 boys to raise and I want them to know what it is to be a man. If that requires me making a bit less, to prove a point to make them quality men, then so be it. Because what it all boils down to is what you leave behind. I'll be leaving quality humans, who can respect others, in this Earth with my perspective, what will you be leaving behind?

I cut throats because I believe there is nothing wrong by not wasting a persons time, afford them opportunity to deal with the intial shock of the firing privately in their own homes. Rather than calling them into a workplace surrounded by their peers to may be have an emotional moment? That makes me the asshole? That makes you the bigger man? Bullshit.

What ever you have learned about how to treat people in life's trying times is fucked up. Nobody likes that shit to happen surrounded by peers or in public of any sort. That shit can be embarrassing for the former employee.

It's you that are the tool.

[Abba-Dabba]

Now I see how far off we are in understanding. Just for clarification, as I have said before: I don't interview then fire. That is not my position. That is operation's position to decide to fire after my interview, but I feel you should look the man in the eyes and tell him he is fired. You looked him in the eyes and told him he was hired, why the discrepancy?

Why is it needed to look him in the eye? Trying to prolong the inevitable?

You don't have to look anyone in the eye to hire them.

[mdchiefsfan]

Why is it needed to look him in the eye? Trying to prolong the inevitable?

You don't have to look anyone in the eye to hire them.

Customary traditions. Respect.

[Wallcrawler]

Well. That escalated quickly.

Ive decided that Im not doing it. Im not firing him just because I was told to do it, and in a chickenshit manner the likes of calling him up and saying he's fired.

If Boss wants him gone, he can do it. He's the one with the problem. If I get doc'd for insubordination, so be it. Those forms DO go to corporate. I wont be losing my job, and a full explanation of the circumstances of my "insubordination" will be given and someone outside of the "Good ol Boy Network" will get to take a look at what's going on.

Ill provide that information when I deliver my decision, and then let the chips fall where they may.

Joe will probably still get fired, even though it's bullshit, but I wont be the one doing it.

[mdchiefsfan]

Why is it needed to look him in the eye? Trying to prolong the inevitable?

You don't have to look anyone in the eye to hire them.

Customary traditions. Respect.

[TimBone]

Well. That escalated quickly.

Ive decided that Im not doing it. Im not firing him just because I was told to do it, and in a chickenshit manner the likes of calling him up and saying he's fired.

If Boss wants him gone, he can do it. He's the one with the problem. If I get doc'd for insubordination, so be it. Those forms DO go to corporate. I wont be losing my job, and a full explanation of the circumstances of my "insubordination" will be given and someone outside of the "Good ol Boy Network" will get to take a look at what's going on.

Ill provide that information when I deliver my decision, and then let the chips fall where they may.

Joe will probably still get fired, even though it's bullshit, but I wont be the one doing it.
Good man.

[J Diddy]

Well. That escalated quickly.

Ive decided that Im not doing it. Im not firing him just because I was told to do it, and in a chickenshit manner the likes of calling him up and saying he's fired.

If Boss wants him gone, he can do it. He's the one with the problem. If I get doc'd for insubordination, so be it. Those forms DO go to corporate. I wont be losing my job, and a full explanation of the circumstances of my "insubordination" will be given and someone outside of the "Good ol Boy Network" will get to take a look at what's going on.

Ill provide that information when I deliver my decision, and then let the chips fall where they may.

Joe will probably still get fired, even though it's bullshit, but I wont be the one doing it.

Kudos. It's not easy to do the right thing.

[Earthling]

Office politics. One of multiple reasons I started my own company.

[kcgizmo]

My 2 cents
I think you are looking at this all wrong, it is not about Joe or the company it is about you. I think it’s a thing called integrity. How do you want your employees to see you? As a person that will not stand up for them, or a leader that will always do what’s right.

Your call

[Nickel D]

Joe should have had the street smarts to know that he was risking his job when he refused to comply with the selfish demands of the boss. So when you call to notify of him of termination (and you will!), you simply also inform him that the boss instructed you to do the firing and that he also insisted that it be done over the phone.

Lesson you should have learned by now: You'll always have your job by NEVER answering your phone.

[Bwana]

I got jerked around by my company about two weeks ago, got pissed off and starting looking. Within two days I had several offers and negotiated with a great new company, I start December 1st. The owner of the new company would have damn near given me his house to come to work for him. I told him what I needed to come over (which was the moon) and he gave me more than I asked for, much more. He even threw in 2 instant bonus weeks of vacation (paid) so I could take my annual trip to Belize in Feb. I got more respect from him in 5 minutes than I did from my current employer in 5 years. I will walk through fire for this guy and make him a lot of money.

I'm going into work tomorrow and putting in my two weeks notice. What I really want to do is walk in, bounce the truck keys off the owners chest and say "consider that my resignation slap dick," but as hard as it is, I'm going to take the high road and offer up my two weeks.

They will likely get butt hurt and tell me to just leave, but I'm good with that and hope that's the way things go down. I wouldn't mind the two weeks to get things done around the house and if I'm there for two weeks with nothing to lose, things could get a little western. :) It's best just to stick a fork in this one, it's done.

I've already talked to my top customers about the move in person one on one and they know why I'm hitting the road and that's all I really cared about. I will be selling to all of them with my new company in two weeks. My soon to be former company will be out in the cold holding their Johnson's trying to figure out where several million dollars worth of pending orders went. I won't lie it's going to be a great Monday.

[COchief]

I cut throats because I believe there is nothing wrong by not wasting a persons time, afford them opportunity to deal with the intial shock of the firing privately in their own homes. Rather than calling them into a workplace surrounded by their peers to may be have an emotional moment? That makes me the asshole? That makes you the bigger man? Bullshit.

What ever you have learned about how to treat people in life's trying times is ****ed up. Nobody likes that shit to happen surrounded by peers or in public of any sort. That shit can be embarrassing for the former employee.

It's you that are the tool.

It's been enjoyable watching the Human Resources clerk trying to act like a grown up business person in this thread. Enjoy your shit career choice that you chose because you're a feeble-minded nosey piece of human garbage. Seriously, whenever I encounter a male in HR I can't help but stifle the snickers and wonder why any man would choose to be surrounded by petty women. Now get to work on those reference checks Sally.

The real bottom line:

OP is risking his neck for someone that chose his own fate, the employee that is going to be fired made his choice when he talked shit to the person that can and apparently will fire him, all bullshit surrounding the issue aside. If someone is your boss and has the power to fire you, you keep your mouth shut or you keep your job. He made his choice. That simple.

[mdchiefsfan]

Kudos. It's not easy to do the right thing.

This.

[58-4ever]

Meet the guy for coffee somewhere and tell him in person. If you really believe he put in effort, tell him what he's done wrong too and give him honest feedback.

[Iowanian]

I was prepared to compose a post discussing business ethics, treating employees how you would want to be treated, firing via text/phone call being a douche/cowardly thing to do.....and that your boss is a putz. Not sure I'd want to pin my long term hopes on a comany that allows people to be treated that way........in th emean time, express to Skippy why you don't feel this is the right approach, and then do it. Let the guy know you don't agree with the method when you call, but let's face it....he already knows your boss is a douche.

That potential post was set asside because from this day forward, I will be reading 2 posters on this site in an entirely new voice.

http://media.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/titles/bad-santa/3/screenshot-med-17.jpg

CAN'T YOU SEE I'M ON MY F'ING LUNCH BREAK!!!!

[58-4ever]

You don't have to look anyone in the eye to hire them.

I do.

[Aries Walker]

Save Joe's phone number. Call him in June and offer him a job.
This is the best advice I've seen in this thread.

[58-4ever]

I got jerked around by my company about two weeks ago, got pissed off and starting looking. Within two days I had several offers and negotiated with a great new company, I start December 1st. The owner of the new company would have damn near given me his house to come to work for him. I told him what I needed to come over (which was the moon) and he gave me more than I asked for, much more. He even threw in 2 instant bonus weeks of vacation (paid) so I could take my annual trip to Belize in Feb. I got more respect from him in 5 minutes than I did from my current employer in 5 years. I will walk through fire for this guy and make him a lot of money.

I'm going into work tomorrow and putting in my two weeks notice. What I really want to do is walk in, bounce the truck keys off the owners chest and say "consider that my resignation slap dick," but as hard as it is, I'm going to take the high road and offer up my two weeks.

They will likely get butt hurt and tell me to just leave, but I'm good with that and hope that's the way things go down. I wouldn't mind the two weeks to get things done around the house and if I'm there for two weeks with nothing to lose, things could get a little western. :) It's best just to stick a fork in this one, it's done.

I've already talked to my top customers about the move in person one on one and they know why I'm hitting the road and that's all I really cared about. I will be selling to all of them with my new company in two weeks. My soon to be former company will be out in the cold holding their Johnson's trying to figure out where several million dollars worth of pending orders went. I won't lie it's going to be a great Monday.'

So they don't have a non-compete or solicitation? Congrats on the new gig!

[Wallcrawler]

Update:

Just dropped the bomb. Explained I wasn't doing it, told him it was a chickenshit thing to do and that if we were doing documentation for insubordination lets ****ing get to it because I couldn't ****ing wait.

I approached it like the nerdy schoolkid who's had enough of the school bully and KNOWS, absolutely KNOWS he has no chance to win this fight, but psyches himself up so completely for it that he just doesn't care and goes full on psycho, begging the bully to hit him.

But then he just sat there with a look on his face I can only describe as a mix between Herm Edwards in the fourth quarter looking at the scoreboard, and a guy who just had a massive deuce dropped in his freshly made bowl of cheerios.

He told me to watch the floor, because he needed a cigarette and he went outside.

We'll see what happens I guess.


Edit: And yes for those keeping score at home, I do feel like a bit of D-bag for bitching about Candy Crush on the clock and then posting on CP. while at work. Don't you judge me you fuckers!

[Bwana]

'

So they don't have a non-compete or solicitation? Congrats on the new gig!

Nope they aren't that street smart and thanks.

[Iowanian]

I think when you call him you should sing a song to make him feel better.

LET HIM GO.....LET HIM GOOOOOOOOOO.....JOE YOU CAN'T WORK HERE ANYMOOOOOOORE.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/024/0/d/let_it_go__by_jan_jane-d73khqj.gif

Being cold never bothered me, anyway.

[mdchiefsfan]

Update:

Just dropped the bomb. Explained I wasn't doing it, told him it was a chickenshit thing to do and that if we were doing documentation for insubordination lets ****ing get to it because I couldn't ****ing wait.

I approached it like the nerdy schoolkid who's had enough of the school bully and KNOWS, absolutely KNOWS he has no chance to win this fight, but psyches himself up so completely for it that he just doesn't care and goes full on psycho, begging the bully to hit him.

But then he just sat there with a look on his face I can only describe as a mix between Herm Edwards in the fourth quarter looking at the scoreboard, and a guy who just had a massive deuce dropped in his freshly made bowl of cheerios.

He told me to watch the floor, because he needed a cigarette and he went outside.

We'll see what happens I guess.


Edit: And yes for those keeping score at home, I do feel like a bit of D-bag for bitching about Candy Crush on the clock and then posting on CP. while at work. Don't you judge me you ****ers!

Felt good, didn't it?

[Wallcrawler]

So, not sure what to think on this one. Boss came back in and said that I should use some paid time off and relax. He was like "Arent the Chiefs playing this afternoon? Why don't you take off early and watch the game, and Ill hold this down until Yes Man gets here."

Said we didn't have to do this right now, and that we should just talk about things when "we both had a chance to calm down."

In any case, I don't have to fire anyone AND I get to see the game today. While being paid.

Ill take it.

[mdchiefsfan]

So, not sure what to think on this one. Boss came back in and said that I should use some paid time off and relax. He was like "Arent the Chiefs playing this afternoon? Why don't you take off early and watch the game, and Ill hold this down until Yes Man gets here."

Said we didn't have to do this right now, and that we should just talk about things when "we both had a chance to calm down."

In any case, I don't have to fire anyone AND I get to see the game today. While being paid.

Ill take it.

Probably gained some respect from him for standing your ground.

[Wallcrawler]

Probably gained some respect from him for standing your ground.

Wife said its either a very successful bluff call, or Im being set up by the Boss and Yes Man for something nasty while Im out watching the game.

Ive been there a long time, and Yes Man cant lace my shoes on his best day, so Im betting on called bluff. Id rather not think about the other.

[MikeMaslowski]

I can see the write up now. Wallcrawler yelled at me, called me a chickenshit and then said he was going to watch a football game and that I better not clock him out or he would fuck my sister.

You are screwed dude.

[mdchiefsfan]

Wife said its either a very successful bluff call, or Im being set up by the Boss and Yes Man for something nasty while Im out watching the game.

Ive been there a long time, and Yes Man cant lace my shoes on his best day, so Im betting on called bluff. Id rather not think about the other.

What do you mean by bluff call?

[mdchiefsfan]

I can see the write up now. Wallcrawler yelled at me, called me a chickenshit and then said he was going to watch a football game and that I better not clock him out or he would **** my sister.

You are screwed dude.

LMAO

[Wallcrawler]

What do you mean by bluff call?

He originally said that I was going to fire Joe because he wanted it done. I was going to do it over the phone and if I didn't, he was going to document me for insubordination and that would affect my positioning to take over the business when he leaves. He was very blunt, and matter of fact about it.

Well, I didn't do what he wanted, and then he didn't document me for insubordination like he said he would be "required to do". Im thinking he knows he wouldn't get away with just firing a dude that called him out for being lazy and was hoping that Id just do it with the threat to my future looming should I refuse.

I don't know how you go from "If you don't do this, Im documenting you for insubordination" to "lets just talk about this when we've all had a chance to calm down" when I go in there and refuse, and present myself for the documentation for insubordination. He had the perfect opportunity to document me for it and he didn't take it.

Theres a reason, and Im thinking it would be the shitstorm that would follow if he did and the information I put with it.

[Iowanian]

Beware the Ides of Yes Man Text.



Wife said its either a very successful bluff call, or Im being set up by the Boss and Yes Man for something nasty while Im out watching the game.

Ive been there a long time, and Yes Man cant lace my shoes on his best day, so Im betting on called bluff. Id rather not think about the other.

[SAUTO]

He originally said that I was going to fire Joe because he wanted it done. I was going to do it over the phone and if I didn't, he was going to document me for insubordination and that would affect my positioning to take over the business when he leaves. He was very blunt, and matter of fact about it.

Well, I didn't do what he wanted, and then he didn't document me for insubordination like he said he would be "required to do". Im thinking he knows he wouldn't get away with just firing a dude that called him out for being lazy and was hoping that Id just do it with the threat to my future looming should I refuse.

I don't know how you go from "If you don't do this, Im documenting you for insubordination" to "lets just talk about this when we've all had a chance to calm down" when I go in there and refuse, and present myself for the documentation for insubordination. He had the perfect opportunity to document me for it and he didn't take it.

Theres a reason, and Im thinking it would be the shitstorm that would follow if he did and the information I put with it.
Either that OR he's telling joe to call you and let you know you are terminated.

[Wallcrawler]

Either that OR he's telling joe to call you and let you know you are terminated.

Heh.

Wait, that's not funny.

[Simply Red]

Office politics. One of multiple reasons I started my own company.

this.

[Fairplay]

I'm Joe

[Bwana]

I'm Joe

Hi Joe, you're about to get horsed. :)

[ILChief]

What ever happened? Did you and or Joe get fired?

[Wallcrawler]

What ever happened? Did you and or Joe get fired?

Nope.

I didn't do what he asked, then said we should move forward with the documentation. He went outside, smoked a cigarette, and gave me the rest of the day off paid so I could watch the Seahawks game.

Said we would talk about the situation when we had all calmed down and that conversation has never taken place.

Business has been pretty crazy with the Black Friday prep. I would say if something happens with Joe, it wont be until after this weekend is over. In any case, if Joe is being let go, I wont be the one doing it.

[Halfcan]

Nope.

I didn't do what he asked, then said we should move forward with the documentation. He went outside, smoked a cigarette, and gave me the rest of the day off paid so I could watch the Seahawks game.

Said we would talk about the situation when we had all calmed down and that conversation has never taken place.

Business has been pretty crazy with the Black Friday prep. I would say if something happens with Joe, it wont be until after this weekend is over. In any case, if Joe is being let go, I wont be the one doing it.

That is good news. Now you don't have to have Joe being fired and ruining his holiday on your mind all week. Too many people live their life in the gray area's when they know they should do the right thing. Anytime you sacrifice your honor-it will always end bad. Glad it worked out for you. :thumb: