Chiropractors....

[penguinz]

Went for the first time ever yesterday. Lower back and sciatic pain virtually gone.

Wish I had gone sooner!


What are your thoughts on back crackers?

[BucEyedPea]

Love 'em. I go whenever I need to. Can't live without one. Plus I love the massage before hand. Plus one suspected my food allergies, got me tested and found them. Symptoms gone.

[TribalElder]

it's cool

[Fire Me Boy!]

Useful, but the minute they say I'm going to need adjustments for the next 2 years I'm out. Too many are quacks.

[KCUnited]

Use them on the reg for low back and sciatic pain.

[Bugeater]

Went to go meet with one last year for my neck issues, and he took some x-rays and wanted to put me on some aggressive 3 visit a week plan for 3 months that was going to cost me $1500 with no guarantees it wasn't going to fix the problem. Ummm...no sale.

[cosmo20002]

Love 'em. I go whenever I need to. Can't live without one. Plus I love the massage before hand. Plus one suspected my food allergies, got me tested and found them. Symptoms gone.

Always the first sign of a quality medical provider.

[penguinz]

Always the first sign of a quality medical provider.
Have you ever had a good massage?

[AustinChief]

Zero science behind them having any use other than temporary pain relief for back issues. Basically like a massage will give you.

It amazes me that it is an accepted profession given that they are only marginally more useful than witch doctors.

[penguinz]

Zero science behind them having any use other than temporary pain relief for back issues. Basically like a massage will give you.

It amazes me that it is an accepted profession given that they are only marginally more useful than witch doctors.
So you think masking pain with drugs is better?

[AustinChief]

So you think masking pain with drugs is better?

No, I think giving you a nice deep tissue massage and some sugar pills will have the exact same effect though. I have this funny thing about wanting medical practices to be backed up by science.

[displacedinMN]

been to them a lot. Allowed me to move many times.

[AustinChief]

Btw, did you know that if you go to a "straight" chiro it is likely they don't believe in germs theory or vaccinations.. I shit you not. That's the kind of "doctor" I want manipulating my spine!

[mlyonsd]

They can push a lot of things you really don't need like vitamins, etc, but if you find a good one that just does what you want they are great. I've used one for several years and there are times when a cracking is the only thing that fixes my issues.

That, and now I own my own Tens device. It's awesome.

[AustinChief]

I'll add a caveat. There are some chiros who aren't complete whack jobs. They recognize that what they do is simply physical therapy. In those cases, my issue is... why not go to a REAL physical therapist?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Go to an osteopath. They can manipulate the joints but can treat musculoskeletal injuries with more than just manipulation.

[AustinChief]

Go to an osteopath. They can manipulate the joints but can treat musculoskeletal injuries with more than just manipulation.

Beat me to it. This and this again.

[Pepe Silvia]

I came this close to being a back cracker, I can still adjust backs, but I won't dare fuck with necks.

[cosmo20002]

Have you ever had a good massage?

Yes

[BigRedChief]

I have sciatic pain. Went to the chiropractor, got some relief. I have a bone pressing on the sciatic nerve. It would make sense to get the bone off the nerve and problem solved, right? Didn't work. I didn't do the manipulation though.

Went to an acupuncturist and got way more pain relief. They are not getting that bone off the nerve. Why does it work? It does, at least for me. Go figure.

[O.city]

With my profession, I'm at a high risk for back problems so i frequently go, but I always follow it up with a session of physical therapy.

[AustinChief]

I have sciatic pain. Went to the chiropractor, got some relief. I have a bone pressing on the sciatic nerve. It would make sense to get the bone off the nerve and problem solved, right? Didn't work. I didn't do the manipulation though.

Went to an acupuncturist and got way more pain relief. They are not getting that bone off the nerve. Why does it work? It does, at least for me. Go figure.

Acupuncture (though not understood) has much more of a scientific basis for efficacy. I know a leading neurologist in austin (well honestly, I know his son) who swears by acupuncture.

[Fire Me Boy!]

My wife (who was a licensed massage therapist) always had lots of patients with sciatica who gave up on chiro's and turned to massage. Lots of success there.

[Just Passin' By]

Went for the first time ever yesterday. Lower back and sciatic pain virtually gone.

Wish I had gone sooner!


What are your thoughts on back crackers?

Since it worked, I'm happy for you. Don't worry about what others think. Enjoy being (virtually) pain free.

[SAUTO]

Yeah, fuck a chiropractor.

[AustinChief]

Since it worked, I'm happy for you. Don't worry about what others think. Enjoy being (virtually) pain free.

I'm also happy for you that it worked. Just realize the profession is full of quackery and take anything you are told with a MASSIVE grain of salt. The typical M.O. is to relieve your back pain and then start to try to sell you on the idea that they can bring about world peace if you just come in for more "adjustments."

[Fire Me Boy!]

I'm also happy for you that it worked. Just realize the profession is full of quackery and take anything you are told with a MASSIVE grain of salt. The typical M.O. is to relieve your back pain and then start to try to sell you on the idea that they can bring about world peace if you just come in for more "adjustments."

That's generally been my experience, as well.

[SAUTO]

That's generally been my experience, as well.

Me too, went twice in my life and was in more pain afterwards than when I walked through the door.

But if I had come in three times a week for six months to a year it wouldn't hurt anymore...

[Fish]

According to studies, there's no demonstrable benefit. Some risk.

Chiropractic Care: Attempting a Risk–Benefit Analysis

And what about the risks? Prospective investigations into the risks of chiropractic are scarce. The methodologically best studies show that mild, transient adverse effects such as localized pain are experienced by about 50% of all chiropractic patients. In addition to such minor events, dramatic complications have been noted with some degree of regularity. These complications typically involve upper spinal manipulation, which has been associated with cerebrovascular accidents. To date, it has not been possible to identify risk factors. As a result, essentially everyone receiving chiropractic treatment is at risk.

[...]

Conclusion

Where does all of this leave us when attempting a risk–benefit analysis? On one side we have uncertain benefits; on the other we must consider common nonserious adverse effects as well as serious complications that occur at an unknown rate. Given this situation, a tentative risk–benefit analysis cannot produce a positive result. The conclusion must therefore be that, according to the evidence to date, chiropractic spinal manipulation does not demonstrably do more good than harm. In view of the incompleteness of our current knowledge and the popularity of chiropractic, research into this complex area should be intensified.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447290/

[Just Passin' By]

I'm also happy for you that it worked. Just realize the profession is full of quackery and take anything you are told with a MASSIVE grain of salt. The typical M.O. is to relieve your back pain and then start to try to sell you on the idea that they can bring about world peace if you just come in for more "adjustments."

There are plenty of quacks in 'true, western' medicine too, and they try to sell you on all sorts of shit. It's a bit in the past now, but just looking at the western handling of ulcers should serve to shut up anyone who ever bags on any other medical approach.

[SAUTO]

There are plenty of quacks in 'true, western' medicine too, and they try to sell you on all sorts of shit.

Agreed, I dont go to them either.

[penguinz]

Just to clarify... Not saying to go to a chiro instead of medical doctor. Just as an addition to.

[Bwana]

I have gone about 10 times, worked wonders every time.

[BucEyedPea]

Btw, did you know that if you go to a "straight" chiro it is likely they don't believe in germs theory or vaccinations.. I shit you not. That's the kind of "doctor" I want manipulating my spine!

That is NOT true. Especially the germ theory but plenty are not against vaccinations.

[AustinChief]

That is NOT true. Especially the germ theory but plenty are not against vaccinations.

Yes, it is kooky lady. Look it up. "Straight" chiros follow the teachings of their whackjob founder.

[BucEyedPea]

Go to an osteopath. They can manipulate the joints but can treat musculoskeletal injuries with more than just manipulation.

I went to an osteopath once, and he cracked me better than a chiro...and he said they weren't getting it done for me. He was old and died tho.' Plus an osteo can prescribe medication if you do need it. I used an osteo for family practitioner and my child for years. Prefer over an regular MD. They're also more open minded about other treatments than the arrogant former blood-letting allopaths these days.

[BucEyedPea]

Yes, it is kooky lady. Look it up. "Straight" chiros follow the teachings of their whackjob founder.

Obviously, you haven't been to many.

[BucEyedPea]

Just to clarify... Not saying to go to a chiro instead of medical doctor. Just as an addition to.

Exactly.

[AustinChief]

Obviously, you haven't been to many.

And obviously you have no clue what you are talking about. suprise suprise!

[AustinChief]

I went to an osteopath once, and he cracked me better than a chiro...and he said they weren't getting it done for me. He was old and died tho.' Plus an osteo can prescribe medication if you do need it. I used an osteo for family practitioner and my child for years. Prefer over an regular MD. They're also more open minded about other treatments than the arrogant former blood-letting allopaths these days.

Ok, I'll give credit where credit is due. Nice post. Osteopaths don't get enough credit.

[BucEyedPea]

Acupuncture (though not understood) has much more of a scientific basis for efficacy. I know a leading neurologist in austin (well honestly, I know his son) who swears by acupuncture.

One chiro I used to use, thinks well of acupuncture. She uses accupressure in her treatments too. Only her manipulations suck. She does that gentle chiro technique which is nice for some things but not enough for me.

[BucEyedPea]

Have you ever had a good massage?

It helps the adjustment and tight muscles can pull bone out of position too.

I get them even when I don't go to the chiro because it's so good for you and not just in a physical way. It de-stresses. Bob Hope had one daily I heard. He lived a long life.

[BucEyedPea]

Ok, I'll give credit where credit is due. Nice post. Osteopaths don't get enough credit.

I love osteopaths.

[BucEyedPea]

Useful, but the minute they say I'm going to need adjustments for the next 2 years I'm out. Too many are quacks.

We're so used to a quick fix with a prescription or a pill. Some things take longer to handle naturally. However, chiro can and have taken a program too far and too long. Medical coders complain about that. I went for 6 months after an accident. That's long enough. One guy here, though, had me going for a year 2-3 a week. It was annoying and too interrupting of my time and was not necessary. I just finally stopped.

I get this thing, since my 30's, if I crawl under a table very low to get something and or bend too low, like a freak thing, I become jello and can't walk. Have to be carried to the car to go it's so painful. It's amazing what just gentle blocking does for it. Only need to go once or twice and I'm fine. But this guy suckered me into a year. So I know what you're saying.

[rockymtnchief]

I'm also happy for you that it worked. Just realize the profession is full of quackery and take anything you are told with a MASSIVE grain of salt. The typical M.O. is to relieve your back pain and then start to try to sell you on the idea that they can bring about world peace if you just come in for more "adjustments."

I've never had a chiro pull that with me.

I get pinched nerves in my lower back about once a year. Every time, they have me back to 100% in no time at all. I love all the ones I've used over the years.

[Don Corlemahomes]

I'm MD trained. I have encountered a lot of DO's, and they are great doctors. The reason I didn't do DO was because test scores tend to be a bit lower at those schools (see below), and I was afraid it wouldn't prepare me as well as an MD school.

Some authors note the differences in average GPA and MCAT scores of those who matriculate at D.O. schools versus those who matriculate at M.D. schools within the United States. In 2012, the average MCAT and GPA for students entering U.S.-based M.D. programs were 31.2 and 3.68,[45] respectively, and 26.85 and 3.51 for D.O. matriculants

As for chiros: If you understand the risks and you get relief, go for it. I'm wary of them doing allergy testing, though. I've heard they do IgG testing instead of IgE, which drives allergists up a wall because it is fundamentally flawed.

[HonestChieffan]

Shamans and witch doctors are also options. Or herbalists. All great

[BucEyedPea]

It's not quackery, that comes from their competition the medical profession and they were sued and lost for that kind of defamation. It's just a whole different view of health and the body and that it heals itself. That's all it is. Sure, they can make you come too long—SOME of them. Other than that, it's just a different kind of care which has a place.

Some medical doctors sell you unnecessary surgery where a chiro can save you a LOT of money. It just depends on each situation. Chiros are cheaper than medical generally speaking.

[BucEyedPea]

Shamans and witch doctors are also options. Or herbalists. All great

You are such a close-minded bigot.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I go every other week or so. Makes my ****ty back feel much better.

[penguinz]

Ok, I'll give credit where credit is due. Nice post. Osteopaths don't get enough credit.

I only got to DO's. In my experience MD's are to closed minded.

[SAUTO]

It's not quackery, that comes from their competition the medical profession and they were sued and lost for that kind of defamation. It's just a whole different view of health and the body and that it heals itself. That's all it is. Sure, they can make you come too long—SOME of them. Other than that, it's just a different kind of care which has a place.

Some medical doctors sell you unnecessary surgery where a chiro can save you a LOT of money. It just depends on each situation. Chiros are cheaper than medical generally speaking.

How do you sue the medical profession?

[BucEyedPea]

I'm MD trained. I have encountered a lot of DO's, and they are great doctors. The reason I didn't do DO was because test scores tend to be a bit lower at those schools (see below), and I was afraid it wouldn't prepare me as well as an MD school.



As for chiros: If you understand the risks and you get relief, go for it.

What are the risks? There's risks with any surgery too.

I'm wary of them doing allergy testing, though. I've heard they do IgG testing instead of IgE, which drives allergists up a wall because it is fundamentally flawed.

What if it gets results? Isn't that what matters? I don't know what those things are but mine was done using blood work and mine also got my blood work from an osteo who did not suspect allergies but saw no pathology either. He didn't know what was wrong. She looked at the same test differently and ordered more blood work where foods get dipped into your blood to determine reaction and the amount of reaction. It handled all my symptoms and I was back to battery.

[BucEyedPea]

How do you sue the medical profession?

I'd have to look it up but I think it was the AMA that got sued.

[Don Corlemahomes]

Their blood testing is IgG. This is a pretty simple way of describing it:

So where does immunoglobulin G (IgG) come in? IgG molecules mediate interactions of cells with different cellular and humoral mechanisms. IgG antibodies signify exposure to products—not allergy. IgG may actually be a marker for food tolerance, not intolerance, some research suggests:

Children with eczema and egg or milk allergies with higher levels of IgG to milk/egg were more likely to be tolerant of these foods at a later age.
Resolution of cow’s milk allergy is associated with increasing IgG
A study found increasing IgG in patients who underwent oral immunotherapy for milk or peanut allergy
That research is continuing. But given the lack of correlation between the presence of IgG and physical manifestations of illness, IgG testing is considered unproven as a diagnostic agent as the results lack clinical utility as a tool for dietary modification or food elimination.

[BucEyedPea]

Apparently mine was IgG with more.

http://www.integrativepractitioner.com/marketplacedetail.aspx?id=410

It worked.

[Don Corlemahomes]

Apparently mine was IgG with more.

http://www.integrativepractitioner.com/marketplacedetail.aspx?id=410

It worked.

I'm glad you got relief. I'm just trying to present the science, not question the validity of your story. If it worked, it worked.

[blake5676]

How do you sue the medical profession?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilk_v._American_Medical_Association

[BucEyedPea]

I'm glad you got relief. I'm just trying to present the science, not question the validity of your story. If it worked, it worked.

Just saying, there had to be some science behind it if it worked. Her wall was covered with testimonials by others too, including some treated by allopathic physicians. In fact my gyn goes to her for some things.

[Don Corlemahomes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilk_v._American_Medical_Association

77 Percent Of Doctors Say AMA Does Not Represent Their Views

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/09/07/313211/77-percent-of-doctors-say-ama-does-not-represent-their-views/

[Don Corlemahomes]

Just saying, there had to be some science behind it if it worked. Her wall was covered with testimonials by others too, including some treated by allopathic physicians. In fact my gyn goes to her for some things.

She knows something that MD allergists and those with a PhD in Immunology don't about immunoglobulins, I guess :shrug:.

[blake5676]

Zero science behind them having any use other than temporary pain relief for back issues. Basically like a massage will give you.

It amazes me that it is an accepted profession given that they are only marginally more useful than witch doctors.

If this were remotely true, how would you explain the fact it's a covered benefit in 95% of insurance plans in existence? You think insurance companies cover it because patient's like it and it feels good?

Also, what do you think should be the first method of treatment or portal for someone suffering from back pain? After all, it's the most common health complaint that any person will suffer from in their lifetime. You believe they should go to their PCP, who know's very little about biomechanics of the spine and/or soft tissue treatment, and get the standard "pain pill and muscle relaxer" prescription?

[kevonm]

I'm MD trained. I have encountered a lot of DO's, and they are great doctors. The reason I didn't do DO was because test scores tend to be a bit lower at those schools (see below), and I was afraid it wouldn't prepare me as well as an MD school.



As for chiros: If you understand the risks and you get relief, go for it. I'm wary of them doing allergy testing, though. I've heard they do IgG testing instead of IgE, which drives allergists up a wall because it is fundamentally flawed.

Feel free to correlate MCAT with licensing exams other than step 1

[Don Corlemahomes]

If this were remotely true, how would you explain the fact it's a covered benefit in 95% of insurance plans in existence? You think insurance companies cover it because patient's like it and it feels good?

Also, what do you think should be the first method of treatment or portal for someone suffering from back pain? After all, it's the most common health complaint that any person will suffer from in their lifetime. You believe they should go to their PCP, who know's very little about biomechanics of the spine and/or soft tissue treatment, and get the standard "pain pill and muscle relaxer" prescription?

+ Physical Therapy, as Austin said

[blake5676]

77 Percent Of Doctors Say AMA Does Not Represent Their Views

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/09/07/313211/77-percent-of-doctors-say-ama-does-not-represent-their-views/

Fair enough. However, the article is from 2011 and states most disagreement with the AMA is from failure to lobby for preventing payment cuts for their profession or to get better tort reform.

The above lawsuit, which I linked bc someone asked, was from 40 years ago when the AMA was found guilty of conspiring to "contain and eliminate" the chiropractic profession.

[Don Corlemahomes]

Feel free to correlate MCAT with licensing exams other than step 1

No use. I don't think MD's make better clinicians than DO's, as I think its up to the individual on how they choose to practice medicine. I thought that going in, but if I had to do it again, I would be happy going either route.

[blake5676]

+ Physical Therapy, as Austin said

What is a physical therapist trained to do that a chiropractor is not? Most chiropractors I know have EMS, ultrasound, traction, and rehab areas in their offices as well. And vice versa as well. In my opinion, they are both musculoskeletal specialists.

[Don Corlemahomes]

Fair enough. However, the article is from 2011 and states most disagreement with the AMA is from failure to lobby for preventing payment cuts for their profession or to get better tort reform.

The above lawsuit, which I linked bc someone asked, was from 40 years ago when the AMA was found guilty of conspiring to "contain and eliminate" the chiropractic profession.

Ah, interesting. The AMA is corrupt as hell, man. I can assure you they do not represent us as a whole.

At that time, I don't really know, but I would guess many of those docs guilty of this aren't practicing anymore.

[Don Corlemahomes]

What is a physical therapist trained to do that a chiropractor is not? Most chiropractors I know have EMS, ultrasound, traction, and rehab areas in their offices as well. And vice versa as well. In my opinion, they are both musculoskeletal specialists.

I was pointing out that PCPs do more than pain med+muscle relaxer.

Here's the thing: I don't really care one way or the other. Full disclosure, I'm a surgeon who works on completely different disease processes. If you go to a chiro and they provide you with a service that you find comforting, great.

[HonestChieffan]

Crystals, linaments, salves plus phrenology all work especially if you use an herbalist and aroma therapy at the same time.

The medicine shows and tent healers of the 1800s are still among us with the following of faith healers and mystics.

[blake5676]

Ah, interesting. The AMA is corrupt as hell, man. I can assure you they do not represent us as a whole.

At that time, I don't really know, but I would guess many of those docs guilty of this aren't practicing anymore.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that all medical doctors follow the mantra of the AMA. And as I said, that lawsuit was over 40 years old...but at the time the AMA published and taught that "chiropractic kills" and made a vested and real effort to eliminate the profession as a whole. Healthcare in general is so far removed from actual providers. It's all political bullshit and government redtape.

[Don Corlemahomes]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that all medical doctors follow the mantra of the AMA. And as I said, that lawsuit was over 40 years old...but at the time the AMA published and taught that "chiropractic kills" and made a vested and real effort to eliminate the profession as a whole. Healthcare in general is so far removed from actual providers. It's all political bullshit and government redtape.

Very, very true.

[BigRedChief]

Ok, I'll give credit where credit is due. Nice post. Osteopaths don't get enough credit.I worked in a level 1 inner city trauma center D.O. hospital for 5 years. Some were brilliant. Some were dumbshits.

[BucEyedPea]

Crystals, linaments, salves plus phrenology all work especially if you use an herbalist and aroma therapy at the same time.

The medicine shows and tent healers of the 1800s are still among us with the following of faith healers and mystics.

Despite no one here mentioning the use of crystals, phrenology, mysticism, faith healing or aromatherapy here.

[BucEyedPea]

If this were remotely true, how would you explain the fact it's a covered benefit in 95% of insurance plans in existence? You think insurance companies cover it because patient's like it and it feels good?
Yup it's covered in my plan.

Also, what do you think should be the first method of treatment or portal for someone suffering from back pain? After all, it's the most common health complaint that any person will suffer from in their lifetime. You believe they should go to their PCP, who know's very little about biomechanics of the spine and/or soft tissue treatment, and get the standard "pain pill and muscle relaxer" prescription?
Or unnecessary surgery. Chiros have saved many from that invasive practice and huge expense—far more expensive than surgery.

[BucEyedPea]

What is a physical therapist trained to do that a chiropractor is not? Most chiropractors I know have EMS, ultrasound, traction, and rehab areas in their offices as well. And vice versa as well. In my opinion, they are both musculoskeletal specialists.

Interesting. I found PT exercises to rehab a knee injury from working out, post-surgery to help strenghten my knee again. Chiro couldn't do that for me.

Physical therapists aren't cheap either.

[Buehler445]

I've been to two good chiropractors and one bad one. And I've had a pile of doctors tell me they are quacks.

The two good ones were good. They helped with back pain, but also with injury recovery. There might have been better options, but none that are out here. I've tried living with back pain thinking it will heal. Sometimes it won't until you can get shit loosened up. I've also had ankle injuries that refused to heal until they got realigned.

The two that were good were also sports medicine guys, so it's not like they were completely quacked out.

In my experience they can help structurally, but if they want to try to sell you on fixing asthma or blood pressure or other physiological ailments that are unrelated to bones and soft tissue injuries, wave that bullshit flag.

[otherstar]

I'm late coming to this thread, but I work as a librarian and ethics instructor at a Chiropractic College in the Houston area. Chiropractic does work, but you need to look carefully for the RIGHT kind of chiropractor. The college where I work teaches EBM (evidence based medicine) and RBP (results based practice). As a matter of fact, the senior-most professor where I work as published several articles saying that there is no scientific evidence that the subluxation complex exists (which is the foundation of straight chiropractic philosophy). There are several DOs and MDs on the staff and not one "straight" chiropractor (if you come across someone who graduated from Life West...run like hell the other way). Good EBM based chiropractic is closer to osteopathy (many of the adjustment techniques are the same), with the exception that DCs cannot prescribe medicines.

It's a case of doing your homework before you visit any medical provider. I had one DO that only wanted to prescribe pills and give shots...he was worse than an MD in that regard. My current MD works in a joint practice with a DO and a Chiro and she's doing a great job of helping me manage my diabetes. I used to have chronic shoulder and hand pain that was the direct result of several separated shoulders I suffered when I wrestled and played football in high school. After treatment from an attending assisted by student interns (those who are in the last portion of their program), I hardly have any problems any more.

Just my two cents.

[BucEyedPea]

In my experience they can help structurally, but if they want to try to sell you on fixing asthma or blood pressure or other physiological ailments that are unrelated to bones and soft tissue injuries, wave that bullshit flag.

More than a few of them have other specialties like nutrition. That is a valid treatment from some of those conditions like blood pressure. Do you not think that many blood pressure issues can be helped by diet? My extremely low blood pressure was raised to normal levels and has remained that way for ten years.

A few are specialists in allergies ( one I used to go to ) and some sports issues.

[otherstar]

More than a few of them have other specialties like nutrition. That is a valid treatment from some of those conditions like blood pressure. Do you not think that many blood pressure issues can be helped by diet? My extremely low blood pressure was raised to normal levels and has remained that way for ten years.

A few are specialists in allergies ( one I used to go to ) and some sports issues.

Yes, and nutritional therapy is usually evidence based. There is plenty of genuine scientific evidence supporting the claim that diet affects our health. A "straight" chiropractor might tell you something like "chiropractic adjustments can cure AIDS." (I've actually heard this from a "straight" chiropractor) There is no scientific evidence upon which to base that claim...it's quackery. The difference between evidence-based medicine, and non-evidence based medicine is genuine scientific research.

[penguinz]

Yes, and nutritional therapy is usually evidence based. There is plenty of genuine scientific evidence supporting the claim that diet affects our health. A "straight" chiropractor might tell you something like "chiropractic adjustments can cure AIDS." (I've actually heard this from a "straight" chiropractor) There is no scientific evidence upon which to base that claim...it's quackery. The difference between evidence-based medicine, and non-evidence based medicine is genuine scientific research.
Did you ask a gay chiropractor his opinion?

[Why Not?]

My wife swears by her chiro. I just kind of avoid doctors or whatever if at all possible. To many shady folks and the health care system is to fucked up. However, I had surgery a couple of years ago and the surgeons were awesome. So there's that.

[Jimmya]

Don't have much faith in Chiropractors (witch doctors) here!

[Buehler445]

More than a few of them have other specialties like nutrition. That is a valid treatment from some of those conditions like blood pressure. Do you not think that many blood pressure issues can be helped by diet? My extremely low blood pressure was raised to normal levels and has remained that way for ten years.

A few are specialists in allergies ( one I used to go to ) and some sports issues.

I never said blood pressure couldn't be controlled by diet.

I merely said IN MY EXPERIENCE they can help structurally

I haven't ever had an adjustment that had any physiological effects other than structural healing. All those supplements and shit, I haven't had work.

[BucEyedPea]

Yes, and nutritional therapy is usually evidence based. There is plenty of genuine scientific evidence supporting the claim that diet affects our health. A "straight" chiropractor might tell you something like "chiropractic adjustments can cure AIDS." (I've actually heard this from a "straight" chiropractor) There is no scientific evidence upon which to base that claim...it's quackery. The difference between evidence-based medicine, and non-evidence based medicine is genuine scientific research.

I've never met a chiropractor who said adjustments cure anything like that. I have heard them say that subluxations interfere with communication to areas of the body. Every chiropractor I know believes in a medical doctor for certain things. In fact, the one who is an allergy specialist, has a father who is a medical doctor. Tho' they tease one another all the time about their professions.

Ya' know when I stopped nursing my daughter, she got her one and only ear infection. I didn't want those frikken tubes and such medical doctors use. I didn't want to start on a round of antibiotics and wind up overusing them. I went to a doctor first before using the prescription. One adjustment helped heralong some other drops or something I can't remember what it was and it was gone pretty fast. I haven't a clue why it worked but it did. She never had a re occurring ear infection afterwards either. I never had to take her back for routine adjustments either.

I just went to google why chiros say this works and I found this:

During the birthing process, cervical (neck) vertebrae can become misaligned, disrupting nerve function, which can affect the the eustachian tube. This may lead to fluid buildup in the middle ear and cause otitis media.

It goes on to cite a promising study published in the Journal of Clinical Chiropractic Pediatrics on ear infections.

http://www.healthychild.com/chiropractic-for-chronic-ear-infections/

Another time, she had a rash that wouldn't go away and a doctor diagnosed it as impetigo. What they gave me didn't get rid of it. I got some cream from the chiro and that worked but the chiro said it was not impetigo too. Go figure.

[BucEyedPea]

I never said blood pressure couldn't be controlled by diet.

I merely said IN MY EXPERIENCE they can help structurally

I haven't ever had an adjustment that had any physiological effects other than structural healing. All those supplements and shit, I haven't had work.
Ok. Ok. You just mentioned blood pressure was why I asked that. No need to yell. Chiros usually know more about nutrition than medical doctors is why I said that. Medical doctors know some things but their training is not as extensive in that area.

Now, did they muscle test you on those supplements? I was told some people don't do well with certain brands and some don't absorb them to help. Yeah, I know muscle testing is supposed to be mumbo jumbo. I definitely think certain brands, dosage and absorption are a factor in supplementation for people. We're all individual like that.

[booger]

Anyone try inversion or those teeter hang ups? Spinal decompression I guess you could call it. Thought of trying it with my sciatic nerve and bulging disc problems

[kchero]

Btw, did you know that if you go to a "straight" chiro it is likely they don't believe in germs theory or vaccinations.. I shit you not. That's the kind of "doctor" I want manipulating my spine!

Haha so this! I had one explain to me how chiropratic cured spanish flu in the early 1900's. After his preaching, he asked me what I did for a living. I informed him that I have my doctorate in pharmacy and his mouth dropped and he quickly changed the subject.

[ghak99]

I've never been to one, but my neck is pretty messed up right now and I'm getting close to giving one a shot.

If I go, I will definitely be warning him of my "If you put me in a wheelchair, I will have no choice but to do the same in return" policy.

[ptlyon]

Several years ago I was having lunch with two friends, one is a chiropractor.

He had ordered the special of the day which was a build your own sandwich from a buffet type of thing. My friend and I ordered something else off the menu.

When the chiropractor got up to get his meal my other friend asked him to get some turkey off of the buffet. He said he would.

I then said to the chiropractor, 'You can't do that! Don't you have morals? Oh wait, nevermind, you're a chiropractor.'

To which he responded, 'What the hell does that mean?!?'

God me and my other buddy just laughed...

[BucEyedPea]

Anyone try inversion or those teeter hang ups? Spinal decompression I guess you could call it. Thought of trying it with my sciatic nerve and bulging disc problems

I had a friend who stayed with us for a few months bring one when he moved down here. Scarey as hell for me, being fully upside down. I didn't like it. Now, I see them in a horizontal version in those airline catalogues.

Also, in there are these arched stretchers for your back, my massage therapist told me about. IIRC, they're called Bridges and they have 3 different kinds for parts of your back: cervical, thoracic and lumbar regions that stretch out those areas and open the spine. I was thinking of getting those but can't seem to find them online again. They weren't cheap.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Inversion tables don't work.

You are best off stretching, doing ROM exercises, and going to an osteopath should you have something out of place.

[blake5676]

Haha so this! I had one explain to me how chiropratic cured spanish flu in the early 1900's. After his preaching, he asked me what I did for a living. I informed him that I have my doctorate in pharmacy and his mouth dropped and he quickly changed the subject.

This irritates me to no end. And honestly, I'm not a fan of most chiropractors. That's a little strange seeing that I am one :) But there isn't a week that goes by that I don't hear something to that effect in my office and it's just maddening. Here's the deal though....just talk to one and ask questions and you should have a good idea of whether they're the real deal or just a salesman that believes in magic voodoo.

Here is what the chiropractor is good for: Neuromusculoskeletal complaints. They shouldn't replace your PCP. They shouldn't try to be your OBGYN. Nor should they give you advice or treatment in place of an oncologist.

Some chiro's want to sell you on a treatment plan before you've even started care. They tell you they're going to need to see you 3x/week for the first month and then 2x/week for the next and then they'll do a progress exam. Here's the problem with that......most conditions DO NOT require 25 visits for results. Sure, some people have chronic complaints and degeneration and daily activities that complicate getting better. But I tell new patient's from the beginning that we will take their care on a visit by visit basis. And as a patient, if you're not feeling improvement after the first 3-4 visits or over the first 2 or so weeks of care, then maybe we need to refer out for some additional imaging other than just x-rays, or see a pain specialist, etc. And you know what? Sometimes that happens. The majority of pt's I see in my office have good results, but chiropractic isn't the cure for everything.

I also don't sell ANYTHING. For me, I believe it clouds the line of what I feel like I'm good at and what I could do to suck some extra $$ out of patients. More power to the offices that sell supplements, pillows, allergy testing, ionized water and whatever the hell the latest trendy homeopathic remedy there is. Not interested. I know muscles, I know bones, and I know biomechanics. Outside of that, I'm not your guy. To the patients that are interested in losing weight, here's the number for a good nutritionist. And so on and so forth.

Just go with your gut. If you see someone who wants $1500 prepayment before you've even started care, go somewhere else. If you're seeing one and not getting results after 4-5 visits, try something else. There's good chiro's and bad ones. Just as there's good dentists and shitty ones, or PCP's that listen and ones that just write scrips all day.

[BucEyedPea]

Inversion tables don't work.

You are best off stretching, doing ROM exercises, and going to an osteopath should you have something out of place.

It depends on what you use it for. If you need something put back in place no. But for just decompressiing your spine it's fine. I know some people swear by it.

[BucEyedPea]

Oh yeah, and stretching is something we all need to do in general.

[kchero]

This irritates me to no end. And honestly, I'm not a fan of most chiropractors. That's a little strange seeing that I am one :) But there isn't a week that goes by that I don't hear something to that effect in my office and it's just maddening. Here's the deal though....just talk to one and ask questions and you should have a good idea of whether they're the real deal or just a salesman that believes in magic voodoo.

Here is what the chiropractor is good for: Neuromusculoskeletal complaints. They shouldn't replace your PCP. They shouldn't try to be your OBGYN. Nor should they give you advice or treatment in place of an oncologist.

Some chiro's want to sell you on a treatment plan before you've even started care. They tell you they're going to need to see you 3x/week for the first month and then 2x/week for the next and then they'll do a progress exam. Here's the problem with that......most conditions DO NOT require 25 visits for results. Sure, some people have chronic complaints and degeneration and daily activities that complicate getting better. But I tell new patient's from the beginning that we will take their care on a visit by visit basis. And as a patient, if you're not feeling improvement after the first 3-4 visits or over the first 2 or so weeks of care, then maybe we need to refer out for some additional imaging other than just x-rays, or see a pain specialist, etc. And you know what? Sometimes that happens. The majority of pt's I see in my office have good results, but chiropractic isn't the cure for everything.

I also don't sell ANYTHING. For me, I believe it clouds the line of what I feel like I'm good at and what I could do to suck some extra $$ out of patients. More power to the offices that sell supplements, pillows, allergy testing, ionized water and whatever the hell the latest trendy homeopathic remedy there is. Not interested. I know muscles, I know bones, and I know biomechanics. Outside of that, I'm not your guy. To the patients that are interested in losing weight, here's the number for a good nutritionist. And so on and so forth.

Just go with your gut. If you see someone who wants $1500 prepayment before you've even started care, go somewhere else. If you're seeing one and not getting results after 4-5 visits, try something else. There's good chiro's and bad ones. Just as there's good dentists and shitty ones, or PCP's that listen and ones that just write scrips all day.

Good post! I have a good friend who I went to pharmacy school with (he used to be a chiropractor...long story) and he sounds like you. Infact, I called him up and filled him in on that story and he asked me if that guy had snake oil he was selling too. Its just like anything in medicine, everyone has their part to make the whole thing run. It seems once a year I need a chiropractor and it does help..big time.

[Mav]

Zero science behind them having any use other than temporary pain relief for back issues. Basically like a massage will give you.

It amazes me that it is an accepted profession given that they are only marginally more useful than witch doctors.
Completely disagree. It's just a reset.